On topic: The debate may not have changed the betting markets but it changed my Ladbrokes balance by £73 in the right direction..
'Green industrial revolution' Won at 4.0 'Marxist' Lost at 2.0 'Chlorinated chicken' Lost at 4.0 'Zero hours contracts' Won at 3.0 Treble of 'Scotland', 'Wales' and 'Get Brexit done' Won at 1.76 for the treble.
Bad luck on Chlorinated Chicken. I didn't bet but thought it looked good value at 4.0.
Nearly time for my daily deluge of Lib Dem propaganda through the letter box....
Blimey, which seat are you in. I've received a grand total of "Sorry we missed you" (Obviously canvassing) from the Tories and a fake newspaper "The Brexiteer" which was sent out before the campaign proper. Still nowt from Labour.
Are people getting anything? So far I've had:
SCon - 1 leaflet full of pictures of Nicola Sturgeon SNP - 2 leaflets LD - nowt SLab - nowt
In physical form: LD - PM Jo Swinson brochure Lab - Baby-eating Tories leaflet On the web: Loads of Tory astroturfers Momentum twitter posts being shared by my friends
Peter Kellner on twitter has just stated that a survey of undecided voters saw the debate last night as 54% for a Corbyn win, 38% Johnson win and 8% undecided. He sees that as significant.
I noticed that trend starting a few years ago. Education does seem to be a divider (the more the leftier) but unless you're super-rich or desperately poor, there is now very little class difference in voting.
I’ve often wondered why. It would be interesting to see the split by types of education (humanities vs. science) or by other differentiating features.
Yes, I saw a study on that a while back which showed little difference by subject but that could have changed. It might be true to say that people who study a lot tend to vote more on intellectual persuasion than gut instinct, and modern right-wing politicians tend to go more for gut appeal. I absolutely get why Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage have lots of fans, but also why the average university professor might be resistant to their charms.
Alternative explanation: educational institutions tend to be staffed by people whise views range from the left wing to the extreme left wing. The more time an individual spends in such an institution, the more chance of these views rubbing off on them.
Alternative alternative explanation: those who have never known anything other than state provision (first school, then university) tend to think it is natural that as much as possible should be provided by the state. Those whose experience includes pay packets indicating how much they are being charged for it are not so sure.
Have they considered the optics of Conservatives complaining about people being able to vote?
Indeed. Also, isn’t it normal? I think my university registered me when I was in halls. Doesn’t stop you also registering at home.
I may be mistaken but I think that was normal until 2014, when the Coalition switched to Individual Electoral Registration and ended bulk registration like this. I imagine the legacy systems are the cause of the error this time.
We should not that the Electoral Commission preferred IER, so it wasn't obviously a partisan move.
A mug of tea and a bacon bap would be more of a vote winner.
Its 2019 does anyone still drink that tepid brown water abomination they call tea?
My generation and those that the LDs are targetting are far more likely to drink coffee.
Nah, tea is still hugely popular. And rightly so. Far more refreshing than the brown sludge served in any coffee chain.
I much prefer tea to coffee when I have control of the production process, but paying someone to make tea for you is increasingly risky.
Only me can make tea as I like it. A single estate darjeeling brewed for exactly four minutes in a cup that has been WARMED before the water is put in. No milk of course
Sounds great. I'm sure though many English would dispute that this is "proper tea".
Though I do remember reading that coffee now outsold tea in Britain - possibly by price or weight or some other non-intuitive measure. Certainly coffee shops vastly outnumber teashops now, which is odd if people prefer tea at home.
If tea/coffee drinking were destiny then that would make the case for Brexit, though the rupture with ireland is a tragedy.
I noticed that trend starting a few years ago. Education does seem to be a divider (the more the leftier) but unless you're super-rich or desperately poor, there is now very little class difference in voting.
I’ve often wondered why. It would be interesting to see the split by types of education (humanities vs. science) or by other differentiating features.
Yes, I saw a study on that a while back which showed little difference by subject but that could have changed. It might be true to say that people who study a lot tend to vote more on intellectual persuasion than gut instinct, and modern right-wing politicians tend to go more for gut appeal. I absolutely get why Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage have lots of fans, but also why the average university professor might be resistant to their charms.
Alternative explanation: educational institutions tend to be staffed by people whise views range from the left wing to the extreme left wing. The more time an individual spends in such an institution, the more chance of these views rubbing off on them.
Alternative alternative explanation: those who have never known anything other than state provision (first school, then university) tend to think it is natural that as much as possible should be provided by the state. Those whose experience includes pay packets indicating how much they are being charged for it are not so sure.
I just think that university is a place where you are more likely to meet people not like yourself; people studying different things, people from places other than where you grew up, people with different experiences and points of view. That makes people more socially liberal, they have to learn how to live together despite these differences.
Have they considered the optics of Conservatives complaining about people being able to vote?
Indeed. Also, isn’t it normal? I think my university registered me when I was in halls. Doesn’t stop you also registering at home.
I may be mistaken but I think that was normal until 2014, when the Coalition switched to Individual Electoral Registration and ended bulk registration like this. I imagine the legacy systems are the cause of the error this time.
We should not that the Electoral Commission preferred IER, so it wasn't obviously a partisan move.
We covered this the other day. Most unis register their students, even ones that don't live on campus. It is now the norm that a student agree to be registered on their behalf( with option to opt-out) when they register for a new academic year. Basically it is the same as students joining the SU, you can opt-out, but basically nobody does. Nothing wrong with any of this.
