Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
coughBoriscoughTelegraphcough
Boris knew he could become PM and also get a 6 figure salary, unlikely for Owen Jones
Has there been any analysis on who a winter election would likely benefit? Snow a possibility, likely rain and stormy weather. Probably low turnout overall. Good for the tories? Cant think many of those who are apathetic/sick of Brexit either way will be enthused by it. Remainers will be motivated as it will be their last ditch effort. Are students still at Uni then? that normally leads to higher turnout in student seats.
On the face of it a winter election seems good for Tories and Lib Dems in England, worse for Labour. Although haven't most winter elections been either won by Labour or resulted in hung parliaments (1974, 1923)?
The Tory route to victory runs through Labour-held constituencies in the north and midlands of England, where turnouts are often relatively low at the best of times.
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
Then why didn’t Boris stay in Journalism? Going into politics is the proper stage if you care about stuff and want to doing something about it. The alternative for Jones is a lifetime stuck in a Trainspotting sequel, never knowing what he could have turned himself into.
If the Tories want a general election, why not get a million people to march through central London to ask for one? Can't think for a moment that they'd be ignored.
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
Then why didn’t Boris stay in Journalism? Going into politics is the proper stage if you care about stuff and want to doing something about it. The alternative for Jones is a lifetime stuck in a Trainspotting sequel, never knowing what he could have turned himself into.
I think most people already know he’s turned himself into the only thing he could have possibly become.
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
coughBoriscoughTelegraphcough
Coughowenjonescoughsocialistcough.
It's not for me to defend Owen Jones or socialism, as I don't like either... but earning a high salary doesn't stop you being a socialist.
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
coughBoriscoughTelegraphcough
Boris knew he could become PM and also get a 6 figure salary, unlikely for Owen Jones
You missed the point. You can do both at the same time.
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
Then why didn’t Boris stay in Journalism? Going into politics is the proper stage if you care about stuff and want to doing something about it. The alternative for Jones is a lifetime stuck in a Trainspotting sequel, never knowing what he could have turned himself into.
I think most people already know he’s turned himself into the only thing he could have possibly become.
You can be successful and be a socialist - its about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. So earn lots, pay tax and national insurance and vote with your conscience. What's the problem?
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
coughBoriscoughTelegraphcough
Coughowenjonescoughsocialistcough.
It's not for me to defend Owen Jones or socialism, as I don't like either... but earning a high salary doesn't stop you being a socialist.
Nor does earning a low salary stop you being a conservative
One thing we did learn from when Red Ken tried to accuse Boris of being a tax dodger, it seems Boris isn't really motivated by looking after the pounds and pence.
He has plenty and due to his laziness / carefree approach, he took no sensible tax efficiency steps that 99.9% of those in a similar position in the media take.
Has there been any analysis on who a winter election would likely benefit? Snow a possibility, likely rain and stormy weather. Probably low turnout overall. Good for the tories? Cant think many of those who are apathetic/sick of Brexit either way will be enthused by it. Remainers will be motivated as it will be their last ditch effort. Are students still at Uni then? that normally leads to higher turnout in student seats.
On the face of it a winter election seems good for Tories and Lib Dems in England, worse for Labour. Although haven't most winter elections been either won by Labour or resulted in hung parliaments (1974, 1923)?
People are more risk averse in the winter, however it is unclear which parties the electorate would view as more risky at the moment.
If the Tories want a general election, why not get a million people to march through central London to ask for one? Can't think for a moment that they'd be ignored.
As we decide things by the ballot box, not by marches
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
Then why didn’t Boris stay in Journalism? Going into politics is the proper stage if you care about stuff and want to doing something about it. The alternative for Jones is a lifetime stuck in a Trainspotting sequel, never knowing what he could have turned himself into.
I think most people already know he’s turned himself into the only thing he could have possibly become.
He’s got talent for sure. His public speaking is very effective, lends itself to the commons. There’s a different level of responsibility to grow into, so much more that can be achieved than just journalism.
You can be successful and be a socialist - its about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. So earn lots, pay tax and national insurance and vote with your conscience. What's the problem?
That's not socialism either. Socialism is about putting ownership of businesses in the hands of the workers. Even Conservatives believe in equality of opportunity.
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
coughBoriscoughTelegraphcough
Coughowenjonescoughsocialistcough.
It's not for me to defend Owen Jones or socialism, as I don't like either... but earning a high salary doesn't stop you being a socialist.
Nor does earning a low salary stop you being a conservative
Of course not. I know quite a few poor and low-earning Conservatives.
If the Tories want a general election, why not get a million people to march through central London to ask for one? Can't think for a moment that they'd be ignored.
