Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The political backcloth to current events is that the majority

1235»

Comments

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Byronic said:

    nielh said:

    Byronic said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:


    Look at JRM, he has a hedge fund that has been invested in non-sterling assets that will rise in value as sterling falls. The paradox with JRM is he is betting against Britain and has been incorporated into a cabinet run by a PM who said he wanted "those who bet against Britain to lose their shirts". After making this comment Johnson then appoints a man who bets against Britain to his cabinet FFS! Where were the opposition when this happened? Its not like nobody knows about JRM and the hedge fund.... :grey_question:

    Anybody with any semblance of a balanced portfolio will be invested in non-sterling assets along with UK exposure.

    Using this as an argument against JRM is a stretch at best but may be useful for more low information types looking to have prejudices reinforced.



    Well of course anyone who can has their assets safe, or hedgd in foreign currency. Certainly I have done so.

    Indeed, there is the risk of loss if Brexit doesn't go through...
    So what's the problem?

    People who earn in sterling and spend in sterling are fine.
    People who earn abroad are fine.
    People who have diversified are fine.
    Well, we will see how those who earn less and cannot hedge get on.

    The great irony is that Remainers are much better protected.
    Remainers tend to be better off and have done well / feel more secure with the status quo of being within the EU for the last near 50 years. It is an illusion as the EU is changing and we don't know whether ever closer union will result in stability or instability.
    Yes, hard to see any obvious Brexit benefits for the folk of the Welsh valleys or Hartlepool though. Brexit is just the new politics of envy.
    They will be able to elect and eject, democratically, those who make the laws that govern them. Remainers = affluent Tory snobs of the 19th century who resisted universal suffrage.
    This is a totally stupid comparison. It is like remainers complaining that Brexiteers are fascists. It isn't funny. It is just annoying. Please stop it.

    It clearly worked and it clearly stung because it is clearly true. Oh so many Remainers would love to restrict the franchise to those with property, education, and status = Remainers. They’ve said it time and again. It is time to take them - you - at their word.
    That's me disenfranchised on 2 out of the 3 then. You?
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    ydoethur said:


    As for decent form recent first class innings read 7, 8, 7, 60, 0, 40, 12, 30, 62, 2, 57. That's not 'decent form.' This season he averages 30 with a high score of 69.

    Like pretty much the whole Surrey side, he's had a season disrupted by injury and a loss of form. Sam Curran is batting well, though.

  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019


    Why do you think the SNP seats collapsed at the last general election?

    Because they freakishly over-performed seat-wise at the previous election.

    They still seem pretty well-placed to me. A few tight races against the Lib Dems, but some soft Tory targets to pick up too.
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684
    Byronic said:

    nielh said:

    Byronic said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:


    Look at JRM, he has a hedge fund that has been invested in non-sterling assets that will rise in value as sterling falls. The paradox with JRM is he is betting against Britain and has been incorporated into a cabinet run by a PM who said he wanted "those who bet against Britain to lose their shirts". After making this comment Johnson then appoints a man who bets against Britain to his cabinet FFS! Where were the opposition when this happened? Its not like nobody knows about JRM and the hedge fund.... :grey_question:

    Anybody with any semblance of a balanced portfolio will be invested in non-sterling assets along with UK exposure.

    Using this as an argument against JRM is a stretch at best but may be useful for more low information types looking to have prejudices reinforced.



    Well of course anyone who can has their assets safe, or hedgd in foreign currency. Certainly I have done so.

    Indeed, there is the risk of loss if Brexit doesn't go through...
    So what's the problem?

    People who earn in sterling and spend in sterling are fine.
    People who earn abroad are fine.
    People who have diversified are fine.
    Well, we will see how those who earn less and cannot hedge get on.

    The great irony is that Remainers are much better protected.
    Remainers tend to be better off and have done well / feel more secure with the status quo of being within the EU for the last near 50 years. It is an illusion as the EU is changing and we don't know whether ever closer union will result in stability or instability.
    Yes, hard to see any obvious Brexit benefits for the folk of the Welsh valleys or Hartlepool though. Brexit is just the new politics of envy.
    They will be able to elect and eject, democratically, those who make the laws that govern them. Remainers = affluent Tory snobs of the 19th century who resisted universal suffrage.
    This is a totally stupid comparison. It is like remainers complaining that Brexiteers are fascists. It isn't funny. It is just annoying. Please stop it.

