I think if Johnson had negotiated the precise same deal as May, it'd be through the Commons by now. For all his faults he's clearly a better salesman than May ever was.
Yes, it looks like Boris could sell ice to an eskimo while sadly May could not sell water to a nomad in the desert
Salesmanship counts. Our society runs on people buying stuff they don't want with money they haven't got. Boris is relying on getting the WA through the HoC with a translucent fig leaf. He's a salesman.
Given what happened when he was Mayor of London (water cannon he couldn’t use, capitulation to the RMT, “spaffng” millions on a bridge no one wanted) why does anyone think Boris can negotiate anything? He’s fantastically popular with membership of the Tory Party. The rest of humanity is immune to his charms.
I think if Johnson had negotiated the precise same deal as May, it'd be through the Commons by now. For all his faults he's clearly a better salesman than May ever was.
Yes, it looks like Boris could sell ice to an eskimo while sadly May could not sell water to a nomad in the desert
Salesmanship counts. Our society runs on people buying stuff they don't want with money they haven't got. Boris is relying on getting the WA through the HoC with a translucent fig leaf. He's a salesman.
Given what happened when he was Mayor of London (water cannon he couldn’t use, capitulation to the RMT, “spaffng” millions on a bridge no one wanted) why does anyone think Boris can negotiate anything? He’s fantastically popular with membership of the Tory Party. The rest of humanity is immune to his charms.
9% Tory lead with Yougov and 42% Tory vote with Kantar and Boris trouncing Corbyn as best PM in every poll shows otherwise
So Scotland spends 3.3bln on defense ? That's 5.27% of GDP....that's the highest in the developed world...and a billion more than Israel in 2018...does anyone really believe that? Lol Can unionists not read their fantasy figures before sending them out
Remainers just say 'no alternatives have come to light' the same way they say 'I've never heard a good argument for leaving the EU'. They're being deliberately obtuse because they disagree.
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
A 9% Tory lead with Yougov and a 42% Tory voteshare with Kantar this week suggests otherwise
Surely the Tories have lost your vote given you vehemently disagree with their flagship Brexit policy?
I am fully behind the Brexit policy of trying to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and replace it with a technical solution
That is a reasonable position to hold. I am hopeful but sceptical about such a technical solution but we shall see. It's that or the backstop.
Positive signs from Macron and Merkel this week
So deluded.
I have gone through a journey with HYUFD's posts. Originally I wondered how anyone could be so infatuated with any political leader, let alone one so monumentally unsuited to any leadership, then I started to find them insulting to the intelligence of other PB followers, then I started to find it funny, and now I just feel sorry for him.
It will be me feeling sorry for you on general election night
I'm obviously being very thick here, but this is my understanding:
There was going to be a backstop until we worked out how we could get rid of it.
Boris wants the backstop removed, or it is no deal on 31/10. The EU has agreed, if we can work out how we get rid of it in the next 30 days, then that is ok.
It seems to me that it is the same problem we had before except we only have 30 days now and not approx 79 days.
What am I missing?
The EU being willing to engage.
An agreement can only be reached if both sides are talking. They were refusing to talk about replacements, that's no longer the case. That is what you are missing.
But how have they engaged differently? They have said nothing new. If Boris or May could have come up with a solution to the backstop months ago it would have all been over then. That has always been on the table.
No it wasn't on the table. They were refusing to engage in finding replacements, it takes two to tango. Only when they're willing to compromise is a replacement possible.
You don't understand the concept of compromise do you? It isn't possible with just one party, that is called surrender. Both parties need to engage to have a compromise - the door was opened to that now.
What a load of nonsense and arrogant to boot as you have no idea what I did as a job, which was primarily negotiating and very successful at it as well. That was the purpose of my business since 1995. I mediated between corporation in a particular area.
The EU would have been back at the table instantly if we had proposed a solution to the backstop. Even an iota of an idea would have got them back, but we just said nothing.
For all I know they might compromise, but they haven't said anything different so far.
I think if Johnson had negotiated the precise same deal as May, it'd be through the Commons by now. For all his faults he's clearly a better salesman than May ever was.
Yes, it looks like Boris could sell ice to an eskimo while sadly May could not sell water to a nomad in the desert
Salesmanship counts. Our society runs on people buying stuff they don't want with money they haven't got. Boris is relying on getting the WA through the HoC with a translucent fig leaf. He's a salesman.
Given what happened when he was Mayor of London (water cannon he couldn’t use, capitulation to the RMT, “spaffng” millions on a bridge no one wanted) why does anyone think Boris can negotiate anything? He’s fantastically popular with membership of the Tory Party. The rest of humanity is immune to his charms.
9% Tory lead with Yougov and 42% Tory vote with Kantar and Boris trouncing Corbyn as best PM in every poll shows otherwise
Being more popular than Corbyn is damning with faint praise. His personal popularity is in massively negative territory, far worse than May at this stage.
He got stuffed by Bob Crow and he’ll get stuffed by the EU. He has no record of negotiating anything successfully - quite the opposite.
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
A 9% Tory lead with Yougov and a 42% Tory voteshare with Kantar this week suggests otherwise
Surely the Tories have lost your vote given you vehemently disagree with their flagship Brexit policy?
I am fully behind the Brexit policy of trying to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and replace it with a technical solution
That is a reasonable position to hold. I am hopeful but sceptical about such a technical solution but we shall see. It's that or the backstop.
Positive signs from Macron and Merkel this week
So deluded.
I have gone through a journey with HYUFD's posts. Originally I wondered how anyone could be so infatuated with any political leader, let alone one so monumentally unsuited to any leadership, then I started to find them insulting to the intelligence of other PB followers, then I started to find it funny, and now I just feel sorry for him.
It will be me feeling sorry for you on general election night
Boris: How much is that car? EU: £1000 Boris: I'll give you a fiver EU: No
Long pause
Boris: I want to buy the car for £5 EU: If you can find another £995 you can buy the car?
Boris fans: Progress, they are negotiating.
Well unless you are talking nothing can be gained, so from that point of view it is positive, but it is the only positive. Boris still has the same problem he had originally in that he has to find £995 or get them to concede something that they appear to have no intention of conceding, because the consequences to them of conceding are too high.
It is up to Boris to find £995 or a solution to the backstop.
There are 2 possibilities: He manages it or the EU fold. Neither seem plausible.
Surely there's a third possibility, namely that he accepts the backstop as is, but gets the Telegraph to pretend that he didn't.
Our wild and meandering drive around the country has brought us to Durham, a place neither of us have been before. It seems quite a beautiful place, and we're about to go down to have a meal to celebrate ten happy years of marriage.
So, in a good mood and spirit, I hope everyone has a great bank holiday weekend! Enjoy yourselves, wherever you find yourselves in this beautiful country and world of ours.
Bill Bryson wrote that, on stepping into it, "I unhesitatingly gave Durham Cathedral my vote for the best cathedral on planet Earth", and he's right.
As Muggeridge said "It is better for the soul to visit one Cathedral sixty times, than sixty Cathedrals once"
Not that I hold with that sort of steeplehouse idolatory.
So Scotland spends 3.3bln on defense ? That's 5.27% of GDP....that's the highest in the developed world...and a billion more than Israel in 2018...does anyone really believe that? Lol Can unionists not read their fantasy figures before sending them out
I believe when GERs was first set up by the Tories in the 90s, Ian Lang tried to get the cost of the nukes put on Scotland's expenditure. Old habits die hard it would seem.
Our wild and meandering drive around the country has brought us to Durham, a place neither of us have been before. It seems quite a beautiful place, and we're about to go down to have a meal to celebrate ten happy years of marriage.
So, in a good mood and spirit, I hope everyone has a great bank holiday weekend! Enjoy yourselves, wherever you find yourselves in this beautiful country and world of ours.
Durham cathedral is one of the finest buildings in the country. It would comfortably be in my top ten.
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
A 9% Tory lead with Yougov and a 42% Tory voteshare with Kantar this week suggests otherwise
Surely the Tories have lost your vote given you vehemently disagree with their flagship Brexit policy?
I am fully behind the Brexit policy of trying to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and replace it with a technical solution
That is a reasonable position to hold. I am hopeful but sceptical about such a technical solution but we shall see. It's that or the backstop.
Positive signs from Macron and Merkel this week
So deluded.
I have gone through a journey with HYUFD's posts. Originally I wondered how anyone could be so infatuated with any political leader, let alone one so monumentally unsuited to any leadership, then I started to find them insulting to the intelligence of other PB followers, then I started to find it funny, and now I just feel sorry for him.
@HYUFD strikes me as someone who maybe got high up in the Conservative Association of a decent university, maybe Warwick, Liverpool or Southampton, through absolute loyalty to the party. Having achieved that success by being programmed by the Central Office with a small number of stock phrases (“Diehard Remainers” etc.) he considers that such unbending loyalty and repetition will win him the argument anywhere. As it is, however, he needs to head back to Westworld for an upgrade as his software is currently rendering him less believable as a human.
