No it isn't im afraid. This is pretty much the embedded "not BoJo at any cost" demographic. It is the much greater numbers NOT blaming Johnson and the Tories that is significant.
The Cummings/Johnson Brexit strategy looks to be turning out to be remarkably successful.
You think that 36% of LEAVE voters blaming Boris for not leaving is not significant? Even if they are normally Labour voters, that will mean a load of ‘working class northern’ seat targets will not go Blue.
No they will go blue if 64% of Leave voters vote Tory and over 60% of the seat voted Leave
No it isn't im afraid. This is pretty much the embedded "not BoJo at any cost" demographic. It is the much greater numbers NOT blaming Johnson and the Tories that is significant.
The Cummings/Johnson Brexit strategy looks to be turning out to be remarkably successful.
You think that 36% of LEAVE voters blaming Boris for not leaving is not significant? Even if they are normally Labour voters, that will mean a load of ‘working class northern’ seat targets will not go Blue.
No they will go blue if 64% of Leave voters vote Tory and over 60% of the seat voted Leave
But 64% wont vote Tory. Some will stay Labour anyway, some will vote UKIP or Brexit Party. Some will not vote at all.
"There's a pretty obvious way to find out what the voters want currently in this context."
Why would anyone bother voting? We had a referendum and the result was ignored. We'd be offered a choice between staying in and Remain. Leaving with a deal would not be on offer, because the EU can see no reason to negotiate now they can see the winning post in sight.
Go back to your constituencies and prepare for an accelerated political union.
No it isn't im afraid. This is pretty much the embedded "not BoJo at any cost" demographic. It is the much greater numbers NOT blaming Johnson and the Tories that is significant.
The Cummings/Johnson Brexit strategy looks to be turning out to be remarkably successful.
60% of 52% is a good strategy?
Given more Remainers are now voting LD than Corbyn Labour and most marginal seats are Tory v Labour still yes
"There's a pretty obvious way to find out what the voters want currently in this context."
Why would anyone bother voting? We had a referendum and the result was ignored. We'd be offered a choice between staying in and Remain. Leaving with a deal would not be on offer, because the EU can see no reason to negotiate now they can see the winning post in sight.
Go back to your constituencies and prepare for an accelerated political union.
Ah yes, ignored. In the last 3 years the idea of Brexiting has never been mentioned once.
"There's a pretty obvious way to find out what the voters want currently in this context."
Why would anyone bother voting? We had a referendum and the result was ignored. We'd be offered a choice between staying in and Remain. Leaving with a deal would not be on offer, because the EU can see no reason to negotiate now they can see the winning post in sight.
Go back to your constituencies and prepare for an accelerated political union.
The MPs calculated that delaying enough would ebb the enthusiasm of those who voted Leave, and that may well work. The EU never wanted us to leave, it would leave a £10 billion a year hole in their finances and the Germans have no intention of filling that gap.
That leaves the French to make up the deficit - don't hold your breath.
After three plus years, the MPs will claim … "We did our best, but it just isn't possible." Especially when they consistently voted against any deal. Cue … a short delay, and then a rapid advance to full political union. "It's what the voters always wanted,"
Sounds like a good idea. I was never a Euro federalist until the European referendum. Now I’m coming around to the idea. It would be a wise move, and allow our UK nations to enjoy ‘independence in Europe’ under a federal system. It’s an idea whose time has come. €€€
No it isn't im afraid. This is pretty much the embedded "not BoJo at any cost" demographic. It is the much greater numbers NOT blaming Johnson and the Tories that is significant.
The Cummings/Johnson Brexit strategy looks to be turning out to be remarkably successful.
60% of 52% is a good strategy?
Ha! The first rule of politics is being able to count...
Sky News - Rory Stewart resigns for the Conservative Party and will not stand at the general election.
I don't dislike Rory Stewart but how can you go from being a Tory prime ministerial candidate to resignation within a couple of months!?
It's nearly as bizarre as Sam Gymiah travelling from prospective Tory PM to Lib Dems in half that time?!
It says more about their personal narcissistic ambitions than any great love for the party that made them.
Rory Stewart has resigned because whilst he remains a conservative, the Conservative Party no longer is.
The "Conservative and Unionist" party has become the English Brexit Lite Party as party members discard the Union in favour of Brexit. Fiscal conservatism has been binned, respect for the rule of law is secondary and constitutional conventions and norms are trashed.
The Conservative party has become subsumed by the ERG death cult and the personal ambition of Boris Johnson.
How strongly will Corbyn whip his party against the Boris deal? It seems now that its not really in his interest to let Boris get a victory, and could whip very strongly against. In that scenario, will those like Nandy Snell and Smeeth still hold out and vote for it, they could face deselection if so.
The MPs calculated that delaying enough would ebb the enthusiasm of those who voted Leave, and that may well work. The EU never wanted us to leave, it would leave a £10 billion a year hole in their finances and the Germans have no intention of filling that gap.
That leaves the French to make up the deficit - don't hold your breath.
After three plus years, the MPs will claim … "We did our best, but it just isn't possible." Especially when they consistently voted against any deal. Cue … a short delay, and then a rapid advance to full political union. "It's what the voters always wanted,"
Sounds like a good idea. I was never a Euro federalist until the European referendum. Now I’m coming around to the idea. It would be a wise move, and allow our UK nations to enjoy ‘independence in Europe’ under a federal system. It’s an idea whose time has come. €€€
I'm sure you wont mind paying all the extra money which comes with it.
