The only rule of post-referendum Brexit appears to be that every time you think you've reached the point where it will be decided...it subsequently isn't.
Evidence based policy is needed more than ever in criminal justice, but 'Hangman' Patel shows her true ignorant reactionary colours.
What an awful Home Secretary we have indeed.
Yes absolutely. It's a complete joke that her dishonesty and incompetence has landed her a significant promotion. All of Boris' other picks are sensible, albeit not politicians I like.
Good morning everybody. Maybe things will turn out better than many of us fear.
Then again, maybe they won't. Only trouble is, as is well known, struggling in a swamp only drags one further down. The way out is to stay still and call for help! But who is likely to throw us a rope to grasp?
Evidence based policy is needed more than ever in criminal justice, but 'Hangman' Patel shows her true ignorant reactionary colours.
What an awful Home Secretary we have indeed.
Yes absolutely. It's a complete joke that her dishonesty and incompetence has landed her a significant promotion. All of Boris' other picks are sensible, albeit not politicians I like.
She was chosen for the current moment. She is one of the Spartans and as such may have some influence over them in selling a deal.
Evidence based policy is needed more than ever in criminal justice, but 'Hangman' Patel shows her true ignorant reactionary colours.
What an awful Home Secretary we have indeed.
Yes absolutely. It's a complete joke that her dishonesty and incompetence has landed her a significant promotion. All of Boris' other picks are sensible, albeit not politicians I like.
I'm not sure that Boris's apppointment of Gavin Williamson as the Education Secretary proves much better, whilst I applaud his Yorkshire education - I'm not sure his track record at Defence qualifies him for the job...
Evidence based policy is needed more than ever in criminal justice, but 'Hangman' Patel shows her true ignorant reactionary colours.
What an awful Home Secretary we have indeed.
Yes absolutely. It's a complete joke that her dishonesty and incompetence has landed her a significant promotion. All of Boris' other picks are sensible, albeit not politicians I like.
I'm not sure that Boris's apppointment of Gavin Williamson as the Education Secretary proves much better, whilst I applaud his Yorkshire education - I'm not sure his track record at Defence qualifies him for the job...
And Raab as foreign secretary? Mr Dover-Calais himself? Not sure that many of Boris's picks stand up. It's almost as threadbare as the Labour front bench.
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
You mean like those who fought for years to overturn the 1975 European referendum
I’m sure a commentator as learned as you can recognise that the EC in 1975 was pretty different to the EU of 2019, as was the make up of the electorate. But good idea, I agree with you. Let’s say no new revote for 41 years.
Evidence based policy is needed more than ever in criminal justice, but 'Hangman' Patel shows her true ignorant reactionary colours.
What an awful Home Secretary we have indeed.
Yes absolutely. It's a complete joke that her dishonesty and incompetence has landed her a significant promotion. All of Boris' other picks are sensible, albeit not politicians I like.
I'm not sure that Boris's apppointment of Gavin Williamson as the Education Secretary proves much better, whilst I applaud his Yorkshire education - I'm not sure his track record at Defence qualifies him for the job...
And Raab as foreign secretary? Mr Dover-Calais himself? Not sure that many of Boris's picks stand up. It's almost as threadbare as the Labour front bench.
Sajid is fine. Raab is OK. Williamson is an idiot. Patel is a poor choice for Home Secretary.
Ultimately, it's not really a government of all the talents, more of a government of people who supported Boris's bid for leadership of the Conservative Party.
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.
Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
That would be confusing, because a bunch of people who cannot secure themselves a brexit after three years of trying, even when they have s referendum result in their favour, satisfy many definitions of "loser".
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.
Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
Sorry, I hadn’t realised it was my job to create a consensus about how to leave. I had rather hoped that the 650 MPs that I outsource running the country to would do that for me.
Evidence based policy is needed more than ever in criminal justice, but 'Hangman' Patel shows her true ignorant reactionary colours.
What an awful Home Secretary we have indeed.
Yes absolutely. It's a complete joke that her dishonesty and incompetence has landed her a significant promotion. All of Boris' other picks are sensible, albeit not politicians I like.
I'm not sure that Boris's apppointment of Gavin Williamson as the Education Secretary proves much better, whilst I applaud his Yorkshire education - I'm not sure his track record at Defence qualifies him for the job...
And Raab as foreign secretary? Mr Dover-Calais himself? Not sure that many of Boris's picks stand up. It's almost as threadbare as the Labour front bench.
That's where you have to distinguish between a media gaffe and actually being terrible. Raab is a very smart man. A close leftie friend who worked for him at justice described him as brilliant, but not a particularly nice boss.
