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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On the betting markets the debate has changed nothing

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  • Options
    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    HYUFD said:
    This is pretty much inevitable in 20 years or so.
  • Options

    kinabalu said:

    Robbie Williams is from Stoke, I believe. A member of the original Take That but people perhaps know him best for his massive solo hit, "Angels".

    "And through it all she offered me protection, a lot of love and affection ..."

    It was apparently about his mother. Not his wife or girlfriend, not any sort of romantic partner, his mother. Unusual for a pop song.

    True, Robbie is really only remembered nowadays for 'Angels'.
    And Millennium!
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,355
    edited November 2019

    The NI policy is pretty clever. 'No income tax of any kind on the first grand a month you earn'
    Very simple and clear message that appeals to low and average earners/families

    Who is going to pay for it?
    I have no idea, I didn't write the policy.
    No but someone is.. there is no magic money tree.. its the same principle as the ludicrous Lib Dem bonanza 50 billion. it doesn't exist and is more magic money tree lunacy.
    That doesn't mean it's not a clever move electorally.
    Your clever move is someone else's downright lie and unachievable to boot.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    nico67 said:

    No 10 apparently gone into panic mode as Johnson has given away one of their key manifesto pledges re NI.

    Could it be panic mode because it wasn't a manifesto pledge and now it is?
  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    TudorRose said:

    rcs1000 said:

    No it does not.

    Nobody should ever have the role regulating election material and we must have absolute free speech. Regulating election material is the preserve of dictators not free societies. Imagine the squealing there'd be if a government-appointed body was censoring material the Opposition was pointing out. Imagine if a government-appointed censor was telling Jeremy Corbyn he can't say the Tories are putting the NHS up for sale . . . because they're not.
    What about if a political party used a deep fake in an advert to show Boris Johnson advocating killing Muslims for fun?
    Surely then they can and should be done for libel afterwards.
    Oh well that's okay then.
    What's the alternative?

    I'm not OK with censors telling us what politicians can and can't say. That is the preserve of dictators not a free society.
    And yet you're happy for them to be prosecuted for libel?
    Yes.

    Censorship is saying you can't say this, we won't let you and will prevent you from doing so.
    Libel is saying you can say this, but you need to be prepared to defend what you say after the fact.
    Trouble is, they've been elected by then.
    That's the voters choice. I have more faith in free speech and voters than I do in censorship. Having Big Brother tell the Opposition what they can and can't say is not democratic - and if this gets abused it will be the Opposition feeling the brunt of it.

    Putting aside our politics and look overseas. Would you trust someone like Trump with the power to appoint people to ban what they consider to be 'fake news'? I would not.
    In spite of Trump the American system is far more democratic than our ridiculous fake democracy.
    Turnout of c55% at presidential elections doesn't strike me as especially democratic (or indicating engagement with democracy).
    Maybe, but the system of being able to elect the head of your executive directly is far superior to our ridiculous system.
    Oh, someone's not heard of the Electoral College. Awkward.
  • Options
    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    Gabs3 said:

    TudorRose said:

    rcs1000 said:

    No it does not.

    say the Tories are putting the NHS up for sale . . . because they're not.
    What about if a political party used a deep fake in an advert to show Boris Johnson advocating killing Muslims for fun?
    Surely then they can and should be done for libel afterwards.
    Oh well that's okay then.
    What's the alternative?

    I'm not OK with censors telling us what politicians can and can't say. That is the preserve of dictators not a free society.
    And yet you're happy for them to be prosecuted for libel?
    Yes.

    Censorship is saying you can't say this, we won't let you and will prevent you from doing so.
    Libel is saying you can say this, but you need to be prepared to defend what you say after the fact.
    Trouble is, they've been elected by then.
    That's the voters choice. I have more faith in free speech and voters than I do in censorship. Having Big Brother tell the Opposition what they can and can't say is not democratic - and if this gets abused it will be the Opposition feeling the brunt of it.

    Putting aside our politics and look overseas. Would you trust someone like Trump with the power to appoint people to ban what they consider to be 'fake news'? I would not.
    In spite of Trump the American system is far more democratic than our ridiculous fake democracy.
    Turnout of c55% at presidential elections doesn't strike me as especially democratic (or indicating engagement with democracy).
    Maybe, but the system of being able to elect the head of your executive directly is far superior to our ridiculous system.
    They don't elect the President directly. They elect the electoral college, who then chooses the president. That is why Trump won.

    I actually think Trump has shown why presidential systems work terribly. They couldn't get rid of him for four years despite being completely unfit for office.
    And - perhaps more importantly - getting fewer votes than your 'losing' opponent.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    No 10 apparently gone into panic mode as Johnson has given away one of their key manifesto pledges re NI.

    Could it be panic mode because it wasn't a manifesto pledge and now it is?
    Could it also not be panic mode?
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,934

    The NI policy is pretty clever. 'No income tax of any kind on the first grand a month you earn'
    Very simple and clear message that appeals to low and average earners/families

    Who is going to pay for it?
    I have no idea, I didn't write the policy.
    No but someone is.. there is no magic money tree.. its the same principle as the ludicrous Lib Dem bonanza 50 billion. it doesn't exist and is more magic money tree lunacy.
    That doesn't mean it's not a clever move electorally.
    Your clever move is someone else's downright lie and unachievable to boot.
    *shrug* I know which I think will be the more prevalent view amongst voters.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,226
    edited November 2019

    Big policy announcement from Boris

    Boris Johnson confirms Tories will raise National Insurance threshold to £12k+. Big policy announcement. Came in response to engineering worker in Teesside who asked him: 'Are these tax cuts for people like you or people like me?'

    Sounds as if the announcement could well have been different if the question and/or questioner had been different. Talk about improv from Boris! Has there ever been such a fleet and nimble approach to policy?
  • Options
    Andrew said:

    HYUFD said:
    This is pretty much inevitable in 20 years or so.
    I thought that 20 years ago. Sooner drugs are taken out of the hands of gangs and sold legally in buildings the better.
  • Options
    Andrew said:

    HYUFD said:
    This is pretty much inevitable in 20 years or so.
    I was kind of expecting this to be the big Tory reveal....
  • Options
    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900


    I thought that 20 years ago. Sooner drugs are taken out of the hands of gangs and sold legally in buildings the better.

    It was always going to take the US to move first, given their historical whip hand in driving the drugs war.

  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,934
    edited November 2019
    RobD said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    No 10 apparently gone into panic mode as Johnson has given away one of their key manifesto pledges re NI.

    Could it be panic mode because it wasn't a manifesto pledge and now it is?
    Could it also not be panic mode?
    Boris is shitting it only 18 points clear in the polls ;)
    Announcing the policy in Sedgefield = parking your tanks on Corbyns lawn
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,679
    Completely off topic but seeking some help from the PB Brains Trust...

    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    0354 514292 14-Nov
    0379 184009 14-Nov
    0566 884702 14-Nov
    0360 970443 15-Nov
    0570 017197 15-Nov
    0584 530131 16-Nov
    0314 797274 18-Nov
    0531 533409 18-Nov
    0565 013029 18-Nov
    0315 996818 19-Nov
    0330 399645 19-Nov
    0466 727405 19-Nov
    0234 395202 20-Nov
    0320 628275 20-Nov
    0438 567548 20-Nov
    0531 189698 20-Nov

    Anyone else seeing anything like this? Any suggestions as to what to do? I am loath to answer them in case that just encourages more. On the other hand I'd like them to stop.

    Any thoughts/help much appreciate. Apols for the off-topic request.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001

    rcs1000 said:

    No it does not.