I've always thought that if we did leave, it would be a BINO, and I've said so often on here. I now think even that fig leaf will be discarded.
It won't affect me much as my opinion of professional politicians was always low. I worked on the basis that if you seek election to Parliament, you have an inflated opinion of your worth. Catch 22 usually applies.
As for political union, it actually makes sense for the EU. A unified European country makes more sense than a federal system and we'll soon be enjoying that experience.
Sky News - Rory Stewart resigns for the Conservative Party and will not stand at the general election.
I don't dislike Rory Stewart but how can you go from being a Tory prime ministerial candidate to resignation within a couple of months!?
It's nearly as bizarre as Sam Gymiah travelling from prospective Tory PM to Lib Dems in half that time?!
It says more about their personal narcissistic ambitions than any great love for the party that made them.
Rory Stewart has resigned because whilst he remains a conservative, the Conservative Party no longer is.
The "Conservative and Unionist" party has become the English Brexit Lite Party as party members discard the Union in favour of Brexit. Fiscal conservatism has been binned, respect for the rule of law is secondary and constitutional conventions and norms are trashed.
The Conservative party has become subsumed by the ERG death cult and the personal ambition of Boris Johnson.
Fiscal conservatism was binned in 2010 with triple lock pensions and the tripling of student tuition fees.
How strongly will Corbyn whip his party against the Boris deal? It seems now that its not really in his interest to let Boris get a victory, and could whip very strongly against. In that scenario, will those like Nandy Snell and Smeeth still hold out and vote for it, they could face deselection if so.
If they want to defect I expect Boris would welcome them if they vote for his Deal
How strongly will Corbyn whip his party against the Boris deal? It seems now that its not really in his interest to let Boris get a victory, and could whip very strongly against. In that scenario, will those like Nandy Snell and Smeeth still hold out and vote for it, they could face deselection if so.
If they want to defect I expect Boris would welcome them if they vote for his Deal
"There's a pretty obvious way to find out what the voters want currently in this context."
Why would anyone bother voting? We had a referendum and the result was ignored. We'd be offered a choice between staying in and Remain. Leaving with a deal would not be on offer, because the EU can see no reason to negotiate now they can see the winning post in sight.
Go back to your constituencies and prepare for an accelerated political union.
If there was a referendum between Remain and May's deal, organised by a caretaker government for example, would you not vote in it then? Even if it was a legally binding vote like the AV one?
"There's a pretty obvious way to find out what the voters want currently in this context."
Why would anyone bother voting? We had a referendum and the result was ignored. We'd be offered a choice between staying in and Remain. Leaving with a deal would not be on offer, because the EU can see no reason to negotiate now they can see the winning post in sight.
Go back to your constituencies and prepare for an accelerated political union.
Great news where do I sign up . I never was up for more political union even as an arch Remainer however I have more faith in the EU to protect my rights .
Once out of the EU the Tories will run amok , next to go will be the ECHR .
No it isn't im afraid. This is pretty much the embedded "not BoJo at any cost" demographic. It is the much greater numbers NOT blaming Johnson and the Tories that is significant.
The Cummings/Johnson Brexit strategy looks to be turning out to be remarkably successful.
60% of 52% is a good strategy?
Temporarily, perhaps, if the opposition divide the rest between several parties. But, rather like the Republican adoption of Trump, the abandonment of the party's principles might be eventually be fatal.
Sky News - Rory Stewart resigns for the Conservative Party and will not stand at the general election.
I don't dislike Rory Stewart but how can you go from being a Tory prime ministerial candidate to resignation within a couple of months!?
It's nearly as bizarre as Sam Gymiah travelling from prospective Tory PM to Lib Dems in half that time?!
It says more about their personal narcissistic ambitions than any great love for the party that made them.
Rory Stewart has resigned because whilst he remains a conservative, the Conservative Party no longer is.
The "Conservative and Unionist" party has become the English Brexit Lite Party as party members discard the Union in favour of Brexit. Fiscal conservatism has been binned, respect for the rule of law is secondary and constitutional conventions and norms are trashed.
The Conservative party has become subsumed by the ERG death cult and the personal ambition of Boris Johnson.
Because the right-wing-o-sphere has lost any capability they had of judging evidence fairly since Brexit and Trump, leading to partisan hackery at all points?
How strongly will Corbyn whip his party against the Boris deal? It seems now that its not really in his interest to let Boris get a victory, and could whip very strongly against. In that scenario, will those like Nandy Snell and Smeeth still hold out and vote for it, they could face deselection if so.
That doesn't really seem to be how Corbyn rolls, if there's pressure to deselect I guess it'll come from their members.
This whole saga does not bode well for "Global Britain" it must be said. Those arguing that we have a great future of global free trade in our future must understand that many overseas are looking at us with incredulity. Japan have made it clear often, but other countries will either see us as 1) an easy mark or 2) a crazy person not worth doing business with.
Consider that all trade agreements will mean compromise, usually in the direction of the more powerful person at the table, and we are going to be the least powerful player on most tables, we are often going to get the short end of any trade deal.
Chlorinated chicken and wormy pork are only the beginning.
Sky News - Rory Stewart resigns for the Conservative Party and will not stand at the general election.
