It gets to the point though where we know full well what people actually want to happen - and that's Corbyn standing down.
Nothing he does will ever be good enough, the media have spent the last three years using racism as a means to score cheap political points and we know this because every time an Islamophobia issue appears it gets ignored. Boris Johnson is allowed to ignore the issue and put off an investigation and lie about it - yet Corbyn takes action and apologises and is villified.
We get some random Twitter user claiming there are "130" cases outstanding, despite not being on the NEC and not having the ability to get what is confidential information that he wouldn't have.
And yet Boris Johnson says he's afraid of a group of black people and gets away with it, again.
If you hate racism like I do, you'll know full well something stinks here.
Yes, something does stink here.
Yes, Jeremy Corbyn and his defenders who don't care about racism as long as it is card carrying socialists doing it.
No but there are many varieties of racism around. Corbyn has spent all his life fighting against it. Unlike Johnson.
The 'Jewish Community' would do far better to put a sock in it. They're going to get the rest pretty peed off if they keep up this hysteria.
The Tories are clearly terrified it is going wrong
Woah, they're going to sacrifice Corbyn??? Excellent! I'll get the sharp quartz knife and the onyx altar. Now, where did I put the Book of the Rite of Sutekh?...
My bet is a leading Labour figure/candidate disowning Corby.
I'm amazed that's not happened already. I can't see how Labour moderates can in all conscience support Labour's manifesto.
Labour moderates have consciences?
One lives in hope.
The point Luciana Berger was chased out the party was the point when Labour moderates should have taken a stand. Instead they put their careers first rather than having any solidarity with British Jews. Many used Tom Watson's plea to stay as cover for taking action. Now even he has thrown in the towel while they continue to hide from view.
Voters in Finchley and Golders Green will have the opportunity to express their solidarity with Luciana Berger shortly by electing her as their MP.
I hope they take it.
Voters is Finchley & Golders Green... that'll be me then. Labour aren't even trying in a seat they need a 1.5% swing in. Tells you all you need to know really.
Labour's handling of anti-Semitism crisis comes blasting back into the campaign - chief Rabbi demands 'every person vote with their conscience' and suggests Corbyn not fit for office
Unprecedented for the leader of a major religious group in UK to make this kind of statement in a General Election campaign - and to feel the need to do so - Labour says they have worked extremely hard to combat the problem and Corbyn has fought racism all his life
If the media pick up this story and run with it tomorrow it could have some legs
Personally (as someone who recently discovered he was Jewish) I'd really rather the Chief Rabbi didn't take sides, in the same way as I don't want the Muslim Council of Britain to state that voting Tory is anti-Muslim. It's more likely to stir divisions than heal them. We should all make up our own minds without religious leaders purporting to speak for us.
As for Matt Chorley gleefully trying to sell Times subscriptions from the article...yuck.
Corbyn should be asking the Chief Rabbi whether he supports Trumps decision to declare all Israeli settlements legal. He's being far too apologetic to these so called religious leaders when in truth they are people with an agenda and it's not a popular agenda unless you want the Palestinian's lives to be diminished even further.
I presume you think it's fair game to ask any Labour-supporting Muslim whether they support Hamas and Hezbollah, then?
Corbyn should be asking the Chief Rabbi whether he supports Trumps decision to declare all Israeli settlements legal. He's being far too apologetic to these so called religious leaders when in truth they are people with an agenda and it's not a popular agenda unless you want the Palestinian's lives to be diminished even further.
Why should the Chief Rabbi of the UK and Commonwealth have an opinion on Israeli domestic policy?
I think we’ve all got so used to Corbyn that we’ve forgotten how unusual it is for a senior religious figure to wade in to an election. It embarrassing for the country that a faith group should feel like this.
Religion and politics shouldn't mix. I don't think religious leaders should be telling people who to vote for, whatever the reason.
I think there is a difference. We have all, collectively, as a nation allowed a situation in which the ruling clique of a major political party actually scares people. Yuck.
I have a facebook friend who is a vicar. His Facebook feed is full of him telling people to vote Labour; indeed that it would be unChristian not to. To be fair, his political posts are generally rather more nuanced than most of the bile that gets posted on facebook. But still, if this is what happens in the CofE it makes you wonder how some of our more, er, traditional religions deal with politics.
It gets to the point though where we know full well what people actually want to happen - and that's Corbyn standing down.
Nothing he does will ever be good enough, the media have spent the last three years using racism as a means to score cheap political points and we know this because every time an Islamophobia issue appears it gets ignored. Boris Johnson is allowed to ignore the issue and put off an investigation and lie about it - yet Corbyn takes action and apologises and is villified.
We get some random Twitter user claiming there are "130" cases outstanding, despite not being on the NEC and not having the ability to get what is confidential information that he wouldn't have.
And yet Boris Johnson says he's afraid of a group of black people and gets away with it, again.
If you hate racism like I do, you'll know full well something stinks here.
Yes, something does stink here.
Yes, Jeremy Corbyn and his defenders who don't care about racism as long as it is card carrying socialists doing it.
No but there are many varieties of racism around. Corbyn has spent all his life fighting against it. Unlike Johnson.
The 'Jewish Community' would do far better to put a sock in it. They're going to get the rest pretty peed off if they keep up this hysteria.
Yep, they should just suck it up. The great helmsman has a plan for them.
I think we’ve all got so used to Corbyn that we’ve forgotten how unusual it is for a senior religious figure to wade in to an election. It embarrassing for the country that a faith group should feel like this.
Religion and politics shouldn't mix. I don't think religious leaders should be telling people who to vote for, whatever the reason.
I don't think religious cults should receive any taxpayer funding or be allowed to run schools and social care.
I’d forgotten quite how bad the overreactions were on here.
