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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Another Westminster by-election possibility opens up for the L

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  • noisywinternoisywinter Posts: 249
    Any more polls tonight? Exciting Saturday night for us losers :)
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Yorkcity said:


    Britain Elects
    @britainelects
    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 30% (+7)
    LAB: 28% (+3)
    LDEM: 16% (+1)
    BREX: 15% (-7)
    GRN: 5% (-3)

    A reversion towards the May local elections result.

    Conservatives and Labour are likely to rise together and fall together.
    Quite incredible. Almost by magic, Labour sympathisers suddenly switch from LD and Greens just like they did in 2017 GE at the prospect of Tory surge.
    Lib Dems up - Green switch to labour
    +1 the week the Lib Dems get their new leader, seems a bit low.
    I was countering the argument that lib dem and green voters return to labour

    I am treating all polls with caution as this huge change in personal and Boris needs time to stabilise in the polls

    I am obviously satisfied with the +10 in Deltapoll for Boris but lets not get carried away
    We have to wonder as to what Labour need to do to reduce their vote. They've tried everything, but stubbornly 25% or so of people think that they're still worth voting for. I think it has to be doing something nasty to kittens next, or compulsory Abbott maths for all.

    If Labour had gone the other way and tried to bolster their support would the numbers have been equally static?
    Although you’ve framed it humorously, there is a serious question in there. The Labour vote is “sticky” and bloody hard to push down, but equally, it seems just as likely that it’ll be enormously difficult to push it above say 30%. You cannot win FPTP elections on 30%.
    Both Labour and the Tories benefit from unthinking voters in huge numbers.
    No deal would get them thinking.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Yorkcity said:


    Britain Elects
    @britainelects
    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 30% (+7)
    LAB: 28% (+3)
    LDEM: 16% (+1)
    BREX: 15% (-7)
    GRN: 5% (-3)

    A reversion towards the May local elections result.

    Conservatives and Labour are likely to rise together and fall together.
    Quite incredible. Almost by magic, Labour sympathisers suddenly switch from LD and Greens just like they did in 2017 GE at the prospect of Tory surge.
    Lib Dems up - Green switch to labour
    +1 the week the Lib Dems get their new leader, seems a bit low.
    I was countering the argument that lib dem and green voters return to labour

    I am treating all polls with caution as this huge change in personal and Boris needs time to stabilise in the polls

    I am obviously satisfied with the +10 in Deltapoll for Boris but lets not get carried away
    We have to wonder as to what Labour need to do to reduce their vote. They've tried everything, but stubbornly 25% or so of people think that they're still worth voting for. I think it has to be doing something nasty to kittens next, or compulsory Abbott maths for all.

    If Labour had gone the other way and tried to bolster their support would the numbers have been equally static?
    Although you’ve framed it humorously, there is a serious question in there. The Labour vote is “sticky” and bloody hard to push down, but equally, it seems just as likely that it’ll be enormously difficult to push it above say 30%. You cannot win FPTP elections on 30%.
    Both Labour and the Tories benefit from unthinking voters in huge numbers.
    No deal would get them thinking.
    On another subject, are you offended if someone accidentally calls you English?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Jeremy Corbyn is planning to almost double the level of tax on thousands of companies across Britain, one of the country's most prominent law firms has warned.

    In a briefing for clients, Herbert Smith Freehills said Labour's economic blueprint includes the equivalent of a corporation tax rate of up to 32 per cent, compared to the 17 per cent rate due to come into force next year.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/27/jeremy-corbyn-planning-almost-double-tax-burden-british-businesses/amp/
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    Scott_P said:
    I'm always suspicious of polls which say "If this factor was different, what would you do then?" because they nudge the respondent into varying the answer, without knowing what the alternative would actually be. But that 5 point difference in the Lab/LD vote is where an election will be fought, with some of it swinging tactically.

