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  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,777

    Foxy said:

    The Conservatives shortening in Labour-held East Lothian (Lab Maj = 3,083)

    SNP 10/11
    SCon 9/4
    SLab 5/2
    SLD 50/1

    The SNP PPC is Kenny MacAskill, the Justice Secretary 2007-2014.

    You cant have it both ways Stuart! Either we are collapsing at the heel of a valliant Nicola or she is just hoping Alex Salmond's Indictment isn't served until after 12th December.
    You misunderstand elementary voter behaviour. The Scottish Conservatives might be on the same battlefield, but we are fighting different demons. I’ve never claimed that you are about to be crushed by valiant Nicola. If you suffer badly (and I’m yet to be convinced on that point), it will be entirely self-inflicted friendly fire.

    We are not really aiming to convert people straight from the Tories. That is incredibly difficult, and not remotely cost-effective. The best we can do is encourage folk to step away from the extremism of the SCAUP and onto more neutral ground.

    Meanwhile, our real battle is primarily logistical: we simply have to get our existing, identified supporters registered, and to actually cast their vote.

    If you think you are going to hold seats by talking folk into straight switching, you are very naive.
    Quite right. This is a low turnout election and motivation is key, and encouraging unionists to the SLD camp too, in SCon held seats anyway.

    I have made some long shot bets on the SLD on the seats that were SLD until 2015. If there are to be SLDgains, surely these are where they will be, and Davidson Remainer Tories the switchers.
    - “... long shot bets on the SLD on the seats that were SLD until 2015”

    Take a wee keek at:
    - Gordon 12/1
    - Argyll & Bute 6/1
    - Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch & Strathspey 20/1

    Do your own research.
    'Wee keek'! Whatever Scottish independence has to offer I'd suggest that you can't be trusted to have your own language :)

  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,899
    nico67 said:

    The Tories firewall is the BP standing down in those 317 seats . That means they can direct more resources to other seats .

    But they don’t want to do a Hilary Clinton and take their eye off the ball , with seemingly locked down seats throwing up some shock results . And of course there is the chance that some complacency might set in with Tory voters in those seats .

    Politics doesn't work like this - seriously.

    The Conservatives will still work in the 317 seats - in fact, that's where most of their effort will be because that's where most of their activists are I suspect.

    Stephen Timms and a dozen Labour activists were in East Ham High Street today - Timms has a wafer thin 39,883 majority so while I understand why he was out talking to his constituents (they aren't technically at the moment) what were the other activists doing? Why weren't they out working to defend Dagenham & Rainham or Ilford North which the Conservatives have targeted or going up to Chingford and Woodford Green which, if Labour were doing better, would be a plausible objective?

    I know the local East Ham Conservatives went up to Chingford and Woodford Green to support IDS but again I'm thinking - why? They are miles ahead and should be looking to gain Dagenham & Rainham or Ilford North rather than defending seats they won't lose.

    As a young Liberal I was told "if you can't win where you are, find where you can win and go there".
  • Floater said:

    Good old jezza....

    Fury as Jeremy Corbyn says ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi should have been ARRESTED and questions the US military's account of how he blew up himself and his two children

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7680707/Jeremy-Corbyn-heckled-labelled-terrorist-sympathiser-visit-Glasgow.html

    But he would trust Russian accounts over Salisbury.....

    Go figure.....
    Do you trust the account given by President Trump?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Another awesome day from Labour I see

    Jezbollah hiding from a voter who dared question his friendships with terrorists

    The Labour 4 day a week wheeze with Shadow ministers disagreeing about if it applies to NHS or not

    Incidentally, how do they find the extra staff for this or is it ok if people just die?

    Then we have John Ashworth - this is Abbott levels of crapness

    https://order-order.com/2019/11/13/jon-ashworth-disagrees-nhs-privatisation/

    What a shower, a nasty, vile anti western shower.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,722

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    The Conservatives shortening in Labour-held East Lothian (Lab Maj = 3,083)

    SNP 10/11
    SCon 9/4
    SLab 5/2
    SLD 50/1

    The SNP PPC is Kenny MacAskill, the Justice Secretary 2007-2014.

    You cant have it both ways Stuart! Either we are collapsing at the heel of a valliant Nicola or she is just hoping Alex Salmond's Indictment isn't served until after 12th December.
    You misunderstand elementary voter behaviour. The Scottish Conservatives might be on the same battlefield, but we are fighting different demons. I’ve never claimed that you are about to be crushed by valiant Nicola. If you suffer badly (and I’m yet to be convinced on that point), it will be entirely self-inflicted friendly fire.

    We are not really aiming to convert people straight from the Tories. That is incredibly difficult, and not remotely cost-effective. The best we can do is encourage folk to step away from the extremism of the SCAUP and onto more neutral ground.

    Meanwhile, our real battle is primarily logistical: we simply have to get our existing, identified supporters registered, and to actually cast their vote.

    If you think you are going to hold seats by talking folk into straight switching, you are very naive.
    Quite right. This is a low turnout election and motivation is key, and encouraging unionists to the SLD camp too, in SCon held seats anyway.

    I have made some long shot bets on the SLD on the seats that were SLD until 2015. If there are to be SLDgains, surely these are where they will be, and Davidson Remainer Tories the switchers.
    - “... long shot bets on the SLD on the seats that were SLD until 2015”

    Take a wee keek at:
    - Gordon 12/1
    - Argyll & Bute 6/1
    - Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch & Strathspey 20/1

    Do your own research.
    I have a little on each of those, but only the price of a pint.
    Wise. I’m expecting those prices to come in as the Scottish polls start to dribble in and the lights go up.

    Unless Swinson and/or Rennie blow up. Which is entirely feasible.
    I reckon that Unionist Scots like to see their party leaders on a national stage, as they did with Brown, Kennedy, Steel. Even to an extent Davidson, who is probably the best known Unionist Scottish politician South of the Border.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    nico67 said:

    The Tories firewall is the BP standing down in those 317 seats . That means they can direct more resources to other seats .

    But they don’t want to do a Hilary Clinton and take their eye off the ball , with seemingly locked down seats throwing up some shock results . And of course there is the chance that some complacency might set in with Tory voters in those seats .

    Labour have really no path to a majority , the absolute best they can really do is to be the biggest party but even that would need a perfect storm to occur .

    We’ve had some surprise results over the last few years but it’s very hard to see another one . I of course would love to be proved wrong .

    If you’re an anti Tory then two things would have to happen to begin with . Much bigger turnout in Remainers and a big jump in younger people voting .

    It presupposes that The Tories have improved their approach. The 2017 General Election study implied that they weren't well prepared in Lab/Con marginals, and poor knowledge and data about voters in too many constituencies hampered their progress
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Just noticed this on twitter.

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1194729148058603521

    might raise an eyebrow if it is new.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Floater said:

    Another awesome day from Labour I see

    Jezbollah hiding from a voter who dared question his friendships with terrorists

    The Labour 4 day a week wheeze with Shadow ministers disagreeing about if it applies to NHS or not

    Incidentally, how do they find the extra staff for this or is it ok if people just die?

