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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The data’s clear: The Tories are retaining more of their GE201

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  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited December 2019
    It amuses me that Matt Hancock has been sent to the hospital. What’s he going to do? A four year old slept on some coats, presumably because it was more comfy than the chair. It happens. Our society, and in particular our media, are endlessly childish.

    There are lots of issues to discuss in the NHS. This isn’t one of them.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    edited December 2019

    stodge said:

    In one respect "Oh all the instruments agree". The pollsters are unanimous that Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats have tanked during the campaign.

    It wouldn't have made a scintilla of difference if Ed Davey had been leader or if the policy had been a second referendum rather than revoke.

    Jo Swinson has certainly had a baptism of fire and hopefully she will learn a lot from the experience - primarily to ignore or face down the misogynistic comments.

    I disagree actually. I was expecting her to be a bit poor but she has been abysmal. Interestingly I was at a large lunch party yesterday where I chatted to a number of different people, and inevitably the election came up since some of those I was talking to know that I 'invest' in the political betting markets. Even I was surprised at how negative the perceptions of Jo Swinson were - these are well-off mostly retired people in a Tory seat but mostly Remainers and potential or actual LibDem voters.

    You LibDems need to find to way to replace her after the election. She's a millstone round your neck.
    Is the Nabavi X now hovering grumpily towards the blue box?

    Edit: I see not.
  • stodge said:

    In one respect "Oh all the instruments agree". The pollsters are unanimous that Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats have tanked during the campaign.

    It wouldn't have made a scintilla of difference if Ed Davey had been leader or if the policy had been a second referendum rather than revoke.

    Jo Swinson has certainly had a baptism of fire and hopefully she will learn a lot from the experience - primarily to ignore or face down the misogynistic comments.

    I disagree actually. I was expecting her to be a bit poor but she has been abysmal. Interestingly I was at a large lunch party yesterday where I chatted to a number of different people, and inevitably the election came up since some of those I was talking to know that I 'invest' in the political betting markets. Even I was surprised at how negative the perceptions of Jo Swinson were - these are well-off mostly retired people in a Tory seat but mostly Remainers and potential or actual LibDem voters.

    You LibDems need to find to way to replace her after the election. She's a millstone round your neck.
    With hindsight an interesting strategy for them would be to almost have ignored Brexit. Say you know where we stand on that but we have much more to us than just Brexit. Talk mainly about the environment, education and a positive vision of Britains future in the world.
    yes, damned shame they didn't. Combined with main parties not fit to govern. Too many politicians are influenced by froth in the social media bubbles.
  • stodge said:

    Byronic said:

    Consider the chaos that will ensue, if it is a Hung Parliament.

    Another year of madness, another EU referendum (and then what??), probably a Scottish referendum, endless currency turmoil, investment collapse, property prices reeling, the works.

    FFS.

    That seems to be the final Conservative card on YouTube and other social media outlets. It's absurd because no one votes FOR a Hung Parliament - it's an accident of electoral arithmetic.

    It actually smacks of desperation and the truth is without a majority the Conservatives are the "Billy NoMates" of politics and if they are short of 323 by any amount they will be in serious trouble,
    Not as much trouble as the country as a whole. Whether you like it or note everything that Byronic lists there will come to pass if we have a hung Parliament., And a whole lot more shit as well.
    Whereas Brexit will go smoothly and without a hitch and we should ignore the apocalyptic warnings of the Labour Conservative government because Tories are habitual ... oh, hold on.
  • kle4 said:

    People do vote for a hung parliament. I did in 2010, it's just that as ever you are reliant on others to get your way.

    There is rarely anything else worth voting for!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291
    Did I see we're getting the final YouGov/Wales Only poll this afternoon?
  • sealo0sealo0 Posts: 48
    Mods

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    TIA
    Mike
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    stodge said:

    Don't bother arguing with Richard N - he's never liked Jo's hair or how she dresses. I don't suppose he's even heard a word she's said.

    Ah, and the hair. I've tested this theory. Ask any woman about it. You will find I was right. One lady was very surprised that I'd noticed or would care; of course I don't care personally - I'm voting LibDem anyway - but I do care in the sense that I think the fact that Ms Swinson looks so unprofessional is influencing voters, mostly without them even being aware of it.

    Even Corbyn, FFS, managed to smarten himself up when his minders nagged him to do so.
    The Gogglebox critique was that she looks like the kind of person that would come over to you when you are standing at the bar at a party and demand that you dance
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited December 2019
    Thinking aloud; I'm wondering whether the existence of the Yougov MRP, and the belief in it, will inevitably mean that it won't turn out to be correct.

    Take Leigh. It's somewhere no one would really expect there to be a Tory pickup this election. They could have taken it had Labour's resources been diverted elsewhere, but Labour have had plenty of time to claw things back.

    It may be the case the MRP has ensured fewer seats actually flip this election than normal.
  • wills66wills66 Posts: 103
    stodge said:


    Don't bother arguing with Richard N - he's never liked Jo's hair or how she dresses. I don't suppose he's even heard a word she's said.

    I would have thought that never hearing a word she says could only improve one's opinion of Jo Swinson? Or at least that seems to be the common "the more they hear, the less they like" opinion.