Lot of circular argument here. Backstop will go if there is an acceptable alternative. There is, as yet, no alternative, let alone an acceptable one. What, exactly has changed?
An acceptable alternative can only come about via negotiations with the EU and Ireland especially. They were refusing to engage, therefore one couldn't come about.
Now they've agreed to engage. That's a change.
For as long as nobody actually wants no deal a face-saving change that permits a transition and the details to be finessed during transition without the threat of an immediate no deal, a risk to peace or the backstop existing works for everyone.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, a transition and talking in the future is good enough for now, even if it isn't as perfect for the EU as the backstop was.
A deal will be reached. Because nobody actually wants no deal.
I thought Boris was refusing to talk unless the backstop was removed? There has been no solution proposed. None. Over 3 years. You can't negotiate a non-proposal.
The EU were refusing to talk about replacing the backstop.
So Boris said he wouldn't talk until they were willing to drop the backstop.
Now they've met and said they're willing to drop the backstop if we can agree an alternative. That's different.
There are lots of proposals that have been made, but it can't be a firm proposal until the two sides talk. The three years are meaningless since May wasted those and Eurofudge always comes about at the last minute.
The solution is obvious: Drop the backstop, agree a transition, start talking about the future in the transition, deal with the future then. Now we just need a face-saving way for the EU to agree to that. We have 30 days to save face for them.
What, exactly, are these proposals which have been made?
Proposals haven't been made yet, that is for the upcoming talks now they've agreed to them.
You have your sequencing backwards for some reason. You engage in talks, then you come up with proposals that both sides can agree to. How do you think otherwise is possible?
Well we’ve got 30 days to come up with something we’ve been unable to do in 3 years.
I think if Johnson had negotiated the precise same deal as May, it'd be through the Commons by now. For all his faults he's clearly a better salesman than May ever was.
Yes, it looks like Boris could sell ice to an eskimo while sadly May could not sell water to a nomad in the desert
Salesmanship counts. Our society runs on people buying stuff they don't want with money they haven't got. Boris is relying on getting the WA through the HoC with a translucent fig leaf. He's a salesman.
Given what happened when he was Mayor of London (water cannon he couldn’t use, capitulation to the RMT, “spaffng” millions on a bridge no one wanted) why does anyone think Boris can negotiate anything? He’s fantastically popular with membership of the Tory Party. The rest of humanity is immune to his charms.
9% Tory lead with Yougov and 42% Tory vote with Kantar and Boris trouncing Corbyn as best PM in every poll shows otherwise
Being more popular than Corbyn is damning with faint praise. His personal popularity is in massively negative territory, far worse than May at this stage.
He got stuffed by Bob Crow and he’ll get stuffed by the EU. He has no record of negotiating anything successfully - quite the opposite.
Being more popular than Corbyn is actually the key thing as every PM who has led the Leader of the Opposition for the last 40 years as preferred PM has been re elected, even if their party has been narrowly behind
Lot of circular argument here. Backstop will go if there is an acceptable alternative. There is, as yet, no alternative, let alone an acceptable one. What, exactly has changed?
An acceptable alternative can only come about via negotiations with the EU and Ireland especially. They were refusing to engage, therefore one couldn't come about.
Now they've agreed to engage. That's a change.
For as long as nobody actually wants no deal a face-saving change that permits a transition and the details to be finessed during transition without the threat of an immediate no deal, a risk to peace or the backstop existing works for everyone.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, a transition and talking in the future is good enough for now, even if it isn't as perfect for the EU as the backstop was.
A deal will be reached. Because nobody actually wants no deal.
I thought Boris was refusing to talk unless the backstop was removed? There has been no solution proposed. None. Over 3 years. You can't negotiate a non-proposal.
The EU were refusing to talk about replacing the backstop.
So Boris said he wouldn't talk until they were willing to drop the backstop.
Now they've met and said they're willing to drop the backstop if we can agree an alternative. That's different.
There are lots of proposals that have been made, but it can't be a firm proposal until the two sides talk. The three years are meaningless since May wasted those and Eurofudge always comes about at the last minute.
The solution is obvious: Drop the backstop, agree a transition, start talking about the future in the transition, deal with the future then. Now we just need a face-saving way for the EU to agree to that. We have 30 days to save face for them.
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
A 9% Tory lead with Yougov and a 42% Tory voteshare with Kantar this week suggests otherwise
Surely the Tories have lost your vote given you vehemently disagree with their flagship Brexit policy?
I am fully behind the Brexit policy of trying to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and replace it with a technical solution
That is a reasonable position to hold. I am hopeful but sceptical about such a technical solution but we shall see. It's that or the backstop.
Positive signs from Macron and Merkel this week
So deluded.
I have gone through a journey with HYUFD's posts. Originally I wondered how anyone could be so infatuated with any political leader, let alone one so monumentally unsuited to any leadership, then I started to find them insulting to the intelligence of other PB followers, then I started to find it funny, and now I just feel sorry for him.
It will be me feeling sorry for you on general election night
Lot of circular argument here. Backstop will go if there is an acceptable alternative. There is, as yet, no alternative, let alone an acceptable one. What, exactly has changed?
An acceptable alternative can only come about via negotiations with the EU and Ireland especially. They were refusing to engage, therefore one couldn't come about.
Now they've agreed to engage. That's a change.
For as long as nobody actually wants no deal a face-saving change that permits a transition and the details to be finessed during transition without the threat of an immediate no deal, a risk to peace or the backstop existing works for everyone.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, a transition and talking in the future is good enough for now, even if it isn't as perfect for the EU as the backstop was.
A deal will be reached. Because nobody actually wants no deal.
I thought Boris was refusing to talk unless the backstop was removed? There has been no solution proposed. None. Over 3 years. You can't negotiate a non-proposal.
The EU were refusing to talk about replacing the backstop.
So Boris said he wouldn't talk until they were willing to drop the backstop.
Now they've met and said they're willing to drop the backstop if we can agree an alternative. That's different.
There are lots of proposals that have been made, but it can't be a firm proposal until the two sides talk. The three years are meaningless since May wasted those and Eurofudge always comes about at the last minute.
The solution is obvious: Drop the backstop, agree a transition, start talking about the future in the transition, deal with the future then. Now we just need a face-saving way for the EU to agree to that. We have 30 days to save face for them.
What, exactly, are these proposals which have been made?
Proposals haven't been made yet, that is for the upcoming talks now they've agreed to them.
You have your sequencing backwards for some reason. You engage in talks, then you come up with proposals that both sides can agree to. How do you think otherwise is possible?
Well we’ve got 30 days to come up with something we’ve been unable to do in 3 years.
I’m not hopeful.
I am.
It doesn't matter how many years we have had, Eurofudge always occurs at the last minute. That is why refusing to change the date was the right move, it didn't matter what the date was, what mattered was that there was a date.
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
A 9% Tory lead with Yougov and a 42% Tory voteshare with Kantar this week suggests otherwise
Surely the Tories have lost your vote given you vehemently disagree with their flagship Brexit policy?
I am fully behind the Brexit policy of trying to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and replace it with a technical solution
That is a reasonable position to hold. I am hopeful but sceptical about such a technical solution but we shall see. It's that or the backstop.
Positive signs from Macron and Merkel this week
So deluded.
I have gone through a journey with HYUFD's posts. Originally I wondered how anyone could be so infatuated with any political leader, let alone one so monumentally unsuited to any leadership, then I started to find them insulting to the intelligence of other PB followers, then I started to find it funny, and now I just feel sorry for him.
@HYUFD strikes me as someone who maybe got high up in the Conservative Association of a decent university, maybe Warwick, Liverpool or Southampton, through absolute loyalty to the party. Having achieved that success by being programmed by the Central Office with a small number of stock phrases (“Diehard Remainers” etc.) he considers that such unbending loyalty and repetition will win him the argument anywhere. As it is, however, he needs to head back to Westworld for an upgrade as his software is currently rendering him less believable as a human.
PB is useful for news, poll and general information but you do not win arguments here as almost everyone has an entrenched position, there are few floating voters on PB.
Plus as any marketer knows short, snappy messages endlessly repeated are the most effective
Lot of circular argument here. Backstop will go if there is an acceptable alternative. There is, as yet, no alternative, let alone an acceptable one. What, exactly has changed?
An acceptable alternative can only come about via negotiations with the EU and Ireland especially. They were refusing to engage, therefore one couldn't come about.
Now they've agreed to engage. That's a change.
For as long as nobody actually wants no deal a face-saving change that permits a transition and the details to be finessed during transition without the threat of an immediate no dea
A deal will be reached. Because nobody actually wants no deal.
I thought Boris was refusing to talk unless the backstop was removed? There has been no solution proposed. None. Over 3 years. You can't negotiate a non-proposal.
The EU were refusing to talk about replacing the backstop.
So Boris said he wouldn't talk until they were willing to drop the backstop.
Now they've met and said they're willing to drop the backstop if we can agree an alternative. That's different.
There are lots of proposals that have been made, but it can't be a firm proposal until the two sides talk. The three years are meaningless since May wasted those and Eurofudge always comes about at the last minute.
