If no election is agreed on Monday, Boris Johnson will continue to prorogue Parliament past October 31, so they cannot kick Boris out whilst Boris fails to agree an extension and we leave with no deal on the 31st of October.
Well that's the plan, I think we're going to see some epic constitutional shenanigans.
"Boris will continue to prorogue Parliament past October 31"
Can the lying disingenuous fat slob actually do this? What are the mechanisms here?
Of course he can do it and it's glaringly obvious, plus he will get plenty of public support for doing so. Labour will have to backtrack on not voting for an election or take Boris to the courts.
Or VONC him and install someone else: see below.
Obviously I'm on Ken Clarke and biased. Nicholas Soames would be rather sweet justice ...
I have just returned from town having met a colleague from years ago and she has always been non political. Not this morning, she is furious with the mps for attempting to stop brexit and wants them gone
Later in Asda I overheard a group discussing brexit and they too were very angry and the target of that anger was Corbyn
Now we have a rebel alliance refusuing the legitimate request to put it to the people until they think no deal is off the table, which of course it is not if Boris wins a GE on the basis of deal or no deal
Also does Gina Millar and John Major think they are winning the ordinary voters over with their elite attititude and pots of money attempts through the High and Supteme Courts decision on proroguing parliament. Most people have no idea about the detail but just see a group of the priviliged colluding with the EU to stop brexit
Boris is a fool but I am beginning to think the public are looking elswhere a the fools resisting brexit by any means possible
Labour is heading for the biggest defeat in its post universal suffrage history, as last night's council by elections and the latest polls show
If no election is agreed on Monday, Boris Johnson will continue to prorogue Parliament past October 31, so they cannot kick Boris out whilst Boris fails to agree an extension and we leave with no deal on the 31st of October.
Well that's the plan, I think we're going to see some epic constitutional shenanigans.
"Boris will continue to prorogue Parliament past October 31"
Can the lying disingenuous fat slob actually do this? What are the mechanisms here?
Of course he can do it and it's glaringly obvious, plus he will get plenty of public support for doing so. Labour will have to backtrack on not voting for an election or take Boris to the courts.
It will be dragged out in the Courts while the EU gives us an indefinite extension then?
The EU extension would count for nothing if not agreed with our PM, and clearly Boris would be PM while parliament is pro rogued. I can't see how the opposition could win that case.
This means resignation. Corbyn in No.10, massively legitimised.
Corbyn in No 10 for 10 seconds purely to extend as Neville Chamberlain 2, Tories then sweep through Labour Leave seats at the subsequent general election with Boris campaigning as Winston Churchill (while rightly telling Tory Remainers vote LD you get Corbyn)
You are such a prat, not even funny anymore. What has happened to you? You used to make some sensible comment. Now it is all war comic references and referring to decent British citizens as "traitors" for not agreeing with your myopic view. I am beginning to think you are actually a bot from Moscow.
Of course he won’t. It would be electoral seppuku. He will abide by the Surrender Act, and wait for the EU to impose a new extension, then he will turn to voters and say, Look, see what they’ve made us do, see how they’ve handed even more power to Brussels.
And it might work.
?
He's saying he won't abide by the Anti-No Deal Act, isn't he?
He can’t do that. It’s now the law. And it specifically provides for this eventuality.
Well, what do you think it means when it says "says he would not seek Brexit delay even if it becomes law"?
He’s bluffing. Also, note how he says HE won’t seek an extension, that’s permissible by law. But the same law says, in that scenario, the EU should offer an extension of its own choosing, which the commons - not Boris - can reject or not
When you wrote "Of course he won't," you meant "Of course he will"?
Good God.
He won’t ask for an extension. He will either resign or let the EU impose an extension. As per the Surrender Act
The fascinating Q is what happens if the EU says, OK, fuck this, your extension is five years. Deal with it once and for all.
Eek.
They will be very silly to do that, as it would anger people even more. If they want the UK to end up revoking they have to keep giving an extension just long enough that it still seems possible, but also that an opposition party can win a GE and then have propose / win a second referendum.
I don't think the EU want to be seen as responsible for Brexit failing, they just want to engineer that it is so incredibly difficult that in the end the British public cave in blaming our crap politicians.
Mr. Thompson. When are you guys that support Brexit going to understand? The EU knows we have a lot more to lose than they. They will lose to some extent, but they will mitigate, and they do not think it is worth compromising the single market, and they are right.
Besides, Boris is telling everyone here there is nothing to fear from no-deal. Therefore by extension there is less to fear for the EU. It is therefore a very limited bargaining chip. Unless he is lying to us, which I am sure Boris wouldn't do now would he?
We have more to lose by agreeing to the backstop than they do to removing the backstop.
That's not the way they see it. Knowing what the other side in a negotiation want is key. And before you say so they do not want to "keep us shackled" to the EU. They want to avoid a hard border in ireland and the possible return to violence and they don't trust the British Government to keep its word. With good reason. See, for example, Home Rule Act 1914, Catholic Emancipation 1801... So there perception is that they have a lot more to lose. Our colonial adventures return to haunt us.
Cummings must have gamed it that an extension would be deadly for Boris. No Deal followed by an election wouldn't be ideal, but an prolonged Brexit must be avoided at any cots, even if Boris is criminally charged.
You’re totally misreading it, perhaps because you’ve forgotten the Surrender Act. If Boris does not seek an Extension, the EU will unilaterally give us one, of a length they will choose
The Act obliges the prime minister to seek an extension, it doesn't permit the EU to impose an extension if the PM doesn't ask for one.
Yes it does. However parliament has the power to reject the offered extension. Clearly parliament won’t reject, as the alternative will be no deal.
You need to read the text. Parliament doesn't have the power to reject the extension if it's for the requested date. And if it's for another date, parliament only gets to decide if the PM wants to delegate the decision to them.
Of course he won’t. It would be electoral seppuku. He will abide by the Surrender Act, and wait for the EU to impose a new extension, then he will turn to voters and say, Look, see what they’ve made us do, see how they’ve handed even more power to Brussels.
And it might work.
The question comes down to will the public be grateful that parliament engineered a way to block no-deal and also blocked an election they don't want, or will they see it as parliament blocking Brexit / GE and in doing some being anti-democratic.
Yes. The ensuing election will turn on that.
Except it won't. People are tired of Brexit. Europe has never interested anyone except the far right headbangers. People care far more about issues close to home: jobs, NHS, unemployment, prices, housing, equality, transport, crime etc.
So the Brexit flame may burn brightly for a few days but it won't last long in a General Election campaign. It's an election for 5 yrs of government and other issues will come to the fore again. Like they always did.
Johnson would not want another Tory to replace him, he'd want Corbyn to take over.
If Corbyn takes over that neutralises the "don't make Corbyn PM" line. If I were Boris I might recommend the Queen calls for Dominic Grieve or similar.
If Johnson resigns, which I believe unlikely, then those MPs who have recently lost the whip will be sure to have it offered back to them.
The Conservatives still, at present, have many more MPs than Labour (289 v 247), so unless there is a formal pact between the parts of the Rebel Alliance there is not the justification for asking for Corbyn over A N Other Tory - unless, of course, Johnson were to advise HMQ otherwise.
Cummings must have gamed it that an extension would be deadly for Boris. No Deal followed by an election wouldn't be ideal, but an prolonged Brexit must be avoided at any cots, even if Boris is criminally charged.
You’re totally misreading it, perhaps because you’ve forgotten the Surrender Act. If Boris does not seek an Extension, the EU will unilaterally give us one, of a length they will choose
The Act obliges the prime minister to seek an extension, it doesn't permit the EU to impose an extension if the PM doesn't ask for one.
Yes it does. However parliament has the power to reject the offered extension. Clearly parliament won’t reject, as the alternative will be no deal.
You need to read the text. Parliament doesn't have the power to reject the extension if it's for the requested date. And if it's for another date, parliament only gets to decide if the PM wants to delegate the decision to them.
That’s small print. My point is good.
I think you will find small print is quite important in law.
Maybe HMQ should have a word in his shell-like, if he carries on saying he will deliberately break the law.
It would be clear grounds for him to be dismissed as prime minister.
In effect he would be daring the Queen to dismiss him. An appalling position to put her in, but what does he care about that in comparison with his own career?
Perhaps she could offer him an indefinite stay in another Royal Palace, the Tower of London, if he breaks the law.
Maybe I am missing something, but I am struggling to see how BoZo going to the country saying "I was forced to make Corbyn PM, so elect me again so I can deal with Brussels" is a winning strategy
I'm looking forward to Boris saying "Corbyn is a threat to national security" shortly after handing him the keys to No. 10.
Johnson would not want another Tory to replace him, he'd want Corbyn to take over.
Could be potentially bad news for the Lib Dems and Brexit party. Boris gets to be a Brexit martyr, and Corbyn gets to look statesman like in No 10 for a bit.
Of course he won’t. It would be electoral seppuku. He will abide by the Surrender Act, and wait for the EU to impose a new extension, then he will turn to voters and say, Look, see what they’ve made us do, see how they’ve handed even more power to Brussels.
And it might work.
?
He's saying he won't abide by the Anti-No Deal Act, isn't he?
He can’t do that. It’s now the law. And it specifically provides for this eventuality.
Well, what do you think it means when it says "says he would not seek Brexit delay even if it becomes law"?
He’s bluffing. Also, note how he says HE won’t seek an extension, that’s permissible by law. But the same law says, in that scenario, the EU should offer an extension of its own choosing, which the commons - not Boris - can reject or not
When you wrote "Of course he won't," you meant "Of course he will"?
Good God.
