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  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824
  • Here's today's latest GE seats forecast from Prof. Stephen Fisher (Elections Etc):

    Seats Betting Markets Complex models Simple models Average
    Con 352 360 353 355
    Lab 210 201 193 201
    LD 37 25 30 31
    Brex 0 0 0 0
    Grn 2 1 1 1
    SNP 46 48 50 48
    PC 5 4 4 4
    ConMaj 54 70 56 60
  • RobD said:
    What the actual f***ing point is this?
  • RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited November 2019
    Via Guido say may not be true, but if it’s true then this gives Boris all sorts of ammunition just at the point of the debates.


  • glwglw Posts: 9,871
    eristdoof said:

    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    Coming for your childhood home. Vote winner.

    Keep 50+ years of financial records, or enroll the entire population into self assessment.
    The one advantage of the US tax system - a large number of people need to write a cheque directly to Uncle Sam every year, rather than just have a load of their income disappear automatically via PAYE. Nothing like having to write the cheque makes you pause and consider for a moment where your tax money actually goes.
    No, In Australia too (20 years ago at least) pretty much everyone has to file a tax return magazine (much thicker bigger than a form). I just resented the time I was forced to spend completing it. And it has the disadvantage that everyone claims every single cent literally. I remember having to filling out a section which was a rebate for my salary being paid into my bank acount. It came to about 13 cents. The total time spend by every adult in Austrailia to calculate this and the cost of the government processing it is just nuts.

    Tax preparation is a big profitable industry in the US. There are some merits to filling taxes yourself, but it comes at a large cost in terms of money and time.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    RobD said:
    Its not like we want good will from these people to conclude a trade deal before the next cliff edge right?
  • Farage is stark raving bonkers. Ranting and raving about corruption on Sky.

    I think he is losing it to be honest
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483
    edited November 2019
    Local councils are starting to publish their lists of nominations:
    https://www.westminster.gov.uk/general-election-2019
    Brexit Party in Westminster North, waste of £500, Chuka Umanna facing the Liberal Party (the bit that didn't want to merge with the SDP) in Cities of London & Westminster.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824

    RobD said:
    Its not like we want good will from these people to conclude a trade deal before the next cliff edge right?
    Meh, they will always negotiate in their own interests.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited November 2019
    kinabalu said:

    If we'd ever known what it was.

    Osborne's actual was quite close to Darling's proposed.
    Darling (or perhaps Brown) never had a proposal, or not one that we were told about. To their shame, they cancelled the spending review. So we'll never know what they were actually going to do, if indeed they knew. All that we had was effectively a spreadsheet showing the deficit going down, but without any indication of how they would make this happen.

    Maybe there would have been similar spending cuts to Osborne's. No one knows, they were cynically and deliberately trying to avoid specifying what they would do.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    RobD said:

    RobD said:
    Its not like we want good will from these people to conclude a trade deal before the next cliff edge right?
    Meh, they will always negotiate in their own interests.
    Their own interests used to be our interests too.
  • sirclive said:

    sirclive said:

    sirclive said:

    This is completely disingenuous.

    Taxes have gone up to deal with the deficits and parlous govt finances left by Brown, who operated on a spend/borrow now, tax later basis.
    However the debt has risen by 600bn (from memory) since 2010. Austerity was a complete failure and now we are planning to commit a fortune in the name of power hungry hypocritical career politicians.
    This will not end well.
    Debt rises until deficits fall and are removed. And even then debt will continue to rise unless the surplus is sufficient to deal with the interest on the debt as well as the debt itself. Austerity cut the UK deficit from 10% of GDP to 1.5% of GDP. But as long as a deficit exists debt will continue to rise.
    Exactly, how on earth can cutting a large deficit down to a small deficit signal 'the end of austerity'. The debt cannot fall without surpluses...when is that ever gonna happen?
    And I do not consider nearly 2trn as an acceptable level of debt.
    It won’t be. It’ll be like a credit card you never pay off. As long as you can afford the minimum payment every month the balance becomes immaterial. Just keep your fingers crossed you can keep affording to pay the interest.
    I cannot see how this is sustainable Inthe long run. Eventually your credit card gets declined.🤔
    Imagine now that your annual salary goes up buy 2% or so every year. If you get lucky then the interest paid is always the same percentage of that salary. You do rely on low interest rates from the markets, which might be harder for Labour.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824

    RobD said:

    RobD said:
    Its not like we want good will from these people to conclude a trade deal before the next cliff edge right?
    Meh, they will always negotiate in their own interests.
    Their own interests used to be our interests too.
    1/28th our interest.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358
    RobD said:
    Nominate Farage. Let them waste some time saying "NO!!!!!"
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    RobD said:
    This seems like a crazy level of bureaucrats following rules without pausing to think whether it makes sense.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    Via Guido say may not be true, but if it’s true then this gives Boris all sorts of ammunition just at the point of the debates.