As we decide things by the ballot box, not by marches
Oh, ok. We elected our MPs for five years at the ballot box, two years ago... does that count?
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
coughBoriscoughTelegraphcough
Coughowenjonescoughsocialistcough.
It's not for me to defend Owen Jones or socialism, as I don't like either... but earning a high salary doesn't stop you being a socialist.
Nor does earning a low salary stop you being a conservative
Speaking from experience? Or thinking of Alf Garnett
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
Then why didn’t Boris stay in Journalism? Going into politics is the proper stage if you care about stuff and want to doing something about it. The alternative for Jones is a lifetime stuck in a Trainspotting sequel, never knowing what he could have turned himself into.
Arguably Jones has more influence as a columnist, author and campaigner than he would have as a backbench MP (plus he earns more as stated).
Boris was already a multimillionaire when he entered politics so did not need the money and was ruthless enough for the top job and got it
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
I’d be very surprised if he did earn a six figure salary at the Grauniad.
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
coughBoriscoughTelegraphcough
Coughowenjonescoughsocialistcough.
It's not for me to defend Owen Jones or socialism, as I don't like either... but earning a high salary doesn't stop you being a socialist.
Nor does earning a low salary stop you being a conservative
Speaking from experience? Or thinking of Alf Garnett
My salary is a little over average but either way there is now little difference between how the working class and the middle class vote now, fifty years ago pre Thatcher and Blair and Brexit the middle class was strongly Tory and the working class was strongly Labour
You can be successful and be a socialist - its about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. So earn lots, pay tax and national insurance and vote with your conscience. What's the problem?
That's not socialism either. Socialism is about putting ownership of businesses in the hands of the workers. Even Conservatives believe in equality of opportunity.
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
I’d be very surprised if he did earn a six figure salary at the Grauniad.
Don't be daft - of course he does. Even the subs earn £50K.
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
I’d be very surprised if he did earn a six figure salary at the Grauniad.
Even though his base salary might not, I would have thought that in combination with all the other media opportunities that his column brings he makes that.
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
I’d be very surprised if he did earn a six figure salary at the Grauniad.
Polly Toynbee earnt £110 000 a year as a Guardian columnist 8 years ago so I expect he does
You can be successful and be a socialist - its about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. So earn lots, pay tax and national insurance and vote with your conscience. What's the problem?
That's not socialism either. Socialism is about putting ownership of businesses in the hands of the workers. Even Conservatives believe in equality of opportunity.
Bollocks they do.
Correction, some do. Liberal Conservatives do. Tories don't. Tories are scum, but not all Conservatives are Tories. Some Conservatives are really good people.
You can be successful and be a socialist - its about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. So earn lots, pay tax and national insurance and vote with your conscience. What's the problem?
That's not socialism either. Socialism is about putting ownership of businesses in the hands of the workers. Even Conservatives believe in equality of opportunity.
Bollocks they do.
Correction, some do. Liberal Conservatives do. Tories don't. Tories are scum, but not all Conservatives are Tories. Some Conservatives are really good people.
You seem to have gone off the Tory Party even more than I have
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
Then why didn’t Boris stay in Journalism? Going into politics is the proper stage if you care about stuff and want to doing something about it. The alternative for Jones is a lifetime stuck in a Trainspotting sequel, never knowing what he could have turned himself into.
I think most people already know he’s turned himself into the only thing he could have possibly become.
A criminal?
Owen Jones? No not a criminal. Just a bit of a dickhead. Lefties equivalent of Simon Heffer. No more important than a can of baked beans at an Islington dinner party. Although he likes to think he is - the talentless turd that he is.
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
I’d be very surprised if he did earn a six figure salary at the Grauniad.
Polly Toynbee earnt £110 000 a year as a Guardian columnist 8 years ago so I expect he does
Monbiot get £67k and I think he writes less frequently than Jones or Toynbee (I'm not sure, I never ever read Jones or Toynbee columns) Source: https://www.monbiot.com/registry-of-interests/
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
coughBoriscoughTelegraphcough
Coughowenjonescoughsocialistcough.
It's not for me to defend Owen Jones or socialism, as I don't like either... but earning a high salary doesn't stop you being a socialist.
Nor does earning a low salary stop you being a conservative
Speaking from experience? Or thinking of Alf Garnett
My salary is a little over average but either way there is now little difference between how the working class and the middle class vote now, fifty years ago pre Thatcher and Blair and Brexit the middle class was strongly Tory and the working class was strongly Labour
I’m not sure HY. I always thought working class wasn’t strongly Labour but at least 40% voted Tory in Tory deafest but in 50s when they were winning 50% of working class behind them. Two angles on it, working class always been the far bigger portion of society and in fifties and sixties Post war consensus Tory’s very different to the Thatcher party?
