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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Amy Klobuchar edging up in New Hampshire ahead of tomorrow’s p

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited February 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Amy Klobuchar edging up in New Hampshire ahead of tomorrow’s primary

So far in the race for the Democratic nomination the field has tended to split into two groups: the super young people represented by 38 year old Pete Buttigieg and the very old with Michael Bloomberg, Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders who are all in their late 80s.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    edited February 2020
    FPT:

    Bloomberg just keeps getting shorter and shorter. Below 4/1 for Dem nom today.

    I’m now not so much underwater on him as in a submersible somewhere near the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

    Gulp.

    I wonder if some of that money is his money.
  • tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    Bloomberg just keeps getting shorter and shorter. Below 4/1 for Dem nom today.

    I’m now not so much underwater on him as in a submersible somewhere near the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

    Gulp.

    I wonder if some of that money is his money.
    Just keep taking his money, it's a public service.
  • tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    Bloomberg just keeps getting shorter and shorter. Below 4/1 for Dem nom today.

    I’m now not so much underwater on him as in a submersible somewhere near the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

    Gulp.

    I wonder if some of that money is his money.
    Just keep taking his money, it's a public service.
    I hope so because it’s squeaky bum time for me.
  • The Government has invoked quarantine civil contingency powers it seems:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51442314
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Mike, the old men Bloomberg, Biden and Sanders are not quite that old - they're all in their late 70s rather than late 80s.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    I would have thought Klobuchar really needs a strong second in New Hampshire having lost Iowa to be a serious contender
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574

    The Government has invoked quarantine civil contingency powers it seems:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51442314

    Presumably because they are starting to get seriously worried.

    At the risk of sounding brutal, the cruise ship outbreak is going to give us a far better idea of the proportion of mild cases which might go unrecognised out in the wider world, along with a more accurate mortality rate for this thing.
  • FPT

    Last night responding to a rather unkind quip from Tyson about our love of cruises I did say my wife and I have sailed the seven seas due to our love of seeing the world but also our lifetime passion for the sea and sailing. We went to the Artic (twice), Antarctic, South Georgia and the Falklands, sailed from Vancouver to Beijing (on Diamond Princess currently in quarantine in Japan) via Alaska, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the South China sea, several cruises to Norway, the Baltic, Iceland (twice) and Greenland. Furthermore several cruises in both the eastern and western med and the Canaries, and most recently transatlantic to Canada, New England and New York

    As my wife is now 80, and neither of us enjoy flying, we have made the decision not to consider any further cruises as there are literally few places in the world we are interested in visiting. We are due to fly to Vancouver to visit or eldest son in May but we count ourselves so fortunate that we have enjoyed so many experiences and completed so much on most peoples 'bucket lists'

    One of the features of PB is the kindness of posters across the political divide and I would like to thank all the posters who made such kind comments and suggestions following my post
  • People seem finally to have noticed that Andrew Yang is not going to win the Democratic nomination. He was a nice little earner for a long time.

    Hillary Clinton is still only last matched at 50 on Betfair for the nomination. She's basically the same price as Amy Klobuchar. Which is nuts.
  • I don't have any money on Klobuchar. That bodes well for her.

    In bullshitting to kids news, Sir Keir Starmer visited a school recently. Bloody Coalition/Conservatives, inventing homelessness.

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1226782588154580994
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    FPT

    Last night responding to a rather unkind quip from Tyson about our love of cruises I did say my wife and I have sailed the seven seas due to our love of seeing the world but also our lifetime passion for the sea and sailing. We went to the Artic (twice), Antarctic, South Georgia and the Falklands, sailed from Vancouver to Beijing (on Diamond Princess currently in quarantine in Japan) via Alaska, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the South China sea, several cruises to Norway, the Baltic, Iceland (twice) and Greenland. Furthermore several cruises in both the eastern and western med and the Canaries, and most recently transatlantic to Canada, New England and New York

    As my wife is now 80, and neither of us enjoy flying, we have made the decision not to consider any further cruises as there are literally few places in the world we are interested in visiting. We are due to fly to Vancouver to visit or eldest son in May but we count ourselves so fortunate that we have enjoyed so many experiences and completed so much on most peoples 'bucket lists'

    One of the features of PB is the kindness of posters across the political divide and I would like to thank all the posters who made such kind comments and suggestions following my post

    Out of interest, have you done the Orient Express?
  • FPT

    Last night responding to a rather unkind quip from Tyson about our love of cruises I did say my wife and I have sailed the seven seas due to our love of seeing the world but also our lifetime passion for the sea and sailing. We went to the Artic (twice), Antarctic, South Georgia and the Falklands, sailed from Vancouver to Beijing (on Diamond Princess currently in quarantine in Japan) via Alaska, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the South China sea, several cruises to Norway, the Baltic, Iceland (twice) and Greenland. Furthermore several cruises in both the eastern and western med and the Canaries, and most recently transatlantic to Canada, New England and New York

    As my wife is now 80, and neither of us enjoy flying, we have made the decision not to consider any further cruises as there are literally few places in the world we are interested in visiting. We are due to fly to Vancouver to visit or eldest son in May but we count ourselves so fortunate that we have enjoyed so many experiences and completed so much on most peoples 'bucket lists'

    One of the features of PB is the kindness of posters across the political divide and I would like to thank all the posters who made such kind comments and suggestions following my post

    Out of interest, have you done the Orient Express?
    No but we have done the Ghan and the blue train in South Africa
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    That is not a flattering picture of Amy. Makes her look like Forrest Gump's dumb kid sister.....
  • Mr. Mark, the Iowa caucus is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,065

    The Government has invoked quarantine civil contingency powers it seems:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51442314

    Yes, I think that holding off the pandemic as long as possible is the best plan. The doubling rate of both fatalities and cases is remaining at about 4 days. The vast majority are still in Wuhan, but it does seem only a matter of time.

    The epidemic will peak at some point, but we seem to still be in the steep rising phase.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    FPT

    Last night responding to a rather unkind quip from Tyson about our love of cruises I did say my wife and I have sailed the seven seas due to our love of seeing the world but also our lifetime passion for the sea and sailing. We went to the Artic (twice), Antarctic, South Georgia and the Falklands, sailed from Vancouver to Beijing (on Diamond Princess currently in quarantine in Japan) via Alaska, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the South China sea, several cruises to Norway, the Baltic, Iceland (twice) and Greenland. Furthermore several cruises in both the eastern and western med and the Canaries, and most recently transatlantic to Canada, New England and New York

    As my wife is now 80, and neither of us enjoy flying, we have made the decision not to consider any further cruises as there are literally few places in the world we are interested in visiting. We are due to fly to Vancouver to visit or eldest son in May but we count ourselves so fortunate that we have enjoyed so many experiences and completed so much on most peoples 'bucket lists'

    One of the features of PB is the kindness of posters across the political divide and I would like to thank all the posters who made such kind comments and suggestions following my post

