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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Continuing uncertainty over a no-deal Brexit sees the pound dr

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  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Oh Dear the Scottish Tories have become as unhinged as HYFUD, :D:D

    Keith Brown and Adam Tomkins

    THE Scottish Tories have been accused of making “complete fools of themselves” after using a six-year-old quote about wifi at railway stations to attack the SNP over independence.
    The SNP said Ruth Davidson’s party was becoming “hysterical”.
    It followed the Scottish Tories issuing a press release attacking SNP depute leader Keith Brown after he denied saying independence was a once-in-a-generation vote.
    He told Sky News: “It wasn’t something I’ve ever said.”

    The Tories then unearthed a quote from Mr Brown before the 2014 referendum in which he said: “The eyes of the world will be on Scotland and we have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to showcase what we have to offer as a modern country.”
    Tory MSP Adam Tomkins said: “Keith Brown needs to get his story straight on another independence referendum.
    “This exposes the deceit that runs right from the top of the SNP down.
    “Before the referendum, they were all happy to say it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.
    “After a convincing defeat, they immediately rowed back, to the point where Keith Brown’s now denying having ever said it at all. Voters will see right through this dishonesty.”
    However, the source the Tories supplied for the quote showed it came from a BBC story in May 2013 about free wi-fi at 25 of Scotland’s busiest railway stations.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    HYUFD said:

    Anna Soubry campaigning for the Lib Dems.

    https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/1156194654473334784

    Looks like the LDs have completed their takeover of CUK, first Chuka, now Anna going yellow
    The Brecon by-election looks like a few people using a gateway drug before they transition to the hard stuff, ie actually just becoming LDs.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited July 2019
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    Fine if that's your choice, it's not mine
    +1 - we holidayed in Pembrokeshire in "summer" 2017 Mrs Eek's comment was never again in the UK - the risk of bad weather is too great..
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Most of them look they have been blitzed
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Pb-ers complain about the length of Cyclefree's headers, yet here is the House of Lords taking seven bullet-pointed paragraphs just to ask Is David Cameron a cock?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited July 2019
    eek said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    Fine if that's your choice, it's not mine
    +1 - we holiday in Pembrokeshire in "summer" 2017 Mrs Eek's comment was never again in the UK - the risk of bad weather is too great..
    Also to add that the Dales isn't much better. Mrs Eek is currently stuck in Leyburn as the eastern routes out of the Dales are closed due to flash floods...
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    It really has become about any chance to bash the UK for a lot of people here. I wish you a speedy recovery.

    There is a difference between bashing the UK and bashing what the Brexiteers are doing to the Uk
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Are the Americans debating again tonight or is it next week?
  • PloppikinsPloppikins Posts: 126
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    I can't tell if this is satire. Poe's law in motion.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Jaguars are cars for old men.

    German vehicles for me all the way, though I did have a brief fling with an Italian that I gave me fond memories.

    Mercedes are for old blokes too, BMWs are for sales rep twats and Audi are for people who dont realise they;re diving a VW Polo
    All luxury brand cars are just people spending on image, completely fine, but deluded if they think it is to do with quality that justifies the price differentials.
    Audi drivers are the worst people on the road. Actually just the worst human beings full stop.
    That is a bit harsh, and here was me thinking I was a considerate driver.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    kle4 said:

    Can someone explain why it is that we agreed a deal with the EU BEFORE we had agreed what it was the UK Parlaiment would accept.? Would it not have been better for Parliament to agree the terms on which we wanted to leave the EU before heading off to Brussels to negotiate. That way we could have delayed triggering Article 50 until that point and avoided the need for all this mess.

    I doubt the EU would have opened discussions before A50 was triggered, and in any case a lot of the arguments are pretty manufactured as much of the logic against the WA was really either against any deal (for leavers) or against leaving at all (for remainers) which is why we have slightly more honesty now the focus is more on no deal or revoke(via referendum or not).

    But it was all done pretty badly.
    For some reason, May decided that the only way of proceeding was for her (and her small team) to do everything. No consultation with other parties. No consultation with her own party. I suppose she thought there wasn't enough time for debates, and just assumed that her own side would vote for the WA. But there was some hubris.

    If there'd been some sort of Brexit Commission, with a cross-party negotiating team, there would've been huge rows but we would be out of the EU by now, under some Norway-style arrangement.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    Jaguars are cars for old men.

    German vehicles for me all the way, though I did have a brief fling with an Italian that I gave me fond memories.

    Mercedes are for old blokes too, BMWs are for sales rep twats and Audi are for people who dont realise they;re diving a VW Polo
    Mine is a big Polo Alan
    you are single handedly polluting scotland malc
    Mine is extremely efficient Alan, just had to add 8L of Adblue the other day, almost Chanel No 5 coming out of the exhaust. Would not be surprised if it is aiding carbon reduction figures.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Interesting idea.

    "UK’s big banks told to publish ‘living wills’ from 2021"

    https://www.ft.com/content/3e7a87cc-b2aa-11e9-bec9-fdcab53d6959
  • XtrainXtrain Posts: 341
    malcolmg said:

    Jaguars are cars for old men.

    German vehicles for me all the way, though I did have a brief fling with an Italian that I gave me fond memories.

    Mercedes are for old blokes too, BMWs are for sales rep twats and Audi are for people who dont realise they;re diving a VW Polo
    All luxury brand cars are just people spending on image, completely fine, but deluded if they think it is to do with quality that justifies the price differentials.
    Audi drivers are the worst people on the road. Actually just the worst human beings full stop.
    That is a bit harsh, and here was me thinking I was a considerate driver.
    Since moving out of London and driving almost every day I've noticed that Audi drivers are the most aggresive.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    Dadge said:

    If there'd been some sort of Brexit Commission, with a cross-party negotiating team, there would've been huge rows but we would be out of the EU by now, under some Norway-style arrangement.

    With a customs border in the Irish Sea or the whole UK in the customs union? Do you really think it would have been possible to get a consensus to proceed with a form of Brexit that negated all the things it was sold as delivering?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    Dadge said:

    If there'd been some sort of Brexit Commission, with a cross-party negotiating team, there would've been huge rows but we would be out of the EU by now, under some Norway-style arrangement.

    With a customs border in the Irish Sea or the whole UK in the customs union? Do you really think it would have been possible to get a consensus to proceed with a form of Brexit that negated all the things it was sold as delivering?
    A consensus for something would have occurred - so yes we would be out.

    Because May decided to do things her way there was zero incentive for anyone else to help push her deal through Parliament...
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Appreciate I'm very late to the party, but the idea that a weak pound is going to put pressure on Boris is incredibly one eyed.

    The entire point of his strategy is to convince people he really means to no deal, so the EU reconsider their position under some actual jeopardy rather than assuming we'll take whatever is on offer.

    A weak pound means it's working, at least for the markets (which is a different thing to saying it's the right strategy).
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Xtrain said:

    malcolmg said:

    Jaguars are cars for old men.

    German vehicles for me all the way, though I did have a brief fling with an Italian that I gave me fond memories.