    Then we have John Ashworth - this is Abbott levels of crapness

    https://order-order.com/2019/11/13/jon-ashworth-disagrees-nhs-privatisation/

    What a shower, a nasty, vile anti western shower.

    Sources Daily Mail, Guido, and other tax avoiding Billionaires
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    Foxy said:

    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Strategically a 323+ seats Tory win is better for both the Lib Dems and SNP compared to propping up a very weak minority Labour Gov't.

    Not if you want to stay in the EU.
    The refusal of the LibDems to stand aside in seats held by Labour Remainers shows that they are not prioritising remaining in the EU.

    LibDem votes and seats are their true priorities.
    Remind me how many Lab candidates have stood down to favour other anti-Tory parties...
    It's taking some time for @SandyRentool to count them all up. :wink:
    Only cos Wor Lass nabbed the tablet!

    We aren't the ones wibbling about a 'Remain Alliance'.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited November 2019
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    junius said:

    What seems to be lacking in candidates of any/all parties is 'gravitas'.
    Can anyone suggest a candidate who has shown they have this quality ?

    It's hard to define, admittedly, nor would current trends suggest people want gravitas. Starmer has some, I'd say.
    Fenman said:

    Six by elections tonight. Some interesting ones.

    Do tell.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234
    Re the EU and an FTA.

    I think the EU and the UK will agree an interim free trade agreement by year end, that will contain relatively little regulatory divergence. The real, final free trade agreement will then end up being negotiated ad nauseum for the next decade or so, and may be superseded by events.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    About that Con lead. :D

    Ah, smug (triumphalist) mode. :)
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited November 2019
    Floater said:

    Another awesome day from Labour I see

    Jezbollah hiding from a voter who dared question his friendships with terrorists

    The Labour 4 day a week wheeze with Shadow ministers disagreeing about if it applies to NHS or not

    Incidentally, how do they find the extra staff for this or is it ok if people just die?

    Then we have John Ashworth - this is Abbott levels of crapness

    https://order-order.com/2019/11/13/jon-ashworth-disagrees-nhs-privatisation/

    What a shower, a nasty, vile anti western shower.

    Only people who inhabit these types of forums are likely to take much notice . We forget sometimes most of the public just aren’t interested . The debates and the key parts of the manifestos might get more awareness but really members of this forum are really not a great representation of the general public .
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    I see Frank Field has gotten the registration for his party in in time

    http://search.electoralcommission.org.uk/English/Registrations/PP10337

    An independent tag not good enough for Mr Field!
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    New YouGov tables out and the Tories are doing better with working class C2DEs on 47% than they are nationally on 42% (they are on 38% with middle class ABC1s and still lead with middle class voters but less strongly).

    Labour are now doing better with middle class ABC1s on 29% to the 27% they are on with C2DEs. The LDs are far higher with middle class ABC1s on 19% to the 9% they are on with working class voters.

    Tories lead 54% to 20% in the South, 42% to 29% in the Midlands and are just 1% behind Labour in the North, 37% to 38%.

    Labour lead in London still 40% to 28% for the Tories and in Scotland the SNP are on 41%, the Tories on 25% and Labour and the LDs tied on 14%.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/w3ohbvr6zt/Sky_TheTimes_VI_191112_w.pdf

    Fits with the poll th eother day showing Labour support strongly correlated with higher levels of education (which wil ltend to translate into ABC1 jobs, though of course it doesn't always).
    The Tories still lead with ABC1s, although Labour perform slightly better with ABC1s now than C2DEs the LDs do best percentage wise with ABC1s
    Pensioners disproportionately go down as c2de, even if they are fairly flush, which explains a lot of the blue-collar blue support
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156

    Foxy said:

    The Conservatives shortening in Labour-held East Lothian (Lab Maj = 3,083)

    SNP 10/11
    SCon 9/4
    SLab 5/2
    SLD 50/1

    The SNP PPC is Kenny MacAskill, the Justice Secretary 2007-2014.

    You cant have it both ways Stuart! Either we are collapsing at the heel of a valliant Nicola or she is just hoping Alex Salmond's Indictment isn't served until after 12th December.
    You misunderstand elementary voter behaviour. The Scottish Conservatives might be on the same battlefield, but we are fighting different demons. I’ve never claimed that you are about to be crushed by valiant Nicola. If you suffer badly (and I’m yet to be convinced on that point), it will be entirely self-inflicted friendly fire.

    We are not really aiming to convert people straight from the Tories. That is incredibly difficult, and not remotely cost-effective. The best we can do is encourage folk to step away from the extremism of the SCAUP and onto more neutral ground.

    Meanwhile, our real battle is primarily logistical: we simply have to get our existing, identified supporters registered, and to actually cast their vote.

    If you think you are going to hold seats by talking folk into straight switching, you are very naive.
    Quite right. This is a low turnout election and motivation is key, and encouraging unionists to the SLD camp too, in SCon held seats anyway.

    I have made some long shot bets on the SLD on the seats that were SLD until 2015. If there are to be SLDgains, surely these are where they will be, and Davidson Remainer Tories the switchers.
    Do your own research.
    But that's what I have PB for, so I don't need to!
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788

    nico67 said:

    In terms of voter registration a quite unexpected surge in registrations yesterday .

    A 110,000 new registrations in the 18 to 34 age group . This is a bit of a shock which is 60,000 more than the previous day , I can’t think of anything news worthy that would cause this .

    It could be as simple as a load of unis put registrations.for their students all on the same day. These days when students reigster for the year, they basically have to opt out of the uni trying to register to vote on their behalf.
    I saw my first TV ad of this election telling people to register to vote yesterday. Maybe that's the reason?
  • More evidence labour are going to get at least 30%.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Foxy said:

    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Strategically a 323+ seats Tory win is better for both the Lib Dems and SNP compared to propping up a very weak minority Labour Gov't.

    Not if you want to stay in the EU.
    The refusal of the LibDems to stand aside in seats held by Labour Remainers shows that they are not prioritising remaining in the EU.

    LibDem votes and seats are their true priorities.
    Remind me how many Lab candidates have stood down to favour other anti-Tory parties...
    It's taking some time for @SandyRentool to count them all up. :wink:
    Only cos Wor Lass nabbed the tablet!

    We aren't the ones wibbling about a 'Remain Alliance'.
    Labour could have significantly reduced the chance of a Tory majority by cutting a few deals with the Remain Alliance.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    30% guaranteed. Can they get higher.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Strategically a 323+ seats Tory win is better for both the Lib Dems and SNP compared to propping up a very weak minority Labour Gov't.

    Not if you want to stay in the EU.
    The refusal of the LibDems to stand aside in seats held by Labour Remainers shows that they are not prioritising remaining in the EU.

    LibDem votes and seats are their true priorities.
    Anyone would think they were a political party or something
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited November 2019
    dr_spyn said:

    Just noticed this on twitter.

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1194729148058603521

    might raise an eyebrow if it is new.

    Looking at the crossbreaks it's absurd (not this poll just in general).

    Labour lead amongst public sector workers. Fair enough you say. But they also lead amongst private sector workers as well.

    Labour lead amongst people who work.

