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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tommyknockers. The death of the old Conservative party

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think most people care either way or if they do already hate Boris anyway and Boris still has not hung around with terrorists unlike Corbyn

    I wasn't talking about Corbyn..

    So, you don't think it matters that Boris Johnson's alleged mistress secured public cash when he was Mayor?
    It is a problem though, isn't it? Every time Johnson's lack of morality and alleged corruption is raised, somebody will just say 'whatabout Corbyn?' Jennie Formby alone is an extremely awkward one to explain away, but his persistent refusal to retire Abbott despite her decline in health also springs to mind.

    Which may explain why despite everything the Brexiteers, er, Conservatives are ten points clear in the polls. Even though they would be 50 points behind an opposition led by somebody who could pass for sane and pretend to be honest.
    Good point..we wouldn't have Brexit, or this threat of no deal without Corbyn..he has been a dream to the populists to run riot...

    That said, Johnson is a degenerate, morally repugnant, corrupted lowlife who should not be allowed anywhere near high office....
    I'm not sure I'd go as far as your first sentence - as for your second, he is himself an unabashed populist and has shown it again today.

    For your final sentence, first of all I think you are far too generous to Johnson, but again, your criticisms apply with equal force to Corbyn.
    There are many epithets fair to attach to Jezza, but not corruption, I think.
    Please explain to me then why Abbott and Formby hold the posts they do.

    If you say 'on merit,' you will have to excuse me while I die laughing.
  • The House of Lords is explictly set up not to have a democratic mandate and to be a revising and delaying chamber only. However it's chief convention in relation to democratic mandates is the Sailsbury one. Transfering that to the EU referendum result the Lords shouldn't block the official Leave campaign's *manifesto* pledges as that's what the convention applies to. Not the Government's general mandate.

    In that sense the Lords' constitutional mandate to the EU referendum is to the official Leave campaign's manifesto pledges. If that indeed is what is put before them.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    HYUFD said:




    I don't think most people care either way or if they do already hate Boris anyway and Boris still has not hung around with terrorists unlike Corbyn

    You may be right, that most people won't change their love Boris / hate Boris views based on this. However, if his actions turn out to be sanctionable and illegal, it would be a much less impressive (metaphorical) martyrdom than his intention of (metaphorically) dying in a ditch to save Brexit.
    More a question of living in a ditch?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Hi from our mooring here in sunny Boston. See things are ever more polarised and the SNP talk of putting Corbyn into office. Are they mad.

    A GE must be the next step in this crisis but a fudged TM deal remains my choice

    Does your ship have a no Brexit talk policy? I suppose you can always come on here when WiFi allows if you get withdrawal symptoms.

    Enjoy Boston. Nice city.

    https://twitter.com/ProfDaveAndress/status/1177993593383989250
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Chris said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leaver's big mistake* was not agreeing up front what Leave would look like.

    * It's proving to be a mistake now but in fairness if they had defined it up front they wouldn't have won the referendum.

    And the country would not be in this shambles with Brexit tearing it apart and reducing our credibility to zero.

    So it would have been a lot better for them to have been honest than win this Pyrrhic victory.
    The referendum gave leavers an unexpected and never-to-be-repeated opportunity to do what most of them have dedicated their career to doing, namely leave the EU. And had they put forward the kind of soft Brexit that was promised during the referendum - the Norway option for instance - the UK would now have left and be free to diverge further in a measured way over time if it wished. Had Johnson become PM in 2016 I think this would probably have happened. But the Tories elected May, a remainer, and in her desperation to prove herself a true convert she set out a much harder Brexit than most people expected. This encouraged the ERG to double down and demand even more, and so we have got to the current impasse. Which is quite likely to end in no Brexit at all IMO.
    The Norway option would not respect the votes of millions of Leave voters to reduce immigration and the Vote Leave campaign promise to replace free movement with a points system, once EU migration is brought down in a decade it may be an option but not now
    A no deal option would not respect the views of millions of remain, and leave, voters who were told we would get a good exit deal.
    Hyfud think it's quite OK that Boris funnels loads off public cash to his mistress so I wouldn't worry too much what his views are on anything else....
    Is it accurate to describe the woman as a mistress when the man is actually paying?
    The correct epithet would be a whoreder.
  • Leaver's big mistake* was not agreeing up front what Leave would look like.

    * It's proving to be a mistake now but in fairness if they had defined it up front they wouldn't have won the referendum.

    And the country would not be in this shambles with Brexit tearing it apart and reducing our credibility to zero.

    So it would have been a lot better for them to have been honest than win this Pyrrhic victory.
    The Cameron govt was incompetent to hold a referendum on something that parliament hadn't debated in detail. It should have drafted the exact leave terms before holding a vote.

    In other words, if we get another referendum, it may be the one we should have held in 2016. The 2016 one was worthless. It needs to be annulled and replaced by another one which can clarify peoples' views.

    The recent D Aaronovitch programme on R4 featured ~6 constituional experts who debated this for an hour. As David Allen Green says quite often, constitutional law should be dull and boring. If it ever becomes exciting, you've got a huge problem.
    I agree with all of that :+1:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Scott_P said:
    Shakes head in frustration and disbelief at where we are as a nation.
  • Leaver's big mistake* was not agreeing up front what Leave would look like.