However, this isn't what has allegedly gone on in Plymouth. The story appears to be the council registered a load of people (including those under-age) without any agreement to do so from the individuals, and sent them polling cards.
"No money left" was wheeled out again, but perhaps it wasn't on Ladbrokes' list.
How about 'money tree'? That came out and was then supplanted by a money forest. Actually if Boris had been quicker/cleverer/meaner he could have offered Corbyn a money tree instead of a Christmas tree at the end.
On topic: The debate may not have changed the betting markets but it changed my Ladbrokes balance by £73 in the right direction..
'Green industrial revolution' Won at 4.0 'Marxist' Lost at 2.0 'Chlorinated chicken' Lost at 4.0 'Zero hours contracts' Won at 3.0 Treble of 'Scotland', 'Wales' and 'Get Brexit done' Won at 1.76 for the treble.
Bad luck on Chlorinated Chicken. I didn't bet but thought it looked good value at 4.0.
Yes, I can't imagine how Corbyn forgot to get that one in.
It would have been nice to have had a spread bet on the number of Get Brexit Dones!
Have they considered the optics of Conservatives complaining about people being able to vote?
Indeed. Also, isn’t it normal? I think my university registered me when I was in halls. Doesn’t stop you also registering at home.
I may be mistaken but I think that was normal until 2014, when the Coalition switched to Individual Electoral Registration and ended bulk registration like this. I imagine the legacy systems are the cause of the error this time.
We should not that the Electoral Commission preferred IER, so it wasn't obviously a partisan move.
Ah, that makes sense. I understand individual registration in most cases, but with student halls an exception would make sense. We know we can trust the “head of the household” after all.
A mug of tea and a bacon bap would be more of a vote winner.
Its 2019 does anyone still drink that tepid brown water abomination they call tea?
My generation and those that the LDs are targetting are far more likely to drink coffee.
Nah, tea is still hugely popular. And rightly so. Far more refreshing than the brown sludge served in any coffee chain.
I much prefer tea to coffee when I have control of the production process, but paying someone to make tea for you is increasingly risky.
Only me can make tea as I like it. A single estate darjeeling brewed for exactly four minutes in a cup that has been WARMED before the water is put in. No milk of course
Sounds great. I'm sure though many English would dispute that this is "proper tea".
Though I do remember reading that coffee now outsold tea in Britain - possibly by price or weight or some other non-intuitive measure. Certainly coffee shops vastly outnumber teashops now, which is odd if people prefer tea at home.
If tea/coffee drinking were destiny then that would make the case for Brexit, though the rupture with ireland is a tragedy.
Tragedy? Bit strong. Historically inevitable more like.
Tthe Liberal Democrats will be officially launching their election manifesto later this afternoon. But from 1pm, they will be releasing the details, at which point we can bring you confirmation of their policies and our analysis.
If they don't get any publicity soon, they are going to be sunk.
Have they considered the optics of Conservatives complaining about people being able to vote?
Indeed. Also, isn’t it normal? I think my university registered me when I was in halls. Doesn’t stop you also registering at home.
I may be mistaken but I think that was normal until 2014, when the Coalition switched to Individual Electoral Registration and ended bulk registration like this. I imagine the legacy systems are the cause of the error this time.
We should not that the Electoral Commission preferred IER, so it wasn't obviously a partisan move.
Ah, that makes sense. I understand individual registration in most cases, but with student halls an exception would make sense. We know we can trust the “head of the household” after all.
I actually agree, seems a situation where bulk registration is easy and reliable. All the data is already in the system for the unis to register students internally, after all.
"No money left" was wheeled out again, but perhaps it wasn't on Ladbrokes' list.
How about 'money tree'? That came out and was then supplanted by a money forest. Actually if Boris had been quicker/cleverer/meaner he could have offered Corbyn a money tree instead of a Christmas tree at the end.
I asked Ladbrokes about this on Twitter. It was on the list, but doesn't count if the moderator says it. And neither leader repeated 'Magic Money Tree' precisely.
A word on hypothetical opinion polls. The debate viewing figures are estimated at about 7 million. This is 22% of the number of voters at GE2017, or about 15% of voters on the electoral register.
In the YouGov poll of 14th-15th November, 41% of those sampled said that they were fairly or very likely to watch last night's debate, which would have been 19 million people. The 16% who said they were very likely was pretty much spot on.
Have they considered the optics of Conservatives complaining about people being able to vote?
Indeed. Also, isn’t it normal? I think my university registered me when I was in halls. Doesn’t stop you also registering at home.
I may be mistaken but I think that was normal until 2014, when the Coalition switched to Individual Electoral Registration and ended bulk registration like this. I imagine the legacy systems are the cause of the error this time.
We should not that the Electoral Commission preferred IER, so it wasn't obviously a partisan move.
Ah, that makes sense. I understand individual registration in most cases, but with student halls an exception would make sense. We know we can trust the “head of the household” after all.
I actually agree, seems a situation where bulk registration is easy and reliable. All the data is already in the system for the unis to register students internally, after all.
A word on hypothetical opinion polls. The debate viewing figures are estimated at about 7 million. This is 22% of the number of voters at GE2017, or about 15% of voters on the electoral register.
In the YouGov poll of 14th-15th November, 41% of those sampled said that they were fairly or very likely to watch last night's debate, which would have been 19 million people. The 16% who said they were very likely was pretty much spot on.
