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  • FlannerFlanner Posts: 437
    Barnesian said:



    I'm not suggesting that Johnson has mental health problems....

    But I do observe his personality and describe it as Tiggerish. (I take it you are familiar with Winnie the Pooh). He is irrepressible, enthusiastic, optimistic, bouncy, disorganised. How does he cope with a setback like this? That's what I'm asking.

    The traits you describe as Tiggerish - together with his inability to keep his fly zipped up and a taste for reckless gambles - are also characteristic of hypermania, which is usually the "up" half of bipolar disorder. But the Johnson who appeared in "The Brexit Storm: Laura Kuenssberg's Inside Story" last March was behaving in a way compatible with the "down" side.

    I'm no expert on psychiatry - but there's a great deal more to Johnson's weirdness than just being posh. His Eton headmaster AND the master of his Oxford college are now on record as showing surprise at his self-centred dishonesty. And both Eton and Balliol have been turning out entitled eccentrics for centuries.

    I definitely AM suggesting that our PM is nuts in a way no PM in the past century (and possibly no Head of Government since George III) has been.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    Just dropped a couple of quid at 44, that we leave the EU on 31st October.

    Given Corbyn is waiting for what the EU say, and the EU is waiting on what Corbyn says, it’s not impossible that we still get an unplanned crash out next week, or that the deal gets rushed though.

    I think it should be 20-25 rather than more than 40.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:


    I think there is a difference between an election in February or October and one in mid-December, less than 2 weeks till Christmas. My work Xmas party is the next day, for instance (could make for a very awkward evening). Nobody will thank the Tories for this, I think Labour should go for it.

    The last time a PM went to the country in December it backfired for him horribly. I predict a repeat.
    When was that?
    6th December 1923

    The PM Stanley Baldwin started the campaign with 344 seats and ended it by losing 86 of them.
    So, 4 years short of a century ago. Yep - that’s a telling precedent.....
    If you were HYUFD, you'd be claiming it was an iron rule.
    The only phrase I can say in a Belfast accent is “the iron law of historical necessity” - paisleys justification for saying NO
    Have you decided whether to be Irish or not yet?
    I’m in no hurry to do so. Having two passports isn’t something that should be done lightly. I just mentioned it was an option if things become intolerable
    You're lucky. Some of us didn't vote for Brexit and have no such option.
    If you can prove some familial connection to Charles from 5 centuries ago, he'll see what he can do on the old influence front.
    You’re in luck! My Scottish roots are much deeper than that!
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Corbyn struggling with this Richard and Judy interrogation
  • Sandpit said:

    Just dropped a couple of quid at 44, that we leave the EU on 31st October.

    Given Corbyn is waiting for what the EU say, and the EU is waiting on what Corbyn says, it’s not impossible that we still get an unplanned crash out next week, or that the deal gets rushed though.

    I think it should be 20-25 rather than more than 40.

    Thanks, not sure if its value or not but plausible and cheap enough to be considered no deal insurance!
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited October 2019
    Is this suggesting Need for an extension as

    a) What is the reason? What will it be used for? or
    b) One is needed as No Deal happens in 6 days or
    c) both
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    I'm not a big fan of the current Labour set up (and many of their positions are born of deadlock in their own ranks rather than true conviction), but...

    The clue's in the name. Opposition. It is not their job to deliver Boris's policies, Boris's favoured election date etc.

    It is (or would be if they could get the words out) a policy position entirely consistent with the referendum to say "we favour a soft Brexit with these attributes - rule-taking, FOM etc - which will ensure continuity of trade for British business while getting out of the federalist political framework and keeping the peace in Northern Ireland. And we will do everything in our power to obstruct a hard Boris Brexit in the meantime".

    They could be criticised for that stance as not being Brexity enough and the voters would eventually decide. But it would neutralise at a stroke every Leaver who said "the people didn't mandate *what type* of Brexit they wanted". (Nope.. so we're proposing a different one).

    It would also have the advantage of being a clear policy position against LibDem Remain and Tory Hard Leave.

    Meanwhile, if Boris (or Theresa before him) expected support from opposition parties, they should have proposed policies the opposition liked. I'd concede Lab were woolly in their 2017 manifesto, but they certainly made no promises to screw over Northern Ireland or numerous other bits of the deal. In my view they can oppose this deal with a clear conscience - though the electoral consequences would be better for them if they had a clear, principled alternative.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    edited October 2019

    Sandpit said:

    Just dropped a couple of quid at 44, that we leave the EU on 31st October.

    Given Corbyn is waiting for what the EU say, and the EU is waiting on what Corbyn says, it’s not impossible that we still get an unplanned crash out next week, or that the deal gets rushed though.

    I think it should be 20-25 rather than more than 40.

    Thanks, not sure if its value or not but plausible and cheap enough to be considered no deal insurance!
    There's not a lot of liquidity there, but it's certainly short term no-deal insurance. Personally my book is all over the place with all the various permutations of Betfair's Brexit and GE markets, but I am on a December election.