    Out of interest, have you done the Orient Express?
    No but we have done the Ghan and the blue train in South Africa
    Very nice! My wife did the Orient Express with her previous husband and still talks fondly of it (although not him).
  • FPT

    Last night responding to a rather unkind quip from Tyson about our love of cruises I did say my wife and I have sailed the seven seas due to our love of seeing the world but also our lifetime passion for the sea and sailing. We went to the Artic (twice), Antarctic, South Georgia and the Falklands, sailed from Vancouver to Beijing (on Diamond Princess currently in quarantine in Japan) via Alaska, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the South China sea, several cruises to Norway, the Baltic, Iceland (twice) and Greenland. Furthermore several cruises in both the eastern and western med and the Canaries, and most recently transatlantic to Canada, New England and New York

    As my wife is now 80, and neither of us enjoy flying, we have made the decision not to consider any further cruises as there are literally few places in the world we are interested in visiting. We are due to fly to Vancouver to visit or eldest son in May but we count ourselves so fortunate that we have enjoyed so many experiences and completed so much on most peoples 'bucket lists'

    One of the features of PB is the kindness of posters across the political divide and I would like to thank all the posters who made such kind comments and suggestions following my post

    Out of interest, have you done the Orient Express?
    No but we have done the Ghan and the blue train in South Africa
    Very nice! My wife did the Orient Express with her previous husband and still talks fondly of it (although not him).
    Luxury train travel is a very memorable event
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,065

    FPT

    Last night responding to a rather unkind quip from Tyson about our love of cruises I did say my wife and I have sailed the seven seas due to our love of seeing the world but also our lifetime passion for the sea and sailing. We went to the Artic (twice), Antarctic, South Georgia and the Falklands, sailed from Vancouver to Beijing (on Diamond Princess currently in quarantine in Japan) via Alaska, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the South China sea, several cruises to Norway, the Baltic, Iceland (twice) and Greenland. Furthermore several cruises in both the eastern and western med and the Canaries, and most recently transatlantic to Canada, New England and New York

    As my wife is now 80, and neither of us enjoy flying, we have made the decision not to consider any further cruises as there are literally few places in the world we are interested in visiting. We are due to fly to Vancouver to visit or eldest son in May but we count ourselves so fortunate that we have enjoyed so many experiences and completed so much on most peoples 'bucket lists'

    One of the features of PB is the kindness of posters across the political divide and I would like to thank all the posters who made such kind comments and suggestions following my post

    Out of interest, have you done the Orient Express?
    No but we have done the Ghan and the blue train in South Africa
    I have travelled fairly extensively in my time, but am less keen as time goes on. Not just because of the carbon footprint, but mass tourism is swamping far too many destinations. All to often the experience is very unsatisfactory.

    Fortunately, the world comes to Leicester, saving me the bother!
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    People seem finally to have noticed that Andrew Yang is not going to win the Democratic nomination. He was a nice little earner for a long time.

    Hillary Clinton is still only last matched at 50 on Betfair for the nomination. She's basically the same price as Amy Klobuchar. Which is nuts.

    The David Millband effect. Intellectually baffling but fools and their money can be easily parted.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960

    Mr. Mark, the Iowa caucus is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.

    Unless you're the shadowy forces rigging it for the Lizard People, that is.

    Klobuchar doing better than expected = someone else doing worse. Who? Surely she's not taking votes off Warren in here backyard? Sanders is fishing in a completely different pond. Buttigieg means the moderate vote is fragmenting rather than consolidating, which is to not to her or Pete's advantage. If Biden then we're probably down to a clear final four (possibly plus Bloomberg).

  • In bullshitting to kids news, Sir Keir Starmer visited a school recently. Bloody Coalition/Conservatives, inventing homelessness.

    twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1226782588154580994

    Anecdata but based on round here (an outer London suburb) there was homelessness and then it all went away under Labour and came back under Cameron. So to that extent it is true.

    You know who else thinks so, besides Keir Starmer? Boris!
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-pledges-new-action-to-eliminate-homelessness-and-rough-sleeping
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Nigelb said:

    The Government has invoked quarantine civil contingency powers it seems:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51442314

    Presumably because they are starting to get seriously worried.

    At the risk of sounding brutal, the cruise ship outbreak is going to give us a far better idea of the proportion of mild cases which might go unrecognised out in the wider world, along with a more accurate mortality rate for this thing.
    There's also the case of the man in the ski chalet in France, who's infected people in France and the UK having caught the virus himself in Singapore. Suggestions are that this virus is much more contagious than reports out of China might suggest.

    Ironically, the lockdown and forced quarantine of millions of people in China, while pretty much unacceptable anywhere else in the world, may have helped them in containing the outbreak. Alternatively, the numbers reported by the Communist Pary might be made-up rubbish.
  • Mr. JohnL, I am content to agree that Sir Keir and Johnson are both full of shit.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,065
    Endillion said:

    Mr. Mark, the Iowa caucus is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.

    Unless you're the shadowy forces rigging it for the Lizard People, that is.

    Klobuchar doing better than expected = someone else doing worse. Who? Surely she's not taking votes off Warren in here backyard? Sanders is fishing in a completely different pond. Buttigieg means the moderate vote is fragmenting rather than consolidating, which is to not to her or Pete's advantage. If Biden then we're probably down to a clear final four (possibly plus Bloomberg).
    Amy is simply the best candidate. Moderately experienced and articulate, grounded in bread and butter middle class, middle America, issues, not doctrinaire. She can win in places that Bernie or Warren will not. That must count for something.
  • FPT

    Last night responding to a rather unkind quip from Tyson about our love of cruises I did say my wife and I have sailed the seven seas due to our love of seeing the world but also our lifetime passion for the sea and sailing. We went to the Artic (twice), Antarctic, South Georgia and the Falklands, sailed from Vancouver to Beijing (on Diamond Princess currently in quarantine in Japan) via Alaska, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the South China sea, several cruises to Norway, the Baltic, Iceland (twice) and Greenland. Furthermore several cruises in both the eastern and western med and the Canaries, and most recently transatlantic to Canada, New England and New York

    As my wife is now 80, and neither of us enjoy flying, we have made the decision not to consider any further cruises as there are literally few places in the world we are interested in visiting. We are due to fly to Vancouver to visit or eldest son in May but we count ourselves so fortunate that we have enjoyed so many experiences and completed so much on most peoples 'bucket lists'

    One of the features of PB is the kindness of posters across the political divide and I would like to thank all the posters who made such kind comments and suggestions following my post

    It’s only a short hop to Bergen but have you tried the Norwegian Coastal Voyage? Another one I know people enjoy is the Queen Mary to New York and back. The Queen Mary world cruise is dropping all its Asian ports (which is a nightmare for those who had planned to embark or disembark in Singapore or Hong Kong and sailing direct to Fremantle from Colombo - Pam Ayers is onboard and commenting in her inimitable style on Twitter.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    edited February 2020
    Endillion said:

    Mr. Mark, the Iowa caucus is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.

    Unless you're the shadowy forces rigging it for the Lizard People, that is.