    Mercedes are for old blokes too, BMWs are for sales rep twats and Audi are for people who dont realise they;re diving a VW Polo
    All luxury brand cars are just people spending on image, completely fine, but deluded if they think it is to do with quality that justifies the price differentials.
    Audi drivers are the worst people on the road. Actually just the worst human beings full stop.
    That is a bit harsh, and here was me thinking I was a considerate driver.
    Since moving out of London and driving almost every day I've noticed that Audi drivers are the most aggresive.
    I am the exception to the rule
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847
    Trump on wine.

    "I’ve always said American wine is better than French wine!"

    When pointed out that he is teetotal so it is a strange prefence:

    “I just like the way they look. American wines are great.”
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    maaarsh said:

    Appreciate I'm very late to the party, but the idea that a weak pound is going to put pressure on Boris is incredibly one eyed.

    The entire point of his strategy is to convince people he really means to no deal, so the EU reconsider their position under some actual jeopardy rather than assuming we'll take whatever is on offer.

    A weak pound means it's working, at least for the markets (which is a different thing to saying it's the right strategy).

    And given that the EU regard No Deal as the equivalent of trying to save money on a heart transplant by doing it yourself - exactly how does Boris's self inflicted stupidity get the EU back at the table...
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    malcolmg said:

    Xtrain said:

    malcolmg said:

    Jaguars are cars for old men.

    German vehicles for me all the way, though I did have a brief fling with an Italian that I gave me fond memories.

    Mercedes are for old blokes too, BMWs are for sales rep twats and Audi are for people who dont realise they;re diving a VW Polo
    All luxury brand cars are just people spending on image, completely fine, but deluded if they think it is to do with quality that justifies the price differentials.
    Audi drivers are the worst people on the road. Actually just the worst human beings full stop.
    That is a bit harsh, and here was me thinking I was a considerate driver.
    Since moving out of London and driving almost every day I've noticed that Audi drivers are the most aggresive.
    I am the exception to the rule
    And thus we can conclude you don't drive an Audi.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    nico67 said:

    The pound could hit just one Euro or even less and Leavers will just peddle the same guff . Just holiday in the UK.

    So not only are we to lose freedom of movement we’re also now told to just suck it up and be forced to holiday in the UK.

    Leavers have an answer for everything in their desperate attempts to keep polishing the Brexit turd!

    The pound could hit 20 cents and it wouldn't matter if inflation was low and real wages were rising.

    It wouldn't happen but that's another matter.
    How can a collapsing currency and wage inflation coexist with low inflation?
    You tell me.

    We have low inflation, we have wage inflation and you allege we have a collapsing currency. Check, check and check. So what's going on?
    Do I? I was referring to your scenario of the pound hitting 20 cents.
    Sterling used to be $5 now we are talking about parity. That is where the 80% came from.
    To be fair, Sterling has spent 80% of the time since 1992 in a range between $1.40 and $1.70. It was only just before the GFC when it climbed higher than that, and either immediately post the GFC, or after the EU referendum when it was lower.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Appreciate I'm very late to the party, but the idea that a weak pound is going to put pressure on Boris is incredibly one eyed.

    The entire point of his strategy is to convince people he really means to no deal, so the EU reconsider their position under some actual jeopardy rather than assuming we'll take whatever is on offer.

    A weak pound means it's working, at least for the markets (which is a different thing to saying it's the right strategy).

    And given that the EU regard No Deal as the equivalent of trying to save money on a heart transplant by doing it yourself - exactly how does Boris's self inflicted stupidity get the EU back at the table...
    Because the Irish view No Deal as drunken amateur Brits doing a heart transplant on them.

    The backstop was meant to prevent a possible future no deal, not cause an immediate one. If it is bringing about what it was designed to prevent it has failed.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Appreciate I'm very late to the party, but the idea that a weak pound is going to put pressure on Boris is incredibly one eyed.

    The entire point of his strategy is to convince people he really means to no deal, so the EU reconsider their position under some actual jeopardy rather than assuming we'll take whatever is on offer.

    A weak pound means it's working, at least for the markets (which is a different thing to saying it's the right strategy).

    And given that the EU regard No Deal as the equivalent of trying to save money on a heart transplant by doing it yourself - exactly how does Boris's self inflicted stupidity get the EU back at the table...
    Because it would be pretty shit for them too. As I said - not defending the strategy, just pointing out that this threader rather missed that this is a perfectly deliberate outcome.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    malcolmg said:

    Xtrain said:

    malcolmg said:

    Jaguars are cars for old men.

    German vehicles for me all the way, though I did have a brief fling with an Italian that I gave me fond memories.

    Mercedes are for old blokes too, BMWs are for sales rep twats and Audi are for people who dont realise they;re diving a VW Polo
    All luxury brand cars are just people spending on image, completely fine, but deluded if they think it is to do with quality that justifies the price differentials.
    Audi drivers are the worst people on the road. Actually just the worst human beings full stop.
    That is a bit harsh, and here was me thinking I was a considerate driver.
    Since moving out of London and driving almost every day I've noticed that Audi drivers are the most aggresive.
    I am the exception to the rule
    You must be Old School Malc. When I was young Audi drivers were very different from the arseholes driving BMWs. Now they are just as bad.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005

    Good afternoon, Miss JGP.

    Mr. T, bitching about a 900 year old grudge is ridiculous. By that metric, I could whine about the Normans for genocide against Yorkshire.

    I wasn't aware that the the Norman harrying went on much past the C11th, or that the Normans were around for many of the subsequent centuries, but I yield to your superior historical knowledge.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Appreciate I'm very late to the party, but the idea that a weak pound is going to put pressure on Boris is incredibly one eyed.

    The entire point of his strategy is to convince people he really means to no deal, so the EU reconsider their position under some actual jeopardy rather than assuming we'll take whatever is on offer.

    A weak pound means it's working, at least for the markets (which is a different thing to saying it's the right strategy).

    And given that the EU regard No Deal as the equivalent of trying to save money on a heart transplant by doing it yourself - exactly how does Boris's self inflicted stupidity get the EU back at the table...
    Because it would be pretty shit for them too. As I said - not defending the strategy, just pointing out that this threader rather missed that this is a perfectly deliberate outcome.
    But no matter how bad it is for them - we will be in a worse position...
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    It's even bloody worse when you live here, mate.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    eek said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    Fine if that's your choice, it's not mine
    +1 - we holidayed in Pembrokeshire in "summer" 2017 Mrs Eek's comment was never again in the UK - the risk of bad weather is too great..
    I had a fortnight in Wales once and it only rained twice, once for seven days and once for a week.

    I can recommend the Isle of Wight though. The ferry allows you to imagine you are abroad, and the time travel element is fun. It takes you back a couple of decades...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847
    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Appreciate I'm very late to the party, but the idea that a weak pound is going to put pressure on Boris is incredibly one eyed.

    The entire point of his strategy is to convince people he really means to no deal, so the EU reconsider their position under some actual jeopardy rather than assuming we'll take whatever is on offer.

    A weak pound means it's working, at least for the markets (which is a different thing to saying it's the right strategy).

