Interesting to compare the result of the B&R by-election with the one held in 1985, on exactly the same boundaries. The Liberals / LDs got almost the same number of votes, the Tories were 2,000 higher, and Labour 12,000 lower. Labour lost 87% of their votes over that time.
Right through to 2017 they had a decent rump, the BE result looks dire for them.
It clearly refpers'.
It cion.
The only thing suicidal for Johnson would be extending again, do that and the Tories are guaranteed to fall behind the Brexit Party
Don't get me wrong. Given the position he's put himself in, it's quite possible that every option Johnson has will be suicidal.
The only suicidal action Boris could take would be to extend again and let the Brexit Party overtake the Tories as the main party of the right
So terest.
By refusing anto deliver Brexit and respect the will of the people
Your constant repetition of “will of the people” is seriously sinister
No what i
You thus wanted a war with Leavers, you have now got one
@HYUFD don't forget that you are a diehard remainer. You voted remain at the raitor.
Ugly words but them's the facts.
I voted Remain (though would have voted Leave had the Euro been a requirement of staying in) but I also respect democracy and backed the Withdrawal Agreement and now back No Deal over No Brexit or further extension.
Diehard Remainers refuse to respect democracy and opposed both the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal
Nah. You are not to be trusted because you disagree with the central premise of the Conservative party's leave strategy. You simply do. Forget the euro. You fundamentally disagree with the direction of the party you profess to support. And likewise they don't trust or want people like you.
Utter crap.
Remainers who voted for the Withdrawal Agreement are welcome, Remainers who back No Deal are welcome in the Tory Party (unlike the Brexit Party the Tories would still do a Deal with the EU without the backstop), Remainers who refused to back either are now better off in the LDs
The hours you spent on the phonebank yesterday spreading this message to the voters of B&R were invaluable. Truly.
@HYUFD don't forget that you are a diehard remainer. You voted remain at the only formal opportunity we were given. You disagree with the extreme types of Brexit as evidenced by that vote. You are not to be trusted in today's Conservative party. In fact you are what many in the Conservative party would call a traitor. Ugly words but them's the facts.
I voted Remain (though would have voted Leave had the Euro been a requirement of staying in) but I also respect democracy and backed the Withdrawal Agreement and now back No Deal over No Brexit or further extension. Diehard Remainers refuse to respect democracy and opposed both the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal
Do you respect cheating and fraud?
No I don't respect diehard Remainers cheating the Leave majority of what they voted for
Interesting to compare the result of the B&R by-election with the one held in 1985, on exactly the same boundaries. The Liberals / LDs got almost the same number of votes, the Tories were 2,000 higher, and Labour 12,000 lower. Labour lost 87% of their votes over that time.
Right through to 2017 they had a decent rump, the BE result looks dire for them.
It clearly refpers'.
It cion.
The only thing suicidal for Johnson would be extending again, do that and the Tories are guaranteed to fall behind the Brexit Party
Don't get me wrong. Given the position he's put himself in, it's quite possible that every option Johnson has will be suicidal.
The only suicidal action Boris could take would be to extend again and let the Brexit Party overtake the Tories as the main party of the right
So terest.
By refusing anto deliver Brexit and respect the will of the people
Your constant repetition of “will of the people” is seriously sinister
No what i
You thus wanted a war with Leavers, you have now got one
@HYUFD don't forget that you are a diehard remainer. You voted remain at the raitor.
Ugly words but them's the facts.
I voted Remain (thol
Nah. You are not to profess to support. And likewise they don't trust or want people like you.
Utter crap.
Remainers who voted for the Withdrawal Agreement are welcome, Remainers who back No Deal are welcome in the Tory Party (unlike the Brexit Party the Tories would still do a Deal with the EU without the backstop), Remainers who refused to back either are now better off in the LDs
Very sadly you don't get to determine who is welcome in the party. Ask your mate Penny Mordaunt. Oh wait. She said you were welcome and they binned her.
As a diehard remainer you are not welcome in today's Conservative party. Because you disagree with their policy on Brexit.
However, it is maybe a bit too pessimistic on the post-election outcome. Presuming Corbyn loses the next GE, and loses badly, then he would surely have to go. The pressure from all sides would become too great, and he is also an old man. He would simply give up?
You also ignore the possibility that all of Britain becomes Brecon. And we have a Brexit general election where the Lib Dems entirely replace Labour, who go down under 100 seats. This is far from impossible.
And in that situation it doesn't really matter who leads Labour, they are no longer the Opposition, nor the Government. They are finisahed.
Please, please, please, please, please let this happen.
The lds though they could replace labour in 2017. Better luck 2019?
Very unlikely. The Brecon & Radnor result is less impressive than the December 2016 Richmond by election - and we know how well the LibDems performed six months later.
No one was saying the LDs would replace Labour in 2017 on PB or elsewhere. In fact, some were speculating whether they’d win any seats at all.
Interesting to compare the result of the B&R by-election with the one held in 1985, on exactly the same boundaries. The Liberals / LDs got almost the same number of votes, the Tories were 2,000 higher, and Labour 12,000 lower. Labour lost 87% of their votes over that time.
Right through to 2017 they had a decent rump, the BE result looks dire for them.
It clearly refpers'.
It cion.
The only thing suicidal for Johnson would be extending again, do that and the Tories are guaranteed to fall behind the Brexit Party
Don't get me wrong. Given the position he's put himself in, it's quite possible that every option Johnson has will be suicidal.
The only suicidal action Boris could take would be to extend again and let the Brexit Party overtake the Tories as the main party of the right
So terest.
By refusing anto deliver Brexit and respect the will of the people
Your constant repetition of “will of the people” is seriously sinister
No what i
You thus wanted a war with Leavers, you have now got one
@HYUFD don't forget that you are a diehard remainer. You voted remain at the raitor.
Ugly words but them's the facts.
I voted Remain (though would have voted Leave had the Euro been a requirement of staying in) but I also respect democracy and backed the Withdrawal Agreement and now back No Deal over No Brexit or further extension.
Diehard Remainers refuse to respect democracy and opposed both the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal
Nah. You are not to be trusted because you disagree ou.
Utter crap.
Remainers who voted for the Withdrawal Agreement are welcome, Remainers who back No Deal are welcome in the Tory Party (unlike the Brexit Party the Tories would still do a Deal with the EU without the backstop), Remainers who refused to back either are now better off in the LDs
The hours you spent on the phonebank yesterday spreading this message to the voters of B&R were invaluable. Truly.
Yes, LD lead slashed from 15% 10 days ago to 4.5% last night
I didn't realise I wanted a War with Leavers. Been out most of today, so must have missed that impulse. Mindfulness meditation is not all it is cracked up to be, apparently.
HYUFD mistakenly believes that everyone who voted Leave supports Leave in any form. Deal or No Deal.
This is of course bollocks, and so undermines the rest of his 'We must No Deal' thesis.
The vast majority of Leave voters as every poll shows want Brexit with a Deal or No Deal on October 32st, diehard Remainers refuse to deliver either
You are a diehard remainer. The sooner you realise that the party you once supported no longer wants you the better.
Dominic Grieve is a diehard Remainer, Sam Gyimah is a diehard Remainer, Justine Greening is a diehard Remainer, Philip Lee is a diehard Remainer, all now belong in the LDs not the Tories.
I am not a diehard Remainer, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal and am still a Tory
See the EPL kick off live tonight on Sky and premier league next week
Where has the summer gone
Stop it. I'm trying not to think about September.
Six weeks tomorrow my wife and I sail from Southampton on a 24 day round trip cruise to Nova Scotia, New England and New York
So when everything is kicking off in the HOC we will be watching BBC World News on the ocean waves with slow internet access
You may all be pleased that I may not be able to post too frequently !!!!
Whatever you do, don't dress up as a clown!
