Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Mandate

SystemSystem Posts: 11,794
edited December 2019 in General
imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Mandate

The Conservatives are triumphant. Labour have been smashed, the Lib Dems have actually regressed. The Tories may not have managed a landslide in the technical sense of getting a majority of 100, but they weren’t far away and their lead of 160 over the second-placed party is very handy indeed. They will be as dominant in Parliament as the Conservatives were in the 1987 Parliament or the Labour party was after the 2005 election.

Read the full story here

«13456

Comments

  • Options
    First, like the Tory candidate in North West Durham.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,336
    edited December 2019
    First once we use Vanilla second preferences.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,201
    Third First.
  • Options
    So agree with this piece.
  • Options
    Not first, but winning the argument.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    "The Prime Minister complained that EU citizens felt at home in Britain. He will be making sure that they don’t. So what if that is very damaging to the economy? "

    That is just utter nonsense. Boris said that EU immigrants were able to move to the UK as if it were part of their own country via FOM, which is undeniably true. Did he really say anything that can be taken to mean what I have quoted from the header?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Is Jess Phillips about to confirm as a runner? Money lined up to back her and the lays are small
  • Options
    I was first.....I won the argument....
  • Options
    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,670
    edited December 2019
    'As with the Conservatives in England and Wales, the SNP will probably incorrectly conclude that their victory was won by their own popularity.'

    Au contraire, this supporter believes that the biggest asset for the SNP has always been the ball aching mediocrity (and in some cases ghastliness) of their opposition. I see not the slightest indication that this is going to change.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,369

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!
  • Options
    What's the name of the downing Street cat?
  • Options
    Chris said:

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!
    I don't see your point.
  • Options
    Surprised that only 358 Con MPs voted for the bill when there are 365 Con MPs and they all solemnly promised to do so. Ministers out of the country?
  • Options
    Prince Philip, 98, is taken to London's King Edward VII Hospital on advice of Royal doctors
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Yes, BJ was talking about them being able to treat it as if it were part of their own country in terms of being able to move from one to the other as easily as moving from London to Lincoln. I really think it is beneath Alastair to repeatedly ignore that context to give a false impression. Why bother when it's so easy to rebuff?
  • Options

    So agree with this piece.

    Of course you do. Its bias and factual inaccuracies are right out of your playbook.
  • Options
    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    I am getting poll withdrawal symptoms. :'(
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,637
    edited December 2019

    I am getting poll withdrawal symptoms. :'(



  • Options

    So agree with this piece.

    Of course you do. Its bias and factual inaccuracies are right out of your playbook.
    Says the guy who couldn’t spot UKIP was headed down a far right anti Islam cesspool.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,141

    Surprised that only 358 Con MPs voted for the bill when there are 365 Con MPs and they all solemnly promised to do so. Ministers out of the country?

    365 less 2 tellers less Gale (Acting Deputy Chair) less Streeter (2nd deputy) = 361. That's the max you can get on the vote.


    Less Laing I think (Abstention due to wishing to go for Deputy role) & 2 more abstentions for others who want to run for deputy speaker ?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,201

    I am getting poll withdrawal symptoms. :'(


    4.95 years to go ;)
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    isam said:

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Yes, BJ was talking about them being able to treat it as if it were part of their own country in terms of being able to move from one to the other as easily as moving from London to Lincoln. I really think it is beneath Alastair to repeatedly ignore that context to give a false impression. Why bother when it's so easy to rebuff?
    I think I meant rebutt!
  • Options

    Surprised that only 358 Con MPs voted for the bill when there are 365 Con MPs and they all solemnly promised to do so. Ministers out of the country?

    358 + 2 deputy speakers + 2 tellers = 362

    Means there were 3 absent. Possibly paired?
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,369

    Chris said:

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!
    I don't see your point.
    Just that Boris is entirely right about these bloody foreigners coming here and treating it as if it's their own country. (Boris the descendant of Turkish/German immigrants excepted, naturally!)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,141

    Surprised that only 358 Con MPs voted for the bill when there are 365 Con MPs and they all solemnly promised to do so. Ministers out of the country?

    358 + 2 deputy speakers + 2 tellers = 362

    Means there were 3 absent. Possibly paired?
    Will be able to work out quickly what the abstentions were about when we see who they are.
  • Options

    Prince Philip, 98, is taken to London's King Edward VII Hospital on advice of Royal doctors

    He'll get to 100, the royals are pumped full of morphine.
  • Options
    So labour have just voted against the WA, and the timetable. All we need is labour to keep banging on about food banks and the nhs, rinse and repeat.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Surprised that only 358 Con MPs voted for the bill when there are 365 Con MPs and they all solemnly promised to do so. Ministers out of the country?

    358 + 2 deputy speakers + 2 tellers = 362

    Means there were 3 absent. Possibly paired?
    Will be able to work out quickly what the abstentions were about when we see who they are.
    If its those seeking to run for Deputy Speaker then that probably accounts for everyone.
  • Options
    TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,799
    RobD said:

    I am getting poll withdrawal symptoms. :'(


    4.95 years to go ;)
    If the FTPA wasn't going to be repealed, less than four and a half.
    Indeed, I suspect the government will go for May 2024 anyway (assuming they don't extend the life of Parliaments to more than 5 years). Going the whole hog to 12th December 2024, and THEN having a five week campaign over Christmas seems brave.
  • Options
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!
    I don't see your point.
    Just that Boris is entirely right about these bloody foreigners coming here and treating it as if it's their own country. (Boris the descendant of Turkish/German immigrants excepted, naturally!)
    Boris never said that.
  • Options

    I am getting poll withdrawal symptoms. :'(

    Not long until Labour leadership polling starts...
  • Options
    Given the size of the majority, some Labour MPs must have gone against Jezza and abstained.
  • Options

    So agree with this piece.

