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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Early voting and a split field mean Sanders should be clear odds-on for the Dem nomination

Inevitably, all eyes on the race for the Democrat nomination are trained today on Nevada, which today becomes the third state to vote in the contest. Except it doesn’t.

Read the full story here

edmundintokyo

If you ever ordered something off Amazon and regretted it later take comfort in the fact that Bloomberg is going to spend like half a billion dollars handing the nomination over to Bernie Sanders.

CarlottaVance

Second, like Sanders in the GE.

Sandpit

Third rate, like caucuses.

williamglenn

On topic, Jeb Bush's communications director agrees with David - https://thebulwark.com/the-5-lessons-from-2016-democrats-need-to-understand-if-they-want-to-stop-bernie/

"Barring a drastic change in the race, Bernie Sanders is going to be the presumptive Democratic nominee 11 days from now."

MarqueeMark

For those still bolt upright in bed at SeanT's Private Fraser act....

Digging into the wider picture of COVID-19, from the John Hopkins dashboard:

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

For all cases outside mainland China:

No cases yet in south America or central America

Africa - I case in Egypt (recovered); no other cases in the continent

Other countries: no fatalities

Finland - 1 case (recovered)

Nepal- 1 case (recovered)

Sri Lanka - 1 case (recovered)

Cambodia - 1 case (recovered)

Belgium - 1 case (recovered)

Spain - 2 cases (both recovered)

Russia - 2 cases (both recovered)

India - 3 cases (all recovered)

UK - 9 cases (8 recovered, no deaths)

Macau - 10 cases (6 recovered, no deaths)

Germany - 16 cases (14 recovered to date, no deaths)

Vietnam - 16 cases (14 recovered to date, no deaths)

Australia - 19 cases (11 recovered, no deaths)

Malaysia - 22 cases (15 recovered, no deaths)

US - 35 cases (5 recovered, no deaths)

Thailand - 35 cases (17 recovered, no deaths)

Singapore - 68 cases (37 recovered, no deaths)


But then.....

Israel - 1 case (no further news)

Lebanon - 1 case (no further news)

Philippines - 3 cases (1 recovered, 1 death)

Canada - 9 cases (3 recovered, no deaths)

UAE - 9 cases (4 recovered, no deaths)

France - 12 cases (4 recovered, 1 death)

Iran - 16 cases (none yet recovered, 4 deaths)

Italy - 20 cases (0 recovered, 1 death)

Taiwan - 26 cases (2 recovered, 1 death)

Hong Kong - 68 cases (6 recovered, 2 deaths)

Japan - 105 cases (22 recovered, 1 death)

South Korea - 204 cases (16 recovered, 2 deaths)

The story is mostly that it is well contained, has high recovery levels where found and very few fatalities. However, Japan and South Korea (and to an extent Iran, Hong Kong and Italy) are a concern.

DecrepiterJohnL

Last night I reported £20,000 available at even money (ie 2) on Betfair against Bernie Sanders as nominee. There is now about £5,000 left, though the price has drifted slightly to 2.02. That is generous *if* DH's header is right that it should be 1/2 (50% vs 33%). Betfair settles on the candidate nominated at the DNC in mid-July.

DecrepiterJohnL

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Last night I reported £20,000 available at even money (ie 2) on Betfair against Bernie Sanders as nominee. There is now about £5,000 left, though the price has drifted slightly to 2.02. That is generous *if* DH's header is right that it should be 1/2 (50% vs 33%). Betfair settles on the candidate nominated at the DNC in mid-July.

ETA now £56,000 at Evens. Someone cashing out or who thinks they know something?

ydoethur

One of the world’s oldest and most successful political parties, reduced to this. It’s painful to watch.

Incidentally, in among SeanT going off on one (I was amused to see a man who swears Cummings is intelligent accuses others of being deluded) there was a discussion about the most successful electoral record of any Prime Minister or party leader. Couple of additions;

1) After the Labour leadership was established in 1922 (previously, MPs took it in turns to act as chairman for a year) three permanent Labour leaders have never lost an election - Lansbury, Smith and Blair. The first two had an unfair advantage in that they never fought one.

2) Since 1867, of all leaders who have fought three or more elections, only two - Thatcher and Blair - have never lost an election. On average, Blair won more seats and Thatcher more of the popular vote. Even we change that number to two general elections, that only adds David Cameron to the list of undefeated party leaders, although Neville Chamberlain never fought an election.

3) The most consecutive election wins by one party leader is Edward Smith-Stanley, 14th Earl of Derby, who was leader of the largest single caucus the Protectionists (parties not being a thing in the way Wikipedia understands them, so don’t quote their wildly inaccurate articles on the subject over this) in 1847, 1852, 1857, 1859 and 1865. However, due to the dynamics of the House of Commons, he never actually commanded a majority. By contrast, the Whig party, backed by the Peelites, the Irish, the Radicals and the Socialists, always did command a majority when they could agree on a leader. Later, most of this group became known as the ‘Liberal’ Party, and from 1867 was formally merged into one party under a name adopted by the Whigs and Peelites when they merged in 1859.

edmundintokyo

MarqueeMark said:

The story is mostly that it is well contained, has high recovery levels where found and very few fatalities. However, Japan and South Korea (and to an extent Iran, Hong Kong and Italy) are a concern.

Unfortunately being *mostly* well contained is only so much help, because it spreads from places where it isn't well contained to places where it is, at which point it stops being well contained in those places as well.

TGOHF666

The Yanks seems to be voting Bernie for a lifetime achievement award - he’s going to get roasted in the Presidential race.

For being a Commie.

ydoethur

At this moment, over half of all our electricity is being produced by wind or hydro - to be exact, 50.48%.

I suppose that’s one minor benefit of weather like this.

https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

MarqueeMark

edmundintokyo said:

MarqueeMark said:

The story is mostly that it is well contained, has high recovery levels where found and very few fatalities. However, Japan and South Korea (and to an extent Iran, Hong Kong and Italy) are a concern.

Unfortunately being *mostly* well contained is only so much help, because it spreads from places where it isn't well contained to places where it is, at which point it stops being well contained in those places as well.

But the containment story to date IS encouraging. The risk countries at the moment appear to be South Korea and Japan, two countries where you would have a higher degree of confidence in containment than say if it were running riot in Indonesia and Bangladesh.

Sandpit

Somewhat astonishingly, Betfair’s Dem Nom market still has TEN candidates with lay prices.

The back prices for those ten candidates add up to 92.7%, so the market reckons there’s a 7.3% chance that the person nominated isn’t one of their FIFTY named runners.

https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28009878/multi-market?marketIds=1.128161111

A free money market, surely one of those top ten has to win it?

ydoethur

MarqueeMark said:

edmundintokyo said:

MarqueeMark said:

The story is mostly that it is well contained, has high recovery levels where found and very few fatalities. However, Japan and South Korea (and to an extent Iran, Hong Kong and Italy) are a concern.

Unfortunately being *mostly* well contained is only so much help, because it spreads from places where it isn't well contained to places where it is, at which point it stops being well contained in those places as well.

