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  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,743
    ydoethur said:

    Twitter

    John McDonnell has told shadow cabinet colleagues to stop asking him "are you alright?", telling them:

    "Normally when a socialist revolution fails they all get taken to a football stadium and shot, at least that hasn’t happened this time.”

    What a twat McDonnell is. He lives in a fully-functioning parliamentary democracy, not under the Arentinian junta. He belittles their efforts, their torture, their death for their cause, with his pathetic whining.
    At risk of being pedantic, the football stadium massacre was by Pinochet in Chile.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estadio_Nacional_Julio_Martínez_Prádanos#Use_as_a_detention_center
    Yes the Argentinian right wingers just chucked their left wingers out of helicopters over the Atlantic and stole their children.
  • Options
    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Funny how people who are so convinced in the virtue of the European Single Market being the One True Path that it is impossible to successfully diverge from are so convinced in their method being right and reasonable but can never name a SINGLE developed non-EU nation that has done worse than us over the past 27 years since the EU came to be.

    What are New Zealand's figures like over that period? I've heard it said that it is surprisingly poor and undeveloped for a "developed" country.
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    Funny how people who are so convinced in the virtue of the European Single Market being the One True Path that it is impossible to successfully diverge from are so convinced in their method being right and reasonable but can never name a SINGLE developed non-EU nation that has done worse than us over the past 27 years since the EU came to be.

    Which countries do you regard as coming in that category? Because Japan looks problematic for your second airy and ignorant generalisation of the day. And most of the rest are resource economies quite unlike the UK.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,326

    I’m no doctor but as a matter of observation, it is usually wise to reserve the use of medication for those occasions when you need it.

    My other half has never been one for taking pills. When he needed it, paracetamol was a very effective painkiller.

    Paracetamol doesn't work for everybody, and isn't very good even for those it does work. There is a whole ladder of painkiller options from the bottom to the top, and pain management is pretty much its own discipline. NHS provision depends on your state of health and diagnosis, but if you are unlucky enough to have large chronic pain and can get specific pain management, they can (within limits) tune the prescription to need. It's not like the States.
  • Options

    I’m no doctor but as a matter of observation, it is usually wise to reserve the use of medication for those occasions when you need it.

    My other half has never been one for taking pills. When he needed it, paracetamol was a very effective painkiller.

    Indeed, that's correct but paracetamol never really worked for me probably Because I'm a very tall individual.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,733
    rpjs said:

    Funny how people who are so convinced in the virtue of the European Single Market being the One True Path that it is impossible to successfully diverge from are so convinced in their method being right and reasonable but can never name a SINGLE developed non-EU nation that has done worse than us over the past 27 years since the EU came to be.

    What are New Zealand's figures like over that period? I've heard it said that it is surprisingly poor and undeveloped for a "developed" country.
    That's a lot to do with us joining the EU.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,639
    ydoethur said:

    Twitter

    John McDonnell has told shadow cabinet colleagues to stop asking him "are you alright?", telling them:

    "Normally when a socialist revolution fails they all get taken to a football stadium and shot, at least that hasn’t happened this time.”

    What a twat McDonnell is. He lives in a fully-functioning parliamentary democracy, not under the Arentinian junta. He belittles their efforts, their torture, their death for their cause, with his pathetic whining.
    At risk of being pedantic, the football stadium massacre was by Pinochet in Chile.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estadio_Nacional_Julio_Martínez_Prádanos#Use_as_a_detention_center
    Surely that's not the same Pinochet that Thatcher was best mates with?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,326

    rpjs said:

    Funny how people who are so convinced in the virtue of the European Single Market being the One True Path that it is impossible to successfully diverge from are so convinced in their method being right and reasonable but can never name a SINGLE developed non-EU nation that has done worse than us over the past 27 years since the EU came to be.

    What are New Zealand's figures like over that period? I've heard it said that it is surprisingly poor and undeveloped for a "developed" country.
    That's a lot to do with us joining the EU.
    So being outside the EU leads to underperformance???
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,743
    rpjs said:

    Funny how people who are so convinced in the virtue of the European Single Market being the One True Path that it is impossible to successfully diverge from are so convinced in their method being right and reasonable but can never name a SINGLE developed non-EU nation that has done worse than us over the past 27 years since the EU came to be.

    What are New Zealand's figures like over that period? I've heard it said that it is surprisingly poor and undeveloped for a "developed" country.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/10/26/england-vs-new-zealand-kiwis-might-grab-spoils-pitch-economic/

    We are ahead on GDP per capita, but I think the Kiwis have a better Gini Coefficient.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,032
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Twitter

    John McDonnell has told shadow cabinet colleagues to stop asking him "are you alright?", telling them:

    "Normally when a socialist revolution fails they all get taken to a football stadium and shot, at least that hasn’t happened this time.”

    What a twat McDonnell is. He lives in a fully-functioning parliamentary democracy, not under the Arentinian junta. He belittles their efforts, their torture, their death for their cause, with his pathetic whining.
    At risk of being pedantic, the football stadium massacre was by Pinochet in Chile.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estadio_Nacional_Julio_Martínez_Prádanos#Use_as_a_detention_center
    Yes the Argentinian right wingers just chucked their left wingers out of helicopters over the Atlantic and stole their children.
    Actually, they buried them under a fairground.....
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Twitter

    John McDonnell has told shadow cabinet colleagues to stop asking him "are you alright?", telling them:

    "Normally when a socialist revolution fails they all get taken to a football stadium and shot, at least that hasn’t happened this time.”

    What a twat McDonnell is. He lives in a fully-functioning parliamentary democracy, not under the Arentinian junta. He belittles their efforts, their torture, their death for their cause, with his pathetic whining.
    At risk of being pedantic, the football stadium massacre was by Pinochet in Chile.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estadio_Nacional_Julio_Martínez_Prádanos#Use_as_a_detention_center
    Yes the Argentinian right wingers just chucked their left wingers out of helicopters over the Atlantic and stole their children.
    You’ve missed the bit where they were forced to dance first.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,743
    edited December 2019
    In other news, checkout this week's Private Eye, in at number 1:


  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033
    edited December 2019

    ydoethur said:

    Twitter

    John McDonnell has told shadow cabinet colleagues to stop asking him "are you alright?", telling them:

    "Normally when a socialist revolution fails they all get taken to a football stadium and shot, at least that hasn’t happened this time.”

