We knew this "offer" from Corbyn would come along sooner or later. From a bleakly practical perspective, it wouldn't help the LDs, Greens or the SNP (or even Plaid) to be seen to be in any way endorsing an individual as politically toxic as Jeremy Corbyn. To do so would be to hand the Conservatives and their friends in the media an enormous gift which they could run with every day from now till the GE and beyond.
Surely it is only the Lib Dems for whom this offer is a problem? And even there, only in some parts of the country.
It was an opening gambit. If it is the only way to stop no brexit they might well reverse ferret in a few weeks.
Suicide for the LDs would have been to put Corbyn in Downing Street, however temporarily. It would have been used against the Party by the Conservatives and their media friends and the first law of politics is you don't hand your opponents a stick with which to beat you.
There will be far more LD voters and supporters happy we have rebuffed this opportunistic overture from Corbyn than those disappointed we have somehow empowered a "No Deal" Brexit (which we haven't and for which Labour deserve much more opprobrium).
Stodge has it bang on and I don't think it will impact on LAB-LD switchers. They hate the antisemitic-stained LAB leader as much as anyone. The Tories would have a field day if Swinson did anything to empower Corbyn.
I agree, from my experience canvassing in the last month I have found a few Tory switchers to the LDs or Brexit Party, I have yet to find a single Tory 2017 voter who has switched to Corbyn Labour.
It was an opening gambit. If it is the only way to stop no brexit they might well reverse ferret in a few weeks.
Suicide for the LDs would have been to put Corbyn in Downing Street, however temporarily. It would have been used against the Party by the Conservatives and their media friends and the first law of politics is you don't hand your opponents a stick with which to beat you.
There will be far more LD voters and supporters happy we have rebuffed this opportunistic overture from Corbyn than those disappointed we have somehow empowered a "No Deal" Brexit (which we haven't and for which Labour deserve much more opprobrium).
Stodge has it bang on and I don't think it will impact on LAB-LD switchers. They hate the antisemitic-stained LAB leader as much as anyone. The Tories would have a field day if Swinson did anything to empower Corbyn.
I agree, from my experience canvassing in the last month I have found a few Tory switchers to the LDs or Brexit Party, I have yet to find a single Tory 2017 voter who has switched to Corbyn Labour.
Propping up Corbyn would be suicide for the LDs
Do I detect a slight nervousness ?
With every current poll giving a Tory lead none at all, with Survation and Yougov both putting the LDs closer to Corbyn Labour than Corbyn Labour are to the Tories if I was a Corbynite I would certainly be nervous
Somebody over at alternatehistory.com is doing a timeline for the elections leading up to the "V for Vendetta" world. Norsefire just won the 1990 election, beating Neil Kinnock's Labour and James Prior's Conservatives. It's really good, so pop over there and have a look if you have a few minutes.
Well, given that you are all entertaining yourselves with impossible leaders of an improbable GNU, it might be appropriate...
Link? (there are a lot of threads on that site!)
I am on the tablet and so cannot cut-and-paste. In stead I shall describe it
Site: alternatehistory.com Discussion: Alternate history Discussion: After 1900 Entry: "Remember, Remember, The Fifth Of November: Britain 1981-1990" Last entry: Tuesday at 7:36 pm
Hopefully that is enough detail for you to find it.
Nah you don't get to pull that one. Your MPs voted wholesale against the most sensible and, by you and me, preferred way of leaving the EU. If we leave without a deal it is all down to remainer Labour MPs who voted against the WA every time. Even that twat Boris Johnson saw the light and eventually voted for it at third time of asking.
You seem to have given up and be positioning yourself for the blame game.
Me, I'm still on the practicalities of stopping Brexit (assuming my view that BoJo will extend and get the WA through is bollox, which it probably is given nobody else seems to share it.)
So, this GNU under PM Not Corbyn, even in the unlikely event of it forming, all it can feasibly do is extend for a general election.
Then, for Brexit to be stopped (via Ref2), that election has to put somebody other than Boris Johnson into Number 10.
And the only realistic alternative to Boris Johnson is ...
Jeremy Corbyn!
That's right, isn't it? I can't see that I'm missing anything.
As someone put it succinctly, the Liberal Democrats currently in the HoC is a rounding error.
The majority in the House of Commons is not even that.
It was an opening gambit. If it is the only way to stop no brexit they might well reverse ferret in a few weeks.
