politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson loses his first Parliamentary vote, no wonder he
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This blog post by Robert Craig concludes that, unlike the Cooper-Letwin bill, the Benn bill does require Queen's Consent:dyedwoolie said:
Not assent, consent. If a bill affects the royal prerogative it requires royal consent to reach the end of the parliamentary process which must be proposed by a minister. Assent is rubber stamping something that's passed all 3 readings etcBenpointer said:
Doesn't our whole constitution depend on the monarch always assenting to bills passed by Parliament?dyedwoolie said:I think either he will accept the bill in return for GE Oct 15 or if consent is required threaten no consent without GE, against Corbyns No GE without bill
Given the protests already seen over prorogation what will we see if assent is withheld?
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/09/02/proponents-of-the-new-bill-to-stop-no-deal-face-a-significant-dilemma-over-queens-consent/0 -
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He was at his best tonight. Sober as well.Richard_Nabavi said:
I expect he'll take it in his stride. His sense of perspective is unrivalled.TheScreamingEagles said:I'm absolutely heart broken that Kenneth Clarke has been kicked out of the Tory party, nearly fifty years of service in Parliament, over 25 years on the front bench.
He was the greatest Chancellor of my lifetime, and one of the main reasons I'm a Conservative and joined the Tory party.
Not regretting my resignation, but regretting that it has come to this for Ken.-1 -
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For my entire life politics has been predictable within certain boundaries (e.g. we all made a few quid when the Cameron majority surprise turned up before the bookies could adapt, but a Milliband Gvt would have looked similar in many ways) but all that’s gone now. Who the f### knows what happens next?
A decent Boris majority is possible (followed by swiftly becoming super unpopular, not that it matters with a big majority); a Corbyn led Remain coalition is possible (though you’d think it might fall apart over the impending recession); and frankly some bonkers stuff like a LibDem Gvt doesn’t feel impossible.
Who the f%## knows?0 -
Today is the first day since 18th June 1970 that Ken Clarke hasn't been a Conservative MP.0
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It's a shame he didn't retire in 2017. He knew the Conservatives had left his Europhilia behind then, the party was a Leave party and he was not. Shame it has come to this - he is the ONLY MP in the 21 I respect unconditionally. He has his principles, he opposed Article 50, he is the only one to be consistent.TheScreamingEagles said:I'm absolutely heart broken that Kenneth Clarke has been kicked out of the Tory party, nearly fifty years of service in Parliament, over 25 years on the front bench.
He was the greatest Chancellor of my lifetime, and one of the main reasons I'm a Conservative and joined the Tory party.
Not regretting my resignation, but regretting that it has come to this for Ken.
Its a shame, but its come to it. Thank you for your service Ken.1 -
Just heard Richard Burgon say on Newsnight that he'd never trust Boris Johnson. I feel sick again. I agree with Richard Burgon.0
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Burgon drowning on BBC - wants a deal so they can have a referendum to vote for Remain 😂😂
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If he was standing for Pb Central, yes he would he win as an Independent.rottenborough said:Surely Rory would have won hos seat as an Indie Tory?
Unfortunately, he is standing for Penrith and the Borders. He knows he'd lose ...
... and that is why he has gone.0 -
Rory is giving up?rottenborough said:
This is a truly terrible loss to politics in general and to the future of Cons, if and when they recover the idea of being a broad church.Scott_P said:
I thought he was determined to walk around and convince people one by one. I'm really disappointed by that.0 -
Indeed Rory was very popular with the punters, just not with the Tory selectorate.OllyT said:TGOHF said:
If a footie team finished bottom of the league the manager and bad players would be out on their ear.HYUFD said:
Kaboom! Boris unites the vast majority of Leave voters behind the Tories while the diehard Remainers are split down the middle.rottenborough said:
The Cons have changed their manager now the duff big time players have sold themselves to Rochdale.
I really don'r think that that's how the average punter is going to see the likes of Rory Stewart, Ken Clarke, Justine Greening and Philip Hammond being kicked out of the Conservative Party.0 -
Its a moot point, if the PM refuses to get royal consent and the Queen allows this, parliament will install a new PM, who will do it.Chris said:
This blog post by Robert Craig concludes that, unlike the Cooper-Letwin bill, the Benn bill does require Queen's Consent:dyedwoolie said:
Not assent, consent. If a bill affects the royal prerogative it requires royal consent to reach the end of the parliamentary process which must be proposed by a minister. Assent is rubber stamping something that's passed all 3 readings etcBenpointer said:
Doesn't our whole constitution depend on the monarch always assenting to bills passed by Parliament?dyedwoolie said:I think either he will accept the bill in return for GE Oct 15 or if consent is required threaten no consent without GE, against Corbyns No GE without bill
Given the protests already seen over prorogation what will we see if assent is withheld?
