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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721
    I see BoZo claims to be a Clash fan. I wonder if he often listens to this one.

    https://youtu.be/NUnV-486qTk
  • One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.
  • There’s a poll out tonight showing 67% of Britons support freedom of movement across the UK and EU. Which makes me again wonder why we bothered with this pointless Brexit lark in the first place.

    Also makes you wonder how inept the Remain campaign was not to win those people to vote for the EU? On the face of it they should have crushed it 2:1.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    If all the remaining available choices are utterly repellent, then abstention could be considered honourable?

    as a brexiteer in a seat held by a remainer tory I now have a choice of three variants of remain and no leave candidate. Spoilt ballot will get my vote.
    Under those circumstances you surely want to go for the Tory? The fact that said candidate might, personally, have preferred that we never leave the EU is neither here nor there. They will endorse the Withdrawal Agreement regardless.

    All of the Conservative MPs who were so implacably opposed to Brexit that they wanted to force either Norway + CU, a confirmatory referendum or both have already gone. Any candidate returned or elected for the first time under the 2019 manifesto is fully signed up to Johnson's programme.

    Even if you suspect that your local Tory might get up to funny business during the negotiations on the future relationship, at least they will give Brexit the chance to get that far. If given the opportunity, the other alternatives either may not or will not do so.
    You would say that wouldn't you.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Buttigieg a touch short at 6.2 right now on Betfair. I've laid back a smidgen, he'll probably shorten further after Iowa anyway.

    Buttigieg is spending a fortune in Iowa but beyond there he is not making much impact
    Laughable.

    He's on 15%, only five points behind Biden in New Hampshire, and up about seven points in the last month.

    If he wins Iowa, the he's odds on to win New Hamphire.

    If he's won Iowa and New Hampshire then... oh yes... he's probably the Democratic nominee.
    Buttigieg is 4th in the latest New Hampshire polls behind Warren, Biden and Sanders.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_New_Hampshire_Democratic_primary
    Wikipedia is out of date. See: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/new-hampshire/
    He is still 3rd in the latest NH poll there behind Biden and Warren
    Serious question:

    Would you rather be third and five points behind the leader, or second and fifteen points adrift?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    CatMan said:
    Ha ha, you are shitting me. The public really are a funny bunch aren't they.
    We are rejoining the EU by 2030.
    Depends how unpopular PM Boris is by then
  • Boris clip on BBC 10 news on floods.

    Dreadful. A series of erms and uhs and uncertain sentences.

    Is he well?
  • There’s a poll out tonight showing 67% of Britons support freedom of movement across the UK and EU. Which makes me again wonder why we bothered with this pointless Brexit lark in the first place.

    In 12 months we will all be wondering about that :D:D
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234

    My best WH2020 bet is Amy Klobuchar. In October I got odds of 760 on her on Betfair -My stake £8 my potential winnings £6,072.00.

    She's still in the race

    Who?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    Lol You've just made everyone here feel errm... old :D
  • There’s a poll out tonight showing 67% of Britons support freedom of movement across the UK and EU. Which makes me again wonder why we bothered with this pointless Brexit lark in the first place.

    Because for many of us Leave voters it has nothing to do with immigration...? You lot like to suggest most of us voted on immigration grounds and you won’t hear anything else.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    eristdoof said:

    If all the remaining available choices are utterly repellent, then abstention could be considered honourable?

    as a brexiteer in a seat held by a remainer tory I now have a choice of three variants of remain and no leave candidate. Spoilt ballot will get my vote.
    Under those circumstances you surely want to go for the Tory? The fact that said candidate might, personally, have preferred that we never leave the EU is neither here nor there. They will endorse the Withdrawal Agreement regardless.

    All of the Conservative MPs who were so implacably opposed to Brexit that they wanted to force either Norway + CU, a confirmatory referendum or both have already gone. Any candidate returned or elected for the first time under the 2019 manifesto is fully signed up to Johnson's programme.

    Even if you suspect that your local Tory might get up to funny business during the negotiations on the future relationship, at least they will give Brexit the chance to get that far. If given the opportunity, the other alternatives either may not or will not do so.
    You would say that wouldn't you.
    Only given the specific circumstances described.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Buttigieg a touch short at 6.2 right now on Betfair. I've laid back a smidgen, he'll probably shorten further after Iowa anyway.

    Buttigieg is spending a fortune in Iowa but beyond there he is not making much impact
    Laughable.

    He's on 15%, only five points behind Biden in New Hampshire, and up about seven points in the last month.

    If he wins Iowa, the he's odds on to win New Hamphire.

    If he's won Iowa and New Hampshire then... oh yes... he's probably the Democratic nominee.
    Doesn’t the new system make that much less certain? With delegates awarded proportionately, the convention is likely to be determinative. Pete Buttigieg might be good at horse-trading. Or he might not. We don’t know yet.
    I thought that.

    But then I remembered the 15% threshold (albeit at the precinct level). This means we're likely to see four candidates (at most).

    Take Iowa. Imagine the players are Warren, Buttigieg, Biden, Sanders in that order. Well, it'll probably be 40-30-20-10 for delegate share. In New Hampshire, it'll be the same four. And the fourth placed player - unless there's a big reshuffling of the deck - will likely be forced out.

    I think it's likely that come Super Tuesday there will only be three players in the game. Which three? Who knows.
    "Buttigieg is spending a fortune in Iowa"

    and he has the money.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited November 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    Lol You've just made everyone here feel errm... old :D
    I saw no reason why I should suffer alone.

    EDIT I’m also a year out. He’d have been born in 1998. Scary.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    nico67 said:

    Let’s be blunt if Labour become the biggest party is Jo Swinson really going to say no I refuse to support you for enough time to get a second EU vote .

    Talk about betrayal then, given the Lib Dems sole mission is to stop Brexit will she really refuse to support them and end up having another election .

    No. She'll get creative.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Buttigieg a touch short at 6.2 right now on Betfair. I've laid back a smidgen, he'll probably shorten further after Iowa anyway.