The solution is obvious: Drop the backstop, agree a transition, start talking about the future in the transition, deal with the future then. Now we just need a face-saving way for the EU to agree to that. We have 30 days to save face for them.
What, exactly, are these proposals which have been made?
Proposals haven't been made yet, that is for the upcoming talks now they've agreed to them.
You have your sequencing backwards for some reason. You engage in talks, then you come up with proposals that both sides can agree to. How do you think otherwise is possible?
Well we’ve got 30 days to come up with something we’ve been unable to do in 3 years.
I’m not hopeful.
I am.
It doesn't matter how many years we have had, Eurofudge always occurs at the last minute. That is why refusing to change the date was the right move, it didn't matter what the date was, what mattered was that there was a date.
So if we change the date each time the EU will perpetually be about to give in and we can carry on our lives on the verge of victory for ever more.
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
A 9% Tory lead with Yougov and a 42% Tory voteshare with Kantar this week suggests otherwise
Surely the Tories have lost your vote given you vehemently disagree with their flagship Brexit policy?
I am fully behind the Brexit policy of trying to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and replace it with a technical solution
That is a reasonable position to hold. I am hopeful but sceptical about such a technical solution but we shall see. It's that or the backstop.
Positive signs from Macron and Merkel this week
So deluded.
I have gone through a journey with HYUFD's posts. Originally I wondered how anyone could be so infatuated with any political leader, let alone one so monumentally unsuited to any leadership, then I started to find them insulting to the intelligence of other PB followers, then I started to find it funny, and now I just feel sorry for him.
@HYUFD strikes me as someone who maybe got high up in the Conservative Association of a decent university, maybe Warwick, Liverpool or Southampton, through absolute loyalty to the party. Having achieved that success by being programmed by the Central Office with a small number of stock phrases (“Diehard Remainers” etc.) he considers that such unbending loyalty and repetition will win him the argument anywhere. As it is, however, he needs to head back to Westworld for an upgrade as his software is currently rendering him less believable as a human.
I'm waiting for his unbending loyalty to Rory in 3 month's time when he takes over from Bozo...
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
A 9% Tory lead with Yougov and a 42% Tory voteshare with Kantar this week suggests otherwise
Surely the Tories have lost your vote given you vehemently disagree with their flagship Brexit policy?
I am fully behind the Brexit policy of trying to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and replace it with a technical solution
That is a reasonable position to hold. I am hopeful but sceptical about such a technical solution but we shall see. It's that or the backstop.
Positive signs from Macron and Merkel this week
So deluded.
I have gone through a journey with HYUFD's posts. Originally I wondered how anyone could be so infatuated with any political leader, let alone one so monumentally unsuited to any leadership, then I started to find them insulting to the intelligence of other PB followers, then I started to find it funny, and now I just feel sorry for him.
@HYUFD strikes me as someone who maybe got high up in the Conservative Association of a decent university, maybe Warwick, Liverpool or Southampton, through absolute loyalty to the party. Having achieved that success by being programmed by the Central Office with a small number of stock phrases (“Diehard Remainers” etc.) he considers that such unbending loyalty and repetition will win him the argument anywhere. As it is, however, he needs to head back to Westworld for an upgrade as his software is currently rendering him less believable as a human.
Enjoy taking the piss, but HYUFD will have the last laugh when Boris is re-elected with a decent working majority. His political antennae are better tuned than yours.
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
A 9% Tory lead with Yougov and a 42% Tory voteshare with Kantar this week suggests otherwise
Surely the Tories have lost your vote given you vehemently disagree with their flagship Brexit policy?
I am fully behind the Brexit policy of trying to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and replace it with a technical solution
That is a reasonable position to hold. I am hopeful but sceptical about such a technical solution but we shall see. It's that or the backstop.
Positive signs from Macron and Merkel this week
So deluded.
I have gone through a journey with HYUFD's posts. Originally I wondered how anyone could be so infatuated with any political leader, let alone one so monumentally unsuited to any leadership, then I started to find them insulting to the intelligence of other PB followers, then I started to find it funny, and now I just feel sorry for him.
@HYUFD strikes me as someone who maybe got high up in the Conservative Association of a decent university, maybe Warwick, Liverpool or Southampton, through absolute loyalty to the party. Having achieved that success by being programmed by the Central Office with a small number of stock phrases (“Diehard Remainers” etc.) he considers that such unbending loyalty and repetition will win him the argument anywhere. As it is, however, he needs to head back to Westworld for an upgrade as his software is currently rendering him less believable as a human.
PB is useful for news, poll and general information but you do not win arguments here as almost everyone has an entrenched position, there are few floating voters on PB.
Plus as any marketer knows short, snappy messages endlessly repeated are the most effective
You appear determined to test that theory to destruction.
Our wild and meandering drive around the country has brought us to Durham, a place neither of us have been before. It seems quite a beautiful place, and we're about to go down to have a meal to celebrate ten happy years of marriage.
So, in a good mood and spirit, I hope everyone has a great bank holiday weekend! Enjoy yourselves, wherever you find yourselves in this beautiful country and world of ours.
Durham cathedral is one of the finest buildings in the country. It would comfortably be in my top ten.
Agreed. Its stunning.
Optimum time of year to visit Durham - no bloody students.
We used to go down there for a Saturday afternoon on the beer when I was a lad.
All somewhat distracted by a particular barmaid in one of the boozers...
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
A 9% Tory lead with Yougov and a 42% Tory voteshare with Kantar this week suggests otherwise
Surely the Tories have lost your vote given you vehemently disagree with their flagship Brexit policy?
I am fully behind the Brexit policy of trying to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and replace it with a technical solution
That is a reasonable position to hold. I am hopeful but sceptical about such a technical solution but we shall see. It's that or the backstop.
Positive signs from Macron and Merkel this week
So deluded.
I have gone through a journey with HYUFD's posts. Originally I wondered how anyone could be so infatuated with any political leader, let alone one so monumentally unsuited to any leadership, then I started to find them insulting to the intelligence of other PB followers, then I started to find it funny, and now I just feel sorry for him.
@HYUFD strikes me as someone who maybe got high up in the Conservative Association of a decent university, maybe Warwick, Liverpool or Southampton, through absolute ls to head back to Westworld for an upgrade as his software is currently rendering him less believable as a human.
PB is useful for news, poll and general information but you do not win arguments here as almost everyone has an entrenched position, there are few floating voters on PB.
Plus as any marketer knows short, snappy messages endlessly repeated are the most effective
Exactly! People have entrenched views which don't change. Agree absolutely. So if, say, someone at one point believed we should stay in the EU, single market and customs union, they will continue to think that.
Late collapse from Australia. Clearly bowling Archer into the dust is the correct tactic after all.
As @ydoethur would doubtless say, we have left if far too late to start running through the Australian batsmen, and the absolute best we could possibly hope for is now a draw.
Boris: How much is that car? EU: £1000 Boris: I'll give you a fiver EU: No
Long pause
Boris: I want to buy the car for £5 EU: If you can find another £995 you can buy the car?
Boris fans: Progress, they are negotiating.
Well unless you are talking nothing can be gained, so from that point of view it is positive, but it is the only positive. Boris still has the same problem he had originally in that he has to find £995 or get them to concede something that they appear to have no intention of conceding, because the consequences to them of conceding are too high.
It is up to Boris to find £995 or a solution to the backstop.
There are 2 possibilities: He manages it or the EU fold. Neither seem plausible.
May: How much is that car? EU: £1000 but we will only sell it for a £5 deposit, then 60 monthly payments of £27.99 Boris: Don't do that, that's over 25% APR EU: That is the only option.
Long pause
Boris: I want to buy this car for £5 cash. EU: If you can find another £995 you can buy the car?
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
A 9% Tory lead with Yougov and a 42% Tory voteshare with Kantar this week suggests otherwise
Surely the Tories have lost your vote given you vehemently disagree with their flagship Brexit policy?
I am fully behind the Brexit policy of trying to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and replace it with a technical solution
That is a reasonable position to hold. I am hopeful but sceptical about such a technical solution but we shall see. It's that or the backstop.
Positive signs from Macron and Merkel this week
So deluded.
I have gone through a journey with HYUFD's posts. Originally I wondered how anyone could be so infatuated with any political leader, let alone one so monumentally unsuited to any leadership, then I started to find them insulting to the intelligence of other PB followers, then I started to find it funny, and now I just feel sorry for him.
@HYUFD strikes me as someone who maybe got high up in the Conservative Association of a decent university, maybe Warwick, Liverpool or Southampton, through absolute loyalty to the party. Having achieved that success by being programmed by the Central Office with a small number of stock phrases (“Diehard Remainers” etc.) he considers that such unbending loyalty and repetition will win him the argument anywhere. As it is, however, he needs to head back to Westworld for an upgrade as his software is currently rendering him less believable as a human.
I'm waiting for his unbending loyalty to Rory in 3 month's time when he takes over from Bozo...