Reading PB tonight you’d be forgiven for thinking Corbyn was home and hosed with a majority government. When the actual fact of that matter is there has been one mildly encouraging poll for labour that would probably result in a small Tory majority if repeated on GE day.
Only a couple of days ago there was a poll with a 19% Tory lead. Let it sink in how quickly one poll has changed the mood here. Don’t get me wrong, I think the 19% lead was a wacky outlier but you must look at the overall picture.
Let’s see what the next few polls say. If there is a move to Labour registering in other polls then the Tories should be concerned but not terrified. At the moment it is the difference between a small majority and a firm majority.
I still don’t think Labour have done enough to swing enough people behind them to really challenge for government. But let’s wait and see.
A good post. The fundamentals haven't changed, the vox pops and anti Corbyn mood is still there, his leadership figures are still well behind and todays Welsh poll was exactly in line with the weekend polling average. It still looks like a 40 majority or thereabouts with the possibility of landslide or hung pt if the last fortnight is devastating one way or the other.
Corbyn should be asking the Chief Rabbi whether he supports Trumps decision to declare all Israeli settlements legal. He's being far too apologetic to these so called religious leaders when in truth they are people with an agenda and it's not a popular agenda unless you want the Palestinian's lives to be diminished even further.
Why sould the Chief Rabbi of the UK and Commonwealth have an opinion on Israeli domestic policy?
Quite. Until the last few years I though we’d seen the back of this sort of anti Semitic trope before I was born.
John Bercow, a Jewish man, doesn't think Corbyn is Jewish. Ignored.
People in the Islamic community say Boris Johnson has an Islamophobia problem. Ignored.
Noam Chomsky, Jewish, doesn't think Corbyn is anti-Semitic. Ignored.
Let us wait for the EHRC report shall we
Yes we can. But why do you conveniently ignore that Boris Johnson lied when he said he'd do an investigation into Islamophobia?
Heard nothing from you when a Tory candidate was suspended for anti-Semitism, why not?
Boris said at the manifesto launch there will be an enquiry and as for the tory candidate I have no knowledge of it but condemn it 100% if true
He said there would be an inquiry at some point, into all kinds of discrimination, not specifically on Islamophobia as he promised. He watered it down because he knows it would be bad for him.
He's a liar - and he lied again.
If this had been Corbyn you'd be here shouting. Just don't pretend you genuinally care about this issue.
Corbyn should be asking the Chief Rabbi whether he supports Trumps decision to declare all Israeli settlements legal. He's being far too apologetic to these so called religious leaders when in truth they are people with an agenda and it's not a popular agenda unless you want the Palestinian's lives to be diminished even further.
Why sould the Chief Rabbi of the UK and Commonwealth have an opinion on Israeli domestic policy?
Oh come on!!!!!!!
See, I have to say that until the 'Jewish Community' began all this ranting I was sympathetic to what they were saying and very upset with the anti-semitism in Labour.
What they're actually achieving is to turn me totally against them and making begin to re-think my views on subjects like Jewish agendas and Israel.
They should belt up. If they want to talk about anti-semitism, do it in the context of talking about the whole of racism.
It gets to the point though where we know full well what people actually want to happen - and that's Corbyn standing down.
Nothing he does will ever be good enough, the media have spent the last three years using racism as a means to score cheap political points and we know this because every time an Islamophobia issue appears it gets ignored. Boris Johnson is allowed to ignore the issue and put off an investigation and lie about it - yet Corbyn takes action and apologises and is villified.
We get some random Twitter user claiming there are "130" cases outstanding, despite not being on the NEC and not having the ability to get what is confidential information that he wouldn't have.
And yet Boris Johnson says he's afraid of a group of black people and gets away with it, again.
If you hate racism like I do, you'll know full well something stinks here.
Corbyn was a better dancer than Johnson, he told funnier jokes than Johnson, he could paint a whole apartment in one afternoon...
Corbyn should be asking the Chief Rabbi whether he supports Trumps decision to declare all Israeli settlements legal. He's being far too apologetic to these so called religious leaders when in truth they are people with an agenda and it's not a popular agenda unless you want the Palestinian's lives to be diminished even further.
Why sould the Chief Rabbi of the UK and Commonwealth have an opinion on Israeli domestic policy?
Oh come on!!!!!!!
See, I have to say that until the 'Jewish Community' began all this ranting I was sympathetic to what they were saying and very upset with the anti-semitism in Labour.
What they're actually achieving is to turn me totally against them and making begin to re-think my views on subjects like Jewish agendas and Israel.
They should belt up. If they want to talk about anti-semitism, talk about the whole of racism.
Corbyn should be asking the Chief Rabbi whether he supports Trumps decision to declare all Israeli settlements legal. He's being far too apologetic to these so called religious leaders when in truth they are people with an agenda and it's not a popular agenda unless you want the Palestinian's lives to be diminished even further.
Why sould the Chief Rabbi of the UK and Commonwealth have an opinion on Israeli domestic policy?
Oh come on!!!!!!!
See, I have to say that until the 'Jewish Community' began all this ranting I was sympathetic to what they were saying and very upset with the anti-semitism in Labour.
What they're actually achieving is to turn me totally against them and making begin to re-think my views on subjects like Jewish agendas and Israel.
They should belt up. If they want to talk about anti-semitism, talk about the whole of racism.
Can the moderators get rid of some of these hateful posts?
It gets to the point though where we know full well what people actually want to happen - and that's Corbyn standing down.
Nothing he does will ever be good enough, the media have spent the last three years using racism as a means to score cheap political points and we know this because every time an Islamophobia issue appears it gets ignored. Boris Johnson is allowed to ignore the issue and put off an investigation and lie about it - yet Corbyn takes action and apologises and is villified.