    What a twat McDonnell is. He lives in a fully-functioning parliamentary democracy, not under the Arentinian junta. He belittles their efforts, their torture, their death for their cause, with his pathetic whining.
    At risk of being pedantic, the football stadium massacre was by Pinochet in Chile.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estadio_Nacional_Julio_Martínez_Prádanos#Use_as_a_detention_center
    Surely that's not the same Pinochet that Thatcher was best mates with?
    It must be. There was only one Pinochet, after all (let us thank God for small mercies).

    Just as it was the same Nicolae Ceaucescu who was knighted by Callaghan in 1979.

    Who was it knighted Mugabe? I’ve got a feeling that was Thatcher, just after the Matabele war.

    Edit - turns out it was Major, in 1994.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,782
    It's that bloody time of year again, I need an excuse to get a club world flight in the J category. Any ideas on where to go?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033
    MaxPB said:

    It's that bloody time of year again, I need an excuse to get a club world flight in the J category. Any ideas on where to go?

    Java?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,326
    Foxy said:

    In other news, checkout this week's Private Eye, in at number 1:


    Go on, Arron! Well done my son!
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,247
    kinabalu said:

    I am not sure next year will be exciting, but it will definitely be fascinating.

    The promises Johnson has made are not all deliverable, so it will be interesting to see which ones fall by the wayside. I suspect it will be those relating to balancing the books as they are the easiest to break. He has to deliver on the public spending pledges. It would be political suicide not to.

    Labour members have a chance to at least begin to rebuild the party by rejecting the factionalism of the hard left in the leadership election. Anyone but Rebecca Long Bailey and Clive Lewis would be a step towards that - though it is going to be a long, hard journey. That's why the comforty blanket may be too tough to throw off.

    There is clearly going to be an ongoing confrontation between English naitonalism and Scottish nationalism inside the Westminster and Edinburgh Parliaments, on the airwaves and possibly on the streets. Too much Johnsonian goading of the Scots could end up backfiring. He will need to be careful.

    And there are indications of tectonic plates beginning to move in Northern Ireland. Unionism has a very tough task there. I wonder how much longer the tide can be held back. Again, much will depend on how Johnson plays things.

    I have found myself sleeping a lot better this last week. The unceertainty is over. That is a good thing, I can tell you! We are starting a new chapter in this country's history. I suspect it will be a pretty difficult one, but you never know.

    Nice post. I too am sleeping better since the election. But that is because politics suddenly seems less important somehow. Thus my interest in it and therefore the consequential tension has waned. Almost evaporated in fact. The country has resoundingly elected a (to me) utterly risible figure as PM - this "Boris" character - and c'est ca for the next 5 years at least. One hopes he turns out OK. What else is there to say?
    Sleep peacefully whilst the strong man looks after your interests.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,326
    edited December 2019
    MaxPB said:

    It's that bloody time of year again, I need an excuse to get a club world flight in the J category. Any ideas on where to go?

    I understand some of the words in that sentence. But not all. :(
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,308
    rpjs said:

    Funny how people who are so convinced in the virtue of the European Single Market being the One True Path that it is impossible to successfully diverge from are so convinced in their method being right and reasonable but can never name a SINGLE developed non-EU nation that has done worse than us over the past 27 years since the EU came to be.

    What are New Zealand's figures like over that period? I've heard it said that it is surprisingly poor and undeveloped for a "developed" country.
    The problem with @Philip_Thompson 's question is that the pool of countries to compare is tiny.

    Go back to 1992 and ask which countries:

    * Had between 66% and 150% of UK GDP per capita
    * Were roughly comparable sizes

    And you get: countries in the EU (or the EU orbit), resource dominated economies, and Japan
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,457
    viewcode said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's that bloody time of year again, I need an excuse to get a club world flight in the J category. Any ideas on where to go?

    I understand some of the words on that sentence. But not all. :(
    I think he needs a full-fare business class ticket, presumably to get to a specific mile requirement for BA's executive club.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Funny how people who are so convinced in the virtue of the European Single Market being the One True Path that it is impossible to successfully diverge from are so convinced in their method being right and reasonable but can never name a SINGLE developed non-EU nation that has done worse than us over the past 27 years since the EU came to be.

    Where is the science? Where is the evidence? This is why I switched from Remain to Leave during the campaign, because conversations with Mr Tyndall and Royale and others here were convincing as were Gove and Boris. The data just doesn't back Remain. The "theories" may be that the EU works but the evidence just isn't convincing.

    But to many here it is like arguing with religious fanatics. Their faith, their institution is right and the One True Path. Well I'm sorry but I'm an atheist and a sceptic by nature, I've argued with religious fanatics all my life. If you can't possibly contemplate how leaving the EU can possibly benefit the UK then you are a religious fanatic no better than any other.

    What about Japan?
    Fair point, Japan is an extraordinary exception to the rule, from 1985 to 1995 GDP per capita nearly quadrupled, I've always found the spike in Japan's growth in the late 80s/early 90s suspect. Its one thing the Chinese growing rapidly catching up with modern standards is one thing, the Japanese started off modern, shot off ahead of everyone then struggled. I don't think the UK is comparable.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,326
    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's that bloody time of year again, I need an excuse to get a club world flight in the J category. Any ideas on where to go?

    I understand some of the words in that sentence. But not all. :(
    I think he needs a full-fare business class ticket, presumably to get to a specific mile requirement for BA's executive club.
    Ah. Thank you.
  • Options
    rpjs said:

    Funny how people who are so convinced in the virtue of the European Single Market being the One True Path that it is impossible to successfully diverge from are so convinced in their method being right and reasonable but can never name a SINGLE developed non-EU nation that has done worse than us over the past 27 years since the EU came to be.

    What are New Zealand's figures like over that period? I've heard it said that it is surprisingly poor and undeveloped for a "developed" country.
    Very comparable to the UKs.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,457
    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's that bloody time of year again, I need an excuse to get a club world flight in the J category. Any ideas on where to go?

    I understand some of the words in that sentence. But not all. :(
    I think he needs a full-fare business class ticket, presumably to get to a specific mile requirement for BA's executive club.
    Ah. Thank you.
    Most welcome. I pity the poor buggers in business class though. :p
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,782
    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's that bloody time of year again, I need an excuse to get a club world flight in the J category. Any ideas on where to go?

    I understand some of the words on that sentence. But not all. :(
    I think he needs a full-fare business class ticket, presumably to get to a specific mile requirement for BA's executive club.
    Indeed. J has the 250% on Avios as well which is very handy.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,743
    edited December 2019
    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    Funny how people who are so convinced in the virtue of the European Single Market being the One True Path that it is impossible to successfully diverge from are so convinced in their method being right and reasonable but can never name a SINGLE developed non-EU nation that has done worse than us over the past 27 years since the EU came to be.