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
You can be successful and be a socialist - its about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. So earn lots, pay tax and national insurance and vote with your conscience. What's the problem?
That's not socialism either. Socialism is about putting ownership of businesses in the hands of the workers. Even Conservatives believe in equality of opportunity.
Bollocks they do.
Correction, some do. Liberal Conservatives do. Tories don't. Tories are scum, but not all Conservatives are Tories. Some Conservatives are really good people.
You seem to have gone off the Tory Party even more than I have
The Tories have totally taken over the Conservatives, which is why I am dismayed that anyone would vote for them. Historically, the Conservatives have swung back and forth. My partner used to vote Conservative and I totally get it. Not now, I hasten to add. Brexit has cost them that voter for life.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
What happens `Tuesday will be fascinating. Embarking on the Government on strike, Le Sulk, will be unsustainable so big risk to begin in first place
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
No election = no extension by EU to 31/01.
No election = extension to 15/11 or probably more likely to 30/11.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
Well, he could be honest and admit that he dare not let it be analysed too much or people will notice that it is a dog-t*rd wrapped in Xmas paper rather than a glittering, jewel-encrusted, valuable prize.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
Well, he could be honest and admit that he dare not let it be analysed too much or people will notice that it is a dog-t*rd wrapped in Xmas paper rather than a glittering, jewel-encrusted, valuable prize.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
What happens `Tuesday will be fascinating. Embarking on the Government on strike, Le Sulk, will be unsustainable so big risk to begin in first place
That aspect makes it a no brainer for Labour to decline. Let the government go on strike whilst complaining about delays to Brexit! Get the Labour leavers on every show demanding the deal can be scrutinised and progressed.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
Let us wait on the EU. The length of extension and wording of it is key
Early next week will be very interesting
Boris has laid down the gauntlet, if it is not picked up the opposition will have a price to pay
Why doesn’t Jones Become a Labour MP to actually do something with his life, and growing into that responsibility would be a rite of passage into the next section of it and he would be much better for it.
As he currently earns a 6 figure salary as a Guardian columnist and does not want the pay cut
coughBoriscoughTelegraphcough
Coughowenjonescoughsocialistcough.
It's not for me to defend Owen Jones or socialism, as I don't like either... but earning a high salary doesn't stop you being a socialist.
Nor does earning a low salary stop you being a conservative
Speaking from experience? Or thinking of Alf Garnett
My salary is a little over average but either way there is now little difference between how the working class and the middle class vote now, fifty years ago pre Thatcher and Blair and Brexit the middle class was strongly Tory and the working class was strongly Labour
I’m not sure HY. I always thought working class wasn’t strongly Labour but at least 40% voted Tory in Tory deafest but in 50s when they were winning 50% of working class behind them. Two angles on it, working class always been the far bigger portion of society and in fifties and sixties Post war consensus Tory’s very different to the Thatcher party?
In 1974 under Heath and Wilson and Thorpe ABC1s voted 56% Conservative, 21% Liberal and 19% Labour and C2DEs voted 49% Labour, 26% Conservative and 20% Liberal.
By 1983 and 1987 the Tories were up to 40% with C2DEs.
By 1997 and 2001 Labour were up to 34% with ABC1s.
Thatcher made the Tories more working class, Blair made Labour more middle class (though post Brexit and Corbyn many of the latter have now moved to the LDs)
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
No election = no extension by EU to 31/01.
No election = extension to 15/11 or probably more likely to 30/11.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
Let us wait on the EU. The length of extension and wording of it is key
Early next week will be very interesting
Boris has laid down the gauntlet, if it is not picked up the opposition will have a price to pay
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
No election = no extension by EU to 31/01.
No election = extension to 15/11 or probably more likely to 30/11.
She’s apparently speaking at a big Yes rally next weekend for the first time as First Minister and will be stepping up the campaign for a referendum next year.
You can be successful and be a socialist - its about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. So earn lots, pay tax and national insurance and vote with your conscience. What's the problem?
No, I wouldn't say that Socialism was not about equality of outcome, though certainly equality of opportunity is compatible.
Equality of outcome in terms of everyone having access to decent schools, housing, income, health services and a welfare state that looks after them when they are down on their luck, whether through their own fault or not, are fundamental principles of Socialism .
