Didn’t you only discover your Jewish heritage a year or so ago? Apologies if I am mistaken.
Yes, I did - was a nice surprise. I don't think it would have changed anything if I'd known it for years, though - my mother was very secular (which is I suppose why she never mentioned it).
Beyond the immorality, the institutional anti-Semitism that Jeremy Corbyn and the far left have brought to the Labour party means that a man incapable of telling the truth will be running the UK for the next few years. Johnson knows that he can lie, lie and lie again because his opponent is unelectable. It is an absolute disaster for the country. https://twitter.com/ManufacturingNI/status/1192564837345353728
BJ's trips to North Britain seem to consist of photo ops with selected manufacturers, some air kissing with satraps & activists and staying the fuck away from ordinary punters. Remind you of anyone? At least Tessy knocked on a couple of doors in Deeside and didn't get pished.
How many ordinary punters does Corbyn meet excluding bussed in Labour activists and selected factory school and hospital visits? Most party leaders election tours are the same
But, but, but I thought BJ was an ace campaigner who can REALLY connect with peepul?!
On Islamophobia, it is worth noting that the Conservatives have selected the former chairman of Muslims for Britain to replace Spelman in Meriden. They have also selected a man of Somalian heritage to try and retake Cardiff North.
Corybn is icky and historically Jews have a right to be paranoid but this is ridiculous. Their safety isn't threatened by a Labour government, they don't need to flee to Israel.
No it is not ridiculous. The hate enabled by vile anti-Semitism embedded in the far left groups Corbyn mixes with is a real threat.
Am I right in thinking that most Jewish folk on PB are a lot more ambivalent about Jezza and Labour's alleged antisemitism than gentile PB Tories? Probably not a representative cross section, but then neither are PB Tories.
If it makes it 5 years without a successful indy vote it's in good shape. Despite the promises not to hold one I dont see how we avoid that though - when so many support going indy the issue wont just go away.
Whether or not they are justified, the fears of a group of our fellow citizens are real.
And you choose to joke about it.
There isn't really a joke there, claiming to be worried about minority concerns and then voting Conservative is.
What don’t you get?
The Jewish community is terrified and nearly half are considering leaving the country.
Of course there are some racists in the Tory party - as in every party - but they have a Muslim heritage Chancellor (I believe he’s agnostic?)
The Muslim community may not vote Tory, but they are not afraid of them.
How very kind of you to appoint yourself as spokesperson for the entire Muslim community in the UK. I'm sure they'll be very happy to have you in the role.
What?
I’m not appointing myself spokesman for anyone. I’ve not seen data suggesting Muslims are afraid of a Tory government
But fuck you. Our Jewish fellow citizens are being attacked and you want to make cute debating points.
I recognise your name so I guess you’ve been around for awhile. You’ll know that I don’t get riled up by much. This makes me furious.
Oh, temper temper old chap. Synthetic outrage is not very becoming.
You also need to lose the insults mate, I have not once insulted you and you are seeking to speak on behalf of the Islamic community. You shouldn't.
Alistair very succinctly nails your double standards further upthread. It's delicious.
I can do synthetic outrage. Thus isn’t it. This is fury.
(I replied to Alastair’s inaccurate allegations)
Your contortions are the mirror image of @TheJezziah's. And about as convincing.
Nope. I’m personally fine with immigration (although I do worry about capacity constraints on public infrastructure but that can be fixed through government action).
I voted leave because I didn’t like the structure and direction of travel of the EU and because I felt the interests of many of my fellow country men and women were being ignored.
LOL I'll go with "has a professional interest in the matter, she has researched it diligently" over your, and @tyson's, and @TheJezziah's "no really he's not".
You must go with whatever you think best, of course, but I've known him on and off for 50 years, without his ever expressing the slightest prejudice against anyone. He just doesn't do prejudice. (He's even perfectly civil about Tories ) I wouldn't call him a tremendously warm man, but he's civilised and restrained in talking about anyone.
Jo Swinson should ditch stop Brexit and change her slogan to The Sane Choice!
Rings a bit 'deplorables' in suggesting anyone backing the other options is mad, so counter productive.
Tens of millions will back the parties of Corbyn and Boris, many because of them not in spite of them. Telling them they are idiots, enablers of racism or idiot enablers of racism wont work even if someone thinks it is true. The tribal vote is just that strong.
Bear in mind that just this week we have seen three ex-Labour MPs suggesting that Labour supporters should vote for Johnson at GE2019 - Austin, Woodcock and Stuart. Tribal loyalties are weaker than they ever have been in these extraordinary times.
Doubt it will get anywhere, but may be a laying opportunity for those who bet.
He's apparently looking to file for the Alabama primary (deadline Friday). Seems like keeping options rather than anything else
Michael Bloomberg, the billionaire former mayor of New York City, is laying the groundwork to enter the Democratic presidential race months before voters in Iowa and New Hampshire kick off the fight to choose the 2020 nominee.
Charles ... I think you mean this is a BACKING opportunity, i.e betting on something taking place, rather than a LAYING opportunity which means precisely the opposite ... Oops!
I meant that Bloomberg will not be President but some people might get excited and thereby create an opportunity to bet against the hype
Apologies if I got the terminology wrong (I don’t bet)
It’s an ideal opportunity to lay Bloomberg.
He’s down to 14s this morning (shorter even than Hillary).
A section of our community is scared and you come out with fucking polls.
Now you know how w/c, BME, LGBTQ+ and people with disabilities feel whenever there is a tory government.
The word 'disgust' doesn't even begin the capture the way the rest of us feel about tories.
No matter who is leading it or what their actions have been? Thats as dumb as someone feeling intense visceral hatred of labour regardless of who the leader is or what their actions have been.
Not all Tory governments and oppositions are the same, nor are all labour governments and oppositions the same, they dont do the same things or act the same way. Who leads them and what they do matters, it's why boris and Corbyn and their base supporters matter .
And people are so proud, its so central to their identity, to say how they always viscerally hate party x, regardless of the fact parties act very differently over time.
Its pathetic and childish to act like parties are always offering the same negatives or positives, yet the pride people have in doing so, to display their morality, makes me more depressed than davidl is optimistic this morning. Its declaring pride in ignorantly judging a changing situation as if its static.