But the containment story to date IS encouraging. The risk countries at the moment appear to be South Korea and Japan, two countries where you would have a higher degree of confidence in containment than say if it were running riot in Indonesia and Bangladesh.

Although that must be pretty poor comfort to Edmund in Tokyo...

edmundintokyo

MarqueeMark said:

edmundintokyo said:

MarqueeMark said:

The story is mostly that it is well contained, has high recovery levels where found and very few fatalities. However, Japan and South Korea (and to an extent Iran, Hong Kong and Italy) are a concern.

Unfortunately being *mostly* well contained is only so much help, because it spreads from places where it isn't well contained to places where it is, at which point it stops being well contained in those places as well.

But the containment story to date IS encouraging. The risk countries at the moment appear to be South Korea and Japan, two countries where you would have a higher degree of confidence in containment than say if it were running riot in Indonesia and Bangladesh.

I wouldn't be very confident of the chances of the Japanese authorities managing to contain it at this point. It's popping up all over the place, and increasingly they don't know where the people who got it got it, so there's not much hope of containing whoever it was.

Also if we're only seeing it detected in countries with good medical systems, it may be because the countries with shitty medical systems aren't detecting it, rather than because there's nothing there to detect.

Gadfly

ydoethur said:

At this moment, over half of all our electricity is being produced by wind or hydro - to be exact, 50.48%.

I suppose that’s one minor benefit of weather like this.

https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

Unfortunately, electricity only accounts for around 15% of the UK's total energy consumption.

Morris_Dancer

Good morning, everyone.

A storm a weekend is irksome.

edmundintokyo

ydoethur said:

Although that must be pretty poor comfort to Edmund in Tokyo...

Actually my handle is out-of-date - I'm out in a picturesque pottery town called Mashiko.

But Marquee Mark has a lot more confidence in our government than I do. There's just no sign that they can stop it spreading. This is typical of the response:

The woman first showed symptoms on Feb 12 and was hospitalised on Feb 19, according to media. She went to work while she had symptoms, so the local government will close her school for two days from Feb 25.

https://japantoday.com/category/national/japan-confirms-four-more-virus-cases-to-close-a-school-for-two-days

So she's been spreading the virus around her school all week - and maybe the week before as well - and they're going to close it for two days. Then on Wednesday the kids are all coming back to school again, just in time for them to infect each other...

I mean, for all I know this may be the best they can do and other stuff may be counterproductive, but I don't see any reason to believe they'll be able to stop it spreading. Just possibly slow it down until the weather changes, I guess...

ydoethur

Gadfly said:

ydoethur said:

At this moment, over half of all our electricity is being produced by wind or hydro - to be exact, 50.48%.

I suppose that’s one minor benefit of weather like this.

https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

Unfortunately, electricity only accounts for around 15% of the UK's total energy consumption.

At this moment, it probably accounts for a bit more as there won’t be people out driving. But yes, gas consumption for heating will be high.

Foxy

edmundintokyo said:

MarqueeMark said:

edmundintokyo said:

MarqueeMark said:

The story is mostly that it is well contained, has high recovery levels where found and very few fatalities. However, Japan and South Korea (and to an extent Iran, Hong Kong and Italy) are a concern.

Unfortunately being *mostly* well contained is only so much help, because it spreads from places where it isn't well contained to places where it is, at which point it stops being well contained in those places as well.

But the containment story to date IS encouraging. The risk countries at the moment appear to be South Korea and Japan, two countries where you would have a higher degree of confidence in containment than say if it were running riot in Indonesia and Bangladesh.

I wouldn't be very confident of the chances of the Japanese authorities managing to contain it at this point. It's popping up all over the place, and increasingly they don't know where the people who got it got it, so there's not much hope of containing whoever it was.

Also if we're only seeing it detected in countries with good medical systems, it may be because the countries with shitty medical systems aren't detecting it, rather than because there's nothing there to detect.

Yes, I think that correct. Iran is certainly going to struggle to contain it. We should not give up on containment ourselves though.

The survival rate outside China is encouraging, but there is a time lag phenomenon, and much less stress on health systems.

A condition where 10% of affected patients require intensive care in isolation is manageable with a few dozen cases, not with hundreds. At that point ICU beds will need to be triaged and rationed and the mortality rate will jump.

South Korea is the one to watch. A city of 2 million with good economic development and health care system. If it escapes control there then it will be very difficult indeed.

rcs1000

Gadfly said:

ydoethur said:

At this moment, over half of all our electricity is being produced by wind or hydro - to be exact, 50.48%.

I suppose that’s one minor benefit of weather like this.

https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

Unfortunately, electricity only accounts for around 15% of the UK's total energy consumption.

I think it's more like 30%: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/820843/Energy_Consumption_in_the_UK__ECUK__MASTER_COPY.pdf

rcs1000

Sandpit said:

Somewhat astonishingly, Betfair’s Dem Nom market still has TEN candidates with lay prices.

The back prices for those ten candidates add up to 92.7%, so the market reckons there’s a 7.3% chance that the person nominated isn’t one of their FIFTY named runners.

https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28009878/multi-market?marketIds=1.128161111

A free money market, surely one of those top ten has to win it?

If Bernie wins, declare his VP, and then pops his clogs before the convention, the nomination could easily end up in the hands of someone we've never heard of

Gadfly

rcs1000 said:

Gadfly said:

ydoethur said:

At this moment, over half of all our electricity is being produced by wind or hydro - to be exact, 50.48%.

I suppose that’s one minor benefit of weather like this.

https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

Unfortunately, electricity only accounts for around 15% of the UK's total energy consumption.

I think it's more like 30%: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/820843/Energy_Consumption_in_the_UK__ECUK__MASTER_COPY.pdf

It's been a few years since I last did the sums, but the Digest of United Kingdom Energy Statistics (DUKES) provides total energy consumption as tonnes of oil equivalent, which can be multiplied by 11630 to produce kWh. This can then be compared against the DUKES figure for electricity consumption.

Foxy

South Korea seems to be the place where the most mass testing is taking place, so should give us a better idea of asymptomatic and mild cases. Sensitivity and specificity of the test will not be perfect of course, there are many instances of repeated negative tests before diagnosis was established.

https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1231078493322018816?s=19

MarqueeMark

rcs1000 said:

Sandpit said:

Somewhat astonishingly, Betfair’s Dem Nom market still has TEN candidates with lay prices.

The back prices for those ten candidates add up to 92.7%, so the market reckons there’s a 7.3% chance that the person nominated isn’t one of their FIFTY named runners.

https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28009878/multi-market?marketIds=1.128161111

A free money market, surely one of those top ten has to win it?

If Bernie wins, declare his VP, and then pops his clogs before the convention, the nomination could easily end up in the hands of someone we've never heard of

Is the reason I haven't touched this market. It just has too much potential for WTF???, when you have a bunch of Very Old People slugging it out under the greatest stress they will have ever faced.

No-one in the frame to my mind has what it will take to beat Trump. And I say that in despair..... The idea that Trump is the Best America Can Offer for 8 years - sheesh.

