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  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    TOPPING said:

    All's fair if it's legal and tests the robustness of the Constitution (cf prorogation of parliament). For me it was the fanatics of the ERG who frustrated Brexit for so long.

    And what have they ended up with before anyone crows at their victory? A path to a united Ireland. Well done them.

    They've ended up winning. They've got a deal much more to their liking, a Parliament much more to their liking and will get a final Brexit agreement much more to their liking.

    The ERG have won. The idea they "frustrated Brexit" is a fallacy that should have long since been put down now.

    As for the path to the united Ireland, that may be relevant if you were talking about the DUP not the ERG. Of those who opposed May's deal the ERG are big winners and the DUP, Tiggers, Labour, Lib Dems and Conservative Remainers are the big losers.
    Leave has won via Direct Democracy and Parliamentary Democracy, there is nothing really left to say.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    twitter.com/MarkerJParker/status/1206594291285581824

    It will be interesting to know how many of those the public could name. Not only do they now have bugger all MPs, they don't even have the likes of Uncle Vice or Norman Lamb.
    Uncle Vice is an awesome typo.
    Niece work if you can get it.
  • isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    All's fair if it's legal and tests the robustness of the Constitution (cf prorogation of parliament). For me it was the fanatics of the ERG who frustrated Brexit for so long.

    And what have they ended up with before anyone crows at their victory? A path to a united Ireland. Well done them.

    They've ended up winning. They've got a deal much more to their liking, a Parliament much more to their liking and will get a final Brexit agreement much more to their liking.

    The ERG have won. The idea they "frustrated Brexit" is a fallacy that should have long since been put down now.

    As for the path to the united Ireland, that may be relevant if you were talking about the DUP not the ERG. Of those who opposed May's deal the ERG are big winners and the DUP, Tiggers, Labour, Lib Dems and Conservative Remainers are the big losers.
    Leave has won via Direct Democracy and Parliamentary Democracy, there is nothing really left to say.
    I am sure leavers will have plenty more to say about this!
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    No, they gave her one.....

    “Thank you for supporting us railroaders in the fight against climate change! We were happy that you travelled with us on Saturday in the ICE 74 ... but it would have been even nicer, had you also reported how friendly and competently you were looked after by our team at your seat in the first class.”

    DB confirmed that Greta had travelled first class between the cities of Kassel and Hamburg.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/15/greta-thunberg-in-twitter-spat-with-german-rail-firm
    You forgot to quote the part of that article that said she got a seat only more than four hours into her journey.

    You were rushing to make a point, perhaps, and missed it?
    P
    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    Odd, you are normally booked on a specific service with a seat reservation on a DB long distance service. Unless she was doing it on a QdL or Land ticket in which case it's regional and local trains only without bookable seats.
    No - she didn't have a seat reservation. As I explained in the first post you quoted, according to her she was offered a seat more than four hours into her journey - for the final third of it.

    Quite possibly she shouldn't have complained, on the basis that four hours sitting on the floor never did us any harm when we were young. But let's at least get the facts straight.
  • Chris said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    It's not.

    Many people who voted Remain, and would again, were unimpressed with the desperate stunts pulled by the likes of Soubry, Allen, Chuka, Swinson etc

    Evidence?
    They all lost their seats?
    Get someone to explain to you how First Past The Post works some time.
    To you it seems. If the voters were impressed with the likes of Swinson, Soubry etc they could have kept their seats. None did.
    They voted against the desperate stunts of Swinson to block Brexit - and for the desperate stunts of the SNP? The combined Lib Dem/SNP vote in Swinson's seat totalling 74%?

    Surely this election result provides enough ammunition for sensible points to be made by PB Tories, without descending to quite this level of absurdity.
    74% is not a very high combined total when you've got a party leader in your seat.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    All's fair if it's legal and tests the robustness of the Constitution (cf prorogation of parliament). For me it was the fanatics of the ERG who frustrated Brexit for so long.

    And what have they ended up with before anyone crows at their victory? A path to a united Ireland. Well done them.

    They've ended up winning. They've got a deal much more to their liking, a Parliament much more to their liking and will get a final Brexit agreement much more to their liking.

    The ERG have won. The idea they "frustrated Brexit" is a fallacy that should have long since been put down now.

    As for the path to the united Ireland, that may be relevant if you were talking about the DUP not the ERG. Of those who opposed May's deal the ERG are big winners and the DUP, Tiggers, Labour, Lib Dems and Conservative Remainers are the big losers.
    Leave has won via Direct Democracy and Parliamentary Democracy, there is nothing really left to say.
    I am sure leavers will have plenty more to say about this!
    We are all leavers now brother!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    No, they gave her one.....

    “Thank you for supporting us railroaders in the fight against climate change! We were happy that you travelled with us on Saturday in the ICE 74 ... but it would have been even nicer, had you also reported how friendly and competently you were looked after by our team at your seat in the first class.”

    DB confirmed that Greta had travelled first class between the cities of Kassel and Hamburg.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/15/greta-thunberg-in-twitter-spat-with-german-rail-firm
    You forgot to quote the part of that article that said she got a seat only more than four hours into her journey.

    You were rushing to make a point, perhaps, and missed it?
    P
    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    Odd, you are normally booked on a specific service with a seat reservation on a DB long distance service. Unless she was doing it on a QdL or Land ticket in which case it's regional and local trains only without bookable seats.
    No - she didn't have a seat reservation. As I explained in the first post you quoted, according to her she was offered a seat more than four hours into her journey - for the final third of it.

    Quite possibly she shouldn't have complained, on the basis that four hours sitting on the floor never did us any harm when we were young. But let's at least get the facts straight.
    Floor to sit on? luxury! When I were a lad, we had to bluddy stand on trains, else guard gave us a clip round t’ear.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    twitter.com/MarkerJParker/status/1206594291285581824

    It will be interesting to know how many of those the public could name. Not only do they now have bugger all MPs, they don't even have the likes of Uncle Vice or Norman Lamb.
    I can see Tim Farren at the back.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543
    Sandpit said:

    twitter.com/MarkerJParker/status/1206594291285581824

    It will be interesting to know how many of those the public could name. Not only do they now have bugger all MPs, they don't even have the likes of Uncle Vice or Norman Lamb.
    Layla, Sarah, ... , err...
    Can you name the missing MP?
  • Pulpstar said:
    Missing in action. That's the 10 other MPs plus Sal Brinton, I think.
    Damn,....thats just...sad.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, we have an American floor-crosser.

    Congressman Jeff van Drew leaving the Democrats and joining the Republicans over Trump’s impeachment.

    What.....there has to be more to the story than that? Why would any democrat being going to the Republicans. You would think if anything it would be the other way around.
    I think he’s in a very marginal district in NJ, and is well to the right of the average Democrat.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7796061/Five-employees-Rep-Jeff-Van-Drew-RESIGN-lawmakers-decision-join-Republicans.html
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,844
    edited December 2019
    isam said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    All's fair if it's legal and tests the robustness of the Constitution (cf prorogation of parliament). For me it was the fanatics of the ERG who frustrated Brexit for so long.