Suicide for the LDs would have been to put Corbyn in Downing Street, however temporarily. It would have been used against the Party by the Conservatives and their media friends and the first law of politics is you don't hand your opponents a stick with which to beat you.
There will be far more LD voters and supporters happy we have rebuffed this opportunistic overture from Corbyn than those disappointed we have somehow empowered a "No Deal" Brexit (which we haven't and for which Labour deserve much more opprobrium).
Stodge has it bang on and I don't think it will impact on LAB-LD switchers. They hate the antisemitic-stained LAB leader as much as anyone. The Tories would have a field day if Swinson did anything to empower Corbyn.
He does not .nor do you. Swinson should have said , what Lucas said below. Proves in reality Lib dems do not want to stop no deal in all circumstances.
Strong empirical evidence that nationalism is bollocks...
https://phys.org/news/2019-08-won-war-sayseveryone.html Ask any of the few remaining World War II veterans what they did during the war and you're likely to get a humble answer. But ask the person on the street how important their country's contribution to the war effort was and you'll probably hear something far less modest. A new study suggests people from Germany, Russia, the UK and the US on average all think their own country shouldered more than half the burden of winning World War II....
IMO Mike is fundamentally wrong - I live in the sort of seat where the LibDems really need Labour tactical votes and could well win. Up to recently I've known half a dozen Labour voters (two of them members) who were quietly going to do it. None of them are Corbyn fans. They are all alienated by Swinson's tactics, which seem to them to be putting party realignment (which they are at best ambiguous about) before stopping No Deal Brexit (which they are passionate about). She needs to at least seem to be open to a deal with all the Stop No Deal MPs, and when she rejects up to 200 of them out of hand, she is throwing away tactical "Bollocks to Brexit" votes in any election by the bucketload.
Useful input, thanks.
Belatedly, useful in the sense of a ultra-loyalist says ultra-loyal things with no expectation that he will be called on it. So not really useful at all unless you believe that it’s an objective truth. And not partisan half-truths.
If TOPPING, mysticrose, et. al. prefer No Deal under Boris to 2nd Ref under Corbyn, that's up to them. The question is do all LD voters agree? I suspect a significant chunk don't.
Therein lies one of the MASSIVE questions regarding a snap Brexit election this year if we get one.
If tons of Labs are prepared to vote LD in Con/LD contests AND tons of LDs are prepared to vote Lab in Con/Lab ones, it's going to be tough for the Great Man to win, despite being an A list celeb, and despite a ruthless campaign pushing all the national populist buttons.
But we do need both flanks. If LDs flunk it because they cannot stomach Jez then I'm afraid that's PM Johnson and Brexit under a right wing Tory government.
If TOPPING, mysticrose, et. al. prefer No Deal under Boris to 2nd Ref under Corbyn, that's up to them. The question is do all LD voters agree? I suspect a significant chunk don't.
Therein lies one of the MASSIVE questions regarding a snap Brexit election this year if we get one.
If tons of Labs are prepared to vote LD in Con/LD contests AND tons of LDs are prepared to vote Lab in Con/Lab ones, it's going to be tough for the Great Man to win, despite being an A list celeb, and despite a ruthless campaign pushing all the national populist buttons.
But we do need both flanks. If LDs flunk it because they cannot stomach Jez then I'm afraid that's PM Johnson and Brexit under a right wing Tory government.
I hate to point this out, but the LDs are very good at flunking it.
Having read Corbyn's letter, am I right in assuming that he intends to delay the departure date, call an election and if Labour wins, negotiate and new deal, put that deal to a second referendum and oppose Remain in that vote? Thus confirm Labour as a Leave party
Pretty much, hence the LDs and SNP won't touch him
My take is that Boris has no intention of doing a 'no deal'. He wants to give the impression of going flat out to implement Brexit and to prepare for no deal. But he knows that parliament will stop him, and at that point he will have the casus belli for a general election, staying on the front foot:
Just look at me doing everything I can to implement the will of the people while these f*ckers in parliament keep pulling out the rug. Let's be done with them - give me a majority for Brexit. At the same time he is playing up the danger and uncertainty of VONC. Certainly he's got under the skin of his detractors. I suspect that Cummings knows what he is doing and things are going to plan.
Yep. but to implement that plan, he's going to have to stick a bunch of new Conservative candidates in to replace those Tory f*ckers.....