    Klobuchar doing better than expected = someone else doing worse. Who? Surely she's not taking votes off Warren in here backyard? Sanders is fishing in a completely different pond. Buttigieg means the moderate vote is fragmenting rather than consolidating, which is to not to her or Pete's advantage. If Biden then we're probably down to a clear final four (possibly plus Bloomberg).
    The changes in the Emerson poll mainly had her taking votes of Mayor Pete, but I think this was mainly the short-term impact of the debate. The bigger picture is that she competes with everyone except Bernie: Biden if you want someone experienced and electable, Buttigieg if you want someone moderate and electable, Warren if you want a lady, or someone experienced, not way too left, and still able to remember what the sentence they started was about when they get to the end.

    Sanders 30% (-1)
    Buttigieg 20% (-4)
    Klobuchar 13% (+4)
    Warren 12% (+1)
    Biden 11% (0)
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    edited February 2020

    Mr. Mark, the Iowa caucus is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.

    You'd have known if you'd listened to @rcs1000...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    matt said:

    People seem finally to have noticed that Andrew Yang is not going to win the Democratic nomination. He was a nice little earner for a long time.

    Hillary Clinton is still only last matched at 50 on Betfair for the nomination. She's basically the same price as Amy Klobuchar. Which is nuts.

    The David Millband effect. Intellectually baffling but fools and their money can be easily parted.
    DM could still be laid in the 40-50 range, even after the December election and Corbyn's resignation announcement. No, I have no idea either.
  • tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    Bloomberg just keeps getting shorter and shorter. Below 4/1 for Dem nom today.

    I’m now not so much underwater on him as in a submersible somewhere near the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

    Gulp.

    I wonder if some of that money is his money.
    I was thinking the same, if not directly his money, part of the cost of running a campaign. His is the one campaign that can afford it.

    It seems off "feel" (I dont have the data) that the price drops are too regular, nothing dramatic each week, but virtually every week he is that bit shorter than the previous week, it doesnt "feel" like a natural market.

    Can anyone with access to betdata.io or similar see if there is anything in that?
  • FPT

    Last night responding to a rather unkind quip from Tyson about our love of cruises I did say my wife and I have sailed the seven seas due to our love of seeing the world but also our lifetime passion for the sea and sailing. We went to the Artic (twice), Antarctic, South Georgia and the Falklands, sailed from Vancouver to Beijing (on Diamond Princess currently in quarantine in Japan) via Alaska, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the South China sea, several cruises to Norway, the Baltic, Iceland (twice) and Greenland. Furthermore several cruises in both the eastern and western med and the Canaries, and most recently transatlantic to Canada, New England and New York

    As my wife is now 80, and neither of us enjoy flying, we have made the decision not to consider any further cruises as there are literally few places in the world we are interested in visiting. We are due to fly to Vancouver to visit or eldest son in May but we count ourselves so fortunate that we have enjoyed so many experiences and completed so much on most peoples 'bucket lists'

    One of the features of PB is the kindness of posters across the political divide and I would like to thank all the posters who made such kind comments and suggestions following my post

    It’s only a short hop to Bergen but have you tried the Norwegian Coastal Voyage? Another one I know people enjoy is the Queen Mary to New York and back. The Queen Mary world cruise is dropping all its Asian ports (which is a nightmare for those who had planned to embark or disembark in Singapore or Hong Kong and sailing direct to Fremantle from Colombo - Pam Ayers is onboard and commenting in her inimitable style on Twitter.
    Yes - we have visited Bergen several times, including on our honeymoon in 1964 and have sailed all the way to Honningsvag then across to the Svalbard Islands. Also we have just returned from a 24 day transatlantic cruise to Canada and New York
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    FPT

    Last night responding to a rather unkind quip from Tyson about our love of cruises I did say my wife and I have sailed the seven seas due to our love of seeing the world but also our lifetime passion for the sea and sailing. We went to the Artic (twice), Antarctic, South Georgia and the Falklands, sailed from Vancouver to Beijing (on Diamond Princess currently in quarantine in Japan) via Alaska, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the South China sea, several cruises to Norway, the Baltic, Iceland (twice) and Greenland. Furthermore several cruises in both the eastern and western med and the Canaries, and most recently transatlantic to Canada, New England and New York

    As my wife is now 80, and neither of us enjoy flying, we have made the decision not to consider any further cruises as there are literally few places in the world we are interested in visiting. We are due to fly to Vancouver to visit or eldest son in May but we count ourselves so fortunate that we have enjoyed so many experiences and completed so much on most peoples 'bucket lists'

    One of the features of PB is the kindness of posters across the political divide and I would like to thank all the posters who made such kind comments and suggestions following my post

    Out of interest, have you done the Orient Express?
    No but we have done the Ghan and the blue train in South Africa
    Very nice! My wife did the Orient Express with her previous husband and still talks fondly of it (although not him).
    Luxury train travel is a very memorable event
    We are planning a trip from Moscow to Vladivistok maybe next summer, on the Trans-Siberian Railway.

    There's way more planning involved, than I thought there would be, and lots of already known unknowns (such as Coronavirus, and Russian visas).
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    edited February 2020
    Good news regarding the fires in Australia.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-51439175

    "Sydney has been hit by its heaviest rain in 30 years, bringing widespread flooding but also putting out two massive bushfires in New South Wales."
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263

    Endillion said:

    Mr. Mark, the Iowa caucus is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.

    Unless you're the shadowy forces rigging it for the Lizard People, that is.

    Klobuchar doing better than expected = someone else doing worse. Who? Surely she's not taking votes off Warren in here backyard? Sanders is fishing in a completely different pond. Buttigieg means the moderate vote is fragmenting rather than consolidating, which is to not to her or Pete's advantage. If Biden then we're probably down to a clear final four (possibly plus Bloomberg).
    The changes in the Emerson poll mainly had her taking votes of Mayor Pete, but I think this was mainly the short-term impact of the debate. The bigger picture is that she competes with everyone except Bernie: Biden if you want someone experienced and electable, Buttigieg if you want someone moderate and electable, Warren if you want a lady, or someone experienced, not way too left, and still able to remember what the sentence they started was about when they get to the end.

    Sanders 30% (-1)
    Buttigieg 20% (-4)
    Klobuchar 13% (+4)
    Warren 12% (+1)
    Biden 11% (0)
    I think she's running for VP, although she may not know it herself. She'll get several of decent placings and offer the virtues that you cite to ameliorate whoever is at the top of the ticket.

    Sanders is benefiting from sidelining Warren while the centrists try this candidate and that without settling on anyone. He needs that to persist to Super Tuesday.

    By the way, I've been busy so missed the wave of warm thoughts for Big G. That sounds a wonderful cruising history and recollection must be so rich as to make fresh journeys less essential than simply enjoying all you've seen.
  • tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    Bloomberg just keeps getting shorter and shorter. Below 4/1 for Dem nom today.

    I’m now not so much underwater on him as in a submersible somewhere near the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

    Gulp.