I'm envious of those of you fed up with LD leaflets. So far this election I've had nothing at all, apart from my polling card. This time the Tories haven't bothered to put up their stakeboards at the usual sites along main roads. Not surprising though as Romford is ultra safe Tory and the party that would have started in second place based on polling at the outset of the campaign has pulled out.
Also I was in Durham at the weekend, and saw just one Labour window poster in Durham itself and a couple more where I was staying in Bishop Auckland constituency. One big Tory billboard beside the A1 in Yorkshire. And that was it.
A mug of tea and a bacon bap would be more of a vote winner.
Its 2019 does anyone still drink that tepid brown water abomination they call tea?
My generation and those that the LDs are targetting are far more likely to drink coffee.
Nah, tea is still hugely popular. And rightly so. Far more refreshing than the brown sludge served in any coffee chain.
I much prefer tea to coffee when I have control of the production process, but paying someone to make tea for you is increasingly risky.
Only me can make tea as I like it. A single estate darjeeling brewed for exactly four minutes in a cup that has been WARMED before the water is put in. No milk of course
Sounds great. I'm sure though many English would dispute that this is "proper tea".
Though I do remember reading that coffee now outsold tea in Britain - possibly by price or weight or some other non-intuitive measure. Certainly coffee shops vastly outnumber teashops now, which is odd if people prefer tea at home.
If tea/coffee drinking were destiny then that would make the case for Brexit, though the rupture with ireland is a tragedy.
Tragedy? Bit strong. Historically inevitable more like.
In the whimsical context of using relative levels of hot beverage consumption as a means to decide geopolitics then I think tragedy is understating things.
A mug of tea and a bacon bap would be more of a vote winner.
Its 2019 does anyone still drink that tepid brown water abomination they call tea?
My generation and those that the LDs are targetting are far more likely to drink coffee.
Nah, tea is still hugely popular. And rightly so. Far more refreshing than the brown sludge served in any coffee chain.
I much prefer tea to coffee when I have control of the production process, but paying someone to make tea for you is increasingly risky.
Only me can make tea as I like it. A single estate darjeeling brewed for exactly four minutes in a cup that has been WARMED before the water is put in. No milk of course
Sounds great. I'm sure though many English would dispute that this is "proper tea".
Though I do remember reading that coffee now outsold tea in Britain - possibly by price or weight or some other non-intuitive measure. Certainly coffee shops vastly outnumber teashops now, which is odd if people prefer tea at home.
If tea/coffee drinking were destiny then that would make the case for Brexit, though the rupture with ireland is a tragedy.
Tragedy? Bit strong. Historically inevitable more like.
In the whimsical context of using relative levels of hot beverage consumption as a means to decide geopolitics then I think tragedy is understating things.
Nobody should ever have the role regulating election material and we must have absolute free speech. Regulating election material is the preserve of dictators not free societies. Imagine the squealing there'd be if a government-appointed body was censoring material the Opposition was pointing out. Imagine if a government-appointed censor was telling Jeremy Corbyn he can't say the Tories are putting the NHS up for sale . . . because they're not.
Is it surprising that 77% of Lib Dems polled saw Corbyn as the winner according to last night's poll? How on earth did we get to the even result view posited across the media? Just wondering?
I'm envious of those of you fed up with LD leaflets. So far this election I've had nothing at all, apart from my polling card. This time the Tories haven't bothered to put up their stakeboards at the usual sites along main roads. Not surprising though as Romford is ultra safe Tory and the party that would have started in second place based on polling at the outset of the campaign has pulled out.
Also I was in Durham at the weekend, and saw just one Labour window poster in Durham itself and a couple more where I was staying in Bishop Auckland constituency. One big Tory billboard beside the A1 in Yorkshire. And that was it.
No posters or placards but yesterday Labour was handing out leaflets in the subway from the tube station. The homeless guy who has lived there for the past few months has disappeared, with a job or at least a heated room, one hopes.
Is it surprising that 77% of Lib Dems polled saw Corbyn as the winner according to last night's poll? How on earth did we get to the even result view posited across the media? Just wondering?
Is it surprising that 77% of Lib Dems polled saw Corbyn as the winner according to last night's poll? How on earth did we get to the even result view posited across the media? Just wondering?
It's a fix. Those global financiers, if you get my drift.
I'm envious of those of you fed up with LD leaflets. So far this election I've had nothing at all, apart from my polling card. This time the Tories haven't bothered to put up their stakeboards at the usual sites along main roads. Not surprising though as Romford is ultra safe Tory and the party that would have started in second place based on polling at the outset of the campaign has pulled out.
Also I was in Durham at the weekend, and saw just one Labour window poster in Durham itself and a couple more where I was staying in Bishop Auckland constituency. One big Tory billboard beside the A1 in Yorkshire. And that was it.
I've also seen practically nothing. No leaflets from the local parties. Only one Labour flag in our safe Labour seat. And with the exception of a handful of Tory posters in houses and gardens somewhere on the Morecambe and Lunesdale/Westmorland and Lonsdale border when I was around those parts the weekend before last, no real world advertising at all. Very different online, of course.
I'm envious of those of you fed up with LD leaflets. So far this election I've had nothing at all, apart from my polling card. This time the Tories haven't bothered to put up their stakeboards at the usual sites along main roads. Not surprising though as Romford is ultra safe Tory and the party that would have started in second place based on polling at the outset of the campaign has pulled out.