    And as for how she dresses, I do wonder what the effect on the LDs poll status would have been if she showed a bit of cleavage. Yes, joke, honest!

    WillS

  • Utterly OT, but if anyone backed my Leicester to win without Liverpool/Manchester City bet at 9.5 (Ladbrokes) you could choose to cash that out now. Personally, I'd hold onto it.

    I've hedged on Betfair, so green either way.
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    edited December 2019
    stodge said:

    Byronic said:

    Consider the chaos that will ensue, if it is a Hung Parliament.

    Another year of madness, another EU referendum (and then what??), probably a Scottish referendum, endless currency turmoil, investment collapse, property prices reeling, the works.

    FFS.

    That seems to be the final Conservative card on YouTube and other social media outlets. It's absurd because no one votes FOR a Hung Parliament - it's an accident of electoral arithmetic.

    It actually smacks of desperation and the truth is without a majority the Conservatives are the "Billy NoMates" of politics and if they are short of 323 by any amount they will be in serious trouble,
    I have to disagree. The DUP will be eminently bribeable once more once they are reelected. People make the mistake of seeing NI parties (exc Alliance) as conventional political parties when a better analogy is with the Kray and Richardson gangs of the 60s.
  • camel said:

    eek said:

    MikeL said:

    Per BBC:

    "Back to Boris Johnson and his questions. He's asked about the future of the BBC licence fee and surprises those listening saying he believes the whole idea of funding the BBC through a licence fee should be looked at.

    "It is effectively a tax," he says."

    So he says looked at. Nothing definitive.

    If he wins, let's hope this is the leverage to force BBC to pay for all Over 75s.

    Let's hope it's a means of shifting the BBC to a proper subscription model as forcing the BBC to pay for the Over 75s was a cheap tax trick by Osbourne and should have been called out at the time for what it was.

    A hypothecated 0.6% increase in income tax base rate would be fairer. The licence fee is both regressive and easily evaded.
    Haven’t watched the BBC for years. Why on Earth should I pay for it?

  • stodge said:

    In one respect "Oh all the instruments agree". The pollsters are unanimous that Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats have tanked during the campaign.

    It wouldn't have made a scintilla of difference if Ed Davey had been leader or if the policy had been a second referendum rather than revoke.

    Jo Swinson has certainly had a baptism of fire and hopefully she will learn a lot from the experience - primarily to ignore or face down the misogynistic comments.

    I disagree actually. I was expecting her to be a bit poor but she has been abysmal. Interestingly I was at a large lunch party yesterday where I chatted to a number of different people, and inevitably the election came up since some of those I was talking to know that I 'invest' in the political betting markets. Even I was surprised at how negative the perceptions of Jo Swinson were - these are well-off mostly retired people in a Tory seat but mostly Remainers and potential or actual LibDem voters.

    You LibDems need to find to way to replace her after the election. She's a millstone round your neck.
    With hindsight an interesting strategy for them would be to almost have ignored Brexit. Say you know where we stand on that but we have much more to us than just Brexit. Talk mainly about the environment, education and a positive vision of Britains future in the world.
    yes, damned shame they didn't. Combined with main parties not fit to govern. Too many politicians are influenced by froth in the social media bubbles.
    I think that approach would have made a big difference in the south west where I expect they will do badly to historic comparisons. There arent enough realistic target seats in remania to make up for it, although they will generate a lot more winnable seats for the following election there.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    sealo0 said:

    Mods

    O/t

    Why can I not get comments under each header on an Ipad no problem a Win10 PC

    Ipad won't let me login either again no problem on the PC

    TIA
    Mike

    Have you tried connecting via Vanilla?

    https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/
  • stodge said:

    Byronic said:

    Consider the chaos that will ensue, if it is a Hung Parliament.

    Another year of madness, another EU referendum (and then what??), probably a Scottish referendum, endless currency turmoil, investment collapse, property prices reeling, the works.

    FFS.

    That seems to be the final Conservative card on YouTube and other social media outlets. It's absurd because no one votes FOR a Hung Parliament - it's an accident of electoral arithmetic.

    It actually smacks of desperation and the truth is without a majority the Conservatives are the "Billy NoMates" of politics and if they are short of 323 by any amount they will be in serious trouble,
    Not as much trouble as the country as a whole. Whether you like it or note everything that Byronic lists there will come to pass if we have a hung Parliament., And a whole lot more shit as well.
    Whereas Brexit will go smoothly and without a hitch and we should ignore the apocalyptic warnings of the Labour Conservative government because Tories are habitual ... oh, hold on.
    If I had said that you would have had a point. But I didn't so you are spouting garbage yet again.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Did I see we're getting the final YouGov/Wales Only poll this afternoon?

    5pm apparently
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019

    It amuses me that Matt Hancock has been sent to the hospital. What’s he going to do? A four year old slept on some coats, presumably because it was more comfy than the chair. It happens. Our society, and in particular our media, are endlessly childish.

    There are lots of issues to discuss in the NHS. This isn’t one of them.

    Apart from usual anguish at being forced to remember that Hancock exists, my first was "oh, finally he can get the help he needs".
  • wills66wills66 Posts: 103

    Thinking aloud; I'm wondering whether the existence of the Yougov MRP, and the belief in it, will inevitably mean that it won't turn out to be correct.