I have been on 12 or so cruises around the World, mainly with Princess cruises and I can honestly say I have never seen any form of unacceptable behaviour. I am also familar with the Horizon Restaurants and it just seems crazy that there could be a disturbance of any kind, clowns or otherwise
See the EPL kick off live tonight on Sky and premier league next week
Where has the summer gone
Stop it. I'm trying not to think about September.
Six weeks tomorrow my wife and I sail from Southampton on a 24 day round trip cruise to Nova Scotia, New England and New York
So when everything is kicking off in the HOC we will be watching BBC World News on the ocean waves with slow internet access
You may all be pleased that I may not be able to post too frequently !!!!
I sail transatlantic in three weeks’ time, and won’t return until mid-October. Please keep everything quiet on the politics front until I return. Talk about cricket, or something.
1) what was the date of the day after 31 December 1599 in Scotland? 2) what was the date of the day after 31 December 1599 in England?
I cheated and looked it up. Quite interesting.
Indeed. That situation pertained until (I think) the eighteenth century.
Currently we use AD (or ACE if you're a souless Hellbound atheist) and the Gregorian calendar. And many people know that we used to use the Julian calendar and that there was a fuss when we swapped. But not many know that the date of the end of the year changed, and did not do so consistently.
Interesting to compare the result of the B&R by-election with the one held in 1985, on exactly the same boundaries. The Liberals / LDs got almost the same number of votes, the Tories were 2,000 higher, and Labour 12,000 lower. Labour lost 87% of their votes over that time.
Right through to 2017 they had a decent rump, the BE result looks dire for them.
'.
It certainly seems there's a greater readiness for Labour supporters to vote tactically for Lib Dem candidates these days. The Euro elections would suggest the converse is true, though Peterborough wouldn't.
If the converse were true, that would be the perfect storm for the Tories, and the No Deal route would become suicidal for Johnson - if people are still thinking in terms of an early election.
The only thing suicidal for Johnson would be extending again, do that and the Tories are guaranteed to fall behind the Brexit Party
Don't get me wrong. Given the position he's put himself in, it's quite possible that every option Johnson has will be suicidal.
The only suicidal action Boris could take would be to extend again and let the Brexit Party overtake the Tories as the main party of the right
So how does Boris get to the position where we leave on October 31st.
I note that even the Freeport announcement falls apart when it's pointed out it offers nothing we can't do today were it not for lack of previous Government disinterest.
By refusing an extension and committing to prorogue Parliament if necessary at the end of October to deliver Brexit and respect the will of the people
Your constant repetition of “will of the people” is seriously sinister
No what is 'sinister' is the contempt of diehard Remainers for democracy, refusing to back the Withdrawal Agreement and refusing to back No Deal and refusing to respect the largest vote in post war British history.
You thus wanted a war with Leavers, you have now got one
“Diehard remainers” “will of the people”. Your constant repetition of stock phrases and buzzwords without regard for context or tone is eerie. Really eerie.
HYUFD mistakenly believes that everyone who voted Leave supports Leave in any form. Deal or No Deal.
This is of course bollocks, and so undermines the rest of his 'We must No Deal' thesis.
The vast majority of Leave voters as every poll shows want Brexit with a Deal or No Deal on October 32st, diehard Remainers refuse to deliver either
You are a diehard remainer. The sooner you realise that the party you once supported no longer wants you the better.
Dominic Grieve is a diehard Remainer, Sam Gyimah is a diehard Remainer, Justine Greening is a diehard Remainer, Philip Lee is a diehard Remainer, all now belong in the LDs not the Tories.
I am not a diehard Remainer, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal and am still a Tory
No. You are not a Tory because you disagree with them on their most important policy.
HYUFD mistakenly believes that everyone who voted Leave supports Leave in any form. Deal or No Deal.
This is of course bollocks, and so undermines the rest of his 'We must No Deal' thesis.
The vast majority of Leave voters as every poll shows want Brexit with a Deal or No Deal on October 32st, diehard Remainers refuse to deliver either
You are a diehard remainer. The sooner you realise that the party you once supported no longer wants you the better.
Dominic Grieve is a diehard Remainer, Sam Gyimah is a diehard Remainer, Justine Greening is a diehard Remainer, Philip Lee is a diehard Remainer, all now belong in the LDs not the Tories.
I am not a diehard Remainer, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal and am still a Tory
Why dont you just say they want to stop brexit. Better than this 'diehard' nonsense you use
HYUFD mistakenly believes that everyone who voted Leave supports Leave in any form. Deal or No Deal.
This is of course bollocks, and so undermines the rest of his 'We must No Deal' thesis.
The vast majority of Leave voters as every poll shows want Brexit with a Deal or No Deal on October 32st, diehard Remainers refuse to deliver either
You are a diehard remainer. The sooner you realise that the party you once supported no longer wants you the better.
Dominic Grieve is a diehard Remainer, Sam Gyimah is a diehard Remainer, Justine Greening is a diehard Remainer, Philip Lee is a diehard Remainer, all now belong in the LDs not the Tories.
I am not a diehard Remainer, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal and am still a Tory
You voted Remain, HYUFD.
(No) Deal with it!
I also respect democracy, unlike diehard Remainers
Interesting to compare the result of the B&R by-election with the one held in 1985, on exactly the same boundaries. The Liberals / LDs got almost the same number of votes, the Tories were 2,000 higher, and Labour 12,000 lower. Labour lost 87% of their votes over that time.
Right through to 2017 they had a decent rump, the BE result looks dire for them.
It clearly refpers'.
It cion.
The only thing suicidal for Johnson would be extending again, do that and the Tories are guaranteed to fall behind the Brexit Party
Don't get me wrong. Given the position he's put himself in, it's quite possible that every option Johnson has will be suicidal.
The only suicidal action Boris could take would be to extend again and let the Brexit Party overtake the Tories as the main party of the right
So terest.
By refusing anto deliver Brexit and respect the will of the people
Your constant repetition of “will of the people” is seriously sinister
No what i
You thus wanted a war with Leavers, you have now got one
@HYUFD don't forget that you are a diehard remainer. You voted remain at the raitor.
Ugly words but them's the facts.
I voted Remain (thol
Nah. You are not to profess to support. And likewise they don't trust or want people like you.
Utter crap.
Remainers who voted for the Withdrawal Agreement are welcome, Remainers who back No Deal are welcome in the Tory Party (unlike the Brexit Party the Tories would still do a Deal with the EU without the backstop), Remainers who refused to back either are now better off in the LDs
Very sadly you don't get to determine who is welcome in the party. Ask your mate Penny Mordaunt. Oh wait. She said you were welcome and they binned her.
As a diehard remainer you are not welcome in today's Conservative party. Because you disagree with their policy on Brexit.
@HYUFD don't forget that you are a diehard remainer. You voted remain at the only formal opportunity we were given. You disagree with the extreme types of Brexit as evidenced by that vote. You are not to be trusted in today's Conservative party. In fact you are what many in the Conservative party would call a traitor. Ugly words but them's the facts.
I voted Remain (though would have voted Leave had the Euro been a requirement of staying in) but I also respect democracy and backed the Withdrawal Agreement and now back No Deal over No Brexit or further extension. Diehard Remainers refuse to respect democracy and opposed both the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal
Do you respect cheating and fraud?
No I don't respect diehard Remainers cheating the Leave majority of what they voted for
There was a Leave majority e years ago. There is not a No Deal majority today.
HYUFD mistakenly believes that everyone who voted Leave supports Leave in any form. Deal or No Deal.
This is of course bollocks, and so undermines the rest of his 'We must No Deal' thesis.
The vast majority of Leave voters as every poll shows want Brexit with a Deal or No Deal on October 32st, diehard Remainers refuse to deliver either
You are a diehard remainer. The sooner you realise that the party you once supported no longer wants you the better.
Dominic Grieve is a diehard Remainer, Sam Gyimah is a diehard Remainer, Justine Greening is a diehard Remainer, Philip Lee is a diehard Remainer, all now belong in the LDs not the Tories.
