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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Chuka Umunna’s political journey: From 2015 favourite for the

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  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited December 2019

    nichomar said:

    nico67 said:


    Great to see @BorisJohnson giving an interview to @thismorning after repeatedly promising to do @GMB.
    I do love a man who keeps his word, especially when he wants us to trust him to run the country.
    Thanks Boris! 👍👏👏 https://t.co/3z4aAwJeiG

    Have you been drinking ?
    Boris is running scared of Piers Morgan (whose tweet it was) as well as Julie Etchingham and Andrew Neil.
    The point is he is doing plenty of media appearances

    It is only activists who are so exercised over Boris and AN
    He’s doing soft media interviews where he can be seen stroking kittens, he is not being allowed to do risky interviews where his real policies and views make headlines.
    He faces Corbyn tomorrow on BBC for the second time

    And I expect that will be that no matter how much wailing from activists and the media
    That just shows how little respect they have they have for other party leaders, they couldn’t be arsed turning up for the all leaders debates sending third rate stand ins and then claim they are doing democracy in a one on one. The should have done both but they are both too arrogant and up their own arse to recognize this.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:
    I have a hunch that Peter Hitchens is probably right about cannabis. The problem is that the "zeitgeit" says cannabis is okay and tobacco is not okay.
    He is right. It is truly amazing how wilfully blind people are on this subject. They can’t know many people that have done it if they think it’s a safe drug.
    Part of the purpose of legalization and regulation is specifically so you can monitor and control strength and stop drug dealers pushing users on to harder and harder stuff.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Great to see @BorisJohnson giving an interview to @thismorning after repeatedly promising to do @GMB.
    I do love a man who keeps his word, especially when he wants us to trust him to run the country.
    Thanks Boris! 👍👏👏 https://t.co/3z4aAwJeiG

    :D:D:D

    I nominate you for Private Eye's "Order of the Brown Nose". Considering your comments about Boris just a few months ago.....
    With respect it is water of a duck's back.

    I will do anything to keep Corbyn out of power

    ..
  • HenriettaHenrietta Posts: 136
    edited December 2019

    isam said:
    Perhaps there might be something to see if any government became serious about breaking the link between super-strength, damaging marijuana and prohibition.
    Is that what Peter Hitchen is trying to say? By the sound of it Khuram Butt gave it up. It would be more surprising if he kept on taking it, given that intoxicants are banned in the Koran. I was more surprised by those such as the Nice attacker and at least one of the 911 attackers who were supposedly taking alcohol or drugs or both (can't remember the details) until shortly before they carried out their murderous attacks. There may well be an element of "I am bad; I deserve to die" in there along with "I want to be a martyr and go directly to paradise, avoiding the torment of the grave".
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    Cookie said:

    speedy2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    A question I think is interesting is how bad does the defeat need to be for Labour to ditch the Marxists? I don't want Johnson to be rewarded for what he has done to my ex-party and the country, but equally I don't want Mr. Thicky rewarded in any way for his part in the catastrophe. Would a Johnson majority of 10 be enough? Or do we have to endure a larger Tory majority for Labour to come to its senses and elect someone electable?

    A majority of 10 would leave the Marxists thinking "one more heave"
    Yes, the only way Corbyn resigns is if we get a 1983, or a reverse 1997 result.

    Even then, the membership could replace him with someone similar, on the basis that the problem was Corbyn personally - rather than everything he stands for.
    The bands of possibilities is as follows:

    Hung Parliament: Corbyn stays as long as he wants.
    Labour 35% or over, but Conservative majority: Corbyn stays for a couple of years.
    Labour at 32-35%: Corbyn leaves in 2021.
    Labour less than 32%: Corbyn steps down, leadership election during the Summer.
    Yes, agree with that. But in all four scenarios he is replaced by someone else from the far left. Lab really have to be well under 30% for that to change - and possibly not even then, such is the far left's grip on the party.
    I believe Corbyn's replacement would be a London Socialist with good relations with muslim tribal leaders.
    The reasons for that is that the majority of Labour members are Socialist Londoners and the majority of London members are muslims.

    Starmer wont get it, he is a Londoner but not a Socialist and muslims don't like him for his Blairite foreign policy.
    Khan wont get it, he is a muslim Londoner but not a Socialist.
    Thornberry might get it if Brexit is no longer an issue.
    Bailey and Pidcock wont get it because their are non-Londoners.
    McDonnell can get it, he like Corbyn checks all the boxes.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,113
    edited December 2019
    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    nico67 said:


    Great to see @BorisJohnson giving an interview to @thismorning after repeatedly promising to do @GMB.
    I do love a man who keeps his word, especially when he wants us to trust him to run the country.
    Thanks Boris! 👍👏👏 https://t.co/3z4aAwJeiG

    Have you been drinking ?
    Boris is running scared of Piers Morgan (whose tweet it was) as well as Julie Etchingham and Andrew Neil.
    The point is he is doing plenty of media appearances

    It is only activists who are so exercised over Boris and AN
    He’s doing soft media interviews where he can be seen stroking kittens, he is not being allowed to do risky interviews where his real policies and views make headlines.
    He faces Corbyn tomorrow on BBC for the second time

    And I expect that will be that no matter how much wailing from activists and the media
    That just shows how little respect they have they have for other party leaders, they couldn’t be arsed turning up for the all leaders debates sending third rate stand ins and then claim they are doing democracy in a one on one. The should have done both but they are both too arrogant and up their own arse to recognize this.
    Who are they.

    It is the BBC who arranged these debates

    If you have a problem take it up with the BBC
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited December 2019
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:
    I have a hunch that Peter Hitchens is probably right about cannabis. The problem is that the "zeitgeit" says cannabis is okay and tobacco is not okay.
    He is right. It is truly amazing how wilfully blind people are on this subject. They can’t know many people that have done it if they think it’s a safe drug.
    Cannabis is varying combinations of CBD (anti-psychotic) and THC (pro-psychotic). Over the years of prohibition and criminal boosterism, the THC proportion has gone through the roof, making much cannabis now most easily available on the street, in skunk and other forms, actually quite dangerous.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    BBC 6pm superb for the Tories:

    - Boris is increasing tax for business, but cutting them - albeit modestly - for workers.
    - Sturgeon doing her best to scare English and unionist voters.
    - Kuenssberg reiterating Tories on course for largest party but majority or not is very uncertain.
    - Scary Momentum-esque hooligans demonstrating outside Boris's speech.

    CCHQ couldn't have asked for better.

    In unrelated news, the Tories pledge to increase funding to the BBC. :D
  • I’ve got to say I find Cities of London & Westminster one of the more interesting seats this time round. If the Conservatives retain it, as currently looks likely, those voters who claim to esteem good governance who voted for them will deserve everything they get.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    Gabs3 said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:
    I have a hunch that Peter Hitchens is probably right about cannabis. The problem is that the "zeitgeit" says cannabis is okay and tobacco is not okay.
    He is right. It is truly amazing how wilfully blind people are on this subject. They can’t know many people that have done it if they think it’s a safe drug.
    Part of the purpose of legalization and regulation is specifically so you can monitor and control strength and stop drug dealers pushing users on to harder and harder stuff.
    Imagine if the only alcohol you could buy was bathtub gin. On a street corner. From someone who might get stabbed to death at any moment by someone who wanted to sell you his knocked off Special Brew.

    That is prohibition.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,837
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:
    I have a hunch that Peter Hitchens is probably right about cannabis. The problem is that the "zeitgeit" says cannabis is okay and tobacco is not okay.
    He is right. It is truly amazing how wilfully blind people are on this subject. They can’t know many people that have done it if they think it’s a safe drug.
    I think it's almost the oposite: they know lots of people who did itback when it was a much less scary drug. And haven't appreciated how things have changed.