    * It's proving to be a mistake now but in fairness if they had defined it up front they wouldn't have won the referendum.

    And the country would not be in this shambles with Brexit tearing it apart and reducing our credibility to zero.

    So it would have been a lot better for them to have been honest than win this Pyrrhic victory.
    The referendum gave leavers an unexpected and never-to-be-repeated opportunity to do what most of them have dedicated their career to doing, namely leave the EU. And had they put forward the kind of soft Brexit that was promised during the referendum - the Norway option for instance - the UK would now have left and be free to diverge further in a measured way over time if it wished. Had Johnson become PM in 2016 I think this would probably have happened. But the Tories elected May, a remainer, and in her desperation to prove herself a true convert she set out a much harder Brexit than most people expected. This encouraged the ERG to double down and demand even more, and so we have got to the current impasse. Which is quite likely to end in no Brexit at all IMO.
    You may also recall, a number of voters used the Referendum as a way to give Cameron an electoral kicking and then spent the immediate aftermath wanting to recast their vote for the proposition on the ballot rather than the protest vote they used it for.
  • I think the updated profile picture of alastair at the top of the thread is a bit unfair...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Scott_P said:
    A bounce for Corbyn, despite the lead.
  • Scott_P said:
    Does best justin impression...labour conference bounce....with that trend labour majority nailed on.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Anyway, to break away from the ill tempered and very sterile politics debate, here is some very encouraging news:

    Skin cancer: Half of people surviving advanced melanoma

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49853878

    This looks like a tremendous breakthrough if it's as reported.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think most people care either way or if they do already hate Boris anyway and Boris still has not hung around with terrorists unlike Corbyn

    I wasn't talking about Corbyn..

    So, you don't think it matters that Boris Johnson's alleged mistress secured public cash when he was Mayor?
    It is a problem though, isn't it? Every time Johnson's lack of morality and alleged corruption is raised, somebody will just say 'whatabout Corbyn?' Jennie Formby alone is an extremely awkward one to explain away, but his persistent refusal to retire Abbott despite her decline in health also springs to mind.

    Which may explain why despite everything the Brexiteers, er, Conservatives are ten points clear in the polls. Even though they would be 50 points behind an opposition led by somebody who could pass for sane and pretend to be honest.
    Good point..we wouldn't have Brexit, or this threat of no deal without Corbyn..he has been a dream to the populists to run riot...

    That said, Johnson is a degenerate, morally repugnant, corrupted lowlife who should not be allowed anywhere near high office....
    I'm not sure I'd go as far as your first sentence - as for your second, he is himself an unabashed populist and has shown it again today.

    For your final sentence, first of all I think you are far too generous to Johnson, but again, your criticisms apply with equal force to Corbyn.
    There are many epithets fair to attach to Jezza, but not corruption, I think.
    Please explain to me then why Abbott and Formby hold the posts they do.

    If you say 'on merit,' you will have to excuse me while I die laughing.
    Stupidity, poor judgement and misplaced loyalty probably, but I would not suggest corruption.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,387
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:
    Shakes head in frustration and disbelief at where we are as a nation.
    I know! How could Labour pick up three percentage points after last week's conference debacle?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:
    Shakes head in frustration and disbelief at where we are as a nation.
    I know! How could Labour pick up three percentage points after last week's conference debacle?
    There is no such thing as bad publicity!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think most people care either way or if they do already hate Boris anyway and Boris still has not hung around with terrorists unlike Corbyn

    I wasn't talking about Corbyn..

    So, you don't think it matters that Boris Johnson's alleged mistress secured public cash when he was Mayor?
    It is a problem though, isn't it? Every time Johnson's lack of morality and alleged corruption is raised, somebody will just say 'whatabout Corbyn?' Jennie Formby alone is an extremely awkward one to explain away, but his persistent refusal to retire Abbott despite her decline in health also springs to mind.

    Which may explain why despite everything the Brexiteers, er, Conservatives are ten points clear in the polls. Even though they would be 50 points behind an opposition led by somebody who could pass for sane and pretend to be honest.
    Good point..we wouldn't have Brexit, or this threat of no deal without Corbyn..he has been a dream to the populists to run riot...

    That said, Johnson is a degenerate, morally repugnant, corrupted lowlife who should not be allowed anywhere near high office....
    I'm not sure I'd go as far as your first sentence - as for your second, he is himself an unabashed populist and has shown it again today.

    For your final sentence, first of all I think you are far too generous to Johnson, but again, your criticisms apply with equal force to Corbyn.
    There are many epithets fair to attach to Jezza, but not corruption, I think.
    Please explain to me then why Abbott and Formby hold the posts they do.

