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  • Ashworth held his own against Neil.

    He generally does ok for TV interviews I think.
  • dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Different times. Different audience. This seems a pretty good photo shoot to me and a worthy cause to be supporting (the venue not the Lib Dems :) ). I don't really see the downside for her.
    I cannot remember Richard ever saying anything positive about Swinson
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    nichomar said:

    spudgfsh said:

    I hadn't realised quite how useless Jon Ashworth actually is. He's being ripped apart by Brillo.

    Sadly most of the labour front bench are equally as good!
    I wouldn't say that many of the Tory front bench are much better. the lot of them are like two bald men fighting over a comb
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Foxy said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Why is she wearing a “Girly Swot” t-shirt?

    Again, without being subtle or funny, it’s just a bit juvenile.
    On the day your leader is making wank jokes at the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition?
    Boris can pull it off, no pun intended. He can make a jibe seem fun and light-hearted.

    This just comes across as irritable and passive-aggressive.

    It doesn’t work.
    I don't think it works for BoZo. His lack of dignity and gravitas is losing him votes. Churchill was witty, not puerile.
    Some of his stuff was pretty thin (Bossom, tomorrow I will be sober etc.)
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    spudgfsh said:

    nichomar said:

    spudgfsh said:

    I hadn't realised quite how useless Jon Ashworth actually is. He's being ripped apart by Brillo.

    Sadly most of the labour front bench are equally as good!
    I wouldn't say that many of the Tory front bench are much better. the lot of them are like two bald men fighting over a comb
    Well quite, both so called ‘main’ parties have relegated their best players to national leagues north and south and the country is left with the consequences.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Why is she wearing a “Girly Swot” t-shirt?

    Again, without being subtle or funny, it’s just a bit juvenile.
    Kinda ties in with the bollocks to Brexit meme. Juvenile.
    I was told that the Girly Swot jibe comes up an awful lot in focus groups (and not just the ones run by the Tories.)

    There's an entire group of women who generally voted Conservative but can be described as Boris sceptic, whilst Corbyn is the alternative Boris Johnson is fine, but I suspect Jo Swinson is playing the long game for the election after next.
    She’ll have to given she’s blown this one.
    A boxing contest between the leaders would get 35 million more viewers than them droning on in live debates; plus all the betting opportunities. I think JC would be a rank outsider.

    JC v BJ would be a contest between endurance and slugging. BJ knockout or JC on points.
    But JC doesn't believe in defence, so he would be wide open to a right hook :smiley:
    But if he can make it through 6 rounds of being present but not involved, the Fat One would tire. From slugger to sluggish. I've seen big men taken down by wiry scrappers.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    In addition to alienating both sides of the Brexit debate, Jezza has now managed to alienated both sides of the Scottish independence debate.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,722

    Ashworth: "we are not talking about nationalising GPs"

    Why not? Tory-lite.
    Increasingly GPs are being directly employed by the NHS rather than as sub contracting private partnerships, and out of NHS owned premises. Even partners are directly paid, just not as salary, but rather as piece work.

    It is a counter trend to the privatisation of elective surgery, which continues apace.
  • Ashworth: "we are not talking about nationalising GPs"

    Why not? Tory-lite.
    Well, partly because they already leaving in droves thanks to the stress and the pension rules.

    Mine retired this summer. Age 55.

  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    spudgfsh said:

    I hadn't realised quite how useless Jon Ashworth actually is. He's being ripped apart by Brillo.

    He is a slightly more articulate version of Richard Burgon.

    Brillo is taking him to the cleaners.
    Brillo takes everyone to the cleaners. Remember what he done to Boris?

    Whose done best against Brillo.
  • DavidL said:

    Does anyone else remember swingback? Or does that only work if you have an opposition credible enough to be in the lead?

    Some of us remember Rod Crosby too.

    I wish we still had him now.

    He was better than any of us at modelling and predicting elections and got both GE2010 and GE2015 right.
    He was a holocaust denier and in spite of warning after warning he kept going on a about it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213
    Strategically a 323+ seats Tory win is better for both the Lib Dems and SNP compared to propping up a very weak minority Labour Gov't.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Noo said:

    Alistair said:

    SNP drifting in Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (Con Maj = 11,060)

    Con 1/3
    SNP 11/4
    Bxp 50/1
    LD 50/1
    Lab 100/1

    Note: the Liberal Democrats held this seat from the 1960s until 2015. They are now 50/1. Times change.

    Ludicrously generous odds on Con. Should be 1/10 at the longest.
    Majority ~21pp. Con down about 7pp in Scotland GE polling, SNP up about 3pp. Volatile seat, with three different parties winning in the last three elections.
    Personally, I'd not risk my money on anyone here. I wouldn't be totally shocked to see it fall.
    When the SNP took it they took it with a vote of 37% when they were polling 50% nationally.

    Whilst I imagine the SNP will get back the Labour 4 Indy voters who were attracted by a bit of Corbyn ism to bunt them back up to around that 37% there will not be enough SCon back to LD voter to bring the Conservatives down to within range.

    Safe as house mate. Guaranteed, mortal lock FACT.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited November 2019
    DavidL said:

    Does anyone else remember swingback? Or does that only work if you have an opposition credible enough to be in the lead?

    The average swing in the four by-elections was 0.9% Labour to Conservatives. I forget how much swingback tended to be, but I guess that would imply a modest swing in Johnson's favour, maybe 3-5%. That would give the Tories a lead of 8.4-12.4% in GB vote share, consistent with current opinion polls.

    The Tory - Lib Dem swing might be more interesting. That averaged 12.2% over the by-elections, so with some swingback you might be looking at a swing of 8-10% to the Lib Dems. That would reduce the Tory lead over the yellow peril from 35.8% to 16-20%. In current opinion polls that deficit is in the range of 20-27% so perhaps there's scope for the Lib Dems to improve.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    alb1on said:

    nichomar said:

    LibDems are VERY touchy tonight.....

    No, just this one that has had enough of the Tory tripe that you push out all the time
    Now, now. Please do not dissuade him from posting more tripe. It helps to bring the Tories into disrepute.
    Telling the truth of what I find on the doorsteps. I can see why that would be seen as disreputable by LibDems.....
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    DavidL said:

    Does anyone else remember swingback? Or does that only work if you have an opposition credible enough to be in the lead?

    Some of us remember Rod Crosby too.