    Having tried the odd joint in my younger days, I tried cannabis again in 2007. I have never been so utterly disorientated. I was fortunate that I had enough friends around me to prevent an seriously poor decisions being made. But I can easily see how very bad things can happen.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    nico67 said:


    Great to see @BorisJohnson giving an interview to @thismorning after repeatedly promising to do @GMB.
    I do love a man who keeps his word, especially when he wants us to trust him to run the country.
    Thanks Boris! 👍👏👏 https://t.co/3z4aAwJeiG

    Have you been drinking ?
    Boris is running scared of Piers Morgan (whose tweet it was) as well as Julie Etchingham and Andrew Neil.
    The point is he is doing plenty of media appearances

    It is only activists who are so exercised over Boris and AN
    He’s doing soft media interviews where he can be seen stroking kittens, he is not being allowed to do risky interviews where his real policies and views make headlines.
    He faces Corbyn tomorrow on BBC for the second time

    And I expect that will be that no matter how much wailing from activists and the media
    That just shows how little respect they have they have for other party leaders, they couldn’t be arsed turning up for the all leaders debates sending third rate stand ins and then claim they are doing democracy in a one on one. The should have done both but they are both too arrogant and up their own arse to recognize this.
    Who is they.

    It is the BBC who arranged both these debates

    If you have a problem take it up with the BBC
    No problem with tomorrow’s debate the problem was they felt themselves above the lesser mortals and sent turds to debate on their behalf at the LEADERS debates. Read the post
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Perhaps this election will turn out to be a complete unwind of the last 2 and a half years and the result will be the opinion position at the moment of 'crush the saboteurs'
  • Cookie said:

    speedy2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    A question I think is interesting is how bad does the defeat need to be for Labour to ditch the Marxists? I don't want Johnson to be rewarded for what he has done to my ex-party and the country, but equally I don't want Mr. Thicky rewarded in any way for his part in the catastrophe. Would a Johnson majority of 10 be enough? Or do we have to endure a larger Tory majority for Labour to come to its senses and elect someone electable?

    A majority of 10 would leave the Marxists thinking "one more heave"
    Yes, the only way Corbyn resigns is if we get a 1983, or a reverse 1997 result.

    Even then, the membership could replace him with someone similar, on the basis that the problem was Corbyn personally - rather than everything he stands for.
    The bands of possibilities is as follows:

    Hung Parliament: Corbyn stays as long as he wants.
    Labour 35% or over, but Conservative majority: Corbyn stays for a couple of years.
    Labour at 32-35%: Corbyn leaves in 2021.
    Labour less than 32%: Corbyn steps down, leadership election during the Summer.
    Yes, agree with that. But in all four scenarios he is replaced by someone else from the far left. Lab really have to be well under 30% for that to change - and possibly not even then, such is the far left's grip on the party.
    All the various options suggested presuppose that Corbyn actually wishes to remain as Labour leader, whereas I believe the opposite to be the case. Not only that, but I believe there are at least six so-called colleagues (mainly women) who are simply aching to get his job.
    On this basis, I expect him to announce his resignation as LOTO asap and for him to have gone by Easter, I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave the HoC entirely at the same time ... he is, after all, 70 years of age and probably not in the best of health.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602
    edited December 2019
    If we don't get some polls soon I'm going to start having withdrawal symptoms.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    Yes, I think Chuka could take it if he squeezes the Labour vote.

    If Swinson then loses in East Dunbartonshire he will then be ideally placed to be next LD leader having proved he can win Tory seats even during a night likely to produce a Tory majority
  • nico67 said:


    Great to see @BorisJohnson giving an interview to @thismorning after repeatedly promising to do @GMB.
    I do love a man who keeps his word, especially when he wants us to trust him to run the country.
    Thanks Boris! 👍👏👏 https://t.co/3z4aAwJeiG

    Have you been drinking ?
    Boris is running scared of Piers Morgan (whose tweet it was) as well as Julie Etchingham and Andrew Neil.
    The point is he is doing plenty of media appearances

    It is only activists who are so exercised over Boris and AN
    There's a difference between a stage managed event with soft questions from punters and a forensic TV interview as you well know, or at least used to before you started Stanning on Boris Johnson. Kim Jong-Un does media appearances, it doesn't make North Korea a healthy democracy.
    So what is tomorrows debate v Corbyn live on BBC

    By soft questions from punters I meant debating Corbyn.
    Sad to see you re-radicalised G.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Andy_JS said:

    If we don't get some polls soon I'm going to start having withdrawal symptoms.

    With a week to go we must be due at least one shock poll that give the Tories only a 2-3% lead...

    Oh what fun that will be, until the next 12%-er comes in :lol:
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:
    I have a hunch that Peter Hitchens is probably right about cannabis. The problem is that the "zeitgeit" says cannabis is okay and tobacco is not okay.
    He is right. It is truly amazing how wilfully blind people are on this subject. They can’t know many people that have done it if they think it’s a safe drug.
    I think it's almost the oposite: they know lots of people who did itback when it was a much less scary drug. And haven't appreciated how things have changed.

    Having tried the odd joint in my younger days, I tried cannabis again in 2007. I have never been so utterly disorientated. I was fortunate that I had enough friends around me to prevent an seriously poor decisions being made. But I can easily see how very bad things can happen.
    Connecting terrorism and cannabis use though is a bit odd. He probably did many entirely normal things. You wouldn't say 'Surprise! He ate chips!' would you.

    I doubt all terrorists use cannabis, and I'm damn sure all cannabis users are not terrorists. Almost all terrorists eat chips though....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    OJ, who was I think 13 when Blair became PM, has never lived as an adult under anything other than a centrist regime, would never as a matter of a priori ideology think that a Tory government could be good, would do well to reflect that a Labour party led from the centre would win this election at a canter, and that the extremists in this campaign are his socialist friends.

    I think it's rubbish that a centrist Labour would walk this election. This is Leave vs Remain through the prism of FPTP in a country where a landslide majority of seats are Leave seats. On top of that the Leave vote is consolidated far better than the Remain vote due to Johnson sidelining Farage. The election is timed and framed perfectly for the Cons. "Get Brexit Done" wins this regardless of the opposition.
    Agree with most of this. We risk looking back on Ed Miliband with rose-tinted glasses; but in 2015 we were talking about how poorly Metropolitan Labour played with small town England, and I suspect that would still be the case with an Ed Miliband now.

    But whe I know you've always predicted a Con majority of around 60, I just don't see it. Too many voters in places like Don Valley and Stoke will still vote Labour despite Jeremy. Most of those who will vote Con for Brexit in these seats had drifted away from Lab some time ago. It will be very, very tight.
    The Tories are winning over 70% of the Leave vote, up from 60% last time so will get an above average swing in Leave areas like Don Valley and Stoke where some Labour voters will also go Brexit Party
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981

    A question I think is interesting is how bad does the defeat need to be for Labour to ditch the Marxists? I don't want Johnson to be rewarded for what he has done to my ex-party and the country, but equally I don't want Mr. Thicky rewarded in any way for his part in the catastrophe. Would a Johnson majority of 10 be enough? Or do we have to endure a larger Tory majority for Labour to come to its senses and elect someone electable?

    A majority of 10 would leave the Marxists thinking "one more heave"
    My hunch is that a split to form SDP mark 2 is going to happen as I don't see Momentum and the rest being defeated inside the party. Lib Dems will have to merge as well. Could happen after some ghastly outcome at next election if Corbynism not drubbed at this one.
    They will name their party Change UK Alliance (CHUKA) with Chuka Umunna as their Leader and all of them will lose their seats in the next election, just like in this one.

    The SDP mark 2 already happened and was a predictably fantastic failure because there are no votes presently in the center, the LD getting 8-7% in the last 2 elections is an indicator of that.
  • nico67 said:


    Great to see @BorisJohnson giving an interview to @thismorning after repeatedly promising to do @GMB.
    I do love a man who keeps his word, especially when he wants us to trust him to run the country.
    Thanks Boris! 👍👏👏 https://t.co/3z4aAwJeiG

    Have you been drinking ?
    Boris is running scared of Piers Morgan (whose tweet it was) as well as Julie Etchingham and Andrew Neil.
    The point is he is doing plenty of media appearances

    It is only activists who are so exercised over Boris and AN
    There's a difference between a stage managed event with soft questions from punters and a forensic TV interview as you well know, or at least used to before you started Stanning on Boris Johnson. Kim Jong-Un does media appearances, it doesn't make North Korea a healthy democracy.
    So what is tomorrows debate v Corbyn live on BBC

    By soft questions from punters I meant debating Corbyn.
    Sad to see you re-radicalised G.
    I am not radicalised. I want Corbyn defeated and Boris is the only way

    But really I am completely relaxed about anything else
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Andy_JS said:

    If we don't get some polls soon I'm going to start having withdrawal symptoms.

