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  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    As @NickPalmer has rightly pointed out, your approach is Trotskyist. And no Brit would want to visit such destruction on their own country.

    I don't believe you are British. Good choice of British-sounding posting name though.

    Ha! I've been here for well over a decade now.

    I don't believe there will be destruction I believe there will be compromise. There will only be compromise though if it is necessary.
    You are playing with fire in a way that no actual Brit ever would.
    Silly expression. Fire is fun to play with. Setting fires is the best part of camping.
    Hmm that's as maybe but give a child a box of matches and a can of petrol and the fun might diminish somewhat.

    At least you are not disagreeing with my comment.
    I think some fire is necessary to find a solution yes.

    I disagree with fire being bad and I disagree with the idea no Brit would support it. Controlled burn backs are better than wildfires.

    A solution is easily available but until both sides have 'a fire in their belly' to reach one it won't be found. Necessity is the mother of invention.

    There will be no return to the Troubles. There will be a compromise found instead but it will only be found after we exit without a backstop and has to be found.
    A lot of crossed fingers and wishful thinking in there
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Though only 1 in 6 Unionists in Northern Ireland back the backstop in the same poll
    NI's populace doesn't consist solely of Unionists...
    Its largest county, Antrim, is still 2/3 Unionist
    NI voted to Remain, remember?
    Antrim voted Leave
    And? Antrim is just one county. Are you proposing re-partition? Will the Nationalist parts of Antrim (eg. The Glens) be allowed to opt out?
    If nationalists in Scotland and Catholic parts of Northern Ireland can threaten to leave the UK because of a referendum result so can Protestant parts of Northern Ireland refuse to become parts of the Republic of Ireland because of a referendum result

    Does that mean me and 16 million other Remain voters can just refuse to the leave the EU? Brilliant! I think we have found a solution to Brexit!

    London remaining in the EU would be a practical option.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see Malc was out and about yesterday....

    https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1163015413795627008?s=20

    As I would expect I see you support the unionist Nazis
    Nice to see the Nats “rise above it” in their usual “Civic Nationalism” style......
    I see you don't deny it, tip - when you live in a glass house do not throw the first stone. Your poor attempt to traduce me says it all yet again. The xenophobic unionist You are well personified by that picture even if it is not you it certainly portrays your persona very accurately.
    C'mon malc, you've got to admire Unionists' heroic attempts to avert their eyes from their fellow travellers (UKIP, NF, BNP, Farage, Coburn, Britain First, Griffin etc). There was even an old Better Together favourite out yesterday, Aberdeen's best known National Front rep.

    https://twitter.com/gdog2010_john/status/1162749041144410113?s=20
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Though only 1 in 6 Unionists in Northern Ireland back the backstop in the same poll
    NI's populace doesn't consist solely of Unionists...
    Its largest county, Antrim, is still 2/3 Unionist
    NI voted to Remain, remember?
    Antrim voted Leave
    And? Antrim is just one county. Are you proposing re-partition? Will the Nationalist parts of Antrim (eg. The Glens) be allowed to opt out?
    If nationalists in Scotland and Catholic parts of Northern Ireland can threaten to leave the UK because of a referendum result so can Protestant parts of Northern Ireland refuse to become parts of the Republic of Ireland because of a referendum result

    Does that mean me and 16 million other Remain voters can just refuse to the leave the EU? Brilliant! I think we have found a solution to Brexit!

    London remaining in the EU would be a practical option.
    We'd need a Remain corridor to the Free State of Manchester.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Most likely scenario must be Johnson calling an election immediately. He now has the poll which tells him he'll win comfotably against Corbyn even if he offers a no deal. He's then got his job for five years and his ambition is served.

    HYUFD. Have I missed anything?
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see Malc was out and about yesterday....

    https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1163015413795627008?s=20

    As I would expect I see you support the unionist Nazis
    Nice to see the Nats “rise above it” in their usual “Civic Nationalism” style......
    I see you don't deny it, tip - when you live in a glass house do not throw the first stone. Your poor attempt to traduce me says it all yet again. The xenophobic unionist You are well personified by that picture even if it is not you it certainly portrays your persona very accurately.
    C'mon malc, you've got to admire Unionists' heroic attempts to avert their eyes from their fellow travellers (UKIP, NF, BNP, Farage, Coburn, Britain First, Griffin etc). There was even an old Better Together favourite out yesterday, Aberdeen's best known National Front rep.

    https://twitter.com/gdog2010_john/status/1162749041144410113?s=20
    Just following in Arthur Donaldson’s footsteps.
  • Remainer headbangers now darkly mentioning public inquiries and 'show trials' with their favourite Brexit pantomime villains up on the stand.

    Gives you an idea just how unpleasant the forces ranged against implementing the 2016 result are.

    If there are to be 'show trials' then it should be those traitors who connived with the EU to undermine the democratic will of 17m+ voters.

    Or,

    We could be grown up and respect a democracy built on centuries of fairness and find a way to implement the result not subvert it for the sake of a rotting carcass of an institution that doesn't want us sulking on the sidelines anyway.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    edited August 2019
    I have tickets for the Headingley test.

    From the BBC

    If Smith is ruled out of today then he could also be ruled out of the Headingley Test because of the concussion rules.

    This could be massive for the series nevermind this match.

    The third Test starts on Thursday.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Though only 1 in 6 Unionists in Northern Ireland back the backstop in the same poll
    NI's populace doesn't consist solely of Unionists...
    Its largest county, Antrim, is still 2/3 Unionist
    NI voted to Remain, remember?
    Antrim voted Leave
    And? Antrim is just one county. Are you proposing re-partition? Will the Nationalist parts of Antrim (eg. The Glens) be allowed to opt out?
    If nationalists in Scotland and Catholic parts of Northern Ireland can threaten to leave the UK because of a referendum result so can Protestant parts of Northern Ireland refuse to become parts of the Republic of Ireland because of a referendum result

    Does that mean me and 16 million other Remain voters can just refuse to the leave the EU? Brilliant! I think we have found a solution to Brexit!

    London remaining in the EU would be a practical option.
    We'd need a Remain corridor to the Free State of Manchester.
    Greater Manchester is Leave.

    An M4 corridor to Bristol and Cardiff is what you should be asking for.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see Malc was out and about yesterday....

    https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1163015413795627008?s=20

    As I would expect I see you support the unionist Nazis
    Nice to see the Nats “rise above it” in their usual “Civic Nationalism” style......
    I see you don't deny it, tip - when you live in a glass house do not throw the first stone.
    Nats. Nazi. Cough.....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited August 2019

    TOPPING said:

    FF43 said:

    As the Treasury predictions broadly turned out, with the exception of employment, the real scandal is people falsely presenting this work as a lie.
    STOP LYING

    The Treasury predicted an immediate year long recession after a Leave vote.

    2.44 In both scenarios, a vote to leave the EU would result in a recession. Setting the shock scenario against the OBR’s Budget 2016 forecast, the analysis shows that immediately following a vote to leave the EU, the economy would be pushed into recession with four quarters of negative growth.
    Just as well the BoE acted to stave off such a scenario.
    In which case the BoE can stave off every future recession by cutting interest rates by 0.25% can't it.
    It was a specific event rather than an accumulation over time or part of be cycle cf the Fed and black Monday.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see Malc was out and about yesterday....

    https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1163015413795627008?s=20

    As I would expect I see you support the unionist Nazis
    Nice to see the Nats “rise above it” in their usual “Civic Nationalism” style......
    I see you don't deny it, tip - when you live in a glass house do not throw the first stone. Your poor attempt to traduce me says it all yet again. The xenophobic unionist You are well personified by that picture even if it is not you it certainly portrays your persona very accurately.
    C'mon malc, you've got to admire Unionists' heroic attempts to avert their eyes from their fellow travellers (UKIP, NF, BNP, Farage, Coburn, Britain First, Griffin etc). There was even an old Better Together favourite out yesterday, Aberdeen's best known National Front rep.

    https://twitter.com/gdog2010_john/status/1162749041144410113?s=20
    Just following in Arthur Donaldson’s footsteps.
    I think ole '6 million a lie' McConnachie is more a Mosley (former Tory and Labour MP) man.
  • Remainer headbangers now darkly mentioning public inquiries and 'show trials' with their favourite Brexit pantomime villains up on the stand.

    Gives you an idea just how unpleasant the forces ranged against implementing the 2016 result are.

    If there are to be 'show trials' then it should be those traitors who connived with the EU to undermine the democratic will of 17m+ voters.