    Ironically my biggest personal risk is on all the uncertainty coming to and end and causing a spike in the pound, as I get paid in USD and have a mortgage in Sterling.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    Brom said:

    Great to see Corbyn doing the important stuff at such an important time - Being on This Morning with Richard and Judy.

    Not such a wise move if you get mauled by the pussycats of daytime TV though!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    OllyT said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tabman said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    No one uses cash these days, malc.
    Boomers got a lot of stuff on a plate. House price windfalls being the biggest, along with gold plated pensions at 60.
    Gen Xers are the once who've really lost out.
    Bollocks, they've had a decade of interest rates on the floor, all to protect the value of their inheritance.
    But many - probably the majority - will not get an inheritance, either their parents haven't got one or if they have it will be spent on care fees.
    Totally off topic I wonder what the long term economic consequences will be of vast quantities of money being diverted to care companies rather than being handed down to children and charities.I guess it creates a lot of employment in the care sector so that is a benefit.

    We are fortunate not to need an inheritance but it would be all the same if we did because it's all but disappeared in care fees now at £60,000 pa per person and rising.

    Dignitas beckons for me when the time comes I'd rather the cash went to the dogs home than the care companies!
    My Mother in Law is very happy in her care home on the Isle of Wight. Good food, lots of arts and activities, and helpful staff. £1,000 per week, but her money from the sale of her bungalow. I'm just glad she is enjoying life again.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:


    I think there is a difference between an election in February or October and one in mid-December, less than 2 weeks till Christmas. My work Xmas party is the next day, for instance (could make for a very awkward evening). Nobody will thank the Tories for this, I think Labour should go for it.

    The last time a PM went to the country in December it backfired for him horribly. I predict a repeat.
    When was that?
    6th December 1923

    The PM Stanley Baldwin started the campaign with 344 seats and ended it by losing 86 of them.
    So, 4 years short of a century ago. Yep - that’s a telling precedent.....
    If you were HYUFD, you'd be claiming it was an iron rule.
    The only phrase I can say in a Belfast accent is “the iron law of historical necessity” - paisleys justification for saying NO
    Have you decided whether to be Irish or not yet?
    I’m in no hurry to do so. Having two passports isn’t something that should be done lightly. I just mentioned it was an option if things become intolerable
    You're lucky. Some of us didn't vote for Brexit and have no such option.
    If you can prove some familial connection to Charles from 5 centuries ago, he'll see what he can do on the old influence front.
    You’re in luck! My Scottish roots are much deeper than that!
    More than a turnip then. A veritable rutabuga.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    It seems to be very bad tempered in here today...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    They think young people will vote for Corbyn, one of UK's leading Brexiteers?

    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1187677262612709376
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616

    It seems to be very bad tempered in here today...

    Default setting!
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Brom said:

    Great to see Corbyn doing the important stuff at such an important time - Being on This Morning with Richard and Judy.

    Not such a wise move if you get mauled by the pussycats of daytime TV though!
    No doubt the Labour fanatics will be complaining on twitter that their next guest Louise Redknapp is getting an easier ride.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    philiph said:

    Is this suggesting Need for an extension as

    a) What is the reason? or
    b) One is needed as No Deal happens in 6 days or
    c) both
    The issue isn’t the extension but duration . They will grant the extension especially as they realize there’s no time to put through the legislation and the European Parliament needs time to ratify the deal .

    You can see their point re an election. They need to know what’s happening .
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    No one uses cash these days, malc.
    Bit of an exaggeration.
  • Why would anyone inclined to vote leave in a re-referendum believe for a moment that this parliament would be any more likely to respect it than they have the first one?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,215
    edited October 2019

    They think young people will vote for Corbyn, one of UK's leading Brexiteers?

    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1187677262612709376

    If the students are off term won't they just vote in their "home" constituency ?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Mr. Above, if the Commons refuse to back a deal, refuse to back a revocation, refuse to have a vote of no confidence in the Government, and refuse to agree anything else the logical conclusion is that this Commons is no good for anything but prevarication.

    [Of course, the next Commons could be worse].

    Clearly this parliament is not great. That is a separate issue to whether the PM should be able to decide when the election is, when the law is clear that is for parliament to decide, and the mandate from the people is for 5 years.
    The issue is that Parliament is not doing its job

    It is preventing the executive from doing its but is not willing to replace the executive
    Parliament passed the WA and it is the executive who have stalled it specifically for seeking political advantage.
    It wants to amend a treaty. Not it’s job. Parliamentary overreach is the heart of the problem
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    Loan sharks will be popping the champagne corks.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50174367
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,504
    AndyJS said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    No one uses cash these days, malc.
    Bit of an exaggeration.
    Cash is utterly pointless. Get rid.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    I'm not a big fan of the current Labour set up (and many of their positions are born of deadlock in their own ranks rather than true conviction), but...

    The clue's in the name. Opposition. It is not their job to deliver Boris's policies, Boris's favoured election date etc...

    While that's true in a general sense at the moment the government lacks even a formal majority and the opposition has passed more legislation than the government since Johnson became PM.