    I wonder if some of that money is his money.
    I was thinking the same, if not directly his money, part of the cost of running a campaign. His is the one campaign that can afford it.

    It seems off "feel" (I dont have the data) that the price drops are too regular, nothing dramatic each week, but virtually every week he is that bit shorter than the previous week, it doesnt "feel" like a natural market.

    Can anyone with access to betdata.io or similar see if there is anything in that?
    No data, but the price is very hard to square with this from Nate Silver:

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primary-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,398

    FPT

    Last night responding to a rather unkind quip from Tyson about our love of cruises I did say my wife and I have sailed the seven seas due to our love of seeing the world but also our lifetime passion for the sea and sailing. We went to the Artic (twice), Antarctic, South Georgia and the Falklands, sailed from Vancouver to Beijing (on Diamond Princess currently in quarantine in Japan) via Alaska, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the South China sea, several cruises to Norway, the Baltic, Iceland (twice) and Greenland. Furthermore several cruises in both the eastern and western med and the Canaries, and most recently transatlantic to Canada, New England and New York

    As my wife is now 80, and neither of us enjoy flying, we have made the decision not to consider any further cruises as there are literally few places in the world we are interested in visiting. We are due to fly to Vancouver to visit or eldest son in May but we count ourselves so fortunate that we have enjoyed so many experiences and completed so much on most peoples 'bucket lists'

    One of the features of PB is the kindness of posters across the political divide and I would like to thank all the posters who made such kind comments and suggestions following my post

    Out of interest, have you done the Orient Express?
    No but we have done the Ghan and the blue train in South Africa
    How about a Northern Pacer?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Hmm, some troubling reports from China this morning from our people there. I think the situation there is far, far worse than the Chinese government is saying.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, some troubling reports from China this morning from our people there. I think the situation there is far, far worse than the Chinese government is saying.

    Well not much we can do about it and if the Chinese were not pushing through tough quarantine measures it would likely be even worse than that
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, some troubling reports from China this morning from our people there. I think the situation there is far, far worse than the Chinese government is saying.

    I suppose this may become apparent as more data become available outside of China, but I wonder if Chinese people are more at risk than other people?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    Foxy said:

    Endillion said:

    Mr. Mark, the Iowa caucus is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.

    Unless you're the shadowy forces rigging it for the Lizard People, that is.

    Klobuchar doing better than expected = someone else doing worse. Who? Surely she's not taking votes off Warren in here backyard? Sanders is fishing in a completely different pond. Buttigieg means the moderate vote is fragmenting rather than consolidating, which is to not to her or Pete's advantage. If Biden then we're probably down to a clear final four (possibly plus Bloomberg).
    Amy is simply the best candidate. Moderately experienced and articulate, grounded in bread and butter middle class, middle America, issues, not doctrinaire. She can win in places that Bernie or Warren will not. That must count for something.
    She is stunningly boring, so has the advantage of playing to the “each time they pick the opposite of the last time” theory of electoral choice.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    Bloomberg just keeps getting shorter and shorter. Below 4/1 for Dem nom today.

    I’m now not so much underwater on him as in a submersible somewhere near the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

    Gulp.

    I wonder if some of that money is his money.
    I was thinking the same, if not directly his money, part of the cost of running a campaign. His is the one campaign that can afford it.

    It seems off "feel" (I dont have the data) that the price drops are too regular, nothing dramatic each week, but virtually every week he is that bit shorter than the previous week, it doesnt "feel" like a natural market.

    Can anyone with access to betdata.io or similar see if there is anything in that?
    It's certainly of note that there's way more liquidity on Betfair for Bloomberg, than for any other candidate in the Dem Nominee market. Someone's putting a lot of money on him, that's for sure.

    I still don't know if he's serious about running himself, or is just going to throw a few billion at whoever does win. My best guess is that he'll enter if it looks like Sanders or Warren getting the nom, and will pull back if it looks like one of the more moderate candidates.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, some troubling reports from China this morning from our people there. I think the situation there is far, far worse than the Chinese government is saying.

    That's about as likely as John Bercow wanting a Peerage.
  • Sandpit said:

    FPT

    Last night responding to a rather unkind quip from Tyson about our love of cruises I did say my wife and I have sailed the seven seas due to our love of seeing the world but also our lifetime passion for the sea and sailing. We went to the Artic (twice), Antarctic, South Georgia and the Falklands, sailed from Vancouver to Beijing (on Diamond Princess currently in quarantine in Japan) via Alaska, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the South China sea, several cruises to Norway, the Baltic, Iceland (twice) and Greenland. Furthermore several cruises in both the eastern and western med and the Canaries, and most recently transatlantic to Canada, New England and New York

    As my wife is now 80, and neither of us enjoy flying, we have made the decision not to consider anveryy further cruises as there are literally few places in the world we are interested in visiting. We are due to fly to Vancouver to visit or eldest son in May but we count ourselves so fortunate that we have enjoyed so many experiences and completed so much on most peoples 'bucket lists'

    One of the features of PB is the kindness of posters across the political divide and I would like to thank all the posters who made such kind comments and suggestions following my post

    Out of interest, have you done the Orient Express?
    No but we have done the Ghan and the blue train in South Africa
    Very nice! My wife did the Orient Express with her previous husband and still talks fondly of it (although not him).
    Luxury train travel is a very memorable event
    We are planning a trip from Moscow to Vladivistok maybe next summer, on the Trans-Siberian Railway.

    There's way more planning involved, than I thought there would be, and lots of already known unknowns (such as Coronavirus, and Russian visas).
    Very interesting trip
  • kicorsekicorse Posts: 431
    edited February 2020
    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    edited February 2020

    FPT

    Last night responding to a rather unkind quip from Tyson about our love of cruises I did say my wife and I have sailed the seven seas due to our love of seeing the world but also our lifetime passion for the sea and sailing. We went to the Artic (twice), Antarctic, South Georgia and the Falklands, sailed from Vancouver to Beijing (on Diamond Princess currently in quarantine in Japan) via Alaska, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the South China sea, several cruises to Norway, the Baltic, Iceland (twice) and Greenland. Furthermore several cruises in both the eastern and western med and the Canaries, and most recently transatlantic to Canada, New England and New York

    As my wife is now 80, and neither of us enjoy flying, we have made the decision not to consider any further cruises as there are literally few places in the world we are interested in visiting. We are due to fly to Vancouver to visit or eldest son in May but we count ourselves so fortunate that we have enjoyed so many experiences and completed so much on most peoples 'bucket lists'

    One of the features of PB is the kindness of posters across the political divide and I would like to thank all the posters who made such kind comments and suggestions following my post

    Out of interest, have you done the Orient Express?
    No but we have done the Ghan and the blue train in South Africa
    Very nice! My wife did the Orient Express with her previous husband and still talks fondly of it (although not him).
    Luxury train travel is a very memorable event
    You don’t even need to go luxury - there are plenty of wonderful European city breaks accessible by train either by connection from Eurostar or from Holland after an overnight cabin on the Stena ferry (the world’s largest ferry). Eurostar first class does come at a premium but first class on most European high speed trains only costs marginally more, if booked in advance, and offers a good level of comfort and service.