    And what have they ended up with before anyone crows at their victory? A path to a united Ireland. Well done them.

    They've ended up winning. They've got a deal much more to their liking, a Parliament much more to their liking and will get a final Brexit agreement much more to their liking.

    The ERG have won. The idea they "frustrated Brexit" is a fallacy that should have long since been put down now.

    As for the path to the united Ireland, that may be relevant if you were talking about the DUP not the ERG. Of those who opposed May's deal the ERG are big winners and the DUP, Tiggers, Labour, Lib Dems and Conservative Remainers are the big losers.
    Leave has won via Direct Democracy and Parliamentary Democracy, there is nothing really left to say.
    I am sure leavers will have plenty more to say about this!
    We are all leavers now brother!
    Well I hope that the passengers on the leave train remember who chose the destination and who they chose to drive the train. Whether it goes right or wrong they should take responsibility.
  • Pulpstar said:
    He used to gut fish for a living!
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited December 2019

    BBC: "Aaron Bell, now Tory MP for Newcastle-under-Lyme, is used to being on camera thanks to multiple quiz show appearances. Mr Bell has been on University Challenge, the Krypton Factor in 2009 and Only Connect." No mention of his PB connection.

    More importantly he was also on Deal or No Deal.
    How did he get on?
    "WHILE most people in the betting industry have been busy trying to work out impossible races like the Pertemps Final Handicap Hurdle at Cheltenham, one Bet365 employee had his mind on other puzzles recently.

    Bet365's Aaron Bell was crowned The Krypton Factor champion on Thursday with an astonishingly high score of 47 and that was after making himself second favourite to win the ITV gameshow.

    The trading development manager has been a regular on the telly over the years, notably picking up £25,000 on Deal Or No Deal, and his addiction to gameshows led Bell to naming the tables at his weddings after the programmes he had previously been on.

    As well as The Krypton Factor and Deal Or No Deal, Bell has also appeared on Fifteen To One, University Challenge, Eggheads, TV Scrabble, Defectors, Memory Bank, Brainteaser, The Waiting Game and Playing For Time, while his wife made an appearance on Golden Balls.

    Bet365 spokesman Steve Freeth said: "Hopefully he will now stop signing autographs for the tea ladies and concentrate on pushing the company forward!" "
    This was his Deal or No Deal...interesting insight into how a pro thinks/calculates about risk and probability!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIbEdzrR4Vc
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    No, they gave her one.....

    “Thank you for supporting us railroaders in the fight against climate change! We were happy that you travelled with us on Saturday in the ICE 74 ... but it would have been even nicer, had you also reported how friendly and competently you were looked after by our team at your seat in the first class.”

    DB confirmed that Greta had travelled first class between the cities of Kassel and Hamburg.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/15/greta-thunberg-in-twitter-spat-with-german-rail-firm
    You forgot to quote the part of that article that said she got a seat only more than four hours into her journey.

    You were rushing to make a point, perhaps, and missed it?
    P
    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    Odd, you are normally booked on a specific service with a seat reservation on a DB long distance service. Unless she was doing it on a QdL or Land ticket in which case it's regional and local trains only without bookable seats.
    No - she didn't have a seat reservation. As I explained in the first post you quoted, according to her she was offered a seat more than four hours into her journey - for the final third of it.

    Quite possibly she shouldn't have complained, on the basis that four hours sitting on the floor never did us any harm when we were young. But let's at least get the facts straight.
    Floor to sit on? luxury! When I were a lad, we had to bluddy stand on trains, else guard gave us a clip round t’ear.
    Stand on't floor?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212
    Where is the Change UK photo ?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pulpstar said:

    Where is the Change UK photo ?

    What price can I have that none of them EVER eat in Nandos again?
  • BBC: "Aaron Bell, now Tory MP for Newcastle-under-Lyme, is used to being on camera thanks to multiple quiz show appearances. Mr Bell has been on University Challenge, the Krypton Factor in 2009 and Only Connect." No mention of his PB connection.

    More importantly he was also on Deal or No Deal.
    How did he get on?
    "WHILE most people in the betting industry have been busy trying to work out impossible races like the Pertemps Final Handicap Hurdle at Cheltenham, one Bet365 employee had his mind on other puzzles recently.

    Bet365's Aaron Bell was crowned The Krypton Factor champion on Thursday with an astonishingly high score of 47 and that was after making himself second favourite to win the ITV gameshow.

    The trading development manager has been a regular on the telly over the years, notably picking up £25,000 on Deal Or No Deal, and his addiction to gameshows led Bell to naming the tables at his weddings after the programmes he had previously been on.

    As well as The Krypton Factor and Deal Or No Deal, Bell has also appeared on Fifteen To One, University Challenge, Eggheads, TV Scrabble, Defectors, Memory Bank, Brainteaser, The Waiting Game and Playing For Time, while his wife made an appearance on Golden Balls.

    Bet365 spokesman Steve Freeth said: "Hopefully he will now stop signing autographs for the tea ladies and concentrate on pushing the company forward!" "
    To finish off your teatime viewing... I note that somehow this extensive list ("As well as The Krypton Factor and Deal Or No Deal, Bell has also appeared on Fifteen To One, University Challenge, Eggheads, TV Scrabble, Defectors, Memory Bank, Brainteaser, The Waiting Game and Playing For Time") misses the fact that not only did he make an appearance on Only Connect, his team - the Epicureans - were Champions! And then crowned Champion of Champions!! But could they become Champion of Champion of Champions??

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzaWpkHQ5JQ
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236

    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, we have an American floor-crosser.

    Congressman Jeff van Drew leaving the Democrats and joining the Republicans over Trump’s impeachment.

    What.....there has to be more to the story than that? Why would any democrat being going to the Republicans. You would think if anything it would be the other way around.
    He's the kind of Democrat who made Lieberman look like Bernie S. - and recently mused about voting for Trump next year.
    I'm not sure the Democrats gain all that much from running right wing candidates in what are staunchly Republican districts. The negative PR from events like this outweighs the occasional vote they get from them in Congress.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edited December 2019
    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, we have an American floor-crosser.

    Congressman Jeff van Drew leaving the Democrats and joining the Republicans over Trump’s impeachment.

    Literally days before then 10th anniversary of the last defection. A disastrous and somewhat amusing story, Parker Griffiths won a tight district in Alabama and only a year into his term defected to the Republicans. But just 6 months later he lost his primary and so never ran for re-election as a Republican. The primary challenger won the seat, so Griffiths primaried him back 2 years on, but lost decisively. Finally he defected back to the Democrats and ran for Governor, losing.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, we have an American floor-crosser.

    Congressman Jeff van Drew leaving the Democrats and joining the Republicans over Trump’s impeachment.

    What.....there has to be more to the story than that? Why would any democrat being going to the Republicans. You would think if anything it would be the other way around.
    I think he’s in a very marginal district in NJ, and is well to the right of the average Democrat.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7796061/Five-employees-Rep-Jeff-Van-Drew-RESIGN-lawmakers-decision-join-Republicans.html
    He was going to get primaried and his polling numbers for the primary were utterly horrific- something like 17% support.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    twitter.com/MarkerJParker/status/1206594291285581824

    It will be interesting to know how many of those the public could name. Not only do they now have bugger all MPs, they don't even have the likes of Uncle Vice or Norman Lamb.
    Uncle Vice is an awesome typo.
    Isn't that the title of a Christmas Movie?

