Because, yes, it is obligtory for them to be driving in their cars when not out protesting about climate change.
Idiot.
Obligatory? No.
Likely? Yes.
Idiot^2.
Edit. Not to count the reduction in traffic caused by other people not driving because roads were closed for the protest.
Because closed roads never impact on drivers, causing them to greatly increase their carbon emissions as they grind along at two miles an hour on the clogged alternative routes.
Do you even drive? Does DVLC keep the terminally stupid off the roads?
He is not obviously wrong. I've never immunity from sarcasm.
You may need to contact the Greta helpline, though It seems very busy.
This is how people in my football team are seeing it
What is it about Greta that upsets the middle aged white snowflakes?
We all have it to varying degrees.
That's not quite true.
The young have an abundance of vision without the experience to know what is possible.
The older have the experience of what is possible but have mostly lost the vision to make effective change.
and we hate being lectured to by people who don't see any of the nuance.
emergency. So what is the solution?
Fewer long haul flights?
Without doubt. I’ve certainly cut back on mine. But aeroplanes are a relatively small part of the equation. It’s cars and factory emissions that cause the biggest problems, along with environmental degradation. Our best hope from here is technology.
You only have to take up cycling for a week or two to realise how unnecessary a lot of car journeys are.
Travelling across the globe for work meetings in the age of video calls is crazy too, if we really believe air travel to be so bad for the environment.
People are fat, lazy, inconsiderate and unhealthy, so it’s no surprise how they treat the planet
I disagree on video conferencing for a number of reasons, but take your point generally!
Mr. Anabobazina, that does raise another legitimate criticism, not of Thunberg but some of her supporters.
She's simultaneously a wise grown up to whom we ought listen, and a vulnerable child who cannot possibly be criticised.
This depends whether the criticism is a valid rebuttal of the political statements she is making, or if the criticism is that she is a "vulnerable child".
Nationalist Populists object for many reasons, but the psychological threat is of a popular worldwide movement that transcends the barriers that National Populists want to put between people.
International action requires international institutions, and they feel threatened by these.
She's a pin-up for people who have privileged lives and don't want to give up those privileges but feel guilty about it.
These who dont want to give up their privileges don't seem to have posters of her!
I'm right though.
As an example here's the Guardian promoting art exhibitions in Europe:
Isn't all of that reprehensible if climate change is such a big issue ?
But there must be a demand for it from Guardian readers.
None of those art trips require flying, indeed several are in Britain. The top Guardian travel items are places in Britain.
I understand it is also possible to travel through Europe by train.
Indeed, and the Guardian recently did a travel special on holidaying in Europe by train. It was quite an eye-opener how much of Europe can be reached inside a day from London.
(Of course sadly for many of us there's another day to get to London )
Nationalist Populists object for many reasons, but the psychological threat is of a popular worldwide movement that transcends the barriers that National Populists want to put between people.
International action requires international institutions, and they feel threatened by these.
She's a pin-up for people who have privileged lives and don't want to give up those privileges but feel guilty about it.
These who dont want to give up their privileges don't seem to have posters of her!
I'm right though.
As an example here's the Guardian promoting art exhibitions in Europe:
Thanks. I'm with my dad who thinks he'll stand down if we don't leave by end of October or gets VONCed. I think he's wrong so might see if he wants to have the same bet at evens!
Just arrived with him at Spurs' new ground where he has season tickets and a bit of corporate hospitality, my first time here.. Come on you Saints!!
Whoa steady on!
Resign as PM, yes, that's got to be very possible, but NOT as Tory leader.
Oh I agree, but my dad seems sure that he'll quit as tory leader. I think he'd have to be forced out, but cant see that happenings pre-election
Mr Dancer. It is certainly true that science requires dissent to test ideas. However, I would make two points.
1. In order to progress to another stage of scientific enquiry it is often necessary to assume that previous stages are true. Otherwise one would forever spend one's career testing the validity of Newton's Laws of Motion, rather than using those Laws of Motion to make further discoveries.
2. At this point of time, and indeed for the last several decades, the best guess on global warming has been that it is happening, human activity is responsible, and it would be to our benefit to do something to avoid too much of it happening in the future. We have to make political and economic judgements on the basis of the best available evidence. There is no perfect, complete state of knowledge that we can ever attain.
So perhaps we ought to take it seriously and do more, more quickly, about it?
Ireland need a converted try to tie. 7 minutes to do it.....
I can see a scenario in this group where scotland, if they lose to Japan and Samoa, fail to qualify automatically for the next world cup.
Theoretically this is a good result for Scotland as it opens up the possibility of avoiding NZ in the next round. But more likely it consigns them to 3rd or 4th.
The problem with Scotland finishing 4th is fying)
That's easy - you just replace Scotland with Georgia in the Six Nations, if they finish above 4th; otherwise, just revert to a 5 Nations.
I did wonder if there should be a promotion/relegation playoff for the final spot of the 6-nations
Of course there should be. The closed shop system is a sporting disgrace and an affront to competition. It only persists because the blazers prefer a trip to Rome every spring rather than roughing in in Tbilisi.
regardless of whether they change entry to the 6 nations, they should definately play some (more) matches against the next tier nations
.
Should have been done long time ago
That was a wonderful game of rugby. Japan play the sport beautifully, which itself is more than enough reason to give them a slot in a Tier 1 competition.
Right now Japan are at 9 in the rankings, ahead of Argentina at 10 and Italy at 14, and just behind Scotland.
But should Japan be in the 6 Nations or the SH Championship?
Frankly, the 6 Nations should be rugby.
Do it! Banzai!
Well said. They should rebrand the European Championship as the Northern Championship and let Japan enter, alongside installing relegation and premonition from the despicable closed shop that is the 6N.
I dare say Japan would get promoted within two seasons, max. And they would ignite the 6N while Italy get much needed practice against teams nearer their ability. Such as Romania.
Japan is in Asia and should join Australia, Argentina, New Zealand and South Africa in the SH championship, the 6 nations is a European championship and already big enough
Mr. Anabobazina, that does raise another legitimate criticism, not of Thunberg but some of her supporters.
She's simultaneously a wise grown up to whom we ought listen, and a vulnerable child who cannot possibly be criticised.
This depends whether the criticism is a valid rebuttal of the political statements she is making, or if the criticism is that she is a "vulnerable child".
The girl is remarkable....and transcends...
Those folk who dislike her tend to be of a certain ilk...white, older men who like Brexit and Trump. If she winds up those miserable, sour faced sonsofbitches she is certainly doing something right....
However you tackle climate change - whether by State intervention, or market-based methods - it necessarily involves the end of making profit from digging fossil fuels out of the ground.
People on the right-wing have been played by special interests who want to make as much profit from digging up fossil fuels for as long as possible.
There are plenty of different market mechanisms that they could have advocated to deal with this issue, but they took the easy way out and simply swallowed the left-bashing lines they were fed by special interests. Intellectually and morally bankrupt, but it's okay because bashing the lefties for the lolz is all that matters.
It's pretty much the same thing with Brexit. No Deal will piss off Remainer lefties the most, so long-standing principles like the rule of law can be sacrificed on that altar.
This does often seem to be the prime motivation.
Trump, for example, is an even better case in point. It's really not objectively possible to conclude that he is fit to hold the office he does. But he sure does piss off the liberals - so go Donald go!
It's all a bit sterile and tacky and reprehensible.
Boris does not want No Deal, if he won a majority at the next general election he would throw the DUP under a bus within 5 minutes and go for the Withdrawal Agreement with a NI only backstop and just remove the backstop for GB.
However while the DUP hold the balance of power he has to say he will only go for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop in full or No Deal, ideologically though he is not Nigel Farage who really does support No Deal and opposes the Withdrawal Agreement outright, backstop or no backstop
The DUP doesn’t hold the balance of power anymore. Johnson saw to that a few weeks ago.
They do in terms of passing the Withdrawal Agreement, as the Brady amendment showed the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop can pass with DUP support but the DUP will vote down the Withdrawal Agreement plus the backstop
The Brady Agreement was in January. You are implying that the DUP might change their opinion on the WA-Backstop, but all other MPs will vote exactly the same as in January.
The problem with Scotland finishing 4th is that they'd not automatically qualify for the next world cup which the qualification setup assumes will happen. (there is no method for the 6 nations to enter the qualifying)
That's easy - you just replace Scotland with Georgia in the Six Nations, if they finish above 4th; otherwise, just revert to a 5 Nations.
I did wonder if there should be a promotion/relegation playoff for the final spot of the 6-nations
Of isi.
regardless of whether they change entry to the 6 nations, they should definately play some (more) matches against the next tier nations
Not good enough. Should be one up, one down every year. Georgia have won the European Championship several years running. How are they supposed to develop when they aren’t able to advance? Meanwhile Italy are annual wooden spoon fodder in the 6N.
Should have been done long time ago
That was a wonderful game of rugby. Japan play the sport beautifully, which itself is more than enough reason to give them a slot in a Tier 1 competition.
Right now Japan are at 9 in the rankings, ahead of Argentina at 10 and Italy at 14, and just behind Scotland.
But should Japan be in the 6 Nations or the SH Championship?
Frankly, the 6 Nations should be rushing to embrace another Northern Hemisphere side with great skills, lots of money, and a massive potential fan base. It would add lustre to the tournament, and exoticism - Japan v England in Kyoto every year! - and Japan would probably have a better chance than Italy of regularly beating the big teams, and becoming a big team. Plus it would be brilliant for world rugby.
Do it! Banzai!
There was once an attempt at a Gridiron Football League (I think it was called the World League) which flopped in no little part because the teams had to fly over the atlantic and back every couple of weeks. I cannot see the current 6 Nations wanting to fly to Japan and back once a year, and Japan finding a home from home in Europe is not going to help build the fan base there.
A Japanese tour of Europe every 2 years with 2 of the top 8 nations visiting Japan each year would be a more practical solution.
But the SH championship includes Argentina, Oz, South Africa and NZ. So they have to fly MUCH bigger distances than London-Tokyo, and they have to fly them many times over. Rather than just one return flight a season.
And yet the SH championship still produces the best teams.
Ireland need a converted try to tie. 7 minutes to do it.....
I can see a scenario in this group where scotland, if they lose to Japan and Samoa, fail to qualify automatically for the next world cup.
Theoretically this is a good result for Scotland as it opens up the possibility of avoiding NZ in the next round. But more likely it consigns them to 3rd or 4th.
The problem with Scotland finishing 4th is fying)
That's easy - you just replace Scotland with Georgia in the Six Nations, if they finish above 4th; otherwise, just revert to a 5 Nations.
I did wonder if there should be a promotion/relegation playoff for the final spot of the 6-nations
Of course there should be. The closed shop system is a sporting disgrace and an affront to competition. It only persists because the blazers prefer a trip to Rome every spring rather than roughing in in Tbilisi.
regardless of whether they change entry to the 6 nations, they should definately play some (more) matches against the next tier nations
.
Should have been done long time ago
That was a wonderful game of rugby. Japan play the sport beautifully, which itself is more than enough reason to give them a slot in a Tier 1 competition.