    What are New Zealand's figures like over that period? I've heard it said that it is surprisingly poor and undeveloped for a "developed" country.
    The problem with @Philip_Thompson 's question is that the pool of countries to compare is tiny.

    Go back to 1992 and ask which countries:

    * Had between 66% and 150% of UK GDP per capita
    * Were roughly comparable sizes

    And you get: countries in the EU (or the EU orbit), resource dominated economies, and Japan
    Perhaps Argentina or Uruguay would be a fairer comparison.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,223

    Funny how people who are so convinced in the virtue of the European Single Market being the One True Path that it is impossible to successfully diverge from are so convinced in their method being right and reasonable but can never name a SINGLE developed non-EU nation that has done worse than us over the past 27 years since the EU came to be.

    Where is the science? Where is the evidence? This is why I switched from Remain to Leave during the campaign, because conversations with Mr Tyndall and Royale and others here were convincing as were Gove and Boris. The data just doesn't back Remain. The "theories" may be that the EU works but the evidence just isn't convincing.

    But to many here it is like arguing with religious fanatics. Their faith, their institution is right and the One True Path. Well I'm sorry but I'm an atheist and a sceptic by nature, I've argued with religious fanatics all my life. If you can't possibly contemplate how leaving the EU can possibly benefit the UK then you are a religious fanatic no better than any other.

    Tyndall, Royale and Gove - all OK at a pinch - but Boris?

    You were convinced by Boris?

    That is quite something.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,308

    rcs1000 said:

    Funny how people who are so convinced in the virtue of the European Single Market being the One True Path that it is impossible to successfully diverge from are so convinced in their method being right and reasonable but can never name a SINGLE developed non-EU nation that has done worse than us over the past 27 years since the EU came to be.

    Where is the science? Where is the evidence? This is why I switched from Remain to Leave during the campaign, because conversations with Mr Tyndall and Royale and others here were convincing as were Gove and Boris. The data just doesn't back Remain. The "theories" may be that the EU works but the evidence just isn't convincing.

    But to many here it is like arguing with religious fanatics. Their faith, their institution is right and the One True Path. Well I'm sorry but I'm an atheist and a sceptic by nature, I've argued with religious fanatics all my life. If you can't possibly contemplate how leaving the EU can possibly benefit the UK then you are a religious fanatic no better than any other.

    What about Japan?
    Fair point, Japan is an extraordinary exception to the rule, from 1985 to 1995 GDP per capita nearly quadrupled, I've always found the spike in Japan's growth in the late 80s/early 90s suspect. Its one thing the Chinese growing rapidly catching up with modern standards is one thing, the Japanese started off modern, shot off ahead of everyone then struggled. I don't think the UK is comparable.
    Turn your question around, which countries that are not in the EEA and didn't benefit from the resources boom, have done better?

    Because almost all the comparisons of countries that have done much better than us (Australia, Canada) are ones which have massive raw materials exports.

  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,782
    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's that bloody time of year again, I need an excuse to get a club world flight in the J category. Any ideas on where to go?

    I understand some of the words in that sentence. But not all. :(
    I think he needs a full-fare business class ticket, presumably to get to a specific mile requirement for BA's executive club.
    Ah. Thank you.
    Most welcome. I pity the poor buggers in business class though. :p
    Don't think I'd be able to expense a ticket in first anywhere!
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,639
    MaxPB said:

    It's that bloody time of year again, I need an excuse to get a club world flight in the J category. Any ideas on where to go?

    Trailfinders
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,326
    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's that bloody time of year again, I need an excuse to get a club world flight in the J category. Any ideas on where to go?

    I understand some of the words in that sentence. But not all. :(
    I think he needs a full-fare business class ticket, presumably to get to a specific mile requirement for BA's executive club.
    Ah. Thank you.
    Most welcome. I pity the poor buggers in business class though. :p
    I shall apply the appropriate level of sympathy... :)
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,782

    MaxPB said:

    It's that bloody time of year again, I need an excuse to get a club world flight in the J category. Any ideas on where to go?

    Trailfinders
    Can't be a holiday. Need to at least make it look like it's relevant to the company.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,308
    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's that bloody time of year again, I need an excuse to get a club world flight in the J category. Any ideas on where to go?

    I understand some of the words on that sentence. But not all. :(
    I think he needs a full-fare business class ticket, presumably to get to a specific mile requirement for BA's executive club.
    Indeed. J has the 250% on Avios as well which is very handy.
    I find that you can collect Executive Club points very cheaply in the US flying domestic First Class. I'm flying LAX to San Jose next month, and my first class ticket was $91. That's less than £2/TP.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    edited December 2019

    It is quite bemusing to see people who have argued that the country made a big mistake in not listening to a large part of the country advocating that half the country needs to be ignored and/or need to shut up and be more positive about our future.

    I do wish the current govt and its trade policy well, we shall see, I will judge by actions not soundbites or promises. So far we have had removal of workers rights, refugee children rights, loss of parliamentary scrutiny and given the executive license to negotiate deals outside their own political declaration. Not exactly a promising start.


    I like Alastair was amazed that so little debate about the economy was undertaken during the election. In Germany the troubles of the motor industry are a daily debate but the potential destruction of the UK industry seems to be met with a shrug of the shoulders. The only action of BJ has been to cut business rates for small shops which is rearranging deckchairs activity and will have almost zero impact on our economy.

    I too have been amazed. I did write a thread header suggesting that we ought to discuss in a bit more detail, any detail, in fact, how we would trade post-Brexit. But was poo-poohed by some on here. And Boris and co seem to be taking the same approach. They are now saying that the voters, the poor dears, don’t want their pretty little heads bothered by the details of trade deals so they won’t talk about them.

    The fact that these details could spell the end of certain sectors (agriculture, for instance) seems to be an irrelevance.

    I must say I laughed at the suggestion made up thread that one of Brexit’s advantages is that there will be nowhere for our politicians to hide. On the contrary, Brexiteer politicians are now doing their level best to avoid any sort of scrutiny at all, starting from the very top. They may no longer blame the EU but they will, I am quite certain, in future say that it was all in the FTA and therefore nothing to be done.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,733
    viewcode said:

    rpjs said:

    Funny how people who are so convinced in the virtue of the European Single Market being the One True Path that it is impossible to successfully diverge from are so convinced in their method being right and reasonable but can never name a SINGLE developed non-EU nation that has done worse than us over the past 27 years since the EU came to be.