I don't dislike Rory Stewart but how can you go from being a Tory prime ministerial candidate to resignation within a couple of months!?
It's nearly as bizarre as Sam Gymiah travelling from prospective Tory PM to Lib Dems in half that time?!
It says more about their personal narcissistic ambitions than any great love for the party that made them.
Rory Stewart has resigned because whilst he remains a conservative, the Conservative Party no longer is.
The "Conservative and Unionist" party has become the English Brexit Lite Party as party members discard the Union in favour of Brexit. Fiscal conservatism has been binned, respect for the rule of law is secondary and constitutional conventions and norms are trashed.
The Conservative party has become subsumed by the ERG death cult and the personal ambition of Boris Johnson.
It's amazing how rapid the final stage of the fall has been.
Had any other modern Prime Minister acted, and been caught out, in the way this one has, they would undoubtedly have been handed the loaded revolver and tumbler of whisky by now. And yet there has not been a peep out of the Conservative ecosystem. I wouldn't be surprised if that- or the calculated insult of the "compromise plan" (also lapped up by the faithful) was the final straw.
I wish old-school Conservatives weren't reading the writing on the wall, but I can't blame them or deny what it says on the wall.
How strongly will Corbyn whip his party against the Boris deal? It seems now that its not really in his interest to let Boris get a victory, and could whip very strongly against. In that scenario, will those like Nandy Snell and Smeeth still hold out and vote for it, they could face deselection if so.
The only MP Corbyn has actually thrown out of the party is Fiona who went to prison, the local members could deselect them for it (or they might not) but I can't see Corbyn actually doing it. Some MPs seem to be voting for Brexit with little/limited grief, although it helps not to go as far as Hoey, mainly those in leave areas.
TBH I quite like Nandy so I wouldn't deselect her for it although I wouldn't be delighted with it but maybe I am a bit less hardline than others on this. Although I feel like some of the pro EU lot* can sound more deselection happy than the craziest Corbynista when it comes to the subject.
Sky News - Rory Stewart resigns for the Conservative Party and will not stand at the general election.
I don't dislike Rory Stewart but how can you go from being a Tory prime ministerial candidate to resignation within a couple of months!?
It's nearly as bizarre as Sam Gymiah travelling from prospective Tory PM to Lib Dems in half that time?!
It says more about their personal narcissistic ambitions than any great love for the party that made them.
Rory Stewart has resigned because whilst he remains a conservative, the Conservative Party no longer is.
The "Conservative and Unionist" party has become the English Brexit Lite Party as party members discard the Union in favour of Brexit. Fiscal conservatism has been binned, respect for the rule of law is secondary and constitutional conventions and norms are trashed.
The Conservative party has become subsumed by the ERG death cult and the personal ambition of Boris Johnson.
We have not one but TWO Brexit Parties:
Brexit Party (Farage) Brexit Party (Johnson)
UKIP are hurt by this comment...
Something old, something borrowed and something blue.
"There's a pretty obvious way to find out what the voters want currently in this context."
Why would anyone bother voting? We had a referendum and the result was ignored. We'd be offered a choice between staying in and Remain. Leaving with a deal would not be on offer, because the EU can see no reason to negotiate now they can see the winning post in sight.
Go back to your constituencies and prepare for an accelerated political union.
The EU is still offering the TMay-Barnier withdrawal agreement, the blockage is at the UK end.
This whole saga does not bode well for "Global Britain" it must be said. Those arguing that we have a great future of global free trade in our future must understand that many overseas are looking at us with incredulity. Japan have made it clear often, but other countries will either see us as 1) an easy mark or 2) a crazy person not worth doing business with.
Consider that all trade agreements will mean compromise, usually in the direction of the more powerful person at the table, and we are going to be the least powerful player on most tables, we are often going to get the short end of any trade deal.
Chlorinated chicken and wormy pork are only the beginning.
If we're the least powerful player on most tables perhaps its time to put a stop on the Overseas Aid and the foreign defence commitments.
Surely the EU’s best chance to stop Brexit is a long extension- 1-2 years. And now is the best chance to get it before a GE.
Don't forget the new budget round starts from 1st april. So that's an obvious break point if they are looking for a longer extension, and it gets messy financially once we go into part of the next budget cycle.
How strongly will Corbyn whip his party against the Boris deal? It seems now that its not really in his interest to let Boris get a victory, and could whip very strongly against. In that scenario, will those like Nandy Snell and Smeeth still hold out and vote for it, they could face deselection if so.
Why on earth would Labour MPs vote for a Tory proposal that has been rejected by every political party, trades union and business group in Norhern Ireland apart from the DUP? They might vote for a deal that the UK has agreed with the EU. But that is a very different thing. For a start, it's not something the ERG would vote for.
Eton really does train politicians to be quitters doesn't it?
Apart from Jo Johnson, Rory Stewart and David Cameron, which Old Etonians have flounced? Apart from their Sirships Nicholas Soames (grandson of ...) and Oliver Letwin who had flouncing thrust upon them when Boris lied about a confidence vote?
The Labour Council leader also stepped down in September and was referred to the Standards Committee (dodgy share dealings, all undeclared).
Fortunately, Labour have packed the Standards Committee with their place-men & place-women. The Ombudsman for Wales Nick Bennett is also close to ‘Welsh’ Labour, having been in business with a former Labour minister.