    With a week to go we must be due at least one shock poll that give the Tories only a 2-3% lead...

    Oh what fun that will be, until the next 12%-er comes in :lol:
    The polling companies are drawing straws for who publishes it
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775

    I’ve got to say I find Cities of London & Westminster one of the more interesting seats this time round. If the Conservatives retain it, as currently looks likely, those voters who claim to esteem good governance who voted for them will deserve everything they get.

    I looked at the map today to see what the constituency consisted of - it's a very odd area!
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Andy_JS said:

    If we don't get some polls soon I'm going to start having withdrawal symptoms.

    With a week to go we must be due at least one shock poll that give the Tories only a 2-3% lead...

    Oh what fun that will be, until the next 12%-er comes in :lol:
    That will be the voodoo poll commissioned by CCHQ to ensure remainders soil their pants and vot Tory.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited December 2019
    Andy_JS said:

    Re Chuka does anyone think labour supporters will back him

    He made a mistake standing in this constituency IMO. Kensington, Wokingham or Putney would have been better shots.
    No, it was the best choice.

    Westminster had a higher Remain vote than Kensington or Wokingham.

    While Kensington is a Labour seat and Putney was a Labour seat making it harder for Chuka to claim only he could beat the Tories as Cities of London and Westminster has always been a Tory seat
  • Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:
    I have a hunch that Peter Hitchens is probably right about cannabis. The problem is that the "zeitgeit" says cannabis is okay and tobacco is not okay.
    He is right. It is truly amazing how wilfully blind people are on this subject. They can’t know many people that have done it if they think it’s a safe drug.
    I think it's almost the oposite: they know lots of people who did itback when it was a much less scary drug. And haven't appreciated how things have changed.

    Having tried the odd joint in my younger days, I tried cannabis again in 2007. I have never been so utterly disorientated. I was fortunate that I had enough friends around me to prevent an seriously poor decisions being made. But I can easily see how very bad things can happen.
    Connecting terrorism and cannabis use though is a bit odd. He probably did many entirely normal things. You wouldn't say 'Surprise! He ate chips!' would you.

    I doubt all terrorists use cannabis, and I'm damn sure all cannabis users are not terrorists. Almost all terrorists eat chips though....
    Look up the (possible) etymology of the word "assassin"...
  • Why am I surprised that yet another leading Tory blatantly lied on a radio programme? I should be used to it by now but Sajid Javid's level of mendacity reached a new high this morning. Not only did he lie about the cause of the financial crash he also lied about homeless and rough sleeping figures.

    We should all be very concerned about the character traits of some of the leading politicians who will have the power to affect our lives in the future.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,837

    I’ve got to say I find Cities of London & Westminster one of the more interesting seats this time round. If the Conservatives retain it, as currently looks likely, those voters who claim to esteem good governance who voted for them will deserve everything they get.

    Good governance isn't an option this time round Alastair. Tories no longer think it important, Labour seem to be engaged in a giggling exercise of how-insane-can-we-promise-to-be and Lib Dems aren't in a position to deliver it, even if they had made it their main selling point. Which they haven't. An election for voting through gritted teeth.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Fear and loathing seems to be the main theme of this election. Both the major party leaders are held in this regarded by many of the population.

    Subtly, it is more 'fear' where Corbyn is concerned and 'loathing' in Boris's case.

    And therein lies the rub: people will vote for a politician they loathe if the main alternative is one they fear.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127

    nico67 said:


    Great to see @BorisJohnson giving an interview to @thismorning after repeatedly promising to do @GMB.
    I do love a man who keeps his word, especially when he wants us to trust him to run the country.
    Thanks Boris! 👍👏👏 https://t.co/3z4aAwJeiG

    Have you been drinking ?
    I do not drink. Are you upset at all Boris's media appearances
    I am becoming increasingly discomfited by your change in personality. Prior to your cruise you were a serious-minded if somewhat pompous elderly gentleman with a distinct speech pattern and a tendency towards overcapitalisation ("Party", "Country") who was so concerned about no-deal he left the party. After your cruise you have morphed into a Boris uber-loyalist who has rejoined the party despite the continued threat of No Deal and whose speech pattern is now noticeably different. Your post above is reminiscent of a younger man and is genuinely trolling.

    What happened? Was that post an attack post sent out by Central Office and resent by you? Is your account shared with a younger relative? You do genuinely sound like a different person.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Re Chuka does anyone think labour supporters will back him

    He made a mistake standing in this constituency IMO. Kensington, Wokingham or Putney would have been better shots.
    No, it was the best choice.

    Westminster had a higher Remain vote than Kensington or Wokingham.

    While Kensington is a Labour seat and Putney was a Labour seat making it harder for Chuka to claim only he could beat the Tories as Cities of London and Westminster has always been a Tory seat
    I still think Kensington might have been better because there's more chance of the other two parties being evenly split, allowing him to come through the middle. In Cities of London & Westminster he'll probably need at least 40% to win, whereas it might have been 35% in Kensington. But I accept there isn't a lot of difference between them.
  • Why am I surprised that yet another leading Tory blatantly lied on a radio programme? I should be used to it by now but Sajid Javid's level of mendacity reached a new high this morning. Not only did he lie about the cause of the financial crash he also lied about homeless and rough sleeping figures.

    We should all be very concerned about the character traits of some of the leading politicians who will have the power to affect our lives in the future.

    Yesterday Corbyn claimed to have a magical ability to watch programmes from the future that had not yet been broadcast... :lol:
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    Why am I surprised that yet another leading Tory blatantly lied on a radio programme? I should be used to it by now but Sajid Javid's level of mendacity reached a new high this morning. Not only did he lie about the cause of the financial crash he also lied about homeless and rough sleeping figures.

    We should all be very concerned about the character traits of some of the leading politicians who will have the power to affect our lives in the future.

    Care to provide a link to what he said, and a link to what the actual numbers are?
  • Cookie said:

    I’ve got to say I find Cities of London & Westminster one of the more interesting seats this time round. If the Conservatives retain it, as currently looks likely, those voters who claim to esteem good governance who voted for them will deserve everything they get.

    Good governance isn't an option this time round Alastair. Tories no longer think it important, Labour seem to be engaged in a giggling exercise of how-insane-can-we-promise-to-be and Lib Dems aren't in a position to deliver it, even if they had made it their main selling point. Which they haven't. An election for voting through gritted teeth.
    Once you eliminate the impossible, what remains however improbable must be the truth. Both Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson are public dangers and thus impossible. The choice proceeds from that.
  • In a late bid, the "Others" [*] have quintupled their voteshare from 1% to 5% with Savanta/ComRes between 27-28 Nov and 2-3 Dec.

    (*) Others := everyone apart from Con, Lab, LibDem, BXP, UKIP, SNP, Plaid, Green, and Change UK.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    BluerBlue said:

    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:
    I have a hunch that Peter Hitchens is probably right about cannabis. The problem is that the "zeitgeit" says cannabis is okay and tobacco is not okay.
    He is right. It is truly amazing how wilfully blind people are on this subject. They can’t know many people that have done it if they think it’s a safe drug.
    I think it's almost the oposite: they know lots of people who did itback when it was a much less scary drug. And haven't appreciated how things have changed.

    Having tried the odd joint in my younger days, I tried cannabis again in 2007. I have never been so utterly disorientated. I was fortunate that I had enough friends around me to prevent an seriously poor decisions being made. But I can easily see how very bad things can happen.
    Connecting terrorism and cannabis use though is a bit odd. He probably did many entirely normal things. You wouldn't say 'Surprise! He ate chips!' would you.