Williamson to be fair is clearly a disaster and deserves to be in the same category as Patel (is he still demanding the police investigate himself I wonder!?).
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.
Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
Sorry, I hadn’t realised it was my job to create a consensus about how to leave. I had rather hoped that the 650 MPs that I outsource running the country to would do that for me.
Not about how to, about whether to. That is the job of the winners, to show the losers that their vision includes them. Instead, Leavers have spent the last three years in increasing paranoia, imposing steadily more stringent purity tests and accusing doubters of being quislings, traitors and, in your case, doubting their mental health.
Oddly this has not led to a consensus for Brexit, despite its mandate: if anything, the whole idea is losing support.
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.
Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
Sorry, I hadn’t realised it was my job to create a consensus about how to leave. I had rather hoped that the 650 MPs that I outsource running the country to would do that for me.
Not about how to, about whether to. That is the job of the winners, to show the losers that their vision includes them. Instead, Leavers have spent the last three years in increasing paranoia, imposing steadily more stringent purity tests and accusing doubters of being quislings, traitors and, in your case, doubting their mental health.
Oddly this has not led to a consensus for Brexit, despite its mandate: if anything, the whole idea is losing support.
Ah yes, for some reason you were triggered when I expressed the same concerns raised by various mental health charities and several MPs themselves.
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
Surely the wording of a 'confirmatory referendum', by definition, has to be of the form "Should we do this, yes or no?", with no being left open for debate afterwards?
However, most of those pushing for a second referendum appear to be of the opinion that it should be between the option that was rejected by the people three years ago, and the option that was rejected three times by Parliament earlier this year.
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.
Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
Sorry, I hadn’t realised it was my job to create a consensus about how to leave. I had rather hoped that the 650 MPs that I outsource running the country to would do that for me.
Not about how to, about whether to. That is the job of the winners, to show the losers that their vision includes them. Instead, Leavers have spent the last three years in increasing paranoia, imposing steadily more stringent purity tests and accusing doubters of being quislings, traitors and, in your case, doubting their mental health.
Oddly this has not led to a consensus for Brexit, despite its mandate: if anything, the whole idea is losing support.
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
Surely the wording of a 'confirmatory referendum', by definition, has to be of the form "Should we do this, yes or no?", with no being left open for debate afterwards?
However, most of those pushing for a second referendum appear to be of the opinion that it should be between the option that was rejected by the people three years ago, and the option that was rejected three times by Parliament earlier this year.
Both options need to be immediately capable of implementation.
The reason Remain needs to be on any fresh referendum is because it is by far the most popular single option in every poll on the subject. Excluding it would be a democratic atrocity.
Mr. Meeks, if it goes to a second referendum I'd be astounded if Remain lost (versus a Deal option).
The question is: will MPs go for one?
Ironic that Corbyn's the greatest ally hardline Leavers have.
I'd say 60/40 chances of Remain winning.
I think Corbyn may actually turn out to be the man who stopped Brexit. A more competent and professional Labour leader wouldn't have been 20 pts down in the polls, and therefore wouldn't have tempted May into an earlier election.
Mr. rkrkrk, ah, but a more competent Labour leader would've also actually campaigned for us to Remain to start with, and I'd contend that would've made the difference.
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
Surely the wording of a 'confirmatory referendum', by definition, has to be of the form "Should we do this, yes or no?", with no being left open for debate afterwards?
However, most of those pushing for a second referendum appear to be of the opinion that it should be between the option that was rejected by the people three years ago, and the option that was rejected three times by Parliament earlier this year.
There is only one reason for another referendum- for remainers to try and muddy the waters, cause more chaos and hold the country back from getting on with things.
The EU isn’t offering a referendum on the deal to its citizens- surely remainers want to align with the EU method of doing things.
The soft coup inside Labour is fascinating. Corbyn really does seem to have been sidelined. He is leader in name only. And is probably quite happy with that.
Key events need to be scheduled even if an election announcement may later scupper them.
My first question is what will Boris do or announce on the 5th / 6th that will completely overshadow the budget.
More likely is that the Budget contains a pile of popular tax cuts (Basic rate to 18% maybe?), so that the government can dare the opposition to vote it down. Right now they don't have anything close to a majority, and voting down the budget will be cause for resignation (if they even get past the Queen's Speech vote without resigning).
Boris imo still needs the election to be held in the window between Brexit being agreed, and Brexit proving a disaster. This brings us back to the price table at the top of this thread, with extending Article 50 being 2/7 favourite.
FPT - I’ve only just caught up with Cyclefree’s superb thread. Truly excellent stuff and I agree entirely.
Bravo.