    Or,

    We could be grown up and respect a democracy built on centuries of fairness and find a way to implement the result not subvert it for the sake of a rotting carcass of an institution that doesn't want us sulking on the sidelines anyway.

    I’d remind you Leavers have actually murdered one MP and attempted to murder another one.

    You’re quite on that.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    As @NickPalmer has rightly pointed out, your approach is Trotskyist. And no Brit would want to visit such destruction on their own country.

    I don't believe you are British. Good choice of British-sounding posting name though.

    Ha! I've been here for well over a decade now.

    I don't believe there will be destruction I believe there will be compromise. There will only be compromise though if it is necessary.
    You are playing with fire in a way that no actual Brit ever would.
    Silly expression. Fire is fun to play with. Setting fires is the best part of camping.
    Hmm that's as maybe but give a child a box of matches and a can of petrol and the fun might diminish somewhat.

    At least you are not disagreeing with my comment.
    I think some fire is necessary to find a solution yes.

    I disagree with fire being bad and I disagree with the idea no Brit would support it. Controlled burn backs are better than wildfires.

    A solution is easily available but until both sides have 'a fire in their belly' to reach one it won't be found. Necessity is the mother of invention.

    There will be no return to the Troubles. There will be a compromise found instead but it will only be found after we exit without a backstop and has to be found.

    I genuinely think your belief that politicians who have shown they know absolutely nothing about how the EU works, how aligned and integrated the UK economy is with the European one, and the realpolitik of trade deals - while believing Donald Trump is a genuine friend of the UK - can be trusted with a box full of matches and a can of petrol is rather sweet. You're a young man, aren't you?

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The Sunday Times report describes the documents as "compiled this month". So not only have we got mad accusations of treachery, we have obviously false mad accusations of treachery.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see Malc was out and about yesterday....

    https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1163015413795627008?s=20

    As I would expect I see you support the unionist Nazis
    Nice to see the Nats “rise above it” in their usual “Civic Nationalism” style......
    I see you don't deny it, tip - when you live in a glass house do not throw the first stone. Your poor attempt to traduce me says it all yet again. The xenophobic unionist You are well personified by that picture even if it is not you it certainly portrays your persona very accurately.
    C'mon malc, you've got to admire Unionists' heroic attempts to avert their eyes from their fellow travellers (UKIP, NF, BNP, Farage, Coburn, Britain First, Griffin etc). There was even an old Better Together favourite out yesterday, Aberdeen's best known National Front rep.

    https://twitter.com/gdog2010_john/status/1162749041144410113?s=20
    TUD, yes bedfellows of unionists like Carlotta who like to bump their gums and slag off people who support independence but happy to be part of a zenophobic unionist cabal who associate with people like that and worse, you just have to admire the unionists chutzpah.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see Malc was out and about yesterday....

    https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1163015413795627008?s=20

    As I would expect I see you support the unionist Nazis
    Nice to see the Nats “rise above it” in their usual “Civic Nationalism” style......
    I see you don't deny it, tip - when you live in a glass house do not throw the first stone. Your poor attempt to traduce me says it all yet again. The xenophobic unionist You are well personified by that picture even if it is not you it certainly portrays your persona very accurately.
    C'mon malc, you've got to admire Unionists' heroic attempts to avert their eyes from their fellow travellers (UKIP, NF, BNP, Farage, Coburn, Britain First, Griffin etc). There was even an old Better Together favourite out yesterday, Aberdeen's best known National Front rep.

    https://twitter.com/gdog2010_john/status/1162749041144410113?s=20
    Just following in Arthur Donaldson’s footsteps.
    You’d think they’d be wary of calling others Nazi....but no....
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    TGOHF said:
    How stupid will Gove look if Operation Black Swan leaks?

  • I’d remind you Leavers have actually murdered one MP and attempted to murder another one.

    You’re quite on that.

    Wow.

    Possibly the most inappropriate post I have seen on here.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Though only 1 in 6 Unionists in Northern Ireland back the backstop in the same poll
    NI's populace doesn't consist solely of Unionists...
    Its largest county, Antrim, is still 2/3 Unionist
    NI voted to Remain, remember?
    Antrim voted Leave
    And? Antrim is just one county. Are you proposing re-partition? Will the Nationalist parts of Antrim (eg. The Glens) be allowed to opt out?
    If nationalists in Scotland and Catholic parts of Northern Ireland can threaten to leave the UK because of a referendum result so can Protestant parts of Northern Ireland refuse to become parts of the Republic of Ireland because of a referendum result

    Does that mean me and 16 million other Remain voters can just refuse to the leave the EU? Brilliant! I think we have found a solution to Brexit!

    London remaining in the EU would be a practical option.
    We'd need a Remain corridor to the Free State of Manchester.
    You'd need water, electricity and food first....

    That would be a shocking introduction for the Westminster bubble on how negotiating works!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see Malc was out and about yesterday....

    https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1163015413795627008?s=20

    As I would expect I see you support the unionist Nazis
    Nice to see the Nats “rise above it” in their usual “Civic Nationalism” style......
    I see you don't deny it, tip - when you live in a glass house do not throw the first stone. Your poor attempt to traduce me says it all yet again. The xenophobic unionist You are well personified by that picture even if it is not you it certainly portrays your persona very accurately.
    C'mon malc, you've got to admire Unionists' heroic attempts to avert their eyes from their fellow travellers (UKIP, NF, BNP, Farage, Coburn, Britain First, Griffin etc). There was even an old Better Together favourite out yesterday, Aberdeen's best known National Front rep.

    https://twitter.com/gdog2010_john/status/1162749041144410113?s=20
    TUD, yes bedfellows of unionists like Carlotta who like to bump their gums and slag off people who support independence but happy to be part of a zenophobic unionist cabal who associate with people like that and worse, you just have to admire the unionists chutzpah.
    Can you get more Civic?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    As the Treasury predictions broadly turned out, with the exception of employment, the real scandal is people falsely presenting this work as a lie.
    STOP LYING

    The Treasury predicted an immediate year long recession after a Leave vote.

    2.44 In both scenarios, a vote to leave the EU would result in a recession. Setting the shock scenario against the OBR’s Budget 2016 forecast, the analysis shows that immediately following a vote to leave the EU, the economy would be pushed into recession with four quarters of negative growth.
    Don't you accuse me of lying, despicable person.

    These are the relevant figures from the report:

    Immediate impact of a vote to leave the EU on the UK (% difference from base level unless specified otherwise)
    Shock scenarioa Severe shock scenarioa
    GDP -3.6% -6.0%
    CPI inflation rate (percentage points) +2.3 +2.7
    Unemployment rate (percentage points) +1.6 +2.4
    Unemployment (level) +520,000 +820,000
    Average real wages -2.8% -4.0%
    House prices -10% -18%
    Sterling exchange rate index -12% -15%
    Public sector net borrowing (£ billion) b +£24 billion +£39 billion
    a
    Peak impact over two years. Unemployment level rounded to the nearest 10,000. b
    Fiscal year 2017-18.

    Relative to Remain.
    Then STOP LYING.

    This is what you said:
    FF43 said:


    As the Treasury predictions broadly turned out, with the exception of employment, the real scandal is people falsely presenting this work as a lie.

    The Treasury predicted an immediate four quarter recession AND THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

    So it didn't 'broadly turn out'.

    GDP increased, unemployment fell, house prices rose, government borrowing reduced.
    Yes because the BoE took action.
  • TGOHF said:
    An absolute classic of the non-denial denial genre. You can tell Gove is a journalist.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see Malc was out and about yesterday....

    https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1163015413795627008?s=20



    Just following in Arthur Donaldson’s footsteps.
    Oh Dear nutty has joined to support his fellow zenophobes. Compare with Donaldson being fitted up by a corrupt and scared London government , fearful he would have Scotland out on strike.

    Compare and contrast

    Footage of the Queen giving a fascist salute has revived theories that Britain’s blue bloods were in thrall to Hitler
    The country is bristling with new ideas and new methods… I have found fresh hope and renewed confidence.”

    So wrote the Conservative MP Sir Arnold Wilson after one of the seven visits he paid to Nazi Germany between 1933 and 1937.
    Lord Mount Temple, who helped found the Anglo-German Fellowship, declared that Hitler had produced a “national reawakening”. A former minister, Lord Londonderry, called on Hitler and found him “a kindly man with a receding chin and an impressive face”.

    The historian David Pryce-Jones considers this “the silliest sentence ever uttered about Hitler”. But that accolade was surely earned by Sir John Simon, foreign secretary from 1931 to 1935, who called Hitler “an Austrian Joan of Arc with a moustache”.