    I agree with this to an extent. Johnson will inspire a level of anti-Tory tactical voting that no other Tory leader could. All the polls tonight show the potential for it. The problem, though, is that head to head Corbyn is way behind Johnson, so there is a strong anti-Labour vote out there, too, because of that.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Quick summary:

    On that Opinium (C30%, L28, LD16, BXP15)

    Flavible: Con 289, Lab 246, LD 41, SNP 51, BXP 1
    Baxter: Con 301, Lab 253, LD 37, SNP 37, BXP 1

    On that Deltapoll/MOS (30, 25, 18, 14):

    Flavible: Con 309, Lab 216, LD 50, SNP 51, BXP 1
    Baxter: Con 322, Lab 224, LD 46, SNP 36, BXP 1

    On that YouGov (31, 21, 20, 13):

    Flavible: Con 335, Lab 181, LD 60, SNP 49, BXP 2(!)
    Baxter: Con 358, Lab 183, LD 51, SNP 35, BXP 0

    https://flavible.com
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    For avoidance of doubt, I did check: none of these figures prevent LD taking Brecon.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    I wonder if Jezza will be demanding a General Election tomorrow?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    HYUFD said:

    The poll HYUFD kept on posting during the Tory leadership election had the hypothetical Boris-led Conservatives on 32%, so both these polls are disappointing for them.

    Tories on 30% for the first time in months not disappointing at all
    Congratulations HYUFD.

    You called Boris correctly and the 31% is just 1% below your prediction

    We may not agree on everything but credit where it is due
    Indeed, I don't often agree with HYUFD but he got that virtually spot on.

    It will amaze me if 32% isn't hit within the next week or two too.
    It is a sign of how far the Tories have fallen that you’d be cockahoop with 32%.

    My party routinely get c40%, and we’re told that’s rubbish.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    nico67 said:

    A bounce for Bozo .

    It would have been a big surprise if this didn’t happen given the non stop coverage . Indeed it’s like he’s got a free ride for the next month with his policy announcements.

    I have been making this point for the last few days

    Boris will be on the media everyday through August with trips to EU leaders and almost certainly the US, as well as his domestic agenda. I expect him to announce a £10 living wage soon as he was a living wage supporter in London

    If I was a labour mp I would be straining every sinew to pass a deal and exit on the 31st Oct
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780

    Scott_P said:
    I'm always suspicious of polls which say "If this factor was different, what would you do then?" because they nudge the respondent into varying the answer, without knowing what the alternative would actually be. But that 5 point difference in the Lab/LD vote is where an election will be fought, with some of it swinging tactically.
    What does Labour look like without Corbyn anyway?

    They've lost the cadre of middle-rankers that set the tone.
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    edited July 2019
    Early days yet for Boris but he's hit the ground running and thus far his team have got the PR and substance just right. Suggestions that he's lazy, unserious and has no plan seem a bit off the mark just now. Early days though.

    At least he's had a significant bounce unlike Swinson. Her antics over a VONC looked childish and opportunistic and for once Corbyn called his response correctly.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    HYUFD said:

    The poll HYUFD kept on posting during the Tory leadership election had the hypothetical Boris-led Conservatives on 32%, so both these polls are disappointing for them.

    Tories on 30% for the first time in months not disappointing at all
    Congratulations HYUFD.

    You called Boris correctly and the 31% is just 1% below your prediction

    We may not agree on everything but credit where it is due
    Indeed, I don't often agree with HYUFD but he got that virtually spot on.

    It will amaze me if 32% isn't hit within the next week or two too.
    It is a sign of how far the Tories have fallen that you’d be cockahoop with 32%.

    My party routinely get c40%, and we’re told that’s rubbish.
    I have never said it is rubbish and I expect that by the next General Election the Tories will be polling closer to 40% than 30%.

    31% is just the beginning. It is not good enough.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    viewcode said:

    For avoidance of doubt, I did check: none of these figures prevent LD taking Brecon.

    Even if you Monte Carlo within an error budget of 2 per cent ?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780

    HYUFD said:

    The poll HYUFD kept on posting during the Tory leadership election had the hypothetical Boris-led Conservatives on 32%, so both these polls are disappointing for them.

    Tories on 30% for the first time in months not disappointing at all
    Congratulations HYUFD.