    I wish we still had him now.

    He was better than any of us at modelling and predicting elections and got both GE2010 and GE2015 right.
    Pah! Who needs people who are actually good at political betting when we can get the party faithfuls telling us why their side winning is a good bet?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Overview of Notts seats - the blog is historically left-leaning and anti-Soubry, now less so, but after the playful discussion of the ex-BXP candidate this one is more about other seats and quite neutral in flavour.

    https://beestonia.wordpress.com/2019/11/13/beestonia-election19-special-day-minus-31-brexit-bottlers-notts-constituency-round-up/

    The only 3 Nottinghamshire seats that will not be Blue after the election are the three Nottingham city seats. And even there there will be big cuts in the majorities.
    Beestonia says this is a future Lab MP to watch:

    Nadia Whittome in Nottm East

    https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/former-meadows-care-worker-selected-3475042
    Credit where credit is due. Labour seem to have selected an excellent local candidate, who grew up in and works in the constituency.

    This is how representative democracy works.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Why is she wearing a “Girly Swot” t-shirt?

    Again, without being subtle or funny, it’s just a bit juvenile.
    On the day your leader is making wank jokes at the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition?
    Boris can pull it off, no pun intended. He can make a jibe seem fun and light-hearted.

    This just comes across as irritable and passive-aggressive.

    It doesn’t work.
    Yes, he can insert onanism into a speech without appearing a wanker himself!

    It's a valuable ability for a PM.
    I hope the newspaper cartoons don’t put it together with his flood troubles 😱
  • Overview of Notts seats - the blog is historically left-leaning and anti-Soubry, now less so, but after the playful discussion of the ex-BXP candidate this one is more about other seats and quite neutral in flavour.

    https://beestonia.wordpress.com/2019/11/13/beestonia-election19-special-day-minus-31-brexit-bottlers-notts-constituency-round-up/

    The only 3 Nottinghamshire seats that will not be Blue after the election are the three Nottingham city seats. And even there there will be big cuts in the majorities.
    Beestonia says this is a future Lab MP to watch:

    Nadia Whittome in Nottm East

    https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/former-meadows-care-worker-selected-3475042
    Credit where credit is due. Labour seem to have selected an excellent local candidate, who grew up in and works in the constituency.

    This is how representative democracy works.
    What could possibly go wrong :smiley:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,722
    Pulpstar said:

    Strategically a 323+ seats Tory win is better for both the Lib Dems and SNP compared to propping up a very weak minority Labour Gov't.

    Quite possibly. I thought it would be a generation for the LDs to recover to their position of 2015, but it looks to be as short as a Scottish generation.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    alb1on said:

    nichomar said:

    LibDems are VERY touchy tonight.....

    No, just this one that has had enough of the Tory tripe that you push out all the time
    Now, now. Please do not dissuade him from posting more tripe. It helps to bring the Tories into disrepute.
    Telling the truth of what I find on the doorsteps. I can see why that would be seen as disreputable by LibDems.....
    Million dollar question, if, in last days of campaign, you got a different impression from the doorsteps, would you tell us like Herdson did?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited November 2019

    alb1on said:

    nichomar said:

    LibDems are VERY touchy tonight.....

    No, just this one that has had enough of the Tory tripe that you push out all the time
    Now, now. Please do not dissuade him from posting more tripe. It helps to bring the Tories into disrepute.
    Telling the truth of what I find on the doorsteps. I can see why that would be seen as disreputable by LibDems.....
    Well while I no longer door step I’m sad to report that where I live it’s 49% brexit party 49% lib dem, of those who have a vote it’s 100% lib dem! So every cloud has a silver lining.
  • dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Why is she wearing a “Girly Swot” t-shirt?

    Again, without being subtle or funny, it’s just a bit juvenile.
    On the day your leader is making wank jokes at the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition?
    :smiley:
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Foxy said:

    Ashworth: "we are not talking about nationalising GPs"

    Why not? Tory-lite.
    Increasingly GPs are being directly employed by the NHS rather than as sub contracting private partnerships, and out of NHS owned premises. Even partners are directly paid, just not as salary, but rather as piece work.

    It is a counter trend to the privatisation of elective surgery, which continues apace.
    Interesting. Thanks.
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698

    alb1on said:

    nichomar said:

    LibDems are VERY touchy tonight.....

    No, just this one that has had enough of the Tory tripe that you push out all the time
    Now, now. Please do not dissuade him from posting more tripe. It helps to bring the Tories into disrepute.
    Telling the truth of what I find on the doorsteps. I can see why that would be seen as disreputable by LibDems.....
    Telling what you hear on the doorsteps is fine. Extrapolating from the elderly of Torbay to the national vote is the error.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,722
    isam said:

    DavidL said:

    Does anyone else remember swingback? Or does that only work if you have an opposition credible enough to be in the lead?

    Some of us remember Rod Crosby too.

    I wish we still had him now.

    He was better than any of us at modelling and predicting elections and got both GE2010 and GE2015 right.
    Pah! Who needs people who are actually good at political betting when we can get the party faithfuls telling us why their side winning is a good bet?
    Are you not bothered by his holocaust denial?
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    DavidL said:

    Does anyone else remember swingback? Or does that only work if you have an opposition credible enough to be in the lead?

    Some of us remember Rod Crosby too.

    I wish we still had him now.

    He was better than any of us at modelling and predicting elections and got both GE2010 and GE2015 right.
    He was a holocaust denier and in spite of warning after warning he kept going on a about it.
    Why would anyone deny the bleeding obvious, where are they coming from? ☹️

    Though I recall he got 2015 spot on, and the reasons for it.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    isam said:

    DavidL said:

    Does anyone else remember swingback? Or does that only work if you have an opposition credible enough to be in the lead?

    Some of us remember Rod Crosby too.

    I wish we still had him now.

    He was better than any of us at modelling and predicting elections and got both GE2010 and GE2015 right.
    Pah! Who needs people who are actually good at political betting when we can get the party faithfuls telling us why their side winning is a good bet?
    Much better to have people telling us to ignore large swings in the polling towards Labour.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    alb1on said:

    alb1on said:

    nichomar said:

    LibDems are VERY touchy tonight.....