I will be loyal to Rory with the Tories in 3rd place if not worse if Boris is toppled and Brexit is not delivered
Back before the EU clarified what they meant by the backstop and how unacceptable that was to Britain.
So your premise is that Boris did not know what on earth he was backing? And that's a comment in his defence?
Makes sense - he was told a thousand times that if the WA was not passed we might get no Brexit, and he only noticed and agreed at MV3.
I'm not a Boris fanboy, he makes mistakes.
For example he was wrong to back MV3 and I said so at the time.
I think the December agreement was a trap but had enough constructive ambiguity for everyone to see what they wanted. When it was clarified it was clear how unacceptable it was.
Boris: How much is that car? EU: £1000 Boris: I'll give you a fiver EU: No
Long pause
Boris: I want to buy the car for £5 EU: If you can find another £995 you can buy the car?
Boris fans: Progress, they are negotiating.
Well unless you are talking nothing can be gained, so from that point of view it is positive, but it is the only positive. Boris still has the same problem he had originally in that he has to find £995 or get them to concede something that they appear to have no intention of conceding, because the consequences to them of conceding are too high.
It is up to Boris to find £995 or a solution to the backstop.
There are 2 possibilities: He manages it or the EU fold. Neither seem plausible.
Surely there's a third possibility, namely that he accepts the backstop as is, but gets the Telegraph to pretend that he didn't.
Not going to fly. If he had not been so unequivocal against it or anything like it (after voting for it at least), maybe, but his own members won't let him sell such a ruse.
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
A 9% Tory lead with Yougov and a 42% Tory voteshare with Kantar this week suggests otherwise
Surely the Tories have lost your vote given you vehemently disagree with their flagship Brexit policy?
I am fully behind the Brexit policy of trying to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and replace it with a technical solution
That is a reasonable position to hold. I am hopeful but sceptical about such a technical solution but we shall see. It's that or the backstop.
Positive signs from Macron and Merkel this week
So deluded.
I have gone through a journey with HYUFD's posts. Originally I wondered how anyone could be so infatuated with any political leader, let alone one so monumentally unsuited to any leadership, then I started to find them insulting to the intelligence of other PB followers, then I started to find it funny, and now I just feel sorry for him.
@HYUFD strikes me as someone who maybe got high up in the Conservative Association of a decent university, maybe Warwick, Liverpool or Southampton, through absolute loyalty to the party. Having achieved that success by being programmed by the Central Office with a small number of stock phrases (“Diehard Remainers” etc.) he considers that such unbending loyalty and repetition will win him the argument anywhere. As it is, however, he needs to head back to Westworld for an upgrade as his software is currently rendering him less believable as a human.
Enjoy taking the piss, but HYUFD will have the last laugh when Boris is re-elected with a decent working majority. His political antennae are better tuned than yours.
Late collapse from Australia. Clearly bowling Archer into the dust is the correct tactic after all.
Erm, he's bowled 13 overs in the day, aided and abetted by the weather. The proportion of team overs doesn't matter. (I agree he was probably overbowled a bit at Lord's, especially coming back from a side strain.)
The thing is @HYUFD is that you don’t try and argue any actual points of debate. You just come along and tell us who’s going to win and that we should support them for the sole reason that they are going to win.
Back before the EU clarified what they meant by the backstop and how unacceptable that was to Britain.
So your premise is that Boris did not know what on earth he was backing? And that's a comment in his defence?
Makes sense - he was told a thousand times that if the WA was not passed we might get no Brexit, and he only noticed and agreed at MV3.
I'm not a Boris fanboy, he makes mistakes.
For example he was wrong to back MV3 and I said so at the time.
I think the December agreement was a trap but had enough constructive ambiguity for everyone to see what they wanted. When it was clarified it was clear how unacceptable it was.
Yes, but are you confident about his actions and words now? If he couldn't see what he backed then was wrong how far can we trust his judgement now, especially as he acts like he never backed what he disavows as obviously terrible now?
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
A 9% Tory lead with Yougov and a 42% Tory voteshare with Kantar this week suggests otherwise
Surely the Tories have lost your vote given you vehemently disagree with their flagship Brexit policy?
I am fully behind the Brexit policy of trying to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and replace it with a technical solution
That is a reasonable position to hold. I am hopeful but sceptical about such a technical solution but we shall see. It's that or the backstop.
Positive signs from Macron and Merkel this week
So deluded.
I have gone through a journey with HYUFD's posts. Originally I wondered how anyone could be so infatuated with any political leader, let alone one so monumentally unsuited to any leadership, then I started to find them insulting to the intelligence of other PB followers, then I started to find it funny, and now I just feel sorry for him.
@HYUFD strikes me as someone who maybe got high up in the Conservative Association of a decent university, maybe Warwick, Liverpool or Southampton, through absolute loyalty to the party. Having achieved that success by being programmed by the Central Office with a small number of stock phrases (“Diehard Remainers” etc.) he considers that such unbending loyalty and repetition will win him the argument anywhere. As it is, however, he needs to head back to Westworld for an upgrade as his software is currently rendering him less believable as a human.
I'm waiting for his unbending loyalty to Rory in 3 month's time when he takes over from Bozo...
I will be loyal to Rory with the Tories in 3rd place if not worse if Boris is toppled and Brexit is not delivered
If Boris extends, will you still think he is another Churchill, Thatcher or Blair?
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
And they have agreed to remove the backstop, if a replacement is found. Mission accomplished. This is progress
If we had a solution why would we need to remove the backstop which only kicks in if there isn’t a solution after the transition period?
Because the only way to get a solution is for both sides to compromise and agreeing the backstop removes the EU's incentive to compromise.
A solution is possible if the backstop isn't. Agree the backstop and the solution is no longer available.
Why, oh why, do Leavers assume that the EU wants to trap us in the backstop?
The backstop gives us free access to the single market, it is not in the long-term interests of the EU for us to be there indefinitely.
That's probably true, which makes them not at least entertaining the idea of a really really long time limit on it a bit silly. Yes it would not sway all the doubters, but it might have been enough to get it over the line.
But the details at this point are irrelevant. They don't want us to 'win' by getting changes to the backstop and we don't want them to 'win' by it not being changed, and they are holding out hope we cancel the whole thing.
Back before the EU clarified what they meant by the backstop and how unacceptable that was to Britain.
So your premise is that Boris did not know what on earth he was backing? And that's a comment in his defence?
Makes sense - he was told a thousand times that if the WA was not passed we might get no Brexit, and he only noticed and agreed at MV3.
I'm not a Boris fanboy, he makes mistakes.
For example he was wrong to back MV3 and I said so at the time.
I think the December agreement was a trap but had enough constructive ambiguity for everyone to see what they wanted. When it was clarified it was clear how unacceptable it was.
Yes, but are you confident about his actions and words now? If he couldn't see what he backed then was wrong how far can we trust his judgement now, especially as he acts like he never backed what he disavows as obviously terrible now?
Be fair. Even at the time he voted for MV3 he said it was terrible but the alternative was worse, I didn't agree with him and am glad the vote was lost despite him. But he never backed the deal even at MV3 when he voted for it.
I trust his judgement as much as I trust anyone's, he is a human and fallible same as anyone else. Everyone makes mistakes.
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
And they have agreed to remove the backstop, if a replacement is found. Mission accomplished. This is progress
If we had a solution why would we need to remove the backstop which only kicks in if there isn’t a solution after the transition period?
Because the only way to get a solution is for both sides to compromise and agreeing the backstop removes the EU's incentive to compromise.
A solution is possible if the backstop isn't. Agree the backstop and the solution is no longer available.
That’s ridiculous and suggests that you actually believe the back stop is a conspiracy of the EU to lock us into the customs union. If there is a technical solution which after two yoga’s of transition is proved to work then the back stop doesn't kick in. If it doesn’t work then we need the back stop, they would be mad to remove the backstop as it’s successful removal could be agreed in the next stage.
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
And they have agreed to remove the backstop, if a replacement is found. Mission accomplished. This is progress
If we had a solution why would we need to remove the backstop which only kicks in if there isn’t a solution after the transition period?
Because the only way to get a solution is for both sides to compromise and agreeing the backstop removes the EU's incentive to compromise.
A solution is possible if the backstop isn't. Agree the backstop and the solution is no longer available.
Why, oh why, do Leavers assume that the EU wants to trap us in the backstop?
The backstop gives us free access to the single market, it is not in the long-term interests of the EU for us to be there indefinitely.
Free access but we are a vassal state. Unacceptable and as Selmayr gloated it gives all the power to the EU in the next stage as we will be trapped in the backstop unless we agree to whatever terms they propose.
The EU are trying to guarantee the next stage talks can't fail. The risk of failure is how you ensure a good deal for all parties.
Back before the EU clarified what they meant by the backstop and how unacceptable that was to Britain.
So your premise is that Boris did not know what on earth he was backing? And that's a comment in his defence?
Makes sense - he was told a thousand times that if the WA was not passed we might get no Brexit, and he only noticed and agreed at MV3.
I'm not a Boris fanboy, he makes mistakes.
For example he was wrong to back MV3 and I said so at the time.