We get some random Twitter user claiming there are "130" cases outstanding, despite not being on the NEC and not having the ability to get what is confidential information that he wouldn't have.
And yet Boris Johnson says he's afraid of a group of black people and gets away with it, again.
If you hate racism like I do, you'll know full well something stinks here.
Yes, something does stink here.
Yes, Jeremy Corbyn and his defenders who don't care about racism as long as it is card carrying socialists doing it.
No but there are many varieties of racism around. Corbyn has spent all his life fighting against it. Unlike Johnson.
The 'Jewish Community' would do far better to put a sock in it. They're going to get the rest pretty peed off if they keep up this hysteria.
Even I wouldn't go that far, surely a resignation would do, he does not need to be sacrificed
LOL!
Still, I see that Corbyn's OK after all. He intends to make the UK public finances like Germany. Phew, that means we'll be running budget surpluses, with a legal limit of 0.35% deficit. On income tax we'll have the equivalent of a €14K personal allowance for individuals and marriage recognised in the tax system with a €28K personal allowance for married couples - even the Tories don't dare do that, but Corbyn's on the case, a true Conservative. Of course workers might be a little miffed at Corbyn's plan to emulate Germany in terms of paying for pension insurance (9.3%) unemployment insurance (1.5%), social care insurance (up to 1.7%) and healthcare (7.3%), but they'll be pleased that employers are also forking out similar amounts. No such thing as a free lunch, eh? https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/25/labour-will-bring-uk-into-line-with-france-and-germany-says-corbyn
Corbyn should be asking the Chief Rabbi whether he supports Trumps decision to declare all Israeli settlements legal. He's being far too apologetic to these so called religious leaders when in truth they are people with an agenda and it's not a popular agenda unless you want the Palestinian's lives to be diminished even further.
Why sould the Chief Rabbi of the UK and Commonwealth have an opinion on Israeli domestic policy?
Oh come on!!!!!!!
See, I have to say that until the 'Jewish Community' began all this ranting I was sympathetic to what they were saying and very upset with the anti-semitism in Labour.
What they're actually achieving is to turn me totally against them and making begin to re-think my views on subjects like Jewish agendas and Israel.
They should belt up. If they want to talk about anti-semitism, talk about the whole of racism.
Can the moderators get rid of some of these hateful posts?
No, leave them up so we can all see the poison that infects Labour.
The Tories are clearly terrified it is going wrong
Woah, they're going to sacrifice Corbyn??? Excellent! I'll get the sharp quartz knife and the onyx altar. Now, where did I put the Book of the Rite of Sutekh?...
John Bercow, a Jewish man, doesn't think Corbyn is Jewish. Ignored.
People in the Islamic community say Boris Johnson has an Islamophobia problem. Ignored.
Noam Chomsky, Jewish, doesn't think Corbyn is anti-Semitic. Ignored.
When you start taking Noam Chomsky seriously, then you have bigger problems.
Noam Chomsky is one of the world's foremost linguists, he's literally one of the smartest people on the planet.
He’s the guy that argues/has established (not sure which) that humans are hard wired for language in the same way that birds are hard wired to migrate, and it isn’t something just learned from scratch?
It gets to the point though where we know full well what people actually want to happen - and that's Corbyn standing down.
Nothing he does will ever be good enough, the media have spent the last three years using racism as a means to score cheap political points and we know this because every time an Islamophobia issue appears it gets ignored. Boris Johnson is allowed to ignore the issue and put off an investigation and lie about it - yet Corbyn takes action and apologises and is villified.
We get some random Twitter user claiming there are "130" cases outstanding, despite not being on the NEC and not having the ability to get what is confidential information that he wouldn't have.
And yet Boris Johnson says he's afraid of a group of black people and gets away with it, again.
If you hate racism like I do, you'll know full well something stinks here.
Yes, something does stink here.
Yes, Jeremy Corbyn and his defenders who don't care about racism as long as it is card carrying socialists doing it.
No , but both parties have problems, the media seem to concentrate on Labour which is what pisses off many supporters .
Corbyn should be asking the Chief Rabbi whether he supports Trumps decision to declare all Israeli settlements legal. He's being far too apologetic to these so called religious leaders when in truth they are people with an agenda and it's not a popular agenda unless you want the Palestinian's lives to be diminished even further.
Why sould the Chief Rabbi of the UK and Commonwealth have an opinion on Israeli domestic policy?
Oh come on!!!!!!!
See, I have to say that until the 'Jewish Community' began all this ranting I was sympathetic to what they were saying and very upset with the anti-semitism in Labour.
What they're actually achieving is to turn me totally against them and making begin to re-think my views on subjects like Jewish agendas and Israel.
They should belt up. If they want to talk about anti-semitism, talk about the whole of racism.
Can the moderators get rid of some of these hateful posts?
No. It's not 'hateful.' It's serious. Anti-semitism is really ugly but all this whingeing about it is doing is to turn the rest of voters off, and even against, the issue.
Persecution complex is a very, very, bad move by any community and they of all should know that. They're not 'special' cases any more than Muslims are or Romanians. So if they have an issue, which almost certainly is the case, they should set it in the context of racism throughout the country - of which there are tragically copious examples.
Corbyn should be asking the Chief Rabbi whether he supports Trumps decision to declare all Israeli settlements legal. He's being far too apologetic to these so called religious leaders when in truth they are people with an agenda and it's not a popular agenda unless you want the Palestinian's lives to be diminished even further.
Why sould the Chief Rabbi of the UK and Commonwealth have an opinion on Israeli domestic policy?
Oh come on!!!!!!!
See, I have to say that until the 'Jewish Community' began all this ranting I was sympathetic to what they were saying and very upset with the anti-semitism in Labour.