    Even Winston Churchill wrote laudatory comments on Hitler in 1935. He and others were impressed by the dynamism of the Führer, his oratorical skill, and his capacity to mobilise a great national movement. Churchill soon changed his mind: one reason was his distaste for Hitler’s antisemitism.

    The late historian Sir Martin Gilbert liked to tell the story of the occasion when the two warlords almost met. It was 1932 and Churchill, out of office, was visiting Germany.

    He found himself in Munich and was approached by the Nazi leader’s Harvard-educated sidekick Ernst “Putzi” Hanfstaengl, who offered to arrange a meeting with Hitler.

    Churchill was willing but warned Hanfstaengl that he would take up the issue of antisemitism. “Tell your boss antisemitism may be a good starter but it is a bad stayer,” he said. The meeting never took place.

    A claque of reactionary dukes took longer to perceive the Führer’s true colours. The Duke of Westminster, possibly the wealthiest man in Britain in the 1930s, blamed communists and Jews for stirring up trouble between Britain and Germany. He named his dog “Jew”.

    The Duke of Buccleuch, who held the honorific position of Lord Steward of the Royal Household, travelled to Germany in April 1939 to join in celebrations of Hitler’s 50th birthday.
  • The Sunday Times report describes the documents as "compiled this month". So not only have we got mad accusations of treachery, we have obviously false mad accusations of treachery.

    If we take Gove at his word, though, he is telling us everything will be fine - and if it isn't it will be because the government did not get its planning right.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see Malc was out and about yesterday....

    Oh Dear nutty has joined to support his fellow zenophobes. Compare with Donaldson being fitted up by a corrupt and scared London government , fearful he would have Scotland out on strike.

    Compare and contrast

    Footage of the Queen giving a fascist salute has revived theories that Britain’s blue bloods were in thrall to Hitler
    The country is bristling with new ideas and new methods… I have found fresh hope and renewed confidence.”

    So wrote the Conservative MP Sir Arnold Wilson after one of the seven visits he paid to Nazi Germany between 1933 and 1937.
    Lord Mount Temple, who helped found the Anglo-German Fellowship, declared that Hitler had produced a “national reawakening”. A former minister, Lord Londonderry, called on Hitler and found him “a kindly man with a receding chin and an impressive face”.

    The historian David Pryce-Jones considers this “the silliest sentence ever uttered about Hitler”. But that accolade was surely earned by Sir John Simon, foreign secretary from 1931 to 1935, who called Hitler “an Austrian Joan of Arc with a moustache”.

    Even Winston Churchill wrote laudatory comments on Hitler in 1935. He and others were impressed by the dynamism of the Führer, his oratorical skill, and his capacity to mobilise a great national movement. Churchill soon changed his mind: one reason was his distaste for Hitler’s antisemitism.

    The late historian Sir Martin Gilbert liked to tell the story of the occasion when the two warlords almost met. It was 1932 and Churchill, out of office, was visiting Germany.

    He found himself in Munich and was approached by the Nazi leader’s Harvard-educated sidekick Ernst “Putzi” Hanfstaengl, who offered to arrange a meeting with Hitler.

    Churchill was willing but warned Hanfstaengl that he would take up the issue of antisemitism. “Tell your boss antisemitism may be a good starter but it is a bad stayer,” he said. The meeting never took place.

    A claque of reactionary dukes took longer to perceive the Führer’s true colours. The Duke of Westminster, possibly the wealthiest man in Britain in the 1930s, blamed communists and Jews for stirring up trouble between Britain and Germany. He named his dog “Jew”.

    The Duke of Buccleuch, who held the honorific position of Lord Steward of the Royal Household, travelled to Germany in April 1939 to join in celebrations of Hitler’s 50th birthday.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    FF43 said:

    As the Treasury predictions broadly turned out, with the exception of employment, the real scandal is people falsely presenting this work as a lie.
    That's quite some appropriation of "broadly"!
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Remainer headbangers now darkly mentioning public inquiries and 'show trials' with their favourite Brexit pantomime villains up on the stand.

    Gives you an idea just how unpleasant the forces ranged against implementing the 2016 result are.

    If there are to be 'show trials' then it should be those traitors who connived with the EU to undermine the democratic will of 17m+ voters.

    Or,

    We could be grown up and respect a democracy built on centuries of fairness and find a way to implement the result not subvert it for the sake of a rotting carcass of an institution that doesn't want us sulking on the sidelines anyway.

    We didn't have the full franchise for an election as recently as 1918 - so our democracy isn't centuries old.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    glw said:

    TGOHF said:
    How stupid will Gove look if Operation Black Swan leaks?
    So what steps has the government taken - or could it take - to deal with the data protection issues described in this document?

    Unsexy they may be but they are vital to a lot of business. And as I read the government’s base scenario, there are no effective steps which can be taken.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:



    As I would expect I see you support the unionist Nazis
    Nice to see the Nats “rise above it” in their usual “Civic Nationalism” style......
    I see you don't deny it, tip - when you live in a glass house do not throw the first stone.
    Nats. Nazi. Cough.....
    Oh Dear nutty has joined to support his fellow zenophobes. Compare these Tories with Donaldson being fitted up by a corrupt and scared London government , fearful he would have Scotland out on strike.

    Compare and contrast

    Footage of the Queen giving a fascist salute has revived theories that Britain’s blue bloods were in thrall to Hitler
    The country is bristling with new ideas and new methods… I have found fresh hope and renewed confidence.”

    So wrote the Conservative MP Sir Arnold Wilson after one of the seven visits he paid to Nazi Germany between 1933 and 1937.
    Lord Mount Temple, who helped found the Anglo-German Fellowship, declared that Hitler had produced a “national reawakening”. A former minister, Lord Londonderry, called on Hitler and found him “a kindly man with a receding chin and an impressive face”.

    The historian David Pryce-Jones considers this “the silliest sentence ever uttered about Hitler”. But that accolade was surely earned by Sir John Simon, foreign secretary from 1931 to 1935, who called Hitler “an Austrian Joan of Arc with a moustache”.

    Even Winston Churchill wrote laudatory comments on Hitler in 1935. He and others were impressed by the dynamism of the Führer, his oratorical skill, and his capacity to mobilise a great national movement. Churchill soon changed his mind: one reason was his distaste for Hitler’s antisemitism.

    The late historian Sir Martin Gilbert liked to tell the story of the occasion when the two warlords almost met. It was 1932 and Churchill, out of office, was visiting Germany.

    He found himself in Munich and was approached by the Nazi leader’s Harvard-educated sidekick Ernst “Putzi” Hanfstaengl, who offered to arrange a meeting with Hitler.

    Churchill was willing but warned Hanfstaengl that he would take up the issue of antisemitism. “Tell your boss antisemitism may be a good starter but it is a bad stayer,” he said. The meeting never took place.

    A claque of reactionary dukes took longer to perceive the Führer’s true colours. The Duke of Westminster, possibly the wealthiest man in Britain in the 1930s, blamed communists and Jews for stirring up trouble between Britain and Germany. He named his dog “Jew”.

    The Duke of Buccleuch, who held the honorific position of Lord Steward of the Royal Household, travelled to Germany in April 1939 to join in celebrations of Hitler’s 50th birthday.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    Remainer headbangers now darkly mentioning public inquiries and 'show trials' with their favourite Brexit pantomime villains up on the stand.

    Gives you an idea just how unpleasant the forces ranged against implementing the 2016 result are.

    If there are to be 'show trials' then it should be those traitors who connived with the EU to undermine the democratic will of 17m+ voters.

    Or,

    We could be grown up and respect a democracy built on centuries of fairness and find a way to implement the result not subvert it for the sake of a rotting carcass of an institution that doesn't want us sulking on the sidelines anyway.

    I'm not "darkly mentioning" anything. I think it is a pretty nailed on certainty that if we No Deal, then at some point in the future there will be a public inquiry.

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Though only 1 in 6 Unionists in Northern Ireland back the backstop in the same poll
    NI's populace doesn't consist solely of Unionists...
    Its largest county, Antrim, is still 2/3 Unionist
    Really? The population of Northern Ireland support the backstop by nearly 3:2, but it's fine to ignore their wishes because 5 out of 6 people, who make up 2 out of 3 people in one part of NI are opposed?

    I'm glad you aren't involved in drawing up constituency boundaries.
    Yes absolutely. Because of the principles behind the Good Friday Agreement.

    The principle is one of compromise and consensus between the communities not one community forcing their will upon the other.

    The Irish are standing firm behind the nationalist community and ignoring the unionists. So I have no qualms supporting the unionists and ignoring the nationalists. When the communities can come together we can have compromise.