    Of course you do. Its bias and factual inaccuracies are right out of your playbook.
    Says the guy who couldn’t spot UKIP was headed down a far right anti Islam cesspool.
    More lies again. I left UKIP long before Farage did and said on here that was where they were heading. Indeed I left it the day the referendum was announced by Cameron. You really do have a big problem with the truth don't you. Mind you that is one of your standard rebuttal techniques. If in a corner just lie.

  • Options

    Pulpstar said:

    Surprised that only 358 Con MPs voted for the bill when there are 365 Con MPs and they all solemnly promised to do so. Ministers out of the country?

    358 + 2 deputy speakers + 2 tellers = 362

    Means there were 3 absent. Possibly paired?
    Will be able to work out quickly what the abstentions were about when we see who they are.
    If its those seeking to run for Deputy Speaker then that probably accounts for everyone.
    That would probably be it.
  • Options
    PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    Mr Meeks has a positively miserable view of the world and is peddling pessimism. Sometimes he seems more than to expect underperformance, that he wishes it so. Even if just for a monumental "I told you so". It's crass and sad.
  • Options

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!
    I don't see your point.
    Just that Boris is entirely right about these bloody foreigners coming here and treating it as if it's their own country. (Boris the descendant of Turkish/German immigrants excepted, naturally!)
    Boris never said that.
    Chris is another one who doesn't care about facts or the truth. He just makes stuff up to suit his argument.
  • Options
    Sky reporting that after the vote Keir Starmer crossed the floor and warmly shook Stephen Barclay's hand

    Full marks to Keir Starmer
  • Options
    Pauly said:

    Mr Meeks has a positively miserable view of the world and is peddling pessimism. Sometimes he seems more than to expect underperformance, that he wishes it so. Even if just for a monumental "I told you so". It's crass and sad.

    Everybody needs an Eeyore.

    Merry Christmas Mr Meeks, our dear Eeyore.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,141
    6 Labour rebels in amongst the 358. Including Toby Perkins & Easington MP !
    Grahame Morris must have been told he was on final warning over Brexit in Easington on the doorstep lol.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,369

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!
    I don't see your point.
    Just that Boris is entirely right about these bloody foreigners coming here and treating it as if it's their own country. (Boris the descendant of Turkish/German immigrants excepted, naturally!)
    Boris never said that.
    What are you objecting to? The distinction between "their own country" and "part of their own country"?

    What exactly was it that he was objecting to, if it wasn't just a piece of generic red meat thrown in the direction of xenophobes who might vote Tory?
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,369

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!
    I don't see your point.
    Just that Boris is entirely right about these bloody foreigners coming here and treating it as if it's their own country. (Boris the descendant of Turkish/German immigrants excepted, naturally!)
    Boris never said that.
    Chris is another one who doesn't care about facts or the truth. He just makes stuff up to suit his argument.
    What are you objecting to? The distinction between "their own country" and "part of their own country"?

    What exactly was it that he was objecting to, if it wasn't just a piece of generic red meat thrown in the direction of xenophobes who might vote Tory?
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Pauly said:

    Mr Meeks has a positively miserable view of the world and is peddling pessimism. Sometimes he seems more than to expect underperformance, that he wishes it so. Even if just for a monumental "I told you so". It's crass and sad.

    It is the big sulk of a very sore loser. Ted Heath redux!
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!
    I don't see your point.
    Just that Boris is entirely right about these bloody foreigners coming here and treating it as if it's their own country. (Boris the descendant of Turkish/German immigrants excepted, naturally!)
    Boris never said that.
    What are you objecting to? The distinction between "their own country" and "part of their own country"?

    What exactly was it that he was objecting to, if it wasn't just a piece of generic red meat thrown in the direction of xenophobes who might vote Tory?
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!
    I don't see your point.
    Just that Boris is entirely right about these bloody foreigners coming here and treating it as if it's their own country. (Boris the descendant of Turkish/German immigrants excepted, naturally!)
    Boris never said that.
    Chris is another one who doesn't care about facts or the truth. He just makes stuff up to suit his argument.
    What are you objecting to? The distinction between "their own country" and "part of their own country"?

    What exactly was it that he was objecting to, if it wasn't just a piece of generic red meat thrown in the direction of xenophobes who might vote Tory?
    He was outlining why Leave won the referendum, and as it turns out, why he won a massive majority last week
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,791
    I agree with much of the header. As a nation we are about to become a little poorer, a little less influential, a little less civilized. Nothing cataclysmic but undeniably our direction of travel is now backwards. I disagree, however, about the reason for the big Con win at the polls. Corbyn was a factor, yes, but only in the majority being 80 instead of 25 to 50. The main reason for Johnson's triumph was Johnson. He framed the GE perfectly and he messaged it perfectly. Get Brexit Done was a killer. This election WAS about Brexit. The vast majority of seats were Leave both in 2016 and now. If you consolidate the Leave vote behind you, as he skillfully did, you win under FPTP. The outcome was never in doubt.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,201

    I am getting poll withdrawal symptoms. :'(

    Not long until Labour leadership polling starts...
    Hypothetical polls. My favourite.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,369
    isam said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!
    I don't see your point.
    Just that Boris is entirely right about these bloody foreigners coming here and treating it as if it's their own country. (Boris the descendant of Turkish/German immigrants excepted, naturally!)
    Boris never said that.
    What are you objecting to? The distinction between "their own country" and "part of their own country"?

    What exactly was it that he was objecting to, if it wasn't just a piece of generic red meat thrown in the direction of xenophobes who might vote Tory?
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!
    I don't see your point.
    Just that Boris is entirely right about these bloody foreigners coming here and treating it as if it's their own country. (Boris the descendant of Turkish/German immigrants excepted, naturally!)
    Boris never said that.
    Chris is another one who doesn't care about facts or the truth. He just makes stuff up to suit his argument.
    What are you objecting to? The distinction between "their own country" and "part of their own country"?

