People should always be encouraged to develop their own skillsets and maximise their potential.
Further academic study can be one method to do so but it should never become the only or the exclusive method.
Agreed. There should be more than one tool in the toolbox.
My understanding of a nursing degree is that it’s very similar to an apprenticeship but with academic study thrown in.
People just see the word “degree” and start frothing about “the good old days”.
People just see the word “degree” and think “Why does a nurse need to start her career £27k in debt”?
I think part of the issue here is that modern medicine has become much more bifurcated than it used to be.
In the old days, you'd have doctors and nurses. And there'd be little specialist equipment. And you'd be given one of a small number of drugs. And you'd rest and be hydrated. And you'd survive or not.
Medicine, now, is so specialised. And a lot of the more general work, right up to prescribing of drugs, is now performed by nurses. (Indeed, in many a busy A&E you can be triaged by a regular nurse, sent to a Nurse Practioner, who examines your XRays, and then prescribes you painkillers. You can have had an entire hospital visit, without being seen by a medical doctor.
Much of the traditional role of nurse - cleaning up vomit, washing patients, and the like - is now performed by Healthcare Assistants, who do much of the grunt work.
If we want nurses to be capable of prescribing drugs, they need training. Whether that is a degree or some combination is another matter. But I think it's simplistic to think of nursing these days as a relatively low skilled profession.
What they should have done is come up with a new job title to reflect the new enhanced role - much as happened with the introduction of paramedics in ambulances a few decades ago.
There also needs to be a pathway for experienced people in one profession to be able to transition to another, with their experience used as training credit.
That's being seriously talked about; pharmacists > doctors anyway. Depends on where the 'doctor' is going to work; hospital, with a considerable degree of specialisation, or GP-land.
I think calling it a “one more heave” strategy is not quite right. More an “our day will come” strategy...
Well yes. Also I guess “one more heave” suggests that the heave before it might have yielded good results. 2019 was a one more heave strategy after 2017.
Labour are safe as one of the two major parties for now. They are the destination for left and left of centre votes. They represent the constituencies which vote left of centre.
Until a credible challenge to them from a left of centre party arrives those votes will largely stay with Labour. A party that wants to usurp Labour needs to challenge Labour for the voters in the seats that return left leaning candidates. Having a second left leaning party that puts all efforts into winning a handful or two tory seats is no challenge to Labour. For a left leaning party to become relevant and challenge Labour they need to fight to win Labour seats.
Right now Labour have no competition on the left, they can elect any old fool and continue to be the second party in parliament.
I think calling it a “one more heave” strategy is not quite right. More an “our day will come” strategy...
Yep. They know if they cede power to a more electable version of Labour, they will never achieve their aim - which is a completely transformed, socialist vision of the UK.
So their only option is to wait and wait and wait and hope that the Tories screw up, the people get bored of them, the government collapses, the pendulum swings back.
Their aim is to be the only other game in town. And they can't do that if they cede control to the moderates.
Different PLP now Mr Dancer. It's got nutters like Claudia Webbe and Lloyd Russell Moyle in it.
PLP has lost Skinner and Pidcock.
And the compassionate calm Chris Williamson
But I don’t think that outweighs the number of new recruits.
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
Different PLP now Mr Dancer. It's got nutters like Claudia Webbe and Lloyd Russell Moyle in it.
PLP has lost Skinner and Pidcock.
And the compassionate calm Chris Williamson
But I don’t think that outweighs the number of new recruits.
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
It seems that despite it getting an airing in 2017 the enemy of the UK/anti-semitism thing worked against Jezza in 2019 as people who said they couldn't vote for him often had this in mind.
Take that away and it might restore a chunk of Lab's vote. No matter how economically bonkers the policies might remain.
Labour are safe as one of the two major parties for now. They are the destination for left and left of centre votes. They represent the constituencies which vote left of centre.
Until a credible challenge to them from a left of centre party arrives those votes will largely stay with Labour. A party that wants to usurp Labour needs to challenge Labour for the voters in the seats that return left leaning candidates. Having a second left leaning party that puts all efforts into winning a handful or two tory seats is no challenge to Labour. For a left leaning party to become relevant and challenge Labour they need to fight to win Labour seats.
Right now Labour have no competition on the left, they can elect any old fool and continue to be the second party in parliament.
Yes. A LD surge of even modest proportions might genuinely have put them under threat if they, as it appears they will, decide Corbyn and Corbynism was great bar a few minor details and the fault of the media, as momentum would have been with the LDs and theres a chance defeated candidates and others might have said it was time to move on.
But what is happening instead? Encouraging people to join labour, as it's the only vehicle available. They've no challengers in England at least, and limited challenge in Wales from the left.
Different PLP now Mr Dancer. It's got nutters like Claudia Webbe and Lloyd Russell Moyle in it.
PLP has lost Skinner and Pidcock.
And the compassionate calm Chris Williamson
But I don’t think that outweighs the number of new recruits.
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
But the PLP doesn’t decide the leadership. Only the shortlist. So it will not have learned its lesson to the extent of not nominating a nutcase, er, Corbynista. And if they nominate them, because the membership is more divorced from reality than Fred the Shred, they will win.
Labour are safe as one of the two major parties for now. They are the destination for left and left of centre votes. They represent the constituencies which vote left of centre.
Until a credible challenge to them from a left of centre party arrives those votes will largely stay with Labour. A party that wants to usurp Labour needs to challenge Labour for the voters in the seats that return left leaning candidates. Having a second left leaning party that puts all efforts into winning a handful or two tory seats is no challenge to Labour. For a left leaning party to become relevant and challenge Labour they need to fight to win Labour seats.
Right now Labour have no competition on the left, they can elect any old fool and continue to be the second party in parliament.
Yes. A LD surge of even modest proportions might genuinely have put them under threat if they, as it appears they will, decide Corbyn and Corbynism was great bar a few minor details and the fault of the media, as momentum would have been with the LDs and theres a chance defeated candidates and others might have said it was time to move on.
But what is happening instead? Encouraging people to join labour, as it's the only vehicle available. They've no challengers in England at least, and limited challenge in Wales from the left.
The challenge in Wales is coming from the right. The Tories have rallied a huge chunk of the non Labour vote behind them, establishing themselves as a nationwide alternative to Labour in the process. They have gone from having just half the number of votes of Labour in 2005 to being only 75,000 behind in 2019 - a smaller gap than the 83,000 votes that went to the Brexit Party.
If at the next assembly elections Plaid split the left vote, which they failed to do in this election, Labour could have a problem.
And sensible Labour MPs have the recent and perfect example of how to pussyfoot around and screw things up by following the Tom Watson strategy of loyalty to a brand rather than the values behind it. If another idiot gets in they should walk en masse (but then, they should've done that, led by Watson, who instead managed to help destroy any chance Change UK had of success whilst failing to unseat Corbyn and his cadre from the front bench).