    You called Boris correctly and the 31% is just 1% below your prediction

    We may not agree on everything but credit where it is due
    Indeed, I don't often agree with HYUFD but he got that virtually spot on.

    It will amaze me if 32% isn't hit within the next week or two too.
    It is a sign of how far the Tories have fallen that you’d be cockahoop with 32%.

    My party routinely get c40%, and we’re told that’s rubbish.
    Who's your party?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    HYUFD said:

    The poll HYUFD kept on posting during the Tory leadership election had the hypothetical Boris-led Conservatives on 32%, so both these polls are disappointing for them.

    Tories on 30% for the first time in months not disappointing at all
    Congratulations HYUFD.

    You called Boris correctly and the 31% is just 1% below your prediction

    We may not agree on everything but credit where it is due
    Indeed, I don't often agree with HYUFD but he got that virtually spot on.

    It will amaze me if 32% isn't hit within the next week or two too.
    All he did was cut and paste a published opinion poll into PB. His thesis was that Bozo would get the bigger bounce than Hunt - we shall never know.

    That the new PM would get a bounce wasn’t in doubt (and I posted that he would, multiple times). Brown got a bounce, May got a bounce. The question is how long it lasts, particularly after Bozo starts on the more tricky parts of the job,
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Jeremy Corbyn is planning to almost double the level of tax on thousands of companies across Britain, one of the country's most prominent law firms has warned.

    In a briefing for clients, Herbert Smith Freehills said Labour's economic blueprint includes the equivalent of a corporation tax rate of up to 32 per cent, compared to the 17 per cent rate due to come into force next year.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/27/jeremy-corbyn-planning-almost-double-tax-burden-british-businesses/amp/

    Let's be honest, a corp. tax rate of 32% isn't going to keep any Labour or Labour-leaning voters up at night. Brazil has a corp. tax rate of 34%. India 35%.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679

    Any more polls tonight? Exciting Saturday night for us losers :)

    Comres at 10.30
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Someone earlier today on PB predicted Youguv a 12 point lead for the Tories.
    I agreed not far off.
    All the other polls are very different.
    I know which poll the BBC will pick tomorrow.
  • noisywinternoisywinter Posts: 249
    Do you expect Boris to bad as much of a disaster on the campaign as May?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2019
    O/T

    "A female entertainer who works on the ship said: 'There was a person dressed as a clown and this upset the other passengers."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7292241/Violence-high-seas-clown-sparks-mass-brawl-aboard-P-O-cruise-liner-Britannia.html
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited July 2019
    The Boris bounce is utterly expected, but it is a decent one. I expect we haven’t seen the entirety of it yet, either.

    The traffic, though, is all from Brexit to Boris. Labour still appear to be breathing down Tory necks, and the Lib Dem momentum continues.

    Remain parties outpoll Brexit ones, and YouGov aside (big caveat), the Tories would lose the government benches on each of the polls tonight.

    This is a decent start by Boris but it is equivalent to a boundary in the first over - no predictor of outcome.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited July 2019
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    viewcode said:

    For avoidance of doubt, I did check: none of these figures prevent LD taking Brecon.

    Even if you Monte Carlo within an error budget of 2 per cent ?
    Grrr.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    The poll HYUFD kept on posting during the Tory leadership election had the hypothetical Boris-led Conservatives on 32%, so both these polls are disappointing for them.

    Tories on 30% for the first time in months not disappointing at all
    Congratulations HYUFD.

    You called Boris correctly and the 31% is just 1% below your prediction

    We may not agree on everything but credit where it is due
    Indeed, I don't often agree with HYUFD but he got that virtually spot on.

    It will amaze me if 32% isn't hit within the next week or two too.
    It is a sign of how far the Tories have fallen that you’d be cockahoop with 32%.