So, I'm sure he'll be cleared, maybe slapped on the knuckles,
There is endemic mismanagement of these tiny South Walian Councils.
Sadly, under Labour, Wales has become a more corrupt & poorer version of Sicily.
This whole saga does not bode well for "Global Britain" it must be said. Those arguing that we have a great future of global free trade in our future must understand that many overseas are looking at us with incredulity. Japan have made it clear often, but other countries will either see us as 1) an easy mark or 2) a crazy person not worth doing business with.
Consider that all trade agreements will mean compromise, usually in the direction of the more powerful person at the table, and we are going to be the least powerful player on most tables, we are often going to get the short end of any trade deal.
Chlorinated chicken and wormy pork are only the beginning.
"There was me, that is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel, and my three droogs, that is Priti, Govey, and Dom, and we sat in the Kensington Milkbar trying to make up our Raaboodocks what to do with the evening. The Kensington Milkbar sold Milk-plus, milk plus Corn Syrup or GM Soya or Chlorinated Chicken, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old No-Deal Brexit!"
"If there was a referendum between Remain and May's deal, organised by a caretaker government for example,"
I've argued that to reflect the referendum result, we should offer a choice between alternative Leave options?
This would be like your team losing in the semi-final and still going to Wembley to compete against a depleted victor?
If you could be confident that all of the 52pc, when voting, were happy with either of those options that has some legitimacy. But if, for example, there’s evidence that the leaders of the campaign for the leave vote specifically argued that one of those outcomes was scaremongering and wouldn’t happen, it doesn’t seem at all reasonable to appropriate the whole 52pc as giving implied support for the outcome of the second referendum.
Basically it would be a mechanism for falsely claiming some kind of popular will for an outcome likely to be opposed by 65pc or more of the electorate, which just doesn’t seem like the kind of thing that turns out well. (Not that any of the options right now pass the ‘likely to turn out well’ test)
The MPs calculated that delaying enough would ebb the enthusiasm of those who voted Leave, and that may well work. The EU never wanted us to leave, it would leave a £10 billion a year hole in their finances and the Germans have no intention of filling that gap.
That leaves the French to make up the deficit - don't hold your breath.
After three plus years, the MPs will claim … "We did our best, but it just isn't possible." Especially when they consistently voted against any deal. Cue … a short delay, and then a rapid advance to full political union. "It's what the voters always wanted,"
There's a pretty obvious way to find out what the voters want currently in this context.
How strongly will Corbyn whip his party against the Boris deal? It seems now that its not really in his interest to let Boris get a victory, and could whip very strongly against. In that scenario, will those like Nandy Snell and Smeeth still hold out and vote for it, they could face deselection if so.
The only MP Corbyn has actually thrown out of the party is Fiona who went to prison, the local members could deselect them for it (or they might not) but I can't see Corbyn actually doing it. Some MPs seem to be voting for Brexit with little/limited grief, although it helps not to go as far as Hoey, mainly those in leave areas.
TBH I quite like Nandy so I wouldn't deselect her for it although I wouldn't be delighted with it but maybe I am a bit less hardline than others on this. Although I feel like some of the pro EU lot* can sound more deselection happy than the craziest Corbynista when it comes to the subject.
*Not directed at you
Academic, surely. Is there going to be a Boris Deal to vote on?
The Hungarian wildcard is underestimated, though. What else could explain Boris's extraordinary confidence about 31st October?
How strongly will Corbyn whip his party against the Boris deal? It seems now that its not really in his interest to let Boris get a victory, and could whip very strongly against. In that scenario, will those like Nandy Snell and Smeeth still hold out and vote for it, they could face deselection if so.
The only MP Corbyn has actually thrown out of the party is Fiona who went to prison, the local members could deselect them for it (or they might not) but I can't see Corbyn actually doing it. Some MPs seem to be voting for Brexit with little/limited grief, although it helps not to go as far as Hoey, mainly those in leave areas.
TBH I quite like Nandy so I wouldn't deselect her for it although I wouldn't be delighted with it but maybe I am a bit less hardline than others on this. Although I feel like some of the pro EU lot* can sound more deselection happy than the craziest Corbynista when it comes to the subject.
*Not directed at you
Academic, surely. Is there going to be a Boris Deal to vote on?
The Hungarian wildcard is underestimated, though. What else could explain Boris's extraordinary confidence about 31st October?
I don't think there will be and I'm not sure if Nandy would vote for it, I was just going along with the hypothetical from the previous post.
Edit: On the second bit Boris loves a bit of bluster, I try not to read too much into it either way.
How strongly will Corbyn whip his party against the Boris deal? It seems now that its not really in his interest to let Boris get a victory, and could whip very strongly against. In that scenario, will those like Nandy Snell and Smeeth still hold out and vote for it, they could face deselection if so.
The only MP Corbyn has actually thrown out of the party is Fiona who went to prison, the local members could deselect them for it (or they might not) but I can't see Corbyn actually doing it. Some MPs seem to be voting for Brexit with little/limited grief, although it helps not to go as far as Hoey, mainly those in leave areas.
TBH I quite like Nandy so I wouldn't deselect her for it although I wouldn't be delighted with it but maybe I am a bit less hardline than others on this. Although I feel like some of the pro EU lot* can sound more deselection happy than the craziest Corbynista when it comes to the subject.