    Buttigieg is spending a fortune in Iowa but beyond there he is not making much impact
    Laughable.

    He's on 15%, only five points behind Biden in New Hampshire, and up about seven points in the last month.

    If he wins Iowa, the he's odds on to win New Hamphire.

    If he's won Iowa and New Hampshire then... oh yes... he's probably the Democratic nominee.
    Doesn’t the new system make that much less certain? With delegates awarded proportionately, the convention is likely to be determinative. Pete Buttigieg might be good at horse-trading. Or he might not. We don’t know yet.
    I thought that.

    But then I remembered the 15% threshold (albeit at the precinct level). This means we're likely to see four candidates (at most).

    Take Iowa. Imagine the players are Warren, Buttigieg, Biden, Sanders in that order. Well, it'll probably be 40-30-20-10 for delegate share. In New Hampshire, it'll be the same four. And the fourth placed player - unless there's a big reshuffling of the deck - will likely be forced out.

    I think it's likely that come Super Tuesday there will only be three players in the game. Which three? Who knows.
    Not Sanders.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    It goes back further than that. I was born in 1992 and you can argue the same applies.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912

    Boris clip on BBC 10 news on floods.

    Dreadful. A series of erms and uhs and uncertain sentences.

    Is he well?

    Sounds like normal Boris when having to discuss any subject — and there are a lot of them — where he can't really be arsed to do his homework.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    Boris clip on BBC 10 news on floods.

    Dreadful. A series of erms and uhs and uncertain sentences.

    Is he well?

    No he was just thinking before he spoke while announcing the new money for flood relief and prevention
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234
    nico67 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Buttigieg a touch short at 6.2 right now on Betfair. I've laid back a smidgen, he'll probably shorten further after Iowa anyway.

    Buttigieg is spending a fortune in Iowa but beyond there he is not making much impact
    Laughable.

    He's on 15%, only five points behind Biden in New Hampshire, and up about seven points in the last month.

    If he wins Iowa, the he's odds on to win New Hamphire.

    If he's won Iowa and New Hampshire then... oh yes... he's probably the Democratic nominee.
    A gay presidential candidate and the Dems really will have handed the election to Trump , you’re not going to win the key swing states .

    Sorry to be blunt and not politically correct but seriously there’s no chance the USA will vote for a gay President . The Dems need to get out of their bubble and put forward Biden who is the only one who can win those swing states .

    Running up big totals in California and NY means zip with the Electoral College system .
    Stating something with great certainty doesn't make it true.

    You might have written:

    "A black presidential candidate and the Dems really will have handed the election to the Republicans , you’re not going to win the key swing states ."

    or

    "If the Republicans pick a liar, a fornicator, an atheist, a man who's paid his mistresses to have abortions, then the evangelicals simply won't turn up. They'll be handing the election to the Democrats."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Buttigieg a touch short at 6.2 right now on Betfair. I've laid back a smidgen, he'll probably shorten further after Iowa anyway.

    Buttigieg is spending a fortune in Iowa but beyond there he is not making much impact
    Laughable.

    He's on 15%, only five points behind Biden in New Hampshire, and up about seven points in the last month.

    If he wins Iowa, the he's odds on to win New Hamphire.

    If he's won Iowa and New Hampshire then... oh yes... he's probably the Democratic nominee.
    Buttigieg is 4th in the latest New Hampshire polls behind Warren, Biden and Sanders.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_New_Hampshire_Democratic_primary
    Wikipedia is out of date. See: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/new-hampshire/
    He is still 3rd in the latest NH poll there behind Biden and Warren
    Serious question:

    Would you rather be third and five points behind the leader, or second and fifteen points adrift?
    Second as you are the main alternative
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156

    dr_spyn said:
    @BrexitStewart, aka Stewart Jackson, also tried to get Sevenoaks. Clearly eager to become an MP again.
    I know local connection is not all there is (and people might have connection with several areas) and parachuted MPs can be good too, but it feels like if you've tried being selected in several other seats at least you should be ruled out standing for others - you've had a decent chance after all.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    Boris clip on BBC 10 news on floods.

    Dreadful. A series of erms and uhs and uncertain sentences.

    Is he well?

    No he was just thinking before he spoke while announcing the new money for flood relief and prevention
    Of course Boris can do no wrong. I forgot.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    Pulpstar said:

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    Lol You've just made everyone here feel errm... old :D
    I’ve got a tin opener older than him....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Buttigieg a touch short at 6.2 right now on Betfair. I've laid back a smidgen, he'll probably shorten further after Iowa anyway.

    Buttigieg is spending a fortune in Iowa but beyond there he is not making much impact
    Laughable.

    He's on 15%, only five points behind Biden in New Hampshire, and up about seven points in the last month.

    If he wins Iowa, the he's odds on to win New Hamphire.

    If he's won Iowa and New Hampshire then... oh yes... he's probably the Democratic nominee.
    Doesn’t the new system make that much less certain? With delegates awarded proportionately, the convention is likely to be determinative. Pete Buttigieg might be good at horse-trading. Or he might not. We don’t know yet.
    I thought that.

    But then I remembered the 15% threshold (albeit at the precinct level). This means we're likely to see four candidates (at most).

    Take Iowa. Imagine the players are Warren, Buttigieg, Biden, Sanders in that order. Well, it'll probably be 40-30-20-10 for delegate share. In New Hampshire, it'll be the same four. And the fourth placed player - unless there's a big reshuffling of the deck - will likely be forced out.

    I think it's likely that come Super Tuesday there will only be three players in the game. Which three? Who knows.
    Not Sanders.
    That's when the Bernibots and the quad fall behind Warren.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    edited November 2019

    Boris clip on BBC 10 news on floods.

    Dreadful. A series of erms and uhs and uncertain sentences.

    Is he well?

    He's not articulate - has he ever been? A speech or written column is a different thing altogether.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    The Conservative Party is in a bleak state
    https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1194367239727828994
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Buttigieg a touch short at 6.2 right now on Betfair. I've laid back a smidgen, he'll probably shorten further after Iowa anyway.