    My party routinely get c40%, and we’re told that’s rubbish.
    Who's your party?
    Scottish National Party
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    RobD said:
    It was the epoch of disbelief, it was the time of tartan trews...
  • ***** Betting Post *****
    Considering that most bookies make it an evens chance or thereabouts that there will be a GE this calendar year, it's surprising that thus far there are no betting markets, nor spead-betting prices, on the number of seats each of the three major parties are likely to win.
    Deducting the current number of SNP seats, those held by the N.I. parties, Plaid, etc, the combined haul of Tory, Labour and LiBDem seats appears likely to total approx 580 seats.
    My first stab at how these might shake out, with a 20 seat spread of seats looks something like this to me:
    Tory ....... 260 - 280
    Labour .... 220 - 240
    LibDem ..... 70 - 90
    What kind of split of seats between the parties do other PBers anticipate?
    One outcome does look very unlikely and that's an overall majority for any party. That's where the betting angle comes into play with those nice folf at Ladbrokes (and presumably Corals also) offering seemingly generous "boosted" odds of 0.7/1 on there being no overall majority ... that looks like value to me but DYOR.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133

    ***** Betting Post *****
    Considering that most bookies make it an evens chance or thereabouts that there will be a GE this calendar year, it's surprising that thus far there are no betting markets, nor spead-betting prices, on the number of seats each of the three major parties are likely to win.
    Deducting the current number of SNP seats, those held by the N.I. parties, Plaid, etc, the combined haul of Tory, Labour and LiBDem seats appears likely to total approx 580 seats.
    My first stab at how these might shake out, with a 20 seat spread of seats looks something like this to me:
    Tory ....... 260 - 280
    Labour .... 220 - 240
    LibDem ..... 70 - 90
    What kind of split of seats between the parties do other PBers anticipate?
    One outcome does look very unlikely and that's an overall majority for any party. That's where the betting angle comes into play with those nice folf at Ladbrokes (and presumably Corals also) offering seemingly generous "boosted" odds of 0.7/1 on there being no overall majority ... that looks like value to me but DYOR.

    I would suggest the key factor is brexit on the 31st October

    If Boris achieves a deal he would deserve to reap the reward, and that is from one of his many doubters
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    RobD said:
    Proportionately bigger......
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847

    ***** Betting Post *****
    Considering that most bookies make it an evens chance or thereabouts that there will be a GE this calendar year, it's surprising that thus far there are no betting markets, nor spead-betting prices, on the number of seats each of the three major parties are likely to win.
    Deducting the current number of SNP seats, those held by the N.I. parties, Plaid, etc, the combined haul of Tory, Labour and LiBDem seats appears likely to total approx 580 seats.
    My first stab at how these might shake out, with a 20 seat spread of seats looks something like this to me:
    Tory ....... 260 - 280
    Labour .... 220 - 240
    LibDem ..... 70 - 90
    What kind of split of seats between the parties do other PBers anticipate?
    One outcome does look very unlikely and that's an overall majority for any party. That's where the betting angle comes into play with those nice folf at Ladbrokes (and presumably Corals also) offering seemingly generous "boosted" odds of 0.7/1 on there being no overall majority ... that looks like value to me but DYOR.

    I would suggest the key factor is brexit on the 31st October

    If Boris achieves a deal he would deserve to reap the reward, and that is from one of his many doubters
    Surely that depends on whether Brexit is a disaster or not?
  • PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 712

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    The poll HYUFD kept on posting during the Tory leadership election had the hypothetical Boris-led Conservatives on 32%, so both these polls are disappointing for them.

    Tories on 30% for the first time in months not disappointing at all
    Congratulations HYUFD.

    You called Boris correctly and the 31% is just 1% below your prediction

    We may not agree on everything but credit where it is due
    Indeed, I don't often agree with HYUFD but he got that virtually spot on.

    It will amaze me if 32% isn't hit within the next week or two too.
    It is a sign of how far the Tories have fallen that you’d be cockahoop with 32%.

    My party routinely get c40%, and we’re told that’s rubbish.
    Who's your party?
    Scottish National Party
    Who?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    Do you expect Boris to bad as much of a disaster on the campaign as May?

    May got 42% in the election. What changed was the Labour vote. That’s the key to all this. Can Labour match Johnson’s claw back of BXP voters? What there is no evidence of so far is the Tories taking 2017 Labour votes. For Johnson to have any degree of confidence of victory that’s what he needs. It’s clearly what he’s after.