I know what your reaction will be to this, some attention grabbing swear I assume, but I just don't understand the logic in pretending our parties have such consistent ideology that 'any' government of party x, labour or tory, is not only unfavourable but to be feared or would be disgusting. It goes against the other critique we usually have if them, that that they dont stick to principles.
The reality is either can be fine and either can be terrible . Its reasonable to think one is more likely to be terrible, but any? Grow up.
It’s very visceral and personal for people like @Dura_Ace
I can only imagine he had a very bad sexual experience with a Tory in his formative teenage years (or possibly in the navy) who betrayed him, so it’s fucked him up for life.
According to this morning’s FT, Javid is effectively ruling out those (unfunded) tax cuts Boris promised, “to the anger of Number 10 advisers who wanted a platform of higher spending and lower taxes.”
No one in this election is advocating financial prudence. We have to choose between different versions of Brewsters millions.
Well sort of.
As much as I loathe the Tories, I do personally favour the relaxation of the Osborne/Hammond fiscal rules to allow capital investment.
This seems to be precisely what Javid is now proposing.
Good on him for quashing Boris’s tax cuts - they make no economic sense.
Whether or not they are justified, the fears of a group of our fellow citizens are real.
And you choose to joke about it.
There isn't really a joke there, claiming to be worried about minority concerns and then voting Conservative is.
What don’t you get?
The Jewish community is terrified and nearly half are considering leaving the country.
Of course there are some racists in the Tory party - as in every party - but they have a Muslim heritage Chancellor (I believe he’s agnostic?)
The Muslim community may not vote Tory, but they are not afraid of them.
How very kind of you to appoint yourself as spokesperson for the entire Muslim community in the UK. I'm sure they'll be very happy to have you in the role.
What?
I’m not appointing myself spokesman for anyone. I’ve not seen data suggesting Muslims are afraid of a Tory government
But fuck you. Our Jewish fellow citizens are being attacked and you want to make cute debating points.
I recognise your name so I guess you’ve been around for awhile. You’ll know that I don’t get riled up by much. This makes me furious.
Oh, temper temper old chap. Synthetic outrage is not very becoming.
You also need to lose the insults mate, I have not once insulted you and you are seeking to speak on behalf of the Islamic community. You shouldn't.
Alistair very succinctly nails your double standards further upthread. It's delicious.
I can do synthetic outrage. Thus isn’t it. This is fury.
(I replied to Alastair’s inaccurate allegations)
Your contortions are the mirror image of @TheJezziah's. And about as convincing.
Nope. I’m personally fine with immigration (although I do worry about capacity constraints on public infrastructure but that can be fixed through government action).
I voted leave because I didn’t like the structure and direction of travel of the EU and because I felt the interests of many of my fellow country men and women were being ignored.
And you enthusiastically backed campaigns that sought to scare voters into believing that millions of muslims were poised to descend on the UK.
That is a very fair point, but one with a deep flaw: given the make-up of both the Parliamentary party and the party in the country post-12th December, the only realistic replacement for Johnson is somoene from the hard right.
Bollocks. For all the attempts to paint him otherwise, Boris is a One Nation Conservative, who governed London as such whilst Mayor. The new intake will be lagely One Nation Conservatives. Neither ERG-compliant nor Europhile headbangers. Mirroring the bulk of the current Parliamentary party and the membership.
Are you sure about that, Mr Mark? I thought all the decent, rational Conservatives had given up on this pack of incompetents, tax-dodgers, spivs and charlatans.
You are about to find out how wrong that is....
The spivs and charlatans have always been the preserve of the Libdem "Winning here" bar charts.
Oh, and is Lord Rennard still operating for you, in the light or more likely in the shadows, this campaign? If so, it marks a high-point of Jo Swinson's hypocrisy.....
A section of our community is scared and you come out with fucking polls.
Now you know how w/c, BME, LGBTQ+ and people with disabilities feel whenever there is a tory government.
The word 'disgust' doesn't even begin the capture the way the rest of us feel about tories.
No matter who is leading it or what their actions have been? Thats as dumb as someone feeling intense visceral hatred of labour regardless of who the leader is or what their actions have been.
Not all Tory governments and oppositions are the same, nor are all labour governments and oppositions the same, they dont do the same things or act the same way. Who leads them and what they do matters, it's why boris and Corbyn and their base supporters matter .
And people are so proud, its so central to their identity, to say how they always viscerally hate party x, regardless of the fact parties act very differently over time.
Its pathetic and childish to act like parties are always offering the same negatives or positives, yet the pride people have in doing so, to display their morality, makes me more depressed than davidl is optimistic this morning. Its declaring pride in ignorantly judging a changing situation as if its static.
I know what your reaction will be to this, some attention grabbing swear I assume, but I just don't understand the logic in pretending our parties have such consistent ideology that 'any' government of party x, labour or tory, is not only unfavourable but to be feared or would be disgusting. It goes against the other critique we usually have if them, that that they dont stick to principles.
The reality is either can be fine and either can be terrible . Its reasonable to think one is more likely to be terrible, but any? Grow up.
It’s very visceral and personal for people like @Dura_Ace
I can only imagine he had a very bad sexual experience with a Tory in his formative teenage years (or possibly in the navy) who betrayed him, so it’s fucked him up for life.
Nah - he's just a Leeds United fan. Hate is their DNA.
A section of our community is scared and you come out with fucking polls.
Now you know how w/c, BME, LGBTQ+ and people with disabilities feel whenever there is a tory government.
The word 'disgust' doesn't even begin the capture the way the rest of us feel about tories.
What a load of crap.
More Tory BME and LGBT and disabled Tory MPs than ever before, more BME and disabled people in work than in 2010, gay marriage brought in under Cameron
Only on the back of Labour and lib dem votes. Tories were split virtually 50.50 on it. Nasty little bigots that they are.
I suppose Catholics and evangelical Christians and Muslims and Hindus and Orthodox Jews are all nasty little bigots too as they believe marriage should only be between one man and one woman for life, like those 50% of Tory MPs? Opposing gay marriage does not make you a bigot as such
Yeah it does.
It comes down to words.
The State should treat all couples (of whatever gender) who chose to form a permanent relationship equally. Doesn’t matter whether that is called partnership , marriage, or square-dancing.