    I doubt all terrorists use cannabis, and I'm damn sure all cannabis users are not terrorists. Almost all terrorists eat chips though....
    Look up the (possible) etymology of the word "assassin"...
    They eat chips too. Known for it!
    (And yes I know - cannabis use isn't wise, but it most certainly doesn't turn you into a terrorist, and I doubt it even makes you more likely to be a terrorist.)

  • Fear and loathing seems to be the main theme of this election. Both the major party leaders are held in this regarded by many of the population.

    Subtly, it is more 'fear' where Corbyn is concerned and 'loathing' in Boris's case.

    And therein lies the rub: people will vote for a politician they loathe if the main alternative is one they fear.

    Strange, we Tories generally go with 'oderint dum metuant'...
  • JamesPJamesP Posts: 85
    I was looking at some of the outputs of the Electoral Calculus model.

    Labour's vote is assumed to be much more efficient this time. In the last election, 37 Labour MPs were elected with more than 70% of the vote, 10 of these had 80%+ of the vote.

    Electoral Calculus' latest prediction is that only 1 Labour MP will be elected with 70% of the vote (Birmingham Hodge Hill). I find this highly improbable. My prediction is that Labour will likely pile up the votes in these places again.

    So, I wondered where the votes are going, I haven't looked at many places yet, but here's the three party share predictions for selected seats (some of the 80%+ ones) with changes from 2017

    Liverpool Walton

    LAB: 59.9% (-25.8)
    CON: 28.4% (+19.8)
    LD: 7.5% (+6.0)

    I simply do not see the Conservatives pulling off a 23% swing in Liverpool of all places. The Conservatives will be lucky to break 10% in Walton.

    Knowsley:

    LAB: 61.1% (-24.2)
    CON: 17.8% (+8.5)
    LD: 7.6% (+5.3)
    BXP 8.8%

    I still don't believe this one.


    Other seats they are predicted to lose massive shares in

    Bootle -23.2% (BXP predicted 8.1%
    Liverpool West Derby -21.8% (BXP predicted 8.4%)
    Garston and Halewood -20.7% (BXP 7.2%)
    Liverpool Riverside -20.4% (BXP 4.2%)


    And finally

    Gateshead:

    LAB: 46.0% (-19.3)
    CON: 42.1% (+18.2)

    18.75 Lab to CON swing in Gateshead? To become a marginal?

    15 on Betfair at the moment

    And just for fun...

    Sedgefield:

    LAB: 39.7% (-13.7)
    CON: 39.8% (+1.0)

    CON GAIN Sedgefield
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Re Chuka does anyone think labour supporters will back him

    He made a mistake standing in this constituency IMO. Kensington, Wokingham or Putney would have been better shots.
    No, it was the best choice.

    Westminster had a higher Remain vote than Kensington or Wokingham.

    While Kensington is a Labour seat and Putney was a Labour seat making it harder for Chuka to claim only he could beat the Tories as Cities of London and Westminster has always been a Tory seat
    Cheerleading for Chuka makes a very combination with Boosting Boris and Brexit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    I hope Chuka wins. Never liked him, but his journey, even if aided in motivation by personal prospects, was not the easy path and I respect his effort.
    BluerBlue said:

    nico67 said:

    Page 48 of the Tory manifesto has had little coverage but shows what the Tories have in store as they try to grab more power for the executive .

    This where I remind everyone that Labour's manifesto includes specific plans to extend the franchise to all residents of the UK, which could mean a net gain of millions of votes for Labour and would be the most extreme act of vote-rigging in generations.
    It's not a competition to see who is seeking to change the rules of the game most in their partisan favour. At least it bloody well shouldnt be.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Henrietta said:

    In a late bid, the "Others" [*] have quintupled their voteshare from 1% to 5% with Savanta/ComRes between 27-28 Nov and 2-3 Dec.

    (*) Others := everyone apart from Con, Lab, LibDem, BXP, UKIP, SNP, Plaid, Green, and Change UK.

    At this (geometric) rate they could be on 25% by election day! :wink:
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    Henrietta said:

    In a late bid, the "Others" [*] have quintupled their voteshare from 1% to 5% with Savanta/ComRes between 27-28 Nov and 2-3 Dec.

    (*) Others := everyone apart from Con, Lab, LibDem, BXP, UKIP, SNP, Plaid, Green, and Change UK.

    How many people will actually have an *other* on their ballot paper?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:
    I have a hunch that Peter Hitchens is probably right about cannabis. The problem is that the "zeitgeit" says cannabis is okay and tobacco is not okay.
    He is right. It is truly amazing how wilfully blind people are on this subject. They can’t know many people that have done it if they think it’s a safe drug.
    On this and on many other subjects, the answer is to be found in medical statistics. So much of society (especially in the political sphere) would be better addressed by epidemiology and medical stats. But use of illegal drugs is surrounded by so much bollocks both pro- and anti- it is difficult to blast a path thru it. My exposure to this board increasingly makes me think we just don't do grown-up in the UK. As I've said before, I'm beginning to really dislike the 21st century.
  • JamesPJamesP Posts: 85
    Andy_JS said:

    If we don't get some polls soon I'm going to start having withdrawal symptoms.

    There is one local council by-election tonight if that would make you feel any better?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    BluerBlue said:

    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:
    I have a hunch that Peter Hitchens is probably right about cannabis. The problem is that the "zeitgeit" says cannabis is okay and tobacco is not okay.
    He is right. It is truly amazing how wilfully blind people are on this subject. They can’t know many people that have done it if they think it’s a safe drug.
    I think it's almost the oposite: they know lots of people who did itback when it was a much less scary drug. And haven't appreciated how things have changed.

    Having tried the odd joint in my younger days, I tried cannabis again in 2007. I have never been so utterly disorientated. I was fortunate that I had enough friends around me to prevent an seriously poor decisions being made. But I can easily see how very bad things can happen.
    Connecting terrorism and cannabis use though is a bit odd. He probably did many entirely normal things. You wouldn't say 'Surprise! He ate chips!' would you.

    I doubt all terrorists use cannabis, and I'm damn sure all cannabis users are not terrorists. Almost all terrorists eat chips though....
    Look up the (possible) etymology of the word "assassin"...
    Mmm, because (possible) etymologies are an infallible guide to the truth. They are how we know that all Bulgarians like it up the marmite motorway. This stuff causes, above all else, an overwhelming can'tbearsedness and is the last thing you'd want to feed to an assassin.

    The idea that legalising the milder strains is going to reduce either supply or demand for the super strength versions is sweet, mind. Is it also going to see heroin and cocaine vanish? If not, why is skunk different?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    RobD said:

    1 week 4 hours and 5 minutes to the exit poll......

    BONG.......

    If I’ve crunched the numbers correctly, that’s 1117 BONGs to go (including the first one at 10).
    Can you keep us updated with the Bong-Countdown every hour?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,837

    Cookie said:

    I’ve got to say I find Cities of London & Westminster one of the more interesting seats this time round. If the Conservatives retain it, as currently looks likely, those voters who claim to esteem good governance who voted for them will deserve everything they get.

    Good governance isn't an option this time round Alastair. Tories no longer think it important, Labour seem to be engaged in a giggling exercise of how-insane-can-we-promise-to-be and Lib Dems aren't in a position to deliver it, even if they had made it their main selling point. Which they haven't. An election for voting through gritted teeth.
    Once you eliminate the impossible, what remains however improbable must be the truth. Both Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson are public dangers and thus impossible. The choice proceeds from that.
    So you are voting yellow this time? Or one of the others? I would never criticise voting in favour of wjo you want most, rather than against who you like least - otherwise we are forever stuck with only two options.
  • JamesP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If we don't get some polls soon I'm going to start having withdrawal symptoms.

    There is one local council by-election tonight if that would make you feel any better?
    Small beer :lol:
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    I hope Chuka wins. He's a talent.