Sandpit

rcs1000 said:

Sandpit said:

Somewhat astonishingly, Betfair’s Dem Nom market still has TEN candidates with lay prices.

The back prices for those ten candidates add up to 92.7%, so the market reckons there’s a 7.3% chance that the person nominated isn’t one of their FIFTY named runners.

https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28009878/multi-market?marketIds=1.128161111

A free money market, surely one of those top ten has to win it?

If Bernie wins, declare his VP, and then pops his clogs before the convention, the nomination could easily end up in the hands of someone we've never heard of

Do you reckon that it’s a 13/1 shot that Sanders will have a clear lead, pick a total nobody as his running mate, get sick (or worse) and withdraw, all before the convention, at which all the delegates row behind the total unknown?

If so, I’ll happily lay you £100 at that price, against my £1300

Jonathan

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Casino_Royale

I've got a feeling I'm going to spend all year playing these markets, and a lot of time, only to find I've made...

Zero pounds.

edmundintokyo

More "the Japanese authorities have totally got this" news:

新型コロナウイルスの集団感染が起きているクルーズ船内で業務していた厚生労働省などの職員の多くが、ウイルスの検査を受けずに職場に復帰していたことが分かりました。厚労省内で検査が一度は検討されたものの、陽性者が多く出た場合の業務への影響などを考慮し、見送られたということです。

https://news.tbs.co.jp/newseye/tbs_newseye3911566.html

My translation (warning, I'm a software developer not a translator):

Many of the Health and Welfare Ministry staff who worked on the cruise ship that had a mass infection of the new type of coronavirus returned to their workplace without being tested. The ministry considered testing them, but postponed testing in view of the possible impact on their work in the event that many of them tested positive.

edmundintokyo

Casino_Royale said:

I've got a feeling I'm going to spend all year playing these markets, and a lot of time, only to find I've made...

Zero pounds.

That must put you in like the top 10% of punters...

Sandpit

edmundintokyo said:

More "the Japanese authorities have totally got this" news:

My translation (warning, I'm not a translator):

Many of the Health and Environment Ministry staff who worked on the cruise ship that had a mass infection of the new type of coronavirus returned to their workplace without being tested. The ministry considered testing them, but postponed testing in view of the possible impact on their work in the event that many of them tested positive.

Err, whoops.

So there’s a pretty good chance of the whole of the Health and Environment Ministry staff getting the virus, or worse passing it on to otherwise uninfected people who come to them with no more than a bad cold?

ydoethur

edmundintokyo said:

More "the Japanese authorities have totally got this" news:

新型コロナウイルスの集団感染が起きているクルーズ船内で業務していた厚生労働省などの職員の多くが、ウイルスの検査を受けずに職場に復帰していたことが分かりました。厚労省内で検査が一度は検討されたものの、陽性者が多く出た場合の業務への影響などを考慮し、見送られたということです。

https://news.tbs.co.jp/newseye/tbs_newseye3911566.html

My translation (warning, I'm a software developer not a translator):

Many of the Health and Welfare Ministry staff who worked on the cruise ship that had a mass infection of the new type of coronavirus returned to their workplace without being tested. The ministry considered testing them, but postponed testing in view of the possible impact on their work in the event that many of them tested positive.

How do you spell ‘retards?’

IanB2

Casino_Royale said:

I've got a feeling I'm going to spend all year playing these markets, and a lot of time, only to find I've made...

Zero pounds.

If you’re going to spent a lot of time on something, it’s always best to sketch out your best case outcome

Casino_Royale

rcs1000 said:

Sandpit said:

Somewhat astonishingly, Betfair’s Dem Nom market still has TEN candidates with lay prices.

The back prices for those ten candidates add up to 92.7%, so the market reckons there’s a 7.3% chance that the person nominated isn’t one of their FIFTY named runners.

https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28009878/multi-market?marketIds=1.128161111

A free money market, surely one of those top ten has to win it?

If Bernie wins, declare his VP, and then pops his clogs before the convention, the nomination could easily end up in the hands of someone we've never heard of

That's why it's worth keeping Warren onside all the way.

IanB2

edmundintokyo said:

MarqueeMark said:

The story is mostly that it is well contained, has high recovery levels where found and very few fatalities. However, Japan and South Korea (and to an extent Iran, Hong Kong and Italy) are a concern.

Unfortunately being *mostly* well contained is only so much help, because it spreads from places where it isn't well contained to places where it is, at which point it stops being well contained in those places as well.

Yes, and I don’t believe there aren’t any actual cases in Africa.

I was speaking to my Thai friend yesterday; she has her (British) husband and daughter out there and is in daily contact. From what she says, there is growing panic with events being cancelled, people dropping their travel plans, many people wearing masks and some trying to avoid going out. Regardless of the path of the disease there will surely be an economic consequence from all this suspended activity.

squareroot2

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

IanB2

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

I’ll be getting one, then as I need to renew mine in the autumn. I have had two burgundy ones and before that a black one. Having a blue one will be a novelty.

IanB2

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

As we could, all along. Nations can choose their own colour within the EU - Croatia is sticking with blue, for example. The whole thing is a fuss about nothing.

The size and bendy format that is now becoming uniform is down to the reading machines at airports.

Jonathan

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

I don’t care what colour it is. I don’t care how countries customise theirs.

I don’t like smug here today, gone tomorrow politicians using them to make their silly nationalistic political points.

squareroot2

IanB2 said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

As we could, all along. Nations can choose their own colour within the EU - Croatia is sticking with blue, for example. The whole thing is a fuss about nothing.

The size and bendy format that is now becoming uniform is down to the reading machines at airports.

Yeah, I am sure you can, but deviating from what the Godfathers want would have been seen as treacherous, I don't know of any other colours and have never seen any other passport other than burgundy going thro EU terminals...

IanB2

Sandpit said:

rcs1000 said:

Sandpit said:

Somewhat astonishingly, Betfair’s Dem Nom market still has TEN candidates with lay prices.

The back prices for those ten candidates add up to 92.7%, so the market reckons there’s a 7.3% chance that the person nominated isn’t one of their FIFTY named runners.

https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28009878/multi-market?marketIds=1.128161111

A free money market, surely one of those top ten has to win it?

If Bernie wins, declare his VP, and then pops his clogs before the convention, the nomination could easily end up in the hands of someone we've never heard of

Do you reckon that it’s a 13/1 shot that Sanders will have a clear lead, pick a total nobody as his running mate, get sick (or worse) and withdraw, all before the convention, at which all the delegates row behind the total unknown?

If so, I’ll happily lay you £100 at that price, against my £1300

Maybe he intends to pick Mrs Clinton or Mrs Obama as his VP? It would explain the betting, at least.

Sandpit

IanB2 said:

Sandpit said:

rcs1000 said:

Sandpit said:

Somewhat astonishingly, Betfair’s Dem Nom market still has TEN candidates with lay prices.

The back prices for those ten candidates add up to 92.7%, so the market reckons there’s a 7.3% chance that the person nominated isn’t one of their FIFTY named runners.

https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28009878/multi-market?marketIds=1.128161111

A free money market, surely one of those top ten has to win it?