Also I was in Durham at the weekend, and saw just one Labour window poster in Durham itself and a couple more where I was staying in Bishop Auckland constituency. One big Tory billboard beside the A1 in Yorkshire. And that was it.
No posters or placards but yesterday Labour was handing out leaflets in the subway from the tube station. The homeless guy who has lived there for the past few months has disappeared, with a job or at least a heated room, one hopes.
Probably the Labour candidate went to public school, given his biography leaps straight from primary school to university.
Is it surprising that 77% of Lib Dems polled saw Corbyn as the winner according to last night's poll? How on earth did we get to the even result view posited across the media? Just wondering?
I don't know why I keep on being surprised by this. The Labour Party is institutionally anti-Semitic. Anyone that votes for them is endorsing this attitude and has no right to call themselves liberal or tolerant.
I'm envious of those of you fed up with LD leaflets. So far this election I've had nothing at all, apart from my polling card. This time the Tories haven't bothered to put up their stakeboards at the usual sites along main roads. Not surprising though as Romford is ultra safe Tory and the party that would have started in second place based on polling at the outset of the campaign has pulled out.
Also I was in Durham at the weekend, and saw just one Labour window poster in Durham itself and a couple more where I was staying in Bishop Auckland constituency. One big Tory billboard beside the A1 in Yorkshire. And that was it.
I've also seen practically nothing. No leaflets from the local parties. Only one Labour flag in our safe Labour seat. And with the exception of a handful of Tory posters in houses and gardens somewhere on the Morecambe and Lunesdale/Westmorland and Lonsdale border when I was around those parts the weekend before last, no real world advertising at all. Very different online, of course.
I live in Morecambe and Lunesdale and I've seen 1 whole Labour poster - and that's it! Majority at last election 1400. I did expect a big effort this time but no sign as yet.
Nobody should ever have the role regulating election material and we must have absolute free speech. Regulating election material is the preserve of dictators not free societies. Imagine the squealing there'd be if a government-appointed body was censoring material the Opposition was pointing out. Imagine if a government-appointed censor was telling Jeremy Corbyn he can't say the Tories are putting the NHS up for sale . . . because they're not.
This is bonkers. Democracy has worked perfectly well in the UK pre-internet with the EC regulating campaign materials. Expanding that online is not dictatorial. It is safeguarding the integrity of our elections.
Nobody should ever have the role regulating election material and we must have absolute free speech. Regulating election material is the preserve of dictators not free societies. Imagine the squealing there'd be if a government-appointed body was censoring material the Opposition was pointing out. Imagine if a government-appointed censor was telling Jeremy Corbyn he can't say the Tories are putting the NHS up for sale . . . because they're not.
PEBs on telly are controlled. The problem is the parties bypass this using videos and other social media. This is why we will never see a proper investigation into Russian or other interference, the main parties want to use the same techniques.
I wish the media would refrain from telling the public that the debate didn’t matter . They do seem to be viewing this from completely the wrong angle .
Corbyns dire favourability ratings need to change , he came into this miles behind Johnson. So any situation where Corbyn can look different from the persona peddled by the right wing press helps him.
As has been noted the undecideds broke decisively for him.
A mug of tea and a bacon bap would be more of a vote winner.
Its 2019 does anyone still drink that tepid brown water abomination they call tea?
My generation and those that the LDs are targetting are far more likely to drink coffee.
Nah, tea is still hugely popular. And rightly so. Far more refreshing than the brown sludge served in any coffee chain.
I much prefer tea to coffee when I have control of the production process, but paying someone to make tea for you is increasingly risky.
Only me can make tea as I like it. A single estate darjeeling brewed for exactly four minutes in a cup that has been WARMED before the water is put in. No milk of course
Sounds great. I'm sure though many English would dispute that this is "proper tea".
Which reminds me of my favourite anarchist joke!
Which is?
And Good Morning everyone!
Theft
Is it not just a picture captioned "anarchy in the UK" and someone asking if another person wants tea, and that person says "No":
I don't know why I keep on being surprised by this. The Labour Party is institutionally anti-Semitic. Anyone that votes for them is endorsing this attitude and has no right to call themselves liberal or tolerant.
On topic: The debate may not have changed the betting markets but it changed my Ladbrokes balance by £73 in the right direction..
'Green industrial revolution' Won at 4.0 'Marxist' Lost at 2.0 'Chlorinated chicken' Lost at 4.0 'Zero hours contracts' Won at 3.0 Treble of 'Scotland', 'Wales' and 'Get Brexit done' Won at 1.76 for the treble.
Bad luck on Chlorinated Chicken. I didn't bet but thought it looked good value at 4.0.
Did they pay out on Magic Money Tree.? Etchingham said it twice inadvertently question to them.both.
Nearly time for my daily deluge of Lib Dem propaganda through the letter box....
Blimey, which seat are you in. I've received a grand total of "Sorry we missed you" (Obviously canvassing) from the Tories and a fake newspaper "The Brexiteer" which was sent out before the campaign proper. Still nowt from Labour.
Are people getting anything? So far I've had:
SCon - 1 leaflet full of pictures of Nicola Sturgeon SNP - 2 leaflets LD - nowt SLab - nowt
Those of you who live in marginal seats and will actually see a campaign should count yourselves lucky.