    One of the particularly disappointing aspects of remainers not accepting a democratic decision is how many of our limited pool of talent have thrown away their careers on this. I think Chuka has more to add than most of our MPs as of course did Rory Stewart and even Dominic Grieve and Letwin.
    If only they wouldn't maintain principles about the UK's single most important foreign policy issue and a vital plank in its diminishing security. Fools.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,880
    edited December 2019
    Sandpit said:

    Henrietta said:

    In a late bid, the "Others" [*] have quintupled their voteshare from 1% to 5% with Savanta/ComRes between 27-28 Nov and 2-3 Dec.

    (*) Others := everyone apart from Con, Lab, LibDem, BXP, UKIP, SNP, Plaid, Green, and Change UK.

    How many people will actually have an *other* on their ballot paper?
    Yes, we have Christian People's Party here. Apart from that we have Con/Lab/LD/Green/Brexit.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:
    I have a hunch that Peter Hitchens is probably right about cannabis. The problem is that the "zeitgeit" says cannabis is okay and tobacco is not okay.
    He is right. It is truly amazing how wilfully blind people are on this subject. They can’t know many people that have done it if they think it’s a safe drug.
    On this and on many other subjects, the answer is to be found in medical statistics. So much of society (especially in the political sphere) would be better addressed by epidemiology and medical stats. But use of illegal drugs is surrounded by so much bollocks both pro- and anti- it is difficult to blast a path thru it. My exposure to this board increasingly makes me think we just don't do grown-up in the UK. As I've said before, I'm beginning to really dislike the 21st century.
    And when someone does try to move the debate on by using data to quantify the risks of drug use, he gets given the sack.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    edited December 2019

    Sandpit said:

    Henrietta said:

    In a late bid, the "Others" [*] have quintupled their voteshare from 1% to 5% with Savanta/ComRes between 27-28 Nov and 2-3 Dec.

    (*) Others := everyone apart from Con, Lab, LibDem, BXP, UKIP, SNP, Plaid, Green, and Change UK.

    How many people will actually have an *other* on their ballot paper?
    Nope, not here. We have Con/Lab/LD/Green/Brexit
    Just Con/Lab/LD/Green here.

    Edit: though I see that sunil does have an other choice after all.
  • JamesPJamesP Posts: 85

    JamesP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If we don't get some polls soon I'm going to start having withdrawal symptoms.

    There is one local council by-election tonight if that would make you feel any better?
    Small beer :lol:
    But ripe for over-analysis :smile:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    JamesP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If we don't get some polls soon I'm going to start having withdrawal symptoms.

    There is one local council by-election tonight if that would make you feel any better?
    Small beer :lol:
    Is that Beer in Devon?
  • Fear and loathing seems to be the main theme of this election. Both the major party leaders are held in this regarded by many of the population.

    Subtly, it is more 'fear' where Corbyn is concerned and 'loathing' in Boris's case.

    And therein lies the rub: people will vote for a politician they loathe if the main alternative is one they fear.

    Good summary.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231

    And I've told you I don't think they will break with him and I dont know or care if he will run if they did. I enjoy democrat misery far more than trump happiness

    OK. But I think it's an interesting scenario to contemplate. He is acquitted but damaged and dropped as Rep nominee. Does he then thrill his base, keep his ego centre stage, and punish the Reps by running as a spoiler indy. You would no doubt condemn him if so, given you hate the Dems so.

    On which point, a question. Is it healthy for your politics to be driven by the misery it causes opponents? There was something similar yesterday from @saddened who stated that the reason he loves "Boris" is the way he drives the lefty twitterati wild with rage. Fine. But is it? Is it really fine to feel this way.

    As a contrast, if a left leaning Labour government were ever elected I would be pleased because of what I would hope it would do to transform this great but vulnerable country of ours. The buzz would not come from how incredibly upset Toby Young would be. Well, hang on, do I mean that? Yes. Yes, I think I do.

    Not that I wish to set myself up as a paragon. I'm not. I'm a creep. I'm a weirdo. Not sure what the hell I'm doing here a lot of the time.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,837
    Sandpit said:

    Henrietta said:

    In a late bid, the "Others" [*] have quintupled their voteshare from 1% to 5% with Savanta/ComRes between 27-28 Nov and 2-3 Dec.

    (*) Others := everyone apart from Con, Lab, LibDem, BXP, UKIP, SNP, Plaid, Green, and Change UK.

    How many people will actually have an *other* on their ballot paper?
    I think the growth in others comes from an OP in which people were actually shown the candidate list in their constituency. So I'd say this is realistic. Though people may change their minds once it comes to do it for real.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited December 2019
    I`m really tempted to stick a grand on Tories to get maj at 1.41. Can someone talk me out of it please?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,837
    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Henrietta said:

    In a late bid, the "Others" [*] have quintupled their voteshare from 1% to 5% with Savanta/ComRes between 27-28 Nov and 2-3 Dec.

    (*) Others := everyone apart from Con, Lab, LibDem, BXP, UKIP, SNP, Plaid, Green, and Change UK.

    How many people will actually have an *other* on their ballot paper?
    I think the growth in others comes from an OP in which people were actually shown the candidate list in their constituency. So I'd say this is realistic. Though people may change their minds once it comes to do it for real.
    Also, there do seem to be a lot of others from my quick canter through local constituencies. Wr have a communist, and there is a Liberal next door. Not my taste - but some will find something to their taste, and others will like to place a vote for NOTA.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602
    Good description of Labour moderates and Corbynistas.

    "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."
  • A
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    I hope Chuka wins. He's a talent.

    One of the particularly disappointing aspects of remainers not accepting a democratic decision is how many of our limited pool of talent have thrown away their careers on this. I think Chuka has more to add than most of our MPs as of course did Rory Stewart and even Dominic Grieve and Letwin.
    1) you might usefully reflect on why talented politicians should consciously risk their careers over Brexit. The answer, of course, is that these talented men and women believe it to be a disaster that they can’t acquiesce to.

    2) two of the four you name opposed only no-deal Brexit. Your unconscious equation of no-deal Brexit with Brexit shows how even self-proclaimed moderate Leavers have been propelled to the extremes.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    eristdoof said:

    RobD said:

    1 week 4 hours and 5 minutes to the exit poll......

    BONG.......

    If I’ve crunched the numbers correctly, that’s 1117 BONGs to go (including the first one at 10).
    Can you keep us updated with the Bong-Countdown every hour?
    How much is it worth to you? :):D
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019

    However, I think it will only take him into a respectable second place, not a win, not least because the Tory candidate seems sensible and is well-established locally (she's the leader of Westminster council).

    Ah yes, leadership of Westminster council. That bastion of open government and fair practice.
  • BluerBlue said:

    Fear and loathing seems to be the main theme of this election. Both the major party leaders are held in this regarded by many of the population.

    Subtly, it is more 'fear' where Corbyn is concerned and 'loathing' in Boris's case.

    And therein lies the rub: people will vote for a politician they loathe if the main alternative is one they fear.

    Strange, we Tories generally go with 'oderint dum metuant'...
    Ecce homo, qui est faba!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,837
    Stocky said:

    I`m really tempted to stick a grand on Tories to get maj at 1.41. Can someone talk me out of it please?

    I think a Tory majority is the most likely outcome. But only just. And I'd say the value is in laying Tory majority at this price.
  • Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    I’ve got to say I find Cities of London & Westminster one of the more interesting seats this time round. If the Conservatives retain it, as currently looks likely, those voters who claim to esteem good governance who voted for them will deserve everything they get.

    Good governance isn't an option this time round Alastair. Tories no longer think it important, Labour seem to be engaged in a giggling exercise of how-insane-can-we-promise-to-be and Lib Dems aren't in a position to deliver it, even if they had made it their main selling point. Which they haven't. An election for voting through gritted teeth.
    Once you eliminate the impossible, what remains however improbable must be the truth. Both Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson are public dangers and thus impossible. The choice proceeds from that.
    So you are voting yellow this time? Or one of the others? I would never criticise voting in favour of wjo you want most, rather than against who you like least - otherwise we are forever stuck with only two options.
    Probably Lib Dem. I’m semi-seriously considering lighting my ballot paper before dropping it into the ballot box. The choice is awful.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,837
    Cookie said:

    Stocky said:

    I`m really tempted to stick a grand on Tories to get maj at 1.41. Can someone talk me out of it please?

