You're translating Varadkar wrong everyone. He's saying F off
Stock up on canned goods.
That depends entirely on whether the EU consider the proposals reasonable and if they therefore consider Ireland is being unreasonable. I make no judgement on that but I do know that if the EU decide this should be the deal then Ireland are very unlikely to be able to stop it since the decision woukd be by QMV.
The UK's proposal (while unfinished) is broadly a good one. It explicitly hands sovereignty to the people of Northern Ireland to choose whether or not to remain in something akin to the backstop.
Now, there is much that is left undecided by this exit. But that's the nature of negotiating the final arrangements in the transition period.
All-in-all, it's a small but positive improvement on Mrs May's deal and we, the EU and the RoI should take it.
It hands the DUP a veto over whether the Good Friday Agreement continues to be respected, an Agreement the DUP has always opposed. It creates a customs border in Ireland, when the UK had committed to no border. The Irish would be crazy to agree to it and I would be pretty surprised if they do. I think this is a deal that is designed to be rejected, teeing up an election where Johnson blames everyone but the Tory party for the hole the Tory party has landed us in. Who knows, it might well work.
Too many people think the DUP are NI but they are not this is where it fails and rightly so.
Yet the SNP are never challenged that they aren’t Scotland.
That is a massive whopper of a fib. The Ruth Davidson Truibute No Surrender Party keeps saying that, whenever they are not going on about indyref.
Check out the comments. Brexit alliance fracturing. Nigel looking like he is over reaching
I think Nigel blew it with many Leavers when he started calling for Boris to resign over the proroguing fiasco.
Farage was very supportative of proroguing Parliament when it was first announced. Then when it went wrong in SC he starts calling for the PM to resign?
He looked very flaky and opportunist.
If we did need a Con/BXP coalition to get Brexit done I now wouldn't trust him not to cut and run and the first sign of enemy fire to be honest...
You're translating Varadkar wrong everyone. He's saying F off
Stock up on canned goods.
That depends entirely on whether the EU consider the proposals reasonable and if they therefore consider Ireland is being unreasonable. I make no judgement on that but I do know that if the EU decide this should be the deal then Ireland are very unlikely to be able to stop it since the decision woukd be by QMV.
The UK's proposal (while unfinished) is broadly a good one. It explicitly hands sovereignty to the people of Northern Ireland to choose whether or not to remain in something akin to the backstop.
Now, there is much that is left undecided by this exit. But that's the nature of negotiating the final arrangements in the transition period.
All-in-all, it's a small but positive improvement on Mrs May's deal and we, the EU and the RoI should take it.
It hands the DUP a veto over whether the Good Friday Agreement continues to be respected, an Agreement the DUP has always opposed. It creates a customs border in Ireland, when the UK had committed to no border. The Irish would be crazy to agree to it and I would be pretty surprised if they do. I think this is a deal that is designed to be rejected, teeing up an election where Johnson blames everyone but the Tory party for the hole the Tory party has landed us in. Who knows, it might well work.
Too many people think the DUP are NI but they are not this is where it fails and rightly so.
I'm puzzled by this proposal given the likelihood of massive ructions sooner or later with the DUP tail wagging the two states' dogs. I did find myself wondering if Mr Johnson is trying to resolve the Brexit problem by pushing Ireland into reunification.
That would be better for everyone.
Rather an arrogant view. Who are you to tell everyone in Ireland what's best for them?
No, Trump actually wants to run against the left liberal Warren rather than the centrist, charismatic Biden but hopes to persuade Democrats through statements like this not to pick the candidate he most fears
You're translating Varadkar wrong everyone. He's saying F off
Stock up on canned goods.
That depends entirely on whether the EU consider the proposals reasonable and if they therefore consider Ireland is being unreasonable. I make no judgement on that but I do know that if the EU decide this should be the deal then Ireland are very unlikely to be able to stop it since the decision woukd be by QMV.
The UK's proposal (while unfinished) is broadly a good one. It explicitly hands sovereignty to the people of Northern Ireland to choose whether or not to remain in something akin to the backstop.
Now, there is much that is left undecided by this exit. But that's the nature of negotiating the final arrangements in the transition period.
All-in-all, it's a small but positive improvement on Mrs May's deal and we, the EU and the RoI should take it.
It hands the DUP a veto over whether the Good Friday Agreement continues to be respected, an Agreement the DUP has always opposed. It creates a customs border in Ireland, when the UK had committed to no border. The Irish would be crazy to agree to it and I would be pretty surprised if they do. I think this is a deal that is designed to be rejected, teeing up an election where Johnson blames everyone but the Tory party for the hole the Tory party has landed us in. Who knows, it might well work.
Too many people think the DUP are NI but they are not this is where it fails and rightly so.