The astonishing thing about the whole scandal is that even someone as politically interested as @NickPalmer was honest enough to admit not being aware of the details of the Henriques report.
Something which ought to rock the police establishment has passed almost unnoticed.
Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...
To be fair, they were two of the greatest marathon running performances of all time over the weekend!
While Mercedes' achievement of six consecutive double titles is also an amazing record, it doesn't quite have the same human interest as the two hour marathon finally being cracked after decades of trying, and a women's world (and British) record that has stood for sixteen years being obliterated only a day later.
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
Surely the wording of a 'confirmatory referendum', by definition, has to be of the form "Should we do this, yes or no?", with no being left open for debate afterwards?
However, most of those pushing for a second referendum appear to be of the opinion that it should be between the option that was rejected by the people three years ago, and the option that was rejected three times by Parliament earlier this year.
Both options need to be immediately capable of implementation.
The reason Remain needs to be on any fresh referendum is because it is by far the most popular single option in every poll on the subject. Excluding it would be a democratic atrocity.
Remain was also popular on polls prior to the Referendum. The democratic atrocity would be asking the same question again before it has been implemented from the first time.
If it is a confirmatory referendum then the result of a no vote should be leaving with No Deal.
Mr. rkrkrk, ah, but a more competent Labour leader would've also actually campaigned for us to Remain to start with, and I'd contend that would've made the difference.
Hard to know. My suspicion is that Corbyn's approach of admitting faults with the EU might have reduced the Labour leave vote. Certainly I think the fact he was leading Labour reduced the risk of a larger Lexit campaign.
In any case, the Labour leave vote is estimated around 3-3.5m (based on 2017 Labour vote). Many of those of course didn't vote Labour in 2015.
A hypothetical Labour leader would have needed to persuade 20-25% of those to change their mind and back Remain. Not impossible, but it seems a bit of a tall order, when you consider how engrained opinions on Brexit seem to be.
Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...
Been a big weekend for marathons.
Plus, which is more interesting? I could drive a F1 car as fast as Hamilton (OK, except round the corners). I doubt I could do half a Kosgei or Kipchoge speed, even on the straight bits.
Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know
Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution
32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical
Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not
So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain
16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem
The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
Surely the wording of a 'confirmatory referendum', by definition, has to be of the form "Should we do this, yes or no?", with no being left open for debate afterwards?
However, most of those pushing for a second referendum appear to be of the opinion that it should be between the option that was rejected by the people three years ago, and the option that was rejected three times by Parliament earlier this year.
There is only one reason for another referendum- for remainers to try and muddy the waters, cause more chaos and hold the country back from getting on with things.
The EU isn’t offering a referendum on the deal to its citizens- surely remainers want to align with the EU method of doing things.
What's becoming clearer all the time is that Brexiteers got lucky by nefarious means and achieved a small victory three and a quarter years ago. They will now do anything to hold onto that in the face of evidence that they have been rumbled and would not be able to repeat it.
Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...
Been a big weekend for marathons.
Plus, which is more interesting? I could drive a F1 car as fast as Hamilton (OK, except round the corners). I doubt I could do half a Kosgei or Kipchoge speed, even on the straight bits.
Kipchoge's average speed was 13.1mph, which is faster than most people can run 100m - even fit amateur athletes can't keep up that pace for more than a minute or so.
Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know
Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution
32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical
Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not
So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain
16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem
The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero
Only 14% hope negotiations find another solution? I'd be amongst that 14% though I'm ok with no deal if they can't.
Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know
Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution
32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical
Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not
So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain
16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem
The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero
That's a very good poll for the government, surprisingly so.
Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...
Been a big weekend for marathons.
Plus, which is more interesting? I could drive a F1 car as fast as Hamilton (OK, except round the corners). I doubt I could do half a Kosgei or Kipchoge speed, even on the straight bits.
Kipchoge's average speed was 13.1mph, which is faster than most people can run 100m - even fit amateur athletes can't keep up that pace for more than a minute or so.
Truly astounding. I remember reading somewhere that Usain Bolt may never have run a mile in his life, given he is geared to sprinting, but to consider someone can consistently run at regular person sprinting speed for 2 hours, well, its remarkable what the human body can manage.
Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...
Been a big weekend for marathons.
Plus, which is more interesting? I could drive a F1 car as fast as Hamilton (OK, except round the corners). I doubt I could do half a Kosgei or Kipchoge speed, even on the straight bits.
Kipchoge's average speed was 13.1mph, which is faster than most people can run 100m - even fit amateur athletes can't keep up that pace for more than a minute or so.