    It clearly worked and it clearly stung because it is clearly true. Oh so many Remainers would love to restrict the franchise to those with property, education, and status = Remainers. They’ve said it time and again. It is time to take them - you - at their word.
    Citation needed.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Byronic said:

    nielh said:

    Byronic said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:


    Look at JRM, he has a hedge fund that has been invested in non-sterling assets that will rise in value as sterling falls. The paradox with JRM is he is betting against Britain and has been incorporated into a cabinet run by a PM who said he wanted "those who bet against Britain to lose their shirts". After making this comment Johnson then appoints a man who bets against Britain to his cabinet FFS! Where were the opposition when this happened? Its not like nobody knows about JRM and the hedge fund.... :grey_question:

    Anybody with any semblance of a balanced portfolio will be invested in non-sterling assets along with UK exposure.

    Using this as an argument against JRM is a stretch at best but may be useful for more low information types looking to have prejudices reinforced.



    Well of course anyone who can has their assets safe, or hedgd in foreign currency. Certainly I have done so.

    Indeed, there is the risk of loss if Brexit doesn't go through...
    So what's the problem?

    People who earn in sterling and spend in sterling are fine.
    People who earn abroad are fine.
    People who have diversified are fine.
    Well, we will see how those who earn less and cannot hedge get on.

    The great irony is that Remainers are much better protected.
    Remainers tend to be better off and have done well / feel more secure with the status quo of being within the EU for the last near 50 years. It is an illusion as the EU is changing and we don't know whether ever closer union will result in stability or instability.
    Yes, hard to see any obvious Brexit benefits for the folk of the Welsh valleys or Hartlepool though. Brexit is just the new politics of envy.
    They will be able to elect and eject, democratically, those who make the laws that govern them. Remainers = affluent Tory snobs of the 19th century who resisted universal suffrage.
    This is a totally stupid comparison. It is like remainers complaining that Brexiteers are fascists. It isn't funny. It is just annoying. Please stop it.

    It clearly worked and it clearly stung because it is clearly true. Oh so many Remainers would love to restrict the franchise to those with property, education, and status = Remainers. They’ve said it time and again. It is time to take them - you - at their word.
    How about the employees of the Sun, Mail, Express, Telegraph, Times, Spectator and other purveyors of professional bollocks?
  • Streeter said:

    Byronic said:

    nielh said:

    Byronic said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:


    Look at JRM, he has a hedge fund that has been invested in non-sterling assets that will rise in value as sterling falls. The paradox with JRM is he is betting against Britain and has been incorporated into a cabinet run by a PM who said he wanted "those who bet against Britain to lose their shirts". After making this comment Johnson then appoints a man who bets against Britain to his cabinet FFS! Where were the opposition when this happened? Its not like nobody knows about JRM and the hedge fund.... :grey_question:

    Anybody with any semblance of a balanced portfolio will be invested in non-sterling assets along with UK exposure.

    Using this as an argument against JRM is a stretch at best but may be useful for more low information types looking to have prejudices reinforced.



    Well of course anyone who can has their assets safe, or hedgd in foreign currency. Certainly I have done so.

    Indeed, there is the risk of loss if Brexit doesn't go through...
    So what's the problem?

    People who earn in sterling and spend in sterling are fine.
    People who earn abroad are fine.
    People who have diversified are fine.
    Well, we will see how those who earn less and cannot hedge get on.

    The great irony is that Remainers are much better protected.
    Remainers tend to be better off and have done well / feel more secure with the status quo of being within the EU for the last near 50 years. It is an illusion as the EU is changing and we don't know whether ever closer union will result in stability or instability.
    Yes, hard to see any obvious Brexit benefits for the folk of the Welsh valleys or Hartlepool though. Brexit is just the new politics of envy.
    They will be able to elect and eject, democratically, those who make the laws that govern them. Remainers = affluent Tory snobs of the 19th century who resisted universal suffrage.
    This is a totally stupid comparison. It is like remainers complaining that Brexiteers are fascists. It isn't funny. It is just annoying. Please stop it.

    It clearly worked and it clearly stung because it is clearly true. Oh so many Remainers would love to restrict the franchise to those with property, education, and status = Remainers. They’ve said it time and again. It is time to take them - you - at their word.
    Citation needed.
    Any post by Roger.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Byronic said:

    ...affluent Tory snobs...

    I'll just leave that there and say nothing, absolutely nothing. Not going to make a response. No, siree. Can't possibly think of a response, nope, nothing...

    :)

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    dixiedean said:

    Byronic said:

    nielh said:

    Byronic said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:


    Look at JRM, he has a hedge fund that has been invested in non-sterling assets that will rise in value as sterling falls. The paradox with JRM is he is betting against Britain and has been incorporated into a cabinet run by a PM who said he wanted "those who bet against Britain to lose their shirts". After making this comment Johnson then appoints a man who bets against Britain to his cabinet FFS! Where were the opposition when this happened? Its not like nobody knows about JRM and the hedge fund.... :grey_question:

    Anybody with any semblance of a



    Well of course anyone who can has their assets safe, or hedgd in foreign currency. Certainly I have done so.