    That's just mind boggling that they can lead amongst the working population and be behind overall by 10 points.
  • Oh btw, after a couple of days of respite, i got my letterbox jammed with more lib dem propaganda. Nothing from anybody else yet.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    edited November 2019
    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    I wonder what the change in the tory lead would be now over the last week not including the Kanter poll with big methodological changes.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Strategically a 323+ seats Tory win is better for both the Lib Dems and SNP compared to propping up a very weak minority Labour Gov't.

    Not if you want to stay in the EU.
    The refusal of the LibDems to stand aside in seats held by Labour Remainers shows that they are not prioritising remaining in the EU.

    LibDem votes and seats are their true priorities.
    Anyone would think they were a political party or something
    Not just a Remainer pressure group then? Could have fooled me.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Comres (along with Panel) are worst pollster for Con over the last year. That maybe changes with BXP pulling half their candidates though.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    edited November 2019
    RobD said:

    So, new polls? :)

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    It'll go higher......

    We move.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,722
    Alistair said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Just noticed this on twitter.

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1194729148058603521

    might raise an eyebrow if it is new.

    Looking at the crossbreaks it's absurd (not this poll just in general).

    Labour lead amongst public sector workers. Fair enough you say. But they also lead amongst private sector workers as well.

    Labour lead amongst people who work.

    That's just mind boggling that they can lead amongst the working population and be behind overall by 10 points.
    Why? Brexit popularity increases with age, is it surprising that the working age want to continue working?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234

    rcs1000 said:

    Evening all and an interesting thread so far. Jeremy Corbyn had a howler in Scotland today. STV was reporting his meetings were poorly attended and showed one man in the street calling him a terrorist sympathiser. In interviews he kept trying to refine his position on IndyRef2 and the best he could offer was not in the early years of a Labour government. Labour in Scotland is heading for a meltdown on 12th December unless there is a dramatic turn of events.

    I often agree with Stuart Dickson but thus far there is no evidence of SCon to SLib drift. Indeed the SLibs I am speaking to are worried not hyper confident. Orkney is safe and I still think cousin Jamie will hold here but maybe the Bearsden girl guide and Christine Jardine should not be quite so bullish about their chances.

    Edinburgh West?

    It scores very well on my Four Factors model. UNS: check. Remainia: check. Local strength: check. Other votes to squeeze: check.

    Why would it not be fairly comfortable hold for the Yellow?
    Because Jardine is one of the biggest dunderheids in Scottish politics. And my goodness, she has plenty of competition.

    Incidentally, I cannot understand your “UNS: check”. We haven’t had any Scottish polls in order to judge SLD to SNP swing or vice versa, but the sub-samples point to zero movement either way. “Remania” is also a neutral, as both parties are Remain (and, being the government, the SNP gets all the profile). “Local strength“? Also applies to both. “Other votes to squeeze”: also applies to both.
    Your points are good ones, but let me address them anyway :smile:

    Re UNS. Worth remembering the LDs start six points ahead of the SNP. And they're up (we can reasonably assume) in absolute vote share in Scotland. The SNP therefore would need to add maybe ten percentage points to their share to win the seat. While the SNP's vote will almost certainly increase in Scotland, I don't see a ten point jump.

    Remainia. Sure.

    Local strength. The LDs made progress in Edinburgh West in the last local elections. And that was at a time they were doing less well.

    Other votes to squeeze: there are more unionist votes to squeeze in Edinburgh West than pro-independence ones.
  • kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    30% guaranteed. Can they get higher.
    I expect TBP will be squeezed further with both main parties benefitting

    I am intrigued to hear Farage is toying with backing the conservatives depending on the manifesto. Is this his final act- to instruct all TBP supporters to vote for Boris

    Maybe, maybe not but it would be a big moment
  • Star Wars' Rian Johnson doesn't mind the arguing over The Last Jedi.

    "So much of the fun of it is arguing about it."

    Rian Johnson has revealed that he doesn't mind Star Wars fans arguing over The Last Jedi.

    The Knives Out director bore the brunt of a strong audience reaction to the second film in the current Star Wars trilogy, which hit cinemas back in 2017.

    But after fan backlash and even petitions to have the film removed from canon and remade, Rian — who is still in line to direct a whole new trilogy of Star Wars films — has revealed he doesn't really mind fans debating the film.

    In fact, he quite likes it.

    https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a29771402/star-wars-rian-johnson-the-last-jedi-criticism-doesnt-mind-arguing/
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 732
    Drutt said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    New YouGov tables out and the Tories are doing better with working class C2DEs on 47% than they are nationally on 42% (they are on 38% with middle class ABC1s and still lead with middle class voters but less strongly).

    Labour are now doing better with middle class ABC1s on 29% to the 27% they are on with C2DEs. The LDs are far higher with middle class ABC1s on 19% to the 9% they are on with working class voters.

    Tories lead 54% to 20% in the South, 42% to 29% in the Midlands and are just 1% behind Labour in the North, 37% to 38%.

    Labour lead in London still 40% to 28% for the Tories and in Scotland the SNP are on 41%, the Tories on 25% and Labour and the LDs tied on 14%.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/w3ohbvr6zt/Sky_TheTimes_VI_191112_w.pdf

    Fits with the poll th eother day showing Labour support strongly correlated with higher levels of education (which wil ltend to translate into ABC1 jobs, though of course it doesn't always).
    The Tories still lead with ABC1s, although Labour perform slightly better with ABC1s now than C2DEs the LDs do best percentage wise with ABC1s
    Pensioners disproportionately go down as c2de, even if they are fairly flush, which explains a lot of the blue-collar blue support
    I thought pensioners were classified according to their final occupation?
  • Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Just noticed this on twitter.

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1194729148058603521

    might raise an eyebrow if it is new.

    Looking at the crossbreaks it's absurd (not this poll just in general).

    Labour lead amongst public sector workers. Fair enough you say. But they also lead amongst private sector workers as well.

    Labour lead amongst people who work.

    That's just mind boggling that they can lead amongst the working population and be behind overall by 10 points.
    Why? Brexit popularity increases with age, is it surprising that the working age want to continue working?
    Well you dont vote labour at this GE if you want to keep working in a private sector job....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    Had my first election leaflet today - Labour first out of the blocks in a safe Con seat where, admittedly, they did come second last time, although locally it's all about the LDs as the non Tory vote.

    Apparently only Labour have fully costed policies that address society's injustices fairly, which is a clever phrase - others might have costed policies, they might even address society's injustices, but not fairly. Plus I'm suspicious of something being costed rather than funded, but the Tories won't be able to throw stones in that regard.

    And rail, mail and water into public hands (for some reason I feel like somebody pitched 'rail, mail and pail', but realised the latter is not obvious enough).

    Referendum with 'leave on a defined deal' and 'remain' on the ballot. Interesting phrasing again. Not guaranteed to put a Labour deal on the ballot, just a defined deal?

    Helpfully, it also clarified that their slogan is not just an empty sound bite, they really do mean 'for the many not the few'. Good thing they said that, or I'd think they were joshing.
  • Star Wars' Rian Johnson doesn't mind the arguing over The Last Jedi.

    "So much of the fun of it is arguing about it."

    Rian Johnson has revealed that he doesn't mind Star Wars fans arguing over The Last Jedi.