  • ***** Betting Post *****
    Considering that most bookies make it an evens chance or thereabouts that there will be a GE this calendar year, it's surprising that thus far there are no betting markets, nor spead-betting prices, on the number of seats each of the three major parties are likely to win.
    Deducting the current number of SNP seats, those held by the N.I. parties, Plaid, etc, the combined haul of Tory, Labour and LiBDem seats appears likely to total approx 580 seats.
    My first stab at how these might shake out, with a 20 seat spread of seats looks something like this to me:
    Tory ....... 260 - 280
    Labour .... 220 - 240
    LibDem ..... 70 - 90
    What kind of split of seats between the parties do other PBers anticipate?
    One outcome does look very unlikely and that's an overall majority for any party. That's where the betting angle comes into play with those nice folf at Ladbrokes (and presumably Corals also) offering seemingly generous "boosted" odds of 0.7/1 on there being no overall majority ... that looks like value to me but DYOR.

    Is anyone going to be really brave and suggest that the LibDems' haul of GE seats could run well into 3 figures? At what share of the popular vote, do seats start to really tumble their way?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    ***** Betting Post *****
    Considering that most bookies make it an evens chance or thereabouts that there will be a GE this calendar year, it's surprising that thus far there are no betting markets, nor spead-betting prices, on the number of seats each of the three major parties are likely to win.
    Deducting the current number of SNP seats, those held by the N.I. parties, Plaid, etc, the combined haul of Tory, Labour and LiBDem seats appears likely to total approx 580 seats.
    My first stab at how these might shake out, with a 20 seat spread of seats looks something like this to me:
    Tory ....... 260 - 280
    Labour .... 220 - 240
    LibDem ..... 70 - 90
    What kind of split of seats between the parties do other PBers anticipate?
    One outcome does look very unlikely and that's an overall majority for any party. That's where the betting angle comes into play with those nice folf at Ladbrokes (and presumably Corals also) offering seemingly generous "boosted" odds of 0.7/1 on there being no overall majority ... that looks like value to me but DYOR.

    I would suggest the key factor is brexit on the 31st October

    If Boris achieves a deal he would deserve to reap the reward, and that is from one of his many doubters
    Surely that depends on whether Brexit is a disaster or not?
    The problem is that Remain have painted no-deal Brexit in such apocalyptic terms (no planes flying, medicines running out, food riots) that the likely outcome (a few bumps, but nothing too serious, followed by years of missed opportunities which economists will squabble over the quantification of) will seem like a “success”.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    "A female entertainer who works on the ship said: 'There was a person dressed as a clown and this upset the other passengers."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7292241/Violence-high-seas-clown-sparks-mass-brawl-aboard-P-O-cruise-liner-Britannia.html

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbC_HNHQ9JY
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133

    ***** Betting Post *****
    Considering that most bookies make it an evens chance or thereabouts that there will be a GE this calendar year, it's surprising that thus far there are no betting markets, nor spead-betting prices, on the number of seats each of the three major parties are likely to win.
    Deducting the current number of SNP seats, those held by the N.I. parties, Plaid, etc, the combined haul of Tory, Labour and LiBDem seats appears likely to total approx 580 seats.
    My first stab at how these might shake out, with a 20 seat spread of seats looks something like this to me:
    Tory ....... 260 - 280
    Labour .... 220 - 240
    LibDem ..... 70 - 90
    What kind of split of seats between the parties do other PBers anticipate?
    One outcome does look very unlikely and that's an overall majority for any party. That's where the betting angle comes into play with those nice folf at Ladbrokes (and presumably Corals also) offering seemingly generous "boosted" odds of 0.7/1 on there being no overall majority ... that looks like value to me but DYOR.