    No, just this one that has had enough of the Tory tripe that you push out all the time
    Now, now. Please do not dissuade him from posting more tripe. It helps to bring the Tories into disrepute.
    Telling the truth of what I find on the doorsteps. I can see why that would be seen as disreputable by LibDems.....
    Telling what you hear on the doorsteps is fine. Extrapolating from the elderly of Torbay to the national vote is the error.
    "Elderly"? Couldn't resist a snidy little put down?

    I think people here know who is the one to rely upon for their betting tips.....

  • egg said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Why is she wearing a “Girly Swot” t-shirt?

    Again, without being subtle or funny, it’s just a bit juvenile.
    On the day your leader is making wank jokes at the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition?
    Boris can pull it off, no pun intended. He can make a jibe seem fun and light-hearted.

    This just comes across as irritable and passive-aggressive.

    It doesn’t work.
    Yes, he can insert onanism into a speech without appearing a wanker himself!

    It's a valuable ability for a PM.
    I hope the newspaper cartoons don’t put it together with his flood troubles 😱
    I'll have a word with Marf. She may come up with a firm idea.
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    egg said:

    alb1on said:

    nichomar said:

    LibDems are VERY touchy tonight.....

    No, just this one that has had enough of the Tory tripe that you push out all the time
    Now, now. Please do not dissuade him from posting more tripe. It helps to bring the Tories into disrepute.
    Telling the truth of what I find on the doorsteps. I can see why that would be seen as disreputable by LibDems.....
    Million dollar question, if, in last days of campaign, you got a different impression from the doorsteps, would you tell us like Herdson did?
    I would, but I would restrict any conclusions to Guildford.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited November 2019
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Does anyone else remember swingback? Or does that only work if you have an opposition credible enough to be in the lead?

    Swingback will be a prominent feature of this election, north of the border.

    SCon to SLD swingback.
    I doubt it although some recovery in the Lib Dem vote from the last time is surely inevitable. They did astonishingly well to get the seats they did last time out with the total number of votes received. Some of those votes might come from the SNP. On Brexit at least they are fishing in the same pool.
    Wishful thinking.

    Although the SLDs have the wrong spokespeople, they have the right message (for their target audience): pro-Union + pro-Union. The Clown is selling a dud: pro-Union + anti-Union.
    40% of Scots disagreed with that in the referendum. That’s a nice deep pool for the Tories to fish in and, at least in their own seats, they have it all to themselves.
    Flaws:

    - 38% is not 40%
    - not all those 38% are pro-Union
    - if a deep pool was jam-packed full of salmon and sea-trout, the Scottish Tories would still manage to come home with two sticklebacks and a minnow.
    - no party has “their own seats”
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Car crash interview with Corbyn on C4. Wow. Changed his mind about indyref2 twice in one day, and now even his own party don't know what his stance is. Another nail in the Labour coffin.
  • egg said:

    DavidL said:

    Does anyone else remember swingback? Or does that only work if you have an opposition credible enough to be in the lead?

    Some of us remember Rod Crosby too.

    I wish we still had him now.

    He was better than any of us at modelling and predicting elections and got both GE2010 and GE2015 right.
    He was a holocaust denier and in spite of warning after warning he kept going on a about it.
    Why would anyone deny the bleeding obvious, where are they coming from? ☹️

    Though I recall he got 2015 spot on, and the reasons for it.
    So, Rod could predict the future but was not prepared to accept the past.

    Truly odd.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    egg said:

    alb1on said:

    nichomar said:

    LibDems are VERY touchy tonight.....

    No, just this one that has had enough of the Tory tripe that you push out all the time
    Now, now. Please do not dissuade him from posting more tripe. It helps to bring the Tories into disrepute.
    Telling the truth of what I find on the doorsteps. I can see why that would be seen as disreputable by LibDems.....
    Million dollar question, if, in last days of campaign, you got a different impression from the doorsteps, would you tell us like Herdson did?
    Of course. There'd be money to be made for all....
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,777
    edited November 2019

    Overview of Notts seats - the blog is historically left-leaning and anti-Soubry, now less so, but after the playful discussion of the ex-BXP candidate this one is more about other seats and quite neutral in flavour.

    https://beestonia.wordpress.com/2019/11/13/beestonia-election19-special-day-minus-31-brexit-bottlers-notts-constituency-round-up/

    The only 3 Nottinghamshire seats that will not be Blue after the election are the three Nottingham city seats. And even there there will be big cuts in the majorities.
    Beestonia says this is a future Lab MP to watch:

    Nadia Whittome in Nottm East

    https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/former-meadows-care-worker-selected-3475042
    Credit where credit is due. Labour seem to have selected an excellent local candidate, who grew up in and works in the constituency.

    This is how representative democracy works.
    What could possibly go wrong :smiley:
    She looks an entirely admirable young lady - 'girly swot' if she'd like to be so described.

    She's 23 it seems. "I learned my politics from grassroots struggles, trade unions and local campaigns and these movements are coming with me to Parliament". I don't see that this is anything other than indoctrination. She may be right, and she may be wrong, but her ideas are very far from her own.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    egg said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Why is she wearing a “Girly Swot” t-shirt?

    Again, without being subtle or funny, it’s just a bit juvenile.
    On the day your leader is making wank jokes at the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition?
    Boris can pull it off, no pun intended. He can make a jibe seem fun and light-hearted.

    This just comes across as irritable and passive-aggressive.

    It doesn’t work.
    Yes, he can insert onanism into a speech without appearing a wanker himself!

    It's a valuable ability for a PM.
    I hope the newspaper cartoons don’t put it together with his flood troubles 😱
    I'll have a word with Marf. She may come up with a firm idea.
    Don’t. Please don’t.
  • Alistair said:

    This is going to be on new of this times when there'll be a poll out showing the Majority of people agree with him again won't it?
    Most people believe a vile terrorist leader (who had led the beheading and killing of so many in such a vile way) shouldn't be shot while wearing a suicide vest?

    I'm happy to lay a bet at evens that no poll shows a majority of people agreeing with that!
  • egg said:

    DavidL said:

    Does anyone else remember swingback? Or does that only work if you have an opposition credible enough to be in the lead?

    Some of us remember Rod Crosby too.

    I wish we still had him now.

    He was better than any of us at modelling and predicting elections and got both GE2010 and GE2015 right.
    He was a holocaust denier and in spite of warning after warning he kept going on a about it.
    Why would anyone deny the bleeding obvious, where are they coming from? ☹️

    Though I recall he got 2015 spot on, and the reasons for it.
    Yes, it was difficult to understand how such an intelligent and precise man could be so prejudiced, but he was.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    alb1on said:

    egg said:

    alb1on said:

    nichomar said:

    LibDems are VERY touchy tonight.....