I'm puzzled by this proposal given the likelihood of massive ructions sooner or later with the DUP tail wagging the two states' dogs. I did find myself wondering if Mr Johnson is trying to resolve the Brexit problem by pushing Ireland into reunification.
That would be better for everyone.
Rather an arrogant view. Who are you to tell everyone in Ireland what's best for them?
Buried under the Backstop changes are very significant changes to the proposed future relationship. I expect once tomorrow's headlines are out of the way we will see a genuinely new development. Actual Corbynista opposition to the substance of the Deal as opposed to cynical tactics. Now Boris has junked all the level playing field and convergence stuff even some soft Lexiters will wobble. There will also be early demands to see the new PD which will move well away from Labour's position.
If you add in Alliance comming off the fence and some Unionist voices starting to attack the DUP from the right on it Boris has certainly shaken things up. Too early to tell if he has solved anything.
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
Check out the comments. Brexit alliance fracturing. Nigel looking like he is over reaching
I think Nigel blew it with many Leavers when he started calling for Boris to resign over the proroguing fiasco.
Farage was very supportative of proroguing Parliament when it was first announced. Then when it went wrong in SC he starts calling for the PM to resign?
He looked very flaky and opportunist.
If we did need a Con/BXP coalition to get Brexit done I now wouldn't trust him not to cut and run and the first sign of enemy fire to be honest...
There are two fights to the finish going on: Leave v Remain which is mostly Boris v Most Others, and Boris v Farage. In the first one or other is going to win outright, which makes it unusual in a nation of middling turn taking politics. With Boris v Farage, they cannot both win now, as Farage has distanced himself too far from the Tories, but they can of course both lose. Expect the leave forces to unite behind Boris, and the question shortly to be 'Nigel Who?'. Sad in a way for those of us who enjoy the vanity fair of the passing show, because he has been good value and IF leave prevails I doubt if it would have done so without him. But with Boris v Farage I would back Boris. As to Remain v Leave, it's almost as close to 50/50 as it can be, though I think Remain is ahead by a neck.
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
We always have been that’s the only way to protect his backers off shore investments being subject to tax.
Buried under the Backstop changes are very significant changes to the proposed future relationship. I expect once tomorrow's headlines are out of the way we will see a genuinely new development. Actual Corbynista opposition to the substance of the Deal as opposed to cynical tactics. Now Boris has junked all the level playing field and convergence stuff even some soft Lexiters will wobble. There will also be early demands to see the new PD which will move well away from Labour's position.
If you add in Alliance comming off the fence and some Unionist voices starting to attack the DUP from the right on it Boris has certainly shaken things up. Too early to tell if he has solved anything.
There are clearly around 20 Labour MPs who would vote for any Deal going. The problem for Johnson is that any deal he brings to the Commons will be unacceptable to the ERG as it will involve further compromises by the UK government.
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
The Francois/Baker problem: any deal good enough for the EU to accept has to be bad for Britain.
Different tone from Blackford today on remain tactics. Nicola has obviously got in his ear and reminded him it's not some weird parlour game where you get to tell PADFIELD at Johnson as he finds some weird route round the Benn act
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
Baker and Francois have already said if the DUP support the deal (which they do) the ERG will support the deal?
Different tone from Blackford today on remain tactics. Nicola has obviously got in his ear and reminded him it's not some weird parlour game where you get to tell PADFIELD at Johnson as he finds some weird route round the Benn act
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
Only if the Opposition majority in the Commons makes a total horlicks of its winning position.
Assuming that they don't, No Deal can only happen after the Conservatives win an outright victory in a General Election (unless the EU27 become so exhausted by this process that they refuse an extension and Parliament fails subsequently to revoke, but that seems highly unlikely at this stage.)
A Tory victory is not impossible, of course, but I don't see how they manage it with the SNP being as strong as they are, the Lib Dems having the wind back in their sails, and the virtual invulnerability of most of Labour's low turnout/high robot voter seats.
No Brexit looks more likely than No Deal at this stage.
If the EU approves the deal they should at the same time resolve that if parliament rejects it no further substantive extension will be granted. That will seal UK approval.
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
Barker and Francois have already said if the DUP support the deal (which they do) the ERG will support the deal?
If a deal gets to the Commons for a vote it will not look like Johnson’s deal. That is the problem. Johnson knows that.
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
Baker and Francois have already said if the DUP support the deal (which they do) the ERG will support the deal?
Probably only Grieve against at the rate it's going. Grieve and Anne Marie Morris
For the govt to be calling for an urgent election and at the same time planning to hold a QS sounds like part of a plan, whether cunning or not, to shaft someone. What is that plan? Is it just to force at election or something else?
No, Trump actually wants to run against the left liberal Warren rather than the centrist, charismatic Biden but hopes to persuade Democrats through statements like this not to pick the candidate he most fears
Just as a matter of interest, what do you think the word "charismatic" means?