Churches and other religions should be permitted to bless or sanctify whichever of these relationships they choose.
On Islamophobia, it is worth noting that the Conservatives have selected the former chairman of Muslims for Britain to replace Spelman in Meriden. They have also selected a man of Somalian heritage to try and retake Cardiff North.
And there will, I presume, be Jewish labour mps . Not saying either gets a pass or that they must be equivalent, but who gets selected doesnt speak definitively.
On Islamophobia, it is worth noting that the Conservatives have selected the former chairman of Muslims for Britain to replace Spelman in Meriden. They have also selected a man of Somalian heritage to try and retake Cardiff North.
A section of our community is scared and you come out with fucking polls.
Now you know how w/c, BME, LGBTQ+ and people with disabilities feel whenever there is a tory government.
The word 'disgust' doesn't even begin the capture the way the rest of us feel about tories.
No matter who is leading it or what their actions have been? Thats as dumb as someone feeling intense visceral hatred of labour regardless of who the leader is or what their actions have been.
Not all Tory governments and oppositions are the same, nor are all labour governments and oppositions the same, they dont do the same things or act the same way. Who leads them and what they do matters, it's why boris and Corbyn and their base supporters matter .
And people are so proud, its so central to their identity, to say how they always viscerally hate party x, regardless of the fact parties act very differently over time.
Its pathetic and childish to act like parties are always offering the same negatives or positives, yet the pride people have in doing so, to display their morality, makes me more depressed than davidl is optimistic this morning. Its declaring pride in ignorantly judging a changing situation as if its static.
I know what your reaction will be to this, some attention grabbing swear I assume, but I just don't understand the logic in pretending our parties have such consistent ideology that 'any' government of party x, labour or tory, is not only unfavourable but to be feared or would be disgusting. It goes against the other critique we usually have if them, that that they dont stick to principles.
The reality is either can be fine and either can be terrible . Its reasonable to think one is more likely to be terrible, but any? Grow up.
It’s very visceral and personal for people like @Dura_Ace
I can only imagine he had a very bad sexual experience with a Tory in his formative teenage years (or possibly in the navy) who betrayed him, so it’s fucked him up for life.
I thought that was par for the course in the Navy.
LOL I'll go with "has a professional interest in the matter, she has researched it diligently" over your, and @tyson's, and @TheJezziah's "no really he's not".
You must go with whatever you think best, of course, but I've known him on and off for 50 years, without his ever expressing the slightest prejudice against anyone. He just doesn't do prejudice. (He's even perfectly civil about Tories ) I wouldn't call him a tremendously warm man, but he's civilised and restrained in talking about anyone.
Oh Nick. How sweet. And his associations? Just because he's a bloody nice bloke, right?
It is boring to watch the apologists do their apologising.
Jeremy is a doddery hard-left dimwit, with a lifetime of fraternising with anti-US, anti-UK, and anti-Israeli activists and often terrorists. End of.
Boris is pathologically selfish, abortion procuring liar, who came to power by appealing to xenophobic instinct and undermining the leader who tried to clean up the shit he left on the carpet. Also end of.
I have limited respect for anyone actively campaigning for either.
A section of our community is scared and you come out with fucking polls.
Now you know how w/c, BME, LGBTQ+ and people with disabilities feel whenever there is a tory government.
The word 'disgust' doesn't even begin the capture the way the rest of us feel about tories.
No matter who is leading it or what their actions have been? Thats as dumb as someone feeling intense visceral hatred of labour regardless of who the leader is or what their actions have been.
Not all Tory governments and oppositions are the same, nor are all labour governments and oppositions the same, they dont do the same things or act the same way. Who leads them and what they do matters, it's why boris and Corbyn and their base supporters matter .
And people are so proud, its so central to their identity, to say how they always viscerally hate party x, regardless of the fact parties act very differently over time.
Its pathetic and childish to act like parties are always offering the same negatives or positives, yet the pride people have in doing so, to display their morality, makes me more depressed than davidl is optimistic this morning. Its declaring pride in ignorantly judging a changing situation as if its static.
I know what your reaction will be to this, some attention grabbing swear I assume, but I just don't understand the logic in pretending our parties have such consistent ideology that 'any' government of party x, labour or tory, is not only unfavourable but to be feared or would be disgusting. It goes against the other critique we usually have if them, that that they dont stick to principles.
The reality is either can be fine and either can be terrible . Its reasonable to think one is more likely to be terrible, but any? Grow up.
It’s very visceral and personal for people like @Dura_Ace
I can only imagine he had a very bad sexual experience with a Tory in his formative teenage years (or possibly in the navy) who betrayed him, so it’s fucked him up for life.
Nah - he's just a Leeds United fan. Hate is their DNA.
Whether or not they are justified, the fears of a group of our fellow citizens are real.
And you choose to joke about it.
There isn't really a joke there, claiming to be worried about minority concerns and then voting Conservative is.
What don’t you get?
The Jewish community is terrified and nearly half are considering leaving the country.
Of course there are some racists in the Tory party - as in every party - but they have a Muslim heritage Chancellor (I believe he’s agnostic?)
The Muslim community may not vote Tory, but they are not afraid of them.
How very kind of you to appoint yourself as spokesperson for the entire Muslim community in the UK. I'm sure they'll be very happy to have you in the role.
What?
I’m not appointing myself spokesman for anyone. I’ve not seen data suggesting Muslims are afraid of a Tory government
But fuck you. Our Jewish fellow citizens are being attacked and you want to make cute debating points.
I recognise your name so I guess you’ve been around for awhile. You’ll know that I don’t get riled up by much. This makes me furious.
Oh, temper temper old chap. Synthetic outrage is not very becoming.
You also need to lose the insults mate, I have not once insulted you and you are seeking to speak on behalf of the Islamic community. You shouldn't.
Alistair very succinctly nails your double standards further upthread. It's delicious.
I can do synthetic outrage. Thus isn’t it. This is fury.
(I replied to Alastair’s inaccurate allegations)
Your contortions are the mirror image of @TheJezziah's. And about as convincing.
Nope. I’m personally fine with immigration (although I do worry about capacity constraints on public infrastructure but that can be fixed through government action).
I voted leave because I didn’t like the structure and direction of travel of the EU and because I felt the interests of many of my fellow country men and women were being ignored.