    I'm not sure that belief in something will have an impact on its accuracy. But have we ever had a situation where the gold standard polling company/method has held onto that status at the subsequent election?

    I want to believe MRP (at least YouGov's last one) but I'm suspicious of my own motivations.

    WillS
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    Nobidexx said:

    eek said:

    speedy2 said:

    I usually don't post tweets, but this one caught my eye because it also caught my eye on the EU referendum, the people who are too poor to usually vote did vote in the EU referendum and for Leave:

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1204050910772633602

    If Boris gets those people out he will definitely have won...
    In canvassing / leafletting a very small area ( less than 50 voters ) this afternoon we ID'd a family of four in this category who were coming out for James Airey - get Brexit done
    Does it feel like Westmorland could go Tory this time? It's almost split 50/50 on Brexit and was very close last time, with MRP also predicting a close result.
    I would take anything from AVFC with a very large pinch of salt. He seems to operate the local Tory cheerleading squad.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    GIN1138 said:

    Did I see we're getting the final YouGov/Wales Only poll this afternoon?

    5pm?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291

    GIN1138 said:

    Did I see we're getting the final YouGov/Wales Only poll this afternoon?

    5pm apparently
    Ta.

    Will there be a shock waiting in the Valleys? :D
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602
    edited December 2019

    stodge said:

    In one respect "Oh all the instruments agree". The pollsters are unanimous that Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats have tanked during the campaign.

    It wouldn't have made a scintilla of difference if Ed Davey had been leader or if the policy had been a second referendum rather than revoke.

    Jo Swinson has certainly had a baptism of fire and hopefully she will learn a lot from the experience - primarily to ignore or face down the misogynistic comments.

    I disagree actually. I was expecting her to be a bit poor but she has been abysmal. Interestingly I was at a large lunch party yesterday where I chatted to a number of different people, and inevitably the election came up since some of those I was talking to know that I 'invest' in the political betting markets. Even I was surprised at how negative the perceptions of Jo Swinson were - these are well-off mostly retired people in a Tory seat but mostly Remainers and potential or actual LibDem voters.

    You LibDems need to find to way to replace her after the election. She's a millstone round your neck.
    Her advisers must be useless. Not just slightly useless, totally useless.
  • sealo0 said:

    Mods

    O/t

    Why can I not get comments under each header on an Ipad no problem a Win10 PC

    Ipad won't let me login either again no problem on the PC

    TIA
    Mike

    Me too. Same problem. Same tech.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    wills66 said:

    Thinking aloud; I'm wondering whether the existence of the Yougov MRP, and the belief in it, will inevitably mean that it won't turn out to be correct.

    I'm not sure that belief in something will have an impact on its accuracy. But have we ever had a situation where the gold standard polling company/method has held onto that status at the subsequent election?

    I want to believe MRP (at least YouGov's last one) but I'm suspicious of my own motivations.

    WillS
    The whole 'Gold Standard' meme is just trolling isn't it? Most serious gamblers disregard the last result rather than give too much weight to it
  • Polling Day weather:

    Arbroath +6 rain
    Armagh +5 rain
    St Davids +11 rain
    Winchester +9 rain
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    GIN1138 said:

    One thing at this point in 2017 Survation had the result pretty much spot on

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2017_United_Kingdom_general_election

    And they also got the 2015 election spot on too (although sadly Damian didn't have enough belief in his poll to publish it)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Past glory's are no guarantee of future success but they are certainly the pollsters to beat for the rest of the competition.

    They have pinned their Colours to the Tory Landslide mast.

    I think their reputation as most accurate pollster is going down the pan.

    IMO the current lead prior to Boris being a bastard with the 4 yr olds photo was 9-10

    After the photo i think the lead will be 9-10
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698

    stodge said:

    Don't bother arguing with Richard N - he's never liked Jo's hair or how she dresses. I don't suppose he's even heard a word she's said.

    Ah, and the hair. I've tested this theory. Ask any woman about it. You will find I was right. One lady was very surprised that I'd noticed or would care; of course I don't care personally - I'm voting LibDem anyway - but I do care in the sense that I think the fact that Ms Swinson looks so unprofessional is influencing voters, mostly without them even being aware of it.

    Even Corbyn, FFS, managed to smarten himself up when his minders nagged him to do so.
    That must be the most stupid comment I have heard in a long time. By all means dislike her, but do not suggest her hair and clothes make her unprofessional when she is up against Johnson and Corbyn, both of whom would be put to shame by a scarecrow.
  • Con go FAV in Ynys Môn:

    Con 7/4
    PC 15/8
    Lab 9/4
  • sealo0 said:

    Mods

    O/t

    Why can I not get comments under each header on an Ipad no problem a Win10 PC

    Ipad won't let me login either again no problem on the PC

    TIA
    Mike

    Me too. Same problem. Same tech.
    Just checked and pb on chrome on ipad works for me. Did not test logging in.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,045
    Andy_JS said:

    speedy2 said:

    Byronic said:
    It's a poll prediction of political scientists, not of the wider public, political scientists are not a representative sample and can be profesionally biased.