He won’t ask for an extension. He will either resign or let the EU impose an extension. As per the Surrender Act
The fascinating Q is what happens if the EU says, OK, fuck this, your extension is five years. Deal with it once and for all.
Eek.
You're still getting it completely wrong. The Act obliges him to ask for an extension. It doesn't oblige the EU to offer him one if he doesn't ask. How on earth could it?
Really, the amount of drivel that's posted here - I mean factually incorrect stuff even when the facts are straightforward and well known to most people - is absolutely breathtaking.
This means resignation. Corbyn in No.10, massively legitimised.
Corbyn in No 10 for 10 seconds purely to extend as Neville Chamberlain 2, Tories then sweep through Labour Leave seats at the subsequent general election with Boris campaigning as Winston Churchill (while rightly telling Tory Remainers vote LD you get Corbyn)
What has happened to you?
He's seen his dream shrivel before his eyes. It's in its death throes and the party is dying with it.
However. I would caution that a wounded beast is a dangerous animal.
I have just returned from town having met a colleague from years ago and she has always been non political. Not this morning, she is furious with the mps for attempting to stop brexit and wants them gone
Later in Asda I overheard a group discussing brexit and they too were very angry and the target of that anger was Corbyn
Now we have a rebel alliance refusing the legitimate request to put it to the people until they think no deal is off the table, which of course it is not if Boris wins a GE on the basis of deal or no deal
Also does Gina Millar and John Major think they are winning the ordinary voters over with their elite attitude and pots of money attempts through the High and Supreme Courts decision on proroguing parliament. Most people have no idea about the detail but just see a group of the privileged colluding with the EU to stop brexit
Boris is a fool, but I am beginning to think the public are looking elswhere at the fools resisting brexit by any means possible
I don't think Boris is a fool. I think Boris could be heading for the biggest landslide victory since 1931.
Telling the British public they voted the wrong way 3 years ago is one thing, telling them they voted the wrong way then and you don't trust them to vote again now is . . . incredible!
Cummings must have gamed it that an extension would be deadly for Boris. No Deal followed by an election wouldn't be ideal, but an prolonged Brexit must be avoided at any cots, even if Boris is criminally charged.
You’re totally misreading it, perhaps because you’ve forgotten the Surrender Act. If Boris does not seek an Extension, the EU will unilaterally give us one, of a length they will choose
The Act obliges the prime minister to seek an extension, it doesn't permit the EU to impose an extension if the PM doesn't ask for one.
Yes it does. However parliament has the power to reject the offered extension. Clearly parliament won’t reject, as the alternative will be no deal.
You need to read the text. Parliament doesn't have the power to reject the extension if it's for the requested date. And if it's for another date, parliament only gets to decide if the PM wants to delegate the decision to them.
That’s small print. My point is good.
I don't think Parliament are given any role by the Act unless the PM has gone ahed and asked for the extension and the EU has offered a different date. If he never asks he is in breach of the Act but I don't think the Act has a fallback for that situation where the EU can unilaterally make an offer without having been asked by the PM. So its literally if the PM doesn't ask as required by the law what the hell happens next
No it definitely isnt. Kamski put "It's not revoke - leavers will carry on campaigning to leave". Labour policy is heavily tilted toward 2nd ref and revoke.
But the Leave option will almost certainly be that one. Or so close as makes no difference.
I think Brexit is a massive stupidity, but I really don't think revoke is anything like sensible from where we are now. One way out would be to offer a referendum that clarifies the original result with Hard Brexit v EEA on the ballot paper. Hopefully the sensible compromise of EEA or similar would prevail.
This means resignation. Corbyn in No.10, massively legitimised.
Corbyn in No 10 for 10 seconds purely to extend as Neville Chamberlain 2, Tories then sweep through Labour Leave seats at the subsequent general election with Boris campaigning as Winston Churchill (while rightly telling Tory Remainers vote LD you get Corbyn)
You are such a prat, not even funny anymore. What has happened to you? You used to make some sensible comment. Now it is all war comic references and referring to decent British citizens as "traitors" for not agreeing with your myopic view. I am beginning to think you are actually a bot from Moscow.
Calm down. HYUFD can be strident, but he and Big G might well be right. We could be looking at a seismic shift in public opinion, as anger at parliament grows.
That anger is justified. MPs are spineless narcissists. We all know they want to Remain. But they are too scared to admit it. Well then, grow some fucking hairy bollocks and Revoke, if that’s what you want. Or call a new referendum. Just stop this wretched, self-serving pantomime of ‘delay’.
Johnson would not want another Tory to replace him, he'd want Corbyn to take over.
If Corbyn takes over that neutralises the "don't make Corbyn PM" line. If I were Boris I might recommend the Queen calls for Dominic Grieve or similar.
It would have to be someone who really doesn't want to become PM but will do it very briefly in a national emergency. Wouldn't be Grieve, an ego trip in a suit, who would love to prolong it for as long as possible. Ditto Ken Clarke.
Nah - there's still a decent chance that a majority for no deal is elected at the next general election.
It's one of the reasons that the Rebel Alliance need to come up with a way forward beyond extending Article 50. If they don't bring an end to this limbo then the probability that someone else will rises.
This means resignation. Corbyn in No.10, massively legitimised.
Corbyn in No 10 for 10 seconds purely to extend as Neville Chamberlain 2, Tories then sweep through Labour Leave seats at the subsequent general election with Boris campaigning as Winston Churchill (while rightly telling Tory Remainers vote LD you get Corbyn)
What has happened to you?
He's seen his dream shrivel before his eyes. It's in its death throes and the party is dying with it.
However. I would caution that a wounded beast is a dangerous animal.
The Opposition need now to be very very careful.
Judging by the polls the opposition are even more fucked than Boris!
Of course he won’t. It would be electoral seppuku. He will abide by the Surrender Act, and wait for the EU to impose a new extension, then he will turn to voters and say, Look, see what they’ve made us do, see how they’ve handed even more power to Brussels.
And it might work.
?
He's saying he won't abide by the Anti-No Deal Act, isn't he?
He can’t do that. It’s now the law. And it specifically provides for this eventuality.
Well, what do you think it means when it says "says he would not seek Brexit delay even if it becomes law"?
He’s bluffing. Also, note how he says HE won’t seek an extension, that’s permissible by law. But the same law says, in that scenario, the EU should offer an extension of its own choosing, which the commons - not Boris - can reject or not
When you wrote "Of course he won't," you meant "Of course he will"?
Good God.
He won’t ask for an extension. He will either resign or let the EU impose an extension. As per the Surrender Act
The fascinating Q is what happens if the EU says, OK, fuck this, your extension is five years. Deal with it once and for all.
Eek.
You're still getting it completely wrong. The Act obliges him to ask for an extension. It doesn't oblige the EU to offer him one if he doesn't ask. How on earth could it?
Really, the amount of drivel that's posted here - I mean factually incorrect stuff even when the facts are straightforward and well known to most people - is absolutely breathtaking.
To be fair that's because the 'facts' are open to both interpretation and disobedience. We don't have a written Constitution so, with respect, I think you should cut some slack.
It's not helped by the 'fact' (ho ho) that the Fixed Term Parliament Act is vague on detail and certainly open to interpretation if a VONC succeeds.
Cummings must have gamed it that an extension would be deadly for Boris. No Deal followed by an election wouldn't be ideal, but an prolonged Brexit must be avoided at any cots, even if Boris is criminally charged.
You’re totally misreading it, perhaps because you’ve forgotten the Surrender Act. If Boris does not seek an Extension, the EU will unilaterally give us one, of a length they will choose
The Act obliges the prime minister to seek an extension, it doesn't permit the EU to impose an extension if the PM doesn't ask for one.
Yes it does. However parliament has the power to reject the offered extension. Clearly parliament won’t reject, as the alternative will be no deal.
You need to read the text. Parliament doesn't have the power to reject the extension if it's for the requested date. And if it's for another date, parliament only gets to decide if the PM wants to delegate the decision to them.
That’s small print. My point is good.
I don't think Parliament are given any role by the Act unless the PM has gone ahed and asked for the extension and the EU has offered a different date. If he never asks he is in breach of the Act but I don't think the Act has a fallback for that situation where the EU can unilaterally make an offer without having been asked by the PM. So its literally if the PM doesn't ask as required by the law what the hell happens next
Quite. And even if the EU offers a different date, parliament has no role unless the PM decides to delegate the decision.
Johnson would not want another Tory to replace him, he'd want Corbyn to take over.
If Corbyn takes over that neutralises the "don't make Corbyn PM" line. If I were Boris I might recommend the Queen calls for Dominic Grieve or similar.
It would have to be someone who really doesn't want to become PM but will do it very briefly in a national emergency. Wouldn't be Grieve, an ego trip in a suit, who would love to prolong it for as long as possible. Ditto Ken Clarke.
Boris (as LotO) will no con the new administration at the first opportunity. With the extension secured there would be enough votes for that to pass.
This means resignation. Corbyn in No.10, massively legitimised.
Corbyn in No 10 for 10 seconds purely to extend as Neville Chamberlain 2, Tories then sweep through Labour Leave seats at the subsequent general election with Boris campaigning as Winston Churchill (while rightly telling Tory Remainers vote LD you get Corbyn)
You are such a prat, not even funny anymore. What has happened to you? You used to make some sensible comment. Now it is all war comic references and referring to decent British citizens as "traitors" for not agreeing with your myopic view. I am beginning to think you are actually a bot from Moscow.
Calm down. HYUFD can be strident, but he and Big G might well be right. We could be looking at a seismic shift in public opinion, as anger at parliament grows.