Because I think a lot of misunderstanding on here comes from us not have the same definitions of words.
Folksy, good with people but ruthless when required.
However policy wise Warren would also be the most left liberal Democratic candidate since McGovern in 1972 and we all know how that ended for the Democrats, that year they rejected another centrist VP, Hubert Humphrey, who would have given Nixon a much tighter race
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
Baker and Francois have already said if the DUP support the deal (which they do) the ERG will support the deal?
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
Only if the Opposition majority in the Commons makes a total horlicks of its winning position.
Assuming that they don't, No Deal can only happen after the Conservatives win an outright victory in a General Election (unless the EU27 become so exhausted by this process that they refuse an extension and Parliament fails subsequently to revoke, but that seems highly unlikely at this stage.)
A Tory victory is not impossible, of course, but I don't see how they manage it with the SNP being as strong as they are, the Lib Dems having the wind back in their sails, and the virtual invulnerability of most of Labour's low turnout/high robot voter seats.
No Brexit looks more likely than No Deal at this stage.
I wouldn't go that far, but for Boris to win big on little more than a third of the vote is a tall order, even with double digit poll leads. There are many opportunities for the two thirds not voting for Boris to organise against him. He really needs to file the BP down to single figures and be pushing the high 30s himself.
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
Baker and Francois have already said if the DUP support the deal (which they do) the ERG will support the deal?
Probably only Grieve against at the rate it's going. Grieve and Anne Marie Morris
Different tone from Blackford today on remain tactics. Nicola has obviously got in his ear and reminded him it's not some weird parlour game where you get to tell PADFIELD at Johnson as he finds some weird route round the Benn act
PADFIELD ?
It’s a very famous law case from I think 1968 which cemented parliamentary sovereignty. Effectively courts can’t overturn laws made by parliament . At best you might get interpretation but they will not suspend the Benn Act .
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
We always have been that’s the only way to protect his backers off shore investments being subject to tax.
I hope you have made your No Deal preparations by stocking up on a mountain of tin-foil......
Different tone from Blackford today on remain tactics. Nicola has obviously got in his ear and reminded him it's not some weird parlour game where you get to tell PADFIELD at Johnson as he finds some weird route round the Benn act
Baker on sky ‘we have to bring the country together, as long as I bring TBP voters on board and the DUP are on board that’s fine’ so the 48% which is now more like 52% really don’t matter.
Peter Sissons is one of the reasons I first became interested in the news and current affairs in the late 80s / early 90s while I was still at primary school, along with Michael Buerk and Moira Stuart. Very sad news. RIP.
Different tone from Blackford today on remain tactics. Nicola has obviously got in his ear and reminded him it's not some weird parlour game where you get to tell PADFIELD at Johnson as he finds some weird route round the Benn act
PADFIELD ?
It’s a very famous law case from I think 1968 which cemented parliamentary sovereignty. Effectively courts can’t overturn laws made by parliament . At best you might get interpretation but they will not suspend the Benn Act .
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
The Francois/Baker problem: any deal good enough for the EU to accept has to be bad for Britain.
Yep - the only Brexit the ERG will accept is one which allows it to claim the EU was defeated. As that won’t happen, there is no Deal Johnson could bring to the Commons that they could support. And Johnson knows this. That’s why it will be No Deal at some point.
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
Baker and Francois have already said if the DUP support the deal (which they do) the ERG will support the deal?
Probably only Grieve against at the rate it's going. Grieve and Anne Marie Morris
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
The Francois/Baker problem: any deal good enough for the EU to accept has to be bad for Britain.
Yep - the only Brexit the ERG will accept is one which allows it to claim the EU was defeated. As that won’t happen, there is no Deal Johnson could bring to the Commons that they could support. And Johnson knows this. That’s why it will be No Deal at some point.
Yep. The only reason we are hearing that ERG will buy this one, is they know the EU will not support it.
Lets say boris does get a deal, does his poll rating go up or down?
Up !
Farages betrayal narrative will soon be overtaken by the fact that the UK has actually left.
I don’t like Johnson however if we leave with an orderly exit and a deal then I’ll say well done.
Or down, the header shows most people do not want to Leave. Why would they be impressed?
It wont go down because of that....as all those who are fired up.remainers arent voting tory at the moment. I think it is more those who think boris has sold them a pup.
Another question, what if boris gets a deal but HoC vote it down...
May got a deal the HOC voted it down so no difference there. The real problem in my mind is it gives a minority in NI the ability to control the outcome which is a disgrace and I bet will not go down well in Congress.
It gives Stormont the control of the outcome as the representative body of NI
Stormont has some unique minority protection features because of its troubled history
But I guess the logic of what you are saying is you’d can the Belfast Agreement?