    Nobody should ever have the role regulating election material and we must have absolute free speech. Regulating election material is the preserve of dictators not free societies. Imagine the squealing there'd be if a government-appointed body was censoring material the Opposition was pointing out. Imagine if a government-appointed censor was telling Jeremy Corbyn he can't say the Tories are putting the NHS up for sale . . . because they're not.
    What about if a political party used a deep fake in an advert to show Boris Johnson advocating killing Muslims for fun?
    Surely then they can and should be done for libel afterwards.
    Oh well that's okay then.
    What's the alternative?

    I'm not OK with censors telling us what politicians can and can't say. That is the preserve of dictators not a free society.
    And yet you're happy for them to be prosecuted for libel?
    Yes.

    Censorship is saying you can't say this, we won't let you and will prevent you from doing so.
    Libel is saying you can say this, but you need to be prepared to defend what you say after the fact.
    Only people can sue for libel, so how do you deal with an advertisment claiming that Liberal Democrat policy is for the forced sterilisation of redheads?

    Or perhaps an advert that claims to be from the Liberal Democrats. We all saw the "Muslims for Hillary" advert that ran last year in the US, which was actually from the Trump campaign.

    There are laws and regulation in normal advertising. Simply, Ford can't put out an advert that claims to be from Mercedes: "Our new A Class skips safety features to deliver you a more exciting experience!" But are we saying that that would be OK in political advertising?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981

    kinabalu said:

    I really want to see a labour party regaining its centre left position and see the end of Corbynism

    Will a centre left Labour party under, say, Yvette Cooper have a big big chance of getting your vote at the GE after this one?
    I cannot say at this stage but Corbyn would have no chance at anytime, ever
    Mr Eek, if Yvette Cooper were in charge of Labour, I would be most likely voting Labour for the first time ever at this election. Jeremy Corbyn is very likely ensuring a very right wing CINO government gets a majority. If no-deal goes through it is his incompetence as LoTO that is largely to blame.
    ?? I didn't comment there as I couldn't see BigG ever voting Labour.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,226

    No. He needs to be beaten so severely that Labour pull back from the precipice and deal with their unelectability and antisemitism issues.

    But you're another saying this who would never vote Labour, am I right?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,679

    The NI policy is pretty clever. 'No income tax of any kind on the first grand a month you earn'
    Very simple and clear message that appeals to low and average earners/families

    Who is going to pay for it?
    Quite a lot of bills appeared to have been sent to some fellow called 'Laffer'
    Have they thrown him a curve bill?
  • Options
    BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    RobD said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    No 10 apparently gone into panic mode as Johnson has given away one of their key manifesto pledges re NI.

    Could it be panic mode because it wasn't a manifesto pledge and now it is?
    Could it also not be panic mode?
    Boris is shitting it only 18 points clear in the polls ;)
    Announcing the policy in Sedgefield = parking your tanks on Corbyns lawn
    I tend to think the Midlands will be where the Tories make huge gains. I'm less certain about the North though, wonder if Sedgefield might be overreaching.
  • Options

    Completely off topic but seeking some help from the PB Brains Trust...

    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    0354 514292 14-Nov
    0379 184009 14-Nov
    0566 884702 14-Nov
    0360 970443 15-Nov
    0570 017197 15-Nov
    0584 530131 16-Nov
    0314 797274 18-Nov
    0531 533409 18-Nov
    0565 013029 18-Nov
    0315 996818 19-Nov
    0330 399645 19-Nov
    0466 727405 19-Nov
    0234 395202 20-Nov
    0320 628275 20-Nov
    0438 567548 20-Nov
    0531 189698 20-Nov

    Anyone else seeing anything like this? Any suggestions as to what to do? I am loath to answer them in case that just encourages more. On the other hand I'd like them to stop.

    Any thoughts/help much appreciate. Apols for the off-topic request.

    They could be spoofed numbers from a similar source, scammers from here or abroad. I would contact your phone company and tell them about the issue.
  • Options
    Andrew said:


    I thought that 20 years ago. Sooner drugs are taken out of the hands of gangs and sold legally in buildings the better.

    It was always going to take the US to move first, given their historical whip hand in driving the drugs war.

    I'm surprised and disappointed it has taken that actually, the Dutch moved decades ago and then not much has happened since.

    When you compare over the past 20 years the snails pace that introducing sanity into drugs debate has progressed at with the rather rapid pace relatively we have dealt with marriage equality - from being unthinkable, to lets have civil partnerships, to lets push for this, to its now legal, to the idea of it not being legal is unthinkable extremism . . . not just here but across the west now.

    I'm glad marriage equality has been dealt with, but I'm surprised we've not had any comparable sensible movement on drugs given the evidence both of what works and what has failed is completely overwhelming.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,311
    kinabalu said:

    Endillion said:

    No, he needs to lose badly enough that he is removed as Labour leader and replaced with someone credible. That means in turn the Tories will have to focus on real issues when selecting Johnson's replacement. The lack of a proper Opposition is killing our politics.

    He's gone, I'm sure, if it's PM Johnson with a majority after the GE, regardless of margin. And yes, I too want a credible replacement and to see the end of some of the baggage. However, I do NOT want to see reversion to a soggy 'soft left' that aspires to nothing more than timid tinkering to the Thatcher/Blair consensus. I want the radical edge to remain.
    LOL he writes from his Hampstead pad.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited November 2019
    duplicate post - deleted.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    There is a campaign to get Students at Brunel University to stay long enough to vote in Uxbridge

    https://medium.com/@tswriting/how-brunel-university-could-dominate-the-uk-general-election-ecfb0759355d

  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,934
    edited November 2019

    Completely off topic but seeking some help from the PB Brains Trust...

    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    0354 514292 14-Nov
    0379 184009 14-Nov
    0566 884702 14-Nov
    0360 970443 15-Nov
    0570 017197 15-Nov
    0584 530131 16-Nov
    0314 797274 18-Nov
    0531 533409 18-Nov
    0565 013029 18-Nov
    0315 996818 19-Nov
    0330 399645 19-Nov
    0466 727405 19-Nov
    0234 395202 20-Nov
    0320 628275 20-Nov
    0438 567548 20-Nov
    0531 189698 20-Nov

    Anyone else seeing anything like this? Any suggestions as to what to do? I am loath to answer them in case that just encourages more. On the other hand I'd like them to stop.

    Any thoughts/help much appreciate. Apols for the off-topic request.

    I usually go 'weird' if and when I get a run of these type of calls (it's usually 'windows technical department') and pick up and whisper 'I'm gonna put a dead bird on you' then hang up or something of that ilk

    Unfortunately it will be an overseas based scam, not easily blocked unless you set up something like caller approval required
  • Options
    Reading East was mentioned here recently in the context of marginal seats. I have today been visited by the Conservative candidate, the first time in many years I can recall door-to-door canvassing from any party in my area. A stark contrast to Rob Wilson in 2017, who looked as if he had lost interest long before polling day.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    eek said:

    There is a campaign to get Students at Brunel University to stay long enough to vote in Uxbridge

    https://medium.com/@tswriting/how-brunel-university-could-dominate-the-uk-general-election-ecfb0759355d

    They want the university to change term time to disadvantage a particular party? Can't see that happening.
  • Options
    I've now tweaked my constituency modelling predictor for England to get rid of a few earlier gremlins. If anyone wants results for named individual constituencies for betting purposes I can share them here.

    Methodology:
    The model takes as its base the known split of GE 2017 voters for leave and remain by political party using the YouGov mega poll of 11,000 of late October, which had VI of Con 36%, Lab 22%, LD 19%. It imputes a 2016 referendum result for each constituency which I compare with the actual result. If the 2016 leave (say) vote is understated then I reduce pro rata the number of remain voters in the constituency by party group to match the actual referendum result and vice versa. [i.e. if it predicts a leave vote of 60% and the actual vote for leave was 70% then I would reduce the number of remain voters by 25% for each party and transfer them to leave. If the remain vote was understated then I would do the same calculations to reduce leave voters]. Having imputed a subdivision of voting by referendum within 2017 party group in each constituency which reconciles to both the 2017 GE result and the 2016 referendum result in that constituency, I then apply the cross breaks in the YouGov mega poll that show us what % each group will vote for in 2019. (For example, that 47% of 2017 Conservative Remainers will vote Con in 2019.) I then make an adjustment for those who did not vote in one or both of the 2016 and 2017 elections, this group by deduction from the YouGov tables, applied to scale up the relevant party's predicted votes in each constituency, which increases Lab and LD by more than Con.