If Bernie wins, declare his VP, and then pops his clogs before the convention, the nomination could easily end up in the hands of someone we've never heard of

Do you reckon that it’s a 13/1 shot that Sanders will have a clear lead, pick a total nobody as his running mate, get sick (or worse) and withdraw, all before the convention, at which all the delegates row behind the total unknown?

If so, I’ll happily lay you £100 at that price, against my £1300

Maybe he intends to pick Mrs Clinton or Mrs Obama as his VP? It would explain the betting, at least.

Mrs Clinton and Mrs Obama are both among the ten layable candidates! This market is totally bonkers.

Candidate BF back price
Sanders 2.02
Bloomberg 5.3
Buttigeig 9.2
Biden 15.5
Clinton H 34
Warren 42
Klobuchar 130
Obama M 230
Steyer 510
Patrick 360

Jonathan

squareroot2 said:

IanB2 said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

As we could, all along. Nations can choose their own colour within the EU - Croatia is sticking with blue, for example. The whole thing is a fuss about nothing.

The size and bendy format that is now becoming uniform is down to the reading machines at airports.

Yeah, I am sure you can, but deviating from what the Godfathers want would have been seen as treacherous, I don't know of any other colours and have never seen any other passport other than burgundy going thro EU terminals...

Hope the next government depoliticises it by allowing individuals to choose the colour passport they prefer.

kle4

We are probably getting close to the stage where the Democratic loyalists who up until now have hated or feared Bernie - given hes not really a Democrat and they thought he will lose to Trump - will start to talk about how actually when you think about it hes alright, how his goals align with them even if he was an indy, and that he can win if they now back him given he looks like getting the nomination.

Prepare for some epic turnarounds.

TGOHF666

https://twitter.com/niall_gooch/status/1231127453709611008?s=21

TGOHF666

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Yes - everyone knows blue is the colour of Israel , Bernie Madoff and Man City - burn the witch !!

Jonathan

TGOHF666 said:

https://twitter.com/niall_gooch/status/1231127453709611008?s=21

Did the naughty journalist not do what Dom told her to? How dreadful.

kle4

Jonathan said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

I don’t care what colour it is. I don’t care how countries customise theirs.

I don’t like smug here today, gone tomorrow politicians using them to make their silly nationalistic political points.

If you didnt care about the change it would not upset you so much that they are smugly satisfied about it. I guarantee they dont care about it except that it upsets opponents to a disproportionate degree.

So yes it is smugness but you're only encouraging them to pursue similar smug opportunities by getting so annoyed. Its classic trolling.

kle4

edmundintokyo said:

More "the Japanese authorities have totally got this" news:

新型コロナウイルスの集団感染が起きているクルーズ船内で業務していた厚生労働省などの職員の多くが、ウイルスの検査を受けずに職場に復帰していたことが分かりました。厚労省内で検査が一度は検討されたものの、陽性者が多く出た場合の業務への影響などを考慮し、見送られたということです。

https://news.tbs.co.jp/newseye/tbs_newseye3911566.html

My translation (warning, I'm a software developer not a translator):

Many of the Health and Welfare Ministry staff who worked on the cruise ship that had a mass infection of the new type of coronavirus returned to their workplace without being tested. The ministry considered testing them, but postponed testing in view of the possible impact on their work in the event that many of them tested positive.

WTF? Thats astoundingly stupid.

TGOHF666

https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1231136411568480257?s=21

malcolmg

IanB2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

I’ll be getting one, then as I need to renew mine in the autumn. I have had two burgundy ones and before that a black one. Having a blue one will be a novelty.

will be life changing for sure

Jonathan

kle4 said:

Jonathan said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

I don’t care what colour it is. I don’t care how countries customise theirs.

I don’t like smug here today, gone tomorrow politicians using them to make their silly nationalistic political points.

If you didnt care about the change it would not upset you so much that they are smugly satisfied about it. I guarantee they dont care about it except that it upsets opponents to a disproportionate degree.

So yes it is smugness but you're only encouraging them to pursue similar smug opportunities by getting so annoyed. Its classic trolling.

It’s reasonable to object when national symbols that should be neutral are appropriated and manipulated for narrow political ends.

squareroot2

malcolmg said:

IanB2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

I’ll be getting one, then as I need to renew mine in the autumn. I have had two burgundy ones and before that a black one. Having a blue one will be a novelty.

will be life changing for sure

Malcy, What do you think about the Scottish Govt trying to pull the wool over the electorates eyes over the appalling Education results?

kle4

rcs1000 said:

Sandpit said:

Somewhat astonishingly, Betfair’s Dem Nom market still has TEN candidates with lay prices.

The back prices for those ten candidates add up to 92.7%, so the market reckons there’s a 7.3% chance that the person nominated isn’t one of their FIFTY named runners.

https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28009878/multi-market?marketIds=1.128161111

A free money market, surely one of those top ten has to win it?

If Bernie wins, declare his VP, and then pops his clogs before the convention, the nomination could easily end up in the hands of someone we've never heard of

Given a VP might be needed to step into the top job I assume the same age restrictions as the presidency apply, otherwise from casual reading of American politics Id assume hed pick someone like AOC who is too young, going for as radical a person as he can and thats that.

malcolmg

IanB2 said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

As we could, all along. Nations can choose their own colour within the EU - Croatia is sticking with blue, for example. The whole thing is a fuss about nothing.

The size and bendy format that is now becoming uniform is down to the reading machines at airports.

Exactly , yet the cretinous halfwitted jingoistic nutters think they have got one over the EU by copying the blue colour of the US passport, pathetic given it was always in their power to do so.

Jonathan

TGOHF666 said:

https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1231136411568480257?s=21

Dan characteristically steps up to hammer in the final nail with his endorsement as he has done so many times before.

IanB2

Sandpit said:

IanB2 said:

Sandpit said:

rcs1000 said:

Sandpit said:

Somewhat astonishingly, Betfair’s Dem Nom market still has TEN candidates with lay prices.

The back prices for those ten candidates add up to 92.7%, so the market reckons there’s a 7.3% chance that the person nominated isn’t one of their FIFTY named runners.

https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28009878/multi-market?marketIds=1.128161111

A free money market, surely one of those top ten has to win it?

If Bernie wins, declare his VP, and then pops his clogs before the convention, the nomination could easily end up in the hands of someone we've never heard of

Do you reckon that it’s a 13/1 shot that Sanders will have a clear lead, pick a total nobody as his running mate, get sick (or worse) and withdraw, all before the convention, at which all the delegates row behind the total unknown?

If so, I’ll happily lay you £100 at that price, against my £1300

Maybe he intends to pick Mrs Clinton or Mrs Obama as his VP? It would explain the betting, at least.

Mrs Clinton and Mrs Obama are both among the ten layable candidates! This market is totally bonkers.