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/09/02/proponents-of-the-new-bill-to-stop-no-deal-face-a-significant-dilemma-over-queens-consent/0 -
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I understand your pain, TSE, and sympathise. But until you understand how Ken “I’ve not read the Maastricht Treaty” Clarke is one of the REASONS we are where we are, then you won’t understand Britain’s politics in a basic way. And your bewildered grief will continue.TheScreamingEagles said:I'm absolutely heart broken that Kenneth Clarke has been kicked out of the Tory party, nearly fifty years of service in Parliament, over 25 years on the front bench.
He was the greatest Chancellor of my lifetime, and one of the main reasons I'm a Conservative and joined the Tory party.
Not regretting my resignation, but regretting that it has come to this for Ken.
Arrogant, lazy, casual, frivolous, complacent europhiles like Clarke believed they were simply right about the EU, and that everyone else was wrong. What’s worse, they believed that anyone who queried them was a racist or an idiot, and should be ignored by polite folk. This bred a festering resentment, which, in the end, led to Brexit.
Clarke is too old and vain to undertake the self examination needed to realise this. You are not.1 -
'Bottle' means recklessness. It might just work, for one election. The party will be even more wrecked by it than it currently is, though. Not to mention the country.DavidL said:
And yet he is doing it anyway and rightfully so. If only May had shown that sort of bottle we might not be in this mess.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, quite. Rees-Mogg, Steve Baker, Boris and the rest of the nutjobs should have been sacked by Theresa May. Unfortunately she didn't have the numbers or support to do so, but nor does Boris.Philip_Thompson said:
Doesn't matter how many years of service to the party and country you have if you vote against on a confidence matter does it?Richard_Nabavi said:More rebels will need to be deselected tomorrow, I reckon.
(By 'rebels', I of course mean loyal Conservatives with many years of service to the party and country).0 -
A dozen years longer than I've been alive.AndyJS said:Today is the first day since 18th June 1970 that Ken Clarke hasn't been a Conservative MP.
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That's not a good look for Boris in tomorrow's SunGallowgate said:0 -
YupFoxy said:
No, the UK is done. It is just a matter of timing now.Drutt said:
Yeah, just like every other political development for the last seven years.Gallowgate said:
Sounds like the end of the union.Theuniondivvie said:
Listen, I hate to break it to you, but when it comes to matters of sovereignty the Scottish electorate are cuckolds. They voted for Union cuckoldry in 2014 and they voted for supranational cuckoldry in 2016. I can only think of a handful of countries that have eschewed independence when it's been offered at the ballot box, and north of the border you've done it twice in thirty months.
What makes you think that there's any possibility of Scotland voting to leave the UK outside the EU?
Brexit has created such a schism between England and Scotland and England that the Union is over, even if we Remain.0 -
Fair point.NickPalmer said:
I think the Tories will still be comfortably ahead, but also that tactical anti-Tory voting is now going to be commonplace. We've seen several examples here of posters who were never-Corbyn who are going to vote Labour tactically, and I know several Labour people who are going to vote LibDem, in some cases in a quiet agreement with someone in another seat going the other way. The Johnson/Cummings assault has pushed the opposition parties much closer together.Byronic said:The next UK opinion polls are going to be incredibly interesting - and maybe v v important. How will the voters react?
So hard to call.0 -
Two consolations for the Tories:
1. There would have been 22 rebels, but luckily one of their MPs crossed the floor before he could rebel.
2. There will now be enough space on the Tory benches for more of their MPs to lounge in the Wooster-like manner of the Moggster.2 -
It is not even about the average punter, 1 in 3 tory voters were remainers this morning. Their vote will be up for grabs in this campaign.OllyT said:TGOHF said:
If a footie team finished bottom of the league the manager and bad players would be out on their ear.HYUFD said:
Kaboom! Boris unites the vast majority of Leave voters behind the Tories while the diehard Remainers are split down the middle.rottenborough said:
The Cons have changed their manager now the duff big time players have sold themselves to Rochdale.