    Uncle Vice comes to stay over the festive period, handing out a selection of interesting gifts to the rest of the family, and finding his way into all manner of hilarious scrapes.

    Before being arrested on New Year's Eve.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    No, they gave her one.....

    “Thank you for supporting us railroaders in the fight against climate change! We were happy that you travelled with us on Saturday in the ICE 74 ... but it would have been even nicer, had you also reported how friendly and competently you were looked after by our team at your seat in the first class.”

    DB confirmed that Greta had travelled first class between the cities of Kassel and Hamburg.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/15/greta-thunberg-in-twitter-spat-with-german-rail-firm
    You forgot to quote the part of that article that said she got a seat only more than four hours into her journey.

    You were rushing to make a point, perhaps, and missed it?
    P
    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    Odd, you are normally booked on a specific service with a seat reservation on a DB long distance service. Unless she was doing it on a QdL or Land ticket in which case it's regional and local trains only without bookable seats.
    No - she didn't have a seat reservation. As I explained in the first post you quoted, according to her she was offered a seat more than four hours into her journey - for the final third of it.

    Quite possibly she shouldn't have complained, on the basis that four hours sitting on the floor never did us any harm when we were young. But let's at least get the facts straight.
    Floor to sit on? luxury! When I were a lad, we had to bluddy stand on trains, else guard gave us a clip round t’ear.
    You'd trains ?
    Bluddy lux'ry. We 'us lucky to 'ave cart to drag.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    If so, and should Jezza anoint her, given the current membership I guess this is a walk over?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    edited December 2019

    twitter.com/MarkerJParker/status/1206594291285581824

    It will be interesting to know how many of those the public could name. Not only do they now have bugger all MPs, they don't even have the likes of Uncle Vice or Norman Lamb.
    Uncle Vice is an awesome typo.
    Isn't that the title of a Christmas Movie?

    Uncle Vice comes to stay over the festive period, handing out a selection of interesting gifts to the rest of the family, and finding his way into all manner of hilarious scrapes.

    Before being arrested on New Year's Eve.
    After being pulled off New Year's Eve, surely ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    Quincel said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, we have an American floor-crosser.

    Congressman Jeff van Drew leaving the Democrats and joining the Republicans over Trump’s impeachment.

    Literally days before then 10th anniversary of the last defection. A disastrous and somewhat amusing story, Parker Griffiths won a tight district in Alabama and only a year into his term defected to the Republicans. But just 6 months later he lost his primary and so never ran for re-election as a Republican. The primary challenger won the seat, so Griffiths primaried him back 2 years on, but lost decisively. Finally he defected back to the Democrats and ran for Governor, losing.
    Boris being half American explains much...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    No, they gave her one.....

    “Thank you for supporting us railroaders in the fight against climate change! We were happy that you travelled with us on Saturday in the ICE 74 ... but it would have been even nicer, had you also reported how friendly and competently you were looked after by our team at your seat in the first class.”

    DB confirmed that Greta had travelled first class between the cities of Kassel and Hamburg.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/15/greta-thunberg-in-twitter-spat-with-german-rail-firm
    You forgot to quote the part of that article that said she got a seat only more than four hours into her journey.

    You were rushing to make a point, perhaps, and missed it?
    P
    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    Odd, you are normally booked on a specific service with a seat reservation on a DB long distance service. Unless she was doing it on a QdL or Land ticket in which case it's regional and local trains only without bookable seats.
    No - she didn't have a seat reservation. As I explained in the first post you quoted, according to her she was offered a seat more than four hours into her journey - for the final third of it.

    Quite possibly she shouldn't have complained, on the basis that four hours sitting on the floor never did us any harm when we were young. But let's at least get the facts straight.
    Floor to sit on? luxury! When I were a lad, we had to bluddy stand on trains, else guard gave us a clip round t’ear.
    You'd trains ?
    Bluddy lux'ry. We 'us lucky to 'ave cart to drag.
    Cart? You were lucky. We ‘ad to carry the packhorse.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212
    isam said:

    If so, and should Jezza anoint her, given the current membership I guess this is a walk over?
    I thought Long Bailey didn't do too badly at all in the various TV debates. Rayner looks fighting fit too judging by her appearance at the count.
    They won't win in 2024 but Labour could do far worse.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    isam said:

    If so, and should Jezza anoint her, given the current membership I guess this is a walk over?
    Yes. In which case Labour are ducked.

    That is a strange autocorrect effort, but I’m leaving it. Autocorrect has been completely quackers recently.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    If so, and should Jezza anoint her, given the current membership I guess this is a walk over?
    I thought Long Bailey didn't do too badly at all in the various TV debates. Rayner looks fighting fit too judging by her appearance at the count.
    They won't win in 2024 but Labour could do far worse.
    Well, yes. They could elect Richard Burgon, or Ian Lavery.

    But being far better than those two doesn’t mean Wrong Daily is any good.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    isam said:

    Is RLB the lay of the century to be next leader? (apart from the time Boris was)

    6/4???!

    This is Labour. The party that went from having a Jewish leader to an antisemitic mess in less time than it takes to get to the next Olympics. There is nothing that is too stupid for them to embrace and tenderly snog.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2019
    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    If so, and should Jezza anoint her, given the current membership I guess this is a walk over?
    Yes. In which case Labour are ducked.

    That is a strange autocorrect effort, but I’m leaving it. Autocorrect has been completely quackers recently.
    Crikey I am in a betting hole! Might have to join and vote for Jess Phillips!! Is it still three quid?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited December 2019
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    If so, and should Jezza anoint her, given the current membership I guess this is a walk over?
    I thought Long Bailey didn't do too badly at all in the various TV debates. Rayner looks fighting fit too judging by her appearance at the count.
    They won't win in 2024 but Labour could do far worse.
    Well, yes. They could elect Richard Burgon, or Ian Lavery.

    But being far better than those two doesn’t mean Wrong Daily is any good.
    Its the one more heave strategy with a continuity Corbynista ticket. Even with the biggest defeat since 1930s, they are still going to go for more of the same.

    I don't see how the likes of Southam Observer ever get his party back.

    One thing the Tories need to do though is not let the ideas go unopposed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    If so, and should Jezza anoint her, given the current membership I guess this is a walk over?
    I thought Long Bailey didn't do too badly at all in the various TV debates. Rayner looks fighting fit too judging by her appearance at the count.
    They won't win in 2024 but Labour could do far worse.
    Well, yes. They could elect Richard Burgon, or Ian Lavery.

    But being far better than those two doesn’t mean Wrong Daily is any good.
    Its the one more heave strategy with a continuity Corbynista ticket. Even with the biggest defeat since 1930s, they are still going to go for more of the same.

    I don't see how the likes of Southam Observer ever get his party back.

    One thing the Tories need to do though is not let the ideas go unopposed.
    Well, one more heave will resolve it.