I am not a diehard Remainer, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal and am still a Tory
You voted Remain, HYUFD.
(No) Deal with it!
I also respect democracy, unlike diehard Remainers
You are in the wrong party. You disagree with the Conservative party Brexit policy. Go find a different party.
HYUFD mistakenly believes that everyone who voted Leave supports Leave in any form. Deal or No Deal.
This is of course bollocks, and so undermines the rest of his 'We must No Deal' thesis.
The vast majority of Leave voters as every poll shows want Brexit with a Deal or No Deal on October 32st, diehard Remainers refuse to deliver either
You are a diehard remainer. The sooner you realise that the party you once supported no longer wants you the better.
Dominic Grieve is a diehard Remainer, Sam Gyimah is a diehard Remainer, Justine Greening is a diehard Remainer, Philip Lee is a diehard Remainer, all now belong in the LDs not the Tories.
I am not a diehard Remainer, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal and am still a Tory
You voted Remain, HYUFD.
(No) Deal with it!
I also respect democracy, unlike diehard Remainers
You still voted Remain! The obvious question is "why?".
See the EPL kick off live tonight on Sky and premier league next week
Where has the summer gone
Stop it. I'm trying not to think about September.
Six weeks tomorrow my wife and I sail from Southampton on a 24 day round trip cruise to Nova Scotia, New England and New York
So when everything is kicking off in the HOC we will be watching BBC World News on the ocean waves with slow internet access
You may all be pleased that I may not be able to post too frequently !!!!
I sail transatlantic in three weeks’ time, and won’t return until mid-October. Please keep everything quiet on the politics front until I return. Talk about cricket, or something.
See the EPL kick off live tonight on Sky and premier league next week
Where has the summer gone
Stop it. I'm trying not to think about September.
Six weeks tomorrow my wife and I sail from Southampton on a 24 day round trip cruise to Nova Scotia, New England and New York
So when everything is kicking off in the HOC we will be watching BBC World News on the ocean waves with slow internet access
You may all be pleased that I may not be able to post too frequently !!!!
Hope you enjoy it. We're off to Nova Scotia for the first week of September. 70th birthday present for my m-i-l whose mother's family hailed from the Francophone town of Cheticamp on Cape Breton Island, where we'll be staying.
Feel free to DM me if you'd like some recs for Rhode Island, if you're visiting there, and NYC.
See the EPL kick off live tonight on Sky and premier league next week
Where has the summer gone
Stop it. I'm trying not to think about September.
Six weeks tomorrow my wife and I sail from Southampton on a 24 day round trip cruise to Nova Scotia, New England and New York
So when everything is kicking off in the HOC we will be watching BBC World News on the ocean waves with slow internet access
You may all be pleased that I may not be able to post too frequently !!!!
Whatever you do, don't dress up as a clown!
I have been on 12 or so cruises around the World, mainly with Princess cruises and I can honestly say I have never seen any form of unacceptable behaviour. I am also familar with the Horizon Restaurants and it just seems crazy that there could be a disturbance of any kind, clowns or otherwise
However, it is maybe a bit too pessimistic on the post-election outcome. Presuming Corbyn loses the next GE, and loses badly, then he would surely have to go. The pressure from all sides would become too great, and he is also an old man. He would simply give up?
You also ignore the possibility that all of Britain becomes Brecon. And we have a Brexit general election where the Lib Dems entirely replace Labour, who go down under 100 seats. This is far from impossible.
And in that situation it doesn't really matter who leads Labour, they are no longer the Opposition, nor the Government. They are finisahed.
Please, please, please, please, please let this happen.
The lds though they could replace labour in 2017. Better luck 2019?
Very unlikely. The Brecon & Radnor result is less impressive than the December 2016 Richmond by election - and we know how well the LibDems performed six months later.
No one was saying the LDs would replace Labour in 2017 on PB or elsewhere. In fact, some were speculating whether they’d win any seats at all.
The day after the GE was called, the Bet365 over/under market opened up the Lib Dems at around 30 seats. I think most on here saw the value at under 30, but there was a line of thought that the Lib Dems could come really strong.
I reckon it was a case of the bubble getting ahead of itself. It could see that there were issues with Corbyn regarding Brexit, but the general public hadn't got to that point by 2017. Brexit supporting Labour voters happily voted Labour and Remainers saw Labour as the best vehicle for hurting May and the Tories.
That's changed now, and Labour's difficulties on Brexit are there for all to see. But how would things play out in a GE? That's the big question.If the Brexit Party vote collapses in the way the Ukip vote did in 2017, how do voters react? In many seats remainers are going to have to vote Labour again to stop the Tories. Will they do it?
HYUFD mistakenly believes that everyone who voted Leave supports Leave in any form. Deal or No Deal.
This is of course bollocks, and so undermines the rest of his 'We must No Deal' thesis.
The vast majority of Leave voters as every poll shows want Brexit with a Deal or No Deal on October 32st, diehard Remainers refuse to deliver either
You are a diehard remainer. The sooner you realise that the party you once supported no longer wants you the better.
Dominic Grieve is a diehard Remainer, Sam Gyimah is a diehard Remainer, Justine Greening is a diehard Remainer, Philip Lee is a diehard Remainer, all now belong in the LDs not the Tories.
I am not a diehard Remainer, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal and am still a Tory
You voted Remain, HYUFD.
(No) Deal with it!
I also respect democracy, unlike diehard Remainers
Well let's have a referendum on No Deal and accept the democratic result.
Interesting to compare the result of the B&R by-election with the one held in 1985, on exactly the same boundaries. The Liberals / LDs got almost the same number of votes, the Tories were 2,000 higher, and Labour 12,000 lower. Labour lost 87% of their votes over that time.
Right through to 2017 they had a decent rump, the BE result looks dire for them.
It clearly reflects the change in the electoral dynamics of the seat in that the LibDems - having held the seat for 25 of the last 34 years - are now perceived as the obvious non-Tory alternative. That was not clear at the time of the 1985 by election result , but over the following decade it became apparent that not voting LibDem risked handing the seat back to the Tories - as happened in 1992. In 2015 many ceased to care because of the LibDem image of having been the 'Tories' Little Helpers'.
.
The only thing suicidal for Johnson would be extending again, do that and the Tories are guaranteed to fall behind the Brexit Party
Don't get me wrong. Given the position he's put himself in, it's quite possible that every option Johnson has will be suicidal.
The only suicidal action Boris could take would be to extend again and let the Brexit Party overtake the Tories as the main party of the right
So how does Boris get to the position where we leave on October 31st.
I note that even the Freeport announcement falls apart when it's pointed out it offers nothing we can't do today were it not for lack of previous Government disinterest.
By refusing an extension and committing to prorogue Parliament if necessary at the end of October to deliver Brexit and respect the will of the people
Who gets to decide the will of the people? If its you and a bunch of your Eton/Oxbridge elite mates that truly is a fascist use of the phrase.
If it is opinion polling, the will of the people is remain ahead of leave, so lets remain.
If it is elections, the only mandate for no deal is the 1.8% who voted UKIP at the last general election. 98.2% voted for at least a deal, so lets leave with a deal.
There is no mandate or majority for no deal which is why you are flirting with a coup to deliver it and starting to use fascist language.
Interesting to compare the result of the B&R by-election with the one held in 1985, on exactly the same boundaries. The Liberals / LDs got almost the same number of votes, the Tories were 2,000 higher, and Labour 12,000 lower. Labour lost 87% of their votes over that time.
Right through to 2017 they had a decent rump, the BE result looks dire for them.
It clearly refpers'.
It cion.
The only thing suicidal for Johnson would be extending again, do that and the Tories are guaranteed to fall behind the Brexit Party
Don't get me wrong. Given the position he's put himself in, it's quite possible that every option Johnson has will be suicidal.
The only suicidal action Boris could take would be to extend again and let the Brexit Party overtake the Tories as the main party of the right
So terest.