Different PLP now Mr Dancer. It's got nutters like Claudia Webbe and Lloyd Russell Moyle in it.
PLP has lost Skinner and Pidcock.
And the compassionate calm Chris Williamson
But I don’t think that outweighs the number of new recruits.
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
But how many of those are the sort willing to take on their own membership to ensure there is a change in direction, and how many will vote for a non corbynite but then happily go along with the corbynite if they win under a one more heave strategy? Especially as they can always go the Phillips route 2017-2019 and just cry on twitter and do nothing if something bad comes up, and be confident it will come up less anyway than under Corbyn.
I think calling it a “one more heave” strategy is not quite right. More an “our day will come” strategy...
Well yes. Also I guess “one more heave” suggests that the heave before it might have yielded good results. 2019 was a one more heave strategy after 2017.
When it came to Labour, in 2019 the voters were dry-heaving...
Labour are safe as one of the two major parties for now. They are the destination for left and left of centre votes. They represent the constituencies which vote left of centre.
Until a credible challenge to them from a left of centre party arrives those votes will largely stay with Labour. A party that wants to usurp Labour needs to challenge Labour for the voters in the seats that return left leaning candidates. Having a second left leaning party that puts all efforts into winning a handful or two tory seats is no challenge to Labour. For a left leaning party to become relevant and challenge Labour they need to fight to win Labour seats.
Right now Labour have no competition on the left, they can elect any old fool and continue to be the second party in parliament.
Yes. A LD surge of even modest proportions might genuinely have put them under threat if they, as it appears they will, decide Corbyn and Corbynism was great bar a few minor details and the fault of the media, as momentum would have been with the LDs and theres a chance defeated candidates and others might have said it was time to move on.
But what is happening instead? Encouraging people to join labour, as it's the only vehicle available. They've no challengers in England at least, and limited challenge in Wales from the left.
The challenge in Wales is coming from the right. The Tories have rallied a huge chunk of the non Labour vote behind them, establishing themselves as a nationwide alternative to Labour in the process. They have gone from having just half the number of votes of Labour in 2005 to being only 75,000 behind in 2019 - a smaller gap than the 83,000 votes that went to the Brexit Party.
If at the next assembly elections Plaid split the left vote, which they failed to do in this election, Labour could have a problem.
I agree, but I was thinking of threats to the position of primary anti Tory party rather than challenge to victory.
Labour are safe as one of the two major parties for now. They are the destination for left and left of centre votes. They represent the constituencies which vote left of centre.
Until a credible challenge to them from a left of centre party arrives those votes will largely stay with Labour. A party that wants to usurp Labour needs to challenge Labour for the voters in the seats that return left leaning candidates. Having a second left leaning party that puts all efforts into winning a handful or two tory seats is no challenge to Labour. For a left leaning party to become relevant and challenge Labour they need to fight to win Labour seats.
Right now Labour have no competition on the left, they can elect any old fool and continue to be the second party in parliament.
Yes. A LD surge of even modest proportions might genuinely have put them under threat if they, as it appears they will, decide Corbyn and Corbynism was great bar a few minor details and the fault of the media, as momentum would have been with the LDs and theres a chance defeated candidates and others might have said it was time to move on.
But what is happening instead? Encouraging people to join labour, as it's the only vehicle available. They've no challengers in England at least, and limited challenge in Wales from the left.
The challenge in Wales is coming from the right. The Tories have rallied a huge chunk of the non Labour vote behind them, establishing themselves as a nationwide alternative to Labour in the process. They have gone from having just half the number of votes of Labour in 2005 to being only 75,000 behind in 2019 - a smaller gap than the 83,000 votes that went to the Brexit Party.
If at the next assembly elections Plaid split the left vote, which they failed to do in this election, Labour could have a problem.
I agree, but I was thinking of threats to the position of primary anti Tory party rather than challenge to victory.
Fair answer. But I think in Wales, as in Scotland, should Labour lose their stranglehold on power they will keep sinking.
Different PLP now Mr Dancer. It's got nutters like Claudia Webbe and Lloyd Russell Moyle in it.
PLP has lost Skinner and Pidcock.
And the compassionate calm Chris Williamson
But I don’t think that outweighs the number of new recruits.
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
But how many of those are the sort willing to take on their own membership to ensure there is a change in direction, and how many will vote for a non corbynite but then happily go along with the corbynite if they win under a one more heave strategy? Especially as they can always go the Phillips route 2017-2019 and just cry on twitter and do nothing if something bad comes up, and be confident it will come up less anyway than under Corbyn.
There are tentative signs that the wiser heads on the left get it. Certainly within my CLP there is pushback against the usual social media posts slagging off right wingers. There is a genuine desire to fins someone who can unite the party and get it on the right path.
The Labour Party really don't know how fucked they are, and how abysmal their offerings out are. It's like watching a crap string quartet who have snapped half their strings try and play on the deck of the Titanic.
It is equally ironic that some pb Tories while applauding the victory for their side appear not to have noticed that half its platform was lifted lock, stock and barrel from Labour's 2017 campaign.
Boris will nick whatever is popular, wherever it comes from. I warned you of this when he was elected.
Different PLP now Mr Dancer. It's got nutters like Claudia Webbe and Lloyd Russell Moyle in it.
PLP has lost Skinner and Pidcock.
And the compassionate calm Chris Williamson
But I don’t think that outweighs the number of new recruits.
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
But how many of those are the sort willing to take on their own membership to ensure there is a change in direction, and how many will vote for a non corbynite but then happily go along with the corbynite if they win under a one more heave strategy? Especially as they can always go the Phillips route 2017-2019 and just cry on twitter and do nothing if something bad comes up, and be confident it will come up less anyway than under Corbyn.
There are tentative signs that the wiser heads on the left get it. Certainly within my CLP there is pushback against the usual social media posts slagging off right wingers. There is a genuine desire to fins someone who can unite the party and get it on the right path.
'Right' path? Blairite Tory!
But in all seriousness it will be interesting to see if the wider membership, whether they loved the manifesto or not, can accept that a defeat of this scale requires new thinking and not doubling down. The noise of online outriders drowns that out.
Good luck, although at MP level at least there dont seem many strong characters. Hopefully they have hidden depths.
It is equally ironic that some pb Tories while applauding the victory for their side appear not to have noticed that half its platform was lifted lock, stock and barrel from Labour's 2017 campaign.
Corbyn won the argument and has successfully converted the tories in a party of massive deficit funded spending.
It is equally ironic that some pb Tories while applauding the victory for their side appear not to have noticed that half its platform was lifted lock, stock and barrel from Labour's 2017 campaign.
Corbyn won the argument and has successfully converted the tories in a party of massive deficit funded spending.
Oh thank goodness, I dont know why Labour are acting like it's a disaster then.