Right now Japan are at 9 in the rankings, ahead of Argentina at 10 and Italy at 14, and just behind Scotland.
But should Japan be in the 6 Nations or the SH Championship?
Frankly, the 6 Nations should be rugby.
Do it! Banzai!
Well said. They should rebrand the European Championship as the Northern Championship and let Japan enter, alongside installing relegation and premonition from the despicable closed shop that is the 6N.
I dare say Japan would get promoted within two seasons, max. And they would ignite the 6N while Italy get much needed practice against teams nearer their ability. Such as Romania.
Japan is in Asia and should join Australia, Argentina, New Zealand and South Africa in the SH championship, the 6 nations is a European championship and already big enough
Well that’s one option but clearly you didn’t read my post properly as under my suggestion the 6N would remain as six nations...
I posted a photo and said ‘this is what my football team think of Greta’ or words to that effect, and you decided to imply I need counselling, call me ‘ a poor dear’ etc etc. I think you should take a deep breath and read things properly before you slip into Student Grant mode and call people things you wouldn’t dare say to their face. I like the fact that I knock about with people who have completely different way of looking at things from the cosseted world of PB, it’s always fun to note the contrasting opinions and imagine how the two groups would act if they met
People hate being challenged, it’s true. And we’re all hypocrites. But there does seem to be increasing evidence of a climate emergency. So what is the solution?
Fewer long haul flights?
Without doubt. I’ve certainly cut back on mine. But aeroplanes are a relatively small part of the equation. It’s cars and factory emissions that cause the biggest problems, along with environmental degradation. Our best hope from here is technology.
You only have to take up cycling for a week or two to realise how unnecessary a lot of car journeys are.
Travelling across the globe for work meetings in the age of video calls is crazy too, if we really believe air travel to be so bad for the environment.
People are fat, lazy, inconsiderate and unhealthy, so it’s no surprise how they treat the planet
Some previous projects I have worked on I have been able to work from home, while other people on my team have been working from Italy, Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Ireland, etc.
On my current project the project manager insists on me travelling down to London each week, and I'm considered eccentric by taking the train rather than flying. I've seen massive arguments ensue when a harmless (if dull) conversation about house prices and Brexit has turned to people who find it cheaper to live in France somewhere and commute by plane to London each week.
There is a massive cultural change that would be helpful, as well as technological change. I don't know how else to make that change than by making the issue more prominent - by marching, say - or by introducing some taxes to create a price signal. What else would you suggest?
Boris does not want No Deal, if he won a majority at the next general election he would throw the DUP under a bus within 5 minutes and go for the Withdrawal Agreement with a NI only backstop and just remove the backstop for GB.
However while the DUP hold the balance of power he has to say he will only go for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop in full or No Deal, ideologically though he is not Nigel Farage who really does support No Deal and opposes the Withdrawal Agreement outright, backstop or no backstop
The DUP doesn’t hold the balance of power anymore. Johnson saw to that a few weeks ago.
They do in terms of passing the Withdrawal Agreement, as the Brady amendment showed the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop can pass with DUP support but the DUP will vote down the Withdrawal Agreement plus the backstop
The Brady Agreement was in January. You are implying that the DUP might change their opinion on the WA-Backstop, but all other MPs will vote exactly the same as in January.
The DUP will never back the backstop, they will vote for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop which is the only Brexit solution to have passed the current Commons
Ireland need a converted try to tie. 7 minutes to do it.....
I can see a scenario in this group where scotland, if they lose to Japan and Samoa, fail to qualify automatically for the next world cup.
Theoretically this is a good result for Scotland as it opens up the possibility of avoiding NZ in the next round. But more likely it consigns them to 3rd or 4th.
The problem with Scotland finishing 4th is fying)
That's easy - you just replace Scotland with Georgia in the Six Nations, if they finish above 4th; otherwise, just revert to a 5 Nations.
I did wonder if there should be a promotion/relegation playoff for the final spot of the 6-nations
Of course there should be. The closed shop Tbilisi.
regardless of whether they change entry to the 6 nations, they should definately play some (more) matches against the next tier nations
.
Should have been done long time ago
That was a wonderful game of rugby. Japan play the sport beautifully, which itself is more than enough reason to give them a slot in a Tier 1 competition.
Right now Japan are at 9 in the rankings, ahead of Argentina at 10 and Italy at 14, and just behind Scotland.
But should Japan be in the 6 Nations or the SH Championship?
Frankly, the 6 Nations should be rugby.
Do it! Banzai!
Well said. They should rebrand the European Championship as the Northern Championship and let Japan enter, alongside installing relegation and premonition from the despicable closed shop that is the 6N.
I dare say Japan would get promoted within two seasons, max. And they would ignite the 6N while Italy get much needed practice against teams nearer their ability. Such as Romania.
Japan is in Asia and should join Australia, Argentina, New Zealand and South Africa in the SH championship, the 6 nations is a European championship and already big enough
Well that’s one option but clearly you didn’t read my post properly as under my suggestion the 6N would remain as six nations...
By dumping Italy who should stay permanently in the 6 nations as a European nation
Spot on. With sensible scheduling Japan wouldn’t have many long haul flights...
The rugby blazers either want to expand rugby, or they don't (and the sport will wither)
Bill Beaumont and Co have - so far - done a triumphant job in Japan, alongside the hosts. Now it is up to the rest of rugby to take it further. This is a singular opportunity.
What is it about Greta that upsets the middle aged white snowflakes?
I have no idea. Personally I'm barely aware of her. Just a fun and interesting person having their time in the spotlight who we'll recall in nostalgia TV programmes about their era, like Cynthia Payne, Mary Whitehouse, Basil Brush etc..
Do you remember the pople who made a big thing of the Antarctic Ozone Hole being caused by CFCs? ... I thought not.
Nevertheless their efforts have had a huge positive effect on the global environment.
Canada's carbon footprint on a per person basis is fucking horrific tbh, She should have sued them before France.
This made me look at the CO2 equivalents per capita in more detail.
Not surprisingly Canada is bad at 16.7 tonnes per capita, just trailing Australia at 17.2, USA with 17.2, so these three are pretty similar. (2014 Figures, the latest in the website below).
A couple of things stand out for me. One is how bad many small states are. For the oil rich and filthy rich Gulf States this is maybe to be expected, but small countries like Luxembourg, Singapore and Trindad and Tobago(!) are all above Australia. I find this surprising. Bahrain is at a massive 73.1 tonnes, over four times that of Australia!
The UK really has been making an effort. In 2008 it was 9.2 and had been in around this or a tad higher in the naughties, but then it drops steadily so that in 2014 it was 7.1. A reduction in over 20% in 6 years is quite impressive. In the same period Germany which likes to think of itself as a Green country has only dropped from 9.9 to 9.4 over that same period.
Australia and Luxembourg emit more per capita than the US on that chart with Bahrain, Qatar and Singapore the worst emitters
This is out of date data. It is even better than that.
By 2017 UK per cap C02 was down by another 20% to 5.7 tonnes. The elec supply is well on the way to being decarbonised.
But unfortunately the E2R tossers cannot see beyond the end of their self-obsesses noses. They are just the latest lot of unthinking vanity protesters.
They do not seem to want to do anything about Ireland still getting a good chunk of its electricity from burning peat (on the way out, but not gone yet afaik). CO2 per cap in Ireland - 8.2 tonnes, despite a booming population up about 20% in 15 years.
My favourite was the one interviewed by Sky protesting in London who eventually admitted that she had commuted in from Holland to protest, that she had an extra house in Holland, and that she commuted in from Holland to London every week for work. There's someone making personal sacrifices.
CO2 emissions per cap in NL - 10.3 tonnes.
Point this out and they don't argue back with reason - they accuse you of gaslighting :-).
If I thought they were triggered by Greta I would say it to their face. What are they going to do? Presumably they can handle criticism like anyone else. But I’m ending this here, you can have the last word. Go ahead. I merely wonder why grown men get so upset by this girl. It really is bizarre.
Why the big deal about people being 'triggered'? Just means something or someone pisses you off. Nothing wrong with that. In fact there'd be something wrong if it never happened. It would imply you were on too much medication.
To me, it comes across like that playground thing of "Bothered? Bothered?" when someone clearly is. Or (closely related) the idea that getting an 'A' for effort on your report is some sort of stigma.
All very much a male thing, in other words. Women don't worry about being seen to try very hard at something or to be 'triggered' by things.
So, c'mon, let's all do it. There is no shame in this. Let's all let go and get utterly triggered together.
Spot on. With sensible scheduling Japan wouldn’t have many long haul flights...
The rugby blazers either want to expand rugby, or they don't (and the sport will wither)
Bill Beaumont and Co have - so far - done a triumphant job in Japan, alongside the hosts. Now it is up to the rest of rugby to take it further. This is a singular opportunity.
The issue is the clubs. They are already spitting blood about handing their players over for extended periods and adding another month to the 6 Nations would see them taking legal action to prevent it. Look at how Lions tours have been curtailed thanks to them.
By dumping Italy who should stay permanently in the 6 nations as a European nation
There is a second tier competition (the championships) which could have a promotion/relegation (I'd expect it to require a playoff). it currently contains Georgia, Spain, Russia, Romania, Belgium and Portugal. unfortunately there is a massive gulf between Georgia and most of the rest
Hell, I'm 'greener' than Thunberg or Prince Harry.
Well, you're not because the actions of any one individual are irrelevant. GT is building a global movement and mobilising millions for her cause.
Apart from his enthusiasm for F1, I do think @Morris_Dancer probably leaves a pretty small carbon footprint.
While personally I try to, I am very aware that some of the knock ons of my workplace are quite environmentally destructive. The amount of single use equipment is understandable from the economic and hygiene perspective, but criminal in terms of waste. There is no recycling.
It is hard to deny my Keralan and Filipino staff their annual trip home either, but that sort of long haul travel is intrinsic to migration in the modern world.
There are no easy answers, but reducing fossil fuel usage has to be part of the answer. A lot of reforestation would help too.
Those folk who dislike her tend to be of a certain ilk...white, older men who like Brexit and Trump. If she winds up those miserable, sour faced sonsofbitches she is certainly doing something right....
Exactly. She annoys exactly the type of right wing shit who richly deserves such agitation so she should be applauded for that regardless of the worthiness of her cause.
Ireland need a converted try to tie. 7 minutes to do it.....
I can see a scenario in this group where scotland, if they lose to Japan and Samoa, fail to qualify automatically for the next world cup.
Theoretically this is a good result for Scotland as it opens up the possibility of avoiding NZ in the next round. But more likely it consigns them to 3rd or 4th.
The problem with Scotland finishing 4th is fying)
That's easy - you just replace Scotland with Georgia in the Six Nations, if they finish above 4th; otherwise, just revert to a 5 Nations.
I did wonder if there should be a promotion/relegation playoff for the final spot of the 6-nations
Of course there should be. The closed shop Tbilisi.
regardless of whether they change entry to the 6 nations, they should definately play some (more) matches against the next tier nations
.