What they're actually achieving is to turn me totally against them and making begin to re-think my views on subjects like Jewish agendas and Israel.
They should belt up. If they want to talk about anti-semitism, do it in the context of talking about the whole of racism.
When you say this sort of stuff in your head, does it sound OK?
Because it is completely unacceptable bigotry in normal society.
John Bercow, a Jewish man, doesn't think Corbyn is Jewish. Ignored.
People in the Islamic community say Boris Johnson has an Islamophobia problem. Ignored.
Noam Chomsky, Jewish, doesn't think Corbyn is anti-Semitic. Ignored.
When you start taking Noam Chomsky seriously, then you have bigger problems.
Noam Chomsky is one of the world's foremost linguists, he's literally one of the smartest people on the planet.
His work on linguistics has in fact largely been overtaken by anthropological evidence. Even if he were an excellent linguist however, that would no more qualify him to excuse Antisemitism, than Gilad Atzmon being a good saxophonist or Roderick Spode being a dab hand at designing ladies' undergarments.
John Bercow, a Jewish man, doesn't think Corbyn is Jewish. Ignored.
People in the Islamic community say Boris Johnson has an Islamophobia problem. Ignored.
Noam Chomsky, Jewish, doesn't think Corbyn is anti-Semitic. Ignored.
Let us wait for the EHRC report shall we
Yes we can. But why do you conveniently ignore that Boris Johnson lied when he said he'd do an investigation into Islamophobia?
Heard nothing from you when a Tory candidate was suspended for anti-Semitism, why not?
Boris said at the manifesto launch there will be an enquiry and as for the tory candidate I have no knowledge of it but condemn it 100% if true
He said there would be an inquiry at some point, into all kinds of discrimination, not specifically on Islamophobia as he promised. He watered it down because he knows it would be bad for him.
He's a liar - and he lied again.
If this had been Corbyn you'd be here shouting. Just don't pretend you genuinally care about this issue.
Grow up.
I care believe you me I care. The impressions I had as a child from the death camps are seared into my memory. How dare you suggest I do not care
For me the matter will be resolved one way or another by the EHRC
Labour's handling of anti-Semitism crisis comes blasting back into the campaign - chief Rabbi demands 'every person vote with their conscience' and suggests Corbyn not fit for office
Unprecedented for the leader of a major religious group in UK to make this kind of statement in a General Election campaign - and to feel the need to do so - Labour says they have worked extremely hard to combat the problem and Corbyn has fought racism all his life
If the media pick up this story and run with it tomorrow it could have some legs
Personally (as someone who recently discovered he was Jewish) I'd really rather the Chief Rabbi didn't take sides, in the same way as I don't want the Muslim Council of Britain to state that voting Tory is anti-Muslim. It's more likely to stir divisions than heal them. We should all make up our own minds without religious leaders purporting to speak for us.
As for Matt Chorley gleefully trying to sell Times subscriptions from the article...yuck.
You can guarantee that when a political editor goes on twitter to say 'subscribe to my paper for the mega scoop we have coming up tonight', it's going to be a damp squib or old news or both.
John Bercow, a Jewish man, doesn't think Corbyn is Jewish. Ignored.
People in the Islamic community say Boris Johnson has an Islamophobia problem. Ignored.
Noam Chomsky, Jewish, doesn't think Corbyn is anti-Semitic. Ignored.
Let us wait for the EHRC report shall we
Yes we can. But why do you conveniently ignore that Boris Johnson lied when he said he'd do an investigation into Islamophobia?
Heard nothing from you when a Tory candidate was suspended for anti-Semitism, why not?
Boris said at the manifesto launch there will be an enquiry and as for the tory candidate I have no knowledge of it but condemn it 100% if true
He said there would be an inquiry at some point, into all kinds of discrimination, not specifically on Islamophobia as he promised. He watered it down because he knows it would be bad for him.
He's a liar - and he lied again.
If this had been Corbyn you'd be here shouting. Just don't pretend you genuinally care about this issue.
You should write to some MPs about it. Maybe warn them they are like jews in the Reichstag
Corbyn should be asking the Chief Rabbi whether he supports Trumps decision to declare all Israeli settlements legal. He's being far too apologetic to these so called religious leaders when in truth they are people with an agenda and it's not a popular agenda unless you want the Palestinian's lives to be diminished even further.
Why sould the Chief Rabbi of the UK and Commonwealth have an opinion on Israeli domestic policy?
Oh come on!!!!!!!
See, I have to say that until the 'Jewish Community' began all this ranting I was sympathetic to what they were saying and very upset with the anti-semitism in Labour.
What they're actually achieving is to turn me totally against them and making begin to re-think my views on subjects like Jewish agendas and Israel.
They should belt up. If they want to talk about anti-semitism, do it in the context of talking about the whole of racism.
Thank you so much for pointing out the sickness that infects Labour
Corbyn should be asking the Chief Rabbi whether he supports Trumps decision to declare all Israeli settlements legal. He's being far too apologetic to these so called religious leaders when in truth they are people with an agenda and it's not a popular agenda unless you want the Palestinian's lives to be diminished even further.
Why sould the Chief Rabbi of the UK and Commonwealth have an opinion on Israeli domestic policy?
Oh come on!!!!!!!
See, I have to say that until the 'Jewish Community' began all this ranting I was sympathetic to what they were saying and very upset with the anti-semitism in Labour.
What they're actually achieving is to turn me totally against them and making begin to re-think my views on subjects like Jewish agendas and Israel.
They should belt up. If they want to talk about anti-semitism, talk about the whole of racism.
John Bercow, a Jewish man, doesn't think Corbyn is Jewish. Ignored.
People in the Islamic community say Boris Johnson has an Islamophobia problem. Ignored.