    What ammunition . The UK is still a member . And therefore should act constructively.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    sirclive said:

    sirclive said:

    sirclive said:

    This is completely disingenuous.

    Taxes have gone up to deal with the deficits and parlous govt finances left by Brown, who operated on a spend/borrow now, tax later basis.
    However the debt has risen by 600bn (from memory) since 2010. Austerity was a complete failure and now we are planning to commit a fortune in the name of power hungry hypocritical career politicians.
    This will not end well.
    Debt rises until deficits fall and are removed. And even then debt will continue to rise unless the surplus is sufficient to deal with the interest on the debt as well as the debt itself. Austerity cut the UK deficit from 10% of GDP to 1.5% of GDP. But as long as a deficit exists debt will continue to rise.
    Exactly, how on earth can cutting a large deficit down to a small deficit signal 'the end of austerity'. The debt cannot fall without surpluses...when is that ever gonna happen?
    And I do not consider nearly 2trn as an acceptable level of debt.
    It won’t be. It’ll be like a credit card you never pay off. As long as you can afford the minimum payment every month the balance becomes immaterial. Just keep your fingers crossed you can keep affording to pay the interest.
    I cannot see how this is sustainable Inthe long run. Eventually your credit card gets declined.🤔
    What happens if you have borrowed £1tn at 1% and the rate rises say to 5%, and you have not paid it off and need to remortgage the country? That sounds like time to call in the receivers to me, and the idea it can't happen is nonsense.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:
    Its not like we want good will from these people to conclude a trade deal before the next cliff edge right?
    Meh, they will always negotiate in their own interests.
    Their own interests used to be our interests too.
    1/28th our interest.
    Yeah, that’s not true but good job with the lies and misrepresentation as usual.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    That's ridiculous. If the implementation of a rule does not help achieve the purpose of that rule it should not be implemented.
  • RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:
    Its not like we want good will from these people to conclude a trade deal before the next cliff edge right?
    Meh, they will always negotiate in their own interests.
    Their own interests used to be our interests too.
    1/28th our interest.
    Yeah, that’s not true but good job with the lies and misrepresentation as usual.
    And your statement wasn’t lies and misrepresentation? Give me a break.
  • algarkirk said:

    sirclive said:

    sirclive said:

    sirclive said:

    This is completely disingenuous.

    Taxes have gone up to deal with the deficits and parlous govt finances left by Brown, who operated on a spend/borrow now, tax later basis.
    However the debt has risen by 600bn (from memory) since 2010. Austerity was a complete failure and now we are planning to commit a fortune in the name of power hungry hypocritical career politicians.
    This will not end well.
    Debt rises until deficits fall and are removed. And even then debt will continue to rise unless the surplus is sufficient to deal with the interest on the debt as well as the debt itself. Austerity cut the UK deficit from 10% of GDP to 1.5% of GDP. But as long as a deficit exists debt will continue to rise.
    Exactly, how on earth can cutting a large deficit down to a small deficit signal 'the end of austerity'. The debt cannot fall without surpluses...when is that ever gonna happen?
    And I do not consider nearly 2trn as an acceptable level of debt.
    It won’t be. It’ll be like a credit card you never pay off. As long as you can afford the minimum payment every month the balance becomes immaterial. Just keep your fingers crossed you can keep affording to pay the interest.
    I cannot see how this is sustainable Inthe long run. Eventually your credit card gets declined.🤔
    What happens if you have borrowed £1tn at 1% and the rate rises say to 5%, and you have not paid it off and need to remortgage the country? That sounds like time to call in the receivers to me, and the idea it can't happen is nonsense.