    Result:
    Out of 533 English Constituencies, the Conservatives have a net gain of 94 to end up with 390.

    Discussion:
    There is no tactical voting applied in the model and it is still based on the BXP and Greens standing in every constituency. There are 51 seats in the model where the Cons are predicted to win the seat but the combined Lab+LD+Green total is at least 1.5 times the combined Con+BXP total.
    Obviously, polls have changed since late October. Labour have since narrowed the Con lead from 14% to 12% although the LDs have gone backwards big time.

    Conclusion:
    As polls now stand, even allowing for heavy and efficient tactical voting, I would expect the Conservatives to pick up at least 330 English seats (and perhaps 350+ overall adding in Wales and Scotland).
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981

    Completely off topic but seeking some help from the PB Brains Trust...

    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    0354 514292 14-Nov
    0379 184009 14-Nov
    0566 884702 14-Nov
    0360 970443 15-Nov
    0570 017197 15-Nov
    0584 530131 16-Nov
    0314 797274 18-Nov
    0531 533409 18-Nov
    0565 013029 18-Nov
    0315 996818 19-Nov
    0330 399645 19-Nov
    0466 727405 19-Nov
    0234 395202 20-Nov
    0320 628275 20-Nov
    0438 567548 20-Nov
    0531 189698 20-Nov

    Anyone else seeing anything like this? Any suggestions as to what to do? I am loath to answer them in case that just encourages more. On the other hand I'd like them to stop.

    Any thoughts/help much appreciate. Apols for the off-topic request.

    I usually go 'weird' if and when I get a run of these type of calls (it's usually 'windows technical department') and pick up and whisper 'I'm gonna put a dead bird on you' then hang up or something of that ilk
    The one I got today - to the landline my backup ADSL line is attached to (I actually don't even know the number on the line) was from "Amazon" about a £35 Amazon Prime charge.

    As he didn't know my (or any other) name and I'm already a Prime member I treated it with the respect it deserved and kept him on the line until he got fed up and put the phone down.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    No it does not.

    Nobody should ever have the role regulating election material and we must have absolute free speech. Regulating election material is the preserve of dictators not free societies. Imagine the squealing there'd be if a government-appointed body was censoring material the Opposition was pointing out. Imagine if a government-appointed censor was telling Jeremy Corbyn he can't say the Tories are putting the NHS up for sale . . . because they're not.
    What about if a political party used a deep fake in an advert to show Boris Johnson advocating killing Muslims for fun?
    Surely then they can and should be done for libel afterwards.
    Oh well that's okay then.
    What's the alternative?

    I'm not OK with censors telling us what politicians can and can't say. That is the preserve of dictators not a free society.
    And yet you're happy for them to be prosecuted for libel?
    Yes.

    Censorship is saying you can't say this, we won't let you and will prevent you from doing so.
    Libel is saying you can say this, but you need to be prepared to defend what you say after the fact.
    Only people can sue for libel, so how do you deal with an advertisment claiming that Liberal Democrat policy is for the forced sterilisation of redheads?

    Or perhaps an advert that claims to be from the Liberal Democrats. We all saw the "Muslims for Hillary" advert that ran last year in the US, which was actually from the Trump campaign.

    There are laws and regulation in normal advertising. Simply, Ford can't put out an advert that claims to be from Mercedes: "Our new A Class skips safety features to deliver you a more exciting experience!" But are we saying that that would be OK in political advertising?
    You deal with that by having vigorous free speech, instant rebuttal and having Swinson etc say what is and is not her policy. If people want to put out that Swinson is for the murder of squirrels she can say she is not ;)

    Normal advertising is not as important or at risk of abuse as political free speech. The head of Ford is not appointing people to the Advertising Standards Agency. Where political speech is restricted across the globe it does not end well.

    I would rather put my faith in the people to see through political bullshit than to have some political censor who could be polticised and abused define what is and is not bullshit.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,679

    Completely off topic but seeking some help from the PB Brains Trust...

    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    0354 514292 14-Nov
    0379 184009 14-Nov
    0566 884702 14-Nov
    0360 970443 15-Nov
    0570 017197 15-Nov
    0584 530131 16-Nov
    0314 797274 18-Nov
    0531 533409 18-Nov
    0565 013029 18-Nov
    0315 996818 19-Nov
    0330 399645 19-Nov
    0466 727405 19-Nov
    0234 395202 20-Nov
    0320 628275 20-Nov
    0438 567548 20-Nov
    0531 189698 20-Nov

    Anyone else seeing anything like this? Any suggestions as to what to do? I am loath to answer them in case that just encourages more. On the other hand I'd like them to stop.

    Any thoughts/help much appreciate. Apols for the off-topic request.

    They could be spoofed numbers from a similar source, scammers from here or abroad. I would contact your phone company and tell them about the issue.
    Ok thanks.

    I am convinced they are all from the same source, because they always follow the same pattern, hanging up as soon as our voicemail kicks in. The STD codes are not any that I recognise or can find in the UK and if they were from abroad I'd expect them to begin with 00.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,934
    Brom said:

    RobD said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    No 10 apparently gone into panic mode as Johnson has given away one of their key manifesto pledges re NI.

    Could it be panic mode because it wasn't a manifesto pledge and now it is?
    Could it also not be panic mode?
    Boris is shitting it only 18 points clear in the polls ;)
    Announcing the policy in Sedgefield = parking your tanks on Corbyns lawn
    I tend to think the Midlands will be where the Tories make huge gains. I'm less certain about the North though, wonder if Sedgefield might be overreaching.
    Sedgefield will fall if he wins by 10% imo. It's a achievable under the get Brexit done umbrella
  • Options

    I've now tweaked my constituency modelling predictor for England to get rid of a few earlier gremlins. If anyone wants results for named individual constituencies for betting purposes I can share them here.

    Methodology:
    The model takes as its base the known split of GE 2017 voters for leave and remain by political party using the YouGov mega poll of 11,000 of late October, which had VI of Con 36%, Lab 22%, LD 19%. It imputes a 2016 referendum result for each constituency which I compare with the actual result. If the 2016 leave (say) vote is understated then I reduce pro rata the number of remain voters in the constituency by party group to match the actual referendum result and vice versa. [i.e. if it predicts a leave vote of 60% and the actual vote for leave was 70% then I would reduce the number of remain voters by 25% for each party and transfer them to leave. If the remain vote was understated then I would do the same calculations to reduce leave voters]. Having imputed a subdivision of voting by referendum within 2017 party group in each constituency which reconciles to both the 2017 GE result and the 2016 referendum result in that constituency, I then apply the cross breaks in the YouGov mega poll that show us what % each group will vote for in 2019. (For example, that 47% of 2017 Conservative Remainers will vote Con in 2019.) I then make an adjustment for those who did not vote in one or both of the 2016 and 2017 elections, this group by deduction from the YouGov tables, applied to scale up the relevant party's predicted votes in each constituency, which increases Lab and LD by more than Con.

    Result:
    Out of 533 English Constituencies, the Conservatives have a net gain of 94 to end up with 390.

    Discussion:
    There is no tactical voting applied in the model and it is still based on the BXP and Greens standing in every constituency. There are 51 seats in the model where the Cons are predicted to win the seat but the combined Lab+LD+Green total is at least 1.5 times the combined Con+BXP total.
    Obviously, polls have changed since late October. Labour have since narrowed the Con lead from 14% to 12% although the LDs have gone backwards big time.