It is perhaps worth remembering that if Labour did implode, another party would emerge to replace them. That might be the Liberal Democrats, the Greens or even a newly formed English Social Democracy grouping. FPTP is helpful to Labour if it holds together, but will ruin it should it fall apart as its voters look for alternatives.
Labour emerged as the principal party of opposition after 1918 due to the collapse of the Liberals, who were split into two factions. The Liberals did not collapse because of the emergence of Labour - it was very much a personality clash between Asquith and Lloyd George. As late as 1923, had the Liberals not been divided and confused they might still have challenged for power. But after 1923 they had clearly been replaced by Labour and did not reach 60 seats in an election again until 2005.
Different PLP now Mr Dancer. It's got nutters like Claudia Webbe and Lloyd Russell Moyle in it.
PLP has lost Skinner and Pidcock.
And the compassionate calm Chris Williamson
But I don’t think that outweighs the number of new recruits.
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
But how many of those are the sort willing to take on their own membership to ensure there is a change in direction, and how many will vote for a non corbynite but then happily go along with the corbynite if they win under a one more heave strategy? Especially as they can always go the Phillips route 2017-2019 and just cry on twitter and do nothing if something bad comes up, and be confident it will come up less anyway than under Corbyn.
There are tentative signs that the wiser heads on the left get it. Certainly within my CLP there is pushback against the usual social media posts slagging off right wingers. There is a genuine desire to fins someone who can unite the party and get it on the right path.
'Right' path? Blairite Tory!
But in all seriousness it will be interesting to see if the wider membership, whether they loved the manifesto or not, can accept that a defeat of this scale requires new thinking and not doubling down. The noise of online outriders drowns that out.
Good luck, although at MP level at least there dont seem many strong characters. Hopefully they have hidden depths.
Surely if 2019 teaches us anything, it is that noisy people on the net are not representative of how people vote.
Different PLP now Mr Dancer. It's got nutters like Claudia Webbe and Lloyd Russell Moyle in it.
PLP has lost Skinner and Pidcock.
And the compassionate calm Chris Williamson
But I don’t think that outweighs the number of new recruits.
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
But how many of those are the sort willing to take on their own membership to ensure there is a change in direction, and how many will vote for a non corbynite but then happily go along with the corbynite if they win under a one more heave strategy? Especially as they can always go the Phillips route 2017-2019 and just cry on twitter and do nothing if something bad comes up, and be confident it will come up less anyway than under Corbyn.
There are tentative signs that the wiser heads on the left get it. Certainly within my CLP there is pushback against the usual social media posts slagging off right wingers. There is a genuine desire to fins someone who can unite the party and get it on the right path.
Just curious. Do you get any sense that the CLPs in now marginal/need to be won lost seats are taking a different view to those rock-solid, can do what we want still Labour seats? Surely these marginal/need to be won lost seats are as numerous? If reality isn't dawning in these CLPs, then they really are stuffed.
It is perhaps worth remembering that if Labour did implode, another party would emerge to replace them. That might be the Liberal Democrats, the Greens or even a newly formed English Social Democracy grouping. FPTP is helpful to Labour if it ho,as together, but will ruin it should it fall apart as it’s voters look for alternatives.
Labour emerged as the principal party of opposition after 1918 due to the collapse of the Liberals, who were split into two factions. The Liberals did not collapse because of the emergence of Labour - it was very much a personality clash between Asquith and Lloyd George. As late as 1923, had the Liberals not been divided and confused they might still have challenged for power. But after 1923 they had clearly been replaced by Labour and did not reach 60 seats in an election again until 2005.
Given FPTP the more likely scenario is always to keep the party name, machine and develop what lies behind it.
The Tories are past masters at the this. Nominally he Tories have governed for years, but in truth they have been many different parties. In my lifetime at least three parties have rallied under the Tory banner with little to no consistency.
Thatcherite Economic Liberal (Thatcher) One Nation Conservative (Major, Cameron, May) Populist Nationalist (IDS, Johnson)
Different PLP now Mr Dancer. It's got nutters like Claudia Webbe and Lloyd Russell Moyle in it.
PLP has lost Skinner and Pidcock.
And the compassionate calm Chris Williamson
But I don’t think that outweighs the number of new recruits.
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
But how many of those are the sort willing to take on their own membership to ensure there is a change in direction, and how many will vote for a non corbynite but then happily go along with the corbynite if they win under a one more heave strategy? Especially as they can always go the Phillips route 2017-2019 and just cry on twitter and do nothing if something bad comes up, and be confident it will come up less anyway than under Corbyn.
There are tentative signs that the wiser heads on the left get it. Certainly within my CLP there is pushback against the usual social media posts slagging off right wingers. There is a genuine desire to fins someone who can unite the party and get it on the right path.
'Right' path? Blairite Tory!
But in all seriousness it will be interesting to see if the wider membership, whether they loved the manifesto or not, can accept that a defeat of this scale requires new thinking and not doubling down. The noise of online outriders drowns that out.
Good luck, although at MP level at least there dont seem many strong characters. Hopefully they have hidden depths.
Surely if 2019 teaches us anything, it is that noisy people on the net are not representative of how people vote.
1 Twitter post = 1/10,000th of an actual real live vote.
5,000,000 Facebook views = 500 new voters
Meanwhile, if you have the right arguments on the doorsteps.... What did Labour door-knockers say to move the conversation on if the potential voter said "No. Not whilst Corbyn...."?
Different PLP now Mr Dancer. It's got nutters like Claudia Webbe and Lloyd Russell Moyle in it.
PLP has lost Skinner and Pidcock.
And the compassionate calm Chris Williamson
But I don’t think that outweighs the number of new recruits.
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
But how many of those are the sort willing to take on their own membership to ensure there is a change in direction, and how many will vote for a non corbynite but then happily go along with the corbynite if they win under a one more heave strategy? Especially as they can always go the Phillips route 2017-2019 and just cry on twitter and do nothing if something bad comes up, and be confident it will come up less anyway than under Corbyn.
There are tentative signs that the wiser heads on the left get it. Certainly within my CLP there is pushback against the usual social media posts slagging off right wingers. There is a genuine desire to fins someone who can unite the party and get it on the right path.
'Right' path? Blairite Tory!
But in all seriousness it will be interesting to see if the wider membership, whether they loved the manifesto or not, can accept that a defeat of this scale requires new thinking and not doubling down. The noise of online outriders drowns that out.
Good luck, although at MP level at least there dont seem many strong characters. Hopefully they have hidden depths.
Surely if 2019 teaches us anything, it is that noisy people on the net are not representative of how people vote.
Nationally. But the 'drowns that out' was to indicate perhaps you're right and the party is not in a position of complete denial.
Different PLP now Mr Dancer. It's got nutters like Claudia Webbe and Lloyd Russell Moyle in it.
PLP has lost Skinner and Pidcock.
And the compassionate calm Chris Williamson
But I don’t think that outweighs the number of new recruits.