    If you say 'on merit,' you will have to excuse me while I die laughing.
    Stupidity, poor judgement and misplaced loyalty probably, but I would not suggest corruption.
    Misplaced loyalty - that is, appointing friends rather than able candidates - is a form of corruption. It's also called patronage.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Flanner said:

    [A year-long GNU] sadly, it feels unlikely. There's the small matter of what policies other than extend and 2nd ref it could agree on.
    By the end of a year, if Remain or EEA/EFTA won the ref, the GNU would have morphed into LDs/Nats/Greens plus Real Conservatives and Real Social Democrats. Since the Parliament could last till 2022 and we'd be more or less Remaining till then, the parties could use the two years to realign themselves - and abstain from any other gratuitous legislation.
    Would the SNP be happy with no 2nd Sindy ref during this GNU?
    Without Brexit, especially No Deal Brexit Yes would have near zero chance of winning any indyref2 anyway as all the Scottish polls show
    Lets be honest, no deal Brexit guarantees Scottish Independence. I have no doubt about that.
    It makes it more likely, that does not mean it guarantees it though
    So you're quite happy for the Conserative and Unionist Party to pursue a Brexit outcome that makes the break up of the UK more likely?
    If the only thing keeping Scotland in the UK is membership of the EU there is little left of the Union anyway, I would prefer Brexit with a Deal (and I think Boris will still pass the WA and a NI only backstop if he wins a majority) but the Leave vote must be respected regardless even with No Deal and if that was the case Scots could then determine whether they prefer the UK or EU
    HYFUD..what do you think about Boris allegedly getting his blonde bit on the side a shed load public cash?
    I think this makes him unfit for any kind of public office.....I think it's despicable, morally repellant, and he should be banned from holding any type of public office.

    Even if her company deserved this money it is fucking horrible that he was sniffing around her when he was married...he just comes across as pretty disgusting. Character matters...and Boris, the Prime Minister, has very little of it...
    I don't think most people care either way or if they do already hate Boris anyway and Boris still has not hung around with terrorists unlike Corbyn
    So - antisemitism's OK, so long as it's dear old Boris. So is directing public money to your girlfriend.

    Maybe it would be easier if you explained what dear old Boris could do that wasn't unacceptable to you? Oh - sorry - unacceptable to fail to drive the country off a cliff on 31 October. Of course. The unforgivable sin.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think most people care either way or if they do already hate Boris anyway and Boris still has not hung around with terrorists unlike Corbyn

    I wasn't talking about Corbyn..

    So, you don't think it matters that Boris Johnson's alleged mistress secured public cash when he was Mayor?
    It is a problem though, isn't it? Every time Johnson's lack of morality and alleged corruption is raised, somebody will just say 'whatabout Corbyn?' Jennie Formby alone is an extremely awkward one to explain away, but his persistent refusal to retire Abbott despite her decline in health also springs to mind.

    Which may explain why despite everything the Brexiteers, er, Conservatives are ten points clear in the polls. Even though they would be 50 points behind an opposition led by somebody who could pass for sane and pretend to be honest.
    Good point..we wouldn't have Brexit, or this threat of no deal without Corbyn..he has been a dream to the populists to run riot...

    That said, Johnson is a degenerate, morally repugnant, corrupted lowlife who should not be allowed anywhere near high office....
    I'm not sure I'd go as far as your first sentence - as for your second, he is himself an unabashed populist and has shown it again today.

    For your final sentence, first of all I think you are far too generous to Johnson, but again, your criticisms apply with equal force to Corbyn.
    There are many epithets fair to attach to Jezza, but not corruption, I think.
    Please explain to me then why Abbott and Formby hold the posts they do.

    If you say 'on merit,' you will have to excuse me while I die laughing.
    Stupidity, poor judgement and misplaced loyalty probably, but I would not suggest corruption.
    Misplaced loyalty - that is, appointing friends rather than able candidates - is a form of corruption. It's also called patronage.
    Corruption suggests to me financial advantage, or misuse of public funds for personal ends. Patronage is a different fault IMO.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Good to hear from you @Big_G_NorthWales hope you’re enjoying yourself.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think most people care either way or if they do already hate Boris anyway and Boris still has not hung around with terrorists unlike Corbyn

    I wasn't talking about Corbyn..

    So, you don't think it matters that Boris Johnson's alleged mistress secured public cash when he was Mayor?
    It is a problem though, isn't it? Every time Johnson's lack of morality and alleged corruption is raised, somebody will just say 'whatabout Corbyn?' Jennie Formby alone is an extremely awkward one to explain away, but his persistent refusal to retire Abbott despite her decline in health also springs to mind.

    Which may explain why despite everything the Brexiteers, er, Conservatives are ten points clear in the polls. Even though they would be 50 points behind an opposition led by somebody who could pass for sane and pretend to be honest.
    Good point..we wouldn't have Brexit, or this threat of no deal without Corbyn..he has been a dream to the populists to run riot...

    That said, Johnson is a degenerate, morally repugnant, corrupted lowlife who should not be allowed anywhere near high office....
    I'm not sure I'd go as far as your first sentence - as for your second, he is himself an unabashed populist and has shown it again today.

    For your final sentence, first of all I think you are far too generous to Johnson, but again, your criticisms apply with equal force to Corbyn.
    There are many epithets fair to attach to Jezza, but not corruption, I think.
    Please explain to me then why Abbott and Formby hold the posts they do.

    If you say 'on merit,' you will have to excuse me while I die laughing.
    Stupidity, poor judgement and misplaced loyalty probably, but I would not suggest corruption.
    Misplaced loyalty - that is, appointing friends rather than able candidates - is a form of corruption. It's also called patronage.
    Corruption suggests to me financial advantage, or misuse of public funds for personal ends. Patronage is a different fault IMO.
    Then your definition is too narrow.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    ydoethur said:

    Anyway, to break away from the ill tempered and very sterile politics debate, here is some very encouraging news:

    Skin cancer: Half of people surviving advanced melanoma

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49853878

    This looks like a tremendous breakthrough if it's as reported.

