Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Despite the dire polling, Jeremy Corbyn is not going anywhere

12346»

Comments

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Goodnight all.

    @HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.

    I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.

    I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
    So why do you back No Deal?
    I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
    But why?

    As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.

    Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
    We voted for Leave with the expectation that our political class would negotiate a sensible deal. We did not vote for No Deal. If you do not personally advocate No Deal there is no obligation to support it.

    Campaign for what you believe in.
    We voted to Leave, there was no part of the question about Leaving only with a Deal
    So you voted Remain, are against No Deal, but feel obliged to support it because of a misguided belief that this is the will of the people.

    It isn't, so don't.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    I enjoy taking the girlfriend for a weekend up the Wrexham.

    And on that note, good night.

    That was a positively Maelorficient post.
  • I enjoy taking the girlfriend for a weekend up the Wrexham.

    And on that note, good night.

    General or Central?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited August 2019
    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Goodnight all.

    @HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.

    I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.

    I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
    So why do you back No Deal?
    I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
    But why?

    As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.

    Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
    Advisory referendum, no legal obligation to fulfill it it especially when it is a stupid decision.
    No, it was a democratic vote which clearly won.

    If the Brexit vote is not delivered I suspect many Tories and Brexit Party voters would refuse to accept a Corbyn, Corbyn/LD/SNP government and mass protests and civil disobedience would begin straight away.

    I certainly would be tempted
    Why should I give a shit what Tory’s think?and as for TBP voters even less if you can’t see that you are being manipulated into supporting policies that makes the likes of Tice, Mogg and co loads of money at the expense of the less well off that’s your problem. I’ve still not seen a single argument that explains how most people gain anything from this rich elite driven project.
    Leavers voted for more sovereignty, border control and the right to do our own trade deals but even if you disagree with all of that and want to campaign to rejoin the EU that campaign must only begin after we have left the EU as the first vote won a majority to do
    Which of those can I eat for breakfast? Also you know full well leaving will negate all our hard won special terms and rejoining will involve euro, schengen etc etc but if your happy to let them, the really rich people, to continue to hide their wealth which otherwise they were going to have to declare and pay taxes on so be it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Goodnight all.

    @HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.

    I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.

    I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
    So why do you back No Deal?
    I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
    But why?

    As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.

    Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
    We voted for Leave with the expectation that our political class would negotiate a sensible deal. We did not vote for No Deal. If you do not personally advocate No Deal there is no obligation to support it.

    Campaign for what you believe in.
    We voted to Leave, there was no part of the question about Leaving only with a Deal

    You voted to remain. There was no part of the question about remaining without joining the Euro.

    It was to Remain as we were, if in a few years time there was an application to join the Euro I may have switched to backing Leave but nonetheless if the vote was to join the Euro I would have reluctantly accepted it but campaigned to bring back sterling once we had joined the Euro
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Goodnight all.

    @HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.

    I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.

    I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
    So why do you back No Deal?
    I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
    But why?

    As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.

    Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
    Advisory referendum, no legal obligation to fulfill it it especially when it is a stupid decision.
    No, it was a democratic vote which clearly won.

    If the Brexit vote is not delivered I suspect many Tories and Brexit Party voters would refuse to accept a Corbyn, Corbyn/LD/SNP government and mass protests and civil disobedience would begin straight away.

    I certainly would be tempted
    Why should I give a shit what Tory’s think?and as for TBP voters even less if you can’t see that you are being manipulated into supporting policies that makes the likes of Tice, Mogg and co loads of money at the expense of the less well off that’s your problem. I’ve still not seen a single argument that explains how most people gain anything from this rich elite driven project.
    Leavers voted for more sovereignty, border control and the right to do our own trade deals but even if you disagree with all of that and want to campaign to rejoin the EU that campaign must only begin after we have left the EU as the first vote won a majority to do
    How do you know what Leavers voted for? None of those things were on the ballot paper.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    That By-election result was great! The "Remain Alliance" trounced the Boris Brexiteers. :smiley:

    If Boris cannot win in a seat that voted 52/48 then maybe we should be holding a Final Say vote to make sure we are not wrecking peoples lives on out of date opinion.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    Pulpstar said:

    Forget @HYUFD It's the Lexit/Non Tory voters I can't figure out. What the hell did they think they were voting for* ?!
    *I know Rochdale_Pioneers has repented so I'm leaving him out of this, but @SandyRentool for instance ?

    I voted to escape an undemocratic capitalist hegemony. And to give Cameron a kick in the nads.
    You got rid of Cameron and replaced him with May who was far worse, but now we have Boris who is quite like Cameron so not sure what that achieved?
    We have a Tory Party tearing lumps out of itself. That will do for now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    One more thing. Do you believe that somebody aged under 18 in 2016 is obliged to accept the “result” of the referendum?