    No, just this one that has had enough of the Tory tripe that you push out all the time
    Now, now. Please do not dissuade him from posting more tripe. It helps to bring the Tories into disrepute.
    Telling the truth of what I find on the doorsteps. I can see why that would be seen as disreputable by LibDems.....
    Million dollar question, if, in last days of campaign, you got a different impression from the doorsteps, would you tell us like Herdson did?
    I would, but I would restrict any conclusions to Guildford.
    My reporting that the LibDems were going to get a shellacking in the SW in 2015 was entirely valid. It was well sourced - and for those who follwed it, nicely profitable.

    I
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Alistair said:

    This is going to be on new of this times when there'll be a poll out showing the Majority of people agree with him again won't it?
    Most people believe a vile terrorist leader (who had led the beheading and killing of so many in such a vile way) shouldn't be shot while wearing a suicide vest?

    I'm happy to lay a bet at evens that no poll shows a majority of people agreeing with that!
    Lay?
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    Alistair said:

    This is going to be on new of this times when there'll be a poll out showing the Majority of people agree with him again won't it?
    Most people believe a vile terrorist leader (who had led the beheading and killing of so many in such a vile way) shouldn't be shot while wearing a suicide vest?

    I'm happy to lay a bet at evens that no poll shows a majority of people agreeing with that!
    If it was put, would it have been better if he had been captured if possible, I would say yes.

    But then I’m probably thinking of pumping him with drugs so he sings, something Corbyn wouldn’t approve of?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Foxy said:

    Ashworth: "we are not talking about nationalising GPs"

    Why not? Tory-lite.
    Increasingly GPs are being directly employed by the NHS rather than as sub contracting private partnerships, and out of NHS owned premises. Even partners are directly paid, just not as salary, but rather as piece work.

    It is a counter trend to the privatisation of elective surgery, which continues apace.
    Interesting. Thanks.
    NHS privatization is difficult to quantify, whilst outsourcing none medical services like catering laundry make sense does putting most of the mental care counseling facilities out to tender make any sense. My daughter works for one which was won by a not for profit group but suddenly found they had been evicted from NHS office and consulting facilities and had to go round begging church halls, pubs and fire stations to provide them space. None of this makes the headlines and is also ignored by labour who just want it all back under union control in the state run model. As usual no real debate takes place
  • First election leaflet through the door here in Basingstoke from Maria Miller (9000 odd majority). Obviously can’t see her losing - blue rosette on dumb donkey territory here - but thought interesting that no picture of Boris anywhere. Brexit barely mentioned, all on local issues and this was a leave area.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,722

    Foxy said:

    Ashworth: "we are not talking about nationalising GPs"

    Why not? Tory-lite.
    Increasingly GPs are being directly employed by the NHS rather than as sub contracting private partnerships, and out of NHS owned premises. Even partners are directly paid, just not as salary, but rather as piece work.

    It is a counter trend to the privatisation of elective surgery, which continues apace.
    Interesting. Thanks.
    Largely it is happening in deprived areas, where GPs cannot be appointed even with repeated advertisements. The CCGs wind up as direct employers instead.
  • Alistair said:

    SNP drifting in Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (Con Maj = 11,060)

    Con 1/3
    SNP 11/4
    Bxp 50/1
    LD 50/1
    Lab 100/1

    Note: the Liberal Democrats held this seat from the 1960s until 2015. They are now 50/1. Times change.

    Ludicrously generous odds on Con. Should be 1/10 at the longest.
    I reluctantly concur. 1/3 is a risk-free 33% return in one month.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    This is going to be on new of this times when there'll be a poll out showing the Majority of people agree with him again won't it?
    Most people believe a vile terrorist leader (who had led the beheading and killing of so many in such a vile way) shouldn't be shot while wearing a suicide vest?

    I'm happy to lay a bet at evens that no poll shows a majority of people agreeing with that!
    Remember after the Manchester bombing in 2017 Corbyn said that Britain's actions abroad were in part to blame for terrorist bombings happening here?

    PB Tories went into a combination of meltdown and rapture both condemning him and loudly proclaiming that he had destroyed Labour's election chances.

    The next day a YouGov poll came out showing 52% of people agreed with him. That was including Don't Knows so an absolute majority.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    nichomar said:

    Foxy said:

    Ashworth: "we are not talking about nationalising GPs"

    Why not? Tory-lite.
    Increasingly GPs are being directly employed by the NHS rather than as sub contracting private partnerships, and out of NHS owned premises. Even partners are directly paid, just not as salary, but rather as piece work.

    It is a counter trend to the privatisation of elective surgery, which continues apace.
    Interesting. Thanks.
    NHS privatization is difficult to quantify, whilst outsourcing none medical services like catering laundry make sense does putting most of the mental care counseling facilities out to tender make any sense. My daughter works for one which was won by a not for profit group but suddenly found they had been evicted from NHS office and consulting facilities and had to go round begging church halls, pubs and fire stations to provide them space. None of this makes the headlines and is also ignored by labour who just want it all back under union control in the state run model. As usual no real debate takes place
    Trumps America just as keen on buying into the postal service and BBC as our socialist healthcare system. But they won’t touch midwifery.
  • Jason said:

    Car crash interview with Corbyn on C4. Wow. Changed his mind about indyref2 twice in one day, and now even his own party don't know what his stance is. Another nail in the Labour coffin.

    What is with Corbyn and referendums? The mention of one seems to render him terminally indecisive.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    Jason said:

    Car crash interview with Corbyn on C4. Wow. Changed his mind about indyref2 twice in one day, and now even his own party don't know what his stance is. Another nail in the Labour coffin.

    Wonder if Labour are so confident of those debates now?
  • dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Different times. Different audience. This seems a pretty good photo shoot to me and a worthy cause to be supporting (the venue not the Lib Dems :) ). I don't really see the downside for her.
    I cannot remember Richard ever saying anything positive about Swinson
    When they start being nice to you, start worrying.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    This is going to be on new of this times when there'll be a poll out showing the Majority of people agree with him again won't it?
    Most people believe a vile terrorist leader (who had led the beheading and killing of so many in such a vile way) shouldn't be shot while wearing a suicide vest?