    What are New Zealand's figures like over that period? I've heard it said that it is surprisingly poor and undeveloped for a "developed" country.
    That's a lot to do with us joining the EU.
    So being outside the EU leads to underperformance???
    In New Zealand's case it did. Although they didn't have any choice.
  • Options

    'As with the Conservatives in England and Wales, the SNP will probably incorrectly conclude that their victory was won by their own popularity.'

    Au contraire, this supporter believes that the biggest asset for the SNP has always been the ball aching mediocrity (and in some cases ghastliness) of their opposition. I see not the slightest indication that this is going to change.

    +1

    I don’t see much sign that the SNP are particularly popular. It is just that the Opposition are profoundly unpopular.

    The SNP are moderately competent, which is a huge competitive advantage in the current market for votes.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,782
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's that bloody time of year again, I need an excuse to get a club world flight in the J category. Any ideas on where to go?

    I understand some of the words on that sentence. But not all. :(
    I think he needs a full-fare business class ticket, presumably to get to a specific mile requirement for BA's executive club.
    Indeed. J has the 250% on Avios as well which is very handy.
    I find that you can collect Executive Club points very cheaply in the US flying domestic First Class. I'm flying LAX to San Jose next month, and my first class ticket was $91. That's less than £2/TP.
    Wow, that's incredible. Maybe a trip to the US office in that case.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    Funny how people who are so convinced in the virtue of the European Single Market being the One True Path that it is impossible to successfully diverge from are so convinced in their method being right and reasonable but can never name a SINGLE developed non-EU nation that has done worse than us over the past 27 years since the EU came to be.

    Where is the science? Where is the evidence? This is why I switched from Remain to Leave during the campaign, because conversations with Mr Tyndall and Royale and others here were convincing as were Gove and Boris. The data just doesn't back Remain. The "theories" may be that the EU works but the evidence just isn't convincing.

    But to many here it is like arguing with religious fanatics. Their faith, their institution is right and the One True Path. Well I'm sorry but I'm an atheist and a sceptic by nature, I've argued with religious fanatics all my life. If you can't possibly contemplate how leaving the EU can possibly benefit the UK then you are a religious fanatic no better than any other.

    Tyndall, Royale and Gove - all OK at a pinch - but Boris?

    You were convinced by Boris?

    That is quite something.
    Yes - not his arguments, Gove was the more convincing.

    I despise Farage and everything he stands for. I never took Leave seriously as long as it was fronted by the likes of Farage. However having liberal Conservative politicians like Gove and Johnson front Brexit reassured me. Demonstrated that there were a class of liberal Conservative politicians who could lead the country without turning it into a xenophobic cesspit like Farage would.

    Johnson essentially helped "detox" Leave for me.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033

    However having liberal Conservative politicians like Gove and Johnson front Brexit reassured me.

    Bloody hell. If you consider Gove a liberal, I hope I never meet someone you consider a reactionary autocrat.
  • Options

    'As with the Conservatives in England and Wales, the SNP will probably incorrectly conclude that their victory was won by their own popularity.'

    Au contraire, this supporter believes that the biggest asset for the SNP has always been the ball aching mediocrity (and in some cases ghastliness) of their opposition. I see not the slightest indication that this is going to change.

    +1

    I don’t see much sign that the SNP are particularly popular. It is just that the Opposition are profoundly unpopular.

    The SNP are moderately competent, which is a huge competitive advantage in the current market for votes.
    And by what, pray tell, is the metric used for “moderately competent”???
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033
    edited December 2019

    'As with the Conservatives in England and Wales, the SNP will probably incorrectly conclude that their victory was won by their own popularity.'

    Au contraire, this supporter believes that the biggest asset for the SNP has always been the ball aching mediocrity (and in some cases ghastliness) of their opposition. I see not the slightest indication that this is going to change.

    +1

    I don’t see much sign that the SNP are particularly popular. It is just that the Opposition are profoundly unpopular.

    The SNP are moderately competent, which is a huge competitive advantage in the current market for votes.
    At the moment, to cold-eyed outsiders they do not look especially competent.

    However, as the man pursued by a bear noted when putting on running shoes, all they have to do is stay of Richard Leonard.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,308
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's that bloody time of year again, I need an excuse to get a club world flight in the J category. Any ideas on where to go?

    I understand some of the words on that sentence. But not all. :(
    I think he needs a full-fare business class ticket, presumably to get to a specific mile requirement for BA's executive club.
    Indeed. J has the 250% on Avios as well which is very handy.
    I find that you can collect Executive Club points very cheaply in the US flying domestic First Class. I'm flying LAX to San Jose next month, and my first class ticket was $91. That's less than £2/TP.
    Wow, that's incredible. Maybe a trip to the US office in that case.
    Where is your US office?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,308
    For those with residual Mayor Pete positions, this is a good piece: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/12/political-case-for-mayor-pete-buttigieg.html
  • Options
    "The Prime Minister complained that EU citizens felt at home in Britain."

    Citation required
  • Options

    'As with the Conservatives in England and Wales, the SNP will probably incorrectly conclude that their victory was won by their own popularity.'

    Au contraire, this supporter believes that the biggest asset for the SNP has always been the ball aching mediocrity (and in some cases ghastliness) of their opposition. I see not the slightest indication that this is going to change.

    +1

    I don’t see much sign that the SNP are particularly popular. It is just that the Opposition are profoundly unpopular.

    The SNP are moderately competent, which is a huge competitive advantage in the current market for votes.
    Similar to labour in Wales..
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,782
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's that bloody time of year again, I need an excuse to get a club world flight in the J category. Any ideas on where to go?

    I understand some of the words on that sentence. But not all. :(
    I think he needs a full-fare business class ticket, presumably to get to a specific mile requirement for BA's executive club.
    Indeed. J has the 250% on Avios as well which is very handy.
    I find that you can collect Executive Club points very cheaply in the US flying domestic First Class. I'm flying LAX to San Jose next month, and my first class ticket was $91. That's less than £2/TP.
    Wow, that's incredible. Maybe a trip to the US office in that case.
    Where is your US office?
    Madison Avenue, I haven't been there yet so could be a good excuse.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033

    'As with the Conservatives in England and Wales, the SNP will probably incorrectly conclude that their victory was won by their own popularity.'

    Au contraire, this supporter believes that the biggest asset for the SNP has always been the ball aching mediocrity (and in some cases ghastliness) of their opposition. I see not the slightest indication that this is going to change.

    +1

    I don’t see much sign that the SNP are particularly popular. It is just that the Opposition are profoundly unpopular.