That anger is justified. MPs are spineless narcissists. We all know they want to Remain. But they are too scared to admit it. Well then, grow some fucking hairy bollocks and Revoke, if that’s what you want. Or call a new referendum. Just stop this wretched, self-serving pantomime of ‘delay’.
We. Need. Polls.
Sorry that is not true. I think many remain voting MPs share the view that is similar to mine. We cannot revoke. Most supported the WA. Compromise is needed but not being offered by this idiot PM
Cummings must have gamed it that an extension would be deadly for Boris. No Deal followed by an election wouldn't be ideal, but an prolonged Brexit must be avoided at any cots, even if Boris is criminally charged.
You’re totally misreading it, perhaps because you’ve forgotten the Surrender Act. If Boris does not seek an Extension, the EU will unilaterally give us one, of a length they will choose
The Act obliges the prime minister to seek an extension, it doesn't permit the EU to impose an extension if the PM doesn't ask for one.
Yes it does. However parliament has the power to reject the offered extension. Clearly parliament won’t reject, as the alternative will be no deal.
You need to read the text. Parliament doesn't have the power to reject the extension if it's for the requested date. And if it's for another date, parliament only gets to decide if the PM wants to delegate the decision to them.
That’s small print. My point is good.
I think you will find small print is quite important in law.
Yeah - we solicitors learn that on day 1 in law school. You'd be surprised hom many of us ignore it though *innocent face*
I am really not sure refusing the election is smart politics. We now have a floundering parliament with a zombie government, whose feet are being held to the fire. Sure it’s all very entertaining watching Boris squirm but will the public see it as being in any way productive?
Of course he won’t. It would be electoral seppuku. He will abide by the Surrender Act, and wait for the EU to impose a new extension, then he will turn to voters and say, Look, see what they’ve made us do, see how they’ve handed even more power to Brussels.
And it might work.
?
He's saying he won't abide by the Anti-No Deal Act, isn't he?
He can’t do that. It’s now the law. And it specifically provides for this eventuality.
Well, what do you think it means when it says "says he would not seek Brexit delay even if it becomes law"?
He’s bluffing. Also, note how he says HE won’t seek an extension, that’s permissible by law. But the same law says, in that scenario, the EU should offer an extension of its own choosing, which the commons - not Boris - can reject or not
When you wrote "Of course he won't," you meant "Of course he will"?
Good God.
He won’t ask for an extension. He will either resign or let the EU impose an extension. As per the Surrender Act
The fascinating Q is what happens if the EU says, OK, fuck this, your extension is five years. Deal with it once and for all.
Eek.
You're still getting it completely wrong. The Act obliges him to ask for an extension. It doesn't oblige the EU to offer him one if he doesn't ask. How on earth could it?
Really, the amount of drivel that's posted here - I mean factually incorrect stuff even when the facts are straightforward and well known to most people - is absolutely breathtaking.
To be fair that's because the 'facts' are open to both interpretation and disobedience. We don't have a written Constitution so, with respect, I think you should cut some slack.
It's not helped by the 'fact' (ho ho) that the Fixed Term Parliament Act is vague on detail and certainly open to interpretation if a VONC succeeds.
We're not taking about the constitution or the FTPA - we're just talking about this short straightforward bill.
Johnson would not want another Tory to replace him, he'd want Corbyn to take over.
Could be potentially bad news for the Lib Dems and Brexit party. Boris gets to be a Brexit martyr, and Corbyn gets to look statesman like in No 10 for a bit.
This is why it will have to be someone acceptable to all the 'conventional' Opposition. In other words, one of the 21 independents. Expelling them from the party makes it much easier for the opposition to back one of them as caretaker.
This means resignation. Corbyn in No.10, massively legitimised.
Corbyn in No 10 for 10 seconds purely to extend as Neville Chamberlain 2, Tories then sweep through Labour Leave seats at the subsequent general election with Boris campaigning as Winston Churchill (while rightly telling Tory Remainers vote LD you get Corbyn)
You are such a prat, not even funny anymore. What has happened to you? You used to make some sensible comment. Now it is all war comic references and referring to decent British citizens as "traitors" for not agreeing with your myopic view. I am beginning to think you are actually a bot from Moscow.
Calm down. HYUFD can be strident, but he and Big G might well be right. We could be looking at a seismic shift in public opinion, as anger at parliament grows.
That anger is justified. MPs are spineless narcissists. We all know they want to Remain. But they are too scared to admit it. Well then, grow some fucking hairy bollocks and Revoke, if that’s what you want. Or call a new referendum. Just stop this wretched, self-serving pantomime of ‘delay’.
We. Need. Polls.
Sorry that is not true. I think many remain voting MPs share the view that is similar to mine. We cannot revoke. Most supported the WA. Compromise is needed but not being offered by this idiot PM
This means resignation. Corbyn in No.10, massively legitimised.
Corbyn in No 10 for 10 seconds purely to extend as Neville Chamberlain 2, Tories then sweep through Labour Leave seats at the subsequent general election with Boris campaigning as Winston Churchill (while rightly telling Tory Remainers vote LD you get Corbyn)
You are such a prat, not even funny anymore. What has happened to you? You used to make some sensible comment. Now it is all war comic references and referring to decent British citizens as "traitors" for not agreeing with your myopic view. I am beginning to think you are actually a bot from Moscow.
Calm down. HYUFD can be strident, but he and Big G might well be right. We could be looking at a seismic shift in public opinion, as anger at parliament grows.
That anger is justified. MPs are spineless narcissists. We all know they want to Remain. But they are too scared to admit it. Well then, grow some fucking hairy bollocks and Revoke, if that’s what you want. Or call a new referendum. Just stop this wretched, self-serving pantomime of ‘delay’.
We. Need. Polls.
The truth is that politics has polarised further this week. Each side of this conflict (it is no longer a debate) can point to real problems with the other position.
There is no clear right or wrong, good or bad here any more. We need to accept that.
No it definitely isnt. Kamski put "It's not revoke - leavers will carry on campaigning to leave". Labour policy is heavily tilted toward 2nd ref and revoke.
But the Leave option will almost certainly be that one. Or so close as makes no difference.
I think Brexit is a massive stupidity, but I really don't think revoke is anything like sensible from where we are now. One way out would be to offer a referendum that clarifies the original result with Hard Brexit v EEA on the ballot paper. Hopefully the sensible compromise of EEA or similar would prevail.
That’s an unusually fair post by you.
i will take the backhanded compliment! It has been my view for a while. I think we have trashed our international reputation through this process, and I find that very regrettable, but it means we cannot go back as though nothing has happened. No-deal is another level of disaster though and holds no mandate.
Of course he won’t. It would be electoral seppuku. He will abide by the Surrender Act, and wait for the EU to impose a new extension, then he will turn to voters and say, Look, see what they’ve made us do, see how they’ve handed even more power to Brussels.
And it might work.
The question comes down to will the public be grateful that parliament engineered a way to block no-deal and also blocked an election they don't want, or will they see it as parliament blocking Brexit / GE and in doing some being anti-democratic.
Yes. The ensuing election will turn on that.
Except it won't. People are tired of Brexit. Europe has never interested anyone except the far right headbangers. People care far more about issues close to home: jobs, NHS, unemployment, prices, housing, equality, transport, crime etc.
So the Brexit flame may burn brightly for a few days but it won't last long in a General Election campaign. It's an election for 5 yrs of government and other issues will come to the fore again. Like they always did.
One aspect that will make the next general election campaign different is Johnson. He is like Trump in that he manages to dominate the news cycle. We have yet to see whether he is like Trump, in that gaffes and scandals are electorally harmless to him, but this means that there is not the potential for public debate on other issues. It will be about [Boris] Johnson.
I don't know what the public's verdict will be, but it's possible that this could be a factor in preventing opposition to the Tories from coalescing effectively - as it will also emphasise the character flaws of Jeremy Corbyn.
Alastair explains this better than i can but if Parliament is prorogued until 14th October and then needs to re-convene and vote through an early GE that takes a minimum of 5 weeks then it has a very narrow window to successfully land at the end of November.
It’s really a bet on proroguation being cancelled or curtailed. VoNC shenanigans or even a new bill to terminate the session notwithstanding the FTPA wouldn’t make it any faster.
Cummings must have gamed it that an extension would be deadly for Boris. No Deal followed by an election wouldn't be ideal, but an prolonged Brexit must be avoided at any cots, even if Boris is criminally charged.
You’re totally misreading it, perhaps because you’ve forgotten the Surrender Act. If Boris does not seek an Extension, the EU will unilaterally give us one, of a length they will choose
The Act obliges the prime minister to seek an extension, it doesn't permit the EU to impose an extension if the PM doesn't ask for one.
Yes it does. However parliament has the power to reject the offered extension. Clearly parliament won’t reject, as the alternative will be no deal.
only gets to decide if the PM wants to delegate the decision to them.
That’s small print. My point is good.
Iked by the PM. So its literally if the PM doesn't ask as required by the law what the hell happens next
Quite. And even if the EU offers a different date, parliament has no role unless the PM decides to delegate the decision.
You’re both wrong. I think! Here’s the law:
‘If by the end of 19 October the House of Commons has done neither of these things, the Prime Minister must then have sought from the European Council an extension of Article 50 for a further four months – until 31 January 2020.
If at any time after 19 October a withdrawal agreement is approved by the Commons, or the Commons decides the UK should leave without a deal, the Prime Minister can withdraw or modify his Article 50 extension request.
What happens if the European Council offers an extension? If the European Council offers a further extension until 31 January 2020, subsection 3(1) of this Bill compels the Prime Minister to inform the European Council that the UK agrees to the extension. This compulsion was not explicit in the Cooper-Letwin Bill back in April.