    I'm happy to lay a bet at evens that no poll shows a majority of people agreeing with that!
    Remember after the Manchester bombing in 2017 Corbyn said that Britain's actions abroad were in part to blame for terrorist bombings happening here?

    PB Tories went into a combination of meltdown and rapture both condemning him and loudly proclaiming that he had destroyed Labour's election chances.

    The next day a YouGov poll came out showing 52% of people agreed with him. That was including Don't Knows so an absolute majority.
    Well Trump would agree with that. We’ve turned our heads away from the camps with ISIS in them, US pres now reckons they will walk to Europe and hurt us not manage to get to US.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    OldBasing said:

    First election leaflet through the door here in Basingstoke from Maria Miller (9000 odd majority). Obviously can’t see her losing - blue rosette on dumb donkey territory here - but thought interesting that no picture of Boris anywhere. Brexit barely mentioned, all on local issues and this was a leave area.

    Reflection on Miller rather than anything else - she could hardly shout about brexit when she disagrees with her party and her constituency.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    nichomar said:

    Noo said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Why is she wearing a “Girly Swot” t-shirt?

    Again, without being subtle or funny, it’s just a bit juvenile.
    Leaning into the casual sexism from Boris Johnson, co-opting it. It's a confident message. It works for me.
    But, you were already convinced?

    It’s soft Tories she needs.
    But the policy she pushes on this issue is right. Not her tee shirt etc etc any better ideas on how to reduce under 18 violent crime?
    Street Doctors has been a great organisation. Proud to have been part of their story
  • Twitter

    So a sniggering school boy line is briefed to media who respond with excitable predictability making it needless for the politician to say the words himself, blaming it on a "stray early draft". Hats off. They are playing the newspapers like turning on a pianola.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    OldBasing said:

    First election leaflet through the door here in Basingstoke from Maria Miller (9000 odd majority). Obviously can’t see her losing - blue rosette on dumb donkey territory here - but thought interesting that no picture of Boris anywhere. Brexit barely mentioned, all on local issues and this was a leave area.

    Is Maria a Cameroon? Does she have a say on her leaflet?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    nichomar said:

    alb1on said:

    nichomar said:

    LibDems are VERY touchy tonight.....

    No, just this one that has had enough of the Tory tripe that you push out all the time
    Now, now. Please do not dissuade him from posting more tripe. It helps to bring the Tories into disrepute.
    Telling the truth of what I find on the doorsteps. I can see why that would be seen as disreputable by LibDems.....
    Well while I no longer door step I’m sad to report that where I live it’s 49% brexit party 49% lib dem, of those who have a vote it’s 100% lib dem! So every cloud has a silver lining.
    Mis type 49% TBP and 49% Tory not lib dem
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,722
    nichomar said:

    Foxy said:

    Ashworth: "we are not talking about nationalising GPs"

    Why not? Tory-lite.
    Increasingly GPs are being directly employed by the NHS rather than as sub contracting private partnerships, and out of NHS owned premises. Even partners are directly paid, just not as salary, but rather as piece work.

    It is a counter trend to the privatisation of elective surgery, which continues apace.
    Interesting. Thanks.
    NHS privatization is difficult to quantify, whilst outsourcing none medical services like catering laundry make sense does putting most of the mental care counseling facilities out to tender make any sense. My daughter works for one which was won by a not for profit group but suddenly found they had been evicted from NHS office and consulting facilities and had to go round begging church halls, pubs and fire stations to provide them space. None of this makes the headlines and is also ignored by labour who just want it all back under union control in the state run model. As usual no real debate takes place
    A lot of outsourced portering and estate work is now back in house, including my own Trust. After several poor outsourcings, and lack of compliance by contractors, our services are back in direct control.
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698

    alb1on said:

    egg said:

    alb1on said:

    nichomar said:

    LibDems are VERY touchy tonight.....

    No, just this one that has had enough of the Tory tripe that you push out all the time
    Now, now. Please do not dissuade him from posting more tripe. It helps to bring the Tories into disrepute.
    Telling the truth of what I find on the doorsteps. I can see why that would be seen as disreputable by LibDems.....
    Million dollar question, if, in last days of campaign, you got a different impression from the doorsteps, would you tell us like Herdson did?
    I would, but I would restrict any conclusions to Guildford.
    My reporting that the LibDems were going to get a shellacking in the SW in 2015 was entirely valid. It was well sourced - and for those who follwed it, nicely profitable.

    I
    And although I have my doubts I can see that you may want to extrapolate from a SW seat to the wider SW - but extending that beyond the region? Therein lies madness.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    alb1on said:

    egg said:

    alb1on said:

    nichomar said:

    LibDems are VERY touchy tonight.....

    No, just this one that has had enough of the Tory tripe that you push out all the time
    Now, now. Please do not dissuade him from posting more tripe. It helps to bring the Tories into disrepute.
    Telling the truth of what I find on the doorsteps. I can see why that would be seen as disreputable by LibDems.....
    Million dollar question, if, in last days of campaign, you got a different impression from the doorsteps, would you tell us like Herdson did?
    I would, but I would restrict any conclusions to Guildford.
    My reporting that the LibDems were going to get a shellacking in the SW in 2015 was entirely valid. It was well sourced - and for those who follwed it, nicely profitable.

    I
    Are you predicting more of a mixed picture this time, high scoring draw?
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    Jason said:

    Car crash interview with Corbyn on C4. Wow. Changed his mind about indyref2 twice in one day, and now even his own party don't know what his stance is. Another nail in the Labour coffin.

    Wonder if Labour are so confident of those debates now?
    So what is his final position?
  • egg said:

    OldBasing said:

    First election leaflet through the door here in Basingstoke from Maria Miller (9000 odd majority). Obviously can’t see her losing - blue rosette on dumb donkey territory here - but thought interesting that no picture of Boris anywhere. Brexit barely mentioned, all on local issues and this was a leave area.

    Is Maria a Cameroon? Does she have a say on her leaflet?
    No idea, I’m just a humble voter and bettor; but I thought the absence of Boris was noteworthy if he supposed to be a great asset to Tory election fortunes.
  • egg said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Why is she wearing a “Girly Swot” t-shirt?

    Again, without being subtle or funny, it’s just a bit juvenile.
    On the day your leader is making wank jokes at the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition?
    Boris can pull it off, no pun intended. He can make a jibe seem fun and light-hearted.