Truly astounding. I remember reading somewhere that Usain Bolt may never have run a mile in his life, given he is geared to sprinting, but to consider someone can consistently run at regular person sprinting speed for 2 hours, well, its remarkable what the human body can manage.
I think he's faster than most regular people's sprinting speed.
Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know
Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution
32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical
Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not
So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain
16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem
The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero
The government's PR operation has been as effective as one might have expected. The only effective argument against Brexit will be Brexit, unfortunately, and by then it will be too late. I've given up on this country, it doesn't merit me giving a shit what happens to it.
Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know
Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution
32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical
Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not
So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain
16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem
The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero
The government's PR operation has been as effective as one might have expected. The only effective argument against Brexit will be Brexit, unfortunately, and by then it will be too late. I've given up on this country, it doesn't merit me giving a shit what happens to it.
I think you do to be fair but this poll confounds a wide consensus that the public never voted for no deal and it seems the EU is losing the blame game
Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know
Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution
32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical
Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not
So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain
16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem
The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero
Indeed, if a Brexit Deal is not agreed this week voters now prefer No Deal to further extension
Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know
Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution
32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical
Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not
So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain
16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem
The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero
The government's PR operation has been as effective as one might have expected. The only effective argument against Brexit will be Brexit, unfortunately, and by then it will be too late. I've given up on this country, it doesn't merit me giving a shit what happens to it.
I'm not surprised Sky News' poll is like this. They are not really impartial with their news broadcasts and opinions. (A milder form of Fox News). Yougov may be impartial, but I'm sure the sample would have been skewed to Skynews viewers and therefore partial.
On another issue, Channel 5 are supposed to be running a poll about which kind of deal/no deal people prefer.
Are these news agencies scared of asking the obvious question? Shall we Remain or stay? Or are the paymasters scared of the result?
Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know
Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution
32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical
Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not
So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain
16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem
The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero
Indeed, if a Brexit Deal is not agreed this week voters now prefer No Deal to further extension
FPT - I’ve only just caught up with Cyclefree’s superb thread. Truly excellent stuff and I agree entirely.
Bravo.
The astonishing thing about the whole scandal is that even someone as politically interested as @NickPalmer was honest enough to admit not being aware of the details of the Henriques report.
Something which ought to rock the police establishment has passed almost unnoticed.
Agreed. Aided by the fact that today’s QS will contain a load of incoherent nonsense about law ‘n’ order. Take two points: ensuring that serious criminals are not released halfway through their sentence. This is already the case.
Second, the budget on the entire justice system has been cut by 40%. That is why courts are shutting, people are waiting over a year for trials, judges are sitting idle etc. The recent spending statement only increased the current budget by 5%.
Remember this when the Tory fan boys start praising all the QS promises made today.
The Tories - in their current incarnation - are busy destroying everything that has been good about this country.
Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...
Been a big weekend for marathons.
Plus, which is more interesting? I could drive a F1 car as fast as Hamilton (OK, except round the corners). I doubt I could do half a Kosgei or Kipchoge speed, even on the straight bits.
Kipchoge's average speed was 13.1mph, which is faster than most people can run 100m - even fit amateur athletes can't keep up that pace for more than a minute or so.
Truly astounding. I remember reading somewhere that Usain Bolt may never have run a mile in his life, given he is geared to sprinting, but to consider someone can consistently run at regular person sprinting speed for 2 hours, well, its remarkable what the human body can manage.
I doubt he's ever run more than 400m in anger, as you say his body just isn't built for it.
We forget that elite athletes are all completely superhuman specimens, they have lung capacity and lactate tolerance that 99.99% of us just don't have, plus the 'right' muscle mass, bone density, height and weight to be good at a particular event, things that are genetic and can't simply be trained out - not to belittle the massive advances in sports science and equipment technology in recent decades.
There's good physical reasons that a lot of long distance runners at the Olympics are of Central African origin, a lot of 100m runners are of West Indian origin, and a lot of high jumpers are of North European origin. Those people have simply developed to be 'better' than the rest of us at certain things.
Evidence based policy is needed more than ever in criminal justice, but 'Hangman' Patel shows her true ignorant reactionary colours.
What an awful Home Secretary we have indeed.
With the socially conservative working class Leave voters in Labour Leave seats the Tories need for a majority I expect Patel's views go down well.
Indeed Yougov a fortnight ago had 72% of voters outside London wanting harsher sentences for criminals compared to only 60% of Londoners. A majority of voters also backed the death penalty for terrorists, serial killers and police and child killers
Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know
Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution
32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical
Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not
So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain
16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem
The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero
The government's PR operation has been as effective as one might have expected. The only effective argument against Brexit will be Brexit, unfortunately, and by then it will be too late. I've given up on this country, it doesn't merit me giving a shit what happens to it.