    Arranging European rail holidays is easily done yourself, using the various rail ticket and hotel sites, or there are specialist companies such as Rail Europe or Railbookers who will put together an entire package for you.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881
    You can back Warren at 80 for president and lay her at 25 for dem nomination.
    That's a nice combo.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, some troubling reports from China this morning from our people there. I think the situation there is far, far worse than the Chinese government is saying.

    I am not a fan of amateur financial commentary on here or elsewhere, but I am astonished at the lack of reaction of the markets to date. I am pretty confident they will be well south of here in a month's time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574
    edited February 2020
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Government has invoked quarantine civil contingency powers it seems:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51442314

    Presumably because they are starting to get seriously worried.

    At the risk of sounding brutal, the cruise ship outbreak is going to give us a far better idea of the proportion of mild cases which might go unrecognised out in the wider world, along with a more accurate mortality rate for this thing.
    There's also the case of the man in the ski chalet in France, who's infected people in France and the UK having caught the virus himself in Singapore. Suggestions are that this virus is much more contagious than reports out of China might suggest.

    Ironically, the lockdown and forced quarantine of millions of people in China, while pretty much unacceptable anywhere else in the world, may have helped them in containing the outbreak. Alternatively, the numbers reported by the Communist Pary might be made-up rubbish.
    I'm not sure they are rubbish - given the extent of the outbreak, it's quite possible that their local health system is simply overwhelmed.
    On the other hand, I am extremely sceptical of the figure which claim a steady drop in the number of new cases outside of Wuhan over the last few days. I am no epidemiologist, but they imply a successful quarantining effect on a mass scale which simply does not seem credible for something so infectious. Guess we'll know one way or another within a week or so.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, some troubling reports from China this morning from our people there. I think the situation there is far, far worse than the Chinese government is saying.

    Quelle suprise.
  • Sandpit said:

    FPT

    Last night responding to a rather unkind quip from Tyson about our love of cruises I did say my wife and I have sailed the seven seas due to our love of seeing the world but also our lifetime passion for the sea and sailing. We went to the Artic (twice), Antarctic, South Georgia and the Falklands, sailed from Vancouver to Beijing (on Diamond Princess currently in quarantine in Japan) via Alaska, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the South China sea, several cruises to Norway, the Baltic, Iceland (twice) and Greenland. Furthermore several cruises in both the eastern and western med and the Canaries, and most recently transatlantic to Canada, New England and New York

    As my wife is now 80, and neither of us enjoy flying, we have made the decision not to consider any further cruises as there are literally few places in the world we are interested in visiting. We are due to fly to Vancouver to visit or eldest son in May but we count ourselves so fortunate that we have enjoyed so many experiences and completed so much on most peoples 'bucket lists'

    One of the features of PB is the kindness of posters across the political divide and I would like to thank all the posters who made such kind comments and suggestions following my post

    Out of interest, have you done the Orient Express?
    No but we have done the Ghan and the blue train in South Africa
    Very nice! My wife did the Orient Express with her previous husband and still talks fondly of it (although not him).
    Luxury train travel is a very memorable event
    We are planning a trip from Moscow to Vladivistok maybe next summer, on the Trans-Siberian Railway.

    There's way more planning involved, than I thought there would be, and lots of already known unknowns (such as Coronavirus, and Russian visas).
    Different friends who have done Russia report that visas from here can be a bit of a pain, but also that Russia has some dramatic destinations but without a great deal in any one city: it is a lot of day trips more than a day apart. YMMV.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, some troubling reports from China this morning from our people there. I think the situation there is far, far worse than the Chinese government is saying.

    That's about as likely as John Bercow wanting a Peerage.
    Do u mean the situation can't be worse or the Chinese Government can't be honest?
  • kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    A more traditionally British take.

    https://twitter.com/holland_tom/status/1226765138977591296?s=20
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Government has invoked quarantine civil contingency powers it seems:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51442314

    Presumably because they are starting to get seriously worried.

    At the risk of sounding brutal, the cruise ship outbreak is going to give us a far better idea of the proportion of mild cases which might go unrecognised out in the wider world, along with a more accurate mortality rate for this thing.
    There's also the case of the man in the ski chalet in France, who's infected people in France and the UK having caught the virus himself in Singapore. Suggestions are that this virus is much more contagious than reports out of China might suggest.

    Ironically, the lockdown and forced quarantine of millions of people in China, while pretty much unacceptable anywhere else in the world, may have helped them in containing the outbreak. Alternatively, the numbers reported by the Communist Pary might be made-up rubbish.
    I'm not sure they are rubbish - given the extent of the outbreak, it's quite possible that their local health system is simply overwhelmed.
    On the other hand, I am extremely sceptical of the figure which claim a steady drop in the number of new cases outside of Wuhan over the last few days. I am no epidemiologist, but they imply a successful quarantining effect on a mass scale which simply does not seem credible for something so infectious. Guess we'll know one way or another within a week or so.
    Indeed, it's very difficult when there's so little information coming out of China. You are right that the next week is key to the medium term forecasting of the virus disruption.

    Their New Year holiday was officially extended until today, we'll quickly find out how many people are actually back at work and how many are staying quarantined. My guess is that those working in international finance have been told to work from home and act normal to the outside world, and pretty much no-one else is going back to work. There will be a serious drop in China's GDP as a result.

    Oil is way down in the past month, now hovering around $50 a barrel with OPEC struggling to get production cuts agreed quickly. Toyko, HK and Singapore stock markets are all down today, although only by half a percent.
  • IanB2 said:

    FPT

    Last night responding to a rather unkind quip from Tyson about our love of cruises I did say my wife and I have sailed the seven seas due to our love of seeing the world but also our lifetime passion for the sea and sailing. We went to the Artic (twice), Antarctic, South Georgia and the Falklands, sailed from Vancouver to Beijing (on Diamond Princess currently in quarantine in Japan) via Alaska, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the South China sea, several cruises to Norway, the Baltic, Iceland (twice) and Greenland. Furthermore several cruises in both the eastern and western med and the Canaries, and most recently transatlantic to Canada, New England and New York

    As my wife is now 80, and neither of us enjoy flying, we have made the decision not to consider any further cruises as there are literally few places in the world we are interested in visiting. We are due to fly to Vancouver to visit or eldest son in May but we count ourselves so fortunate that we have enjoyed so many experiences and completed so much on most peoples 'bucket lists'

    One of the features of PB is the kindness of posters across the political divide and I would like to thank all the posters who made such kind comments and suggestions following my post

    Out of interest, have you done the Orient Express?
    No but we have done the Ghan and the blue train in South Africa
    Very nice! My wife did the Orient Express with her previous husband and still talks fondly of it (although not him).
    Luxury train travel is a very memorable event
    You don’t even need to go luxury - there are plenty of wonderful European city breaks accessible by train either by connection from Eurostar or from Holland after an overnight cabin on the Stena ferry (the world’s largest ferry). Eurostar first class does come at a premium but first class on most European high speed trains only costs marginally more, if booked in advance, and offers a good level of comfort and service.