    Yes, just as they are obliged to accept a democratically elected government they were not old enough to vote for

    So they are not allowed to use democratic means to oppose the decisions made by that Government? Why do we have such a thing in our constitution as “the official opposition” if they are not allowed to oppose?
    They can oppose they cannot overthrow as it won a general election mandate until the next general election
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited August 2019
    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Goodnight all.

    @HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.

    I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.

    I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
    So why do you back No Deal?
    I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
    But why?

    As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.

    Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
    Advisory referendum, no legal obligation to fulfill it it especially when it is a stupid decision.
    No, it was a democratic vote which clearly won.

    If the Brexit vote is not delivered I suspect many Tories and Brexit Party voters would refuse to accept a Corbyn, Corbyn/LD/SNP government and mass protests and civil disobedience would begin straight away.

    I certainly would be tempted
    Why should I give a shit what Tory’s think?and as for TBP voters even less if you can’t see that you are being manipulated into supporting policies that makes the likes of Tice, Mogg and co loads of money at the expense of the less well off that’s your problem. I’ve still not seen a single argument that explains how most people gain anything from this rich elite driven project.
    Leavers voted for more sovereignty, border control and the right to do our own trade deals but even if you disagree with all of that and want to campaign to rejoin the EU that campaign must only begin after we have left the EU as the first vote won a majority to do
    How do you know what Leavers voted for? None of those things were on the ballot paper.
    The only thing on the ballot paper was to Leave the EU which must be delivered
  • ydoethur said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Goodnight all.

    @HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.

    I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.

    I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
    What is wrong with Merthyr Tydfil in November ?
    It looks like a de-militarised zone, but all year round not just in November.
    Merthyr's not that bad. Much nicer than Abercynon.
    Somebody once told me that it was depressing to spend time in Swansea.

    I suggested that a rapid cure was to spend a day in Neath.
    Sky reported earlier that you can buy sex for £5 in Swansea.

    But you would need to go to Swansea first, so probably not such a good deal.
    There are even some trains that avoid Swansea:
    Saturdays: 1243 Fishguard Harbour - Cardiff Central
    Sundays: 1240 Fishguard Harbour - Cardiff Central
    Sundays: 1205 Cardiff Central - Milford Haven
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    That By-election result was great! The "Remain Alliance" trounced the Boris Brexiteers. :smiley:

    If Boris cannot win in a seat that voted 52/48 then maybe we should be holding a Final Say vote to make sure we are not wrecking peoples lives on out of date opinion.

    The LDs won by 4.5% over the Tories and more people voted for Leave parties than Remain parties
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    justin124 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Interesting to compare the result of the B&R by-election with the one held in 1985, on exactly the same boundaries. The Liberals / LDs got almost the same number of votes, the Tories were 2,000 higher, and Labour 12,000 lower. Labour lost 87% of their votes over that time.

    Right through to 2017 they had a decent rump, the BE result looks dire for them.
    .
    The only thing suicidal for Johnson would be extending again, do that and the Tories are guaranteed to fall behind the Brexit Party
    Don't get me wrong. Given the position he's put himself in, it's quite possible that every option Johnson has will be suicidal.
    The only suicidal action Boris could take would be to extend again and let the Brexit Party overtake the Tories as the main party of the right
    So how does Boris get to the position where we leave on October 31st.

    I note that even the Freeport announcement falls apart when it's pointed out it offers nothing we can't do today were it not for lack of previous Government disinterest.
    By refusing an extension and committing to prorogue Parliament if necessary at the end of October to deliver Brexit and respect the will of the people
    Who gets to decide the will of the people? If its you and a bunch of your Eton/Oxbridge elite mates that truly is a fascist use of the phrase.

    If it is opinion polling, the will of the people is remain ahead of leave, so lets remain.

    If it is elections, the only mandate for no deal is the 1.8% who voted UKIP at the last general election. 98.2% voted for at least a deal, so lets leave with a deal.

    There is no mandate or majority for no deal which is why you are flirting with a coup to deliver it and starting to use fascist language.
    Latest Opinium poll last weekend, Leave on 31st October even with No Deal 45%, revoke Article 50 and Remain 28%, extend again 13%
    https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-24th-july-2019/
    Just to confirm, are you saying opinion polls define the will of the people that we must all follow?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    That By-election result was great! The "Remain Alliance" trounced the Boris Brexiteers. :smiley:

    If Boris cannot win in a seat that voted 52/48 then maybe we should be holding a Final Say vote to make sure we are not wrecking peoples lives on out of date opinion.

