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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The political divide between mums and dads, poor Ipsos MORI ra

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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212
    Chris said:

    Deleted

    It's the 2017 start point as I'm sure you've just realised :D
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited November 2019
    RobD said:

    Andrew said:
    Definitely a contraction of the lead in the last week though! Tories down 15 seats from some unknown number to that number-15.
    Edit as it was ********
  • RobD said:

    Andrew said:
    Definitely a contraction of the lead in the last week though! Tories down 15 seats from some unknown number to that number-15.
    Negative movements correlate to the debates and the manifesto. On the other hand the Tories did well at the start when Labour dominated the campaign.

    Conclusion? Shut up and get Corbyn on the telly....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212
    kinabalu said:

    Surely time for a "Not Like" button on here.
    Carries his 239 lbs well doesn't he ?
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    148grss said:
    Nobody is denying the US pays more fot drugs. What is fake news is that we will pay US drug prices. That isn't going to happen.
  • RobD said:

    Andrew said:
    Definitely a contraction of the lead in the last week though! Tories down 15 seats from some unknown number to that number-15.
    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1199719300543795200
  • camelcamel Posts: 815
    kinabalu said:

    camel said:

    I'm enjoying Feisty Kinabalu. It's like a fresh twist on an old classic.

    :smile: I'm a bit schizo.
    But "verminous", c'mon, honestly.
    You've been a bit 'ratty' today. Maybe was simply using a big word to express that. Or, as those prone to do so say, being sesquipedalian.

    I like to give them all the benefit of the doubt. Even the ones that don't deserve it.

    :)
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    Pulpstar said:

    Chris said:

    Deleted

    It's the 2017 start point as I'm sure you've just realised :D
    Yes - when I saw 317 I got too excited to check properly before posting.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    Bloody hell Clive James has died.
  • Damn it. I am really upset about that one. One of the great literary figures of the post war period for me. Such a shame.

    RIP.
  • glw said:

    Bloody hell Clive James has died.

    Hasn't he been seriously ill for along time?
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    On the poster claiming the much quoted Rabbi is a Brexit-loving troll, Daniel Finkelstein takes the view that:

    “As this has been sent to me several times by people, please note that this is the standard greeting of a prime minister on taking office. It is offensive nonsense to suggest it was a political statement of support.”

    Who to believe?
  • glw said:

    Bloody hell Clive James has died.

    Hasn't he been seriously ill for along time?
    He has, but was still writing until relatively recently.

    Very sad news - he made some brilliant TV, alongside his writing.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236
    Byronic said:

    Chuka would be an excellent leader. Despite his flaws he is articulate, telegenic, persuasive. He’d also be the first BAME major party leader. A coup for the LDs.
    Sadly for them he is v unlikely to win.

    I agree. Not that he would be unlikely to win (I think he might well) but that he would be a great choice for the LDs. He's not exactly choc-a-bloc with political principle but he is a VERY effective and articulate communicator. I know actual specific people in my real life - 2 of them, they're a married couple - who would vote for any party led by Chuka.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    I thought he was dead already.

  • glwglw Posts: 9,912

    glw said:

    Bloody hell Clive James has died.

    Hasn't he been seriously ill for along time?
    He has, and was said to be at death's door some year ago, which I recall caused him some consternation when it was publicised.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Quite the spoiler from Matt Singh!
  • glw said:

    glw said:

    Bloody hell Clive James has died.

    Hasn't he been seriously ill for along time?
    He has, and was said to be at death's door some year ago, which I recall caused him some consternation when it was publicised.
    However, Grim has been very busy today. Gary Rhodes, Clive James and Jonathan Miller.
  • https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1199181946166874112?s=20
    Bold of Trump to claim credit for the passage of time..
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Never mind the NHS , the documents reveal the UK will be a lap dog vassal stats told what to do by the lunatic in the WH.

    Essentially the UK has to do what it’s told on international relations otherwise it doesn’t get its trade deal .
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1199722969284726784

    Corbyn walks into a bear trap, hoping Johnson would do the same.
  • dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1199722969284726784

    Corbyn walks into a bear trap, hoping Johnson would do the same.