No, Trump actually wants to run against the left liberal Warren rather than the centrist, charismatic Biden but hopes to persuade Democrats through statements like this not to pick the candidate he most fears
Just as a matter of interest, what do you think the word "charismatic" means?
Because I think a lot of misunderstanding on here comes from us not have the same definitions of words.
Folksy, good with people but ruthless when required.
However policy wise Warren would also be the most left liberal Democratic candidate since McGovern in 1972 and we all know how that ended for the Democrats, that year they rejected another centrist VP, Hubert Humphrey, who would have given Nixon a much tighter race
I just don't see her beating Trump. But maybe he wont be the opponent after all.
For the govt to be calling for an urgent election and at the same time planning to hold a QS sounds like part of a plan, whether cunning or not, to shaft someone. What is that plan? Is it just to force at election or something else?
The idea is that the Deal will be parr of the QS, to try to avoid it being voted down
Am I right in thinking the Northern Ireland Assembly will now have some say over the backstop?
Yes after 4 years it votes whether to stay aligned with the EU or by default moves to the UK rules which are likely to have diverged by then.
Big problem for the EU and Ireland is this effectively gives the DUP a veto . There’s no way they’ll agree to that .
On the contrary, the EU will think (probably correctly) that Northern Ireland will love a backstop that sees them both in the EU and the UK. There will businesses that setup in the province to benefit from that dual status.
And removing it will therefore always become something for another day.
I would also like to point out that this is almost exactly what I predicted, and which I was poopooed about on here.
With all due respect, but this new proposal does not place NI in both the UK and the EU.
HMG have moved from their proposal of:
"Let's substitute the impending hard NI/RoI border with two hard borders, demarking a no-mans land - exactly around that highly contested border region - which will be uncontrollable."
to their new proposal of:
"Let's replace the impending hard NI/RoI border with a hard NI/RoI customs border plus a hard NI/UK regulatory border, and to round out the picture, let's place an explosive devise underneath it all and hand the trigger for that to Arlene and the troglodytes."
It is no surprise that the entire NI business community (CBI NI, FSB NI, Manufacturing NI, etc.) have immediately rejected the new proposals.
The EU side is merely searching for a formulation of the rejection that is as polite and well explained as possible, to deflect the blame back to where it belongs.
Baker on sky ‘we have to bring the country together, as long as I bring TBP voters on board and the DUP are on board that’s fine’ so the 48% which is now more like 52% really don’t matter.
To be absolutely fair there seem to be very few people left in this whole nasty business who are still interested in making any effort to reach an accommodation with the other side. Too much time has passed and positions have become too entrenched.
If I'm right and the Remain politicians win out in the end, then I seriously doubt that they have any plan for how to deal with the resentment of all those Leave voters who will feel that they've been robbed, beyond simply ignoring them.
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
Lets say boris does get a deal, does his poll rating go up or down?
Up !
Farages betrayal narrative will soon be overtaken by the fact that the UK has actually left.
I don’t like Johnson however if we leave with an orderly exit and a deal then I’ll say well done.
Or down, the header shows most people do not want to Leave. Why would they be impressed?
It wont go down because of that....as all those who are fired up.remainers arent voting tory at the moment. I think it is more those who think boris has sold them a pup.
Another question, what if boris gets a deal but HoC vote it down...
May got a deal the HOC voted it down so no difference there. The real problem in my mind is it gives a minority in NI the ability to control the outcome which is a disgrace and I bet will not go down well in Congress.
It gives Stormont the control of the outcome as the representative body of NI
Stormont has some unique minority protection features because of its troubled history
But I guess the logic of what you are saying is you’d can the Belfast Agreement?
Well it would be a start if stormont actually sat but by reading of this is that is effectively a DUP veto
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
The Francois/Baker problem: any deal good enough for the EU to accept has to be bad for Britain.
Yep - the only Brexit the ERG will accept is one which allows it to claim the EU was defeated. As that won’t happen, there is no Deal Johnson could bring to the Commons that they could support. And Johnson knows this. That’s why it will be No Deal at some point.
If EU say, oh for goodness sake had enough of all this, go on then have this deal that clearly gets through your commons, then they are defeated.
Ruth and Gareth know full well how much worse for the Potteries Boris' deal is compared to May's. They have judge whether they would rather reckon with Leave voters now or all voters in Stoke in 15 months time.
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
The EU has not rejected it out of hand while Baker has been supportive
For the govt to be calling for an urgent election and at the same time planning to hold a QS sounds like part of a plan, whether cunning or not, to shaft someone. What is that plan? Is it just to force at election or something else?
The idea is that the Deal will be parr of the QS, to try to avoid it being voted down
You can’t attach a MV to the QS. It’s a non starter and even if you could it would be idiotic even by the standards of this government .
Effectively when you need opposition votes on a deal you’d be asking for them to vote yes to the Tory economic plans .
Lets say boris does get a deal, does his poll rating go up or down?