    That's what happened with Greece and why the deficit needs to be under control but for the UK the debt mountain the rate can't simply rise to 5%. Its largely long-dated bonds fixed for 10-50 years. So only the deficit and a small amount of the mountain gets renewed each year.
  • Gabs2 said:

    RobD said:
    This seems like a crazy level of bureaucrats following rules without pausing to think whether it makes sense.
    No, the EU being a rules-based organisation, they have no choice but to go through the motions. Nothing will come of it of course.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358
    DeClare said:

    Local councils are starting to publish their lists of nominations:
    https://www.westminster.gov.uk/general-election-2019
    Brexit Party in Westminster North, waste of £500, Chuka Umanna facing the Liberal Party (the bit that didn't want to merge with the SDP) in Cities of London & Westminster.

    van Heck (Liberal) will appear on the ballot below Umunna (Liberal Deomocrat). Needed someone called Abbot or Aardvark.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    isam said:

    Still dont get what you are trying to say

    Not to worry. It's not of enormous importance. Although it could be that you DO get what I'm trying to say but suspect that I'm trying (and failing) to say something different and more interesting than is actually the case. That does happen.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153

    Farage is stark raving bonkers. Ranting and raving about corruption on Sky.

    He thought he'd be holding the balance of power in the election but instead he is being swept away into irrelevance...

    Should juts have said "job done" and supported Boris.
  • Johnson sticks to Uxbridge.
  • algarkirk said:

    sirclive said:

    sirclive said:

    sirclive said:

    This is completely disingenuous.

    Taxes have gone up to deal with the deficits and parlous govt finances left by Brown, who operated on a spend/borrow now, tax later basis.
    However the debt has risen by 600bn (from memory) since 2010. Austerity was a complete failure and now we are planning to commit a fortune in the name of power hungry hypocritical career politicians.
    This will not end well.
    Debt rises until deficits fall and are removed. And even then debt will continue to rise unless the surplus is sufficient to deal with the interest on the debt as well as the debt itself. Austerity cut the UK deficit from 10% of GDP to 1.5% of GDP. But as long as a deficit exists debt will continue to rise.
    Exactly, how on earth can cutting a large deficit down to a small deficit signal 'the end of austerity'. The debt cannot fall without surpluses...when is that ever gonna happen?
    And I do not consider nearly 2trn as an acceptable level of debt.
    It won’t be. It’ll be like a credit card you never pay off. As long as you can afford the minimum payment every month the balance becomes immaterial. Just keep your fingers crossed you can keep affording to pay the interest.
    I cannot see how this is sustainable Inthe long run. Eventually your credit card gets declined.🤔
    What happens if you have borrowed £1tn at 1% and the rate rises say to 5%, and you have not paid it off and need to remortgage the country? That sounds like time to call in the receivers to me, and the idea it can't happen is nonsense.

    Then don’t vote for the party most likely to make it happen!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    And that is what the people decided. Not every country has to be absorbed into the neighbouring super power.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153

    Johnson sticks to Uxbridge.

    As if there was ever any doubt... ;)
  • Johnson sticks to Uxbridge.

    No s**t Sherlock.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427

    algarkirk said:

    sirclive said:

    sirclive said:

    sirclive said:

    This is completely disingenuous.

    Taxes have gone up to deal with the deficits and parlous govt finances left by Brown, who operated on a spend/borrow now, tax later basis.
    However the debt has risen by 600bn (from memory) since 2010. Austerity was a complete failure and now we are planning to commit a fortune in the name of power hungry hypocritical career politicians.
    This will not end well.
    Debt rises until deficits fall and are removed. And even then debt will continue to rise unless the surplus is sufficient to deal with the interest on the debt as well as the debt itself. Austerity cut the UK deficit from 10% of GDP to 1.5% of GDP. But as long as a deficit exists debt will continue to rise.
    Exactly, how on earth can cutting a large deficit down to a small deficit signal 'the end of austerity'. The debt cannot fall without surpluses...when is that ever gonna happen?
    And I do not consider nearly 2trn as an acceptable level of debt.
    It won’t be. It’ll be like a credit card you never pay off. As long as you can afford the minimum payment every month the balance becomes immaterial. Just keep your fingers crossed you can keep affording to pay the interest.
    I cannot see how this is sustainable Inthe long run. Eventually your credit card gets declined.🤔
    What happens if you have borrowed £1tn at 1% and the rate rises say to 5%, and you have not paid it off and need to remortgage the country? That sounds like time to call in the receivers to me, and the idea it can't happen is nonsense.

    Then don’t vote for the party most likely to make it happen!
    Don’t vote for the Conservative Party who are deliberately pursuing a policy that will reduce the size of our economy in real terms and reduce the tax take?

    Ok.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320

    Farage is stark raving bonkers. Ranting and raving about corruption on Sky.

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1195010065947869186
  • RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    dr_spyn said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Health of politicians rarely mentioned at General Elections, but Guido is speculating about the significance of Corbyn's fresnel lens.