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
But how many of those are the sort willing to take on their own membership to ensure there is a change in direction, and how many will vote for a non corbynite but then happily go along with the corbynite if they win under a one more heave strategy? Especially as they can always go the Phillips route 2017-2019 and just cry on twitter and do nothing if something bad comes up, and be confident it will come up less anyway than under Corbyn.
There are tentative signs that the wiser heads on the left get it. Certainly within my CLP there is pushback against the usual social media posts slagging off right wingers. There is a genuine desire to fins someone who can unite the party and get it on the right path.
Just curious. Do you get any sense that the CLPs in now marginal/need to be won lost seats are taking a different view to those rock-solid, can do what we want still Labour seats? Surely these marginal/need to be won lost seats are as numerous? If reality isn't dawning in these CLPs, then they really are stuffed.
I don’t have visibility on that, but what I do see is experienced hands on the left striking a very different tone to newer members.
Labour are safe as one of the two major parties for now. They are the destination for left and left of centre votes. They represent the constituencies which vote left of centre.
Until a credible challenge to them from a left of centre party arrives those votes will largely stay with Labour. A party that wants to usurp Labour needs to challenge Labour for the voters in the seats that return left leaning candidates. Having a second left leaning party that puts all efforts into winning a handful or two tory seats is no challenge to Labour. For a left leaning party to become relevant and challenge Labour they need to fight to win Labour seats.
Right now Labour have no competition on the left, they can elect any old fool and continue to be the second party in parliament.
Yes. A LD surge of even modest proportions might genuinely have put them under threat if they, as it appears they will, decide Corbyn and Corbynism was great bar a few minor details and the fault of the media, as momentum would have been with the LDs and theres a chance defeated candidates and others might have said it was time to move on.
But what is happening instead? Encouraging people to join labour, as it's the only vehicle available. They've no challengers in England at least, and limited challenge in Wales from the left.
The challenge in Wales is coming from the right. The Tories have rallied a huge chunk of the non Labour vote behind them, establishing themselves as a nationwide alternative to Labour in the process. They have gone from having just half the number of votes of Labour in 2005 to being only 75,000 behind in 2019 - a smaller gap than the 83,000 votes that went to the Brexit Party.
If at the next assembly elections Plaid split the left vote, which they failed to do in this election, Labour could have a problem.
I agree, but I was thinking of threats to the position of primary anti Tory party rather than challenge to victory.
I wonder if somewhere (almost) at the top of the LD's is a Grimond, a Steel, an Ashdown or a Kennedy. Someone with ideas, who can 'march towards the sound of gunfire', to quote Grimond. Someone with a vision, preferably untainted by 2010-15, which taint Davey, although he was part of it seems to have escaped. Not sure whether Davey can fulfil that role but last time he lost because he 'wasn't a woman'. However his climate change credentials might be enough to start carving out a better place for the LD's and seriously threaten Labour.
Different PLP now Mr Dancer. It's got nutters like Claudia Webbe and Lloyd Russell Moyle in it.
PLP has lost Skinner and Pidcock.
And the compassionate calm Chris Williamson
But I don’t think that outweighs the number of new recruits.
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
But how many of those are the sort willing to take on their own membership to ensure there is a change in direction, and how many will vote for a non corbynite but then happily go along with the corbynite if they win under a one more heave strategy? Especially as they can always go the Phillips route 2017-2019 and just cry on twitter and do nothing if something bad comes up, and be confident it will come up less anyway than under Corbyn.
There are tentative signs that the wiser heads on the left get it. Certainly within my CLP there is pushback against the usual social media posts slagging off right wingers. There is a genuine desire to fins someone who can unite the party and get it on the right path.
'Right' path? Blairite Tory!
But in all seriousness it will be interesting to see if the wider membership, whether they loved the manifesto or not, can accept that a defeat of this scale requires new thinking and not doubling down. The noise of online outriders drowns that out.
Good luck, although at MP level at least there dont seem many strong characters. Hopefully they have hidden depths.
Surely if 2019 teaches us anything, it is that noisy people on the net are not representative of how people vote.
1 Twitter post = 1/10,000th of an actual real live vote.
5,000,000 Facebook views = 500 new voters
Meanwhile, if you have the right arguments on the doorsteps.... What did Labour door-knockers say to move the conversation on if the potential voter said "No. Not whilst Corbyn...."?
Judging by Pidcock by saying 'But...Tony Blair was awful!'
A really clear plan, showing how strongly the LP now understands the electorate and why it voted against Labour in the honest belief that doing so would be best for them and the country would be a start. Part 2 of the plan needs a credible outline for winning an additional 124 seats so as to be able to form a Labour government.
As long as Labour imply that the working class voters voted for poverty, inequality and destruction of the planet this will be not even a work in progress.
It is perhaps worth remembering that if Labour did implode, another party would emerge to replace them. That might be the Liberal Democrats, the Greens or even a newly formed English Social Democracy grouping. FPTP is helpful to Labour if it ho,as together, but will ruin it should it fall apart as it’s voters look for alternatives.
Labour emerged as the principal party of opposition after 1918 due to the collapse of the Liberals, who were split into two factions. The Liberals did not collapse because of the emergence of Labour - it was very much a personality clash between Asquith and Lloyd George. As late as 1923, had the Liberals not been divided and confused they might still have challenged for power. But after 1923 they had clearly been replaced by Labour and did not reach 60 seats in an election again until 2005.
Given FPTP the more likely scenario is always to keep the party name, machine and develop what lies behind it.
The Tories are past masters at the this. Nominally he Tories have governed for years, but in truth they have been many different parties. In my lifetime at least three parties have rallied under the Tory banner with little to no consistency.
Thatcherite Economic Liberal (Thatcher) One Nation Conservative (Major, Cameron, May) Populist Nationalist (IDS, Johnson)
A really clear plan, showing how strongly the LP now understands the electorate and why it voted against Labour in the honest belief that doing so would be best for them and the country would be a start. Part 2 of the plan needs a credible outline for winning an additional 124 seats so as to be able to form a Labour government.
As long as Labour imply that the working class voters voted for poverty, inequality and destruction of the planet this will be not even a work in progress.
The leadership is still in the 'voters are idiots' mode. Occasionally the contempt breaks through.
Cummings is correct here - better to give Manchester University and others cash beefing up their research departments rather than try and create something new.
Agree, if the university is prepared to embrace the new mission and identity thay would make it the MIT of the UK, rather than just Manchester uni rolling in cash.
Yeah, there had better be very tight spending guidelines attached to the money. If they don’t just want to see it disappear into the blob. If they’re going to be like MIT, they’ll also be funding a lot of scholarships for the most able in STEM subjects.
Strong rumours of a massive uptick in the number of places for nurses and doctors at Uni. Think - multiple birds with a single stone.
Haven't nursing courses been generally undersubscribed, causing them to close?