Should have been done long time ago
That Do it! Banzai!
Well said. They should rebrand the European Championship as the Northern Championship and let Japan enter, alongside installing relegation and premonition from the despicable closed shop that is the 6N.
I dare say Japan would get promoted within two seasons, max. And they would ignite the 6N while Italy get much needed practice against teams nearer their ability. Such as Romania.
Japan is in Asia and should join Australia, Argentina, New Zealand and South Africa in the SH championship, the 6 nations is a European championship and already big enough
Well that’s one option but clearly you didn’t read my post properly as under my suggestion the 6N would remain as six nations...
By dumping Italy who should stay permanently in the 6 nations as a European nation
Why? Italy are no good. They've had decades of opportunity, but gone backwards. They've never beaten England, ever, and don't look like doing so. And the game there is kinda stuck.
Rome is a lovely place to go to see a game, but so is Tokyo. And the food is even better. And Japan will give the rest of the tournament a proper new element, and maybe a new winner.
Because, yes, it is obligtory for them to be driving in their cars when not out protesting about climate change.
Idiot.
Obligatory? No.
Likely? Yes.
Look up “fixed travel time budget”.
If the car owners in the crowd spent hours on their feet not driving anywhere there would have been a massive reduction in VMT, regardless how they travelled to and from the protest.
Idiot^2.
Edit. Not to count the reduction in traffic caused by other people not driving because roads were closed for the protest.
Because closed roads never impact on drivers, causing them to greatly increase their carbon emissions as they grind along at two miles an hour on the clogged alternative routes.
Do you even drive? Does DVLC keep the terminally stupid off the roads?
You're looking really very silly now. You made a quip that was a bit lame, but doubling down when you're obviously wrong is dumb.
He is not obviously wrong. I've never immunity from sarcasm.
You may need to contact the Greta helpline, though It seems very busy.
This is how people in my football team are seeing it
What is it about Greta that upsets the middle aged white snowflakes?
Its fatigue of whiny brats predicting imminent disaster and demanding everyone else does what we want.
We all have it to varying degrees.
That's not quite true.
People hate being challenged, it’s true. And we’re all hypocrites. But there does seem to be increasing evidence of a climate emergency. So what is the solution?
Fewer long haul flights?
Without doubt. I’ve certainly cut back on mine. But aeroplanes are a relatively small part of the equation. It’s cars and factory emissions that cause the biggest problems, along with environmental degradation. Our best hope from here is technology.
The other big one is your car, and whether you have halved (or better) the C02 used by your house. Owner occupiers are on the whole terrible at this.
By 2017 UK per cap C02 was down by another 20% to 5.7 tonnes. The elec supply is well on the way to being decarbonised.
But unfortunately the E2R tossers cannot see beyond the end of their self-obsesses noses. They are just the latest lot of unthinking vanity protesters.
They do not seem to want to do anything about Ireland still getting a good chunk of its electricity from burning peat (on the way out, but not gone yet afaik). CO2 per cap in Ireland - 8.2 tonnes, despite a booming population up about 20% in 15 years.
My favourite was the one interviewed by Sky protesting in London who eventually admitted that she had commuted in from Holland to protest, that she had an extra house in Holland, and that she commuted in from Holland to London every week for work. There's someone making personal sacrifices.
CO2 emissions per cap in NL - 10.3 tonnes.
Point this out and they don't argue back with reason - they accuse you of gaslighting :-).
If you listen to the media in this country you would think that Britain is doing very badly with regards to all sorts of enivronmental issues. In reality we are doing surprisingly well, whether it is in reducing plastic usage, or switching to renewable electricity generation, or adopting electric and hybrid vehicles.
We really need to get away from the mindset that environmental problems are too daunting for us, and there's no point to our own efforts as they are dwarfed by the failure of others. We need to understand that we are making steady progress, and in the long run it might not even be all that difficult or expensive for our activities to become environmentally sustainable.
Nor should we see this as a party political issue, as Labour, coalition, and even Conservative governments have all played their part in the progress we have made.
Spot on. With sensible scheduling Japan wouldn’t have many long haul flights...
The rugby blazers either want to expand rugby, or they don't (and the sport will wither)
Bill Beaumont and Co have - so far - done a triumphant job in Japan, alongside the hosts. Now it is up to the rest of rugby to take it further. This is a singular opportunity.
The issue is the clubs. They are already spitting blood about handing their players over for extended periods and adding another month to the 6 Nations would see them taking legal action to prevent it. Look at how Lions tours have been curtailed thanks to them.
Get rid of the Lions tours, Or make them once-a-decade specials. They are anachronistic. British and Irish lions? What's that about anyway?!
OR just relegate Italy and put Japan in, as anabozina says (after a couple of years of promotion/relegation). There has to be a penalty for consistently coming LAST.
There is certainly nothing to see in the Tory Islamophobia inquiry which for one reason or another, despite Boris's pledge, does not seem to have started.
Ireland need a converted try to tie. 7 minutes to do it.....
I can see a scenario in this group where scotland, if they lose to Japan and Samoa, fail to qualify automatically for the next world cup.
Theoretically this is a good result for Scotland as it opens up the possibility of avoiding NZ in the next round. But more likely it consigns them to 3rd or 4th.
The problem with Scotland finishing 4th is fying)
That's easy - you just replace Scotland with Georgia in the Six Nations, if they finish above 4th; otherwise, just revert to a 5 Nations.
I did wonder if there should be a promotion/relegation playoff for the final spot of the 6-nations
Of course there should be. The closed shop Tbilisi.
regardless of whether they change entry to the 6 nations, they should definately play some (more) matches against the next tier nations
.
Should have been done long time ago
That Do it! Banzai!
Well said. They should rebrand the European Championship as the Northern Championship and let Japan enter, alongside installing relegation and premonition from the despicable closed shop that is the 6N.
I dare say Japan would get promoted within two seasons, max. And they would ignite the 6N while Italy get much needed practice against teams nearer their ability. Such as Romania.
Japan is in Asia and should join Australia, Argentina, New Zealand and South Africa in the SH championship, the 6 nations is a European championship and already big enough
Well that’s one option but clearly you didn’t read my post properly as under my suggestion the 6N would remain as six nations...
By dumping Italy who should stay permanently in the 6 nations as a European nation
Why? Italy are no good. They've had decades of opportunity, but gone backwards. They've never beaten England, ever, and don't look like doing so. And the game there is kinda stuck.
Rome is a lovely place to go to see a game, but so is Tokyo. And the food is even better. And Japan will give the rest of the tournament a proper new element, and maybe a new winner.
However you tackle climate change - whether by State intervention, or market-based methods - it necessarily involves the end of making profit from digging fossil fuels out of the ground.
People on the right-wing have been played by special interests who want to make as much profit from digging up fossil fuels for as long as possible.
There are plenty of different market mechanisms that they could have advocated to deal with this issue, but they took the easy way out and simply swallowed the left-bashing lines they were fed by special interests. Intellectually and morally bankrupt, but it's okay because bashing the lefties for the lolz is all that matters.
It's pretty much the same thing with Brexit. No Deal will piss off Remainer lefties the most, so long-standing principles like the rule of law can be sacrificed on that altar.
What it comes down to is most people struggle from paycheck to paycheck. A few, the lucky upper middle classes, significantly overrepresented on this board, have more money than they need and are able to sustain a pleasant quality of life.
For everyone else though, life is about making ends meet. It is about totting up the items in your trolley at tescos before you get to the checkout. It is about making a hundred quid last the whole week, that last week before payday. It is about working a job you probably hate to keep a roof over your head.
So when somebody like Greta Thunberg comes along whining and complaining, most people look at her and laugh. She's never known hardship. She's a child. What did any of us know at sixteen?
And the environmentalists want us to give up the few luxuries we have... they want us to give up the clapped out car we can barely afford, the car that halves the journey to and from the daily drudge of our jobs, gives us an extra hour a day, and is so much better than the bus. They want us to give up the cheap EasyJet flight and the two weeks in the sun that for most people is the only respite from reality they get. They want to tax us more so that we consume less, when really most people barely "consume" at all, beyond absolute subsistence. Most people just want to live, and not be lectured to by people who travel the world in private jets.
The likes of extinction rebellion want us to don hair shirts and flagellate ourselves, taking on all the characteristcs of a doomsday cult, a phony religion, while closing down half of london so they can have a drum circle bongo session when all we really want is to get to work on time so the boss doesn't give us stick.
Meanwhile economies like India and China take leaps and bounds in improving their living standards thanks to the white heat of industry.
Most people understand this intuitively and consider the eco-loons to be just that. Loons.
People hate being challenged, it’s true. And we’re all hypocrites. But there does seem to be increasing evidence of a climate emergency. So what is the solution?
Fewer long haul flights?
Without doubt. I’ve certainly cut back on mine. But aeroplanes are a relatively small part of the equation. It’s cars and factory emissions that cause the biggest problems, along with environmental degradation. Our best hope from here is technology.
You only have to take up cycling for a week or two to realise how unnecessary a lot of car journeys are.
Travelling across the globe for work meetings in the age of video calls is crazy too, if we really believe air travel to be so bad for the environment.
People are fat, lazy, inconsiderate and unhealthy, so it’s no surprise how they treat the planet
Some previous projects I have worked on I have been able to work from home, while other people on my team have been working from Italy, Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Ireland, etc.
On my current project the project manager insists on me travelling down to London each week, and I'm considered eccentric by taking the train rather than flying. I've seen massive arguments ensue when a harmless (if dull) conversation about house prices and Brexit has turned to people who find it cheaper to live in France somewhere and commute by plane to London each week.
There is a massive cultural change that would be helpful, as well as technological change. I don't know how else to make that change than by making the issue more prominent - by marching, say - or by introducing some taxes to create a price signal. What else would you suggest?
Perhaps higher taxes on ecologically unsound travel, or maybe tax breaks on the reverse as its only the affluent who can afford to constantly use the former I guess
More cycle lanes, more pedestrianised areas?
I don't think marches do that much good, because so many of the people at the forefront of these campaigns are instinctively off putting to a lot of the target audience. We can see from the reaction to Greta Thurnberg. It seems that most people who champion her are middle class, quite affluent, and reading from the metropolitan liberal handbook, and they take extreme offence on her behalf if anyone takes the piss out of her. But people who aren't in that bracket don't have the time or money to 'waste' thinking about the issue, and don't appreciate being lectured by those who do
My mind keeps coming back to this man as our only hope!
On the environment I regret that I drive a (gorgeous, cosseting) big Volvo diseasel rather than having hung on and bought a Tesla. To mitigate the damage to the environment I drive a little slower to burn less carbon dioxide and to spend a few more minutes each trip being cosseted by those seats and astonished by that sound system.
Why the big deal about people being 'triggered'? Just means something or someone pisses you off. Nothing wrong with that. In fact there'd be something wrong if it never happened. It would imply you were on too much medication.
To me, it comes across like that playground thing of "Bothered? Bothered?" when someone clearly is. Or (closely related) the idea that getting an 'A' for effort on your report is some sort of stigma.