Nobody should ever have the role regulating election material and we must have absolute free speech. Regulating election material is the preserve of dictators not free societies. Imagine the squealing there'd be if a government-appointed body was censoring material the Opposition was pointing out. Imagine if a government-appointed censor was telling Jeremy Corbyn he can't say the Tories are putting the NHS up for sale . . . because they're not.
This is bonkers. Democracy has worked perfectly well in the UK pre-internet with the EC regulating campaign materials. Expanding that online is not dictatorial. It is safeguarding the integrity of our elections.
No you are wrong.
Campaign materials have never been regulated. Nobody has ever regulated leaflets put through the door etc
I wish the media would refrain from telling the public that the debate didn’t matter . They do seem to be viewing this from completely the wrong angle .
Corbyns dire favourability ratings need to change , he came into this miles behind Johnson. So any situation where Corbyn can look different from the persona peddled by the right wing press helps him.
As has been noted the undecideds broke decisively for him.
PEBs are regulated as in who gets one and how many etc because the TV Channels are regulated, not because the parties are regulated. I'm not sure if the contents of the PEB are regulated.
Campaign materials are not regulated. There is no regulatory body that authorises Lib Dems 'Focus' leaflets that are mocked up to look like local newspapers during an election etc
Nobody should ever have the role regulating election material and we must have absolute free speech. Regulating election material is the preserve of dictators not free societies. Imagine the squealing there'd be if a government-appointed body was censoring material the Opposition was pointing out. Imagine if a government-appointed censor was telling Jeremy Corbyn he can't say the Tories are putting the NHS up for sale . . . because they're not.
This is bonkers. Democracy has worked perfectly well in the UK pre-internet with the EC regulating campaign materials. Expanding that online is not dictatorial. It is safeguarding the integrity of our elections.
Really not sure about this. On one hand, I miss the days when political advertshadto have some tangential relationship with reality. On the other hand, regulating 'on-line' is uncomfortably close to regulating private conversations. The great thing about pb.com is that there are enough informed contributors from all sides to keep contributions relatively honest.
I note the "uncontrolled immigration" dog whistle was not used. Presumably unimportant now BXP have been seen off.
Unimportant now the Conservatives have dropped the immigration cap. Any Brexiteers who think Brexit is about immigration will be sorely disappointed, whoever wins.
I note the "uncontrolled immigration" dog whistle was not used. Presumably unimportant now BXP have been seen off.
Unimportant now the Conservatives have dropped the immigration cap. Any Brexiteers who think Brexit is about immigration will be sorely disappointed, whoever wins.
A mug of tea and a bacon bap would be more of a vote winner.
Its 2019 does anyone still drink that tepid brown water abomination they call tea?
My generation and those that the LDs are targetting are far more likely to drink coffee.
Nah, tea is still hugely popular. And rightly so. Far more refreshing than the brown sludge served in any coffee chain.
I much prefer tea to coffee when I have control of the production process, but paying someone to make tea for you is increasingly risky.
Only me can make tea as I like it. A single estate darjeeling brewed for exactly four minutes in a cup that has been WARMED before the water is put in. No milk of course
Sounds great. I'm sure though many English would dispute that this is "proper tea".
Though I do remember reading that coffee now outsold tea in Britain - possibly by price or weight or some other non-intuitive measure. Certainly coffee shops vastly outnumber teashops now, which is odd if people prefer tea at home.
Coffee is the devil's brew - it produces terrible mood swings, leads to physical dependency, is dehydrating and gives you bad breath. Its spread is slowly killing off the proper serving of tea - now made with lukewarm water from a coffee machine which has cooled even more by the time you manage to get the bag in - because they can't even put the fucking bag in for you! Or at a conference where the hot water urn previously had coffee in it and your tea has a stale coffee taste - a particularly common problem in the US, home of all awful cultural trends that eventually assail us too. Coffee is JUST WRONG!
Nobody should ever have the role regulating election material and we must have absolute free speech. Regulating election material is the preserve of dictators not free societies. Imagine the squealing there'd be if a government-appointed body was censoring material the Opposition was pointing out. Imagine if a government-appointed censor was telling Jeremy Corbyn he can't say the Tories are putting the NHS up for sale . . . because they're not.
This is bonkers. Democracy has worked perfectly well in the UK pre-internet with the EC regulating campaign materials. Expanding that online is not dictatorial. It is safeguarding the integrity of our elections.
No you are wrong.
Campaign materials have never been regulated. Nobody has ever regulated leaflets put through the door etc
They're regulated in the sense that the campaign who pays for them has to declare themselves. Whereas this is not the case online. Hence all the astroturfing groups that were setup at the end of October.
Nobody should ever have the role regulating election material and we must have absolute free speech. Regulating election material is the preserve of dictators not free societies. Imagine the squealing there'd be if a government-appointed body was censoring material the Opposition was pointing out. Imagine if a government-appointed censor was telling Jeremy Corbyn he can't say the Tories are putting the NHS up for sale . . . because they're not.
This is bonkers. Democracy has worked perfectly well in the UK pre-internet with the EC regulating campaign materials. Expanding that online is not dictatorial. It is safeguarding the integrity of our elections.
No you are wrong.
Campaign materials have never been regulated. Nobody has ever regulated leaflets put through the door etc
They're regulated in the sense that the campaign who pays for them has to declare themselves. Whereas this is not the case online. Hence all the astroturfing groups that were setup at the end of October.