    That won't happen until the crisis comes to the fore. We need to trigger a crisis on the border or we won't have any compromise.
    So it's okay to impose a hard border on one community, but not okay to impose the backstop on the other?

    Nice to see that the British record for impartiality is maintained.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    edited August 2019


    I’d remind you Leavers have actually murdered one MP and attempted to murder another one.

    You’re quite on that.

    Wow.

    Possibly the most inappropriate post I have seen on here.
    That's not even the most inappropriate post this week, let alone in the 4 months you've been around.

    I'm sure there must be a safe space for Leaver snowflakes out there somewhere.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Surprise surprise - the Australians sent out a concussed batsman. Their doctor should be getting the sack. As if we needed confirmation after he came out swinging like a drunk sailor. No way he can play the next game within 3 days, so with a clear weather forecast England will have a much better chance!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362


    I’d remind you Leavers have actually murdered one MP and attempted to murder another one.

    You’re quite on that.

    Wow.

    Possibly the most inappropriate post I have seen on here.
    When will the idiot be banned
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Though only 1 in 6 Unionists in Northern Ireland back the backstop in the same poll
    NI's populace doesn't consist solely of Unionists...
    Its largest county, Antrim, is still 2/3 Unionist
    Really? The population of Northern Ireland support the backstop by nearly 3:2, but it's fine to ignore their wishes because 5 out of 6 people, who make up 2 out of 3 people in one part of NI are opposed?

    I'm glad you aren't involved in drawing up constituency boundaries.
    Yes absolutely. Because of the principles behind the Good Friday Agreement.

    The principle is one of compromise and consensus between the communities not one community forcing their will upon the other.

    The Irish are standing firm behind the nationalist community and ignoring the unionists. So I have no qualms supporting the unionists and ignoring the nationalists. When the communities can come together we can have compromise.

    That won't happen until the crisis comes to the fore. We need to trigger a crisis on the border or we won't have any compromise.
    So it's okay to impose a hard border on one community, but not okay to impose the backstop on the other?

    Nice to see that the British record for impartiality is maintained.
    A hard border won't be imposed though it will be the default state for failure to reach an agreement. Once an agreement is reached it will go away.

    The backstop isn't due to failure it is imposition and unacceptable.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see Malc was out and about yesterday....

    https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1163015413795627008?s=20

    As I would expect I see you support the unionist Nazis
    Nice to see the Nats “rise above it” in their usual “Civic Nationalism” style......
    I see you don't deny it, tip - when you live in a glass house do not throw the first stone. Your poor attempt to traduce me says it all yet again. The xenophobic unionist You are well personified by that picture even if it is not you it certainly portrays your persona very accurately.
    C'mon malc, you've got to admire Unionists' heroic attempts to avert their eyes from their fellow travellers (UKIP, NF, BNP, Farage, Coburn, Britain First, Griffin etc). There was even an old Better Together favourite out yesterday, Aberdeen's best known National Front rep.

    https://twitter.com/gdog2010_john/status/1162749041144410113?s=20
    Just following in Arthur Donaldson’s footsteps.
    You’d think they’d be wary of calling others Nazi....but no....
    Methinks you protest too much , stop struggling and just post more of your usual bile.
  • TOPPING said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    As the Treasury predictions broadly turned out, with the exception of employment, the real scandal is people falsely presenting this work as a lie.
    STOP LYING

    The Treasury predicted an immediate year long recession after a Leave vote.

    2.44 In both scenarios, a vote to leave the EU would result in a recession. Setting the shock scenario against the OBR’s Budget 2016 forecast, the analysis shows that immediately following a vote to leave the EU, the economy would be pushed into recession with four quarters of negative growth.
    Don't you accuse me of lying, despicable person.

    These are the relevant figures from the report:

    Immediate impact of a vote to leave the EU on the UK (% difference from base level unless specified otherwise)
    Shock scenarioa Severe shock scenarioa
    GDP -3.6% -6.0%
    CPI inflation rate (percentage points) +2.3 +2.7
    Unemployment rate (percentage points) +1.6 +2.4
    Unemployment (level) +520,000 +820,000
    Average real wages -2.8% -4.0%
    House prices -10% -18%
    Sterling exchange rate index -12% -15%
    Public sector net borrowing (£ billion) b +£24 billion +£39 billion
    a
    Peak impact over two years. Unemployment level rounded to the nearest 10,000. b
    Fiscal year 2017-18.

    Relative to Remain.
    Then STOP LYING.

    This is what you said:
    FF43 said:


    As the Treasury predictions broadly turned out, with the exception of employment, the real scandal is people falsely presenting this work as a lie.

    The Treasury predicted an immediate four quarter recession AND THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

    So it didn't 'broadly turn out'.

    GDP increased, unemployment fell, house prices rose, government borrowing reduced.
    Yes because the BoE took action.
    In which case the BoE can avert all possible recessions in the future by cutting interest rates by 0.25%.

    Well done on this economic discovery you have made - you deserve a nomination for the Noble prize.

    A question though - if a 0.25% interest rate cut can avert a recession why didn't increasing interest rates twice by 0.25% since then cause a recession ?

  • That's not even the most inappropriate post this week, let alone in the 4 months you've been around.

    I'm sure there must be a site for Leaver snowflakes out there somewhere.

    I've been an daily reader from the early days of the site.

    And it isn't a question of being overly sensitive, it is a question of basic decency which unfortunately the poster in question showed little of with his comments.

    We all have off days though and we are certainly in febrile times.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Wish I had this guy's faith:


    "in a recession the Democrats can nominate any of their candidates and expect to evict the president with ease."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/opinion/sunday/what-happens-in-a-recession.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Though only 1 in 6 Unionists in Northern Ireland back the backstop in the same poll
    NI's populace doesn't consist solely of Unionists...
    Its largest county, Antrim, is still 2/3 Unionist
    Really? The population of Northern Ireland support the backstop by nearly 3:2, but it's fine to ignore their wishes because 5 out of 6 people, who make up 2 out of 3 people in one part of NI are opposed?

    I'm glad you aren't involved in drawing up constituency boundaries.
    Yes absolutely. Because of the principles behind the Good Friday Agreement.

    The principle is one of compromise and consensus between the communities not one community forcing their will upon the other.

    The Irish are standing firm behind the nationalist community and ignoring the unionists. So I have no qualms supporting the unionists and ignoring the nationalists. When the communities can come together we can have compromise.

    That won't happen until the crisis comes to the fore. We need to trigger a crisis on the border or we won't have any compromise.
    So it's okay to impose a hard border on one community, but not okay to impose the backstop on the other?

    Nice to see that the British record for impartiality is maintained.
    A hard border won't be imposed though it will be the default state for failure to reach an agreement. Once an agreement is reached it will go away.

    The backstop isn't due to failure it is imposition and unacceptable.
    The backstop rewards the EU for negotiating in bad faith. It is why it should have been filed under "FUCK OFF!!!" the moment it was proposed.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Though only 1 in 6 Unionists in Northern Ireland back the backstop in the same poll
    NI's populace doesn't consist solely of Unionists...
    Its largest county, Antrim, is still 2/3 Unionist
    Really? The population of Northern Ireland support the backstop by nearly 3:2, but it's fine to ignore their wishes because 5 out of 6 people, who make up 2 out of 3 people in one part of NI are opposed?

    I'm glad you aren't involved in drawing up constituency boundaries.
    Yes absolutely. Because of the principles behind the Good Friday Agreement.

    The principle is one of compromise and consensus between the communities not one community forcing their will upon the other.

    The Irish are standing firm behind the nationalist community and ignoring the unionists. So I have no qualms supporting the unionists and ignoring the nationalists. When the communities can come together we can have compromise.

    That won't happen until the crisis comes to the fore. We need to trigger a crisis on the border or we won't have any compromise.
    So it's okay to impose a hard border on one community, but not okay to impose the backstop on the other?

    Nice to see that the British record for impartiality is maintained.

    You don't get to 58% backing for the backstop in Northern Ireland without significant unionist support for it.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    As the Treasury predictions broadly turned out, with the exception of employment, the real scandal is people falsely presenting this work as a lie.
    STOP LYING

    The wth.
    Don't you accuse me of lying, despicable person.