My take is that Boris has no intention of doing a 'no deal'. He wants to give the impression of going flat out to implement Brexit and to prepare for no deal. But he knows that parliament will stop him, and at that point he will have the casus belli for a general election, staying on the front foot:
Just look at me doing everything I can to implement the will of the people while these f*ckers in parliament keep pulling out the rug. Let's be done with them - give me a majority for Brexit. At the same time he is playing up the danger and uncertainty of VONC. Certainly he's got under the skin of his detractors. I suspect that Cummings knows what he is doing and things are going to plan.
Yep. but to implement that plan, he's going to have to stick a bunch of new Conservative candidates in to replace those Tory f*ckers.....
Optimistically, I think it's positive that the opposition parties are at least talking to each other about VoNC and plans for a new GE. That's the way out of this mess.
For my part, I would be perfectly happy for a caretaker govt led by anyone trustworthy to extend a50 and call a new GE. Provided it lasts a matter of weeks only, seems fine to me.
Corbyn should start thinking about who he trusts to do this. If the stop No Deal gang manage to mess this up, there will be a lot of enraged voters out there.
Please explain how it is a way out of this mess?
Easy. The current parliament cannot decide. The next one should be able to, either by coalescing behind ref 2 (Lab, LD, SNP) or leave with No Deal (Tory/Brexit). One of those blocs should win and will work together to secure their preferred outcome.
The problem is that 'leave with No Deal' is not the Tory policy. Johnson is bluffing and everyone* knows it.
(*) Not everyone.
Doesn't matter if he's bluffing, the EU will call his bluff, and we will leave with No Deal. That will resolve the current impasse pretty dramatically.
If it's a bluff then by definition he will fold.
No, if you bluff and the other guy calls you lose.
Strong empirical evidence that nationalism is bollocks...
https://phys.org/news/2019-08-won-war-sayseveryone.html Ask any of the few remaining World War II veterans what they did during the war and you're likely to get a humble answer. But ask the person on the street how important their country's contribution to the war effort was and you'll probably hear something far less modest. A new study suggests people from Germany, Russia, the UK and the US on average all think their own country shouldered more than half the burden of winning World War II....
Very true. I grew up in the 1960s and 1970s when pretty much everyone over about 30 could remember the war but the older generation very rarely talked about it. People viewed it as a terrible experience best left in the past. Few people wore poppies and I can't remember any organised remembrance events at school. Many people had been through horrific wartime experiences but talking about them was taboo. I recently learned that one of my teachers (I was at school in the 1970s) was a child refugee who escaped from the Nazis on one of the kindertransports - this was a complete surprise to me, and I guess all the others she taught 50 years ago - such things were not discussed at that time.
Nah you don't get to pull that one. Your MPs voted wholesale against the most sensible and, by you and me, preferred way of leaving the EU. If we leave without a deal it is all down to remainer Labour MPs who voted against the WA every time. Even that twat Boris Johnson saw the light and eventually voted for it at third time of asking.
You seem to have given up and be positioning yourself for the blame game.
Me, I'm still on the practicalities of stopping Brexit (assuming my view that BoJo will extend and get the WA through is bollox, which it probably is given nobody else seems to share it.)
So, this GNU under PM Not Corbyn, even in the unlikely event of it forming, all it can feasibly do is extend for a general election.
Then, for Brexit to be stopped (via Ref2), that election has to put somebody other than Boris Johnson into Number 10.
And the only realistic alternative to Boris Johnson is ...
Jeremy Corbyn!
That's right, isn't it? I can't see that I'm missing anything.
I'm in the game of working out what's going on right now. Blame? That would be the 17.4m people who voted Leave and I don't think they see it in terms of blame. Kudos rather. But anyway, the fact remains that anyone, including Labour Party MPs, members and you (if you are neither of those) plus definitely anyone in any other political party would be insane to endorse, support or in any other way help that known anti-semite and idiot Jeremy Corbyn get anywhere near power.
Optimistically, I think it's positive that the opposition parties are at least talking to each other about VoNC and plans for a new GE. That's the way out of this mess.
For my part, I would be perfectly happy for a caretaker govt led by anyone trustworthy to extend a50 and call a new GE. Provided it lasts a matter of weeks only, seems fine to me.
Corbyn should start thinking about who he trusts to do this. If the stop No Deal gang manage to mess this up, there will be a lot of enraged voters out there.
Please explain how it is a way out of this mess?