    And why Labour have dropped this stuff today....
  • nico67 said:

    Never mind the NHS , the documents reveal the UK will be a lap dog vassal stats told what to do by the lunatic in the WH.

    Essentially the UK has to do what it’s told on international relations otherwise it doesn’t get its trade deal .

    They really don’t say that. This is why read-outs of negotiations aren’t published. People don’t understand them.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    edited November 2019

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1199722969284726784

    Corbyn walks into a bear trap, hoping Johnson would do the same.

    And why Labour have dropped this stuff today....
    It won't have any effect.
  • dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1199722969284726784

    Corbyn walks into a bear trap, hoping Johnson would do the same.

    Clever move from CCHQ for once!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited November 2019
    From the screen shot of YouGov model it is clear the trend is with Labour. It is unclear how the Tories change that....hung parliament incoming.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    From the screen shot of YouGov model it is clear the trend is with Labour. It is unclear how the Tories change that....hung parliament incoming.

    Consistent with the contraction of the lead from about 14% to 11% in the last week or so.
  • From the screen shot of YouGov model it is clear the trend is with Labour. It is unclear how the Tories change that....hung parliament incoming.

    Up slightly over the campaign period, bu down in the last week. Fits with the polls really.

    It all rather depends how much ground you think Labour must make up.
  • Gabs3 said:

    148grss said:
    Nobody is denying the US pays more fot drugs. What is fake news is that we will pay US drug prices. That isn't going to happen.
    You are probably right. The US wont do a trade deal without it though, and the US trade deal was one of the supposed prizes of Brexit.
  • From the screen shot of YouGov model it is clear the trend is with Labour. It is unclear how the Tories change that....hung parliament incoming.

    Up slightly over the campaign period, bu down in the last week. Fits with the polls really.

    It all rather depends how much ground you think Labour must make up.
    Still 2 weeks to squeeze Lib Dem share.
  • camelcamel Posts: 815
    kinabalu said:

    Byronic said:

    Chuka would be an excellent leader. Despite his flaws he is articulate, telegenic, persuasive. He’d also be the first BAME major party leader. A coup for the LDs.
    Sadly for them he is v unlikely to win.

    I agree. Not that he would be unlikely to win (I think he might well) but that he would be a great choice for the LDs. He's not exactly choc-a-bloc with political principle but he is a VERY effective and articulate communicator. I know actual specific people in my real life - 2 of them, they're a married couple - who would vote for any party led by Chuka.
    The LibDems should have shoved Chukka in at Sheffield Hallam. It shows a lack of ruthlessness and/or naivete on the part of the LibDems a) not to recognise his star quality and b) not to shunt the excellent Laura Gordon to a development seat.
  • From the screen shot of YouGov model it is clear the trend is with Labour. It is unclear how the Tories change that....hung parliament incoming.

    Up slightly over the campaign period, bu down in the last week. Fits with the polls really.

    It all rather depends how much ground you think Labour must make up.
    I find the movement in seats vs. polling interesting. Suggests some tight margins when such small polling movements have that impact.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    nico67 said:

    Never mind the NHS , the documents reveal the UK will be a lap dog vassal stats told what to do by the lunatic in the WH.

    Essentially the UK has to do what it’s told on international relations otherwise it doesn’t get its trade deal .

    They really don’t say that. This is why read-outs of negotiations aren’t published. People don’t understand them.
    But the passage of the document clearly suggests that in international forums the UK could complicate a trade deal if it dares to go against the US line .

    So basically be a lapdog !
  • Byronic said:

    I've not received a single election leaflet yet.

    Had 2 ladies knock on the door dressed all in red and thought it might be canvassers . . . but no it was Jehovah's Witnesses. Responded quite politely to me saying "no thanks I'm an atheist" rather than trying to continue the conversation as I've had before.

    “quite politely to MY saying “no thanks..”

    One case where correct grammar is useful. Your original statement is unclear. It could be the Jehovah’s Witness declaring atheism.
    You're right that was a typo. But how many people would read that and think the dook-knocking Jehovah's Witnesses were declaring themselves to be atheist? Rather than that being my response?