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
He'll justify it by saying parliament would just delay and wreck it, but that's an admission he cannot pass it.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
Let us wait on the EU. The length of extension and wording of it is key
Early next week will be very interesting
Boris has laid down the gauntlet, if it is not picked up the opposition will have a price to pay
An entirely unrelated point. We ponder hypotheticals all the time, and it's reasonable to speculate, particularly when Boris has told us what he will do if he does not get his election and there is an extension. Heck, it would be unwise to not speculate on whether he will carry out his intentions as he has had them told to us. You dislike people being childish, I am sure, and going on strike and not attempting to Brexit strikes me as a strange way to keep on appealing to people who want Brexit. Yes parliament will mess him about if he tries - and that would help make his point.
You can be successful and be a socialist - its about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. So earn lots, pay tax and national insurance and vote with your conscience. What's the problem?
No, I wouldn't say that Socialism was not about equality of outcome, though certainly equality of opportunity is compatible.
Equality of outcome in terms of everyone having access to decent schools, housing, income, health services and a welfare state that looks after them when they are down on their luck, whether through their own fault or not, are fundamental principles of Socialism .
Can a poor country be socialist if they cant afford to meet those requirements for everyone?
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
Let us wait on the EU. The length of extension and wording of it is key
Early next week will be very interesting
Boris has laid down the gauntlet, if it is not picked up the opposition will have a price to pay
EU lacerated May over the extensions, made her like Oliver with a begging bowl, and then sternly looked down on her saying “and what do you want it for exactly, you have to convince us you will do something with it. Now go and stand outside facing the wall whilst we decide your fate round this laptop.”
I think it’s different now. I think EU now on Parliaments side. They are going to coalesce around Jan 31st smirking behind their hands knowing Boris will have to come back for another one.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
Let us wait on the EU. The length of extension and wording of it is key
Early next week will be very interesting
Boris has laid down the gauntlet, if it is not picked up the opposition will have a price to pay
The EU may decide not to answer for a while yet.
Tuesday at the latest I expect but the more 'games' mps play the more angry the EU will become and I expect Macron to call time and say 30th November is your lot
The choice then is this treaty agreed between the UK and EU, or dare I say it, no deal
You can be successful and be a socialist - its about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. So earn lots, pay tax and national insurance and vote with your conscience. What's the problem?
No, I wouldn't say that Socialism was not about equality of outcome, though certainly equality of opportunity is compatible.
Equality of outcome in terms of everyone having access to decent schools, housing, income, health services and a welfare state that looks after them when they are down on their luck, whether through their own fault or not, are fundamental principles of Socialism .
Can a poor country be socialist if they cant afford to meet those requirements for everyone?
Yes, if that is what they aspire too. Cube is a good example of Socialism limited by poverty.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
He'll justify it by saying parliament would just delay and wreck it, but that's an admission he cannot pass it.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
Let us wait on the EU. The length of extension and wording of it is key
Early next week will be very interesting
Boris has laid down the gauntlet, if it is not picked up the opposition will have a price to pay
An entirely unrelated point. We ponder hypotheticals all the time, and it's reasonable to speculate, particularly when Boris has told us what he will do if he does not get his election and there is an extension. Heck, it would be unwise to not speculate on whether he will carry out his intentions as he has had them told to us. You dislike people being childish, I am sure, and going on strike and not attempting to Brexit strikes me as a strange way to keep on appealing to people who want Brexit. Yes parliament will mess him about if he tries - and that would help make his point.
Strike or sulk, my concern for the Conservatives is how do they return to work if it achieves nothing? Loss of credibility. Shredded poll lead nothing gained.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
He'll justify it by saying parliament would just delay and wreck it, but that's an admission he cannot pass it.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
Let us wait on the EU. The length of extension and wording of it is key
Early next week will be very interesting
Boris has laid down the gauntlet, if it is not picked up the opposition will have a price to pay
An entirely unrelated point. We ponder hypotheticals all the time, and it's reasonable to speculate, particularly when Boris has told us what he will do if he does not get his election and there is an extension. Heck, it would be unwise to not speculate on whether he will carry out his intentions as he has had them told to us. You dislike people being childish, I am sure, and going on strike and not attempting to Brexit strikes me as a strange way to keep on appealing to people who want Brexit. Yes parliament will mess him about if he tries - and that would help make his point.
Strike or sulk, my concern for the Conservatives is how do they return to work if it achieves nothing? Loss of credibility. Shredded poll lead nothing gained.
Tuesday at the latest I expect but the more 'games' mps play the more angry the EU will become and I expect Macron to call time and say 30th November is your lot
The choice then is this treaty agreed between the UK and EU, or dare I say it, no deal
What? The Game Player in this scenario is Boris and his sidekick Wormtongue. All that Parliament is doing is Taking Back Control (remember that phrase?) and holding the Executive to account.