Noam Chomsky, Jewish, doesn't think Corbyn is anti-Semitic. Ignored.
When you start taking Noam Chomsky seriously, then you have bigger problems.
Noam Chomsky is one of the world's foremost linguists, he's literally one of the smartest people on the planet.
His work on linguistics has in fact largely been overtaken by anthropological evidence. Even if he were an excellent linguist however, that would no more qualify him to excuse Antisemitism, than Gilad Atzmon being a good saxophonist or Roderick Spode being a dab hand at designing ladies' undergarments.
My point is that he's a Jew - and a very smart guy too. But because he doesn't agree with the narrative, he gets ignored.
John Bercow doesn't agree with the narrative and gets ignored.
I don't deny Labour has issues with anti-Semitism. I do deny Corbyn is anti-Semitic and if he was, something conclusive would have come out by now and yet nothing.
I do think the media uses it as a weapon to attack Labour with - which is shown because they ignore racism in other parties.
Labour's handling of anti-Semitism crisis comes blasting back into the campaign - chief Rabbi demands 'every person vote with their conscience' and suggests Corbyn not fit for office
Unprecedented for the leader of a major religious group in UK to make this kind of statement in a General Election campaign - and to feel the need to do so - Labour says they have worked extremely hard to combat the problem and Corbyn has fought racism all his life
If the media pick up this story and run with it tomorrow it could have some legs
Personally (as someone who recently discovered he was Jewish) I'd really rather the Chief Rabbi didn't take sides, in the same way as I don't want the Muslim Council of Britain to state that voting Tory is anti-Muslim. It's more likely to stir divisions than heal them. We should all make up our own minds without religious leaders purporting to speak for us.
As for Matt Chorley gleefully trying to sell Times subscriptions from the article...yuck.
Chorley demonstrated the Westminster bubble right there. With all respect to the rabbi, and not to belittle his article or its sentiments at all, but will it change anyone's vote in the world beyond, other than potentially of those in the Jewish community? Ultimately people are selfish and vote first and foremost for who they think will make life better for them themselves. Grim, but true.
The antisemitism narrative swirling around Labour is now priced in. Anyone who was already intending to vote Labour isn't going to think again due to this piece.
John Bercow, a Jewish man, doesn't think Corbyn is Jewish. Ignored.
People in the Islamic community say Boris Johnson has an Islamophobia problem. Ignored.
Noam Chomsky, Jewish, doesn't think Corbyn is anti-Semitic. Ignored.
Noam Chomsky doesn't think it's Antisemitic to deny the Holocaust.
Ah the self hating Jew trope is here is it? Wrong kind of Jew?
And he obviously didn't say that, what utter rubbish
Using "asajew" status to defend Holocaust Deniers is, in my view, not a good thing. You are welcome to take a different approach.
Chomsky: " I was asked whether the fact that a person denies the existence of gas chambers does not prove that he is an anti-Semite. I wrote back what every sane person knows: no, of course it does not".
p.s. I bet I'm one of the few non-Jewish people on here who has lived with a Jewish family, celebrated the festivals, worshipped in Synagogues, prayed at the Western Wall ...
It's an incredibly fine line. Yes, the history of the people is one of appalling suffering. Yes, Labour has a systemic problem, although I'm genuinely not sure if this is attributable to Corbyn himself.
But the real problem is that if you use hyperbole to the point where you are making your community into a 'special case' or a 'special people' then you are playing straight into the racists' hands. We are apparently all nowadays banned from mentioning what happened, thanks to Godwin and his unthinking acolytes, but singling out any people as special is precisely the start of the trouble. And Jewish people need to be extremely careful on this score.
There is racism across the board in the UK, some of it undoubtedly due to Brexit. Jewish thinkers and speakers would do well to set their complaints in that context.
John Bercow, a Jewish man, doesn't think Corbyn is Jewish. Ignored.
People in the Islamic community say Boris Johnson has an Islamophobia problem. Ignored.
Noam Chomsky, Jewish, doesn't think Corbyn is anti-Semitic. Ignored.
Let us wait for the EHRC report shall we
Yes we can. But why do you conveniently ignore that Boris Johnson lied when he said he'd do an investigation into Islamophobia?
Heard nothing from you when a Tory candidate was suspended for anti-Semitism, why not?
Boris said at the manifesto launch there will be an enquiry and as for the tory candidate I have no knowledge of it but condemn it 100% if true
He said there would be an inquiry at some point, into all kinds of discrimination, not specifically on Islamophobia as he promised. He watered it down because he knows it would be bad for him.
He's a liar - and he lied again.
If this had been Corbyn you'd be here shouting. Just don't pretend you genuinally care about this issue.
For me the matter will be resolved one way or another by the EHRC
Indeed. And not raising the heat in an election campaign.
It gets to the point though where we know full well what people actually want to happen - and that's Corbyn standing down.
Nothing he does will ever be good enough, the media have spent the last three years using racism as a means to score cheap political points and we know this because every time an Islamophobia issue appears it gets ignored. Boris Johnson is allowed to ignore the issue and put off an investigation and lie about it - yet Corbyn takes action and apologises and is villified.
We get some random Twitter user claiming there are "130" cases outstanding, despite not being on the NEC and not having the ability to get what is confidential information that he wouldn't have.
And yet Boris Johnson says he's afraid of a group of black people and gets away with it, again.
If you hate racism like I do, you'll know full well something stinks here.
Yes, something does stink here.
Yes, Jeremy Corbyn and his defenders who don't care about racism as long as it is card carrying socialists doing it.
No but there are many varieties of racism around. Corbyn has spent all his life fighting against it. Unlike Johnson.