    I would suggest the key factor is brexit on the 31st October

    If Boris achieves a deal he would deserve to reap the reward, and that is from one of his many doubters
    Surely that depends on whether Brexit is a disaster or not?
    The outcome of brexit will not be known for several years, maybe not before the GE after the next

    In the short term a deal with the EU will change the narrative totally
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited July 2019
    Interesting polls tonight with perhaps Comres yet to come. The switch from Brexit Party to the Tories is hardly surprising. Overall they confirm my expectation of polarisation with the combined two party vote unlikely to fall below 65% in a GE. Still a very clear Yougov house effect. LibDems probably somewhat disappointed re-Swinson bounce.
  • noisywinternoisywinter Posts: 249

    Do you expect Boris to bad as much of a disaster on the campaign as May?

    May got 42% in the election. What changed was the Labour vote. That’s the key to all this. Can Labour match Johnson’s claw back of BXP voters? What there is no evidence of so far is the Tories taking 2017 Labour votes. For Johnson to have any degree of confidence of victory that’s what he needs. It’s clearly what he’s after.

    Valid point! Although to an extent the addition of the Labour 2017 vote may to some extent have been a consequence of the Tory campaign

    Also, Corbyn is less popular than in 2017, and has angered remainers

    Also also, warnings of a Corbyn government unless you vote Tory will be more prescient than in 2017, when Labour surprised bigly. I think that could be worth 2 or 3 % to the Tories

    Just my tuppence :)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490

    https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1155213186548797440

    YouGov will give a Tory majority. No change there !

    Three Boris Bounces out of three!
    Sleazy, broken lib dems on the slide.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    ***** Betting Post *****
    Considering that most bookies make it an evens chance or thereabouts that there will be a GE this calendar year, it's surprising that thus far there are no betting markets, nor spead-betting prices, on the number of seats each of the three major parties are likely to win.
    Deducting the current number of SNP seats, those held by the N.I. parties, Plaid, etc, the combined haul of Tory, Labour and LiBDem seats appears likely to total approx 580 seats.
    My first stab at how these might shake out, with a 20 seat spread of seats looks something like this to me:
    Tory ....... 260 - 280
    Labour .... 220 - 240
    LibDem ..... 70 - 90
    What kind of split of seats between the parties do other PBers anticipate?
    One outcome does look very unlikely and that's an overall majority for any party. That's where the betting angle comes into play with those nice folf at Ladbrokes (and presumably Corals also) offering seemingly generous "boosted" odds of 0.7/1 on there being no overall majority ... that looks like value to me but DYOR.

    I would suggest the key factor is brexit on the 31st October

    If Boris achieves a deal he would deserve to reap the reward, and that is from one of his many doubters
    Surely that depends on whether Brexit is a disaster or not?
    The problem is that Remain have painted no-deal Brexit in such apocalyptic terms (no planes flying, medicines running out, food riots) that the likely outcome (a few bumps, but nothing too serious, followed by years of missed opportunities which economists will squabble over the quantification of) will seem like a “success”.

    Although, we are just about to enter a three month period of being told by the government and much of the media that No Deal will be no problem at all.

  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    ***** Betting Post *****
    Considering that most bookies make it an evens chance or thereabouts that there will be a GE this calendar year, it's surprising that thus far there are no betting markets, nor spead-betting prices, on the number of seats each of the three major parties are likely to win.
    Deducting the current number of SNP seats, those held by the N.I. parties, Plaid, etc, the combined haul of Tory, Labour and LiBDem seats appears likely to total approx 580 seats.
    My first stab at how these might shake out, with a 20 seat spread of seats looks something like this to me:
    Tory ....... 260 - 280
    Labour .... 220 - 240
    LibDem ..... 70 - 90
    What kind of split of seats between the parties do other PBers anticipate?
    One outcome does look very unlikely and that's an overall majority for any party. That's where the betting angle comes into play with those nice folf at Ladbrokes (and presumably Corals also) offering seemingly generous "boosted" odds of 0.7/1 on there being no overall majority ... that looks like value to me but DYOR.