Your nose is just out of joint because the Deal might not survive, just like the Conservative's electoral ambitions.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
He'll justify it by saying parliament would just delay and wreck it, but that's an admission he cannot pass it.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
Let us wait on the EU. The length of extension and wording of it is key
Early next week will be very interesting
Boris has laid down the gauntlet, if it is not picked up the opposition will have a price to pay
An entirely unrelated point. We ponder hypotheticals all the time, and it's reasonable to speculate, particularly when Boris has told us what he will do if he does not get his election and there is an extension. Heck, it would be unwise to not speculate on whether he will carry out his intentions as he has had them told to us. You dislike people being childish, I am sure, and going on strike and not attempting to Brexit strikes me as a strange way to keep on appealing to people who want Brexit. Yes parliament will mess him about if he tries - and that would help make his point.
I am not in awe over Boris and do cringe at his childish ways and I agree taking away your bat and ball is not the best way to win friends and influence people
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
Let us wait on the EU. The length of extension and wording of it is key
Early next week will be very interesting
Boris has laid down the gauntlet, if it is not picked up the opposition will have a price to pay
The EU may decide not to answer for a while yet.
Tuesday at the latest I expect but the more 'games' mps play the more angry the EU will become and I expect Macron to call time and say 30th November is your lot
The choice then is this treaty agreed between the UK and EU, or dare I say it, no deal
No deal has always been the default and unless the children in Parliament wise up, that's where we'll wind up. They really are a bunch of arseholes
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
Well, he could be honest and admit that he dare not let it be analysed too much or people will notice that it is a dog-t*rd wrapped in Xmas paper rather than a glittering, jewel-encrusted, valuable prize.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
He'll justify it by saying parliament would just delay and wreck it, but that's an admission he cannot pass it.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
Let us wait on the EU. The length of extension and wording of it is key
Early next week will be very interesting
Boris has laid down the gauntlet, if it is not picked up the opposition will have a price to pay
An entirely unrelated point. We ponder hypotheticals all the time, and it's reasonable to speculate, particularly when Boris has told us what he will do if he does not get his election and there is an extension. Heck, it would be unwise to not speculate on whether he will carry out his intentions as he has had them told to us. You dislike people being childish, I am sure, and going on strike and not attempting to Brexit strikes me as a strange way to keep on appealing to people who want Brexit. Yes parliament will mess him about if he tries - and that would help make his point.
Strike or sulk, my concern for the Conservatives is how do they return to work if it achieves nothing? Loss of credibility. Shredded poll lead nothing gained.
You may be right and this is a high stakes gamble where the winner takes it all
Tuesday at the latest I expect but the more 'games' mps play the more angry the EU will become and I expect Macron to call time and say 30th November is your lot
The choice then is this treaty agreed between the UK and EU, or dare I say it, no deal
What? The Game Player in this scenario is Boris and his sidekick Wormtongue. All that Parliament is doing is Taking Back Control (remember that phrase?) and holding the Executive to account.
Your nose is just out of joint because the Deal might not survive, just like the Conservative's electoral ambitions.
If it is flexstension to 31st Jan with everyone knowing Boris has to go back then for yet another one, cons v brex in polls will be interesting.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
He'll justify it by saying parliament would just delay and wreck it, but that's an admission he cannot pass it.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
Let us wait on the EU. The length of extension and wording of it is key
Early next week will be very interesting
Boris has laid down the gauntlet, if it is not picked up the opposition will have a price to pay
An entirely unrelated point. We ponder hypotheticals all the time, and it's reasonable to speculate, particularly when Boris has told us what he will do if he does not get his election and there is an extension. Heck, it would be unwise to not speculate on whether he will carry out his intentions as he has had them told to us. You dislike people being childish, I am sure, and going on strike and not attempting to Brexit strikes me as a strange way to keep on appealing to people who want Brexit. Yes parliament will mess him about if he tries - and that would help make his point.
Strike or sulk, my concern for the Conservatives is how do they return to work if it achieves nothing? Loss of credibility. Shredded poll lead nothing gained.
You may be right and this is a high stakes gamble where the winner takes it all
Can you see how the strike gets a successful result, and a failure of the strike not being disastrous?
Tuesday at the latest I expect but the more 'games' mps play the more angry the EU will become and I expect Macron to call time and say 30th November is your lot
The choice then is this treaty agreed between the UK and EU, or dare I say it, no deal
What? The Game Player in this scenario is Boris and his sidekick Wormtongue. All that Parliament is doing is Taking Back Control (remember that phrase?) and holding the Executive to account.
Your nose is just out of joint because the Deal might not survive, just like the Conservative's electoral ambitions.
Not at all.