    The SNP are moderately competent, which is a huge competitive advantage in the current market for votes.
    Similar to labour in Wales..
    I don’t think anyone would accuse Mark Drakeford of being moderately competent.
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    ydoethur said:

    However having liberal Conservative politicians like Gove and Johnson front Brexit reassured me.

    Bloody hell. If you consider Gove a liberal, I hope I never meet someone you consider a reactionary autocrat.
    What's Gove done that is illiberal? His reforms as Justice secretary were very liberalising, as have been his reforms when he was at DEFRA.

    I know you dislike his education reforms but they were not illiberal.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033

    ydoethur said:

    However having liberal Conservative politicians like Gove and Johnson front Brexit reassured me.

    Bloody hell. If you consider Gove a liberal, I hope I never meet someone you consider a reactionary autocrat.
    What's Gove done that is illiberal? His reforms as Justice secretary were very liberalising, as have been his reforms when he was at DEFRA.

    I know you dislike his education reforms but they were not illiberal.
    The way he forced them through using threats over expert advice far too fast while pushing his personal view of what should or should not be taught can hardly be characterised as ‘liberal.’

    It would have mattered less if he and Cummings had known what they were doing, but they didn’t.
  • Options
    JBriskinindyref2JBriskinindyref2 Posts: 1,775
    edited December 2019

    ydoethur said:

    However having liberal Conservative politicians like Gove and Johnson front Brexit reassured me.

    Bloody hell. If you consider Gove a liberal, I hope I never meet someone you consider a reactionary autocrat.
    What's Gove done that is illiberal? His reforms as Justice secretary were very liberalising, as have been his reforms when he was at DEFRA.

    I know you dislike his education reforms but they were not illiberal.
    His education reforms were quite bizarre.

    He changed the system for GSCEs so it went from 1-7 (with 7 being the highest) - was he aware that Standard Grade's (Scotland's equivalent to GSCEs) went from 1-7 (with 7 being the lowest). Whats' the Story (morning glory) with that???
  • Options
    ClippPClippP Posts: 1,811
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    However having liberal Conservative politicians like Gove and Johnson front Brexit reassured me.

    Bloody hell. If you consider Gove a liberal, I hope I never meet someone you consider a reactionary autocrat.
    What's Gove done that is illiberal? His reforms as Justice secretary were very liberalising, as have been his reforms when he was at DEFRA.
    I know you dislike his education reforms but they were not illiberal.
    The way he forced them through using threats over expert advice far too fast while pushing his personal view of what should or should not be taught can hardly be characterised as ‘liberal.’
    It would have mattered less if he and Cummings had known what they were doing, but they didn’t.
    Just an exercise of their naked power, and pretty brutal too. Very unpleasant people.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,223
    edited December 2019
    Jonathan said:

    Sleep peacefully whilst the strong man looks after your interests.

    :smile:

    I will snap out of it. But for now, torpor reigns as regards me and British politics. The war is over. They won.

    Today, for example, I tried to get myself fired up about whether "Boris" will do a closely aligned FTA or more of a softhead ERG type thing. But I just couldn't. I found that I quite literally did not give a toss.

    Thoughts drifted instead to Wet Wet Wet and in particular their vocalist, Marti Pellow and how underrated he was (and is). He could not only hold a tune, he sang with flair and feeling too. It got me musing about WHY he does not enjoy the stature and kudos of certain others who are nothing like as good as he was (and is). This question seemed to me to be more important than what "Boris" does with his FTA.

    Even better, it's a question that after much thought I can answer with some confidence. I think it's because he had that massive commercial success with Love Is All Around (Us). It stayed number one for something stupid like 16 weeks. I suspect that this in some perverse way acted to rob him of artistic credibility. Unfair and rather sad if that's the case.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033

    ydoethur said:

    However having liberal Conservative politicians like Gove and Johnson front Brexit reassured me.

    Bloody hell. If you consider Gove a liberal, I hope I never meet someone you consider a reactionary autocrat.
    What's Gove done that is illiberal? His reforms as Justice secretary were very liberalising, as have been his reforms when he was at DEFRA.

    I know you dislike his education reforms but they were not illiberal.
    His education reforms were quite bizarre.

    He changed the system for GSCEs so it went from 1-7 (with 7 being the highest) - was he aware that Standard Grade's (Scotland's equivalent to GSCEs) went from 1-7 (with 7 being the lowest). Whats' the Story (morning glory) with that???
    1-9, to be accurate.
  • Options

    Omnium said:

    Sir_Geoff said:

    Cookie said:

    Oh Alistair. It's cliched to be cynical at Christmas.

    An unexpected but welcome Half Man Half Biscuit reference.
    But how many of you saw them live?
    I'd hazard a guess at none. I presume they're best known through John Peel's advocacy. I never quite understood his enthusiasm there.
    Saw them play in Brum, mid 80's. Arrived very late on stage, having been to see Tranmere play first....
    Saw them play in Glasgow 13/10/17. Good gig, shit venue, happily it was condemned after the second Art School fire.
  • Options
    JBriskinindyref2JBriskinindyref2 Posts: 1,775
    edited December 2019
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    However having liberal Conservative politicians like Gove and Johnson front Brexit reassured me.

    Bloody hell. If you consider Gove a liberal, I hope I never meet someone you consider a reactionary autocrat.
    What's Gove done that is illiberal? His reforms as Justice secretary were very liberalising, as have been his reforms when he was at DEFRA.

    I know you dislike his education reforms but they were not illiberal.
    His education reforms were quite bizarre.

    He changed the system for GSCEs so it went from 1-7 (with 7 being the highest) - was he aware that Standard Grade's (Scotland's equivalent to GSCEs) went from 1-7 (with 7 being the lowest). Whats' the Story (morning glory) with that???
    1-9, to be accurate.
    My bad. I've always disliked disharmony between Scottish and English systems (law, education, health etc).

    Hopefully, once the (competent LOL) SNP are destroyed this disharmony can be extinguished in earnest.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,438
    kinabalu said:

    I am not sure next year will be exciting, but it will definitely be fascinating.

    The promises Johnson has made are not all deliverable, so it will be interesting to see which ones fall by the wayside. I suspect it will be those relating to balancing the books as they are the easiest to break. He has to deliver on the public spending pledges. It would be political suicide not to.

    Labour members have a chance to at least begin to rebuild the party by rejecting the factionalism of the hard left in the leadership election. Anyone but Rebecca Long Bailey and Clive Lewis would be a step towards that - though it is going to be a long, hard journey. That's why the comforty blanket may be too tough to throw off.

