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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864

    DavidL said:

    Next months trial just might move the dial.

    I don't think it will much if it is just Salmond. There is a lot of Scotland shame inherent in Scottish nationalism. Salmond turning out to be a perv just increases that bloody minded sort of angry hurt feeling. If it brings Sturgeon down that's a different matter. That's the team losing its star striker.
    What people tolerated and covered up for Salmond is going to be much more interesting than what he is alleged to have done. How much of that Nicola’s Lord Advocate allows to come out will be key.
  • I'm feeling a little better about my strategy of laying the old guys in this Dem nomination.

    I didn't know you had a thing for old guys...
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited February 2020

    eadric said:

    MaxPB said:

    So what happens if the Shinners win in Ireland?

    Probably the pressure for a border poll becomes inevitable.

    The DUP really did shit the bed when they backed Brexit.
    No, it won’t. Jesus Remainers have lost the plot. Even sensible ones like you.
    The Irish are about to put the political wing of the IRA into government, if you don't think that will have an impact in Ireland then you really are naive.
    No they aren't. SF aren't running enough candidates to get into government with a broad left coalition, and neither FF or FG will go into coalition with them. 2nd election immediately is looking by far the most likely option at the moment. I remember when you used to make fun of the bed-wetters, not be one of them.
  • MaxPB said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    MaxPB said:

    So what happens if the Shinners win in Ireland?

    Probably the pressure for a border poll becomes inevitable.

    The DUP really did shit the bed when they backed Brexit.
    No, it won’t. Jesus Remainers have lost the plot. Even sensible ones like you.
    The Irish are about to put the political wing of the IRA into government, if you don't think that will have an impact in Ireland then you really are naive.
    Ireland is St Augustine. Give me unity, Lord, but, ah, not quite yet. Ireland can’t afford Ulster, everyone is terrified of a return to violence, and Brexit needs to bed in for 5-10 years before anyone can make a sound judgement on the best options ahead.

    Varadkar said this himself, and he’s right.
    He's not going to be the Taoiseach for very much longer though.
    To think some people said Varadkar was avowedly anti British.

    Wait until we have a Sinn Fein Taoiseach, Varadkar will look like a Unionist in comparison.
  • eadric said:

    MaxPB said:

    So what happens if the Shinners win in Ireland?

    Probably the pressure for a border poll becomes inevitable.

    The DUP really did shit the bed when they backed Brexit.
    No, it won’t. Jesus Remainers have lost the plot. Even sensible ones like you.
    The Irish are about to put the political wing of the IRA into government, if you don't think that will have an impact in Ireland then you really are naive.
    They are already in government in Northern Ireland...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,484
    Regarding Scotland, it will be a key sign that the UK Government is taking Scotland seriously if they strengthen the Scotland office, as I saw floated in an article recently. I also don't see much point in it being hidden politely behind a New Town facade in Edinburgh. Aberdeen would be a good place. I believe there is some space in Marischal College.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Next months trial just might move the dial.

    I don't think it will much if it is just Salmond. There is a lot of Scotland shame inherent in Scottish nationalism. Salmond turning out to be a perv just increases that bloody minded sort of angry hurt feeling. If it brings Sturgeon down that's a different matter. That's the team losing its star striker.
    What people tolerated and covered up for Salmond is going to be much more interesting than what he is alleged to have done. How much of that Nicola’s Lord Advocate allows to come out will be key.
    I would have thought as a pro you would have popped in a 'might have' between 'people' and 'tolerated'.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    The Saj has seriously underperformed to date. Being so precipitate on HS2 was unwise unless he had cover from No 10. His Autumn statement was just embarrassing. A lot depends on his budget. He really has to seize the moment and epitomise the Boris revolution.
    Sajid is the most uncharismatic, untelegenic politician ever. He makes Teresa May look like a young, more compelling Marlon Brando.

    It’s a shame cause I think he’s smart and he has a great and inspiring backstory. He’s an impressive dude CV-wise. But he’s so wooden he may get the chop, daboomtish

    The Tories need more persuasive voices, and he doesn’t cut it.
    Since becoming Chancellor , he has come across as surprisingly dim - Javid does not look the part at all and has little natural authority.With hindsight, I am finding it difficult to understand why Stephen Crabbe supported him for the leadership.
    Compared with labour leadership and deputy leadership candidates he looks a fine statesman
    I strongly disagree - Starmer has far more gravitas - and even beats him in terms of charisma.
    Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London who did nothing on anti semitism while sitting alongside Corbyn in cabinet

    Starmer is bland, has no charisma at all, and it says a lot at how bankrupt labour are when he is their best hope
    You really are a raving, frothy foamed, Tory drooling acolyte....sad and utterly depressing but there you go....