And you enthusiastically backed campaigns that sought to scare voters into believing that millions of muslims were poised to descend on the UK.
I voted for Brexit but that’s about it. Hosted a party for Business for Britain as well.
Don’t think that really counts as “enthusiastically back[ing]”
A section of our community is scared and you come out with fucking polls.
Now you know how w/c, BME, LGBTQ+ and people with disabilities feel whenever there is a tory government.
The word 'disgust' doesn't even begin the capture the way the rest of us feel about tories.
No matter who is leading it or what their actions have been? Thats as dumb as someone feeling intense visceral hatred of labour regardless of who the leader is or what their actions have been.
Not all Tory governments and oppositions are the same, nor are all labour governments and oppositions the same, they dont do the same things or act the same way. Who leads them and what they do matters, it's why boris and Corbyn and their base supporters matter .
And people are so proud, its so central to their identity, to say how they always viscerally hate party x, regardless of the fact parties act very differently over time.
Its pathetic and childish to act like parties are always offering the same negatives or positives, yet the pride people have in doing so, to display their morality, makes me more depressed than davidl is optimistic this morning. Its declaring pride in ignorantly judging a changing situation as if its static.
I know what your reaction will be to this, some attention grabbing swear I assume, but I just don't understand the logic in pretending our parties have such consistent ideology that 'any' government of party x, labour or tory, is not only unfavourable but to be feared or would be disgusting. It goes against the other critique we usually have if them, that that they dont stick to principles.
The reality is either can be fine and either can be terrible . Its reasonable to think one is more likely to be terrible, but any? Grow up.
It’s very visceral and personal for people like @Dura_Ace
I can only imagine he had a very bad sexual experience with a Tory in his formative teenage years (or possibly in the navy) who betrayed him, so it’s fucked him up for life.
My point did apply to anyone who viscerally hates (as opposed to dislikes) labour irrespective of changing leadership and policy too in fairness.
But I stand by it. Being instinctively for or against the general principles of one party over another makes sense, spitting with hatred even if party x now is totally different to how it was previously, and acting the same toward them, is childish. Labour under Blair and Attlee were not the same, nor tories under Major and Churchill.
Could we try asking all the posters who have posted on here this morning to describe the anti semitic act by Jeremy Corbyn that has offended them on behalf of their Jewish bretheren the most? (Preferably not connected with Israel).
Whether or not they are justified, the fears of a group of our fellow citizens are real.
And you choose to joke about it.
There isn't really a joke there, claiming to be worried about minority concerns and then voting Conservative is.
What don’t you get?
The Jewish community is terrified and nearly half are considering leaving the country.
Of course there are some racists in the Tory party - as in every party - but they have a Muslim heritage Chancellor (I believe he’s agnostic?)
The Muslim community may not vote Tory, but they are not afraid of them.
How very kind of you to appoint yourself as spokesperson for the entire Muslim community in the UK. I'm sure they'll be very happy to have you in the role.
What?
I’m not appointing myself spokesman for anyone. I’ve not seen data suggesting Muslims are afraid of a Tory government
But fuck you. Our Jewish fellow citizens are being attacked and you want to make cute debating points.
I recognise your name so I guess you’ve been around for awhile. You’ll know that I don’t get riled up by much. This makes me furious.
Oh, temper temper old chap. Synthetic outrage is not very becoming.
You also need to lose the insults mate, I have not once insulted you and you are seeking to speak on behalf of the Islamic community. You shouldn't.
Alistair very succinctly nails your double standards further upthread. It's delicious.
I can do synthetic outrage. Thus isn’t it. This is fury.
(I replied to Alastair’s inaccurate allegations)
Your contortions are the mirror image of @TheJezziah's. And about as convincing.
Nope. I’m personally fine with immigration (although I do worry about capacity constraints on public infrastructure but that can be fixed through government action).
I voted leave because I didn’t like the structure and direction of travel of the EU and because I felt the interests of many of my fellow country men and women were being ignored.
And you enthusiastically backed campaigns that sought to scare voters into believing that millions of muslims were poised to descend on the UK.
I voted for Brexit but that’s about it. Hosted a party for Business for Britain as well.
Don’t think that really counts as “enthusiastically back[ing]”
On Islamophobia, it is worth noting that the Conservatives have selected the former chairman of Muslims for Britain to replace Spelman in Meriden. They have also selected a man of Somalian heritage to try and retake Cardiff North.
I am less interested at this moment in the background of the successful candidates and more interested in the fact I believe that news means that Nick Timothy has failed in his bid to become PPC for Meriden.
It is boring to watch the apologists do their apologising.
Jeremy is a doddery hard-left dimwit, with a lifetime of fraternising with anti-US, anti-UK, and anti-Israeli activists and often terrorists. End of.
Boris is pathologically selfish, abortion procuring liar, who came to power by appealing to xenophobic instinct and undermining the leader who tried to clean up the shit he left on the carpet. Also end of.
I have limited respect for anyone actively campaigning for either.
I have zero respect for both and I'm rapidly moving as much of my business abroad (thankfully it's all software so the work can be done anywhere and equally sold/invoiced from anywhere).
The one redeeming feature Labour has is that thanks to Scotland they cannot currently win a majority so a lot of their plans may be moderated before being inacted.
A section of our community is scared and you come out with fucking polls.
Now you know how w/c, BME, LGBTQ+ and people with disabilities feel whenever there is a tory government.
The word 'disgust' doesn't even begin the capture the way the rest of us feel about tories.
No matter who is leading it or what their actions have been? Thats as dumb as someone feeling intense visceral hatred of labour regardless of who the leader is or what their actions have been.
Not all Tory governments and oppositions are the same, nor are all labour governments and oppositions the same, they dont do the same things or act the same way. Who leads them and what they do matters, it's why boris and Corbyn and their base supporters matter .
And people are so proud, its so central to their identity, to say how they always viscerally hate party x, regardless of the fact parties act very differently over time.
Its pathetic and childish to act like parties are always offering the same negatives or positives, yet the pride people have in doing so, to display their morality, makes me more depressed than davidl is optimistic this morning. Its declaring pride in ignorantly judging a changing situation as if its static.