    The Knives Out director bore the brunt of a strong audience reaction to the second film in the current Star Wars trilogy, which hit cinemas back in 2017.

    But after fan backlash and even petitions to have the film removed from canon and remade, Rian — who is still in line to direct a whole new trilogy of Star Wars films — has revealed he doesn't really mind fans debating the film.

    In fact, he quite likes it.

    https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a29771402/star-wars-rian-johnson-the-last-jedi-criticism-doesnt-mind-arguing/

    Compared to the mandalorian, the last jedi is citizen kane.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Just noticed this on twitter.

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1194729148058603521

    might raise an eyebrow if it is new.

    Looking at the crossbreaks it's absurd (not this poll just in general).

    Labour lead amongst public sector workers. Fair enough you say. But they also lead amongst private sector workers as well.

    Labour lead amongst people who work.

    That's just mind boggling that they can lead amongst the working population and be behind overall by 10 points.
    Why? Brexit popularity increases with age, is it surprising that the working age want to continue working?
    It's absurd that Labour can lead amongst people who work yet PB Tories claim... Well pretty much anything about the Tories standing for aspiration or some such nonsense.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Alistair said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Just noticed this on twitter.

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1194729148058603521

    might raise an eyebrow if it is new.

    Looking at the crossbreaks it's absurd (not this poll just in general).

    Labour lead amongst public sector workers. Fair enough you say. But they also lead amongst private sector workers as well.

    Labour lead amongst people who work.

    That's just mind boggling that they can lead amongst the working population and be behind overall by 10 points.
    The pensioner vote is their big problem , the Tories hold a huge lead in that group . Whatever Labour are going to put in their manifesto they need a massive bribe to that group . It’s more important than ever for younger people to tell grannie and grandpa you screwed me on Brexit I’ll be damned if you’re now going to subject me to five years of Bozo and the Tories , they need to get out and vote .
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    Star Wars' Rian Johnson doesn't mind the arguing over The Last Jedi.

    "So much of the fun of it is arguing about it."

    Rian Johnson has revealed that he doesn't mind Star Wars fans arguing over The Last Jedi.

    The Knives Out director bore the brunt of a strong audience reaction to the second film in the current Star Wars trilogy, which hit cinemas back in 2017.

    But after fan backlash and even petitions to have the film removed from canon and remade, Rian — who is still in line to direct a whole new trilogy of Star Wars films — has revealed he doesn't really mind fans debating the film.

    In fact, he quite likes it.

    https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a29771402/star-wars-rian-johnson-the-last-jedi-criticism-doesnt-mind-arguing/

    The Last Jedi was the second most disappointing thing about 2017. Discuss.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    nichomar said:

    Foxy said:

    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Strategically a 323+ seats Tory win is better for both the Lib Dems and SNP compared to propping up a very weak minority Labour Gov't.

    Not if you want to stay in the EU.
    The refusal of the LibDems to stand aside in seats held by Labour Remainers shows that they are not prioritising remaining in the EU.

    LibDem votes and seats are their true priorities.
    Remind me how many Lab candidates have stood down to favour other anti-Tory parties...
    Er... none they seem to think that we have to give way to a posh public schoolboy who uses obscure language or to a disgraceful idiot who should be looking after his allotment
    Fat Narcissus versus ....Onan the septuagenarian vegetarian egalitarian/totalitarian.

  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    nico67 said:

    Floater said:

    Another awesome day from Labour I see

    Jezbollah hiding from a voter who dared question his friendships with terrorists

    The Labour 4 day a week wheeze with Shadow ministers disagreeing about if it applies to NHS or not

    Incidentally, how do they find the extra staff for this or is it ok if people just die?

    Then we have John Ashworth - this is Abbott levels of crapness

    https://order-order.com/2019/11/13/jon-ashworth-disagrees-nhs-privatisation/

    What a shower, a nasty, vile anti western shower.

    Only people who inhabit these types of forums are likely to take much notice . We forget sometimes most of the public just aren’t interested . The debates and the key parts of the manifestos might get more awareness but really members of this forum are really not a great representation of the general public .
    Always worth remembering. Same applies more broadly to social media: if Twitter were representative of public opinion then we'd be some years into the dictatorship of the proletariat by now, and all the Tories, financiers, entrepreneurs and anybody with more than £10 in the bank would've been shot.

    Quite apart from the 30% or more of the entire electorate that doesn't vote to begin with, at least half of the fraction that do are habit voters, and most of them will either have paid no attention to anything that happens during the campaign, or will have interpreted whatever they have heard in a manner appropriate to reinforcing their own biases.

    Swing voters are a minority group and those who pay real attention to these controversies are a subset within that.
  • Night all, as I am suffering from shingles I am off to bed. Just a defence of Stuart Dickson, a "wee keek" is a very popular Scottish expression. We like to have a wee keek at a lot of things before making up our minds. As for Edinburgh West, maybe Christine Jardine will hold on but sorry she is about as thick as a load of dough before put in the oven. We can never forget how she managed to turn Malcolm Bruce's almost 7000 majority in 2010 in Gordon into Alex Salmonds more than 8000 majority over her in 2015. She was after all a "popular" local councillor beforehand!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    nico67 said:

    Floater said:

    Another awesome day from Labour I see

    Jezbollah hiding from a voter who dared question his friendships with terrorists

    The Labour 4 day a week wheeze with Shadow ministers disagreeing about if it applies to NHS or not

    Incidentally, how do they find the extra staff for this or is it ok if people just die?

    Then we have John Ashworth - this is Abbott levels of crapness

    https://order-order.com/2019/11/13/jon-ashworth-disagrees-nhs-privatisation/

    What a shower, a nasty, vile anti western shower.

    Only people who inhabit these types of forums are likely to take much notice . We forget sometimes most of the public just aren’t interested . The debates and the key parts of the manifestos might get more awareness but really members of this forum are really not a great representation of the general public .
    Well - I would usually agree.

    Except from the amount of jokes I am getting sent which poke fun at the absurdity that is Labour, far more than aimed at other parties combined.

    Plus seeing people talking about it in the breakout area at work.

    The video of Corbyn heading to the hills after being questioned on his interesting friends will I think be noticed.


    I thought he was the brave campaigner who left others to "run away"

  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    NeilVW said:

    Drutt said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    New YouGov tables out and the Tories are doing better with working class C2DEs on 47% than they are nationally on 42% (they are on 38% with middle class ABC1s and still lead with middle class voters but less strongly).

    Labour are now doing better with middle class ABC1s on 29% to the 27% they are on with C2DEs. The LDs are far higher with middle class ABC1s on 19% to the 9% they are on with working class voters.

    Tories lead 54% to 20% in the South, 42% to 29% in the Midlands and are just 1% behind Labour in the North, 37% to 38%.

    Labour lead in London still 40% to 28% for the Tories and in Scotland the SNP are on 41%, the Tories on 25% and Labour and the LDs tied on 14%.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/w3ohbvr6zt/Sky_TheTimes_VI_191112_w.pdf

    Fits with the poll th eother day showing Labour support strongly correlated with higher levels of education (which wil ltend to translate into ABC1 jobs, though of course it doesn't always).
    The Tories still lead with ABC1s, although Labour perform slightly better with ABC1s now than C2DEs the LDs do best percentage wise with ABC1s
    Pensioners disproportionately go down as c2de, even if they are fairly flush, which explains a lot of the blue-collar blue support
    I thought pensioners were classified according to their final occupation?
    I thought we were being classified as being unentitled to vote.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Oh btw, after a couple of days of respite, i got my letterbox jammed with more lib dem propaganda. Nothing from anybody else yet.