    Conclusion:
    As polls now stand, even allowing for heavy and efficient tactical voting, I would expect the Conservatives to pick up at least 330 English seats (and perhaps 350+ overall adding in Wales and Scotland).

    Guessing with method!
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    edited November 2019
    RobD said:

    eek said:

    There is a campaign to get Students at Brunel University to stay long enough to vote in Uxbridge

    https://medium.com/@tswriting/how-brunel-university-could-dominate-the-uk-general-election-ecfb0759355d

    They want the university to change term time to disadvantage a particular party? Can't see that happening.
    Nope they want students to register to vote and either hang around a few days and vote on the 12th or use their postal vote.

    I can't see it myself but just mentioned it as someone who understands these type of campaigns highlighted it to me.
  • Options
    Fantastic first brochure from Lib Dems in the post.

    Spelt their candidate's name wrong in one of the BIG headings "Dorrel" but right in other parts of the brochure "Dorrell".

    "improve public services in buckinghamshire" using lower case (small but annoying).

    Said "Stephen is an experience MP" - what sort of experience he's offering is unclear...

    "As Prime Minister, Jo Swinson will work every day...." - PM, really?

    And a bar chart using the 2019 Euro elections headlined Labour can't win here showing Brexit Party on 34%, LDs on 27%, Tories on 11% and Labour on 7% with an arrow saying "Labour will never win here". Neither can the Tories presumably on that logic? Also small factual issue - Labour won the seat in 1945 and 1964.

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    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    RobD said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    No 10 apparently gone into panic mode as Johnson has given away one of their key manifesto pledges re NI.

    Could it be panic mode because it wasn't a manifesto pledge and now it is?
    Could it also not be panic mode?
    Boris is shitting it only 18 points clear in the polls ;)
    Announcing the policy in Sedgefield = parking your tanks on Corbyns lawn
    Sedgefield is an absolute hornet's nest of Blairites. I'm sure Corbyn would be delighted for the ultimate in red Tories to come home.
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    The Sondland testimony is not going well for The Donald.
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    148grss148grss Posts: 3,679

    Andrew said:


    I thought that 20 years ago. Sooner drugs are taken out of the hands of gangs and sold legally in buildings the better.

    It was always going to take the US to move first, given their historical whip hand in driving the drugs war.

    I'm surprised and disappointed it has taken that actually, the Dutch moved decades ago and then not much has happened since.

    When you compare over the past 20 years the snails pace that introducing sanity into drugs debate has progressed at with the rather rapid pace relatively we have dealt with marriage equality - from being unthinkable, to lets have civil partnerships, to lets push for this, to its now legal, to the idea of it not being legal is unthinkable extremism . . . not just here but across the west now.

    I'm glad marriage equality has been dealt with, but I'm surprised we've not had any comparable sensible movement on drugs given the evidence both of what works and what has failed is completely overwhelming.
    I mean, the reason is obviously racism. Like, weed and the culture around it is so tied up with blackness and criminalising black people for something that is not a big deal resonates both in the UK and the US.

    The reason LGBT rights, including equal marriage, has become more accepted is anyone randomly can just be gay. The biggest thing was people getting to know someone, liking them, loving them as family, and then finding out they're gay. It is hard to allow preconceived biases and stereotypes to take hold when you find out your son is gay, for instance.

    The same can't be said of race; people don't get to know you and then you spring on them by surprise that you're not white (although arguably you can online).
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,997

    Completely off topic but seeking some help from the PB Brains Trust...

    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    0354 514292 14-Nov
    0379 184009 14-Nov
    0566 884702 14-Nov
    0360 970443 15-Nov
    0570 017197 15-Nov
    0584 530131 16-Nov
    0314 797274 18-Nov
    0531 533409 18-Nov
    0565 013029 18-Nov
    0315 996818 19-Nov
    0330 399645 19-Nov
    0466 727405 19-Nov
    0234 395202 20-Nov
    0320 628275 20-Nov
    0438 567548 20-Nov
    0531 189698 20-Nov

    Anyone else seeing anything like this? Any suggestions as to what to do? I am loath to answer them in case that just encourages more. On the other hand I'd like them to stop.

    Any thoughts/help much appreciate. Apols for the off-topic request.

    Yes; we have batches of them like that. I answer them and recently they tell that something or other is happening to my Amazon Prime account, which I don't have.
    As you suggest there's no point win blocking because the b@£$%^s use a variant of different numbers.
    They are all automated too; at least in the days of spurious Microsoft calls one could have, if bored, innocent fun pretending to follow the instructions.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited November 2019

    Completely off topic but seeking some help from the PB Brains Trust...

    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    0354 514292 14-Nov
    0379 184009 14-Nov
    0566 884702 14-Nov
    0360 970443 15-Nov
    0570 017197 15-Nov
    0584 530131 16-Nov
    0314 797274 18-Nov
    0531 533409 18-Nov
    0565 013029 18-Nov
    0315 996818 19-Nov
    0330 399645 19-Nov
    0466 727405 19-Nov
    0234 395202 20-Nov
    0320 628275 20-Nov
    0438 567548 20-Nov
    0531 189698 20-Nov

    Anyone else seeing anything like this? Any suggestions as to what to do? I am loath to answer them in case that just encourages more. On the other hand I'd like them to stop.

    Any thoughts/help much appreciate. Apols for the off-topic request.

    They could be spoofed numbers from a similar source, scammers from here or abroad. I would contact your phone company and tell them about the issue.
    Ok thanks.

    I am convinced they are all from the same source, because they always follow the same pattern, hanging up as soon as our voicemail kicks in. The STD codes are not any that I recognise or can find in the UK and if they were from abroad I'd expect them to begin with 00.
    Apparently there is a huge trade in establishing lists of active phone numbers. There are "underground" services that just fire out random combinations of numbers 24/7 and see which hit an active number. Then collate all this data and sell it to scammers.
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    Completely off topic but seeking some help from the PB Brains Trust...

    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    0354 514292 14-Nov
    0379 184009 14-Nov
    0566 884702 14-Nov
    0360 970443 15-Nov
    0570 017197 15-Nov
    0584 530131 16-Nov
    0314 797274 18-Nov
    0531 533409 18-Nov
    0565 013029 18-Nov
    0315 996818 19-Nov
    0330 399645 19-Nov
    0466 727405 19-Nov
    0234 395202 20-Nov
    0320 628275 20-Nov
    0438 567548 20-Nov
    0531 189698 20-Nov

    Anyone else seeing anything like this? Any suggestions as to what to do? I am loath to answer them in case that just encourages more. On the other hand I'd like them to stop.

    Any thoughts/help much appreciate. Apols for the off-topic request.

    They could be spoofed numbers from a similar source, scammers from here or abroad. I would contact your phone company and tell them about the issue.
    Ok thanks.

    I am convinced they are all from the same source, because they always follow the same pattern, hanging up as soon as our voicemail kicks in. The STD codes are not any that I recognise or can find in the UK and if they were from abroad I'd expect them to begin with 00.
    As far as I knew 03 and 05 are non-geographic numbers but unlike 08 numbers they would be included within your minutes plan.

    I've never heard of an 04 number before.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    Completely off topic but seeking some help from the PB Brains Trust...

    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    0354 514292 14-Nov
    0379 184009 14-Nov
    0566 884702 14-Nov
    0360 970443 15-Nov
    0570 017197 15-Nov
    0584 530131 16-Nov
    0314 797274 18-Nov
    0531 533409 18-Nov
    0565 013029 18-Nov
    0315 996818 19-Nov
    0330 399645 19-Nov
    0466 727405 19-Nov
    0234 395202 20-Nov
    0320 628275 20-Nov
    0438 567548 20-Nov
    0531 189698 20-Nov

    Anyone else seeing anything like this? Any suggestions as to what to do? I am loath to answer them in case that just encourages more. On the other hand I'd like them to stop.