    What exactly was it that he was objecting to, if it wasn't just a piece of generic red meat thrown in the direction of xenophobes who might vote Tory?
    He was outlining why Leave won the referendum, and as it turns out, why he won a massive majority last week
    So do you have any idea what the answer to my questions is?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,336
    edited December 2019

    So agree with this piece.

    Of course you do. Its bias and factual inaccuracies are right out of your playbook.
    Says the guy who couldn’t spot UKIP was headed down a far right anti Islam cesspool.
    More lies again. I left UKIP long before Farage did and said on here that was where they were heading. Indeed I left it the day the referendum was announced by Cameron. You really do have a big problem with the truth don't you. Mind you that is one of your standard rebuttal techniques. If in a corner just lie.

    Err Richard you're the liar or you've got early onset dementia.

    Here's some of the UKIP's Islamophobia from when you were a member (things I warned you and others on PB at the time)

    March 2015 - Farage British Muslim ‘fifth column’ fuels fear of immigration (as a Jewish organisation said at the time, this is one of the oldest anti semitic smears)

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/12/nigel-farage-british-muslim-fifth-column-fuels-immigration-fear-ukip

    2014 - Ukip MEP says British Muslims should sign charter rejecting violence. Gerard Batten, Ukip's immigration spokesman, proposed ban on new European mosques and says Qur'an needs updating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/04/ukip-mep-gerard-batten-muslims-sign-charter-rejecting-violence

    Jan 2015 - Nigel Farage tells Fox News there are no-go zones for non-Muslims in France

    French embassy in London says Ukip leader’s remarks are comparable to Steven Emerson’s Birmingham gaffe

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/13/nigel-farage-ukip-no-go-zones-non-muslim-france-charlie-hebdo

    Jan 2015 - Nigel Farage claims that Muslims are running UK 'ghettos' according to Sharia law

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nigel-farage-claims-there-are-no-go-zones-for-non-muslims-in-french-cities-on-fox-news-9976907.html

    I could list many many more examples but I've decided to spare your blushes.

    So tell me again all of these things happened whilst you were a member and you couldn't spot UKIP heading into a far right anti Islam cesspool?

    Like Jeremy Corbyn you are the most unluckiest anti racist in the world.
  • Options
    Very sour piece from Mr Meeks. Well below par.
  • Options

    What's the name of the downing Street cat?

    Chairman Meoww
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Chris said:

    isam said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!
    I don't see your point.
    Just that Boris is entirely right about these bloody foreigners coming here and treating it as if it's their own country. (Boris the descendant of Turkish/German immigrants excepted, naturally!)
    Boris never said that.
    What are you objecting to? The distinction between "their own country" and "part of their own country"?

    What exactly was it that he was objecting to, if it wasn't just a piece of generic red meat thrown in the direction of xenophobes who might vote Tory?
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!
    I don't see your point.
    Just that Boris is entirely right about these bloody foreigners coming here and treating it as if it's their own country. (Boris the descendant of Turkish/German immigrants excepted, naturally!)
    Boris never said that.
    Chris is another one who doesn't care about facts or the truth. He just makes stuff up to suit his argument.
    What are you objecting to? The distinction between "their own country" and "part of their own country"?

    What exactly was it that he was objecting to, if it wasn't just a piece of generic red meat thrown in the direction of xenophobes who might vote Tory?
    He was outlining why Leave won the referendum, and as it turns out, why he won a massive majority last week
    So do you have any idea what the answer to my questions is?
    Of course, Freedom of movement.
  • Options
    alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100

    Very sour piece from Mr Meeks. Well below par.

    I thought it very much in keeping
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    So agree with this piece.

    Of course you do. Its bias and factual inaccuracies are right out of your playbook.
    Says the guy who couldn’t spot UKIP was headed down a far right anti Islam cesspool.
    More lies again. I left UKIP long before Farage did and said on here that was where they were heading. Indeed I left it the day the referendum was announced by Cameron. You really do have a big problem with the truth don't you. Mind you that is one of your standard rebuttal techniques. If in a corner just lie.

    Err Richard you're the liar or you've got early onset dementia.

    Here's some of the UKIP's Islamophobia from when you were a member (things I warned you and others on PB at the time)

    March 2015 - Farage British Muslim ‘fifth column’ fuels fear of immigration (as a Jewish organisation said at the time, this is one of the oldest anti semitic smears)

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/12/nigel-farage-british-muslim-fifth-column-fuels-immigration-fear-ukip

    2014 - Ukip MEP says British Muslims should sign charter rejecting violence. Gerard Batten, Ukip's immigration spokesman, proposed ban on new European mosques and says Qur'an needs updating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/04/ukip-mep-gerard-batten-muslims-sign-charter-rejecting-violence

    Jan 2015 - Nigel Farage tells Fox News there are no-go zones for non-Muslims in France

    French embassy in London says Ukip leader’s remarks are comparable to Steven Emerson’s Birmingham gaffe

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/13/nigel-farage-ukip-no-go-zones-non-muslim-france-charlie-hebdo

    Jan 2015 - Nigel Farage claims that Muslims are running UK 'ghettos' according to Sharia law

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nigel-farage-claims-there-are-no-go-zones-for-non-muslims-in-french-cities-on-fox-news-9976907.html

    I could list many many more examples but I've decided to spare your blushes.

    So tell me again all of these things happened whilst you were a member and you couldn't spot UKIP heading into a far right anti Islam cesspool?

    Like Jeremy Corbyn you are the most unluckiest anti racist in the world.
    At the time you were saying something very similar to "Richard, you are the kind of UKIP candidate that I could vote for"
  • Options

    What's the name of the downing Street cat?