    Yet another poster drawing all the wrong conclusions from this seat.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Goodnight all.

    @HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.

    I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.

    I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
    So why do you back No Deal?
    I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
    But why?

    As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.

    Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
    We voted for Leave with the expectation that our political class would negotiate a sensible deal. We did not vote for No Deal. If you do not personally advocate No Deal there is no obligation to support it.

    Campaign for what you believe in.
    We voted to Leave, there was no part of the question about Leaving only with a Deal

    You voted to remain. There was no part of the question about remaining without joining the Euro.

    It was to Remain as we were, if in a few years time there was an application to join the Euro I may have switched to backing Leave but nonetheless if the vote was to join the Euro I would have reluctantly accepted it but campaigned to bring back sterling once we had joined the Euro
    No, it was just “to remain in the EU”. In fact the leave campaign specifically argued that remain was NOT a “status quo” option

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    I enjoy taking the girlfriend for a weekend up the Wrexham....

    Sounds an inordinately long time to spend in such a place....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Goodnight all.

    @HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.

    I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.

    I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
    What is wrong with Merthyr Tydfil in November ?
    It looks like a de-militarised zone, but all year round not just in November.
    Merthyr's not that bad. Much nicer than Abercynon.
    Somebody once told me that it was depressing to spend time in Swansea.

    I suggested that a rapid cure was to spend a day in Neath.
    Sky reported earlier that you can buy sex for £5 in Swansea.

    But you would need to go to Swansea first, so probably not such a good deal.
    There are even some trains that avoid Swansea:
    Saturdays: 1243 Fishguard Harbour - Cardiff Central
    Sundays: 1240 Fishguard Harbour - Cardiff Central
    Sundays: 1205 Cardiff Central - Milford Haven
    Isn't Swansea on a sort of side-branch of the GWML? So trains have to reverse out?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    One more thing. Do you believe that somebody aged under 18 in 2016 is obliged to accept the “result” of the referendum?

    Yes, just as they are obliged to accept a democratically elected government they were not old enough to vote for

    So they are not allowed to use democratic means to oppose the decisions made by that Government? Why do we have such a thing in our constitution as “the official opposition” if they are not allowed to oppose?
    They can oppose they cannot overthrow as it won a general election mandate until the next general election
    If the government cannot command a majority in Parliament, of course they can overthrow it.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Goodnight all.

    @HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.

    I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.

    I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
    So why do you back No Deal?
    I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
    But why?

    As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.

    Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
    Advisory referendum, no legal obligation to fulfill it it especially when it is a stupid decision.
    No, it was a democratic vote which clearly won.

    If the Brexit vote is not delivered I suspect many Tories and Brexit Party voters would refuse to accept a Corbyn, Corbyn/LD/SNP government and mass protests and civil disobedience would begin straight away.

    I certainly would be tempted
    Why should I give a shit what Tory’s think?and as for TBP voters even less if you can’t see that you are being manipulated into supporting policies that makes the likes of Tice, Mogg and co loads of money at the expense of the less well off that’s your problem. I’ve still not seen a single argument that explains how most people gain anything from this rich elite driven project.
    Leavers voted for more sovereignty, border control and the right to do our own trade deals but even if you disagree with all of that and want to campaign to rejoin the EU that campaign must only begin after we have left the EU as the first vote won a majority to do
    How do you know what Leavers voted for? None of those things were on the ballot paper.
    The only thing on the ballot paper was to Leave the EU which must be delivered
    At the cost of breaking up the UK?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    ydoethur said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Goodnight all.

    @HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.

    I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.

    I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
    What is wrong with Merthyr Tydfil in November ?
    It looks like a de-militarised zone, but all year round not just in November.
    Merthyr's not that bad. Much nicer than Abercynon.
    Somebody once told me that it was depressing to spend time in Swansea.

    I suggested that a rapid cure was to spend a day in Neath.
    Sky reported earlier that you can buy sex for £5 in Swansea.

    But you would need to go to Swansea first, so probably not such a good deal.
    There are even some trains that avoid Swansea:
    Saturdays: 1243 Fishguard Harbour - Cardiff Central
    Sundays: 1240 Fishguard Harbour - Cardiff Central
    Sundays: 1205 Cardiff Central - Milford Haven
    I require the avoiding line. And the Fishguard and Pembroke branches.

    I've been to Milford Haven. I saw the Haven, but I didn't see much Milf.
  • As a good Muslim boy I don't drink wine but is blue wine an abomination up there with putting pineapple on pizzas?

    French authorities have launched a prosecution against the makers of Corsican blue wine, Imajyne.