*Not directed at you
Academic, surely. Is there going to be a Boris Deal to vote on?
The Hungarian wildcard is underestimated, though. What else could explain Boris's extraordinary confidence about 31st October?
The anglophile Hungarian foreign minister was quite impressive on Newsnight y'day.
Sky News - Rory Stewart resigns for the Conservative Party and will not stand at the general election.
I don't dislike Rory Stewart but how can you go from being a Tory prime ministerial candidate to resignation within a couple of months!?
It's nearly as bizarre as Sam Gymiah travelling from prospective Tory PM to Lib Dems in half that time?!
It says more about their personal narcissistic ambitions than any great love for the party that made them.
The party did not make Stewart they were lucky to get him
I liked Rory but there must be plenty of people now delighted they didn't back his leadership campaign given he's ducked out of politics, sometimes you have to stick things out when they don't go your way rather than run away (see also D Miliband). That is one thing I would give Mr Corbyn credit for during the Blair and Brown years.
How strongly will Corbyn whip his party against the Boris deal? It seems now that its not really in his interest to let Boris get a victory, and could whip very strongly against. In that scenario, will those like Nandy Snell and Smeeth still hold out and vote for it, they could face deselection if so.
The only MP Corbyn has actually thrown out of the party is Fiona who went to prison, the local members could deselect them for it (or they might not) but I can't see Corbyn actually doing it. Some MPs seem to be voting for Brexit with little/limited grief, although it helps not to go as far as Hoey, mainly those in leave areas.
TBH I quite like Nandy so I wouldn't deselect her for it although I wouldn't be delighted with it but maybe I am a bit less hardline than others on this. Although I feel like some of the pro EU lot* can sound more deselection happy than the craziest Corbynista when it comes to the subject.
*Not directed at you
Academic, surely. Is there going to be a Boris Deal to vote on?
The Hungarian wildcard is underestimated, though. What else could explain Boris's extraordinary confidence about 31st October?
The anglophile Hungarian foreign minister was quite impressive on Newsnight y'day.
I do wonder whether Boris/Cummings have had something stiched up with Hungary for weeks.
How strongly will Corbyn whip his party against the Boris deal? It seems now that its not really in his interest to let Boris get a victory, and could whip very strongly against. In that scenario, will those like Nandy Snell and Smeeth still hold out and vote for it, they could face deselection if so.
The only MP Corbyn has actually thrown out of the party is Fiona who went to prison, the local members could deselect them for it (or they might not) but I can't see Corbyn actually doing it. Some MPs seem to be voting for Brexit with little/limited grief, although it helps not to go as far as Hoey, mainly those in leave areas.
TBH I quite like Nandy so I wouldn't deselect her for it although I wouldn't be delighted with it but maybe I am a bit less hardline than others on this. Although I feel like some of the pro EU lot* can sound more deselection happy than the craziest Corbynista when it comes to the subject.
*Not directed at you
Academic, surely. Is there going to be a Boris Deal to vote on?
The Hungarian wildcard is underestimated, though. What else could explain Boris's extraordinary confidence about 31st October?
Extraordinary confidence plus a total absence of shame is Johnson's superpower. It is all bluff and bluster, ignore.
How strongly will Corbyn whip his party against the Boris deal? It seems now that its not really in his interest to let Boris get a victory, and could whip very strongly against. In that scenario, will those like Nandy Snell and Smeeth still hold out and vote for it, they could face deselection if so.
The only MP Corbyn has actually thrown out of the party is Fiona who went to prison, the local members could deselect them for it (or they might not) but I can't see Corbyn actually doing it. Some MPs seem to be voting for Brexit with little/limited grief, although it helps not to go as far as Hoey, mainly those in leave areas.
TBH I quite like Nandy so I wouldn't deselect her for it although I wouldn't be delighted with it but maybe I am a bit less hardline than others on this. Although I feel like some of the pro EU lot* can sound more deselection happy than the craziest Corbynista when it comes to the subject.
*Not directed at you
Academic, surely. Is there going to be a Boris Deal to vote on?
The Hungarian wildcard is underestimated, though. What else could explain Boris's extraordinary confidence about 31st October?
The anglophile Hungarian foreign minister was quite impressive on Newsnight y'day.
I do wonder whether Boris/Cummings have had something stiched up with Hungary for weeks.
Given the foreign minister thinks no deal would be a disaster how does that work with vetoing an extension .
This Hungary veto isn’t happening no matter how hard some Leavers would hope for it.
Orban is not going to pick a fight over this with the EU.
I liked Rory but there must be plenty of people now delighted they didn't back his leadership campaign given he's ducked out of politics, sometimes you have to stick things out when they don't go your way rather than run away (see also D Miliband). That is one thing I would give Mr Corbyn credit for during the Blair and Brown years.
That presumes that the Conservative Party might recover. Personally I expect it to get ever more Kipperish.
But we will and not just Spanish rights. All EU citizens already resident here will be able to stay on the same terms and conditions. The government hasn't been clear about much but they are clear about that. Going forward will be more bilateral and likely to vary from country to country.
But somehow people don't believe or trust them. I wonder why.
I'm sure that this'll have been mentioned but a bet on Tom Watson to be the next person to lose his job would be worhlooking at! They are releasing several of the redacted parts of the inquiry into the Leon Britten Harvey Procter Edward Heath etc affair this morning and according to the commentator it is devastating for the police (surprise surprise) and they expect resignatons....'What about Tom Watson?' 'Well this shows the danger of politicians trying to impose themselves on the news cycle. It was Tom Watson who helped pressurise the police into making their appaling blunders' said the lawyer.