    I know I can be argumentative at times but I've never bothered trying to convince Jehovah's at the doorstep, if I'd gotten them to renounce their faith while at my door that would probably be a much more surprising story!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,444
    Pro_Rata said:

    Artist said:

    Tested a few interesting constituencies on the BestofBritain MRP

    West Bromwich East- Tories 3% ahead
    Coventry South- Labour 11% ahead
    Stoke on Trent Central- Tories 2% ahead
    Redcar- Labour 4% ahead
    Cheltenham- Lib Dems 2% ahead

    How do you find individual seats?
    I tried but could only see the tactical voting site and that only worked via postcode and not seat name.
    Slightly manual, but if you work out, for example, that S44 is the town postcode for Bolsover, and then start typing, the postcode autofills.

    Fine for half a dozen or so seats you are interested in, but no good whatsoever for flitting around 650 seats.
    I believe the URLs for the images on the webpages use the seat IDs for the constituencies, so that can be an easier way.
  • Just came home to my first election leaflet.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    From the screen shot of YouGov model it is clear the trend is with Labour. It is unclear how the Tories change that....hung parliament incoming.

    Up slightly over the campaign period, bu down in the last week. Fits with the polls really.

    It all rather depends how much ground you think Labour must make up.
    I find the movement in seats vs. polling interesting. Suggests some tight margins when such small polling movements have that impact.
    It looks consistent with both the percentages and the seat numbers changing by something on the order of one percent per day. (By which I mean a hundredth for the percentages, not a percentage point.)
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    Just came home to my first election leaflet.

    My postal vote just came through the door.

    Alongside a BXP leaflet and a Tory Anti-corbyn leaflet that focused on tax rises rather than Brexit.
  • camelcamel Posts: 815
    I'd be thrilled at these seat totals. Would put me in overall profit before a single constituency has been called. Might not be relying on the Friday afternoon late results to rescue me after all.

    Sadly I think the next two weeks will see my position deteriorate substantially.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The Labour team behind Corbyn are clueless , fancy agreeing to the AN interview without confirmation Bozo would do it.

    Of course Bozo is going to chicken out .
  • What time are we expecting the YouGov MRP tonight?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721
    Nigelb said:
    Greater self love has he who lays down his friends for his life...

    It is an extraordinarily unfortunate position to be in, surrounded by convicted criminals yet as pure and innocent as Trump.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    What time are we expecting the YouGov MRP tonight?

    10pm. We should get a live stream of big ben set up.
  • camel said:

    I'd be thrilled at these seat totals. Would put me in overall profit before a single constituency has been called. Might not be relying on the Friday afternoon late results to rescue me after all.

    Sadly I think the next two weeks will see my position deteriorate substantially.
    The fact that almost every Tory on this board would take that result must give you a sign of nerves...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236
    camel said:

    You've been a bit 'ratty' today. Maybe was simply using a big word to express that. Or, as those prone to do so say, being sesquipedalian.
    I like to give them all the benefit of the doubt. Even the ones that don't deserve it.
    :)

    Yes, "ratty", perfect description. Probably still smarting from Jeremy not taking my advice on what not to do when under the Neil cosh. I specifically told him (email to HQ) not to keep sniffing and fiddling with his beard and glasses. Yet he spent more time doing that than not. Starting to doubt whether he actually reads what I send in. Or if he does, that it fails to register. But anyway. Time for some Buddhism. Catch you anon.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    camel said:

    I'd be thrilled at these seat totals. Would put me in overall profit before a single constituency has been called. Might not be relying on the Friday afternoon late results to rescue me after all.

    Sadly I think the next two weeks will see my position deteriorate substantially.
    The fact that almost every Tory on this board would take that result must give you a sign of nerves...
    We all remember 2017 :o
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited November 2019
    RobD said:

    What time are we expecting the YouGov MRP tonight?

    10pm. We should get a live stream of big ben set up.
    Much as I would love all the hung parliament malarkey to be true ...

    ... this is an OPINION POLL!!! It's not even an exit poll.