The 'Jewish Community' would do far better to put a sock in it. They're going to get the rest pretty peed off if they keep up this hysteria.
as a Finchley & Golders Green resident I can tell you the 'Jewish Community' will never put a sock in it and anybody that asks them to is anti-semitic
IMO 98% of PB'ers and conservative activists do not give a shit about actual anti semitism just as long as the medias total internal reflection of every story distracts from Boris latest witticisms.
I abhore anti semitism having seen the horrific aftermath of the liberation of the death camps as a young child and do not connect it at all with this campaign
Labour should be ashamed of the fear they have engendered in the Jewish community but no doubt 2020 will see the ECHC report from which there will be no hiding
Lets say there is a percentage of virulent anti-semites within the Labour party, people who wish for Jews to be persecuted. Where have they been hiding for so long?
-Why would this group chose to be part of a party that has actively supported minorities within the UK? Ed Milliband was party leader for 4 years!
-Why has this so quickly become a problem under Corbyn? a man who has hardly been silent on his opinion of racism.
-Where are these high ranking anti-semites that the party is so full of according to the red-tops? So far its a percentage of non entities that within a membership of 500 000+ is below that expected in the general population.
I genuinely cannot see why people believe that under a minority labour government the persecution of Jews would become a reality. If you answer anything please let it be this:
What branch of the labour party does this antisemitism come from and what policies can you see it advocating for?
Corbyn should be asking the Chief Rabbi whether he supports Trumps decision to declare all Israeli settlements legal. He's being far too apologetic to these so called religious leaders when in truth they are people with an agenda and it's not a popular agenda unless you want the Palestinian's lives to be diminished even further.
So even if he did that makes all the anti semitism ok does it Roger?
Telling Jews to "put a sock in it" when they are genuinely in fear that they won't be safe in this country in just over two weeks time is not a great look though.
Funny that that was just posted, on Gaza - I just asked my wife, who is jewish, and she said that Mirvis was notorious among both moderate and secular jews as one of the most ultra-conservative chief rabbis ever - "the jewish equivalent of that guy from Hizb-Ut-Tahrir" (her words not mine) .
IMO 98% of PB'ers and conservative activists do not give a shit about actual anti semitism just as long as the medias total internal reflection of every story distracts from Boris latest witticisms.
I abhore anti semitism having seen the horrific aftermath of the liberation of the death camps as a young child and do not connect it at all with this campaign
Labour should be ashamed of the fear they have engendered in the Jewish community but no doubt 2020 will see the ECHC report from which there will be no hiding
Lets say there is a percentage of virulent anti-semites within the Labour party, people who wish for Jews to be persecuted. Where have they been hiding for so long?
-Why would this group chose to be part of a party that has actively supported minorities within the UK? Ed Milliband was party leader for 4 years!
-Why has this so quickly become a problem under Corbyn? a man who has hardly been silent on his opinion of racism.
-Where are these high ranking anti-semites that the party is so full of according to the red-tops? So far its a percentage of non entities that within a membership of 500 000+ is below that expected in the general population.
I genuinely cannot see why people believe that under a minority labour government the persecution of Jews would become a reality. If you answer anything please let it be this:
What branch of the labour party does this antisemitism come from and what policies can you see it advocating for?
As I have said several times this matter will be reported by the EHRC in the new year and I await their report
Great timing lads. Nothing like keeping a story rolling.
Nothing to see though, those jews just need to suck it up according to some posters here tonight
Yes. Or talk about Islamophobia, racism in football, racism against eastern Europeans, transphobia, homophobia, hate crimes of all kinds ...
They're not 'special.' Ist lesson I learned in Israel, from Jewish Israelis.
Re. the sock in it comment, this ^^^^ is the point. Don't single yourselves out as subject to particular persecution. All that does is feed the very thing you are intending to fight.
There are hate crimes and phobias across the board. It would be very, very, wise of community leaders to speak about others who also suffer similarly ...
IMO 98% of PB'ers and conservative activists do not give a shit about actual anti semitism just as long as the medias total internal reflection of every story distracts from Boris latest witticisms.
I abhore anti semitism having seen the horrific aftermath of the liberation of the death camps as a young child and do not connect it at all with this campaign
Labour should be ashamed of the fear they have engendered in the Jewish community but no doubt 2020 will see the ECHC report from which there will be no hiding
Lets say there is a percentage of virulent anti-semites within the Labour party, people who wish for Jews to be persecuted. Where have they been hiding for so long?
-Why would this group chose to be part of a party that has actively supported minorities within the UK? Ed Milliband was party leader for 4 years!
-Why has this so quickly become a problem under Corbyn? a man who has hardly been silent on his opinion of racism.
-Where are these high ranking anti-semites that the party is so full of according to the red-tops? So far its a percentage of non entities that within a membership of 500 000+ is below that expected in the general population.
I genuinely cannot see why people believe that under a minority labour government the persecution of Jews would become a reality. If you answer anything please let it be this:
What branch of the labour party does this antisemitism come from and what policies can you see it advocating for?
As I have said several times this matter will be reported by the EHRC in the new year and I await their report
So will most of us - but we know full well if it ends up being good for Corbyn there will simply be another line of attack to go towards. It's been the same since day 1
I have a facebook friend who is a vicar. His Facebook feed is full of him telling people to vote Labour; indeed that it would be unChristian not to. To be fair, his political posts are generally rather more nuanced than most of the bile that gets posted on facebook. But still, if this is what happens in the CofE it makes you wonder how some of our more, er, traditional religions deal with politics.
I think he's wrong too. The effect of religions aligning with or against a party is to narrow the scope of the religion, which should be open to people of any political persuasion. Your friend should argue his case as a private individual, not as a Christian.
How does Corbyn respond to the following line of questioning from eg. Andrew Neil on Waspi?