    Driving round North Dorset in the last couple of days - seen 7 LibDem David Chadwick signs; no signs for any other party at all. This in one of the safest Tory seats.

    You've got to admire the effort.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,882
    edited November 2019
    RobD said:

    About that Con lead. :D

    Ah, smug (triumphalist) mode. :)
    MTimT said:

    @ Sunil - what does your latest ELBOW do to the trend lines? Hope for Labour, or not?


    OK, so far 5 polls this week with field work ending on or since Sunday - average Con lead 10%.
  • Oh btw, after a couple of days of respite, i got my letterbox jammed with more lib dem propaganda. Nothing from anybody else yet.

    Driving round North Dorset in the last couple of days - seen 7 LibDem David Chadwick signs; no signs for any other party at all. This in one of the safest Tory seats.

    You've got to admire the effort.
    I would appreciate if all political parties timed their deliveries to coincidence with recycling bin collection day...
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Just noticed this on twitter.

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1194729148058603521

    might raise an eyebrow if it is new.

    Looking at the crossbreaks it's absurd (not this poll just in general).

    Labour lead amongst public sector workers. Fair enough you say. But they also lead amongst private sector workers as well.

    Labour lead amongst people who work.

    That's just mind boggling that they can lead amongst the working population and be behind overall by 10 points.
    Why? Brexit popularity increases with age, is it surprising that the working age want to continue working?
    Are the self employed included in the private sector workers or are they classes separate?
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    If this is a good poll for Labour, then let me quote Pyrrhus of Epirus after winning the battle of Asculum: "If we win one more victory like this, we shall be utterly ruined!"
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Floater said:

    Another awesome day from Labour I see

    Jezbollah hiding from a voter who dared question his friendships with terrorists

    The Labour 4 day a week wheeze with Shadow ministers disagreeing about if it applies to NHS or not

    Incidentally, how do they find the extra staff for this or is it ok if people just die?

    Then we have John Ashworth - this is Abbott levels of crapness

    https://order-order.com/2019/11/13/jon-ashworth-disagrees-nhs-privatisation/

    What a shower, a nasty, vile anti western shower.

    Sources Daily Mail, Guido, and other tax avoiding Billionaires
    But its all true isn't it John

    Coming from you, a purveyor of fake news the criticism is a tad ironic.

    You left out sinister bankers who might or might not have long noses btw

    You really must try harder
  • blueblue said:

    Star Wars' Rian Johnson doesn't mind the arguing over The Last Jedi.

    "So much of the fun of it is arguing about it."

    Rian Johnson has revealed that he doesn't mind Star Wars fans arguing over The Last Jedi.

    The Knives Out director bore the brunt of a strong audience reaction to the second film in the current Star Wars trilogy, which hit cinemas back in 2017.

    But after fan backlash and even petitions to have the film removed from canon and remade, Rian — who is still in line to direct a whole new trilogy of Star Wars films — has revealed he doesn't really mind fans debating the film.

    In fact, he quite likes it.

    https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a29771402/star-wars-rian-johnson-the-last-jedi-criticism-doesnt-mind-arguing/

    The Last Jedi was the second most disappointing thing about 2017. Discuss.
    The Last Straw more like :lol:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    I'd tend to agree, but that seems like a very definitive statement when churn and inconsistent levels of official or unofficial alliances and tactical voting, and reactions to those alliances prompting counter tactical voting, make certainty the share will not only be more inefficient but 'much more inefficient' a bold prediction.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    nunu2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Just noticed this on twitter.

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1194729148058603521

    might raise an eyebrow if it is new.

    Looking at the crossbreaks it's absurd (not this poll just in general).

    Labour lead amongst public sector workers. Fair enough you say. But they also lead amongst private sector workers as well.

    Labour lead amongst people who work.

    That's just mind boggling that they can lead amongst the working population and be behind overall by 10 points.
    Why? Brexit popularity increases with age, is it surprising that the working age want to continue working?
    Are the self employed included in the private sector workers or are they classes separate?
    Self-employed are the first to be sent to the gulag I'm afraid.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156

    Oh btw, after a couple of days of respite, i got my letterbox jammed with more lib dem propaganda. Nothing from anybody else yet.

    Driving round North Dorset in the last couple of days - seen 7 LibDem David Chadwick signs; no signs for any other party at all. This in one of the safest Tory seats.

    You've got to admire the effort.
    I would appreciate if all political parties timed their deliveries to coincidence with recycling bin collection day...
    Being an entirely serious suggestion, the serious answer will be of course that different parts of even the same seat will have collections on different days so hard to organise that. We shall have to suck it up.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    nico67 said:

    In terms of voter registration a quite unexpected surge in registrations yesterday .

    A 110,000 new registrations in the 18 to 34 age group . This is a bit of a shock which is 60,000 more than the previous day , I can’t think of anything news worthy that would cause this .

    The more you see of Johnson's smirk the more you want to smack him in the face. Making sure you can vote is the next best thing?
  • On the final result, probably a bit.

    But it's not reflected in the polls. There are still people saying they will vote BXP where there is no candidate, for example
  • stodge said:

    nico67 said:

    The Tories firewall is the BP standing down in those 317 seats . That means they can direct more resources to other seats .

    But they don’t want to do a Hilary Clinton and take their eye off the ball , with seemingly locked down seats throwing up some shock results . And of course there is the chance that some complacency might set in with Tory voters in those seats .

    Politics doesn't work like this - seriously.

    The Conservatives will still work in the 317 seats - in fact, that's where most of their effort will be because that's where most of their activists are I suspect.

    Stephen Timms and a dozen Labour activists were in East Ham High Street today - Timms has a wafer thin 39,883 majority so while I understand why he was out talking to his constituents (they aren't technically at the moment) what were the other activists doing? Why weren't they out working to defend Dagenham & Rainham or Ilford North which the Conservatives have targeted or going up to Chingford and Woodford Green which, if Labour were doing better, would be a plausible objective?

    I know the local East Ham Conservatives went up to Chingford and Woodford Green to support IDS but again I'm thinking - why? They are miles ahead and should be looking to gain Dagenham & Rainham or Ilford North rather than defending seats they won't lose.

    As a young Liberal I was told "if you can't win where you are, find where you can win and go there".
    Wes Streeting has a majority of over 9,000 in Ilford North. Don't think the Tories will be winning here!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    In terms of voter registration a quite unexpected surge in registrations yesterday .

    A 110,000 new registrations in the 18 to 34 age group . This is a bit of a shock which is 60,000 more than the previous day , I can’t think of anything news worthy that would cause this .

    The more you see of Johnson's smirk the more you want to smack him in the face. Making sure you can vote is the next best thing?
    Hundreds of thousands of people want to assault the PM?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    blueblue said:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    If this is a good poll for Labour, then let me quote Pyrrhus of Epirus after winning the battle of Asculum: "If we win one more victory like this, we shall be utterly ruined!"
    If these were the vote shares to be recorded on election day itself then Labour would obviously be well beaten. But election day is four weeks away.