    Which reminds me of this silly prediction in 1995 by Sir Ivor Crewe, the President of the Academy of Social Science, that essentially John Major would beat Tony Blair in 1997.
    Here he is at around 1:30:00
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etFPKNth-Xk

    It was obvious by anyone at the time that Major was a cooked goose, but not by Sir Ivor.
    Whatever happened to Ivor Crewe? He was one of the main TV election experts for many years and he's not that old, about the same age as Jeremy Corbyn I think.
    He is now Sir Ivor Crewe (knighted in 2006) and has been master of University College, Oxford for a number of years.
  • Todays ICM in Electoral Calculus produces

    CON 320
    LAB 252
    LD 15
    SNP 41
    PC 3
    GRN 1

    NOM available at 5.1 on Betfair

    That result would make the whole election a thoroughly depressing waste of time for all parties. There's nothing for anyone in that outcome.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602
    Someone on Twitter (an impeccable recommendation, I know) says the Wales poll will be out at 5pm.
  • LD shortening in Yeovil:

    Con 1/6
    LD 5/1
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    Todays ICM in Electoral Calculus produces

    CON 320
    LAB 252
    LD 15
    SNP 41
    PC 3
    GRN 1

    NOM available at 5.1 on Betfair

    That result would make the whole election a thoroughly depressing waste of time for all parties. There's nothing for anyone in that outcome.
    Except Arlene...
  • Guido

    Tories have writter to @ElectoralCommUK to complain about US Democratic Socialists of America providing phone banking assistance - an ofference under Section 50 of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000
  • alb1on said:

    stodge said:

    Don't bother arguing with Richard N - he's never liked Jo's hair or how she dresses. I don't suppose he's even heard a word she's said.

    Ah, and the hair. I've tested this theory. Ask any woman about it. You will find I was right. One lady was very surprised that I'd noticed or would care; of course I don't care personally - I'm voting LibDem anyway - but I do care in the sense that I think the fact that Ms Swinson looks so unprofessional is influencing voters, mostly without them even being aware of it.

    Even Corbyn, FFS, managed to smarten himself up when his minders nagged him to do so.
    That must be the most stupid comment I have heard in a long time. By all means dislike her, but do not suggest her hair and clothes make her unprofessional when she is up against Johnson and Corbyn, both of whom would be put to shame by a scarecrow.
    There's absolutely nothing wrong with her hair or her appearance. She is useless at her job, but that is entirely unrelated.
  • Nobidexx said:

    eek said:

    speedy2 said:

    I usually don't post tweets, but this one caught my eye because it also caught my eye on the EU referendum, the people who are too poor to usually vote did vote in the EU referendum and for Leave:

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1204050910772633602

    If Boris gets those people out he will definitely have won...
    In canvassing / leafletting a very small area ( less than 50 voters ) this afternoon we ID'd a family of four in this category who were coming out for James Airey - get Brexit done
    Does it feel like Westmorland could go Tory this time? It's almost split 50/50 on Brexit and was very close last time, with MRP also predicting a close result.
    It will of course depend on what happens nationally but if the Tories make more than 15 gains it will be among them.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291

    Con go FAV in Ynys Môn:

    Con 7/4
    PC 15/8
    Lab 9/4

    You[what]Gov? ;)
  • SNP drifting in Moray:

    Con 17/20
    SNP 5/4
  • Laura Kunnesberg

    So Matt Hancock was despatched to Leeds Hospital, to try to sort out mess, hearing Labour activists scrambled to go + protest, and it turned nasty when they arrived - one of them punched Hancock's adviser
  • GIN1138 said:

    One thing at this point in 2017 Survation had the result pretty much spot on

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2017_United_Kingdom_general_election

    And they also got the 2015 election spot on too (although sadly Damian didn't have enough belief in his poll to publish it)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Past glory's are no guarantee of future success but they are certainly the pollsters to beat for the rest of the competition.

    They have pinned their Colours to the Tory Landslide mast.

    I think their reputation as most accurate pollster is going down the pan.

    IMO the current lead prior to Boris being a bastard with the 4 yr olds photo was 9-10

    After the photo i think the lead will be 9-10
    Can this mobile photo In pocket gaff change many votes at this late hour ? Is it on the scale of Gordon Browns bigoted old woman Gaff in 2010?
  • sealo0 said:

    Mods

    O/t

    Why can I not get comments under each header on an Ipad no problem a Win10 PC

    Ipad won't let me login either again no problem on the PC

    TIA
    Mike

    Mods

    I've not been able to get comments under the header for the last 2 months, can only get it via Vanilla Community site instead.
  • LD drifting in Montgomeryshire:

    Con 1/6
    LD 4/1
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Byronic said:

    kjohnw1 said:

    Does the feedback from politicians, journos and canvassers feel like a 6 point gap with Labour at Blair 05 levels?

    https://twitter.com/paulbranditv/status/1203996698248466433
    Pretty sure we had stuff like this last time...
    Yep
    But what we had in 2017, and don't have this time, was breathless, upbeat and excited reports from Labour activists, revealing the Corbyn Surge (which was matched by his dizzying ascent in the leader polls). Plus those huge rallies, Oh Jerremmy Corrrbynnn etc etc etc

    None of that applies now. Instead Labour canvassers are nearly all gloomy, suspicious, puzzled.