    And given that the EU regard No Deal as the equivalent of trying to save money on a heart transplant by doing it yourself - exactly how does Boris's self inflicted stupidity get the EU back at the table...
    His strategy does make some sense if he can pass a standstill transition through the ERG and therefore parliament. As far as I can tell the only downside for the EU is they lose some of their sequencing advantage but in return would avoid no deal, give stability over the next couple of years, get their cash, not to mention the opportunity to negotiate a FTA with a bunch of numpties.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "The Lord Mayor of Liverpool has resigned after sharing a racist video comparing a black person to a monkey.

    Councillor Peter Brennan, who represents Labour in Old Swan, stood down from the ceremonial role following complaints of "offensive material" posted in a WhatsApp group on Monday."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-49162644
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Xtrain said:

    malcolmg said:

    Jaguars are cars for old men.

    German vehicles for me all the way, though I did have a brief fling with an Italian that I gave me fond memories.

    Mercedes are for old blokes too, BMWs are for sales rep twats and Audi are for people who dont realise they;re diving a VW Polo
    All luxury brand cars are just people spending on image, completely fine, but deluded if they think it is to do with quality that justifies the price differentials.
    Audi drivers are the worst people on the road. Actually just the worst human beings full stop.
    That is a bit harsh, and here was me thinking I was a considerate driver.
    Since moving out of London and driving almost every day I've noticed that Audi drivers are the most aggresive.
    I am the exception to the rule
    And thus we can conclude you don't drive an Audi.
    Afraid you cannot
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    OllyT said:

    It really has become about any chance to bash the UK for a lot of people here. I wish you a speedy recovery.

    There is a difference between bashing the UK and bashing what the Brexiteers are doing to the Uk
    Not here there isn't. It's pitiable what certain peoples' posting personas have become. Can't be mentally healthy for one thing.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    edited July 2019

    malcolmg said:

    Xtrain said:

    malcolmg said:

    Jaguars are cars for old men.

    German vehicles for me all the way, though I did have a brief fling with an Italian that I gave me fond memories.

    Mercedes are for old blokes too, BMWs are for sales rep twats and Audi are for people who dont realise they;re diving a VW Polo
    All luxury brand cars are just people spending on image, completely fine, but deluded if they think it is to do with quality that justifies the price differentials.
    Audi drivers are the worst people on the road. Actually just the worst human beings full stop.
    That is a bit harsh, and here was me thinking I was a considerate driver.
    Since moving out of London and driving almost every day I've noticed that Audi drivers are the most aggresive.
    I am the exception to the rule
    You must be Old School Malc. When I was young Audi drivers were very different from the arseholes driving BMWs. Now they are just as bad.
    Old codger Sandy , though I can still put the foot down now and again but prefer gliding along nowadays. Have to say the DSG sports auto box is the smoothest I have ever had.
    PS , have to admit I previously had X3's but fancied a change.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    Dadge said:

    If there'd been some sort of Brexit Commission, with a cross-party negotiating team, there would've been huge rows but we would be out of the EU by now, under some Norway-style arrangement.

    With a customs border in the Irish Sea or the whole UK in the customs union? Do you really think it would have been possible to get a consensus to proceed with a form of Brexit that negated all the things it was sold as delivering?
    Either. Remember that Labour are only voting against the WA for political reasons. If Labour had been part of the Brexit team, most Labour MPs would've voted for the WA. MPs would say that they hadn't "negated all the things Brexit was sold as delivering" because this was only the WA, not the final Deal.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited July 2019
    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Southend, Bournemouth, Brighton, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    eek said:

    Dadge said:

    If there'd been some sort of Brexit Commission, with a cross-party negotiating team, there would've been huge rows but we would be out of the EU by now, under some Norway-style arrangement.

    With a customs border in the Irish Sea or the whole UK in the customs union? Do you really think it would have been possible to get a consensus to proceed with a form of Brexit that negated all the things it was sold as delivering?
    A consensus for something would have occurred - so yes we would be out.
    How? The something you are proposing was bitterly opposed by Boris Johnson all along.

    It's very hard to get a truly democratic country to agree to commit self-harm, in whatever form that takes. No consensus for a deliverable form of Brexit was possible.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Dadge said:

    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Boris will campaign like May in a general election, flitting between safe spaces, and avoiding the press and debates.
    Boris did debates in the leadership election and referendum and has been campaigning across the UK since. He is a far better campaigner than May but it was the dementia tax that cost May her majority, which Boris opposed, not stage managed appearances
    It was a combination of factors. Labour support went up by 2% a week for six weeks. May's poor performance was the big issue in two of those weeks.
    The biggest bounces in Labour support came from Corbyn's manifesto giveaway and May's disastrous dementia tax announcement coupled with scrapping free school meals
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Thanks to Brexit, British people’s horizons are literally shrinking. And Leavers are so indoctrinated, they celebrate that.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    Have you seen the price of a holiday cottage in the Lakes let alone a decent hotel?
    Hint my last weekend there cost £400 and that was my third choice hotel as we booked at little notice and the others were full.
    And they are already fully booked with the Japanese / Europeans as we discovered on a day trip to the Derwent pencil museum at the weekend....
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    You've clearly never been to Margate then.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    Some well buy their best and others far too far to travel to, it will never catch on.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    Thanks to Brexit, British people’s horizons are literally shrinking. And Leavers are so indoctrinated, they celebrate that.

    Sat, once again, in hotel room in Sofia I would actually like my horizons to shrink a bit. A week at home would do me the world of good (and make Sofia look good again)..
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    Fine if that's your choice, it's not mine
    +1 - we holidayed in Pembrokeshire in "summer" 2017 Mrs Eek's comment was never again in the UK - the risk of bad weather is too great..
    I had a fortnight in Wales once and it only rained twice, once for seven days and once for a week.

    I can recommend the Isle of Wight though. The ferry allows you to imagine you are abroad, and the time travel element is fun. It takes you back a couple of decades...
    The island is a bit under-rated. In many ways it's England in microcosm.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    HYUFD said:

    Dadge said:

    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Boris will campaign like May in a general election, flitting between safe spaces, and avoiding the press and debates.
    Boris did debates in the leadership election and referendum and has been campaigning across the UK since. He is a far better campaigner than May but it was the dementia tax that cost May her majority, which Boris opposed, not stage managed appearances
    It was a combination of factors. Labour support went up by 2% a week for six weeks. May's poor performance was the big issue in two of those weeks.
    The biggest bounces in Labour support came from Corbyn's manifesto giveaway and May's disastrous dementia tax announcement coupled with scrapping free school meals
    Do you approve of Boris copying the giveaway ?

    He’s too accomplished a bullshitter to put it in writing, but the manifesto is out there.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kle4 said:

    BTW - This will be the tweet that will go atop all future Raab related and No Deal threads

    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1155769740125712391

    In fact any flexibility we may have shown is now countered as we are seeking to be less flexible.
    Raab is entirely correct there.

    We are saying we are ready to talk, they are saying they're not, so we are the ones being more flexible.