I'm not surprised Sky News' poll is like this. They are not really impartial with their news broadcasts and opinions. (A milder form of Fox News). Yougov may be impartial, but I'm sure the sample would have been skewed to Skynews viewers and therefore partial.
On another issue, Channel 5 are supposed to be running a poll about which kind of deal/no deal people prefer.
Are these news agencies scared of asking the obvious question? Shall we Remain or stay? Or are the paymasters scared of the result?
You cannot be watching the same Sky news as I do. They are very much a remain channel and to be fair I would not impune YouGov just because I did not like the results
FPT - I’ve only just caught up with Cyclefree’s superb thread. Truly excellent stuff and I agree entirely.
Bravo.
The astonishing thing about the whole scandal is that even someone as politically interested as @NickPalmer was honest enough to admit not being aware of the details of the Henriques report.
Something which ought to rock the police establishment has passed almost unnoticed.
Agreed. Aided by the fact that today’s QS will contain a load of incoherent nonsense about law ‘n’ order. Take two points: ensuring that serious criminals are not released halfway through their sentence. This is already the case.
Second, the budget on the entire justice system has been cut by 40%. That is why courts are shutting, people are waiting over a year for trials, judges are sitting idle etc. The recent spending statement only increased the current budget by 5%.
Remember this when the Tory fan boys start praising all the QS promises made today.
The Tories - in their current incarnation - are busy destroying everything that has been good about this country.
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.
Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
Contrast with the response of SNP, Green and other Yes campaigners who have never stopped trying to convert wavering No-ers to the Yes side since 2014. Change can only be achieved by converting previous opponents to your arguments. It is a basic, enduring truth of public life. Leavers totally fail to understand that. They think they will win by bullying, intimidation and bending the law. They won’t. The entire edifice is built on very shoddy foundations. It takes decades to build the solid base on which to advance. Leavers have been lazy, negligent and arrogant. There is no consensus to leave, and there never will be until the Leave side is lead by pleasant, trustworthy and persuasive people.
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.
Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
Sorry, I hadn’t realised it was my job to create a consensus about how to leave. I had rather hoped that the 650 MPs that I outsource running the country to would do that for me.
Hopefully you'll think twice before outsourcing a job to the Conservative Party again.
FPT - I’ve only just caught up with Cyclefree’s superb thread. Truly excellent stuff and I agree entirely.
Bravo.
The astonishing thing about the whole scandal is that even someone as politically interested as @NickPalmer was honest enough to admit not being aware of the details of the Henriques report.
Something which ought to rock the police establishment has passed almost unnoticed.
Agreed. Aided by the fact that today’s QS will contain a load of incoherent nonsense about law ‘n’ order. Take two points: ensuring that serious criminals are not released halfway through their sentence. This is already the case.
Second, the budget on the entire justice system has been cut by 40%. That is why courts are shutting, people are waiting over a year for trials, judges are sitting idle etc. The recent spending statement only increased the current budget by 5%.
Remember this when the Tory fan boys start praising all the QS promises made today.
The Tories - in their current incarnation - are busy destroying everything that has been good about this country.
Not about how to, about whether to. That is the job of the winners, to show the losers that their vision includes them. Instead, Leavers have spent the last three years in increasing paranoia, imposing steadily more stringent purity tests and accusing doubters of being quislings, traitors and, in your case, doubting their mental health.
Oddly this has not led to a consensus for Brexit, despite its mandate: if anything, the whole idea is losing support.
I can only imagine how inclusive Remainers would have been if they'd won, even by a couple of votes. We'll never know, of course, but I'd imagine they'd have gone back to the "looneys, fruitcakes and closet racists" attitude with amazing speed.
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.
Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
Contrast with the response of SNP, Green and other Yes campaigners who have never stopped trying to convert wavering No-ers to the Yes side since 2014. Change can only be achieved by converting previous opponents to your arguments. It is a basic, enduring truth of public life. Leavers totally fail to understand that. They think they will win by bullying, intimidation and bending the law. They won’t. The entire edifice is built on very shoddy foundations. It takes decades to build the solid base on which to advance. Leavers have been lazy, negligent and arrogant. There is no consensus to leave, and there never will be until the Leave side is lead by pleasant, trustworthy and persuasive people.
I hear Nicola is ready to put a hard border from Carlisle to Berwick if necessary affecting 60% of Scots exports.
Do you really think that even Scots will support such a barrier to trade and free movement within the UK. Is my Scottish wife going to have to provide her passport at the border when she visits family in the North of Scotland
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.
Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
Contrast with the response of SNP, Green and other Yes campaigners who have never stopped trying to convert wavering No-ers to the Yes side since 2014. Change can only be achieved by converting previous opponents to your arguments. It is a basic, enduring truth of public life. Leavers totally fail to understand that. They think they will win by bullying, intimidation and bending the law. They won’t. The entire edifice is built on very shoddy foundations. It takes decades to build the solid base on which to advance. Leavers have been lazy, negligent and arrogant. There is no consensus to leave, and there never will be until the Leave side is lead by pleasant, trustworthy and persuasive people.
But there no pleasant, trustworthy or pleasant people in the SNP.
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.
Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
Contrast with the response of SNP, Green and other Yes campaigners who have never stopped trying to convert wavering No-ers to the Yes side since 2014. Change can only be achieved by converting previous opponents to your arguments. It is a basic, enduring truth of public life. Leavers totally fail to understand that. They think they will win by bullying, intimidation and bending the law. They won’t. The entire edifice is built on very shoddy foundations. It takes decades to build the solid base on which to advance. Leavers have been lazy, negligent and arrogant. There is no consensus to leave, and there never will be until the Leave side is lead by pleasant, trustworthy and persuasive people.
I agree with that. Of course, it helps Yessers that they lost, but in fairness Scottish unionists have also remained alive to their challenge.
Leavers seem to think that they can ride roughshod over everyone without debate. You can see it on this thread, where the very idea that the public might get to change its mind is treated with horror.
Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know
Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution
32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical
Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not
So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain
16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem
The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero
Indeed, if a Brexit Deal is not agreed this week voters now prefer No Deal to further extension
More spin !
Voters do not prefer no deal , 33% want to ditch Brexit and Remain which means staying with our current deal and 14% want more negotiations. So 47% against 41% .
Be careful about associating yourself with the slogan “Britain First”
Brexit was certainly not a vote for that agenda (even though some of that ilk may have supported Brexit l)
Given the Leave vote was mainly a vote to regain sovereignty and reduce immigration based on the polling I would suggest it was more a vote for 'Britain First' than one to become a new low tax, low spend, low regulation Singapore and to do our own trade deals as global free trading Britain even if some Leave voters backed that
Is there a poll where people are asked to choose between no deal or revoke ever been asked given that the primary objective of most people is to ‘get it over with’ even in the short term.
Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.
Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
Contrast with the response of SNP, Green and other Yes campaigners who have never stopped trying to convert wavering No-ers to the Yes side since 2014. Change can only be achieved by converting previous opponents to your arguments. It is a basic, enduring truth of public life. Leavers totally fail to understand that. They think they will win by bullying, intimidation and bending the law. They won’t. The entire edifice is built on very shoddy foundations. It takes decades to build the solid base on which to advance. Leavers have been lazy, negligent and arrogant. There is no consensus to leave, and there never will be until the Leave side is lead by pleasant, trustworthy and persuasive people.
Leave won the EU referendum, they do not need to convert voters, just have their victory respected by diehard Remainers.
Yes lost the Scottish independence referendum and so do need to convert voters to reverse their defeat
FPT - I’ve only just caught up with Cyclefree’s superb thread. Truly excellent stuff and I agree entirely.
Bravo.
The astonishing thing about the whole scandal is that even someone as politically interested as @NickPalmer was honest enough to admit not being aware of the details of the Henriques report.
Something which ought to rock the police establishment has passed almost unnoticed.
Agreed. Aided by the fact that today’s QS will contain a load of incoherent nonsense about law ‘n’ order. Take two points: ensuring that serious criminals are not released halfway through their sentence. This is already the case.
Second, the budget on the entire justice system has been cut by 40%. That is why courts are shutting, people are waiting over a year for trials, judges are sitting idle etc. The recent spending statement only increased the current budget by 5%.
Remember this when the Tory fan boys start praising all the QS promises made today.
The Tories - in their current incarnation - are busy destroying everything that has been good about this country.
Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...
Been a big weekend for marathons.
Plus, which is more interesting? I could drive a F1 car as fast as Hamilton (OK, except round the corners). I doubt I could do half a Kosgei or Kipchoge speed, even on the straight bits.
Kipchoge's average speed was 13.1mph, which is faster than most people can run 100m - even fit amateur athletes can't keep up that pace for more than a minute or so.
Truly astounding. I remember reading somewhere that Usain Bolt may never have run a mile in his life, given he is geared to sprinting, but to consider someone can consistently run at regular person sprinting speed for 2 hours, well, its remarkable what the human body can manage.
I think he's faster than most regular people's sprinting speed.