    It is just anecdata, but it IS anecdata.

    Yeah, that's my memory of 2017 and its completely notable by its absence.
    https://twitter.com/Corbynator2_0/status/1204041106343763975
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited December 2019

    They have pinned their Colours to the Tory Landslide mast.

    I think their reputation as most accurate pollster is going down the pan.


    They really haven't! 3% MoE vs ICM's 2%....

    Sur Con 42-48, Lab 28-34
    ICM Con 40-44, Lab 34-38

    Doesn't contradict the overall picture of a 10% gap.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    GIN1138 said:

    Con go FAV in Ynys Môn:

    Con 7/4
    PC 15/8
    Lab 9/4

    You[what]Gov? ;)
    Yes I fancy it in Ynys Mon. That might change at 5pm.

    Who's on CON for Ogmore?!

  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Andy_JS said:

    Hung parliament = general election in 2020, most likely.

    What odds no deal in Jan 31 with a hung parliament?

    Shame there is no market for this on betfair as I wouldnt mind hedging some no deal risk. This is the first time I think the market would be underestimating the chance of no deal rather than significantly overestimating.
    It depends what kind of hung parliament, but it seems a bit unlikely, given that there appeared to be a majority for Johnson's deal in the old Commons, and a fair number of the odds, ends and nominal Lib Dems opposed to it won't be re-elected. Though I suppose the same may be true of the Labour rebels who supported it. Does anyone know the numbers?
  • sealo0 said:

    Mods

    O/t

    Why can I not get comments under each header on an Ipad no problem a Win10 PC

    Ipad won't let me login either again no problem on the PC

    TIA
    Mike

    Mods

    I've not been able to get comments under the header for the last 2 months, can only get it via Vanilla Community site instead.
    I have had major problems with vanilla comments for past few months . Had to set up new account in the end .
  • wills66wills66 Posts: 103
    isam said:


    The whole 'Gold Standard' meme is just trolling isn't it? Most serious gamblers disregard the last result rather than give too much weight to it

    Really? I always take form into account when placing sporting bets.

    Of course I also rarely come out ahead except by accident :-)

    WillS.

  • Lab shortening in Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath:

    Lab 8/13
    SNP 6/4
    Con 14/1
  • alb1on said:

    stodge said:

    Don't bother arguing with Richard N - he's never liked Jo's hair or how she dresses. I don't suppose he's even heard a word she's said.

    Ah, and the hair. I've tested this theory. Ask any woman about it. You will find I was right. One lady was very surprised that I'd noticed or would care; of course I don't care personally - I'm voting LibDem anyway - but I do care in the sense that I think the fact that Ms Swinson looks so unprofessional is influencing voters, mostly without them even being aware of it.

    Even Corbyn, FFS, managed to smarten himself up when his minders nagged him to do so.
    That must be the most stupid comment I have heard in a long time. By all means dislike her, but do not suggest her hair and clothes make her unprofessional when she is up against Johnson and Corbyn, both of whom would be put to shame by a scarecrow.
    Very good point!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602

    Byronic said:

    kjohnw1 said:

    Does the feedback from politicians, journos and canvassers feel like a 6 point gap with Labour at Blair 05 levels?

    https://twitter.com/paulbranditv/status/1203996698248466433
    Pretty sure we had stuff like this last time...
    Yep
    But what we had in 2017, and don't have this time, was breathless, upbeat and excited reports from Labour activists, revealing the Corbyn Surge (which was matched by his dizzying ascent in the leader polls). Plus those huge rallies, Oh Jerremmy Corrrbynnn etc etc etc

    None of that applies now. Instead Labour canvassers are nearly all gloomy, suspicious, puzzled.

    It is just anecdata, but it IS anecdata.

    Yeah, that's my memory of 2017 and its completely notable by its absence.
    https://twitter.com/Corbynator2_0/status/1204041106343763975
    138,126 people voted Labour in Bristol in 2017.
  • Lab shortening in Glasgow North East:

    SNP 1/4
    Lab 3/1
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    kjohnw1 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    One thing at this point in 2017 Survation had the result pretty much spot on

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2017_United_Kingdom_general_election

    And they also got the 2015 election spot on too (although sadly Damian didn't have enough belief in his poll to publish it)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Past glory's are no guarantee of future success but they are certainly the pollsters to beat for the rest of the competition.

    They have pinned their Colours to the Tory Landslide mast.

    I think their reputation as most accurate pollster is going down the pan.

    IMO the current lead prior to Boris being a bastard with the 4 yr olds photo was 9-10

    After the photo i think the lead will be 9-10
    Can this mobile photo In pocket gaff change many votes at this late hour ? Is it on the scale of Gordon Browns bigoted old woman Gaff in 2010?
    Brown's gaff was his apology. If he had said "did you listen to her - what she said was bigoted' he would have got credit for it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602

    Laura Kunnesberg

    So Matt Hancock was despatched to Leeds Hospital, to try to sort out mess, hearing Labour activists scrambled to go + protest, and it turned nasty when they arrived - one of them punched Hancock's adviser

    Punched? Bloody hell.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    Laura Kunnesberg

    So Matt Hancock was despatched to Leeds Hospital, to try to sort out mess, hearing Labour activists scrambled to go + protest, and it turned nasty when they arrived - one of them punched Hancock's adviser

    News story is now LAB thuggery

    Vote CON Thur or we will have LAB/SNP Stalinist regime!