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited February 2020
    Short on detail, but if Johnson follows through with his negotiating objectives as set out here, I think there is a basis for agreement. He doesn't accept yet that treaties mean permanent sanctionable obligations, but the EU isn't exceptional in insisting on those. While "sovereign equals" is technically correct, in practice it will be very unequal. Few seem interested in special access to the UK market and most parties want the UK to keep things the same, as far as possible, and not to diverge. So the negotiation is around what obligations the UK is willing to take on for the access the EU is prepared to offer

    https://twitter.com/mattholehouse/status/1224317151500283908
  • eadric said:

    eadric said:

    A clever bettor could now make a fortune betting against the predictions of Remainers. Defeat has unhinged them and their poignant hopes have become firm expectations.

    Betting against Remainers is now like betting against England fans during promising World Cups

    Have you let us know how you voted in the EU referendum, just so we can get more of a handle on this exciting new entrant to the PB bear pit?
    I abstained, on principle
    BJ will be envious, he only wrote 2 letters.
  • That percentage looks somewhat familiar . . .
  • MaxPB said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    MaxPB said:

    So what happens if the Shinners win in Ireland?

    Probably the pressure for a border poll becomes inevitable.

    The DUP really did shit the bed when they backed Brexit.
    No, it won’t. Jesus Remainers have lost the plot. Even sensible ones like you.
    The Irish are about to put the political wing of the IRA into government, if you don't think that will have an impact in Ireland then you really are naive.
    Ireland is St Augustine. Give me unity, Lord, but, ah, not quite yet. Ireland can’t afford Ulster, everyone is terrified of a return to violence, and Brexit needs to bed in for 5-10 years before anyone can make a sound judgement on the best options ahead.

    Varadkar said this himself, and he’s right.
    He's not going to be the Taoiseach for very much longer though.
    To think some people said Varadkar was avowedly anti British.

    Wait until we have a Sinn Fein Taoiseach, Varadkar will look like a Unionist in comparison.
    Fine Gael (or at least their immediate political forebears) were backed by Britain during the Irish Civil War.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    edited February 2020

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Next months trial just might move the dial.

    I don't think it will much if it is just Salmond. There is a lot of Scotland shame inherent in Scottish nationalism. Salmond turning out to be a perv just increases that bloody minded sort of angry hurt feeling. If it brings Sturgeon down that's a different matter. That's the team losing its star striker.
    What people tolerated and covered up for Salmond is going to be much more interesting than what he is alleged to have done. How much of that Nicola’s Lord Advocate allows to come out will be key.
    I would have thought as a pro you would have popped in a 'might have' between 'people' and 'tolerated'.
    You’re probably right but I don’t think that there is any doubt at all that Salmond was very fond of putting himself about. The question in the trial will be whether that was mere oafishness or crossed lines into criminal conduct.
  • eadric said:

    A clever bettor could now make a fortune betting against the predictions of Remainers. Defeat has unhinged them and their poignant hopes have become firm expectations.

    Betting against Remainers is now like betting against England fans during promising World Cups

    Have you let us know how you voted in the EU referendum, just so we can get more of a handle on this exciting new entrant to the PB bear pit?
    Depends whether his vote was before or after the lagershed will be my guess.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,211
    edited February 2020
    Kansas Chiefs fans, a Missouri team, in Arizona, attending an Iowan Caucus.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    rcs1000 said:

    I know it's incredibly early days, but is anyone other than Klobuchar, Buttigieg and Sanders going to get any traction tonight?

    I've had some traction tonight. Oh, hang on, your not talking about trains, are you?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    MaxPB said:

    So what happens if the Shinners win in Ireland?

    Probably the pressure for a border poll becomes inevitable.

    The DUP really did shit the bed when they backed Brexit.
    No, it won’t. Jesus Remainers have lost the plot. Even sensible ones like you.
    The Irish are about to put the political wing of the IRA into government, if you don't think that will have an impact in Ireland then you really are naive.
    No they aren't. SF aren't running enough candidates to get into government with a broad left coalition, and neither FF or FG will go into coalition with them. 2nd election immediately is looking by far the most likely option at the moment. I remember when you used to make fun of the bed-wetters, not be one of them.
    FF might go into coalition with SF in spite of what FF says. They were on the same side 100 years ago. FG and SF a non-starter I think.
  • eadric said:

    eadric said:

    A clever bettor could now make a fortune betting against the predictions of Remainers. Defeat has unhinged them and their poignant hopes have become firm expectations.