Candidate BF back price
Sanders 2.02
Bloomberg 5.3
Buttigeig 9.2
Biden 15.5
Clinton H 34
Warren 42
Klobuchar 130
Obama M 230
Steyer 510
Patrick 360

Well, brainstorming routes for them, there is the “Bernie picks them as running mate and then drops out” route. There’s the “Facing certain defeat Dems have a chaotic convention and appoint a well known figure as compromise from the fallout” route. There’s the “Mrs C or Mrs O unexpectedly throws their hat in the ring standing as an Indy and even more unexpectedly wins (which only wins next Pres, not Dem nominee).

Are there others?

squareroot2

TGOHF666 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Yes - everyone knows blue is the colour of Israel , Bernie Madoff and Man City - burn the witch !!

naaaah. Man City have that ghastly light blue colour... yuk... Cambridge Univ too.. Real blue is Oxford University colours.

kle4

Jonathan said:

kle4 said:

Jonathan said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

I don’t care what colour it is. I don’t care how countries customise theirs.

I don’t like smug here today, gone tomorrow politicians using them to make their silly nationalistic political points.

If you didnt care about the change it would not upset you so much that they are smugly satisfied about it. I guarantee they dont care about it except that it upsets opponents to a disproportionate degree.

So yes it is smugness but you're only encouraging them to pursue similar smug opportunities by getting so annoyed. Its classic trolling.

It’s reasonable to object when national symbols that should be neutral are appropriated and manipulated for narrow political ends.

Yes, but it's also reasonable to point out when someone clearly does care a great deal and is very upset about it but was saying they dont care. It doesnt undermine your point but you do care what the colour is because you dont like the colour being changed for political reasons.

TGOHF666

squareroot2 said:

TGOHF666 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Yes - everyone knows blue is the colour of Israel , Bernie Madoff and Man City - burn the witch !!

naaaah. Man City have that ghastly light blue colour... yuk... Cambridge Univ too.. Real blue is Oxford University colours.

It’s more navy than blue.

Weirdly not many footie teams have a navy strip - Dundee FC and Bolton are the only examples I can think of ? Maybe Spurs.

MarqueeMark

Jonathan said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

I don’t care what colour it is. I don’t care how countries customise theirs.

I don’t like smug here today, gone tomorrow politicians using them to make their silly nationalistic political points.

I hate to break it to you but

- Boris won't be gone tomorrow

- the blue flag with yellow stars of the EU is very much making a silly nationalistic political point ie that they have rolled 28 27 countries into a nation that doesn't really exist outside of their silly nation-building flag......

So relax some.

welshowl

Jonathan said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

I don’t care what colour it is. I don’t care how countries customise theirs.

I don’t like smug here today, gone tomorrow politicians using them to make their silly nationalistic political points.

I don’t particularly care what colour it is, really, and I’m not going to renew mine till it’s due in about 8 years, however, the original introduction was the EC making a silly smug supranational political point. I didn’t want “European Union” on the front, nor did I particularly want to be the same colour as the other nations. It wasn’t a big point, but it was a niggle. I’d never been asked, it was decided for me with no means of redress that I could see. Ditto driving licences; again “Europe” appeared on them hoping by some process of political osmosis we’d all feel happily European about it.

Well it clearly backfired, because it became an issue, a little stone in a shoe. Might be trivial, worse things happen at sea and all that, but it was there in the pile of annoying niggles, that could have been avoided by Europe in their quest for visible evidence of ever closer union. And then one day there was a vote where you could remove the stone in your shoe.....

Jonathan

kle4 said:

Jonathan said:

kle4 said:

Jonathan said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

I don’t care what colour it is. I don’t care how countries customise theirs.

I don’t like smug here today, gone tomorrow politicians using them to make their silly nationalistic political points.

If you didnt care about the change it would not upset you so much that they are smugly satisfied about it. I guarantee they dont care about it except that it upsets opponents to a disproportionate degree.

So yes it is smugness but you're only encouraging them to pursue similar smug opportunities by getting so annoyed. Its classic trolling.

It’s reasonable to object when national symbols that should be neutral are appropriated and manipulated for narrow political ends.

Yes, but it's also reasonable to point out when someone clearly does care a great deal and is very upset about it but was saying they dont care. It doesnt undermine your point but you do care what the colour is because you dont like the colour being changed for political reasons.

The colour per se is not the issue, it’s what it’s being used to symbolise that’s the problem. By carrying this passport, I am carrying someone else’s political baggage.

Let’s hope the next government allows people to choose whatever colour they fancy.

Black_Rook

kle4 said:

We are probably getting close to the stage where the Democratic loyalists who up until now have hated or feared Bernie - given hes not really a Democrat and they thought he will lose to Trump - will start to talk about how actually when you think about it hes alright, how his goals align with them even if he was an indy, and that he can win if they now back him given he looks like getting the nomination.

Prepare for some epic turnarounds.

Although you'll also end up with a Never Bernie faction, no doubt. Of course, whether they'll be any more successful than the Never Trump or Never Corbyn or Never Boris factions is somewhat open to question...

IanB2

The expert on R4 this morning saying that the object now is to delay and spread out the peak of the infection to try and spread the load on health services and avoid them being overwhelmed; they clearly think that avoiding it altogether isn’t realistic now.

kle4

Jonathan said:

TGOHF666 said:

https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1231136411568480257?s=21

Dan characteristically steps up to hammer in the final nail with his endorsement as he has done so many times before.

What about his comment does that? You claimed not to care about the colour of passports so setting aside politics, and without desiring a change regardless of the answer, do you prefer blue to burgundy? Since you dont care it should be easy to say blue looks better if you think that, or indeed burgundy is best, as Dan has given his view.

I'm as baffled by the strength of your upset as I am by those who upset about them being burgundy in the first place.

IanB2

MarqueeMark said:

Jonathan said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

I don’t care what colour it is. I don’t care how countries customise theirs.

I don’t like smug here today, gone tomorrow politicians using them to make their silly nationalistic political points.

I hate to break it to you but

- Boris won't be gone tomorrow

- the blue flag with yellow stars of the EU is very much making a silly nationalistic political point ie that they have rolled 28 27 countries into a nation that doesn't really exist outside of their silly nation-building flag......

So relax some.

It’s nice to have a flag that hasn’t been appropriated by far right politicians, nationalist thugs and football yobs, though.

malcolmg

squareroot2 said:

malcolmg said:

IanB2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

I’ll be getting one, then as I need to renew mine in the autumn. I have had two burgundy ones and before that a black one. Having a blue one will be a novelty.

will be life changing for sure

Malcy, What do you think about the Scottish Govt trying to pull the wool over the electorates eyes over the appalling Education results?

If you read the results rather than the bollox unionist reporting you will see that in 7 of 9 subjects the results were all upward , only two subjects reduced and by a miniscule amount. They are doing a perfectly good job on a very hard subject, could be better but then we don't have the English "anyone can pass" style exams, so they could just make it easy for themselves a la Westminster instead of trying to do it right.

kle4

Black_Rook said:

kle4 said:

We are probably getting close to the stage where the Democratic loyalists who up until now have hated or feared Bernie - given hes not really a Democrat and they thought he will lose to Trump - will start to talk about how actually when you think about it hes alright, how his goals align with them even if he was an indy, and that he can win if they now back him given he looks like getting the nomination.