    This just comes across as irritable and passive-aggressive.

    It doesn’t work.
    Yes, he can insert onanism into a speech without appearing a wanker himself!

    It's a valuable ability for a PM.
    I hope the newspaper cartoons don’t put it together with his flood troubles 😱
    I'll have a word with Marf. She may come up with a firm idea.
    How hard could it be?

    :D
  • SNP start FAV in Banff & Buchan (Con Maj = 3,693)

    SNP 5/6
    Con 5/4
    Lab 100/1
    LD 100/1
  • maaarsh said:

    OldBasing said:

    First election leaflet through the door here in Basingstoke from Maria Miller (9000 odd majority). Obviously can’t see her losing - blue rosette on dumb donkey territory here - but thought interesting that no picture of Boris anywhere. Brexit barely mentioned, all on local issues and this was a leave area.

    Reflection on Miller rather than anything else - she could hardly shout about brexit when she disagrees with her party and her constituency.
    What about HS2? Did she not resign from Cabinet over that?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,003
    edited November 2019
    DavidL said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Why is she wearing a “Girly Swot” t-shirt?

    Again, without being subtle or funny, it’s just a bit juvenile.
    She's going to have to up her game if she's going to compete with will I or won't I float a meme about posh wanking and the leader of the opposition.

  • Evening all and an interesting thread so far. Jeremy Corbyn had a howler in Scotland today. STV was reporting his meetings were poorly attended and showed one man in the street calling him a terrorist sympathiser. In interviews he kept trying to refine his position on IndyRef2 and the best he could offer was not in the early years of a Labour government. Labour in Scotland is heading for a meltdown on 12th December unless there is a dramatic turn of events.

    I often agree with Stuart Dickson but thus far there is no evidence of SCon to SLib drift. Indeed the SLibs I am speaking to are worried not hyper confident. Orkney is safe and I still think cousin Jamie will hold here but maybe the Bearsden girl guide and Christine Jardine should not be quite so bullish about their chances.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,777

    Jason said:

    Car crash interview with Corbyn on C4. Wow. Changed his mind about indyref2 twice in one day, and now even his own party don't know what his stance is. Another nail in the Labour coffin.

    What is with Corbyn and referendums? The mention of one seems to render him terminally indecisive.
    If you can't work out where the rich are on an issue then Corbyn is stumped.

  • Remember that NI thread a few days ago? SDLP now just 1/4 to gain Foyle from SF. That’ll increase the threshold for a Westminster majority.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    egg said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Why is she wearing a “Girly Swot” t-shirt?

    Again, without being subtle or funny, it’s just a bit juvenile.
    On the day your leader is making wank jokes at the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition?
    Boris can pull it off, no pun intended. He can make a jibe seem fun and light-hearted.

    This just comes across as irritable and passive-aggressive.

    It doesn’t work.
    Yes, he can insert onanism into a speech without appearing a wanker himself!

    It's a valuable ability for a PM.
    I hope the newspaper cartoons don’t put it together with his flood troubles 😱
    I'll have a word with Marf. She may come up with a firm idea.
    How hard could it be?


    Oh Bev! Not you too 🔔
  • egg said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Why is she wearing a “Girly Swot” t-shirt?

    Again, without being subtle or funny, it’s just a bit juvenile.
    On the day your leader is making wank jokes at the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition?
    Boris can pull it off, no pun intended. He can make a jibe seem fun and light-hearted.

    This just comes across as irritable and passive-aggressive.

    It doesn’t work.
    Yes, he can insert onanism into a speech without appearing a wanker himself!

    It's a valuable ability for a PM.
    I hope the newspaper cartoons don’t put it together with his flood troubles 😱
    I'll have a word with Marf. She may come up with a firm idea.
    How hard could it be?

    :D
    Ooh er, Missus! Now you behave yourself, young lady, or you'll be getting JackW all steamed up, and Matron won't like that.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Evening all and an interesting thread so far. Jeremy Corbyn had a howler in Scotland today. STV was reporting his meetings were poorly attended and showed one man in the street calling him a terrorist sympathiser. In interviews he kept trying to refine his position on IndyRef2 and the best he could offer was not in the early years of a Labour government. Labour in Scotland is heading for a meltdown on 12th December unless there is a dramatic turn of events.

    I often agree with Stuart Dickson but thus far there is no evidence of SCon to SLib drift. Indeed the SLibs I am speaking to are worried not hyper confident. Orkney is safe and I still think cousin Jamie will hold here but maybe the Bearsden girl guide and Christine Jardine should not be quite so bullish about their chances.

    As I asked David.


    The Lib Dem vote has doubled from 2017, why does that not translate into good things for the Lib Dems? They took seats on a falling share of the vote last time out.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,488
    nichomar said:

    Foxy said:

    Ashworth: "we are not talking about nationalising GPs"

    Why not? Tory-lite.
    Increasingly GPs are being directly employed by the NHS rather than as sub contracting private partnerships, and out of NHS owned premises. Even partners are directly paid, just not as salary, but rather as piece work.

    It is a counter trend to the privatisation of elective surgery, which continues apace.
    Interesting. Thanks.
    NHS privatization is difficult to quantify, whilst outsourcing none medical services like catering laundry make sense does putting most of the mental care counseling facilities out to tender make any sense. My daughter works for one which was won by a not for profit group but suddenly found they had been evicted from NHS office and consulting facilities and had to go round begging church halls, pubs and fire stations to provide them space. None of this makes the headlines and is also ignored by labour who just want it all back under union control in the state run model. As usual no real debate takes place
    For me, discussion about outsourcing misses the point. The merit of successful privatisation is the democratisation of demand, not changing the supplier. The flow of money must be reversed - it should flow from the users of the service to the providers. Then the service will improve.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    I see the evidence of how much in love with the past our parties continues to pile up, with Labour banging the 'SNP let in Thatcher' drum. It's not like that was a guarantee of 18 years of Tory rule if Labour had fotten their sh*t together in the intervening years, maybe it's time to let it go.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    This is going to be on new of this times when there'll be a poll out showing the Majority of people agree with him again won't it?
    Most people believe a vile terrorist leader (who had led the beheading and killing of so many in such a vile way) shouldn't be shot while wearing a suicide vest?