    Buttigieg is spending a fortune in Iowa but beyond there he is not making much impact
    Laughable.

    He's on 15%, only five points behind Biden in New Hampshire, and up about seven points in the last month.

    If he wins Iowa, the he's odds on to win New Hamphire.

    If he's won Iowa and New Hampshire then... oh yes... he's probably the Democratic nominee.
    Doesn’t the new system make that much less certain? With delegates awarded proportionately, the convention is likely to be determinative. Pete Buttigieg might be good at horse-trading. Or he might not. We don’t know yet.
    I thought that.

    But then I remembered the 15% threshold (albeit at the precinct level). This means we're likely to see four candidates (at most).

    Take Iowa. Imagine the players are Warren, Buttigieg, Biden, Sanders in that order. Well, it'll probably be 40-30-20-10 for delegate share. In New Hampshire, it'll be the same four. And the fourth placed player - unless there's a big reshuffling of the deck - will likely be forced out.

    I think it's likely that come Super Tuesday there will only be three players in the game. Which three? Who knows.
    Not Sanders.
    That's when the Bernibots and the quad fall behind Warren.
    I think that's likely.

    But it's worth remembering that if you divide the Democratic field into Centrists and Radicals, then it's half-and-half.

    If Biden gets zero delegates in Iowa and New Hampshire, will he really still go on to win South Carolina?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156

    HYUFD said:

    Boris clip on BBC 10 news on floods.

    Dreadful. A series of erms and uhs and uncertain sentences.

    Is he well?

    No he was just thinking before he spoke while announcing the new money for flood relief and prevention
    Of course Boris can do no wrong. I forgot.
    Ah, but he can. HYUFD concedes Boris could not win a GE running a fiscally sensible campaign, hence the need to splurge cash.
  • kle4 said:

    Boris clip on BBC 10 news on floods.

    Dreadful. A series of erms and uhs and uncertain sentences.

    Is he well?

    He's not articulate - has he ever been? A speech or written column is a different thing altogether.
    It’s like having Frankie Howard as Prime Minister. At least Frankie Howerd’s ejaculations were all fully scripted.
  • One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    Good evening all.

    It's unlikely that your relentless negativity about life in Britain has inspired him. He's not had to storm the beaches of Normandy, not lived through mass poverty or unemployment and technology has created opportunities for him that were unimaginable even in 1997. If annual economic growth of 2% is as bad as it gets he's a lucky, lucky man.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    HYUFD said:

    Except Labour are on just 28% and 29% with Yougov and Survation today, so the Labour vote is already down to its core with pro Brexit 2017 Labour voters already having switched to the Tories or Brexit Party. Boris with Yougov today does not need to convert a single extra Labour voter, as long as he holds the current Tory vote he would still win a landslide

    Bloody Survation fieldwork was from last week! I will have to adjust ELBOW for week-ending 10th Nov again!
    OK, so including Survation, ELBOW for week-ending 10th November:

    CON 38.1% (+0.2)
    LAB 28.2% (+1.9)
    LD 16.1% (+0.1)
    BXP 9.1% (-1.3)
    SNP 3.7% (+0.1)
    GRN 3.4% (-0.2)
    PC 0.6% (-0.2)
    Oth 0.8% (-0.5)

    CON lead 9.9% (-1.4)

    10 polls = Survation, BMG, ComRes, Deltapoll, Opinium, Panelbase, ICM, 3 YouGovs
    One decimal place.

    Progress!

    And thanks for the update!
  • Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Buttigieg a touch short at 6.2 right now on Betfair. I've laid back a smidgen, he'll probably shorten further after Iowa anyway.

    Buttigieg is spending a fortune in Iowa but beyond there he is not making much impact
    Laughable.

    He's on 15%, only five points behind Biden in New Hampshire, and up about seven points in the last month.

    If he wins Iowa, the he's odds on to win New Hamphire.

    If he's won Iowa and New Hampshire then... oh yes... he's probably the Democratic nominee.
    Doesn’t the new system make that much less certain? With delegates awarded proportionately, the convention is likely to be determinative. Pete Buttigieg might be good at horse-trading. Or he might not. We don’t know yet.
    I thought that.

    But then I remembered the 15% threshold (albeit at the precinct level). This means we're likely to see four candidates (at most).

    Take Iowa. Imagine the players are Warren, Buttigieg, Biden, Sanders in that order. Well, it'll probably be 40-30-20-10 for delegate share. In New Hampshire, it'll be the same four. And the fourth placed player - unless there's a big reshuffling of the deck - will likely be forced out.

    I think it's likely that come Super Tuesday there will only be three players in the game. Which three? Who knows.
    Not Sanders.
    That's when the Bernibots and the quad fall behind Warren.
    Yep.

    Welcome to four more years of Trump.

    But, I still have a decent bet on Bettigieg. Maybe a hope over head job.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    edited November 2019

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    It goes back further than that. I was born in 1992 and you can argue the same applies.
    Given the veneration of youth views at present we should definitely listen to you, not many younger.

    Ah, I remember the days of the 2010 GE on PB. 23 years young I was, what a time.
  • humbugger said:

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    Good evening all.

    It's unlikely that your relentless negativity about life in Britain has inspired him. He's not had to storm the beaches of Normandy, not lived through mass poverty or unemployment and technology has created opportunities for him that were unimaginable even in 1997. If annual economic growth of 2% is as bad as it gets he's a lucky, lucky man.
    Britain has got nowhere near 2% a year growth in the last decade and there’s no sign of it in sight either.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Buttigieg a touch short at 6.2 right now on Betfair. I've laid back a smidgen, he'll probably shorten further after Iowa anyway.

    Buttigieg is spending a fortune in Iowa but beyond there he is not making much impact
    Laughable.

    He's on 15%, only five points behind Biden in New Hampshire, and up about seven points in the last month.

    If he wins Iowa, the he's odds on to win New Hamphire.