    “There is no way that a wine can be naturally blue,” the French general department for competition, consumers and the repression of frauds said in a statement.

    The news follows research by chemists at the University of Toulouse who revealed that the wine contained E133, also known as Brilliant Blue FCF, a synthetic dye also used in the production of curacao.

    The use of dye in wine production is strictly prohibited in France.


    https://harpers.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/25678/French_authorities_move_against_makers_of_blue_wine.html
  • Bozo looking vaguely sensible on Sky News at Whaley Bridge.

    That wont wo his polling numbers any good...the great british British public love nothing more than seeing boris falling over in a massive puddle or something equally hilarious.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited August 2019

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Goodnight all.

    @HYUFD think carefully about which party is best for you. As a diehard remainer perhaps it is the LibDems.

    I AM NOT A DIEHARD REMAINER, I backed the Withdrawal Agreement and back No Deal over No Brexit.

    I would rather spend a fortnight in Merthyr Tydfil in November than deliver Focus leaflets
    So why do you back No Deal?
    I back Brexit Deal or No Deal
    But why?

    As I respect democracy, we voted Leave and must Leave.

    Otherwise if Corbyn wins the next general election if Brexit is not delivered despite winning the referendum why should Tories accept a Corbyn government either?
    Advisory referendum, no legal obligation to fulfill it it especially when it is a stupid decision.
    No, it was a democratic vote which clearly won.

    If the Brexit vote is not delivered I suspect many Tories and Brexit Party voters would refuse to accept a Corbyn, Corbyn/LD/SNP government and mass protests and civil disobedience would begin straight away.

    I certainly would be tempted
    Why should I give a shit what Tory’s think?and as for TBP voters even less if you can’t see that you are being manipulated into supporting policies that makes the likes of Tice, Mogg and co loads of money at the expense of the less well off that’s your problem. I’ve still not seen a single argument that explains how most people gain anything from this rich elite driven project.
    Leavers voted for more sovereignty, border control and the right to do our own trade deals but even if you disagree with all of that and want to campaign to rejoin the EU that campaign must only begin after we have left the EU as the first vote won a majority to do
    How do you know what Leavers voted for? None of those things were on the ballot paper.
    The only thing on the ballot paper was to Leave the EU which must be delivered
    At the cost of breaking up the UK?
    In an ideal world no and no guarantee it would do but if the only thing keeping most Scots and residents of Northern Ireland in the UK is being part of the EU then so be it
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    One more thing. Do you believe that somebody aged under 18 in 2016 is obliged to accept the “result” of the referendum?

    Yes, just as they are obliged to accept a democratically elected government they were not old enough to vote for

    So they are not allowed to use democratic means to oppose the decisions made by that Government? Why do we have such a thing in our constitution as “the official opposition” if they are not allowed to oppose?
    They can oppose they cannot overthrow as it won a general election mandate until the next general election
    If the government cannot command a majority in Parliament, of course they can overthrow it.
    Leave won a majority, if a Corbyn government also won a majority of course they could not.

    However if a referendum majority is not respected why should a Corbyn government majority be either?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    One more thing. Do you believe that somebody aged under 18 in 2016 is obliged to accept the “result” of the referendum?

    Yes, just as they are obliged to accept a democratically elected government they were not old enough to vote for

    So they are not allowed to use democratic means to oppose the decisions made by that Government? Why do we have such a thing in our constitution as “the official opposition” if they are not allowed to oppose?
    They can oppose they cannot overthrow as it won a general election mandate until the next general election
    Of course they can overthrow. They just need to win a VONC
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    As a good Muslim boy I don't drink wine but is blue wine an abomination up there with putting pineapple on pizzas?

    French authorities have launched a prosecution against the makers of Corsican blue wine, Imajyne.

    “There is no way that a wine can be naturally blue,” the French general department for competition, consumers and the repression of frauds said in a statement.

    The news follows research by chemists at the University of Toulouse who revealed that the wine contained E133, also known as Brilliant Blue FCF, a synthetic dye also used in the production of curacao.

    The use of dye in wine production is strictly prohibited in France.


    https://harpers.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/25678/French_authorities_move_against_makers_of_blue_wine.html

    Far worse. At least pineapple has some nutritional benefits.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    HYUFD said:

    That By-election result was great! The "Remain Alliance" trounced the Boris Brexiteers. :smiley:

    If Boris cannot win in a seat that voted 52/48 then maybe we should be holding a Final Say vote to make sure we are not wrecking peoples lives on out of date opinion.