    These are the relevant figures from the report:

    Immediate impact of a vote to leave the EU on the UK (% difference from base level unless specified otherwise)
    Shock scenarioa Severe shock scenarioa
    GDP -3.6% -6.0%
    CPI inflation rate (percentage points) +2.3 +2.7
    Unemployment rate (percentage points) +1.6 +2.4
    Unemployment (level) +520,000 +820,000
    Average real wages -2.8% -4.0%
    House prices -10% -18%
    Sterling exchange rate index -12% -15%
    Public sector net borrowing (£ billion) b +£24 billion +£39 billion
    a
    Peak impact over two years. Unemployment level rounded to the nearest 10,000. b
    Fiscal year 2017-18.

    Relative to Remain.
    Then STOP LYING.

    This is what you said:
    FF43 said:


    As the Treasury predictions broadly turned out, with the exception of employment, the real scandal is people falsely presenting this work as a lie.

    The Treasury predicted an immediate four quarter recession AND THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

    So it didn't 'broadly turn out'.

    GDP increased, unemployment fell, house prices rose, government borrowing reduced.
    Yes because the BoE took action.
    In which case the BoE can avert all possible recessions in the future by cutting interest rates by 0.25%.

    Well done on this economic discovery you have made - you deserve a nomination for the Noble prize.

    A question though - if a 0.25% interest rate cut can avert a recession why didn't increasing interest rates twice by 0.25% since then cause a recession ?
    Dense doesn't begin to describe your view. There was a discrete event aside from the normal business cycle and the BoE made it known that it would stand ready to support the economy. Just as the Fed did with black Monday. It was not the quantum of the cut it was the attitude. Again, similarly to the Fed in 1987.
  • Remainer headbangers now darkly mentioning public inquiries and 'show trials' with their favourite Brexit pantomime villains up on the stand.

    Gives you an idea just how unpleasant the forces ranged against implementing the 2016 result are.

    If there are to be 'show trials' then it should be those traitors who connived with the EU to undermine the democratic will of 17m+ voters.

    Or,

    We could be grown up and respect a democracy built on centuries of fairness and find a way to implement the result not subvert it for the sake of a rotting carcass of an institution that doesn't want us sulking on the sidelines anyway.

    We didn't have the full franchise for an election as recently as 1918 - so our democracy isn't centuries old.
    Wasn't 1929 the first GE where women under 30 could vote ?

    And 1970 the first GE where 18-20s could vote ?

    Things evolve over time.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677


    I’d remind you Leavers have actually murdered one MP and attempted to murder another one.

    You’re quite on that.

    Wow.

    Possibly the most inappropriate post I have seen on here.
    You would have loved Grabcoque.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    As the Treasury predictions broadly turned out, with the exception of employment, the real scandal is people falsely presenting this work as a lie.
    STOP LYING

    The Treasury predicted an immediate year long recession after a Leave vote.

    2.44 In both scenarios, a vote to leave the EU would result in a recession. Setting the shock scenario against the OBR’s Budget 2016 forecast, the analysis shows that immediately following a vote to leave the EU, the economy would be pushed into recession with four quarters of negative growth.
    Don't you accuse me of lying, despicable person.

    These are the relevant figures from the report:

    Immediate impact of a vote to leave the EU on the UK (% difference from base level unless specified otherwise)
    Shock scenarioa Severe shock scenarioa
    GDP -3.6% -6.0%
    CPI inflation rate (percentage points) +2.3 +2.7
    Unemployment rate (percentage points) +1.6 +2.4
    Unemployment (level) +520,000 +820,000
    Average real wages -2.8% -4.0%
    House prices -10% -18%
    Sterling exchange rate index -12% -15%
    Public sector net borrowing (£ billion) b +£24 billion +£39 billion
    a
    Peak impact over two years. Unemployment level rounded to the nearest 10,000. b
    Fiscal year 2017-18.

    Relative to Remain.
    I reckon turnout relative to (Treasury prediction) approximately as follows:

    GDP -2% (-3.6%)
    CPI inflation rate (% points) +2.8 (+2.3)
    Unemployment rate (percentage points) 0 (+1.6)
    Average real wages -2.5% (-2.8%)
    House prices -5% (-10%)
    Sterling exchange rate index -15% (-12%)
    Public sector net borrowing +£5 billion (+£24 billion)
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    John Bercow is now available on Betfair's exchange.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,534


    That's not even the most inappropriate post this week, let alone in the 4 months you've been around.

    I'm sure there must be a site for Leaver snowflakes out there somewhere.

    I've been an daily reader from the early days of the site.

    And it isn't a question of being overly sensitive, it is a question of basic decency which unfortunately the poster in question showed little of with his comments.

    We all have off days though and we are certainly in febrile times.

    IMHO the Captain is right on this, even though I think he is rather the opposite of a leftie Remainer like me. We should all dial it down a bit - after all, it's REALLY UNLIKELY that anything we say here will make the slightest difference. I was slightly startled to see my Labour List idea apparently taken up by Corbyn, but otherwise have no illusions about my lack of influence, and I shouldn't think most of us are any different.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    John Bercow is now available on Betfair's exchange.

    I have put £2 down, simply because it is so utterly bonkers that it will probably happen!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Though only 1 in 6 Unionists in Northern Ireland back the backstop in the same poll
    NI's populace doesn't consist solely of Unionists...
    Its largest county, Antrim, is still 2/3 Unionist
    NI voted to Remain, remember?
    Antrim voted Leave
    And? Antrim is just one county. Are you proposing re-partition? Will the Nationalist parts of Antrim (eg. The Glens) be allowed to opt out?
    If nationalists in Scotland and Catholic parts of Northern Ireland can threaten to leave the UK because of a referendum result so can Protestant parts of Northern Ireland refuse to become parts of the Republic of Ireland because of a referendum result

    Does that mean me and 16 million other Remain voters can just refuse to the leave the EU? Brilliant! I think we have found a solution to Brexit!

    London remaining in the EU would be a practical option.
    We'd need a Remain corridor to the Free State of Manchester.
    It's called HS2!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Jofra Archer appears to have just won the Ashes for England.

    Although probably (hopefully) not quite he way he intended...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Operation Yellowhammer - written by the fifth columnist collaborators in the civil service. Time for a purge.
  • TOPPING said:

    In which case the BoE can avert all possible recessions in the future by cutting interest rates by 0.25%.

    Well done on this economic discovery you have made - you deserve a nomination for the Noble prize.

    A question though - if a 0.25% interest rate cut can avert a recession why didn't increasing interest rates twice by 0.25% since then cause a recession ?

    Dense doesn't begin to describe your view. There was a discrete event aside from the normal business cycle and the BoE made it known that it would stand ready to support the economy. Just as the Fed did with black Monday. It was not the quantum of the cut it was the attitude. Again, similarly to the Fed in 1987.
    And why didn't the Treasury predictuons take the BoE into account?

    Why can't the BoE do the same on 1 November or before then?
  • MaxPB said:

    Operation Yellowhammer - written by the fifth columnist collaborators in the civil service. Time for a purge.

    The problem with Benedict Arnold isn't that he was called a traitor.

    Collaborators and traitors need to be removed from office. Though if this was written as a worst case problem identifying exercise then that is sensible. The leaker though is a traitor.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    John Bercow is now available on Betfair's exchange.

    I have put £2 down, simply because it is so utterly bonkers that it will probably happen!
    That was my money laying you, I think. Feel free to invest more.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    TOPPING said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    As the Treasury predictions broadly turned out, with the exception of employment, the real scandal is people falsely presenting this work as a lie.
    STOP LYING

    The Treasury predicted an immediate year long recession after a Leave vote.

    2.44 In both scenarios, a vote to leave the EU would result in a recession. Setting the shock scenario against the OBR’s Budget 2016 forecast, the analysis shows that immediately following a vote to leave the EU, the economy would be pushed into recession with four quarters of negative growth.
    Don't you accuse me of lying, despicable person.

    These are the relevant figures from the report:

    Immediate impact of a vote to leave the EU on the UK (% difference from base level unless specified otherwise)
    Shock scenarioa Severe shock scenarioa
    GDP -3.6% -6.0%
    CPI inflation rate (percentage points) +2.3 +2.7
    Unemployment rate (percentage points) +1.6 +2.4
    Unemployment (level) +520,000 +820,000
    Average real wages -2.8% -4.0%
    House prices -10% -18%
    Sterling exchange rate index -12% -15%
    Public sector net borrowing (£ billion) b +£24 billion +£39 billion
    a
    Peak impact over two years. Unemployment level rounded to the nearest 10,000. b
    Fiscal year 2017-18.

    Relative to Remain.
    Then STOP LYING.

    This is what you said:
    FF43 said:


    As the Treasury predictions broadly turned out, with the exception of employment, the real scandal is people falsely presenting this work as a lie.

    The Treasury predicted an immediate four quarter recession AND THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

    So it didn't 'broadly turn out'.