Regarding the account complained about it clearly and repeatedly was declared as CCHQ. In all the images it said CCHQ.
I don't see a logical difference between CCHQ mocking up something to look like a Fact Checker, but that clearly says CCHQ if you read it . . . and the Lib Dems mocking up a "local newspaper" and putting the fact that it was paid by the Lib Dems in the small print somewhere. How do you get a regulatory body to slap down one and not the other?
I'm envious of those of you fed up with LD leaflets. So far this election I've had nothing at all, apart from my polling card. This time the Tories haven't bothered to put up their stakeboards at the usual sites along main roads. Not surprising though as Romford is ultra safe Tory and the party that would have started in second place based on polling at the outset of the campaign has pulled out.
Also I was in Durham at the weekend, and saw just one Labour window poster in Durham itself and a couple more where I was staying in Bishop Auckland constituency. One big Tory billboard beside the A1 in Yorkshire. And that was it.
I've also seen practically nothing. No leaflets from the local parties. Only one Labour flag in our safe Labour seat. And with the exception of a handful of Tory posters in houses and gardens somewhere on the Morecambe and Lunesdale/Westmorland and Lonsdale border when I was around those parts the weekend before last, no real world advertising at all. Very different online, of course.
Patience folks! Our Lib Dem leaflets here in my Midlands constituency should be arriving from the printers any time now, and we have an army of volunteers chomping at the bit to start delivering.
This is where I caution Tories and the big poll leads. If they are to be believed places like Stoke are in play, but really, like really...I just don't see it. Yes they voted Leave, yes they have been failed by decades of Labour run councils, but the closure of the mines and the pottery works still scar the place and to vote Tory is just a massive massive leap for many...much much bigger than sticking two fingers up at the establishment over Brexit.
A mug of tea and a bacon bap would be more of a vote winner.
Its 2019 does anyone still drink that tepid brown water abomination they call tea?
My generation and those that the LDs are targetting are far more likely to drink coffee.
Nah, tea is still hugely popular. And rightly so. Far more refreshing than the brown sludge served in any coffee chain.
I much prefer tea to coffee when I have control of the production process, but paying someone to make tea for you is increasingly risky.
Only me can make tea as I like it. A single estate darjeeling brewed for exactly four minutes in a cup that has been WARMED before the water is put in. No milk of course
Sounds great. I'm sure though many English would dispute that this is "proper tea".
Though I do remember reading that coffee now outsold tea in Britain - possibly by price or weight or some other non-intuitive measure. Certainly coffee shops vastly outnumber teashops now, which is odd if people prefer tea at home.
Coffee is the devil's brew - it produces terrible mood swings, leads to physical dependency, is dehydrating and gives you bad breath. Its spread is slowly killing off the proper serving of tea - now made with lukewarm water from a coffee machine which has cooled even more by the time you manage to get the bag in - because they can't even put the fucking bag in for you! Or at a conference where the hot water urn previously had coffee in it and your tea has a stale coffee taste - a particularly common problem in the US, home of all awful cultural trends that eventually assail us too. Coffee is JUST WRONG!
It is a standard trope on American television that coffee is so powerful a stimulant as to induce tremors, and is dangerous to children. American electricity is too weak and feeble to boil a kettle, so they can't make tea which requires boiling water, whereas merely hot will do for coffee. They should get Elon Musk to look into the problem.
Dawn Butler: “Now I can tell you that in 2007 I had around 3,000 or so rough sleepers in Brent.”
Nick Ferrari: “But what I find incredible is, Dawn Butler you say 3,000 people sleep rough in Brent, well the last figures that we have for 2017, is that there were 4,751 people sleeping rough in the whole of England… of whom 3,000 were in Brent? Are you sure you have got your figures right.”
Dawn Butler: No, no I said in 2006 or 7 there was around that figure… I know when we get to talk about numbers it is quite exciting for you, and… and you’re very good at that so I can…
Ohhhh a change for me today. No Lib Dem Propaganda, Tory lies instead.
I've just been called by a lady asking if I'll vote for Greg Smith (Tory to replace Bercow?) and if I'd like to speak with him.
Dorrell (LD) or Tory is going to be interesting in Buckingham I reckon.
Should have asked if he's a headbanger Or his views on Private Francois but still reeling from the 'special' one disaster.
How will you feel if Arsenal sack Emery and appoint Poch?
Sick as a parrot
Chant sack Levy next week.
Look on the bright side, if you have kept Poch and then got hammered by the Spanners on Saturday then he was sacked, the Spanners would have never let you forget it.
This is where I caution Tories and the big poll leads. If they are to be believed places like Stoke are in play, but really, like really...I just don't see it. Yes they voted Leave, yes they have been failed by decades of Labour run councils, but the closure of the mines and the pottery works still scar the place and to vote Tory is just a massive massive leap for many...much much bigger than sticking two fingers up at the establishment over Brexit.
They will pick up seats by standing still as labour craters or goes BXP. Anything under 15% behind that's strong leave in the Midlands and north or Wales is a valid target requiring mainly GOTV and hammering get Brexit done
I'm envious of those of you fed up with LD leaflets. So far this election I've had nothing at all, apart from my polling card. This time the Tories haven't bothered to put up their stakeboards at the usual sites along main roads. Not surprising though as Romford is ultra safe Tory and the party that would have started in second place based on polling at the outset of the campaign has pulled out.