Up !
Farages betrayal narrative will soon be overtaken by the fact that the UK has actually left.
I don’t like Johnson however if we leave with an orderly exit and a deal then I’ll say well done.
Or down, the header shows most people do not want to Leave. Why would they be impressed?
It wont go down because of that....as all those who are fired up.remainers arent voting tory at the moment. I think it is more those who think boris has sold them a pup.
Another question, what if boris gets a deal but HoC vote it down...
May got a deal the HOC voted it down so no difference there. The real problem in my mind is it gives a minority in NI the ability to control the outcome which is a disgrace and I bet will not go down well in Congress.
It gives Stormont the control of the outcome as the representative body of NI
Stormont has some unique minority protection features because of its troubled history
But I guess the logic of what you are saying is you’d can the Belfast Agreement?
Well it would be a start if stormont actually sat but by reading of this is that is effectively a DUP veto
The DUP is the only major group in NI - political or business - to have expressed support for the proposals.
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
he speaks sense on this. why would the EU trust BJ when they didn't fully trust the more trustworthy TM?
Because BJ is an infinitely better politician than TM. Like or loathe him he is personable. TM was Sphinx-like, robotic and probably, completely not to the taste of the other heads of government who had to interact with her on a human level.
No politician is trustworthy. All lie, cheat and deceive to achieve their goals. It’s what they do. You never know - Boris might actually be much more to their liking than the earnest, straight May. I’m sure meetings are more fun with him in attendance...(!)
For the govt to be calling for an urgent election and at the same time planning to hold a QS sounds like part of a plan, whether cunning or not, to shaft someone. What is that plan? Is it just to force at election or something else?
The idea is that the Deal will be parr of the QS, to try to avoid it being voted down
You can’t attach a MV to the QS. It’s a non starter and even if you could it would be idiotic even by the standards of this government .
Effectively when you need opposition votes on a deal you’d be asking for them to vote yes to the Tory economic plans .
The Tory economic plans seem to consist of lots and lots of money flowing into Labour areas for hospitals, schools and bobbys on the beat.
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
The EU has not rejected it out of hand while Baker has been supportive
Yes, the EU is not so stupid as to say no immediately. But they will require changes which Baker would not accept. Thus, Johnson will be able to blame the EU for No Deal, which is what this is all about, of course.
Baker on sky ‘we have to bring the country together, as long as I bring TBP voters on board and the DUP are on board that’s fine’ so the 48% which is now more like 52% really don’t matter.
To be absolutely fair there seem to be very few people left in this whole nasty business who are still interested in making any effort to reach an accommodation with the other side. Too much time has passed and positions have become too entrenched.
If I'm right and the Remain politicians win out in the end, then I seriously doubt that they have any plan for how to deal with the resentment of all those Leave voters who will feel that they've been robbed, beyond simply ignoring them.
You sort out the problems, if you can, that caused the leave vote Build houses Invest in the NHS Invest in education Implement the immigration controls that have always been there If you do that then the reasons for people voting leave go away
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
The EU has not rejected it out of hand while Baker has been supportive
Yes, the EU is not so stupid as to say no immediately. But they will require changes which Baker would not accept. Thus, Johnson will be able to blame the EU for No Deal, which is what this is all about, of course.
They’ve been very quick to reject things in the past. And very blunt.
Lets say boris does get a deal, does his poll rating go up or down?
Up !
Farages betrayal narrative will soon be overtaken by the fact that the UK has actually left.
I don’t like Johnson however if we leave with an orderly exit and a deal then I’ll say well done.
Or down, the header shows most people do not want to Leave. Why would they be impressed?
It wont go down because of that....as all those who are fired up.remainers arent voting tory at the moment. I think it is more those who think boris has sold them a pup.
Another question, what if boris gets a deal but HoC vote it down...
May got a deal the HOC voted it down so no difference there. The real problem in my mind is it gives a minority in NI the ability to control the outcome which is a disgrace and I bet will not go down well in Congress.
It gives Stormont the control of the outcome as the representative body of NI
Stormont has some unique minority protection features because of its troubled history
But I guess the logic of what you are saying is you’d can the Belfast Agreement?
Well it would be a start if stormont actually sat but by reading of this is that is effectively a DUP veto
The DUP is the only major group in NI - political or business - to have expressed support for the proposals.
I suspect their will be some movement on this Stormont veto idea possibly in relation to a refernedum for NI followed by a review by Stormont every ten years rather than four?
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
Go on, share one of the jokes.
No. They need context and I need paying.
You get my thread headers for free.
I’ll give you a joke for free.
One in four frogs is a leap frog 😃
Is that still the last post?
Where’s the tumbleweed emoji when needed
Too many people getting off on Johnson’s conference speech to keep things going, when they have exhausted themselves they will be back.