If a GE gives Boris a majority brexit happens but if it creates a remain majority a second referendum happens and you may be surprised, but for me this abject and bankrupt Parliament is over and the new one will reflect the will of the people and that makes me content
Tuesday at the latest I expect but the more 'games' mps play the more angry the EU will become and I expect Macron to call time and say 30th November is your lot
The choice then is this treaty agreed between the UK and EU, or dare I say it, no deal
What? The Game Player in this scenario is Boris and his sidekick Wormtongue. All that Parliament is doing is Taking Back Control (remember that phrase?) and holding the Executive to account.
Your nose is just out of joint because the Deal might not survive, just like the Conservative's electoral ambitions.
Not at all.
If a GE gives Boris a majority brexit happens but if it creates a remain majority a second referendum happens and you may be surprised, but for me this abject and bankrupt Parliament is over and the new one will reflect the will of the people and that makes me content
I am a democrat
I think this parliament has done a wonderful job, because I too am a democrat and the thought of the destructive cabal in Downing St being allowed unfettered power to wreck the country is not something I could agree to.
Boris, IMO, is not a democratic leader, does not believe in democracy and, AFAICS, is only interested in feathering his own nest.
Tuesday at the latest I expect but the more 'games' mps play the more angry the EU will become and I expect Macron to call time and say 30th November is your lot
The choice then is this treaty agreed between the UK and EU, or dare I say it, no deal
What? The Game Player in this scenario is Boris and his sidekick Wormtongue. All that Parliament is doing is Taking Back Control (remember that phrase?) and holding the Executive to account.
Your nose is just out of joint because the Deal might not survive, just like the Conservative's electoral ambitions.
Not at all.
If a GE gives Boris a majority brexit happens but if it creates a remain majority a second referendum happens and you may be surprised, but for me this abject and bankrupt Parliament is over and the new one will reflect the will of the people and that makes me content
I am a democrat
I think this parliament has done a wonderful job, because I too am a democrat and the thought of the destructive cabal in Downing St being allowed unfettered power to wreck the country is not something I could agree to.
Boris, IMO, is not a democratic leader, does not believe in democracy and, AFAICS, is only interested in feathering his own nest.
I know you dislike him intensly but the argument in your last sentence is invalid if he wins a GE
Perhaps media are ramping it. It seems pretty unequivocal those backing GE this time are big minority in Labour. Also Corbyn saying rule out No Deal for our support and instruction for ‘labour to abstain are both clear enough to box them in even if they did want to back it. SNP and Libdems made clear statements against it as well this evening, and they both got something to gain.
It seems to me noises earlier in day flirted with backing it, Boris surprised everyone later, and then the move hardened against it at tea time leaving some media reports slow to catch up.
The other thing we haven’t heard much of since Boris interviews are the divisions in Tories over Cummings latest wheeze. How did the cabinet vote? There were many Tories yesterday and today saying deal must be firmed up before election not other way around, and or election risky without deal in place. They all went quiet after his interviews...
Tuesday at the latest I expect but the more 'games' mps play the more angry the EU will become and I expect Macron to call time and say 30th November is your lot
The choice then is this treaty agreed between the UK and EU, or dare I say it, no deal
What? The Game Player in this scenario is Boris and his sidekick Wormtongue. All that Parliament is doing is Taking Back Control (remember that phrase?) and holding the Executive to account.
Your nose is just out of joint because the Deal might not survive, just like the Conservative's electoral ambitions.
Not at all.
If a GE gives Boris a majority brexit happens but if it creates a remain majority a second referendum happens and you may be surprised, but for me this abject and bankrupt Parliament is over and the new one will reflect the will of the people and that makes me content
I am a democrat
I think this parliament has done a wonderful job, because I too am a democrat and the thought of the destructive cabal in Downing St being allowed unfettered power to wreck the country is not something I could agree to.
Boris, IMO, is not a democratic leader, does not believe in democracy and, AFAICS, is only interested in feathering his own nest.
I know you dislike him intensly but the argument in your last sentence is invalid if he wins a GE
And ignores the fact it is Parliament blocking the Leave vote, not Boris and the voters know that as the polling still shows
Perhaps media are ramping it. It seems pretty unequivocal those backing GE this time are big minority in Labour. Also Corbyn saying rule out No Deal for our support and instruction for ‘labour to abstain are both clear enough to box them in even if they did want to back it. SNP and Libdems made clear statements against it as well this evening, and they both got something to gain.
It seems to me noises earlier in day flirted with backing it, Boris surprised everyone later, and then the move hardened against it at tea time leaving some media reports slow to catch up.
The other thing we haven’t heard much of since Boris interviews are the divisions in Tories over Cummings latest wheeze. How did the cabinet vote? There were many Tories yesterday and today saying deal must be firmed up before election not other way around, and or election risky without deal in place. They all went quiet after his interviews...