    If he's won Iowa and New Hampshire then... oh yes... he's probably the Democratic nominee.
    Doesn’t the new system make that much less certain? With delegates awarded proportionately, the convention is likely to be determinative. Pete Buttigieg might be good at horse-trading. Or he might not. We don’t know yet.
    I thought that.

    But then I remembered the 15% threshold (albeit at the precinct level). This means we're likely to see four candidates (at most).

    Take Iowa. Imagine the players are Warren, Buttigieg, Biden, Sanders in that order. Well, it'll probably be 40-30-20-10 for delegate share. In New Hampshire, it'll be the same four. And the fourth placed player - unless there's a big reshuffling of the deck - will likely be forced out.

    I think it's likely that come Super Tuesday there will only be three players in the game. Which three? Who knows.
    "Buttigieg is spending a fortune in Iowa"

    and he has the money.
    He recently overtook Biden in terms of number of individual donations. That's astonishing.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:
    What a stupid poll question, even the points system Boris wants would still enable EU citizens to live and work in the UK if they have the skills we need
    We have a points based system of immigration already.......

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/points-based-system-tier-2
    Not for EU nations we don't despite most voters wanting it

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/708162/Theresa-May-migration-Brexit-Nigel-Farage-Ukip
    We have a points based system, it's just that "being from an EU country" is worth infinity points.
  • sarissa said:

    Pulpstar said:

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    Lol You've just made everyone here feel errm... old :D
    I’ve got a tin opener older than him....
    I've got a REM t-shirt older than him. :neutral:
  • There’s a poll out tonight showing 67% of Britons support freedom of movement across the UK and EU. Which makes me again wonder why we bothered with this pointless Brexit lark in the first place.

    Because for many of us it had sweet FA to do with immigration.
    Lets say we leave with Johnson's deal. How is anyone going to keep the majority of the country happy when the reasons for leave are diverse and sometimes different groups of leavers have completely opposite objectives?

    When the leave coalition breaks down, as it surely will, we will be vulnerable to Corbynism, probably a post Corbyn version, but it will be radical and dangerous.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Noo said:

    The Conservative Party is in a bleak state
    https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1194367239727828994

    As a general observation, if the electorate at large really cared about the welfare and rights of minorities then Labour would already have sunk under the anti-Semitism scandal.

    They don't.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    rcs1000 said:

    Stating something with great certainty doesn't make it true.

    You might have written:

    "A black presidential candidate and the Dems really will have handed the election to the Republicans , you’re not going to win the key swing states ."

    or

    "If the Republicans pick a liar, a fornicator, an atheist, a man who's paid his mistresses to have abortions, then the evangelicals simply won't turn up. They'll be handing the election to the Democrats."

    I think you have a point with Obama, with the proviso that the Democrats were very enthusiatic for his election, but would Trump have beaten anyone other than Clinton?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Pulpstar said:

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    Lol You've just made everyone here feel errm... old :D
    I can remember the day I first felt old - 26th August 2012. Working in the early hours of that Sunday morning on a data migration project, one of the team spotted a report on the BBC news site that Neil Armstrong had died.

    The graduate trainee sitting next to me asked: "Who's Neil Armstrong?"
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    Didn't BJO say something a little earlier along the lines of 'Wait for Comres'? *innocent face* :wink:
  • HYUFD said:

    Boris clip on BBC 10 news on floods.

    Dreadful. A series of erms and uhs and uncertain sentences.

    Is he well?

    No he was just thinking before he spoke while announcing the new money for flood relief and prevention
    Yeh. Right.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156

    kle4 said:

    Boris clip on BBC 10 news on floods.

    Dreadful. A series of erms and uhs and uncertain sentences.

    Is he well?

    He's not articulate - has he ever been? A speech or written column is a different thing altogether.
    It’s like having Frankie Howard as Prime Minister. At least Frankie Howerd’s ejaculations were all fully scripted.
    Best not run that comparison past your team member, I don't think it'll land. I suggest getting a crib sheet of modern pop culture references to stay hip, like politicians do.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    humbugger said:

    Good evening all.

    It's unlikely that your relentless negativity about life in Britain has inspired him. He's not had to storm the beaches of Normandy, not lived through mass poverty or unemployment and technology has created opportunities for him that were unimaginable even in 1997. If annual economic growth of 2% is as bad as it gets he's a lucky, lucky man.

    ++

    I genuinely believe that there has never been a better time to be alive. If people think 2019 is a bit shit they should read some history books.
  • blueblue said:

    Didn't BJO say something a little earlier along the lines of 'Wait for Comres'? *innocent face* :wink:
    The fieldwork is before the Farage announcement. With BXP on 9% this looks a solid poll for the Tories.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    The Conservative Party is in a bleak state
    https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1194367239727828994

    As a general observation, if the electorate at large really cared about the welfare and rights of minorities then Labour would already have sunk under the anti-Semitism scandal.

    They don't.
    Oh look. First reply is about Labour. My my, I didn't expect that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156

    There’s a poll out tonight showing 67% of Britons support freedom of movement across the UK and EU. Which makes me again wonder why we bothered with this pointless Brexit lark in the first place.

    Because for many of us it had sweet FA to do with immigration.
    Lets say we leave with Johnson's deal. How is anyone going to keep the majority of the country happy when the reasons for leave are diverse and sometimes different groups of leavers have completely opposite objectives?

    When the leave coalition breaks down, as it surely will, we will be vulnerable to Corbynism, probably a post Corbyn version, but it will be radical and dangerous.
    The country is very divided and uncertain and likely to be for some time - it'll get worse before it gets better.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Noo said:

    The Conservative Party is in a bleak state
    https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1194367239727828994

    I look forward to seeing the wall to wall coverage in the media and the BBC to have this as their main headline for days ! And in the real world the BBC will have got their orders from no 10 to ignore the whole thing .

  • kle4 said:

    Boris clip on BBC 10 news on floods.

    Dreadful. A series of erms and uhs and uncertain sentences.

    Is he well?