    Since the dissolution, Labour has strengthened in the polls whilst its opponents have trod water or gone backwards. Another month of that and we could easily be back into Hung Parliament territory again.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    blueblue said:

    Star Wars' Rian Johnson doesn't mind the arguing over The Last Jedi.

    "So much of the fun of it is arguing about it."

    Rian Johnson has revealed that he doesn't mind Star Wars fans arguing over The Last Jedi.

    The Knives Out director bore the brunt of a strong audience reaction to the second film in the current Star Wars trilogy, which hit cinemas back in 2017.

    But after fan backlash and even petitions to have the film removed from canon and remade, Rian — who is still in line to direct a whole new trilogy of Star Wars films — has revealed he doesn't really mind fans debating the film.

    In fact, he quite likes it.

    https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a29771402/star-wars-rian-johnson-the-last-jedi-criticism-doesnt-mind-arguing/

    The Last Jedi was the second most disappointing thing about 2017. Discuss.
    The Last Straw more like :lol:
    At least in 2017 there was some time to recover between the election disaster and the Star Wars disaster. If they do that to me again this year, I swear...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Star Wars' Rian Johnson doesn't mind the arguing over The Last Jedi.

    "So much of the fun of it is arguing about it."

    Rian Johnson has revealed that he doesn't mind Star Wars fans arguing over The Last Jedi.

    The Knives Out director bore the brunt of a strong audience reaction to the second film in the current Star Wars trilogy, which hit cinemas back in 2017.

    But after fan backlash and even petitions to have the film removed from canon and remade, Rian — who is still in line to direct a whole new trilogy of Star Wars films — has revealed he doesn't really mind fans debating the film.

    In fact, he quite likes it.

    https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a29771402/star-wars-rian-johnson-the-last-jedi-criticism-doesnt-mind-arguing/

    Is Gauke starring in the The Last Tory?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,882
    edited November 2019
    blueblue said:

    blueblue said:

    Star Wars' Rian Johnson doesn't mind the arguing over The Last Jedi.

    "So much of the fun of it is arguing about it."

    Rian Johnson has revealed that he doesn't mind Star Wars fans arguing over The Last Jedi.

    The Knives Out director bore the brunt of a strong audience reaction to the second film in the current Star Wars trilogy, which hit cinemas back in 2017.

    But after fan backlash and even petitions to have the film removed from canon and remade, Rian — who is still in line to direct a whole new trilogy of Star Wars films — has revealed he doesn't really mind fans debating the film.

    In fact, he quite likes it.

    https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a29771402/star-wars-rian-johnson-the-last-jedi-criticism-doesnt-mind-arguing/

    The Last Jedi was the second most disappointing thing about 2017. Discuss.
    The Last Straw more like :lol:
    At least in 2017 there was some time to recover between the election disaster and the Star Wars disaster. If they do that to me again this year, I swear...
    "Your coming together.... will be your undoing!" - Palpatine doesn't approve of the Rebel Alliance :)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    edited November 2019
    Ha! I see you provoked a Pavlovian response from @HYUFD on that twitter thread! :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    Rubbish, BXP taking Labour votes in the North and Midlands unlike 2017 enabling the Tories to win
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    A majority of voters support FOM in the Comres . 38% of Leavers support it aswell .

    Perhaps the penny is finally dropping for some , Brits lose out aswell when FOM ends .
  • blueblue said:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    If this is a good poll for Labour, then let me quote Pyrrhus of Epirus after winning the battle of Asculum: "If we win one more victory like this, we shall be utterly ruined!"
    For labour to close much more they need conservative to labour switches and I doubt one conservative has or will move over to labour

    The squeeze on TBP may actually break more for the conservatives, so where are labours votes coming from ?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Just noticed this on twitter.

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1194729148058603521

    might raise an eyebrow if it is new.

    Looking at the crossbreaks it's absurd (not this poll just in general).

    Labour lead amongst public sector workers. Fair enough you say. But they also lead amongst private sector workers as well.

    Labour lead amongst people who work.

    That's just mind boggling that they can lead amongst the working population and be behind overall by 10 points.
    Why? Brexit popularity increases with age, is it surprising that the working age want to continue working?
    Well you dont vote labour at this GE if you want to keep working in a private sector job....
    Foxy voted Tory in 2010- probably the lowest point in his life....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    edited November 2019
    HYUFD said:

    Rubbish, BXP taking Labour votes in the North and Midlands unlike 2017 enabling the Tories to win
    Chris Curtis was one of the people at YouGov that produced the highly accurate MRP in 2017, I think I'll trust his judgment on this rather than yours.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    kle4 said:

    Oh btw, after a couple of days of respite, i got my letterbox jammed with more lib dem propaganda. Nothing from anybody else yet.

    Driving round North Dorset in the last couple of days - seen 7 LibDem David Chadwick signs; no signs for any other party at all. This in one of the safest Tory seats.

    You've got to admire the effort.
    I would appreciate if all political parties timed their deliveries to coincidence with recycling bin collection day...
    Being an entirely serious suggestion, the serious answer will be of course that different parts of even the same seat will have collections on different days so hard to organise that. We shall have to suck it up.
    The leaflets could always be kept in a neat pile for use as emergency bog roll? Just in case we are all wrong and the Revolutionary Socialist Friends of Venezuela win outright next month.
  • HYUFD said:

    Rubbish, BXP taking Labour votes in the North and Midlands unlike 2017 enabling the Tories to win
    Michael Portillo has a famous motto:

    "WHO DARES WINS"

    WE dare! WE will WIN!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited November 2019

    stodge said:

    nico67 said:

    The Tories firewall is the BP standing down in those 317 seats . That means they can direct more resources to other seats .

    But they don’t want to do a Hilary Clinton and take their eye off the ball , with seemingly locked down seats throwing up some shock results . And of course there is the chance that some complacency might set in with Tory voters in those seats .

    Politics doesn't work like this - seriously.

    The Conservatives will still work in the 317 seats - in fact, that's where most of their effort will be because that's where most of their activists are I suspect.

    Stephen Timms and a dozen Labour activists were in East Ham High Street today - Timms has a wafer thin 39,883 majority so while I understand why he was out talking to his constituents (they aren't technically at the moment) what were the other activists doing? Why weren't they out working to defend Dagenham & Rainham or Ilford North which the Conservatives have targeted or going up to Chingford and Woodford Green which, if Labour were doing better, would be a plausible objective?

    I know the local East Ham Conservatives went up to Chingford and Woodford Green to support IDS but again I'm thinking - why? They are miles ahead and should be looking to gain Dagenham & Rainham or Ilford North rather than defending seats they won't lose.

    As a young Liberal I was told "if you can't win where you are, find where you can win and go there".
    Wes Streeting has a majority of over 9,000 in Ilford North. Don't think the Tories will be winning here!
    Indeed, plus Momentum have been piling in activists to Chingford where I have also been. The only realistic Tory gains on current polls in London are Kensington, Battersea, Enfield Southgate and Croydon South, otherwise it is about learning from 2017 and holding what we have got south of Watford and making gains in the North, Wales and the Midlands to get the majority.
  • Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    In terms of voter registration a quite unexpected surge in registrations yesterday .