In other words, lack of places is not the fundamental problem.
Proper degrees - no.
What is a proper degree, most of the Hooray Henry's get a bollox one for sure. Then they bray about their 1:1 an d1:2 and 2:1 etc whilst coining it in and struggling to be able to tie their own shoelaces.
It is perhaps worth remembering that if Labour did implode, another party would emerge to replace them. That might be the Liberal Democrats, the Greens or even a newly formed English Social Democracy grouping. FPTP is helpful to Labour if it ho,as together, but will ruin it should it fall apart as it’s voters look for alternatives.
Labour emerged as the principal party of opposition after 1918 due to the collapse of the Liberals, who were split into two factions. The Liberals did not collapse because of the emergence of Labour - it was very much a personality clash between Asquith and Lloyd George. As late as 1923, had the Liberals not been divided and confused they might still have challenged for power. But after 1923 they had clearly been replaced by Labour and did not reach 60 seats in an election again until 2005.
Given FPTP the more likely scenario is always to keep the party name, machine and develop what lies behind it.
The Tories are past masters at the this. Nominally he Tories have governed for years, but in truth they have been many different parties. In my lifetime at least three parties have rallied under the Tory banner with little to no consistency.
Thatcherite Economic Liberal (Thatcher) One Nation Conservative (Major, Cameron, May) Populist Nationalist (IDS, Johnson)
IDS was an unpopular nationalist.
Boris is just popular.
Hard-hat Man said "WE ❤ BORIS"
The Tories have never really had a philosophy; their raison d'être has always been 'our friends in power'. Boris has managed that, but at some point he'll run out of friends.
It is perhaps worth remembering that if Labour did implode, another party would emerge to replace them. That might be the Liberal Democrats, the Greens or even a newly formed English Social Democracy grouping. FPTP is helpful to Labour if it ho,as together, but will ruin it should it fall apart as it’s voters look for alternatives.
Labour emerged as the principal party of opposition after 1918 due to the collapse of the Liberals, who were split into two factions. The Liberals did not collapse because of the emergence of Labour - it was very much a personality clash between Asquith and Lloyd George. As late as 1923, had the Liberals not been divided and confused they might still have challenged for power. But after 1923 they had clearly been replaced by Labour and did not reach 60 seats in an election again until 2005.
Given FPTP the more likely scenario is always to keep the party name, machine and develop what lies behind it.
The Tories are past masters at the this. Nominally he Tories have governed for years, but in truth they have been many different parties. In my lifetime at least three parties have rallied under the Tory banner with little to no consistency.
Thatcherite Economic Liberal (Thatcher) One Nation Conservative (Major, Cameron, May) Populist Nationalist (IDS, Johnson)
IDS was an unpopular nationalist.
Boris is just popular.
Hard-hat Man said "WE ❤ BORIS"
The Tories have never really had a philosophy; their raison d'être has always been 'our friends in power'. Boris has managed that, but at some point he'll run out of friends.
Indeed. For now, Boris owns the Conservative party. However, there are plenty of Conservatives who do not fit into this world. The fault lines are there and will re-emerge at some point. Only a question of time.
I found out today from a colleague wishing to transfer between armed response units of different police regions that Nottinghamshire Police now require new recruits to have a degree.
Yeah. Down on education. Who wants our police force to be well educated anyway?
So all our previous police have been uneducated?
Get a fucking life you idiot. Some jobs require degrees and most do not.
I didn’t say that at all. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to improve the education level of people in these roles.
There is if it means excluding those who are not academically minded but may be brilliant at the practical job at hand. Policing does not require a degree. It requires a set of practical and interpersonal skills that can best be learnt whilst actually training for and doing the job. The same goes for a vast range of other jobs. This obsession with educational qualifications is pointless and counter productive. It also serves to make third class citizens of those many people who are not educationally minded.
I’m sorry but in my opinion a police officer should have the kind of critical thinking skills one learns as part of a degree.
I’m a firm believer that anyone can succeed academically in something they enjoy and are passionate about.
One can learn those skills perfectly well without doing a degree. It is pointless and simply acts to close off a viable career route for many who are not interested in further academic study. The obsession with academic qualifications in this country is both a huge waste of time and also responsible for an increase in social inequality as it impacts adversely on many who would otherwise be able to pursue worthwhile and rewarding careers.
Oh I didn’t realise we rewarded the lazy in this country.
“Not interested in further academic study” well tough shit.
You want to become a solicitor I recall. You certainly have overweening arrogance covered off. The lack of ability to understand and process alternative arguments is a concern though.
Different PLP now Mr Dancer. It's got nutters like Claudia Webbe and Lloyd Russell Moyle in it.
PLP has lost Skinner and Pidcock.
And the compassionate calm Chris Williamson
But I don’t think that outweighs the number of new recruits.
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
But how many of those are the sort willing to take on their own membership to ensure there is a change in direction, and how many will vote for a non corbynite but then happily go along with the corbynite if they win under a one more heave strategy? Especially as they can always go the Phillips route 2017-2019 and just cry on twitter and do nothing if something bad comes up, and be confident it will come up less anyway than under Corbyn.
There are tentative signs that the wiser heads on the left get it. Certainly within my CLP there is pushback against the usual social media posts slagging off right wingers. There is a genuine desire to fins someone who can unite the party and get it on the right path.
Although Jonathan, unless I mis-remember, your CLP is based in the South East, and outside London, which is probably full of people, which are largely remainer Tories etc.
As such your CLP is probably more aware, and unlike a lot of urban labourites, not within a closed box echo chamber where tories and centre-right people don't exist.
A really clear plan, showing how strongly the LP now understands the electorate and why it voted against Labour in the honest belief that doing so would be best for them and the country would be a start. Part 2 of the plan needs a credible outline for winning an additional 124 seats so as to be able to form a Labour government.
As long as Labour imply that the working class voters voted for poverty, inequality and destruction of the planet this will be not even a work in progress.
The leadership is still in the 'voters are idiots' mode. Occasionally the contempt breaks through.
How is that bitch fight, er, libel action between Thornberry and Flint going, do we know?
It is perhaps worth remembering that if Labour did implode, another party would emerge to replace them. That might be the Liberal Democrats, the Greens or even a newly formed English Social Democracy grouping. FPTP is helpful to Labour if it ho,as together, but will ruin it should it fall apart as it’s voters look for alternatives.
Labour emerged as the principal party of opposition after 1918 due to the collapse of the Liberals, who were split into two factions. The Liberals did not collapse because of the emergence of Labour - it was very much a personality clash between Asquith and Lloyd George. As late as 1923, had the Liberals not been divided and confused they might still have challenged for power. But after 1923 they had clearly been replaced by Labour and did not reach 60 seats in an election again until 2005.
Given FPTP the more likely scenario is always to keep the party name, machine and develop what lies behind it.