    There's another 2 weeks of campaigning even if postal votes will start filtering out soon.

    Labour have some momentum though I reckon the antisemitism attack of yesterday will dent them (probably temporarily).
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836

    Gabs3 said:

    148grss said:
    Nobody is denying the US pays more fot drugs. What is fake news is that we will pay US drug prices. That isn't going to happen.
    You are probably right. The US wont do a trade deal without it though, and the US trade deal was one of the supposed prizes of Brexit.
    Depends on the President. President Warren might use it to reduce US drug prices!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    edited November 2019

    All I was saying is that Rabbi Mirvis is a friend and supporter of Boris Johnson so therefore not a neutral observer. The choice of date for the release of his comments just before the launch of Labour's race and faith manifesto made them less powerful because it was such a deliberate act.

    I hope that Rabbi Mirvis and Corbyn now meet to discuss all the issues in a productive manner.

    I’d have thought that the day before the launch of a party’s race and faith manifesto is exactly the time for a religious leader to make a comment about that party’s attitude to one particular faith/race.
    You also choose to ignore what the Hindu Council UK wrote about Labour - “It is a sad state of affairs that a major political party in our country which used to be a progressive socialist voice has veered towards what almost is a fascist ideology.".
  • glw said:

    glw said:

    Bloody hell Clive James has died.

    Hasn't he been seriously ill for along time?
    He has, and was said to be at death's door some year ago, which I recall caused him some consternation when it was publicised.
    However, Grim has been very busy today. Gary Rhodes, Clive James and Jonathan Miller.
    Shame he didn't write more music. It was really quite good.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-Ka6e8hPSk
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    After Meltdown Monday when the sky seemed to be falling for the Tories it does seem that the news cycle has turned against Labour somewhat.

    The Betfair markets are indicating so with another lay on Con Maj 340+ being taken out at 1.8.

    If I can close out the Con Maj lay at some point between now and the 12th then the dream scenario would be the Tories on 339.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    BluerBlue said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1199722969284726784

    Corbyn walks into a bear trap, hoping Johnson would do the same.

    Clever move from CCHQ for once!
    So instead of everyone saying AN crushed Johnson just like he did Corbyn et al he has isolated himself as the only one not willing to face journalistic scrutiny. And for every interview for the next week he will be asked why.

    All Johnson has to do like May before him is hide from the backlash, pretend that he really had something more pressing on and watch the narrowing polls expand again as everyone realises that yes he is the man for the job.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721

    Just came home to my first election leaflet.

    My first one today. Rather well presented LD one, centred on excellent local candidate around the constituency. Disappointingly no bar chart!
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    Just came home to my first election leaflet.

    Wow. We've had 7 Lib Dem leaflets and 1 Con so far in what's nominally a very safe Con seat. Nothing at all from Labour, which obviously hasn't stopped them whining about "the Lib Dems should have stood down for us".
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited November 2019
    nico67 said:

    But the passage of the document clearly suggests that in international forums the UK could complicate a trade deal if it dares to go against the US line .

    That's a statement of the bleedin' obvious. To take a simple example, to do any kind of trade deal with the EU we'll have to sign up to keeping their regulations for Protected Designations of Origin (and a jolly good thing too). The US doesn't like these, because they want to be able to sell us fraudulent products masquerading as Parmesan etc. Clearly we can't please both.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted/2012/11/19/the-dark-side-of-parmesan-cheese-what-you-dont-know-might-hurt-you/#67770a8c4645
    The other crucial point to note is that, because of considerations like this, it follows that we can't finalise anything much in the way of trade deals outside the EU until we've finalised the relationship with the EU. So don't hold your breath for that US trade deal!
  • What time are we expecting the YouGov MRP tonight?

    10pm. *bong*
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited November 2019

    BluerBlue said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1199722969284726784

    Corbyn walks into a bear trap, hoping Johnson would do the same.

    Clever move from CCHQ for once!
    So instead of everyone saying AN crushed Johnson just like he did Corbyn et al he has isolated himself as the only one not willing to face journalistic scrutiny. And for every interview for the next week he will be asked why.