    I think a Tory majority is the most likely outcome. But only just. And I'd say the value is in laying Tory majority at this price.
    Either way, I definitely wouldn't risk a grand on it!
  • JamesPJamesP Posts: 85
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Stocky said:

    I`m really tempted to stick a grand on Tories to get maj at 1.41. Can someone talk me out of it please?

    I think a Tory majority is the most likely outcome. But only just. And I'd say the value is in laying Tory majority at this price.
    Either way, I definitely wouldn't risk a grand on it!
    Join the £10 club instead?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    Stocky said:

    I`m really tempted to stick a grand on Tories to get maj at 1.41. Can someone talk me out of it please?

    I’m doing the same, and I lost money in 2017, maybe that will make you reconsider?
  • Stocky said:

    I`m really tempted to stick a grand on Tories to get maj at 1.41. Can someone talk me out of it please?

    I would advise against, but personally just my view.

    Yes labour are polling poor, and Corbyns approval ratings are beyond poor. However, Boris ratings are very low for a PM, plus the government's approval rating is lower than Majors in 1997.

    Tories are going for a 4th consecutive general election win. No party in parliamentary history has won a majority on there 4th electoral victory while holding a minority government.

    Tactical voting is set to be bigger than ever in this election, I expect a few tory seats to fall to lib dems. Not many but enough to make a majority hard. Plus the tories are not keeping all 13 seats in scotland.

    On top of that, while brexit party are jot standing in the tory seats, they are in the majority of labour's, the split here still hurts the tories.

    By all means I may be wrong but I think we are looking at another hung parliament l.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    kinabalu said:

    And I've told you I don't think they will break with him and I dont know or care if he will run if they did. I enjoy democrat misery far more than trump happiness

    OK. But I think it's an interesting scenario to contemplate. He is acquitted but damaged and dropped as Rep nominee. Does he then thrill his base, keep his ego centre stage, and punish the Reps by running as a spoiler indy. You would no doubt condemn him if so, given you hate the Dems so.

    On which point, a question. Is it healthy for your politics to be driven by the misery it causes opponents? There was something similar yesterday from @saddened who stated that the reason he loves "Boris" is the way he drives the lefty twitterati wild with rage. Fine. But is it? Is it really fine to feel this way.

    As a contrast, if a left leaning Labour government were ever elected I would be pleased because of what I would hope it would do to transform this great but vulnerable country of ours. The buzz would not come from how incredibly upset Toby Young would be. Well, hang on, do I mean that? Yes. Yes, I think I do.

    Not that I wish to set myself up as a paragon. I'm not. I'm a creep. I'm a weirdo. Not sure what the hell I'm doing here a lot of the time.
    It's a curious scenario. I'd not want the dems to win so I think trump would need to butt out.
    I'm not sure if its healthy but I see the dems the way I do the labour party, as traitors to their core voters and as such worthy of contempt. The dems I believe to be morally bankrupt, sinister types. One only has to look at the net wealth of figures like Pelosi before entering the house and now to suspect they are very much on the take, she could not have possibly become as wealthy as she is on congressional salary. The left in America also tends to be where you find the likes of Biden, Anthony Weiner etc. Pervs.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    BluerBlue said:

    Fear and loathing seems to be the main theme of this election. Both the major party leaders are held in this regarded by many of the population.

    Subtly, it is more 'fear' where Corbyn is concerned and 'loathing' in Boris's case.

    And therein lies the rub: people will vote for a politician they loathe if the main alternative is one they fear.

    Strange, we Tories generally go with 'oderint dum metuant'...
    In different circumstances I have also used "atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant"
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:
    I have a hunch that Peter Hitchens is probably right about cannabis. The problem is that the "zeitgeit" says cannabis is okay and tobacco is not okay.
    He is right. It is truly amazing how wilfully blind people are on this subject. They can’t know many people that have done it if they think it’s a safe drug.
    I think it's almost the oposite: they know lots of people who did itback when it was a much less scary drug. And haven't appreciated how things have changed.

    Having tried the odd joint in my younger days, I tried cannabis again in 2007. I have never been so utterly disorientated. I was fortunate that I had enough friends around me to prevent an seriously poor decisions being made. But I can easily see how very bad things can happen.
    Connecting terrorism and cannabis use though is a bit odd. He probably did many entirely normal things. You wouldn't say 'Surprise! He ate chips!' would you.

    I doubt all terrorists use cannabis, and I'm damn sure all cannabis users are not terrorists. Almost all terrorists eat chips though....
    Connecting terrorism and cannabis is not at all odd

    https://attackersmokedcannabis.com/

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2015/11/the-use-of-mind-altering-drugs-by-terrorists-some-new-facts.html
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    saddened said:

    Brom said:

    I'm biased as a Jeremy Beadle megafan but the video to accompany this story is hilarious, depressing, eye-opening and all things in-between.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7759719/Squirming-Jeremy-Corbyn-supporters-accidentally-deem-unfit-office.html

    Particularly enjoyed the woman trying to claim the offending passage in the book Jeremy, wrote the foreword for, was added after he wrote it.
    Despite being told it was in there when he first published 100 years ago. Genius.
    Yes - she was as thick as mince, as well as nasty.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Sandpit said:

    Stocky said:

    I`m really tempted to stick a grand on Tories to get maj at 1.41. Can someone talk me out of it please?

    I’m doing the same, and I lost money in 2017, maybe that will make you reconsider?
    Is that a 410 return?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    I’ve got to say I find Cities of London & Westminster one of the more interesting seats this time round. If the Conservatives retain it, as currently looks likely, those voters who claim to esteem good governance who voted for them will deserve everything they get.

    Good governance isn't an option this time round Alastair. Tories no longer think it important, Labour seem to be engaged in a giggling exercise of how-insane-can-we-promise-to-be and Lib Dems aren't in a position to deliver it, even if they had made it their main selling point. Which they haven't. An election for voting through gritted teeth.
    Once you eliminate the impossible, what remains however improbable must be the truth. Both Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson are public dangers and thus impossible. The choice proceeds from that.
    So you are voting yellow this time? Or one of the others? I would never criticise voting in favour of wjo you want most, rather than against who you like least - otherwise we are forever stuck with only two options.
    Probably Lib Dem. I’m semi-seriously considering lighting my ballot paper before dropping it into the ballot box. The choice is awful.
    You may get arrested for such an act!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    edited December 2019
    nichomar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Stocky said:

    I`m really tempted to stick a grand on Tories to get maj at 1.41. Can someone talk me out of it please?

    I’m doing the same, and I lost money in 2017, maybe that will make you reconsider?
    Is that a 410 return?
    Yes, 41% return in a week. £1k down and £1410 back.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,837

    A

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    I hope Chuka wins. He's a talent.

    One of the particularly disappointing aspects of remainers not accepting a democratic decision is how many of our limited pool of talent have thrown away their careers on this. I think Chuka has more to add than most of our MPs as of course did Rory Stewart and even Dominic Grieve and Letwin.
    1) you might usefully reflect on why talented politicians should consciously risk their careers over Brexit. The answer, of course, is that these talented men and women believe it to be a disaster that they can’t acquiesce to.

    2) two of the four you name opposed only no-deal Brexit. Your unconscious equation of no-deal Brexit with Brexit shows how even self-proclaimed moderate Leavers have been propelled to the extremes.
    Re 2. - though some interpretations are that those two have opposed no-deal essentially in order to make any Brexit impossible. That is to say, there has been some silly buggers being played. I wouldn't venture an opinion on whether that has been the case for the two in question, but there have been more than a handful of MPs engaged in trying to appear to support a pragmatic Brexit while trying to ensure that it doesn't happen.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    Stocky said:

    I`m really tempted to stick a grand on Tories to get maj at 1.41. Can someone talk me out of it please?

    Never bet more than you can afford to lose. That is the only advice I give on the wisdom of betting. It's your decision, not mine.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    On the day of the 2017 election we were all wisely talking about how big May's majority would be. And mocking Survation.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Alistair said:

    On the day of the 2017 election we were all wisely talking about how big May's majority would be. And mocking Survation.