I know what your reaction will be to this, some attention grabbing swear I assume, but I just don't understand the logic in pretending our parties have such consistent ideology that 'any' government of party x, labour or tory, is not only unfavourable but to be feared or would be disgusting. It goes against the other critique we usually have if them, that that they dont stick to principles.
The reality is either can be fine and either can be terrible . Its reasonable to think one is more likely to be terrible, but any? Grow up.
It’s very visceral and personal for people like @Dura_Ace
I can only imagine he had a very bad sexual experience with a Tory in his formative teenage years (or possibly in the navy) who betrayed him, so it’s fucked him up for life.
Nah - he's just a Leeds United fan. Hate is their DNA.
If it makes it 5 years without a successful indy vote it's in good shape. Despite the promises not to hold one I dont see how we avoid that though - when so many support going indy the issue wont just go away.
The Spanish government has blocked an indyref for years in Catalonia and the poll does not rule out devomax being the change of form for the UK
On Islamophobia, it is worth noting that the Conservatives have selected the former chairman of Muslims for Britain to replace Spelman in Meriden. They have also selected a man of Somalian heritage to try and retake Cardiff North.
I am less interested at this moment in the background of the successful candidates and more interested in the fact I believe that news means that Nick Timothy has failed in his bid to become PPC for Meriden.
So good news all round!
Oh, come come. Nick Timothy may be - ok, is - an insufferable, self-satisfied, and generally wrong person, but it would be genuinely hilarious to have him continually bellyaching in the House of Commons.
On Islamophobia, it is worth noting that the Conservatives have selected the former chairman of Muslims for Britain to replace Spelman in Meriden. They have also selected a man of Somalian heritage to try and retake Cardiff North.
I am less interested at this moment in the background of the successful candidates and more interested in the fact I believe that news means that Nick Timothy has failed in his bid to become PPC for Meriden.
If it makes it 5 years without a successful indy vote it's in good shape. Despite the promises not to hold one I dont see how we avoid that though - when so many support going indy the issue wont just go away.
The Spanish government has blocked an indyref for years in Catalonia and the poll does not rule out devomax being the change of form for the UK
In terms of electoral impact, I think if Swinson has a proper go at Labour for being racist then it could have an impact. I think Tory attack lines are priced in.
In the real world away from politics, where do they find these people? Growing up, “antisemitism” was a historic concept. The idea of anyone thinking of someone Jewish that way was preposterous. This is so sad because it’s isn’t “the Labour Party” it’s our friends and neighbours.
Blimey, what a cantankerous thread. A couple of people clearly missed their dose of dried frog pills, which is ironic if you're in the pharmaceutical industry.
Anyway, I'd like to echo those referring to Maajid Nawaz's twitter thread, which is a clear, even-handed and frankly peerless explanation of the issue.
On Islamophobia, it is worth noting that the Conservatives have selected the former chairman of Muslims for Britain to replace Spelman in Meriden. They have also selected a man of Somalian heritage to try and retake Cardiff North.
It's also worth noting in Apartheid South Africa there were plenty of non whites in the armed forces, police and various positions of power and influence. In Mugabe's Zimbabwe there were plenty of whites who were in his government too. It really means nothing in the overall scheme of things aside giving either party a veneer of respectability on an issue they are both deeply problematic on.
If it makes it 5 years without a successful indy vote it's in good shape. Despite the promises not to hold one I dont see how we avoid that though - when so many support going indy the issue wont just go away.
The Spanish government has blocked an indyref for years in Catalonia and the poll does not rule out devomax being the change of form for the UK
You’re using the proto-fascist Spanish government as an example of good governance?
Perhaps if Labour can be utterly immolated, there will be a silver lining to our present clouds.
I tend to think that everything turned to shit since that fateful day Corbyn was elected. Removing him from the scene - and humilating everything he stands for - is probably an necessary precondition to national recovery.
If it makes it 5 years without a successful indy vote it's in good shape. Despite the promises not to hold one I dont see how we avoid that though - when so many support going indy the issue wont just go away.
The Spanish government has blocked an indyref for years in Catalonia and the poll does not rule out devomax being the change of form for the UK
You’re using the proto-fascist Spanish government as an example of good governance?
The Labour candidate Byrne mentioned earlier with the foul mouthed rants against women MPs was endorsed by McDonnell and Pidcock and on stage before Jezza last night at the rally. Quality.
Perhaps if Labour can be utterly immolated, there will be a silver lining to our present clouds.
I tend to think that everything turned to shit since that fateful day Corbyn was elected. Removing him from the scene - and humilating everything he stands for - is probably an necessary precondition to national recovery.
I voted for Corbyn in that leadership election. How stupid I was.
Anyone else shocked that the Catholic Church will protect nonces?
The Roman Catholic Church will oppose calls for priests to break the seal of the confessional to report admissions of child abuse, a public inquiry was told yesterday.
Cardinal Vincent Nichols, the Archbishop of Westminster, said the church could not accept any recommendation from the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse to require priests to disclose matters admitted to them during the sacrament.
A section of our community is scared and you come out with fucking polls.
Now you know how w/c, BME, LGBTQ+ and people with disabilities feel whenever there is a tory government.
The word 'disgust' doesn't even begin the capture the way the rest of us feel about tories.
No matter who is leading it or what their actions have been? Thats as dumb as someone feeling intense visceral hatred of labour regardless of who the leader is or what their actions have been.
Not all Tory governments and oppositions are the same, nor are all labour governments and oppositions the same, they dont do the same things or act the same way. Who leads them and what they do matters, it's why boris and Corbyn and their base supporters matter .
And people are so proud, its so central to their identity, to say how they always viscerally hate party x, regardless of the fact parties act very differently over time.
Its pathetic and childish to act like parties are always offering the same negatives or positives, yet the pride people have in doing so, to display their morality, makes me more depressed than davidl is optimistic this morning. Its declaring pride in ignorantly judging a changing situation as if its static.
I know what your reaction will be to this, some attention grabbing swear I assume, but I just don't understand the logic in pretending our parties have such consistent ideology that 'any' government of party x, labour or tory, is not only unfavourable but to be feared or would be disgusting. It goes against the other critique we usually have if them, that that they dont stick to principles.
The reality is either can be fine and either can be terrible . Its reasonable to think one is more likely to be terrible, but any? Grow up.