By refusing anto deliver Brexit and respect the will of the people
Your constant repetition of “will of the people” is seriously sinister
No what i
You thus wanted a war with Leavers, you have now got one
@HYUFD don't forget that you are a diehard remainer. You voted remain at the raitor.
Ugly words but them's the facts.
I voted Remain (thol
Nah. You are not to profess to support. And likewise they don't trust or want people like you.
Utters
Very .
Half the Cabinet even under Boris voted Remain, they just like me respect democracy and delivering Brexit Deal or No Deal on October 31st
But you disagree with their policy therefore as an honourable person you should resign from the party. You surely cannot live with yourself given that their policy is one you disagree with. As evidenced by your remain vote.
Surely you won't be so duplicitous and pathetic as to remain in a party whose policy you disagree with.
Others yes but not you, @HYUFD. Because you are a diehard remainer.
See the EPL kick off live tonight on Sky and premier league next week
Where has the summer gone
Stop it. I'm trying not to think about September.
Six weeks tomorrow my wife and I sail from Southampton on a 24 day round trip cruise to Nova Scotia, New England and New York
So when everything is kicking off in the HOC we will be watching BBC World News on the ocean waves with slow internet access
You may all be pleased that I may not be able to post too frequently !!!!
Whatever you do, don't dress up as a clown!
I have been on 12 or so cruises around the World, mainly with Princess cruises and I can honestly say I have never seen any form of unacceptable behaviour. I am also familar with the Horizon Restaurants and it just seems crazy that there could be a disturbance of any kind, clowns or otherwise
I saw a Princess cruise ship from where we were staying on the Isle of Skye last month.
HYUFD mistakenly believes that everyone who voted Leave supports Leave in any form. Deal or No Deal.
This is of course bollocks, and so undermines the rest of his 'We must No Deal' thesis.
The vast majority of Leave voters as every poll shows want Brexit with a Deal or No Deal on October 32st, diehard Remainers refuse to deliver either
You are a diehard remainer. The sooner you realise that the party you once supported no longer wants you the better.
Dominic Grieve is a diehard Remainer, Sam Gyimah is a diehard Remainer, Justine Greening is a diehard Remainer, Philip Lee is a diehard Remainer, all now belong in the LDs not the Tories.
I am not a diehard Remainer, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal and am still a Tory
You voted Remain, HYUFD.
(No) Deal with it!
I also respect democracy, unlike diehard Remainers
You still voted Remain! The obvious question is "why?".
Because the then leader of the Tory Party told him too. The next told him to support the WDA, and he did. The new one wants No Deal. Guess what? If they told him to paint his bottom blue and invade Liechtenstein, he'd be strapping on a parachute and sitting in a can of dulux somewhere over Vaduz before the day was out.
Right through to 2017 they had a decent rump, the BE result looks dire for them.
'.
It certainly seems there's a greater readiness for Labour supporters to vote tactically for Lib Dem candidates these days. The Euro elections would suggest the converse is true, though Peterborough wouldn't.
If the converse were true, that would be the perfect storm for the Tories, and the No Deal route would become suicidal for Johnson - if people are still thinking in terms of an early election.
The only thing suicidal for Johnson would be extending again, do that and the Tories are guaranteed to fall behind the Brexit Party
Don't get me wrong. Given the position he's put himself in, it's quite possible that every option Johnson has will be suicidal.
The only suicidal action Boris could take would be to extend again and let the Brexit Party overtake the Tories as the main party of the right
So how does Boris get to the position where we leave on October 31st.
I note that even the Freeport announcement falls apart when it's pointed out it offers nothing we can't do today were it not for lack of previous Government disinterest.
By refusing an extension and committing to prorogue Parliament if necessary at the end of October to deliver Brexit and respect the will of the people
Your constant repetition of “will of the people” is seriously sinister
No what is 'sinister' is the contempt of diehard Remainers for democracy, refusing to back the Withdrawal Agreement and refusing to back No Deal and refusing to respect the largest vote in post war British history.
You thus wanted a war with Leavers, you have now got one
“Diehard remainers” “will of the people”. Your constant repetition of stock phrases and buzzwords without regard for context or tone is eerie. Really eerie.
"Now I have a Withdrawal Agreement! Ho ho ho!"
"After all this you're just a common Remainer" "I am an exceptional Remainer, Mrs McClain, and as I'm about to upgrade to Diehard Remainer, you should be more polite"
HYUFD mistakenly believes that everyone who voted Leave supports Leave in any form. Deal or No Deal.
This is of course bollocks, and so undermines the rest of his 'We must No Deal' thesis.
The vast majority of Leave voters as every poll shows want Brexit with a Deal or No Deal on October 32st, diehard Remainers refuse to deliver either
You are a diehard remainer. The sooner you realise that the party you once supported no longer wants you the better.
Dominic Grieve is a diehard Remainer, Sam Gyimah is a diehard Remainer, Justine Greening is a diehard Remainer, Philip Lee is a diehard Remainer, all now belong in the LDs not the Tories.
I am not a diehard Remainer, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal and am still a Tory
You voted Remain, HYUFD.
(No) Deal with it!
I also respect democracy, unlike diehard Remainers
You still voted Remain! The obvious question is "why?".
Because the then leader of the Tory Party told him too. The next told him to support the WDA, and he did. The new one wants No Deal. Guess what? If they told him to paint his bottom blue and invade Liechtenstein, he'd be strapping on a parachute and sitting in a can of dulux somewhere over Vaduz before the day was out.
No! @HYUFD is a man of honour. He voted remain because he thought, he genuinely thought that remaining in the EU was best for the UK.
@HYUFD is not the kind of guy to change his mind about something so important. He is a man of honour. He will resign from the Conservative party shortly I am sure
See the EPL kick off live tonight on Sky and premier league next week
Where has the summer gone
Stop it. I'm trying not to think about September.
Six weeks tomorrow my wife and I sail from Southampton on a 24 day round trip cruise to Nova Scotia, New England and New York
So when everything is kicking off in the HOC we will be watching BBC World News on the ocean waves with slow internet access
You may all be pleased that I may not be able to post too frequently !!!!
Whatever you do, don't dress up as a clown!
I have been on 12 or so cruises around the World, mainly with Princess cruises and I can honestly say I have never seen any form of unacceptable behaviour. I am also familar with the Horizon Restaurants and it just seems crazy that there could be a disturbance of any kind, clowns or otherwise
I saw a Princess cruise ship from where we were staying on the Isle of Skye last month.
Methinks you covered the West Highland and Kyle lines on that trip.
See the EPL kick off live tonight on Sky and premier league next week
Where has the summer gone
Stop it. I'm trying not to think about September.
Six weeks tomorrow my wife and I sail from Southampton on a 24 day round trip cruise to Nova Scotia, New England and New York
So when everything is kicking off in the HOC we will be watching BBC World News on the ocean waves with slow internet access
You may all be pleased that I may not be able to post too frequently !!!!
Hope you enjoy it. We're off to Nova Scotia for the first week of September. 70th birthday present for my m-i-l whose mother's family hailed from the Francophone town of Cheticamp on Cape Breton Island, where we'll be staying.
Feel free to DM me if you'd like some recs for Rhode Island, if you're visiting there, and NYC.
Thank you.
It is a pre 80th birthday present for my dear wife and Nova Scotia is of great interest to her as several of her forebears emigrated from the North of Scotland there
We have a busy excursion itinerary including the two day stop in NY.
We have visited NY before but it has been a shared dream of ours to sail into NY as per the transatlantic liners of the 50's which we remember so well
However, it is maybe a bit too pessimistic on the post-election outcome. Presuming Corbyn loses the next GE, and loses badly, then he would surely have to go. The pressure from all sides would become too great, and he is also an old man. He would simply give up?
You also ignore the possibility that all of Britain becomes Brecon. And we have a Brexit general election where the Lib Dems entirely replace Labour, who go down under 100 seats. This is far from impossible.