I really don'r think that that's how the average punter is going to see the likes of Rory Stewart, Ken Clarke, Justine Greening and Philip Hammond being kicked out of the Conservative Party.1 -
They were Tory MPs at the time of the vote, so no, 100% of Tory MPs did not vote with the whip. Some didn't and have now been punished. Whether that is a good or bad thing - I say it is a good thing because the divisions are clearer now - the party was demonstrably not united until after the vote.Philip_Thompson said:
He's united the Conservative Party.SouthamObserver said:Maverick genius Dominic Cumming has reunited the Labour Party and split the Conservative Party. In a month. That’s one hell of an achievement
I think you will find 100% of Conservative MPs voted with the whip tonight. The party is united.0 -
It is the Scottish Sun!Benpointer said:
That's not a good look for Boris in tomorrow's SunGallowgate said:0 -
I will vote LD in K&S if someone votes Labour in a Tory-Labour marginal.NickPalmer said:
I think the Tories will still be comfortably ahead, but also that tactical anti-Tory voting is now going to be commonplace. We've seen several examples here of posters who were never-Corbyn who are going to vote Labour tactically, and I know several Labour people who are going to vote LibDem, in some cases in a quiet agreement with someone in another seat going the other way. The Johnson/Cummings assault has pushed the opposition parties much closer together.Byronic said:The next UK opinion polls are going to be incredibly interesting - and maybe v v important. How will the voters react?
So hard to call.
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Richard Burgon making a tit of himself on BBC as usual.1
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The notion of Rory as the future of the Con party was starkly highlighted by the level of his support in the leadership election.OblitusSumMe said:
Rory is giving up?rottenborough said:
This is a truly terrible loss to politics in general and to the future of Cons, if and when they recover the idea of being a broad church.Scott_P said:
I thought he was determined to walk around and convince people one by one. I'm really disappointed by that.0 -
Boris wanted a place (like Churchill) in the history books.Scott_P said:BoZo loses his first vote as PM
He won't win tomorrow.
the only vote he may win as PM is the one removing him from office.
Quite an achievement
After tonight he will definitely be in the history books0 -
Yes, I think it's quite sad. He wasn't well liked by the Conservatives: a thoughtful Tory is missing the point. But he was a grace to his party and is not easily replaced.rottenborough said:
This is a truly terrible loss to politics in general and to the future of Cons, if and when they recover the idea of being a broad church.Scott_P said:0 -
not_on_fire said:
You missed the best one of all...DougSeal said:Tonight I have learned on PB -
1) Tonight’s vote was a “confidence” motion, so the whip should be withdrawn from the rebels, unlike those who voted against the WA, but that the Prime Minister doesn’t have to resign having lost it
2) The Conservative & Unionist Party is the “anti-establishment” party.
Wow.
3). Jacob Rees-Mogg is a Northern working-class hero
Only from the PB Tories.
Only on PB.
(Filling in for Tim at these critical moments)0 -
Yeah, it was being whispered on Twitter earlier that Labour would demand December for the election.Paristonda said:What Labour really need to do is find a way to get the election called for post October 31st, meaning the extension legislation will have to be used, and the do or die deadline passes, and with it any credibility Boris has left. Could proroguing parliament actually help here? Just need to avoid having an election vote before next week, then can't have one until afterward in October.
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Indeed it is, and no way for a party to reward someone of his service.TheScreamingEagles said:
I know but still feel incredibly sad.Richard_Nabavi said:
I expect he'll take it in his stride. His sense of perspective is unrivalled.TheScreamingEagles said:I'm absolutely heart broken that Kenneth Clarke has been kicked out of the Tory party, nearly fifty years of service in Parliament, over 25 years on the front bench.
He was the greatest Chancellor of my lifetime, and one of the main reasons I'm a Conservative and joined the Tory party.
Not regretting my resignation, but regretting that it has come to this for Ken.
His parting shot on a Newsnight was to muse that he’d have to consider whether he could vote for a party led by Johnson in the coming election.
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I'm living in the moment. Zen.Anabobazina said:
Will sound very hubristic if they win a GE with the most right wing intake in living memory. That’s a risk.SandyRentool said:Remember comrades, if it wasn't for us Labour Leavers, the Tories wouldn't be in this mess.