I liked Rory but there must be plenty of people now delighted they didn't back his leadership campaign given he's ducked out of politics, sometimes you have to stick things out when they don't go your way rather than run away (see also D Miliband). That is one thing I would give Mr Corbyn credit for during the Blair and Brown years.
That presumes that the Conservative Party might recover. Personally I expect it to get ever more Kipperish.
+1 - the fact Rory and others are leaving tells you that the direction of travel for the Tory party is towards 1 issue insanity rather than returning to the centre ground.
Early flounce from Rory - it really was all about him.
You think Rory should stand and split the Tory vote in order to qualify for the parliamentary payoff for defeated MPs? It's a view crap spin line from Number 10.
Sky News - Rory Stewart resigns for the Conservative Party and will not stand at the general election.
I don't dislike Rory Stewart but how can you go from being a Tory prime ministerial candidate to resignation within a couple of months!?
It's nearly as bizarre as Sam Gymiah travelling from prospective Tory PM to Lib Dems in half that time?!
It says more about their personal narcissistic ambitions than any great love for the party that made them.
Probably by being kicked out of the parliamentary party (with presumed deselection at the next election). If that hadn't happened he'd perhaps still be there fighting to get the Conservatives back to sanity, likewise Gymiah.
Eton really does train politicians to be quitters doesn't it?
Apart from Jo Johnson, Rory Stewart and David Cameron, which Old Etonians have flounced? Apart from their Sirships Nicholas Soames (grandson of ...) and Oliver Letwin who had flouncing thrust upon them when Boris lied about a confidence vote?
Eden, MacMillan, Goldsmith... when the going gets tough, Etonians quit?
Early flounce from Rory - it really was all about him.
You think Rory should stand and split the Tory vote in order to qualify for the parliamentary payoff for defeated MPs? It's a view crap spin line from Number 10.
If 90+% of his colleagues prefer Boris over Rory then he’s unlikely to be the Messiah.
I'm sure that this'll have been mentioned but a bet on Tom Watson to be the next person to lose his job would be worhlooking at! They are releasing several of the redacted parts of the inquiry into the Leon Britten Harvey Procter Edward Heath etc affair this morning and according to the commentator it is devastating for the police (surprise surprise) and they expect resignatons....'What about Tom Watson?' 'Well this shows the danger of oliticians trying to impose themselves on the news cycle. It was Tom Watson who helped pressurise the police into making their appaling blunders'
Tom Watson just seems like some weirdo, peado obsessed conspiracy theorist odd ball now.
Sky News - Rory Stewart resigns for the Conservative Party and will not stand at the general election.
I don't dislike Rory Stewart but how can you go from being a Tory prime ministerial candidate to resignation within a couple of months!?
It's nearly as bizarre as Sam Gymiah travelling from prospective Tory PM to Lib Dems in half that time?!
It says more about their personal narcissistic ambitions than any great love for the party that made them.
Probably by being kicked out of the parliamentary party (with presumed deselection at the next election). If that hadn't happened he'd perhaps still be there fighting to get the Conservatives back to sanity, likewise Gymiah.
As an aside, don't want our politicians to have any great love for their party. I want them to be principled and do what they think is right and best for the country. I appreciate it's hard, but I've much more respect for those who quit cabinet/ministerial posts/their party than those who vote for things they obviously don't believe in. I lost respect for Amber Rudd when she joined Johnson's cabinet (particularly after he previous comments) regained some when she quit.
Early flounce from Rory - it really was all about him.
You think Rory should stand and split the Tory vote in order to qualify for the parliamentary payoff for defeated MPs? It's a view crap spin line from Number 10.
If 90+% of his colleagues prefer Boris over Rory then he’s unlikely to be the Messiah.
It also says a hell of a lot about the judgement of the Conservative Party.
I'm sure that this'll have been mentioned but a bet on Tom Watson to be the next person to lose his job would be worhlooking at! They are releasing several of the redacted parts of the inquiry into the Leon Britten Harvey Procter Edward Heath etc affair this morning and according to the commentator it is devastating for the police (surprise surprise) and they expect resignatons....'What about Tom Watson?' 'Well this shows the danger of oliticians trying to impose themselves on the news cycle. It was Tom Watson who helped pressurise the police into making their appaling blunders'
Tom Watson just seems like some weirdo, peado obsessed conspiracy theorist odd ball now.
Sky News - Rory Stewart resigns for the Conservative Party and will not stand at the general election.
I don't dislike Rory Stewart but how can you go from being a Tory prime ministerial candidate to resignation within a couple of months!?
It's nearly as bizarre as Sam Gymiah travelling from prospective Tory PM to Lib Dems in half that time?!
It says more about their personal narcissistic ambitions than any great love for the party that made them.
Probably by being kicked out of the parliamentary party (with presumed deselection at the next election). If that hadn't happened he'd perhaps still be there fighting to get the Conservatives back to sanity, likewise Gymiah.
Well he didn’t get thrown out by accident - he did it through disloyalty.
Early flounce from Rory - it really was all about him.