And in that situation it doesn't really matter who leads Labour, they are no longer the Opposition, nor the Government. They are finisahed.
Please, please, please, please, please let this happen.
The lds though they could replace labour in 2017. Better luck 2019?
Very unlikely. The Brecon & Radnor result is less impressive than the December 2016 Richmond by election - and we know how well the LibDems performed six months later.
No one was saying the LDs would replace Labour in 2017 on PB or elsewhere. In fact, some were speculating whether they’d win any seats at all.
Not true - as another contributor has confirmed. It was also the case that much later in the campaign ,when LibDem poll ratings remained in single figures , there was speculation as to how few seats they would end up with. They exceeded those low expectations - but also fell very well short of what some were suggesting in late April.
See the EPL kick off live tonight on Sky and premier league next week
Where has the summer gone
Stop it. I'm trying not to think about September.
Six weeks tomorrow my wife and I sail from Southampton on a 24 day round trip cruise to Nova Scotia, New England and New York
So when everything is kicking off in the HOC we will be watching BBC World News on the ocean waves with slow internet access
You may all be pleased that I may not be able to post too frequently !!!!
Whatever you do, don't dress up as a clown!
I have been on 12 or so cruises around the World, mainly with Princess cruises and I can honestly say I have never seen any form of unacceptable behaviour. I am also familar with the Horizon Restaurants and it just seems crazy that there could be a disturbance of any kind, clowns or otherwise
I saw a Princess cruise ship from where we were staying on the Isle of Skye last month.
Yes - one of them has been cruising round the British Isles
If Corbyn does lead Labour at the next general election and loses and either stays Labour leader or is replaced by a Corbynista like Pidcock, Long-Bailey or McDonnell then there must be a strong possibility that the LDs will replace Labour as the main party of the centre left by the general election after next.
The European Parliament elections fired a warning shot across Labour's bows when the LDs beat Labour, the Tories listened to their warning shot when the Brexit Party beat them by picking Boris to replace May, if Labour continue to stick their fingers in their ears and stick with Corbynism they will continue to see swings against them as they did in Brecon last night
Here's an experience I am sure many of us have had. You join a project half way through. It looks fairly straight forward and it is clear enough what needs to be done. But the people on the project have become obsessed by some issue that while not totally unimportant clearly isn't the major thing that needs to be sorted out. Without knowing the background you are mystified by why it dominates discussion. But nothing you can say will shift the entrenched views of the team members who have been working on it.
That's how the Tory Party looks from the outside.
What the hell is so important about the 30th of October? And by Jove's gardener, what on earth makes you think Johnson is the answer?
Comres today, if Boris delivers Brexit with No Deal the Tories have a 7% lead over Labour, if Boris extends again beyond October 31st the Tories collapse to 3rd behind the Brexit Party and Labour.
An interesting set of scenarios/polls but what people think this side of those things happening is not necessarily the same thing as what people will end up thinking the other side of some of those things happening. A sort of Heisenberg uncertainty principle of polling.
If Corbyn does lead Labour at the next general election and loses and either stays Labour leader or is replaced by a Corbynista like Pidcock, Long-Bailey or McDonnell then there must be a strong possibility that the LDs will replace Labour as the main party of the centre left by the general election after next.
The European Parliament elections fired a warning shot across Labour's bows when the LDs beat Labour, the Tories listened to their warning shot when the Brexit Party beat them by picking Boris to replace May, if Labour continue to stick their fingers in their ears and stick with Corbynism they will continue to see swings against them as they did in Brecon last night
Here's an experience I am sure many of us have had. You join a project half way through. It looks fairly straight forward and it is clear enough what needs to be done. But the people on the project have become obsessed by some issue that while not totally unimportant clearly isn't the major thing that needs to be sorted out. Without knowing the background you are mystified by why it dominates discussion. But nothing you can say will shift the entrenched views of the team members who have been working on it.
That's how the Tory Party looks from the outside.
What the hell is so important about the 30th of October? And by Jove's gardener, what on earth makes you think Johnson is the answer?
Comres today, if Boris delivers Brexit with No Deal the Tories have a 7% lead over Labour, if Boris extends again beyond October 31st the Tories collapse to 3rd behind the Brexit Party and Labour.
An interesting set of scenarios/polls but what people think this side of those things happen is not necessarily the same thing as what people will end up thinking the other side of some of those things happening. A sort of Heisenberg uncertainty principle of polling.
Just as important would be why, and peoples perception of why they happened.
If Corbyn does lead Labour at the next general election and loses and either stays Labour leader or is replaced by a Corbynista like Pidcock, Long-Bailey or McDonnell then there must be a strong possibility that the LDs will replace Labour as the main party of the centre left by the general election after next.
The European Parliament elections fired a warning shot across Labour's bows when the LDs beat Labour, the Tories listened to their warning shot when the Brexit Party beat them by picking Boris to replace May, if Labour continue to stick their fingers in their ears and stick with Corbynism they will continue to see swings against them as they did in Brecon last night
Here's an experience I am sure many of us have had. You join a project half way through. It looks fairly straight forward and it is clear enough what needs to be done. But the people on the project have become obsessed by some issue that while not totally unimportant clearly isn't the major thing that needs to be sorted out. Without knowing the background you are mystified by why it dominates discussion. But nothing you can say will shift the entrenched views of the team members who have been working on it.
That's how the Tory Party looks from the outside.
What the hell is so important about the 30th of October? And by Jove's gardener, what on earth makes you think Johnson is the answer?
Comres today, if Boris delivers Brexit with No Deal the Tories have a 7% lead over Labour, if Boris extends again beyond October 31st the Tories collapse to 3rd behind the Brexit Party and Labour.
An interesting set of scenarios/polls but what people think this side of those things happening is not necessarily the same thing as what people will end up thinking the other side of some of those things happening. A sort of Heisenberg uncertainty principle of polling.
Reminds me of the Victoria Wood sketch about a market researcher asking someone whether in the event of a nuclear holocaust they would be likely to buy more or less Hellmann's mayonnaise.
HYUFD mistakenly believes that everyone who voted Leave supports Leave in any form. Deal or No Deal.
This is of course bollocks, and so undermines the rest of his 'We must No Deal' thesis.
The vast majority of Leave voters as every poll shows want Brexit with a Deal or No Deal on October 32st, diehard Remainers refuse to deliver either
You are a diehard remainer. The sooner you realise that the party you once supported no longer wants you the better.
Dominic Grieve is a diehard Remainer, Sam Gyimah is a diehard Remainer, Justine Greening is a diehard Remainer, Philip Lee is a diehard Remainer, all now belong in the LDs not the Tories.
I am not a diehard Remainer, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal and am still a Tory
You voted Remain, HYUFD.
(No) Deal with it!
I also respect democracy, unlike diehard Remainers
You still voted Remain! The obvious question is "why?".
Because the then leader of the Tory Party told him too. The next told him to support the WDA, and he did. The new one wants No Deal. Guess what? If they told him to paint his bottom blue and invade Liechtenstein, he'd be strapping on a parachute and sitting in a can of dulux somewhere over Vaduz before the day was out.
See the EPL kick off live tonight on Sky and premier league next week
Where has the summer gone
Stop it. I'm trying not to think about September.
Six weeks tomorrow my wife and I sail from Southampton on a 24 day round trip cruise to Nova Scotia, New England and New York
So when everything is kicking off in the HOC we will be watching BBC World News on the ocean waves with slow internet access
You may all be pleased that I may not be able to post too frequently !!!!
Whatever you do, don't dress up as a clown!
I have been on 12 or so cruises around the World, mainly with Princess cruises and I can honestly say I have never seen any form of unacceptable behaviour. I am also familar with the Horizon Restaurants and it just seems crazy that there could be a disturbance of any kind, clowns or otherwise
I saw a Princess cruise ship from where we were staying on the Isle of Skye last month.
Yes - one of them has been cruising round the British Isles
See the EPL kick off live tonight on Sky and premier league next week
Where has the summer gone
Stop it. I'm trying not to think about September.