I think the December agreement was a trap but had enough constructive ambiguity for everyone to see what they wanted. When it was clarified it was clear how unacceptable it was.
Yes, but are you confident about his actions and words now? If he couldn't see what he backed then was wrong how far can we trust his judgement now, especially as he acts like he never backed what he disavows as obviously terrible now?
Be fair. Even at the time he voted for MV3 he said it was terrible but the alternative was worse, I didn't agree with him and am glad the vote was lost despite him. But he never backed the deal even at MV3 when he voted for it.
I trust his judgement as much as I trust anyone's, he is a human and fallible same as anyone else. Everyone makes mistakes.
I think I'm being pretty fair - yes everyone makes mistakes, and you may not be worshipping at his every utterance, but plenty are and acting as though all the things he says are obvious are indeed obvious, even when it contradicts what he used to say. I get people pinning hopes on him now, frankly I hope he succeeds because the alternatives are worse, but I don't get where the confidence in his plans come from..
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
And they have agreed to remove the backstop, if a replacement is found. Mission accomplished. This is progress
If we had a solution why would we need to remove the backstop which only kicks in if there isn’t a solution after the transition period?
Because the only way to get a solution is for both sides to compromise and agreeing the backstop removes the EU's incentive to compromise.
A solution is possible if the backstop isn't. Agree the backstop and the solution is no longer available.
That’s ridiculous and suggests that you actually believe the back stop is a conspiracy of the EU to lock us into the customs union. If there is a technical solution which after two yoga’s of transition is proved to work then the back stop doesn't kick in. If it doesn’t work then we need the back stop, they would be mad to remove the backstop as it’s successful removal could be agreed in the next stage.
Yes I do believe the backstop is a conspiracy of the EU to lock us into terms of their choosing.
You seem to madly be believing a technical solution is something that actually exists like a solution to a formula. A solution is something we need both parties to CREATE via compromising and only by both parties compromising will it be possible.
I have had a roller coaster day with my granddaughter achieving 5 x A* and 7 straight A's and being best in her school, while a close member of the family is suffering mental health issues.
I pop in to see how things are going and the same almost childish banter stands out with those of us in the middle seeking compromise saying 'A plague on both of your houses'
I still hope that Boris surprises on the upside or that the HOC can agree a way to prevent no deal, but without Corbyn leading any form of government without winning a GE
There have, I’m sure been many examples of translators, especially in oriental cultures, where they soften the meaning of what’s being said so as not to offend. I wish I could quote one or two! Although I think you're coming from the other angle where you think you know what they are talking about but have missed a word and got the wrong end of the stick
Back before the EU clarified what they meant by the backstop and how unacceptable that was to Britain.
So your premise is that Boris did not know what on earth he was backing? And that's a comment in his defence?
Makes sense - he was told a thousand times that if the WA was not passed we might get no Brexit, and he only noticed and agreed at MV3.
I'm not a Boris fanboy, he makes mistakes.
For example he was wrong to back MV3 and I said so at the time.
I think the December agreement was a trap but had enough constructive ambiguity for everyone to see what they wanted. When it was clarified it was clear how unacceptable it was.
Yes, but are you confident about his actions and words now? If he couldn't see what he backed then was wrong how far can we trust his judgement now, especially as he acts like he never backed what he disavows as obviously terrible now?
Be fair. Even at the time he voted for MV3 he said it was terrible but the alternative was worse, I didn't agree with him and am glad the vote was lost despite him. But he never backed the deal even at MV3 when he voted for it.
I trust his judgement as much as I trust anyone's, he is a human and fallible same as anyone else. Everyone makes mistakes.
I think I'm being pretty fair - yes everyone makes mistakes, and you may not be worshipping at his every utterance, but plenty are and acting as though all the things he says are obvious are indeed obvious, even when it contradicts what he used to say. I get people pinning hopes on him now, frankly I hope he succeeds because the alternatives are worse, but I don't get where the confidence in his plans come from..
My confidence in his plans comes from their being my plans. He is doing what I proposed on this very site last year and throughout this year. It is what I think to be logical and now my confidence is being tested by reality we will see if I was right.
Fanboys like HYUFD I don't side with and don't agree with. Don't associate me with that please.
Back before the EU clarified what they meant by the backstop and how unacceptable that was to Britain.
So your premise is that Boris did not know what on earth he was backing? And that's a comment in his defence?
Makes sense - he was told a thousand times that if the WA was not passed we might get no Brexit, and he only noticed and agreed at MV3.
I'm not a Boris fanboy, he makes mistakes.
For example he was wrong to back MV3 and I said so at the time.
I think the December agreement was a trap but had enough constructive ambiguity for everyone to see what they wanted. When it was clarified it was clear how unacceptable it was.
Yes, but are you confident about his actions and words now? If he couldn't see what he backed then was wrong how far can we trust his judgement now, especially as he acts like he never backed what he disavows as obviously terrible now?
Be fair. Even at the time he voted for MV3 he said it was terrible but the alternative was worse, I didn't agree with him and am glad the vote was lost despite him. But he never backed the deal even at MV3 when he voted for it.
I trust his judgement as much as I trust anyone's, he is a human and fallible same as anyone else. Everyone makes mistakes.
I think I'm being pretty fair - yes everyone makes mistakes, and you may not be worshipping at his every utterance, but plenty are and acting as though all the things he says are obvious are indeed obvious, even when it contradicts what he used to say. I get people pinning hopes on him now, frankly I hope he succeeds because the alternatives are worse, but I don't get where the confidence in his plans come from..
My confidence in his plans comes from their being my plans. He is doing what I proposed on this very site last year and throughout this year. It is what I think to be logical and now my confidence is being tested by reality we will see if I was right.
If you’re not right, what do you think we should do?
I have had a roller coaster day with my granddaughter achieving 5 x A* and 7 straight A's and being best in her school, while a close member of the family is suffering mental health issues.
I pop in to see how things are going and the same almost childish banter stands out with those of us in the middle seeking compromise saying 'A plague on both of your houses'
I still hope that Boris surprises on the upside or that the HOC can agree a way to prevent no deal, but without Corbyn leading any form of government without winning a GE
Again congratulations for your granddaughter and sympathies for your family.
FWIW I am seeking compromise, but compromise is not May's deal. I hope I am right and Britain led by Boris can get a compromise we couldn't before and we leave with a deal - and I hope at that point you and others like you feel free to rejoin the Conservatives.
Back before the EU clarified what they meant by the backstop and how unacceptable that was to Britain.
So your premise is that Boris did not know what on earth he was backing? And that's a comment in his defence?
Makes sense - he was told a thousand times that if the WA was not passed we might get no Brexit, and he only noticed and agreed at MV3.
I'm not a Boris fanboy, he makes mistakes.
For example he was wrong to back MV3 and I said so at the time.
I think the December agreement was a trap but had enough constructive ambiguity for everyone to see what they wanted. When it was clarified it was clear how unacceptable it was.
Yes, but are you confident about his actions and words now? If he couldn't see what he backed then was wrong how far can we trust his judgement now, especially as he acts like he never backed what he disavows as obviously terrible now?
Be fair. Even at the time he voted for MV3 he said it was terrible but the alternative was worse, I didn't agree with him and am glad the vote was lost despite him. But he never backed the deal even at MV3 when he voted for it.
I trust his judgement as much as I trust anyone's, he is a human and fallible same as anyone else. Everyone makes mistakes.
I think I'm being pretty fair - yes everyone makes mistakes, and you may not be worshipping at his every utterance, but plenty are and acting as though all the things he says are obvious are indeed obvious, even when it contradicts what he used to say. I get people pinning hopes on him now, frankly I hope he succeeds because the alternatives are worse, but I don't get where the confidence in his plans come from..
My confidence in his plans comes from their being my plans. He is doing what I proposed on this very site last year and throughout this year. It is what I think to be logical and now my confidence is being tested by reality we will see if I was right.
If you’re not right, what do you think we should do?
With regret, leave without a deal while holding out the olive branch of a backstopless deal in the future.
@Big_G_NorthWales congratulations on your granddaughter's results and condolences about your family member's struggles. I too have suffered from poor mental health in the past so I know how unconditional support is key.
Regarding your political point, it's impossible to compromise now. The debate has been skewed, by your hero Theresa May I might add, into an 'us' vs 'them'. They talk about how the EU should compromise and yet make no compromise at home.
This is a PM with no mandate, trashing our reputation abroad, seeking the hardest of Brexit that has no popular support.
I have had a roller coaster day with my granddaughter achieving 5 x A* and 7 straight A's and being best in her school, while a close member of the family is suffering mental health issues.
I pop in to see how things are going and the same almost childish banter stands out with those of us in the middle seeking compromise saying 'A plague on both of your houses'
I still hope that Boris surprises on the upside or that the HOC can agree a way to prevent no deal, but without Corbyn leading any form of government without winning a GE
Again congratulations for your granddaughter and sympathies for your family.