    He's not articulate - has he ever been? A speech or written column is a different thing altogether.
    It’s like having Frankie Howard as Prime Minister. At least Frankie Howerd’s ejaculations were all fully scripted.
    Ooo-er, Missus!!
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Boris clip on BBC 10 news on floods.

    Dreadful. A series of erms and uhs and uncertain sentences.

    Is he well?

    He's not articulate - has he ever been? A speech or written column is a different thing altogether.
    It’s like having Frankie Howard as Prime Minister. At least Frankie Howerd’s ejaculations were all fully scripted.
    Best not run that comparison past your team member, I don't think it'll land. I suggest getting a crib sheet of modern pop culture references to stay hip, like politicians do.
    Grrrr. Don’t you think I’m feeling old enough today?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Buttigieg a touch short at 6.2 right now on Betfair. I've laid back a smidgen, he'll probably shorten further after Iowa anyway.

    Buttigieg is spending a fortune in Iowa but beyond there he is not making much impact
    Laughable.

    He's on 15%, only five points behind Biden in New Hampshire, and up about seven points in the last month.

    If he wins Iowa, the he's odds on to win New Hamphire.

    If he's won Iowa and New Hampshire then... oh yes... he's probably the Democratic nominee.
    Buttigieg is 4th in the latest New Hampshire polls behind Warren, Biden and Sanders.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_New_Hampshire_Democratic_primary
    Wikipedia is out of date. See: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/new-hampshire/
    He is still 3rd in the latest NH poll there behind Biden and Warren
    Serious question:

    Would you rather be third and five points behind the leader, or second and fifteen points adrift?
    Second as you are the main alternative
    Well, fortunately this is easy to prove with statistics. We can look at 100 election contests across the US and the UK and see from which you are more likely to win 12 weeks from the election.

    Before I run the numbers, would you like to venture a guess what they'll say?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    glw said:

    humbugger said:

    Good evening all.

    It's unlikely that your relentless negativity about life in Britain has inspired him. He's not had to storm the beaches of Normandy, not lived through mass poverty or unemployment and technology has created opportunities for him that were unimaginable even in 1997. If annual economic growth of 2% is as bad as it gets he's a lucky, lucky man.

    ++

    I genuinely believe that there has never been a better time to be alive. If people think 2019 is a bit shit they should read some history books.
    It's a good time to be alive generally, to be sure, and a lot of us could stand to be a great deal less glum about a great many things, but there are elements in the UK specifically where things are not as good as they were, and relentlessly negative atmospheres do not appear out of the aether, they feed on something real.
  • Noo said:

    The Conservative Party is in a bleak state
    https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1194367239727828994

    Warsi hates us atheists!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156

    felix said:

    Cyclefree said:

    If the Lib Dems go into any sort of informal alliance with Labour I am going to have to take the Meeks option - abstain in person. NFW am I going to vote Lib Dem if there is even the slightest chance they will prop up Corbyn.

    Cyclefree said:

    If the Lib Dems go into any sort of informal alliance with Labour I am going to have to take the Meeks option - abstain in person. NFW am I going to vote Lib Dem if there is even the slightest chance they will prop up Corbyn.

    They had my vote until this crap. Back to Boris for me.
    The LibDems are running candidates. If the PPCin Canterbury doesn't want the gig another will be appointed. They still have until midday Thursday to get 10 signatures on a nomination form and get it submitted.

    There is no stand down for Labour
    Are you not concerned at how many voters will make the same calculation as the PPC in Canterbury, even if the LDs do stand everywhere?
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    humbugger said:

    blueblue said:

    Didn't BJO say something a little earlier along the lines of 'Wait for Comres'? *innocent face* :wink:
    The fieldwork is before the Farage announcement. With BXP on 9% this looks a solid poll for the Tories.
    I know - I was just doing a bit of gentle ribbing of BJO, who was presumably expecting a Survation-like result.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Boris clip on BBC 10 news on floods.

    Dreadful. A series of erms and uhs and uncertain sentences.

    Is he well?

    He's not articulate - has he ever been? A speech or written column is a different thing altogether.
    It’s like having Frankie Howard as Prime Minister. At least Frankie Howerd’s ejaculations were all fully scripted.
    Best not run that comparison past your team member, I don't think it'll land. I suggest getting a crib sheet of modern pop culture references to stay hip, like politicians do.
    Grrrr. Don’t you think I’m feeling old enough today?
    Birthday?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234

    Pulpstar said:

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    Lol You've just made everyone here feel errm... old :D
    I can remember the day I first felt old - 26th August 2012. Working in the early hours of that Sunday morning on a data migration project, one of the team spotted a report on the BBC news site that Neil Armstrong had died.

    The graduate trainee sitting next to me asked: "Who's Neil Armstrong?"
    To be fair, jazz is rather an acquired taste.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Does the Daily Express readership have a lot of people who have vision problems . They always have the headlines so big you could see them from the Hubble telescope .
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    The Conservative Party is in a bleak state
    https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1194367239727828994

    Warsi hates us atheists!
    Click through to the article and you'll see the important story in there is racist Conservative councillors.
    I did deliberately choose to post the Warsi tweet rather than just the Guardian link, though, entirely to annoy you.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    nico67 said:

    Noo said:

    The Conservative Party is in a bleak state
    https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1194367239727828994

    And in the real world the BBC will have got their orders from no 10 to ignore the whole thing .

    Another good parody of conspiracy theorists, you're getting very good at this.

    Being serious, it won't get the attention it probably deserves, but even when these things get attention they deserve they don't appear to have the effect they deserve even when they are as bad as they appear.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited November 2019
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Boris clip on BBC 10 news on floods.

    Dreadful. A series of erms and uhs and uncertain sentences.

    Is he well?