Six weeks tomorrow my wife and I sail from Southampton on a 24 day round trip cruise to Nova Scotia, New England and New York
So when everything is kicking off in the HOC we will be watching BBC World News on the ocean waves with slow internet access
You may all be pleased that I may not be able to post too frequently !!!!
Whatever you do, don't dress up as a clown!
I have been on 12 or so cruises around the World, mainly with Princess cruises and I can honestly say I have never seen any form of unacceptable behaviour. I am also familar with the Horizon Restaurants and it just seems crazy that there could be a disturbance of any kind, clowns or otherwise
I saw a Princess cruise ship from where we were staying on the Isle of Skye last month.
Methinks you covered the West Highland and Kyle lines on that trip.
Did you get the kettle to Mallaig?
No, unfortunately it was with some family members! We flew(!) from London to Inverness, then hired a car from there to Skye. On the way, I did see and cross the Kyle Line a number of times!
See the EPL kick off live tonight on Sky and premier league next week
Where has the summer gone
Stop it. I'm trying not to think about September.
Six weeks tomorrow my wife and I sail from Southampton on a 24 day round trip cruise to Nova Scotia, New England and New York
So when everything is kicking off in the HOC we will be watching BBC World News on the ocean waves with slow internet access
You may all be pleased that I may not be able to post too frequently !!!!
Whatever you do, don't dress up as a clown!
I have been on 12 or so cruises around the World, mainly with Princess cruises and I can honestly say I have never seen any form of unacceptable behaviour. I am also familar with the Horizon Restaurants and it just seems crazy that there could be a disturbance of any kind, clowns or otherwise
I saw a Princess cruise ship from where we were staying on the Isle of Skye last month.
Methinks you covered the West Highland and Kyle lines on that trip.
Did you get the kettle to Mallaig?
No, unfortunately it was with some family members! We flew(!) from London to Inverness, then hired a car from there to Skye. On the way, I did see and cross the Kyle Line a number of times!
Right through to 2017 they had a decent rump, the BE result looks dire for them.
'.
It certainly seems there's a greater readiness for Labour supporters to vote tactically for Lib Dem candidates these days. The Euro elections would suggest the converse is true, though Peterborough wouldn't.
If the converse were true, that would be the perfect storm for the Tories, and the No Deal route would become suicidal for Johnson - if people are still thinking in terms of an early election.
The only thing suicidal for Johnson would be extending again, do that and the Tories are guaranteed to fall behind the Brexit Party
Don't get me wrong. Given the position he's put himself in, it's quite possible that every option Johnson has will be suicidal.
The only suicidal action Boris could take would be to extend again and let the Brexit Party overtake the Tories as the main party of the right
So how does Boris get to the position where we leave on October 31st.
I note that even the Freeport announcement falls apart when it's pointed out it offers nothing we can't do today were it not for lack of previous Government disinterest.
By refusing an extension and committing to prorogue Parliament if necessary at the end of October to deliver Brexit and respect the will of the people
Your constant repetition of “will of the people” is seriously sinister
No what is 'sinister' is the contempt of diehard Remainers for democracy, refusing to back the Withdrawal Agreement and refusing to back No Deal and refusing to respect the largest vote in post war British history.
You thus wanted a war with Leavers, you have now got one
“Diehard remainers” “will of the people”. Your constant repetition of stock phrases and buzzwords without regard for context or tone is eerie. Really eerie.
"Now I have a Withdrawal Agreement! Ho ho ho!"
"After all this you're just a common Remainer" "I am an exceptional Remainer, Mrs McClain, and as I'm about to upgrade to Diehard Remainer, you should be more polite"
"Hey babe, I negotiate billion dollar Brexit deals for breakfast. I think I can handle this Eurotrash!"
If Corbyn does lead Labour at the next general election and loses and either stays Labour leader or is replaced by a Corbynista like Pidcock, Long-Bailey or McDonnell then there must be a strong possibility that the LDs will replace Labour as the main party of the centre left by the general election after next.
The European Parliament elections fired a warning shot across Labour's bows when the LDs beat Labour, the Tories listened to their warning shot when the Brexit Party beat them by picking Boris to replace May, if Labour continue to stick their fingers in their ears and stick with Corbynism they will continue to see swings against them as they did in Brecon last night
Here's an experience I am sure many of us have had. You join a project half way through. It looks fairly straight forward and it is clear enough what needs to be done. But the people on the project have become obsessed by some issue that while not totally unimportant clearly isn't the major thing that needs to be sorted out. Without knowing the background you are mystified by why it dominates discussion. But nothing you can say will shift the entrenched views of the team members who have been working on it.
That's how the Tory Party looks from the outside.
What the hell is so important about the 30th of October? And by Jove's gardener, what on earth makes you think Johnson is the answer?
Comres today, if Boris delivers Brexit with No Deal the Tories have a 7% lead over Labour, if Boris extends again beyond October 31st the Tories collapse to 3rd behind the Brexit Party and Labour.
An interesting set of scenarios/polls but what people think this side of those things happening is not necessarily the same thing as what people will end up thinking the other side of some of those things happening. A sort of Heisenberg uncertainty principle of polling.
I suspect people think the results of No Deal will be completely harmless for them, their friends and family. If that’s not the case (and I suspect it won’t be ) the result of any election after No Deal will be very different from that poll
HYUFD mistakenly believes that everyone who voted Leave supports Leave in any form. Deal or No Deal.
This is of course bollocks, and so undermines the rest of his 'We must No Deal' thesis.
The vast majority of Leave voters as every poll shows want Brexit with a Deal or No Deal on October 32st, diehard Remainers refuse to deliver either
You are a diehard remainer. The sooner you realise that the party you once supported no longer wants you the better.
Dominic Grieve is a diehard Remainer, Sam Gyimah is a diehard Remainer, Justine Greening is a diehard Remainer, Philip Lee is a diehard Remainer, all now belong in the LDs not the Tories.
I am not a diehard Remainer, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal and am still a Tory
You voted Remain, HYUFD.
(No) Deal with it!
I also respect democracy, unlike diehard Remainers
You still voted Remain! The obvious question is "why?".
Because the then leader of the Tory Party told him too. The next told him to support the WDA, and he did. The new one wants No Deal. Guess what? If they told him to paint his bottom blue and invade Liechtenstein, he'd be strapping on a parachute and sitting in a can of dulux somewhere over Vaduz before the day was out.
As I said I would have voted Leave if the Euro had been a requirement but I also respect democracy, we had a referendum and Leave won. Brexit thus must be delivered.
Otherwise why have democracy at all? If Corbyn wins the next general election do you expect the Tories to be demanding another general election the following day and trying to prevent him forming a government? No, they would oppose him but respect the will of the people and try and beat him at the next general election.
If diehard Remainers want to Remain they can campaign to rejoin the EU after we have left it and respected the result of the first vote
Interesting to compare the result of the B&R by-election with the one held in 1985, on exactly the same boundaries. The Liberals / LDs got almost the same number of votes, the Tories were 2,000 higher, and Labour 12,000 lower. Labour lost 87% of their votes over that time.
Right through to 2017 they had a decent rump, the BE result looks dire for them.
It clearly reflects the change in the electoral dynamics of the seat in that the LibDems - having held the seat for 25 of the last 34 years - are now perceived as the obvious non-Tory alternative. That was not clear at the time of the 1985 by election result , but over the following decade it became apparent that not voting LibDem risked handing the seat back to the Tories - as happened in 1992. In 2015 many ceased to care because of the LibDem image of having been the 'Tories' Little Helpers'.
.
The only thing suicidal for Johnson would be extending again, do that and the Tories are guaranteed to fall behind the Brexit Party
Don't get me wrong. Given the position he's put himself in, it's quite possible that every option Johnson has will be suicidal.
The only suicidal action Boris could take would be to extend again and let the Brexit Party overtake the Tories as the main party of the right
So how does Boris get to the position where we leave on October 31st.