    Is anyone going to be really brave and suggest that the LibDems' haul of GE seats could run well into 3 figures? At what share of the popular vote, do seats start to really tumble their way?
    Your LibDem figure is far too high - 20 - 30 would be much more likely.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited July 2019

    ***** Betting Post *****
    Considering that most bookies make it an evens chance or thereabouts that there will be a GE this calendar year, it's surprising that thus far there are no betting markets, nor spead-betting prices, on the number of seats each of the three major parties are likely to win.
    Deducting the current number of SNP seats, those held by the N.I. parties, Plaid, etc, the combined haul of Tory, Labour and LiBDem seats appears likely to total approx 580 seats.
    My first stab at how these might shake out, with a 20 seat spread of seats looks something like this to me:
    Tory ....... 260 - 280
    Labour .... 220 - 240
    LibDem ..... 70 - 90
    What kind of split of seats between the parties do other PBers anticipate?
    One outcome does look very unlikely and that's an overall majority for any party. That's where the betting angle comes into play with those nice folf at Ladbrokes (and presumably Corals also) offering seemingly generous "boosted" odds of 0.7/1 on there being no overall majority ... that looks like value to me but DYOR.

    I would set it at:

    Tory 320-340
    Labour 190-210
    Lib Dem 40-60

    (330, 200, 50 line)

    However it all depends upon Halloween. If Boris voluntarily requests an extension then Tory numbers will plummet. If Boris successfully delivers Brexit then Tory numbers will surge.

    If there is a VONC and the opposition forces an extension it could go either way depending upon how it goes down . . . I think it could play into Boris's hands, but if Grieve and co put Corbyn into Number 10 expect Lib Dems to crater and it will be like 2017 redux - a binary choice between Tory and Labour.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    HYUFD said:

    The poll HYUFD kept on posting during the Tory leadership election had the hypothetical Boris-led Conservatives on 32%, so both these polls are disappointing for them.

    Tories on 30% for the first time in months not disappointing at all
    Congratulations HYUFD.

    You called Boris correctly and the 31% is just 1% below your prediction

    We may not agree on everything but credit where it is due
    Indeed, I don't often agree with HYUFD but he got that virtually spot on.

    It will amaze me if 32% isn't hit within the next week or two too.
    It is a sign of how far the Tories have fallen that you’d be cockahoop with 32%.

    My party routinely get c40%, and we’re told that’s rubbish.
    You lost a few Westminster MPs in 2017
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847

    ***** Betting Post *****
    Considering that most bookies make it an evens chance or thereabouts that there will be a GE this calendar year, it's surprising that thus far there are no betting markets, nor spead-betting prices, on the number of seats each of the three major parties are likely to win.
    Deducting the current number of SNP seats, those held by the N.I. parties, Plaid, etc, the combined haul of Tory, Labour and LiBDem seats appears likely to total approx 580 seats.
    My first stab at how these might shake out, with a 20 seat spread of seats looks something like this to me:
    Tory ....... 260 - 280
    Labour .... 220 - 240
    LibDem ..... 70 - 90
    What kind of split of seats between the parties do other PBers anticipate?
    One outcome does look very unlikely and that's an overall majority for any party. That's where the betting angle comes into play with those nice folf at Ladbrokes (and presumably Corals also) offering seemingly generous "boosted" odds of 0.7/1 on there being no overall majority ... that looks like value to me but DYOR.

    I would suggest the key factor is brexit on the 31st October

    If Boris achieves a deal he would deserve to reap the reward, and that is from one of his many doubters
    Surely that depends on whether Brexit is a disaster or not?
    The outcome of brexit will not be known for several years, maybe not before the GE after the next

    In the short term a deal with the EU will change the narrative totally
    I disagree with that. The long term outcome will never be known as the alternative paths are unknown and remain/leave wont have shared viewpoints on how we would have done in different scenarios.

    The only outcome of Brexit that we will ever know is the short term impact in the first few months and possibly up to a year.
  • justin124 said:

    Interesting polls tonight with perhaps Comres yet to come. The switch from Brexit Party to the Tories is hardly surprising. Overall they confirm my expectation of polarisation with the combined two party vote unlikely to fall below 65% in a GE. Still a very clear Yougov house effect. LibDems probably somewhat disappointed re-Swinson bounce.