    The LDs won by 4.5% over the Tories and more people voted for Leave parties than Remain parties
    The LD still won! :smiley: The Tories have one less MP and in that one less Brexiteer in Parliament! The Tories were defeated in a seat they held with an 8,000 majority which equates to about 20%. From this one can conclude the Tories do have a problem and Boris cannot fix it...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    justin124 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Interesting to compare the result of the B&R by-election with the one held in 1985, on exactly the same boundaries. The Liberals / LDs got almost the same number of votes, the Tories were 2,000 higher, and Labour 12,000 lower. Labour lost 87% of their votes over that time.

    Right through to 2017 they had a decent rump, the BE result looks dire for them.
    .
    The only thing suicidal for Johnson would be extending again, do that and the Tories are guaranteed to fall behind the Brexit Party
    Don't get me wrong. Given the position he's put himself in, it's quite possible that every option Johnson has will be suicidal.
    The only suicidal action Boris could take would be to extend again and let the Brexit Party overtake the Tories as the main party of the right
    So how does Boris get to the position where we leave on October 31st.

    I note that even the Freeport announcement falls apart when it's pointed out it offers nothing we can't do today were it not for lack of previous Government disinterest.
    By refusing an extension and committing to prorogue Parliament if necessary at the end of October to deliver Brexit and respect the will of the people
    Who gets to decide the will of the people? If its you and a bunch of your Eton/Oxbridge elite mates that truly is a fascist use of the phrase.

    If it is opinion polling, the will of the people is remain ahead of leave, so lets remain.

    If it is elections, the only mandate for no deal is the 1.8% who voted UKIP at the last general election. 98.2% voted for at least a deal, so lets leave with a deal.

    There is no mandate or majority for no deal which is why you are flirting with a coup to deliver it and starting to use fascist language.
    Latest Opinium poll last weekend, Leave on 31st October even with No Deal 45%, revoke Article 50 and Remain 28%, extend again 13%
    https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-24th-july-2019/
    Just to confirm, are you saying opinion polls define the will of the people that we must all follow?
    Majority votes certainly do, as with the vote to Leave the EU
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    HYUFD said:

    That By-election result was great! The "Remain Alliance" trounced the Boris Brexiteers. :smiley:

    If Boris cannot win in a seat that voted 52/48 then maybe we should be holding a Final Say vote to make sure we are not wrecking peoples lives on out of date opinion.

    The LDs won by 4.5% over the Tories and more people voted for Leave parties than Remain parties
    The LD still won! :smiley: The Tories have one less MP and in that one less Brexiteer in Parliament! The Tories were defeated in a seat they held with an 8,000 majority which equates to about 20%. From this one can conclude the Tories do have a problem and Boris cannot fix it...
    Not in this seat you can't.

    That said, it was a pretty emphatic win for the Liberal Democrats.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited August 2019

    HYUFD said:

    That By-election result was great! The "Remain Alliance" trounced the Boris Brexiteers. :smiley:

    If Boris cannot win in a seat that voted 52/48 then maybe we should be holding a Final Say vote to make sure we are not wrecking peoples lives on out of date opinion.

    The LDs won by 4.5% over the Tories and more people voted for Leave parties than Remain parties
    The LD still won! :smiley: The Tories have one less MP and in that one less Brexiteer in Parliament! The Tories were defeated in a seat they held with an 8,000 majority which equates to about 20%. From this one can conclude the Tories do have a problem and Boris cannot fix it...
    On the latest Yougov and Mori polls giving Tory majorities the Tories would still have lost Brecon to the LDs but won a majority with gains from Labour, even last night there was a Labour to Tory swing in Brecon
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    One more thing. Do you believe that somebody aged under 18 in 2016 is obliged to accept the “result” of the referendum?

    Yes, just as they are obliged to accept a democratically elected government they were not old enough to vote for

    So they are not allowed to use democratic means to oppose the decisions made by that Government? Why do we have such a thing in our constitution as “the official opposition” if they are not allowed to oppose?
    They can oppose they cannot overthrow as it won a general election mandate until the next general election
    Of course they can overthrow. They just need to win a VONC
    Which they won't if the government has a majority as Leave won a majority
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    HYUFD said:


    In an ideal world no and no guarantee it would do but if the only thing keeping most Scots and residents of Northern Ireland in the UK is being part of the EU then so be it

    Well you are entitled to your opinion but IMHO national suicide was not on the ballot paper in 2016 and the reaction of most people when faced with a potential suicide case is to do everything possible to prevent it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    That By-election result was great! The "Remain Alliance" trounced the Boris Brexiteers. :smiley:

    If Boris cannot win in a seat that voted 52/48 then maybe we should be holding a Final Say vote to make sure we are not wrecking peoples lives on out of date opinion.