Please form an orderly queue to buy me and BJO a pint...1 -
So is he or isn't he?Scott_P said:0 -
Remember during the leadership campaign when some Boris backers were hinting he'd shift back towards a moderate position after tricking the ERG nutters into giving him their vote?Scott_P said:0 -
No, at the end of June YouGov had it Tories 22%, Brexit Party 22%, Labour 20%, LDs 19%.SouthamObserver said:Maverick genius Dominic Cumming has reunited the Labour Party and split the Conservative Party. In a month. That’s one hell of an achievement
Today YouGov has it Tories 35%, Labour 25%, LDs 16%, Brexit Party 11%.
A swing of 4% from Labour to the Tories, 8% from the LDs to the Tories and 12% from the Brexit Party to the Tories in just over 2 months.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election0 -
If Johnson keeps losing his MPs at this rate he wont even be leader of the oppoition.Scott_P said:0 -
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That's the Scotch edition, the rUK one may be a bit 'different'.Benpointer said:
That's not a good look for Boris in tomorrow's SunGallowgate said:0 -
Paints Remainers as the winners and Boris as a loser to be honest.Scott_P said:0 -
Ken Clarke's comment was in relation to the Scott Inquiry when Mrs Thatcher said she never read every single report she received, she didn't have the time, she only read the summaries in most instances.Byronic said:
I understand your pain, TSE, and sympathise. But until you understand how Ken “I’ve not read the Maastricht Treaty” Clarke is one of the REASONS we are where we are, then you won’t understand Britain’s politics in a basic way. And your bewildered grief will continue.TheScreamingEagles said:I'm absolutely heart broken that Kenneth Clarke has been kicked out of the Tory party, nearly fifty years of service in Parliament, over 25 years on the front bench.
He was the greatest Chancellor of my lifetime, and one of the main reasons I'm a Conservative and joined the Tory party.
Not regretting my resignation, but regretting that it has come to this for Ken.
Arrogant, lazy, casual, frivolous, complacent europhiles like Clarke believed they were simply right about the EU, and that everyone else was wrong. What’s worse, they believed that anyone who queried them was a racist or an idiot, and should be ignored by polite folk. This bred a festering resentment, which, in the end, led to Brexit.
Clarke is too old and vain to undertake the self examination needed to realise this. You are not.
I'd remind you Ken Clarke voted three times to Leave the EU.1 -
Isn't that what we were all agreeing was so problematical, only a few days ago?noneoftheabove said:
Its a moot point, if the PM refuses to get royal consent and the Queen allows this, parliament will install a new PM, who will do it.Chris said:
This blog post by Robert Craig concludes that, unlike the Cooper-Letwin bill, the Benn bill does require Queen's Consent:dyedwoolie said:
Not assent, consent. If a bill affects the royal prerogative it requires royal consent to reach the end of the parliamentary process which must be proposed by a minister. Assent is rubber stamping something that's passed all 3 readings etcBenpointer said:
Doesn't our whole constitution depend on the monarch always assenting to bills passed by Parliament?dyedwoolie said:I think either he will accept the bill in return for GE Oct 15 or if consent is required threaten no consent without GE, against Corbyns No GE without bill
Given the protests already seen over prorogation what will we see if assent is withheld?
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/09/02/proponents-of-the-new-bill-to-stop-no-deal-face-a-significant-dilemma-over-queens-consent/0 -
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Excellent, all going perfectly to plan. The Sun saying Boris has been humiliated, with his head in his hands. Just what was needed to shore up victory. Cummings is five moves ahead of us every time.Gallowgate said:
Edit: ah just seen the English Sun version - more like I was expecting!0 -
Good point - sorry, I missed that!Gallowgate said:
It is the Scottish Sun!Benpointer said:
That's not a good look for Boris in tomorrow's SunGallowgate said:0 -
I'll donate £100 to a charity of your choice on the day Scotland leaves the UK, if you send a pound a month to a charity of my choice for every month Scotland is in the UK. Deal?Foxy said:
No, the UK is done. It is just a matter of timing now.Drutt said:
Yeah, just like every other political development for the last seven years.Gallowgate said:
Sounds like the end of the union.Theuniondivvie said:
Listen, I hate to break it to you, but when it comes to matters of sovereignty the Scottish electorate are cuckolds. They voted for Union cuckoldry in 2014 and they voted for supranational cuckoldry in 2016. I can only think of a handful of countries that have eschewed independence when it's been offered at the ballot box, and north of the border you've done it twice in thirty months.