It’s very visceral and personal for people like @Dura_Ace
I can only imagine he had a very bad sexual experience with a Tory in his formative teenage years (or possibly in the navy) who betrayed him, so it’s fucked him up for life.
Nah - he's just a Leeds United fan. Hate is their DNA.
Noone likes us, we dont care
Going to be the Labour mantra in a while if they keep on their current path
If it makes it 5 years without a successful indy vote it's in good shape. Despite the promises not to hold one I dont see how we avoid that though - when so many support going indy the issue wont just go away.
The Spanish government has blocked an indyref for years in Catalonia and the poll does not rule out devomax being the change of form for the UK
The Spanish constitution blocks a referendum in Catalonia. The UK constitution does not block one in Scotland.
On Islamophobia, it is worth noting that the Conservatives have selected the former chairman of Muslims for Britain to replace Spelman in Meriden. They have also selected a man of Somalian heritage to try and retake Cardiff North.
It's also worth noting in Apartheid South Africa there were plenty of non whites in the armed forces, police and various positions of power and influence. In Mugabe's Zimbabwe there were plenty of whites who were in his government too. It really means nothing in the overall scheme of things aside giving either party a veneer of respectability on an issue they are both deeply problematic on.
We have the son of a Muslim bus driver as Chancellor.
How many "token" blacks rose to the rank of Chancellor in apartheid South Africa?
Could we try asking all the posters who have posted on here this morning to describe the anti semitic act by Jeremy Corbyn that has offended them on behalf of their Jewish bretheren the most? (Preferably not connected with Israel).
You cant tie it to one person its becoming systemic
Perhaps if Labour can be utterly immolated, there will be a silver lining to our present clouds.
I tend to think that everything turned to shit since that fateful day Corbyn was elected. Removing him from the scene - and humilating everything he stands for - is probably an necessary precondition to national recovery.
I voted for Corbyn in that leadership election. How stupid I was.
A section of our community is scared and you come out with fucking polls.
Now you know how w/c, BME, LGBTQ+ and people with disabilities feel whenever there is a tory government.
The word 'disgust' doesn't even begin the capture the way the rest of us feel about tories.
What a load of crap.
More Tory BME and LGBT and disabled Tory MPs than ever before, more BME and disabled people in work than in 2010, gay marriage brought in under Cameron
Left to the Tories alone it probably wouldn't have happened, despite Cameron's support. The odds are the majority of Tory MPs after this GE will be opposed to gay marriage and there would probably be a move to overturn it except for the fact that just about every opposition MP would back up moderate Tories and oppose it.
It is boring to watch the apologists do their apologising.
Jeremy is a doddery hard-left dimwit, with a lifetime of fraternising with anti-US, anti-UK, and anti-Israeli activists and often terrorists. End of.
Boris is pathologically selfish, abortion procuring liar, who came to power by appealing to xenophobic instinct and undermining the leader who tried to clean up the shit he left on the carpet. Also end of.
I have limited respect for anyone actively campaigning for either.
It is boring to watch the apologists do their apologising.
Jeremy is a doddery hard-left dimwit, with a lifetime of fraternising with anti-US, anti-UK, and anti-Israeli activists and often terrorists. End of.
Boris is pathologically selfish, abortion procuring liar, who came to power by appealing to xenophobic instinct and undermining the leader who tried to clean up the shit he left on the carpet. Also end of.
I have limited respect for anyone actively campaigning for either.
A section of our community is scared and you come out with fucking polls.
Now you know how w/c, BME, LGBTQ+ and people with disabilities feel whenever there is a tory government.
The word 'disgust' doesn't even begin the capture the way the rest of us feel about tories.
To be fair, a plus point for the Lib Dems this time is that they no longer have a homophobic leader.
Yeah, because they forced him out by being anti-religious bigots.
Unfortunately they didn't force him out because of his homophobia, or even because of the lies he told about it. Many of them - even LGBT activists - continued to defend him while he was still leader.
But interesting to see your characterisation of people who don't think it's appropriate for a homophobe to lead a "Liberal" party - and a homophobe who had actually voted against outlawing discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation - as "anti-religious bigots."
Could we try asking all the posters who have posted on here this morning to describe the anti semitic act by Jeremy Corbyn that has offended them on behalf of their Jewish bretheren the most? (Preferably not connected with Israel).
You cant tie it to one person its becoming systemic
Shame on you for trying to downplay the problem.
Besides, it's easy to answer him. Enabling the institutional racism in his party. Or, more succinctly, having the effrontery to breathe the same air as decent people.
LOL I'll go with "has a professional interest in the matter, she has researched it diligently" over your, and @tyson's, and @TheJezziah's "no really he's not".
You must go with whatever you think best, of course, but I've known him on and off for 50 years, without his ever expressing the slightest prejudice against anyone. He just doesn't do prejudice. (He's even perfectly civil about Tories ) I wouldn't call him a tremendously warm man, but he's civilised and restrained in talking about anyone.
Yep, he politely stood shoulder to shoulder with professed anti-Semites for 40 years without once condemning them. In fact, he very warmly called them his friends. How perfectly civil of him.
Gisela Stuart has joined the labour for Boris movement
Is this the former Labour MP and Chair of the Vote Leave campaign?
Yes it is. I can fully understand her and the other ex-Labour MPs attacking Corbyn but how can you go from being a Labour MP to actively backing the current Tory Party?
It doesn't help moderate ex-Labour voters like me because it feeds the Corbynistas who claim they were Tories all along. Attack Corbyn by all means but backing the Tories loses them any credibility.
Whether or not they are justified, the fears of a group of our fellow citizens are real.
And you choose to joke about it.
There isn't really a joke there, claiming to be worried about minority concerns and then voting Conservative is.
What don’t you get?
The Jewish community is terrified and nearly half are considering leaving the country.
Of course there are some racists in the Tory party - as in every party - but they have a Muslim heritage Chancellor (I believe he’s agnostic?)
The Muslim community may not vote Tory, but they are not afraid of them.
How very kind of you to appoint yourself as spokesperson for the entire Muslim community in the UK. I'm sure they'll be very happy to have you in the role.
What?
I’m not appointing myself spokesman for anyone. I’ve not seen data suggesting Muslims are afraid of a Tory government
But fuck you. Our Jewish fellow citizens are being attacked and you want to make cute debating points.