    Indeed, there is the risk of loss if Brexit doesn't go through...
    So what's the problem?

    People who earn in sterling and spend in sterling are fine.
    People who earn abroad are fine.
    People who have diversified are fine.
    Well, we will see how those who earn less and cannot hedge get on.

    The great irony is that Remainers are much better protected.
    Remainers tend to be better off and have done well / feel more secure with the status quo of being within the EU for the last near 50 years. It is an illusion as the EU is changing and we don't know whether ever closer union will result in stability or instability.
    Yes, hard to see any obvious Brexit benefits for the folk of the Welsh valleys or Hartlepool though. Brexit is just the new politics of envy.
    They will be able to elect and eject, democratically, those who make the laws that govern them. Remainers = affluent Tory snobs of the 19th century who resisted universal suffrage.
    This is a totally stupid comparison. It is like remainers complaining that Brexiteers are fascists. It isn't funny. It is just annoying. Please stop it.

    It clearly worked and it clearly stung because it is clearly true. Oh so many Remainers would love to restrict the franchise to those with property, education, and status = Remainers. They’ve said it time and again. It is time to take them - you - at their word.
    How about the employees of the Sun, Mail, Express, Telegraph, Times, Spectator and other purveyors of professional bollocks?
    Or those horny handed sons of honest toil, Bozo, Jacob, Nigel, Aaron and their little imp Dominic?
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684

    Streeter said:

    Byronic said:

    nielh said:

    Byronic said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:


    Look at JRM, he has a hedge fund that has been invested in aradox with JRM is he is betting against Britain and has been incorporated into a cabinet run by a PM who said he wanted "those who bet against Britain to lose their shirts". After making this comment Johnson then appoints a man who bets against Britain to his cabinet FFS! Where were the opposition when this happened? Its not like nobody knows about JRM and the hedge fund.... :grey_question:

    Anybody with any semblance of a balanced portfolio will be invested in non-sterling assets along with UK exposure.

    Using this as an argument against JRM is a stretch at best but may be useful for more low information types looking to have prejudices reinforced.



    Well of course anyone who can has their assets safe, or hedgd in foreign currency. Certainly I have done so.

    Indeed, there is the risk of loss if Brexit doesn't go through...
    So what's the problem?

    People who earn in sterling and spend in sterling are fine.
    People who earn abroad are fine.
    People who have diversified are fine.
    Well, we will see how those who earn less and cannot hedge get on.

    The great irony is that Remainers are much better protected.
    Remainers tend to be better off and have done well / feel more secure with the status quo of being within the EU for the last near 50 years. It is an illusion as the EU is changing and we don't know whether ever closer union will result in stability or instability.
    Yes, hard to see any obvious Brexit benefits for the folk of the Welsh valleys or Hartlepool though. Brexit is just the new politics of envy.
    They will be able to elect and eject, democratically, those who make the laws that govern them. Remainers = affluent Tory snobs of the 19th century who resisted universal suffrage.
    This is a totally stupid comparison. It is like remainers complaining that Brexiteers are fascists. It isn't funny. It is just annoying. Please stop it.

    It clearly worked and it clearly stung because it is clearly true. Oh so many Remainers would love to restrict the franchise to those with property, education, and status = Remainers. They’ve said it time and again. It is time to take them - you - at their word.
    Citation needed.
    Any post by Roger.
    A lie, as per.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    In 1980 this song was about Ireland. I wonder which country it would be about today.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfMwWLnpgGw
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited August 2019
    Fintan O'Toole had an excellent point on this when reviewing Rod Liddle's latest culture-war screed on Brexit. He pointed out that, if a reader paused for a second amongst all his newly zealous invective about remainers sneering at the working-class, he would notice that Rod Liddle's last london media and publishing world smash before his embrace of Brexit was about "fat, idiotic chavs".

    A perfect, succinct metaphor for many of the comfortable london jornalists, and entire news organisations, now newly posing as tribunes of the people.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    edited August 2019
    It sticks in the craw when lifelong highly skilled construction workers like my Dad are disparaged by arsewipe City wankers as doing a job "anyone can do".
    But it really is galling when the selfsame people try to portray him, the child of a miner and a mill worker in post war Wigan, who left school at 14, as a fucking, snobbish elitist just cos he proudly and unashamedly voted, campaigned and still insists, on his 79th birthday, we should Remain.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2019
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited August 2019
    dixiedean said:

    It sticks in the craw when lifelong highly skilled construction workers like my Dad are disparaged by arsewipe City wankers as doing a job "anyone can do".
    But it really is galling when the selfsame people try to portray him, the child of a miner and a mill worker in post war Wigan, who left school at 14, as a fucking, snobbish elitist just cos he proudly and unashamedly voted, campaigned and still insists we should Remain.