    I'm happy to lay a bet at evens that no poll shows a majority of people agreeing with that!
    Remember after the Manchester bombing in 2017 Corbyn said that Britain's actions abroad were in part to blame for terrorist bombings happening here?
    Which was, of course, entirely correct.
  • Twitter

    So a sniggering school boy line is briefed to media who respond with excitable predictability making it needless for the politician to say the words himself, blaming it on a "stray early draft". Hats off. They are playing the newspapers like turning on a pianola.

    Oh I think everyone appreciates what the game was but that shouldn't stop us having a little fun.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    kle4 said:

    I see the evidence of how much in love with the past our parties continues to pile up, with Labour banging the 'SNP let in Thatcher' drum. It's not like that was a guarantee of 18 years of Tory rule if Labour had fotten their sh*t together in the intervening years, maybe it's time to let it go.

    If they don’t bang on about that, they might have to discuss their current policies, which would be far more awkward.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    I think one of the interesting sideshows of this election is:

    Dead Tree Press vs Online Media

    It'll be interesting to see who comes out on top.
  • Omnium said:

    Jason said:

    Car crash interview with Corbyn on C4. Wow. Changed his mind about indyref2 twice in one day, and now even his own party don't know what his stance is. Another nail in the Labour coffin.

    What is with Corbyn and referendums? The mention of one seems to render him terminally indecisive.
    If you can't work out where the rich are on an issue then Corbyn is stumped.

    Or US Imperialists.

    He's stumped on Brexit because both Putin and Trump want us to leave.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    edited November 2019
    egg said:

    alb1on said:

    egg said:

    alb1on said:

    nichomar said:

    LibDems are VERY touchy tonight.....

    No, just this one that has had enough of the Tory tripe that you push out all the time
    Now, now. Please do not dissuade him from posting more tripe. It helps to bring the Tories into disrepute.
    Telling the truth of what I find on the doorsteps. I can see why that would be seen as disreputable by LibDems.....
    Million dollar question, if, in last days of campaign, you got a different impression from the doorsteps, would you tell us like Herdson did?
    I would, but I would restrict any conclusions to Guildford.
    My reporting that the LibDems were going to get a shellacking in the SW in 2015 was entirely valid. It was well sourced - and for those who follwed it, nicely profitable.

    I
    Are you predicting more of a mixed picture this time, high scoring draw?
    St. Ives likely to be a LibDem gain.

    North Cornwall and North Devon are going to be tight. The comments of the previous LD candidate in North Devon are going to be played back. These ill-considered sentiments - and no Brexit Party - has made it significantly trickier for them in the SW.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156

    DavidL said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Why is she wearing a “Girly Swot” t-shirt?

    Again, without being subtle or funny, it’s just a bit juvenile.
    Kinda ties in with the bollocks to Brexit meme. Juvenile.
    I was told that the Girly Swot jibe comes up an awful lot in focus groups (and not just the ones run by the Tories.)

    There's an entire group of women who generally voted Conservative but can be described as Boris sceptic, whilst Corbyn is the alternative Boris Johnson is fine, but I suspect Jo Swinson is playing the long game for the election after next.
    She’ll have to given she’s blown this one.
    Well it depends on when the next election is, if we do get a hung Parliament, or technical Tory majority that is more observed in the breach than observance then we could have another election in 2020.
    Yep. See you all for GE Mar/April 2020.
    Depends how hung, we might eke it out to the autumn 2020.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Anyway, in other news, my lifelong Conservative voting brother has just decided and declared how he is going to vote.

    LibDem

    And he's in a SW London marginal.

    Don't be too cocky you tory boys.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited November 2019

    Evening all and an interesting thread so far. Jeremy Corbyn had a howler in Scotland today. STV was reporting his meetings were poorly attended and showed one man in the street calling him a terrorist sympathiser. In interviews he kept trying to refine his position on IndyRef2 and the best he could offer was not in the early years of a Labour government. Labour in Scotland is heading for a meltdown on 12th December unless there is a dramatic turn of events.

    I often agree with Stuart Dickson but thus far there is no evidence of SCon to SLib drift. Indeed the SLibs I am speaking to are worried not hyper confident. Orkney is safe and I still think cousin Jamie will hold here but maybe the Bearsden girl guide and Christine Jardine should not be quite so bullish about their chances.

    No evidence of SCon to SLD drift? Here’s the current odds for Ross, Skye & Lochaber:

    SNP 1/10
    SLD 4/1
    SCon 25/1
    SLab 50/1

    Result last time:
    SNP 40%
    SCon 25%
    SLD 21%
    SLab 12%

    SCon clearly going backwards. SLD clearly advancing.

    The Bearsden girl guide is in trouble, and the 7/2 SNP price is bloody tempting.

    Christine Jardine is head-in-hands useless, but the short 9/4 SNP price is not remotely attractive.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Evening all and an interesting thread so far. Jeremy Corbyn had a howler in Scotland today. STV was reporting his meetings were poorly attended and showed one man in the street calling him a terrorist sympathiser. In interviews he kept trying to refine his position on IndyRef2 and the best he could offer was not in the early years of a Labour government. Labour in Scotland is heading for a meltdown on 12th December unless there is a dramatic turn of events.

    In an election not exactly filled with racing certainties, one of the exceptions is the destruction of Scottish Labour. Everything bar Edinburgh South is going.

    It's just a shame that there's no sign of a rout South of the Tweed as well...

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1194569570520051712

    This is the story of the campaign so far. The slow but inevitable rise of the Labour vote share. The only thing that surprises me is that they're not doing better than this already, but there's a whole month still to go.

    This isn't going to be a carbon copy of 2017, but it'll be very much like it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    TudorRose said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Does anyone else remember swingback? Or does that only work if you have an opposition credible enough to be in the lead?

    Swingback will be a prominent feature of this election, north of the border.

    SCon to SLD swingback.
    I doubt it although some recovery in the Lib Dem vote from the last time is surely inevitable. They did astonishingly well to get the seats they did last time out with the total number of votes received. Some of those votes might come from the SNP. On Brexit at least they are fishing in the same pool.
    Wishful thinking.

    Although the SLDs have the wrong spokespeople, they have the right message (for their target audience): pro-Union + pro-Union. The Clown is selling a dud: pro-Union + anti-Union.
    If the LD's are pro-union why are they in an electoral alliance with a nationalist party in Wales?
    Given we are told an informal alliance with BXP means the Tories are basically BXP too!