All very much a male thing, in other words. Women don't worry about being seen to try very hard at something or to be 'triggered' by things.
So, c'mon, let's all do it. There is no shame in this. Let's all let go and get utterly triggered together.
Wotcha Dave!
*EDIT* That was an impression of Trigger from Only Fools and Horses, I'm not implying your real name is Dave
Spot on. With sensible scheduling Japan wouldn’t have many long haul flights...
The rugby blazers either want to expand rugby, or they don't (and the sport will wither)
Bill Beaumont and Co have - so far - done a triumphant job in Japan, alongside the hosts. Now it is up to the rest of rugby to take it further. This is a singular opportunity.
The issue is the clubs. They are already spitting blood about handing their players over for extended periods and adding another month to the 6 Nations would see them taking legal action to prevent it. Look at how Lions tours have been curtailed thanks to them.
Get rid of the Lions tours, Or make them once-a-decade specials. They are anachronistic. British and Irish lions? What's that about anyway?!
OR just relegate Italy and put Japan in, as anabozina says (after a couple of years of promotion/relegation). There has to be a penalty for consistently coming LAST.
Lions tours are rugby's pinnacle. Get rid of them and you lose something very, very special. A second division sounds like a much better idea. It will raise standards more widely, too.
My school gave the world Lord Nelson, Lord Ashcroft and Tim Westwood amongst others I mean Tim F ing Westwood. I could have had his locker!
Mine gave us Michael Adebolajo
Ken Clarke, Robin Leigh Pemberton, Geoff "the complete" Hoon Ed Balls, Ed Davey.
Oh and D H Lawrence. And three more current MP-types I have hardly heard of - Piers Marchant, James Morris MP (did his mum like AA Milne?), Jonathon Bullock MEP.
Davey is shaping up well as one of the more rational members of the Lib Dems.
Lauda finem. Another ON! Hello.
Heh. Thanks.
Praise the End of the Brexit process, anyway. When it has happened.
Strikes me that if that slogan was invented now, David Lammy would be off on one about Nicky Lauda's mother being potentially offended.
Those folk who dislike her tend to be of a certain ilk...white, older men who like Brexit and Trump. If she winds up those miserable, sour faced sonsofbitches she is certainly doing something right....
Exactly. She annoys exactly the type of right wing shit who richly deserves such agitation so she should be applauded for that regardless of the worthiness of her cause.
Personally I think "right wing shits" should be feel agitated exactly because of the "worthiness" of her cause. People who agitate "right wing shits" just because they are "right wing shits" are usually "shits" (could be left, could be right or centre shits) themselves.
BTW this leads me onto something else that annoys me, which you see all over political discussions, and I have read it at least twice this afternoon on this forum. Just because a movement, cause, campaign, political opinion has some "shits" supporting them, does not make the movement, cause, campaign or political opinion itself shit.
What is it about Greta that upsets the middle aged white snowflakes?
I have no idea. Personally I'm barely aware of her. Just a fun and interesting person having their time in the spotlight who we'll recall in nostalgia TV programmes about their era, like Cynthia Payne, Mary Whitehouse, Basil Brush etc..
Do you remember the pople who made a big thing of the Antarctic Ozone Hole being caused by CFCs? ... I thought not.
Nevertheless their efforts have had a huge positive effect on the global environment.
No, but they didn't have the personal notoriety of this girl. Anita Roddick. Tonya Harding. Lady Gaga. Peewee Herman. They are celebrities that become very famous for a time, then they're forgotten and dusted down when we look back on their era. That's Greta Thornberg. I'm sure she will be there as a talking head, chuckling at her younger self.
Spot on. With sensible scheduling Japan wouldn’t have many long haul flights...
The rugby blazers either want to expand rugby, or they don't (and the sport will wither)
Bill Beaumont and Co have - so far - done a triumphant job in Japan, alongside the hosts. Now it is up to the rest of rugby to take it further. This is a singular opportunity.
The issue is the clubs. They are already spitting blood about handing their players over for extended periods and adding another month to the 6 Nations would see them taking legal action to prevent it. Look at how Lions tours have been curtailed thanks to them.
Get rid of the Lions tours, Or make them once-a-decade specials. They are anachronistic. British and Irish lions? What's that about anyway?!
OR just relegate Italy and put Japan in, as anabozina says (after a couple of years of promotion/relegation). There has to be a penalty for consistently coming LAST.
Lions tours are rugby's pinnacle. Get rid of them and you lose something very, very special. A second division sounds like a much better idea. It will raise standards more widely, too.
That's a very Anglocentric - or British-Isles-centric point of view. It's also plain wrong, and outdated.
For most of rugby, now, the pinnacle is the World Cup. Clearly. As we see today.
Of course if your attitude prevails then rugby will fall back to its English colonial roots, and it will never grow beyond its present heartlands. Which would be a damn shame. Japan also play superbly entertaining rugby. Let 'em in!
People hate being challenged, it’s true. And we’re all hypocrites. But there does seem to be increasing evidence of a climate emergency. So what is the solution?
Fewer long haul flights?
Without doubt. I’ve certainly cut back on mine. But aeroplanes are a relatively small part of the equation. It’s cars and factory emissions that cause the biggest problems, along with environmental degradation. Our best hope from here is technology.
You only have to take up cycling for a week or two to realise how unnecessary a lot of car journeys are.
Travelling across the globe for work meetings in the age of video calls is crazy too, if we really believe air travel to be so bad for the environment.
People are fat, lazy, inconsiderate and unhealthy, so it’s no surprise how they treat the planet
Some previous projects I have worked on I have been able to work from home, while other people on my team have been working from Italy, Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Ireland, etc.
On my curren
Perhaps higher taxes on ecologically unsound travel, or maybe tax breaks on the reverse as its only the affluent who can afford to constantly use the former I guess
More cycle lanes, more pedestrianised areas?
I don't think marches do that much good, because so many of the people at the forefront of these campaigns are instinctively off putting to a lot of the target audience. We can see from the reaction to Greta Thurnberg. It seems that most people who champion her are middle class, quite affluent, and reading from the metropolitan liberal handbook, and they take extreme offence on her behalf if anyone takes the piss out of her. But people who aren't in that bracket don't have the time or money to 'waste' thinking about the issue, and don't appreciate being lectured by those who do
My mind keeps coming back to this man as our only hope!
Climate change is not just of interests of western liberals, it is very much a concern of poorer peoples world wide. The climate strikes were well supported in Africa, Latin America, and Asia ex China (where public protests are banned).
There are certainly many other issues in the world, as @kyf_100 eloquently describes, but the vast majority of these become even more problematic if we ignore climate change.
Spot on. With sensible scheduling Japan wouldn’t have many long haul flights...
The rugby blazers either want to expand rugby, or they don't (and the sport will wither)
Bill Beaumont and Co have - so far - done a triumphant job in Japan, alongside the hosts. Now it is up to the rest of rugby to take it further. This is a singular opportunity.
The issue is the clubs. They are already spitting blood about handing their players over for extended periods and adding another month to the 6 Nations would see them taking legal action to prevent it. Look at how Lions tours have been curtailed thanks to them.
Get rid of the Lions tours, Or make them once-a-decade specials. They are anachronistic. British and Irish lions? What's that about anyway?!
OR just relegate Italy and put Japan in, as anabozina says (after a couple of years of promotion/relegation). There has to be a penalty for consistently coming LAST.
Lions tours are rugby's pinnacle. Get rid of them and you lose something very, very special. A second division sounds like a much better idea. It will raise standards more widely, too.
Lions tour WERE rugby's pinnacle.
How many players now would rather be on a winning Lions tour rather than be World Cup winners ?
Spot on. With sensible scheduling Japan wouldn’t have many long haul flights...
The rugby blazers either want to expand rugby, or they don't (and the sport will wither)
Bill Beaumont and Co have - so far - done a triumphant job in Japan, alongside the hosts. Now it is up to the rest of rugby to take it further. This is a singular opportunity.
The issue is the clubs. They are already spitting blood about handing their players over for extended periods and adding another month to the 6 Nations would see them taking legal action to prevent it. Look at how Lions tours have been curtailed thanks to them.
Get rid of the Lions tours, Or make them once-a-decade specials. They are anachronistic. British and Irish lions? What's that about anyway?!
OR just relegate Italy and put Japan in, as anabozina says (after a couple of years of promotion/relegation). There has to be a penalty for consistently coming LAST.
Lions tours are rugby's pinnacle. Get rid of them and you lose something very, very special. A second division sounds like a much better idea. It will raise standards more widely, too.
That's a very Anglocentric - or British-Isles-centric point of view. It's also plain wrong, and outdated.
For most of rugby, now, the pinnacle is the World Cup. Clearly. As we see today.
Of course if your attitude prevails then rugby will fall back to its English colonial roots, and it will never grow beyond its present heartlands. Which would be a damn shame. Japan also play superbly entertaining rugby. Let 'em in!
Rugby is an English colonial game. I quite like that, I have to say. We also gave the world football, which isn't. Some things are best kept in the club!
Spot on. With sensible scheduling Japan wouldn’t have many long haul flights...
The rugby blazers either want to expand rugby, or they don't (and the sport will wither)
Bill Beaumont and Co have - so far - done a triumphant job in Japan, alongside the hosts. Now it is up to the rest of rugby to take it further. This is a singular opportunity.
The issue is the clubs. They are already spitting blood about handing their players over for extended periods and adding another month to the 6 Nations would see them taking legal action to prevent it. Look at how Lions tours have been curtailed thanks to them.
Get rid of the Lions tours, Or make them once-a-decade specials. They are anachronistic. British and Irish lions? What's that about anyway?!
OR just relegate Italy and put Japan in, as anabozina says (after a couple of years of promotion/relegation). There has to be a penalty for consistently coming LAST.
Lions tours are rugby's pinnacle. Get rid of them and you lose something very, very special. A second division sounds like a much better idea. It will raise standards more widely, too.
Lions tour WERE rugby's pinnacle.
How many players now would rather be on a winning Lions tour rather than be World Cup winners ?
Of course. When the Rugby World Cup started, it was inevitable - if it was a success, which it is - that it would become the acme of the game. It generates by far the most revenue, the most spectators, the most worldwide interest.
The so-far triumphant expansion into Asia has only compounded that.
Being in a winning Lions team is great fun, but a World Cup victory is far more important. Ask Johnny Wilkinson.
People hate being challenged, it’s true. And we’re all hypocrites. But there does seem to be increasing evidence of a climate emergency. So what is the solution?
Fewer long haul flights?
Without doubt. I’ve certainly cut back on mine. But aeroplanes are a relatively small part of the equation. It’s cars and factory emissions that cause the biggest problems, along with environmental degradation. Our best hope from here is technology.
You only have to take up cycling for a week or two to realise how unnecessary a lot of car journeys are.
Travelling across the globe for work meetings in the age of video calls is crazy too, if we really believe air travel to be so bad for the environment.
People are fat, lazy, inconsiderate and unhealthy, so it’s no surprise how they treat the planet
Some previous projects I have worked on I have been able to work from home, while other people on my team have been working from Italy, Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Ireland, etc.