    Except most 'City wankers' voted Remain (67% of finance workers in the City voted Remain, just 25% voted Leave (https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/250125/this-is-how-city-of-london-workers-voted-in) most construction workers voted Leave and Wigan voted 64% Leave and London voted 60% Remain.

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    It is a textbook slow news day with all the papers leading with different stories.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-49301360
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    It sticks in the craw when lifelong highly skilled construction workers like my Dad are disparaged by arsewipe City wankers as doing a job "anyone can do".
    But it really is galling when the selfsame people try to portray him, the child of a miner and a mill worker in post war Wigan, who left school at 14, as a fucking, snobbish elitist just cos he proudly and unashamedly voted, campaigned and still insists we should Remain.

    Except most 'City wankers' voted Remain (67% of finance workers in the City voted Remain, just 25% voted Leave (https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/250125/this-is-how-city-of-london-workers-voted-in) most construction workers voted Leave and Wigan voted 64% Leave and London voted 60% Remain.

    And what the holy fuck has that to do with it?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    dixiedean said:

    Not a good day for Prince Andrew. Dear me, can't have HM embarrassed. Shut this down and pretend it isn't happening ASAP.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/09/prince-andrew-court-documents-ghislaine-maxwell-jeffrey-epstein

    I adore sleb goss. (So kill me :) ). The best one isn't Perez Hilton or Popbitch, it's AGC Blind Items. In the Noughties it was great: who's gay, who's having an affair, who's an alcoholic or on drugs. But over the past three-four years it's gotten dark: who's a pedo, who's the wifebeater, who's the murderer, who's in the sex ring, which child star gave up acting or died young because of abuse, and so on. It's still compulsive but it's a bit chilling...

    Anyhoo, If you go thru the archives, Prince Andrew does pop up occasionally... :(

    http://www.agcwebpages.com/BLINDITEMS/MAINPAGE.html
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    TGOHF said:
    And wrong how?

    The scale of the existential threat from climate change, other environmental deterioration, WMDs and AI means that we have to transition to a very closely cooperating or unitary system of governance pretty quickly, or face a major wipe-out.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    It sticks in the craw when lifelong highly skilled construction workers like my Dad are disparaged by arsewipe City wankers as doing a job "anyone can do".
    But it really is galling when the selfsame people try to portray him, the child of a miner and a mill worker in post war Wigan, who left school at 14, as a fucking, snobbish elitist just cos he proudly and unashamedly voted, campaigned and still insists we should Remain.

    Except most 'City wankers' voted Remain (67% of finance workers in the City voted Remain, just 25% voted Leave (https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/250125/this-is-how-city-of-london-workers-voted-in) most construction workers voted Leave and Wigan voted 64% Leave and London voted 60% Remain.

    And what the holy fuck has that to do with it?
    Sorry. Bad mood. Level of debate taken down a notch. Apologies.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    It sticks in the craw when lifelong highly skilled construction workers like my Dad are disparaged by arsewipe City wankers as doing a job "anyone can do".
    But it really is galling when the selfsame people try to portray him, the child of a miner and a mill worker in post war Wigan, who left school at 14, as a fucking, snobbish elitist just cos he proudly and unashamedly voted, campaigned and still insists we should Remain.

    Except most 'City wankers' voted Remain (67% of finance workers in the City voted Remain, just 25% voted Leave (https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/250125/this-is-how-city-of-london-workers-voted-in) most construction workers voted Leave and Wigan voted 64% Leave and London voted 60% Remain.

    And what the holy fuck has that to do with it?
    Everything, because whatever anecdote you bring out about your father being a working class Remainer most Remainers are both richer and more highly educated than the average Leave voter
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    dixiedean said:

    Not a good day for Prince Andrew. Dear me, can't have HM embarrassed. Shut this down and pretend it isn't happening ASAP.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/09/prince-andrew-court-documents-ghislaine-maxwell-jeffrey-epstein

    On skim-reading that piece, it is a bit of a non-denial denial of a different allegation (and which might depend on different meanings of under-age here and in America) but if the tabloids are not running with it, there is probably not much red meat there, though of course more could emerge later.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited August 2019
    viewcode said:

    dixiedean said:

    Not a good day for Prince Andrew. Dear me, can't have HM embarrassed. Shut this down and pretend it isn't happening ASAP.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/09/prince-andrew-court-documents-ghislaine-maxwell-jeffrey-epstein

    I adore sleb goss. (So kill me :) ). The best one isn't Perez Hilton or Popbitch, it's AGC Blind Items. In the Noughties it was great: who's gay, who's having an affair, who's an alcoholic or on drugs. But over the past three-four years it's gotten dark: who's a pedo, who's the wifebeater, who's the murderer, who's in the sex ring, which child star gave up acting or died young because of abuse, and so on. It's still compulsive but it's a bit chilling...