    He's not articulate - has he ever been? A speech or written column is a different thing altogether.
    It’s like having Frankie Howard as Prime Minister. At least Frankie Howerd’s ejaculations were all fully scripted.
    Best not run that comparison past your team member, I don't think it'll land. I suggest getting a crib sheet of modern pop culture references to stay hip, like politicians do.
    Grrrr. Don’t you think I’m feeling old enough today?
    Birthday?
    Specifically that of an office junior, who’s 21 today.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,838

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    This isn't just the UK, though, is it? By western standards, the UK's done ok during his lifetime. It's the west as a whole. He has the misfortune to be born in a period when globalisation is raising billions in the former third world out of poverty at the expense of anaemic growth in most of the west (that part without significant mineral wealth, at least) and the good fortune to be alive in one of the richest countries in the world in a time of unprecedented plenty.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156

    a

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Boris clip on BBC 10 news on floods.

    Dreadful. A series of erms and uhs and uncertain sentences.

    Is he well?

    He's not articulate - has he ever been? A speech or written column is a different thing altogether.
    It’s like having Frankie Howard as Prime Minister. At least Frankie Howerd’s ejaculations were all fully scripted.
    Best not run that comparison past your team member, I don't think it'll land. I suggest getting a crib sheet of modern pop culture references to stay hip, like politicians do.
    Grrrr. Don’t you think I’m feeling old enough today?
    Birthday?
    Specifically that of an office junior, who’s 21 today.
    As long as you're younger than your boss I think you're supposed to be ok. I don't pass that test.
  • There’s a poll out tonight showing 67% of Britons support freedom of movement across the UK and EU.

    Except it didn't mention "Freedom of Movement"......
  • There’s a poll out tonight showing 67% of Britons support freedom of movement across the UK and EU. Which makes me again wonder why we bothered with this pointless Brexit lark in the first place.

    Because for many of us it had sweet FA to do with immigration.
    Lets say we leave with Johnson's deal. How is anyone going to keep the majority of the country happy when the reasons for leave are diverse and sometimes different groups of leavers have completely opposite objectives?

    When the leave coalition breaks down, as it surely will, we will be vulnerable to Corbynism, probably a post Corbyn version, but it will be radical and dangerous.

    Johnson cannot deliver on the promises he has made. At some point relatively soon his lies will catch up with him. When they do things will get very unpleasant. For him, the Tories and, most importantly, for the country. It’s just a matter of when.

  • Cookie said:

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    This isn't just the UK, though, is it? By western standards, the UK's done ok during his lifetime. It's the west as a whole. He has the misfortune to be born in a period when globalisation is raising billions in the former third world out of poverty at the expense of anaemic growth in most of the west (that part without significant mineral wealth, at least) and the good fortune to be alive in one of the richest countries in the world in a time of unprecedented plenty.
    PB’s affluent reactionaries are getting all Four Yorkshiremen. But Britain is now declining relative to Europe and the USA.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    The Conservative Party is in a bleak state
    https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1194367239727828994

    Warsi hates us atheists!
    Click through to the article and you'll see the important story in there is racist Conservative councillors.
    I did deliberately choose to post the Warsi tweet rather than just the Guardian link, though, entirely to annoy you.
    I agree, it should be investigated and those who have had racist outbursts should be purged.

    Party of the accused, and the race offended is irrelevant. Councillor, MP, shadow cabinet or member should all be held to the same standards.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    Lol You've just made everyone here feel errm... old :D
    I can remember the day I first felt old - 26th August 2012. Working in the early hours of that Sunday morning on a data migration project, one of the team spotted a report on the BBC news site that Neil Armstrong had died.

    The graduate trainee sitting next to me asked: "Who's Neil Armstrong?"
    To be fair, jazz is rather an acquired taste.
    Lol - if there's a jazz Neil Armstrong he's not listed in Wikipedia.

    At least for the Neil Armstrong we were able to point the poorly educated graduate to Wiki. :smile:
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    nico67 said:

    Does the Daily Express readership have a lot of people who have vision problems . They always have the headlines so big you could see them from the Hubble telescope .

    It's so you can see the headline from across the forecourt even in an Arctic blizzard.
    Strangely the Arctic blizzards never seem to arrive, but one day they'll get a forecast right.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    humbugger said:

    Good evening all.

    It's unlikely that your relentless negativity about life in Britain has inspired him. He's not had to storm the beaches of Normandy, not lived through mass poverty or unemployment and technology has created opportunities for him that were unimaginable even in 1997. If annual economic growth of 2% is as bad as it gets he's a lucky, lucky man.

    ++

    I genuinely believe that there has never been a better time to be alive. If people think 2019 is a bit shit they should read some history books.
    It's a good time to be alive generally, to be sure, and a lot of us could stand to be a great deal less glum about a great many things, but there are elements in the UK specifically where things are not as good as they were, and relentlessly negative atmospheres do not appear out of the aether, they feed on something real.
    Sure, but I'd take the aggregated negatives of today over any other point in the past.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268

    Cookie said:

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    This isn't just the UK, though, is it? By western standards, the UK's done ok during his lifetime. It's the west as a whole. He has the misfortune to be born in a period when globalisation is raising billions in the former third world out of poverty at the expense of anaemic growth in most of the west (that part without significant mineral wealth, at least) and the good fortune to be alive in one of the richest countries in the world in a time of unprecedented plenty.
    PB’s affluent reactionaries are getting all Four Yorkshiremen. But Britain is now declining relative to Europe and the USA.
    Is this true in median wage terms? I have read that wages in the US have not increased meaningfully in 40 years. Explains Trump to some extent.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    When can we expect to see the main party manifestos - anyone know?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    edited November 2019
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    humbugger said:

    Good evening all.

    It's unlikely that your relentless negativity about life in Britain has inspired him. He's not had to storm the beaches of Normandy, not lived through mass poverty or unemployment and technology has created opportunities for him that were unimaginable even in 1997. If annual economic growth of 2% is as bad as it gets he's a lucky, lucky man.

    ++

    I genuinely believe that there has never been a better time to be alive. If people think 2019 is a bit shit they should read some history books.
    It's a good time to be alive generally, to be sure, and a lot of us could stand to be a great deal less glum about a great many things, but there are elements in the UK specifically where things are not as good as they were, and relentlessly negative atmospheres do not appear out of the aether, they feed on something real.
    Sure, but I'd take the aggregated negatives of today over any other point in the past.
    Yes, but the comparison people will naturally make is not with 1000 years ago, or 100, or 50, or today but in Mogadishu, it will be with how they recall it feeling here in the last 5-10 years, and while some things are better, the perception has been of low growth, belt tightening (even though not really as much as people think) and so on, with some actual negatives to give such an impression legs.