FWIW I am seeking compromise, but compromise is not May's deal. I hope I am right and Britain led by Boris can get a compromise we couldn't before and we leave with a deal - and I hope at that point you and others like you feel free to rejoin the Conservatives.
Our goal is the same, though the methods differ.
Notwithstanding my threat to resign I still retain my membership as I am hopeful a way will be found through this.
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
And they have agreed to remove the backstop, if a replacement is found. Mission accomplished. This is progress
If we had a solution why would we need to remove the backstop which only kicks in if there isn’t a solution after the transition period?
Because the only way to get a solution is for both sides to compromise and agreeing the backstop removes the EU's incentive to compromise.
A solution is possible if the backstop isn't. Agree the backstop and the solution is no longer available.
That’s ridiculous and suggests that you actually believe the back stop is a conspiracy of the EU to lock us into the customs union. If there is a technical solution which after two yoga’s of transition is proved to work then the back stop doesn't kick in. If it doesn’t work then we need the back stop, they would be mad to remove the backstop as it’s successful removal could be agreed in the next stage.
Yes I do believe the backstop is a conspiracy of the EU to lock us into terms of their choosing.
You seem to madly be believing a technical solution is something that actually exists like a solution to a formula. A solution is something we need both parties to CREATE via compromising and only by both parties compromising will it be possible.
Well if you believe the conspiracy theory it’s not worth debating with you I await, when Johnson agrees a border in the Irish Sea you demanding NI MEPs like you used to do.
There have, I’m sure been many examples of translators, especially in oriental cultures, where they soften the meaning of what’s being said so as not to offend. I wish I could quote one or two!
Yes, it’s a seriously difficult and underrated job doing simultaneous translation, it’s something my wife does occasionally and it’s quite stressful for the translator that they don’t make a mistake.
There have, I’m sure been many examples of translators, especially in oriental cultures, where they soften the meaning of what’s being said so as not to offend.
I'm sure that's true, though I'm also sure that softening the meaning so as not to offend has probably cause more problems in the long run in some situations, where the sides don't know how bloody cross the other is for example!
@Big_G_NorthWales congratulations on your granddaughter's results and condolences about your family member's struggles. I too have suffered from poor mental health in the past so I know how unconditional support is key.
Regarding your political point, it's impossible to compromise now. The debate has been skewed, by your hero Theresa May I might add, into an 'us' vs 'them'. They talk about how the EU should compromise and yet make no compromise at home.
This is a PM with no mandate, trashing our reputation abroad, seeking the hardest of Brexit that has no popular support.
Where do you expect me to compromise?
This is a PM seeking a deal, a different deal but a deal nonetheless. Howabout supporting that ambition?
So Scotland spends 3.3bln on defense ? That's 5.27% of GDP....that's the highest in the developed world...and a billion more than Israel in 2018...does anyone really believe that? Lol Can unionists not read their fantasy figures before sending them out
I believe when GERs was first set up by the Tories in the 90s, Ian Lang tried to get the cost of the nukes put on Scotland's expenditure. Old habits die hard it would seem.
Not sure about the veracity of Malc's figures, but the UK armed forces have a not insignificant footprint in Scotland, most of which will go South in the event of Indy. And I can't see RUK building its warships in Rosyth in future either. That will be goodbye to a lot of well paid jobs and investment.
@Big_G_NorthWales congratulations on your granddaughter's results and condolences about your family member's struggles. I too have suffered from poor mental health in the past so I know how unconditional support is key.
Regarding your political point, it's impossible to compromise now. The debate has been skewed, by your hero Theresa May I might add, into an 'us' vs 'them'. They talk about how the EU should compromise and yet make no compromise at home.
This is a PM with no mandate, trashing our reputation abroad, seeking the hardest of Brexit that has no popular support.
Where do you expect me to compromise?
Thank you for your kind comments
However TM is not and never has been my hero. I believe she attempted a sensible compromise which I understand in the cross party talks is under consideration to be returned to the HOC
Boris is not my choice but to date he seems to be doing ok and we need to give everyone a chance but if it all fails and on the 1st November Boris has taken us out with no deal, my resignation from the party will be confirmed
@Big_G_NorthWales congratulations on your granddaughter's results and condolences about your family member's struggles. I too have suffered from poor mental health in the past so I know how unconditional support is key.
Regarding your political point, it's impossible to compromise now. The debate has been skewed, by your hero Theresa May I might add, into an 'us' vs 'them'. They talk about how the EU should compromise and yet make no compromise at home.
This is a PM with no mandate, trashing our reputation abroad, seeking the hardest of Brexit that has no popular support.
Where do you expect me to compromise?
This is a PM seeking a deal, a different deal but a deal nonetheless. Howabout supporting that ambition?
Because the Brexit is getting harder, not softer. That is no compromise.
There have, I’m sure been many examples of translators, especially in oriental cultures, where they soften the meaning of what’s being said so as not to offend.
I'm sure that's true, though I'm also sure that softening the meaning so as not to offend has probably cause more problems in the long run in some situations, where the sides don't know how bloody cross the other is for example!
Thinking about it it came from a novel about the US and China being in the early stages of a trade war that escalated to a full scale invasion of Taiwan obviously beyond the realms of fantasy but....
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
And they have agreed to remove the backstop, if a replacement is found. Mission accomplished. This is progress
If we had a solution why would we need to remove the backstop which only kicks in if there isn’t a solution after the transition period?
Because the only way to get a solution is for both sides to compromise and agreeing the backstop removes the EU's incentive to compromise.
A solution is possible if the backstop isn't. Agree the backstop and the solution is no longer available.
That’s ridiculous and suggests that you actually believe the back stop is a conspiracy of the EU to lock us into the customs union. If there is a technical solution which after two yoga’s of transition is proved to work then the back stop doesn't kick in. If it doesn’t work then we need the back stop, they would be mad to remove the backstop as it’s successful removal could be agreed in the next stage.
Yes I do believe the backstop is a conspiracy of the EU to lock us into terms of their choosing.
You seem to madly be believing a technical solution is something that actually exists like a solution to a formula. A solution is something we need both parties to CREATE via compromising and only by both parties compromising will it be possible.
Well if you believe the conspiracy theory it’s not worth debating with you I await, when Johnson agrees a border in the Irish Sea you demanding NI MEPs like you used to do.
Its not a conspiracy theory, its logic. It is what their own side have said in their own words.
Absolutely if Johnson agrees it I will oppose it.
And my suggestion that NI gets MEPs and Arlene Foster goes onto the European Council along with full veto powers was always tongue planted firmly in cheek. But it would have resolved the democratic deficit.
There have, I’m sure been many examples of translators, especially in oriental cultures, where they soften the meaning of what’s being said so as not to offend. I wish I could quote one or two! Although I think you're coming from the other angle where you think you know what they are talking about but have missed a word and got the wrong end of the stick
Quite right, my brother is fluent in arabic, but always uses a professional interpreter when negotiating, as there is much less risk of misunderstandings. On a social level, of course it is different.
There have, I’m sure been many examples of translators, especially in oriental cultures, where they soften the meaning of what’s being said so as not to offend. I wish I could quote one or two! Although I think you're coming from the other angle where you think you know what they are talking about but have missed a word and got the wrong end of the stick
Quite right, my brother is fluent in arabic, but always uses a professional interpreter when negotiating, as there is much less risk of misunderstandings. On a social level, of course it is different.
Fair play to your brother, Arabic is a very difficult language to learn. How does one translate ‘Insh’Allah”?
So Scotland spends 3.3bln on defense ? That's 5.27% of GDP....that's the highest in the developed world...and a billion more than Israel in 2018...does anyone really believe that? Lol Can unionists not read their fantasy figures before sending them out
I believe when GERs was first set up by the Tories in the 90s, Ian Lang tried to get the cost of the nukes put on Scotland's expenditure. Old habits die hard it would seem.
Not sure about the veracity of Malc's figures, but the UK armed forces have a not insignificant footprint in Scotland, most of which will go South in the event of Indy. And I can't see RUK building its warships in Rosyth in future either. That will be goodbye to a lot of well paid jobs and investment.
The ships are to be built on the Clyde I believe but your point about UK forces imprint in Scotland is valid, as is the end of UK Naval ship building if Scotland goes independent
@Big_G_NorthWales congratulations on your granddaughter's results and condolences about your family member's struggles. I too have suffered from poor mental health in the past so I know how unconditional support is key.
Regarding your political point, it's impossible to compromise now. The debate has been skewed, by your hero Theresa May I might add, into an 'us' vs 'them'. They talk about how the EU should compromise and yet make no compromise at home.
This is a PM with no mandate, trashing our reputation abroad, seeking the hardest of Brexit that has no popular support.
Where do you expect me to compromise?
This is a PM seeking a deal, a different deal but a deal nonetheless. Howabout supporting that ambition?
Because the Brexit is getting harder, not softer. That is no compromise.
The baseline is no deal, that is what Parliament voted as a default when it invoked Article 50.
Our wild and meandering drive around the country has brought us to Durham, a place neither of us have been before. It seems quite a beautiful place, and we're about to go down to have a meal to celebrate ten happy years of marriage.