Easy. The current parliament cannot decide. The next one should be able to, either by coalescing behind ref 2 (Lab, LD, SNP) or leave with No Deal (Tory/Brexit). One of those blocs should win and will work together to secure their preferred outcome.
The problem is that 'leave with No Deal' is not the Tory policy. Johnson is bluffing and everyone* knows it.
(*) Not everyone.
Doesn't matter if he's bluffing, the EU will call his bluff, and we will leave with No Deal. That will resolve the current impasse pretty dramatically.
If it's a bluff then by definition he will fold.
No, if you bluff and the other guy calls you lose.
Losing in this case can mean being politically humiliated and forced to do the thing you promised not to do.
Corbyn's proposal of a temporary government, led by a caretaker PM who happens to be himself, looks to me like a mistake. The reason for this is very simple: it's clearly an idea of some merit in itself, but by using the terms 'caretaker' and 'interim', promising not to implement any Labour policies as this caretaker PM, he has surely left himself open to a completely unanswerable argument: if we're going to have a caretaker PM, supported across parties, surely that person has to be someone who is NOT going to be fighting the next election as leader of one of the parties?
In fact, it's obvious that the best candidate for such a temporary post would be someone who is not even standing as an MP at the next election, so as to be completely untainted by any consideration of personal ambition or partisan calculation. Add to that the fact that Corbyn is one of the most divisive figures in parliament, doesn't even have the confidence of his own MPs, and is the last person that LibDems, independent and Tory MPs might wish to see in No 10, this initiative looks like at best a silly stunt, and probably a trap for himself. He has no answer to the question of why the caretaker PM he proposes shouldn't be a genuine caretaker.
Churchill continued as caretaker PM in May 1945 when the Coalition Government ended and went on to lead the Tories at the July election.
Having read Corbyn's letter, am I right in assuming that he intends to delay the departure date, call an election and if Labour wins, negotiate and new deal, put that deal to a second referendum and oppose Remain in that vote? Thus confirm Labour as a Leave party
Pretty much, hence the LDs and SNP won't touch him
You are wrong about the SNP.
The SNP will if it they can play it for an advantage in an indy ref..
Stodge has it bang on and I don't think it will impact on LAB-LD switchers. They hate the antisemitic-stained LAB leader as much as anyone. The Tories would have a field day if Swinson did anything to empower Corbyn.
We obviously talk to different people (and I know you're one of the tactical voting group yourself), but I've talked to literally thousands. There is a large pool of Lab/LD floating voters who are not driven by their views on Corbyn or Swinson but simply want to stop Brexit and get rid of the Tories. Swinson is playing it for tactical advantage and is IMO alienating a large chunk of those.
All six of the voters I mentioned voted LibDem in the local elections (I'm being discreet about the two members who admitted it!). None of them will now vote LibDem in this LibDem target seat, unless Swinson moderates her stance - she doesn't need to say she likes Corbyn, merely that she will do whatever turns out to be necessary to stop No Deal. I've obviously not spoken to thousands of people this week, but I really doubt if they're unusual.
Stodge has it bang on and I don't think it will impact on LAB-LD switchers. They hate the antisemitic-stained LAB leader as much as anyone. The Tories would have a field day if Swinson did anything to empower Corbyn.
We obviously talk to different people (and I know you're one of the tactical voting group yourself), but I've talked to literally thousands. There is a large pool of Lab/LD floating voters who are not driven by their views on Corbyn or Swinson but simply want to stop Brexit and get rid of the Tories. Swinson is playing it for tactical advantage and is IMO alienating a large chunk of those.
All six of the voters I mentioned voted LibDem in the local elections (I'm being discreet about the two members who admitted it!). None of them will now vote LibDem in this LibDem target seat, unless Swinson moderates her stance - she doesn't need to say she likes Corbyn, merely that she will do whatever turns out to be necessary to stop No Deal. I've obviously not spoken to thousands of people this week, but I really doubt if they're unusual.
Swinson saying it can't be Corbyn because apart from anything else he's toxic to Tories, but it could be someone like Harman or Clarke = 'playing it for tactical advantage'
Corbyn saying it has to be, err, Corbyn, and absolutely no-one else, isn't 'playing it for tactical advantage', no, of course not. Whatever could have made a brief suspicion that it might be flit across my mind?
Stodge has it bang on and I don't think it will impact on LAB-LD switchers. They hate the antisemitic-stained LAB leader as much as anyone. The Tories would have a field day if Swinson did anything to empower Corbyn.