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    sealo0 said:

    Mods

    O/t

    Why can I not get comments under each header on an Ipad no problem a Win10 PC

    Ipad won't let me login either again no problem on the PC

    TIA
    Mike

    Mods

    I've not been able to get comments under the header for the last 2 months, can only get it via Vanilla Community site instead.
    I’ve not been able to get a first for months because of it. :(
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2019
    wills66 said:

    isam said:


    The whole 'Gold Standard' meme is just trolling isn't it? Most serious gamblers disregard the last result rather than give too much weight to it

    Really? I always take form into account when placing sporting bets.

    Of course I also rarely come out ahead except by accident :-)

    WillS.

    Yeah you have to look at the form, but the betting markets often put too much emphasis on it, as that is where the casual punter's money goes. Often it is wise to overlook a bad performance last time out

    Swim against the tide, in short!
  • Con drifting in East Lothian:

    SNP 4/6
    Lab 3/1
    Con 7/2
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    The stunt pulled by that so-called ITV journalist was pretty low IMO, but I expected something like this to happen in the days running up to the election. It's a classic tabloid style sting. Saying that, Boris could have handled it a lot better, but he appeared to panic a little bit. I'm sorry for the young lad who is being used as a political tool to gain points. It smacks of complete desperation IMO.
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684
    wills66 said:

    stodge said:


    Don't bother arguing with Richard N - he's never liked Jo's hair or how she dresses. I don't suppose he's even heard a word she's said.

    I would have thought that never hearing a word she says could only improve one's opinion of Jo Swinson? Or at least that seems to be the common "the more they hear, the less they like" opinion.

    And as for how she dresses, I do wonder what the effect on the LDs poll status would have been if she showed a bit of cleavage. Yes, joke, honest!

    WillS

    JFC.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Ave_it said:

    Laura Kunnesberg

    So Matt Hancock was despatched to Leeds Hospital, to try to sort out mess, hearing Labour activists scrambled to go + protest, and it turned nasty when they arrived - one of them punched Hancock's adviser

    News story is now LAB thuggery

    Vote CON Thur or we will have LAB/SNP Stalinist regime!

    72 hour to save the NHS (secretary’s adviser).
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    kjohnw1 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    One thing at this point in 2017 Survation had the result pretty much spot on

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2017_United_Kingdom_general_election

    And they also got the 2015 election spot on too (although sadly Damian didn't have enough belief in his poll to publish it)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Past glory's are no guarantee of future success but they are certainly the pollsters to beat for the rest of the competition.

    They have pinned their Colours to the Tory Landslide mast.

    I think their reputation as most accurate pollster is going down the pan.

    IMO the current lead prior to Boris being a bastard with the 4 yr olds photo was 9-10

    After the photo i think the lead will be 9-10
    Can this mobile photo In pocket gaff change many votes at this late hour ? Is it on the scale of Gordon Browns bigoted old woman Gaff in 2010?
    Brown's gaff was his apology. If he had said "did you listen to her - what she said was bigoted' he would have got credit for it.
    Flockin' Ell!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    stodge said:

    In one respect "Oh all the instruments agree". The pollsters are unanimous that Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats have tanked during the campaign.

    It wouldn't have made a scintilla of difference if Ed Davey had been leader or if the policy had been a second referendum rather than revoke.

    Jo Swinson has certainly had a baptism of fire and hopefully she will learn a lot from the experience - primarily to ignore or face down the misogynistic comments.

    Revoke and Swinson have definitely been the main reasons why LDs going down faster than a 10 bob hooker
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited December 2019
    It’s not gone well....

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited December 2019
    If the adviser getting punched is on camera, you can forget the poor reaction by Boris, it will all be about the mob.
  • RobD said:

    sealo0 said:

    Mods

    O/t

    Why can I not get comments under each header on an Ipad no problem a Win10 PC

    Ipad won't let me login either again no problem on the PC

    TIA
    Mike

    Have you tried connecting via Vanilla?

    https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/
    I have the same problem at home, it's a bit of a bore if I'm honest.
  • If the adviser getting punched is on camera, you can forget the poor reaction by Boris.

    Events, dear boy etc.
  • Who is this Swinson everybody is talking about? Is she somebody important?
  • alb1on said:

    stodge said:

    Don't bother arguing with Richard N - he's never liked Jo's hair or how she dresses. I don't suppose he's even heard a word she's said.

    Ah, and the hair. I've tested this theory. Ask any woman about it. You will find I was right. One lady was very surprised that I'd noticed or would care; of course I don't care personally - I'm voting LibDem anyway - but I do care in the sense that I think the fact that Ms Swinson looks so unprofessional is influencing voters, mostly without them even being aware of it.