    So it is the aggregated negatives of today vs aggregated positives of yesterday.
  • Rory on Newsnight
  • There’s a poll out tonight showing 67% of Britons support freedom of movement across the UK and EU. Which makes me again wonder why we bothered with this pointless Brexit lark in the first place.

    One of the few enjoyable aspects of our shrivelled post-Brexit world will be watching as Mail, Express and Telegraph readers discovering the end of freedom of movement is a two way street.

  • Pulpstar said:

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    Lol You've just made everyone here feel errm... old :D
    I saw no reason why I should suffer alone.

    EDIT I’m also a year out. He’d have been born in 1998. Scary.
    Twenty-five years ago last month I embarked on my journeys around London's Tube and rail network as a student.

    Back then I only ventured out as far as the Zone 4 boundary because that was my season ticket's validity :lol:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    It goes back further than that. I was born in 1992 and you can argue the same applies.

    Pulpstar said:

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    Lol You've just made everyone here feel errm... old :D
    I can remember the day I first felt old - 26th August 2012. Working in the early hours of that Sunday morning on a data migration project, one of the team spotted a report on the BBC news site that Neil Armstrong had died.

    The graduate trainee sitting next to me asked: "Who's Neil Armstrong?"
    I realised that I was old when the Prime Minister was younger than me. Thanks DC!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    Cookie said:

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    This isn't just the UK, though, is it? By western standards, the UK's done ok during his lifetime. It's the west as a whole. He has the misfortune to be born in a period when globalisation is raising billions in the former third world out of poverty at the expense of anaemic growth in most of the west (that part without significant mineral wealth, at least) and the good fortune to be alive in one of the richest countries in the world in a time of unprecedented plenty.
    PB’s affluent reactionaries are getting all Four Yorkshiremen. But Britain is now declining relative to Europe and the USA.
    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1194187350420721664?s=20
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    kle4 said:

    a

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Boris clip on BBC 10 news on floods.

    Dreadful. A series of erms and uhs and uncertain sentences.

    Is he well?

    He's not articulate - has he ever been? A speech or written column is a different thing altogether.
    It’s like having Frankie Howard as Prime Minister. At least Frankie Howerd’s ejaculations were all fully scripted.
    Best not run that comparison past your team member, I don't think it'll land. I suggest getting a crib sheet of modern pop culture references to stay hip, like politicians do.
    Grrrr. Don’t you think I’m feeling old enough today?
    Birthday?
    Specifically that of an office junior, who’s 21 today.
    As long as you're younger than your boss I think you're supposed to be ok. I don't pass that test.
    What about when your boss wouldn't pass the 'half your age plus nine' test?
  • There’s a poll out tonight showing 67% of Britons support freedom of movement across the UK and EU. Which makes me again wonder why we bothered with this pointless Brexit lark in the first place.

    Because for many of us it had sweet FA to do with immigration.
    Lets say we leave with Johnson's deal. How is anyone going to keep the majority of the country happy when the reasons for leave are diverse and sometimes different groups of leavers have completely opposite objectives?

    When the leave coalition breaks down, as it surely will, we will be vulnerable to Corbynism, probably a post Corbyn version, but it will be radical and dangerous.

    Johnson cannot deliver on the promises he has made. At some point relatively soon his lies will catch up with him. When they do things will get very unpleasant. For him, the Tories and, most importantly, for the country. It’s just a matter of when.

    Indeed. Those who are cheering on a Tory majority to stop Corbyn are making a long term error imo. The best way to stop Corbynism is for him to be nominally in charge of a shit situation now, but constrained by the SNP and LD.

    A Tory majority has a far greater chance of leading to eventual real Corbynism, particularly as the age and home ownership demographics will be further against the Tories in 5 years time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    blueblue said:

    humbugger said:

    blueblue said:

    Didn't BJO say something a little earlier along the lines of 'Wait for Comres'? *innocent face* :wink:
    The fieldwork is before the Farage announcement. With BXP on 9% this looks a solid poll for the Tories.
    I know - I was just doing a bit of gentle ribbing of BJO, who was presumably expecting a Survation-like result.
    Even Survation had a 6% Tory lead
  • Gabs2 said:

    Cookie said:

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    This isn't just the UK, though, is it? By western standards, the UK's done ok during his lifetime. It's the west as a whole. He has the misfortune to be born in a period when globalisation is raising billions in the former third world out of poverty at the expense of anaemic growth in most of the west (that part without significant mineral wealth, at least) and the good fortune to be alive in one of the richest countries in the world in a time of unprecedented plenty.
    PB’s affluent reactionaries are getting all Four Yorkshiremen. But Britain is now declining relative to Europe and the USA.
    Is this true in median wage terms? I have read that wages in the US have not increased meaningfully in 40 years. Explains Trump to some extent.
    https://twitter.com/chrisgiles_/status/1193832832206098432?s=21
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited November 2019
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    humbugger said:

    Good evening all.

    It's unlikely that your relentless negativity about life in Britain has inspired him. He's not had to storm the beaches of Normandy, not lived through mass poverty or unemployment and technology has created opportunities for him that were unimaginable even in 1997. If annual economic growth of 2% is as bad as it gets he's a lucky, lucky man.

    ++

    I genuinely believe that there has never been a better time to be alive. If people think 2019 is a bit shit they should read some history books.
    It's a good time to be alive generally, to be sure, and a lot of us could stand to be a great deal less glum about a great many things, but there are elements in the UK specifically where things are not as good as they were, and relentlessly negative atmospheres do not appear out of the aether, they feed on something real.
    Sure, but I'd take the aggregated negatives of today over any other point in the past.
    Watch this. To be honest, Remain should run this as Public Information Film. The main info is about 5 mins in


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCm9Ng0bbEQ
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Gauke standing as independent.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156

    kle4 said:

    a

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Boris clip on BBC 10 news on floods.