    Betting against Remainers is now like betting against England fans during promising World Cups

    Have you let us know how you voted in the EU referendum, just so we can get more of a handle on this exciting new entrant to the PB bear pit?
    I abstained, on principle
    How the fuck do you pronounce "eadric"?

    Genuine question.

    Ta.
  • eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    MaxPB said:

    So what happens if the Shinners win in Ireland?

    Probably the pressure for a border poll becomes inevitable.

    The DUP really did shit the bed when they backed Brexit.
    No, it won’t. Jesus Remainers have lost the plot. Even sensible ones like you.
    The Irish are about to put the political wing of the IRA into government, if you don't think that will have an impact in Ireland then you really are naive.
    Ireland is St Augustine. Give me unity, Lord, but, ah, not quite yet. Ireland can’t afford Ulster, everyone is terrified of a return to violence, and Brexit needs to bed in for 5-10 years before anyone can make a sound judgement on the best options ahead.

    Varadkar said this himself, and he’s right.
    You could have said the same about West Germany taking on East Germany in 1988.
    An utterly ridiculous comparison. Jesus
    No, it was a discussion I had with several Germans back in 2018, you know when I was spending a lot of time in Germany trying to mitigate the worst aspects of Brexit in my day job.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    I know many Leavers might celebrate the demise of Leo Varadkar but be careful what you wish for !
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    I know it's incredibly early days, but is anyone other than Klobuchar, Buttigieg and Sanders going to get any traction tonight?

    My Girl will come good.
  • Two officials in China have been removed from their posts after a teenager with cerebral palsy died when his father - and sole carer - was quarantined for suspected coronavirus.

    Yan Cheng, 16, was found dead on Wednesday, a week after his father and brother were placed in quarantine.

    The boy was fed only twice during this time, according to reports.

    Both the local Communist Party secretary and mayor in Huajiahe town have been dismissed over the case.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51362772
  • eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    A clever bettor could now make a fortune betting against the predictions of Remainers. Defeat has unhinged them and their poignant hopes have become firm expectations.

    Betting against Remainers is now like betting against England fans during promising World Cups

    Have you let us know how you voted in the EU referendum, just so we can get more of a handle on this exciting new entrant to the PB bear pit?
    I abstained, on principle
    How the fuck do you pronounce "eadric"?

    Genuine question.

    Ta.
    EE-DRIK

    it’s from my direct ancestor, Eadric the Wild, who roamed the sweet green hills of the Welsh Marches, where i spent my honeysuckled childhood

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eadric_the_Wild
    Fascinating! Um, thanks!
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    edited February 2020
    Results so far with non Iowa satellite caucus results included mostly from a Florida nurcing home:

    Klobuchar 50 votes
    Buttigieg 41
    Biden 33
    Bernie 31
    Warren 20
    Yang 3
    Steyer 2

    The only pattern emerging is that non-retirees like Bernie very much, retirees hate Bernie very much, but the polls already told us that.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I know it's incredibly early days, but is anyone other than Klobuchar, Buttigieg and Sanders going to get any traction tonight?

    My Girl will come good.
    So long as neither Hillary Clinton, nor Michael Bloomberg get any delegates tonight, I'll be delighted.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,708
    Next up - an Iowa satellite caucus in Arizona!
  • eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    MaxPB said:

    So what happens if the Shinners win in Ireland?

    Probably the pressure for a border poll becomes inevitable.

    The DUP really did shit the bed when they backed Brexit.
    No, it won’t. Jesus Remainers have lost the plot. Even sensible ones like you.
    The Irish are about to put the political wing of the IRA into government, if you don't think that will have an impact in Ireland then you really are naive.
    Ireland is St Augustine. Give me unity, Lord, but, ah, not quite yet. Ireland can’t afford Ulster, everyone is terrified of a return to violence, and Brexit needs to bed in for 5-10 years before anyone can make a sound judgement on the best options ahead.