What makes you think that there's any possibility of Scotland voting to leave the UK outside the EU?
Brexit has created such a schism between England and Scotland and England that the Union is over, even if we Remain.0 -
Too pro EU and lily livered.eek said:
Nigel Farage or Steve Baker?not_on_fire said:Is it time to open the book on the next Tory leader?
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https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1169007624521736192
As SeanT might once have said, "fuck it, let's have a civil war"
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Does it matter? No one seems that concerned by rules or conventions anymore, unless they can weaponise them.Chris said:
This blog post by Robert Craig concludes that, unlike the Cooper-Letwin bill, the Benn bill does require Queen's Consent:dyedwoolie said:
Not assent, consent. If a bill affects the royal prerogative it requires royal consent to reach the end of the parliamentary process which must be proposed by a minister. Assent is rubber stamping something that's passed all 3 readings etcBenpointer said:
Doesn't our whole constitution depend on the monarch always assenting to bills passed by Parliament?dyedwoolie said:I think either he will accept the bill in return for GE Oct 15 or if consent is required threaten no consent without GE, against Corbyns No GE without bill
Given the protests already seen over prorogation what will we see if assent is withheld?
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/09/02/proponents-of-the-new-bill-to-stop-no-deal-face-a-significant-dilemma-over-queens-consent/
And in March they had a 41:31 lead over Labour, what of it?HYUFD said:
No, at the end of June YouGov had it Tories 22%, Brexit Party 22%, Labour 20%, LDs 19%.SouthamObserver said:Maverick genius Dominic Cumming has reunited the Labour Party and split the Conservative Party. In a month. That’s one hell of an achievement
Today YouGov has it Tories 35%, Labour 25%, LDs 16%, Brexit Party 11%.
A swing of 4% from Labour to the Tories, 8% from the LDs to the Tories and 12% from the Brexit Party to the Tories in just over 2 months.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election0 -
That was before anyone saw his abject performance today.HYUFD said:
No, at the end of June YouGov had it Tories 22%, Brexit Party 22%, Labour 20%, LDs 19%.SouthamObserver said:Maverick genius Dominic Cumming has reunited the Labour Party and split the Conservative Party. In a month. That’s one hell of an achievement
Today YouGov has it Tories 35%, Labour 25%, LDs 16%, Brexit Party 11%.
A swing of 4% from Labour to the Tories, 8% from the LDs to the Tories and 12% from the Brexit Party to the Tories in just over 2 months.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election0 -
Someone criticised me earlier for being too harsh on the FTPA but isn't this exactly one of the places where its presence got in the way?Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, quite. Rees-Mogg, Steve Baker, Boris and the rest of the nutjobs should have been sacked by Theresa May. Unfortunately she didn't have the numbers or support to do so, but nor does Boris.Philip_Thompson said:
Doesn't matter how many years of service to the party and country you have if you vote against on a confidence matter does it?Richard_Nabavi said:More rebels will need to be deselected tomorrow, I reckon.
(By 'rebels', I of course mean loyal Conservatives with many years of service to the party and country).
If May had made voting for her deal a matter of confidence (something not possible under the FTPA) she'd either have got it through* or would have fought a GE on it. There was a point at which voters had a degree of sympathy for her efforts to leave with a deal. I suspect in practice she'd have been eviscerated by virtue of her deal being torn apart by all sides - "too Tory" say Labour, "not a real Brexit" says Farage now possibly with some senior ex-Tories in tow, "we don't even want to Brexit!" say the Remain Alliance - but it would have been an extra tool in her arsenal for making a hung parliament functional, and not one that seems inherently undemocratic.
* unlikely it would have got through bearing in mind that support from other parties was required, but perhaps the dynamics of the situation might have changed by virtue of May taking it so seriously. There were people who thought the deal was basically a good outcome, knew that voting for it would burn some bridges of their own, and realised that since there was no chance of the thing passing that it would be a pointless sacrifice. Potentially a few extra votes might have been in play if it did seem to have a chance.0 -
So what is Johnson's next move if he fails to get 2/3rds for FTPA election?0
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Good grief. You would think such a day would tremble to begin . . .rottenborough said:It is barely believable, but a Cons PM has removed the whip from Ken Clarke.