    Anyhoo, If you go thru the archives, Prince Andrew does pop up occasionally... :(

    http://www.agcwebpages.com/BLINDITEMS/MAINPAGE.html
    As does Bill Clinton but everyone knows they both partied with Epstein and enjoyed female company when doing so, it does not imply much more than that
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    It sticks in the craw when lifelong highly skilled construction workers like my Dad are disparaged by arsewipe City wankers as doing a job "anyone can do".
    But it really is galling when the selfsame people try to portray him, the child of a miner and a mill worker in post war Wigan, who left school at 14, as a fucking, snobbish elitist just cos he proudly and unashamedly voted, campaigned and still insists we should Remain.

    Except most 'City wankers' voted Remain (67% of finance workers in the City voted Remain, just 25% voted Leave (https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/250125/this-is-how-city-of-london-workers-voted-in) most construction workers voted Leave and Wigan voted 64% Leave and London voted 60% Remain.

    And what the holy fuck has that to do with it?
    Everything, because whatever anecdote you bring out about your father being a working class Remainer most Remainers are both richer and more highly educated than the average Leave voter
    "some", "many", "most"...

    I can believe that "some" Remainers are richer and more highly educated than the average Leave voter.
    I can believe that "many" Remainers are richer and more highly educated than the average Leave voter.
    But for "..."most" Remainers are richer and more highly educated than the average Leave voter..." I'll need numbers, and your definition of "average"
  • viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    It sticks in the craw when lifelong highly skilled construction workers like my Dad are disparaged by arsewipe City wankers as doing a job "anyone can do".
    But it really is galling when the selfsame people try to portray him, the child of a miner and a mill worker in post war Wigan, who left school at 14, as a fucking, snobbish elitist just cos he proudly and unashamedly voted, campaigned and still insists we should Remain.

    Except most 'City wankers' voted Remain (67% of finance workers in the City voted Remain, just 25% voted Leave (https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/250125/this-is-how-city-of-london-workers-voted-in) most construction workers voted Leave and Wigan voted 64% Leave and London voted 60% Remain.

    And what the holy fuck has that to do with it?
    Everything, because whatever anecdote you bring out about your father being a working class Remainer most Remainers are both richer and more highly educated than the average Leave voter
    "some", "many", "most"...

    I can believe that "some" Remainers are richer and more highly educated than the average Leave voter.
    I can believe that "many" Remainers are richer and more highly educated than the average Leave voter.
    But for "..."most" Remainers are richer and more highly educated than the average Leave voter..." I'll need numbers, and your definition of "average"
    I seem to remember it was education that was most strongly correlated with the Remain/ rather than Leave vote, rather than wealth.

    Wealth has a certain correlation with education but not such a straightforward one as to say they're interchangeable.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited August 2019
    Will no-one stick up for the billionaires? The Telegraph reports the super-rich have been driven to flee this country by Brexit Jeremy Corbyn the Conservative Party.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/09/george-osbornes-toxic-tax-policies-lead-super-rich-fleeing-uk/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited August 2019
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    It sticks in the craw when lifelong highly skilled construction workers like my Dad are disparaged by arsewipe City wankers as doing a job "anyone can do".
    But it really is galling when the selfsame people try to portray him, the child of a miner and a mill worker in post war Wigan, who left school at 14, as a fucking, snobbish elitist just cos he proudly and unashamedly voted, campaigned and still insists we should Remain.

    Except most 'City wankers' voted Remain (67% of finance workers in the City voted Remain, just 25% voted Leave (https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/250125/this-is-how-city-of-london-workers-voted-in) most construction workers voted Leave and Wigan voted 64% Leave and London voted 60% Remain.

    And what the holy fuck has that to do with it?
    Everything, because whatever anecdote you bring out about your father being a working class Remainer most Remainers are both richer and more highly educated than the average Leave voter
    "some", "many", "most"...

    I can believe that "some" Remainers are richer and more highly educated than the average Leave voter.
    I can believe that "many" Remainers are richer and more highly educated than the average Leave voter.
    But for "..."most" Remainers are richer and more highly educated than the average Leave voter..." I'll need numbers, and your definition of "average"
    Not difficult, upper middle class ABs (the most educated and skilled workers) voted 59% Remain only 41% Leave and as I posted earlier finance workers in the City of London (amongst the richest in the country) voted 67% Remain and only 25% Leave.