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1195016391172218880

    Perhaps there will be photographs of him exercising in a park gym once again.

    Wow. That's straight out of the Stone/Trump playbook. The precise same thing was spread about Hilary. Quite dark really.
    After reading When Illness Strikes The Leader, and In Sickness and In Power, there are many examples of incapacitated politicians holding power when unfit to do so. The health of politicians is rarely touched upon at election times. Political parties have done their damnedest to spin about the health of their leaders, think Churchill in 1953, or Charles Kennedy more recently. How far journalists are in on the secret is another matter.

    Angela Merkel's shaking triggered off speculation, and it would be a surprise if other governments weren't trying to work out if it was symptomatic of something major or minor.

    It may be that Jeremy Corbyn's health is good, or it may not.
    It's not Corbyn I'm worried about, it's Johnson.

    Is he the most obese Prime Minister in history?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    RobD said:

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    And that is what the people decided. Not every country has to be absorbed into the neighbouring super power.
    The people were lied to, thinking they would be richer and safer as a result.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824

    RobD said:

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    And that is what the people decided. Not every country has to be absorbed into the neighbouring super power.
    The people were lied to, thinking they would be richer and safer as a result.
    I think we have a severe case of red bus syndrome here.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358

    dr_spyn said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Health of politicians rarely mentioned at General Elections, but Guido is speculating about the significance of Corbyn's fresnel lens.

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1195016391172218880

    Perhaps there will be photographs of him exercising in a park gym once again.

    Wow. That's straight out of the Stone/Trump playbook. The precise same thing was spread about Hilary. Quite dark really.
    After reading When Illness Strikes The Leader, and In Sickness and In Power, there are many examples of incapacitated politicians holding power when unfit to do so. The health of politicians is rarely touched upon at election times. Political parties have done their damnedest to spin about the health of their leaders, think Churchill in 1953, or Charles Kennedy more recently. How far journalists are in on the secret is another matter.

    Angela Merkel's shaking triggered off speculation, and it would be a surprise if other governments weren't trying to work out if it was symptomatic of something major or minor.

    It may be that Jeremy Corbyn's health is good, or it may not.
    It's not Corbyn I'm worried about, it's Johnson.

    Is he the most obese Prime Minister in history?
    Got some way to go to beat late years Churchill.....
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
    We’re 6th or 7th actually, and falling.
  • dr_spyn said:

    Health of politicians rarely mentioned at General Elections, but Guido is speculating about the significance of Corbyn's fresnel lens.

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1195016391172218880

    Perhaps there will be photographs of him exercising in a park gym once again.

    Wow. That's straight out of the Stone/Trump playbook. The precise same thing was spread about Hilary. Quite dark really.
    I think over here it would backfire. Far more likely to garner sympathy for him. I know that was my first reaction and I can't stand the guy as a rule.
    My first reaction was that Guido's a tnuc, but not the first time I've thought that.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    edited November 2019
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    And that is what the people decided. Not every country has to be absorbed into the neighbouring super power.
    The people were lied to, thinking they would be richer and safer as a result.
    I think we have a severe case of red bus syndrome here.
    Sweep it under a rug all you want but it doesn’t make it untrue.

    People are going to be very angry in a few years time.
  • Farage is stark raving bonkers. Ranting and raving about corruption on Sky.

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1195010065947869186
    Politics Nigel
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Still dont get what you are trying to say

    Not to worry. It's not of enormous importance. Although it could be that you DO get what I'm trying to say but suspect that I'm trying (and failing) to say something different and more interesting than is actually the case. That does happen.
    Completely lost now!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Is that the Amy who accosted David Davies and accused him of being a Remoaner?
  • Farage is stark raving bonkers. Ranting and raving about corruption on Sky.

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1195010065947869186
    He wouldn't be saying any of this if he had been rung up and offered US Ambassador.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    So adhering to the rules you signed upto is a bad thing . Will the UK also be ignoring these in any future trade deals . The UK is acting in bad faith and should honour it’s obligations.

  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    sirclive said:


    Exactly, how on earth can cutting a large deficit down to a small deficit signal 'the end of austerity'. The debt cannot fall without surpluses...when is that ever gonna happen?

    Growth above the deficit is probably enough. If you look back over the last 50ish years, we hardly ever had surpluses, maybe 5 years out of those 50, yet debt/gdp fell from 100% to 30%ish ….. until the Gordon Brown wrecking ball came along.