If the European Council offers a further extension, but to a date other than 31 January 2020, under subsections 3(2-3) the Prime Minister has two choices. Either he can:
(a) agree to that extension, or
(b) ask the House of Commons (within two calendar days) whether it wishes to approve that extension.
If the House of Commons “decides not to pass” a specifically-worded motion approving the extension, the Prime Minister then has a free choice whether or not to agree to the extension under subsection 3(4).’
Johnson would not want another Tory to replace him, he'd want Corbyn to take over.
If Corbyn takes over that neutralises the "don't make Corbyn PM" line. If I were Boris I might recommend the Queen calls for Dominic Grieve or similar.
No it doesn't the Tories would not vote for him, the LDs and SNP and Labour would purely to extend, then VONC him again.
Alastair explains this better than i can but if Parliament is prorogued until 14th October and then needs to re-convene and vote through an early GE that takes a minimum of 5 weeks then it has a very narrow window to successfully land at the end of November.
It’s really a bet on proroguation being cancelled or curtailed. VoNC shenanigans or even a new bill to terminate the session notwithstanding the FTPA wouldn’t make it any faster.
It is a real shame a 5 November election is out of the question.
I think Labour Brexit policy is nearly coherent but it needs a tweak. Which is to be neutral on the outcome of the referendum. The policy then becomes:
In 2016 half the country voted to Remain; half the country to Leave. Three years later we're stuck and it's still half and half. A Labour government will therefore present the best Leave option along with the Remain option and let the people make the final decision. The Labour government will then happily implement the choice made in that vote, allowing us to move onto our main policies of a fairer society etc. The best Leave option, as presented, will be the one that causes the least economic disruption while meeting our obligations to Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK.
Five sentences instead of a soundbite. But when the soundbites are "Surrender bill" and "Die in the ditch", sensible people might be more comfortable with the Labour approach.
Yes, perfect. Send it in. Would not be surprised to see that adopted. It is, pretty much, the policy.
I have just returned from town having met a colleague from years ago and she has always been non political. Not this morning, she is furious with the mps for attempting to stop brexit and wants them gone
Later in Asda I overheard a group discussing brexit and they too were very angry and the target of that anger was Corbyn
Now we have a rebel alliance refusing the legitimate request to put it to the people until they think no deal is off the table, which of course it is not if Boris wins a GE on the basis of deal or no deal
Also does Gina Millar and John Major think they are winning the ordinary voters over with their elite attitude and pots of money attempts through the High and Supreme Courts decision on proroguing parliament. Most people have no idea about the detail but just see a group of the privileged colluding with the EU to stop brexit
Boris is a fool, but I am beginning to think the public are looking elswhere at the fools resisting brexit by any means possible
Parliament/Westminster is playing a very, very dangerous game and I'm unsure what is is they think they are going to achieve - if they think the electorate will blame Boris for their game playing they are deluded (but then Remainers never have understood Leavers and have never made any attempt to do so - that's been half the problem)
Richard Tice on QT was very clear where the blame would lie if we don't leave on 31st October and it wasn't with Boris who I noted he was very supportative of.
Sooner or later cowardly Corbyn will have to stop cowering from behind the sofa and actually face the voters and when he does I suspect the voters verdict will be merciless.
This means resignation. Corbyn in No.10, massively legitimised.
Corbyn in No 10 for 10 seconds purely to extend as Neville Chamberlain 2, Tories then sweep through Labour Leave seats at the subsequent general election with Boris campaigning as Winston Churchill (while rightly telling Tory Remainers vote LD you get Corbyn)
You are such a prat, not even funny anymore. What has happened to you? You used to make some sensible comment. Now it is all war comic references and referring to decent British citizens as "traitors" for not agreeing with your myopic view. I am beginning to think you are actually a bot from Moscow.
Calm down. HYUFD can be strident, but he and Big G might well be right. We could be looking at a seismic shift in public opinion, as anger at parliament grows.
That anger is justified. MPs are spineless narcissists. We all know they want to Remain. But they are too scared to admit it. Well then, grow some fucking hairy bollocks and Revoke, if that’s what you want. Or call a new referendum. Just stop this wretched, self-serving pantomime of ‘delay’.
We. Need. Polls.
Sorry that is not true. I think many remain voting MPs share the view that is similar to mine. We cannot revoke. Most supported the WA. Compromise is needed but not being offered by this idiot PM
PS HYUFD completely destroyed any shred of cred he had when he started using the word "traitor". I have many friends and family who are remain sympathetic and have served their country in the armed forces. What the fuck has this idiot done for his country I would like to know?
This means resignation. Corbyn in No.10, massively legitimised.
Corbyn in No 10 for 10 seconds purely to extend as Neville Chamberlain 2, Tories then sweep through Labour Leave seats at the subsequent general election with Boris campaigning as Winston Churchill (while rightly telling Tory Remainers vote LD you get Corbyn)
You are such a prat, not even funny anymore. What has happened to you? You used to make some sensible comment. Now it is all war comic references and referring to decent British citizens as "traitors" for not agreeing with your myopic view. I am beginning to think you are actually a bot from Moscow.
Calm down. HYUFD can be strident, but he and Big G might well be right. We could be looking at a seismic shift in public opinion, as anger at parliament grows.
That anger is justified. MPs are spineless narcissists. We all know they want to Remain. But they are too scared to admit it. Well then, grow some fucking hairy bollocks and Revoke, if that’s what you want. Or call a new referendum. Just stop this wretched, self-serving pantomime of ‘delay’.
We. Need. Polls.
Sorry that is not true. I think many remain voting MPs share the view that is similar to mine. We cannot revoke. Most supported the WA. Compromise is needed but not being offered by this idiot PM
PS HYUFD completely destroyed any shred of cred he had when he started using the word "traitor". I have many friends and family who are remain sympathetic and have served their country in the armed forces. What the fuck has this idiot done for his country I would like to know?
chill out. Far worse stuff said on this forum than traitor.
This means resignation. Corbyn in No.10, massively legitimised.
Corbyn in No 10 for 10 seconds purely to extend as Neville Chamberlain 2, Tories then sweep through Labour Leave seats at the subsequent general election with Boris campaigning as Winston Churchill (while rightly telling Tory Remainers vote LD you get Corbyn)
You are such a prat, not even funny anymore. What has happened to you? You used to make some sensible comment. Now it is all war comic references and referring to decent British citizens as "traitors" for not agreeing with your myopic view. I am beginning to think you are actually a bot from Moscow.
Calm down. HYUFD can be strident, but he and Big G might well be right. We could be looking at a seismic shift in public opinion, as anger at parliament grows.
That anger is justified. MPs are spineless narcissists. We all know they want to Remain. But they are too scared to admit it. Well then, grow some fucking hairy bollocks and Revoke, if that’s what you want. Or call a new referendum. Just stop this wretched, self-serving pantomime of ‘delay’.
We. Need. Polls.
The truth is that politics has polarised further this week. Each side of this conflict (it is no longer a debate) can point to real problems with the other position.
There is no clear right or wrong, good or bad here any more. We need to accept that.
Alastair explains this better than i can but if Parliament is prorogued until 14th October and then needs to re-convene and vote through an early GE that takes a minimum of 5 weeks then it has a very narrow window to successfully land at the end of November.
It’s really a bet on proroguation being cancelled or curtailed. VoNC shenanigans or even a new bill to terminate the session notwithstanding the FTPA wouldn’t make it any faster.
We know that the opposition parties are opposed to a pre-Halloween election, I wonder whether they want an election soon thereafter, or in March, or seven weeks after the Tories have lost their poll lead...?
This means resignation. Corbyn in No.10, massively legitimised.
Corbyn in No 10 for 10 seconds purely to extend as Neville Chamberlain 2, Tories then sweep through Labour Leave seats at the subsequent general election with Boris campaigning as Winston Churchill (while rightly telling Tory Remainers vote LD you get Corbyn)
You are such a prat, not even funny anymore. What has happened to you? You used to make some sensible comment. Now it is all war comic references and referring to decent British citizens as "traitors" for not agreeing with your myopic view. I am beginning to think you are actually a bot from Moscow.
Calm down. HYUFD can be strident, but he and Big G might well be right. We could be looking at a seismic shift in public opinion, as anger at parliament grows.
That anger is justified. MPs are spineless narcissists. We all know they want to Remain. But they are too scared to admit it. Well then, grow some fucking hairy bollocks and Revoke, if that’s what you want. Or call a new referendum. Just stop this wretched, self-serving pantomime of ‘delay’.
We. Need. Polls.
Sorry that is not true. I think many remain voting MPs share the view that is similar to mine. We cannot revoke. Most supported the WA. Compromise is needed but not being offered by this idiot PM
PS HYUFD completely destroyed any shred of cred he had when he started using the word "traitor". I have many friends and family who are remain sympathetic and have served their country in the armed forces. What the fuck has this idiot done for his country I would like to know?
I never said traitors to country, I said traitors to democracy, which they undoubtedly are having refused to respect the winning Leave vote despite voting to have the referendum and invoke Article 50 and most of the country feels the same
‘If by the end of 19 October the House of Commons has done neither of these things, the Prime Minister must then have sought from the European Council an extension of Article 50 for a further four months – until 31 January 2020.
If at any time after 19 October a withdrawal agreement is approved by the Commons, or the Commons decides the UK should leave without a deal, the Prime Minister can withdraw or modify his Article 50 extension request.
What happens if the European Council offers an extension? If the European Council offers a further extension until 31 January 2020, subsection 3(1) of this Bill compels the Prime Minister to inform the European Council that the UK agrees to the extension. This compulsion was not explicit in the Cooper-Letwin Bill back in April.