    Well I tried YTFC ball boys being sent off but it didn’t work although it was true.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    GIN1138 said:

    After working for a couple of days Vanilla embed is no longer displaying on Google Chrome again.

    Back to Firefox. :D

    I had lots of problems which I reported to this forum and even to Vanilla. But it seems to have been due to dodgy rural broadband, i.e. blame BT's cables and exchanges.
    Not sure about that in this case because in F12/ Dev Tool Google Chrome gives the problem:

    Refused to display 'https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/embed/?c=1569696190920&vanilla_identifier=114965&vanilla_url=http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/09/28/tommyknockers-the-death-of-the-old-conservative-party/' in a frame because an ancestor violates the following Content Security Policy directive: "frame-ancestors 'self' www2.politicalbetting.com *politicalbetting.com".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:
    Shakes head in frustration and disbelief at where we are as a nation.
    I know! How could Labour pick up three percentage points after last week's conference debacle?
    There is no such thing as bad publicity!
    There are no disasters, only opportunities. And indeed, opportunities for fresh disasters.
  • HYUFD said:




    I don't think most people care either way or if they do already hate Boris anyway and Boris still has not hung around with terrorists unlike Corbyn

    You may be right, that most people won't change their love Boris / hate Boris views based on this. However, if his actions turn out to be sanctionable and illegal, it would be a much less impressive (metaphorical) martyrdom than his intention of (metaphorically) dying in a ditch to save Brexit.

    However, a chunk of pro-Brexit thinking is (not entirely unreasonably) based on the EU's lack of frugality, transparency and accountability. Shouldn't it bother those who support the Prime Minister if he has been accused of things that they would be appalled about were a Eurocrat to have done them?
    This will undoubtedly damage Johnson amongst women and younger voters especially. Anecdotally my wife, who thought May was doing her best in difficult circumstances, thinks Johnson is completely unsuitable to be PM because of his attitude to women. And my children - in their 20s - are more censorious about sexual cheating and deception than would have been the case when I was their age.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Flanner said:

    [A year-long GNU] sadly, it feels unlikely. There's the small matter of what policies other than extend and 2nd ref it could agree on.
    Would the SNP be happy with no 2nd Sindy ref during this GNU?
    Without Brexit, especially No Deal Brexit Yes would have near zero chance of winning any indyref2 anyway as all the Scottish polls show
    Lets be honest, no deal Brexit guarantees Scottish Independence. I have no doubt about that.
    It makes it more likely, that does not mean it guarantees it though
    So you're quite happy for the Conserative and Unionist Party to pursue a Brexit outcome that makes the break up of the UK more likely?
    If the only thing keeping Scotland in the UK is membership of the EU there is little left of the Union anyway, I would prefer Brexit with a Deal (and I think Boris will still pass the WA and a NI only backstop if he wins a majority) but the Leave vote must be respected regardless even with No Deal and if that was the case Scots could then determine whether they prefer the UK or EU
    HYFUD..what do you think about Boris allegedly getting his blonde bit on the side a shed load public cash?
    I think this makes him unfit for any kind of public office.....I think it's despicable, morally repellant, and he should be banned from holding any type of public office.

    Even if her company deserved this money it is fucking horrible that he was sniffing around her when he was married...he just comes across as pretty disgusting. Character matters...and Boris, the Prime Minister, has very little of it...
    I don't think most people care either way or if they do already hate Boris anyway and Boris still has not hung around with terrorists unlike Corbyn
    So - antisemitism's OK, so long as it's dear old Boris. So is directing public money to your girlfriend.

    Maybe it would be easier if you explained what dear old Boris could do that wasn't unacceptable to you? Oh - sorry - unacceptable to fail to drive the country off a cliff on 31 October. Of course. The unforgivable sin.
    The fact that some support Corbyn to be PM despite his colourful (!) history and previous associations make this statement rather moot.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    Scott_P said:
    I must have missed where her tech expertise features in her CV. Did she spend the days coding when between waitressing shifts?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    “Bollocks to Brussels”?

    :D
  • FF43 said:

    Hi from our mooring here in sunny Boston. See things are ever more polarised and the SNP talk of putting Corbyn into office. Are they mad.

    A GE must be the next step in this crisis but a fudged TM deal remains my choice

    Does your ship have a no Brexit talk policy? I suppose you can always come on here when WiFi allows if you get withdrawal symptoms.

    Enjoy Boston. Nice city.

    https://twitter.com/ProfDaveAndress/status/1177993593383989250
    5,000 on this ship including crew and not one conversation on brexit despite it being nearly 100% UK passengers
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    Will the DExEU Secretary's surrender letter feature?

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1177939652038320128?s=19
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    RobD said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    “Bollocks to Brussels”?

    :D
    Shove the surrender bill ...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    Con into landslide terriroy again! :D
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    edited September 2019


    W
    ydoethur said:

    Hi from our mooring here in sunny Boston. See things are ever more polarised and the SNP talk of putting Corbyn into office. Are they mad.

    A GE must be the next step in this crisis but a fudged TM deal remains my choice

    Hope you've had a good cruise.