    The LDs won by 4.5% over the Tories and more people voted for Leave parties than Remain parties
    The LD still won! :smiley: The Tories have one less MP and in that one less Brexiteer in Parliament! The Tories were defeated in a seat they held with an 8,000 majority which equates to about 20%. From this one can conclude the Tories do have a problem and Boris cannot fix it...
    On the latest Yougov and Mori polls giving Tory majorities the Tories would still have lost Brecon to the LDs but won a majority with gain a from Labour, even last night there was a Labour to Tory swing in Brecon
    Like we can meaningfully translate yesterday's result to what will happen in Keighley at the next GE.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    ydoethur said:

    That By-election result was great! The "Remain Alliance" trounced the Boris Brexiteers. :smiley:

    If Boris cannot win in a seat that voted 52/48 then maybe we should be holding a Final Say vote to make sure we are not wrecking peoples lives on out of date opinion.

    Yet another poster drawing all the wrong conclusions from this seat.
    I notice the Brexit supporting media in panic mode! The Daily Express for instance is now doing a not so subtle opinion poll to enthuse TBP to change allegiance back to voting Tory and for Boris! I also note that in order to move media attention from the stinging defeat in B & R. Boris Johnson is now doing similar activity in Whaley Bridge compared to Gordon Brown and the 2007 floods. Talk about shallow and utterly pathetic use of problems Johnson or Brown would never bother turning up for if a GE was not forthcoming...
  • That By-election result was great! The "Remain Alliance" trounced the Boris Brexiteers. :smiley:

    If Boris cannot win in a seat that voted 52/48 then maybe we should be holding a Final Say vote to make sure we are not wrecking peoples lives on out of date opinion.

    It is a period of civil war. Remainer spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Tory Empire.

    During the battle, Remainer spies managed to steal secret plans to the Tories' ultimate weapon, the BORIS BOUNCER, an armored space station with enough power to knock up an entire parliamentary seat.

    Pursued by the Tories' sinister agents, Princess Jo races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her party and restore freedom to the Continent....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    Can I just say that if it wasn’t for a truly brilliant and world class innings by Smith the test match would be all over. As it is England are in a very, very strong position. If they bat until mid afternoon they will be over120 runs ahead which, on that pitch, really should be enough for a decisive position.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    One more thing. Do you believe that somebody aged under 18 in 2016 is obliged to accept the “result” of the referendum?

    Yes, just as they are obliged to accept a democratically elected government they were not old enough to vote for

    So they are not allowed to use democratic means to oppose the decisions made by that Government? Why do we have such a thing in our constitution as “the official opposition” if they are not allowed to oppose?
    They can oppose they cannot overthrow as it won a general election mandate until the next general election
    Of course they can overthrow. They just need to win a VONC
    Which they won't if the government has a majority as Leave won a majority
    But you agree that the opposition have the right to test whether that majority still exists by calling a VONC.

    Just like we could test whether there is a public majority for No Deal.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    edited August 2019

    Bozo looking vaguely sensible on Sky News at Whaley Bridge.

    Looking at something that is about to collapse?

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    That By-election result was great! The "Remain Alliance" trounced the Boris Brexiteers. :smiley:

    If Boris cannot win in a seat that voted 52/48 then maybe we should be holding a Final Say vote to make sure we are not wrecking peoples lives on out of date opinion.

    Yet another poster drawing all the wrong conclusions from this seat.
    I notice the Brexit supporting media in panic mode! The Daily Express for instance is now doing a not so subtle opinion poll to enthuse TBP to change allegiance back to voting Tory and for Boris! I also note that in order to move media attention from the stinging defeat in B & R. Boris Johnson is now doing similar activity in Whaley Bridge compared to Gordon Brown and the 2007 floods. Talk about shallow and utterly pathetic use of problems Johnson or Brown would never bother turning up for if a GE was not forthcoming...
    Yes. Because they are also pig-ignorant of the nuances of Welsh politics.

    It will be quite funny to watch but it is at best a self-fulfilling narrative.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    edited August 2019
    test
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    DavidL said:

    Can I just say that if it wasn’t for a truly brilliant and world class innings by Smith the test match would be all over. As it is England are in a very, very strong position. If they bat until mid afternoon they will be over120 runs ahead which, on that pitch, really should be enough for a decisive position.

    When they're all out for 283 tomorrow and Smith has scored 124 out of Australia's 200-9, we will know who to blame!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited August 2019

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    One more thing. Do you believe that somebody aged under 18 in 2016 is obliged to accept the “result” of the referendum?