    Varadkar said this himself, and he’s right.
    You could have said the same about West Germany taking on East Germany in 1988.
    An utterly ridiculous comparison. Jesus
    No, it was a discussion I had with several Germans back in 2018, you know when I was spending a lot of time in Germany trying to mitigate the worst aspects of Brexit in my day job.
    That doesn’t make the comparison any less stupid. Sorry. It’s like saying the Holocaust was like the Spanish Civil War and I know because I’ve spent three weeks in Barcelona
    I wish you had a vagina on your head so someone could fuck some sense into you.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited February 2020
    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    eadric said:



    I just watched that Boris speech. It’s one of the best English language political speeches, I’ve seen, since Obama’s speech on race in Philadelphia (which for me is the benchmark of great modern English language Political speeches)

    Witty, clever, firm when necessary, candid, interesting, and occasionally inspiring. Bit dull on eu law versus Uk law, but that was necessary in the circumstances.

    Boris is growing into the role. This won’t please his haters, who will never see good in him, but he is gaining in stature.

    I have a special interest in political speeches and your recommendation listened to Johnson's speech. I tried to give him the benefit of a big doubt, maybe not entirely successfully. I agree Johnson is a good speechmaker, he's fluent and he knows how to engage an audience. A total contrast to Theresa May.

    The speech was let down in my view by the emptiness and dishonesty at its heart. Johnson appears to be ignorant about lots of things, which is perhaps surprising for someone who projects a persona of intelligence and cleverness. As a stump speech where you don't say anything much, except trying to get an audience on your side, maybe it was fine. The overall effect was of peevishness, which as far as I know isn't Johnson's normal style.
    I didn’t get that at all. Superficial in places, certainly. A certain lack of clarity on the specifics undoubtedly. But peevish? Just didn’t get that at all.
    Johnson was complaining a fair bit in that speech: about state level regulation in the US, about them not eating UK beef, about America bashers, about the EU not trusting the UK on standards, about them not offering reciprocity and by implication respect. Johnson is a fluent speaker, so it comes across as "and another thing..."
  • PaoliPaoli Posts: 8
    tyson said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    The Saj has seriously underperformed to date. Being so precipitate on HS2 was unwise unless he had cover from No 10. His Autumn statement was just embarrassing. A lot depends on his budget. He really has to seize the moment and epitomise the Boris revolution.
    Sajid is the most uncharismatic, untelegenic politician ever. He makes Teresa May look like a young, more compelling Marlon Brando.

    It’s a shame cause I think he’s smart and he has a great and inspiring backstory. He’s an impressive dude CV-wise. But he’s so wooden he may get the chop, daboomtish

    The Tories need more persuasive voices, and he doesn’t cut it.
    Since becoming Chancellor , he has come across as surprisingly dim - Javid does not look the part at all and has little natural authority.With hindsight, I am finding it difficult to understand why Stephen Crabbe supported him for the leadership.
    Compared with labour leadership and deputy leadership candidates he looks a fine statesman
    I strongly disagree - Starmer has far more gravitas - and even beats him in terms of charisma.
    Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London who did nothing on anti semitism while sitting alongside Corbyn in cabinet

    Starmer is bland, has no charisma at all, and it says a lot at how bankrupt labour are when he is their best hope
    You really are a raving, frothy foamed, Tory drooling acolyte....sad and utterly depressing but there you go....

    One difficulty with being a "human rights lawyer" is Keir Starmer has a long history of arguing for early release of prisoners and representing terrorists. For example, In 2007, he represented Paul Stellato in the House of Lords, arguing Stellato should be released on licence. When eventually released, Stellato tried to buy hand grenades on the dark web and had to go bback inside. There are lots of other examples. Labour's new leader could be placed in an interesting position over the announcement that terrorist prisoners won't now be eligible for automatic early release.
  • Does anyone know how integrated the Republic's Sinn Fein party is with Northern Ireland's Sinn Fein party?

    And Sinn Fein signed the Good Friday Agreement 23 years ago agreeing to settle Ireland's future peacefully. Does the Republic's Sinn Fein stand by that? Does their manifesto and campaigning actually concentrate on constitutional issues [like the SNP] or does it concentrate on domestic matters?
  • tyson said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    The Saj has seriously underperformed to date. Being so precipitate on HS2 was unwise unless he had cover from No 10. His Autumn statement was just embarrassing. A lot depends on his budget. He really has to seize the moment and epitomise the Boris revolution.
    Sajid is the most uncharismatic, untelegenic politician ever. He makes Teresa May look like a young, more compelling Marlon Brando.