    Arranging European rail holidays is easily done yourself, using the various rail ticket and hotel sites, or there are specialist companies such as Rail Europe or Railbookers who will put together an entire package for you.
    Yes absolutely
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,183
    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:


    Out of interest, have you done the Orient Express?
    No but we have done the Ghan and the blue train in South Africa
    Very nice! My wife did the Orient Express with her previous husband and still talks fondly of it (although not him).
    Luxury train travel is a very memorable event
    We are planning a trip from Moscow to Vladivistok maybe next summer, on the Trans-Siberian Railway.

    There's way more planning involved, than I thought there would be, and lots of already known unknowns (such as Coronavirus, and Russian visas).
    Different friends who have done Russia report that visas from here can be a bit of a pain, but also that Russia has some dramatic destinations but without a great deal in any one city: it is a lot of day trips more than a day apart. YMMV.
    That sounds similar to what I've heard so far, so the plan is to hop off at each major city on the route, then get the next train a day or two later. Thankfully the missus speaks Russian which helps with the organising - on the other hand she has a Ukranian passport, which is causing a few local political difficulties. The major issue is that the first class cabins on the scheduled trains need to be booked further in advance than flights or visas can be arranged, and finding insurance that covers things like denial of visas is somewhat difficult in a changing political environment. Hopefully we'll get there in the end!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Obviously it's from a Japanese company so that has its own agenda, but I was told this morning that as many as 5x more people are infected and maybe as many as 10x more people have died from the plague and from secondary infections resulting from the the plague.

    The ease at which the plague seems to pass from person to person in quarantined areas speaks to a much higher infection rate, at least.
  • Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    rkrkrk said:

    You can back Warren at 80 for president and lay her at 25 for dem nomination.
    That's a nice combo.

    if you wish to stand a good chance of losing two bets in a row, for sure.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,084

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    That's interesting - how long has it been standing in solidarity for?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    Top of the morning all. And so it is, so it is.

    Amazing Irish results. And great tips from @Richard_Nabavi and @TheGreenMachine. (Plus from @Nigelb on Parasite oscar while we're at it.) I followed and am duly in the money. What a bunch of shrewdies on here. You just need to do what people say and you clean up. What's next?

    But more importantly, Ireland, the SF surge and what it means. Which is pretty clear IMO. The Left Argument is rampant. It is winning Here There & Everywhere.

    Belated rational reaction to the Global Bank Crash and the Austerity inflicted in order to bail out the feckless capitalist culprits? I think so. Bernie taking down Trump is the next shoe to drop. And of course the biggest. Followed by the UK once the Brexit and "Boris" distraction is over.

    "Three things cannot be long hidden. The Sun, the Moon, and the Truth."

    People are waking up.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
  • kinabalu said:

    Top of the morning all. And so it is, so it is.

    Amazing Irish results. And great tips from @Richard_Nabavi and @TheGreenMachine. (Plus from @Nigelb on Parasite oscar while we're at it.) I followed and am duly in the money. What a bunch of shrewdies on here. You just need to do what people say and you clean up. What's next?

    But more importantly, Ireland, the SF surge and what it means. Which is pretty clear IMO. The Left Argument is rampant. It is winning Here There & Everywhere.

    Belated rational reaction to the Global Bank Crash and the Austerity inflicted in order to bail out the feckless capitalist culprits? I think so. Bernie taking down Trump is the next shoe to drop. And of course the biggest. Followed by the UK once the Brexit and "Boris" distraction is over.

    "Three things cannot be long hidden. The Sun, the Moon, and the Truth."

    People are waking up.

    You've been overdoing it with the cough syrup again, haven't you.
  • @kinabalu

    No worries, only problem is I won't win anything as I bet 1917 and Joe biden fs.
  • If he's staring in disbelief at that comb over, fair enough.

    https://twitter.com/UKDemockery/status/1226374477019275264?s=20
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Animal_pb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Top of the morning all. And so it is, so it is.

    Amazing Irish results. And great tips from @Richard_Nabavi and @TheGreenMachine. (Plus from @Nigelb on Parasite oscar while we're at it.) I followed and am duly in the money. What a bunch of shrewdies on here. You just need to do what people say and you clean up. What's next?

    But more importantly, Ireland, the SF surge and what it means. Which is pretty clear IMO. The Left Argument is rampant. It is winning Here There & Everywhere.

    Belated rational reaction to the Global Bank Crash and the Austerity inflicted in order to bail out the feckless capitalist culprits? I think so. Bernie taking down Trump is the next shoe to drop. And of course the biggest. Followed by the UK once the Brexit and "Boris" distraction is over.

    "Three things cannot be long hidden. The Sun, the Moon, and the Truth."

    People are waking up.

    You've been overdoing it with the cough syrup again, haven't you.
    Hot takes based on squinting at the evidence which suits the hot taker are the best hot takes.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    edited February 2020
    kinabalu said:

    Top of the morning all. And so it is, so it is.

    Amazing Irish results. And great tips from @Richard_Nabavi and @TheGreenMachine. (Plus from @Nigelb on Parasite oscar while we're at it.) I followed and am duly in the money. What a bunch of shrewdies on here. You just need to do what people say and you clean up. What's next?

    But more importantly, Ireland, the SF surge and what it means. Which is pretty clear IMO. The Left Argument is rampant. It is winning Here There & Everywhere.

    Belated rational reaction to the Global Bank Crash and the Austerity inflicted in order to bail out the feckless capitalist culprits? I think so. Bernie taking down Trump is the next shoe to drop. And of course the biggest. Followed by the UK once the Brexit and "Boris" distraction is over.

    "Three things cannot be long hidden. The Sun, the Moon, and the Truth."

    People are waking up.

    It was Labour who bailed out the bankers in the UK while letting the factories and mines shut down.

    12/12 was ultimately the consequence of that.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
    I have never found it easy to reconcile Nationalism and EU membership in a coherent way.

    With the EU harmonising and moving in one direction it appears nigh on lunacy to attain independence to then relinquish significant and growing parts of your autonomy to a centralising federal power.
  • kicorsekicorse Posts: 431
    edited February 2020

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Yeah. Normally, I wouldn't be so pedantic as to correct that, but it was relevant in the context of the nature of British commentary on Irish politics.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,398
    "Under proportional representation, the party with the most votes won't get the most seats"

    STV: Nonsense on stilts.
  • Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
    Yep, they finally worked out the difference between a union of consent and one enforced.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
    Yep, they finally worked out the difference between a union of consent and one enforced.
    No: 55%
    Yes: 45%

    You're welcome.
  • philiph said:

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
    I have never found it easy to reconcile Nationalism and EU membership in a coherent way.