I think that is fair but this is a fast moving and changing story
Tuesday at the latest I expect but the more 'games' mps play the more angry the EU will become and I expect Macron to call time and say 30th November is your lot
The choice then is this treaty agreed between the UK and EU, or dare I say it, no deal
What? The Game Player in this scenario is Boris and his sidekick Wormtongue. All that Parliament is doing is Taking Back Control (remember that phrase?) and holding the Executive to account.
Your nose is just out of joint because the Deal might not survive, just like the Conservative's electoral ambitions.
Not at all.
If a GE gives Boris a majority brexit happens but if it creates a remain majority a second referendum happens and you may be surprised, but for me this abject and bankrupt Parliament is over and the new one will reflect the will of the people and that makes me content
I am a democrat
I think this parliament has done a wonderful job, because I too am a democrat and the thought of the destructive cabal in Downing St being allowed unfettered power to wreck the country is not something I could agree to.
Boris, IMO, is not a democratic leader, does not believe in democracy and, AFAICS, is only interested in feathering his own nest.
I know you dislike him intensly but the argument in your last sentence is invalid if he wins a GE
No it is not. He could win an election and still be all of those things. Any route to power is acceptable. If enough people are daft enough to vote for him then he may gain power via democracy but that will not make him believe in it.
IMO, Boris only believes in Boris. That is why he is so dangerous.
Assuming Labour call Johnsons bluff, and dont go for the December election, how on earth is he going to justify not bringing back the deal to parliament? It is simply unsustainable.
Well, he could be honest and admit that he dare not let it be analysed too much or people will notice that it is a dog-t*rd wrapped in Xmas paper rather than a glittering, jewel-encrusted, valuable prize.
Which the EU agreed and co-wrote.
To their advantage, not ours.
Did Boris get anything from the negotiation? He’s getting a lot of praise for getting a deal against the odds, but even May could have achieved this WA with the ground he gave away. Did he get very much in return, or was it all about striking in the flush of apparent triumph before it starts to unravel?
Perhaps media are ramping it. It seems pretty unequivocal those backing GE this time are big minority in Labour. Also Corbyn saying rule out No Deal for our support and instruction for ‘labour to abstain are both clear enough to box them in even if they did want to back it. SNP and Libdems made clear statements against it as well this evening, and they both got something to gain.
It seems to me noises earlier in day flirted with backing it, Boris surprised everyone later, and then the move hardened against it at tea time leaving some media reports slow to catch up.
The other thing we haven’t heard much of since Boris interviews are the divisions in Tories over Cummings latest wheeze. How did the cabinet vote? There were many Tories yesterday and today saying deal must be firmed up before election not other way around, and or election risky without deal in place. They all went quiet after his interviews...
I think that is fair but this is a fast moving and changing story
Thanks Big G. The next part of the story could be signs of Tory dissent against Cummings plan in coming days? Cummings going, and the WAB brought back instead of the Strike? Or will the main Cummings backlash come after the vote failure Monday?
Boris only needs about 90 labour mps to vote for it. If Corbyn confirms he has to whip his mps so it should pass easily
That ninety figure not dependent on any Conservative, Lib Dem and SNP abstentions?
Will there be no Conservative abstentions on Monday?
Chuka sounded tempted on Newsnight (also said there's no chance of this Parliament voting for a second referendum which seemed significant)
And there’s people in all parties making quite the opposite noises. Black ford on C4 not voting for it. Swinson not falling for this diversionary tactic, Corbyn clearly tying his support to No deal clearly off the table, though he couldn’t answer how.
Perhaps media are ramping it. It seems pretty unequivocal those backing GE this time are big minority in Labour. Also Corbyn saying rule out No Deal for our support and instruction for ‘labour to abstain are both clear enough to box them in even if they did want to back it. SNP and Libdems made clear statements against it as well this evening, and they both got something to gain.
It seems to me noises earlier in day flirted with backing it, Boris surprised everyone later, and then the move hardened against it at tea time leaving some media reports slow to catch up.
The other thing we haven’t heard much of since Boris interviews are the divisions in Tories over Cummings latest wheeze. How did the cabinet vote? There were many Tories yesterday and today saying deal must be firmed up before election not other way around, and or election risky without deal in place. They all went quiet after his interviews...
I think that is fair but this is a fast moving and changing story
Thanks Big G. The next part of the story could be signs of Tory dissent against Cummings plan in coming days? Cummings going, and the WAB brought back instead of the Strike? Or will the main Cummings backlash come after the vote failure Monday?