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That’s good. I like Rory. Ken Clarke should probably have retired years ago. Soames is a bloated twit.williamglenn said:0 -
Yep - of course, that proves it :-DHYUFD said:
No, at the end of June YouGov had it Tories 22%, Brexit Party 22%, Labour 20%, LDs 19%.SouthamObserver said:Maverick genius Dominic Cumming has reunited the Labour Party and split the Conservative Party. In a month. That’s one hell of an achievement
Today YouGov has it Tories 35%, Labour 25%, LDs 16%, Brexit Party 11%.
A swing of 4% from Labour to the Tories, 8% from the LDs to the Tories and 12% from the Brexit Party to the Tories in just over 2 months.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
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While we’re channelling PB lefties favourite Scouse ex PatHYUFD said:
No, at the end of June YouGov had it Tories 22%, Brexit Party 22%, Labour 20%, LDs 19%.SouthamObserver said:Maverick genius Dominic Cumming has reunited the Labour Party and split the Conservative Party. In a month. That’s one hell of an achievement
Today YouGov has it Tories 35%, Labour 25%, LDs 16%, Brexit Party 11%.
A swing of 4% from Labour to the Tories, 8% from the LDs to the Tories and 12% from the Brexit Party to the Tories in just over 2 months.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
“POLLING vs PB ANECDOTE”
Except in his day, polling was the good thing0 -
Not sure he wouldn't win as an Indy in P&B. Very independent bunch up there and they do tend to vote for the person rather than the Party.YBarddCwsc said:
If he was standing for Pb Central, yes he would he win as an Independent.rottenborough said:Surely Rory would have won hos seat as an Indie Tory?
Unfortunately, he is standing for Penrith and the Borders. He knows he'd lose ...
... and that is why he has gone.0 -
Make way for Corbyn to become PM to deliver an extension.PeterMannion said:So what is Johnson's next move if he fails to get 2/3rds for FTPA election?
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That is my point.kle4 said:
They were Tory MPs at the time of the vote, so no, 100% of Tory MPs did not vote with the whip. Some didn't and have now been punished. Whether that is a good or bad thing - I say it is a good thing because the divisions are clearer now - the party was demonstrably not united until after the vote.Philip_Thompson said:
He's united the Conservative Party.SouthamObserver said:Maverick genius Dominic Cumming has reunited the Labour Party and split the Conservative Party. In a month. That’s one hell of an achievement
I think you will find 100% of Conservative MPs voted with the whip tonight. The party is united.
The party was not united before the vote. It is now.
It's an extreme tactic but Boris has united the party.
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Everyone inside a political party has the right to argue their point of view but they should also respect the majority view when it has been reached, especially on a matter of confidence. If you don’t you give up your career in that party. The alternative is the chaos of the last 2 years. It does not provide stable or reliable government.Richard_Nabavi said:
'Bottle' means recklessness. It might just work, for one election. The party will be even more wrecked by it than it currently is, though. Not to mention the country.DavidL said:
And yet he is doing it anyway and rightfully so. If only May had shown that sort of bottle we might not be in this mess.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, quite. Rees-Mogg, Steve Baker, Boris and the rest of the nutjobs should have been sacked by Theresa May. Unfortunately she didn't have the numbers or support to do so, but nor does Boris.Philip_Thompson said:
Doesn't matter how many years of service to the party and country you have if you vote against on a confidence matter does it?Richard_Nabavi said:More rebels will need to be deselected tomorrow, I reckon.
(By 'rebels', I of course mean loyal Conservatives with many years of service to the party and country).0 -
The govt had a majority then. If the Tory rebels even abstain it is enough. Ken Clarke said he could vote for Corbyn as a last resort, Id imagine he has a lot of sway over 21 votes now.Chris said:
Isn't that what we were all agreeing was so problematical, only a few days ago?noneoftheabove said:
Its a moot point, if the PM refuses to get royal consent and the Queen allows this, parliament will install a new PM, who will do it.Chris said:
This blog post by Robert Craig concludes that, unlike the Cooper-Letwin bill, the Benn bill does require Queen's Consent:dyedwoolie said:
Not assent, consent. If a bill affects the royal prerogative it requires royal consent to reach the end of the parliamentary process which must be proposed by a minister. Assent is rubber stamping something that's passed all 3 readings etcBenpointer said:
Doesn't our whole constitution depend on the monarch always assenting to bills passed by Parliament?dyedwoolie said:I think either he will accept the bill in return for GE Oct 15 or if consent is required threaten no consent without GE, against Corbyns No GE without bill
Given the protests already seen over prorogation what will we see if assent is withheld?