    All Johnson has to do like May before him is hide from the backlash, pretend that he really had something more pressing on and watch the narrowing polls expand again as everyone realises that yes he is the man for the job.
    He should do it. I think the downsides of not going outweigh the downsides of going. As bad as the Corbyn interview was, it won't change anything.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    nico67 said:

    The Labour team behind Corbyn are clueless , fancy agreeing to the AN interview without confirmation Bozo would do it.

    Of course Bozo is going to chicken out .

    The BBC had published a schedule of days the interviews would be broadcast.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    glw said:

    glw said:

    Bloody hell Clive James has died.

    Hasn't he been seriously ill for along time?
    He has, and was said to be at death's door some year ago, which I recall caused him some consternation when it was publicised.
    My Nan died in the mid 1980s, and I remember her thinking Clive James had died because there was a show on TV that night called "The Late Clive James"... he looked old then!
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    Does anybody know who is the lamb going to face Neil tonight?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited November 2019
    I presume the betting markets will start moving as no way all those journos who have been briefed by YouGov can keep their traps shut until 10pm.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Alistair said:

    nico67 said:

    The Labour team behind Corbyn are clueless , fancy agreeing to the AN interview without confirmation Bozo would do it.

    Of course Bozo is going to chicken out .

    The BBC had published a schedule of days the interviews would be broadcast.
    I had read that Johnson was either on the 2nd or 3rd of December. But that information might be outdated now.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721
    Cyclefree said:

    All I was saying is that Rabbi Mirvis is a friend and supporter of Boris Johnson so therefore not a neutral observer. The choice of date for the release of his comments just before the launch of Labour's race and faith manifesto made them less powerful because it was such a deliberate act.

    I hope that Rabbi Mirvis and Corbyn now meet to discuss all the issues in a productive manner.

    I’d have thought that the day before the launch of a party’s race and faith manifesto is exactly the time for a religious leader to make a comment about that party’s attitude to one particular faith/race.
    You also choose to ignore what the Hindu Council UK wrote about Labour - “It is a sad state of affairs that a major political party in our country which used to be a progressive socialist voice has veered towards what almost is a fascist ideology.".
    Considering that the Hindu Council's objection to the Labour party is that the LP opposed Modi's closing of social media, locking up of activists and withdrawal of autonomy for Kashmir, so presumably not fascist enough for them!
  • RobD said:

    BluerBlue said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1199722969284726784

    Corbyn walks into a bear trap, hoping Johnson would do the same.

    Clever move from CCHQ for once!
    So instead of everyone saying AN crushed Johnson just like he did Corbyn et al he has isolated himself as the only one not willing to face journalistic scrutiny. And for every interview for the next week he will be asked why.

    All Johnson has to do like May before him is hide from the backlash, pretend that he really had something more pressing on and watch the narrowing polls expand again as everyone realises that yes he is the man for the job.
    He should do it. I think the downsides of not going outweigh the downsides of going. As bad as the Corbyn interview was, it won't change anything.
    Of course he should do it. Just not until most of the postal votes are back... :wink:
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    BluerBlue said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1199722969284726784

    Corbyn walks into a bear trap, hoping Johnson would do the same.

    Clever move from CCHQ for once!
    So instead of everyone saying AN crushed Johnson just like he did Corbyn et al he has isolated himself as the only one not willing to face journalistic scrutiny. And for every interview for the next week he will be asked why.

    All Johnson has to do like May before him is hide from the backlash, pretend that he really had something more pressing on and watch the narrowing polls expand again as everyone realises that yes he is the man for the job.
    Has he swerved it? I thought he should. Wont shift one vote
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Fenman said:

    Hear there is a really good poll coming out on December 12th after 10pm. Likely to be very accurate too.