If the European Council offers a further extension, but to a date other than 31 January 2020, under subsections 3(2-3) the Prime Minister has two choices. Either he can:
(a) agree to that extension, or
(b) ask the House of Commons (within two calendar days) whether it wishes to approve that extension.
If the House of Commons “decides not to pass” a specifically-worded motion approving the extension, the Prime Minister then has a free choice whether or not to agree to the extension under subsection 3(4).’
I have just returned from town having met a colleague from years ago and she has always been non political. Not this morning, she is furious with the mps for attempting to stop brexit and wants them gone
Later in Asda I overheard a group discussing brexit and they too were very angry and the target of that anger was Corbyn
Now we have a rebel alliance refusing the legitimate request to put it to the people until they think no deal is off the table, which of course it is not if Boris wins a GE on the basis of deal or no deal
Also does Gina Millar and John Major think they are winning the ordinary voters over with their elite attitude and pots of money attempts through the High and Supreme Courts decision on proroguing parliament. Most people have no idea about the detail but just see a group of the privileged colluding with the EU to stop brexit
Boris is a fool, but I am beginning to think the public are looking elswhere at the fools resisting brexit by any means possible
I don't think Boris is a fool. I think Boris could be heading for the biggest landslide victory since 1931.
Telling the British public they voted the wrong way 3 years ago is one thing, telling them they voted the wrong way then and you don't trust them to vote again now is . . . incredible!
That’s not the plan, at least not for the opposition parties. It’s to fuck the Conservatives.
If the Brexit vote splits between TBXP and the Tories then it does no good whatsoever in a GE.
We could have another referendum, but every option would have to be on the ballot paper, and each one would have to be eliminated one by one, either by using a preferential voting system, or having multiple voting days. What isn't acceptable is having another referendum with just two choices.
Johnson would not want another Tory to replace him, he'd want Corbyn to take over.
If Corbyn takes over that neutralises the "don't make Corbyn PM" line. If I were Boris I might recommend the Queen calls for Dominic Grieve or similar.
No it doesn't the Tories would not vote for him, the LDs and SNP and Labour would purely to extend, then VONC him again.
Labour would not vote for Grieve I suspect
Yes, but Corbyn would then be PM during the election campaign. Lines like "Don't risk Corbyn controlling our nuclear subs" lose a lot of weight when he's already controlling them.
This means resignation. Corbyn in No.10, massively legitimised.
Corbyn in No 10 for 10 seconds purely to extend as Neville Chamberlain 2, Tories then sweep through Labour Leave seats at the subsequent general election with Boris campaigning as Winston Churchill (while rightly telling Tory Remainers vote LD you get Corbyn)
You are such a prat, not even funny anymore. What has happened to you? You used to make some sensible comment. Now it is all war comic references and referring to decent British citizens as "traitors" for not agreeing with your myopic view. I am beginning to think you are actually a bot from Moscow.
Calm down. HYUFD can be strident, but he and Big G might well be right. We could be looking at a seismic shift in public opinion, as anger at parliament grows.
That anger is justified. MPs are spineless narcissists. We all know they want to Remain. But they are too scared to admit it. Well then, grow some fucking hairy bollocks and Revoke, if that’s what you want. Or call a new referendum. Just stop this wretched, self-serving pantomime of ‘delay’.
We. Need. Polls.
Sorry that is not true. I think many remain voting MPs share the view that is similar to mine. We cannot revoke. Most supported the WA. Compromise is needed but not being offered by this idiot PM
PS HYUFD completely destroyed any shred of cred he had when he started using the word "traitor". I have many friends and family who are remain sympathetic and have served their country in the armed forces. What the fuck has this idiot done for his country I would like to know?
chill out. Far worse stuff said on this forum than traitor.
I agree. He called me "anti-British" and nearly went off on one before I remembered I had described one poster here as looking like a stuffed toy after an ancounter with the customs officers looking for drugs. Motes and beams and all that - so I bit my tongue
I am really not sure refusing the election is smart politics. We now have a floundering parliament with a zombie government, whose feet are being held to the fire. Sure it’s all very entertaining watching Boris squirm but will the public see it as being in any way productive?
My anecdote today sits alongside other conversations and the general feeling that is out there of outrage. You would never normally hear politics spoken so much in public areas like Asda or the High Street.
I am beginning to feel it is a mistake of enormous proportions and labour in particular are going to pay a big price. Mind you if that results in the end of Corbyn as leader that would be a bonus
I have just returned from town having met a colleague from years ago and she has always been non political. Not this morning, she is furious with the mps for attempting to stop brexit and wants them gone
Later in Asda I overheard a group discussing brexit and they too were very angry and the target of that anger was Corbyn
Now we have a rebel alliance refusing the legitimate request to put it to the people until they think no deal is off the table, which of course it is not if Boris wins a GE on the basis of deal or no deal
Also does Gina Millar and John Major think they are winning the ordinary voters over with their elite attitude and pots of money attempts through the High and Supreme Courts decision on proroguing parliament. Most people have no idea about the detail but just see a group of the privileged colluding with the EU to stop brexit
Boris is a fool, but I am beginning to think the public are looking elswhere at the fools resisting brexit by any means possible
So, who are they going to vote for? Plaid?
Conwy/Colwyn was a Leave area in 2016. It appears to still be a Leave area
Boris resigns as PM, as an MP and also resigns from the Conservative Party. The Conservative Party and Parliament is in turmoil. Boris then joins the Brexit Party and takes Cummings with him, to fight the next GE alongside Farage.
Of course he won’t. It would be electoral seppuku. He will abide by the Surrender Act, and wait for the EU to impose a new extension, then he will turn to voters and say, Look, see what they’ve made us do, see how they’ve handed even more power to Brussels.
And it might work.
The question comes down to will the public be grateful that parliament engineered a way to block no-deal and also blocked an election they don't want, or will they see it as parliament blocking Brexit / GE and in doing some being anti-democratic.
Yes. The ensuing election will turn on that.
Except it won't. People are tired of Brexit. Europe has never interested anyone except the far right headbangers. People care far more about issues close to home: jobs, NHS, unemployment, prices, housing, equality, transport, crime etc.
So the Brexit flame may burn brightly for a few days but it won't last long in a General Election campaign. It's an election for 5 yrs of government and other issues will come to the fore again. Like they always did.
One aspect that will make the next general election campaign different is Johnson. He is like Trump in that he manages to dominate the news cycle. We have yet to see whether he is like Trump, in that gaffes and scandals are electorally harmless to him, but this means that there is not the potential for public debate on other issues. It will be about [Boris] Johnson.
I don't know what the public's verdict will be, but it's possible that this could be a factor in preventing opposition to the Tories from coalescing effectively - as it will also emphasise the character flaws of Jeremy Corbyn.
"You can't trust Boris" will be repeated ad nauseam by all the opposition parties, including the BXP. And it will cut through because it is true. He is an untrustworthy liar, both personally and politically.
This means resignation. Corbyn in No.10, massively legitimised.
Corbyn in No 10 for 10 seconds purely to extend as Neville Chamberlain 2, Tories then sweep through Labour Leave seats at the subsequent general election with Boris campaigning as Winston Churchill (while rightly telling Tory Remainers vote LD you get Corbyn)
You are such a prat, not even funny anymore. What has happened to you? You used to make some sensible comment. Now it is all war comic references and referring to decent British citizens as "traitors" for not agreeing with your myopic view. I am beginning to think you are actually a bot from Moscow.
Calm down. HYUFD can be strident, but he and Big G might well be right. We could be looking at a seismic shift in public opinion, as anger at parliament grows.
That anger is justified. MPs are spineless narcissists. We all know they want to Remain. But they are too scared to admit it. Well then, grow some fucking hairy bollocks and Revoke, if that’s what you want. Or call a new referendum. Just stop this wretched, self-serving pantomime of ‘delay’.
We. Need. Polls.
Sorry that is not true. I think many remain voting MPs share the view that is similar to mine. We cannot revoke. Most supported the WA. Compromise is needed but not being offered by this idiot PM
PS HYUFD completely destroyed any shred of cred he had when he started using the word "traitor". I have many friends and family who are remain sympathetic and have served their country in the armed forces. What the fuck has this idiot done for his country I would like to know?
I never said traitors to country, I said traitors to democracy, which they undoubtedly are having refused to respect the winning Leave vote despite voting to have the referendum and invoke Article 50 and most of the country feels the same
You called me a traitor to my country or, more precisely, "anti-British" which is essentially the same thing.
‘If by the end of 19 October the House of Commons has done neither of these things, the Prime Minister must then have sought from the European Council an extension of Article 50 for a further four months – until 31 January 2020.
If at any time after 19 October a withdrawal agreement is approved by the Commons, or the Commons decides the UK should leave without a deal, the Prime Minister can withdraw or modify his Article 50 extension request.
What happens if the European Council offers an extension? If the European Council offers a further extension until 31 January 2020, subsection 3(1) of this Bill compels the Prime Minister to inform the European Council that the UK agrees to the extension. This compulsion was not explicit in the Cooper-Letwin Bill back in April.
If the European Council offers a further extension, but to a date other than 31 January 2020, under subsections 3(2-3) the Prime Minister has two choices. Either he can:
(a) agree to that extension, or
(b) ask the House of Commons (within two calendar days) whether it wishes to approve that extension.
If the House of Commons “decides not to pass” a specifically-worded motion approving the extension, the Prime Minister then has a free choice whether or not to agree to the extension under subsection 3(4).’
That's exactly what I've been telling you!
Good God.