    Larry.

    I've stroked Larry once, but generally he's an arsehole, as most cats are.

    He's very lazy as well, he was hired to catch mice in Downing Street, he saw and decided to lay on his back.
  • Options
    isam said:

    So agree with this piece.

    Of course you do. Its bias and factual inaccuracies are right out of your playbook.
    Says the guy who couldn’t spot UKIP was headed down a far right anti Islam cesspool.
    More lies again. I left UKIP long before Farage did and said on here that was where they were heading. Indeed I left it the day the referendum was announced by Cameron. You really do have a big problem with the truth don't you. Mind you that is one of your standard rebuttal techniques. If in a corner just lie.

    Err Richard you're the liar or you've got early onset dementia.

    Here's some of the UKIP's Islamophobia from when you were a member (things I warned you and others on PB at the time)

    March 2015 - Farage British Muslim ‘fifth column’ fuels fear of immigration (as a Jewish organisation said at the time, this is one of the oldest anti semitic smears)

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/12/nigel-farage-british-muslim-fifth-column-fuels-immigration-fear-ukip

    2014 - Ukip MEP says British Muslims should sign charter rejecting violence. Gerard Batten, Ukip's immigration spokesman, proposed ban on new European mosques and says Qur'an needs updating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/04/ukip-mep-gerard-batten-muslims-sign-charter-rejecting-violence

    Jan 2015 - Nigel Farage tells Fox News there are no-go zones for non-Muslims in France

    French embassy in London says Ukip leader’s remarks are comparable to Steven Emerson’s Birmingham gaffe

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/13/nigel-farage-ukip-no-go-zones-non-muslim-france-charlie-hebdo

    Jan 2015 - Nigel Farage claims that Muslims are running UK 'ghettos' according to Sharia law

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nigel-farage-claims-there-are-no-go-zones-for-non-muslims-in-french-cities-on-fox-news-9976907.html

    I could list many many more examples but I've decided to spare your blushes.

    So tell me again all of these things happened whilst you were a member and you couldn't spot UKIP heading into a far right anti Islam cesspool?

    Like Jeremy Corbyn you are the most unluckiest anti racist in the world.
    At the time you were saying something very similar to "Richard, you are the kind of UKIP candidate that I could vote for"
    Because I believe Richard when he said he was opposed to racism and bigotry, but he stayed quiet and takes no responsibility now.
  • Options

    So labour have just voted against the WA, and the timetable. All we need is labour to keep banging on about food banks and the nhs, rinse and repeat.

    162 labour mps voted against, 6 for and the rest of the 203 abstained
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,267
    The thing I am most optimistic about now is that Johnson will do something for the so called red wall seats that voted for him. Communities that have been left behind and haven't shared in the prosperity of leafy southern commuter towns and London seats.

    Those communities have finally shown they can't be taken for granted and politicians of all stripes will have to take their concerns much more seriously in the future. This can only be a good thing.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,336
    edited December 2019
    kyf_100 said:

    The thing I am most optimistic about now is that Johnson will do something for the so called red wall seats that voted for him. Communities that have been left behind and haven't shared in the prosperity of leafy southern commuter towns and London seats.

    Those communities have finally shown they can't be taken for granted and politicians of all stripes will have to take their concerns much more seriously in the future. This can only be a good thing.

    Well if he wants to prove it he can improve the transport infrastructure in the North which gets a fraction of the spending of London.

    The whole system in the North is about to collapse, especially the trains which will impact bus and tram services, and that's not going to be a good look when he spaffs billions on HS2.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,369
    edited December 2019
    isam said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:


    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!

    I don't see your point.
    Just that Boris is entirely right about these bloody foreigners coming here and treating it as if it's their own country. (Boris the descendant of Turkish/German immigrants excepted, naturally!)
    Boris never said that.
    What are you objecting to? The distinction between "their own country" and "part of their own country"?

    What exactly was it that he was objecting to, if it wasn't just a piece of generic red meat thrown in the direction of xenophobes who might vote Tory?
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!
    I don't see your point.
    Just that Boris is entirely right about these bloody foreigners coming here and treating it as if it's their own country. (Boris the descendant of Turkish/German immigrants excepted, naturally!)
    Boris never said that.
    Chris is another one who doesn't care about facts or the truth. He just makes stuff up to suit his argument.
    What are you objecting to? The distinction between "their own country" and "part of their own country"?

    What exactly was it that he was objecting to, if it wasn't just a piece of generic red meat thrown in the direction of xenophobes who might vote Tory?
    He was outlining why Leave won the referendum, and as it turns out, why he won a massive majority last week
    So do you have any idea what the answer to my questions is?
    Of course, Freedom of movement.
    And you're going to put your hand on your heart and say that complaining about foreigners treating Britain "as if it’s part of their own country" wasn't put out as a bit of red meat for xenophobes?

    From the man who bent over backwards to be migrant-friendly when he thought it was to his political advantage as Mayor of London?

    How naive can you get?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,791
    Identity now trumps economics.

    This, from the header, is the single most important thing to get one's head around. It is also what I am most worried about.

    As the Cons strive to keep the identity-driven WWC voters they have now captured - and upon which their GE win was constructed - where will that take them?
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    Identity now trumps economics.

    This, from the header, is the single most important thing to get one's head around. It is also what I am most worried about.

    As the Cons strive to keep the identity-driven WWC voters they have now captured - and upon which their GE win was constructed - where will that take them?

    Ultimately like Corbynism the money will eventually run out when ideology is placed ahead of economic reality, that's where we are headed.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,369
    kinabalu said:

    Identity now trumps economics.

    This, from the header, is the single most important thing to get one's head around. It is also what I am most worried about.

    As the Cons strive to keep the identity-driven WWC voters they have now captured - and upon which their GE win was constructed - where will that take them?