I think someone said he did 17 seconds per 100m, which is about what I managed at Secondary School.
Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know
Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution
32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical
Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not
So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain
16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem
The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero
Indeed, if a Brexit Deal is not agreed this week voters now prefer No Deal to further extension
More spin !
Voters do not prefer no deal , 33% want to ditch Brexit and Remain which means staying with our current deal and 14% want more negotiations. So 47% against 41% .
41% wanting no deal is much higher than anyone thought and you cannot add 14% to the remain column as they want more negotiation no doubt for a softer brexit
In any referendum the question would have to be deal - no deal - remain as confirmed by Dominic Grieve recently
Not about how to, about whether to. That is the job of the winners, to show the losers that their vision includes them. Instead, Leavers have spent the last three years in increasing paranoia, imposing steadily more stringent purity tests and accusing doubters of being quislings, traitors and, in your case, doubting their mental health.
Oddly this has not led to a consensus for Brexit, despite its mandate: if anything, the whole idea is losing support.
I can only imagine how inclusive Remainers would have been if they'd won, even by a couple of votes. We'll never know, of course, but I'd imagine they'd have gone back to the "looneys, fruitcakes and closet racists" attitude with amazing speed.
For starters, David Cameron’s renegotiation would in all probability have been implemented. So unlike Leave, who have ripped up their own prospectus and still purport to have a mandate, the Remain prospectus would have been delivered.
Since when is Trump backing Turkey? He is backing neither side.
As of yesterday however Assad is now backing the Kurds
Since he agreed to step aside and allow them invade the safe zone in Syrian territory, established over five years largely as a result of determined US policy.
It was about the only good thing that has happened in the war torn country. The betrayal without warning of an ally who lead the fight against IS at the cost of many thousands of casualties (I believe US casualties during the time are in single figures) will damage worldwide trust in the US a very long time.
Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know
Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution
32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical
Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not
So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain
16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem
The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero
Indeed, if a Brexit Deal is not agreed this week voters now prefer No Deal to further extension
More spin !
Voters do not prefer no deal , 33% want to ditch Brexit and Remain which means staying with our current deal and 14% want more negotiations. So 47% against 41% .
55% prefer No Deal or a Brexit Deal after more negotiations to just a third for Remain
Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...
Been a big weekend for marathons.
Plus, which is more interesting? I could drive a F1 car as fast as Hamilton (OK, except round the corners). I doubt I could do half a Kosgei or Kipchoge speed, even on the straight bits.
Kipchoge's average speed was 13.1mph, which is faster than most people can run 100m - even fit amateur athletes can't keep up that pace for more than a minute or so.
Truly astounding. I remember reading somewhere that Usain Bolt may never have run a mile in his life, given he is geared to sprinting, but to consider someone can consistently run at regular person sprinting speed for 2 hours, well, its remarkable what the human body can manage.
I think he's faster than most regular people's sprinting speed.
I think someone said he did 17 seconds per 100m, which is about what I managed at Secondary School.
Comments
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/13/snp-sturgeon-to-request-fresh-scottish-independence-referendum-within-weeks
Fake video of Trump shooting media and opponents 'shown at president's resort'
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/14/fake-video-of-trump-shooting-media-and-opponents-shown-at-presidents-resort
Depressing read.
Evidence based policy is needed more than ever in criminal justice, but 'Hangman' Patel shows her true ignorant reactionary colours.
What an awful Home Secretary we have indeed.
Then again, maybe they won't. Only trouble is, as is well known, struggling in a swamp only drags one further down. The way out is to stay still and call for help!
But who is likely to throw us a rope to grasp?
Bravo.
Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
So an early election is now off the table?
Or ten SNP generations.
Ultimately, it's not really a government of all the talents, more of a government of people who supported Boris's bid for leadership of the Conservative Party.
Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
Mr. Meeks, if it goes to a second referendum I'd be astounded if Remain lost (versus a Deal option).
The question is: will MPs go for one?
Ironic that Corbyn's the greatest ally hardline Leavers have.
Raab is a very smart man. A close leftie friend who worked for him at justice described him as brilliant, but not a particularly nice boss.
Williamson to be fair is clearly a disaster and deserves to be in the same category as Patel (is he still demanding the police investigate himself I wonder!?).
Oddly this has not led to a consensus for Brexit, despite its mandate: if anything, the whole idea is losing support.
However, most of those pushing for a second referendum appear to be of the opinion that it should be between the option that was rejected by the people three years ago, and the option that was rejected three times by Parliament earlier this year.
The reason Remain needs to be on any fresh referendum is because it is by far the most popular single option in every poll on the subject. Excluding it would be a democratic atrocity.