    I do wonder how several countries will cope fiscally in a coming recession though. Spain and France are at 100%ish debt/gdp, the USA is above that and spending like a drunken sailor on shoreleave. Italy is heading towards 140%. Unlike a decade back, there won't be much room to run big deficits, and it's going to hurt.
  • DeClare said:

    Local councils are starting to publish their lists of nominations:
    https://www.westminster.gov.uk/general-election-2019
    Brexit Party in Westminster North, waste of £500, Chuka Umanna facing the Liberal Party (the bit that didn't want to merge with the SDP) in Cities of London & Westminster.

    Liberal Democrats are describing themselves as "Liberal Democrats - To stop Brexit".
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,794

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    So remind me again: what is the no doubt well-reasoned, not even slightly insane reason why we are not appointing a Commissioner despite the fact that we said we would obey the rules when we asked for an extension? Or are you another convert to the Church of Let's Govern Like An Eight Year Old Brat.
  • TIGFC ?

    They're a Football Club now?
  • Evening all and just watch Farage rant about Tory HQ getting at Brexit candidates to stand down. FFS if they are intimidated enough to stand aside for that reason they shouldn't be standing in the first place. He just accept the reality that following the 2016 vote he has become yesterday's man. Assuming Boris wins the GE and enacts his Brexit Bill then UKIP and the Brexit Party will both cease to have any reason to exist.

    Now we will start to learn more about which candidates are standing in which seats and assess the real contests. I am old enough to remember when the Liberals didn't put up candidates in a great many seats and contests were between Tory and Labour candidates with the odd Communist thrown in. A great many voters will be angry when they realise that the girl guide from Bearsden has marched them up to the top of the hill only to learn that either the Tories or Labour have already beaten them to it. Liberals with fewer than 30 MPs looks increasingly likely so maybe she wont last to the next election, assuming she holds her seat of course.
  • For shame! Isn't there a Pacifist Elvis? :(
  • RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
    We’re 6th or 7th actually, and falling.
    I think it is sad that you have such a low opinion of this great island nation
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Noo said:

    sirclive said:

    This is completely disingenuous.

    Taxes have gone up to deal with the deficits and parlous govt finances left by Brown, who operated on a spend/borrow now, tax later basis.
    However the debt has risen by 600bn (from memory) since 2010. Austerity was a complete failure and now we are planning to commit a fortune in the name of power hungry hypocritical career politicians.
    This will not end well.
    Debt rises until deficits fall and are removed. And even then debt will continue to rise unless the surplus is sufficient to deal with the interest on the debt as well as the debt itself. Austerity cut the UK deficit from 10% of GDP to 1.5% of GDP. But as long as a deficit exists debt will continue to rise.
    Doesn't the deficit include debt interest payments?
    Yes. The reason that people go on about ‘austerity’, despite government spending going up every year since 2010, is that the ‘department’ of debt interest is now spending upwards of £40bn a year servicing the 88% of GDP that the government has borrowed over time - the vast majority of which since 2008.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_national_debt
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,794

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
    If we are not an insignificant island then why are you sanctioning poor behaviour? Or do you think significance derives from acting like a brat?
  • RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
    We’re 6th or 7th actually, and falling.
    I think it is sad that you have such a low opinion of this great island nation
    Facts, huh? How dare they be inconvenient?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
    We’re 6th or 7th actually, and falling.
    I think it is sad that you have such a low opinion of this great island nation
    What’s great about it?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,794
    (I didn't realise I'd responded to you twice @Big_G_NorthWales )
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    Whats TIGFC
  • RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
    We’re 6th or 7th actually, and falling.
    I find this superpower thing amusing. Who wants the responsibility of being a superpower? Most leavers I meet take the view that the U.K. has done it’s bit and would like to now retire from being a major player in global affairs. It’s Remainers that have a superpower fantasy, grounded in a post imperial hangover.
  • Whats TIGFC
    The Independent Group for Change
  • viewcode said:

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    So remind me again: what is the no doubt well-reasoned, not even slightly insane reason why we are not appointing a Commissioner despite the fact that we said we would obey the rules when we asked for an extension? Or are you another convert to the Church of Let's Govern Like An Eight Year Old Brat.
    I am not opposed to appointing a commissioner but to take the UK to court in the middle of a Brexit GE demonstrates beyond any doubt the EU have no ability to apply common sense
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    The UK is not an island, nor is it a nation.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360

    algarkirk said:

    sirclive said:

    sirclive said:

    sirclive said:

    This is completely disingenuous.