    So in these particular circumstances the government is unable to function as normal. We should really see either a change of government, with a new Prime Minister, or an election so that the electorate can decide between the government and opposition.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited October 2019

    They think young people will vote for Corbyn, one of UK's leading Brexiteers?

    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1187677262612709376

    Has anyone ever done a proper analysis* of whether the student vote really matters in aggregate? Clearly it affects individual seats. There are some university marginals but there are also lots of university safe seats - and scattering their student population back to their home towns will change some results in marginal seats there.

    *Assumption: students will vote at the same rate at home or university
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Why would anyone inclined to vote leave in a re-referendum believe for a moment that this parliament would be any more likely to respect it than they have the first one?

    Fair point
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,504
    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ian Blackford on Today: would prefer election on 5th December.

    5th December would be better than 12th anyway December anyway.

    I wonder if there's a deal to be done between Boris and Blackford here?
    Yawn.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    Pulpstar said:

    They think young people will vote for Corbyn, one of UK's leading Brexiteers?

    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1187677262612709376

    If the students are off term won't they just vote in their "home" constituency ?
    Yeah but that dilutes their progressive votes.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2019

    AndyJS said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    No one uses cash these days, malc.
    Bit of an exaggeration.
    Cash is utterly pointless. Get rid.
    I use cash as much as possible because I don't like being told what to do. 20 years ago I probably used cards more than average for the time. (Think I was 16 when I first used them IIRC, although you could use a cash machine card from the age of 14 at that time).
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    nico67 said:

    philiph said:

    Is this suggesting Need for an extension as

    a) What is the reason? or
    b) One is needed as No Deal happens in 6 days or
    c) both
    The issue isn’t the extension but duration . They will grant the extension especially as they realize there’s no time to put through the legislation and the European Parliament needs time to ratify the deal .

    You can see their point re an election. They need to know what’s happening .
    They do need to know what is happening (as do we).

    A pity Labour need them to say what is happening before making a decision that No Deal is off the metaphorical table.

    Those two positions seem to be at odds with each other and to mutually harm each other.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Why would anyone inclined to vote leave in a re-referendum believe for a moment that this parliament would be any more likely to respect it than they have the first one?

    That's the underlying issue with a 2nd ref. MPs have lost the trust of the public, with MPs spending so much time trashing the result of the 1st ref they devalue the worth of a 2nd one.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,504
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:


    I think there is a difference between an election in February or October and one in mid-December, less than 2 weeks till Christmas. My work Xmas party is the next day, for instance (could make for a very awkward evening). Nobody will thank the Tories for this, I think Labour should go for it.

    The last time a PM went to the country in December it backfired for him horribly. I predict a repeat.
    When was that?
    6th December 1923

    The PM Stanley Baldwin started the campaign with 344 seats and ended it by losing 86 of them.
    So, 4 years short of a century ago. Yep - that’s a telling precedent.....
    If you were HYUFD, you'd be claiming it was an iron rule.
    The only phrase I can say in a Belfast accent is “the iron law of historical necessity” - paisleys justification for saying NO
    Have you decided whether to be Irish or not yet?
    I’m in no hurry to do so. Having two passports isn’t something that should be done lightly. I just mentioned it was an option if things become intolerable
    You're lucky. Some of us didn't vote for Brexit and have no such option.
    If you can prove some familial connection to Charles from 5 centuries ago, he'll see what he can do on the old influence front.
    You’re in luck! My Scottish roots are much deeper than that!
    Of course they are.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited October 2019
    What has happened? Text all gone centred

    And now back to normal
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,215
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Mr. Above, if the Commons refuse to back a deal, refuse to back a revocation, refuse to have a vote of no confidence in the Government, and refuse to agree anything else the logical conclusion is that this Commons is no good for anything but prevarication.

    [Of course, the next Commons could be worse].

    Clearly this parliament is not great. That is a separate issue to whether the PM should be able to decide when the election is, when the law is clear that is for parliament to decide, and the mandate from the people is for 5 years.
    The issue is that Parliament is not doing its job

    It is preventing the executive from doing its but is not willing to replace the executive
    Parliament passed the WA and it is the executive who have stalled it specifically for seeking political advantage.
    It wants to amend a treaty. Not it’s job. Parliamentary overreach is the heart of the problem
    Much as I'm not a fan a referendum on the deal amendment wouldn't nor would Boles proposed change (I think).
    Customs Union depends how it is worded.

    Amendments that seek to amend the WA should be disallowed though.
  • Pulpstar said:

    They think young people will vote for Corbyn, one of UK's leading Brexiteers?

    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1187677262612709376

    If the students are off term won't they just vote in their "home" constituency ?
    I always registered myself in both places, and then chose where to vote based on a combination of what was most convenient and where it might make a difference. From memory it’s lawful to vote in both places in locals, just massively impractical.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Brom said:

    Corbyn struggling with this Richard and Judy interrogation

    LMAO - if he can't handle them.....
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,504
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    No one uses cash these days, malc.
    Bit of an exaggeration.
    Cash is utterly pointless. Get rid.
    I use cash as much as possible because I don't like being told what to do. 20 years ago I probably used cards more than average for the time. (Think I was 16 when I first used them IIRC).