It’s not entirely clear - in that bit - what happens if Boris refuses to ask for an extension. It does clearly say the EU can then offer an extension of their devising, and either Boris can accept, or he can delegate it to parliament (who will accept )
Alastair explains this better than i can but if Parliament is prorogued until 14th October and then needs to re-convene and vote through an early GE that takes a minimum of 5 weeks then it has a very narrow window to successfully land at the end of November.
It’s really a bet on proroguation being cancelled or curtailed. VoNC shenanigans or even a new bill to terminate the session notwithstanding the FTPA wouldn’t make it any faster.
We know that the opposition parties are opposed to a pre-Halloween election, I wonder whether they want an election soon thereafter, or in March, or seven weeks after the Tories have lost their poll lead...?
Well we'll get to November and all will hear is how you can't have an election with the dark nights and bad weather so it's got to be put off to Spring.
What excuses they'll come up with in April 2020 will be a wonder to behold... But as the weeks tick by and become months with the never ending rotten, zombie Parliament expect the voters fury to grow and grow...
Boris resigns as PM, as an MP and also resigns from the Conservative Party. The Conservative Party and Parliament is in turmoil. Boris then joins the Brexit Party and takes Cummings with him, to fight the next GE alongside Farage.
Impossible? You couldn't make it up?
Cummings could make it up and it might just work!
some Conservative friends are concerned this may happen
Alastair explains this better than i can but if Parliament is prorogued until 14th October and then needs to re-convene and vote through an early GE that takes a minimum of 5 weeks then it has a very narrow window to successfully land at the end of November.
It’s really a bet on proroguation being cancelled or curtailed. VoNC shenanigans or even a new bill to terminate the session notwithstanding the FTPA wouldn’t make it any faster.
Agreed. 2020 has come in but is still the bet IMO.
Lots of people want to get Brexit over with. There's only one way to get Brexit over with. It's not No Deal - that will be followed by years of negotiating with the EU It's not May's WA - ditto It's not revoke - leavers will carry on campaigning to leave
It's to leave and stay in the Single Market and the Customs Union. Not only is this the option that by far the most people can live with, it has lots of advantages:
The UK carries out the result of 2016 referendum to leave the EU The disruption is minimal The UK will stop sending "350 million a week" to the EU The UK will be out of the CAP The UK will be out of the CFP The UK will be out of "ever-closer union" or the European superstate
Maybe the main problem is the UK will still have Freedom of Movement. But a few tweaks should be possible, I think a couple of restrictions could be introduced, an "emergency break" could be allowed. Maybe the UK could get an opt out from Freedom of Movement for any new member states, so that if, for example, Turkey ever joins the EU (of course it won't but that was a Leave campaign claim) Turkish citizens wouldn't get FoM to the UK, (nor British citizens to Turkey). Or some other fudges might be possible.
There's a few disadvantages as well of course, but it looks like the only reasonable way forward from here
that is far too sensible to appeal to the headbangers at either end of the debate. I would prefer that the whole sorry charade had never happened, but it has. I would be very happy with what you have described, it is the common sense solution.
It’s a bit of a wish list (eg we’d still have to send money to Brussels ) but I’d be content with that. Not happy, but content. And certainly pleased it was all over. I imagine 70% of the country would feel similar, and in 10 years we could revisit the issue and decide if we want to move further away (or further in again)
Question is, how do you get there, politically?
In 2016 a free vote would have been fine. Now the idea of compromise has been so tarnished that will look like a stitch up. A citizens assembly is the best option, and Rory Stewart would have made an excellent PM.
WTF is a citizens assembly in reality? Who chooses who goes there or can everyone go there.
If everyone can go to the citizens assembly then that would be a referendum. If only representatives of the people can go to the citizens assembly then that would be Parliament.
Rory Stewart would have made a terrible PM and got the result he deserved in the leadership election. He should respect democracy.
Go and read up on the Irish example before spouting your ignorant bile.
I have just returned from town having met a colleague from years ago and she has always been non political. Not this morning, she is furious with the mps for attempting to stop brexit and wants them gone
Later in Asda I overheard a group discussing brexit and they too were very angry and the target of that anger was Corbyn
Now we have a rebel alliance refusing the legitimate request to put it to the people until they think no deal is off the table, which of course it is not if Boris wins a GE on the basis of deal or no deal
Also does Gina Millar and John Major think they are winning the ordinary voters over with their elite attitude and pots of money attempts through the High and Supreme Courts decision on proroguing parliament. Most people have no idea about the detail but just see a group of the privileged colluding with the EU to stop brexit
Boris is a fool, but I am beginning to think the public are looking elswhere at the fools resisting brexit by any means possible
I don't think Boris is a fool. I think Boris could be heading for the biggest landslide victory since 1931.
Telling the British public they voted the wrong way 3 years ago is one thing, telling them they voted the wrong way then and you don't trust them to vote again now is . . . incredible!
That’s not the plan, at least not for the opposition parties. It’s to fuck the Conservatives.
If the Brexit vote splits between TBXP and the Tories then it does no good whatsoever in a GE.
Boris has done everything he needs to neuter BXP.
In March May wanted an extension, she voted for an extension on a free vote prior to Europe agreeing to it. Extension was her choice. As a result Brexiteers abandoned her.
Boris isn't doing that. Even if there's an extension its going to be clear who is to blame. I have lifelong Labour voters on Facebook outraged at Parliament and sharing Leave.EU stuff saying BXP and Boris need to work together.
The idea Parliament can frustrate an election, frustrate Brexit and the voters will blame Boris is too clever by half. We can see right through it. You don't even need to be politically engaged to see through it.
I have just returned from town having met a colleague from years ago and she has always been non political. Not this morning, she is furious with the mps for attempting to stop brexit and wants them gone
Later in Asda I overheard a group discussing brexit and they too were very angry and the target of that anger was Corbyn
Now we have a rebel alliance refusing the legitimate request to put it to the people until they think no deal is off the table, which of course it is not if Boris wins a GE on the basis of deal or no deal
Also does Gina Millar and John Major think they are winning the ordinary voters over with their elite attitude and pots of money attempts through the High and Supreme Courts decision on proroguing parliament. Most people have no idea about the detail but just see a group of the privileged colluding with the EU to stop brexit
Boris is a fool, but I am beginning to think the public are looking elswhere at the fools resisting brexit by any means possible
So, who are they going to vote for? Plaid?
Conwy/Colwyn was a Leave area in 2016. It appears to still be a Leave area
Not labour for sure but it is a very marginal con-labour seat.
Of course Colwyn Bay is held by David Jones, a huge brexiteer
I have just returned from town having met a colleague from years ago and she has always been non political. Not this morning, she is furious with the mps for attempting to stop brexit and wants them gone
Later in Asda I overheard a group discussing brexit and they too were very angry and the target of that anger was Corbyn
Now we have a rebel alliance refusing the legitimate request to put it to the people until they think no deal is off the table, which of course it is not if Boris wins a GE on the basis of deal or no deal
Also does Gina Millar and John Major think they are winning the ordinary voters over with their elite attitude and pots of money attempts through the High and Supreme Courts decision on proroguing parliament. Most people have no idea about the detail but just see a group of the privileged colluding with the EU to stop brexit
Boris is a fool, but I am beginning to think the public are looking elswhere at the fools resisting brexit by any means possible
Parliament/Westminster is playing a very, very dangerous game and I'm unsure what is is they think they are going to achieve - if they think the electorate will blame Boris for their game playing they are deluded (but then Remainers never have understood Leavers and have never made any attempt to do so - that's been half the problem)
Richard Tice on QT was very clear where the blame would lie if we don't leave on 31st October and it wasn't with Boris who I noted he was very supportative of.
Sooner or later cowardly Corbyn will have to stop cowering from behind the sofa and actually face the voters and when he does I suspect the voters verdict will be merciless.
This is correct. Ordinary law abiding citizens are starting to use language about our parliamentary system and MPs which should cause parliamentarians to sit up and think.
I have just returned from town having met a colleague from years ago and she has always been non political. Not this morning, she is furious with the mps for attempting to stop brexit and wants them gone
Later in Asda I overheard a group discussing brexit and they too were very angry and the target of that anger was Corbyn
Now we have a rebel alliance refusing the legitimate request to put it to the people until they think no deal is off the table, which of course it is not if Boris wins a GE on the basis of deal or no deal
Also does Gina Millar and John Major think they are winning the ordinary voters over with their elite attitude and pots of money attempts through the High and Supreme Courts decision on proroguing parliament. Most people have no idea about the detail but just see a group of the privileged colluding with the EU to stop brexit
Boris is a fool, but I am beginning to think the public are looking elswhere at the fools resisting brexit by any means possible
I don't think Boris is a fool. I think Boris could be heading for the biggest landslide victory since 1931.
Telling the British public they voted the wrong way 3 years ago is one thing, telling them they voted the wrong way then and you don't trust them to vote again now is . . . incredible!
That’s not the plan, at least not for the opposition parties. It’s to fuck the Conservatives.
If the Brexit vote splits between TBXP and the Tories then it does no good whatsoever in a GE.
Boris has done everything he needs to neuter BXP.
In March May wanted an extension, she voted for an extension on a free vote prior to Europe agreeing to it. Extension was her choice. As a result Brexiteers abandoned her.
Boris isn't doing that. Even if there's an extension its going to be clear who is to blame. I have lifelong Labour voters on Facebook outraged at Parliament and sharing Leave.EU stuff saying BXP and Boris need to work together.
The idea Parliament can frustrate an election, frustrate Brexit and the voters will blame Boris is too clever by half. We can see right through it. You don't even need to be politically engaged to see through it.