    Whaddya trying to say?!
  • Cookie said:

    A

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    I hope Chuka wins. He's a talent.

    One of the particularly disappointing aspects of remainers not accepting a democratic decision is how many of our limited pool of talent have thrown away their careers on this. I think Chuka has more to add than most of our MPs as of course did Rory Stewart and even Dominic Grieve and Letwin.
    1) you might usefully reflect on why talented politicians should consciously risk their careers over Brexit. The answer, of course, is that these talented men and women believe it to be a disaster that they can’t acquiesce to.

    2) two of the four you name opposed only no-deal Brexit. Your unconscious equation of no-deal Brexit with Brexit shows how even self-proclaimed moderate Leavers have been propelled to the extremes.
    Re 2. - though some interpretations are that those two have opposed no-deal essentially in order to make any Brexit impossible. That is to say, there has been some silly buggers being played. I wouldn't venture an opinion on whether that has been the case for the two in question, but there have been more than a handful of MPs engaged in trying to appear to support a pragmatic Brexit while trying to ensure that it doesn't happen.
    That’s unfounded paranoia found among the more unhinged Leavers. There is not the slightest reason to believe that either Rory Stewart or Oliver Letwin opposes an orderly Brexit. All the evidence points the other way.
  • viewcode said:

    nico67 said:


    Great to see @BorisJohnson giving an interview to @thismorning after repeatedly promising to do @GMB.
    I do love a man who keeps his word, especially when he wants us to trust him to run the country.
    Thanks Boris! 👍👏👏 https://t.co/3z4aAwJeiG

    Have you been drinking ?
    I do not drink. Are you upset at all Boris's media appearances
    I am becoming increasingly discomfited by your change in personality. Prior to your cruise you were a serious-minded if somewhat pompous elderly gentleman with a distinct speech pattern and a tendency towards overcapitalisation ("Party", "Country") who was so concerned about no-deal he left the party. After your cruise you have morphed into a Boris uber-loyalist who has rejoined the party despite the continued threat of No Deal and whose speech pattern is now noticeably different. Your post above is reminiscent of a younger man and is genuinely trolling.

    What happened? Was that post an attack post sent out by Central Office and resent by you? Is your account shared with a younger relative? You do genuinely sound like a different person.
    With the greatest of respect I do nobodies bidding and you simply do not know how greatly my opinions and management skills were respected by my staff and my peers so much so they appointed me to advise them on all aspects of compliance in new regulatory environmemts created by goverment legislation throughout the 80 and 90s and to liase with government departments and officials

    I am my own person and people who know me would think you are uttering nonsense, probably because your particular political expectation is in peril
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721
    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:
    I have a hunch that Peter Hitchens is probably right about cannabis. The problem is that the "zeitgeit" says cannabis is okay and tobacco is not okay.
    He is right. It is truly amazing how wilfully blind people are on this subject. They can’t know many people that have done it if they think it’s a safe drug.
    I think it's almost the oposite: they know lots of people who did itback when it was a much less scary drug. And haven't appreciated how things have changed.

    Having tried the odd joint in my younger days, I tried cannabis again in 2007. I have never been so utterly disorientated. I was fortunate that I had enough friends around me to prevent an seriously poor decisions being made. But I can easily see how very bad things can happen.
    Connecting terrorism and cannabis use though is a bit odd. He probably did many entirely normal things. You wouldn't say 'Surprise! He ate chips!' would you.

    I doubt all terrorists use cannabis, and I'm damn sure all cannabis users are not terrorists. Almost all terrorists eat chips though....
    Quite a high percentage of terrorists are recruited after involvement in mostly petty crime. Teenage males involved in petty crime are frequent cannabis users.

    Cannabis does induce both a feckless apathy to any real achievement and also paranoia. That is fertile grounds for recruitment to Islamism. Islamism is quite effective at giving aimless losers a motivation in life. I am not at all surprised that many terrorists have a history of using it. It is a very destructive drug, but in a rather more insidious way than alcohol or heroin.

  • viewcode said:

    BluerBlue said:

    Fear and loathing seems to be the main theme of this election. Both the major party leaders are held in this regarded by many of the population.

    Subtly, it is more 'fear' where Corbyn is concerned and 'loathing' in Boris's case.

    And therein lies the rub: people will vote for a politician they loathe if the main alternative is one they fear.

    Strange, we Tories generally go with 'oderint dum metuant'...
    In different circumstances I have also used "atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant"
    Look, you can criticize his methods all you like, but the fact remains that Tarkin reduced unemployment on Alderaan to zero in the blink of a eye, OK? :wink:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    @dyedwoolie

    I would need more - or some - evidence before accepting a link between leftwingery and sexual deviance.

    I'm left wing btw.
  • Sandpit said:

    Why am I surprised that yet another leading Tory blatantly lied on a radio programme? I should be used to it by now but Sajid Javid's level of mendacity reached a new high this morning. Not only did he lie about the cause of the financial crash he also lied about homeless and rough sleeping figures.

    We should all be very concerned about the character traits of some of the leading politicians who will have the power to affect our lives in the future.

    Care to provide a link to what he said, and a link to what the actual numbers are?
    The charity Shelter has confirmed that homelessness has not halved but has gone up since the Tories came to power.Rough sleepers are up by165% as quoted today by Dame Louise Casey who said the 'Javid lied and he shouldn't lie.'

    On the same programme Javid returned to the false premise that the global financial crash was started by Labour. This quote should set the record straight.

    Javid is spinning his former career as a sober investment banker, 'He was not a careful banker but a structured credit trader at the heart of the business that precipitated the global financial crash.' ( Former Deutsche Bank Colleague)
  • There seems to be alot less polling this election compared to 2017, or is it just me?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Sandpit said:

    nichomar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Stocky said:

    I`m really tempted to stick a grand on Tories to get maj at 1.41. Can someone talk me out of it please?

    I’m doing the same, and I lost money in 2017, maybe that will make you reconsider?
    Is that a 410 return?
    Yes, 41% return in a week. £1k down and £1410 back.
    Well unless shagger is caught shagging in public it’s free money, is there any sniff of scandal in the air? It’s the only thing that can stop him.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    edited December 2019

    Sandpit said:

    Why am I surprised that yet another leading Tory blatantly lied on a radio programme? I should be used to it by now but Sajid Javid's level of mendacity reached a new high this morning. Not only did he lie about the cause of the financial crash he also lied about homeless and rough sleeping figures.

    We should all be very concerned about the character traits of some of the leading politicians who will have the power to affect our lives in the future.

    Care to provide a link to what he said, and a link to what the actual numbers are?
    The charity Shelter has confirmed that homelessness has not halved but has gone up since the Tories came to power.Rough sleepers are up by165% as quoted today by Dame Louise Casey who said the 'Javid lied and he shouldn't lie.'

    On the same programme Javid returned to the false premise that the global financial crash was started by Labour. This quote should set the record straight.

    Javid is spinning his former career as a sober investment banker, 'He was not a careful banker but a structured credit trader at the heart of the business that precipitated the global financial crash.' ( Former Deutsche Bank Colleague)
    For how many homeless people will the charity Shelter, provide shelter for this Christmas?

    Answer: none at all. They don’t provide shelter for the homeless, they are no better than any other group of lobbyists pushing an agenda.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    isam said:

    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:
    I have a hunch that Peter Hitchens is probably right about cannabis. The problem is that the "zeitgeit" says cannabis is okay and tobacco is not okay.
    He is right. It is truly amazing how wilfully blind people are on this subject. They can’t know many people that have done it if they think it’s a safe drug.
    I think it's almost the oposite: they know lots of people who did itback when it was a much less scary drug. And haven't appreciated how things have changed.

    Having tried the odd joint in my younger days, I tried cannabis again in 2007. I have never been so utterly disorientated. I was fortunate that I had enough friends around me to prevent an seriously poor decisions being made. But I can easily see how very bad things can happen.
    Connecting terrorism and cannabis use though is a bit odd. He probably did many entirely normal things. You wouldn't say 'Surprise! He ate chips!' would you.