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
Peter Sissons is one of the reasons I first became interested in the news and current affairs in the late 80s / early 90s while I was still at primary school, along with Michael Buerk and Moira Stuart. Very sad news. RIP.
Queens speech is a massive playground for the Con manifesto- no brainer to have one.
Tax cuts and NHS bungs - which Labour will vote down - the fools.
But the opposition could tag a "tax transparency" amendment on to the QS. Would Johnson throw the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man under the bus to get his way?
No, Trump actually wants to run against the left liberal Warren rather than the centrist, charismatic Biden but hopes to persuade Democrats through statements like this not to pick the candidate he most fears
Just as a matter of interest, what do you think the word "charismatic" means?
Because I think a lot of misunderstanding on here comes from us not have the same definitions of words.
Folksy, good with people but ruthless when required.
However policy wise Warren would also be the most left liberal Democratic candidate since McGovern in 1972 and we all know how that ended for the Democrats, that year they rejected another centrist VP, Hubert Humphrey, who would have given Nixon a much tighter race
I just don't see her beating Trump. But maybe he wont be the opponent after all.
I agree she won't beat Trump and he is still the likely GOP nominee as the sitting President
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
Go on, share one of the jokes.
No. They need context and I need paying.
You get my thread headers for free.
I’ll give you a joke for free.
One in four frogs is a leap frog 😃
Badoom tish!
An Englishman, a Scotsman and an Irishman walk out a bar. The Englishman wanted to go so they all had to leave. 😃
Am I right in thinking the Northern Ireland Assembly will now have some say over the backstop?
Yes after 4 years it votes whether to stay aligned with the EU or by default moves to the UK rules which are likely to have diverged by then.
Big problem for the EU and Ireland is this effectively gives the DUP a veto . There’s no way they’ll agree to that .
On the contrary, the EU will think (probably correctly) that Northern Ireland will love a backstop that sees them both in the EU and the UK. There will businesses that setup in the province to benefit from that dual status.
And removing it will therefore always become something for another day.
I would also like to point out that this is almost exactly what I predicted, and which I was poopooed about on here.
With all due respect, but this new proposal does not place NI in both the UK and the EU.
HMG have moved from their proposal of:
"Let's substitute the impending hard NI/RoI border with two hard borders, demarking a no-mans land - exactly around that highly contested border region - which will be uncontrollable."
to their new proposal of:
"Let's replace the impending hard NI/RoI border with a hard NI/RoI customs border plus a hard NI/UK regulatory border, and to round out the picture, let's place an explosive devise underneath it all and hand the trigger for that to Arlene and the troglodytes."
It is no surprise that the entire NI business community (CBI NI, FSB NI, Manufacturing NI, etc.) have immediately rejected the new proposals.
The EU side is merely searching for a formulation of the rejection that is as polite and well explained as possible, to deflect the blame back to where it belongs.
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
Go on, share one of the jokes.
No. They need context and I need paying.
You get my thread headers for free.
I’ll give you a joke for free.
One in four frogs is a leap frog 😃
Badoom tish!
An Englishman, a Scotsman and an Irishman walk out a bar. The Englishman wanted to go so they all had to leave. 😃
If those are representative of your jokes, small bleeding wonder nobody pays you.
Peter Sissons was one of the presenters on the BBC's iconic 1992 election night coverage, regarded by many psephological anoraks as one of the best ever election shows. This is the for the first 5 minutes or so of that programme.
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
Go on, share one of the jokes.
No. They need context and I need paying.
You get my thread headers for free.
I’ll give you a joke for free.
One in four frogs is a leap frog 😃
Is that still the last post?
Where’s the tumbleweed emoji when needed
Too many people getting off on Johnson’s conference speech to keep things going, when they have exhausted themselves they will be back.
I’m glad you didn’t use the word spaffing.
Are we the First Nation in history tricked by a bus?
Any how, good news Bond films to last 30% longer after brexit. Bad news, it’s with scenes of his passport being more heavily scrutinised between exotic European locales.
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
Go on, share one of the jokes.
No. They need context and I need paying.
You get my thread headers for free.
I’ll give you a joke for free.
One in four frogs is a leap frog 😃
Is that still the last post?
Where’s the tumbleweed emoji when needed
Too many people getting off on Johnson’s conference speech to keep things going, when they have exhausted themselves they will be back.
I’m glad you didn’t use the word spaffing.
Are we the First Nation in history tricked by a bus?
Any how, good news Bond films to last 30% longer after brexit. Bad news, it’s with scenes of his passport being more heavily scrutinised between exotic European locales.
Well he did claim in an interview yesterdAy it had nothing to do with ejaculation, but then I don’t believe a word after all his name is alexander
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
Go on, share one of the jokes.
No. They need context and I need paying.
You get my thread headers for free.
I’ll give you a joke for free.