    No, all General Elections have massive sampling errors...
  • Gabs3 said:

    Gabs3 said:

    148grss said:
    Nobody is denying the US pays more fot drugs. What is fake news is that we will pay US drug prices. That isn't going to happen.
    You are probably right. The US wont do a trade deal without it though, and the US trade deal was one of the supposed prizes of Brexit.
    Depends on the President. President Warren might use it to reduce US drug prices!
    The Senate is unlikely to break democrat so Pres Warren likely also means no trade deal as the senate will block whatever she wants. I think the probability of getting a US trade deal by 2025 is sub 10%, and if we get one, it will be minimalistic simply to allow Johnson and Trump to claim personal success rather than achieve any benefit for either of the nations they are supposed to represent.
  • Gabs3 said:

    148grss said:
    Nobody is denying the US pays more fot drugs. What is fake news is that we will pay US drug prices. That isn't going to happen.
    You are probably right. The US wont do a trade deal without it though, and the US trade deal was one of the supposed prizes of Brexit.
    You know that as a fact?
  • Gabs3 said:

    148grss said:
    Nobody is denying the US pays more fot drugs. What is fake news is that we will pay US drug prices. That isn't going to happen.
    You are probably right. The US wont do a trade deal without it though, and the US trade deal was one of the supposed prizes of Brexit.
    Agriculture and healthcare are the objectives for the US in a trade deal with us. The only other area where there are substantive tariff or non tariff barriers is autos, and most of the cars produced in the US are too big to park in a supermarket car park over here. The UK seems very keen on a deal, and if it is to be done it will have to involve us moving towards their food rules (bad news for UK food producers who will then be shut out of EU markets) or giving ground on things like drug prices.
    A Tory govt with a big majority would I am sure try to push through a deeply unpopular trade deal with the US as part of a package of Thatcherite measures presented as "making Brexit work", alongside deregulation in labour and financial markets, maybe as economic shock therapy in response to a recession in 2021 triggered by leaving the single market on WTO terms. It is all fairly easy to predict. Vote Labour if you don't want it to happen.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,845
    edited November 2019

    Gabs3 said:

    148grss said:
    Nobody is denying the US pays more fot drugs. What is fake news is that we will pay US drug prices. That isn't going to happen.
    You are probably right. The US wont do a trade deal without it though, and the US trade deal was one of the supposed prizes of Brexit.
    You know that as a fact?
    Am I a fortune teller with the ability to foretell the future? No.
    It is an opinion, which is shared by most informed observers of US politics.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381

    From the screen shot of YouGov model it is clear the trend is with Labour. It is unclear how the Tories change that....hung parliament incoming.

    I must be looking at different polling numbers to you.
  • Caveat on YouGov MRP: has any one pollster / polling method ever gotten the result spot on in two consecutive elections? If not, then shouldn't we discount its accuracy for that reason alone, despite the temptation to believe it because it was so good last time?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Does anybody know who is the lamb going to face Neil tonight?

    Must be Jo. Boris is frit and who else is there?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721
    On the subject of YouGov, one of my best investments, up 73% over the year or so, so my favourite pollster :)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2019
    BluerBlue said:

    Caveat on YouGov MRP: has any one pollster / polling method ever gotten the result spot on in two consecutive elections? If not, then shouldn't we discount its accuracy for that reason alone, despite the temptation to believe it because it was so good last time?

    Probably... almost certainly
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited November 2019
    Sean_F said:

    From the screen shot of YouGov model it is clear the trend is with Labour. It is unclear how the Tories change that....hung parliament incoming.

    I must be looking at different polling numbers to you.
    I think we are going to see lead down to single figures this week and then Labour could throw out some more bribes / smear stories to try and to get it down to 5-6% by GE.

    The Tories need to come up with something. So far again they have let Labour get away with a manifesto of horseshit and their own offering is totally forgettable.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    BluerBlue said:

    RobD said:

    BluerBlue said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1199722969284726784

    Corbyn walks into a bear trap, hoping Johnson would do the same.

    Clever move from CCHQ for once!
    So instead of everyone saying AN crushed Johnson just like he did Corbyn et al he has isolated himself as the only one not willing to face journalistic scrutiny. And for every interview for the next week he will be asked why.