    To the advantage of the Liberal Democrats.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    If so, and should Jezza anoint her, given the current membership I guess this is a walk over?
    I thought Long Bailey didn't do too badly at all in the various TV debates. Rayner looks fighting fit too judging by her appearance at the count.
    They won't win in 2024 but Labour could do far worse.
    Well, yes. They could elect Richard Burgon, or Ian Lavery.

    But being far better than those two doesn’t mean Wrong Daily is any good.
    Its the one more heave strategy with a continuity Corbynista ticket. Even with the biggest defeat since 1930s, they are still going to go for more of the same.

    I don't see how the likes of Southam Observer ever get his party back.

    One thing the Tories need to do though is not let the ideas go unopposed.
    Well, one more heave will resolve it.

    To the advantage of the Liberal Democrats.
    I bloody hope so.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    isam said:

    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    If so, and should Jezza anoint her, given the current membership I guess this is a walk over?
    Yes. In which case Labour are ducked.

    That is a strange autocorrect effort, but I’m leaving it. Autocorrect has been completely quackers recently.
    Crikey I am in a betting hole! Might have to join and vote for Jess Phillips!! Is it still three quid?
    It was £25 last time. Not sure if they’ve set a price yet.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2019

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    If so, and should Jezza anoint her, given the current membership I guess this is a walk over?
    I thought Long Bailey didn't do too badly at all in the various TV debates. Rayner looks fighting fit too judging by her appearance at the count.
    They won't win in 2024 but Labour could do far worse.
    Well, yes. They could elect Richard Burgon, or Ian Lavery.

    But being far better than those two doesn’t mean Wrong Daily is any good.
    Its the one more heave strategy with a continuity Corbynista ticket. Even with the biggest defeat since 1930s, they are still going to go for more of the same.

    I don't see how the likes of Southam Observer ever get his party back.

    One thing the Tories need to do though is not let the ideas go unopposed.
    What the likes of Southam Observer should do, in my opinion, is not have a party to lose, and have to get back. Why cling on to an institution when you disagree with its policies and dislike its leaders so often? This is why decrepit old parties limp on, it hinders progress
  • twitter.com/MarkerJParker/status/1206594291285581824

    It will be interesting to know how many of those the public could name. Not only do they now have bugger all MPs, they don't even have the likes of Uncle Vice or Norman Lamb.
    I love those "do you recognise this man/woman?" questions that pollsters sometimes ask. Tend to prick many a politician's ego. (As do the politics rounds on Pointless, if we're on the subject of TV shows.)

    Even quite prominent cabinet ministers that we regard as well-known faces are often obscure to the bulk of the electorate. To put things in context, on average roughly 4 million people watch the BBC News at Ten and 2 milllion the ITV equivalent. Newsnight gets about 300k, Peston about half a million. Not sure about Channel 4 news since they give the "reach" figure rather than how many people on average watch each broadcast, but they reckon something like 7 million people watch at least 15 minutes of C4 news each month - I think it's under 1 million people per broadcast.

    I would be surprised if any of those Lib Dems bar Tim Farron are recognisable to more than 20%, or even 10%, of the population.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    twitter.com/MarkerJParker/status/1206594291285581824

    It will be interesting to know how many of those the public could name. Not only do they now have bugger all MPs, they don't even have the likes of Uncle Vice or Norman Lamb.
    Uncle Vice is an awesome typo.
    Isn't that the title of a Christmas Movie?

    Uncle Vice comes to stay over the festive period, handing out a selection of interesting gifts to the rest of the family, and finding his way into all manner of hilarious scrapes.

    Before being arrested on New Year's Eve.
    But just because it happens at Christmas...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited December 2019

    twitter.com/MarkerJParker/status/1206594291285581824

    It will be interesting to know how many of those the public could name. Not only do they now have bugger all MPs, they don't even have the likes of Uncle Vice or Norman Lamb.
    I love those "do you recognise this man/woman?" questions that pollsters sometimes ask. Tend to prick many a politician's ego. (As do the politics rounds on Pointless, if we're on the subject of TV shows.)

    Even quite prominent cabinet ministers that we regard as well-known faces are often obscure to the bulk of the electorate. To put things in context, on average roughly 4 million people watch the BBC News at Ten and 2 milllion the ITV equivalent. Newsnight gets about 300k, Peston about half a million. Not sure about Channel 4 news since they give the "reach" figure rather than how many people on average watch each broadcast, but they reckon something like 7 million people watch at least 15 minutes of C4 news each month - I think it's under 1 million people per broadcast.

    I would be surprised if any of those Lib Dems bar Tim Farron are recognisable to more than 20%, or even 10%, of the population.
    That is a valid point. Most of the public can't name more than a handful or two of politicians and their current correct position.

    I do think Cable was one that people do know.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    The purity of the Momentum brand is far more important than Labour winning. Its scarcely credible but its true. Continuity Corbyn. CCHQ must be laughing.
  • My Labour leadership book is an unholy mess. I'm sure I had good reasons at the time to bet on Yvette Cooper, Stella Creasy, John McDonnell, Angela Eagle, Laura Pidcock, Tom Watson and Owen Smith [who?], but those are not exactly looking like far-sighted bets now.

    Luckily I am mildly green on RLB, but even so...
  • My Labour leadership book is an unholy mess. I'm sure I had good reasons at the time to bet on Yvette Cooper, Stella Creasy, John McDonnell, Angela Eagle, Laura Pidcock, Tom Watson and Owen Smith [who?], but those are not exactly looking like far-sighted bets now.

    Luckily I am mildly green on RLB, but even so...

    Likewise.

  • I've bet on Daisy with 2 bookies so far.... yellow peril need a brand new reboot and she's the ticket I reckon....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,472
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    No, they gave her one.....

    “Thank you for supporting us railroaders in the fight against climate change! We were happy that you travelled with us on Saturday in the ICE 74 ... but it would have been even nicer, had you also reported how friendly and competently you were looked after by our team at your seat in the first class.”

    DB confirmed that Greta had travelled first class between the cities of Kassel and Hamburg.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/15/greta-thunberg-in-twitter-spat-with-german-rail-firm
    You forgot to quote the part of that article that said she got a seat only more than four hours into her journey.

    You were rushing to make a point, perhaps, and missed it?
    P
    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    Odd, you are normally booked on a specific service with a seat reservation on a DB long distance service. Unless she was doing it on a QdL or Land ticket in which case it's regional and local trains only without bookable seats.
    No - she didn't have a seat reservation. As I explained in the first post you quoted, according to her she was offered a seat more than four hours into her journey - for the final third of it.

    Quite possibly she shouldn't have complained, on the basis that four hours sitting on the floor never did us any harm when we were young. But let's at least get the facts straight.
    What happened to her minders? I probably should be expected to be a supporter, but I'm more than somewhat suspicious of the string-pulling around and behind young Miss Thunberg
  • isam said:

    If so, and should Jezza anoint her, given the current membership I guess this is a walk over?
    Please le it be so.

    All Boris’ dreams will have come true.

    No, not those sort of dreams.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Is RLB the lay of the century to be next leader? (apart from the time Boris was)

    6/4???!