The Tories are past masters at the this. Nominally he Tories have governed for years, but in truth they have been many different parties. In my lifetime at least three parties have rallied under the Tory banner with little to no consistency.
Thatcherite Economic Liberal (Thatcher) One Nation Conservative (Major, Cameron, May) Populist Nationalist (IDS, Johnson)
IDS was an unpopular nationalist.
Boris is just popular.
Hard-hat Man said "WE ❤ BORIS"
The Tories have never really had a philosophy; their raison d'être has always been 'our friends in power'. Boris has managed that, but at some point he'll run out of friends.
All political careers end in failure.
But, Mr. Corbyn, some get to do the top job, to wield power, before it all comes crashing down......
Different PLP now Mr Dancer. It's got nutters like Claudia Webbe and Lloyd Russell Moyle in it.
PLP has lost Skinner and Pidcock.
And the compassionate calm Chris Williamson
But I don’t think that outweighs the number of new recruits.
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
But how many of those are the sort willing to take on their own membership to ensure there is a change in direction, and how many will vote for a non corbynite but then happily go along with the corbynite if they win under a one more heave strategy? Especially as they can always go the Phillips route 2017-2019 and just cry on twitter and do nothing if something bad comes up, and be confident it will come up less anyway than under Corbyn.
There are tentative signs that the wiser heads on the left get it. Certainly within my CLP there is pushback against the usual social media posts slagging off right wingers. There is a genuine desire to fins someone who can unite the party and get it on the right path.
Although Jonathan, unless I mis-remember, your CLP is based in the South East, and outside London, which is probably full of people, which are largely remainer Tories etc.
As such your CLP is probably more aware, and unlike a lot of urban labourites, not within a closed box echo chamber where tories and centre-right people don't exist.
It really doesn't work like that. You get a broad spectrum in most CLPs, including mine (in the SE). The pushback I am seeing is from the experienced heads on the left.
The thing we have to remember about Labour is the trade unions and their need for a ROI from Labour. TUs are seriously underestimated and get an undeserved bad press IMO.
I'll be starting my new years eve drinking soon so happy new decade everyone .At least it will be the first time in 20 years we know what the decade is called.
I found out today from a colleague wishing to transfer between armed response units of different police regions that Nottinghamshire Police now require new recruits to have a degree.
Yeah. Down on education. Who wants our police force to be well educated anyway?
You get degrees on how to fire guns now, we really are progressing.
I'll be starting my new years eve drinking soon so happy new decade everyone .At least it will be the first time in 20 years we know what the decade is called.
It’s the same decade as this one. The new one doesn’t start until 2021.
For the sake of your liver, don’t start drinking in the new decade yet!
I found out today from a colleague wishing to transfer between armed response units of different police regions that Nottinghamshire Police now require new recruits to have a degree.
Yeah. Down on education. Who wants our police force to be well educated anyway?
You get degrees on how to fire guns now, we really are progressing.
Well, I suppose sex education is about the best way to start banging.
Nicked from the comments on Guido - if only for the joyous rhyme of pro-bono and kimono.....
Reynard’s at the henhouse Ready for a feast Eyes up all those juicy chicks Four or five at least Jolyon’s swiftly on the case, (For once he acts Pro-bono) Sees off Reynard with some blows Clad in his kimono Reynard cruelly does expire Jolyon still bitter Flushed with pride his vulpicide He doth announce on Twitter. Sadly J, your actions here You shortly will be ruing Crazy guy with crazy specs This shall be your undoing.
Different PLP now Mr Dancer. It's got nutters like Claudia Webbe and Lloyd Russell Moyle in it.
PLP has lost Skinner and Pidcock.
And the compassionate calm Chris Williamson
But I don’t think that outweighs the number of new recruits.
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
But how many of those are the sort willing to take on their own membership to ensure there is a change in direction, and how many will vote for a non corbynite but then happily go along with the corbynite if they win under a one more heave strategy? Especially as they can always go the Phillips route 2017-2019 and just cry on twitter and do nothing if something bad comes up, and be confident it will come up less anyway than under Corbyn.
There are tentative signs that the wiser heads on the left get it. Certainly within my CLP there is pushback against the usual social media posts slagging off right wingers. There is a genuine desire to fins someone who can unite the party and get it on the right path.
Although Jonathan, unless I mis-remember, your CLP is based in the South East, and outside London, which is probably full of people, which are largely remainer Tories etc.
As such your CLP is probably more aware, and unlike a lot of urban labourites, not within a closed box echo chamber where tories and centre-right people don't exist.
It really doesn't work like that. You get a broad spectrum in most CLPs, including mine (in the SE). The pushback I am seeing is from the experienced heads on the left.
The thing we have to remember about Labour is the trade unions and their need for a ROI from Labour. TUs are seriously underestimated and get an undeserved bad press IMO.
Theres good reasons we need TUs. Unfortunately the most prominent figures tend only to get noticed for bad reasons.
It is perhaps worth remembering that if Labour did implode, another party would emerge to replace them. That might be the Liberal Democrats, the Greens or even a newly formed English Social Democracy grouping. FPTP is helpful to Labour if it ho,as together, but will ruin it should it fall apart as it’s voters look for alternatives.
Labour emerged as the principal party of opposition after 1918 due to the collapse of the Liberals, who were split into two factions. The Liberals did not collapse because of the emergence of Labour - it was very much a personality clash between Asquith and Lloyd George. As late as 1923, had the Liberals not been divided and confused they might still have challenged for power. But after 1923 they had clearly been replaced by Labour and did not reach 60 seats in an election again until 2005.
Given FPTP the more likely scenario is always to keep the party name, machine and develop what lies behind it.
The Tories are past masters at the this. Nominally he Tories have governed for years, but in truth they have been many different parties. In my lifetime at least three parties have rallied under the Tory banner with little to no consistency.
Thatcherite Economic Liberal (Thatcher) One Nation Conservative (Major, Cameron, May) Populist Nationalist (IDS, Johnson)
IDS was an unpopular nationalist.
Boris is just popular.
Hard-hat Man said "WE ❤ BORIS"
IDS was and still is just unpopular , an odious creep is about best you could say about him.
....whilst Labour offers what alternative, precisely?
A higher minimum wage likely is a good thing on its own merits. It's also a useful way for the State to offload its welfare responsibilities onto business.
Incidentally, if Labour also offered inflation busting rises in the minimum wage, which it almost certainly would do, the Tories would denounce it as a typically irresponsible attack on the ability to do business.
....whilst Labour offers what alternative, precisely?
Good use of numbers but in reality it will be peanuts , about 30p an hour after tax , add NI etc and you will not be leading the high life.
It’s £994 a year before tax. When you are on minimum wage that’s a massive boost. The problem with ramping these up is it costs enormously at the bottom of the pay scale for employers. Especially in areas like adult /children’s care, and externalised services.
Schools and old people homes are going to see their budgets shrink to cover these costs.