    'Sunny Boston,' huh. Alright for some. Weather here sucks more than an intern Bill Clinton is paying by the orgasm.
    It has been a brilliant cruise with fantastic weather. Another 10 days to go

    Will Boris survive till then
  • Scott_P Posts: 50,358
    7:42PM

    Guardian politics

    @GdnPolitics
    Jennifer Arcuri’s mystery £700,000 loan adds to pressure on Johnson https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/28/boris-johnson-jennifer-arcuri-loan-hacker-house-grant?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


    Jennifer Arcuri’s mystery £700,000 loan adds to pressure on Johnson
    New revelation about Hacker House entrepreneur as prime minister heads to Tory conference

    Can more worldy wise PBers explain what the Level 39 is that Jen brought Bogsy to?
  • FF43 said:

    Hi from our mooring here in sunny Boston. See things are ever more polarised and the SNP talk of putting Corbyn into office. Are they mad.

    A GE must be the next step in this crisis but a fudged TM deal remains my choice

    Does your ship have a no Brexit talk policy? I suppose you can always come on here when WiFi allows if you get withdrawal symptoms.

    Enjoy Boston. Nice city.

    https://twitter.com/ProfDaveAndress/status/1177993593383989250
    5,000 on this ship including crew and not one conversation on brexit despite it being nearly 100% UK passengers
    Excellent! Enjoy your cruise among the grown ups!
  • We've also had three negative democratic ' mandates ' sinces the EU referendum. In an early election specially called for the purpose voters ( a ) declined to give Theresa May a majority for her Brexit policy ( b ) took away the majority she already had. It's impossible to say exactly what negative mandates mean - if anything. But in the full knowledge of the EU referendum result voters elected a hung parliament.

    Then there is ( c ) that a majority of MPs elected and a votes cast in that election were for ruling out specific sorts of Brexit. Thus qualifying there generic support for Brexit in general.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    edited September 2019
    tyson said:

    Hi from our mooring here in sunny Boston. See things are ever more polarised and the SNP talk of putting Corbyn into office. Are they mad.

    A GE must be the next step in this crisis but a fudged TM deal remains my choice


    Big G..I'll break free from the polarisation for a bit..you were right about Theresa May. Bring her back.,.she was a leader fore our times....
    Thanks Tyson and yes she had a great deal in the circumstances
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    I see they're planning to bring Spitting Image back (for the benefit of the children - it was a satirical puppet show).

    I think it will fail, because so much of today's politics is beyond satire.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Foxy said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    Will the DExEU Secretary's surrender letter feature?

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1177939652038320128?s=19
    I call it the begging letter . How unedifying . Good on Barnier for telling the clueless Barclay to go fuck himself in less colourful language !
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    Foxy said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    Will the DExEU Secretary's surrender letter feature?

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1177939652038320128?s=19
    Chancing your arm isn’t surrendering .

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited September 2019
    Now hold on. Calling Margaret Hodge, formerly of Islington Council, 'well-respected' is taking it a bit too far. She was a capable chair of the PAC and her bitch slapping of Corbyn's racism even meritorious, but her record as council leader in a huge raft of fields in the 1980s was absolutely vile - worse by far than Corbyn's.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,387
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:
    Shakes head in frustration and disbelief at where we are as a nation.
    I know! How could Labour pick up three percentage points after last week's conference debacle?
    There is no such thing as bad publicity!
    Sorry, that was an attempt at irony after Boris' interesting week.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    FF43 said:

    Hi from our mooring here in sunny Boston. See things are ever more polarised and the SNP talk of putting Corbyn into office. Are they mad.

    A GE must be the next step in this crisis but a fudged TM deal remains my choice

    Does your ship have a no Brexit talk policy? I suppose you can always come on here when WiFi allows if you get withdrawal symptoms.

    Enjoy Boston. Nice city.

    https://twitter.com/ProfDaveAndress/status/1177993593383989250
    5,000 on this ship including crew and not one conversation on brexit despite it being nearly 100% UK passengers
    I went to Gibraltar for several days last week and several people i overheard talking about Brexit! I also talked with some US citizens about Trump, who they loath and want to oust!

    Have a good holiday! Although I suspect the next few weeks are going to be even more explosive than the recent past....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    In answer to Charles' question, the Democrats are either even more stupid than previously suspected or they've chosen to throw Biden under the bus

    A cynic might suggest that this story - especially the timing - is as likely to be an attempt to get Biden, as an attempt to get Trump.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Without Brexit, especially No Deal Brexit Yes would have near zero chance of winning any indyref2 anyway as all the Scottish polls show

    Lets be honest, no deal Brexit guarantees Scottish Independence. I have no doubt about that.
    It makes it more likely, that does not mean it guarantees it though
    So you're quite happy for the Conserative and Unionist Party to pursue a Brexit outcome that makes the break up of the UK more likely?
    If the only thing keeping Scotland in the UK is membership of the EU there is little left of the Union anyway, I would prefer Brexit with a Deal (and I think Boris will still pass the WA and a NI only backstop if he wins a majority) but the Leave vote must be respected regardless even with No Deal and if that was the case Scots could then determine whether they prefer the UK or EU
    HYFUD..what do you think about Boris allegedly getting his blonde bit on the side a shed load public cash?
    I think this makes him unfit for any kind of public office.....I think it's despicable, morally repellant, and he should be banned from holding any type of public office.