    Any thoughts/help much appreciate. Apols for the off-topic request.

    They could be spoofed numbers from a similar source, scammers from here or abroad. I would contact your phone company and tell them about the issue.
    Ok thanks.

    I am convinced they are all from the same source, because they always follow the same pattern, hanging up as soon as our voicemail kicks in. The STD codes are not any that I recognise or can find in the UK and if they were from abroad I'd expect them to begin with 00.
    Those look like non-geographic area codes

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-geographic_telephone_numbers_in_the_United_Kingdom
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,283
    eek said:

    Completely off topic but seeking some help from the PB Brains Trust...

    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    0354 514292 14-Nov
    0379 184009 14-Nov
    0566 884702 14-Nov
    0360 970443 15-Nov
    0570 017197 15-Nov
    0584 530131 16-Nov
    0314 797274 18-Nov
    0531 533409 18-Nov
    0565 013029 18-Nov
    0315 996818 19-Nov
    0330 399645 19-Nov
    0466 727405 19-Nov
    0234 395202 20-Nov
    0320 628275 20-Nov
    0438 567548 20-Nov
    0531 189698 20-Nov

    Anyone else seeing anything like this? Any suggestions as to what to do? I am loath to answer them in case that just encourages more. On the other hand I'd like them to stop.

    Any thoughts/help much appreciate. Apols for the off-topic request.

    I usually go 'weird' if and when I get a run of these type of calls (it's usually 'windows technical department') and pick up and whisper 'I'm gonna put a dead bird on you' then hang up or something of that ilk
    The one I got today - to the landline my backup ADSL line is attached to (I actually don't even know the number on the line) was from "Amazon" about a £35 Amazon Prime charge.

    As he didn't know my (or any other) name and I'm already a Prime member I treated it with the respect it deserved and kept him on the line until he got fed up and put the phone down.
    I find “do you want to be put through to our IT department?” is the best reply. There is usually a pause and then some sort of open question like “what?” or “excuse me?”. Asking again whether they want to speak to the IT department is usually enough to get them to hang up and not ring back.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited November 2019
    Update - As reported earlier no lib dem propaganda through the door today, instead two nice young student types at my door waving a dodgy barchart.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    No it does not.

    Nobody should ever have the role regulating election material and we must have absolute free speech. Regulating election material is the preserve of dictators not free societies. Imagine the squealing there'd be if a government-appointed body was censoring material the Opposition was pointing out. Imagine if a government-appointed censor was telling Jeremy Corbyn he can't say the Tories are putting the NHS up for sale . . . because they're not.
    What about if a political party used a deep fake in an advert to show Boris Johnson advocating killing Muslims for fun?
    Surely then they can and should be done for libel afterwards.
    Oh well that's okay then.
    What's the alternative?

    I'm not OK with censors telling us what politicians can and can't say. That is the preserve of dictators not a free society.
    And yet you're happy for them to be prosecuted for libel?
    Yes.

    Censorship is saying you can't say this, we won't let you and will prevent you from doing so.
    Libel is saying you can say this, but you need to be prepared to defend what you say after the fact.
    Only people can sue for libel, so how do you deal with an advertisment claiming that Liberal Democrat policy is for the forced sterilisation of redheads?

    Or perhaps an advert that claims to be from the Liberal Democrats. We all saw the "Muslims for Hillary" advert that ran last year in the US, which was actually from the Trump campaign.

    There are laws and regulation in normal advertising. Simply, Ford can't put out an advert that claims to be from Mercedes: "Our new A Class skips safety features to deliver you a more exciting experience!" But are we saying that that would be OK in political advertising?
    It's perfectly legal - I have ASA rulings that say you can put anything or any promise on a political advert and they cannot do anything about it.
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    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    eek said:

    There is a campaign to get Students at Brunel University to stay long enough to vote in Uxbridge

    https://medium.com/@tswriting/how-brunel-university-could-dominate-the-uk-general-election-ecfb0759355d

    It says that the students need to vote tactically to make a difference but, as far as I could tell, it doesn't say who they should vote for.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,311
    eek said:

    Completely off topic but seeking some help from the PB Brains Trust...

    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    0354 514292 14-Nov
    0379 184009 14-Nov
    0566 884702 14-Nov
    0360 970443 15-Nov
    0570 017197 15-Nov
    0584 530131 16-Nov
    0314 797274 18-Nov
    0531 533409 18-Nov
    0565 013029 18-Nov
    0315 996818 19-Nov
    0330 399645 19-Nov
    0466 727405 19-Nov
    0234 395202 20-Nov
    0320 628275 20-Nov
    0438 567548 20-Nov
    0531 189698 20-Nov

    Anyone else seeing anything like this? Any suggestions as to what to do? I am loath to answer them in case that just encourages more. On the other hand I'd like them to stop.

    Any thoughts/help much appreciate. Apols for the off-topic request.

    I usually go 'weird' if and when I get a run of these type of calls (it's usually 'windows technical department') and pick up and whisper 'I'm gonna put a dead bird on you' then hang up or something of that ilk
    The one I got today - to the landline my backup ADSL line is attached to (I actually don't even know the number on the line) was from "Amazon" about a £35 Amazon Prime charge.

    As he didn't know my (or any other) name and I'm already a Prime member I treated it with the respect it deserved and kept him on the line until he got fed up and put the phone down.
    The worst thing (for them) I find you can do to those "we heard you'd had an accident" calls is to say "YES I HAVE! GREAT! HOW MUCH CAN YOU GET ME??"

    To which they invariably put you on hold and then disconnect. Ideally I would somehow get them to stay on the line longer.
  • Options
    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    Update - As reported earlier no lib dem propaganda through the door today, instead two nice young student types at my door waving a dodgy barchart.

    They should be careful; you can put someone's eye out doing that.
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    Mr. Urquhart, how's that going to work for people who get paid per job? Especially those who work internationally and currency effects can lead to payment going up or down a bit randomly?
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,679

    Completely off topic but seeking some help from the PB Brains Trust...

    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    0354 514292 14-Nov
    0379 184009 14-Nov
    0566 884702 14-Nov
    0360 970443 15-Nov
    0570 017197 15-Nov
    0584 530131 16-Nov
    0314 797274 18-Nov
    0531 533409 18-Nov
    0565 013029 18-Nov
    0315 996818 19-Nov
    0330 399645 19-Nov
    0466 727405 19-Nov
    0234 395202 20-Nov
    0320 628275 20-Nov
    0438 567548 20-Nov
    0531 189698 20-Nov

    Anyone else seeing anything like this? Any suggestions as to what to do? I am loath to answer them in case that just encourages more. On the other hand I'd like them to stop.

    Any thoughts/help much appreciate. Apols for the off-topic request.

    I usually go 'weird' if and when I get a run of these type of calls (it's usually 'windows technical department') and pick up and whisper 'I'm gonna put a dead bird on you' then hang up or something of that ilk

    Unfortunately it will be an overseas based scam, not easily blocked unless you set up something like caller approval required
    I suspect you're right. I just wonder if I answer one and don't fall for it they will cross me off the list.

    Oddly enough they seemed to begin around the start of the GE campaign. I half wondered whether they were part of some CCHQ/Momentum (you choose) black ops campaign. But given I live in one of the safest Tory seats in the country my vote is, of course, close to worthless.
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    Mr. Scrapheap, if the Lib Dems want to hire me as a proofreader, my services are very reasonably priced.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,283

    Update - As reported earlier no lib dem propaganda through the door today, instead two nice young student types at my door waving a dodgy barchart.

    Your LibDems are soft if they don’t deliver after 3 pm
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288

    Completely off topic but seeking some help from the PB Brains Trust...