    Odd.
  • AndyJS said:
    To be fair, the LibDem leadership probably doesn't want to go too far out on a limb compared with the other parties by having a coherent position.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Pulpstar said:

    They think young people will vote for Corbyn, one of UK's leading Brexiteers?

    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1187677262612709376

    If the students are off term won't they just vote in their "home" constituency ?
    Students' "home" constituencies tend to be Conservative safe seats, because posh people are more likely to go to university, even with 50 per cent participation now, but iirc dual registration is a thing of the past and they have to choose.

    Though one would hope that students even at poor schools like Oxford would be able to work the postal vote system. A bigger problem for Labour might be that its student voters are more likely to have taken 12-hour shifts at McDonalds or Debenhams.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Pulpstar said:

    They think young people will vote for Corbyn, one of UK's leading Brexiteers?

    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1187677262612709376

    If the students are off term won't they just vote in their "home" constituency ?
    University gives Density of vote = win a seat.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,215

    AndyJS said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    No one uses cash these days, malc.
    Bit of an exaggeration.
    Cash is utterly pointless. Get rid.
    You must be very good at DIY ;)
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    No one uses cash these days, malc.
    Bit of an exaggeration.
    Cash is utterly pointless. Get rid.
    I use cash as much as possible because I don't like being told what to do. 20 years ago I probably used cards more than average for the time. (Think I was 16 when I first used them IIRC).
    Cash for libertarians!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    edited October 2019

    They think young people will vote for Corbyn, one of UK's leading Brexiteers?

    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1187677262612709376

    Has anyone ever done a proper analysis* of whether the student vote really matters in aggregate? Clearly it affects individual seats. There are some university marginals but there are also lots of university safe seats - and scattering their student population back to their home towns will change some results in marginal seats there.

    *Assumption: students will vote at the same rate at home or university
    That's an interesting assumption.

    When at university, an election is an 'event' - you can't go anywhere without knowing it's happening, and the ballot box is probably on campus or close by, and voting is easy.

    When everyone is at home for Christmas, there's old friends and family to see, a lot of temporary work to do, parties to attend and a good time to be had. I'm not sure the same numbers are likely to turn out.

    The other issue is that students might not realise in which town they need to be registered, until it's too late to do so. (Yes they can be registered twice, but how many actually are now that individual registration is required?)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    Brom said:

    Why would anyone inclined to vote leave in a re-referendum believe for a moment that this parliament would be any more likely to respect it than they have the first one?

    That's the underlying issue with a 2nd ref. MPs have lost the trust of the public, with MPs spending so much time trashing the result of the 1st ref they devalue the worth of a 2nd one.
    Which is why they wouldn't even vote in a second one. The widespread boycott would destroy any authority a second referendum might try to claim.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    edited October 2019
    Flanner said:

    Barnesian said:



    I'm not suggesting that Johnson has mental health problems....

    But I do observe his personality and describe it as Tiggerish. (I take it you are familiar with Winnie the Pooh). He is irrepressible, enthusiastic, optimistic, bouncy, disorganised. How does he cope with a setback like this? That's what I'm asking.

    The traits you describe as Tiggerish - together with his inability to keep his fly zipped up and a taste for reckless gambles - are also characteristic of hypermania, which is usually the "up" half of bipolar disorder. But the Johnson who appeared in "The Brexit Storm: Laura Kuenssberg's Inside Story" last March was behaving in a way compatible with the "down" side.

    I'm no expert on psychiatry - but there's a great deal more to Johnson's weirdness than just being posh. His Eton headmaster AND the master of his Oxford college are now on record as showing surprise at his self-centred dishonesty. And both Eton and Balliol have been turning out entitled eccentrics for centuries.

    I definitely AM suggesting that our PM is nuts in a way no PM in the past century (and possibly no Head of Government since George III) has been.
    That's not me. That's Flanner with problems with blockquotes.

    EDIT Which seem to have inherited!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Pulpstar said:

    They think young people will vote for Corbyn, one of UK's leading Brexiteers?

    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1187677262612709376

    If the students are off term won't they just vote in their "home" constituency ?
    There's something a bit odd about people being able to effectively choose which constituency they vote in. It means you'd logically try to arrange to vote in the more marginal seat because your vote would be more likely to make a difference. (I accept hardly anyone does this in practice.)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    AndyJS said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    No one uses cash these days, malc.
    Bit of an exaggeration.
    Cash is utterly pointless. Get rid.
    That's for the people of Stone to decide.
  • Brom said:

    Why would anyone inclined to vote leave in a re-referendum believe for a moment that this parliament would be any more likely to respect it than they have the first one?

    That's the underlying issue with a 2nd ref. MPs have lost the trust of the public, with MPs spending so much time trashing the result of the 1st ref they devalue the worth of a 2nd one.
    Na, parliament has only lost the trust of the swivel eyed frothing members of the public, that no longer like the "take back control" argument now it doesn't suit.