    A 110,000 new registrations in the 18 to 34 age group . This is a bit of a shock which is 60,000 more than the previous day , I can’t think of anything news worthy that would cause this .

    The more you see of Johnson's smirk the more you want to smack him in the face. Making sure you can vote is the next best thing?
    Why do you promote violence. It is not necessary
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    blueblue said:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    If this is a good poll for Labour, then let me quote Pyrrhus of Epirus after winning the battle of Asculum: "If we win one more victory like this, we shall be utterly ruined!"
    For labour to close much more they need conservative to labour switches and I doubt one conservative has or will move over to labour

    The squeeze on TBP may actually break more for the conservatives, so where are labours votes coming from ?
    Only from the Lib Dems, whose leader, members, and voters are now being subjected to round-the-clock abuse from Momentum trolls on Twitter.

    No doubt that will be very effective in winning hearts and minds!
  • FFS

    Former Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick has said he will enter the Democratic presidential race, say people familiar with his conversations, reversing an earlier decision not to seek the White House.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/deval-patrick-has-decided-to-enter-democratic-presidential-race-11573677322
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    HYUFD said:

    Rubbish, BXP taking Labour votes in the North and Midlands unlike 2017 enabling the Tories to win
    Michael Portillo has a famous motto:

    "WHO DARES WINS"

    WE dare! WE will WIN!
    That worked well
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    The Conservatives shortening in Labour-held East Lothian (Lab Maj = 3,083)

    SNP 10/11
    SCon 9/4
    SLab 5/2
    SLD 50/1

    The SNP PPC is Kenny MacAskill, the Justice Secretary 2007-2014.

    You cant have it both ways Stuart! Either we are collapsing at the heel of a valliant Nicola or she is just hoping Alex Salmond's Indictment isn't served until after 12th December.
    You misunderstand elementary voter behaviour. The Scottish Conservatives might be on the same battlefield, but we are fighting different demons. I’ve never claimed that you are about to be crushed by valiant Nicola. If you suffer badly (and I’m yet to be convinced on that point), it will be entirely self-inflicted friendly fire.

    We are not really aiming to convert people straight from the Tories. That is incredibly difficult, and not remotely cost-effective. The best we can do is encourage folk to step away from the extremism of the SCAUP and onto more neutral ground.

    Meanwhile, our real battle is primarily logistical: we simply have to get our existing, identified supporters registered, and to actually cast their vote.

    If you think you are going to hold seats by talking folk into straight switching, you are very naive.
    Quite right. This is a low turnout election and motivation is key, and encouraging unionists to the SLD camp too, in SCon held seats anyway.

    I have made some long shot bets on the SLD on the seats that were SLD until 2015. If there are to be SLDgains, surely these are where they will be, and Davidson Remainer Tories the switchers.
    - “... long shot bets on the SLD on the seats that were SLD until 2015”

    Take a wee keek at:
    - Gordon 12/1
    - Argyll & Bute 6/1
    - Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch & Strathspey 20/1

    Do your own research.
    I have a little on each of those, but only the price of a pint.
    Wise. I’m expecting those prices to come in as the Scottish polls start to dribble in and the lights go up.

    Unless Swinson and/or Rennie blow up. Which is entirely feasible.
    There' a curious lack of Scotland-only polls at the moment. Since a rise in the LD vote doesn't suit the agenda of any of the Scottish print media, draw your own conclusions. Reminds me of 2004 when there wasn't a single Scotland-only poll for a whole year.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    blueblue said:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    If this is a good poll for Labour, then let me quote Pyrrhus of Epirus after winning the battle of Asculum: "If we win one more victory like this, we shall be utterly ruined!"
    For labour to close much more they need conservative to labour switches and I doubt one conservative has or will move over to labour

    The squeeze on TBP may actually break more for the conservatives, so where are labours votes coming from ?
    Mainly, I would suspect, from ex-Labour Leave voters reverting to habit in the polling booth, and Remainian tactical voting.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    In terms of voter registration a quite unexpected surge in registrations yesterday .

    A 110,000 new registrations in the 18 to 34 age group . This is a bit of a shock which is 60,000 more than the previous day , I can’t think of anything news worthy that would cause this .

    The more you see of Johnson's smirk the more you want to smack him in the face. Making sure you can vote is the next best thing?
    Why do you promote violence. It is not necessary
    Big G...stop being such a priggish bellend (in a nice bellendy kind of way)....


  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    HYUFD said:

    Rubbish, BXP taking Labour votes in the North and Midlands unlike 2017 enabling the Tories to win
    Chris Curtis was one of the people at YouGov that produced the highly accurate MRP in 2017, I think I'll trust his judgment on this rather than yours.
    Could they try producing it at a useful time for once?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Dreadful DT headline for Bozo .

    Will he get the editor fired seeing as it’s his fan magazine . That headline will be a gift to the opposition especially the Lib Dems .
  • HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    nico67 said:

    The Tories firewall is the BP standing down in those 317 seats . That means they can direct more resources to other seats .

    But they don’t want to do a Hilary Clinton and take their eye off the ball , with seemingly locked down seats throwing up some shock results . And of course there is the chance that some complacency might set in with Tory voters in those seats .

    Politics doesn't work like this - seriously.

    The Conservatives will still work in the 317 seats - in fact, that's where most of their effort will be because that's where most of their activists are I suspect.

    Stephen Timms and a dozen Labour activists were in East Ham High Street today - Timms has a wafer thin 39,883 majority so while I understand why he was out talking to his constituents (they aren't technically at the moment) what were the other activists doing? Why weren't they out working to defend Dagenham & Rainham or Ilford North which the Conservatives have targeted or going up to Chingford and Woodford Green which, if Labour were doing better, would be a plausible objective?

    I know the local East Ham Conservatives went up to Chingford and Woodford Green to support IDS but again I'm thinking - why? They are miles ahead and should be looking to gain Dagenham & Rainham or Ilford North rather than defending seats they won't lose.

    As a young Liberal I was told "if you can't win where you are, find where you can win and go there".
    Wes Streeting has a majority of over 9,000 in Ilford North. Don't think the Tories will be winning here!
    Indeed, plus Momentum have been piling in activists to Chingford where I have also been. The only realistic Tory gains on current polls in London are Kensington, Battersea, Enfield Southgate and Croydon South, otherwise it is about learning from 2017 and holding what we have got south of Watford and making gains in the North, Wales and the Midlands to get the majority.
    Relying on the North to vote Tory to get them a majority. Does that not.worry you?
  • There' a curious lack of Scotland-only polls at the moment. Since a rise in the LD vote doesn't suit the agenda of any of the Scottish print media, draw your own conclusions. Reminds me of 2004 when there wasn't a single Scotland-only poll for a whole year.

    It's not curious, polls cost money, and the Scottish print media in particular are going through a tough time.