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum
    https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/250125/this-is-how-city-of-london-workers-voted-in

    Yet the country voted 52% Leave and only 48% Remain
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    Will no-one stick up for the billionaires? The Telegraph reports the super-rich have been driven to flee this country by Brexit Jeremy Corbyn the Conservative Party.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/09/george-osbornes-toxic-tax-policies-lead-super-rich-fleeing-uk/

    There are still 78,300 here according to that report
  • Mango said:

    TGOHF said:
    And wrong how?

    The scale of the existential threat from climate change, other environmental deterioration, WMDs and AI means that we have to transition to a very closely cooperating or unitary system of governance pretty quickly, or face a major wipe-out.
    What a tyrannically oppressive and scary thought.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Mango said:

    TGOHF said:
    And wrong how?

    The scale of the existential threat from climate change, other environmental deterioration, WMDs and AI means that we have to transition to a very closely cooperating or unitary system of governance pretty quickly, or face a major wipe-out.
    I have a lot of sympathy with this. However I’m not sure how it tallies with elitist and anti-democratic institutions like the EU. If humanity is to make a step-change in how it lives, it needs the consent of the governed, and the masses. The people. The EU is designed to avoid the will of the people
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited August 2019
    Mango said:

    TGOHF said:
    And wrong how?

    The scale of the existential threat from climate change, other environmental deterioration, WMDs and AI means that we have to transition to a very closely cooperating or unitary system of governance pretty quickly, or face a major wipe-out.
    That is what the UN is for and even post Brexit we will still be in the UN and the Security Council
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019



    What a tyrannically oppressive and scary thought.

    Scary? Yes. But all the alternatives are hideously worse. And they don't go away when you ignore them.

    Tyrannical oppression I leave to right-wingers and Stalinists.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    Byronic said:


    I have a lot of sympathy with this. However I’m not sure how it tallies with elitist and anti-democratic institutions like the EU. If humanity is to make a step-change in how it lives, it needs the consent of the governed, and the masses. The people. The EU is designed to avoid the will of the people

    I think the EU is a pretty decent first step in this process. It provides a consistent institutional framework, and
    defends an international rules-based system on a cooperative and egalitarian basis. Obviously it fails on this basis too when it lets larger countries bend the rules a bit more than others, but that's politics for you. It's certainly the only defence against unfettered corporate power.

    As you say, the consent of the governed is vital. There aren't many simple solutions here.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    UK army combat units 40% below strength as recruitment plummets

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/09/uk-army-combat-units-40-below-strength-as-recruitment-plummets

    Never mind rooling the waves, Britannia would have trouble rooling Lough Neagh.

    This is just the routine tory stealth defence cut of running every unit at 5-10% below its nominal strength.

    On the positive side there is apparently enough money to send RAFAT and over 100 hangers-on on a 12 week tour of North America.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    HYUFD said:

    Not difficult, upper middle class ABs (the most educated and skilled workers) voted 59% Remain only 41% Leave and as I posted earlier finance workers in the City of London (amongst the richest in the country) voted 67% Remain and only 25% Leave.

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum
    https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/250125/this-is-how-city-of-london-workers-voted-in

    Yet the country voted 52% Leave and only 48% Remain

    No, that's not how percentages work. Let's take your figures and have a play. So:
    AB's: 59% Remain, 41% Leave and finance workers: 67% Remain, 25% Leave.

    Fair enough. entirely believable. But all this tells me me is most AB's voted Remain and most Finance workers voted Remain. That's not enough. There are three points that I need to make here[1]

    * 1) "Most AB's voted Remain" is not the same as "most Remainers were ABs".
    * 2) Similarly "Most AB's voted Remain" is not the same as "most Remainers had a higher salary than the average Leaver".
    * 3) You have to remember that 30% of A plus 20% of B plus 10% of C does not necessarily equal 60% of (A+B+C)

    The best I can get for an estimate for the size of the ABs is 22.17%[3] of the 26,993,600[2] HRPs (household reference person, ie 1 per household), which is 5,984,481 people: call it six million. So from your figures, 59% of them voted Remain - about 3.5 million - and 41% voted Leave - about 2.5 million.

    But you haven't told me anything about the other 14.9 million Leave voters (17.4 minus 2.5) nor the other 12.6 million Remain voters (16.1 minus 3.5). And until you do, you can't conclude that "most Remainers have a larger salary than the average Leave voter"

    This is why I keep insisting on absolute numbers and thresholds as well as percentages. You can't automatically get from one to the other. I'm not telling you that you're wrong - I genuinely don't know if you are. But you need more info to make that conclusion, the percentages are not enough by themselves.