    Most of these do not have the first idea of what parliament is for. Many of them are probably the types that would say they would support a "benign dictator" (oh yes, I have heard people say it!). The last election produced a hung parliament that reflects the divided nature of the country that Brexit fanatics have brought us to. It has all been brought about by Brexiteer stupidity.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    Boomers did not, in most cases, earn the pensions they are now receiving. That is why most pension schemes have deficits. If the boomers had paid sufficient contributions during their working lives these deficits would not exist.
    Utter garbage , it was part of their total renumeration and salaries were kept lower due to the pensions.
    PS: given how stupid you are I will explain simply. Majority of the deficits were due to companies milking the pensions for extra profits to get directors bonuses increased. They took far to many contribution holidays, it was nothing to d owith eth workers or their contributions.
    I could respond with facts but I have a rule that I do not reply to insults on here.

    I wish others did the same.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    edited October 2019

    They think young people will vote for Corbyn, one of UK's leading Brexiteers?

    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1187677262612709376

    So propose an earlier date?

    Or maybe all those Labour MPs don't want to be on the dole for Christmas.....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Just asking questions and then ignoring the answers is not democracy.

    Of course it is, especially if the question is explicitly advisory
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    No one uses cash these days, malc.
    Bit of an exaggeration.
    Cash is utterly pointless. Get rid.
    You must be very good at DIY ;)
    Nearly all the tradesmen we use prefer bank transfers to cash these days.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Brom said:

    Why would anyone inclined to vote leave in a re-referendum believe for a moment that this parliament would be any more likely to respect it than they have the first one?

    That's the underlying issue with a 2nd ref. MPs have lost the trust of the public, with MPs spending so much time trashing the result of the 1st ref they devalue the worth of a 2nd one.
    Na, parliament has only lost the trust of the swivel eyed frothing members of the public, that no longer like the "take back control" argument now it doesn't suit.

    Most of these do not have the first idea of what parliament is for. Many of them are probably the types that would say they would support a "benign dictator" (oh yes, I have heard people say it!). The last election produced a hung parliament that reflects the divided nature of the country that Brexit fanatics have brought us to. It has all been brought about by Brexiteer stupidity.
    Blimey, someone needs an anger management course. Yesterday old man Nige was telling us youngsters how we should think and now he reckons the British public love parliament! A little time away from your computer in the outside world might surprise you.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Floater said:

    Brom said:

    Corbyn struggling with this Richard and Judy interrogation

    LMAO - if he can't handle them.....
    If Corbyn can't handle them, he is like every recent prime minister, including the current one. Being interviewed is a learned skill but if, like Boris, May, Cameron and Brown, you've spent your political lifetime ducking invitations from the BBC, you are most unlikely to have developed the skills.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Why would anyone inclined to vote leave in a re-referendum believe for a moment that this parliament would be any more likely to respect it than they have the first one?

    That's the underlying issue with a 2nd ref. MPs have lost the trust of the public, with MPs spending so much time trashing the result of the 1st ref they devalue the worth of a 2nd one.
    Na, parliament has only lost the trust of the swivel eyed frothing members of the public, that no longer like the "take back control" argument now it doesn't suit.

    Most of these do not have the first idea of what parliament is for. Many of them are probably the types that would say they would support a "benign dictator" (oh yes, I have heard people say it!). The last election produced a hung parliament that reflects the divided nature of the country that Brexit fanatics have brought us to. It has all been brought about by Brexiteer stupidity.
    Blimey, someone needs an anger management course. Yesterday old man Nige was telling us youngsters how we should think and now he reckons the British public love parliament! A little time away from your computer in the outside world might surprise you.
    Anyone seen Farage and Foremain in the same room?
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    Boomers did not, in most cases, earn the pensions they are now receiving. That is why most pension schemes have deficits. If the boomers had paid sufficient contributions during their working lives these deficits would not exist.
    Utter garbage , it was part of their total renumeration and salaries were kept lower due to the pensions.
    PS: given how stupid you are I will explain simply. Majority of the deficits were due to companies milking the pensions for extra profits to get directors bonuses increased. They took far to many contribution holidays, it was nothing to d owith eth workers or their contributions.
    I could respond with facts but I have a rule that I do not reply to insults on here.

    I wish others did the same.
    Good rule.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    Loan sharks will be popping the champagne corks.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50174367

    People still don't realise that these products serve a purpose that's otherwise served by a very shady black market. Much better for everyone that these transactions are done in public, even if a lot of middle classes are shocked by the apparent 'interest' rate. (they'd also be equally shocked by the delinquency rate of the loans).
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Lewis Goodall sums up the situation: "It's chaos".
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Brom said:

    Why would anyone inclined to vote leave in a re-referendum believe for a moment that this parliament would be any more likely to respect it than they have the first one?

    That's the underlying issue with a 2nd ref. MPs have lost the trust of the public, with MPs spending so much time trashing the result of the 1st ref they devalue the worth of a 2nd one.
    Which is why they wouldn't even vote in a second one. The widespread boycott would destroy any authority a second referendum might try to claim.
    Yes, the truth is Brexit will happen. The Tories only need to win a majority at any point in the future for this to happen unless of course they drop leaving the EU from their manifesto (which seems a long way off). The current remain parliament really should have cut their losses and accepted a deal, but I understand why for political reasons many didn't.
  • Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    One could argue that having a general election is the best way to approximate having a referendum with multiple options.