1) Has a woman born in 1960 suffered a monstrous injustice from the change? (Yes/no - yes equal another x billion in Monopoly money - pattern repeat for 1961 etc 2) do you accept that the Government had the right to implement such a change? (Or will you reverse it at the cost of ...?) 3) Do you believe govt in 1995 acted reasonably in length of notice it gave before change? If no what would have been “reasonable”, and not evidence of injustice?
(And bear in mind that if he tries to switch argument to 2011 then 58billion pledge is no longer relevant and promise to right historic injustice is watered down considerably)
It's very convenient timing that Corbyn has a big interview with Neil tomorrow and this is being released tonight. You'd have thought the day before the election would be a good time to put this out - as by then this will have been forgotten about.
I don't deny Labour has issues with anti-Semitism. I do deny Corbyn is anti-Semitic and if he was, something conclusive would have come out by now and yet nothing.
What would you accept as conclusive if you haven't been convinced by the mural, Hamas, Hezbollah, Raed Salah, Press TV, the wreath, the book, the allies, the irony speech, the platform sharing, the bomber campaigns, Paul Eisen, Palestine Live, Stephen Sizer, or Neturei Karta?
Are people still saying there's a Labour surge based on one poll from ICM? The ten latest Labour shares are: 34, 30, 30, 30, 28, 32, 32, 28, 29, 31. That's an average of 30%, compared to 29% previously.
Oh dear. More important than the Chief Rabbi is the fact that Johnson CANT get Brexit done by January 1st either this year or next according to Ivar Rogers. It's another Johnson lie. Newsnight tonight.
And the crocodile tears of the rightwing press on anti-semitism are truly a thing to behold. The Daily Mail, let's not forget, ran what was essentially an anti-semitic dog-whistle campaign against Ed Miliband's father, the Sun ran an anti-semitic bacon sandwich campaign on the eve of the election, and the Telegraph bringing up the rear with its tawdry dog-whistle campaign against Soros, on its front page, no less.
Just think comrades, this time next year we'll be having incandescent debates about the forthcoming end of transition with no EU FTA in sight. 😱
Yeah just like we're now having an election in which Boris looks doomed to defeat for having failed to get a Brexit deal and been forced to ask for an extension.
Corbyn should be asking the Chief Rabbi whether he supports Trumps decision to declare all Israeli settlements legal. He's being far too apologetic to these so called religious leaders when in truth they are people with an agenda and it's not a popular agenda unless you want the Palestinian's lives to be diminished even further.
Why sould the Chief Rabbi of the UK and Commonwealth have an opinion on Israeli domestic policy?
Oh come on!!!!!!!
See, I have to say that until the 'Jewish Community' began all this ranting I was sympathetic to what they were saying and very upset with the anti-semitism in Labour.
What they're actually achieving is to turn me totally against them and making begin to re-think my views on subjects like Jewish agendas and Israel.
They should belt up. If they want to talk about anti-semitism, talk about the whole of racism.
Can the moderators get rid of some of these hateful posts?
If they want to speak about faith how about they sort out antisemitism before the EHRC has to sort it out for them? Labour and the BNP the two parties needing the EHRC to sort it out.
“The creatures outside looked from Jeremy Corbyn to Nick Griffin, and from Nick Griffin to Jeremy Corbyn, and from Jeremy Corbyn to Nick Griffin again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
Could you give us some details as to how many Palestinians were 'massacred' and how much of Gaza was 'razed to the ground' ?
'Between 2,125 and 2,310 Gazans were killed and between 10,626 and 10,895 were wounded (including 3,374 children, of whom over 1,000 were left permanently disabled). Gazan civilian casualty rates estimates range between 70% by the Gaza Health Ministry, 65% by United Nations Protection Cluster by OCHA (based in part Gaza Health Ministry reports), and 36% by Israeli officials. The UN estimated that more than 7,000 homes for 10,000 families were razed, together with an additional 89,000 homes damaged, of which roughly 10,000 were severely affected by the bombing. Rebuilding costs were calculated to run from 4–6 billion dollars, over 20 years.'
I wondered when this account would come up. Do a bit of research on who this account is and the people they hang out with
Smearing Jews who volunteer their time to do something the Labour Party should be doing itself - identifying and casting out racists - is not a good look.
And the crocodile tears of the rightwing press on anti-semitism are truly a thing to behold. The Daily Mail, let's not forget, ran what was essentially an anti-semitic dog-whistle campaign against Ed Miliband's father, the Sun ran an anti-semitic bacon sandwich campaign on the eve of the election, and the Telegraph bringing up the rear with its tawdry dog-whistle campaign against Soros, on its front page, no less.
What's your cynical gloss on the views of Tom Watson, Luciana Berger, Margaret Hodge, the Jewish Chronicle, and something like 90+% of the Jewish population?
I wondered when this account would come up. Do a bit of research on who this account is and the people they hang out with
Smearing Jews who volunteer their time to do something the Labour Party should be doing itself - identifying and casting out racists - is not a good look.
I'm not smearing anyone, this account just has "interesting" views on racism, if you care to a bit of research
I don't deny Labour has issues with anti-Semitism. I do deny Corbyn is anti-Semitic and if he was, something conclusive would have come out by now and yet nothing.
What would you accept as conclusive if you haven't been convinced by the mural, Hamas, Hezbollah, Raed Salah, Press TV, the wreath, the book, the allies, the irony speech, the platform sharing, the bomber campaigns, Paul Eisen, Palestine Live, Stephen Sizer, or Neturei Karta?
'they need to learn to understand British irony' ~ Jeremy Corbyn
Comments
The 'Jewish Community' would do far better to put a sock in it. They're going to get the rest pretty peed off if they keep up this hysteria.