    I doubt all terrorists use cannabis, and I'm damn sure all cannabis users are not terrorists. Almost all terrorists eat chips though....
    Connecting terrorism and cannabis is not at all odd

    https://attackersmokedcannabis.com/

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2015/11/the-use-of-mind-altering-drugs-by-terrorists-some-new-facts.html
    This may well be a very strong but inherently uninteresting correlation, though. Look at UK football hooliganism as a parallel: alcohol is an absolutely integral part of the culture, but nobody seriously doubts these people would be equally nasty little shits without it.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127

    viewcode said:

    nico67 said:


    Great to see @BorisJohnson giving an interview to @thismorning after repeatedly promising to do @GMB.
    I do love a man who keeps his word, especially when he wants us to trust him to run the country.
    Thanks Boris! 👍👏👏 https://t.co/3z4aAwJeiG

    Have you been drinking ?
    I do not drink. Are you upset at all Boris's media appearances
    I am becoming increasingly discomfited by your change in personality. Prior to your cruise you were a serious-minded if somewhat pompous elderly gentleman with a distinct speech pattern and a tendency towards overcapitalisation ("Party", "Country") who was so concerned about no-deal he left the party. After your cruise you have morphed into a Boris uber-loyalist who has rejoined the party despite the continued threat of No Deal and whose speech pattern is now noticeably different. Your post above is reminiscent of a younger man and is genuinely trolling.

    What happened? Was that post an attack post sent out by Central Office and resent by you? Is your account shared with a younger relative? You do genuinely sound like a different person.
    With the greatest of respect I do nobodies bidding and you simply do not know how greatly my opinions and management skills were respected by my staff and my peers so much so they appointed me to advise them on all aspects of compliance in new regulatory environmemts created by goverment legislation throughout the 80 and 90s and to liase with government departments and officials

    I am my own person and people who know me would think you are uttering nonsense, probably because your particular political expectation is in peril
    See? Now you are being mean again. It's unlike the previous version of you.

    (And as for "my particular political expectation", you do know I placed a bet on Con Maj at 2/9, yes? I posted it on here).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Why am I surprised that yet another leading Tory blatantly lied on a radio programme? I should be used to it by now but Sajid Javid's level of mendacity reached a new high this morning. Not only did he lie about the cause of the financial crash he also lied about homeless and rough sleeping figures.

    We should all be very concerned about the character traits of some of the leading politicians who will have the power to affect our lives in the future.

    Care to provide a link to what he said, and a link to what the actual numbers are?
    The charity Shelter has confirmed that homelessness has not halved but has gone up since the Tories came to power.Rough sleepers are up by165% as quoted today by Dame Louise Casey who said the 'Javid lied and he shouldn't lie.'

    On the same programme Javid returned to the false premise that the global financial crash was started by Labour. This quote should set the record straight.

    Javid is spinning his former career as a sober investment banker, 'He was not a careful banker but a structured credit trader at the heart of the business that precipitated the global financial crash.' ( Former Deutsche Bank Colleague)
    For many homeless people will the charity Shelter, provide shelter for this Christmas?
    What has that got to do with it?

    https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1202555941524312066?s=19
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    I’ve got to say I find Cities of London & Westminster one of the more interesting seats this time round. If the Conservatives retain it, as currently looks likely, those voters who claim to esteem good governance who voted for them will deserve everything they get.

    Good governance isn't an option this time round Alastair. Tories no longer think it important, Labour seem to be engaged in a giggling exercise of how-insane-can-we-promise-to-be and Lib Dems aren't in a position to deliver it, even if they had made it their main selling point. Which they haven't. An election for voting through gritted teeth.
    Once you eliminate the impossible, what remains however improbable must be the truth. Both Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson are public dangers and thus impossible. The choice proceeds from that.
    So you are voting yellow this time? Or one of the others? I would never criticise voting in favour of wjo you want most, rather than against who you like least - otherwise we are forever stuck with only two options.
    Probably Lib Dem. I’m semi-seriously considering lighting my ballot paper before dropping it into the ballot box. The choice is awful.
    I’m semi-seriously thinking of writing the words of the anonymous Cabinet Minister, as reported by Nick Watts, on my ballot paper.

    Fuck knows. I’m past caring. It’s like the living dead in here.”

    https://youtu.be/SmqKvuyNPA8
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited December 2019

    There seems to be alot less polling this election compared to 2017, or is it just me?

    In the 2nd last week of the 2017 campaign there were 18 opinion polls conducted in that week.

    This time there have been 11 (published so far)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,837

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    I’ve got to say I find Cities of London & Westminster one of the more interesting seats this time round. If the Conservatives retain it, as currently looks likely, those voters who claim to esteem good governance who voted for them will deserve everything they get.

    Good governance isn't an option this time round Alastair. Tories no longer think it important, Labour seem to be engaged in a giggling exercise of how-insane-can-we-promise-to-be and Lib Dems aren't in a position to deliver it, even if they had made it their main selling point. Which they haven't. An election for voting through gritted teeth.
    Once you eliminate the impossible, what remains however improbable must be the truth. Both Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson are public dangers and thus impossible. The choice proceeds from that.
    So you are voting yellow this time? Or one of the others? I would never criticise voting in favour of wjo you want most, rather than against who you like least - otherwise we are forever stuck with only two options.
    Probably Lib Dem. I’m semi-seriously considering lighting my ballot paper before dropping it into the ballot box. The choice is awful.
    Well good for you in identifying a least worst option. It may not lead to good governance but spoiling your ballit paper definitely won't. And settinf fire to your ballit paper will seriously ruin some blameless presiding officer's day.

    Seriously, Alastair, you are not alonein your frustration and fury. Console yourself that as the occasional author of pieces on a well respected politics blog you have a greater outlet for your frustration and a greater influence than most.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Cookie said:

    A

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    I hope Chuka wins. He's a talent.

    One of the particularly disappointing aspects of remainers not accepting a democratic decision is how many of our limited pool of talent have thrown away their careers on this. I think Chuka has more to add than most of our MPs as of course did Rory Stewart and even Dominic Grieve and Letwin.
    1) you might usefully reflect on why talented politicians should consciously risk their careers over Brexit. The answer, of course, is that these talented men and women believe it to be a disaster that they can’t acquiesce to.

    2) two of the four you name opposed only no-deal Brexit. Your unconscious equation of no-deal Brexit with Brexit shows how even self-proclaimed moderate Leavers have been propelled to the extremes.
    Re 2. - though some interpretations are that those two have opposed no-deal essentially in order to make any Brexit impossible. That is to say, there has been some silly buggers being played. I wouldn't venture an opinion on whether that has been the case for the two in question, but there have been more than a handful of MPs engaged in trying to appear to support a pragmatic Brexit while trying to ensure that it doesn't happen.
    That’s unfounded paranoia found among the more unhinged Leavers. There is not the slightest reason to believe that either Rory Stewart or Oliver Letwin opposes an orderly Brexit. All the evidence points the other way.
    They are doing what they always do rewriting history to their own advantage
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    BluerBlue said:

    viewcode said:

    BluerBlue said:

    Fear and loathing seems to be the main theme of this election. Both the major party leaders are held in this regarded by many of the population.

    Subtly, it is more 'fear' where Corbyn is concerned and 'loathing' in Boris's case.

    And therein lies the rub: people will vote for a politician they loathe if the main alternative is one they fear.

    Strange, we Tories generally go with 'oderint dum metuant'...
    In different circumstances I have also used "atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant"
    Look, you can criticize his methods all you like, but the fact remains that Tarkin reduced unemployment on Alderaan to zero in the blink of a eye, OK? :wink:
    I laughed unexpectedly and swallowed a bit of chewing gum. So if a tree grows in my tummy, it's your fault... :)
  • Andy_JS said:

    Good description of Labour moderates and Corbynistas.

    "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."

    Good old Yeats. The earlier lines seem apt as well.

    "Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold".

    Could be the perfect description of our current party political system.
This discussion has been closed.