I note that even the Freeport announcement falls apart when it's pointed out it offers nothing we can't do today were it not for lack of previous Government disinterest.
By refusing an extension and committing to prorogue Parliament if necessary at the end of October to deliver Brexit and respect the will of the people
Who gets to decide the will of the people? If its you and a bunch of your Eton/Oxbridge elite mates that truly is a fascist use of the phrase.
If it is opinion polling, the will of the people is remain ahead of leave, so lets remain.
If it is elections, the only mandate for no deal is the 1.8% who voted UKIP at the last general election. 98.2% voted for at least a deal, so lets leave with a deal.
There is no mandate or majority for no deal which is why you are flirting with a coup to deliver it and starting to use fascist language.
HYUFD mistakenly believes that everyone who voted Leave supports Leave in any form. Deal or No Deal.
This is of course bollocks, and so undermines the rest of his 'We must No Deal' thesis.
The vast majority of Leave voters as every poll shows want Brexit with a Deal or No Deal on October 32st, diehard Remainers refuse to deliver either
You are a diehard remainer. The sooner you realise that the party you once supported no longer wants you the better.
Dominic Grieve is a diehard Remainer, Sam Gyimah is a diehard Remainer, Justine Greening is a diehard Remainer, Philip Lee is a diehard Remainer, all now belong in the LDs not the Tories.
I am not a diehard Remainer, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal and am still a Tory
You voted Remain, HYUFD.
(No) Deal with it!
I also respect democracy, unlike diehard Remainers
You still voted Remain! The obvious question is "why?".
Because the then leader of the Tory Party told him too. The next told him to support the WDA, and he did. The new one wants No Deal. Guess what? If they told him to paint his bottom blue and invade Liechtenstein, he'd be strapping on a parachute and sitting in a can of dulux somewhere over Vaduz before the day was out.
As I said I would have voted Leave if the Euro had been a requirement but I also respect democracy, we had a referendum and Leave won. Brexit thus must be delivered.
Otherwise why have democracy at all? If Corbyn wins the next general election do you expect the Tories to be demanding another general election the following day and trying to prevent him forming a government? No, they would oppose him but respect the will of the people and try and beat him at the next general election.
If diehard Remainers want to Remain they can campaign to rejoin the EU after we have left it and respected the result of the first vote
You conceded the other day that if a pro 2nd referendum party, campaigned and one a GE on that platform, conducted said referendum, and the vote was remain, then that would be a democratic outcome.
Also a second referendum: no deal Brexit versus remain would not be ignoring the result of the first referendum because it would be asking a different thing!
Forget @HYUFD It's the Lexit/Non Tory voters I can't figure out. What the hell did they think they were voting for* ?! *I know Rochdale_Pioneers has repented so I'm leaving him out of this, but @SandyRentool for instance ?
@HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.
I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.
I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
So why do you back No Deal?
I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
But why?
As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.
Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
HYUFD mistakenly believes that everyone who voted Leave supports Leave in any form. Deal or No Deal.
This is of course bollocks, and so undermines the rest of his 'We must No Deal' thesis.
The vast majority of Leave voters as every poll shows want Brexit with a Deal or No Deal on October 32st, diehard Remainers refuse to deliver either
You are a diehard remainer. The sooner you realise that the party you once supported no longer wants you the better.
Dominic Grieve is a diehard Remainer, Sam Gyimah is a diehard Remainer, Justine Greening is a diehard Remainer, Philip Lee is a diehard Remainer, all now belong in the LDs not the Tories.
I am not a diehard Remainer, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal and am still a Tory
You voted Remain, HYUFD.
(No) Deal with it!
I also respect democracy, unlike diehard Remainers
You still voted Remain! The obvious question is "why?".
Because the then leader of the Tory Party told him too. The next told him to support the WDA, and he did. The new one wants No Deal. Guess what? If they told him to paint his bottom blue and invade Liechtenstein, he'd be strapping on a parachute and sitting in a can of dulux somewhere over Vaduz before the day was out.
As I said I would have voted Leave if the Euro had been a requirement but I also respect democracy, we had a referendum and Leave won. Brexit thus must be delivered.
Otherwise why have democracy at all? If Corbyn wins the next general election do you expect the Tories to be demanding another general election the following day and trying to prevent him forming a government? No, they would oppose him but respect the will of the people and try and beat him at the next general election.
If diehard Remainers want to Remain they can campaign to rejoin the EU after we have left it and respected the result of the first vote
You conceded the other day that if a pro 2nd referendum party, campaigned and one a GE on that platform, conducted said referendum, and the vote was remain, then that would be a democratic outcome.
Also a second referendum: no deal Brexit versus remain would not be ignoring the result of the first referendum because it would be asking a different thing!
If after we left the EU a party won a majority on a platform to have a referendum to rejoin the EU and rejoin won then fine but we must have respected the result of the first referendum first
Hypothetical question for HYUFD - do you believe that No deal Brexit will be severely harmful to the economy and the livelihoods of millions of the country’s citizens. If you did would it inform your view of whether we should follow through “because we voted for Brexit”? How harmful would the outcome have to be for you to change your mind?
@HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.
I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.
I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
So why do you back No Deal?
I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
But why?
As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.
Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
Advisory referendum, no legal obligation to fulfill it it especially when it is a stupid decision.
@HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.
I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.
I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
So why do you back No Deal?
I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
But why?
As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.
Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
Advisory referendum, no legal obligation to fulfill it it especially when it is a stupid decision.
No, it was a democratic vote which clearly won.
If the Brexit vote is not delivered I suspect many Tories and Brexit Party voters would refuse to accept a Corbyn, Corbyn/LD/SNP government and mass protests and civil disobedience would begin straight away.
@HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.
I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.
I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
So why do you back No Deal?
I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
But why?
As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.
Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
We voted for Leave with the expectation that our political class would negotiate a sensible deal. We did not vote for No Deal. If you do not personally advocate No Deal there is no obligation to support it.
Hypothetical question for HYUFD - do you believe that No deal Brexit will be severely harmful to the economy and the livelihoods of millions of the country’s citizens. If you did would it inform your view of whether we should follow through “because we voted for Brexit”? How harmful would the outcome have to be for you to change your mind?
Not as harmful as a Corbyn government no but I would respect that if it won a majority or most seats and the Brexit vote was also respected
HYUFD mistakenly believes that everyone who voted Leave supports Leave in any form. Deal or No Deal.
This is of course bollocks, and so undermines the rest of his 'We must No Deal' thesis.
The vast majority of Leave voters as every poll shows want Brexit with a Deal or No Deal on October 32st, diehard Remainers refuse to deliver either
You are a diehard remainer. The sooner you realise that the party you once supported no longer wants you the better.
Dominic Grieve is a diehard Remainer, Sam Gyimah is a diehard Remainer, s.
I am still a Tory
You voted Remain, HYUFD.
(No) Deal with it!
I also respect democracy, unlike diehard Remainers
You still voted Remain! The obvious question is "why?".
Because the then leader of the Tory Party told him too. The next told him to support the WDA, and he did. The new one wants No Deal. Guess what? If they told him to paint his bottom blue and invade Liechtenstein, he'd be strapping on a parachute and sitting in a can of dulux somewhere over Vaduz before the day was out.
As I said I would have voted Leave if the Euro had been a requirement but I also respect democracy, we had a referendum and Leave won. Brexit thus must be delivered.
Otherwise why have democracy at all? If Corbyn wins the next general election do you expect the Tories to be demanding another general election the following day and trying to prevent him forming a government? No, they would oppose him but respect the will of the people and try and beat him at the next general election.
If diehard Remainers want to Remain they can campaign to rejoin the EU after we have left it and respected the result of the first vote
You conceded the other day that if a pro 2nd referendum party, campaigned and one a GE on that platform, conducted said referendum, and the vote was remain, then that would be a democratic outcome.