    It'll take Boris Johnson wherever he thinks he can best pick up votes, without the slightest nod to integrity, consistency or common decency.

    That's why the right-wing nutters are being very foolish if they think all their Christmases have come at once.
  • Options
    Anyhoo wish me luck, I'm about use the train to get from Manchester to Sheffield, on a Friday afternoon.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,201

    Anyhoo wish me luck, I'm about use the train to get from Manchester to Sheffield, on a Friday afternoon.

    Is first class especially rough on friday afternoons? :)
  • Options
    RobD said:

    Anyhoo wish me luck, I'm about use the train to get from Manchester to Sheffield, on a Friday afternoon.

    Is first class especially rough on friday afternoons? :)
    Very, the trains are so rammed, they let non first class ticket holders in to first class.

    Plebs in first class is disgraceful. They smell and have terrible fashion choices.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,386
    edited December 2019
    Very good piece. A cooler analysis is of the Boris phenomenon can only be salutary. Like Tone in 1997, Boris is being treated as a deity. Already talk abounds of Boris's 'Golden Age' and his status alongside Thatcher and Churchill as one of the three great Tory PMs in modern history. His devotees need to calm down. Boris and Dom were successful only in twisting some noble and necessary civic processes - parliament's attempt to ensure an optimal Brexit and the courts' upholding constitutional law - into generating an ochlocratic assault on an imagined 'Elite'. It was a cynical and destructive, albeit depressingly successful, project.
  • Options
    Pretty much every train journey this week and every Friday afternoon since like 999 AD has involved spending most of the journey with at least one man's groin shoved in my face, when I'm lucky it is more than one.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Chris said:

    isam said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:


    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!

    I don't see your point.
    Just that Boris is entirely right about these bloody foreigners coming here and treating it as if it's their own country. (Boris the descendant of Turkish/German immigrants excepted, naturally!)
    Boris never said that.
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!
    I don't see your point.
    Boris never said that.
    What are you objecting to? The distinction between "their own country" and "part of their own country"?

    What exactly was it that he was objecting to, if it wasn't just a piece of generic red meat thrown in the direction of xenophobes who might vote Tory?
    He was outlining why Leave won the referendum, and as it turns out, why he won a massive majority last week
    So do you have any idea what the answer to my questions is?
    Of course, Freedom of movement.
    And you're going to put your hand on your heart and say that complaining about foreigners treating Britain "as if it’s part of their own country" wasn't put out as a bit of red meat for xenophobes?

    From the man who bent over backwards to be migrant-friendly when he thought it was to his political advantage as Mayor of London?

    How naive can you get?
    If you see everything people you disagree with say and do as malevolent, then you might see it that way, same as people were convinced he said "people of colour", when he didn't. Seems a childish way to behave.

    But to me it seemed to say what is factually true; that people from the EU can treat the UK as if it were part of their own country for immigration purposes, as they can. I think that was the reason for UKIP doing well in 2014-15, the referendum being won by Leave in 2016, and Boris winning last week.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    kyf_100 said:

    The thing I am most optimistic about now is that Johnson will do something for the so called red wall seats that voted for him. Communities that have been left behind and haven't shared in the prosperity of leafy southern commuter towns and London seats.

    Those communities have finally shown they can't be taken for granted and politicians of all stripes will have to take their concerns much more seriously in the future. This can only be a good thing.

    It would be great if he did, here's hoping.
  • Options
    Mr. Eagles, as long as you sacrificed a goat to Hermes I'm sure you'll be fine.
  • Options
    Chris said:


    And you're going to put your hand on your heart and say that complaining about foreigners treating Britain "as if it’s part of their own country" wasn't put out as a bit of red meat for xenophobes?

    From the man who bent over backwards to be migrant-friendly when he thought it was to his political advantage as Mayor of London?

    How naive can you get?

    As a Jewish observer pointed out, Boris Johnson was effectively calling them rootless cosmopolitans.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,267

    kyf_100 said:

    The thing I am most optimistic about now is that Johnson will do something for the so called red wall seats that voted for him. Communities that have been left behind and haven't shared in the prosperity of leafy southern commuter towns and London seats.

    Those communities have finally shown they can't be taken for granted and politicians of all stripes will have to take their concerns much more seriously in the future. This can only be a good thing.

    Well if he wants to prove it he can improve the transport infrastructure in the North which gets a fraction of the spending of London.

    The whole system in the North is about to collapse, especially the trains which will impact bus and tram services, and that's not going to be a good look when he spaffs billions on HS2.
    I think this is a good shout.

    And also indicative of why Corbyn was wrong. His fare reductions would have seen rich commuters in London and the South East get massive discounts while doing little for anyone else.

    It remains to be seen whether or not Boris will govern for the whole country but the good news is that with the red wall seats in play, they will be impossible for politicians of all sides to ignore for the foreseeable future.
  • Options
    llefllef Posts: 298
    re "the economy is already flatlining"

    Figs out today show that the economy grew by 0.4% in Q3 - that's not marvellous, but its not flatlining. (It's also better than Q3 nos for France, Germany and Japan).

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-economy/uk-economys-growth-in-q3-revised-up-smallest-current-account-gap-since-2012-idUKKBN1YO0XP
  • Options
    Yeah this is where we are, it's all a little bit shit.
  • Options
    BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    kyf_100 said:

    The thing I am most optimistic about now is that Johnson will do something for the so called red wall seats that voted for him. Communities that have been left behind and haven't shared in the prosperity of leafy southern commuter towns and London seats.

    Those communities have finally shown they can't be taken for granted and politicians of all stripes will have to take their concerns much more seriously in the future. This can only be a good thing.

    Well if he wants to prove it he can improve the transport infrastructure in the North which gets a fraction of the spending of London.