    Taxes have gone up to deal with the deficits and parlous govt finances left by Brown, who operated on a spend/borrow now, tax later basis.
    However the debt has risen by 600bn (from memory) since 2010. Austerity was a complete failure and now we are planning to commit a fortune in the name of power hungry hypocritical career politicians.
    This will not end well.
    Debt rises until deficits fall and are removed. And even then debt will continue to rise unless the surplus is sufficient to deal with the interest on the debt as well as the debt itself. Austerity cut the UK deficit from 10% of GDP to 1.5% of GDP. But as long as a deficit exists debt will continue to rise.
    Exactly, how on earth can cutting a large deficit down to a small deficit signal 'the end of austerity'. The debt cannot fall without surpluses...when is that ever gonna happen?
    And I do not consider nearly 2trn as an acceptable level of debt.
    It won’t be. It’ll be like a credit card you never pay off. As long as you can afford the minimum payment every month the balance becomes immaterial. Just keep your fingers crossed you can keep affording to pay the interest.
    I cannot see how this is sustainable Inthe long run. Eventually your credit card gets declined.🤔
    What happens if you have borrowed £1tn at 1% and the rate rises say to 5%, and you have not paid it off and need to remortgage the country? That sounds like time to call in the receivers to me, and the idea it can't happen is nonsense.

    That's what happened with Greece and why the deficit needs to be under control but for the UK the debt mountain the rate can't simply rise to 5%. Its largely long-dated bonds fixed for 10-50 years. So only the deficit and a small amount of the mountain gets renewed each year.
    Thanks. Perhaps I am being simplistic, but doesn't that just transfer the risk to our grandchildren unless there is a plan for paying it off?

  • Memo to Boris: If you're struggling to find any candidates, I wouldn't mind spending a few weeks in Brussels, all expenses paid and a boost to my pension as well. I know it's a rather dull city but I could hack it for a while, after all the restaurants are good if someone else is paying.
  • RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
    We’re 6th or 7th actually, and falling.
    So who are the top 5 (or 6)?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited November 2019

    A great many voters will be angry when they realise that the girl guide from Bearsden has marched them up to the top of the hill only to learn that either the Tories or Labour have already beaten them to it. Liberals with fewer than 30 MPs looks increasingly likely so maybe she wont last to the next election, assuming she holds her seat of course.

    Do you think, if it's possible, you can lay off the bile and nastiness? Or go and post it on Guido Fawkes' website where you will be in better company.

    I see no real evidence that the Liberal Democrats (don't be a prat calling them Liberals) are 'increasingly likely' to poll under 30 seats, though they might.

    Anecdotally, my lifelong Conservative voting brother told me last night that he is voting LibDem. He thinks Brexit is a shambles. London marginal.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637

    Whats TIGFC
    The Independent Group for Change
    Thanks i thought the FC was 2 naughty sweary words used by her absers
  • Farage's deranged rants are rather going to put the kibosh on the Labour/LibDem/SNP attack line that Boris did some deal with him, are they not?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824

    Memo to Boris: If you're struggling to find any candidates, I wouldn't mind spending a few weeks in Brussels, all expenses paid and a boost to my pension as well. I know it's a rather dull city but I could hack it for a while, after all the restaurants are good if someone else is paying.

    He should find the most ranty eurosceptic retiring MP and put them forward as a candidate.

    Still baffles me that there is a political test for appointees, and that those who are not sufficiently committed to the cause are excluded.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    sirclive said:

    sirclive said:

    sirclive said:

    This is completely disingenuous.

    Taxes have gone up to deal with the deficits and parlous govt finances left by Brown, who operated on a spend/borrow now, tax later basis.
    However the debt has risen by 600bn (from memory) since 2010. Austerity was a complete failure and now we are planning to commit a fortune in the name of power hungry hypocritical career politicians.
    This will not end well.
    Debt rises until deficits fall and are removed. And even then debt will continue to rise unless the surplus is sufficient to deal with the interest on the debt as well as the debt itself. Austerity cut the UK deficit from 10% of GDP to 1.5% of GDP. But as long as a deficit exists debt will continue to rise.
    Exactly, how on earth can cutting a large deficit down to a small deficit signal 'the end of austerity'. The debt cannot fall without surpluses...when is that ever gonna happen?
    And I do not consider nearly 2trn as an acceptable level of debt.
    It won’t be. It’ll be like a credit card you never pay off. As long as you can afford the minimum payment every month the balance becomes immaterial. Just keep your fingers crossed you can keep affording to pay the interest.
    I cannot see how this is sustainable Inthe long run. Eventually your credit card gets declined.🤔
    What happens if you have borrowed £1tn at 1% and the rate rises say to 5%, and you have not paid it off and need to remortgage the country? That sounds like time to call in the receivers to me, and the idea it can't happen is nonsense.