Prepare for some epic turnarounds.

Although you'll also end up with a Never Bernie faction, no doubt. Of course, whether they'll be any more successful than the Never Trump or Never Corbyn or Never Boris factions is somewhat open to question...

Oh I'm sure that's right. Maybe enough to stop him winning the presidential I'd not the primary as you suggest. But few things better than seeing people line up behind someone they despised politically.

TGOHF666

IanB2 said:

MarqueeMark said:

Jonathan said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

I don’t care what colour it is. I don’t care how countries customise theirs.

I don’t like smug here today, gone tomorrow politicians using them to make their silly nationalistic political points.

I hate to break it to you but

- Boris won't be gone tomorrow

- the blue flag with yellow stars of the EU is very much making a silly nationalistic political point ie that they have rolled 28 27 countries into a nation that doesn't really exist outside of their silly nation-building flag......

So relax some.

It’s nice to have a flag that hasn’t been appropriated by far right politicians, nationalist thugs and football yobs, though.

Imagine letting such groups put you off your own flag.

TGOHF666

Surely the big issue is what will the colours and branding be for the European Ryder cup team going forward ?

squareroot2

malcolmg said:

squareroot2 said:

malcolmg said:

IanB2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

I’ll be getting one, then as I need to renew mine in the autumn. I have had two burgundy ones and before that a black one. Having a blue one will be a novelty.

will be life changing for sure

Malcy, What do you think about the Scottish Govt trying to pull the wool over the electorates eyes over the appalling Education results?

If you read the results rather than the bollox unionist reporting you will see that in 7 of 9 subjects the results were all upward , only two subjects reduced and by a miniscule amount. They are doing a perfectly good job on a very hard subject, could be better but then we don't have the English "anyone can pass" style exams, so they could just make it easy for themselves a la Westminster instead of trying to do it right.

figs of down a lot more were mentioned on the BBC last night Malc.. The BBC wouldn't lie about it would they? I mean,are you are suggesting that the SNP can present figs anyway they like and that's ok, even if its being economical with the truth?

Foxy

IanB2 said:

The expert on R4 this morning saying that the object now is to delay and spread out the peak of the infection to try and spread the load on health services and avoid them being overwhelmed; they clearly think that avoiding it altogether isn’t realistic now.

That is pretty much the outline in my Trusts Pandemic Flu plan, which has been dusted off. Mrs Foxy has had her mask and PPE training, which is being rolled out across all staff, though not to me yet.

welshowl

IanB2 said:

MarqueeMark said:

Jonathan said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

I don’t care what colour it is. I don’t care how countries customise theirs.

I don’t like smug here today, gone tomorrow politicians using them to make their silly nationalistic political points.

I hate to break it to you but

- Boris won't be gone tomorrow

- the blue flag with yellow stars of the EU is very much making a silly nationalistic political point ie that they have rolled 28 27 countries into a nation that doesn't really exist outside of their silly nation-building flag......

So relax some.

It’s nice to have a flag that hasn’t been appropriated by far right politicians, nationalist thugs and football yobs, though.

Like the one with a red Dragon on it on a green and white background I and 74000 others will be backing later in Cardiff?

Jonathan

kle4 said:

Jonathan said:

TGOHF666 said:

https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1231136411568480257?s=21

Dan characteristically steps up to hammer in the final nail with his endorsement as he has done so many times before.

What about his comment does that? You claimed not to care about the colour of passports so setting aside politics, and without desiring a change regardless of the answer, do you prefer blue to burgundy?
I'm as baffled by the strength of your upset as I am by those who upset about them being burgundy in the first place.

Let’s illustrate with an extreme example. If a politician said that from now on colour X represented a political belief that you disagreed with and then made everyone carry that colour, would you care?

You don’t have anything against the colour In itself, but what it now represents and the obligation to show that belief.

The blue passport was not a necessary part of Brexit. It now represents something else. A nostalgic retreat to days gone by and to petty nationalistic politics. Politicians like Patel who delight in such things and use it for their political ends, do not represent the values of our country. I do not particularly like being forced to be part of that.

PS Dan Hodges settles like an albatross on any political career (David Milliband in particular) and deserves a bit of gentle ribbing.

welshowl

TGOHF666 said:

Surely the big issue is what will the colours and branding be for the European Ryder cup team going forward ?

They could dynamically align with the Union Jack every other tournament?

kle4

Jonathan said:

kle4 said:

Jonathan said:

kle4 said:

Jonathan said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

I don’t care what colour it is. I don’t care how countries customise theirs.

I don’t like smug here today, gone tomorrow politicians using them to make their silly nationalistic political points.

If you didnt care about the change it would not upset you so much that they are smugly satisfied about it. I guarantee they dont care about it except that it upsets opponents to a disproportionate degree.

So yes it is smugness but you're only encouraging them to pursue similar smug opportunities by getting so annoyed. Its classic trolling.

It’s reasonable to object when national symbols that should be neutral are appropriated and manipulated for narrow political ends.

Yes, but it's also reasonable to point out when someone clearly does care a great deal and is very upset about it but was saying they dont care. It doesnt undermine your point but you do care what the colour is because you dont like the colour being changed for political reasons.

The colour per se is not the issue, it’s what it’s being used to symbolise that’s the problem. By carrying this passport, I am carrying someone else’s political baggage.

Let’s hope the next government allows people to choose whatever colour they fancy.

I doubt it, standardisation for official documentation is reasonable, it's why even though it wasnt obligatory a standard colour across most of the EU was perfectly reasonable.

The government has not taken away our choice re the colour, we as users never had a choice. as such whatever their motivations (and none would likely deny its symbolic if petty) using one has no political impact. Being able to pick and choose what they like would make it political as people expressed views through which colour ir design they picked.

Funnily enough the first complaint about the colour of passports I recall was in Bill Brysons Notes from a small island. I think he suggested that looked like the identity papers of a polish seaman or something.

geoffw

Interesting take on Coronavirus by Matt Ridley.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/02/why-have-so-many-of-our-recent-viruses-come-from-bats/

malcolmg

squareroot2 said:

malcolmg said:

squareroot2 said:

malcolmg said:

IanB2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

I’ll be getting one, then as I need to renew mine in the autumn. I have had two burgundy ones and before that a black one. Having a blue one will be a novelty.

will be life changing for sure

Malcy, What do you think about the Scottish Govt trying to pull the wool over the electorates eyes over the appalling Education results?

If you read the results rather than the bollox unionist reporting you will see that in 7 of 9 subjects the results were all upward , only two subjects reduced and by a miniscule amount. They are doing a perfectly good job on a very hard subject, could be better but then we don't have the English "anyone can pass" style exams, so they could just make it easy for themselves a la Westminster instead of trying to do it right.

figs of down a lot more were mentioned on the BBC last night Malc.. The BBC wouldn't lie about it would they? I mean,are you are suggesting that the SNP can present figs anyway they like and that's ok, even if its being economical with the truth?