    GDP increased, unemployment fell, house prices rose, government borrowing reduced.
    Yes because the BoE took action.
    Honestly, on the road not taken where the Bank didn't cut interest rates the result would have been basically the same.

    The slowdown we're seeing now is what the treasury expected after the vote, they were wrong.
  • John Bercow is now available on Betfair's exchange.

    I have put £2 down, simply because it is so utterly bonkers that it will probably happen!
    That was my money laying you, I think. Feel free to invest more.
    I get the feeling you're not convinced by my Bercow as next PM theory.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    Operation Yellowhammer - written by the fifth columnist collaborators in the civil service. Time for a purge.

    The problem with Benedict Arnold isn't that he was called a traitor.

    Collaborators and traitors need to be removed from office. Though if this was written as a worst case problem identifying exercise then that is sensible. The leaker though is a traitor.
    Just in case it's not obvious, I wasn't being serious.

  • That's not even the most inappropriate post this week, let alone in the 4 months you've been around.

    I'm sure there must be a site for Leaver snowflakes out there somewhere.

    I've been an daily reader from the early days of the site.

    And it isn't a question of being overly sensitive, it is a question of basic decency which unfortunately the poster in question showed little of with his comments.

    We all have off days though and we are certainly in febrile times.

    IMHO the Captain is right on this, even though I think he is rather the opposite of a leftie Remainer like me. We should all dial it down a bit - after all, it's REALLY UNLIKELY that anything we say here will make the slightest difference. I was slightly startled to see my Labour List idea apparently taken up by Corbyn, but otherwise have no illusions about my lack of influence, and I shouldn't think most of us are any different.
    Maybe I lead a sheltered online existence, but PB is by far the most extreme social media site that I visit. I'm in a few Fire Service and FBU groups on various platforms, and none of them seem to reach the level of vitriol and personal abuse that is now the norm on here, even when Brexit and Tories are discussed!. Many on here think PB is the kiddy when it comes to serious politics, but it's in danger of turning people off with it's mostly black and white views on Brexit-You're either a leaver or remainer, with nowhere in between.
    As I've commented many times, Brexit has turned you all crazy!
  • FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:


    As the Treasury predictions broadly turned out, with the exception of employment, the real scandal is people falsely presenting this work as a lie.

    STOP LYING

    The Treasury predicted an immediate year long recession after a Leave vote.

    2.44 In both scenarios, a vote to leave the EU would result in a recession. Setting the shock scenario against the OBR’s Budget 2016 forecast, the analysis shows that immediately following a vote to leave the EU, the economy would be pushed into recession with four quarters of negative growth.
    Don't you accuse me of lying, despicable person.

    These are the relevant figures from the report:

    Immediate impact of a vote to leave the EU on the UK (% difference from base level unless specified otherwise)
    Shock scenarioa Severe shock scenarioa
    GDP -3.6% -6.0%
    CPI inflation rate (percentage points) +2.3 +2.7
    Unemployment rate (percentage points) +1.6 +2.4
    Unemployment (level) +520,000 +820,000
    Average real wages -2.8% -4.0%
    House prices -10% -18%
    Sterling exchange rate index -12% -15%
    Public sector net borrowing (£ billion) b +£24 billion +£39 billion
    a
    Peak impact over two years. Unemployment level rounded to the nearest 10,000. b
    Fiscal year 2017-18.

    Relative to Remain.
    I reckon turnout relative to (Treasury prediction) approximately as follows:

    GDP -2% (-3.6%)
    CPI inflation rate (% points) +2.8 (+2.3)
    Unemployment rate (percentage points) 0 (+1.6)
    Average real wages -2.5% (-2.8%)
    House prices -5% (-10%)
    Sterling exchange rate index -15% (-12%)
    Public sector net borrowing +£5 billion (+£24 billion)
    This was the Treasury prediction for GDP:

    Shock Scenario
    2016q3 -0.1%
    2016q4 -0.1%
    2017q1 -0.1%
    2017q2 -0.1%
    2017q3 +0.2%
    2017q4 +0.2%
    2018q1 +0.2%
    2018q2 +0.2%

    Severe Shock scenario
    2016q3 -1.0%
    2016q4 -0.4%
    2017q1 -0.4%
    2017q2 -0.4%
    2017q3 +0.0%
    2017q4 +0.0%
    2018q1 +0.1%
    2018q2 +0.1%

    This is what actually happened:
    2016q3 +0.5%
    2016q4 +0.7%
    2017q1 +0.4%
    2017q2 +0.3%
    2017q3 +0.5%
    2017q4 +0.4%
    2018q1 +0.1%
    2018q2 +0.4%

    So the Treasury predicted that following a Leave vote there would be an immediate four quarter recession with GDP change over the two years after a Leave vote being in the range +0.4% to -2.0%.

    What actually happened was GDP growth of 3.3%.

    +3.3% is not 'broadly' within a range of +0.4% to -2.0%.

    And that's without mentioning the Treasury's other errors on unemployment, pay rises, house prices, consumption, investment, exports etc.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    MaxPB said:

    Operation Yellowhammer - written by the fifth columnist collaborators in the civil service. Time for a purge.

    Possibly the fifth column is different from who you think they are. Civil servants serve the government and aren't secretive about it
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Operation Yellowhammer - written by the fifth columnist collaborators in the civil service. Time for a purge.

    The problem with Benedict Arnold isn't that he was called a traitor.

    Collaborators and traitors need to be removed from office. Though if this was written as a worst case problem identifying exercise then that is sensible. The leaker though is a traitor.
    Just in case it's not obvious, I wasn't being serious.
    I am.

    I don't want violence but anyone who is working for the government and undermining their government while collaborators with our enemy in these negotiations is a traitor. They should be fired if they can't recuse themselves.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    John Bercow is now available on Betfair's exchange.

    I have put £2 down, simply because it is so utterly bonkers that it will probably happen!
    That was my money laying you, I think. Feel free to invest more.
    You are welcome. No more from me though. I was doing it for the humour value when I am next in the pub discussing politics.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847


    That's not even the most inappropriate post this week, let alone in the 4 months you've been around.

    I'm sure there must be a site for Leaver snowflakes out there somewhere.

    I've been an daily reader from the early days of the site.

    And it isn't a question of being overly sensitive, it is a question of basic decency which unfortunately the poster in question showed little of with his comments.

    We all have off days though and we are certainly in febrile times.

    IMHO the Captain is right on this, even though I think he is rather the opposite of a leftie Remainer like me. We should all dial it down a bit - after all, it's REALLY UNLIKELY that anything we say here will make the slightest difference. I was slightly startled to see my Labour List idea apparently taken up by Corbyn, but otherwise have no illusions about my lack of influence, and I shouldn't think most of us are any different.
    Maybe I lead a sheltered online existence, but PB is by far the most extreme social media site that I visit. I'm in a few Fire Service and FBU groups on various platforms, and none of them seem to reach the level of vitriol and personal abuse that is now the norm on here, even when Brexit and Tories are discussed!. Many on here think PB is the kiddy when it comes to serious politics, but it's in danger of turning people off with it's mostly black and white views on Brexit-You're either a leaver or remainer, with nowhere in between.
    As I've commented many times, Brexit has turned you all crazy!
    You lead a sheltered existence online! And I think there are many (even most?) posters who would accept/tolerate a compromise brexit whether soft Brexit or Mays deal. It is no deal and revoke that understandably produce the strong opinions.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Though only 1 in 6 Unionists in Northern Ireland back the backstop in the same poll
    NI's populace doesn't consist solely of Unionists...
    Its largest county, Antrim, is still 2/3 Unionist
    Really? The population of Northern Ireland support the backstop by nearly 3:2, but it's fine to ignore their wishes because 5 out of 6 people, who make up 2 out of 3 people in one part of NI are opposed?

    I'm glad you aren't involved in drawing up constituency boundaries.
    Yes absolutely. Because of the principles behind the Good Friday Agreement.

    The principle is one of compromise and consensus between the communities not one community forcing their will upon the other.

    The Irish are standing firm behind the nationalist community and ignoring the unionists. So I have no qualms supporting the unionists and ignoring the nationalists. When the communities can come together we can have compromise.

    That won't happen until the crisis comes to the fore. We need to trigger a crisis on the border or we won't have any compromise.
    So it's okay to impose a hard border on one community, but not okay to impose the backstop on the other?

    Nice to see that the British record for impartiality is maintained.
    A hard border won't be imposed though it will be the default state for failure to reach an agreement. Once an agreement is reached it will go away.