    The problem there is that the options given aren't very clean.
    For example : You can have a referendum on the Deal if you accept mass nationalisations and higher taxes.
    Or you can have the Deal as long as you accept a dementia tax and loss of school dinners.
    Or you can have revoke if you accept PR for future elections.
    Or No Deal if you accept PM Farage.
    Or Single Market membership if you happen to be in Scotland.
    Well in our system MPs decide it all, that's the gist behind Parliamentary Sovereignty.
    That's the entire problem - that's not apparently the case any more
    The fundamental case of the swivel-eyed loons is that direct democracy is superior to parliamentary democracy, but we absolutely cannot ask the people to fix this with a referendum. So we have to have an election where parties stand for their beliefs but some of those beliefs are undemocratic... because direct democracy is superior to parliament.
    Fucking idiots, the lot of them.
    You really are fucking dumb today aren't you. The point with any democracy whether it is Parliamentary or Direct is that it is only democratic if it is actually listened to and put into effect. Just asking questions and then ignoring the answers is not democracy.
    Not implementing it is exactly the right thing to do if the country no longer wants you to implement it.
    that is not your call to make. Waiting long enough so people might no longer care is again a complete failure of democracy. We are back to you only liking democracy when you are winning
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    No one uses cash these days, malc.
    Bit of an exaggeration.
    Cash is utterly pointless. Get rid.
    You must be very good at DIY ;)
    Nearly all the tradesmen we use prefer bank transfers to cash these days.
    That's because their banks and suppliers have by law to ask them a lot of questions when they present a large pile of niftys. It's a complete nightmare if you're a builder or a used car dealer.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    Boomers did not, in most cases, earn the pensions they are now receiving. That is why most pension schemes have deficits. If the boomers had paid sufficient contributions during their working lives these deficits would not exist.
    Can you explain how people are receiving pensions they didn't earn?
  • Scott_P said:

    Just asking questions and then ignoring the answers is not democracy.

    Of course it is, especially if the question is explicitly advisory
    It was not explicit. Nor does that matter when all the leaders of Remain were saying it was irreversible.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    They think young people will vote for Corbyn, one of UK's leading Brexiteers?

    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1187677262612709376

    So propose an earlier date?

    Or maybe all those Labour MPs don't want to be on the dole for Christmas.....
    Sky News says 5th Dec is out because it clashes with a NATO summit in London.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    It was not explicit.

    It really was. Legally.

    Did the electoral commission not rule that if it had not been legally advisory, it would have been annulled?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    AndyJS said:
    To be fair, the LibDem leadership probably doesn't want to go too far out on a limb compared with the other parties by having a coherent position.
    Your prediction that we were going to see amusing contortions all weekend has been fully borne out.

    I think my current favourite is the government's position: it is so imperative to do Brexit that we're going to go on strike, including preventing any consideration of the Brexit legislation, until everyone else agrees to a general election.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    No one uses cash these days, malc.
    Bit of an exaggeration.
    Cash is utterly pointless. Get rid.
    You must be very good at DIY ;)
    Nearly all the tradesmen we use prefer bank transfers to cash these days.
    That's because their banks and suppliers have by law to ask them a lot of questions when they present a large pile of niftys. It's a complete nightmare if you're a builder or a used car dealer.
    ... and trying to avoid paying tax.

    On the other hand, if you are happy to pay your taxes like employed people have to, it really quite straighforward.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    If there is a government shutdown it will be all about who wins the PR battle about who is to blame, the opposition or Britain Trump.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    edited October 2019
    AndyJS said:

    They think young people will vote for Corbyn, one of UK's leading Brexiteers?

    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1187677262612709376

    So propose an earlier date?

    Or maybe all those Labour MPs don't want to be on the dole for Christmas.....
    Sky News says 5th Dec is out because it clashes with a NATO summit in London.
    Why does it have to be a thursday. Make it the following tuesday
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    No one uses cash these days, malc.
    Bit of an exaggeration.
    Cash is utterly pointless. Get rid.
    I use cash as much as possible because I don't like being told what to do. 20 years ago I probably used cards more than average for the time. (Think I was 16 when I first used them IIRC, although you could use a cash machine card from the age of 14 at that time).
    Use of cash rather than cards and contactless reduces spending quite considerably. Cold hard cash has a meaning quite different to account numbers.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696

    Scott_P said:

    Just asking questions and then ignoring the answers is not democracy.

    Of course it is, especially if the question is explicitly advisory
    It was not explicit. Nor does that matter when all the leaders of Remain were saying it was irreversible.
    True, but the Leave leaders were promoting a 2nd Referendum:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/social-affairs/politics/news/68437/boris-johnson-vote-leave-get-better-eu-deal-britain

    Boris Johnson tonight raised the possibility of Britain still remaining a member of the European Union even if it voted to leave.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/17/leading-eurosceptics-raise-prospect-of-second-eu-referendum-as-p/

    Mr Farage told The Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The EU seem to be getting a lot of criticism but there’s a reason they can’t agree to the duration of the extension until after the vote on Monday .