I recognise your name so I guess you’ve been around for awhile. You’ll know that I don’t get riled up by much. This makes me furious.
You don't get furious about the government suspending democracy.
You chortle when race-baiting is used to win a referendum so that you can profit from the chaos.
You're very selective in the causes of your fury. Motes and beams, motes and beams.
I was furious about the idea of the government suspending democracy. That's why I opposed the backstop.
The government never suspended democracy though. The backstop was defeated and we now have a general election.
The government literally suspended democracy when it prorogued to avoid scrutiny by the country's elected representatives. But you loved that because the trashing of our civic structures was in aid of your mad obsession.
No it didn't. For a few reasons.
1: Did you miss the Supreme Court case? Parliament was never prorogued so it didn't prorogue Parliament. 2: The proposed prorogation, which never happened, was for just a few sitting days and over recess prior to a proposed Queens Speech. 3: When prorogation happened, the Queens Speech did occur quite lawfully and guess what, the same number of sitting days were lost. Funny that!
The backstop would have meant we'd have laws applied to us that we had no right to vote on. But yeah, bang on about a few sitting days and a prorogation because that's the big picture isn't it? You're so monomaniacal you can't see the woods for the trees now.
Corybn is icky and historically Jews have a right to be paranoid but this is ridiculous. Their safety isn't threatened by a Labour government, they don't need to flee to Israel.
No it is not ridiculous. The hate enabled by vile anti-Semitism embedded in the far left groups Corbyn mixes with is a real threat.
Viktor Orban is a vile Anti Semite
Yet you want to be in a union so that he can vote on our laws don't you?
On Islamophobia, it is worth noting that the Conservatives have selected the former chairman of Muslims for Britain to replace Spelman in Meriden. They have also selected a man of Somalian heritage to try and retake Cardiff North.
It's also worth noting in Apartheid South Africa there were plenty of non whites in the armed forces, police and various positions of power and influence. In Mugabe's Zimbabwe there were plenty of whites who were in his government too. It really means nothing in the overall scheme of things aside giving either party a veneer of respectability on an issue they are both deeply problematic on.
We have the son of a Muslim bus driver as Chancellor. How many "token" blacks rose to the rank of Chancellor in apartheid South Africa? Pillock.
All very well having the son of a Muslim bus driver as Chancellor, Mr Mark, but does he know what he is doing?
Could we try asking all the posters who have posted on here this morning to describe the anti semitic act by Jeremy Corbyn that has offended them on behalf of their Jewish bretheren the most? (Preferably not connected with Israel).
You cant tie it to one person its becoming systemic
Shame on you for trying to downplay the problem.
If it exists its really not difficult. I'll make it easy I'll give you a few examples of racism out of the top of my head and you match them
1. A poster showing Muslims 'flooding ' into the country with Nigel Farage standing in front of it.
2. Quentin Letts referring to Ed Milliband's 'large conk' in the Dail Mail.
3. Michael Howard's Are you thinking what we're thinking' featuring Gypsies.
4. Vote Leave's broadcast on the NHS. Nice old lady couldn't see a doctor because the waiting room was full of swarthy Immigrants
5. Theresa May's 'Immigrant's Go Home' vans driving through Golders Green.
6. Boris Johnson's bank robber reference to all those wearing large black hats and side curls or was it Burqas?
The government literally suspended democracy when it prorogued to avoid scrutiny by the country's elected representatives. But you loved that because the trashing of our civic structures was in aid of your mad obsession.
No it didn't. For a few reasons.
1: Did you miss the Supreme Court case? Parliament was never prorogued so it didn't prorogue Parliament. 2: The proposed prorogation, which never happened, was for just a few sitting days and over recess prior to a proposed Queens Speech. 3: When prorogation happened, the Queens Speech did occur quite lawfully and guess what, the same number of sitting days were lost. Funny that!
The backstop would have meant we'd have laws applied to us that we had no right to vote on. But yeah, bang on about a few sitting days and a prorogation because that's the big picture isn't it? You're so monomaniacal you can't see the woods for the trees now.
Parliament prorogued, but it was then declared invalid by the Supreme Court, so in fact it never happened and so you can't mention it.
If it makes it 5 years without a successful indy vote it's in good shape. Despite the promises not to hold one I dont see how we avoid that though - when so many support going indy the issue wont just go away.
The Spanish government has blocked an indyref for years in Catalonia and the poll does not rule out devomax being the change of form for the UK
The Spanish constitution blocks a referendum in Catalonia. The UK constitution does not block one in Scotland.
Yep, he politely stood shoulder to shoulder with professed anti-Semites for 40 years without once condemning them. In fact, he very warmly called them his friends. How perfectly civil of him.
He's apologised for the "friends" remark (it was in the context of a "welcome to this hearing" remark) as clearly misjudged.
I remember being shown around the Canadian war memorial at Vimy Ridge by a Quebecois. The English in the tour party could understand his French, but the French on the tour could not!
It's not. It's an entirely different political party which has just inherited the name. Such a shame.
I am trying to decide which party - Conservatives or Labour - will be the first to place an order for brown shirts for their supporters. It might be a photo finish...
Anyone else shocked that the Catholic Church will protect nonces?
The Roman Catholic Church will oppose calls for priests to break the seal of the confessional to report admissions of child abuse, a public inquiry was told yesterday.
Cardinal Vincent Nichols, the Archbishop of Westminster, said the church could not accept any recommendation from the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse to require priests to disclose matters admitted to them during the sacrament.
It's not. It's an entirely different political party which has just inherited the name. Such a shame.
No, it is. The cowards who tweet outrage and do nothing have enabled it. Labour is thus, thus have they made Labour
A lot of people voting Labour are still to realise that the party they think they are voting for no longer exists. It's like Hannibal Lecter wearing that's guards face at the end of Silence of the Lambs.
Perhaps if Labour can be utterly immolated, there will be a silver lining to our present clouds.
I tend to think that everything turned to shit since that fateful day Corbyn was elected. Removing him from the scene - and humilating everything he stands for - is probably an necessary precondition to national recovery.
I voted for Corbyn in that leadership election. How stupid I was.
Whenever I see that video I am always reminded of Shaun "Barry from Eastenders" Williamson dressed in the same gear doing the same song in a sitcom. I can't remember what. If ever Mindbleach was needed this is it.