As for Matt Chorley gleefully trying to sell Times subscriptions from the article...yuck.
To be fair, his political posts are generally rather more nuanced than most of the bile that gets posted on facebook. But still, if this is what happens in the CofE it makes you wonder how some of our more, er, traditional religions deal with politics.
And he obviously didn't say that, what utter rubbish
He's a liar - and he lied again.
If this had been Corbyn you'd be here shouting. Just don't pretend you genuinally care about this issue.
See, I have to say that until the 'Jewish Community' began all this ranting I was sympathetic to what they were saying and very upset with the anti-semitism in Labour.
What they're actually achieving is to turn me totally against them and making begin to re-think my views on subjects like Jewish agendas and Israel.
They should belt up. If they want to talk about anti-semitism, do it in the context of talking about the whole of racism.
Still, I see that Corbyn's OK after all. He intends to make the UK public finances like Germany. Phew, that means we'll be running budget surpluses, with a legal limit of 0.35% deficit. On income tax we'll have the equivalent of a €14K personal allowance for individuals and marriage recognised in the tax system with a €28K personal allowance for married couples - even the Tories don't dare do that, but Corbyn's on the case, a true Conservative.
Of course workers might be a little miffed at Corbyn's plan to emulate Germany in terms of paying for pension insurance (9.3%) unemployment insurance (1.5%), social care insurance (up to 1.7%) and healthcare (7.3%), but they'll be pleased that employers are also forking out similar amounts.
No such thing as a free lunch, eh?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/25/labour-will-bring-uk-into-line-with-france-and-germany-says-corbyn
Persecution complex is a very, very, bad move by any community and they of all should know that. They're not 'special' cases any more than Muslims are or Romanians. So if they have an issue, which almost certainly is the case, they should set it in the context of racism throughout the country - of which there are tragically copious examples.
Because it is completely unacceptable bigotry in normal society.
Take off the tin foil hat, and have a seat.
I care believe you me I care. The impressions I had as a child from the death camps are seared into my memory. How dare you suggest I do not care
For me the matter will be resolved one way or another by the EHRC
John Bercow doesn't agree with the narrative and gets ignored.
I don't deny Labour has issues with anti-Semitism. I do deny Corbyn is anti-Semitic and if he was, something conclusive would have come out by now and yet nothing.
I do think the media uses it as a weapon to attack Labour with - which is shown because they ignore racism in other parties.
The antisemitism narrative swirling around Labour is now priced in. Anyone who was already intending to vote Labour isn't going to think again due to this piece.
Chomsky: " I was asked whether the fact that a person denies the existence of gas chambers does not prove that he is an anti-Semite. I wrote back what every sane person knows: no, of course it does not".
Great timing lads. Nothing like keeping a story rolling.
It's an incredibly fine line. Yes, the history of the people is one of appalling suffering. Yes, Labour has a systemic problem, although I'm genuinely not sure if this is attributable to Corbyn himself.
But the real problem is that if you use hyperbole to the point where you are making your community into a 'special case' or a 'special people' then you are playing straight into the racists' hands. We are apparently all nowadays banned from mentioning what happened, thanks to Godwin and his unthinking acolytes, but singling out any people as special is precisely the start of the trouble. And Jewish people need to be extremely careful on this score.
There is racism across the board in the UK, some of it undoubtedly due to Brexit. Jewish thinkers and speakers would do well to set their complaints in that context.
Don't care about the greyed text but I cannot cope with the non-collapsing quotes.
Enough!
Lovely man
-Why would this group chose to be part of a party that has actively supported minorities within the UK? Ed Milliband was party leader for 4 years!
-Why has this so quickly become a problem under Corbyn? a man who has hardly been silent on his opinion of racism.
-Where are these high ranking anti-semites that the party is so full of according to the red-tops? So far its a percentage of non entities that within a membership of 500 000+ is below that expected in the general population.
I genuinely cannot see why people believe that under a minority labour government the persecution of Jews would become a reality. If you answer anything please let it be this:
What branch of the labour party does this antisemitism come from and what policies can you see it advocating for?
They're not 'special.' Ist lesson I learned in Israel, from Jewish Israelis.
Telling Jews to "put a sock in it" when they are genuinely in fear that they won't be safe in this country in just over two weeks time is not a great look though.
Goodnight PB.
There are hate crimes and phobias across the board. It would be very, very, wise of community leaders to speak about others who also suffer similarly ...
1) Has a woman born in 1960 suffered a monstrous injustice from the change? (Yes/no - yes equal another x billion in Monopoly money - pattern repeat for 1961 etc
2) do you accept that the Government had the right to implement such a change? (Or will you reverse it at the cost of ...?)
3) Do you believe govt in 1995 acted reasonably in length of notice it gave before change? If no what would have been “reasonable”, and not evidence of injustice?
(And bear in mind that if he tries to switch argument to 2011 then 58billion pledge is no longer relevant and promise to right historic injustice is watered down considerably)
😱
Very convenient indeed.
Hang your fucking heads in shame
The ten latest Labour shares are: 34, 30, 30, 30, 28, 32, 32, 28, 29, 31.
That's an average of 30%, compared to 29% previously.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/25/johnson-sowing-seeds-of-biggest-brexit-crisis-yet-warns-sir-ivan-rogers
Note the comments on the EU's position, on Corbyn, and on those who think we can simply unwind Brexit.
Oh, wait!
https://www.ft.com/content/f5ff8704-0fd3-11ea-a225-db2f231cfeae
“The creatures outside looked from Jeremy Corbyn to Nick Griffin, and from Nick Griffin to Jeremy Corbyn, and from Jeremy Corbyn to Nick Griffin again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
Is the chief rabbit a lib dem?
https://www.mpsontwitter.co.uk/list