We obviously talk to different people (and I know you're one of the tactical voting group yourself), but I've talked to literally thousands. There is a large pool of Lab/LD floating voters who are not driven by their views on Corbyn or Swinson but simply want to stop Brexit and get rid of the Tories. Swinson is playing it for tactical advantage and is IMO alienating a large chunk of those.
All six of the voters I mentioned voted LibDem in the local elections (I'm being discreet about the two members who admitted it!). None of them will now vote LibDem in this LibDem target seat, unless Swinson moderates her stance - she doesn't need to say she likes Corbyn, merely that she will do whatever turns out to be necessary to stop No Deal. I've obviously not spoken to thousands of people this week, but I really doubt if they're unusual.
Nick may well be right, but Swinson's problem is that she also has to appeal to Remain-voting Tories in order to bring together a coalition of voters large enough to win seats. Aiding and abetting Corbyn in any way would be catastrophic and write off any ambitions the LibDems have in places like SW England.
It was an opening gambit. If it is the only way to stop no brexit they might well reverse ferret in a few weeks.
Suicide for the LDs would have been to put Corbyn in Downing Street, however temporarily. It would have been used against the Party by the Conservatives and their media friends and the first law of politics is you don't hand your opponents a stick with which to beat you.
There will be far more LD voters and supporters happy we have rebuffed this opportunistic overture from Corbyn than those disappointed we have somehow empowered a "No Deal" Brexit (which we haven't and for which Labour deserve much more opprobrium).
Stodge has it bang on and I don't think it will impact on LAB-LD switchers. They hate the antisemitic-stained LAB leader as much as anyone. The Tories would have a field day if Swinson did anything to empower Corbyn.
He does not .nor do you. Swinson should have said , what Lucas said below. Proves in reality Lib dems do not want to stop no deal in all circumstances.
No. It proves that Corbyn is electoral poison - something that the majority od LAB MPs know
Strong empirical evidence that nationalism is bollocks...
https://phys.org/news/2019-08-won-war-sayseveryone.html Ask any of the few remaining World War II veterans what they did during the war and you're likely to get a humble answer. But ask the person on the street how important their country's contribution to the war effort was and you'll probably hear something far less modest. A new study suggests people from Germany, Russia, the UK and the US on average all think their own country shouldered more than half the burden of winning World War II....
Very true. I grew up in the 1960s and 1970s when pretty much everyone over about 30 could remember the war but the older generation very rarely talked about it. People viewed it as a terrible experience best left in the past. Few people wore poppies and I can't remember any organised remembrance events at school. Many people had been through horrific wartime experiences but talking about them was taboo. I recently learned that one of my teachers (I was at school in the 1970s) was a child refugee who escaped from the Nazis on one of the kindertransports - this was a complete surprise to me, and I guess all the others she taught 50 years ago - such things were not discussed at that time.
My parents talked about life in the war a lot. The crawling out of the anderson shelter and wondering if it was our hourse or the neighbours house that got bombed. The learning that hearing the buzzing of a Doodlebug was OK, hearing the buzz stop was the time to hide. In my life Memorial Day was a memorial to those who died, on all sides, and to remind us how bad war is. My mother once took me to some old guy's house (a relative of a friend of hers) who had an old union jack flying on a tree branch. He explained to me that was the anniversary of the day he was freed from a Japanese POW camp and he did this every year.
I would not say that talking about the war in that generation was taboo, but those times were certainly not looked back on as glorious years.
It was an opening gambit. If it is the only way to stop no brexit they might well reverse ferret in a few weeks.
Suicide for the LDs would have been to put Corbyn in Downing Street, however temporarily. It would have been used against the Party by the Conservatives and their media friends and the first law of politics is you don't hand your opponents a stick with which to beat you.
There will be far more LD voters and supporters happy we have rebuffed this opportunistic overture from Corbyn than those disappointed we have somehow empowered a "No Deal" Brexit (which we haven't and for which Labour deserve much more opprobrium).
Stodge has it bang on and I don't think it will impact on LAB-LD switchers. They hate the antisemitic-stained LAB leader as much as anyone. The Tories would have a field day if Swinson did anything to empower Corbyn.
He does not .nor do you. Swinson should have said , what Lucas said below. Proves in reality Lib dems do not want to stop no deal in all circumstances.
No. It proves that Corbyn is electoral poison - something that the majority od LAB MPs know
As he was at the Copeland by election in late February 2017.