I think Corbyn may actually turn out to be the man who stopped Brexit. A more competent and professional Labour leader wouldn't have been 20 pts down in the polls, and therefore wouldn't have tempted May into an earlier election.
My first question is what will Boris do or announce on the 5th / 6th that will completely overshadow the budget.
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1183316240326184960
Pretty predictable. Unless you're working on Ferrari's strategy, it seems.
https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1183608565162004480?s=20
The EU isn’t offering a referendum on the deal to its citizens- surely remainers want to align with the EU method of doing things.
What a wonderfully adaptable and many-faceted thing democracy is.
No shambles here.
Something which ought to rock the police establishment has passed almost unnoticed.
Have Queens Speech day.
LOCK THE DOORS!
While Mercedes' achievement of six consecutive double titles is also an amazing record, it doesn't quite have the same human interest as the two hour marathon finally being cracked after decades of trying, and a women's world (and British) record that has stood for sixteen years being obliterated only a day later.
If it is a confirmatory referendum then the result of a no vote should be leaving with No Deal.
In any case, the Labour leave vote is estimated around 3-3.5m (based on 2017 Labour vote). Many of those of course didn't vote Labour in 2015.
A hypothetical Labour leader would have needed to persuade 20-25% of those to change their mind and back Remain. Not impossible, but it seems a bit of a tall order, when you consider how engrained opinions on Brexit seem to be.
Plus, which is more interesting? I could drive a F1 car as fast as Hamilton (OK, except round the corners). I doubt I could do half a Kosgei or Kipchoge speed, even on the straight bits.
Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know
Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution
32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical
Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not
So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain
16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem
The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero
Indeed.
Though don't forget Trump's dodgy Turkish connection go back before his election.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/trump-colluding-turkey-erdogan-kurds-syria.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds21U7coQzI
As of yesterday however Assad is now backing the Kurds
Be careful about associating yourself with the slogan “Britain First”
Brexit was certainly not a vote for that agenda (even though some of that ilk may have supported Brexit l)
On another issue, Channel 5 are supposed to be running a poll about which kind of deal/no deal people prefer.
Are these news agencies scared of asking the obvious question? Shall we Remain or stay? Or are the paymasters scared of the result?
Second, the budget on the entire justice system has been cut by 40%. That is why courts are shutting, people are waiting over a year for trials, judges are sitting idle etc. The recent spending statement only increased the current budget by 5%.
Remember this when the Tory fan boys start praising all the QS promises made today.
The Tories - in their current incarnation - are busy destroying everything that has been good about this country.
We forget that elite athletes are all completely superhuman specimens, they have lung capacity and lactate tolerance that 99.99% of us just don't have, plus the 'right' muscle mass, bone density, height and weight to be good at a particular event, things that are genetic and can't simply be trained out - not to belittle the massive advances in sports science and equipment technology in recent decades.
There's good physical reasons that a lot of long distance runners at the Olympics are of Central African origin, a lot of 100m runners are of West Indian origin, and a lot of high jumpers are of North European origin. Those people have simply developed to be 'better' than the rest of us at certain things.
Indeed Yougov a fortnight ago had 72% of voters outside London wanting harsher sentences for criminals compared to only 60% of Londoners. A majority of voters also backed the death penalty for terrorists, serial killers and police and child killers
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/legal/articles-reports/2019/10/01/brits-want-harsher-punishments-criminals
Brexit is a f*cking disaster.
Should be revoked asap to stop this country descending further onto the scrapheap.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/05/almost-fifth-murders-england-wales-committed-ex-inmates-parole/
Do you really think that even Scots will support such a barrier to trade and free movement within the UK. Is my Scottish wife going to have to provide her passport at the border when she visits family in the North of Scotland
Leavers seem to think that they can ride roughshod over everyone without debate. You can see it on this thread, where the very idea that the public might get to change its mind is treated with horror.
Voters do not prefer no deal , 33% want to ditch Brexit and Remain which means staying with our current deal and 14% want more negotiations. So 47% against 41% .
https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1183648943516868608
"To put Eliud Kipchoge's sub 2 hour marathon into perspective:
Only FIVE of the 51,363,611 parkruns completed have been faster than Eliud's pace."
Yes lost the Scottish independence referendum and so do need to convert voters to reverse their defeat
In any referendum the question would have to be deal - no deal - remain as confirmed by Dominic Grieve recently
It was about the only good thing that has happened in the war torn country.
The betrayal without warning of an ally who lead the fight against IS at the cost of many thousands of casualties (I believe US casualties during the time are in single figures) will damage worldwide trust in the US a very long time.