    Even if her company deserved this money it is fucking horrible that he was sniffing around her when he was married...he just comes across as pretty disgusting. Character matters...and Boris, the Prime Minister, has very little of it...
    I don't think most people care either way or if they do already hate Boris anyway and Boris still has not hung around with terrorists unlike Corbyn
    So - antisemitism's OK, so long as it's dear old Boris. So is directing public money to your girlfriend.

    Maybe it would be easier if you explained what dear old Boris could do that wasn't unacceptable to you? Oh - sorry - unacceptable to fail to drive the country off a cliff on 31 October. Of course. The unforgivable sin.
    The fact that some support Corbyn to be PM despite his colourful (!) history and previous associations make this statement rather moot.
    I don't think you really mean "moot," but I accept that the correct use of that word is probably a lost cause.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    TGOHF2 said:

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    Will the DExEU Secretary's surrender letter feature?

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1177939652038320128?s=19
    Chancing your arm isn’t surrendering .

    Is it taking back control?
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584

    TGOHF2 said:

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    Will the DExEU Secretary's surrender letter feature?

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1177939652038320128?s=19
    Chancing your arm isn’t surrendering .

    Is it taking back control?
    That phrase doesn’t cut through in focus groups so well - it’s has no relevance.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,387
    GIN1138 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    Con into landslide terriroy again! :D
    Not impossible I grant you, but I would be extremely surprised if Con/Brexit total was that close to 50%
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited September 2019
    Foxy said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    Will the DExEU Secretary's surrender letter feature?

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1177939652038320128?s=19
    It’s part of the “blame shifting” strategy - when there are queues at Dover Baker will wave this letter around “See! The EU banned sensible Preparation”
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    Will the DExEU Secretary's surrender letter feature?

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1177939652038320128?s=19
    It’s part of the “blame shifting” strategy - when there are queues at Dover Baker will wave this letter around “See! The EU banned sensible Preparation”
    Failing and blaming is a good strategy for populism, just not a very good way to run a country.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    Will the DExEU Secretary's surrender letter feature?

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1177939652038320128?s=19
    It’s part of the “blame shifting” strategy - when there are queues at Dover Baker will wave this letter around “See! The EU banned sensible Preparation”
    Surely that's correct.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2019
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:
    Shakes head in frustration and disbelief at where we are as a nation.
    I'm shaking my head in disbelief that as many as 24% of the public are still supporting Corbyn. The LDs would be a better opposition to the Tories IMO.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Scarpia said:

    Scott_P Posts: 50,358
    7:42PM

    Guardian politics

    @GdnPolitics
    Jennifer Arcuri’s mystery £700,000 loan adds to pressure on Johnson https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/28/boris-johnson-jennifer-arcuri-loan-hacker-house-grant?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


    Jennifer Arcuri’s mystery £700,000 loan adds to pressure on Johnson
    New revelation about Hacker House entrepreneur as prime minister heads to Tory conference

    Can more worldy wise PBers explain what the Level 39 is that Jen brought Bogsy to?

    This relates to the grant from DCMS which had nothing to do with Johnson and was when he was FS
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    edited September 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    Con into landslide terriroy again! :D
    Reminds me of May’s leads in April 2017.

    And, Mr G, hope you and Mrs G continue to enjoy your cruise.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited September 2019
    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    Will the DExEU Secretary's surrender letter feature?

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1177939652038320128?s=19
    Chancing your arm isn’t surrendering .

    Is it taking back control?
    That phrase doesn’t cut through in focus groups so well - it’s has no relevance.
    Please enlighten me, why do you passionately support Brexit? I am against Brexit as it screws the economy, will do nothing about immigration as people will come from elsewhere where the standard of living is much lower and finally i oppose Brexit because the economic and political gravity of Europe will warp UK interests with no say. So why do you think Brexit is such a good idea when it is a worse deal or scenario in every form of Brexit?
  • Chris said:

    I see they're planning to bring Spitting Image back (for the benefit of the children - it was a satirical puppet show).

    I think it will fail, because so much of today's politics is beyond satire.

    Wasnt newszoid supposed to be spitting image rebooted.....it was rubbish.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    Will the DExEU Secretary's surrender letter feature?

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1177939652038320128?s=19
    It’s part of the “blame shifting” strategy - when there are queues at Dover Baker will wave this letter around “See! The EU banned sensible Preparation”
    Failing and blaming is a good strategy for populism, just not a very good way to run a country.
    But win an election?
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    edited September 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    Con into landslide terriroy again! :D
    Just as they were in 2017!
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    GIN1138 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    Con into landslide terriroy again! :D
    Not quite. On UNS basis there would be 46 gains from Lab offset by 13 losses to LDs and circa 10 to SNP to give the Tories 340 seats - a majority of circa 30.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    Will the DExEU Secretary's surrender letter feature?

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1177939652038320128?s=19
    Chancing your arm isn’t surrendering .