    Yes, just as they are obliged to accept a democratically elected government they were not old enough to vote for

    So they are not allowed to use democratic means to oppose the decisions made by that Government? Why do we have such a thing in our constitution as “the official opposition” if they are not allowed to oppose?
    They can oppose they cannot overthrow as it won a general election mandate until the next general election
    Of course they can overthrow. They just need to win a VONC
    Which they won't if the government has a majority as Leave won a majority
    But you agree that the opposition have the right to test whether that majority still exists by calling a VONC.

    Just like we could test whether there is a public majority for No Deal.
    To have a VONC the Government would to have been appointed to respect the general election result in the first place.

    Just like the majority to Leave would have to have been respected before a referendum could be held to rejoin the EU rather than persist with No Deal
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Bozo looking vaguely sensible on Sky News at Whaley Bridge.

    Looking at a dam about to collapse?

    It could be used as a metaphor for his Government... :smiley:
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    Bozo looking vaguely sensible on Sky News at Whaley Bridge.

    Looking at a dam about to collapse?

    Thankfully the dam doesn't appear to be as fragile as Bozo's parliamentary majority.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just say that if it wasn’t for a truly brilliant and world class innings by Smith the test match would be all over. As it is England are in a very, very strong position. If they bat until mid afternoon they will be over120 runs ahead which, on that pitch, really should be enough for a decisive position.

    When they're all out for 283 tomorrow and Smith has scored 124 out of Australia's 200-9, we will know who to blame!
    Yes, we’re doomed now.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited August 2019

    Bozo looking vaguely sensible on Sky News at Whaley Bridge.

    Looking at a dam about to collapse?

    It could be used as a metaphor for his Government... :smiley:
    "Dodgy but Stable"

    It's not Strong 'n Stable, but it'll do.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    edited August 2019
    On Topic What dire polling?

    Boris UnBounce

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 30% (+3)
    CON: 29% (+1)
    LDEM: 16% (-3)
    BREX: 15% (-1)
    GRN: 5% (+1)

    via
    @ComRes
    , 26 - 28 Jul
    Chgs. w/ 25 Jul
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    One more thing. Do you believe that somebody aged under 18 in 2016 is obliged to accept the “result” of the referendum?

    Yes, just as they are obliged to accept a democratically elected government they were not old enough to vote for

    So they are not allowed to use democratic means to oppose the decisions made by that Government? Why do we have such a thing in our constitution as “the official opposition” if they are not allowed to oppose?
    They can oppose they cannot overthrow as it won a general election mandate until the next general election
    Of course they can overthrow. They just need to win a VONC
    Which they won't if the government has a majority as Leave won a majority
    But you agree that the opposition have the right to test whether that majority still exists by calling a VONC.

    Just like we could test whether there is a public majority for No Deal.
    To have a VONC the Government would to have been appointed to respect the general election result in the first place.

    Just like the majority to Leave would have to have been respected before a referendum could be held to rejoin the EU rather than persist with No Deal
    We did not vote for No Deal. No Deal does not respect the result. It exploits the result for the benefit of the hard right.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    I am puzzled by the Labour surge! I thought they have had a lousy few months. Maybe Boris repels people back to supporting Labour in ways TM did not?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    The Tory to Lab swings must be huge in some parts of the country to make sense of that poll.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited August 2019

    On Topic What poor performance?

    Boris UnBounce

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 30% (+3)
    CON: 29% (+1)
    LDEM: 16% (-3)
    BREX: 15% (-1)
    GRN: 5% (+1)

    via
    @ComRes
    , 26 - 28 Jul
    Chgs. w/ 25 Jul

    Even on that poll Tories still up 1% but Comres had Labour 8% in front of the LDs in the European Parliament elections too and the LDs ended up 7% ahead of Labour
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Bozo looking vaguely sensible on Sky News at Whaley Bridge.

    Looking at something that is about to collapse?

    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1157232208781938688
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Corbyn does lead Labour at the next general election and loses and either stays Labour leader or is replaced by a Corbynista like Pidcock, Long-Bailey or McDonnell then there must be a strong possibility that the LDs will replace Labour as the main party of the centre left by the general election after next.

    The European Parliament elections fired a warning shot across Labour's bows when the LDs beat Labour, the Tories listened to their warning shot when the Brexit Party beat them by picking Boris to replace May, if Labour continue to stick their fingers in their ears and stick with Corbynism they will continue to see swings against them as they did in Brecon last night

    Here's an experience I am sure many of us have had. You join a project half way through. It looks fairly straight forward and it is clear enough what needs to be done. But the people on the project have become obsessed by some issue that while not totally unimportant clearly isn't the major thing that needs to be sorted out. Without knowing the background you are mystified by why it dominates discussion. But nothing you can say will shift the entrenched views of the team members who have been working on it.