    With the EU harmonising and moving in one direction it appears nigh on lunacy to attain independence to then relinquish significant and growing parts of your autonomy to a centralising federal power.
    So stick with the centralising power that doesn't even have federalism to ameliorate its domineering instincts.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,084

    FPT

    Last night responding to a rather unkind quip from Tyson about our love of cruises I did say my wife and I have sailed the seven seas due to our love of seeing the world but also our lifetime passion for the sea and sailing. We went to the Artic (twice), Antarctic, South Georgia and the Falklands, sailed from Vancouver to Beijing (on Diamond Princess currently in quarantine in Japan) via Alaska, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the South China sea, several cruises to Norway, the Baltic, Iceland (twice) and Greenland. Furthermore several cruises in both the eastern and western med and the Canaries, and most recently transatlantic to Canada, New England and New York

    As my wife is now 80, and neither of us enjoy flying, we have made the decision not to consider any further cruises as there are literally few places in the world we are interested in visiting. We are due to fly to Vancouver to visit or eldest son in May but we count ourselves so fortunate that we have enjoyed so many experiences and completed so much on most peoples 'bucket lists'

    One of the features of PB is the kindness of posters across the political divide and I would like to thank all the posters who made such kind comments and suggestions following my post

    My mum did various river cruises (Rhine etc) and trips with one of her oldest friends in her last few years, including a coach tour round Ireland.

    I still don't understand how it happened, but she went into a walking stick shop in Ireland and managed to get a BOGOF. Featured prominently in the eulogy.

    I am considering arranging them like a pair of swords somewhere.

    The friend, in her 80s, still goes to Sheffield United every Saturday and does all day Scrabble competitions.

    All the best.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,784
    edited February 2020
    MaxPB said:

    Obviously it's from a Japanese company so that has its own agenda, but I was told this morning that as many as 5x more people are infected and maybe as many as 10x more people have died from the plague and from secondary infections resulting from the the plague.

    The ease at which the plague seems to pass from person to person in quarantined areas speaks to a much higher infection rate, at least.

    I'm keeping some eye on the Wikipedia noted cases specifically as reported by Western nations. The first 72 cases as of yesterday don't yet seem inconsistent with Chinese reports - the earliest cases are now starting to be discharged with around 10 out of hospital, and there is one confirmed fatality.

    Perhaps Chinese case count is lagging the reality, but unless there is an outright conspiracy extending to multiple Western nations, we should increasingly be able to ascertain the true picture from places other than China.
  • kicorsekicorse Posts: 431

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
    In terms of the binary question of "In or Out", yes, but they have no enthusiasm for it, for the typical reasons of left wing parties.
  • Mr. Divvie, how is the UK centralising when it recently devolved power to Holyrood?

    How is the EU not centralising when it continually shifts powers from nation-states to Brussels?
  • Mr. Kicorse, enthusiasm doesn't really matter, though.

    A vote to stay in or leave the EU isn't weighted by enthusiasm. The decision alone is what counts.
  • tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
    Yep, they finally worked out the difference between a union of consent and one enforced.
    No: 55%
    Yes: 45%

    You're welcome.
    Skipping over the 'you're welcome' thing, one of the more dweeby constructions on the internet, can you remind me of when the UK had to ask permission to have a referendum on continuing EU membership, and whether that permission was at any time refused?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
    Yep, they finally worked out the difference between a union of consent and one enforced.
    No: 55%
    Yes: 45%

    You're welcome.
    Skipping over the 'you're welcome' thing, one of the more dweeby constructions on the internet, can you remind me of when the UK had to ask permission to have a referendum on continuing EU membership, and whether that permission was at any time refused?
    So, when (and I hope it is when), Scotland becomes an independent self-governing state, tell me how exactly you will legislate for every conceivable political entity within Scotland to hold an independence referendum without the consent of the Scottish government.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    philiph said:

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
    I have never found it easy to reconcile Nationalism and EU membership in a coherent way.

    With the EU harmonising and moving in one direction it appears nigh on lunacy to attain independence to then relinquish significant and growing parts of your autonomy to a centralising federal power.
    So stick with the centralising power that doesn't even have federalism to ameliorate its domineering instincts.
    No, be independent.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,765
    I'm a bit confused about aspects of this virus. According to the Hopkins stats, which are largely based on China stats, 3497 have recovered and 910 have died. That suggests to me a mortality rate of 26% and yet we are being constantly assured that the mortality rate is about 2% (a virologist on R5 today said 2-4%). In fairness the figures outside China support that with very few deaths.

    So is the number of infected approximately 10x the official figure or is something else going on? Has the quality of Chinese medical care had an effect? It is troubling that the number of recovered seems so low more than 2 months after this first started to hit serious numbers. A virus that leaves people needing intense medical care for multiple weeks has scary resource implications.
  • philiph said:

    philiph said:

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
    I have never found it easy to reconcile Nationalism and EU membership in a coherent way.

    With the EU harmonising and moving in one direction it appears nigh on lunacy to attain independence to then relinquish significant and growing parts of your autonomy to a centralising federal power.
    So stick with the centralising power that doesn't even have federalism to ameliorate its domineering instincts.
    No, be independent.
    Indeed. Properly independent.

    I believe in proper independence. I wonder what proportion of Scots do?
  • kicorsekicorse Posts: 431
    philiph said:

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
    I have never found it easy to reconcile Nationalism and EU membership in a coherent way.

    With the EU harmonising and moving in one direction it appears nigh on lunacy to attain independence to then relinquish significant and growing parts of your autonomy to a centralising federal power.
    Well, Sinn Fein aren't enthusiastic about the EU, but nationalists who are (e.g. SNP) wouldn't accept your characterisation of it. So they don't need to reconcile that characterisation with their nationalism.

    As for Irish nationalists, any constitutional power that they cede to the EU is done via an Irish referendum, and they can leave whenever they want without bloodshed. So there are some small and subtle differences with Ireland's historic relationship with the UK....
  • philiph said:

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
    I have never found it easy to reconcile Nationalism and EU membership in a coherent way.

    With the EU harmonising and moving in one direction it appears nigh on lunacy to attain independence to then relinquish significant and growing parts of your autonomy to a centralising federal power.
    So stick with the centralising power that doesn't even have federalism to ameliorate its domineering instincts.
    Except that you do have federalism and devolved government.
  • philiph said:

    philiph said:

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
    I have never found it easy to reconcile Nationalism and EU membership in a coherent way.

    With the EU harmonising and moving in one direction it appears nigh on lunacy to attain independence to then relinquish significant and growing parts of your autonomy to a centralising federal power.
    So stick with the centralising power that doesn't even have federalism to ameliorate its domineering instincts.
    No, be independent.
    Indeed. Properly independent.