    The whole system in the North is about to collapse, especially the trains which will impact bus and tram services, and that's not going to be a good look when he spaffs billions on HS2.
    I have zero problem with Boris mugging off the SE and London to improve investment and infrastructure in the Midlands and the North.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Pretty much every train journey this week and every Friday afternoon since like 999 AD has involved spending most of the journey with at least one man's groin shoved in my face, when I'm lucky it is more than one.

    Commuting is indescribably awful. I don't know how so many people do it day in, day out without going quite mad.
  • Options
    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    But six Labour MPs voted for the plan too:

    Sarah Champion - MP for Rotheram
    Rosie Cooper - MP for West Lancashire
    Jon Cruddas - MP for Dagenham and Rainham
    Emma Lewell-Buck - MP for South Shields
    Grahame Morris - MP for Easington
    Toby Perkins - MP for Chesterfield
    A further 32 Labour MPs abstained in the vote - despite Jeremy Corbyn telling his party to vote against it.

    They include three shadow cabinet members:

    John Trickett - MP for Hewmsworth
    Ian Lavery - MP for Wansbeck
    Andrew Gwynne - MP for Denton and Reddish

    Merry Christmas to all
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,369
    isam said:


    But to me it seemed to say what is factually true; that people from the EU can treat the UK as if it were part of their own country for immigration purposes, as they can.

    Of course there's often a grain of truth behind what demagogues say, otherwise it wouldn't be effective.

    But most people of normal intelligence - unless they're really trying to defend the claptrap - will also look at the language they use.

    If there's a mutual agreement between countries to allow freedom of movement, and a politician chooses to characterise that as foreigners treating Britain "as if it’s part of their own country," it really shouldn't be too hard to see what they're up to.

    Particularly when they've taken the diametrically opposite stance in the past when it's been to their political advantage.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Very good piece. A cooler analysis is of the Boris phenomenon can only be salutary. Like Tone in 1997, Boris is being treated as a deity. Already talk abounds of Boris's 'Golden Age' and his status alongside Thatcher and Churchill as one of the three great Tory PMs in modern history. His devotees need to calm down. Boris and Dom were successful only in twisting some noble and necessary civic processes - parliament's attempt to ensure an optimal Brexit and the courts' upholding constitutional law - into generating an ochlocratic assault on an imagined 'Elite'. It was a cynical and destructive, albeit depressingly successful, project.

    It was successful partly because it contained an element of truth. Some metropolitans disdain the provinces and the people who inhabit them. They're also very poor losers, not being accustomed to it.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,141
    Brom said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The thing I am most optimistic about now is that Johnson will do something for the so called red wall seats that voted for him. Communities that have been left behind and haven't shared in the prosperity of leafy southern commuter towns and London seats.

    Those communities have finally shown they can't be taken for granted and politicians of all stripes will have to take their concerns much more seriously in the future. This can only be a good thing.

    Well if he wants to prove it he can improve the transport infrastructure in the North which gets a fraction of the spending of London.

    The whole system in the North is about to collapse, especially the trains which will impact bus and tram services, and that's not going to be a good look when he spaffs billions on HS2.
    I have zero problem with Boris mugging off the SE and London to improve investment and infrastructure in the Midlands and the North.
    Barely any Tory MPs in London now aren't there ?

    Wimbledon and Kensington are going next time round with tactical confusion saving Chelsea and Cities.

    And the remainder of nominally Tory London MPs have areas of outer London that don't really consider their area London at all ! (Ruislip, Orpington, Carshalton, Uxbridge)...
  • Options
    Brom said:

    But six Labour MPs voted for the plan too:

    Sarah Champion - MP for Rotheram
    Rosie Cooper - MP for West Lancashire
    Jon Cruddas - MP for Dagenham and Rainham
    Emma Lewell-Buck - MP for South Shields
    Grahame Morris - MP for Easington
    Toby Perkins - MP for Chesterfield
    A further 32 Labour MPs abstained in the vote - despite Jeremy Corbyn telling his party to vote against it.

    They include three shadow cabinet members:

    John Trickett - MP for Hewmsworth
    Ian Lavery - MP for Wansbeck
    Andrew Gwynne - MP for Denton and Reddish

    Merry Christmas to all

    So which Conservatives did not vote for it? Would there be pairing on a vote like this?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Chris said:

    isam said:


    But to me it seemed to say what is factually true; that people from the EU can treat the UK as if it were part of their own country for immigration purposes, as they can.

    Of course there's often a grain of truth behind what demagogues say, otherwise it wouldn't be effective.

    But most people of normal intelligence - unless they're really trying to defend the claptrap - will also look at the language they use.

    If there's a mutual agreement between countries to allow freedom of movement, and a politician chooses to characterise that as foreigners treating Britain "as if it’s part of their own country," it really shouldn't be too hard to see what they're up to.

    Particularly when they've taken the diametrically opposite stance in the past when it's been to their political advantage.
    Oh! Was that a clever, subtle dig at my lack of intelligence?! Cute!!

    FOM means EU members can treat any other EU country as if it were part of their own. It was the reason we are leaving the EU and that Boris (or BJ if it keeps people happy) won a huge majority last week.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Brom said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The thing I am most optimistic about now is that Johnson will do something for the so called red wall seats that voted for him. Communities that have been left behind and haven't shared in the prosperity of leafy southern commuter towns and London seats.

    Those communities have finally shown they can't be taken for granted and politicians of all stripes will have to take their concerns much more seriously in the future. This can only be a good thing.

    Well if he wants to prove it he can improve the transport infrastructure in the North which gets a fraction of the spending of London.