    We are saying the undemocratic backstop has to go [too right too!] but not being restrictive atm as to what replaces it. The EU are saying they insist the undemocratic backstop must stay, so they are being inflexible.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    Have you seen the price of a holiday cottage in the Lakes let alone a decent hotel?
    Hint my last weekend there cost £400 and that was my third choice hotel as we booked at little notice and the others were full.
    And they are already fully booked with the Japanese / Europeans as we discovered on a day trip to the Derwent pencil museum at the weekend....
    Scotland is the same, cheaper to have a week abroad than a weekend at home. UK is a rip off.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    rcs1000 said:

    nico67 said:

    The pound could hit just one Euro or even less and Leavers will just peddle the same guff . Just holiday in the UK.

    So not only are we to lose freedom of movement we’re also now told to just suck it up and be forced to holiday in the UK.

    Leavers have an answer for everything in their desperate attempts to keep polishing the Brexit turd!

    The pound could hit 20 cents and it wouldn't matter if inflation was low and real wages were rising.

    It wouldn't happen but that's another matter.
    How can a collapsing currency and wage inflation coexist with low inflation?
    You tell me.

    We have low inflation, we have wage inflation and you allege we have a collapsing currency. Check, check and check. So what's going on?
    Do I? I was referring to your scenario of the pound hitting 20 cents.
    Sterling used to be $5 now we are talking about parity. That is where the 80% came from.
    To be fair, Sterling has spent 80% of the time since 1992 in a range between $1.40 and $1.70. It was only just before the GFC when it climbed higher than that, and either immediately post the GFC, or after the EU referendum when it was lower.
    If you have 15% interest rates funded by printing money your currency will devalue. If you bail out national industry, funded by printing money, much the same. If your industrial policy actually eliminates productive industry then your currency will decline too.

    Interventionist government policy may be good when you can afford it. We've not been able to afford such a thing for a very long time.

    FX rates are precisely the long term judgement of governments by others, however they spend most of their time correcting for the actions of previous governments because the economists are much like sooth-sayers, but without the charm.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    You've clearly never been to Margate then.
    Blackpool is not very enticing either nowadays
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    eek said:

    Dadge said:

    If there'd been some sort of Brexit Commission, with a cross-party negotiating team, there would've been huge rows but we would be out of the EU by now, under some Norway-style arrangement.

    With a customs border in the Irish Sea or the whole UK in the customs union? Do you really think it would have been possible to get a consensus to proceed with a form of Brexit that negated all the things it was sold as delivering?
    A consensus for something would have occurred - so yes we would be out.
    How? The something you are proposing was bitterly opposed by Boris Johnson all along.

    It's very hard to get a truly democratic country to agree to commit self-harm, in whatever form that takes. No consensus for a deliverable form of Brexit was possible.
    Not a clue but if Labour and the Tories both owned the policy at least some large proportion of both parties would have owned the problem..
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    OllyT said:

    It really has become about any chance to bash the UK for a lot of people here. I wish you a speedy recovery.

    There is a difference between bashing the UK and bashing what the Brexiteers are doing to the Uk
    Not here there isn't. It's pitiable what certain peoples' posting personas have become. Can't be mentally healthy for one thing.
    Despair at the downward slide of the country and its place in the world is the sign of a true patriot. Indeed nothing is more characteristic of a British patriot than complaining that the place is going to the dogs.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Xtrain said:

    malcolmg said:

    Jaguars are cars for old men.

    German vehicles for me all the way, though I did have a brief fling with an Italian that I gave me fond memories.

    Mercedes are for old blokes too, BMWs are for sales rep twats and Audi are for people who dont realise they;re diving a VW Polo
    All luxury brand cars are just people spending on image, completely fine, but deluded if they think it is to do with quality that justifies the price differentials.
    Audi drivers are the worst people on the road. Actually just the worst human beings full stop.
    That is a bit harsh, and here was me thinking I was a considerate driver.
    Since moving out of London and driving almost every day I've noticed that Audi drivers are the most aggresive.
    I am the exception to the rule
    And thus we can conclude you don't drive an Audi.
    Afraid you cannot
    Ah you notorious softy, you!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dadge said:

    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Boris will campaign like May in a general election, flitting between safe spaces, and avoiding the press and debates.
    Boris did debates in the leadership election and referendum and has been campaigning across the UK since. He is a far better campaigner than May but it was the dementia tax that cost May her majority, which Boris opposed, not stage managed appearances
    It was a combination of factors. Labour support went up by 2% a week for six weeks. May's poor performance was the big issue in two of those weeks.
    The biggest bounces in Labour support came from Corbyn's manifesto giveaway and May's disastrous dementia tax announcement coupled with scrapping free school meals
    Do you approve of Boris copying the giveaway ?

    He’s too accomplished a bullshitter to put it in writing, but the manifesto is out there.
    If Boris blows the budget then no I don't approve it. If he picks a few targetted areas to raise spending on, like governments always do, then that is responsible.

    People are acting with mock horror that Boris has priorities. As if Osborne, Cameron, May and Hammond didn't have priorities too. The difference with Corbyn is he doesn't have priorities, he wants to spend money on everything.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    eek said:

    Thanks to Brexit, British people’s horizons are literally shrinking. And Leavers are so indoctrinated, they celebrate that.

    Sat, once again, in hotel room in Sofia I would actually like my horizons to shrink a bit. A week at home would do me the world of good (and make Sofia look good again)..
    Sofia is less than exotic for sure
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    They are all a bloody nightmare already, nowhere to park, traffic queues, English nat brits on holiday, or so many Japanese tourists no room to walk on the pavement for god sake open your eyes and look at the reality of what we are facing.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    Have you seen the price of a holiday cottage in the Lakes let alone a decent hotel?
    Hint my last weekend there cost £400 and that was my third choice hotel as we booked at little notice and the others were full.
    And they are already fully booked with the Japanese / Europeans as we discovered on a day trip to the Derwent pencil museum at the weekend....
    Scotland is the same, cheaper to have a week abroad than a weekend at home. UK is a rip off.
    Yep for reference I'm off to the Amstel Intercontinental next March for a long weekend. That's £600 including flights for 2...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    kle4 said:

    BTW - This will be the tweet that will go atop all future Raab related and No Deal threads

    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1155769740125712391

    In fact any flexibility we may have shown is now countered as we are seeking to be less flexible.
    Raab is entirely correct there.

    We are saying we are ready to talk, they are saying they're not, so we are the ones being more flexible.

    We are saying the undemocratic backstop has to go [too right too!] but not being restrictive atm as to what replaces it. The EU are saying they insist the undemocratic backstop must stay, so they are being inflexible.
    They said in April that they were not able to talk since the EU is in transition until November 1st.

    Given that why should we expect them to be in a position to talk.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    malcolmg said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    You've clearly never been to Margate then.
    Blackpool is not very enticing either nowadays
    Skegness... The horror! The horror! *

    *Though Gibraltar point a couple of miles away is beautiful, and deserted.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Xtrain said:

    malcolmg said:

    Jaguars are cars for old men.

    German vehicles for me all the way, though I did have a brief fling with an Italian that I gave me fond memories.