    Apologies if any of my sums are wrong: it's 1:57am... :(

    [1] To make the sums easier I'm going to have to leave out the "finance" workers" number, because I don't know what the overlap is with AB's and I don't want to double-count either way.
    [2] https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/families/adhocs/005873householdsbysexofthehouseholdreferencepersonhrpuk2015
    [3] https://www.ukgeographics.co.uk/blog/s/HRP
  • leslie48leslie48 Posts: 33
    These are uplifting figs but still circa 50% think its Right or DK. You have to ask why given that the economics of the Brexit ...deteriorates just about everything that moves( i.e. measurable) be it our currency, prices, exports, investments, capital, services, funds/investment trusts/pension pots, departing companies, manufacturing, and retail and property prices and soon jobs...

    I will tell you why Brexit discourse triumphs because our opposition leaders are weak, ineffectual, lack oratory , cannot reach the Brexit Voters and say 'Holy Sh*t guys they have sold you a whopper which is going to make your country & families poorer'. The leaders of Green, Change, Lib-Dems, Plaid, SNP are individually nice people but they need to use more slogans, get in the gutter, fight hard. The Remain side are too fractured, fragmented, too cerebral, too dis-organised as the Brexit elite work together, dominate the airwaves and create the story its 'Remain Politicians Vs the People' . The Remain groups and Parties need to copy the Brexit Elite. Meanwhile experienced Labour figures need to forget Corbyn the Feeble and join with Remain groups to forge not just Westminster groups but ways to reach regional Brexit voters with slogans of truth.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not difficult, upper middle class ABs (the most educated and skilled workers) voted 59% Remain only 41% Leave and as I posted earlier finance workers in the City of London (amongst the richest in the country) voted 67% Remain and only 25% Leave.

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum
    https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/250125/this-is-how-city-of-london-workers-voted-in

    Yet the country voted 52% Leave and only 48% Remain

    No, that's not how percentages work. Let's take your figures and have a play. So:
    AB's: 59% Remain, 41% Leave and finance workers: 67% Remain, 25% Leave.

    Fair enough. entirely believable. But all this tells me me is most AB's voted Remain and most Finance workers voted Remain. That's not enough. There are three points that I need to make here[1]

    * 1) "Most AB's voted Remain" is not the same as "most Remainers were ABs".
    * 2) Similarly "Most AB's voted Remain" is not the same as "most Remainers had a higher salary than the average Leaver".
    * 3) You have to remember that 30% of A plus 20% of B plus 10% of C does not necessarily equal 60% of (A+B+C)

    The best I can get for an estimate for the size of the ABs is 22.17%[3] of the 26,993,600[2] HRPs (household reference person, ie 1 per household), which is 5,984,481 people: call it six million. So from your figures, 59% of them voted Remain - about 3.5 million - and 41% voted Leave - about 2.5 million.

    But you haven't told me anything about the other 14.9 million Leave voters (17.4 minus 2.5) nor the other 12.6 million Remain voters (16.1 minus 3.5). And until you do, you can't conclude that "most Remainers have a larger salary than the average Leave voter"

    This is why I keep insisting on absolute numbers and thresholds as well as percentages. You can't automatically get from one to the other. I'm not telling you that you're wrong - I genuinely don't know if you are. But you need more info to make that conclusion, the percentages are not enough by themselves.

    Apologies if any of my sums are wrong: it's 1:57am... :(

    [1] To make the sums easier I'm going to have to leave out the "finance" workers" number, because I don't know what the overlap is with AB's and I don't want to double-count either way.
    [2] https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/families/adhocs/005873householdsbysexofthehouseholdreferencepersonhrpuk2015
    [3] https://www.ukgeographics.co.uk/blog/s/HRP
    A noble but probably futile attempt to get him to understand, rather than just quote, statistics!

    NEW THREAD
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited August 2019
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not difficult, upper middle class ABs (the most educated and skilled workers) voted 59% Remain only 41% Leave and as I posted earlier finance workers in the City of London (amongst the richest in the country) voted 67% Remain and only 25% Leave.

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum
    https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/250125/this-is-how-city-of-london-workers-voted-in

    Yet the country voted 52% Leave and only 48% Remain

    No, that's not how percentages work. Let's take your figures and have a play. So:
    AB's: 59% Remain, 41% Leave and finance workers: 67% Remain, 25% Leave.