    The whole system in the North is about to collapse, especially the trains which will impact bus and tram services, and that's not going to be a good look when he spaffs billions on HS2.
    I have zero problem with Boris mugging off the SE and London to improve investment and infrastructure in the Midlands and the North.
    Boris is, of course, on record saying it's better to spend all government money on London is it gets the best ROI.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    You have to have a job or have the means to support yourself to move in the EU under Freedom of Movement.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,369
    isam said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:


    But to me it seemed to say what is factually true; that people from the EU can treat the UK as if it were part of their own country for immigration purposes, as they can.

    Of course there's often a grain of truth behind what demagogues say, otherwise it wouldn't be effective.

    But most people of normal intelligence - unless they're really trying to defend the claptrap - will also look at the language they use.

    If there's a mutual agreement between countries to allow freedom of movement, and a politician chooses to characterise that as foreigners treating Britain "as if it’s part of their own country," it really shouldn't be too hard to see what they're up to.

    Particularly when they've taken the diametrically opposite stance in the past when it's been to their political advantage.
    Oh! Was that a clever, subtle dig at my lack of intelligence?! Cute!!

    FOM means EU members can treat any other EU country as if it were part of their own. It was the reason we are leaving the EU and that Boris (or BJ if it keeps people happy) won a huge majority last week.
    If there's a mutual agreement between countries to allow freedom of movement, and a politician chooses to characterise that as foreigners treating Britain "as if it’s part of their own country," it really shouldn't be too hard to see what they're up to.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2019
    Chris said:

    isam said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:


    But to me it seemed to say what is factually true; that people from the EU can treat the UK as if it were part of their own country for immigration purposes, as they can.

    Of course there's often a grain of truth behind what demagogues say, otherwise it wouldn't be effective.

    But most people of normal intelligence - unless they're really trying to defend the claptrap - will also look at the language they use.

    If there's a mutual agreement between countries to allow freedom of movement, and a politician chooses to characterise that as foreigners treating Britain "as if it’s part of their own country," it really shouldn't be too hard to see what they're up to.

    Particularly when they've taken the diametrically opposite stance in the past when it's been to their political advantage.
    Oh! Was that a clever, subtle dig at my lack of intelligence?! Cute!!

    FOM means EU members can treat any other EU country as if it were part of their own. It was the reason we are leaving the EU and that Boris (or BJ if it keeps people happy) won a huge majority last week.
    If there's a mutual agreement between countries to allow freedom of movement, and a politician chooses to characterise that as foreigners treating Britain "as if it’s part of their own country," it really shouldn't be too hard to see what they're up to.
    Yes, I heard you the first time. The problem is that a majority of voters in a referendum chose for us to break that mutual agreement.
  • Options
    Just done the West Midlands Metro extension from New Street to Birmingham Library. Trams now repainted in Tory Blue :lol:
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,591
    edited December 2019
    It's an interesting thread header apart from the last couple of paragraphs, which don't really survive scrutiny. For instance, who of any consequence has welcomed economic damage? The country is actually living beyond its means somewhat less now than when we voted to leave the EU (Q2/Q3 2016 current account deficits £25/30bn, Q3 2019 £16bn). Are standards in public life really lower than when, e.g., MPs could claim whatever expenses they wanted and Tony Blair lied us into a war? And are we really on a path to isolation as a member of the UN, NATO and negotiating dozens of trade agreements around the world?

    We have big problems as a country, including productivity that is lower than many advanced countries, affordable housing in the south, underperforming small towns in the north, a fraying Union and a massive and glaring generation gap. But we also have considerable strengths, and finally a Government with the power to address them, which is why I'm cautiously optimistic about the next decade. Happy Christmas.
  • Options
    GasmanGasman Posts: 132
    Of all the disingenous nonsense and outright lies from the Remain side, the crap about "loss of influence" is probably the worst. As a member of the EU we have 1/28 of a voice to the rest of the world, approximately the same as Luxembourg.

    If you actually cared about us being able to influence the rest of the world you would want us to be able to do so, not to add a little more weight to whatever France and Germany want to say.
  • Options
    Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Alistair also badly misquotes the PM regarding EU immigrants.

    He did not complain that "EU citizens felt at home in Britain".

    What he said was:

    “EU migrants have been able to treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country”

    which is a fundamentally different thing.

    Ah. You mean like the Germans tried to do in 1940. And failed. Ha ha ha!
    I don't see your point.
    Just that Boris is entirely right about these bloody foreigners coming here and treating it as if it's their own country. (Boris the descendant of Turkish/German immigrants excepted, naturally!)
    Boris never said that.
    Chris is another one who doesn't care about facts or the truth. He just makes stuff up to suit his argument.
    What are you objecting to? The distinction between "their own country" and "part of their own country"?

    What exactly was it that he was objecting to, if it wasn't just a piece of generic red meat thrown in the direction of xenophobes who might vote Tory?
    I think the complaint was that EU citizens had free movement to travel here as if it was part of their own country. Which is a different thing than feeling at home here.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,974

    Pretty much every train journey this week and every Friday afternoon since like 999 AD has involved spending most of the journey with at least one man's groin shoved in my face, when I'm lucky it is more than one.

    The indicator today is that despite the Southern floods, and despite a slew of pre-planned cancellations not counting, Transpennine are today again performing worst of all TOCs, with nearly triple the cancellations rate of either SouthEastern or South Western.

    www.trains.im

    Got home on time yesterday before Victoria melted down, but on a small train following on from 2 cancellations, squashed in by a Chinese girl and her boyfriend, a short young lady with a brown fake fur coat whose tresses semi-merged with it and emphasised some rather fetching auburn highlights and who then somehow managed to do a bit of make up en route, a large hold bag from the airport with a Germanic blonde girl tending, which limited my rotation room, although she allowed me to hold on to her squashy neck pillow, which was sat on the bag, no other anchor point being available, the exceptionally bushy wagging tail of a guide dog, and a loud socialist pointy pencil type lady bemoaning the situation.