    It’s a shame cause I think he’s smart and he has a great and inspiring backstory. He’s an impressive dude CV-wise. But he’s so wooden he may get the chop, daboomtish

    The Tories need more persuasive voices, and he doesn’t cut it.
    Since becoming Chancellor , he has come across as surprisingly dim - Javid does not look the part at all and has little natural authority.With hindsight, I am finding it difficult to understand why Stephen Crabbe supported him for the leadership.
    Compared with labour leadership and deputy leadership candidates he looks a fine statesman
    I strongly disagree - Starmer has far more gravitas - and even beats him in terms of charisma.
    Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London who did nothing on anti semitism while sitting alongside Corbyn in cabinet

    Starmer is bland, has no charisma at all, and it says a lot at how bankrupt labour are when he is their best hope
    You really are a raving, frothy foamed, Tory drooling acolyte....sad and utterly depressing but there you go....

    Thanks Tyson. Happy new year to you
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I know it's incredibly early days, but is anyone other than Klobuchar, Buttigieg and Sanders going to get any traction tonight?

    My Girl will come good.
    So long as neither Hillary Clinton, nor Michael Bloomberg get any delegates tonight, I'll be delighted.
    Bloomberg is the dark dangerous heart of my otherwise delightful book.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Klobuchar surge would suit me fine. Biden and Pete dying on their arse would be better than Biden or Warren collapsing.
  • nico67 said:

    I know many Leavers might celebrate the demise of Leo Varadkar but be careful what you wish for !

    Leo Varadkar is an anagram of:

    A Dark Leavor

    (yes, i know I needed another "e" :lol: )
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    MikeL said:

    Next up - an Iowa satellite caucus in Arizona!

    Before the proper caucuses start the results are going to be very loopsided with non-iowan votes.
  • Who is this Des Moines fella?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I know it's incredibly early days, but is anyone other than Klobuchar, Buttigieg and Sanders going to get any traction tonight?

    My Girl will come good.
    So long as neither Hillary Clinton, nor Michael Bloomberg get any delegates tonight, I'll be delighted.
    Bloomberg is the dark dangerous heart of my otherwise delightful book.
    What you need to avoid is a situation where none of the moderates get many delegates going into Super Tuesday - say a situation where Sanders leads by a mile, and Buttigieg, Biden and Klobuchar all have 10% or fewer of the delegates.

    That's when he could hammer you or I.

    If, on the other hand, the moderate wing consolidates around a single candidate before Super Tuesday, then it's all over for Mike.
  • Does anyone know how integrated the Republic's Sinn Fein party is with Northern Ireland's Sinn Fein party?

    And Sinn Fein signed the Good Friday Agreement 23 years ago agreeing to settle Ireland's future peacefully. Does the Republic's Sinn Fein stand by that? Does their manifesto and campaigning actually concentrate on constitutional issues [like the SNP] or does it concentrate on domestic matters?

    Sinn Fein is organised on an all-Ireland basis. There is no "Northern Ireland" or "Republic" Sinn Fein.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864

    rcs1000 said:

    I know it's incredibly early days, but is anyone other than Klobuchar, Buttigieg and Sanders going to get any traction tonight?

    I've had some traction tonight. Oh, hang on, your not talking about trains, are you?
    We are always talking about trains.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    Paoli said:

    tyson said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    The Saj has seriously underperformed to date. Being so precipitate on HS2 was unwise unless he had cover from No 10. His Autumn statement was just embarrassing. A lot depends on his budget. He really has to seize the moment and epitomise the Boris revolution.
    Sajid is the most uncharismatic, untelegenic politician ever. He makes Teresa May look like a young, more compelling Marlon Brando.

    It’s a shame cause I think he’s smart and he has a great and inspiring backstory. He’s an impressive dude CV-wise. But he’s so wooden he may get the chop, daboomtish

    The Tories need more persuasive voices, and he doesn’t cut it.
    Since becoming Chancellor , he has come across as surprisingly dim - Javid does not look the part at all and has little natural authority.With hindsight, I am finding it difficult to understand why Stephen Crabbe supported him for the leadership.
    Compared with labour leadership and deputy leadership candidates he looks a fine statesman
    I strongly disagree - Starmer has far more gravitas - and even beats him in terms of charisma.
    Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London who did nothing on anti semitism while sitting alongside Corbyn in cabinet

    Starmer is bland, has no charisma at all, and it says a lot at how bankrupt labour are when he is their best hope
    You really are a raving, frothy foamed, Tory drooling acolyte....sad and utterly depressing but there you go....