    Dreadful. A series of erms and uhs and uncertain sentences.

    Is he well?

    He's not articulate - has he ever been? A speech or written column is a different thing altogether.
    It’s like having Frankie Howard as Prime Minister. At least Frankie Howerd’s ejaculations were all fully scripted.
    Best not run that comparison past your team member, I don't think it'll land. I suggest getting a crib sheet of modern pop culture references to stay hip, like politicians do.
    Grrrr. Don’t you think I’m feeling old enough today?
    Birthday?
    Specifically that of an office junior, who’s 21 today.
    As long as you're younger than your boss I think you're supposed to be ok. I don't pass that test.
    What about when your boss wouldn't pass the 'half your age plus nine' test?
    Very old, or someone is an overachieving little queue jumper!
  • HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    One of my junior team members turned 21 today. I reflected on his historical experience. He was born in 1997. He would have no memory of September 11. He would have been in his last year of primary school when the credit crunch hit.

    He would have no memory of any time of anything other than at best anaemic economic growth. The idea of a long term growth rate of 2% would sound ridiculous. His Britain has been one of permanent stagnation.

    He will have the opportunity to vote in a second general election next month. I can’t imagine he’s seen much to inspire him.

    This isn't just the UK, though, is it? By western standards, the UK's done ok during his lifetime. It's the west as a whole. He has the misfortune to be born in a period when globalisation is raising billions in the former third world out of poverty at the expense of anaemic growth in most of the west (that part without significant mineral wealth, at least) and the good fortune to be alive in one of the richest countries in the world in a time of unprecedented plenty.
    PB’s affluent reactionaries are getting all Four Yorkshiremen. But Britain is now declining relative to Europe and the USA.
    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1194187350420721664?s=20
    As if you should believe anything written by Dan Hannan:

    https://twitter.com/chrisgiles_/status/1193832832206098432?s=21
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    nico67 said:

    Noo said:

    The Conservative Party is in a bleak state
    https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1194367239727828994

    I look forward to seeing the wall to wall coverage in the media and the BBC to have this as their main headline for days ! And in the real world the BBC will have got their orders from no 10 to ignore the whole thing .

    the bbc get their orders from the sinister jewish cabal that run the world - did you not get the memo?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    kle4 said:

    Yes, but the comparison people will naturally make is not with 1000 years ago, or 100, or 50, or today but in Mogadishu, it will be with how they recall it feeling here in the last 5-10 years, and while some things are better, the perception has been of low growth, belt tightening (even though not really as much as people think) and so on, with some actual negatives to give such an impression legs.

    So it is the aggregated negatives of today vs aggregated positives of yesterday.

    Sure but that's the mistake we all make of looking at the here and now, rather than considering things over a decent period of time. We see the fluctuations of life, but not the long term trends, which are almost all to the good.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    philiph said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    The Conservative Party is in a bleak state
    https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1194367239727828994

    Warsi hates us atheists!
    Click through to the article and you'll see the important story in there is racist Conservative councillors.
    I did deliberately choose to post the Warsi tweet rather than just the Guardian link, though, entirely to annoy you.
    I agree, it should be investigated and those who have had racist outbursts should be purged.

    Party of the accused, and the race offended is irrelevant. Councillor, MP, shadow cabinet or member should all be held to the same standards.
    If specific parties have specific problems, I'd recommend specific measures be taken.
    What fresh hell is that? Who wants to sit and face sideways like that? Monsters.
  • Noo said:

    Noo said:

    The Conservative Party is in a bleak state
    https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1194367239727828994

    Warsi hates us atheists!
    Click through to the article and you'll see the important story in there is racist Conservative councillors.
    I did deliberately choose to post the Warsi tweet rather than just the Guardian link, though, entirely to annoy you.
    And I post this just to annoy you:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17021831
    "Britain is under threat from a rising tide of "militant secularisation", a cabinet minister [ie. Warsi] has warned."
  • There’s a poll out tonight showing 67% of Britons support freedom of movement across the UK and EU. Which makes me again wonder why we bothered with this pointless Brexit lark in the first place.

    Because for many of us Leave voters it has nothing to do with immigration...? You lot like to suggest most of us voted on immigration grounds and you won’t hear anything else.
    So why?
  • kle4 said:

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    humbugger said:

    Good evening all.

    It's unlikely that your relentless negativity about life in Britain has inspired him. He's not had to storm the beaches of Normandy, not lived through mass poverty or unemployment and technology has created opportunities for him that were unimaginable even in 1997. If annual economic growth of 2% is as bad as it gets he's a lucky, lucky man.

    ++

    I genuinely believe that there has never been a better time to be alive. If people think 2019 is a bit shit they should read some history books.
    It's a good time to be alive generally, to be sure, and a lot of us could stand to be a great deal less glum about a great many things, but there are elements in the UK specifically where things are not as good as they were, and relentlessly negative atmospheres do not appear out of the aether, they feed on something real.
    Sure, but I'd take the aggregated negatives of today over any other point in the past.
    Yes, but the comparison people will naturally make is not with 1000 years ago, or 100, or 50, or today but in Mogadishu, it will be with how they recall it feeling here in the last 5-10 years, and while some things are better, the perception has been of low growth, belt tightening (even though not really as much as people think) and so on, with some actual negatives to give such an impression legs.

    So it is the aggregated negatives of today vs aggregated positives of yesterday.
    You are right that is the instinctive human reaction and perfectly natural. But it is wrong, both in fairness to the 99% of humans who have lived worse lives than us and equally importantly to ourselves. We would be in a better place, more at ease with the world and people around us, if we understood how lucky we are.
  • Had some feedback from friends on tonight’s ‘Boris, the shuffle round the office’. Consensus: tacky as hell, but Boris’s oven chips to serve the same purpose as Trump’s Wendy burgers.
This discussion has been closed.