    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    0354 514292 14-Nov
    0379 184009 14-Nov
    0566 884702 14-Nov
    0360 970443 15-Nov
    0570 017197 15-Nov
    0584 530131 16-Nov
    0314 797274 18-Nov
    0531 533409 18-Nov
    0565 013029 18-Nov
    0315 996818 19-Nov
    0330 399645 19-Nov
    0466 727405 19-Nov
    0234 395202 20-Nov
    0320 628275 20-Nov
    0438 567548 20-Nov
    0531 189698 20-Nov

    Anyone else seeing anything like this? Any suggestions as to what to do? I am loath to answer them in case that just encourages more. On the other hand I'd like them to stop.

    Any thoughts/help much appreciate. Apols for the off-topic request.

    Yes; we have batches of them like that. I answer them and recently they tell that something or other is happening to my Amazon Prime account, which I don't have.
    As you suggest there's no point win blocking because the b@£$%^s use a variant of different numbers.
    They are all automated too; at least in the days of spurious Microsoft calls one could have, if bored, innocent fun pretending to follow the instructions.
    starting up the machine, waiting for it to load, logging on then after a while adding I can see the Apple logo now.
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited November 2019


    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    You can't do much with the numbers themselves - they are spoofed, can change every time, and coming in from voip accounts.

    One solution is a phone that does a challenge to incoming calls "press X to continue" (mine is a BT 8500, but there are plenty others). This works perfectly against automated callcentre junk calls, because they use autodiallers that can't get past it, so from your end the phone simply never rings unless it's a human dialling. You can whitelist known numbers, and mobiles if you want, so they aren't hassled by it.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited November 2019
    Talking of scams....one I got recently, a text from EE claiming they hadn't managed to take the money for this months bill and to log onto the website to check direct debit details were correct, with a link to click which took you to phishing site that looked identical to the real EE site. It was rather convincing looking scam, albeit for the URL not being correct.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    Boris caught lying again - and this time it's money so people will care about it.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,283
    Anorak said:

    What a con! Given inflation and time it will eventually reach any number you care to think of.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    kinabalu said:

    No. He needs to be beaten so severely that Labour pull back from the precipice and deal with their unelectability and antisemitism issues.

    But you're another saying this who would never vote Labour, am I right?
    He just wants to ensure that when the tories are finally beaten the incoming labour government doesn’t inconvenience him too much.
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    I've now tweaked my constituency modelling predictor for England to get rid of a few earlier gremlins. If anyone wants results for named individual constituencies for betting purposes I can share them here.

    Methodology:
    The model takes as its base the known split of GE 2017 voters for leave and remain by political party using the YouGov mega poll of 11,000 of late October, which had VI of Con 36%, Lab 22%, LD 19%. It imputes a 2016 referendum result for each constituency which I compare with the actual result. If the 2016 leave (say) vote is understated then I reduce pro rata the number of remain voters in the constituency by party group to match the actual referendum result and vice versa. [i.e. if it predicts a leave vote of 60% and the actual vote for leave was 70% then I would reduce the number of remain voters by 25% for each party and transfer them to leave. If the remain vote was understated then I would do the same calculations to reduce leave voters]. Having imputed a subdivision of voting by referendum within 2017 party group in each constituency which reconciles to both the 2017 GE result and the 2016 referendum result in that constituency, I then apply the cross breaks in the YouGov mega poll that show us what % each group will vote for in 2019. (For example, that 47% of 2017 Conservative Remainers will vote Con in 2019.) I then make an adjustment for those who did not vote in one or both of the 2016 and 2017 elections, this group by deduction from the YouGov tables, applied to scale up the relevant party's predicted votes in each constituency, which increases Lab and LD by more than Con.

    Result:
    Out of 533 English Constituencies, the Conservatives have a net gain of 94 to end up with 390.

    Discussion:
    There is no tactical voting applied in the model and it is still based on the BXP and Greens standing in every constituency. There are 51 seats in the model where the Cons are predicted to win the seat but the combined Lab+LD+Green total is at least 1.5 times the combined Con+BXP total.
    Obviously, polls have changed since late October. Labour have since narrowed the Con lead from 14% to 12% although the LDs have gone backwards big time.

    Conclusion:
    As polls now stand, even allowing for heavy and efficient tactical voting, I would expect the Conservatives to pick up at least 330 English seats (and perhaps 350+ overall adding in Wales and Scotland).

    Guessing with method!
    The opposite. Predictions from polls using UNS is guessing. This is a prediction from polls informed by where swings will likely occur based on leave/remain splits in individual constituencies. The only guessing is how tactical voting might impact, which is not part of the model.
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    kinabalu said:

    No. He needs to be beaten so severely that Labour pull back from the precipice and deal with their unelectability and antisemitism issues.

    But you're another saying this who would never vote Labour, am I right?
    I've voted Labour in the past.

    I want there to be an electable opposition as its not good for the governance of the country for the opposition to be unelectable.
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    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited November 2019
    To BenPointer - Yes, they could be using any types of method for spoofing - making up non-working numbers, or very distant area codes. This new info from which.com is useful :

    "How do the scammers do it? For the problem to have become so widespread, it’s fair to assume that number spoofing has become the weapon of choice for lots of scammers around the world.

    But how do they go about it, and why is has it become so popular? ‘A caller ID can be spoofed easily, and for free, using software that is shared online,’ explains Ray Walsh, digital privacy expert at proprivacy.com. ‘Scammers start by finding the number they want to spoof, either online or via whitepages. ‘Next, they enter that number into the software.

    Once the number is saved, any outbound call that is made via the software will register on the recipient’s end as the spoofed number.’ As we’ve seen, the chosen number could be someone else’s landline number, your bank’s, or any other company. ‘Using a recognised number massively increases the chances that a scammer will be able to engage with a victim, often using specially-written scripts that are designed to trick people into saying and doing things the spammer wants,’ says Ray.

    ‘Most often this leads to the victim parting with sensitive personal information, be it payment details in order to drain their bank funds, or amassing personal data that can be used in future phishing and hacking attempts.

    . ‘Personal information has gone beyond your login details now,’ says Sharif. ‘We’re now in the realms of your voice being personal information, and it’s valuable. Voice recognition is increasingly being used for phone banking, and AI systems are becoming better and better at mimicking human voices.


    ‘So, when you’re spoofed and just hear a recorded message, scammers could just be aiming to record your voice recordings to get your voice on tape.’ Perhaps most worryingly is the fact that much of the number spoofing that takes place will never be punished. ‘This is a borderless crime,’ says Sharif. ‘A lot of scammers have call centres set up in India and China. Scamming someone in the UK for £1,000 isn’t enough to send the UK police over – the problem is too big and too widespread. Conversely, Sharif says that if the criminals are based in the UK and spoofing UK phone numbers, the authorities are more likely to investigate if you report the call.

    Read more: https://www.which.co.uk/news/2019/10/whos-really-calling-you-an-investigation-into-the-worrying-rise-of-number-spoofing/
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    Quick time for some more shit posting on twitter for the Tories.
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    Completely off topic but seeking some help from the PB Brains Trust...

    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    0354 514292 14-Nov
    0379 184009 14-Nov
    0566 884702 14-Nov
    0360 970443 15-Nov
    0570 017197 15-Nov
    0584 530131 16-Nov
    0314 797274 18-Nov
    0531 533409 18-Nov
    0565 013029 18-Nov
    0315 996818 19-Nov
    0330 399645 19-Nov
    0466 727405 19-Nov
    0234 395202 20-Nov
    0320 628275 20-Nov
    0438 567548 20-Nov
    0531 189698 20-Nov

    Anyone else seeing anything like this? Any suggestions as to what to do? I am loath to answer them in case that just encourages more. On the other hand I'd like them to stop.