On my curren
Perhaps higher taxes on ecologically unsound travel, or maybe tax breaks on the reverse as its only the affluent who can afford to constantly use the former I guess
More cycle lanes, more pedestrianised areas?
I and don't appreciate being lectured by those who do
My mind keeps coming back to this man as our only hope!
Climate change is not just of interests of western liberals, it is very much a concern of poorer peoples world wide. The climate strikes were well supported in Africa, Latin America, and Asia ex China (where public protests are banned).
There are certainly many other issues in the world, as @kyf_100 eloquently describes, but the vast majority of these become even more problematic if we ignore climate change.
Mitigating climate change is a huge commercial opportunity. The Chinese can certainly see that. They lead the world in "green" patent filings. They also realise they have to take action. Across Asia the pollution caused by fossil fuels is killing huge numbers of people. It is not sustainable.
Spot on. With sensible scheduling Japan wouldn’t have many long haul flights...
The rugby blazers either want to expand rugby, or they don't (and the sport will wither)
Bill Beaumont and Co have - so far - done a triumphant job in Japan, alongside the hosts. Now it is up to the rest of rugby to take it further. This is a singular opportunity.
The issue is the clubs. They are already spitting blood about handing their players over for extended periods and adding another month to the 6 Nations would see them taking legal action to prevent it. Look at how Lions tours have been curtailed thanks to them.
Get rid of the Lions tours, Or make them once-a-decade specials. They are anachronistic. British and Irish lions? What's that about anyway?!
OR just relegate Italy and put Japan in, as anabozina says (after a couple of years of promotion/relegation). There has to be a penalty for consistently coming LAST.
Lions tours are rugby's pinnacle. Get rid of them and you lose something very, very special. A second division sounds like a much better idea. It will raise standards more widely, too.
That's a very Anglocentric - or British-Isles-centric point of view. It's also plain wrong, and outdated.
For most of rugby, now, the pinnacle is the World Cup. Clearly. As we see today.
Of course if your attitude prevails then rugby will fall back to its English colonial roots, and it will never grow beyond its present heartlands. Which would be a damn shame. Japan also play superbly entertaining rugby. Let 'em in!
Unlike international football (until the introduction of the UEFA nations league) there have always been international rugby tournaments where countries play each other at the same or similar standard. what there has never been is a mechanism for is for countries to climb the ladder to the top. any changes would inevitably involve the tweaking of what currently exists. The argument that is currently being made against Italy could be made against Argentina for the southern hemisphere tournament.
Spot on. With sensible scheduling Japan wouldn’t have many long haul flights...
The rugby blazers either want to expand rugby, or they don't (and the sport will wither)
Bill Beaumont and Co have - so far - done a triumphant job in Japan, alongside the hosts. Now it is up to the rest of rugby to take it further. This is a singular opportunity.
The issue is the clubs. They are already spitting blood about handing their players over for extended periods and adding another month to the 6 Nations would see them taking legal action to prevent it. Look at how Lions tours have been curtailed thanks to them.
Get rid of the Lions tours, Or make them once-a-decade specials. They are anachronistic. British and Irish lions? What's that about anyway?!
OR just relegate Italy and put Japan in, as anabozina says (after a couple of years of promotion/relegation). There has to be a penalty for consistently coming LAST.
Lions tours are rugby's pinnacle. Get rid of them and you lose something very, very special. A second division sounds like a much better idea. It will raise standards more widely, too.
Lions tour WERE rugby's pinnacle.
How many players now would rather be on a winning Lions tour rather than be World Cup winners ?
How many players from the home nations are more likely to be on a winning Lions tour than be World Cup winners? But, yes, the World Cup is clearly more important, I get that. And rugby would continue without Lions tours, of course. But it will have lost something very special.
Spot on. With sensible scheduling Japan wouldn’t have many long haul flights...
The rugby blazers either want to expand rugby, or they don't (and the sport will wither)
Bill Beaumont and Co have - so far - done a triumphant job in Japan, alongside the hosts. Now it is up to the rest of rugby to take it further. This is a singular opportunity.
The issue is the clubs. They are already spitting blood about handing their players over for extended periods and adding another month to the 6 Nations would see them taking legal action to prevent it. Look at how Lions tours have been curtailed thanks to them.
Get rid of the Lions tours, Or make them once-a-decade specials. They are anachronistic. British and Irish lions? What's that about anyway?!
OR just relegate Italy and put Japan in, as anabozina says (after a couple of years of promotion/relegation). There has to be a penalty for consistently coming LAST.
Lions tours are rugby's pinnacle. Get rid of them and you lose something very, very special. A second division sounds like a much better idea. It will raise standards more widely, too.
That's a very Anglocentric - or British-Isles-centric point of view. It's also plain wrong, and outdated.
For most of rugby, now, the pinnacle is the World Cup. Clearly. As we see today.
Of course if your attitude prevails then rugby will fall back to its English colonial roots, and it will never grow beyond its present heartlands. Which would be a damn shame. Japan also play superbly entertaining rugby. Let 'em in!
Rugby is an English colonial game. I quite like that, I have to say. We also gave the world football, which isn't. Some things are best kept in the club!
We gave the world cricket, too - but we've just won the world cup, so we're doing OK. And even though we handed football over to the world, we still have the world's most popular football league.
We'll still do fine at rugby, even if it expands beyond the Anglophonie.
And now I must drive across a sunburned island to an airport. Later.
However you tackle climate change - whether by State intervention, or market-based methods - it necessarily involves the end of making profit from digging fossil fuels out of the ground.
Hear, hear! This cannot be said enough. This is the most important consideration in sorting out CO2 emmisions. The demand for energy is huge. Producing more electrical energy through wind power has no impact on global warming if we still burn the same amount of fossil fuels globally. Unfortunately if the price of oil/coal drops because more renewable energy is being produced, the same amount in tonnes/barrels will be still be bought and burnt, and the climate doesn't care what price that CO2 molecule cost.
Once we get far enough in alternative energy production and energy efficiency then oil/coal production becomes no longer profitable and we will start to pull less of the stuff out of the ground. Only then will our global emmisions start to drop. I have no real idea how far away we are from this "non-profitability point" but I fear we still have a long way to go.
Spot on. With sensible scheduling Japan wouldn’t have many long haul flights...
The rugby blazers either want to expand rugby, or they don't (and the sport will wither)
Bill Beaumont and Co have - so far - done a triumphant job in Japan, alongside the hosts. Now it is up to the rest of rugby to take it further. This is a singular opportunity.
The issue is the clubs. They are already spitting blood about handing their players over for extended periods and adding another month to the 6 Nations would see them taking legal action to prevent it. Look at how Lions tours have been curtailed thanks to them.
Get rid of the Lions tours, Or make them once-a-decade specials. They are anachronistic. British and Irish lions? What's that about anyway?!
OR just relegate Italy and put Japan in, as anabozina says (after a couple of years of promotion/relegation). There has to be a penalty for consistently coming LAST.
Lions tours are rugby's pinnacle. Get rid of them and you lose something very, very special. A second division sounds like a much better idea. It will raise standards more widely, too.
Lions tour WERE rugby's pinnacle.
How many players now would rather be on a winning Lions tour rather than be World Cup winners ?
Of course. When the Rugby World Cup started, it was inevitable - if it was a success, which it is - that it would become the acme of the game. It generates by far the most revenue, the most spectators, the most worldwide interest.
The so-far triumphant expansion into Asia has only compounded that.
Being in a winning Lions team is great fun, but a World Cup victory is far more important. Ask Johnny Wilkinson.
What do Lions tours now amount to ?
Nostalgia of John Dawes and Willie-John and middle aged blokes having a drinking holiday.
Spot on. With sensible scheduling Japan wouldn’t have many long haul flights...
The rugby blazers either want to expand rugby, or they don't (and the sport will wither)
Bill Beaumont and Co have - so far - done a triumphant job in Japan, alongside the hosts. Now it is up to the rest of rugby to take it further. This is a singular opportunity.
The issue is the clubs. They are already spitting blood about handing their players over for extended periods and adding another month to the 6 Nations would see them taking legal action to prevent it. Look at how Lions tours have been curtailed thanks to them.
Get rid of the Lions tours, Or make them once-a-decade specials. They are anachronistic. British and Irish lions? What's that about anyway?!
OR just relegate Italy and put Japan in, as anabozina says (after a couple of years of promotion/relegation). There has to be a penalty for consistently coming LAST.
Lions tours are rugby's pinnacle. Get rid of them and you lose something very, very special. A second division sounds like a much better idea. It will raise standards more widely, too.
That's a very Anglocentric - or British-Isles-centric point of view. It's also plain wrong, and outdated.
For most of rugby, now, the pinnacle is the World Cup. Clearly. As we see today.
Of course if your attitude prevails then rugby will fall back to its English colonial roots, and it will never grow beyond its present heartlands. Which would be a damn shame. Japan also play superbly entertaining rugby. Let 'em in!
Rugby is an English colonial game. I quite like that, I have to say. We also gave the world football, which isn't. Some things are best kept in the club!
Don't tell the french that they are one of the colonies
However you tackle climate change - whether by State intervention, or market-based methods - it necessarily involves the end of making profit from digging fossil fuels out of the ground.
Hear, hear! This cannot be said enough. This is the most important consideration in sorting out CO2 emmisions. The demand for energy is huge. Producing more electrical energy through wind power has no impact on global warming if we still burn the same amount of fossil fuels globally. Unfortunately if the price of oil/coal drops because more renewable energy is being produced, the same amount in tonnes/barrels will be still be bought and burnt, and the climate doesn't care what price that CO2 molecule cost.
Once we get far enough in alternative energy production and energy efficiency then oil/coal production becomes no longer profitable and we will start to pull less of the stuff out of the ground. Only then will our global emmisions start to drop. I have no real idea how far away we are from this "non-profitability point" but I fear we still have a long way to go.
So the profits made from oil and gas will become equivalent to one nectar point?
What about those people sat of vast fortunes and oil and gas, wouldn’t they put a fight? Buy some politicians to say that climate change isn’t real or something?
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
I greatly value progress and individual liberty. I'm certain feudal societies were greener and more sustainable than ours but I wouldn't want to live in them.
I agree with Foxy that climate change may make life much worse for the poorest in society but the message of austerity Greta and her ilk preach is not one that resonates with the vast majority of the public who already lead austere lives. I think this is why she is so polarising.
That article is interesting in that it states that green philosophy may not be compatible with liberalism and progress, which I suppose are the totemic beliefs of our society. Are we prepared to give them up in the name of the environment? I would guess not.
What is it about Greta that upsets the middle aged white snowflakes?
I have no idea. Personally I'm barely aware of her. Just a fun and interesting person having their time in the spotlight who we'll recall in nostalgia TV programmes about their era, like Cynthia Payne, Mary Whitehouse, Basil Brush etc..
Do you remember the pople who made a big thing of the Antarctic Ozone Hole being caused by CFCs? ... I thought not.
Nevertheless their efforts have had a huge positive effect on the global environment.