    This is Labour. The party that went from having a Jewish leader to an antisemitic mess in less time than it takes to get to the next Olympics. There is nothing that is too stupid for them to embrace and tenderly snog.
    Well, apart from Tories, obviously.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    BBC: "Aaron Bell, now Tory MP for Newcastle-under-Lyme, is used to being on camera thanks to multiple quiz show appearances. Mr Bell has been on University Challenge, the Krypton Factor in 2009 and Only Connect." No mention of his PB connection.

    More importantly he was also on Deal or No Deal.
    How did he get on?
    "WHILE most people in the betting industry have been busy trying to work out impossible races like the Pertemps Final Handicap Hurdle at Cheltenham, one Bet365 employee had his mind on other puzzles recently.

    Bet365's Aaron Bell was crowned The Krypton Factor champion on Thursday with an astonishingly high score of 47 and that was after making himself second favourite to win the ITV gameshow.

    The trading development manager has been a regular on the telly over the years, notably picking up £25,000 on Deal Or No Deal, and his addiction to gameshows led Bell to naming the tables at his weddings after the programmes he had previously been on.

    As well as The Krypton Factor and Deal Or No Deal, Bell has also appeared on Fifteen To One, University Challenge, Eggheads, TV Scrabble, Defectors, Memory Bank, Brainteaser, The Waiting Game and Playing For Time, while his wife made an appearance on Golden Balls.

    Bet365 spokesman Steve Freeth said: "Hopefully he will now stop signing autographs for the tea ladies and concentrate on pushing the company forward!" "
    This was his Deal or No Deal...interesting insight into how a pro thinks/calculates about risk and probability!

    htps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIbEdzrR4Vc
    That was a very good game!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    No, they gave her one.....

    “Thank you for supporting us railroaders in the fight against climate change! We were happy that you travelled with us on Saturday in the ICE 74 ... but it would have been even nicer, had you also reported how friendly and competently you were looked after by our team at your seat in the first class.”

    DB confirmed that Greta had travelled first class between the cities of Kassel and Hamburg.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/15/greta-thunberg-in-twitter-spat-with-german-rail-firm
    You forgot to quote the part of that article that said she got a seat only more than four hours into her journey.

    You were rushing to make a point, perhaps, and missed it?
    P
    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    Odd, you are normally booked on a specific service with a seat reservation on a DB long distance service. Unless she was doing it on a QdL or Land ticket in which case it's regional and local trains only without bookable seats.
    No - she didn't have a seat reservation. As I explained in the first post you quoted, according to her she was offered a seat more than four hours into her journey - for the final third of it.

    Quite possibly she shouldn't have complained, on the basis that four hours sitting on the floor never did us any harm when we were young. But let's at least get the facts straight.
    Floor to sit on? luxury! When I were a lad, we had to bluddy stand on trains, else guard gave us a clip round t’ear.
    You'd trains ?
    Bluddy lux'ry. We 'us lucky to 'ave cart to drag.
    Cart? You were lucky. We ‘ad to carry the packhorse.
    So you had arms, huh? Wuss... :)
  • What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    No, they gave her one.....

    “Thank you for supporting us railroaders in the fight against climate change! We were happy that you travelled with us on Saturday in the ICE 74 ... but it would have been even nicer, had you also reported how friendly and competently you were looked after by our team at your seat in the first class.”

    DB confirmed that Greta had travelled first class between the cities of Kassel and Hamburg.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/15/greta-thunberg-in-twitter-spat-with-german-rail-firm
    You forgot to quote the part of that article that said she got a seat only more than four hours into her journey.

    You were rushing to make a point, perhaps, and missed it?
    P
    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    Odd, you are normally booked on a specific service with a seat reservation on a DB long distance service. Unless she was doing it on a QdL or Land ticket in which case it's regional and local trains only without bookable seats.
    No - she didn't have a seat reservation. As I explained in the first post you quoted, according to her she was offered a seat more than four hours into her journey - for the final third of it.

    Quite possibly she shouldn't have complained, on the basis that four hours sitting on the floor never did us any harm when we were young. But let's at least get the facts straight.
    Floor to sit on? luxury! When I were a lad, we had to bluddy stand on trains, else guard gave us a clip round t’ear.
    You'd trains ?
    Bluddy lux'ry. We 'us lucky to 'ave cart to drag.
    Cart? You were lucky. We ‘ad to carry the packhorse.
    So you had arms, huh? Wuss... :)
    :smiley:
  • Have we heard anything from Yvette yet? Is she running?
  • What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    It’s the “Everyone is a winner, snowflake sports day” effect.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    isam said:

    If so, and should Jezza anoint her, given the current membership I guess this is a walk over?
    Please le it be so.

    All Boris’ dreams will have come true.

    No, not those sort of dreams.

    I now have a vision of him screwing Rebecca Long Bailey...across the despatch box...
  • Peak Thornbery....

    Brexit with rollercoasters: the £3.5bn London Resort fantasy theme park

    With its rickety rides, fire-breathing dragons and Arthurian castle, the enchanted realms proposed for the Thames Estuary park are little Britain writ large.

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2019/dec/16/london-resort-theme-park-thames-estuary-brexit

    How dare a British theme park have a union jack....forget all the jobs it will create, it is a disgusting Gammon theme park.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864

    What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    Not sure that they get this democracy thing but they are in line with current educational "thinking" (I use the word loosely) in that all must win prizes.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    Have we heard anything from Yvette yet? Is she running?

    Do we really want a leader representing a marginal seat?

    Never thought I would have to say that about Cooper's constituency!
  • BBC: "Aaron Bell, now Tory MP for Newcastle-under-Lyme, is used to being on camera thanks to multiple quiz show appearances. Mr Bell has been on University Challenge, the Krypton Factor in 2009 and Only Connect." No mention of his PB connection.

    More importantly he was also on Deal or No Deal.
    How did he get on?
    "WHILE most people in the betting industry have been busy trying to work out impossible races like the Pertemps Final Handicap Hurdle at Cheltenham, one Bet365 employee had his mind on other puzzles recently.

    Bet365's Aaron Bell was crowned The Krypton Factor champion on Thursday with an astonishingly high score of 47 and that was after making himself second favourite to win the ITV gameshow.

    The trading development manager has been a regular on the telly over the years, notably picking up £25,000 on Deal Or No Deal, and his addiction to gameshows led Bell to naming the tables at his weddings after the programmes he had previously been on.

    As well as The Krypton Factor and Deal Or No Deal, Bell has also appeared on Fifteen To One, University Challenge, Eggheads, TV Scrabble, Defectors, Memory Bank, Brainteaser, The Waiting Game and Playing For Time, while his wife made an appearance on Golden Balls.

    Bet365 spokesman Steve Freeth said: "Hopefully he will now stop signing autographs for the tea ladies and concentrate on pushing the company forward!" "
    This was his Deal or No Deal...interesting insight into how a pro thinks/calculates about risk and probability!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIbEdzrR4Vc
    That was entertaining!
  • What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    Its bulls**t
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,472
    DavidL said:

    Starmer is intelligent, articulate, doesn't foam at the mouth and can carry a coherent argument for more than 5 minutes. What on earth makes anyone think he has a chance?