    I think we might get an Ipsos MORI/STV Scotland only poll soon.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    blueblue said:

    blueblue said:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    If this is a good poll for Labour, then let me quote Pyrrhus of Epirus after winning the battle of Asculum: "If we win one more victory like this, we shall be utterly ruined!"
    For labour to close much more they need conservative to labour switches and I doubt one conservative has or will move over to labour

    The squeeze on TBP may actually break more for the conservatives, so where are labours votes coming from ?
    Only from the Lib Dems, whose leader, members, and voters are now being subjected to round-the-clock abuse from Momentum trolls on Twitter.

    No doubt that will be very effective in winning hearts and minds!
    What percentage of the total electorate subjects itself to being slagged off on Twitter?
  • blueblue said:

    HYUFD said:

    Rubbish, BXP taking Labour votes in the North and Midlands unlike 2017 enabling the Tories to win
    Chris Curtis was one of the people at YouGov that produced the highly accurate MRP in 2017, I think I'll trust his judgment on this rather than yours.
    Could they try producing it at a useful time for once?
    The MRP only works properly once all the candidates standing are known.

    So I think we may our first MRP in the next fortnight, maybe the next week.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    In terms of voter registration a quite unexpected surge in registrations yesterday .

    A 110,000 new registrations in the 18 to 34 age group . This is a bit of a shock which is 60,000 more than the previous day , I can’t think of anything news worthy that would cause this .

    The more you see of Johnson's smirk the more you want to smack him in the face. Making sure you can vote is the next best thing?
    Hundreds of thousands of people want to assault the PM?
    At least I'd think. He almost got lynched in Yorkshire today.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    The Wiki poll summary site is being a bit slow adding the latest polls... I presume they have tightened up editing rights and checking after those fake polls were added last week?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_United_Kingdom_general_election
  • nico67 said:

    A majority of voters support FOM in the Comres . 38% of Leavers support it aswell .

    Perhaps the penny is finally dropping for some , Brits lose out aswell when FOM ends .

    Sigh.... When will you lot finally grasp that many of us Leave voters didn’t have an issue with immigration?
  • tyson said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    In terms of voter registration a quite unexpected surge in registrations yesterday .

    A 110,000 new registrations in the 18 to 34 age group . This is a bit of a shock which is 60,000 more than the previous day , I can’t think of anything news worthy that would cause this .

    The more you see of Johnson's smirk the more you want to smack him in the face. Making sure you can vote is the next best thing?
    Why do you promote violence. It is not necessary
    Big G...stop being such a priggish bellend (in a nice bellendy kind of way)....


    Sorry Tyson. I just cannot see in this climate suggesting someone is 'smacked in the face' is either necessary or helpful
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,722

    blueblue said:

    Star Wars' Rian Johnson doesn't mind the arguing over The Last Jedi.

    "So much of the fun of it is arguing about it."

    Rian Johnson has revealed that he doesn't mind Star Wars fans arguing over The Last Jedi.

    The Knives Out director bore the brunt of a strong audience reaction to the second film in the current Star Wars trilogy, which hit cinemas back in 2017.

    But after fan backlash and even petitions to have the film removed from canon and remade, Rian — who is still in line to direct a whole new trilogy of Star Wars films — has revealed he doesn't really mind fans debating the film.

    In fact, he quite likes it.

    https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a29771402/star-wars-rian-johnson-the-last-jedi-criticism-doesnt-mind-arguing/

    The Last Jedi was the second most disappointing thing about 2017. Discuss.
    The Last Straw more like :lol:
    How's about a go on this!

    https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/entertainment-arts-50403561?__twitter_impression=true
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    edited November 2019

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    "steadily creeping upwards".

    Hmmm. Under this poll, if Labour were a Formula 1 car, it would just have been lapped.

    Twice.

  • The Wiki poll summary site is being a bit slow adding the latest polls... I presume they have tightened up editing rights and checking after those fake polls were added last week?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Yup, someone has turned on "pending edits".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    GIN1138 said:
    'The exclusive Savanta ComRes survey for The Daily Telegraph found that 43 per cent of voters from the DE social group are prepared to vote for the Tories on December 12, up from 35 per cent in 2017. The poll found 40 per cent of AB voters plan to back Mr Johnson compared to 46 per cent who were prepared to vote for Theresa May two years ago.
    As champions of free-market capitalism, the Conservatives have always traditionally been seen as the party of the rich. However, since the UK voted to leave the European Union in 2016, the largely Remain voting so-called metropolitan liberal elite have pivoted to the Liberal Democrats. Conversely, working-class Leave voters are increasingly backing the Prime Minister’s promise to ‘get Brexit done’ in the face of Labour prevarication over a second referendum.

    ...Among 2016 Leave voters, more than three in five (62 per cent) intend to vote for the Conservatives, while less than one in six (14 per cent) intend to vote for the Brexit Party.
    Just under half of 2016 Remain voters (45 per cent) intend to vote for Labour, while a quarter (26 per cent) intend to vote for the Lib Dems.

    ...In an indication of support for one of Mr Johnson’s flagship policies, over half of adults (56 per cent) would support changing the law so that military veterans are given new legal protection to prevent further prosecutions over killings during the Northern Ireland Troubles, compared to just one in ten (10 per cent) who would oppose it.
    The survey also found that two in five (41 per cent) British adults would oppose holding a second referendum on Scottish independence in 2020. This is compared to a quarter (24 per cent) who would support it'

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/11/13/tories-popular-among-working-class-rich-new-general-election/
  • Is Boris doing that shitposting thing verbally now, with his Brexit analogies?

    First it was “oven-ready, just put it in the microwave” (in which case it’ll come out unbaked and disappointingly soggy).

    Then “Pot Noodle” (seems like a great idea when it’s sold to you, until you have your first taste and want to barf up your own kidneys).

    And tonight “Blue Peter Brexit - one we made earlier” (out of bog rolls and double-sided sticky tape; will be lucky to last until Friday)

    :)
  • Turns out Mike was right to call it an electoral pact.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1194736455849000961
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    "steadily creeping upwards".

    Hmmm. Uner this poll, if Labour were a Formula 1 car, it would just have been lapped.

    Twice.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    "steadily creeping upwards".

    Hmmm. Uner this poll, if Labour were a Formula 1 car, it would just have been lapped.

    Twice.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    "steadily creeping upwards".

    Hmmm. Uner this poll, if Labour were a Formula 1 car, it would just have been lapped.

    Twice.

    Nevertheless, they are heading in the right direction with pretty much every poll.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited November 2019

    nico67 said:

    A majority of voters support FOM in the Comres . 38% of Leavers support it aswell .

    Perhaps the penny is finally dropping for some , Brits lose out aswell when FOM ends .

    Sigh.... When will you lot finally grasp that many of us Leave voters didn’t have an issue with immigration?
    Then we could have saved a lot of drama and stayed in the single market . Out of the customs union and you get your trade deals and us Remainers get FOM.

  • https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194729965000019970

    Con back up, though their share wobbling about a bit has been a consistent feature of the polls recently.

    The other consistent feature has been Labour steadily creeping upwards in almost all of them. Evident here once again...

    "steadily creeping upwards".

    Hmmm. Uner this poll, if Labour were a Formula 1 car, it would just have been lapped.

    Twice.

    Labour = Luca Badoer.
This discussion has been closed.