    Mercedes are for old blokes too, BMWs are for sales rep twats and Audi are for people who dont realise they;re diving a VW Polo
    All luxury brand cars are just people spending on image, completely fine, but deluded if they think it is to do with quality that justifies the price differentials.
    Audi drivers are the worst people on the road. Actually just the worst human beings full stop.
    That is a bit harsh, and here was me thinking I was a considerate driver.
    Since moving out of London and driving almost every day I've noticed that Audi drivers are the most aggresive.
    I am the exception to the rule
    And thus we can conclude you don't drive an Audi.
    Afraid you cannot
    Ah you notorious softy, you!
    Guilty, I go for comfort nowadays
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Thanks to Brexit, British people’s horizons are literally shrinking. And Leavers are so indoctrinated, they celebrate that.

    My family’s Irish passports are the best investments I’ve made recently.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    Have you seen the price of a holiday cottage in the Lakes let alone a decent hotel?
    Hint my last weekend there cost £400 and that was my third choice hotel as we booked at little notice and the others were full.
    And they are already fully booked with the Japanese / Europeans as we discovered on a day trip to the Derwent pencil museum at the weekend....
    Which will be exacerbated by the falling pound.
    Bottom line, there is no escaping the downgrading of your country’s relative value.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    Have you seen the price of a holiday cottage in the Lakes let alone a decent hotel?
    Hint my last weekend there cost £400 and that was my third choice hotel as we booked at little notice and the others were full.
    And they are already fully booked with the Japanese / Europeans as we discovered on a day trip to the Derwent pencil museum at the weekend....
    Try Skegness or Margate or Blackpool or Southend then if you want a bargain.

    The Lakes will likely be even more full with foreign tourists due to the cheap £
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    Have you seen the price of a holiday cottage in the Lakes let alone a decent hotel?
    Hint my last weekend there cost £400 and that was my third choice hotel as we booked at little notice and the others were full.
    And they are already fully booked with the Japanese / Europeans as we discovered on a day trip to the Derwent pencil museum at the weekend....
    Try Skegness or Margate or Blackpool or Southend then if you want a bargain.

    The Lakes will likely be even more full with foreign tourists due to the cheap £
    Rather poke my eyes out with a sharp stick
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Thanks to Brexit, British people’s horizons are literally shrinking. And Leavers are so indoctrinated, they celebrate that.

    Their leaders are insulated from the consequences. Indeed many will be relative beneficiaries.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dadge said:

    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Boris will campaign like May in a general election, flitting between safe spaces, and avoiding the press and debates.
    Boris did debates in the leadership election and referendum and has been campaigning across the UK since. He is a far better campaigner than May but it was the dementia tax that cost May her majority, which Boris opposed, not stage managed appearances
    It was a combination of factors. Labour support went up by 2% a week for six weeks. May's poor performance was the big issue in two of those weeks.
    The biggest bounces in Labour support came from Corbyn's manifesto giveaway and May's disastrous dementia tax announcement coupled with scrapping free school meals
    Do you approve of Boris copying the giveaway ?

    He’s too accomplished a bullshitter to put it in writing, but the manifesto is out there.
    Boris will outdo the giveaway by offering tax cuts too
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    malcolmg said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    You've clearly never been to Margate then.
    Blackpool is not very enticing either nowadays
    Just about tolerable during the illuminations.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Dadge said:

    If there'd been some sort of Brexit Commission, with a cross-party negotiating team, there would've been huge rows but we would be out of the EU by now, under some Norway-style arrangement.

    With a customs border in the Irish Sea or the whole UK in the customs union? Do you really think it would have been possible to get a consensus to proceed with a form of Brexit that negated all the things it was sold as delivering?
    A consensus for something would have occurred - so yes we would be out.
    How? The something you are proposing was bitterly opposed by Boris Johnson all along.

    It's very hard to get a truly democratic country to agree to commit self-harm, in whatever form that takes. No consensus for a deliverable form of Brexit was possible.
    Not a clue but if Labour and the Tories both owned the policy at least some large proportion of both parties would have owned the problem..
    Yes and if the sun rose in the west . . .

    Corbyn was never in a million years going to agree to own any "Tory Brexit". Even when May proposed a Brexit almost identical to what he was calling for.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    Have you seen the price of a holiday cottage in the Lakes let alone a decent hotel?
    Hint my last weekend there cost £400 and that was my third choice hotel as we booked at little notice and the others were full.
    And they are already fully booked with the Japanese / Europeans as we discovered on a day trip to the Derwent pencil museum at the weekend....
    Try Skegness or Margate or Blackpool or Southend then if you want a bargain.

    The Lakes will likely be even more full with foreign tourists due to the cheap £
    The Leave message - learn to be content with crap, as you won’t be able to afford anything else.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    Have you seen the price of a holiday cottage in the Lakes let alone a decent hotel?
    Hint my last weekend there cost £400 and that was my third choice hotel as we booked at little notice and the others were full.
    And they are already fully booked with the Japanese / Europeans as we discovered on a day trip to the Derwent pencil museum at the weekend....
    Try Skegness or Margate or Blackpool or Southend then if you want a bargain.

    The Lakes will likely be even more full with foreign tourists due to the cheap £
    Rather poke my eyes out with a sharp stick
    The Highlands and Borders, Edinburgh and Aberdeen, even Glasgow are included too
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eek said:

    kle4 said:

    BTW - This will be the tweet that will go atop all future Raab related and No Deal threads

    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1155769740125712391

    In fact any flexibility we may have shown is now countered as we are seeking to be less flexible.
    Raab is entirely correct there.

    We are saying we are ready to talk, they are saying they're not, so we are the ones being more flexible.

    We are saying the undemocratic backstop has to go [too right too!] but not being restrictive atm as to what replaces it. The EU are saying they insist the undemocratic backstop must stay, so they are being inflexible.
    They said in April that they were not able to talk since the EU is in transition until November 1st.

    Given that why should we expect them to be in a position to talk.
    2 reasons.

    1: Barnier has said he is available for talks.
    2: They chose the 31 October date.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dadge said:

    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Boris will campaign like May in a general election, flitting between safe spaces, and avoiding the press and debates.
    Boris did debates in the leadership election and referendum and has been campaigning across the UK since. He is a far better campaigner than May but it was the dementia tax that cost May her majority, which Boris opposed, not stage managed appearances
    It was a combination of factors. Labour support went up by 2% a week for six weeks. May's poor performance was the big issue in two of those weeks.
    The biggest bounces in Labour support came from Corbyn's manifesto giveaway and May's disastrous dementia tax announcement coupled with scrapping free school meals
    Do you approve of Boris copying the giveaway ?

    He’s too accomplished a bullshitter to put it in writing, but the manifesto is out there.
    Boris will outdo the giveaway by offering tax cuts too
    No doubt.
    Incontinence is his middle name.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    Have you seen the price of a holiday cottage in the Lakes let alone a decent hotel?
    Hint my last weekend there cost £400 and that was my third choice hotel as we booked at little notice and the others were full.
    And they are already fully booked with the Japanese / Europeans as we discovered on a day trip to the Derwent pencil museum at the weekend....
    Try Skegness or Margate or Blackpool or Southend then if you want a bargain.