    Disembarking required the rearrangement of stacking of 3 other bits of luggage in the aisle.

    As TSE says, all this had become normal over the past 6 weeks, yet it has ramped up again.

    It is massively worse than last May, and full and final meltdown feels imminent, - post-Christmas needs one hell of a reset else this will be big P Political.
  • Options

    So agree with this piece.

    Of course you do. Its bias and factual inaccuracies are right out of your playbook.
    Says the guy who couldn’t spot UKIP was headed down a far right anti Islam cesspool.
    More lies again. I left UKIP long before Farage did and said on here that was where they were heading. Indeed I left it the day the referendum was announced by Cameron. You really do have a big problem with the truth don't you. Mind you that is one of your standard rebuttal techniques. If in a corner just lie.

    Err Richard you're the liar or you've got early onset dementia.

    Here's some of the UKIP's Islamophobia from when you were a member (things I warned you and others on PB at the time)

    March 2015 - Farage British Muslim ‘fifth column’ fuels fear of immigration (as a Jewish organisation said at the time, this is one of the oldest anti semitic smears)

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/12/nigel-farage-british-muslim-fifth-column-fuels-immigration-fear-ukip

    2014 - Ukip MEP says British Muslims should sign charter rejecting violence. Gerard Batten, Ukip's immigration spokesman, proposed ban on new European mosques and says Qur'an needs updating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/04/ukip-mep-gerard-batten-muslims-sign-charter-rejecting-violence

    Jan 2015 - Nigel Farage tells Fox News there are no-go zones for non-Muslims in France

    French embassy in London says Ukip leader’s remarks are comparable to Steven Emerson’s Birmingham gaffe

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/13/nigel-farage-ukip-no-go-zones-non-muslim-france-charlie-hebdo

    Jan 2015 - Nigel Farage claims that Muslims are running UK 'ghettos' according to Sharia law

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nigel-farage-claims-there-are-no-go-zones-for-non-muslims-in-french-cities-on-fox-news-9976907.html

    I could list many many more examples but I've decided to spare your blushes.

    So tell me again all of these things happened whilst you were a member and you couldn't spot UKIP heading into a far right anti Islam cesspool?

    Like Jeremy Corbyn you are the most unluckiest anti racist in the world.
    And guess what, I left just after those comments were made. So again you are a lying fuckwit. Stop wriggling Eagles and just accept you are relying on lies and smears because you don't have a leg to stand on.
  • Options
    Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    The big problem the Tories have is that they don't actually care about fixing the problems in Northern towns so much as they care about announcing big policies about it.

    It is very easy to throw a load of money at putting in a rail line, but that wouldn't help so much as successful adult reskilling, which Britain is terrible at. Of course that is a difficult issue to fix and takes a lot of work, but Boris doesn't have the attention span for it.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,057
    edited December 2019
    alterego said:

    Very sour piece from Mr Meeks. Well below par.

    I thought it very much in keeping
    Maybe, boringly, Boris - like Blair - is neither as good as his supporters crow immediately after a big win, nor as bad as his detractors lament at all times but especially now. I suppose it is of the essence of PBing that waiting and seeing is not an option.

    My guess, and it is a guess, is that he is (apart from being a self interested ego, take that as read) a one nation Tory who has climbed the top of the greasy pole in interesting times. Mr Meeks underestimates the depth of Boris's challenges. Being Boris his number one concern will be winning in 2023/4, and to do so in normal times you can only win from the Christian Democrat/Social Democrat centre.

    If he wants - and he must - to keep and extend the northern non-Marxist ex Labour vote then he has in front of him a constituency of people (many are hard boiled men) who are hard to please and not so easily fooled. In Cumbria where I live four out its six constituencies are naturally Labour or marginal (Copeland, Workington, Carlisle, Barrow). At this moment 5 are Tory and one is wafer thin Lib Dem marginal. If this fact replicated across the north does not keep Boris honest, nothing will.

  • Options
    Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    Gasman said:

    Of all the disingenous nonsense and outright lies from the Remain side, the crap about "loss of influence" is probably the worst. As a member of the EU we have 1/28 of a voice to the rest of the world, approximately the same as Luxembourg.

    If you actually cared about us being able to influence the rest of the world you would want us to be able to do so, not to add a little more weight to whatever France and Germany want to say.

    The problem with our membership was that we were not in the Euro, which left us second tier in decision making. The Rejoin movement should start arguing for Euro membership rather than the half in, half out membership that breeds resentments on both sides. We should go in fully.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,791
    edited December 2019
    kyf_100 said:

    The thing I am most optimistic about now is that Johnson will do something for the so called red wall seats that voted for him. Communities that have been left behind and haven't shared in the prosperity of leafy southern commuter towns and London seats.

    Those communities have finally shown they can't be taken for granted and politicians of all stripes will have to take their concerns much more seriously in the future. This can only be a good thing.

    It CAN be a good thing but I would not go so far as it can ONLY be a good thing.

    If he implements Labour policies of steering wealth and opportunity away from the affluent and towards them - great.

    If, however, he panders to identity driven concerns - "giving them their country back" type stuff - then, no, that is not a good thing. That is not good at all.

    Wonder what he WILL do?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 19,415
    edited December 2019

    Pretty much every train journey this week and every Friday afternoon since like 999 AD has involved spending most of the journey with at least one man's groin shoved in my face, when I'm lucky it is more than one.

    You need to be taller :smile: .

    Perhaps this is why Bercow is always so splenetic.
  • Options


    Because I believe Richard when he said he was opposed to racism and bigotry, but he stayed quiet and takes no responsibility now.

    More lies. You really are on a roll today. I didn't stay quiet and made it clear why I was leaving UKIP and what it was becoming. I really do wonder if you are capable of making an honest statement when you have been proved wrong about something.
This discussion has been closed.