I would stake my life that the UK state propaganda unit would lie and manipulate any information such that they could attempt to say that the SNP are bad and Scotland and all its people are useless and crap.
They make Goebbels unit look like amateurs.

kle4

Jonathan said:

kle4 said:

Jonathan said:

TGOHF666 said:

https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1231136411568480257?s=21

Dan characteristically steps up to hammer in the final nail with his endorsement as he has done so many times before.

What about his comment does that? You claimed not to care about the colour of passports so setting aside politics, and without desiring a change regardless of the answer, do you prefer blue to burgundy?
I'm as baffled by the strength of your upset as I am by those who upset about them being burgundy in the first place.

Let’s illustrate with an extreme example. If a politician said that from now on colour X represented a political belief that you disagreed with and then made everyone carry that colour, would you care?

You don’t have anything against the colour In itself, but what it now represents and the obligation to show that belief.

The blue passport was not a necessary part of Brexit. It now represents something else. A nostalgic retreat to days gone by and to petty nationalistic politics. Politicians like Patel who delight in such things and use it for their political ends, do not represent the values of our country. I do not particularly like being forced to be part of that.

PS Dan Hodges settles like an albatross on any political career (David Milliband in particular) and deserves a bit of gentle ribbing.

I get your point, but in your ribbing you were still seemingly objecting to what in essence was a question, setting aside the other issues, of preferring blue or burgundy in the abstract. Personally I'd prefer British Racing Green.

But its time to be off. Pleasant if cold mornings to all

kle4

TGOHF666 said:

Surely the big issue is what will the colours and branding be for the European Ryder cup team going forward ?

Just keep it. It's also the flag of the Council of Europe, presumably before it was the EUs

welshowl

kle4 said:

TGOHF666 said:

Surely the big issue is what will the colours and branding be for the European Ryder cup team going forward ?

Just keep it. It's also the flag of the Council of Europe, presumably before it was the EUs

Maybe we will be playing on the same side as the Americans by then anyway?

RobD

Jonathan said:

kle4 said:

Jonathan said:

TGOHF666 said:

https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1231136411568480257?s=21

Dan characteristically steps up to hammer in the final nail with his endorsement as he has done so many times before.

What about his comment does that? You claimed not to care about the colour of passports so setting aside politics, and without desiring a change regardless of the answer, do you prefer blue to burgundy?
I'm as baffled by the strength of your upset as I am by those who upset about them being burgundy in the first place.

Let’s illustrate with an extreme example. If a politician said that from now on colour X represented a political belief that you disagreed with and then made everyone carry that colour, would you care?

You don’t have anything against the colour In itself, but what it now represents and the obligation to show that belief.

The blue passport was not a necessary part of Brexit. It now represents something else. A nostalgic retreat to days gone by and to petty nationalistic politics. Politicians like Patel who delight in such things and use it for their political ends, do not represent the values of our country. I do not particularly like being forced to be part of that.

PS Dan Hodges settles like an albatross on any political career (David Milliband in particular) and deserves a bit of gentle ribbing.

I assume you were equally as outraged with the politicisation of the passport when the color was changed to burgundy and the words EU were added? Or is this just a one way thing?

kle4

welshowl said:

Jonathan said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

I don’t care what colour it is. I don’t care how countries customise theirs.

I don’t like smug here today, gone tomorrow politicians using them to make their silly nationalistic political points.

I don’t particularly care what colour it is, really, and I’m not going to renew mine till it’s due in about 8 years, however, the original introduction was the EC making a silly smug supranational political point. I didn’t want “European Union” on the front, nor did I particularly want to be the same colour as the other nations. It wasn’t a big point, but it was a niggle. I’d never been asked, it was decided for me with no means of redress that I could see. Ditto driving licences; again “Europe” appeared on them hoping by some process of political osmosis we’d all feel happily European about it.

Well it clearly backfired, because it became an issue, a little stone in a shoe. Might be trivial, worse things happen at sea and all that, but it was there in the pile of annoying niggles, that could have been avoided by Europe in their quest for visible evidence of ever closer union. And then one day there was a vote where you could remove the stone in your shoe.....

I think a lot of the troubles the EU had were the impression it was involved or seeking uniformity in areas which didnt need it or were trivial. As you say little things then became big niggles for people. Though on those particular examples I didnt mind. A perception it was forever focused on petty details seemed to do it more harm than the bigger harmonisation, done of which were disliked but others not.

Gallowgate

Any sign of the glorious unicorns yet?

welshowl

kle4 said:

welshowl said:

Jonathan said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

I don’t care what colour it is. I don’t care how countries customise theirs.

I don’t like smug here today, gone tomorrow politicians using them to make their silly nationalistic political points.

I don’t particularly care what colour it is, really, and I’m not going to renew mine till it’s due in about 8 years, however, the original introduction was the EC making a silly smug supranational political point. I didn’t want “European Union” on the front, nor did I particularly want to be the same colour as the other nations. It wasn’t a big point, but it was a niggle. I’d never been asked, it was decided for me with no means of redress that I could see. Ditto driving licences; again “Europe” appeared on them hoping by some process of political osmosis we’d all feel happily European about it.

Well it clearly backfired, because it became an issue, a little stone in a shoe. Might be trivial, worse things happen at sea and all that, but it was there in the pile of annoying niggles, that could have been avoided by Europe in their quest for visible evidence of ever closer union. And then one day there was a vote where you could remove the stone in your shoe.....

I think a lot of the troubles the EU had were the impression it was involved or seeking uniformity in areas which didnt need it or were trivial. As you say little things then became big niggles for people. Though on those particular examples I didnt mind.

Yes. They were trying to create togetherness by imposing symbols, rather that the symbols reflecting the togetherness that was there anyway.

RobD

kle4 said:

welshowl said:

Jonathan said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

I don’t care what colour it is. I don’t care how countries customise theirs.

I don’t like smug here today, gone tomorrow politicians using them to make their silly nationalistic political points.

I don’t particularly care what colour it is, really, and I’m not going to renew mine till it’s due in about 8 years, however, the original introduction was the EC making a silly smug supranational political point. I didn’t want “European Union” on the front, nor did I particularly want to be the same colour as the other nations. It wasn’t a big point, but it was a niggle. I’d never been asked, it was decided for me with no means of redress that I could see. Ditto driving licences; again “Europe” appeared on them hoping by some process of political osmosis we’d all feel happily European about it.

Well it clearly backfired, because it became an issue, a little stone in a shoe. Might be trivial, worse things happen at sea and all that, but it was there in the pile of annoying niggles, that could have been avoided by Europe in their quest for visible evidence of ever closer union. And then one day there was a vote where you could remove the stone in your shoe.....

I think a lot of the troubles the EU had were the impression it was involved or seeking uniformity in areas which didnt need it or were trivial. As you say little things then became big niggles for people. Though on those particular examples I didnt mind. A perception it was forever focused on petty details seemed to do it more harm than the bigger harmonisation, done of which were disliked but others not.