    Any thoughts/help much appreciate. Apols for the off-topic request.

    They could be spoofed numbers from a similar source, scammers from here or abroad. I would contact your phone company and tell them about the issue.
    Ok thanks.

    I am convinced they are all from the same source, because they always follow the same pattern, hanging up as soon as our voicemail kicks in. The STD codes are not any that I recognise or can find in the UK and if they were from abroad I'd expect them to begin with 00.
    As far as I knew 03 and 05 are non-geographic numbers but unlike 08 numbers they would be included within your minutes plan.

    I've never heard of an 04 number before.
    Seems like there's no such thing as an 04 number, that has been reserved and isn't in use, so yes those are completely fake numbers.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,981

    kinabalu said:

    No. He needs to be beaten so severely that Labour pull back from the precipice and deal with their unelectability and antisemitism issues.

    But you're another saying this who would never vote Labour, am I right?
    I've voted Labour in the past.

    I want there to be an electable opposition as its not good for the governance of the country for the opposition to be unelectable.
    The annoying thing is that I want neither side to win and for them both to lose badly enough that their leaders are replaced.

    Sadly it's just not possible,
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    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    Fantastic first brochure from Lib Dems in the post.

    Spelt their candidate's name wrong in one of the BIG headings "Dorrel" but right in other parts of the brochure "Dorrell".

    "improve public services in buckinghamshire" using lower case (small but annoying).

    Said "Stephen is an experience MP" - what sort of experience he's offering is unclear...

    "As Prime Minister, Jo Swinson will work every day...." - PM, really?

    And a bar chart using the 2019 Euro elections headlined Labour can't win here showing Brexit Party on 34%, LDs on 27%, Tories on 11% and Labour on 7% with an arrow saying "Labour will never win here". Neither can the Tories presumably on that logic? Also small factual issue - Labour won the seat in 1945 and 1964.

    But I think the seat included Bletchley and Wolverton in those days so quite a different geographical entity.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    IanB2 said:

    The NI policy is pretty clever. 'No income tax of any kind on the first grand a month you earn'
    Very simple and clear message that appeals to low and average earners/families

    Who is going to pay for it?
    Quite a lot of bills appeared to have been sent to some fellow called 'Laffer'
    One of the most risible - if unnoticed - events of this week was Leadsom’s R4 interview in which she claimed that because the corporation tax cut had (apparently) been self funding through expanding the tax take, the same could and would be done for her “reform” of business rates. Entirely misunderstanding the basis on which rates are levied which (aside from the proportion of vacant premises, at the margin) isn’t, unlike corporation tax, particularly sensitive to business activity or profits.
    I don't know what your High St looks like but the sheer volume of charity shops about gives more credence to Leadsom's argument than one may think.
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    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,934
    IanB2 said:

    Anorak said:

    What a con! Given inflation and time it will eventually reach any number you care to think of.
    When's that free broadband being delivered by again?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,283

    kinabalu said:

    No. He needs to be beaten so severely that Labour pull back from the precipice and deal with their unelectability and antisemitism issues.

    But you're another saying this who would never vote Labour, am I right?
    I've voted Labour in the past.

    I want there to be an electable opposition as its not good for the governance of the country for the opposition to be unelectable.
    So you need to vote LibDem.

    Too many people wish for another choice without being willing to cast their vote to help make it happen.
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    Mr "Endillion" Yes, of course I have heard of the electoral college. I will restrain myself from calling you a pillock, because that is not nice in a well mannered forum such as this. Your silly comment is very awkward though, and is generally illustrative of your other lightweight comments.

    What I was referring to is the fact that you can vote for an actual person, rather than a possible MP for a party in a constituency, that MIGHT support the leader of the day. Yes there is an element of FPTP to the electoral college, and yes someone can win a greater portion of the popular vote and still lose (H Clinton). They also have the very good system of primaries which has only been used very occasionally here. The separation between the executive and the legislature is also better, though there is the issue of the appointment of judges to the Supreme Court, where patronage can be a weakness with respect to the separation of powers. The other weakness of the system is the huge sums of money spent on campaigns. On the whole though, IMO it is a far better and much more democratic system.

    No, not awkward at all, except for you perhaps!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    It might look like a fuck up to the twitterati but CCHQ getting the agenda onto their tax cuts here.

    Have a think.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited November 2019
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    No. He needs to be beaten so severely that Labour pull back from the precipice and deal with their unelectability and antisemitism issues.

    But you're another saying this who would never vote Labour, am I right?
    I've voted Labour in the past.

    I want there to be an electable opposition as its not good for the governance of the country for the opposition to be unelectable.
    So you need to vote LibDem.

    Too many people wish for another choice without being willing to cast their vote to help make it happen.
    If I didn't support the Conservatives and if the Lib Dems were putting forward policies I liked more I would.

    The Lib Dems are massively more electable than Labour though, so yes I do think anyone who doesn't want to back the Conservatives could and should vote Lib Dem.
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    Anorak said:
    Surely this is yet another CCHQ master-ruse: get everyone talking about this brilliant new tax cut. People will then tend to remember the promise rather than the ignominious retraction. Winner for Boris! Can these guys do no wrong?
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    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Pulpstar said:

    It might look like a fuck up to the twitterati but CCHQ getting the agenda onto their tax cuts here.

    Have a think.

    Who the heck else is cutting taxes at all?
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,679
    Anorak said:
    LOL!

    At current inflation of 1.5% that will take until 2039.

    Alternatively, maybe the Tories are planning to increase inflation to 15% (they've done it before) to achieve the goal by 2022 :smile:
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Pulpstar said:

    It might look like a fuck up to the twitterati but CCHQ getting the agenda onto their tax cuts here.

    Have a think.

    Hmm. Worth a think, I agree. Does the cock-up and impression of incompetence outweigh the positive (but limited) announcement?

    Depends on how it's reported on this evening's bulletins, I suspect.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Pulpstar said:

    It might look like a fuck up to the twitterati but CCHQ getting the agenda onto their tax cuts here.

    Have a think.

    Wargamed? :p
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    148grss148grss Posts: 3,679
    Anorak said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It might look like a fuck up to the twitterati but CCHQ getting the agenda onto their tax cuts here.

    Have a think.

    Hmm. Worth a think, I agree. Does the cock-up and impression of incompetence outweigh the positive (but limited) announcement?

    Depends on how it's reported on this evening's bulletins, I suspect.
    Johnson lies about regular person tax cut - great headline...
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    eek said:

    There is a campaign to get Students at Brunel University to stay long enough to vote in Uxbridge

    https://medium.com/@tswriting/how-brunel-university-could-dominate-the-uk-general-election-ecfb0759355d

    TBH if they are going to vote tactically, for many Uxbridge is probably not the best place to do it, for many their home constituencies might be the better place.

    Phil's model in 57.2% leave voting Uxbridge predicts
    Con 18,395 Lab 10,334 LD 7,142 BXP 6,644 Green 3,065
    (and Yes I know the BXP aren't standing and the national polls have moved since)
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    148grss said:

    Anorak said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It might look like a fuck up to the twitterati but CCHQ getting the agenda onto their tax cuts here.

    Have a think.

    Hmm. Worth a think, I agree. Does the cock-up and impression of incompetence outweigh the positive (but limited) announcement?

    Depends on how it's reported on this evening's bulletins, I suspect.
    Johnson lies about regular person tax cut - great headline...
    Did he actually lie, or is this just another overreaction?
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    Why are both Skynews & BBC new channel both carrying the Trump hearing live? We all know the media bubble gang all salivate over anything potentially anti Trump but, to borrow from Dom Raab, nobody else gives a toss.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,339
    IanB2 said:

    nico67 said:

    No 10 apparently gone into panic mode as Johnson has given away one of their key manifesto pledges re NI.