    That's how the Tory Party looks from the outside.

    What the hell is so important about the 30th of October? And by Jove's gardener, what on earth makes you think Johnson is the answer?
    Comres today, if Boris delivers Brexit with No Deal the Tories have a 7% lead over Labour, if Boris extends again beyond October 31st the Tories collapse to 3rd behind the Brexit Party and Labour.

    https://twitter.com/tianran/status/1157199736232927232?s=20
    An interesting set of scenarios/polls but what people think this side of those things happening is not necessarily the same thing as what people will end up thinking the other side of some of those things happening. A sort of Heisenberg uncertainty principle of polling.
    Reminds me of the Victoria Wood sketch about a market researcher asking someone whether in the event of a nuclear holocaust they would be likely to buy more or less Hellmann's mayonnaise.
    I assume they said less?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just say that if it wasn’t for a truly brilliant and world class innings by Smith the test match would be all over. As it is England are in a very, very strong position. If they bat until mid afternoon they will be over120 runs ahead which, on that pitch, really should be enough for a decisive position.

    When they're all out for 283 tomorrow and Smith has scored 124 out of Australia's 200-9, we will know who to blame!
    I’d be as worried about Warner. Can’t really see him failing twice. Class player. But 120 will be a lot in a low scoring test.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    One more thing. Do you believe that somebody aged under 18 in 2016 is obliged to accept the “result” of the referendum?

    Yes, just as they are obliged to accept a democratically elected government they were not old enough to vote for

    So they are not allowed to use democratic means to oppose the decisions made by that Government? Why do we have such a thing in our constitution as “the official opposition” if they are not allowed to oppose?
    They can oppose they cannot overthrow as it won a general election mandate until the next general election
    Of course they can overthrow. They just need to win a VONC
    Which they won't if the government has a majority as Leave won a majority
    But you agree that the opposition have the right to test whether that majority still exists by calling a VONC.

    Just like we could test whether there is a public majority for No Deal.
    To have a VONC the Government would to have been appointed to respect the general election result in the first place.

    Just like the majority to Leave would have to have been respected before a referendum could be held to rejoin the EU rather than persist with No Deal
    We did not vote for No Deal. No Deal does not respect the result. It exploits the result for the benefit of the hard right.
    We voted to Leave the EU. No ifs, no buts to Leave
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    Scott_P said:
    If ~30% turns out to be the ceiling, and not the floor, for the Britain Trump led Tory Party will his election be a bigger calamity than Labour electing Corbyn? I think so.
  • Polling companies havent got a scoobie doo if the range is +10 to -1.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,534

    I am puzzled by the Labour surge! I thought they have had a lousy few months. Maybe Boris repels people back to supporting Labour in ways TM did not?
    I wouldn't draw many conclusions from one poll, or indeed one by-election. But I think that at present voting is being driven most by two questions: "Are you for or against Brexit?" and "Do you like Boris Johnson?" The effect is:

    Yes/Yes: Con
    Yes/No: BXP, or tactically Con
    No/Yes: Con or LibDem, depending which matters most to you
    No/No: Lab or LibDem, whichever seems best able to win - and in most seats that is felt to be Lab

    Issues like "What do you think of Corbyn/Swinson?" and "Do you approve of austerity?" have faded almost completely into the background.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    The point of a bounce is it comes back down again.
    Meanwhile the metaphor generating machine has produced again.
    Our leader surveys a long neglected edifice which has been undermined. Vast pressure is building behind threatening to sweep the entirety away, causing untold damage and distress.
    Not much to do but have optimism that a hastily patched together solution can be successful.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217

    On Topic What dire polling?

    Boris UnBounce

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 30% (+3)
    CON: 29% (+1)
    LDEM: 16% (-3)
    BREX: 15% (-1)
    GRN: 5% (+1)

    via
    @ComRes
    , 26 - 28 Jul
    Chgs. w/ 25 Jul

    Ohh Jeremy Corbyn !
  • Polling companies havent got a scoobie doo if the range is +10 to -1.

    ComRes have gone from saying Boris Johnson would lead the Tories to 150 seat plus majority to being 1% behind in the space of a few weeks.

    ComRes does not stand for Comedy Results, honest.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217

    Polling companies havent got a scoobie doo if the range is +10 to -1.

    Imagine the sort of people that bet on this malarkey.
  • NEW THREAD

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    HYUFD mistakenly believes that everyone who voted Leave supports Leave in any form. Deal or No Deal.

    This is of course bollocks, and so undermines the rest of his 'We must No Deal' thesis.

    @HYUFD should review his words about “a war” with Leavers and consider what that means in the context of Northern Ireland.
This discussion has been closed.