Different PLP now Mr Dancer. It's got nutters like Claudia Webbe and Lloyd Russell Moyle in it.
PLP has lost Skinner and Pidcock.
And the compassionate calm Chris Williamson
But I don’t think that outweighs the number of new recruits.
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
But how many of those are the sort willing to take on their own membership to ensure there is a change in direction, and how many will vote for a non corbynite but then happily go along with the corbynite if they win under a one more heave strategy? Especially as they can always go the Phillips route 2017-2019 and just cry on twitter and do nothing if something bad comes up, and be confident it will come up less anyway than under Corbyn.
There are tentative signs that the wiser heads on the left get it. Certainly within my CLP there is pushback against the usual social media posts slagging off right wingers. There is a genuine desire to fins someone who can unite the party and get it on the right path.
Although Jonathan, unless I mis-remember, your CLP is based in the South East, and outside London, which is probably full of people, which are largely remainer Tories etc.
As such your CLP is probably more aware, and unlike a lot of urban labourites, not within a closed box echo chamber where tories and centre-right people don't exist.
It really doesn't work like that. You get a broad spectrum in most CLPs, including mine (in the SE). The pushback I am seeing is from the experienced heads on the left.
The thing we have to remember about Labour is the trade unions and their need for a ROI from Labour. TUs are seriously underestimated and get an undeserved bad press IMO.
There are some nutjobs running the unions, good few of them do more looking after themselves much better than the members as well.
Malc, if you are not feeling to good, try some of these.. the nutrients within these are extremely beneficial and I understand are readily available in Scotland
....whilst Labour offers what alternative, precisely?
A higher minimum wage likely is a good thing on its own merits. It's also a useful way for the State to offload its welfare responsibilities onto business.
Incidentally, if Labour also offered inflation busting rises in the minimum wage, which it almost certainly would do, the Tories would denounce it as a typically irresponsible attack on the ability to do business.
Nah, I keep telling you, Boris shamelessly nicks the popular bits from his opponents.....
....whilst Labour offers what alternative, precisely?
Good use of numbers but in reality it will be peanuts , about 30p an hour after tax , add NI etc and you will not be leading the high life.
Pity the poor bastard that got reserructed - and had to come back as your bile duct, malc!
Hope the medical issue that has dogged you is on the mend. Happy New Year. May you have record turnip production on St. Nicola's Collective Farm.
Thank you Mark, I think/hope I am improving very very slowly even if it does not feel it a lot of the time, a nasty little virus indeed. Much more and I will need braces to hold my trousers up. Happy New Year to you and your family.
I'll be starting my new years eve drinking soon so happy new decade everyone .At least it will be the first time in 20 years we know what the decade is called.
It’s the same decade as this one. The new one doesn’t start until 2021.
For the sake of your liver, don’t start drinking in the new decade yet!
I don't think that argument works for decades how it works for centuries. The year 2000 was definitely the final year of the 20th century, but we're not calling the next decade 'the 203rd decade'. We'll surely call it the 2020s. If 2020 isn't in the 2020s it's a stupid system.
....whilst Labour offers what alternative, precisely?
Good use of numbers but in reality it will be peanuts , about 30p an hour after tax , add NI etc and you will not be leading the high life.
It’s £994 a year before tax. When you are on minimum wage that’s a massive boost. The problem with ramping these up is it costs enormously at the bottom of the pay scale for employers. Especially in areas like adult /children’s care, and externalised services.
Schools and old people homes are going to see their budgets shrink to cover these costs.
Old People's homes yes - why would schools? No one at a school will be on minimum wage including junior secretaries
Pre-school and out of school child care on the other hand is about to be subject to a 5-10% increase in costs.
....whilst Labour offers what alternative, precisely?
Good use of numbers but in reality it will be peanuts , about 30p an hour after tax , add NI etc and you will not be leading the high life.
It’s £994 a year before tax. When you are on minimum wage that’s a massive boost. The problem with ramping these up is it costs enormously at the bottom of the pay scale for employers. Especially in areas like adult /children’s care, and externalised services.
Schools and old people homes are going to see their budgets shrink to cover these costs.
Old People's homes yes - why would schools? No one at a school will be on minimum wage including junior secretaries
Pre-school and out of school child care on the other hand is about to be subject to a 5-10% increase in costs.
Cleaners are. So are most of the kitchen and maintenance staff. They can be more than a third of the staff in some schools.
....whilst Labour offers what alternative, precisely?
Good use of numbers but in reality it will be peanuts , about 30p an hour after tax , add NI etc and you will not be leading the high life.
It’s £994 a year before tax. When you are on minimum wage that’s a massive boost. The problem with ramping these up is it costs enormously at the bottom of the pay scale for employers. Especially in areas like adult /children’s care, and externalised services.
Schools and old people homes are going to see their budgets shrink to cover these costs.
I daresay it is a fair bit at that end of the scale, will be eaten up for sure mind you and no doubt some will go to government by clawback of benefits. They would be far better sorting out the tax system.
Malc, if you are not feeling to good, try some of these.. the nutrients within these are extremely beneficial and I understand are readily available in Scotland
....whilst Labour offers what alternative, precisely?
And a few more skills get dragged into the Minimum wage quagmire
Now I don't mind the minimum wage - it's essential but without productive gains we just add more and more skillsets and responsibilities into its net.
What is "its net"? Affordability is an argument to be had (though it doesn't have to be driven by productivity gains; it can also be redistributive; except at the margins of the bell curve, which is where the problems lie for marginal businesses). But I have not come across the argument that it is intrinsically bad to bring the base level up to that traditionally paid for more and more jobs? Although clearly there is a "risk" that upward pressure on wages up and down the chain to maintain differentials would come into play, that is the opposite of "adding jobs into its net".
What the Liberal left simply do not get is that most people are either not poor at all or do not wish to be made poor by paying extra taxes for those who they perceive to be shirkers. It doesn't really matter whether they are correct or not in that belief. People are happy with a safety net but not when it appears to encompass folk who they say as lazy or feckless. The language of the left is wholly focussed around food banks/bedroom taxes/minorities/wokeness, etc,etc. Oh and not to forget anti Israel/USA/Britain.... The only person they'd accept as a monarch is Queen Meghan and they'd happily see Owen Jones thrown from the rooftops. Those contradictions aside they're doomed I tell you doomed! Sedgefield, Dartford,Totnes, Copeland, Conwy, Walsall, Mansfield, Yarmouth and even Hastings don't want to know.
What the Liberal left simply do not get is that most people are either not poor at all or do not wish to be made poor by paying extra taxes for those who they perceive to be shirkers. It doesn't really matter whether they are correct or not in that belief. People are happy with a safety net but not when it appears to encompass folk who they say as lazy or feckless. The language of the left is wholly focussed around food banks/bedroom taxes/minorities/wokeness, etc,etc. Oh and not to forget anti Israel/USA/Britain.... The only person they'd accept as a monarch is Queen Meghan and they'd happily see Owen Jones thrown from the rooftops. Those contradictions aside they're doomed I tell you doomed! Sedgefield, Dartford,Totnes, Copeland, Conwy, Walsall, Mansfield, Yarmouth and even Hastings don't want to know.