    One difficulty with being a "human rights lawyer" is Keir Starmer has a long history of arguing for early release of prisoners and representing terrorists. For example, In 2007, he represented Paul Stellato in the House of Lords, arguing Stellato should be released on licence. When eventually released, Stellato tried to buy hand grenades on the dark web and had to go bback inside. There are lots of other examples. Labour's new leader could be placed in an interesting position over the announcement that terrorist prisoners won't now be eligible for automatic early release.
    Surely the "taxicab" principle applies.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    speedy2 said:

    Results so far with non Iowa satellite caucus results included mostly from a Florida nurcing home:

    Klobuchar 50 votes
    Buttigieg 41
    Biden 33
    Bernie 31
    Warren 20
    Yang 3
    Steyer 2

    The only pattern emerging is that non-retirees like Bernie very much, retirees hate Bernie very much, but the polls already told us that.

    Actually, I think the poll tells us a couple of things:

    1. Bernie has organised the Unions well. If this was heavily-Unionised Nevada, he'd be killing it.

    2. Klobuchar is getting a bit more traction than you might expect.

    3. Biden and Warren are not doing that great.

    4. Yang and Steyer aren't going to be the Democratic nominee.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    The Saj has seriously underperformed to date. Being so precipitate on HS2 was unwise unless he had cover from No 10. His Autumn statement was just embarrassing. A lot depends on his budget. He really has to seize the moment and epitomise the Boris revolution.
    Sajid is the most uncharismatic, untelegenic politician ever. He makes Teresa May look like a young, more compelling Marlon Brando.

    It’s a shame cause I think he’s smart and he has a great and inspiring backstory. He’s an impressive dude CV-wise. But he’s so wooden he may get the chop, daboomtish

    The Tories need more persuasive voices, and he doesn’t cut it.
    Since becoming Chancellor , he has come across as surprisingly dim - Javid does not look the part at all and has little natural authority.With hindsight, I am finding it difficult to understand why Stephen Crabbe supported him for the leadership.
    Compared with labour leadership and deputy leadership candidates he looks a fine statesman
    I strongly disagree - Starmer has far more gravitas - and even beats him in terms of charisma.
    Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London who did nothing on anti semitism while sitting alongside Corbyn in cabinet

    Starmer is bland, has no charisma at all, and it says a lot at how bankrupt labour are when he is their best hope
    Are you aware of Starmer's back story Big_G?

    I'd have thought you'd respect the fact that he's achieved success from an ordinary unprivileged working class background.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    Paoli said:

    tyson said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    The Saj has seriously underperformed to date. Being so precipitate on HS2 was unwise unless he had cover from No 10. His Autumn statement was just embarrassing. A lot depends on his budget. He really has to seize the moment and epitomise the Boris revolution.
    Sajid is the most uncharismatic, untelegenic politician ever. He makes Teresa May look like a young, more compelling Marlon Brando.

    It’s a shame cause I think he’s smart and he has a great and inspiring backstory. He’s an impressive dude CV-wise. But he’s so wooden he may get the chop, daboomtish

    The Tories need more persuasive voices, and he doesn’t cut it.
    Since becoming Chancellor , he has come across as surprisingly dim - Javid does not look the part at all and has little natural authority.With hindsight, I am finding it difficult to understand why Stephen Crabbe supported him for the leadership.
    Compared with labour leadership and deputy leadership candidates he looks a fine statesman
    I strongly disagree - Starmer has far more gravitas - and even beats him in terms of charisma.
    Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London who did nothing on anti semitism while sitting alongside Corbyn in cabinet

    Starmer is bland, has no charisma at all, and it says a lot at how bankrupt labour are when he is their best hope
    You really are a raving, frothy foamed, Tory drooling acolyte....sad and utterly depressing but there you go....

    One difficulty with being a "human rights lawyer" is Keir Starmer has a long history of arguing for early release of prisoners and representing terrorists. For example, In 2007, he represented Paul Stellato in the House of Lords, arguing Stellato should be released on licence. When eventually released, Stellato tried to buy hand grenades on the dark web and had to go bback inside. There are lots of other examples. Labour's new leader could be placed in an interesting position over the announcement that terrorist prisoners won't now be eligible for automatic early release.
    Really don’t see that. Some of the screw ups when he was DPP might be more fruitful.
  • So it looks like after spending years of Varadkar being a "New Coke" tribute act to Sinn Fein before at the 11th hour and 55th minute compromising with Johnson to get a deal, now the Irish voters may go for the real deal.

    Why not go for the real thing when he's not been arguing against and has instead been a pale imitation?
  • NEW THREAD

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,484

    MaxPB said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    MaxPB said:

    So what happens if the Shinners win in Ireland?

    Probably the pressure for a border poll becomes inevitable.