One in four frogs is a leap frog 😃
Badoom tish!
An Englishman, a Scotsman and an Irishman walk out a bar. The Englishman wanted to go so they all had to leave. 😃
If those are representative of your jokes, small bleeding wonder nobody pays you.
Like you Doctor, I was at the cricket. And I was wondering, why is the ball getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And then it hit me.
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
Go on, share one of the jokes.
No, don't, that's how music hall died. Once someone had seen an act on TV, nobody would pay to go and see it live.
Queens speech is a massive playground for the Con manifesto- no brainer to have one.
Tax cuts and NHS bungs - which Labour will vote down - the fools.
But the opposition could tag a "tax transparency" amendment on to the QS. Would Johnson throw the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man under the bus to get his way?
Ooh that would be delicious not that I have ever suggested this was a conspiracy theory
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
The EU has not rejected it out of hand while Baker has been supportive
Yes, the EU is not so stupid as to say no immediately. But they will require changes which Baker would not accept. Thus, Johnson will be able to blame the EU for No Deal, which is what this is all about, of course.
Lighten up for 24 hours. I think Baker’s been squared.
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
Go on, share one of the jokes.
No. They need context and I need paying.
You get my thread headers for free.
I’ll give you a joke for free.
One in four frogs is a leap frog 😃
Badoom tish!
An Englishman, a Scotsman and an Irishman walk out a bar. The Englishman wanted to go so they all had to leave. 😃
If those are representative of your jokes, small bleeding wonder nobody pays you.
Like you Doctor, I was at the cricket. And I was wondering, why is the ball getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And then it hit me.
Gordon Bennett. I am genuinely stumped as to how to respond.
Impressed with Boris's 'deal' proposals today. Takes the worst elements of May's deal and finds a realistic and sensible compromise way to deal with it. The EU should take this with both hands, and if it wasn't for the Benn Act and the Remainers behind it they probably would.
My concerns over the backstop were always that it was undemocratic. A 4-yearly renewable option for NI voters [or their representatives] to opt-in to SM rules fixes that neatly. Democracy is honoured, my concern is dealt with - unless there's some nasty that crops up I can happily back this deal.
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
Go on, share one of the jokes.
No. They need context and I need paying.
You get my thread headers for free.
I’ll give you a joke for free.
One in four frogs is a leap frog 😃
There are two fish in a tank
One turns to the other and says “so how do you drive this thing?”
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
Go on, share one of the jokes.
No. They need context and I need paying.
You get my thread headers for free.
I’ll give you a joke for free.
One in four frogs is a leap frog 😃
Badoom tish!
An Englishman, a Scotsman and an Irishman walk out a bar. The Englishman wanted to go so they all had to leave. 😃
Which suggests if the EU back it he might vote for it
Absolutely. But for the EU to back it there wil have to be changes that mean the ERG do not back it. We are playing the No Deal Blame Game game now.
Maybe. Maybe not. One thing is absolutely certain. It a deal is agreed and passed, which is possible, there will be a hell of a lot of bed wetting on PB from some posters. I can’t begin to imagine.
If we're going for hopelessly corny jokes and not my awesome puns:
A magician was working on a cruise ship.
Since the audience was different each week, the magician did the same tricks over and over again. There was only one problem: The captain's parrot saw the shows each week and began to understand how the Magician did every trick.
Once he understood, he started shouting in the middle of the show, "Look, it's not the same hat!" or, "Look, he's hiding the flowers under the table!" Or "Hey, why are all the cards the ace of spades?"
The magician was furious but couldn't do anything. It was, after all, the Captain's parrot.
Then one stormy night on the Pacific, the ship unfortunately sank.
The magician luckily found himself on a piece of wood floating in the middle of the sea, as fate would have it ... With the parrot.
They stared at each other with hatred, but did not utter a word.
This went on for a day... And then 2 days. And then 3 days. Finally on the 4th day, the parrot could not hold back any longer and said...
Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament as it would first need to be approved by the EU and if it is approved by the EU it will automatically be rejected by the ERG. We’re heading to No Deal.
The EU has not rejected it out of hand while Baker has been supportive
Yes, the EU is not so stupid as to say no immediately. But they will require changes which Baker would not accept. Thus, Johnson will be able to blame the EU for No Deal, which is what this is all about, of course.
Lighten up for 24 hours. I think Baker’s been squared.
Really sad to hear of the death of Jessye Norman. A superb singer. Her recording of Strauss’s 4 Last Songs is sublime. One of my 10 Desert Island discs.
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
Go on, share one of the jokes.
No. They need context and I need paying.
You get my thread headers for free.
I’ll give you a joke for free.
One in four frogs is a leap frog 😃
There are two fish in a tank
One turns to the other and says “so how do you drive this thing?”
Did you hear about the psephologist from Warsaw who moved to Haiti?