Also I was in Durham at the weekend, and saw just one Labour window poster in Durham itself and a couple more where I was staying in Bishop Auckland constituency. One big Tory billboard beside the A1 in Yorkshire. And that was it.
Coffee is the devil's brew - it produces terrible mood swings, leads to physical dependency, is dehydrating and gives you bad breath. Its spread is slowly killing off the proper serving of tea - now made with lukewarm water from a coffee machine which has cooled even more by the time you manage to get the bag in - because they can't even put the fucking bag in for you! Or at a conference where the hot water urn previously had coffee in it and your tea has a stale coffee taste - a particularly common problem in the US, home of all awful cultural trends that eventually assail us too. Coffee is JUST WRONG!
Lol, do come off the fence and speak your mind. I like coffee but that's my Continental background - in Switzerland, you buy the beans and every supermarket has machines at at the till to grind it fresh. Costa et al are a poor relation.
A gourmet friend once went to a London cafe and ordered a coffee, which was stone cold. The dialogue went like this:
Friend: This coffee is cold. Waiter: Yes, I'm afraid so. Friend: Why? Waiter: The machine is not working properly. Friend: So why did you serve it? Waiter (perplexed): Because you ordered it.
Two interesting comments from Nicola Sturgeon (from the Guardian live blog):
Sturgeon says it was not inevitable that Brexit had to be this chaotic.
She says, if Scotland were to vote for independence, the process of separating from England would not have to be like Brexit.
On the first: No, darling, it didn't, and if your MPs had voted for the orderly version available under Theresa May then it wouldn't have been.
On the second: She's not stupid, she can see the risk of Scottish voters realising that Scottish independence would be even messier than Brexit.
IF yu follow the SNP's logic, as Andrew Neil did, they would never get a good deal from RUK, because they would never countenance 'crashing out' of a larger economic block.
Dawn Butler: “Now I can tell you that in 2007 I had around 3,000 or so rough sleepers in Brent.”
Nick Ferrari: “But what I find incredible is, Dawn Butler you say 3,000 people sleep rough in Brent, well the last figures that we have for 2017, is that there were 4,751 people sleeping rough in the whole of England… of whom 3,000 were in Brent? Are you sure you have got your figures right.”
Dawn Butler: No, no I said in 2006 or 7 there was around that figure… I know when we get to talk about numbers it is quite exciting for you, and… and you’re very good at that so I can…
Apparently the official number for Brent is 248.
So, under a labour administration Brent had an epidemic of rough sleeping?
Dawn Butler: “Now I can tell you that in 2007 I had around 3,000 or so rough sleepers in Brent.”
Nick Ferrari: “But what I find incredible is, Dawn Butler you say 3,000 people sleep rough in Brent, well the last figures that we have for 2017, is that there were 4,751 people sleeping rough in the whole of England… of whom 3,000 were in Brent? Are you sure you have got your figures right.”
Dawn Butler: No, no I said in 2006 or 7 there was around that figure… I know when we get to talk about numbers it is quite exciting for you, and… and you’re very good at that so I can…
Apparently the official number for Brent is 248.
I do hope Nick Ferrari registered as an official fact checker first, and informed Ms Butler prior to the interview that he was going to correct her live on air if she tried lying to him. Otherwise Twitter will be very cross indeed.
Off topic, in a victory for unblemished nostalgia - the rerelease of a 15 year old game has won the golden joystick award.
PC Game of the Year - World of Warcraft Classic
For any PB boardgamers, if you think you are up to one of the best games on the market right now, I’d recommend Great Western Trail (up to 4 players). Or this year’s game of the year, Wingspan, about the unlikely boardgaming subject of birds (up to 5 players).
Hmm... perhaps we could erect a border around Stoke and let them Brexit and issue their own passports?
A local said: "Voting Brexit was the first time they ‘won’ in their lives… They may not know what it means but they know they were on the winning side."
I suspect that whether Brexit happens or not, they will continue to be neglected for exactly the same reasons they were neglected before.
Re that article on Stoke...I agree with a lot of what the author says other than this...
On the other hand, you have also to remember the many decades in which Stoke council was run by Labour. (It is now a coalition of Tories and independents.) In those years, the city did some things right. It also lost its way amid allegations of cronyism and corruption.
Did some things right is absolute horseshit. Ask anybody in Stoke what they think of the council for donkeys years....it was about on par with asking if they would like to get a Thatcher tattoo.
Remember the BNP one year even picked up loads of council seats, not because of racist stuff, but because it wasn't Labour and they were local folks that people knew from down the pub and couldn't do anybody worse than the corrupt incompetent Labour council.
Nobody should ever have the role regulating election material and we must have absolute free speech. Regulating election material is the preserve of dictators not free societies. Imagine the squealing there'd be if a government-appointed body was censoring material the Opposition was pointing out. Imagine if a government-appointed censor was telling Jeremy Corbyn he can't say the Tories are putting the NHS up for sale . . . because they're not.
This is bonkers. Democracy has worked perfectly well in the UK pre-internet with the EC regulating campaign materials. Expanding that online is not dictatorial. It is safeguarding the integrity of our elections.
No you are wrong.
Campaign materials have never been regulated. Nobody has ever regulated leaflets put through the door etc
They're regulated in the sense that the campaign who pays for them has to declare themselves. Whereas this is not the case online. Hence all the astroturfing groups that were setup at the end of October.