    The DUP really did shit the bed when they backed Brexit.
    No, it won’t. Jesus Remainers have lost the plot. Even sensible ones like you.
    The Irish are about to put the political wing of the IRA into government, if you don't think that will have an impact in Ireland then you really are naive.
    Ireland is St Augustine. Give me unity, Lord, but, ah, not quite yet. Ireland can’t afford Ulster, everyone is terrified of a return to violence, and Brexit needs to bed in for 5-10 years before anyone can make a sound judgement on the best options ahead.

    Varadkar said this himself, and he’s right.
    He's not going to be the Taoiseach for very much longer though.
    To think some people said Varadkar was avowedly anti British.

    Wait until we have a Sinn Fein Taoiseach, Varadkar will look like a Unionist in comparison.
    Varadkar seemed like a fairly nice chap to me. I can't say the same for that other little git who was the deputy. However, I think he was meant to be bad cop.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,126

    Does anyone know how integrated the Republic's Sinn Fein party is with Northern Ireland's Sinn Fein party?

    They are the same party. Historically, Sinn Fein never recognised the legitimacy of the border.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,484
    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    eadric said:



    I just watched that Boris speech. It’s one of the best English language political speeches, I’ve seen, since Obama’s speech on race in Philadelphia (which for me is the benchmark of great modern English language Political speeches)

    Witty, clever, firm when necessary, candid, interesting, and occasionally inspiring. Bit dull on eu law versus Uk law, but that was necessary in the circumstances.

    Boris is growing into the role. This won’t please his haters, who will never see good in him, but he is gaining in stature.

    I have a special interest in political speeches and your recommendation listened to Johnson's speech. I tried to give him the benefit of a big doubt, maybe not entirely successfully. I agree Johnson is a good speechmaker, he's fluent and he knows how to engage an audience. A total contrast to Theresa May.

    The speech was let down in my view by the emptiness and dishonesty at its heart. Johnson appears to be ignorant about lots of things, which is perhaps surprising for someone who projects a persona of intelligence and cleverness. As a stump speech where you don't say anything much, except trying to get an audience on your side, maybe it was fine. The overall effect was of peevishness, which as far as I know isn't Johnson's normal style.
    I didn’t get that at all. Superficial in places, certainly. A certain lack of clarity on the specifics undoubtedly. But peevish? Just didn’t get that at all.
    Johnson was complaining a fair bit in that speech: about state level regulation in the US, about them not eating UK beef, about America bashers, about the EU not trusting the UK on standards, about them not offering reciprocity and by implication respect. Johnson is a fluent speaker, so it comes across as "and another thing..."
    Yes, people shouldn't complain in a speech should they?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited February 2020

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    eadric said:



    I just watched that Boris speech. It’s one of the best English language political speeches, I’ve seen, since Obama’s speech on race in Philadelphia (which for me is the benchmark of great modern English language Political speeches)

    Witty, clever, firm when necessary, candid, interesting, and occasionally inspiring. Bit dull on eu law versus Uk law, but that was necessary in the circumstances.

    Boris is growing into the role. This won’t please his haters, who will never see good in him, but he is gaining in stature.

    I have a special interest in political speeches and your recommendation listened to Johnson's speech. I tried to give him the benefit of a big doubt, maybe not entirely successfully. I agree Johnson is a good speechmaker, he's fluent and he knows how to engage an audience. A total contrast to Theresa May.

    The speech was let down in my view by the emptiness and dishonesty at its heart. Johnson appears to be ignorant about lots of things, which is perhaps surprising for someone who projects a persona of intelligence and cleverness. As a stump speech where you don't say anything much, except trying to get an audience on your side, maybe it was fine. The overall effect was of peevishness, which as far as I know isn't Johnson's normal style.
    I didn’t get that at all. Superficial in places, certainly. A certain lack of clarity on the specifics undoubtedly. But peevish? Just didn’t get that at all.
    Johnson was complaining a fair bit in that speech: about state level regulation in the US, about them not eating UK beef, about America bashers, about the EU not trusting the UK on standards, about them not offering reciprocity and by implication respect. Johnson is a fluent speaker, so it comes across as "and another thing..."
    Yes, people shouldn't complain in a speech should they?
    Johnson can say what he wants. He is certainly under no obligation to deliver "one of the best English language political speeches, I’ve seen, since Obama’s speech on race in Philadelphia", which was the claim made for this one. But if it ends up as a long moan, it's going to be tricky...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,484
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    eadric said:



    I just watched that Boris speech. It’s one of the best English language political speeches, I’ve seen, since Obama’s speech on race in Philadelphia (which for me is the benchmark of great modern English language Political speeches)

    Witty, clever, firm when necessary, candid, interesting, and occasionally inspiring. Bit dull on eu law versus Uk law, but that was necessary in the circumstances.