    Is it taking back control?
    That phrase doesn’t cut through in focus groups so well - it’s has no relevance.
    Please enlighten me, why do you passionately support Brexit? I am against Brexit as it screws the economy, will do nothing about immigration as people will come from elsewhere where the standard of living is much lower and finally i oppose Brexit because the economic and political gravity of Europe will warp UK interests with no say. So why do you think Brexit is such a good idea when it is a worse deal or scenario in every form of Brexit?
    Why limit our ambitions to a fraction of the globe ? Nothing wrong being in a protectionist cartel I guess - but the EU is a socialist dead end.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    Con into landslide terriroy again! :D
    1% down on last week and Labour 2% up, though. Opinium is just very good for the Tories at the moment. Who knows who is right...
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Chris said:

    I see they're planning to bring Spitting Image back (for the benefit of the children - it was a satirical puppet show).

    I think it will fail, because so much of today's politics is beyond satire.

    Wasnt newszoid supposed to be spitting image rebooted.....it was rubbish.
    I just hope they're in time to produce an updated version of the 1987 "Tomorrow Belongs to Me" for the eve of the next general election.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
  • While I think there are signifigant problem's with the Lib Dems ' Rovoke ' policy *this* is its strength. That it tells the Emperor he isn't wearing any clothes. If the claim that the referendum ' decision ' has to be implimented 3 years 3 months later simply because it was taken is too ludicrous to rebut and without the sacralising of the vote wouldn't need it. People can and do change their minds about things in the light of new information. In anyother realm the idea of going through with a 3 years old decision you now regret simply for consistancies sake would be laughed at.

    The ' revoke ' stance for all its problems does attempt to put a brick through the Overton Window. It desacralises the referendum result.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    Will the DExEU Secretary's surrender letter feature?

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1177939652038320128?s=19
    It’s part of the “blame shifting” strategy - when there are queues at Dover Baker will wave this letter around “See! The EU banned sensible Preparation”
    Failing and blaming is a good strategy for populism, just not a very good way to run a country.
    But win an election?
    Possibly so, but it very much depends on what happens in October before any election. Any caretaker government would most likely function until spring, and a week is a very long time in politics, particularly at the moment.
  • To the extent that the MoE changes in Opinium mean anything, which they may not, its that the two parties who have had their conference coverage boost are up and the one yet to have it is down. In other words it's noise not a signal.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    I see they're planning to bring Spitting Image back (for the benefit of the children - it was a satirical puppet show).

    I think it will fail, because so much of today's politics is beyond satire.

    Wasnt newszoid supposed to be spitting image rebooted.....it was rubbish.
    I just hope they're in time to produce an updated version of the 1987 "Tomorrow Belongs to Me" for the eve of the next general election.
    One of the most chilling things I have watched it has stuck with me for the r st of my life broadcast just before the exit polls on polling day.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Latest average of polls from the last week:

    Con 31.7%
    Lab 23.7%
    LD 20.5%
    BRX 14.0%
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    AndyJS said:

    Latest average of polls from the last week:

    Con 31.7%
    Lab 23.7%
    LD 20.5%
    BRX 14.0%

    What's the average for Greens @AndyJS ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    I see they're planning to bring Spitting Image back (for the benefit of the children - it was a satirical puppet show).

    I think it will fail, because so much of today's politics is beyond satire.

    Wasnt newszoid supposed to be spitting image rebooted.....it was rubbish.
    I just hope they're in time to produce an updated version of the 1987 "Tomorrow Belongs to Me" for the eve of the next general election.
    It was that third term that did for Maggie. Her hubris was phenomenol, and nemesis was quick to punish it.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Chris said:

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    Will the DExEU Secretary's surrender letter feature?

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1177939652038320128?s=19
    It’s part of the “blame shifting” strategy - when there are queues at Dover Baker will wave this letter around “See! The EU banned sensible Preparation”
    Surely that's correct.
    The Govenment is not paid to lose and whine about it. It's paid to win.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Latest average of polls from the last week:

    Con 31.7%
    Lab 23.7%
    LD 20.5%
    BRX 14.0%

    What's the average for Greens @AndyJS ?
    Not sure because I don't have the Green share from the latest poll tonight. But before it was 4.5%.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Opinium says Labour have lost a bit more support from Remainers but picked up 5 points from Leave voters .

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    You don’t say! 🤣
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Latest average of polls from the last week:

    Con 31.7%
    Lab 23.7%
    LD 20.5%
    BRX 14.0%

    What's the average for Greens @AndyJS ?
    Not sure because I don't have the Green share from the latest poll tonight. But before it was 4.5%.
    Thanks
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited September 2019
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:
    Shakes head in frustration and disbelief at where we are as a nation.
    Same with Trump, the more he lies and cheats and whips up hatred the more his supporters love him.

    They do say we get the governments we deserve so, as you say, it tells us a lot about where the UK and USA are right now. What I find hilarious is Johnson having the brass neck to talk about uniting the country
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Politicians discover anonymous keyboard warriors are brave and type with bravery, uninhibited emotion and enhanced levels of vitriol.

    Welcome to the Internet.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151

    GIN1138 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    Con into landslide terriroy again! :D
    Reminds me of May’s leads in April 2017.

    And, Mr G, hope you and Mrs G continue to enjoy your cruise.
    Except in April 2017 the LDs were not just 4% behind Labour
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151
    edited September 2019
    Foxy said:
    And from Labour to the LDs and still a 12% Tory lead as they begin their conference
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited September 2019
    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    Will the DExEU Secretary's surrender letter feature?