    If MPs don’t back an election and then Bozo freaks out and says right I’m pulling the WAIB .

    What do the EU do then ? No election and no imminent chance of the deal passing .

    If Bozo does that any goodwill in the EU will disappear completely .

    So I expect another u turn from Bozo , if MPs vote against the election he’ll then have to bring the WAIB back anyway .
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2019
    I don't think something like Brexit should have been the subject of a 50 pence piece. Inappropriate.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    It would be quite funny though :lol:
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    AndyJS said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    Boomers did not, in most cases, earn the pensions they are now receiving. That is why most pension schemes have deficits. If the boomers had paid sufficient contributions during their working lives these deficits would not exist.
    Can you explain how people are receiving pensions they didn't earn?
    Many companies are making deficit contributions (ie paying more into pension schemes than the cost of providing pensions to their current employees). These contributions are to cover payments to past employees and they arise because the contributions paid into schemes in the past (by both employees and employers) were not enough to cover the pensions now being paid to past employees.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    AndyJS said:

    I don't think something like Brexit should have been the subject of a 50 pence piece. Inappropriate.
    I bet a few of the ones that have been minted will find their way onto the market as collectors items.
  • nico67 said:

    The EU seem to be getting a lot of criticism but there’s a reason they can’t agree to the duration of the extension until after the vote on Monday .

    If MPs don’t back an election and then Bozo freaks out and says right I’m pulling the WAIB .

    What do the EU do then ? No election and no imminent chance of the deal passing .

    If Bozo does that any goodwill in the EU will disappear completely .

    So I expect another u turn from Bozo , if MPs vote against the election he’ll then have to bring the WAIB back anyway .

    And if he doesn't we leave with no deal 2 days later because the EU have to respond in writing and the HOC has to agree. Letters lost in post or unexpected delays are increasing no deal considerably
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    Sandpit said:

    They think young people will vote for Corbyn, one of UK's leading Brexiteers?

    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1187677262612709376

    Has anyone ever done a proper analysis* of whether the student vote really matters in aggregate? Clearly it affects individual seats. There are some university marginals but there are also lots of university safe seats - and scattering their student population back to their home towns will change some results in marginal seats there.

    *Assumption: students will vote at the same rate at home or university
    That's an interesting assumption.

    When at university, an election is an 'event' - you can't go anywhere without knowing it's happening, and the ballot box is probably on campus or close by, and voting is easy.

    When everyone is at home for Christmas, there's old friends and family to see, a lot of temporary work to do, parties to attend and a good time to be had. I'm not sure the same numbers are likely to turn out.

    The other issue is that students might not realise in which town they need to be registered, until it's too late to do so. (Yes they can be registered twice, but how many actually are now that individual registration is required?)
    Surely most are resident at their parents when not at Uni, who presumably will be voting themselves?

    I suspect that while altering the distribution of votes, the absolute numbers probably don't shift much when term time or not. I suspect that it varies with the seat. Leicester will be Lab with or without students, but perhaps Loughborough less clear.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    Corbyn's grilling on the Richard and Judy sofa did not go badly for him. He would have been quite plausible to people who don't follow the arguments. But what I felt uncomfortable with was the number of times Judy tried to interject only to be ignored by the two men.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696

    AndyJS said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    Boomers did not, in most cases, earn the pensions they are now receiving. That is why most pension schemes have deficits. If the boomers had paid sufficient contributions during their working lives these deficits would not exist.
    Can you explain how people are receiving pensions they didn't earn?
    Many companies are making deficit contributions (ie paying more into pension schemes than the cost of providing pensions to their current employees). These contributions are to cover payments to past employees and they arise because the contributions paid into schemes in the past (by both employees and employers) were not enough to cover the pensions now being paid to past employees.
    Well put. Similarly, today's Tax and NI payers are having to contribute more than they would otherwise do to fund the triple-locked state retirement pensions.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,003
    edited October 2019
    Golly, BBC Scotland hack tweeting this.

    https://twitter.com/BBCDouglasF/status/1187298776286928897?s=20

    Ruth's free ride press pass has most definitely been REVOKED.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    AndyJS said:

    I don't think something like Brexit should have been the subject of a 50 pence piece. Inappropriate.
    There were commemorative 50 pences when joining (linked hands).
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Maugham is utterly pointless.

    He really should be stripped of his QC status for his abuse of process
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    No one uses cash these days, malc.
    Bit of an exaggeration.
    Cash is utterly pointless. Get rid.
    You must be very good at DIY ;)
    Nearly all the tradesmen we use prefer bank transfers to cash these days.
    That's because their banks and suppliers have by law to ask them a lot of questions when they present a large pile of niftys. It's a complete nightmare if you're a builder or a used car dealer.
    ... and trying to avoid paying tax.