    That's what happened with Greece and why the deficit needs to be under control but for the UK the debt mountain the rate can't simply rise to 5%. Its largely long-dated bonds fixed for 10-50 years. So only the deficit and a small amount of the mountain gets renewed each year.
    Thanks. Perhaps I am being simplistic, but doesn't that just transfer the risk to our grandchildren unless there is a plan for paying it off?

    We will never, ever, ever pay off our national debt.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
    We’re 6th or 7th actually, and falling.
    So who are the top 5 (or 6)?
    Us, china, germany, Japan, India, France, uk
  • Noo said:

    The UK is not an island, nor is it a nation.

    It is a member of the UN in its own right.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    isam said:

    Completely lost now!

    I know! :smile:
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
    We’re 6th or 7th actually, and falling.
    I find this superpower thing amusing. Who wants the responsibility of being a superpower? Most leavers I meet take the view that the U.K. has done it’s bit and would like to now retire from being a major player in global affairs. It’s Remainers that have a superpower fantasy, grounded in a post imperial hangover.
    :D
    I've only just twigged that you're an elaborate parody. Well played, sir/madam. Well played.
  • RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
    We’re 6th or 7th actually, and falling.
    So who are the top 5 (or 6)?
    USA
    China
    Japan
    Germany
    France
    UK
    India/Brazil etc.

    But you’re looking at absolute GDP in dollars. In PPP terms, which really affects the price of fish, we’ve been tenth or so for ages.

    Based on size and nature of economy we’ll be in or around the top ten for the lifetime of anybody reading this.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    TIGFC ?

    They're a Football Club now?
    No a restaurant chain Thank its god Fridays conundrum...
  • RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
    We’re 6th or 7th actually, and falling.
    I think it is sad that you have such a low opinion of this great island nation
    What’s great about it?
    What a sad question
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    The UK is not an island, nor is it a nation.

    It is a member of the UN in its own right.
    The UK is a state (pun incidental).
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
    We’re 6th or 7th actually, and falling.
    I think it is sad that you have such a low opinion of this great island nation
    What’s great about it?
    What a sad question
    What a sadder answer.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824

    Farage's deranged rants are rather going to put the kibosh on the Labour/LibDem/SNP attack line that Boris did some deal with him, are they not?

    Wargamed? :p
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,794

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
    We’re 6th or 7th actually, and falling.
    I think it is sad that you have such a low opinion of this great island nation
    What’s great about it?
    What a sad question
    Stop being abusive.
  • viewcode said:

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
    We’re 6th or 7th actually, and falling.
    I think it is sad that you have such a low opinion of this great island nation
    What’s great about it?
    What a sad question
    Stop being abusive.
    Pardon
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047

    Evening all and just watch Farage rant about Tory HQ getting at Brexit candidates to stand down. FFS if they are intimidated enough to stand aside for that reason they shouldn't be standing in the first place. He just accept the reality that following the 2016 vote he has become yesterday's man. Assuming Boris wins the GE and enacts his Brexit Bill then UKIP and the Brexit Party will both cease to have any reason to exist.

    Now we will start to learn more about which candidates are standing in which seats and assess the real contests. I am old enough to remember when the Liberals didn't put up candidates in a great many seats and contests were between Tory and Labour candidates with the odd Communist thrown in. A great many voters will be angry when they realise that the girl guide from Bearsden has marched them up to the top of the hill only to learn that either the Tories or Labour have already beaten them to it. Liberals with fewer than 30 MPs looks increasingly likely so maybe she wont last to the next election, assuming she holds her seat of course.