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1177939652038320128?s=19
    Chancing your arm isn’t surrendering .

    Is it taking back control?
    That phrase doesn’t cut through in focus groups so well - it’s has no relevance.
    Please enlighten me, why do you passionately support Brexit? I am against Brexit as it screws the economy, will do nothing about immigration as people will come from elsewhere where the standard of living is much lower and finally i oppose Brexit because the economic and political gravity of Europe will warp UK interests with no say. So why do you think Brexit is such a good idea when it is a worse deal or scenario in every form of Brexit?
    Why limit our ambitions to a fraction of the globe ? Nothing wrong being in a protectionist cartel I guess - but the EU is a socialist dead end.
    The EU has done better trade deals with Japan and South Korea that the UK will benefit from if we Remain, compared to the terms we will get on our own simply due to comparative economic weights. This talk about ditching the EU trade deal we have for much smaller biliterial trade deals where the other state know we are on our uppers is rediculous. Even Canada wont play ball, which given their political and economic links shows very little prospect for trade deals. You are aware trade deals take years to agree?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:
    And from Labour to the LDs
    Even Opinium have 53% for pro-Remain/Ref2 parties :smile:
  • philiph said:

    Politicians discover anonymous keyboard warriors are brave and type with bravery, uninhibited emotion and enhanced levels of vitriol.

    Welcome to the Internet.
    He’s clearly nowhere near ready to make nice with the current regime.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    Con into landslide terriroy again! :D
    Reminds me of May’s leads in April 2017.

    And, Mr G, hope you and Mrs G continue to enjoy your cruise.
    Except in April 2017 the LDs were not just 4% behind Labour
    Nor just 11% behind the Tories.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:
    And from Labour to the LDs
    Even Opinium have 53% for pro-Remain/Ref2 parties :smile:
    So what this is FPTP not PR (and last week Labour affirmed it is not a pro Remain party anyway but Brexit neutral)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:
    And from Labour to the LDs
    Even Opinium have 53% for pro-Remain/Ref2 parties :smile:
    So what this is FPTP not PR (and last week Labour affirmed it is not a pro Remain party anyway but Brexit neutral)
    I can see why you daren't risk a 2nd referendum!
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    philiph said:

    Politicians discover anonymous keyboard warriors are brave and type with bravery, uninhibited emotion and enhanced levels of vitriol.

    Welcome to the Internet.
    He’s clearly nowhere near ready to make nice with the current regime.
    I wonder where he is heading he is certainly building up a head of steam.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    philiph said:

    Politicians discover anonymous keyboard warriors are brave and type with bravery, uninhibited emotion and enhanced levels of vitriol.

    Welcome to the Internet.
    He’s clearly nowhere near ready to make nice with the current regime.
    I'm sure he will enjoy the freedom to be his own man and state views he believes in having had his release from collective responsibility.

    It is a shame the party system and whipping prevent discussion, debate and independent thought.

    The parties are too powerful.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    philiph said:

    Politicians discover anonymous keyboard warriors are brave and type with bravery, uninhibited emotion and enhanced levels of vitriol.

    Welcome to the Internet.
    He’s clearly nowhere near ready to make nice with the current regime.
    Thank you for the interesting article.

    The biggest myth around is that Brexit will be done in any sense the moment we leave.

    It speaks well of Hammond that he is prepared to speak up for his former employee.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    TGOHF2 said:

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Opinion is 36 24 20 11 con lab LD bxp

    With the Con conference bounce yet to come.

    Some well tested in focus groups policies coming this week.
    Will the DExEU Secretary's surrender letter feature?

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1177939652038320128?s=19
    Chancing your arm isn’t surrendering .

    denial,
    anger,
    bargaining, <---- Barclay.
    depression,
    acceptance
  • HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:
    And from Labour to the LDs
    Even Opinium have 53% for pro-Remain/Ref2 parties :smile:
    This is another problem for the ' Will of the People ' crowd. A second early general creates a second chronologically superior democratic mandste to the EU referendum. Every opposition party with Commons seats sans the DUP has signifigantly hardened their Brexit scepticism. If there is a clear Tory majority that's fine. If there is another stalemate it will be even harder to break because opposition parties will no longer be bound by the 2016 result.

    Hidden in plain sight is Boris favours a ' People's Vote ' by asking for another General Election before Brexit is delivered.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724

    philiph said:

    Politicians discover anonymous keyboard warriors are brave and type with bravery, uninhibited emotion and enhanced levels of vitriol.

    Welcome to the Internet.
    He’s clearly nowhere near ready to make nice with the current regime.
    T'would be amusing to have him back as CoE in a Rebel Alliance government.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    I see they're planning to bring Spitting Image back (for the benefit of the children - it was a satirical puppet show).

    I think it will fail, because so much of today's politics is beyond satire.

    Wasnt newszoid supposed to be spitting image rebooted.....it was rubbish.
    I just hope they're in time to produce an updated version of the 1987 "Tomorrow Belongs to Me" for the eve of the next general election.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    nico67 said:

    Opinium says Labour have lost a bit more support from Remainers but picked up 5 points from Leave voters .

    Interesting. It gives a pretty good indication of whether LD or Lab are best placed for a tactical anti-Tory vote in England.
This discussion has been closed.