    Fair enough. entirely believable. But all this tells me me is most AB's voted Remain and most Finance workers voted Remain. That's not enough. There are three points that I need to make here[1]

    * 1) "Most AB's voted Remain" is not the same as "most Remainers were ABs".
    * 2) Similarly "Most AB's voted Remain" is not the same as "most Remainers had a higher salary than the average Leaver".
    * 3) You have to remember that 30% of A plus 20% of B plus 10% of C does not necessarily equal 60% of (A+B+C)

    The best I can get for an estimate for the size of the ABs is 22.17%[3] of the 26,993,600[2] HRPs (household reference person, ie 1 per household), which is 5,984,481 people: call it six million. So from your figures, 59% of them voted Remain - about 3.5 million - and 41% voted Leave - about 2.5 million.

    But you haven't told me anything about the other 14.9 million Leave voters (17.4 minus 2.5) nor the other 12.6 million Remain voters (16.1 minus 3.5). And until you do, you can't conclude that "most Remainers have a larger salary than the average Leave voter"

    This is why I keep insisting on absolute numbers and thresholds as well as percentages. You can't automatically get from one to the other. I'm not telling you that you're wrong - I genuinely don't know if you are. But you need more info to make that conclusion, the percentages are not enough by themselves.

    Apologies if any of my sums are wrong: it's 1:57am... :(

    [1] To make the sums easier I'm going to have to leave out the "finance" workers" number, because I don't know what the overlap is with AB's and I don't want to double-count either way.
    [2] https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/families/adhocs/005873householdsbysexofthehouseholdreferencepersonhrpuk2015
    [3] https://www.ukgeographics.co.uk/blog/s/HRP
    Oh for goodness sake, Leavers won C1s, C2s and DEs, Remainers won ABs and the most highly paid professions so of course they were better educated and more highly paid and it is absurd to try and continue to contest the point. Indeed 68% of graduates voted Remain but only 30% of those without qualifications

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not difficult, upper middle class ABs (the most educated and skilled workers) voted 59% Remain only 41% Leave and as I posted earlier finance workers in the City of London (amongst the richest in the country) voted 67% Remain and only 25% Leave.

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum
    https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/250125/this-is-how-city-of-london-workers-voted-in

    Yet the country voted 52% Leave and only 48% Remain

    No, that's not how percentages work. Let's take your figures and have a play. So:
    AB's: 59% Remain, 41% Leave and finance workers: 67% Remain, 25% Leave.

    Fair enough. entirely believable. But all this tells me me is most AB's voted Remain and most Finance workers voted Remain. That's not enough. There are three points that I need to make here[1]

    * 1) "Most AB's voted Remain" is not the same as "most Remainers were ABs".
    * 2) Similarly "Most AB's voted Remain" is not the same as "most Remainers had a higher salary than the average Leaver".
    * 3) You have to remember that 30% of A plus 20% of B plus 10% of C does not necessarily equal 60% of (A+B+C)

    The best I can get for an estimate for the size of the ABs is 22.17%[3] of the 26,993,600[2] HRPs (household reference person, ie 1 per household), which is 5,984,481 people: call it six million. So from your figures, 59% of them voted Remain - about 3.5 million - and 41% voted Leave - about 2.5 million.

    But you haven't told me anything about the other 14.9 million Leave voters (17.4 minus 2.5) nor the other 12.6 million Remain voters (16.1 minus 3.5). And until you do, you can't conclude that "most Remainers have a larger salary than the average Leave voter"

    This is why I keep insisting on absolute numbers and thresholds as well as percentages. You can't automatically get from one to the other. I'm not telling you that you're wrong - I genuinely don't know if you are. But you need more info to make that conclusion, the percentages are not enough by themselves.

    Apologies if any of my sums are wrong: it's 1:57am... :(

    [1] To make the sums easier I'm going to have to leave out the "finance" workers" number, because I don't know what the overlap is with AB's and I don't want to double-count either way.
    [2] https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/families/adhocs/005873householdsbysexofthehouseholdreferencepersonhrpuk2015
    [3] https://www.ukgeographics.co.uk/blog/s/HRP
    A noble but probably futile attempt to get him to understand, rather than just quote, statistics!

    NEW THREAD
    As opposed to an attempt to dismiss all statistical evidence you do not like
  • leslie48leslie48 Posts: 33

    Awb683 said:

    Brexit will be just fine.

    Can't wait!!

    Me neither! </bloc

    They said running across no mans land. As the war poet Sassoon wrote:
    THE GENERAL (April 1917)

    ‘Good-morning, good-morning!’ *the General said

    When we met him last week on our way to the line.

    Now the soldiers he smiled at are **most of ‘em dead,

    And we’re cursing his staff for incompetent swine.

    ‘He’s a cheery old card,’ grunted Harry to Jack

    As they slogged up to ***Arras with rifle and pack.

    ****But he did for them both by his plan of attack. "
This discussion has been closed.