    Even Corbyn, FFS, managed to smarten himself up when his minders nagged him to do so.
    That must be the most stupid comment I have heard in a long time. By all means dislike her, but do not suggest her hair and clothes make her unprofessional when she is up against Johnson and Corbyn, both of whom would be put to shame by a scarecrow.
    Very good point!
    But wrong. Corbyn smartened himself up considerably after being told the opinion of the dowager Mrs Cameron. He now looks quite smart enough. Boris is a bit of special case, as always, but he dresses appropriately.
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185

    If the adviser getting punched is on camera, you can forget the poor reaction by Boris, it will all be about the mob.

    If this has happened, it will have been.
  • Jason said:

    The stunt pulled by that so-called ITV journalist was pretty low IMO, but I expected something like this to happen in the days running up to the election. It's a classic tabloid style sting. Saying that, Boris could have handled it a lot better, but he appeared to panic a little bit. I'm sorry for the young lad who is being used as a political tool to gain points. It smacks of complete desperation IMO.

    The kids parents. What are they playing at? Assume they are corbnistas
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited December 2019

    If the adviser getting punched is on camera, you can forget the poor reaction by Boris.

    Events, dear boy etc.
    It does also play into the narrative that the some of the cult are really nasty pieces of work e.g. their hounding of Jewish Labour MPs.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    I see the good people of Bish have repelled Bozo's attempt to visit the town.

    Doubt it will make much difference, mind.
  • So if it’s a HP, should Johnson resign?
  • Also condemn behaviour by Labour activist, despicable
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    Todays ICM in Electoral Calculus produces

    CON 320
    LAB 252
    LD 15
    SNP 41
    PC 3
    GRN 1

    NOM available at 5.1 on Betfair

    That result would make the whole election a thoroughly depressing waste of time for all parties. There's nothing for anyone in that outcome.
    Standing still secures Corbyns leadership, unhappy though it might be, so theres something in it for him.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602
    edited December 2019
    I wonder whether some people will defend this alleged punch as an understandable response to Johnson putting a reporter's phone in his (Johnson's) pocket.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291
    edited December 2019
    Andy_JS said:
    Takes me back to 2010 and a certain Mr Coaxall {formally of this Parish} appearing all over the news being led away by the Police. ;
  • Andy_JS said:
    Yep, this could blow up.

    Been a great day for the Corbynistas, eh? How to win friends and influence people by shouting at the working classes, then a fracas in an A & E.
  • Chris said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Hung parliament = general election in 2020, most likely.

    What odds no deal in Jan 31 with a hung parliament?

    Shame there is no market for this on betfair as I wouldnt mind hedging some no deal risk. This is the first time I think the market would be underestimating the chance of no deal rather than significantly overestimating.
    It depends what kind of hung parliament, but it seems a bit unlikely, given that there appeared to be a majority for Johnson's deal in the old Commons, and a fair number of the odds, ends and nominal Lib Dems opposed to it won't be re-elected. Though I suppose the same may be true of the Labour rebels who supported it. Does anyone know the numbers?
    In theory something between 315 and 321 seats might lead to it (i.e. not enough tory seats for an outright working majority, but enough with the DUP, basically just like last time), but there are still a few tory MPs opposed to no-deal and likewise a few labour MPs who were in favor of the deal who would likely not have lost their seat in such a scenario (Flint, Onn, Stringer...).

    I feel like this would probably lead to the deal being passed, unless the numbers are closer to 315 in which case there would probably be enough tory rebels to rebels to block no deal anyway. Either way I think no-deal is very unlikely.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited December 2019
    Betfair on the massive slide now....another bad poll incoming?
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Banterman said:

    Jason said:

    The stunt pulled by that so-called ITV journalist was pretty low IMO, but I expected something like this to happen in the days running up to the election. It's a classic tabloid style sting. Saying that, Boris could have handled it a lot better, but he appeared to panic a little bit. I'm sorry for the young lad who is being used as a political tool to gain points. It smacks of complete desperation IMO.

    The kids parents. What are they playing at? Assume they are corbnistas
    Well, he's being used, I think that's pretty obvious, don't you?
  • Gove in Chesterfield today after a Tory surge in their canvass returns according to their candidate there.I thought all Labour activists had been relocated from Chesterfield as it was considered safe for Labour?.Needs about a ten per cent swing.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Andy_JS said:

    Byronic said:

    kjohnw1 said:

    Does the feedback from politicians, journos and canvassers feel like a 6 point gap with Labour at Blair 05 levels?

    https://twitter.com/paulbranditv/status/1203996698248466433
    Pretty sure we had stuff like this last time...
    Yep
    But what we had in 2017, and don't have this time, was breathless, upbeat and excited reports from Labour activists, revealing the Corbyn Surge (which was matched by his dizzying ascent in the leader polls). Plus those huge rallies, Oh Jerremmy Corrrbynnn etc etc etc

    None of that applies now. Instead Labour canvassers are nearly all gloomy, suspicious, puzzled.

    It is just anecdata, but it IS anecdata.

    Yeah, that's my memory of 2017 and its completely notable by its absence.
    https://twitter.com/Corbynator2_0/status/1204041106343763975
    138,126 people voted Labour in Bristol in 2017.
    How many voted Tory how many would turn up to see Jester??
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    Who is this Swinson everybody is talking about? Is she somebody important?