No, but they didn't have the personal notoriety of this girl. Anita Roddick. Tonya Harding. Lady Gaga. Peewee Herman. They are celebrities that become very famous for a time, then they're forgotten and dusted down when we look back on their era. That's Greta Thornberg. I'm sure she will be there as a talking head, chuckling at her younger self.
Tonya Harding was an ice skater! How many ice skaters have been serious politicians?
You are just considering the Greta Thunberg as a celebrity (your word not mine), rather than the message being communicated by her.
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
She is the second coming of Christ?
No but she gets it. It’s not about green jobs or growth, it’s about undoing damage already done to our planet. I’m as big a hypocrite about this as most, I drive a diesel car for example, but we need to listen to this.
Spot on. With sensible scheduling Japan wouldn’t have many long haul flights...
The rugby blazers either want to expand rugby, or they don't (and the sport will wither)
Bill Beaumont and Co have - so far - done a triumphant job in Japan, alongside the hosts. Now it is up to the rest of rugby to take it further. This is a singular opportunity.
The issue is the clubs. They are already spitting blood about handing their players over for extended periods and adding another month to the 6 Nations would see them taking legal action to prevent it. Look at how Lions tours have been curtailed thanks to them.
Get rid of the Lions tours, Or make them once-a-decade specials. They are anachronistic. British and Irish lions? What's that about anyway?!
OR just relegate Italy and put Japan in, as anabozina says (after a couple of years of promotion/relegation). There has to be a penalty for consistently coming LAST.
Lions tours are rugby's pinnacle. Get rid of them and you lose something very, very special. A second division sounds like a much better idea. It will raise standards more widely, too.
Lions tour WERE rugby's pinnacle.
How many players now would rather be on a winning Lions tour rather than be World Cup winners ?
How many players from the home nations are more likely to be on a winning Lions tour than be World Cup winners? But, yes, the World Cup is clearly more important, I get that. And rugby would continue without Lions tours, of course. But it will have lost something very special.
Its the change and expand versus tradition discussion.
I remember when the Home Championship was a big thing in football.
What is it about Greta that upsets the middle aged white snowflakes?
I have no idea. Personally I'm barely aware of her. Just a fun and interesting person having their time in the spotlight who we'll recall in nostalgia TV programmes about their era, like Cynthia Payne, Mary Whitehouse, Basil Brush etc..
Do you remember the pople who made a big thing of the Antarctic Ozone Hole being caused by CFCs? ... I thought not.
Nevertheless their efforts have had a huge positive effect on the global environment.
No, but they didn't have the personal notoriety of this girl. Anita Roddick. Tonya Harding. Lady Gaga. Peewee Herman. They are celebrities that become very famous for a time, then they're forgotten and dusted down when we look back on their era. That's Greta Thornberg. I'm sure she will be there as a talking head, chuckling at her younger self.
Lady Gaga won an Oscar, and was nominated for another, earlier this year.
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
I greatly value progress and individual liberty. I'm certain feudal societies were greener and more sustainable than ours but I wouldn't want to live in them.
I agree with Foxy that climate change may make life much worse for the poorest in society but the message of austerity Greta and her ilk preach is not one that resonates with the vast majority of the public who already lead austere lives. I think this is why she is so polarising.
That article is interesting in that it states that green philosophy may not be compatible with liberalism and progress, which I suppose are the totemic beliefs of our society. Are we prepared to give them up in the name of the environment? I would guess not.
No we will compromise and hedge and let it slide. But will it be enough?
I have no idea. Personally I'm barely aware of her. Just a fun and interesting person having their time in the spotlight who we'll recall in nostalgia TV programmes about their era, like Cynthia Payne, Mary Whitehouse, Basil Brush etc..
This is one of the oddest comments I've seen on here for quite some time.
Mr. Roger, I think my meaning's pretty clear in a thread about whether Hoyle might become the next Speaker.
Just a joke (almost)
(I was going to say people have been hung for saying that)
hanged....
Yes but you went to university...
...and a proppa Comprehensive
Was it a former Sec Mod.?
Yep. Was one of the first Comps in the country.
(Although I only went there because we'd moved house. Before that I was at a Technical Grammar.)
Technical Grammar - is that the sort of school where they teach you to repair split infinitives?
I've never known! As it was a mining area, I think it was for pit managers.....
At my grammar school they had four classes in each year. These were streamed on abililty into : 4A, 4S, 4T, and 4X with a focus on Arts, Science, Technology and... well, just scraping through in the case of X.
Whoever thought that those with the highest ability were suited to the arts and those with lesser ability could do science and technology has a lot to answer for. I suspect it was (and still is?) symptomatic of a wider bias across the country that explains a lot about why our industry has been outperformed by most other developed countries.
I think the old two cultures thing has been resolved now. Science used to be despised and the arts lionised. But now we despise both of them.
(Incidentally cultural historians have over 30 different names for C.P.Snow.)
Well I will return the muted compliment - there is also truth in what you post there.
A 'proven' scientific theory is indeed just that. A theory. It stands unless and until it is superseded by a better one.
But the rational approach (especially for the layman) in advance of this happening is to accept it.
OK, so this is climate science and is subject to more inherent uncertainty than certain other branches, but still the consensus on the central thesis is great enough for it to qualify as something that cannot rationally be denied.
And this holds true even if it turns out to be nonsense. If in 20 years that better theory comes along, nevertheless it was irrational not to accept this one now.
Those folk who dislike her tend to be of a certain ilk...white, older men who like Brexit and Trump. If she winds up those miserable, sour faced sonsofbitches she is certainly doing something right....
Exactly. She annoys exactly the type of right wing shit who richly deserves such agitation so she should be applauded for that regardless of the worthiness of her cause.
Many males run on "status". Being older adds status as does wealth. On that sort of social scale a young female is viewed as about as low as you can go.
People who perceive themselves as being well up the status hierarchy cannot have someone at the bottom of the hierarchy successfully challenge them or else they lose their status and authority.
So of course they put her down. What else can they do? Thankfully not all blokes operate that way
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
She is the second coming of Christ?
No but she gets it. It’s not about green jobs or growth, it’s about undoing damage already done to our planet. I’m as big a hypocrite about this as most, I drive a diesel car for example, but we need to listen to this.
Listening is easy and telling people that 'we need to listen to this' is even easier.
Doing is harder.
You can start with no more flights for you and your family and no car journeys beyond 50 miles
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
Perhaps long distance flights should become as socially unacceptable as drink driving.
Which would rather end the 'Japan in the Six Nations' discussion.
We're a long way from the Ashes tours being seen in the same light as the South Africa rebel tour due to climate concerns but perhaps the way we're heading.
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
She is the second coming of Christ?
No but she gets it. It’s not about green jobs or growth, it’s about undoing damage already done to our planet. I’m as big a hypocrite about this as most, I drive a diesel car for example, but we need to listen to this.
Listening is easy and telling people that 'we need to listen to this' is even easier.
Doing is harder.
You can start with no more flights for you and your family and no car journeys beyond 50 miles
Spot on. With sensible scheduling Japan wouldn’t have many long haul flights...
The rugby blazers either want to expand rugby, or they don't (and the sport will wither)
Bill Beaumont and Co have - so far - done a triumphant job in Japan, alongside the hosts. Now it is up to the rest of rugby to take it further. This is a singular opportunity.
The issue is the clubs. They are already spitting blood about handing their players over for extended periods and adding another month to the 6 Nations would see them taking legal action to prevent it. Look at how Lions tours have been curtailed thanks to them.
Get rid of the Lions tours, Or make them once-a-decade specials. They are anachronistic. British and Irish lions? What's that about anyway?!
OR just relegate Italy and put Japan in, as anabozina says (after a couple of years of promotion/relegation). There has to be a penalty for consistently coming LAST.
Lions tours are rugby's pinnacle. Get rid of them and you lose something very, very special. A second division sounds like a much better idea. It will raise standards more widely, too.
Lions tour WERE rugby's pinnacle.
How many players now would rather be on a winning Lions tour rather than be World Cup winners ?
Of course. When the Rugby World Cup started, it was inevitable - if it was a success, which it is - that it would become the acme of the game. It generates by far the most revenue, the most spectators, the most worldwide interest.
The so-far triumphant expansion into Asia has only compounded that.
Being in a winning Lions team is great fun, but a World Cup victory is far more important. Ask Johnny Wilkinson.
Indeed, I also have a distant connection to Johnny Wilkinson, he is the cousin of my aunt's ex husband
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
The question is where and how she is getting that information and formulating that message. She is not a climate scientist, nor does she have personal experience of change over decades. I very much doubt she reads detailed scientific papers or if shes does that she has the technical ability to be able to draw conclusions that nobody else can or has. Therefore her information and beliefs are fed from somewhere before being set in order in her own mind. That source will give you the thrust of from whence Gretas worldview comes originally. As for the Greta effect, theres an element of 'what an amazingly talented child' but mainly she personifies a deep sense of guilt older generations feel, a nagging sense of 'what if we really have buggered the planet?' Which makes people very defensive of her on one hand and aggressive on the other because of that guilt.
The solutions are there if we accept there is an emergency and forget about making it 'pay' economically, they could happen right now, but this is about state control of everything and everyone, centralisation of power and influence, globalised profiteering at the expense of liberty. Like everything else, the solutions are either counter intuitive to 'new deals', embedded in technology hidden by patent abuse and state secrecy and difficult to arrange in the system as it is.
She works because she is free from the 'reality' of the political-economic system and is thus, for the establishment, a clear and present danger.
Ireland need a converted try to tie. 7 minutes to do it.....
I can see a scenario in this group where scotland, if they lose to Japan and Samoa, fail to qualify automatically for the next world cup.
Theoretically this is a good result for Scotland as it opens up the possibility of avoiding NZ in the next round. But more likely it consigns them to 3rd or 4th.
The problem with Scotland finishing 4th is fying)
That's easy - you just replace Scotland with Georgia in the Six Nations, if they finish above 4th; otherwise, just revert to a 5 Nations.
I did wonder if there should be a promotion/relegation playoff for the final spot of the 6-nations
Of course there should be. The closed shop Tbilisi.
regardless of whether they change entry to the 6 nations, they should definately play some (more) matches against the next tier nations
.
Should have been done long time ago
That Do it! Banzai!
Well said. They should rebrand the European Championship as the Northern Championship and let Japan enter, alongside nearer their ability. Such as Romania.
Japan is in Asia and should join Australia, Argentina, New Zealand and South Africa in the SH championship, the 6 nations is a European championship and already big enough
Well that’s one option but clearly you didn’t read my post properly as under my suggestion the 6N would remain as six nations...
By dumping Italy who should stay permanently in the 6 nations as a European nation
Why? Italy are no good. They've had decades of opportunity, but gone backwards. They've never beaten England, ever, and don't look like doing so. And the game there is kinda stuck.
Rome is a lovely place to go to see a game, but so is Tokyo. And the food is even better. And Japan will give the rest of the tournament a proper new element, and maybe a new winner.