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/09/02/proponents-of-the-new-bill-to-stop-no-deal-face-a-significant-dilemma-over-queens-consent/0 -
Scottish Sun.Benpointer said:
That's not a good look for Boris in tomorrow's SunGallowgate said:0 -
Is there anything worse than being expelled..from the whatsapp group?TGOHF said:0 -
This page hasn't been updated yet.
https://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/current-state-of-the-parties/0 -
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Does Jez command a majority in the house? Would be tough.TheScreamingEagles said:
Make way for Corbyn to become PM to deliver an extension.PeterMannion said:So what is Johnson's next move if he fails to get 2/3rds for FTPA election?
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So where’s this Scottish poll?0
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He will call a no-confidence vote in himself... which he will also probably lose.PeterMannion said:So what is Johnson's next move if he fails to get 2/3rds for FTPA election?
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Cons have thrown out one of Thatcher's longest serving ministers.
Quite incredible.0 -
PeterMannion said:
So what is Johnson's next move if he fails to get 2/3rds for FTPA election?
Tell the EU and the voters he will never agree to an extension. Letter or not.0 -
The Sun supports the winners.
That's the SNP in Scotland, and the Tories in England and Wales.
Perfectly consistent front pages.0 -
That will be the wrong kind of northerner.williamglenn said:0 -
Guarantee that the election would be on 14th October.PeterMannion said:So what is Johnson's next move if he fails to get 2/3rds for FTPA election?
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This is a reasonable point
https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1169013835170230273
Compared to May, Jezza looked like a crazed Zealot.
Compared to BoZo and Darth Cummings, he looks like magic Grandpa again.0 -
Presumably, resign. They have "gamed" this over, thousands of time.PeterMannion said:So what is Johnson's next move if he fails to get 2/3rds for FTPA election?
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It matters in that looks like a legal avenue by which the bill can be blocked, if Johnson wishes to do so.kle4 said:
Does it matter? No one seems that concerned by rules or conventions anymore, unless they can weaponise them.Chris said:
This blog post by Robert Craig concludes that, unlike the Cooper-Letwin bill, the Benn bill does require Queen's Consent:dyedwoolie said:
Not assent, consent. If a bill affects the royal prerogative it requires royal consent to reach the end of the parliamentary process which must be proposed by a minister. Assent is rubber stamping something that's passed all 3 readings etcBenpointer said:
Doesn't our whole constitution depend on the monarch always assenting to bills passed by Parliament?dyedwoolie said:I think either he will accept the bill in return for GE Oct 15 or if consent is required threaten no consent without GE, against Corbyns No GE without bill
Given the protests already seen over prorogation what will we see if assent is withheld?
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/09/02/proponents-of-the-new-bill-to-stop-no-deal-face-a-significant-dilemma-over-queens-consent/0 -
The thing is extremists play that game again and again, until the only person pure enough for their cult is themselves, and they are at war against the rest of the world.Philip_Thompson said:
That is my point.kle4 said:
They were Tory MPs at the time of the vote, so no, 100% of Tory MPs did not vote with the whip. Some didn't and have now been punished. Whether that is a good or bad thing - I say it is a good thing because the divisions are clearer now - the party was demonstrably not united until after the vote.Philip_Thompson said:
He's united the Conservative Party.SouthamObserver said:Maverick genius Dominic Cumming has reunited the Labour Party and split the Conservative Party. In a month. That’s one hell of an achievement
I think you will find 100% of Conservative MPs voted with the whip tonight. The party is united.
The party was not united before the vote. It is now.
It's an extreme tactic but Boris has united the party.0 -
Yeah as several others have pointed out. My bad.Pulpstar said:
Scottish Sun.Benpointer said:
That's not a good look for Boris in tomorrow's SunGallowgate said:0 -
Christ. File the second under Yeah, that never happenedwilliamglenn said:0 -
Did that look like a win for Boris to you?Pulpstar said:The Sun supports the winners.
That's the SNP in Scotland, and the Tories in England and Wales.
Perfectly consistent front pages.0 -
So looks as if Corbyn isn't pushing it too far - wisely in my view.
As soon as the Bill goes through, he'll agree to GE.