You think Rory should stand and split the Tory vote in order to qualify for the parliamentary payoff for defeated MPs? It's a view crap spin line from Number 10.
If 90+% of his colleagues prefer Boris over Rory then he’s unlikely to be the Messiah.
It also says a hell of a lot about the judgement of the Conservative Party.
I'm pretty sure Rory wouldn't be polling 10 points ahead of Labour. Their judgement is fine, it was a weak bunch of candidates and they chose the guy with the best chance of winning them an election.
Sky News - Rory Stewart resigns for the Conservative Party and will not stand at the general election.
I don't dislike Rory Stewart but how can you go from being a Tory prime ministerial candidate to resignation within a couple of months!?
It's nearly as bizarre as Sam Gymiah travelling from prospective Tory PM to Lib Dems in half that time?!
It says more about their personal narcissistic ambitions than any great love for the party that made them.
The party did not make Stewart they were lucky to get him
I liked Rory but there must be plenty of people now delighted they didn't back his leadership campaign given he's ducked out of politics, sometimes you have to stick things out when they don't go your way rather than run away (see also D Miliband). That is one thing I would give Mr Corbyn credit for during the Blair and Brown years.
Agree with this. He wanted to be prime minister, and when that became unlikely, decided to quit. Same with David Miliband really.
Early flounce from Rory - it really was all about him.
You think Rory should stand and split the Tory vote in order to qualify for the parliamentary payoff for defeated MPs? It's a view crap spin line from Number 10.
If 90+% of his colleagues prefer Boris over Rory then he’s unlikely to be the Messiah.
Tory MPs, the self-styled most sophisticated electorate in the world, always lumber themselves with the wrong leader. It is an iron law of politics, dating back to when the damn fools elected Mrs Thatcher by mistake.
Sky News - Rory Stewart resigns for the Conservative Party and will not stand at the general election.
I don't dislike Rory Stewart but how can you go from being a Tory prime ministerial candidate to resignation within a couple of months!?
It's nearly as bizarre as Sam Gymiah travelling from prospective Tory PM to Lib Dems in half that time?!
It says more about their personal narcissistic ambitions than any great love for the party that made them.
The party did not make Stewart they were lucky to get him
I liked Rory but there must be plenty of people now delighted they didn't back his leadership campaign given he's ducked out of politics, sometimes you have to stick things out when they don't go your way rather than run away (see also D Miliband). That is one thing I would give Mr Corbyn credit for during the Blair and Brown years.
Agree with this. He wanted to be prime minister, and when that became unlikely, decided to quit. Same with David Miliband really.
Although I dont think Rory will ever be the king over water, but other than that, yep!
Sky News - Rory Stewart resigns for the Conservative Party and will not stand at the general election.
I don't dislike Rory Stewart but how can you go from being a Tory prime ministerial candidate to resignation within a couple of months!?
It's nearly as bizarre as Sam Gymiah travelling from prospective Tory PM to Lib Dems in half that time?!
It says more about their personal narcissistic ambitions than any great love for the party that made them.
Probably by being kicked out of the parliamentary party (with presumed deselection at the next election). If that hadn't happened he'd perhaps still be there fighting to get the Conservatives back to sanity, likewise Gymiah.
You would think that Stewart would be the kind of person who had good relationships with his local Association chairman and activists. If they've told him that they will be campaigning for an official Conservative Party candidate at the next election you can understand why he would not relish fighting an election against them, and the opportunity to return to the whip seems to be diminishing.
I agree the questions are a little leading, but they highlight a problem for the government with its People (ie Johnson) versus MPs rhetoric. It depends on those MPs to get Brexit through without a second referendum.
Not just that, but the whole strategy is built around a pre-brexit election, and backfires hilariously if the opposition have the presence if mind to do a GNU.
Him: BACK ME OR LOSE THE WHIP Them: Guess we're on the opposition side now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Him: GET BREXIT DONE Them: OK, you couldn't so it so we will
Him: THE PEOPLE DECIDE NOT PARLIAMENT Them: Referendum it is then
Early flounce from Rory - it really was all about him.
You think Rory should stand and split the Tory vote in order to qualify for the parliamentary payoff for defeated MPs? It's a view crap spin line from Number 10.
If 90+% of his colleagues prefer Boris over Rory then he’s unlikely to be the Messiah.
It also says a hell of a lot about the judgement of the Conservative Party.
I'm pretty sure Rory wouldn't be polling 10 points ahead of Labour. Their judgement is fine, it was a weak bunch of candidates and they chose the guy with the best chance of winning them an election.
Spot on, the majority of Tory MPs are quiet about Boris perceived failings because they get the doorstep feedback and see the polling
F*ck. Just seen the Rory news. This country is utterly finished if we can't find a place for someone of his abilities, experience and talent in the government.
Tragic.
And all remaining Tory members need to take a good long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves what the point of the modern conservative movement is.
Because whatever it is, it don't relate to anything you might call good governance or traditional conservative values.
Maybe Jake Berry is just trying to get ahead of the crowd, Kippers are standard now. The hardcore need to go further to stand out.
"Britain First" is what Jo Cox's killer shouted as he murdered her. If this is true then Berry should have the whip withdrawn. Assuming it happened, it is a plain expression of support for fascism and terrorism from the Tory front bench.
Comments
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49931937
We have a political system not fit for purpose.
"There's a pretty obvious way to find out what the voters want currently in this context."