    Pray for a Labour government. They promised a large increase in funding for mental health
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    viewcode said:

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    So remind me again: what is the no doubt well-reasoned, not even slightly insane reason why we are not appointing a Commissioner despite the fact that we said we would obey the rules when we asked for an extension? Or are you another convert to the Church of Let's Govern Like An Eight Year Old Brat.
    I am not opposed to appointing a commissioner but to take the UK to court in the middle of a Brexit GE demonstrates beyond any doubt the EU have no ability to apply common sense
    It doesn’t say they’re going to take the UK to court .
  • nico67 said:

    viewcode said:

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    So remind me again: what is the no doubt well-reasoned, not even slightly insane reason why we are not appointing a Commissioner despite the fact that we said we would obey the rules when we asked for an extension? Or are you another convert to the Church of Let's Govern Like An Eight Year Old Brat.
    I am not opposed to appointing a commissioner but to take the UK to court in the middle of a Brexit GE demonstrates beyond any doubt the EU have no ability to apply common sense
    It doesn’t say they’re going to take the UK to court .
    So what is the point and what powers do they have
  • FlannerFlanner Posts: 437
    Well, here in Witney we've got (in candidates' alphabetical order) a Labour, a Tory and a LibDem.

    No-one else: in a seat where the LibDems only narrowly beat Brexit in a Euro election just six months ago that drove the Tories into fourth, behind the Greens - and Labour into fifth, just a few votes ahead of ChUK (remember them?)

    After years of UKIP, Greens, Wessex Regionalists, Monster Ravings and all the rest: the shortest ballot paper since 1987.

    Amazing what pacts can do.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    dr_spyn said:

    Health of politicians rarely mentioned at General Elections, but Guido is speculating about the significance of Corbyn's fresnel lens.

    ttps://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1195016391172218880

    Perhaps there will be photographs of him exercising in a park gym once again.

    Even by Guido’s standards, that’s below the belt. He’s got no evidence for his assertion, just a bunch of speculation.

    UK politics becoming more American, and not in a good way.
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483

    DeClare said:

    Local councils are starting to publish their lists of nominations:
    https://www.westminster.gov.uk/general-election-2019
    Brexit Party in Westminster North, waste of £500, Chuka Umanna facing the Liberal Party (the bit that didn't want to merge with the SDP) in Cities of London & Westminster.

    Liberal Democrats are describing themselves as "Liberal Democrats - To stop Brexit".
    They don't seem to have that slogan in strong leave voting areas that I've checked.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    Flanner said:

    Well, here in Witney we've got (in candidates' alphabetical order) a Labour, a Tory and a LibDem.

    No-one else: in a seat where the LibDems only narrowly beat Brexit in a Euro election just six months ago that drove the Tories into fourth, behind the Greens - and Labour into fifth, just a few votes ahead of ChUK (remember them?)

    After years of UKIP, Greens, Wessex Regionalists, Monster Ravings and all the rest: the shortest ballot paper since 1987.

    Amazing what pacts can do.

    Any chance of it not being a Tory hold?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
    We’re 6th or 7th actually, and falling.
    I find this superpower thing amusing. Who wants the responsibility of being a superpower? Most leavers I meet take the view that the U.K. has done it’s bit and would like to now retire from being a major player in global affairs. It’s Remainers that have a superpower fantasy, grounded in a post imperial hangover.
    ..
  • Away from election nonsense, these NHS figures are dreadful. I do wonder whether the time has come to hypothecate their tax take funding the NHS and have some serious conversations about managing demand and expectations; and finding more cash.
  • Flanner said:

    Well, here in Witney we've got (in candidates' alphabetical order) a Labour, a Tory and a LibDem.

    No-one else: in a seat where the LibDems only narrowly beat Brexit in a Euro election just six months ago that drove the Tories into fourth, behind the Greens - and Labour into fifth, just a few votes ahead of ChUK (remember them?)

    After years of UKIP, Greens, Wessex Regionalists, Monster Ravings and all the rest: the shortest ballot paper since 1987.

    Amazing what pacts can do.

    Have nominations closed?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    edited November 2019

    RobD said:
    Just hand more votes to Boris to get out
    Don’t follow the rules, you face consequences shocker.

    You guys have all gone mad.
    Not really. It is just how it looks. Same as Tusk's tirade yesterday

    It just strengthens the case against being in their cartel
    Except it doesn’t. It changes nothing. We’ll still be a poorer and insignificant little island on the edge of a superpower.
    The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will not be an insignificant island, that is just words those who cannot accept brexit indulge in to make themselves feel better
    We’re 6th or 7th actually, and falling.
    I think it is sad that you have such a low opinion of this great island nation
    What’s great about it?
    What a sad question
    Why? It’s a bit odd to consider this country great for no reason.

    It’s my home and I have no desire to leave apart from perhaps to an independent Scotland at some point in the future.

    Yes there’s some very good things about this country but there’s also some very bad things.

    Top of the list is the toxic effect WW2 has on our arrogant belief that we’re better than all of the other nations in Europe. That we’re somehow above them.
This discussion has been closed.