    All Johnson has to do like May before him is hide from the backlash, pretend that he really had something more pressing on and watch the narrowing polls expand again as everyone realises that yes he is the man for the job.
    He should do it. I think the downsides of not going outweigh the downsides of going. As bad as the Corbyn interview was, it won't change anything.
    Of course he should do it. Just not until most of the postal votes are back... :wink:
    Postal voters aren’t generally floating voters.

    Those postal voters who send their votes back straight away certainly aren’t.
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    I have read the various comments about the BFB MRP (and other MRPs) with some interest. Why people insist on placing any reliance on individual constituency forecasts is beyond me. Whilst these models are a big step forward in forecasting overall results, they have similar weaknesses to traditional models in looking locally. In many ways they are similar to the general linearised models used in insurance pricing (and now superseded by more sophisticated models). These used many more variables, had a dataset comprising millions (often tens of millions) of risk years (rather than tens of thousands of respondents) - and still there were significant variances between postcodes (their equivalent to constituencies) which were forecast to produce a similar result.

    I suggest everyone focus on the big picture from MRPs and not get excited about individual constituencies. The variations will largely cancel out overall (although this may not be the case for smaller parties where factors not in use may become more important - the equivalent of age tails in pricing).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    He's right. The BBC shouldn't have given assurances to Labour about Johnson's interview if it wasn't confirmed.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212

    Sean_F said:

    From the screen shot of YouGov model it is clear the trend is with Labour. It is unclear how the Tories change that....hung parliament incoming.

    I must be looking at different polling numbers to you.
    I think we are going to see lead down to single figures this week and then Labour could throw out some more bribes / smear stories to try and to get it down to 5-6% by GE.

    The Tories need to come up with something. So far again they have let Labour get away with a manifesto of horseshit and their own offering is totally forgettable.
    Labour admitting taxes could go up for those on lower incomes if they got in led the morning news cycle, along with the antisemitism today.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited November 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    From the screen shot of YouGov model it is clear the trend is with Labour. It is unclear how the Tories change that....hung parliament incoming.

    I must be looking at different polling numbers to you.
    I think we are going to see lead down to single figures this week and then Labour could throw out some more bribes / smear stories to try and to get it down to 5-6% by GE.

    The Tories need to come up with something. So far again they have let Labour get away with a manifesto of horseshit and their own offering is totally forgettable.
    Labour admitting taxes could go up for those on lower incomes if they got in led the morning news cycle, along with the antisemitism today.
    It is now gone though. We are all about the fake news Tories sell the NHS and all the deaths of well known people.

    Given the amount of publicity Led by Donkeys achieved and the Tories hired the Kiwi Shitsters, why no clever posters etc. It is clear now with social media, you just put up one poster and then tweet it / retweet it. The more outrageous the better.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721
    BluerBlue said:

    Caveat on YouGov MRP: has any one pollster / polling method ever gotten the result spot on in two consecutive elections? If not, then shouldn't we discount its accuracy for that reason alone, despite the temptation to believe it because it was so good last time?

    I think the other MRP in 2017 predicted a May majority of 50, but has been buried by history. It is a method but isn't magic.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    RobD said:

    He's right. The BBC shouldn't have given assurances to Labour about Johnson's interview if it wasn't confirmed.
    The BBC should threaten to give the Tories no coverage for the rest of the campaign if he doesn’t do the interview.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    .
    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    He's right. The BBC shouldn't have given assurances to Labour about Johnson's interview if it wasn't confirmed.
    The BBC should threaten to give the Tories no coverage for the rest of the campaign if he doesn’t do the interview.
    Can they legally do that?
  • nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Never mind the NHS , the documents reveal the UK will be a lap dog vassal stats told what to do by the lunatic in the WH.

    Essentially the UK has to do what it’s told on international relations otherwise it doesn’t get its trade deal .

    They really don’t say that. This is why read-outs of negotiations aren’t published. People don’t understand them.
    But the passage of the document clearly suggests that in international forums the UK could complicate a trade deal if it dares to go against the US line .