Why would anyone bother voting? We had a referendum and the result was ignored. We'd be offered a choice between staying in and Remain. Leaving with a deal would not be on offer, because the EU can see no reason to negotiate now they can see the winning post in sight.
Go back to your constituencies and prepare for an accelerated political union.
Ha! The first rule of politics is being able to count...
The "Conservative and Unionist" party has become the English Brexit Lite Party as party members discard the Union in favour of Brexit. Fiscal conservatism has been binned, respect for the rule of law is secondary and constitutional conventions and norms are trashed.
The Conservative party has become subsumed by the ERG death cult and the personal ambition of Boris Johnson.
"'Just cos you're paranoid ......'"
I've always thought that if we did leave, it would be a BINO, and I've said so often on here. I now think even that fig leaf will be discarded.
It won't affect me much as my opinion of professional politicians was always low. I worked on the basis that if you seek election to Parliament, you have an inflated opinion of your worth. Catch 22 usually applies.
As for political union, it actually makes sense for the EU. A unified European country makes more sense than a federal system and we'll soon be enjoying that experience.
Once out of the EU the Tories will run amok , next to go will be the ECHR .
But, rather like the Republican adoption of Trump, the abandonment of the party's principles might be eventually be fatal.
Brexit Party (Farage)
Brexit Party (Johnson)
A council chief who was sacked after being suspended on full pay for more than six years has said he will appeal the decision.
Anthony O'Sullivan, the former chief executive of Caerphilly council, said he had "nothing to apologise for".
He was suspended in 2013 amid arguments over pay for senior staff and earned a salary of £137,000 a year since then.
Councillors decided to dismiss him without notice at a meeting on Wednesday night.
The row is thought to have cost the council more than £4m.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49930673
"If there was a referendum between Remain and May's deal, organised by a caretaker government for example,"
I've argued that to reflect the referendum result, we should offer a choice between alternative Leave options?
This would be like your team losing in the semi-final and still going to Wembley to compete against a depleted victor?
This whole saga does not bode well for "Global Britain" it must be said. Those arguing that we have a great future of global free trade in our future must understand that many overseas are looking at us with incredulity. Japan have made it clear often, but other countries will either see us as 1) an easy mark or 2) a crazy person not worth doing business with.
Consider that all trade agreements will mean compromise, usually in the direction of the more powerful person at the table, and we are going to be the least powerful player on most tables, we are often going to get the short end of any trade deal.
Chlorinated chicken and wormy pork are only the beginning.
Had any other modern Prime Minister acted, and been caught out, in the way this one has, they would undoubtedly have been handed the loaded revolver and tumbler of whisky by now. And yet there has not been a peep out of the Conservative ecosystem. I wouldn't be surprised if that- or the calculated insult of the "compromise plan" (also lapped up by the faithful) was the final straw.
I wish old-school Conservatives weren't reading the writing on the wall, but I can't blame them or deny what it says on the wall.
TBH I quite like Nandy so I wouldn't deselect her for it although I wouldn't be delighted with it but maybe I am a bit less hardline than others on this. Although I feel like some of the pro EU lot* can sound more deselection happy than the craziest Corbynista when it comes to the subject.
*Not directed at you
Something old, something borrowed and something blue.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49804858
The Labour Council leader also stepped down in September and was referred to the Standards Committee (dodgy share dealings, all undeclared).
Fortunately, Labour have packed the Standards Committee with their place-men & place-women. The Ombudsman for Wales Nick Bennett is also close to ‘Welsh’ Labour, having been in business with a former Labour minister.
So, I'm sure he'll be cleared, maybe slapped on the knuckles,
There is endemic mismanagement of these tiny South Walian Councils.
Sadly, under Labour, Wales has become a more corrupt & poorer version of Sicily.
Basically it would be a mechanism for falsely claiming some kind of popular will for an outcome likely to be opposed by 65pc or more of the electorate, which just doesn’t seem like the kind of thing that turns out well. (Not that any of the options right now pass the ‘likely to turn out well’ test)
Yes, I want to stay.
No, I don’t want to leave.“
Fair and balanced.
The Hungarian wildcard is underestimated, though. What else could explain Boris's extraordinary confidence about 31st October?
Edit: On the second bit Boris loves a bit of bluster, I try not to read too much into it either way.
It had a decade long run so didn't do too badly.
When will we take Berlin?
This Hungary veto isn’t happening no matter how hard some Leavers would hope for it.
Orban is not going to pick a fight over this with the EU.
Maybe Jake Berry is just trying to get ahead of the crowd, Kippers are standard now. The hardcore need to go further to stand out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a6HNXtdvVQ
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7536919/Kamala-Harris-asks-Nevada-town-hall-audience-ready-presidency-say-no.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailus
Not sure I should have bothered !
https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/16699216.tory-rory-stewart-victorious-in-fight-for-penrith-and-the-border-seat/
Now to check William Whitelaw.
Him: BACK ME OR LOSE THE WHIP
Them: Guess we're on the opposition side now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Him: GET BREXIT DONE
Them: OK, you couldn't so it so we will
Him: THE PEOPLE DECIDE NOT PARLIAMENT
Them: Referendum it is then
Tragic.
And all remaining Tory members need to take a good long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves what the point of the modern conservative movement is.
Because whatever it is, it don't relate to anything you might call good governance or traditional conservative values.