If Japan is admitted the Six nations really just becomes a mini world cup and you may as well admit Argentina, South Africa and New Zealand and Australia and scrap the southern hemisphere Rugby Championship too
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
Perhaps long distance flights should become as socially unacceptable as drink driving.
Which would rather end the 'Japan in the Six Nations' discussion.
We're a long way from the Ashes tours being seen in the same light as the South Africa rebel tour due to climate concerns but perhaps the way we're heading.
Nothing to stop them going by ship - as late as 1961 that's what happened:
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
The question is where and how she is getting that information and formulating that message. She is not a climate scientist, nor does she have personal experience of change over decades. I very much doubt she reads detailed scientific papers or if shes does that she has the technical ability to be able to draw conclusions that nobody else can or has. Therefore her information and beliefs are fed from somewhere before being set in order in her own mind. That source will give you the thrust of from whence Gretas worldview comes originally. As for the Greta effect, theres an element of 'what an amazingly talented child' but mainly she personifies a deep sense of guilt older generations feel, a nagging sense of 'what if we really have buggered the planet?' Which makes people very defensive of her on one hand and aggressive on the other because of that guilt.
The solutions are there if we accept there is an emergency and forget about making it 'pay' economically, they could happen right now, but this is about state control of everything and everyone, centralisation of power and influence, globalised profiteering at the expense of liberty. Like everything else, the solutions are either counter intuitive to 'new deals', embedded in technology hidden by patent abuse and state secrecy and difficult to arrange in the system as it is.
She works because she is free from the 'reality' of the political-economic system and is thus, for the establishment, a clear and present danger.
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
The point that we have grown up with an expectation of progress on all fronts is a very strong one. Everything we were taught at school was presented that way, from science, medicine, humanities to history. On politics we have lived through an age where things have mostly got better, hugely compared to our parents’ time, at least until recently. We haven’t lived through worsening times.
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
She is the second coming of Christ?
No but she gets it. It’s not about green jobs or growth, it’s about undoing damage already done to our planet. I’m as big a hypocrite about this as most, I drive a diesel car for example, but we need to listen to this.
Listening is easy and telling people that 'we need to listen to this' is even easier.
Doing is harder.
You can start with no more flights for you and your family and no car journeys beyond 50 miles
Hmm 60 miles to my work....
Dundee to Edinburgh ?
Could you get a park and ride from the Forth Bridge ?
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
The question is where and how she is getting that information and formulating that message. She is not a climate scientist, nor does she have personal experience of change over decades. I very much doubt she reads detailed scientific papers or if shes does that she has the technical ability to be able to draw conclusions that nobody else can or has. Therefore her information and beliefs are fed from somewhere before being set in order in her own mind. That source will give you the thrust of from whence Gretas worldview comes originally. As for the Greta effect, theres an element of 'what an amazingly talented child' but mainly she personifies a deep sense of guilt older generations feel, a nagging sense of 'what if we really have buggered the planet?' Which makes people very defensive of her on one hand and aggressive on the other because of that guilt.
The solutions are there if we accept there is an emergency and forget about making it 'pay' economically, they could happen right now, but this is about state control of everything and everyone, centralisation of power and influence, globalised profiteering at the expense of liberty. Like everything else, the solutions are either counter intuitive to 'new deals', embedded in technology hidden by patent abuse and state secrecy and difficult to arrange in the system as it is.
She works because she is free from the 'reality' of the political-economic system and is thus, for the establishment, a clear and present danger.
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
The question is where and how she is getting that information and formulating that message. She is not a climate scientist, nor does she have personal experience of change over decades. I very much doubt she reads detailed scientific papers or if shes does that she has the technical ability to be able to draw conclusions that nobody else can or has. Therefore her information and beliefs are fed from somewhere before being set in order in her own mind. That source will give you the thrust of from whence Gretas worldview comes originally. As for the Greta effect, theres an element of 'what an amazingly talented child' but mainly she personifies a deep sense of guilt older generations feel, a nagging sense of 'what if we really have buggered the planet?' Which makes people very defensive of her on one hand and aggressive on the other because of that guilt.
The solutions are there if we accept there is an emergency and forget about making it 'pay' economically, they could happen right now, but this is about state control of everything and everyone, centralisation of power and influence, globalised profiteering at the expense of liberty. Like everything else, the solutions are either counter intuitive to 'new deals', embedded in technology hidden by patent abuse and state secrecy and difficult to arrange in the system as it is....
The solutions do involve the acceptance that it is an emergency, but they do not involve state control of everything - and since the problem is global one that would in any event be unrealistic. They do involved the state putting its thumb very heavily in the scales, but the cost involved is perhaps 5% of global GDP for the next two to three decades. By comparison, at the end of the WWII, the US was spending around 40% of GDP on the war effort.
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
The question is where and how she is getting that information and formulating that message. She is not a climate scientist, nor does she have personal experience of change over decades. I very much doubt she reads detailed scientific papers or if shes does that she has the technical ability to be able to draw conclusions that nobody else can or has. Therefore her information and beliefs are fed from somewhere before being set in order in her own mind. That source will give you the thrust of from whence Gretas worldview comes originally. As for the Greta effect, theres an element of 'what an amazingly talented child' but mainly she personifies a deep sense of guilt older generations feel, a nagging sense of 'what if we really have buggered the planet?' Which makes people very defensive of her on one hand and aggressive on the other because of that guilt.
The solutions are there if we accept there is an emergency and forget about making it 'pay' economically, they could happen right now, but this is about state control of everything and everyone, centralisation of power and influence, globalised profiteering at the expense of liberty. Like everything else, the solutions are either counter intuitive to 'new deals', embedded in technology hidden by patent abuse and state secrecy and difficult to arrange in the system as it is....
The solutions do involve the acceptance that it is an emergency, but they do not involve state control of everything - and since the problem is global one that would in any event be unrealistic. They do involved the state putting its thumb very heavily in the scales, but the cost involved is perhaps 5% of global GDP for the next two to three decades. By comparison, at the end of the WWII, the US was spending around 40% of GDP on the war effort.
That's the solution proposed within the current political economic system, I.e. green new deals and the rest of the nonsense. The solution is breaking free of it, working out who and what we are as humans and custodians of the planet, embracing new technology and forcing disclosure of the hidden technology that big energy and government suppress and throwing everything into fusion research. Get industry off the planet over the medium term and into the inert environments of asteroids and moons. The vision for humanity as is is moronic, mundane and unworthy of us
This is how people in my football team are seeing it
The honest answer to that question is "all of them". It's just that the annoying Greenie has a newscamera pointed at her.
There are many criticisms that can be made of Greenism as a political ideology and I make many of them. But most of the insults levelled at her recently are ad hominem
What is with using foreign languages so we do not understand your point
I know. It's so rechereche when the soi-disant cognoscenti adumberate ad nauseam. I shall eviscerate my Weltanschauung.
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
The question is where and how she is getting that information and formulating that message. She is not a climate scientist, nor does she have personal experience of change over decades. I very much doubt she reads detailed scientific papers or if shes does that she has the technical ability to be able to draw conclusions that nobody else can or has. Therefore her information and beliefs are fed from somewhere before being set in order in her own mind. That source will give you the thrust of from whence Gretas worldview comes originally. As for the Greta effect, theres an element of 'what an amazingly talented child' but mainly she personifies a deep sense of guilt older generations feel, a nagging sense of 'what if we really have buggered the planet?' Which makes people very defensive of her on one hand and aggressive on the other because of that guilt.
The solutions are there if we accept there is an emergency and forget about making it 'pay' economically, they could happen right now, but this is about state control of everything and everyone, centralisation of power and influence, globalised profiteering at the expense of liberty. Like everything else, the solutions are either counter intuitive to 'new deals', embedded in technology hidden by patent abuse and state secrecy and difficult to arrange in the system as it is.
She works because she is free from the 'reality' of the political-economic system and is thus, for the establishment, a clear and present danger.
Read the back story on her speech; there are a lot of scientists working with her.
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
She is the second coming of Christ?
No but she gets it. It’s not about green jobs or growth, it’s about undoing damage already done to our planet. I’m as big a hypocrite about this as most, I drive a diesel car for example, but we need to listen to this.
Listening is easy and telling people that 'we need to listen to this' is even easier.
Doing is harder.
You can start with no more flights for you and your family and no car journeys beyond 50 miles
Hmm 60 miles to my work....
Dundee to Edinburgh ?
Could you get a park and ride from the Forth Bridge ?
Or relocate to Dunfermline ?
A cousin, born and brought up the London Commuter belt, moved to Christchurch, NZ. Found a house he and his wife liked about 20 minutes drive from his new workplace. His new colleagues couldn't understand how he coped with such a long commute.
This is how people in my football team are seeing it
The honest answer to that question is "all of them". It's just that the annoying Greenie has a newscamera pointed at her.
There are many criticisms that can be made of Greenism as a political ideology and I make many of them. But most of the insults levelled at her recently are ad hominem
What is with using foreign languages so we do not understand your point
I know. It's so rechereche when the soi-disant cognoscenti adumberate ad nauseam. I shall eviscerate my Weltanschauung.
When you've done that, and cooked it, does it go well with a nice Rioja?
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
She is the second coming of Christ?
No but she gets it. It’s not about green jobs or growth, it’s about undoing damage already done to our planet. I’m as big a hypocrite about this as most, I drive a diesel car for example, but we need to listen to this.
Listening is easy and telling people that 'we need to listen to this' is even easier.
Doing is harder.
You can start with no more flights for you and your family and no car journeys beyond 50 miles
Some interesting discussion on world rugby. I'd opt for a two division six nations north and south competition with one up and one down promotion/relegation
North - Div 1 - Scotland, Wales, England, Ireland, France, Italy. Div 2 - USA, Canada, Georgia, Spain, Romania. Russia.
South - Div 1 - New Zealand, Australia, S.Africa, Argentina, Japan*, Samoa. Div 2 - Tonga, Fiji, Uruguay, Namibia, Hong Kong, Brazil.
*Japan in south for pragmatic geographical reasons. Clearly there could also be third tier competitions.
Comments
(Of course sadly for many of us there's another day to get to London
Because if it does its a demographic I don't much contact with.
1. In order to progress to another stage of scientific enquiry it is often necessary to assume that previous stages are true. Otherwise one would forever spend one's career testing the validity of Newton's Laws of Motion, rather than using those Laws of Motion to make further discoveries.
2. At this point of time, and indeed for the last several decades, the best guess on global warming has been that it is happening, human activity is responsible, and it would be to our benefit to do something to avoid too much of it happening in the future. We have to make political and economic judgements on the basis of the best available evidence. There is no perfect, complete state of knowledge that we can ever attain.
So perhaps we ought to take it seriously and do more, more quickly, about it?
The girl is remarkable....and transcends...
Those folk who dislike her tend to be of a certain ilk...white, older men who like Brexit and Trump. If she winds up those miserable, sour faced sonsofbitches she is certainly doing something right....
Trump, for example, is an even better case in point. It's really not objectively possible to conclude that he is fit to hold the office he does. But he sure does piss off the liberals - so go Donald go!
It's all a bit sterile and tacky and reprehensible.