Sedgefield seems to have a similar population to ... um ... Ross-on-Wye.
I don't think it's going back to Labour.
Norfolk had a few Labour MPs post-WW2, but apparently only because of the collective nature of agricultural workers, who were then well-unionised.
Thatcher must have known what she was doing. Tell them 'no such thing as society', destroy unionised labour, wait 40 years and they'll be voting to increase the power of capital vs. workers. Moreover they'll clamour to leave the EU and its workers' rights laws (the quid pro in a civilised society for 'taming the unions'.)
Comments
We'll see if the PLP has learnt its lesson.
Until a credible challenge to them from a left of centre party arrives those votes will largely stay with Labour. A party that wants to usurp Labour needs to challenge Labour for the voters in the seats that return left leaning candidates. Having a second left leaning party that puts all efforts into winning a handful or two tory seats is no challenge to Labour. For a left leaning party to become relevant and challenge Labour they need to fight to win Labour seats.
Right now Labour have no competition on the left, they can elect any old fool and continue to be the second party in parliament.
So their only option is to wait and wait and wait and hope that the Tories screw up, the people get bored of them, the government collapses, the pendulum swings back.
Their aim is to be the only other game in town. And they can't do that if they cede control to the moderates.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50947091
Here’s a full list of candidates backed by Momentum - it includes constituencies so you can work out who won and who didn’t. But I’d say it’s gone up from under 30 to around 40.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/leftwing-labour-mps-corbyn-selections-unite-momentum_uk_5dcd737be4b0a794d1fc1071
Edit - in relative terms, from around one-seventh to about one-fifth of the PLP.
Take that away and it might restore a chunk of Lab's vote. No matter how economically bonkers the policies might remain.
But what is happening instead? Encouraging people to join labour, as it's the only vehicle available. They've no challengers in England at least, and limited challenge in Wales from the left.
If at the next assembly elections Plaid split the left vote, which they failed to do in this election, Labour could have a problem.
And sensible Labour MPs have the recent and perfect example of how to pussyfoot around and screw things up by following the Tom Watson strategy of loyalty to a brand rather than the values behind it. If another idiot gets in they should walk en masse (but then, they should've done that, led by Watson, who instead managed to help destroy any chance Change UK had of success whilst failing to unseat Corbyn and his cadre from the front bench).
"Jeremy Corbyn has urged Labour to lead "the resistance" to Boris Johnson's Tory government over the coming year despite its crushing election defeat.
In his New Year message, the party's leader said it faced tough times ahead after its fourth defeat in a row but its movement remained "very strong".
He said there was "no other choice" but to continue the fight against poverty, inequality and climate change.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50945597
But in all seriousness it will be interesting to see if the wider membership, whether they loved the manifesto or not, can accept that a defeat of this scale requires new thinking and not doubling down. The noise of online outriders drowns that out.
Good luck, although at MP level at least there dont seem many strong characters. Hopefully they have hidden depths.
Labour emerged as the principal party of opposition after 1918 due to the collapse of the Liberals, who were split into two factions. The Liberals did not collapse because of the emergence of Labour - it was very much a personality clash between Asquith and Lloyd George. As late as 1923, had the Liberals not been divided and confused they might still have challenged for power. But after 1923 they had clearly been replaced by Labour and did not reach 60 seats in an election again until 2005.
The Tories are past masters at the this. Nominally he Tories have governed for years, but in truth they have been many different parties. In my lifetime at least three parties have rallied under the Tory banner with little to no consistency.
Thatcherite Economic Liberal (Thatcher)
One Nation Conservative (Major, Cameron, May)
Populist Nationalist (IDS, Johnson)
5,000,000 Facebook views = 500 new voters
Meanwhile, if you have the right arguments on the doorsteps.... What did Labour door-knockers say to move the conversation on if the potential voter said "No. Not whilst Corbyn...."?
Not sure whether Davey can fulfil that role but last time he lost because he 'wasn't a woman'.
However his climate change credentials might be enough to start carving out a better place for the LD's and seriously threaten Labour.
As long as Labour imply that the working class voters voted for poverty, inequality and destruction of the planet this will be not even a work in progress.
Boris is just popular.
Hard-hat Man said "WE ❤ BORIS"
As such your CLP is probably more aware, and unlike a lot of urban labourites, not within a closed box echo chamber where tories and centre-right people don't exist.
But, Mr. Corbyn, some get to do the top job, to wield power, before it all comes crashing down......
The rise is more than four times the rate of inflation and takes hourly pay for people over 25 to £8.72 from April.
Prime Minister Boris Johnson said: "For too long, people haven't seen the pay rises they deserve."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50947097
....whilst Labour offers what alternative, precisely?
The thing we have to remember about Labour is the trade unions and their need for a ROI from Labour. TUs are seriously underestimated and get an undeserved bad press IMO.
For the sake of your liver, don’t start drinking in the new decade yet!
Now I don't mind the minimum wage - it's essential but without productive gains we just add more and more skillsets and responsibilities into its net.
Reynard’s at the henhouse
Ready for a feast
Eyes up all those juicy chicks
Four or five at least
Jolyon’s swiftly on the case,
(For once he acts Pro-bono)
Sees off Reynard with some blows
Clad in his kimono
Reynard cruelly does expire
Jolyon still bitter
Flushed with pride his vulpicide
He doth announce on Twitter.
Sadly J, your actions here
You shortly will be ruing
Crazy guy with crazy specs
This shall be your undoing.
John Standley
It would be a better investment for its members than propping up the Labour Party.....
Hope the medical issue that has dogged you is on the mend. Happy New Year. May you have record turnip production on St. Nicola's Collective Farm.
Incidentally, if Labour also offered inflation busting rises in the minimum wage, which it almost certainly would do, the Tories would denounce it as a typically irresponsible attack on the ability to do business.
Schools and old people homes are going to see their budgets shrink to cover these costs.
https://tinyurl.com/t4panqp
Much more and I will need braces to hold my trousers up.
Happy New Year to you and your family.
Pre-school and out of school child care on the other hand is about to be subject to a 5-10% increase in costs.
I don't think it's going back to Labour.
Norfolk had a few Labour MPs post-WW2, but apparently only because of the collective nature of agricultural workers, who were then well-unionised.
Thatcher must have known what she was doing. Tell them 'no such thing as society', destroy unionised labour, wait 40 years and they'll be voting to increase the power of capital vs. workers. Moreover they'll clamour to leave the EU and its workers' rights laws (the quid pro in a civilised society for 'taming the unions'.)