So, in a good mood and spirit, I hope everyone has a great bank holiday weekend! Enjoy yourselves, wherever you find yourselves in this beautiful country and world of ours.
Durham cathedral is one of the finest buildings in the country. It would comfortably be in my top ten.
@Big_G_NorthWales congratulations on your granddaughter's results and condolences about your family member's struggles. I too have suffered from poor mental health in the past so I know how unconditional support is key.
Regarding your political point, it's impossible to compromise now. The debate has been skewed, by your hero Theresa May I might add, into an 'us' vs 'them'. They talk about how the EU should compromise and yet make no compromise at home.
This is a PM with no mandate, trashing our reputation abroad, seeking the hardest of Brexit that has no popular support.
Where do you expect me to compromise?
This is a PM seeking a deal, a different deal but a deal nonetheless. Howabout supporting that ambition?
Because the Brexit is getting harder, not softer. That is no compromise.
The baseline is no deal, that is what Parliament voted as a default when it invoked Article 50.
Any deal is a compromise compared to that.
The compromise seems to be the EU giving the UK what it wants to stop the UK doing itself immense harm. The EU has worked this out, even if you haven't.
The thing is @HYUFD is that you don’t try and argue any actual points of debate. You just come along and tell us who’s going to win and that we should support them for the sole reason that they are going to win.
I don't have the time nor the inclination to spend hours debating the fine points of x with people who will never agree with me anyway
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
A 9% Tory lead with Yougov and a 42% Tory voteshare with Kantar this week suggests otherwise
Surely the Tories have lost your vote given you vehemently disagree with their flagship Brexit policy?
I am fully behind the Brexit policy of trying to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and replace it with a technical solution
That is a reasonable position to hold. I am hopeful but sceptical about such a technical solution but we shall see. It's that or the backstop.
Positive signs from Macron and Merkel this week
So deluded.
I have gone through a journey with HYUFD's posts. Originally I wondered how anyone could be so infatuated with any political leader, let alone one so monumentally unsuited to any leadership, then I started to find them insulting to the intelligence of other PB followers, then I started to find it funny, and now I just feel sorry for him.
@HYUFD strikes me as someone who maybe got high rently rendering him less believable as a human.
I'm waiting for his unbending loyalty to Rory in 3 month's time when he takes over from Bozo...
I will be loyal to Rory with the Tories in 3rd place if not worse if Boris is toppled and Brexit is not delivered
If Boris extends, will you still think he is another Churchill, Thatcher or Blair?
He won't, as he knows if he or any other Tory leader has not delivered Brexit by the next general election and extended past October 31st that will be the end of the Tory Party as the main party of the right in the UK with the Brexit Party replacing it
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
A 9% Tory lead with Yougov and a 42% Tory voteshare with Kantar this week suggests otherwise
Surely the Tories have lost your vote given you vehemently disagree with their flagship Brexit policy?
I am fully behind the Brexit policy of trying to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and replace it with a technical solution
That is a reasonable position to hold. I am hopeful but sceptical about such a technical solution but we shall see. It's that or the backstop.
Positive signs from Macron and Merkel this week
So deluded.
I have gone through a journey with HYUFD's posts. Originally I wondered how anyone could be so infatuated with any political leader, let alone one so monumentally unsuited to any leadership, then I started to find them insulting to the intelligence of other PB followers, then I started to find it funny, and now I just feel sorry for him.
@HYUFD strikes me as someone who maybe got high up in the Conservative Association of a decent university, maybe Warwick, Liverpool or Southampton, through absolute loyalty to the party. Having achieved that success by being programmed by the Central Office with a small number of stock phrases (“Diehard Remainers” etc.) he considers that such unbending loyalty and repetition will win him the argument anywhere. As it is, however, he needs to head back to Westworld for an upgrade as his software is currently rendering him less believable as a human.
Enjoy taking the piss, but HYUFD will have the last laugh when Boris is re-elected with a decent working majority. His political antennae are better tuned than yours.
You might want to look back and see what he was predicting when May called her election a couple of years back. They haven't aged well
The thing is @HYUFD is that you don’t try and argue any actual points of debate. You just come along and tell us who’s going to win and that we should support them for the sole reason that they are going to win.
I don't have the time nor the inclination to spend hours debating the fine points of x with people who will never agree with me anyway
There have, I’m sure been many examples of translators, especially in oriental cultures, where they soften the meaning of what’s being said so as not to offend. I wish I could quote one or two! Although I think you're coming from the other angle where you think you know what they are talking about but have missed a word and got the wrong end of the stick
Quite right, my brother is fluent in arabic, but always uses a professional interpreter when negotiating, as there is much less risk of misunderstandings. On a social level, of course it is different.
Fair play to your brother, Arabic is a very difficult language to learn. How does one translate ‘Insh’Allah”?
A very interesting question, I shall translate it for you Insh'Allah
It is a word that I find very useful in Leicester when explaining treatment:
Take these pills, and X will improve, Insh'Allah...
"This is why the backstop—a legal guarantee that whatever happens there will be no hard border in Northern Ireland—is seen as necessary, both by the EU and Theresa May. There are technical solutions and ideas out there, and they can certainly help. No one could question the logic of making border procedures less intrusive and more efficient. But, as things stand, they simply cannot achieve what is required of them: checks of some kind remain an inevitability. Which brings us to the Malthouse Compromise. This suggests redesigning the backstop in a way that would be compatible with a future, unfettered UK-EU free trade agreement. The trouble is that this plan, too, doesn’t even aim to avoid all checks and controls, it just moves them inland from the borderline. So the basic dilemma remains: how do you maintain a completely open border between two legal jurisdictions? The only solution found to date—after many months of careful negotiation in Brussels, if not in Westminster—is the backstop." https://ukandeu.ac.uk/where-did-the-backstop-come-from/
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
Boris himself said he wouldn’t meet any EU leaders until they had agreed to remove the backstop.
He’s just making himself look even more of a fool than he already is.
A 9% Tory lead with Yougov and a 42% Tory voteshare with Kantar this week suggests otherwise
Surely the Tories have lost your vote given you vehemently disagree with their flagship Brexit policy?
I am fully behind the Brexit policy of trying to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and replace it with a technical solution
That is a reasonable position to hold. I am hopeful but sceptical about such a technical solution but we shall see. It's that or the backstop.
Positive signs from Macron and Merkel this week
So deluded.
I have gone through a journey with HYUFD's posts. Originally I wondered how anyone could be so infatuated with any political leader, let alone one so monumentally unsuited to any leadership, then I started to find them insulting to the intelligence of other PB followers, then I started to find it funny, and now I just feel sorry for him.
@HYUFD strikes me as someone who tly rendering him less believable as a human.
Enjoy taking the piss, but HYUFD will have the last laugh when Boris is re-elected with a decent working majority. His political antennae are better tuned than yours.
You might want to look back and see what he was predicting when May called her election a couple of years back. They haven't aged well
Actually a few days before polling day I reported attending an event at CCHQ with Jim Messina where he reported a higher number of undecideds than any election he had ever been in.
I also never supported the disastrous dementia tax which went down like a lead balloon on the doorsteps as soon as it was announced
As the trial drew to a close the prosecution was criticised for failing to disclose evidence until the end of the case.
It was revealed another video of the model being burned was taken by someone else and posted to a separate WhatsApp group, which the defence claimed had not been disclosed to them.
Chief Magistrate Emma Arbuthnot said: "I cannot be sure the video relied on by the Crown is the one taken by the defendant." Ms Arbuthnot said: "I am just appalled at the disclosure in this case."
"This is why the backstop—a legal guarantee that whatever happens there will be no hard border in Northern Ireland—is seen as necessary, both by the EU and Theresa May. There are technical solutions and ideas out there, and they can certainly help. No one could question the logic of making border procedures less intrusive and more efficient. But, as things stand, they simply cannot achieve what is required of them: checks of some kind remain an inevitability. Which brings us to the Malthouse Compromise. This suggests redesigning the backstop in a way that would be compatible with a future, unfettered UK-EU free trade agreement. The trouble is that this plan, too, doesn’t even aim to avoid all checks and controls, it just moves them inland from the borderline. So the basic dilemma remains: how do you maintain a completely open border between two legal jurisdictions? The only solution found to date—after many months of careful negotiation in Brussels, if not in Westminster—is the backstop." https://ukandeu.ac.uk/where-did-the-backstop-come-from/
Yes, fairly obviously, a CU and regulatory alignment means no border, but any significant divergence does, then we are merely discussing how intrusive that needs to be.
The fact Boris has had to go crawling to Berlin and Paris is pretty humiliating.
Quite funny how the no deal cult are celebrating the humiliation.
I wonder what mark Boris will get in his homework for Ms Merkel and Mr Macron.
I’m guessing an E.
He had to go crawling? There may have been negotiation, but what has he conceded?
A 9% Tory lead with Yougov and a 42% Tory voteshare with Kantar this week suggests otherwise
Surely the Tories have lost your vote given you vehemently disagree with their flagship Brexit policy?