Regarding the account complained about it clearly and repeatedly was declared as CCHQ. In all the images it said CCHQ.
I don't see a logical difference between CCHQ mocking up something to look like a Fact Checker, but that clearly says CCHQ if you read it . . . and the Lib Dems mocking up a "local newspaper" and putting the fact that it was paid by the Lib Dems in the small print somewhere. How do you get a regulatory body to slap down one and not the other?
I think that if you used "CCHQ" on a paper leaflet instead of "Conservative Party" then you would be in trouble.
Comments
LD - PM Jo Swinson brochure
Lab - Baby-eating Tories leaflet
On the web:
Loads of Tory astroturfers
Momentum twitter posts being shared by my friends
We should not that the Electoral Commission preferred IER, so it wasn't obviously a partisan move.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Electoral_Registration
However, this isn't what has allegedly gone on in Plymouth. The story appears to be the council registered a load of people (including those under-age) without any agreement to do so from the individuals, and sent them polling cards.
How about 'money tree'? That came out and was then supplanted by a money forest. Actually if Boris had been quicker/cleverer/meaner he could have offered Corbyn a money tree instead of a Christmas tree at the end.
It would have been nice to have had a spread bet on the number of Get Brexit Dones!
If they don't get any publicity soon, they are going to be sunk.
In the YouGov poll of 14th-15th November, 41% of those sampled said that they were fairly or very likely to watch last night's debate, which would have been 19 million people. The 16% who said they were very likely was pretty much spot on.
Also I was in Durham at the weekend, and saw just one Labour window poster in Durham itself and a couple more where I was staying in Bishop Auckland constituency. One big Tory billboard beside the A1 in Yorkshire. And that was it.
Nobody should ever have the role regulating election material and we must have absolute free speech. Regulating election material is the preserve of dictators not free societies. Imagine the squealing there'd be if a government-appointed body was censoring material the Opposition was pointing out. Imagine if a government-appointed censor was telling Jeremy Corbyn he can't say the Tories are putting the NHS up for sale . . . because they're not.
Corbyns dire favourability ratings need to change , he came into this miles behind Johnson. So any situation where Corbyn can look different from the persona peddled by the right wing press helps him.
As has been noted the undecideds broke decisively for him.
After we’d stopped for a p**s
Etchingham said it twice inadvertently question to them.both.
Campaign materials have never been regulated. Nobody has ever regulated leaflets put through the door etc
Campaign materials are not regulated. There is no regulatory body that authorises Lib Dems 'Focus' leaflets that are mocked up to look like local newspapers during an election etc
The great thing about pb.com is that there are enough informed contributors from all sides to keep contributions relatively honest.
I don't see a logical difference between CCHQ mocking up something to look like a Fact Checker, but that clearly says CCHQ if you read it . . . and the Lib Dems mocking up a "local newspaper" and putting the fact that it was paid by the Lib Dems in the small print somewhere. How do you get a regulatory body to slap down one and not the other?
Dorrell (LD) or Tory is going to be interesting in Buckingham I reckon.
Should have asked if he's a headbanger Or his views on Private Francois but still reeling from the 'special' one disaster.
https://unherd.com/2019/11/stoke-the-city-that-britain-forgot/
PC Game of the Year - World of Warcraft Classic
Sturgeon says it was not inevitable that Brexit had to be this chaotic.
She says, if Scotland were to vote for independence, the process of separating from England would not have to be like Brexit.
On the first: No, darling, it didn't, and if your MPs had voted for the orderly version available under Theresa May then it wouldn't have been.
On the second: She's not stupid, she can see the risk of Scottish voters realising that Scottish independence would be even messier than Brexit.
Dawn Butler: “Now I can tell you that in 2007 I had around 3,000 or so rough sleepers in Brent.”
Nick Ferrari: “But what I find incredible is, Dawn Butler you say 3,000 people sleep rough in Brent, well the last figures that we have for 2017, is that there were 4,751 people sleeping rough in the whole of England… of whom 3,000 were in Brent? Are you sure you have got your figures right.”
Dawn Butler: No, no I said in 2006 or 7 there was around that figure… I know when we get to talk about numbers it is quite exciting for you, and… and you’re very good at that so I can…
Apparently the official number for Brent is 248.
Look on the bright side, if you have kept Poch and then got hammered by the Spanners on Saturday then he was sacked, the Spanners would have never let you forget it.
An interesting read, thanks for the link.
Hands up who among PB Tories thinks that Bozo will actually show any interest in Stoke once he has his majority?
A gourmet friend once went to a London cafe and ordered a coffee, which was stone cold. The dialogue went like this:
Friend: This coffee is cold.
Waiter: Yes, I'm afraid so.
Friend: Why?
Waiter: The machine is not working properly.
Friend: So why did you serve it?
Waiter (perplexed): Because you ordered it.
If they don’t, he can keep appealing to the working class.
A local said: "Voting Brexit was the first time they ‘won’ in their lives… They may not know what it means but they know they were on the winning side."
I suspect that whether Brexit happens or not, they will continue to be neglected for exactly the same reasons they were neglected before.
Did some things right is absolute horseshit. Ask anybody in Stoke what they think of the council for donkeys years....it was about on par with asking if they would like to get a Thatcher tattoo.
Remember the BNP one year even picked up loads of council seats, not because of racist stuff, but because it wasn't Labour and they were local folks that people knew from down the pub and couldn't do anybody worse than the corrupt incompetent Labour council.