    You wouldn't call him charismatic though, would you.
    Maybe of course he hasn't had the chance to prove it, but he doesn't seem to have sought jobs where he might have to show any. Even in the McLibel case he was in the background.
  • What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    As a PR fan I thought they were going to be misrepresented by your post but they are not! It is barmy.

    Their press release also specifically mentions LD under representation but doesnt mention the Brexit party who have it even worse.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    Have we heard anything from Yvette yet? Is she running?

    Do we really want a leader representing a marginal seat?

    Never thought I would have to say that about Cooper's constituency!
    That may of course be one potential drawback with Rayner. Majority of just 4000 and a Brexit Party vote of over 3,000
  • novanova Posts: 692

    twitter.com/MarkerJParker/status/1206594291285581824

    It will be interesting to know how many of those the public could name. Not only do they now have bugger all MPs, they don't even have the likes of Uncle Vice or Norman Lamb.
    I love those "do you recognise this man/woman?" questions that pollsters sometimes ask. Tend to prick many a politician's ego. (As do the politics rounds on Pointless, if we're on the subject of TV shows.)

    Even quite prominent cabinet ministers that we regard as well-known faces are often obscure to the bulk of the electorate. To put things in context, on average roughly 4 million people watch the BBC News at Ten and 2 milllion the ITV equivalent. Newsnight gets about 300k, Peston about half a million. Not sure about Channel 4 news since they give the "reach" figure rather than how many people on average watch each broadcast, but they reckon something like 7 million people watch at least 15 minutes of C4 news each month - I think it's under 1 million people per broadcast.

    I would be surprised if any of those Lib Dems bar Tim Farron are recognisable to more than 20%, or even 10%, of the population.
    That is a valid point. Most of the public can't name more than a handful or two of politicians and their current correct position.

    I do think Cable was one that people do know.
    I worked in a factory in 1989 and there was some confusion over who Margaret Thatcher was.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,472
    edited December 2019

    What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    As a PR fan I thought they were going to be misrepresented by your post but they are not! It is barmy.

    Their press release also specifically mentions LD under representation but doesnt mention the Brexit party who have it even worse.
    Apart from their bessies all over the Government benches. A decent PR system would give them seats of course.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2019

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    No, they gave her one.....

    “Thank you for supporting us railroaders in the fight against climate change! We were happy that you travelled with us on Saturday in the ICE 74 ... but it would have been even nicer, had you also reported how friendly and competently you were looked after by our team at your seat in the first class.”

    DB confirmed that Greta had travelled first class between the cities of Kassel and Hamburg.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/15/greta-thunberg-in-twitter-spat-with-german-rail-firm
    You forgot to quote the part of that article that said she got a seat only more than four hours into her journey.

    You were rushing to make a point, perhaps, and missed it?
    P
    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    Odd, you are normally booked on a specific service with a seat reservation on a DB long distance service. Unless she was doing it on a QdL or Land ticket in which case it's regional and local trains only without bookable seats.
    No - she didn't have a seat reservation. As I explained in the first post you quoted, according to her she was offered a seat more than four hours into her journey - for the final third of it.

    Quite possibly she shouldn't have complained, on the basis that four hours sitting on the floor never did us any harm when we were young. But let's at least get the facts straight.
    What happened to her minders? I probably should be expected to be a supporter, but I'm more than somewhat suspicious of the string-pulling around and behind young Miss Thunberg
    You think it might be a bit suspect that someone who can simultaenously be a vulnerable schoolgirl with a mental illness when attacked for her opinions, and a fully compos mentis young adult with a right to be taken seriously when making speeches, has been found as the poster girl for a worthy campaign?

    You philistine.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864

    DavidL said:

    Starmer is intelligent, articulate, doesn't foam at the mouth and can carry a coherent argument for more than 5 minutes. What on earth makes anyone think he has a chance?

    You wouldn't call him charismatic though, would you.
    Maybe of course he hasn't had the chance to prove it, but he doesn't seem to have sought jobs where he might have to show any. Even in the McLibel case he was in the background.
    No I wouldn't. But neither was Attlee...who beat Boris's hero and role model, probably our most charismatic PM of all time. I think a little bit of precision whilst Boris floats off onto his latest fantasy could be quite effective and Labour have no one who even gets close on charisma.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Pulpstar said:
    Missing in action. That's the 10 other MPs plus Sal Brinton, I think.
    Someone has to take the photo, silly ;)
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    On the beeb (Radio 4 and World Service) everyone seems to be talking up Lisa Nandy (sp). It's not a name I know.

    I am also waiting with baited breath for the end of the period of reflection, when the conclusion (based on past form) will be "We didn't work hard enough to get our message across and need to explore how we can do better". The idea that it was the wrong message will probably not get much currency.

    - or am I just totally cynical?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,385
    DavidL said:

    What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    Not sure that they get this democracy thing but they are in line with current educational "thinking" (I use the word loosely) in that all must win prizes.
    33.9% of the French electorate are unrepresented by the President of the Republic.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864

    DavidL said:

    What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    Not sure that they get this democracy thing but they are in line with current educational "thinking" (I use the word loosely) in that all must win prizes.
    33.9% of the French electorate are unrepresented by the President of the Republic.
    And that's amongst those who bothered to vote!
  • What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    As a PR fan I thought they were going to be misrepresented by your post but they are not! It is barmy.

    Their press release also specifically mentions LD under representation but doesnt mention the Brexit party who have it even worse.
    Apart from their bessies all over the Government benches.
    As much as I dislike the Brexit Party being a believer in PR involves sticking up for parties I disagree with when the system is unjust against them. 642,000 votes for zero MPs cant be right.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited December 2019
    Tim_B said:

    On the beeb (Radio 4 and World Service) everyone seems to be talking up Lisa Nandy (sp). It's not a name I know.

    I am also waiting with baited breath for the end of the period of reflection, when the conclusion (based on past form) will be "We didn't work hard enough to get our message across and need to explore how we can do better". The idea that it was the wrong message will probably not get much currency.

    - or am I just totally cynical?

    She is much more moderate and was part of the Miliband's shadow cabinet. Also, she is one of the few Labour MPs who are not blaming the media, the Jews, the Illuminati, etc for Labour's defeat.

    She is making it clear that in her opinion people in these "Red Wall" communities have just been ignored for 30+ years (both Tory and Labour governments) and that is why they voted for Brexit and now have voted Tory.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    My Labour leadership book is an unholy mess. I'm sure I had good reasons at the time to bet on Yvette Cooper, Stella Creasy, John McDonnell, Angela Eagle, Laura Pidcock, Tom Watson and Owen Smith [who?], but those are not exactly looking like far-sighted bets now.

    Luckily I am mildly green on RLB, but even so...

    On the contrary, backing Stella was a tad too far-sighted.
  • isam said:

    Is RLB the lay of the century to be next leader? (apart from the time Boris was)

    6/4???!

    Head before heart, so no. Never underestimate the capacity of Labour to score own goals.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,385
    Chris said:

    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    No, they gave her one.....