I am fully behind the Brexit policy of trying to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and replace it with a technical solution
That is a reasonable position to hold. I am hopeful but sceptical about such a technical solution but we shall see. It's that or the backstop.
Positive signs from Macron and Merkel this week
So deluded.
I have gone through a journey with HYUFD's posts. Originally I wondered how anyone could be so infatuated with any political leader, let alone one so monumentally unsuited to any leadership, then I started to find them insulting to the intelligence of other PB followers, then I started to find it funny, and now I just feel sorry for him.
@HYUFD strikes me as someone who maybe got high up in the Conservative Association of a decent university, maybe Warwick, Liverpool or Southampton, through absolute loyalty to the party. Having achieved that success by being programmed by the Central Office with a small number of stock phrases (“Diehard Remainers” etc.) he considers that such unbending loyalty and repetition will win him the argument anywhere. As it is, however, he needs to head back to Westworld for an upgrade as his software is currently rendering him less believable as a human.
Enjoy taking the piss, but HYUFD will have the last laugh when Boris is re-elected with a decent working majority. His political antennae are better tuned than yours.
You might want to look back and see what he was predicting when May called her election a couple of years back. They haven't aged well
What about anyone who is more concerned about the future of the country than the relative success or otherwise of the political parties in a General Election?
The thing is @HYUFD is that you don’t try and argue any actual points of debate. You just come along and tell us who’s going to win and that we should support them for the sole reason that they are going to win.
I don't have the time nor the inclination to spend hours debating the fine points of x with people who will never agree with me anyway
Well you very clearly do have the time.
To be fair he makes no effort whatsoever at debating. Given his statement earlier in the thread about “simple messages, endlessly repeated” it is clear that he is simply operating a marketing operation on behalf of the Conservative Oarty. He might even be freelance!
He won't, as he knows if he or any other Tory leader has not delivered Brexit by the next general election and extended past October 31st that will be the end of the Tory Party as the main party of the right in the UK with the Brexit Party replacing it
You are - oddly - underestimating the Great Man.
He knows that his path to a long and successful premiership goes via passing a Brexit deal and winning a general election off the back of that.
This will require an extension into 2020 and such is his plan.
@ HYUFD What have Messin'a views on the number of undecided or your views on the dementia tax got to do with it? I was talking about your predictions of the outcome when May called the election. Care to remind us?
Comments
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-49431958
Remainers just say 'no alternatives have come to light' the same way they say 'I've never heard a good argument for leaving the EU'. They're being deliberately obtuse because they disagree.
The EU would have been back at the table instantly if we had proposed a solution to the backstop. Even an iota of an idea would have got them back, but we just said nothing.
For all I know they might compromise, but they haven't said anything different so far.
He got stuffed by Bob Crow and he’ll get stuffed by the EU. He has no record of negotiating anything successfully - quite the opposite.
Not that I hold with that sort of steeplehouse idolatory.
Happy anniversary!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=yCFB2akLh4s
"A Giant Volcano Could End Human Life on Earth as We Know It"
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/opinion/supervolcano-yellowstone.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/boris-johnson-is-asking-for-the-impossible-over-the-backstop/
Goodness knows the finger-wagging the US will endure for the ensuing carbon emissions.
Anyway, I must be off.
Je parle seulement francais quand sur ma vacances
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7383133/Prince-William-wife-Kate-Middleton-children-seen-boarding-budget-flight-Scotland.html
It doesn't matter how many years we have had, Eurofudge always occurs at the last minute. That is why refusing to change the date was the right move, it didn't matter what the date was, what mattered was that there was a date.
Plus as any marketer knows short, snappy messages endlessly repeated are the most effective
I'm in.
We used to go down there for a Saturday afternoon on the beer when I was a lad.
All somewhat distracted by a particular barmaid in one of the boozers...
EU: £1000 but we will only sell it for a £5 deposit, then 60 monthly payments of £27.99
Boris: Don't do that, that's over 25% APR
EU: That is the only option.
Long pause
Boris: I want to buy this car for £5 cash.
EU: If you can find another £995 you can buy the car?
Makes sense - he was told a thousand times that if the WA was not passed we might get no Brexit, and he only noticed and agreed at MV3.
For example he was wrong to back MV3 and I said so at the time.
I think the December agreement was a trap but had enough constructive ambiguity for everyone to see what they wanted. When it was clarified it was clear how unacceptable it was.
So?
A solution is possible if the backstop isn't. Agree the backstop and the solution is no longer available.
The ‘remain media’, accepting for a moment so reductive a description, call him a mendacious fool.
That he has had a privileged upbringing, and a decent-ish education, is beside the point.
And there is a whole nation across the Channel who readily demonstrate it is possible to be deeply prejudiced, and speak French.
Macron will attest to this more than most leaders.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/02/lost-in-translation-macron-thanks-australian-pms-delicious-wife
The backstop gives us free access to the single market, it is not in the long-term interests of the EU for us to be there indefinitely.
But the details at this point are irrelevant. They don't want us to 'win' by getting changes to the backstop and we don't want them to 'win' by it not being changed, and they are holding out hope we cancel the whole thing.
I trust his judgement as much as I trust anyone's, he is a human and fallible same as anyone else. Everyone makes mistakes.
The EU are trying to guarantee the next stage talks can't fail. The risk of failure is how you ensure a good deal for all parties.
You seem to madly be believing a technical solution is something that actually exists like a solution to a formula. A solution is something we need both parties to CREATE via compromising and only by both parties compromising will it be possible.
I pop in to see how things are going and the same almost childish banter stands out with those of us in the middle seeking compromise saying 'A plague on both of your houses'
I still hope that Boris surprises on the upside or that the HOC can agree a way to prevent no deal, but without Corbyn leading any form of government without winning a GE
Although I think you're coming from the other angle where you think you know what they are talking about but have missed a word and got the wrong end of the stick
Fanboys like HYUFD I don't side with and don't agree with. Don't associate me with that please.
FWIW I am seeking compromise, but compromise is not May's deal. I hope I am right and Britain led by Boris can get a compromise we couldn't before and we leave with a deal - and I hope at that point you and others like you feel free to rejoin the Conservatives.
Our goal is the same, though the methods differ.
Regarding your political point, it's impossible to compromise now. The debate has been skewed, by your hero Theresa May I might add, into an 'us' vs 'them'. They talk about how the EU should compromise and yet make no compromise at home.
This is a PM with no mandate, trashing our reputation abroad, seeking the hardest of Brexit that has no popular support.
Where do you expect me to compromise?
Certain Asian cultures and the nature of giving offence is a problem in many industries, most notably aviation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214
However TM is not and never has been my hero. I believe she attempted a sensible compromise which I understand in the cross party talks is under consideration to be returned to the HOC
Boris is not my choice but to date he seems to be doing ok and we need to give everyone a chance but if it all fails and on the 1st November Boris has taken us out with no deal, my resignation from the party will be confirmed
Absolutely if Johnson agrees it I will oppose it.
And my suggestion that NI gets MEPs and Arlene Foster goes onto the European Council along with full veto powers was always tongue planted firmly in cheek. But it would have resolved the democratic deficit.
Any deal is a compromise compared to that.
A very interesting question, I shall translate it for you Insh'Allah
It is a word that I find very useful in Leicester when explaining treatment:
Take these pills, and X will improve, Insh'Allah...
"This is why the backstop—a legal guarantee that whatever happens there will be no hard border in Northern Ireland—is seen as necessary, both by the EU and Theresa May. There are technical solutions and ideas out there, and they can certainly help.
No one could question the logic of making border procedures less intrusive and more efficient. But, as things stand, they simply cannot achieve what is required of them: checks of some kind remain an inevitability.
Which brings us to the Malthouse Compromise. This suggests redesigning the backstop in a way that would be compatible with a future, unfettered UK-EU free trade agreement.
The trouble is that this plan, too, doesn’t even aim to avoid all checks and controls, it just moves them inland from the borderline. So the basic dilemma remains: how do you maintain a completely open border between two legal jurisdictions?
The only solution found to date—after many months of careful negotiation in Brussels, if not in Westminster—is the backstop."
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/where-did-the-backstop-come-from/
I also never supported the disastrous dementia tax which went down like a lead balloon on the doorsteps as soon as it was announced
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49435117
As the trial drew to a close the prosecution was criticised for failing to disclose evidence until the end of the case.
It was revealed another video of the model being burned was taken by someone else and posted to a separate WhatsApp group, which the defence claimed had not been disclosed to them.
Chief Magistrate Emma Arbuthnot said: "I cannot be sure the video relied on by the Crown is the one taken by the defendant." Ms Arbuthnot said: "I am just appalled at the disclosure in this case."
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1164410803132477440?s=19
He knows that his path to a long and successful premiership goes via passing a Brexit deal and winning a general election off the back of that.
This will require an extension into 2020 and such is his plan.
I think he'll pull it off.
@ HYUFD
What have Messin'a views on the number of undecided or your views on the dementia tax got to do with it? I was talking about your predictions of the outcome when May called the election. Care to remind us?