    The backstop isn't due to failure it is imposition and unacceptable.
    The backstop rewards the EU for negotiating in bad faith. It is why it should have been filed under "FUCK OFF!!!" the moment it was proposed.
    That would have been a bit tricky seeing as it was proposed by the UK...
  • Any idea if more rain is forecast at Lords? When can we declare?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    John Bercow is now available on Betfair's exchange.

    I have put £2 down, simply because it is so utterly bonkers that it will probably happen!
    That was my money laying you, I think. Feel free to invest more.
    I get the feeling you're not convinced by my Bercow as next PM theory.
    I'm not sure you're convinced by it either. But on the bright side, this whole market provides excellent betting opportunities. So far I've managed to lay Ken Clarke, Jo Swinson, Nigel Farage, Keir Starmer and John Bercow all at odds below 30 for next Prime Minister (usually well below), and I'm hoping to add to this tally with other equally exciting propositions.
  • rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Though only 1 in 6 Unionists in Northern Ireland back the backstop in the same poll
    NI's populace doesn't consist solely of Unionists...
    Its largest county, Antrim, is still 2/3 Unionist
    Really? The population of Northern Ireland support the backstop by nearly 3:2, but it's fine to ignore their wishes because 5 out of 6 people, who make up 2 out of 3 people in one part of NI are opposed?

    I'm glad you aren't involved in drawing up constituency boundaries.
    Yes absolutely. Because of the principles behind the Good Friday Agreement.

    The principle is one of compromise and consensus between the communities not one community forcing their will upon the other.

    The Irish are standing firm behind the nationalist community and ignoring the unionists. So I have no qualms supporting the unionists and ignoring the nationalists. When the communities can come together we can have compromise.

    That won't happen until the crisis comes to the fore. We need to trigger a crisis on the border or we won't have any compromise.
    So it's okay to impose a hard border on one community, but not okay to impose the backstop on the other?

    Nice to see that the British record for impartiality is maintained.
    A hard border won't be imposed though it will be the default state for failure to reach an agreement. Once an agreement is reached it will go away.

    The backstop isn't due to failure it is imposition and unacceptable.
    The backstop rewards the EU for negotiating in bad faith. It is why it should have been filed under "FUCK OFF!!!" the moment it was proposed.
    That would have been a bit tricky seeing as it was proposed by the UK...
    Not that old bulls**t again. No it wasn't.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772


    That's not even the most inappropriate post this week, let alone in the 4 months you've been around.

    I'm sure there must be a site for Leaver snowflakes out there somewhere.

    I've been an daily reader from the early days of the site.

    And it isn't a question of being overly sensitive, it is a question of basic decency which unfortunately the poster in question showed little of with his comments.

    We all have off days though and we are certainly in febrile times.

    IMHO the Captain is right on this, even though I think he is rather the opposite of a leftie Remainer like me. We should all dial it down a bit - after all, it's REALLY UNLIKELY that anything we say here will make the slightest difference. I was slightly startled to see my Labour List idea apparently taken up by Corbyn, but otherwise have no illusions about my lack of influence, and I shouldn't think most of us are any different.
    Maybe I lead a sheltered online existence, but PB is by far the most extreme social media site that I visit. I'm in a few Fire Service and FBU groups on various platforms, and none of them seem to reach the level of vitriol and personal abuse that is now the norm on here, even when Brexit and Tories are discussed!. Many on here think PB is the kiddy when it comes to serious politics, but it's in danger of turning people off with it's mostly black and white views on Brexit-You're either a leaver or remainer, with nowhere in between.
    As I've commented many times, Brexit has turned you all crazy!
    You lead a sheltered existence online! And I think there are many (even most?) posters who would accept/tolerate a compromise brexit whether soft Brexit or Mays deal. It is no deal and revoke that understandably produce the strong opinions.
    Indeed. I am Remainer, but can accept the result and leaving in a graceful, sensible fashion. EFTA would have been a good compromise. I think we will end up rejoining down the track.

    But I cannot accept No Deal. It is economic suicide.

  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Operation Yellowhammer - written by the fifth columnist collaborators in the civil service. Time for a purge.

    The problem with Benedict Arnold isn't that he was called a traitor.

    Collaborators and traitors need to be removed from office. Though if this was written as a worst case problem identifying exercise then that is sensible. The leaker though is a traitor.
    Just in case it's not obvious, I wasn't being serious.
    I am.

    I don't want violence but anyone who is working for the government and undermining their government while collaborators with our enemy in these negotiations is a traitor. They should be fired if they can't recuse themselves.

    Blimey! There really are no words beyond that!!

  • John Bercow is now available on Betfair's exchange.

    I have put £2 down, simply because it is so utterly bonkers that it will probably happen!
    That was my money laying you, I think. Feel free to invest more.
    I get the feeling you're not convinced by my Bercow as next PM theory.
    I'm not sure you're convinced by it either. But on the bright side, this whole market provides excellent betting opportunities. So far I've managed to lay Ken Clarke, Jo Swinson, Nigel Farage, Keir Starmer and John Bercow all at odds below 30 for next Prime Minister (usually well below), and I'm hoping to add to this tally with other equally exciting propositions.
    Yes I'm not convinced by it either but at 500/1 I'm tempted.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Any price on Natalie Portman for next PM ?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Operation Yellowhammer - written by the fifth columnist collaborators in the civil service. Time for a purge.

    The problem with Benedict Arnold isn't that he was called a traitor.

    Collaborators and traitors need to be removed from office. Though if this was written as a worst case problem identifying exercise then that is sensible. The leaker though is a traitor.
    Just in case it's not obvious, I wasn't being serious.
    I am.

    I don't want violence but anyone who is working for the government and undermining their government while collaborators with our enemy in these negotiations is a traitor. They should be fired if they can't recuse themselves.
    The EU are not "our enemy".
  • Any idea if more rain is forecast at Lords? When can we declare?

    Only the batting team can declare.

  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Operation Yellowhammer - written by the fifth columnist collaborators in the civil service. Time for a purge.

    The problem with Benedict Arnold isn't that he was called a traitor.

    Collaborators and traitors need to be removed from office. Though if this was written as a worst case problem identifying exercise then that is sensible. The leaker though is a traitor.
    Just in case it's not obvious, I wasn't being serious.
    I am.

    I don't want violence but anyone who is working for the government and undermining their government while collaborators with our enemy in these negotiations is a traitor. They should be fired if they can't recuse themselves.
    The EU are not "our enemy".

    For a lot of the English nationalist hard right, they are. And this is a central Brexit problem. It cannot be deemed a success for these looks (and by his words young Philip has revealed himself to be such) unless the EU is seen to be defeated.

  • Any idea if more rain is forecast at Lords? When can we declare?

    Only the batting team can declare.

    We are batting.
  • Any idea if more rain is forecast at Lords? When can we declare?

    Only the batting team can declare.

    We are batting.

    Not until Engalnd declare or you bowl us out.

  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Operation Yellowhammer - written by the fifth columnist collaborators in the civil service. Time for a purge.

    The problem with Benedict Arnold isn't that he was called a traitor.

    Collaborators and traitors need to be removed from office. Though if this was written as a worst case problem identifying exercise then that is sensible. The leaker though is a traitor.
    Just in case it's not obvious, I wasn't being serious.
    I am.

    I don't want violence but anyone who is working for the government and undermining their government while collaborators with our enemy in these negotiations is a traitor. They should be fired if they can't recuse themselves.
    The EU are not "our enemy".
    For as long as they insist upon the undemocratic backstop they absolutely are.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
  • booksellerbookseller Posts: 507

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Though only 1 in 6 Unionists in Northern Ireland back the backstop in the same poll
    NI's populace doesn't consist solely of Unionists...
    Its largest county, Antrim, is still 2/3 Unionist
    Really? The population of Northern Ireland support the backstop by nearly 3:2, but it's fine to ignore their wishes because 5 out of 6 people, who make up 2 out of 3 people in one part of NI are opposed?

    I'm glad you aren't involved in drawing up constituency boundaries.
    Yes absolutely. Because of the principles behind the Good Friday Agreement.

    The principle is one of compromise and consensus between the communities not one community forcing their will upon the other.

    The Irish are standing firm behind the nationalist community and ignoring the unionists. So I have no qualms supporting the unionists and ignoring the nationalists. When the communities can come together we can have compromise.

    That won't happen until the crisis comes to the fore. We need to trigger a crisis on the border or we won't have any compromise.
    So it's okay to impose a hard border on one community, but not okay to impose the backstop on the other?