    “Thank you for supporting us railroaders in the fight against climate change! We were happy that you travelled with us on Saturday in the ICE 74 ... but it would have been even nicer, had you also reported how friendly and competently you were looked after by our team at your seat in the first class.”

    DB confirmed that Greta had travelled first class between the cities of Kassel and Hamburg.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/15/greta-thunberg-in-twitter-spat-with-german-rail-firm
    You forgot to quote the part of that article that said she got a seat only more than four hours into her journey.

    You were rushing to make a point, perhaps, and missed it?
    P
    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    Odd, you are normally booked on a specific service with a seat reservation on a DB long distance service. Unless she was doing it on a QdL or Land ticket in which case it's regional and local trains only without bookable seats.
    No - she didn't have a seat reservation. As I explained in the first post you quoted, according to her she was offered a seat more than four hours into her journey - for the final third of it.

    Quite possibly she shouldn't have complained, on the basis that four hours sitting on the floor never did us any harm when we were young. But let's at least get the facts straight.
    Floor to sit on? luxury! When I were a lad, we had to bluddy stand on trains, else guard gave us a clip round t’ear.
    Stand on't floor?
    Thee's 'ad floors?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    As a PR fan I thought they were going to be misrepresented by your post but they are not! It is barmy.

    Their press release also specifically mentions LD under representation but doesnt mention the Brexit party who have it even worse.
    I've often observed sometimes those who want something are the worst at putting forward good arguments as to why.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,472
    isam said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    No, they gave her one.....

    “Thank you for supporting us railroaders in the fight against climate change! We were happy that you travelled with us on Saturday in the ICE 74 ... but it would have been even nicer, had you also reported how friendly and competently you were looked after by our team at your seat in the first class.”

    DB confirmed that Greta had travelled first class between the cities of Kassel and Hamburg.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/15/greta-thunberg-in-twitter-spat-with-german-rail-firm
    You forgot to quote the part of that article that said she got a seat only more than four hours into her journey.

    You were rushing to make a point, perhaps, and missed it?
    P
    Chris said:

    Taking a leaf out of Jezza's book...

    Rail firm claims Greta Thunberg had FIRST CLASS seat after she posts snap of her sat on floor because of ‘overcrowding’

    Surely she had even more cause for complaint, if she'd bought an expensive first-class ticket?
    Odd, you are normally booked on a specific service with a seat reservation on a DB long distance service. Unless she was doing it on a QdL or Land ticket in which case it's regional and local trains only without bookable seats.
    No - she didn't have a seat reservation. As I explained in the first post you quoted, according to her she was offered a seat more than four hours into her journey - for the final third of it.

    Quite possibly she shouldn't have complained, on the basis that four hours sitting on the floor never did us any harm when we were young. But let's at least get the facts straight.
    What happened to her minders? I probably should be expected to be a supporter, but I'm more than somewhat suspicious of the string-pulling around and behind young Miss Thunberg
    You think it might be a bit suspect that someone who can simultaenously be a vulnerable schoolgirl with a mental illness when attacked for her opinions, and a fully compos mentis young adult with a right to be taken seriously when making speeches, has been found as the poster girl for a worthy campaign?

    You philistine.
    That's the nicest thing anyone's written about me for a long time!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    It’s the “Everyone is a winner, snowflake sports day” effect.


    No, it’s the perfectly reasonable view - adopted by most of the world - that the object of an election is to ensure that as many people are represented as possible.

    Our system is designed to make more than half the voters feel like losers. And we wonder why our politics is in trouble.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    IanB2 said:

    What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    It’s the “Everyone is a winner, snowflake sports day” effect.


    No, it’s the perfectly reasonable view - adopted by most of the world - that the object of an election is to ensure that as many people are represented as possible.

    Our system is designed to make more than half the voters feel like losers. And we wonder why our politics is in trouble.
    Surely they should just vote Tory then?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Tim_B said:

    On the beeb (Radio 4 and World Service) everyone seems to be talking up Lisa Nandy (sp). It's not a name I know.

    I am also waiting with baited breath for the end of the period of reflection, when the conclusion (based on past form) will be "We didn't work hard enough to get our message across and need to explore how we can do better". The idea that it was the wrong message will probably not get much currency.

    - or am I just totally cynical?

    This is probably shaping up to be a Bailey/Rayner left wing slate against Nandy and possibly Phillips.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    It’s the “Everyone is a winner, snowflake sports day” effect.


    No, it’s the perfectly reasonable view - adopted by most of the world - that the object of an election is to ensure that as many people are represented as possible.

    Our system is designed to make more than half the voters feel like losers. And we wonder why our politics is in trouble.
    Surely they should just vote Tory then?
    In your humour you cast light upon the problem.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,472
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer is intelligent, articulate, doesn't foam at the mouth and can carry a coherent argument for more than 5 minutes. What on earth makes anyone think he has a chance?

    You wouldn't call him charismatic though, would you.
    Maybe of course he hasn't had the chance to prove it, but he doesn't seem to have sought jobs where he might have to show any. Even in the McLibel case he was in the background.
    No I wouldn't. But neither was Attlee...who beat Boris's hero and role model, probably our most charismatic PM of all time. I think a little bit of precision whilst Boris floats off onto his latest fantasy could be quite effective and Labour have no one who even gets close on charisma.

    Good point. Attlee did have a powerful, experienced and competent team around him though.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,385
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    .



    So it's ironic that 2019 of all elections is the one in which the far left is trying to blame the media for Corbyn's travails. As ever they are searching for a scapegoat in order to escape their own responsibilities for failure.
    What I find amusing is that Brexit barely registered on the TV vox pops during the election. And yet, the moment the Tories romp home, the media magically find people who are prepared to say it was Brexit what won it.
    Because it avoids the truth being discussed..
    Normal people, who are generally unimpressed by lawyers finding loopholes that deny what they see as justice being done, were less impressed with the Remain MPs antics in preventing any deal being done than the MPs and their cronies in the echo chamber
    "Normal people" as reflected by opinion polls have remained split roughly equally between Leave and Remain ever since the referendum.

    Perhaps it's the screaming tabloid headlines you're thinking of.
    It's not.

    Many people who voted Remain, and would again, were unimpressed with the desperate stunts pulled by the likes of Soubry, Allen, Chuka, Swinson etc
    And many people who voted leave, and would again, were unimpressed with the desperate stunts of Johnson, Francois, Cummings and Rees-Mogg.

    For someone who (rightly) complains about a large chunk of the electorate being forgotten by politicians, now your side has won it might be a good time to consider that phrasing leavers as "normal" people is unnecessarily divisive.
    It's you who is saying that I am phrasing only leavers as normal people. I didn't say anything of the sort.
    Your statement defined that a normal person "generally" thinks remain tactics are wrong, it is therefore clearly suggesting that remainers are less normal. Over half the country voted for remain parties and the vast majority of them are perfectly normal.
    Well I don't think Remain voters are abnormal. Stretch it as much as you like to take offence, fine by me
    What quite a few "small R" remainers were not impressed by was this - complicated legal manoeuvrings which avoided actually voting against Brexit, in increasingly bizarre attempts to somehow make the delays to Brexit the fault of Leavers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer is intelligent, articulate, doesn't foam at the mouth and can carry a coherent argument for more than 5 minutes. What on earth makes anyone think he has a chance?