    There is clearly going to be an ongoing confrontation between English naitonalism and Scottish nationalism inside the Westminster and Edinburgh Parliaments, on the airwaves and possibly on the streets. Too much Johnsonian goading of the Scots could end up backfiring. He will need to be careful.

    And there are indications of tectonic plates beginning to move in Northern Ireland. Unionism has a very tough task there. I wonder how much longer the tide can be held back. Again, much will depend on how Johnson plays things.

    I have found myself sleeping a lot better this last week. The unceertainty is over. That is a good thing, I can tell you! We are starting a new chapter in this country's history. I suspect it will be a pretty difficult one, but you never know.

    Nice post. I too am sleeping better since the election. But that is because politics suddenly seems less important somehow. Thus my interest in it and therefore the consequential tension has waned. Almost evaporated in fact. The country has resoundingly elected a (to me) utterly risible figure as PM - this "Boris" character - and c'est ca for the next 5 years at least. One hopes he turns out OK. What else is there to say?
    +1. I'm always pretty chilled about life, but I definitely feel a die has been cast, so we may as well accept it and study the outcome with interest.

    I'm not yet sure that Lewis is especially left-wing - there's the stuff on listening to members, which is too vague to be meanginful, but mainly his record suggests being very pro-EU and very pro-PR, which gives an interesting basis for discussion with the LibDems.
  • Options
    JBriskinindyref2JBriskinindyref2 Posts: 1,775
    edited December 2019
    deleted duplicate
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    However having liberal Conservative politicians like Gove and Johnson front Brexit reassured me.

    Bloody hell. If you consider Gove a liberal, I hope I never meet someone you consider a reactionary autocrat.
    What's Gove done that is illiberal? His reforms as Justice secretary were very liberalising, as have been his reforms when he was at DEFRA.

    I know you dislike his education reforms but they were not illiberal.
    His education reforms were quite bizarre.

    He changed the system for GSCEs so it went from 1-7 (with 7 being the highest) - was he aware that Standard Grade's (Scotland's equivalent to GSCEs) went from 1-7 (with 7 being the lowest). Whats' the Story (morning glory) with that???
    Check the International Baccalaureate and other systems. Under the IB (which is what I did) 7 is the highest.
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    However having liberal Conservative politicians like Gove and Johnson front Brexit reassured me.

    Bloody hell. If you consider Gove a liberal, I hope I never meet someone you consider a reactionary autocrat.
    What's Gove done that is illiberal? His reforms as Justice secretary were very liberalising, as have been his reforms when he was at DEFRA.

    I know you dislike his education reforms but they were not illiberal.
    His education reforms were quite bizarre.

    He changed the system for GSCEs so it went from 1-7 (with 7 being the highest) - was he aware that Standard Grade's (Scotland's equivalent to GSCEs) went from 1-7 (with 7 being the lowest). Whats' the Story (morning glory) with that???
    Check the International Baccalaureate and other systems. Under the IB (which is what I did) 7 is the highest.
    Thanks, as someone has noted apparently 9 is the highest.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,223
    edited December 2019
    Dupe.
  • Options
    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1208149233246916608?s=20

    I believe some on here have won some money.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,223

    Yes - not his arguments, Gove was the more convincing.

    I despise Farage and everything he stands for. I never took Leave seriously as long as it was fronted by the likes of Farage. However having liberal Conservative politicians like Gove and Johnson front Brexit reassured me. Demonstrated that there were a class of liberal Conservative politicians who could lead the country without turning it into a xenophobic cesspit like Farage would.

    Johnson essentially helped "detox" Leave for me.

    OK. But please note that he has secured power and Brexit by winning over a bunch of WWC people in Labour heartlands who are most definitively NOT liberal conservatives. And please reflect on what that might mean. For him, for you, for them, for the UK.

    NB: Don't take this the wrong way. Things might work out how you hope/think they will. I am just asking you to reflect. Only and literally that. You don't need to answer because it could only be either (i) yes you will reflect, which you don't need to say, indeed it would sound a bit silly, or (ii) no, you refuse to do any reflecting, which would sound bombastic and reprehensible.
  • Options
    JBriskinindyref2JBriskinindyref2 Posts: 1,775
    edited December 2019
    kinabalu said:



    OK. But please note that he has secured power and Brexit by winning over a bunch of WWC people in Labour heartlands who are most definitively NOT liberal conservatives. And please reflect on what that might mean. For him, for you, for them, for the UK.

    NB: Don't take this the wrong way. Things might work out how you hope/think they will. I am just asking you to reflect. Only and literally that. You don't need to answer because it could only be either (i) yes you will reflect, which you don't need to say, indeed it would sound a bit silly, or (ii) no, you refuse to do any reflecting, which would sound bombastic and reprehensible.

    Yes the WWC are a bunch of idiotic racists - we all know this, the remainiacs keep telling us - and some of us have to live with them
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    However having liberal Conservative politicians like Gove and Johnson front Brexit reassured me.

    Bloody hell. If you consider Gove a liberal, I hope I never meet someone you consider a reactionary autocrat.
    What's Gove done that is illiberal? His reforms as Justice secretary were very liberalising, as have been his reforms when he was at DEFRA.

    I know you dislike his education reforms but they were not illiberal.
    His education reforms were quite bizarre.

    He changed the system for GSCEs so it went from 1-7 (with 7 being the highest) - was he aware that Standard Grade's (Scotland's equivalent to GSCEs) went from 1-7 (with 7 being the lowest). Whats' the Story (morning glory) with that???
    Check the International Baccalaureate and other systems. Under the IB (which is what I did) 7 is the highest.
    Thanks, as someone has noted apparently 9 is the highest.
    Perhaps but under the IB it is (or was 20 years ago when I did it) graded 1 (lowest) to 7 (highest). So highest number being highest is not unprecedented.

    In the IB it is 6 subjects scored out of 7, plus 3 bonus points available from your Extended Essay and Theory of Knowledge, meaning a maximum of 45.
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    However having liberal Conservative politicians like Gove and Johnson front Brexit reassured me.

    Bloody hell. If you consider Gove a liberal, I hope I never meet someone you consider a reactionary autocrat.
    What's Gove done that is illiberal? His reforms as Justice secretary were very liberalising, as have been his reforms when he was at DEFRA.

    I know you dislike his education reforms but they were not illiberal.
    His education reforms were quite bizarre.