Stodge has it bang on and I don't think it will impact on LAB-LD switchers. They hate the antisemitic-stained LAB leader as much as anyone. The Tories would have a field day if Swinson did anything to empower Corbyn.
We obviously talk to different people (and I know you're one of the tactical voting group yourself), but I've talked to literally thousands. There is a large pool of Lab/LD floating voters who are not driven by their views on Corbyn or Swinson but simply want to stop Brexit and get rid of the Tories. Swinson is playing it for tactical advantage and is IMO alienating a large chunk of those.
All six of the voters I mentioned voted LibDem in the local elections (I'm being discreet about the two members who admitted it!). None of them will now vote LibDem in this LibDem target seat, unless Swinson moderates her stance - she doesn't need to say she likes Corbyn, merely that she will do whatever turns out to be necessary to stop No Deal. I've obviously not spoken to thousands of people this week, but I really doubt if they're unusual.
Labour should recognise the sense in leaving the LibDems to chase votes in Surrey and hot foot it off to the Midlands where it is very vulnerable to the Tories.
Stodge has it bang on and I don't think it will impact on LAB-LD switchers. They hate the antisemitic-stained LAB leader as much as anyone. The Tories would have a field day if Swinson did anything to empower Corbyn.
We obviously talk to different people (and I know you're one of the tactical voting group yourself), but I've talked to literally thousands. There is a large pool of Lab/LD floating voters who are not driven by their views on Corbyn or Swinson but simply want to stop Brexit and get rid of the Tories. Swinson is playing it for tactical advantage and is IMO alienating a large chunk of those.
All six of the voters I mentioned voted LibDem in the local elections (I'm being discreet about the two members who admitted it!). None of them will now vote LibDem in this LibDem target seat, unless Swinson moderates her stance - she doesn't need to say she likes Corbyn, merely that she will do whatever turns out to be necessary to stop No Deal. I've obviously not spoken to thousands of people this week, but I really doubt if they're unusual.
Swinson saying it can't be Corbyn because apart from anything else he's toxic to Tories, but it could be someone like Harman or Clarke = 'playing it for tactical advantage'
Corbyn saying it has to be, err, Corbyn, and absolutely no-one else, isn't 'playing it for tactical advantage', no, of course not. Whatever could have made a brief suspicion that it might be flit across my mind?
Because if Corbyn enables Harman/Clarke being appointed PM, he loses out massively. He's the Leader or the Opposition, and is the obvious choice to lead the fight against No Deal.
Whereas Swinson should, in theory, be indifferent between a Corbyn-led GoNU, and one led by anyone else, if it's on a temporary basis to stop No Deal. She's trying to get the latter, out of the belief that she can gain by not allowing Corbyn to be seen as PM and leading the Remain cause. Hence "playing it for tactical advantage".
There's a lot of people who should know better who seem to think Corbyn should just randomly stand aside, because it would really help them if he did. He's doing exactly what he should be doing.
So if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to some government of “unity”, where are the proposers going to find 200 defectors from the two largest parties?
A couple of dozen might be possible, but no way there’s a couple of hundred MPs who want to commit almost certain career suicide.
IMO Mike is fundamentally wrong - I live in the sort of seat where the LibDems really need Labour tactical votes and could well win. Up to recently I've known half a dozen Labour voters (two of them members) who were quietly going to do it. None of them are Corbyn fans. They are all alienated by Swinson's tactics, which seem to them to be putting party realignment (which they are at best ambiguous about) before stopping No Deal Brexit (which they are passionate about). She needs to at least seem to be open to a deal with all the Stop No Deal MPs, and when she rejects up to 200 of them out of hand, she is throwing away tactical "Bollocks to Brexit" votes in any election by the bucketload.
It's yet another game of who blinks. Things might look very different as deadline day approaches.
The other side of the coin is that - if Labour is determined to stop no deal and if they accept thee charge) as PM. The Tories supporting such an arrangement are making the biggest sacrifice, and the Tories achieved the biggest minority vote in the last GE, so some elder Tory who is leaving politics would be a reasonable choice.
As you say, it shouldn't really matter who it is. It's all very well saying the Tories are making the biggest sacrifice, but those Tory MPs and the minor parties have been loudly telling us for months that No Deal will be catastrophic and must be averted. If they really want to stop it, they can. But they are going to need the support of Labour MPs who may be more ambivalent. That's the advantage of Corbyn.