    You wouldn't call him charismatic though, would you.
    Maybe of course he hasn't had the chance to prove it, but he doesn't seem to have sought jobs where he might have to show any. Even in the McLibel case he was in the background.
    No I wouldn't. But neither was Attlee...who beat Boris's hero and role model, probably our most charismatic PM of all time. I think a little bit of precision whilst Boris floats off onto his latest fantasy could be quite effective and Labour have no one who even gets close on charisma.

    Good point. Attlee did have a powerful, experienced and competent team around him though.
    Well - powerful and experienced. Not all of them were competent. Shinwell infamously could not have run a piss up in a brewery. Dalton was little better.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer is intelligent, articulate, doesn't foam at the mouth and can carry a coherent argument for more than 5 minutes. What on earth makes anyone think he has a chance?

    You wouldn't call him charismatic though, would you.
    Maybe of course he hasn't had the chance to prove it, but he doesn't seem to have sought jobs where he might have to show any. Even in the McLibel case he was in the background.
    No I wouldn't. But neither was Attlee...who beat Boris's hero and role model, probably our most charismatic PM of all time. I think a little bit of precision whilst Boris floats off onto his latest fantasy could be quite effective and Labour have no one who even gets close on charisma.

    Good point. Attlee did have a powerful, experienced and competent team around him though.
    Not even Boris has that, let alone the next Labour party leader. Our politics is in a poor place.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    IanB2 said:

    What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    It’s the “Everyone is a winner, snowflake sports day” effect.


    No, it’s the perfectly reasonable view - adopted by most of the world - that the object of an election is to ensure that as many people are represented as possible.

    Our system is designed to make more than half the voters feel like losers. And we wonder why our politics is in trouble.
    "Our system is designed to make more than half the voters feel like losers."

    Yes, 52% of us felt like that for 3 1/2 years!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,385
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    Not sure that they get this democracy thing but they are in line with current educational "thinking" (I use the word loosely) in that all must win prizes.
    33.9% of the French electorate are unrepresented by the President of the Republic.
    And that's amongst those who bothered to vote!
    That was the vote for the FN.....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    It’s the “Everyone is a winner, snowflake sports day” effect.


    No, it’s the perfectly reasonable view - adopted by most of the world - that the object of an election is to ensure that as many people are represented as possible.

    Our system is designed to make more than half the voters feel like losers. And we wonder why our politics is in trouble.
    Surely they should just vote Tory then?
    In your humour you cast light upon the problem.
    Pure happenstance, I assure you.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    edited December 2019

    lolandol said:

    Incidentally, anyone know the correct share of the vote for last week? Wiki figures look wrong when you look at Con and Lab votes compared to total votes, both higher than they state.
    Thanks.

    Are you comparing UK or GB shares? Both are on the wiki page for polling for the next GE.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    The GB shares are Con 44.7% Lab 32.9% LD 11.8%, 4.0% SNP, 2.8% Green, 2.1% BXP at a GB level.

    Opinium got their final poll spot on. 45% Con, 33% Lab, 12% LD





    53-47 to Remain parties. They should have gone for a 2nd referendum, not a GE
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    Not sure that they get this democracy thing but they are in line with current educational "thinking" (I use the word loosely) in that all must win prizes.
    33.9% of the French electorate are unrepresented by the President of the Republic.
    And that's amongst those who bothered to vote!
    That was the vote for the FN.....
    I know.
  • What a weird take....

    The Electoral Reform Society, which campaigns for a fairer voting system, has released figures saying 14.5m voters are effectively “unrepresented” because they voted for a candidate who did not win.

    As a PR fan I thought they were going to be misrepresented by your post but they are not! It is barmy.

    Their press release also specifically mentions LD under representation but doesnt mention the Brexit party who have it even worse.
    Apart from their bessies all over the Government benches.
    As much as I dislike the Brexit Party being a believer in PR involves sticking up for parties I disagree with when the system is unjust against them. 642,000 votes for zero MPs cant be right.
    Sure it can be. No area wants them representing them, that's fair. Just because you get a vote doesn't mean you win.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,385

    Peak Thornbery....

    Brexit with rollercoasters: the £3.5bn London Resort fantasy theme park

    With its rickety rides, fire-breathing dragons and Arthurian castle, the enchanted realms proposed for the Thames Estuary park are little Britain writ large.

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2019/dec/16/london-resort-theme-park-thames-estuary-brexit

    How dare a British theme park have a union jack....forget all the jobs it will create, it is a disgusting Gammon theme park.

    I like the fact that they forget to mention that it is privately funded.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    lolandol said:

    Incidentally, anyone know the correct share of the vote for last week? Wiki figures look wrong when you look at Con and Lab votes compared to total votes, both higher than they state.
    Thanks.

    Are you comparing UK or GB shares? Both are on the wiki page for polling for the next GE.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    The GB shares are Con 44.7% Lab 32.9% LD 11.8%, 4.0% SNP, 2.8% Green, 2.1% BXP at a GB level.

    Opinium got their final poll spot on. 45% Con, 33% Lab, 12% LD





    53-47 to Remain parties. They should have gone for a 2nd referendum, not a GE
    Filtering the result of a vote through another voting system is not all that helpful in my opinion. Some Cons would vote Remain, some Labour voters would vote Leave, some of the GE2019 electorate wouldn't vote in a referendum, some who didn't vote in GE2019 would, etc
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,472
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer is intelligent, articulate, doesn't foam at the mouth and can carry a coherent argument for more than 5 minutes. What on earth makes anyone think he has a chance?

    You wouldn't call him charismatic though, would you.
    Maybe of course he hasn't had the chance to prove it, but he doesn't seem to have sought jobs where he might have to show any. Even in the McLibel case he was in the background.
    No I wouldn't. But neither was Attlee...who beat Boris's hero and role model, probably our most charismatic PM of all time. I think a little bit of precision whilst Boris floats off onto his latest fantasy could be quite effective and Labour have no one who even gets close on charisma.

    Good point. Attlee did have a powerful, experienced and competent team around him though.
    Well - powerful and experienced. Not all of them were competent. Shinwell infamously could not have run a piss up in a brewery. Dalton was little better.
    Shinwell certainly messed up big time during the 1947 freeze. He could and should have done so much better.
  • lolandol said:

    Incidentally, anyone know the correct share of the vote for last week? Wiki figures look wrong when you look at Con and Lab votes compared to total votes, both higher than they state.
    Thanks.

    Are you comparing UK or GB shares? Both are on the wiki page for polling for the next GE.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    The GB shares are Con 44.7% Lab 32.9% LD 11.8%, 4.0% SNP, 2.8% Green, 2.1% BXP at a GB level.

    Opinium got their final poll spot on. 45% Con, 33% Lab, 12% LD





    53-47 to Remain parties. They should have gone for a 2nd referendum, not a GE
    As you well know you can't do that. There are people who still back Remain who voted Tory, and Labour were neither a Remain or Leave party, and plenty of voters who voted Leave will still have voted Labour.
This discussion has been closed.