    The Lakes will likely be even more full with foreign tourists due to the cheap £
    Rather poke my eyes out with a sharp stick
    The Highlands and Borders, Edinburgh and Aberdeen, even Glasgow are included too
    Yes but once again expensive, cheaper going abroad than going to Edinburgh
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited July 2019
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    Have you seen the price of a holiday cottage in the Lakes let alone a decent hotel?
    Hint my last weekend there cost £400 and that was my third choice hotel as we booked at little notice and the others were full.
    And they are already fully booked with the Japanese / Europeans as we discovered on a day trip to the Derwent pencil museum at the weekend....
    Try Skegness or Margate or Blackpool or Southend then if you want a bargain.

    The Lakes will likely be even more full with foreign tourists due to the cheap £
    Wasn't that my point - the price of somewhere nice won't be cheaper as the market price will be set by bargain hunting foreign tourists. Not that it bothers me as I can easily afford it - although New York in the week before 31st October doesn't look like my best holiday plan ever...
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780

    Thanks to Brexit, British people’s horizons are literally shrinking. And Leavers are so indoctrinated, they celebrate that.

    "British people’s horizons are literally shrinking."

    The Earth is getting smaller? Wow! If only we'd known.

    The people of the UK, or anywhere else for that matter, are not going to be constrained by stupid politics. I understand what you're saying, and I even have a degree of sympathy for it - perhaps we have to work harder to discover our big family, but discover we will.

    Of course you're right to worry about all sorts of things like freedom of opportunity, but there's not a chance that small impediments obstruct adventure.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490

    eek said:

    Dadge said:

    If there'd been some sort of Brexit Commission, with a cross-party negotiating team, there would've been huge rows but we would be out of the EU by now, under some Norway-style arrangement.

    With a customs border in the Irish Sea or the whole UK in the customs union? Do you really think it would have been possible to get a consensus to proceed with a form of Brexit that negated all the things it was sold as delivering?
    A consensus for something would have occurred - so yes we would be out.
    How? The something you are proposing was bitterly opposed by Boris Johnson all along.

    It's very hard to get a truly democratic country to agree to commit self-harm, in whatever form that takes. No consensus for a deliverable form of Brexit was possible.
    I have decided the focus on 'Brexit' is where the problem has been really. Like a dentist appointment. The destination is having good teeth. The process is much more daunting then the outcome.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    rpjs said:

    malcolmg said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    You've clearly never been to Margate then.
    Blackpool is not very enticing either nowadays
    Just about tolerable during the illuminations.
    For a drive along the illuminations - otherwise escape ASAP.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dadge said:

    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Boris will campaign like May in a general election, flitting between safe spaces, and avoiding the press and debates.
    Boris did debates in the leadership election and referendum and has been campaigning across the UK since. He is a far better campaigner than May but it was the dementia tax that cost May her majority, which Boris opposed, not stage managed appearances
    It was a combination of factors. Labour support went up by 2% a week for six weeks. May's poor performance was the big issue in two of those weeks.
    The biggest bounces in Labour support came from Corbyn's manifesto giveaway and May's disastrous dementia tax announcement coupled with scrapping free school meals
    Do you approve of Boris copying the giveaway ?

    He’s too accomplished a bullshitter to put it in writing, but the manifesto is out there.
    If Boris blows the budget then no I don't approve it. If he picks a few targetted areas to raise spending on, like governments always do, then that is responsible.

    People are acting with mock horror that Boris has priorities. As if Osborne, Cameron, May and Hammond didn't have priorities too. The difference with Corbyn is he doesn't have priorities, he wants to spend money on everything.
    Which are ?
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Appreciate I'm very late to the party, but the idea that a weak pound is going to put pressure on Boris is incredibly one eyed.

    The entire point of his strategy is to convince people he really means to no deal, so the EU reconsider their position under some actual jeopardy rather than assuming we'll take whatever is on offer.

    A weak pound means it's working, at least for the markets (which is a different thing to saying it's the right strategy).

    And given that the EU regard No Deal as the equivalent of trying to save money on a heart transplant by doing it yourself - exactly how does Boris's self inflicted stupidity get the EU back at the table...
    Because it would be pretty shit for them too. As I said - not defending the strategy, just pointing out that this threader rather missed that this is a perfectly deliberate outcome.
    But no matter how bad it is for them - we will be in a worse position...
    And if we're crazy enough to do that, that stops it being bad for them how?

    Ultimately the EU position is basically crazy. The backstop supposedly exists to prevent adverse outcomes if there's no deal at the end of a 2 year standstill period. And they're so determined to defend this that they're willing to cause no deal right now?

    It's a game of chicken and the falling pound is a sign of a success for Boris in getting some people to believe he means what he says.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dadge said:

    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Boris will campaign like May in a general election, flitting between safe spaces, and avoiding the press and debates.
    Boris did debates in the leadership election and referendum and has been campaigning across the UK since. He is a far better campaigner than May but it was the dementia tax that cost May her majority, which Boris opposed, not stage managed appearances
    It was a combination of factors. Labour support went up by 2% a week for six weeks. May's poor performance was the big issue in two of those weeks.
    The biggest bounces in Labour support came from Corbyn's manifesto giveaway and May's disastrous dementia tax announcement coupled with scrapping free school meals
    Do you approve of Boris copying the giveaway ?

    He’s too accomplished a bullshitter to put it in writing, but the manifesto is out there.
    If Boris blows the budget then no I don't approve it. If he picks a few targetted areas to raise spending on, like governments always do, then that is responsible.

    People are acting with mock horror that Boris has priorities. As if Osborne, Cameron, May and Hammond didn't have priorities too. The difference with Corbyn is he doesn't have priorities, he wants to spend money on everything.
    Which are ?
    Police was a primary example.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    kle4 said:

    BTW - This will be the tweet that will go atop all future Raab related and No Deal threads

    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1155769740125712391

    In fact any flexibility we may have shown is now countered as we are seeking to be less flexible.
    Raab is entirely correct there.

    We are saying we are ready to talk, they are saying they're not, so we are the ones being more flexible.

    We are saying the undemocratic backstop has to go [too right too!] but not being restrictive atm as to what replaces it. The EU are saying they insist the undemocratic backstop must stay, so they are being inflexible.
    Saying that I want to change something and then claiming that makes me "more flexible" is doublespeak.

    The EU agreed to the Backstop in order to avoid a trade border in the Irish Sea. The ERG and DUP don't want the Backstop, but why should the EU go back to the drawing board to please those two small groups? There is now general consensus that the Backstop is the best protection for the Good Friday Agreement.

    If I were the EU I'd make it clear to BJ that the WA will not be changed. They know that most MPs are anti-BJ, and that No Deal will cause much more damage to the UK than to the EU, so any brinkmanship on BJ's part is bound to fail.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    edited July 2019
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    Have you seen the price of a holiday cottage in the Lakes let alone a decent hotel?
    Hint my last weekend there cost £400 and that was my third choice hotel as we booked at little notice and the others were full.
    And they are already fully booked with the Japanese / Europeans as we discovered on a day trip to the Derwent pencil museum at the weekend....
    Try Skegness or Margate or Blackpool or Southend then if you want a bargain.

    The Lakes will likely be even more full with foreign tourists due to the cheap £
    Rather poke my eyes out with a sharp stick
    The Highlands and Borders, Edinburgh and Aberdeen, even Glasgow are included too
    Yes but once again expensive, cheaper going abroad than going to Edinburgh
    Not for long with Johnson Pound Plummeter as PM
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Omnium said:

    Thanks to Brexit, British people’s horizons are literally shrinking. And Leavers are so indoctrinated, they celebrate that.