    But in truth obviously all are pretty flexible.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    kle4 said:

    I see the evidence of how much in love with the past our parties continues to pile up, with Labour banging the 'SNP let in Thatcher' drum. It's not like that was a guarantee of 18 years of Tory rule if Labour had fotten their sh*t together in the intervening years, maybe it's time to let it go.

    "SNP let in Thatcher" is absolutely essential to the SLab psyche. It is a touchstone of faith that let's them ignore that it was the Labour supported gerrymandering of the '79 devo referendum that led to the No Confidence vote passing.

    If they let it go then they have to face up to uncomfortable truths.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    Anyway, in other news, my lifelong Conservative voting brother has just decided and declared how he is going to vote.

    LibDem

    And he's in a SW London marginal.

    Don't be too cocky you tory boys.

    Wow. Well my brother is moving from LDem to Con in a very tight Con/Lib Dem West Country marginal.

    Don’t be too cocky Labour girl.
  • Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    This is going to be on new of this times when there'll be a poll out showing the Majority of people agree with him again won't it?
    Most people believe a vile terrorist leader (who had led the beheading and killing of so many in such a vile way) shouldn't be shot while wearing a suicide vest?

    I'm happy to lay a bet at evens that no poll shows a majority of people agreeing with that!
    Remember after the Manchester bombing in 2017 Corbyn said that Britain's actions abroad were in part to blame for terrorist bombings happening here?

    PB Tories went into a combination of meltdown and rapture both condemning him and loudly proclaiming that he had destroyed Labour's election chances.

    The next day a YouGov poll came out showing 52% of people agreed with him. That was including Don't Knows so an absolute majority.
    He was stupid and wrong. The fact the majority were dumb enough to agree doesnt change that.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    So the electorate is now faced with a simple choice:

    Jezza or Jizza
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    Noo said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Why is she wearing a “Girly Swot” t-shirt?

    Again, without being subtle or funny, it’s just a bit juvenile.
    Leaning into the casual sexism from Boris Johnson, co-opting it. It's a confident message. It works for me.
    I'm still at a loss why it occurred to him to scribble a juvenille insult about Cameron in a note on a political strategy. I think it demonstrates that r he really is like that, it is not a persona he adopts.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,722

    nichomar said:

    Foxy said:

    Ashworth: "we are not talking about nationalising GPs"

    Why not? Tory-lite.
    Increasingly GPs are being directly employed by the NHS rather than as sub contracting private partnerships, and out of NHS owned premises. Even partners are directly paid, just not as salary, but rather as piece work.

    It is a counter trend to the privatisation of elective surgery, which continues apace.
    Interesting. Thanks.
    NHS privatization is difficult to quantify, whilst outsourcing none medical services like catering laundry make sense does putting most of the mental care counseling facilities out to tender make any sense. My daughter works for one which was won by a not for profit group but suddenly found they had been evicted from NHS office and consulting facilities and had to go round begging church halls, pubs and fire stations to provide them space. None of this makes the headlines and is also ignored by labour who just want it all back under union control in the state run model. As usual no real debate takes place
    For me, discussion about outsourcing misses the point. The merit of successful privatisation is the democratisation of demand, not changing the supplier. The flow of money must be reversed - it should flow from the users of the service to the providers. Then the service will improve.
    That is not how NHS privatisation works. Monopoly service contracts are sold off to the highest bidder, with your operation being sold like cattle at auction. It is not a system to serve the customer, unless you consider the CCG to be the customer, and the patient the commodity.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156

    dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Why is she wearing a “Girly Swot” t-shirt?

    Again, without being subtle or funny, it’s just a bit juvenile.
    Appealing to Cameroons?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited November 2019
    New YouGov tables out and the Tories are doing better with working class C2DEs on 47% than they are nationally on 42% (they are on 38% with middle class ABC1s and still lead with middle class voters but less strongly).

    Labour are now doing better with middle class ABC1s on 29% to the 27% they are on with C2DEs. The LDs are far higher with middle class ABC1s on 19% to the 9% they are on with working class voters.

    Tories lead 54% to 20% in the South, 42% to 29% in the Midlands and are just 1% behind Labour in the North, 37% to 38%.

    Labour lead in London still 40% to 28% for the Tories and in Scotland the SNP are on 41%, the Tories on 25% and Labour and the LDs tied on 14%.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/w3ohbvr6zt/Sky_TheTimes_VI_191112_w.pdf
  • Alistair said:

    Evening all and an interesting thread so far. Jeremy Corbyn had a howler in Scotland today. STV was reporting his meetings were poorly attended and showed one man in the street calling him a terrorist sympathiser. In interviews he kept trying to refine his position on IndyRef2 and the best he could offer was not in the early years of a Labour government. Labour in Scotland is heading for a meltdown on 12th December unless there is a dramatic turn of events.

    I often agree with Stuart Dickson but thus far there is no evidence of SCon to SLib drift. Indeed the SLibs I am speaking to are worried not hyper confident. Orkney is safe and I still think cousin Jamie will hold here but maybe the Bearsden girl guide and Christine Jardine should not be quite so bullish about their chances.

    As I asked David.


    The Lib Dem vote has doubled from 2017, why does that not translate into good things for the Lib Dems? They took seats on a falling share of the vote last time out.
    Going from 4th to 3rd or 4th to 2nd doesn't win any prizes. They can be putting on lots of support in Central Scotland former Labour seats. Most SCon voters are Brexit supporters. Remember 1 million Scots voted for Brexit. Most of them were outside Central Scotland.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    egg said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Any aide who suggested this to Margaret Thatcher would have been looking for a P45 pdq. Jo Swinson might have been better to not do it.

    https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/1194591808556355584

    It doesn't even beat Willie Rennie mucking out pigs.

    Why is she wearing a “Girly Swot” t-shirt?

    Again, without being subtle or funny, it’s just a bit juvenile.
    On the day your leader is making wank jokes at the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition?
    Boris can pull it off, no pun intended. He can make a jibe seem fun and light-hearted.

    This just comes across as irritable and passive-aggressive.

    It doesn’t work.
    Yes, he can insert onanism into a speech without appearing a wanker himself!

    It's a valuable ability for a PM.
    I hope the newspaper cartoons don’t put it together with his flood troubles 😱
    I'm not convinced that Boris really intended to say something like this - I think it's more a case of cock-up than conspiracy...
This discussion has been closed.