    I believe in proper independence. I wonder what proportion of Scots do?
    Properly independent, like North Korea (let's ignore China's influence for now) or Albania of a few years back?
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
    Yep, they finally worked out the difference between a union of consent and one enforced.
    No: 55%
    Yes: 45%

    You're welcome.
    Skipping over the 'you're welcome' thing, one of the more dweeby constructions on the internet, can you remind me of when the UK had to ask permission to have a referendum on continuing EU membership, and whether that permission was at any time refused?
    So, when (and I hope it is when), Scotland becomes an independent self-governing state, tell me how exactly you will legislate for every conceivable political entity within Scotland to hold an independence referendum without the consent of the Scottish government.
    Love a whiff of reductio ad absurdum in the morning. Get back to me when you have an example of one those political entities wanting independence from Scotland (and therefore the UK).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Endillion said:

    Mr. Mark, the Iowa caucus is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.

    Unless you're the shadowy forces rigging it for the Lizard People, that is.

    Klobuchar doing better than expected = someone else doing worse. Who? Surely she's not taking votes off Warren in here backyard? Sanders is fishing in a completely different pond. Buttigieg means the moderate vote is fragmenting rather than consolidating, which is to not to her or Pete's advantage. If Biden then we're probably down to a clear final four (possibly plus Bloomberg).
    Amy is simply the best candidate. Moderately experienced and articulate, grounded in bread and butter middle class, middle America, issues, not doctrinaire. She can win in places that Bernie or Warren will not. That must count for something.
    She is stunningly boring, so has the advantage of playing to the “each time they pick the opposite of the last time” theory of electoral choice.
    Hillary Clinton was stunningly boring. Did you ever hear her narrate her autobiography?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    edited February 2020
    Animal_pb said:

    You've been overdoing it with the cough syrup again, haven't you.

    Not at all! Couple of Gold Blends and nothing else.

    Point is, the natural reaction to cowboy bankers crashing the economy was a lurch to the Left but this has been delayed by distractions such as MPs expenses and nativist concerns over immigration, which various ideologues and careerists of the Right, prime among them our PM - "Boris" - have skillfully exploited to gain power. They have manufactured the bogeyman of a "left liberal elite" and successfully (for now) diverted the WWC down the path of Brexit and vague and vacuous intentions of "unleashing our national potential".

    But the key bits in the above are "delayed" and "for now".
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....

    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
    Yep, they finally worked out the difference between a union of consent and one enforced.
    No: 55%
    Yes: 45%

    You're welcome.
    Skipping over the 'you're welcome' thing, one of the more dweeby constructions on the internet, can you remind me of when the UK had to ask permission to have a referendum on continuing EU membership, and whether that permission was at any time refused?
    So, when (and I hope it is when), Scotland becomes an independent self-governing state, tell me how exactly you will legislate for every conceivable political entity within Scotland to hold an independence referendum without the consent of the Scottish government.
    Love a whiff of reductio ad absurdum in the morning. Get back to me when you have an example of one those political entities wanting independence from Scotland (and therefore the UK).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_status_of_Orkney,_Shetland_and_the_Western_Isles
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,065
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Endillion said:

    Mr. Mark, the Iowa caucus is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.

    Unless you're the shadowy forces rigging it for the Lizard People, that is.

    Klobuchar doing better than expected = someone else doing worse. Who? Surely she's not taking votes off Warren in here backyard? Sanders is fishing in a completely different pond. Buttigieg means the moderate vote is fragmenting rather than consolidating, which is to not to her or Pete's advantage. If Biden then we're probably down to a clear final four (possibly plus Bloomberg).
    Amy is simply the best candidate. Moderately experienced and articulate, grounded in bread and butter middle class, middle America, issues, not doctrinaire. She can win in places that Bernie or Warren will not. That must count for something.
    She is stunningly boring, so has the advantage of playing to the “each time they pick the opposite of the last time” theory of electoral choice.
    The reality is that boring is good.

    Far too many countries electorates seem to prefer shallow showy extroverts with the attention span of sugared up toddlers. Politics is not entertainment!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    I think the internet could make the coronavirus situation much worse than it otherwise would have been, through the spread of false rumours, misinformation, etc. Anyone agree?
  • philiph said:

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
    I have never found it easy to reconcile Nationalism and EU membership in a coherent way.

    With the EU harmonising and moving in one direction it appears nigh on lunacy to attain independence to then relinquish significant and growing parts of your autonomy to a centralising federal power.
    So stick with the centralising power that doesn't even have federalism to ameliorate its domineering instincts.
    Except that you do have federalism and devolved government.
    Are you honestly stating that the UK is a federal state? Jeezo, that puts' ourselves alone' in the shade.
  • DavidL said:

    I'm a bit confused about aspects of this virus. According to the Hopkins stats, which are largely based on China stats, 3497 have recovered and 910 have died. That suggests to me a mortality rate of 26% and yet we are being constantly assured that the mortality rate is about 2% (a virologist on R5 today said 2-4%). In fairness the figures outside China support that with very few deaths.

    So is the number of infected approximately 10x the official figure or is something else going on? Has the quality of Chinese medical care had an effect? It is troubling that the number of recovered seems so low more than 2 months after this first started to hit serious numbers. A virus that leaves people needing intense medical care for multiple weeks has scary resource implications.

    You are forgetting the people who are suffering from the disease but have neither got better nor died (yet).
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    kicorse said:

    Much of it is, but there's plenty there for Irish journalists to laugh at.

    For one thing, Sinn Fein does not mean "ourselves alone"!

    For another, most people in Ireland were expecting FG to lose, and the more surprising thing is that it was SF and not FF who surged at their expense.

    And although the article is right to point out that Brexit was nearly a non-issue, I'm sure Irish journalists will (perhaps a little unfairly) say that it's typically British to expect that it would have been the main issue.

    Oh yes, and there's talking about SF serving up "Corbynesque policies" as if they've suddenly taken a lurch to the left, and that they've been inspired to do that by a British party....
    Sinn Fein doesn't mean 'Ourselves Alone' - doesn't it? What does it mean? If that's a misconception it's a fairly common one amongst British people who are passably well-informed about Irish politics.
    'The phrase "Sinn Féin" is Irish for "Ourselves" or "We Ourselves", although it is frequently mistranslated as "ourselves alone" (from "Sinn Féin Amháin", an early-20th-century slogan. See also Sinn Féin ). The meaning of the name itself is an assertion of Irish national sovereignty and self-determination; i.e., the Irish people governing themselves, rather than being part of a political union with Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) under the Westminster Parliament.'

    The Scottish Nationalist Party stands in solidarity.
    Sinn Fein is FOR the EU, though, IIRC.
    Yep, they finally worked out the difference between a union of consent and one enforced.
    No: 55%
    Yes: 45%

    You're welcome.
    Skipping over the 'you're welcome' thing, one of the more dweeby constructions on the internet, can you remind me of when the UK had to ask permission to have a referendum on continuing EU membership, and whether that permission was at any time refused?
    Well, they didn't seem very happy about us having one on the Lisbon Treaty.

    Ditto the French and the Dutch, after what happened in the EU Constitution referendums.

    And they forced the Irish to keep going until they said yes.

    So while I know that isn't quite what you asked, it still doesn't feel like the EU compares favourably with the UK on this.
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