But they need to coalesce behind someone. Anyone. Sylvia Hermon?
I had Lady Sylvia Hermon added to the Betfair market for exactly this reason. Sadly no one has laid her at 1000 for me yet.
A more serious proposition is Ian Blackford.
Why? No-one likes or trusts the SNP and he’d be under enormous pressure to introduce a new independence bill as a quid pro quo.
Plenty do in Scotland, it is the cheats and liars we dislike up here, in order of hate , Tories, Lib Dems , labour.
.
Only 2 cities in Scotland voted for Indy - Glasgow and Dundee.
The two with the shortest life expectancies.
Yes the two that are miles bigger than the rest, given the shambles Westminster has handed them over the years it is no wonder. Nice that they spend all our money making sure south of England have long lives, what a union.
It was an opening gambit. If it is the only way to stop no brexit they might well reverse ferret in a few weeks.
Suicide for the LDs would have been to put Corbyn in Downing Street, however temporarily. It would have been used against the Party by the Conservatives and their media friends and the first law of politics is you don't hand your opponents a stick with which to beat you.
There will be far more LD voters and supporters happy we have rebuffed this opportunistic overture from Corbyn than those disappointed we have somehow empowered a "No Deal" Brexit (which we haven't and for which Labour deserve much more opprobrium).
Stodge has it bang on and I don't think it will impact on LAB-LD switchers. They hate the antisemitic-stained LAB leader as much as anyone. The Tories would have a field day if Swinson did anything to empower Corbyn.
Every road leading towards any sort of sensible resolution of the Brexit fiasco has been blocked by the immovable obstacle that is JEREMY CORBYN.
I rarely, if ever, agree with Marquee Mark but he is correct in one thing , Corbyn is Brexit's bessie mate.
Comments
https://twitter.com/BrexitPress/status/1161939533157601281?s=20
Site: alternatehistory.com
Discussion: Alternate history Discussion: After 1900
Entry: "Remember, Remember, The Fifth Of November: Britain 1981-1990"
Last entry: Tuesday at 7:36 pm
Hopefully that is enough detail for you to find it.
Swinson should have said , what Lucas said below.
Proves in reality Lib dems do not want to stop no deal in all circumstances.
If tons of Labs are prepared to vote LD in Con/LD contests AND tons of LDs are prepared to vote Lab in Con/Lab ones, it's going to be tough for the Great Man to win, despite being an A list celeb, and despite a ruthless campaign pushing all the national populist buttons.
But we do need both flanks. If LDs flunk it because they cannot stomach Jez then I'm afraid that's PM Johnson and Brexit under a right wing Tory government.
All six of the voters I mentioned voted LibDem in the local elections (I'm being discreet about the two members who admitted it!). None of them will now vote LibDem in this LibDem target seat, unless Swinson moderates her stance - she doesn't need to say she likes Corbyn, merely that she will do whatever turns out to be necessary to stop No Deal. I've obviously not spoken to thousands of people this week, but I really doubt if they're unusual.
Corbyn saying it has to be, err, Corbyn, and absolutely no-one else, isn't 'playing it for tactical advantage', no, of course not. Whatever could have made a brief suspicion that it might be flit across my mind?
The crawling out of the anderson shelter and wondering if it was our hourse or the neighbours house that got bombed. The learning that hearing the buzzing of a Doodlebug was OK, hearing the buzz stop was the time to hide.
In my life Memorial Day was a memorial to those who died, on all sides, and to remind us how bad war is.
My mother once took me to some old guy's house (a relative of a friend of hers) who had an old union jack flying on a tree branch. He explained to me that was the anniversary of the day he was freed from a Japanese POW camp and he did this every year.
I would not say that talking about the war in that generation was taboo, but those times were certainly not looked back on as glorious years.
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Whereas Swinson should, in theory, be indifferent between a Corbyn-led GoNU, and one led by anyone else, if it's on a temporary basis to stop No Deal. She's trying to get the latter, out of the belief that she can gain by not allowing Corbyn to be seen as PM and leading the Remain cause. Hence "playing it for tactical advantage".
There's a lot of people who should know better who seem to think Corbyn should just randomly stand aside, because it would really help them if he did. He's doing exactly what he should be doing.
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A couple of dozen might be possible, but no way there’s a couple of hundred MPs who want to commit almost certain career suicide.
I rarely, if ever, agree with Marquee Mark but he is correct in one thing , Corbyn is Brexit's bessie mate.