Also a second referendum: no deal Brexit versus remain would not be ignoring the result of the first referendum because it would be asking a different thing!
If after we left the EU a party won a majority on a platform to have a referendum to rejoin the EU and rejoin won then fine but we must have respected the result of the first referendum first
Forget @HYUFD It's the Lexit/Non Tory voters I can't figure out. What the hell did they think they were voting for* ?! *I know Rochdale_Pioneers has repented so I'm leaving him out of this, but @SandyRentool for instance ?
I voted to escape an undemocratic capitalist hegemony. And to give Cameron a kick in the nads.
@HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.
I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.
I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
So why do you back No Deal?
I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
But why?
As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.
Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
Er, they wouldn’t... And if they could persuade enough people in Parliament to reject his policies they would be free to do so.
@HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.
I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.
I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
So why do you back No Deal?
I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
But why?
As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.
Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
We voted for Leave with the expectation that our political class would negotiate a sensible deal. We did not vote for No Deal. If you do not personally advocate No Deal there is no obligation to support it.
Campaign for what you believe in.
We voted to Leave, there was no part of the question about Leaving only with a Deal
@HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.
I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.
I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
So why do you back No Deal?
I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
But why?
As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.
Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
Advisory referendum, no legal obligation to fulfill it it especially when it is a stupid decision.
No, it was a democratic vote which clearly won.
If the Brexit vote is not delivered I suspect many Tories and Brexit Party voters would refuse to accept a Corbyn, Corbyn/LD/SNP government and mass protests and civil disobedience would begin straight away.
I certainly would be tempted
Why should I give a shit what Tory’s think?and as for TBP voters even less if you can’t see that you are being manipulated into supporting policies that makes the likes of Tice, Mogg and co loads of money at the expense of the less well off that’s your problem. I’ve still not seen a single argument that explains how most people gain anything from this rich elite driven project.
@HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.
I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.
I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
So why do you back No Deal?
I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
But why?
As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.
Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
Er, they wouldn’t... And if they could persuade enough people in Parliament to reject his policies they would be free to do so.
At a subsequent general election yes but the elected Corbyn government has to be formed first
Forget @HYUFD It's the Lexit/Non Tory voters I can't figure out. What the hell did they think they were voting for* ?! *I know Rochdale_Pioneers has repented so I'm leaving him out of this, but @SandyRentool for instance ?
I voted to escape an undemocratic capitalist hegemony. And to give Cameron a kick in the nads.
You got rid of Cameron and replaced him with May who was far worse, but now we have Boris who is quite like Cameron so not sure what that achieved?
@HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.
I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.
I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
So why do you back No Deal?
I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
But why?
As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.
Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
We voted for Leave with the expectation that our political class would negotiate a sensible deal. We did not vote for No Deal. If you do not personally advocate No Deal there is no obligation to support it.
Campaign for what you believe in.
We voted to Leave, there was no part of the question about Leaving only with a Deal
You voted to remain. There was no part of the question about remaining without joining the Euro.
@HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.
I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.
I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
So why do you back No Deal?
I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
But why?
As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.
Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
Advisory referendum, no legal obligation to fulfill it it especially when it is a stupid decision.
No, it was a democratic vote which clearly won.
If the Brexit vote is not delivered I suspect many Tories and Brexit Party voters would refuse to accept a Corbyn, Corbyn/LD/SNP government and mass protests and civil disobedience would begin straight away.
I certainly would be tempted
Why should I give a shit what Tory’s think?and as for TBP voters even less if you can’t see that you are being manipulated into supporting policies that makes the likes of Tice, Mogg and co loads of money at the expense of the less well off that’s your problem. I’ve still not seen a single argument that explains how most people gain anything from this rich elite driven project.
Leavers voted for more sovereignty, border control and the right to do our own trade deals but even if you disagree with all of that and want to campaign to rejoin the EU that campaign must only begin after we have left the EU as the first vote won a majority to do
One more thing. Do you believe that somebody aged under 18 in 2016 is obliged to accept the “result” of the referendum?
Yes, just as they are obliged to accept a democratically elected government they were not old enough to vote for
So they are not allowed to use democratic means to oppose the decisions made by that Government? Why do we have such a thing in our constitution as “the official opposition” if they are not allowed to oppose?
Comments
As a diehard remainer you are not welcome in today's Conservative party. Because you disagree with their policy on Brexit.
@HYUFD = diehard remainer.
Mindfulness meditation is not all it is cracked up to be, apparently.
(No) Deal with it!
I sail transatlantic in three weeks’ time, and won’t return until mid-October. Please keep everything quiet on the politics front until I return. Talk about cricket, or something.
Currently we use AD (or ACE if you're a souless Hellbound atheist) and the Gregorian calendar. And many people know that we used to use the Julian calendar and that there was a fuss when we swapped. But not many know that the date of the end of the year changed, and did not do so consistently.
Gauke is not Grieve who voted against the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal
You voted remain. You are a diehard remainer.
Feel free to DM me if you'd like some recs for Rhode Island, if you're visiting there, and NYC.
I reckon it was a case of the bubble getting ahead of itself. It could see that there were issues with Corbyn regarding Brexit, but the general public hadn't got to that point by 2017. Brexit supporting Labour voters happily voted Labour and Remainers saw Labour as the best vehicle for hurting May and the Tories.
That's changed now, and Labour's difficulties on Brexit are there for all to see. But how would things play out in a GE? That's the big question.If the Brexit Party vote collapses in the way the Ukip vote did in 2017, how do voters react? In many seats remainers are going to have to vote Labour again to stop the Tories. Will they do it?
If it is opinion polling, the will of the people is remain ahead of leave, so lets remain.
If it is elections, the only mandate for no deal is the 1.8% who voted UKIP at the last general election. 98.2% voted for at least a deal, so lets leave with a deal.
There is no mandate or majority for no deal which is why you are flirting with a coup to deliver it and starting to use fascist language.
Surely you won't be so duplicitous and pathetic as to remain in a party whose policy you disagree with.
Others yes but not you, @HYUFD. Because you are a diehard remainer.
"I am an exceptional Remainer, Mrs McClain, and as I'm about to upgrade to Diehard Remainer, you should be more polite"
@HYUFD is not the kind of guy to change his mind about something so important. He is a man of honour. He will resign from the Conservative party shortly I am sure
Did you get the kettle to Mallaig?
It is a pre 80th birthday present for my dear wife and Nova Scotia is of great interest to her as several of her forebears emigrated from the North of Scotland there
We have a busy excursion itinerary including the two day stop in NY.
We have visited NY before but it has been a shared dream of ours to sail into NY as per the transatlantic liners of the 50's which we remember so well
@HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=panXG0bFNkM
I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
Otherwise why have democracy at all? If Corbyn wins the next general election do you expect the Tories to be demanding another general election the following day and trying to prevent him forming a government? No, they would oppose him but respect the will of the people and try and beat him at the next general election.
If diehard Remainers want to Remain they can campaign to rejoin the EU after we have left it and respected the result of the first vote
https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-24th-july-2019/
Just teasing you
Also a second referendum: no deal Brexit versus remain would not be ignoring the result of the first referendum because it would be asking a different thing!
Although that's like saying somebody is less of a Marxist than John McDonnell.
*I know Rochdale_Pioneers has repented so I'm leaving him out of this, but @SandyRentool for instance ?
Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
It is the leader-principle.
If the Brexit vote is not delivered I suspect many Tories and Brexit Party voters would refuse to accept a Corbyn, Corbyn/LD/SNP government and mass protests and civil disobedience would begin straight away.
I certainly would be tempted
Campaign for what you believe in.
I suggested that a rapid cure was to spend a day in Neath.
But you would need to go to Swansea first, so probably not such a good deal.
You voted to remain. There was no part of the question about remaining without joining the Euro.
And on that note, good night.
So they are not allowed to use democratic means to oppose the decisions made by that Government? Why do we have such a thing in our constitution as “the official opposition” if they are not allowed to oppose?