Who can forget the eurosausage?

kle4

geoffw said:

Interesting take on Coronavirus by Matt Ridley.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/02/why-have-so-many-of-our-recent-viruses-come-from-bats/

Oh crap, bats are behind it? I have bats in the hedge outside and live within a mile of several uber rare species!

Alistair

Casino_Royale said:

rcs1000 said:

Sandpit said:

Somewhat astonishingly, Betfair’s Dem Nom market still has TEN candidates with lay prices.

The back prices for those ten candidates add up to 92.7%, so the market reckons there’s a 7.3% chance that the person nominated isn’t one of their FIFTY named runners.

https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28009878/multi-market?marketIds=1.128161111

A free money market, surely one of those top ten has to win it?

If Bernie wins, declare his VP, and then pops his clogs before the convention, the nomination could easily end up in the hands of someone we've never heard of

That's why it's worth keeping Warren onside all the way.

Trust in Big Liz.

I've somehow went from a strong Dem nom book with positive numbers across it all pre Chriatmas to being basically zero on the main runners, negative on Bloomberg/the field and a big but now unlayable green next to Warren.

So I believe in Warren.

Big_G_NorthWales

malcolmg said:

IanB2 said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

As we could, all along. Nations can choose their own colour within the EU - Croatia is sticking with blue, for example. The whole thing is a fuss about nothing.

The size and bendy format that is now becoming uniform is down to the reading machines at airports.

Exactly , yet the cretinous halfwitted jingoistic nutters think they have got one over the EU by copying the blue colour of the US passport, pathetic given it was always in their power to do so.

To be fair blue was the colour of our passports and I see no problem using it again. Having said that, I renewed my passport last summer and have the burgundy one for the rest of my lifetime, probably

Nigelb

edmundintokyo said:

If you ever ordered something off Amazon and regretted it later take comfort in the fact that Bloomberg is going to spend like half a billion dollars handing the nomination over to Bernie Sanders.

There’s no fool like an old fool... except there are several in this race.

Morris_Dancer

Would Bloomberg run as an independent if he fails to get the nod from the blues?

geoffw

kle4 said:

geoffw said:

Interesting take on Coronavirus by Matt Ridley.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/02/why-have-so-many-of-our-recent-viruses-come-from-bats/

Oh crap, bats are behind it? I have bats in the hedge outside and live within a mile of several uber rare species!

Did you read it? The angle he takes is to "think like a virus" if you want to understand it.

Big_G_NorthWales

Jonathan said:

kle4 said:

Jonathan said:

kle4 said:

Jonathan said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

I don’t care what colour it is. I don’t care how countries customise theirs.

I don’t like smug here today, gone tomorrow politicians using them to make their silly nationalistic political points.

If you didnt care about the change it would not upset you so much that they are smugly satisfied about it. I guarantee they dont care about it except that it upsets opponents to a disproportionate degree.

So yes it is smugness but you're only encouraging them to pursue similar smug opportunities by getting so annoyed. Its classic trolling.

It’s reasonable to object when national symbols that should be neutral are appropriated and manipulated for narrow political ends.

Yes, but it's also reasonable to point out when someone clearly does care a great deal and is very upset about it but was saying they dont care. It doesnt undermine your point but you do care what the colour is because you dont like the colour being changed for political reasons.

The colour per se is not the issue, it’s what it’s being used to symbolise that’s the problem. By carrying this passport, I am carrying someone else’s political baggage.

Let’s hope the next government allows people to choose whatever colour they fancy.

I am afraid that so much is going to change now we are an independent nation you are going to be in permanent meltdown unless you can relax a little.

Change happens all the time

geoffw

Big_G_NorthWales said:

malcolmg said:

IanB2 said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

As we could, all along. Nations can choose their own colour within the EU - Croatia is sticking with blue, for example. The whole thing is a fuss about nothing.

The size and bendy format that is now becoming uniform is down to the reading machines at airports.

Exactly , yet the cretinous halfwitted jingoistic nutters think they have got one over the EU by copying the blue colour of the US passport, pathetic given it was always in their power to do so.

To be fair blue was the colour of our passports and I see no problem using it again. Having said that, I renewed my passport last summer and have the burgundy one for the rest of my lifetime, probably

That sounds overly pessimistic for someone who is just nineteen this month.

MarqueeMark

Big_G_NorthWales said:

malcolmg said:

IanB2 said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

As we could, all along. Nations can choose their own colour within the EU - Croatia is sticking with blue, for example. The whole thing is a fuss about nothing.

The size and bendy format that is now becoming uniform is down to the reading machines at airports.

Exactly , yet the cretinous halfwitted jingoistic nutters think they have got one over the EU by copying the blue colour of the US passport, pathetic given it was always in their power to do so.

To be fair blue was the colour of our passports and I see no problem using it again. Having said that, I renewed my passport last summer and have the burgundy one for the rest of my lifetime, probably

Don't give up on us yet, Big_G! Blue passports, then the telegram from the Monarch* - both for you and your Good Lady!

(*You may even outlive the Monarchy at this rate....)

MarqueeMark

kle4 said:

geoffw said:

Interesting take on Coronavirus by Matt Ridley.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/02/why-have-so-many-of-our-recent-viruses-come-from-bats/

Oh crap, bats are behind it? I have bats in the hedge outside and live within a mile of several uber rare species!

I wish they'd make their minds up. It came from a pangolin last week.....

.....which you will not have in your hedge.

Dura_Ace

Why is Bernie the colour of a dog's bell end? Is that his actual hue?

geoffw

MarqueeMark said:

kle4 said:

geoffw said:

Interesting take on Coronavirus by Matt Ridley.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/02/why-have-so-many-of-our-recent-viruses-come-from-bats/

Oh crap, bats are behind it? I have bats in the hedge outside and live within a mile of several uber rare species!

I wish they'd make their minds up. It came from a pangolin last week.....

.....which you will not have in your hedge.

It still does (probably) according to Ridley.

Big_G_NorthWales

geoffw said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

malcolmg said:

IanB2 said:

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

Grim seeing Priti Patel posing smugly with a blue passport. Horrible to see things that should be neutral manipulated for political ends.

New blue British passport rollout to begin in March https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

Actually, and even tho I am a remainer, I loathe the idea being fostered within the EU that we are ALL Europeans... We are not and there is nothing wrong with every Country having their own distinct passport showing the different nationalities with the EU, even if the stuff inside is pretty much the same.

As we could, all along. Nations can choose their own colour within the EU - Croatia is sticking with blue, for example. The whole thing is a fuss about nothing.

The size and bendy format that is now becoming uniform is down to the reading machines at airports.

Exactly , yet the cretinous halfwitted jingoistic nutters think they have got one over the EU by copying the blue colour of the US passport, pathetic given it was always in their power to do so.

To be fair blue was the colour of our passports and I see no problem using it again. Having said that, I renewed my passport last summer and have the burgundy one for the rest of my lifetime, probably

That sounds overly pessimistic for someone who is just nineteen this month.

Indeed but my wife and I have decided to stop flying after our May trip to Vancouver as we detest it so much, and intend holidaying in our own country, unless of course circumstances require us to fly to Vancouver again at some point in the future