After having done a little bit of canvassing over the last week as a sanity check on the 2017 Tory pledges I am now in a position to say that I think the Conservatives are in some real trouble. People apathetic(I know more than 2017) and some lib dem tory waiverers from that year are now 100% LD. I know it's a sample of only a hundred or so but you get a bit of a feeling on the doorstep. Bojo is so marmite that he pretty much gets those that dont like him determined to vote him out.
Comments
I voted leave because I didn’t like the structure and direction of travel of the EU and because I felt the interests of many of my fellow country men and women were being ignored.
He’s down to 14s this morning (shorter even than Hillary).
I can only imagine he had a very bad sexual experience with a Tory in his formative teenage years (or possibly in the navy) who betrayed him, so it’s fucked him up for life.
As much as I loathe the Tories, I do personally favour the relaxation of the Osborne/Hammond fiscal rules to allow capital investment.
This seems to be precisely what Javid is now proposing.
Good on him for quashing Boris’s tax cuts - they make no economic sense.
The spivs and charlatans have always been the preserve of the Libdem "Winning here" bar charts.
Oh, and is Lord Rennard still operating for you, in the light or more likely in the shadows, this campaign? If so, it marks a high-point of Jo Swinson's hypocrisy.....
The State should treat all couples (of whatever gender) who chose to form a permanent relationship equally. Doesn’t matter whether that is called partnership , marriage, or square-dancing.
Churches and other religions should be permitted to bless or sanctify whichever of these relationships they choose.
Oh dear
Jeremy is a doddery hard-left dimwit, with a lifetime of fraternising with anti-US, anti-UK, and anti-Israeli activists and often terrorists. End of.
Boris is pathologically selfish, abortion procuring liar, who came to power by appealing to xenophobic instinct and undermining the leader who tried to clean up the shit he left on the carpet. Also end of.
I have limited respect for anyone actively campaigning for either.
Don’t think that really counts as “enthusiastically back[ing]”
But I stand by it. Being instinctively for or against the general principles of one party over another makes sense, spitting with hatred even if party x now is totally different to how it was previously, and acting the same toward them, is childish. Labour under Blair and Attlee were not the same, nor tories under Major and Churchill.
We take it seriously...... wankers
So good news all round!
The one redeeming feature Labour has is that thanks to Scotland they cannot currently win a majority so a lot of their plans may be moderated before being inacted.
The Tories can but Boris really can't be trusted.
But I cannot spend all day equivocation- to work!
https://twitter.com/jasongroves1/status/1192732667445424128?s=21&fbclid=IwAR3xAUt3pLtdpgtGs9hBV5K6Fiw-FYI22nwHR-lyk-Pr3sdApmbju2djbCI
"Says he didn't realise Shylock was Jewish"
oh
my
word
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/11/08/brexit-general-election-latest-news-labour-party-corbyn-boris-johnson/
In the real world away from politics, where do they find these people? Growing up, “antisemitism” was a historic concept. The idea of anyone thinking of someone Jewish that way was preposterous. This is so sad because it’s isn’t “the Labour Party” it’s our friends and neighbours.
Anyway, I'd like to echo those referring to Maajid Nawaz's twitter thread, which is a clear, even-handed and frankly peerless explanation of the issue.
A bit 1984 John
Just keep on repeating those lies
Perhaps if Labour can be utterly immolated, there will be a silver lining to our present clouds.
I tend to think that everything turned to shit since that fateful day Corbyn was elected. Removing him from the scene - and humilating everything he stands for - is probably an necessary precondition to national recovery.
* files away to use for a character some time.... *
The Roman Catholic Church will oppose calls for priests to break the seal of the confessional to report admissions of child abuse, a public inquiry was told yesterday.
Cardinal Vincent Nichols, the Archbishop of Westminster, said the church could not accept any recommendation from the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse to require priests to disclose matters admitted to them during the sacrament.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/priests-will-not-report-child-abuse-confessions-nkp7t8mbw
How many "token" blacks rose to the rank of Chancellor in apartheid South Africa?
Pillock.
Shame on you for trying to downplay the problem.
But interesting to see your characterisation of people who don't think it's appropriate for a homophobe to lead a "Liberal" party - and a homophobe who had actually voted against outlawing discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation - as "anti-religious bigots."
https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1192739867316367360
Yes it is. I can fully understand her and the other ex-Labour MPs attacking Corbyn but how can you go from being a Labour MP to actively backing the current Tory Party?
It doesn't help moderate ex-Labour voters like me because it feeds the Corbynistas who claim they were Tories all along. Attack Corbyn by all means but backing the Tories loses them any credibility.
Going well, isn't it?
1: Did you miss the Supreme Court case? Parliament was never prorogued so it didn't prorogue Parliament.
2: The proposed prorogation, which never happened, was for just a few sitting days and over recess prior to a proposed Queens Speech.
3: When prorogation happened, the Queens Speech did occur quite lawfully and guess what, the same number of sitting days were lost. Funny that!
The backstop would have meant we'd have laws applied to us that we had no right to vote on. But yeah, bang on about a few sitting days and a prorogation because that's the big picture isn't it? You're so monomaniacal you can't see the woods for the trees now.
It did not come off.
In 2017 I placed a sure thing bet on Con majority.
It did not come off.
I am now considering a significant Conservative most seats bet.
I am saying this to give PB forewarning.
1. A poster showing Muslims 'flooding ' into the country with Nigel Farage standing in front of it.
2. Quentin Letts referring to Ed Milliband's 'large conk' in the Dail Mail.
3. Michael Howard's Are you thinking what we're thinking' featuring Gypsies.
4. Vote Leave's broadcast on the NHS. Nice old lady couldn't see a doctor because the waiting room was full of swarthy Immigrants
5. Theresa May's 'Immigrant's Go Home' vans driving through Golders Green.
6. Boris Johnson's bank robber reference to all those wearing large black hats and side curls or was it Burqas?
Mate. Really?
The metaphor is likely to continue.
People apathetic(I know more than 2017) and some lib dem tory waiverers from that year are now 100% LD.
I know it's a sample of only a hundred or so but you get a bit of a feeling on the doorstep. Bojo is so marmite that he pretty much gets those that dont like him determined to vote him out.