    He changed the system for GSCEs so it went from 1-7 (with 7 being the highest) - was he aware that Standard Grade's (Scotland's equivalent to GSCEs) went from 1-7 (with 7 being the lowest). Whats' the Story (morning glory) with that???
    Check the International Baccalaureate and other systems. Under the IB (which is what I did) 7 is the highest.
    Thanks, as someone has noted apparently 9 is the highest.
    Perhaps but under the IB it is (or was 20 years ago when I did it) graded 1 (lowest) to 7 (highest). So highest number being highest is not unprecedented.

    In the IB it is 6 subjects scored out of 7, plus 3 bonus points available from your Extended Essay and Theory of Knowledge, meaning a maximum of 45.
    Yeah I got your point the first time. Thanks.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    Yes - not his arguments, Gove was the more convincing.

    I despise Farage and everything he stands for. I never took Leave seriously as long as it was fronted by the likes of Farage. However having liberal Conservative politicians like Gove and Johnson front Brexit reassured me. Demonstrated that there were a class of liberal Conservative politicians who could lead the country without turning it into a xenophobic cesspit like Farage would.

    Johnson essentially helped "detox" Leave for me.

    OK. But please note that he has secured power and Brexit by winning over a bunch of WWC people in Labour heartlands who are most definitively NOT liberal conservatives. And please reflect on what that might mean. For him, for you, for them, for the UK.

    NB: Don't take this the wrong way. Things might work out how you hope/think they will. I am just asking you to reflect. Only and literally that. You don't need to answer because it could only be either (i) yes you will reflect, which you don't need to say, indeed it would sound a bit silly, or (ii) no, you refuse to do any reflecting, which would sound bombastic and reprehensible.
    Indeed I do reflect on that. No offence intended but as a Northerner I find the idea that we Northerners are all just social conservatives to be somewhat condescending. I hope that the Tories can help improve the lot of people up here via Conservative principles and if they do then I hope the seats up here stay blue. Win, win both for the party and for people up here.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,743
    Aaron Bell featuring heavily on #lastleg now, looking quite youthful.
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sleep peacefully whilst the strong man looks after your interests.

    :smile:

    I will snap out of it. But for now, torpor reigns as regards me and British politics. The war is over. They won.

    Today, for example, I tried to get myself fired up about whether "Boris" will do a closely aligned FTA or more of a softhead ERG type thing. But I just couldn't. I found that I quite literally did not give a toss.

    Thoughts drifted instead to Wet Wet Wet and in particular their vocalist, Marti Pellow and how underrated he was (and is). He could not only hold a tune, he sang with flair and feeling too. It got me musing about WHY he does not enjoy the stature and kudos of certain others who are nothing like as good as he was (and is). This question seemed to me to be more important than what "Boris" does with his FTA.

    Even better, it's a question that after much thought I can answer with some confidence. I think it's because he had that massive commercial success with Love Is All Around (Us). It stayed number one for something stupid like 16 weeks. I suspect that this in some perverse way acted to rob him of artistic credibility. Unfair and rather sad if that's the case.
    You'll know you've completely stopped caring when you forget to put the inverted commas around Boris... :wink:
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Aaron Bell featuring heavily on #lastleg now, looking quite youthful.

    Now he's got a dot Westminster (or whatever) email hopefully he will continue to post here.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Aaron Bell featuring heavily on #lastleg now, looking quite youthful.

    :lol: My wife is watching the show in the background as I waste time looking at political news. Then I heard the words 'Aaron Bell' and thought 'hmm, that sounds familiar"

  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    'As with the Conservatives in England and Wales, the SNP will probably incorrectly conclude that their victory was won by their own popularity.'

    Au contraire, this supporter believes that the biggest asset for the SNP has always been the ball aching mediocrity (and in some cases ghastliness) of their opposition. I see not the slightest indication that this is going to change.

    +1

    I don’t see much sign that the SNP are particularly popular. It is just that the Opposition are profoundly unpopular.

    The SNP are moderately competent, which is a huge competitive advantage in the current market for votes.
    Similar to labour in Wales..
    I don’t think anyone would accuse Mark Drakeford of being moderately competent.
    I mean in terms of the opposition is poor.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,223

    I'm always pretty chilled about life, but I definitely feel a die has been cast, so we may as well accept it and study the outcome with interest.

    I'm not yet sure that Lewis is especially left-wing - there's the stuff on listening to members, which is too vague to be meanginful, but mainly his record suggests being very pro-EU and very pro-PR, which gives an interesting basis for discussion with the LibDems.

    Not sure who I will be voting for. I genuinely have a completely open mind on it at this point. Only thing I'm sure about is that I don't want the party going all timid. Come the next election there has to be some people who are scared of a Labour government. It just has to be the right people. If nobody is scared, that means nothing much is expected to change.
  • Options
    That 50% approval thing for Trump is scary. Really looks like the Democrats are screwing this up :(
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1208149233246916608?s=20

    I believe some on here have won some money.

    I didn't get on, Gavin and Stacey odds on for top TV Christmas show.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,743

    kinabalu said:

    I am not sure next year will be exciting, but it will definitely be fascinating.

    The promises Johnson has made are not all deliverable, so it will be interesting to see which ones fall by the wayside. I suspect it will be those relating to balancing the books as they are the easiest to break. He has to deliver on the public spending pledges. It would be political suicide not to.

    Labour members have a chance to at least begin to rebuild the party by rejecting the factionalism of the hard left in the leadership election. Anyone but Rebecca Long Bailey and Clive Lewis would be a step towards that - though it is going to be a long, hard journey. That's why the comforty blanket may be too tough to throw off.

    There is clearly going to be an ongoing confrontation between English naitonalism and Scottish nationalism inside the Westminster and Edinburgh Parliaments, on the airwaves and possibly on the streets. Too much Johnsonian goading of the Scots could end up backfiring. He will need to be careful.

    And there are indications of tectonic plates beginning to move in Northern Ireland. Unionism has a very tough task there. I wonder how much longer the tide can be held back. Again, much will depend on how Johnson plays things.

    I have found myself sleeping a lot better this last week. The unceertainty is over. That is a good thing, I can tell you! We are starting a new chapter in this country's history. I suspect it will be a pretty difficult one, but you never know.

    Nice post. I too am sleeping better since the election.
    +1. I'm always pretty chilled about life, but I definitely feel a die has been cast, so we may as well accept it and study the outcome with interest.

    I'm not yet sure that Lewis is especially left-wing - there's the stuff on listening to members, which is too vague to be meanginful, but mainly his record suggests being very pro-EU and very pro-PR, which gives an interesting basis for discussion with the LibDems.
    Yes, I am pretty chilled about it all. I did my best to stop the shitshow so have a clean conscience.