GE on 15th Oct - Boris can still campaign on basis he won't extend before 31st Oct - and if he gets a majority he can repeal the Bill.
Could in theory be blocked by Lords but in practice won't be - in any case that won't be an issue as far as the GE campaign goes - he'll just say he'll repeal it - and what the Lords may / may not do is too much of an anorak issue to get any traction with the public.1 -
The more things change, the more they stay the same.Xtrain said:Richard Burgon making a tit of himself on BBC as usual.
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It is difficult to take in. He often says that he has stayed the same but his party has changed, but blimey, no longer a Tory?viewcode said:
Good grief. You would think such a day would tremble to begin . . .rottenborough said:It is barely believable, but a Cons PM has removed the whip from Ken Clarke.
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Rory to lead a GONU (or whatever we want to call it)?
Pile in, punters
Night all.0 -
Nah, not interested.Drutt said:
I'll donate £100 to a charity of your choice on the day Scotland leaves the UK, if you send a pound a month to a charity of my choice for every month Scotland is in the UK. Deal?Foxy said:
No, the UK is done. It is just a matter of timing now.Drutt said:
Yeah, just like every other political development for the last seven years.Gallowgate said:
Sounds like the end of the union.Theuniondivvie said:
Listen, I hate to break it to you, but when it comes to matters of sovereignty the Scottish electorate are cuckolds. They voted for Union cuckoldry in 2014 and they voted for supranational cuckoldry in 2016. I can only think of a handful of countries that have eschewed independence when it's been offered at the ballot box, and north of the border you've done it twice in thirty months.
What makes you think that there's any possibility of Scotland voting to leave the UK outside the EU?
Brexit has created such a schism between England and Scotland and England that the Union is over, even if we Remain.
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It is no longer the Conservative party.Philip_Thompson said:
That is my point.kle4 said:
They were Tory MPs at the time of the vote, so no, 100% of Tory MPs did not vote with the whip. Some didn't and have now been punished. Whether that is a good or bad thing - I say it is a good thing because the divisions are clearer now - the party was demonstrably not united until after the vote.Philip_Thompson said:
He's united the Conservative Party.SouthamObserver said:Maverick genius Dominic Cumming has reunited the Labour Party and split the Conservative Party. In a month. That’s one hell of an achievement
I think you will find 100% of Conservative MPs voted with the whip tonight. The party is united.
The party was not united before the vote. It is now.
It's an extreme tactic but Boris has united the party.
They might as well merge with Farage’s mob, if he’d have them.0 -
If he really is Trump then sack Cummings/Bannon.PeterMannion said:So what is Johnson's next move if he fails to get 2/3rds for FTPA election?
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~7 points ahead in the polls of Labour last time I checked.Peter_the_Punter said:
Did that look like a win for Boris to you?Pulpstar said:The Sun supports the winners.
That's the SNP in Scotland, and the Tories in England and Wales.
Perfectly consistent front pages.0 -
Now that will be funny.Benpointer said:
He will call a no-confidence vote in himself... which he will also probably lose.PeterMannion said:So what is Johnson's next move if he fails to get 2/3rds for FTPA election?
Momentarily at least. Part of the problem for a long time has been a government (or leaders) which does not have the confidence of the House(party) but the House refuses so far to actually officially say so, despite defeating it all the time.
Aren't they now going for 15th October?AndyJS said:
Guarantee that the election would be on 14th October.PeterMannion said:So what is Johnson's next move if he fails to get 2/3rds for FTPA election?
Which is a pisser, I'm busy then.0 -
Howd you bet Boris’ Tories vs Jezza’s Labour vote percentage at the next GE?Scott_P said:This is a reasonable point
https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1169013835170230273
Compared to May, Jezza looked like a crazed Zealot.
Compared to BoZo and Darth Cummings, he looks like magic Grandpa again.0 -
Shortly after this the whole of the shop spontaneously started to sing Ode to Joy and there we cries of “Juncker, please save us”.Byronic said:
Christ. File the second under Yeah, that never happenedwilliamglenn said:0 -
I was just thinking if Boris is looking at gaming the system in so many ways, then if Trump loses his 2020 election it will be very difficult to get him to actually leave!rottenborough said:
If he really is Trump then sack Cummings/Bannon.PeterMannion said:So what is Johnson's next move if he fails to get 2/3rds for FTPA election?
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