    So basically be a lapdog !
    It’s a readout. Someone is flagging risks/issues/opportunities. And to be honest saying that if you piss someone off they might not do your favours us stating the obvious. Nothing here reflects policy.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited November 2019
    Also, I don't really do social media, and maybe I am not the target audience, but where is all the micro-targeted Facebook ads? So far, it has all just been traditional style Lib Dem paper propaganda.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    alb1on said:

    I have read the various comments about the BFB MRP (and other MRPs) with some interest. Why people insist on placing any reliance on individual constituency forecasts is beyond me. Whilst these models are a big step forward in forecasting overall results, they have similar weaknesses to traditional models in looking locally. In many ways they are similar to the general linearised models used in insurance pricing (and now superseded by more sophisticated models). These used many more variables, had a dataset comprising millions (often tens of millions) of risk years (rather than tens of thousands of respondents) - and still there were significant variances between postcodes (their equivalent to constituencies) which were forecast to produce a similar result.

    I suggest everyone focus on the big picture from MRPs and not get excited about individual constituencies. The variations will largely cancel out overall (although this may not be the case for smaller parties where factors not in use may become more important - the equivalent of age tails in pricing).

    I would suggest that another difference from the insurance models and political MRPs is that the quality and quantity of data from which the model can learn is vastly different. The problem with political models is that each electorate is different and the issues valued by the electorate at each election are different. So the value of historic data in the political context, unlike the insurance context, is diminished.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The BBC are acting very badly by telling Labour that Johnson was confirmed for AN when he wasn’t .

    At least if he had been confirmed then if he then pulled out he might get some bad headlines , now he can just say that his busy timetable meant he couldn’t fit it in.

  • RobD said:

    .

    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    He's right. The BBC shouldn't have given assurances to Labour about Johnson's interview if it wasn't confirmed.
    The BBC should threaten to give the Tories no coverage for the rest of the campaign if he doesn’t do the interview.
    Can they legally do that?
    Surely the Tories should get _extra coverage_ as a result? :lol:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Sean_F said:

    From the screen shot of YouGov model it is clear the trend is with Labour. It is unclear how the Tories change that....hung parliament incoming.

    I must be looking at different polling numbers to you.
    I think we are going to see lead down to single figures this week and then Labour could throw out some more bribes / smear stories to try and to get it down to 5-6% by GE.

    The Tories need to come up with something. So far again they have let Labour get away with a manifesto of horseshit and their own offering is totally forgettable.
    Three elections in a row and Tories have nothing to offer us but Brexit, which itself offers us nothing.
  • camelcamel Posts: 815
    Foxy said:

    On the subject of YouGov, one of my best investments, up 73% over the year or so, so my favourite pollster :)

    I heard it was owned by tories, not Vulpine Liberals.
  • nico67 said:

    The BBC are acting very badly by telling Labour that Johnson was confirmed for AN when he wasn’t .

    At least if he had been confirmed then if he then pulled out he might get some bad headlines , now he can just say that his busy timetable meant he couldn’t fit it in.

    Well, you can't say we didn't warn the left about the dangers of state-owned industries...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    All I was saying is that Rabbi Mirvis is a friend and supporter of Boris Johnson so therefore not a neutral observer. The choice of date for the release of his comments just before the launch of Labour's race and faith manifesto made them less powerful because it was such a deliberate act.

    I hope that Rabbi Mirvis and Corbyn now meet to discuss all the issues in a productive manner.

    I’d have thought that the day before the launch of a party’s race and faith manifesto is exactly the time for a religious leader to make a comment about that party’s attitude to one particular faith/race.
    You also choose to ignore what the Hindu Council UK wrote about Labour - “It is a sad state of affairs that a major political party in our country which used to be a progressive socialist voice has veered towards what almost is a fascist ideology.".
    Considering that the Hindu Council's objection to the Labour party is that the LP opposed Modi's closing of social media, locking up of activists and withdrawal of autonomy for Kashmir, so presumably not fascist enough for them!
    That may well be so. But interesting to note nonetheless - especially when 2 years ago Labour was claiming that only they could unlock the potential of ethnic minorities.
    For years Labour was pretty much the default party for British Jews. Now it isn’t. Other minorities might well look at Labour and wonder: “Could we be thrown over too, if it suits a particular leader?”
This discussion has been closed.