Yes, Corbyn needs to own his betrayal having voted 3 times against the Withdrawal Agreement and to extend Article 50 over No Deal. Boris voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at MV3 and against further extension.
Labour Leave voters also need to see that Corbyn owns the betrayal of their Leave vote too and Boris and Cummings will ensure that
‘If by the end of 19 October the House of Commons has done neither of these things, the Prime Minister must then have sought from the European Council an extension of Article 50 for a further four months – until 31 January 2020.
If at any time after 19 October a withdrawal agreement is approved by the Commons, or the Commons decides the UK should leave without a deal, the Prime Minister can withdraw or modify his Article 50 extension request.
What happens if the European Council offers an extension? If the European Council offers a further extension until 31 January 2020, subsection 3(1) of this Bill compels the Prime Minister to inform the European Council that the UK agrees to the extension. This compulsion was not explicit in the Cooper-Letwin Bill back in April.
If the European Council offers a further extension, but to a date other than 31 January 2020, under subsections 3(2-3) the Prime Minister has two choices. Either he can:
(a) agree to that extension, or
(b) ask the House of Commons (within two calendar days) whether it wishes to approve that extension.
If the House of Commons “decides not to pass” a specifically-worded motion approving the extension, the Prime Minister then has a free choice whether or not to agree to the extension under subsection 3(4).’
That's exactly what I've been telling you!
Good God.
Its not a long or complicated document and as I read it the 'offer' of an extension relates specifically to responding to the PMs request, they "decide to *agree* an extension" because they have been asked for one.
They can do that in one of two ways accept the date requested in the letter or offer another one. In either case they are responding - 'agreeing' - to the request by the PM. In the latter case Parliament can validate the alternative date. This doesn't cope with the PM not offering it in the first place.
Lots of people want to get Brexit over with. There's only one way to get Brexit over with. It's not No Deal - that will be followed by years of negotiating with the EU It's not May's WA - ditto It's not revoke - leavers will carry on campaigning to leave
It's to leave and stay in the Single Market and the Customs Union. Not only is this the option that by far the most people can live with, it has lots of advantages:
There's a few disadvantages as well of course, but it looks like the only reasonable way forward from here
that is far too sensible to appeal to the headbangers at either end of the debate. I would prefer that the whole sorry charade had never happened, but it has. I would be very happy with what you have described, it is the common sense solution.
It’s a bit of a wish list (eg we’d still have to send money to Brussels ) but I’d be content with that. Not happy, but content. And certainly pleased it was all over. I imagine 70% of the country would feel similar, and in 10 years we could revisit the issue and decide if we want to move further away (or further in again)
Question is, how do you get there, politically?
In 2016 a free vote would have been fine. Now the idea of compromise has been so tarnished that will look like a stitch up. A citizens assembly is the best option, and Rory Stewart would have made an excellent PM.
WTF is a citizens assembly in reality? Who chooses who goes there or can everyone go there.
If everyone can go to the citizens assembly then that would be a referendum. If only representatives of the people can go to the citizens assembly then that would be Parliament.
Rory Stewart would have made a terrible PM and got the result he deserved in the leadership election. He should respect democracy.
Go and read up on the Irish example before spouting your ignorant bile.
There's no such thing as a "bloc" for these purposes. There's confidence in individuals and no confidence in individuals.
I suggest that HM the Queen would call for the person Boris advised upon his resignation and no-one else. That looks like Corbyn unless something changed.
Mr DougSeal, HYUFD is a pathetic little pipsqueak who is not fit to lick the boots of many of the people he is insulting. They are not traitors to anything . People who disagree with a course of action are not obliged to fall in behind any foolhardy position that a small majority believes in. What if 52% wanted a return to slavery, or some such other savagery? The minority would have every right to try and demonstrate it was wrong. Difficult to remonstrate with someone who blindly follows Boris Johnson with the devotion of a particularly stupid puppydog I guess!
This means resignation. Corbyn in No.10, massively legitimised.
Corbyn in No 10 for 10 seconds purely to extend as Neville Chamberlain 2, Tories then sweep through Labour Leave seats at the subsequent general election with Boris campaigning as Winston Churchill (while rightly telling Tory Remainers vote LD you get Corbyn)
You are such a prat, not even funny anymore. What has happened to you? You used to make some sensible comment. Now it is all war comic references and referring to decent British citizens as "traitors" for not agreeing with your myopic view. I am beginning to think you are actually a bot from Moscow.
Calm down. HYUFD can be strident, but he and Big G might well be right. We could be looking at a seismic shift in public opinion, as anger at parliament grows.
That anger is justified. MPs are spineless narcissists. We all know they want to Remain. But they are too scared to admit it. Well then, grow some fucking hairy bollocks and Revoke, if that’s what you want. Or call a new referendum. Just stop this wretched, self-serving pantomime of ‘delay’.
We. Need. Polls.
Sorry that is not true. I think many remain voting MPs share the view that is similar to mine. We cannot revoke. Most supported the WA. Compromise is needed but not being offered by this idiot PM
PS HYUFD completely destroyed any shred of cred he had when he started using the word "traitor". I have many friends and family who are remain sympathetic and have served their country in the armed forces. What the fuck has this idiot done for his country I would like to know?
I never said traitors to country, I said traitors to democracy, which they undoubtedly are having refused to respect the winning Leave vote despite voting to have the referendum and invoke Article 50 and most of the country feels the same
You called me a traitor to my country or, more precisely, "anti-British" which is essentially the same thing.
As you refused to condemn an image of the burning of the Union Jack
Go and read up on the Irish example before spouting your ignorant bile.
Leavers want everything fed to them on a plate - they don't want to have to read things. They are frightened they may discover things don't work the way they imagine / hope they do.
‘If by the end of 19 October the House of Commons has done neither of these things, the Prime Minister must then have sought from the European Council an extension of Article 50 for a further four months – until 31 January 2020.
If at any time after 19 October a withdrawal agreement is approved by the Commons, or the Commons decides the UK should leave without a deal, the Prime Minister can withdraw or modify his Article 50 extension request.
What happens if the European Council offers an extension? If the European Council offers a further extension until 31 January 2020, subsection 3(1) of this Bill compels the Prime Minister to inform the European Council that the UK agrees to the extension. This compulsion was not explicit in the Cooper-Letwin Bill back in April.
If the European Council offers a further extension, but to a date other than 31 January 2020, under subsections 3(2-3) the Prime Minister has two choices. Either he can:
(a) agree to that extension, or
(b) ask the House of Commons (within two calendar days) whether it wishes to approve that extension.
If the House of Commons “decides not to pass” a specifically-worded motion approving the extension, the Prime Minister then has a free choice whether or not to agree to the extension under subsection 3(4).’
That's exactly what I've been telling you!
Good God.
It’s not entirely clear - in that bit - what happens if Boris refuses to ask for an extension. It does clearly say the EU can then offer an extension of their devising, and either Boris can accept, or he can delegate it to parliament (who will accept )
So, again, I think I’m right.
No, because the wording is "If the European Council decides to agree an extension of the period in Article50(3) of the Treaty on European Union ending at 11.00 pm on 31 October 2019to the period ending at 11.00pm on 31 January 2020 ..."
Perhaps it would indeed have been better to say "decides to offer," but evidently the bill wasn't drafted to accommodate a prime ministerial refusal to comply with statute law.
I have just returned from town having met a colleague from years ago and she has always been non political. Not this morning, she is furious with the mps for attempting to stop brexit and wants them gone
Later in Asda I overheard a group discussing brexit and they too were very angry and the target of that anger was Corbyn
Now we have a rebel alliance refusing the legitimate request to put it to the people until they think no deal is off the table, which of course it is not if Boris wins a GE on the basis of deal or no deal
Also does Gina Millar and John Major think they are winning the ordinary voters over with their elite attitude and pots of money attempts through the High and Supreme Courts decision on proroguing parliament. Most people have no idea about the detail but just see a group of the privileged colluding with the EU to stop brexit
Boris is a fool, but I am beginning to think the public are looking elswhere at the fools resisting brexit by any means possible
Parliament/Westminster is playing a very, very dangerous game and I'm unsure what is is they think they are going to achieve - if they think the electorate will blame Boris for their game playing they are deluded (but then Remainers never have understood Leavers and have never made any attempt to do so - that's been half the problem)
Richard Tice on QT was very clear where the blame would lie if we don't leave on 31st October and it wasn't with Boris who I noted he was very supportative of.
Sooner or later cowardly Corbyn will have to stop cowering from behind the sofa and actually face the voters and when he does I suspect the voters verdict will be merciless.
This is correct. Ordinary law abiding citizens are starting to use language about our parliamentary system and MPs which should cause parliamentarians to sit up and think.
The echoes of the Civil War are, once again, profound. If you’d asked parliamentarians in the 1630s whether they’d end up beheading the king, they would have called you mad. Back then, Oliver Cromwell was an obscure yokel.
But what started with arcane disputes about money ended up with the overthrow of the entire system, and with Cromwell as Lord Protector.
I have just returned from town having met a colleague from years ago and she has always been non political. Not this morning, she is furious with the mps for attempting to stop brexit and wants them gone
Later in Asda I overheard a group discussing brexit and they too were very angry and the target of that anger was Corbyn
Now we have a rebel alliance refusing the legitimate request to put it to the people until they think no deal is off the table, which of course it is not if Boris wins a GE on the basis of deal or no deal
Also does Gina Millar and John Major think they are winning the ordinary voters over with their elite attitude and pots of money attempts through the High and Supreme Courts decision on proroguing parliament. Most people have no idea about the detail but just see a group of the privileged colluding with the EU to stop brexit
Boris is a fool, but I am beginning to think the public are looking elswhere at the fools resisting brexit by any means possible
I don't think Boris is a fool. I think Boris could be heading for the biggest landslide victory since 1931.