    "British people’s horizons are literally shrinking."

    The Earth is getting smaller? Wow! If only we'd known.

    The people of the UK, or anywhere else for that matter, are not going to be constrained by stupid politics. I understand what you're saying, and I even have a degree of sympathy for it - perhaps we have to work harder to discover our big family, but discover we will.

    Of course you're right to worry about all sorts of things like freedom of opportunity, but there's not a chance that small impediments obstruct adventure.

    When a Leaver on thread is advocating Skegness as a substitute for Sardinia for the summer holiday, something is going seriously wrong with Leaver wiring. The small impediments seem to be located between Leavers’ ears.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Appreciate I'm very late to the party, but the idea that a weak pound is going to put pressure on Boris is incredibly one eyed.

    The entire point of his strategy is to convince people he really means to no deal, so the EU reconsider their position under some actual jeopardy rather than assuming we'll take whatever is on offer.

    A weak pound means it's working, at least for the markets (which is a different thing to saying it's the right strategy).

    And given that the EU regard No Deal as the equivalent of trying to save money on a heart transplant by doing it yourself - exactly how does Boris's self inflicted stupidity get the EU back at the table...
    Because it would be pretty shit for them too. As I said - not defending the strategy, just pointing out that this threader rather missed that this is a perfectly deliberate outcome.
    But no matter how bad it is for them - we will be in a worse position...
    And if we're crazy enough to do that, that stops it being bad for them how?

    Ultimately the EU position is basically crazy. The backstop supposedly exists to prevent adverse outcomes if there's no deal at the end of a 2 year standstill period. And they're so determined to defend this that they're willing to cause no deal right now?

    It's a game of chicken and the falling pound is a sign of a success for Boris in getting some people to believe he means what he says.
    Exactly! That's what I've been saying for the past year now.

    Their position is utterly illogical.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    HYUFD said:

    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    Loving the "making you too poor to afford a holiday abroad is actually a good thing" takes from the more monomaniacal leavers.

    Having a holiday in Pembrokeshire and dining on plenty of tasty Welsh lamb will be something we can all look forward to post Brexit
    As a child I spent many holiday on Gower and Pembrokeshire. My abiding memory is sitting inside all day watching the rain pouring down and inedible restaurant meals. I grant you that the food may have improved
    There are some excellent pubs and restaurants in Pembrokeshire and as the heatwave last week showed even some sunshine.

    No Deal Brexit will offer us all the chance to discover again the delightful British seaside resorts and countryside and dine on tasty British beef, pork and lamb maybe washed down with an English sparkling wine
    If they haven't closed...
    Margate, Skegness, Bath, Southend, Bournemouth, Brighton, Blackpool, Eastbourne, Pembrokeshire, Devon and Cornwall and the Lake District could all see a mini boom from No Deal as the low value of the £ sees many more Brits decide it is cheaper to holiday at home for the next year or two and actually discovering they quite like it
    You are either a troll, or quite mad.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856

    Thanks to Brexit, British people’s horizons are literally shrinking. And Leavers are so indoctrinated, they celebrate that.

    Simple question. How many leavers do you actually speak to? And no, I'm not including social media drivel. You seem awfully keen on generalisations.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Appreciate I'm very late to the party, but the idea that a weak pound is going to put pressure on Boris is incredibly one eyed.

    The entire point of his strategy is to convince people he really means to no deal, so the EU reconsider their position under some actual jeopardy rather than assuming we'll take whatever is on offer.

    A weak pound means it's working, at least for the markets (which is a different thing to saying it's the right strategy).

    And given that the EU regard No Deal as the equivalent of trying to save money on a heart transplant by doing it yourself - exactly how does Boris's self inflicted stupidity get the EU back at the table...
    Because it would be pretty shit for them too. As I said - not defending the strategy, just pointing out that this threader rather missed that this is a perfectly deliberate outcome.
    But no matter how bad it is for them - we will be in a worse position...
    And if we're crazy enough to do that, that stops it being bad for them how?

    Ultimately the EU position is basically crazy. The backstop supposedly exists to prevent adverse outcomes if there's no deal at the end of a 2 year standstill period. And they're so determined to defend this that they're willing to cause no deal right now?

    It's a game of chicken and the falling pound is a sign of a success for Boris in getting some people to believe he means what he says.
    No it’s not it’s an indication that he hasn’t a clue about anything. He is a walking disaster and those that back him are either hedge fund managers or deluded. If anyone can tell me how anybody in a leave voting area gains from this I’d be gobsmacked
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Dadge said:

    kle4 said:

    BTW - This will be the tweet that will go atop all future Raab related and No Deal threads

    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1155769740125712391

    In fact any flexibility we may have shown is now countered as we are seeking to be less flexible.
    Raab is entirely correct there.

    We are saying we are ready to talk, they are saying they're not, so we are the ones being more flexible.

    We are saying the undemocratic backstop has to go [too right too!] but not being restrictive atm as to what replaces it. The EU are saying they insist the undemocratic backstop must stay, so they are being inflexible.
    Saying that I want to change something and then claiming that makes me "more flexible" is doublespeak.

    The EU agreed to the Backstop in order to avoid a trade border in the Irish Sea. The ERG and DUP don't want the Backstop, but why should the EU go back to the drawing board to please those two small groups? There is now general consensus that the Backstop is the best protection for the Good Friday Agreement.

    If I were the EU I'd make it clear to BJ that the WA will not be changed. They know that most MPs are anti-BJ, and that No Deal will cause much more damage to the UK than to the EU, so any brinkmanship on BJ's part is bound to fail.
    What you are saying then is that most MPs have more loyalty to Brussels than their UK voters.

    Time for a general election then- and a cull.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    https://order-order.com/2019/07/30/owen-jones-complained-strong-pound-destroyed-working-class-communities/

    Owen Jones changes his entire argument to suit the message he wants to send
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Dadge said:

    kle4 said:

    BTW - This will be the tweet that will go atop all future Raab related and No Deal threads

    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1155769740125712391

    In fact any flexibility we may have shown is now countered as we are seeking to be less flexible.
    Raab is entirely correct there.

    We are saying we are ready to talk, they are saying they're not, so we are the ones being more flexible.

    We are saying the undemocratic backstop has to go [too right too!] but not being restrictive atm as to what replaces it. The EU are saying they insist the undemocratic backstop must stay, so they are being inflexible.
    Saying that I want to change something and then claiming that makes me "more flexible" is doublespeak.

    The EU agreed to the Backstop in order to avoid a trade border in the Irish Sea. The ERG and DUP don't want the Backstop, but why should the EU go back to the drawing board to please those two small groups? There is now general consensus that the Backstop is the best protection for the Good Friday Agreement.

    If I were the EU I'd make it clear to BJ that the WA will not be changed. They know that most MPs are anti-BJ, and that No Deal will cause much more damage to the UK than to the EU, so any brinkmanship on BJ's part is bound to fail.
    There is no "general consensus" whatsoever that's bollocks to quote the Lib Dems word of the moment. Parliament has not voted to reject BJ, it has 3 times rejected the WDA that is why they need to go back to the drawing board.