    There are also advantages. The Tories are planning to cut my taxes, and keep the foreigners from competing for my job, thereby improving my bargaining position re my employers. I am rather fond of the seafood that we used to export, so scallops etc should get cheaper here, and more of them left in the sea, thereby improving the natural environment. The continued de-industrialisation of Britain should also be good for the climate, so it isn't all bad...
  • Options

    That 50% approval thing for Trump is scary. Really looks like the Democrats are screwing this up :(

    Trump looks nailed on atm, would you agree?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,743

    That 50% approval thing for Trump is scary. Really looks like the Democrats are screwing this up :(

    Trump looks nailed on atm, would you agree?
    Bit early to say really.
  • Options

    That 50% approval thing for Trump is scary. Really looks like the Democrats are screwing this up :(

    Trump looks nailed on atm, would you agree?
    No but he looks like a serious risk.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,639

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1208149233246916608?s=20

    I believe some on here have won some money.

    I didn't get on, Gavin and Stacey odds on for top TV Christmas show.
    I wonder what Jezza will be watching?
  • Options

    That 50% approval thing for Trump is scary. Really looks like the Democrats are screwing this up :(

    Trump looks nailed on atm, would you agree?
    My view has been all along that only Biden can beat Trump, but his campaign has revealed, sadly, issues with age and focus.

    So, I think, given the field, Dems may as well roll the dice and give Buttigieg a chance against Trump. Have they anything left to lose? Because Warren or Sanders have no chance.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Aaron Bell featuring heavily on #lastleg now, looking quite youthful.

    He's just a boy
  • Options

    Foxy said:

    Aaron Bell featuring heavily on #lastleg now, looking quite youthful.

    He's just a boy
    Filmed before the weight of high office fell on his shoulders.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,743

    That 50% approval thing for Trump is scary. Really looks like the Democrats are screwing this up :(

    Trump looks nailed on atm, would you agree?
    My view has been all along that only Biden can beat Trump, but his campaign has revealed, sadly, issues with age and focus.

    So, I think, given the field, Dems may as well roll the dice and give Buttigieg a chance against Trump. Have they anything left to lose? Because Warren or Sanders have no chance.
    Klobuchar...
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1208149233246916608?s=20

    I believe some on here have won some money.

    I didn't get on, Gavin and Stacey odds on for top TV Christmas show.
    I wonder what Jezza will be watching?
    Russia Today?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,457
    Foxy said:

    That 50% approval thing for Trump is scary. Really looks like the Democrats are screwing this up :(

    Trump looks nailed on atm, would you agree?
    My view has been all along that only Biden can beat Trump, but his campaign has revealed, sadly, issues with age and focus.

    So, I think, given the field, Dems may as well roll the dice and give Buttigieg a chance against Trump. Have they anything left to lose? Because Warren or Sanders have no chance.
    Klobuchar...
    Bless you.
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1208149233246916608?s=20

    I believe some on here have won some money.

    I didn't get on, Gavin and Stacey odds on for top TV Christmas show.
    I wonder what Jezza will be watching?
    The Queens speech of course..
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,223

    You'll know you've completely stopped caring when you forget to put the inverted commas around Boris... :wink:

    Ah well I have that planned out. I'll move from ""Boris"" to "Boris" when people other than his friends & family move from "Boris" to "Mr Johnson" or "Johnson" or "Boris Johnson". So it could be a while.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,743

    That 50% approval thing for Trump is scary. Really looks like the Democrats are screwing this up :(

    The American era is coming to an end rapidly. Trump's re-election would be the final nail in the coffin. What ought to worry everyone most though is not Trump, but those who will follow him. Someone with Trump's views — but without the imbecilic behaviour, his dishonesty, and his many overt prejudices — could take America to a very dark place in a surprisingly short time, because it is now abundantly clear that the checks and balances do not work.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,743

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1208149233246916608?s=20

    I believe some on here have won some money.

    I didn't get on, Gavin and Stacey odds on for top TV Christmas show.
    I wonder what Jezza will be watching?
    I don't see him as a big TV watcher, probably just do his usual foodbank and homeless shelter visits etc
  • Options

    That 50% approval thing for Trump is scary. Really looks like the Democrats are screwing this up :(

    Trump looks nailed on atm, would you agree?
    My view has been all along that only Biden can beat Trump, but his campaign has revealed, sadly, issues with age and focus.

    So, I think, given the field, Dems may as well roll the dice and give Buttigieg a chance against Trump. Have they anything left to lose? Because Warren or Sanders have no chance.
    Pete wouldn't stand a chance against trump and your spot on about Warren, it'll be long time before they get a female president.

    Perhaps in a decade or so.
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    Shawkbox in shawking mode:

    https://skwawkbox.org/2019/12/20/143340/
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,223

    Trump looks nailed on atm, would you agree?

    No. But he has come in from 2.5 to 2 to win WH2020 in the last 2 weeks or so. That is a serious market move.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,032

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1208149233246916608?s=20

    I believe some on here have won some money.

    I didn't get on, Gavin and Stacey odds on for top TV Christmas show.
    I wonder what Jezza will be watching?
    The Queens speech of course..
    "Who's this old lady? She's lovely. And she talks sense. Why haven't we watced this before?"
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,223
    edited December 2019

    My view has been all along that only Biden can beat Trump, but his campaign has revealed, sadly, issues with age and focus.

    So, I think, given the field, Dems may as well roll the dice and give Buttigieg a chance against Trump. Have they anything left to lose? Because Warren or Sanders have no chance.

    I think HRC would beat him in a rematch.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,085
    kinabalu said:

    Yes - not his arguments, Gove was the more convincing.

    I despise Farage and everything he stands for. I never took Leave seriously as long as it was fronted by the likes of Farage. However having liberal Conservative politicians like Gove and Johnson front Brexit reassured me. Demonstrated that there were a class of liberal Conservative politicians who could lead the country without turning it into a xenophobic cesspit like Farage would.

    Johnson essentially helped "detox" Leave for me.

    OK. But please note that he has secured power and Brexit by winning over a bunch of WWC people in Labour heartlands who are most definitively NOT liberal conservatives. And please reflect on what that might mean. For him, for you, for them, for the UK.

    NB: Don't take this the wrong way. Things might work out how you hope/think they will. I am just asking you to reflect. Only and literally that. You don't need to answer because it could only be either (i) yes you will reflect, which you don't need to say, indeed it would sound a bit silly, or (ii) no, you refuse to do any reflecting, which would sound bombastic and reprehensible.
    LOL. Still being a passive aggressive twat I see.
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