    Classic Bozo, getting it out at the first temptation, unable to wait until the right time.
    I'm sceptical - I think they've learned from Labour in 2017 that if you leak your key pledges then you get twice the coverage.

    How useful it is, though, is another matter. The benefit goes overwhelmingly to people on medium to higher income (excluding over-65s), for whom it's a nice extra but not very significant.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    148grss said:

    Anorak said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It might look like a fuck up to the twitterati but CCHQ getting the agenda onto their tax cuts here.

    Have a think.

    Hmm. Worth a think, I agree. Does the cock-up and impression of incompetence outweigh the positive (but limited) announcement?

    Depends on how it's reported on this evening's bulletins, I suspect.
    Johnson lies about regular person tax cut - great headline...
    But he didn't. Timescales were not mentioned.

    Anyway, following on from the CCHQ Twitter wheeze, I'd see this as reinforcing the "incompetent" line, and a net negative.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,679

    To BenPointer - Yes, they could be using any types of method for spoofing - making up non-working numbers, or very distant area codes. This new info from which.com is useful :

    "How do the scammers do it? For the problem to have become so widespread, it’s fair to assume that number spoofing has become the weapon of choice for lots of scammers around the world.

    But how do they go about it, and why is has it become so popular? ‘A caller ID can be spoofed easily, and for free, using software that is shared online,’ explains Ray Walsh, digital privacy expert at proprivacy.com. ‘Scammers start by finding the number they want to spoof, either online or via whitepages. ‘Next, they enter that number into the software.

    Once the number is saved, any outbound call that is made via the software will register on the recipient’s end as the spoofed number.’ As we’ve seen, the chosen number could be someone else’s landline number, your bank’s, or any other company. ‘Using a recognised number massively increases the chances that a scammer will be able to engage with a victim, often using specially-written scripts that are designed to trick people into saying and doing things the spammer wants,’ says Ray.

    ‘Most often this leads to the victim parting with sensitive personal information, be it payment details in order to drain their bank funds, or amassing personal data that can be used in future phishing and hacking attempts.

    . ‘Personal information has gone beyond your login details now,’ says Sharif. ‘We’re now in the realms of your voice being personal information, and it’s valuable. Voice recognition is increasingly being used for phone banking, and AI systems are becoming better and better at mimicking human voices.


    ‘So, when you’re spoofed and just hear a recorded message, scammers could just be aiming to record your voice recordings to get your voice on tape.’ Perhaps most worryingly is the fact that much of the number spoofing that takes place will never be punished. ‘This is a borderless crime,’ says Sharif. ‘A lot of scammers have call centres set up in India and China. Scamming someone in the UK for £1,000 isn’t enough to send the UK police over – the problem is too big and too widespread. Conversely, Sharif says that if the criminals are based in the UK and spoofing UK phone numbers, the authorities are more likely to investigate if you report the call.

    Read more: https://www.which.co.uk/news/2019/10/whos-really-calling-you-an-investigation-into-the-worrying-rise-of-number-spoofing/

    Thanks! Interesting, if mildly depressing.
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    Banterman said:

    Why are both Skynews & BBC new channel both carrying the Trump hearing live? We all know the media bubble gang all salivate over anything potentially anti Trump but, to borrow from Dom Raab, nobody else gives a toss.

    Cheap telly - easy to take a feed from a US Partner network, rather than go to reporters around the country, get guests in etc.
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    Bronze, Silver and Gold for me :D:D:D

    C'mon you lot. Wake up.
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    One of his tweets, to Nicole Scherzinger, said "your proud of them I just one to kiss that cute black women"

    Racism's bad enough, but illiterate racism really winds me up.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    Bronze, Silver and Gold for me :D:D:D

    C'mon you lot. Wake up.

    :o Unfair, outrageous etc.
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    The other ballot box is now officially being stuffed.

    This one is full up.
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    Anorak said:
    LOL!

    At current inflation of 1.5% that will take until 2039.

    Alternatively, maybe the Tories are planning to increase inflation to 15% (they've done it before) to achieve the goal by 2022 :smile:
    No triple locks for us workers.
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    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,783

    Completely off topic but seeking some help from the PB Brains Trust...

    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    0354 514292 14-Nov
    0379 184009 14-Nov
    0566 884702 14-Nov
    0360 970443 15-Nov
    0570 017197 15-Nov
    0584 530131 16-Nov
    0314 797274 18-Nov
    0531 533409 18-Nov
    0565 013029 18-Nov
    0315 996818 19-Nov
    0330 399645 19-Nov
    0466 727405 19-Nov
    0234 395202 20-Nov
    0320 628275 20-Nov
    0438 567548 20-Nov
    0531 189698 20-Nov

    Anyone else seeing anything like this? Any suggestions as to what to do? I am loath to answer them in case that just encourages more. On the other hand I'd like them to stop.

    Any thoughts/help much appreciate. Apols for the off-topic request.

    Do they hang up after half a ring? I get them regularly on my mobile. Ive heard two explanations - one is automated ringing just to confirm numbers on a database are still live, the other is a scam ploy to get you to answer the missed call and incur premium charges. Like you I never answer or call back and wipe them from phone memory.
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    Anorak said:
    Surely this is yet another CCHQ master-ruse: get everyone talking about this brilliant new tax cut. People will then tend to remember the promise rather than the ignominious retraction. Winner for Boris! Can these guys do no wrong?
    If that is the pledge then they need more rigour, it is stupid to say it will rise inline with CPI but then have a specific limit.
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    RobD said:

    148grss said:

    Anorak said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It might look like a fuck up to the twitterati but CCHQ getting the agenda onto their tax cuts here.

    Have a think.

    Hmm. Worth a think, I agree. Does the cock-up and impression of incompetence outweigh the positive (but limited) announcement?

    Depends on how it's reported on this evening's bulletins, I suspect.
    Johnson lies about regular person tax cut - great headline...
    Did he actually lie, or is this just another overreaction?
    People comparing things which aren't like the bus to the bus might want to compare this one, it's better.

    Announce it in the normal way and what, it's one policy among many.

    Announce it in a way that looks like a gaffe, and what, the political world is consumed by a debate about how far and how fast Boris is going to cut your taxes.

    What do people remember? "Boris shoots from the hip and he's going to cut my taxes, the other parties are angry about it for some reason, probably because they want to put taxes up".
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,980

    Completely off topic but seeking some help from the PB Brains Trust...

    We've been pestered by a series of unsolicited calls to our home landline over the past two weeks. I know everyone gets them from time to time but we're getting 2-3 a day, every one from different numbers. I never answer them and they leave no meassage. The only saving grace is they seem to be sticking to daytime (usually office) hours. Here's a list of numbers from the past few days:

    0354 514292 14-Nov
    0379 184009 14-Nov
    0566 884702 14-Nov
    0360 970443 15-Nov
    0570 017197 15-Nov
    0584 530131 16-Nov
    0314 797274 18-Nov
    0531 533409 18-Nov
    0565 013029 18-Nov
    0315 996818 19-Nov
    0330 399645 19-Nov
    0466 727405 19-Nov
    0234 395202 20-Nov
    0320 628275 20-Nov
    0438 567548 20-Nov
    0531 189698 20-Nov

    Anyone else seeing anything like this? Any suggestions as to what to do? I am loath to answer them in case that just encourages more. On the other hand I'd like them to stop.

    Any thoughts/help much appreciate. Apols for the off-topic request.

    I finally get sick of calls and answer one then curse and swear at them and warn them never to ever call me again. When you are nice they say they will not call back but nearly always do.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Banterman said:

    Why are both Skynews & BBC new channel both carrying the Trump hearing live? We all know the media bubble gang all salivate over anything potentially anti Trump but, to borrow from Dom Raab, nobody else gives a toss.

    It's been fucking dynamite. The last two days have been un fucking believable.
This discussion has been closed.