Telling the British public they voted the wrong way 3 years ago is one thing, telling them they voted the wrong way then and you don't trust them to vote again now is . . . incredible!
That’s not the plan, at least not for the opposition parties. It’s to fuck the Conservatives.
If the Brexit vote splits between TBXP and the Tories then it does no good whatsoever in a GE.
Boris has done everything he needs to neuter BXP.
In March May wanted an extension, she voted for an extension on a free vote prior to Europe agreeing to it. Extension was her choice. As a result Brexiteers abandoned her.
Boris isn't doing that. Even if there's an extension its going to be clear who is to blame. I have lifelong Labour voters on Facebook outraged at Parliament and sharing Leave.EU stuff saying BXP and Boris need to work together.
The idea Parliament can frustrate an election, frustrate Brexit and the voters will blame Boris is too clever by half. We can see right through it. You don't even need to be politically engaged to see through it.
They have swollowed their own spin that Leavers are all thick and stupid and can be played by them... It will blow up up in theior faces spectacularly.
This means resignation. Corbyn in No.10, massively legitimised.
Corbyn in No 10 for 10 seconds purely to extend as Neville Chamberlain 2, Tories then sweep through Labour Leave seats at the subsequent general election with Boris campaigning as Winston Churchill (while rightly telling Tory Remainers vote LD you get Corbyn)
You are such a prat, not even funny anymore. What has happened to you? You used to make some sensible comment. Now it is all war comic references and referring to decent British citizens as "traitors" for not agreeing with your myopic view. I am beginning to think you are actually a bot from Moscow.
Calm down. HYUFD can be strident, but he and Big G might well be right. We could be looking at a seismic shift in public opinion, as anger at parliament grows.
That anger is justified. MPs are spineless narcissists. We all know they want to Remain. But they are too scared to admit it. Well then, grow some fucking hairy bollocks and Revoke, if that’s what you want. Or call a new referendum. Just stop this wretched, self-serving pantomime of ‘delay’.
We. Need. Polls.
Sorry that is not true. I think many remain voting MPs share the view that is similar to mine. We cannot revoke. Most supported the WA. Compromise is needed but not being offered by this idiot PM
PS HYUFD completely destroyed any shred of cred he had when he started using the word "traitor". I have many friends and family who are remain sympathetic and have served their country in the armed forces. What the fuck has this idiot done for his country I would like to know?
chill out. Far worse stuff said on this forum than traitor.
I agree. He called me "anti-British" and nearly went off on one before I remembered I had described one poster here as looking like a stuffed toy after an ancounter with the customs officers looking for drugs. Motes and beams and all that - so I bit my tongue
He even accused me of being a lib dem and keeps repeating it, bless him
Johnson would not want another Tory to replace him, he'd want Corbyn to take over.
If Corbyn takes over that neutralises the "don't make Corbyn PM" line. If I were Boris I might recommend the Queen calls for Dominic Grieve or similar.
No it doesn't the Tories would not vote for him, the LDs and SNP and Labour would purely to extend, then VONC him again.
Labour would not vote for Grieve I suspect
Yes, but Corbyn would then be PM during the election campaign. Lines like "Don't risk Corbyn controlling our nuclear subs" lose a lot of weight when he's already controlling them.
So what, it will be the LDs putting Corbyn in alongside the SNP NOT the Tories thus the Tories can use the line 'vote LD or SNP and get Corbyn' on the election campaign even if they Confirm straight after election
Comments
Obviously I'm on Ken Clarke and biased. Nicholas Soames would be rather sweet justice ...
I don't think the EU want to be seen as responsible for Brexit failing, they just want to engineer that it is so incredibly difficult that in the end the British public cave in blaming our crap politicians.
Except it won't. People are tired of Brexit. Europe has never interested anyone except the far right headbangers. People care far more about issues close to home: jobs, NHS, unemployment, prices, housing, equality, transport, crime etc.
So the Brexit flame may burn brightly for a few days but it won't last long in a General Election campaign. It's an election for 5 yrs of government and other issues will come to the fore again. Like they always did.
The Conservatives still, at present, have many more MPs than Labour (289 v 247), so unless there is a formal pact between the parts of the Rebel Alliance there is not the justification for asking for Corbyn over A N Other Tory - unless, of course, Johnson were to advise HMQ otherwise.
https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1169931174359306245
Really, the amount of drivel that's posted here - I mean factually incorrect stuff even when the facts are straightforward and well known to most people - is absolutely breathtaking.
However. I would caution that a wounded beast is a dangerous animal.
The Opposition need now to be very very careful.
Telling the British public they voted the wrong way 3 years ago is one thing, telling them they voted the wrong way then and you don't trust them to vote again now is . . . incredible!
That anger is justified. MPs are spineless narcissists. We all know they want to Remain. But they are too scared to admit it. Well then, grow some fucking hairy bollocks and Revoke, if that’s what you want. Or call a new referendum. Just stop this wretched, self-serving pantomime of ‘delay’.
We. Need. Polls.
It's one of the reasons that the Rebel Alliance need to come up with a way forward beyond extending Article 50. If they don't bring an end to this limbo then the probability that someone else will rises.
It's not helped by the 'fact' (ho ho) that the Fixed Term Parliament Act is vague on detail and certainly open to interpretation if a VONC succeeds.
There is no clear right or wrong, good or bad here any more. We need to accept that.
https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1169924684021948418?s=19
In any case, as pointed out in Morley yesterday, he should be negotiating in Brussells, not arsing about the country.
I don't know what the public's verdict will be, but it's possible that this could be a factor in preventing opposition to the Tories from coalescing effectively - as it will also emphasise the character flaws of Jeremy Corbyn.
Alastair explains this better than i can but if Parliament is prorogued until 14th October and then needs to re-convene and vote through an early GE that takes a minimum of 5 weeks then it has a very narrow window to successfully land at the end of November.
It’s really a bet on proroguation being cancelled or curtailed. VoNC shenanigans or even a new bill to terminate the session notwithstanding the FTPA wouldn’t make it any faster.
‘If by the end of 19 October the House of Commons has done neither of these things, the Prime Minister must then have sought from the European Council an extension of Article 50 for a further four months – until 31 January 2020.
If at any time after 19 October a withdrawal agreement is approved by the Commons, or the Commons decides the UK should leave without a deal, the Prime Minister can withdraw or modify his Article 50 extension request.
What happens if the European Council offers an extension?
If the European Council offers a further extension until 31 January 2020, subsection 3(1) of this Bill compels the Prime Minister to inform the European Council that the UK agrees to the extension. This compulsion was not explicit in the Cooper-Letwin Bill back in April.
If the European Council offers a further extension, but to a date other than 31 January 2020, under subsections 3(2-3) the Prime Minister has two choices. Either he can:
(a) agree to that extension, or
(b) ask the House of Commons (within two calendar days) whether it wishes to approve that extension.
If the House of Commons “decides not to pass” a specifically-worded motion approving the extension, the Prime Minister then has a free choice whether or not to agree to the extension under subsection 3(4).’
Labour would not vote for Grieve I suspect
Richard Tice on QT was very clear where the blame would lie if we don't leave on 31st October and it wasn't with Boris who I noted he was very supportative of.
Sooner or later cowardly Corbyn will have to stop cowering from behind the sofa and actually face the voters and when he does I suspect the voters verdict will be merciless.
Good God.
If the Brexit vote splits between TBXP and the Tories then it does no good whatsoever in a GE.
I am beginning to feel it is a mistake of enormous proportions and labour in particular are going to pay a big price. Mind you if that results in the end of Corbyn as leader that would be a bonus
Conwy/Colwyn was a Leave area in 2016. It appears to still be a Leave area
Impossible? You couldn't make it up?
Cummings could make it up and it might just work!
So, again, I think I’m right.
What excuses they'll come up with in April 2020 will be a wonder to behold... But as the weeks tick by and become months with the never ending rotten, zombie Parliament expect the voters fury to grow and grow...
In March May wanted an extension, she voted for an extension on a free vote prior to Europe agreeing to it. Extension was her choice. As a result Brexiteers abandoned her.
Boris isn't doing that. Even if there's an extension its going to be clear who is to blame. I have lifelong Labour voters on Facebook outraged at Parliament and sharing Leave.EU stuff saying BXP and Boris need to work together.
The idea Parliament can frustrate an election, frustrate Brexit and the voters will blame Boris is too clever by half. We can see right through it. You don't even need to be politically engaged to see through it.
Of course Colwyn Bay is held by David Jones, a huge brexiteer
Labour Leave voters also need to see that Corbyn owns the betrayal of their Leave vote too and Boris and Cummings will ensure that
They can do that in one of two ways accept the date requested in the letter or offer another one. In either case they are responding - 'agreeing' - to the request by the PM. In the latter case Parliament can validate the alternative date. This doesn't cope with the PM not offering it in the first place.
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2017-2019/0202/18202.pdf
I suggest that HM the Queen would call for the person Boris advised upon his resignation and no-one else. That looks like Corbyn unless something changed.
The crisis would be if Boris named no-one.
Perhaps it would indeed have been better to say "decides to offer," but evidently the bill wasn't drafted to accommodate a prime ministerial refusal to comply with statute law.
The echoes of the Civil War are, once again, profound. If you’d asked parliamentarians in the 1630s whether they’d end up beheading the king, they would have called you mad. Back then, Oliver Cromwell was an obscure yokel.
But what started with arcane disputes about money ended up with the overthrow of the entire system, and with Cromwell as Lord Protector.