    On the other hand, if you are happy to pay your taxes like employed people have to, it really quite straighforward.
    Whether or not you chose to pay your taxes, has no bearing on the amount of questioning you get when using a large amount of cash. As usual, the law abiding majority have to jump through more hoops because of the few who don't comply voluntarily.

    But yes, the reasoning behind it is to reduce the number of 'invisible' transactions.
  • Oh boy, and labour mps are going to be followed by mock chickens everywhere if they run away. I expect someone will pay someone to be at Corbyn's side daily, much like Brexit Man shouting 'stop brexit'

    This is turning into a total farce
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    edited October 2019

    nico67 said:

    The EU seem to be getting a lot of criticism but there’s a reason they can’t agree to the duration of the extension until after the vote on Monday .

    If MPs don’t back an election and then Bozo freaks out and says right I’m pulling the WAIB .

    What do the EU do then ? No election and no imminent chance of the deal passing .

    If Bozo does that any goodwill in the EU will disappear completely .

    So I expect another u turn from Bozo , if MPs vote against the election he’ll then have to bring the WAIB back anyway .

    And if he doesn't we leave with no deal 2 days later because the EU have to respond in writing and the HOC has to agree. Letters lost in post or unexpected delays are increasing no deal considerably
    The HoC does not have to agree; it can, if asked by the government, reject the EU proposal but it it is not asked the proposal has to be accepted (hence Jo Maugham's tweet).
  • AndyJS said:

    I don't think something like Brexit should have been the subject of a 50 pence piece. Inappropriate.
    Freedom is an extremely appropriate subject for celebration and commemoration.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724

    AndyJS said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fascinating. Thanks.

    About 20 years ago I remember watching a programme on BBC Something in the afternoon and it was these old blokes, all in collar and tie, and patterned cardigans sitting on velour armchairs chatting over tea about funny stuff that happened during the war. Any one of them could have been your favourite great uncle and they were just the sort of folk that the woke generation would have taken the piss out of mercilessly as being old fogeys and out of touch.

    And then the credits rolled and listed the participants and each one of them had at least two or three of an AFC, DFC, DSO, etc. It was the most amazing thing I wish I could remember what prog it was.
    It's this generation's kids, the baby boomers, that the woke lot take the piss out of. The generation that fought in the War are almost all dead now. Boomers are pretty ridiculous, to be fair.
    I detect a lot of green cheese there.
    Qué?
    Envy of the Boomers and their lifestyles/money versus the pathetic snivelling woke one we have now, who want it all on a plate for nothing.
    Boomers worked for their cash.
    Boomers did not, in most cases, earn the pensions they are now receiving. That is why most pension schemes have deficits. If the boomers had paid sufficient contributions during their working lives these deficits would not exist.
    Can you explain how people are receiving pensions they didn't earn?
    Many companies are making deficit contributions (ie paying more into pension schemes than the cost of providing pensions to their current employees). These contributions are to cover payments to past employees and they arise because the contributions paid into schemes in the past (by both employees and employers) were not enough to cover the pensions now being paid to past employees.
    Aren't most pension deficits down to future liabilities (relating to poor interest and annuity rates) rather than current outgoings? As such wouldn't the deficits improve with an interest rate hike?

    If only there was an eminent pensions lawyer about...
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    nico67 said:

    The EU seem to be getting a lot of criticism but there’s a reason they can’t agree to the duration of the extension until after the vote on Monday .

    If MPs don’t back an election and then Bozo freaks out and says right I’m pulling the WAIB .

    What do the EU do then ? No election and no imminent chance of the deal passing .

    If Bozo does that any goodwill in the EU will disappear completely .

    So I expect another u turn from Bozo , if MPs vote against the election he’ll then have to bring the WAIB back anyway .

    And if he doesn't we leave with no deal 2 days later because the EU have to respond in writing and the HOC has to agree. Letters lost in post or unexpected delays are increasing no deal considerably
    The EU ambassadors sign off in writing at their meeting . They don’t need letters from the EU leaders .

    If the EU offer just one month MPs will have no choice but to accept it .
  • nico67 said:

    The EU seem to be getting a lot of criticism but there’s a reason they can’t agree to the duration of the extension until after the vote on Monday .

    If MPs don’t back an election and then Bozo freaks out and says right I’m pulling the WAIB .

    What do the EU do then ? No election and no imminent chance of the deal passing .

    If Bozo does that any goodwill in the EU will disappear completely .

    So I expect another u turn from Bozo , if MPs vote against the election he’ll then have to bring the WAIB back anyway .

    And if he doesn't we leave with no deal 2 days later because the EU have to respond in writing and the HOC has to agree. Letters lost in post or unexpected delays are increasing no deal considerably
    The HoC does not have to agree.
    I think you find it does but I am willing to be corrected if someone can affirm otherwise
  • Scott_P said:

    It was not explicit.

    It really was. Legally.

    Did the electoral commission not rule that if it had not been legally advisory, it would have been annulled?
    Explicit definition:

    "stated clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt."

    Given that all the leaders of Remain were claiming it was irreversible it clearly fails that test straight away.

    So no, it may have legally been the case but it was certainly not explicit.
This discussion has been closed.