Comments
I think Nigel blew it with many Leavers when he started calling for Boris to resign over the proroguing fiasco.
Farage was very supportative of proroguing Parliament when it was first announced. Then when it went wrong in SC he starts calling for the PM to resign?
He looked very flaky and opportunist.
If we did need a Con/BXP coalition to get Brexit done I now wouldn't trust him not to cut and run and the first sign of enemy fire to be honest...
Because I think a lot of misunderstanding on here comes from us not have the same definitions of words.
If you add in Alliance comming off the fence and some Unionist voices starting to attack the DUP from the right on it Boris has certainly shaken things up. Too early to tell if he has solved anything.
Assuming that they don't, No Deal can only happen after the Conservatives win an outright victory in a General Election (unless the EU27 become so exhausted by this process that they refuse an extension and Parliament fails subsequently to revoke, but that seems highly unlikely at this stage.)
A Tory victory is not impossible, of course, but I don't see how they manage it with the SNP being as strong as they are, the Lib Dems having the wind back in their sails, and the virtual invulnerability of most of Labour's low turnout/high robot voter seats.
No Brexit looks more likely than No Deal at this stage.
However policy wise Warren would also be the most left liberal Democratic candidate since McGovern in 1972 and we all know how that ended for the Democrats, that year they rejected another centrist VP, Hubert Humphrey, who would have given Nixon a much tighter race
Anyway one talk down, one to go. They stayed awake, laughed at the jokes and asked questions at the end. So am assuming not a disaster.....
GE here we come.
Stormont has some unique minority protection features because of its troubled history
But I guess the logic of what you are saying is you’d can the Belfast Agreement?
HMG have moved from their proposal of:
"Let's substitute the impending hard NI/RoI border with two hard borders, demarking a no-mans land - exactly around that highly contested border region - which will be uncontrollable."
to their new proposal of:
"Let's replace the impending hard NI/RoI border with a hard NI/RoI customs border plus a hard NI/UK regulatory border, and to round out the picture, let's place an explosive devise underneath it all and hand the trigger for that to Arlene and the troglodytes."
It is no surprise that the entire NI business community (CBI NI, FSB NI, Manufacturing NI, etc.) have immediately rejected the new proposals.
The EU side is merely searching for a formulation of the rejection that is as polite and well explained as possible, to deflect the blame back to where it belongs.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1179476845907124224?s=20
If I'm right and the Remain politicians win out in the end, then I seriously doubt that they have any plan for how to deal with the resentment of all those Leave voters who will feel that they've been robbed, beyond simply ignoring them.
Effectively when you need opposition votes on a deal you’d be asking for them to vote yes to the Tory economic plans .
You get my thread headers for free.
No politician is trustworthy. All lie, cheat and deceive to achieve their goals. It’s what they do. You never know - Boris might actually be much more to their liking than the earnest, straight May. I’m sure meetings are more fun with him in attendance...(!)
Build houses
Invest in the NHS
Invest in education
Implement the immigration controls that have always been there
If you do that then the reasons for people voting leave go away
One in four frogs is a leap frog 😃
Where’s the tumbleweed emoji when needed
But here’s another
Have we tried unplugging 2016 waiting ten seconds and plugging it back in? 😃
Would Johnson throw the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man under the bus to get his way?
The Englishman wanted to go so they all had to leave. 😃
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDvMbr0BAKQ
Are we the First Nation in history tricked by a bus?
Any how, good news Bond films to last 30% longer after brexit.
Bad news, it’s with scenes of his passport being more heavily scrutinised between exotic European locales.
And then it hit me.
Ooh that would be delicious not that I have ever suggested this was a conspiracy theory
My concerns over the backstop were always that it was undemocratic. A 4-yearly renewable option for NI voters [or their representatives] to opt-in to SM rules fixes that neatly. Democracy is honoured, my concern is dealt with - unless there's some nasty that crops up I can happily back this deal.
One turns to the other and says “so how do you drive this thing?”
A magician was working on a cruise ship.
Since the audience was different each week, the magician did the same tricks over and over again. There was only one problem: The captain's parrot saw the shows each week and began to understand how the Magician did every trick.
Once he understood, he started shouting in the middle of the show, "Look, it's not the same hat!" or, "Look, he's hiding the flowers under the table!" Or "Hey, why are all the cards the ace of spades?"
The magician was furious but couldn't do anything. It was, after all, the Captain's parrot.
Then one stormy night on the Pacific, the ship unfortunately sank.
The magician luckily found himself on a piece of wood floating in the middle of the sea, as fate would have it ... With the parrot.
They stared at each other with hatred, but did not utter a word.
This went on for a day... And then 2 days. And then 3 days. Finally on the 4th day, the parrot could not hold back any longer and said...
"Okay, I give up. Where's the freaking ship??
Pro.
He became a Voodoo Pole!