And yet the SH championship still produces the best teams.
I posted a photo and said ‘this is what my football team think of Greta’ or words to that effect, and you decided to imply I need counselling, call me ‘ a poor dear’ etc etc. I think you should take a deep breath and read things properly before you slip into Student Grant mode and call people things you wouldn’t dare say to their face. I like the fact that I knock about with people who have completely different way of looking at things from the cosseted world of PB, it’s always fun to note the contrasting opinions and imagine how the two groups would act if they met
Spot on. With sensible scheduling Japan wouldn’t have many long haul flights...
On my current project the project manager insists on me travelling down to London each week, and I'm considered eccentric by taking the train rather than flying. I've seen massive arguments ensue when a harmless (if dull) conversation about house prices and Brexit has turned to people who find it cheaper to live in France somewhere and commute by plane to London each week.
There is a massive cultural change that would be helpful, as well as technological change. I don't know how else to make that change than by making the issue more prominent - by marching, say - or by introducing some taxes to create a price signal. What else would you suggest?
Bill Beaumont and Co have - so far - done a triumphant job in Japan, alongside the hosts. Now it is up to the rest of rugby to take it further. This is a singular opportunity.
Nevertheless their efforts have had a huge positive effect on the global environment.
By 2017 UK per cap C02 was down by another 20% to 5.7 tonnes. The elec supply is well on the way to being decarbonised.
But unfortunately the E2R tossers cannot see beyond the end of their self-obsesses noses. They are just the latest lot of unthinking vanity protesters.
They do not seem to want to do anything about Ireland still getting a good chunk of its electricity from burning peat (on the way out, but not gone yet afaik). CO2 per cap in Ireland - 8.2 tonnes, despite a booming population up about 20% in 15 years.
My favourite was the one interviewed by Sky protesting in London who eventually admitted that she had commuted in from Holland to protest, that she had an extra house in Holland, and that she commuted in from Holland to London every week for work. There's someone making personal sacrifices.
CO2 emissions per cap in NL - 10.3 tonnes.
Point this out and they don't argue back with reason - they accuse you of gaslighting :-).
If I thought they were triggered by Greta I would say it to their face. What are they going to do? Presumably they can handle criticism like anyone else. But I’m ending this here, you can have the last word. Go ahead. I merely wonder why grown men get so upset by this girl. It really is bizarre.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7513961/Equalities-watchdog-demands-25-current-former-Labour-members-help-anti-Semitism-probe.html
To me, it comes across like that playground thing of "Bothered? Bothered?" when someone clearly is. Or (closely related) the idea that getting an 'A' for effort on your report is some sort of stigma.
All very much a male thing, in other words. Women don't worry about being seen to try very hard at something or to be 'triggered' by things.
So, c'mon, let's all do it. There is no shame in this. Let's all let go and get utterly triggered together.
https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1177578972080721920?s=20
While personally I try to, I am very aware that some of the knock ons of my workplace are quite environmentally destructive. The amount of single use equipment is understandable from the economic and hygiene perspective, but criminal in terms of waste. There is no recycling.
It is hard to deny my Keralan and Filipino staff their annual trip home either, but that sort of long haul travel is intrinsic to migration in the modern world.
There are no easy answers, but reducing fossil fuel usage has to be part of the answer. A lot of reforestation would help too.
Rome is a lovely place to go to see a game, but so is Tokyo. And the food is even better. And Japan will give the rest of the tournament a proper new element, and maybe a new winner.
We really need to get away from the mindset that environmental problems are too daunting for us, and there's no point to our own efforts as they are dwarfed by the failure of others. We need to understand that we are making steady progress, and in the long run it might not even be all that difficult or expensive for our activities to become environmentally sustainable.
Nor should we see this as a party political issue, as Labour, coalition, and even Conservative governments have all played their part in the progress we have made.
(If you don't mind conning your old man, that is.)
OR just relegate Italy and put Japan in, as anabozina says (after a couple of years of promotion/relegation). There has to be a penalty for consistently coming LAST.
For everyone else though, life is about making ends meet. It is about totting up the items in your trolley at tescos before you get to the checkout. It is about making a hundred quid last the whole week, that last week before payday. It is about working a job you probably hate to keep a roof over your head.
So when somebody like Greta Thunberg comes along whining and complaining, most people look at her and laugh. She's never known hardship. She's a child. What did any of us know at sixteen?
And the environmentalists want us to give up the few luxuries we have... they want us to give up the clapped out car we can barely afford, the car that halves the journey to and from the daily drudge of our jobs, gives us an extra hour a day, and is so much better than the bus. They want us to give up the cheap EasyJet flight and the two weeks in the sun that for most people is the only respite from reality they get. They want to tax us more so that we consume less, when really most people barely "consume" at all, beyond absolute subsistence. Most people just want to live, and not be lectured to by people who travel the world in private jets.
The likes of extinction rebellion want us to don hair shirts and flagellate ourselves, taking on all the characteristcs of a doomsday cult, a phony religion, while closing down half of london so they can have a drum circle bongo session when all we really want is to get to work on time so the boss doesn't give us stick.
Meanwhile economies like India and China take leaps and bounds in improving their living standards thanks to the white heat of industry.
Most people understand this intuitively and consider the eco-loons to be just that. Loons.
More cycle lanes, more pedestrianised areas?
I don't think marches do that much good, because so many of the people at the forefront of these campaigns are instinctively off putting to a lot of the target audience. We can see from the reaction to Greta Thurnberg. It seems that most people who champion her are middle class, quite affluent, and reading from the metropolitan liberal handbook, and they take extreme offence on her behalf if anyone takes the piss out of her. But people who aren't in that bracket don't have the time or money to 'waste' thinking about the issue, and don't appreciate being lectured by those who do
My mind keeps coming back to this man as our only hope!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5X01o7SsUU
*EDIT* That was an impression of Trigger from Only Fools and Horses, I'm not implying your real name is Dave
Because to say that Basil Brush was a 'fun and interesting person' really is quite odd.
He was no fun at all.
Praise the End of the Brexit process, anyway. When it has happened.
Strikes me that if that slogan was invented now, David Lammy would be off on one about Nicky Lauda's mother being potentially offended.
People who agitate "right wing shits" just because they are "right wing shits" are usually "shits" (could be left, could be right or centre shits) themselves.
BTW this leads me onto something else that annoys me, which you see all over political discussions, and I have read it at least twice this afternoon on this forum.
Just because a movement, cause, campaign, political opinion has some "shits" supporting them, does not make the movement, cause, campaign or political opinion itself shit.
For most of rugby, now, the pinnacle is the World Cup. Clearly. As we see today.
Of course if your attitude prevails then rugby will fall back to its English colonial roots, and it will never grow beyond its present heartlands. Which would be a damn shame. Japan also play superbly entertaining rugby. Let 'em in!
There are certainly many other issues in the world, as @kyf_100 eloquently describes, but the vast majority of these become even more problematic if we ignore climate change.
How many players now would rather be on a winning Lions tour rather than be World Cup winners ?
Is she wrong/manipulated/ignorant? I increasingly think not. I think we are seriously underestimating how urgent this is.
The so-far triumphant expansion into Asia has only compounded that.
Being in a winning Lions team is great fun, but a World Cup victory is far more important. Ask Johnny Wilkinson.
Which supports my point, I think.
Which would rather end the 'Japan in the Six Nations' discussion.
We'll still do fine at rugby, even if it expands beyond the Anglophonie.
And now I must drive across a sunburned island to an airport. Later.
Once we get far enough in alternative energy production and energy efficiency then oil/coal production becomes no longer profitable and we will start to pull less of the stuff out of the ground. Only then will our global emmisions start to drop. I have no real idea how far away we are from this "non-profitability point" but I fear we still have a long way to go.
Nostalgia of John Dawes and Willie-John and middle aged blokes having a drinking holiday.
What about those people sat of vast fortunes and oil and gas, wouldn’t they put a fight? Buy some politicians to say that climate change isn’t real or something?
I agree with Foxy that climate change may make life much worse for the poorest in society but the message of austerity Greta and her ilk preach is not one that resonates with the vast majority of the public who already lead austere lives. I think this is why she is so polarising.
That article is interesting in that it states that green philosophy may not be compatible with liberalism and progress, which I suppose are the totemic beliefs of our society. Are we prepared to give them up in the name of the environment? I would guess not.
You are just considering the Greta Thunberg as a celebrity (your word not mine), rather than the message being communicated by her.
She is the second coming of Christ?
I remember when the Home Championship was a big thing in football.
But think of all the tax revenue governments would lose
(Incidentally cultural historians have over 30 different names for C.P.Snow.)
Well I will return the muted compliment - there is also truth in what you post there.
A 'proven' scientific theory is indeed just that. A theory. It stands unless and until it is superseded by a better one.
But the rational approach (especially for the layman) in advance of this happening is to accept it.
OK, so this is climate science and is subject to more inherent uncertainty than certain other branches, but still the consensus on the central thesis is great enough for it to qualify as something that cannot rationally be denied.
And this holds true even if it turns out to be nonsense. If in 20 years that better theory comes along, nevertheless it was irrational not to accept this one now.
People who perceive themselves as being well up the status hierarchy cannot have someone at the bottom of the hierarchy successfully challenge them or else they lose their status and authority.
So of course they put her down. What else can they do? Thankfully not all blokes operate that way
Doing is harder.
You can start with no more flights for you and your family and no car journeys beyond 50 miles
As for the Greta effect, theres an element of 'what an amazingly talented child' but mainly she personifies a deep sense of guilt older generations feel, a nagging sense of 'what if we really have buggered the planet?' Which makes people very defensive of her on one hand and aggressive on the other because of that guilt.
The solutions are there if we accept there is an emergency and forget about making it 'pay' economically, they could happen right now, but this is about state control of everything and everyone, centralisation of power and influence, globalised profiteering at the expense of liberty. Like everything else, the solutions are either counter intuitive to 'new deals', embedded in technology hidden by patent abuse and state secrecy and difficult to arrange in the system as it is.
She works because she is free from the 'reality' of the political-economic system and is thus, for the establishment, a clear and present danger.
http://www.pandosnco.co.uk/himalaya.html
Could you get a park and ride from the Forth Bridge ?
Or relocate to Dunfermline ?
They do involved the state putting its thumb very heavily in the scales, but the cost involved is perhaps 5% of global GDP for the next two to three decades.
By comparison, at the end of the WWII, the US was spending around 40% of GDP on the war effort.
The vision for humanity as is is moronic, mundane and unworthy of us
His new colleagues couldn't understand how he coped with such a long commute.
Did I mention the trains...
North -
Div 1 - Scotland, Wales, England, Ireland, France, Italy.
Div 2 - USA, Canada, Georgia, Spain, Romania. Russia.
South -
Div 1 - New Zealand, Australia, S.Africa, Argentina, Japan*, Samoa.
Div 2 - Tonga, Fiji, Uruguay, Namibia, Hong Kong, Brazil.
*Japan in south for pragmatic geographical reasons. Clearly there could also be third tier competitions.