    Tilda Swinson. Does acting stuff.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited December 2019

    Andy_JS said:

    Byronic said:

    kjohnw1 said:

    Does the feedback from politicians, journos and canvassers feel like a 6 point gap with Labour at Blair 05 levels?

    https://twitter.com/paulbranditv/status/1203996698248466433
    Pretty sure we had stuff like this last time...
    Yep
    But what we had in 2017, and don't have this time, was breathless, upbeat and excited reports from Labour activists, revealing the Corbyn Surge (which was matched by his dizzying ascent in the leader polls). Plus those huge rallies, Oh Jerremmy Corrrbynnn etc etc etc

    None of that applies now. Instead Labour canvassers are nearly all gloomy, suspicious, puzzled.

    It is just anecdata, but it IS anecdata.

    Yeah, that's my memory of 2017 and its completely notable by its absence.
    https://twitter.com/Corbynator2_0/status/1204041106343763975
    138,126 people voted Labour in Bristol in 2017.
    How many voted Tory how many would turn up to see Jester??
    Its the quiet majority every politician has to worry about e.g. Cameron and Brexit.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Banterman said:

    Jason said:

    The stunt pulled by that so-called ITV journalist was pretty low IMO, but I expected something like this to happen in the days running up to the election. It's a classic tabloid style sting. Saying that, Boris could have handled it a lot better, but he appeared to panic a little bit. I'm sorry for the young lad who is being used as a political tool to gain points. It smacks of complete desperation IMO.

    The kids parents. What are they playing at? Assume they are corbnistas
    Yeah, that's right - the hospital would have found their son a bed if they had been card-carrying Tories.
  • argyllrsargyllrs Posts: 155

    Betfair on the massive slide now....

    Welsh Poll inside knowledge?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602

    Gove in Chesterfield today after a Tory surge in their canvass returns according to their candidate there.I thought all Labour activists had been relocated from Chesterfield as it was considered safe for Labour?.Needs about a ten per cent swing.

    YouGov MRP, Chesterfield:

    Lab 42%
    Con 36%
    LD 8%
    BRX 9%
    Grn 3%
    Oth 2%

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ry90s0oDXu6_LhDKNiI6fXaSFJsfMBaAXI6cZ8XhqQ8/edit#gid=0
  • wills66 said:

    In one respect "Oh all the instruments agree". The pollsters are unanimous that Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats have tanked during the campaign.

    Actually no, depending on your definition of "tanked". All the pollsters show the LD vote share declining but those pollsters showing the smaller Tory leads show that decline as being in the 2-3% range.

    I wouldn't define 2-3% as "tanked".

    WillS.
    Interesting phrasing. All the pollsters show it falling, but if you choose to only look at those its fallen the least and then ignore the fall that shows then the Lib Dems have lost less and you wouldn't view that as tanking? Strange cherrypicking.

    In September the Lib Dems were consistently polling around 20% ± 2%. They're now consistently around 13% ± 2%. They've lost about 35% of the people who were intending to vote for them - I'd call that tanking.
  • Well and there was me thinking that the GE had gone all a bit limp and the last 3 days were just people phoning it in.

    Instead a tight poll and now phone-gate / lamping a minsters adviser.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Betfair on the massive slide now....another bad poll incoming?

    Thought rather strange. At 1.3, this would have been my expected reaction to the earlier ICM poll but instead it waited a bit.

    Be really surprised if Wales poll is bad for Tories.
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698

    LD drifting in Montgomeryshire:

    Con 1/6
    LD 4/1

    Part of the pattern of LDs drifting in leave areas and shortening in remain (esp home counties) seats. They have shortened today in Guildford
    Ave_it said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Con go FAV in Ynys Môn:

    Con 7/4
    PC 15/8
    Lab 9/4

    You[what]Gov? ;)
    Yes I fancy it in Ynys Mon. That might change at 5pm.

    Who's on CON for Ogmore?!

    The PC price looks much better in Ynys Mon. The Tories should have been well placed in this seat, but the sheer stupidity of putting a convicted criminal with no local connection forward as their candidate (Chris Davies) and then having to replace him is not a good look. That the Tories then compounded their error by selecting a replacement (Virginia Crosbie) who is London and Sussex based and had, apparently, never been near the constituency until selection - would defy belief and be met with cries of fix if another party parachuted in such a PPC.
    My money is firmly with PC for this seat.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    If the adviser getting punched is on camera, you can forget the poor reaction by Boris.

    Events, dear boy etc.
    It does also play into the narrative that the some of the cult are really nasty pieces of work e.g. their hounding of Jewish Labour MPs.
    Yet they are deluded enough to think they hold the high moral ground
  • Brom said:

    Betfair on the massive slide now....another bad poll incoming?

    Thought rather strange. At 1.3, this would have been my expected reaction to the earlier ICM poll but instead it waited a bit.

    Be really surprised if Wales poll is bad for Tories.
    Tonnes of money as well. Biggest day so far in terms of betting.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Nice to see 87035 feature on the BBC election reporting from Crewe.

    https://www.facebook.com/87035rb/

This discussion has been closed.