    Boris is growing into the role. This won’t please his haters, who will never see good in him, but he is gaining in stature.

    I have a special interest in political speeches and your recommendation listened to Johnson's speech. I tried to give him the benefit of a big doubt, maybe not entirely successfully. I agree Johnson is a good speechmaker, he's fluent and he knows how to engage an audience. A total contrast to Theresa May.

    The speech was let down in my view by the emptiness and dishonesty at its heart. Johnson appears to be ignorant about lots of things, which is perhaps surprising for someone who projects a persona of intelligence and cleverness. As a stump speech where you don't say anything much, except trying to get an audience on your side, maybe it was fine. The overall effect was of peevishness, which as far as I know isn't Johnson's normal style.
    I didn’t get that at all. Superficial in places, certainly. A certain lack of clarity on the specifics undoubtedly. But peevish? Just didn’t get that at all.
    Johnson was complaining a fair bit in that speech: about state level regulation in the US, about them not eating UK beef, about America bashers, about the EU not trusting the UK on standards, about them not offering reciprocity and by implication respect. Johnson is a fluent speaker, so it comes across as "and another thing..."
    Yes, people shouldn't complain in a speech should they?
    Johnson can say what he wants. He is certainly under no obligation to deliver "one of the best English language political speeches, I’ve seen, since Obama’s speech on race in Philadelphia", which was the claim made for this one. But if it ends up as a long moan, it's going to be tricky...
    A tendency to indulge in a long moan has beset many an otherwise competent speech maker. Martin Luther King springs to mind. Moan moan moan. If you've got nothing nice to say, don't say anything.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    eadric said:



    I just watched that Boris speech. It’s one of the best English language political speeches, I’ve seen, since Obama’s speech on race in Philadelphia (which for me is the benchmark of great modern English language Political speeches)

    Witty, clever, firm when necessary, candid, interesting, and occasionally inspiring. Bit dull on eu law versus Uk law, but that was necessary in the circumstances.

    Boris is growing into the role. This won’t please his haters, who will never see good in him, but he is gaining in stature.

    I have a special interest in political speeches and your recommendation listened to Johnson's speech. I tried to give him the benefit of a big doubt, maybe not entirely successfully. I agree Johnson is a good speechmaker, he's fluent and he knows how to engage an audience. A total contrast to Theresa May.

    The speech was let down in my view by the emptiness and dishonesty at its heart. Johnson appears to be ignorant about lots of things, which is perhaps surprising for someone who projects a persona of intelligence and cleverness. As a stump speech where you don't say anything much, except trying to get an audience on your side, maybe it was fine. The overall effect was of peevishness, which as far as I know isn't Johnson's normal style.
    I didn’t get that at all. Superficial in places, certainly. A certain lack of clarity on the specifics undoubtedly. But peevish? Just didn’t get that at all.
    Johnson was complaining a fair bit in that speech: about state level regulation in the US, about them not eating UK beef, about America bashers, about the EU not trusting the UK on standards, about them not offering reciprocity and by implication respect. Johnson is a fluent speaker, so it comes across as "and another thing..."
    Yes, people shouldn't complain in a speech should they?
    Johnson can say what he wants. He is certainly under no obligation to deliver "one of the best English language political speeches, I’ve seen, since Obama’s speech on race in Philadelphia", which was the claim made for this one. But if it ends up as a long moan, it's going to be tricky...
    Not to mention his addiction to hyperbolic and implausible strawmanning.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    HYUFD said:
    The EU’s next move is to entice Scotland.

    This is a hostile act and all part of their move to punish the UK for leaving, and encourage others not to do the same.

    They will wrap it up in language around defending the interests of member states only, and being neutral on potential new accession member states.

    Boris should say he’ll immediately guillotine all talks if they encourage - tacitly or otherwise - dismemberment of the UK.
    Ha Ha Ha the unionists are panicking that Europe will entice away their last colony, the one they are desperately trying to keep in chains.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    DavidL said:

    Next months trial just might move the dial.

    I don't think it will much if it is just Salmond. There is a lot of Scotland shame inherent in Scottish nationalism. Salmond turning out to be a perv just increases that bloody minded sort of angry hurt feeling. If it brings Sturgeon down that's a different matter. That's the team losing its star striker.
    With all the unionist crap we will see it is very likely to increase support, the only way is up and out. Time the fat buffoon accepted it.
This discussion has been closed.