So many questions but I think tonight Boris knows he has put the cat among the pidgeons big time
I hope in all this we can all be civil to one another and debate honestly and backing our corner but try to keep a lid on emotions that are going to boil over from all sides
And as my battery is going I wish you and all posters a good night
Perhaps media are ramping it. It seems pretty unequivocal those backing GE this time are big minority in Labour. Also Corbyn saying rule out No Deal for our support and instruction for ‘labour to abstain are both clear enough to box them in even if they did want to back it. SNP and Libdems made clear statements against it as well this evening, and they both got something to gain.
It seems to me noises earlier in day flirted with backing it, Boris surprised everyone later, and then the move hardened against it at tea time leaving some media reports slow to catch up.
The other thing we haven’t heard much of since Boris interviews are the divisions in Tories over Cummings latest wheeze. How did the cabinet vote? There were many Tories yesterday and today saying deal must be firmed up before election not other way around, and or election risky without deal in place. They all went quiet after his interviews...
I think that is fair but this is a fast moving and changing story
Thanks Big G. The next part of the story could be signs of Tory dissent against Cummings plan in coming days? Cummings going, and the WAB brought back instead of the Strike? Or will the main Cummings backlash come after the vote failure Monday?
So many questions but I think tonight Boris knows he has put the cat among the pidgeons big time
I hope in all this we can all be civil to one another and debate honestly and backing our corner but try to keep a lid on emotions that are going to boil over from all sides
And as my battery is going I wish you and all posters a good night
Comments
He has plenty and due to his laziness / carefree approach, he took no sensible tax efficiency steps that 99.9% of those in a similar position in the media take.
Also NHS may become a bigger issue than normal.
There’s a different level of responsibility to grow into, so much more that can be achieved than just journalism.
Or thinking of Alf Garnett
Boris was already a multimillionaire when he entered politics so did not need the money and was ruthless enough for the top job and got it
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8739482/Polly-Toynbee-finally-admits-what-she-earns.html
Source: https://www.monbiot.com/registry-of-interests/
My partner used to vote Conservative and I totally get it. Not now, I hasten to add. Brexit has cost them that voter for life.
No election = extension to 15/11 or probably more likely to 30/11.
Early next week will be very interesting
Boris has laid down the gauntlet, if it is not picked up the opposition will have a price to pay
By 1983 and 1987 the Tories were up to 40% with C2DEs.
By 1997 and 2001 Labour were up to 34% with ABC1s.
Thatcher made the Tories more working class, Blair made Labour more middle class (though post Brexit and Corbyn many of the latter have now moved to the LDs)
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-october-1974
Equality of outcome in terms of everyone having access to decent schools, housing, income, health services and a welfare state that looks after them when they are down on their luck, whether through their own fault or not, are fundamental principles of Socialism .
I think it’s different now. I think EU now on Parliaments side. They are going to coalesce around Jan 31st smirking behind their hands knowing Boris will have to come back for another one.
The winner from this. Farage at Boris expense.
The choice then is this treaty agreed between the UK and EU, or dare I say it, no deal
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1187500490562703366
Luckily they haven't been calling for a GE for months, to distract from their shambolic position on Brexit.
Your nose is just out of joint because the Deal might not survive, just like the Conservative's electoral ambitions.
There has to be another way. Bring back the WAB.
Momentums up for it
https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1187401240633843712
If a GE gives Boris a majority brexit happens but if it creates a remain majority a second referendum happens and you may be surprised, but for me this abject and bankrupt Parliament is over and the new one will reflect the will of the people and that makes me content
I am a democrat
Boris, IMO, is not a democratic leader, does not believe in democracy and, AFAICS, is only interested in feathering his own nest.
It seems pretty unequivocal those backing GE this time are big minority in Labour. Also Corbyn saying rule out No Deal for our support and instruction for ‘labour to abstain are both clear enough to box them in even if they did want to back it.
SNP and Libdems made clear statements against it as well this evening, and they both got something to gain.
It seems to me noises earlier in day flirted with backing it, Boris surprised everyone later, and then the move hardened against it at tea time leaving some media reports slow to catch up.
The other thing we haven’t heard much of since Boris interviews are the divisions in Tories over Cummings latest wheeze. How did the cabinet vote? There were many Tories yesterday and today saying deal must be firmed up before election not other way around, and or election risky without deal in place. They all went quiet after his interviews...
Will there be no Conservative abstentions on Monday?
IMO, Boris only believes in Boris. That is why he is so dangerous.
Cummings going, and the WAB brought back instead of the Strike?
Or will the main Cummings backlash come after the vote failure Monday?
I hope in all this we can all be civil to one another and debate honestly and backing our corner but try to keep a lid on emotions that are going to boil over from all sides
And as my battery is going I wish you and all posters a good night
But not enough MPs support it ...