    Nice to see that the British record for impartiality is maintained.
    A hard border won't be imposed though it will be the default state for failure to reach an agreement. Once an agreement is reached it will go away.

    The backstop isn't due to failure it is imposition and unacceptable.
    The backstop rewards the EU for negotiating in bad faith. It is why it should have been filed under "FUCK OFF!!!" the moment it was proposed.
    That would have been a bit tricky seeing as it was proposed by the UK...
    Not that old bulls**t again. No it wasn't.
    https://www.rte.ie/amp/1005373/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    TGOHF said:

    Any price on Natalie Portman for next PM ?

    She's not eligible. Although an Israeli national as PM would be acceptable to Priti Patel and might just cause the Corbynistas to self-combust.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Remainer headbangers now darkly mentioning public inquiries and 'show trials' with their favourite Brexit pantomime villains up on the stand.

    Gives you an idea just how unpleasant the forces ranged against implementing the 2016 result are.

    If there are to be 'show trials' then it should be those traitors who connived with the EU to undermine the democratic will of 17m+ voters.

    Or,

    We could be grown up and respect a democracy built on centuries of fairness and find a way to implement the result not subvert it for the sake of a rotting carcass of an institution that doesn't want us sulking on the sidelines anyway.

    I’d remind you Leavers have actually murdered one MP and attempted to murder another one.

    You’re quite on that.
    Surely only one person was convicted of the murder. Are you implying with your inaccuracy that ,leavers are somehow more likely to murder people than the rest of us. If so what is the basis for such a strange claim?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    As the Treasury predictions broadly turned out, with the exception of employment, the real scandal is people falsely presenting this work as a lie.
    STOP LYING

    The Treasury predicted an immediate year long recession after a Leave vote.

    2.44 In both scenarios, a vote to leave the EU would result in a recession. Setting the shock scenario against the OBR’s Budget 2016 forecast, the analysis shows that immediately following a vote to leave the EU, the economy would be pushed into recession with four quarters of negative growth.
    Don't you accuse me of lying, despicable person.

    These are the relevant figures from the report:

    Immediate impact of a vote to leave the EU on the UK (% difference from base level unless specified otherwise)
    Shock scenarioa Severe shock scenarioa
    GDP -3.6% -6.0%
    CPI inflation rate (percentage points) +2.3 +2.7
    Unemployment rate (percentage points) +1.6 +2.4
    Unemployment (level) +520,000 +820,000
    Average real wages -2.8% -4.0%
    House prices -10% -18%
    Sterling exchange rate index -12% -15%
    Public sector net borrowing (£ billion) b +£24 billion +£39 billion
    a
    Peak impact over two years. Unemployment level rounded to the nearest 10,000. b
    Fiscal year 2017-18.

    Relative to Remain.
    I reckon turnout relative to (Treasury prediction) approximately as follows:

    GDP -2% (-3.6%)
    CPI inflation rate (% points) +2.8 (+2.3)
    Unemployment rate (percentage points) 0 (+1.6)
    Average real wages -2.5% (-2.8%)
    House prices -5% (-10%)
    Sterling exchange rate index -15% (-12%)
    Public sector net borrowing +£5 billion (+£24 billion)
    I don't respond to people who accuse me of lying. Nevertheless I point out to anyone else who might be interested that the Treasury Report is relative to the base Remain case. The whole point of any such report is to see the effects of a policy. The UK economy will perform worse than it would otherwise do, regardless of whether the world economy is on the up or down. If you tend to dismiss the effects of Brexit, you won't accept any worldwide recession is caused by Brexit, and nor should you. The same applies in reverse. The Treasury makes it clear these are changes are relative to base.
  • If you have read Travellers in the Third Reich you will know that there were very clear signs and strongly flashing red lights all along the road that Germany travelled between 1930 and 1939.

    The UK is probably winter 1931 into 1932 at this stage.
  • MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:


    Then STOP LYING.

    This is what you said:

    FF43 said:


    As the Treasury predictions broadly turned out, with the exception of employment, the real scandal is people falsely presenting this work as a lie.

    The Treasury predicted an immediate four quarter recession AND THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

    So it didn't 'broadly turn out'.

    GDP increased, unemployment fell, house prices rose, government borrowing reduced.
    Yes because the BoE took action.
    Honestly, on the road not taken where the Bank didn't cut interest rates the result would have been basically the same.

    The slowdown we're seeing now is what the treasury expected after the vote, they were wrong.
    Some Remainers need to accept that the Treasury was wrong and that official predictions aren't holy writ.

    There's more than enough to worry about in the everyday practicalities as I keep saying.

    The danger is in the little things.

    To do A you need to tick box X.

    And if you cannot tick box X then things begin to grind to a halt.

    Its no good some posturing politician saying that box X should be ignored.

    Because in the real world people who ignore box X get inspected, fined, prosecuted and sacked.

    So the person who's job it is to tick box X will still insist on doing so.

    And there's an endless multitude of box Xs in this country.

    That should be far more concerning to people than doom and disaster claims.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    If you have read Travellers in the Third Reich you will know that there were very clear signs and strongly flashing red lights all along the road that Germany travelled between 1930 and 1939.

    The UK is probably winter 1931 into 1932 at this stage.

    Bit harsh and inappropriate to compare Merkel to Adolf. Think you need a lie down SO.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    "Collaborators".

    "Traitors".

    "The enemy."

    I had an early night last night. Have I hugely overslept and we are now somewhere in France ca. 1940?
  • TGOHF said:
    What the government of Gibraltar forgot to say is that all its plans are almpst entirely dependent on the goodwill of the Spanish government. Just as the UK will be entirely dependent on the goodwill of others after a No Deal Brexit. That is the reality of taking back control.

  • TGOHF said:

    If you have read Travellers in the Third Reich you will know that there were very clear signs and strongly flashing red lights all along the road that Germany travelled between 1930 and 1939.

    The UK is probably winter 1931 into 1932 at this stage.

    Bit harsh and inappropriate to compare Merkel to Adolf. Think you need a lie down SO.

    Given how completely you have misunderstood my post, I think you need the lie down, dear boy x

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Cyclefree said:

    "Collaborators".

    "Traitors".

    "The enemy."

    I had an early night last night. Have I hugely overslept and we are now somewhere in France ca. 1940?

    It's more like Secret Army acted out by the cast of 'Allo 'Allo.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    If you have read Travellers in the Third Reich you will know that there were very clear signs and strongly flashing red lights all along the road that Germany travelled between 1930 and 1939.

    The UK is probably winter 1931 into 1932 at this stage.

    Getting the Olympics back in 2024 then.

    Every cloud.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Cyclefree said:

    "Collaborators".

    "Traitors".

    "The enemy."

    I had an early night last night. Have I hugely overslept and we are now somewhere in France ca. 1940?

    There's certainly a Laval of bitterness on here this morning.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Operation Yellowhammer - written by the fifth columnist collaborators in the civil service. Time for a purge.

    The problem with Benedict Arnold isn't that he was called a traitor.

    Collaborators and traitors need to be removed from office. Though if this was written as a worst case problem identifying exercise then that is sensible. The leaker though is a traitor.
    Just in case it's not obvious, I wasn't being serious.
    I am.

    I don't want violence but anyone who is working for the government and undermining their government while collaborators with our enemy in these negotiations is a traitor. They should be fired if they can't recuse themselves.
    The EU are not "our enemy".
    Maybe not, but they do sit on the opposite side of the negotiation table.
  • So ydoethur is half way towards his threesome :wink:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Cyclefree said:

    "Collaborators".

    "Traitors".

    "The enemy."

    I had an early night last night. Have I hugely overslept and we are now somewhere in France ca. 1940?

    It's more like Secret Army acted out by the cast of 'Allo 'Allo.
    Well, there has been plenty of good moaning on here recently.
  • ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    "Collaborators".

    "Traitors".

    "The enemy."

    I had an early night last night. Have I hugely overslept and we are now somewhere in France ca. 1940?

    There's certainly a Laval of bitterness on here this morning.
    The King of Vichy Thinking?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    "Collaborators".

    "Traitors".

    "The enemy."

    I had an early night last night. Have I hugely overslept and we are now somewhere in France ca. 1940?

    It's more like Secret Army acted out by the cast of 'Allo 'Allo.
    Completely off topic: one of the actors in 'Allo 'Allo (Richard Marner) was a great friend of my father and used to take me from the age of about 14 onwards to various racing tracks round the country so that I can learn about racing and betting. It was all hugely enjoyable and, beginner that I was, I used to win quite regularly, which amused and infuriated in equal measure the faintly disreputable crowd I was with.
This discussion has been closed.