    How does No Deal protect the GFA?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Thanks to Brexit, British people’s horizons are literally shrinking. And Leavers are so indoctrinated, they celebrate that.

    Simple question. How many leavers do you actually speak to? And no, I'm not including social media drivel. You seem awfully keen on generalisations.
    I live in one of the more Brexity areas of England now.

    I suggest you read the thread and tell me then whether I am unfairly “generalising” about Leaver lunacy.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    eek said:

    Dadge said:

    If there'd been some sort of Brexit Commission, with a cross-party negotiating team, there would've been huge rows but we would be out of the EU by now, under some Norway-style arrangement.

    With a customs border in the Irish Sea or the whole UK in the customs union? Do you really think it would have been possible to get a consensus to proceed with a form of Brexit that negated all the things it was sold as delivering?
    A consensus for something would have occurred - so yes we would be out.
    How? The something you are proposing was bitterly opposed by Boris Johnson all along.

    It's very hard to get a truly democratic country to agree to commit self-harm, in whatever form that takes. No consensus for a deliverable form of Brexit was possible.
    I have decided the focus on 'Brexit' is where the problem has been really. Like a dentist appointment. The destination is having good teeth. The process is much more daunting then the outcome.
    So you’re saying getting punched in the face should just been seen as a necessary step to getting new teeth?

    https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/1155908721182220288?s=21
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    Foxy said:

    OllyT said:

    It really has become about any chance to bash the UK for a lot of people here. I wish you a speedy recovery.

    There is a difference between bashing the UK and bashing what the Brexiteers are doing to the Uk
    Not here there isn't. It's pitiable what certain peoples' posting personas have become. Can't be mentally healthy for one thing.
    Despair at the downward slide of the country and its place in the world is the sign of a true patriot. Indeed nothing is more characteristic of a British patriot than complaining that the place is going to the dogs.
    Despair is not a patriotic characteristic. Nor is exaggerated hysteria over currency fluctuations.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    Dadge said:

    kle4 said:

    BTW - This will be the tweet that will go atop all future Raab related and No Deal threads

    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1155769740125712391

    In fact any flexibility we may have shown is now countered as we are seeking to be less flexible.
    Raab is entirely correct there.

    We are saying we are ready to talk, they are saying they're not, so we are the ones being more flexible.

    We are saying the undemocratic backstop has to go [too right too!] but not being restrictive atm as to what replaces it. The EU are saying they insist the undemocratic backstop must stay, so they are being inflexible.
    Saying that I want to change something and then claiming that makes me "more flexible" is doublespeak.

    The EU agreed to the Backstop in order to avoid a trade border in the Irish Sea. The ERG and DUP don't want the Backstop, but why should the EU go back to the drawing board to please those two small groups? There is now general consensus that the Backstop is the best protection for the Good Friday Agreement.

    If I were the EU I'd make it clear to BJ that the WA will not be changed. They know that most MPs are anti-BJ, and that No Deal will cause much more damage to the UK than to the EU, so any brinkmanship on BJ's part is bound to fail.
    There is no "general consensus" whatsoever that's bollocks to quote the Lib Dems word of the moment. Parliament has not voted to reject BJ, it has 3 times rejected the WDA that is why they need to go back to the drawing board.

    How does No Deal protect the GFA?
    It breaches it - which will rapidly lead to the breaking up of the UK...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Thanks to Brexit, British people’s horizons are literally shrinking. And Leavers are so indoctrinated, they celebrate that.

    Simple question. How many leavers do you actually speak to? And no, I'm not including social media drivel. You seem awfully keen on generalisations.
    I live in one of the more Brexity areas of England now.

    I suggest you read the thread and tell me then whether I am unfairly “generalising” about Leaver lunacy.
    Yes. I only see HYUFD saying what you quoted, I certainly haven't. Do you think HYUFD represents all Leavers?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Thanks to Brexit, British people’s horizons are literally shrinking. And Leavers are so indoctrinated, they celebrate that.

    Simple question. How many leavers do you actually speak to? And no, I'm not including social media drivel. You seem awfully keen on generalisations.
    I live in one of the more Brexity areas of England now.

    I suggest you read the thread and tell me then whether I am unfairly “generalising” about Leaver lunacy.
    Yes. I only see HYUFD saying what you quoted, I certainly haven't. Do you think HYUFD represents all Leavers?
    He’s not quite as bonkers as you.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eek said:

    Dadge said:

    kle4 said:

    BTW - This will be the tweet that will go atop all future Raab related and No Deal threads

    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1155769740125712391

    In fact any flexibility we may have shown is now countered as we are seeking to be less flexible.
    Raab is entirely correct there.

    We are saying we are ready to talk, they are saying they're not, so we are the ones being more flexible.

    We are saying the undemocratic backstop has to go [too right too!] but not being restrictive atm as to what replaces it. The EU are saying they insist the undemocratic backstop must stay, so they are being inflexible.
    Saying that I want to change something and then claiming that makes me "more flexible" is doublespeak.

    The EU agreed to the Backstop in order to avoid a trade border in the Irish Sea. The ERG and DUP don't want the Backstop, but why should the EU go back to the drawing board to please those two small groups? There is now general consensus that the Backstop is the best protection for the Good Friday Agreement.

    If I were the EU I'd make it clear to BJ that the WA will not be changed. They know that most MPs are anti-BJ, and that No Deal will cause much more damage to the UK than to the EU, so any brinkmanship on BJ's part is bound to fail.
    There is no "general consensus" whatsoever that's bollocks to quote the Lib Dems word of the moment. Parliament has not voted to reject BJ, it has 3 times rejected the WDA that is why they need to go back to the drawing board.

    How does No Deal protect the GFA?
    It breaches it - which will rapidly lead to the breaking up of the UK...
    Slight problem, breaking up the UK without the consent of NI voters also breaches the GFA.

    So you're saying the EU are willing to breach the GFA in order to secure the undemocratic backstop and you think that is appropriate? How is them choosing to breach the GFA rather than go to the drawing board appropriate?
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    Well I for one do not want a mini boom in the Lake district because of a devalued pound, the hot spots are bad enough already, and most visitors never go far from their cars, and buy high tech expedition grade cagoules to walk around the shops. Yuk.
    Still possible to find remoteness in the Lakes, and even more so in the Eden valley, where I often live.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Thanks to Brexit, British people’s horizons are literally shrinking. And Leavers are so indoctrinated, they celebrate that.

    Simple question. How many leavers do you actually speak to? And no, I'm not including social media drivel. You seem awfully keen on generalisations.
    I live in one of the more Brexity areas of England now.

    I suggest you read the thread and tell me then whether I am unfairly “generalising” about Leaver lunacy.
    Yes. I only see HYUFD saying what you quoted, I certainly haven't. Do you think HYUFD represents all Leavers?
    He’s not quite as bonkers as you.
    I seem to be getting what I've been advocating for a long time at the moment. I feel like with Boris Johnson and his cabinet rejecting the undemocratic backstop - after me arguing here that the backstop was unforgivably undemocratic - that I am winning the argument.
This discussion has been closed.