    With Swinson urging Corbyn to initiate a Vote of No Confifence against the Gov't, she's clearly going to be identified as Labour's key ally both before and after the GE. In such circumstances she can forget all about any bounce in her favour.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    Scott_P said:
    If Mark Sedwell attempts that he will be the one leaving

    He is hugely distrusted by the brexiteers
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Do you expect Boris to bad as much of a disaster on the campaign as May?

    May got 42% in the election. What changed was the Labour vote. That’s the key to all this. Can Labour match Johnson’s claw back of BXP voters? What there is no evidence of so far is the Tories taking 2017 Labour votes. For Johnson to have any degree of confidence of victory that’s what he needs. It’s clearly what he’s after.

    Valid point! Although to an extent the addition of the Labour 2017 vote may to some extent have been a consequence of the Tory campaign

    Also, Corbyn is less popular than in 2017, and has angered remainers

    Also also, warnings of a Corbyn government unless you vote Tory will be more prescient than in 2017, when Labour surprised bigly. I think that could be worth 2 or 3 % to the Tories

    Just my tuppence :)
    Corbyn is less popular than in June 2017 - but it is far from clear that he is less popular than Feb/March 2017 when Labour lost Copeland by election to the Tories.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited July 2019
    Nominations closed for the Shetland by-election. Ten candidates:

    Johan Adamson, Scottish Labour and Co-operative Party
    Brydon Goodlad, Scottish Conservative and Unionist
    Stuart Martin, UK Independence Party (UKIP)
    Debra Nicolson, Scottish Green Party
    Ian Scott, Independent
    Michael Stout, Independent
    Peter Tait, Independent
    Ryan Thomson, Independent
    Tom Wills, Scottish National Party (SNP)
    Beatrice Wishart, Scottish Liberal Democrats

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49133339
  • PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 712

    Jeremy Corbyn is planning to almost double the level of tax on thousands of companies across Britain, one of the country's most prominent law firms has warned.

    In a briefing for clients, Herbert Smith Freehills said Labour's economic blueprint includes the equivalent of a corporation tax rate of up to 32 per cent, compared to the 17 per cent rate due to come into force next year.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/27/jeremy-corbyn-planning-almost-double-tax-burden-british-businesses/amp/

    And HSF would say that to their clients, wouldn't they?!

    We're one of them btw

    viewcode said:

    We do not speak of that article. It is nasty and hurts our insides.
    Does it? I cannot recall that article being posted on PB.
    Are you this tedious in real life?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    The poll HYUFD kept on posting during the Tory leadership election had the hypothetical Boris-led Conservatives on 32%, so both these polls are disappointing for them.

    Tories on 30% for the first time in months not disappointing at all
    Congratulations HYUFD.

    You called Boris correctly and the 31% is just 1% below your prediction

    We may not agree on everything but credit where it is due
    Indeed, I don't often agree with HYUFD but he got that virtually spot on.

    It will amaze me if 32% isn't hit within the next week or two too.
    It is a sign of how far the Tories have fallen that you’d be cockahoop with 32%.

    My party routinely get c40%, and we’re told that’s rubbish.
    Who's your party?
    Scottish National Party
    Who?
    The ones who shout a lot that people against them "will rue the day"

    That and the bag of chips on their shoulders are the big tells.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    Interesting polls tonight with perhaps Comres yet to come. The switch from Brexit Party to the Tories is hardly surprising. Overall they confirm my expectation of polarisation with the combined two party vote unlikely to fall below 65% in a GE. Still a very clear Yougov house effect. LibDems probably somewhat disappointed re-Swinson bounce.

    With Swinson urging Corbyn to initiate a Vote of No Confifence against the Gov't, she's clearly going to be identified as Labour's key ally both before and after the GE. In such circumstances she can forget all about any bounce in her favour.
    I don't follow that . She might reasonably have expected a bounce as the perceived Anti- Tory alternative - but little sign overall.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847

    ***** Betting Post *****
    Considering that most bookies make it an evens chance or thereabouts that there will be a GE this calendar year, it's surprising that thus far there are no betting markets, nor spead-betting prices, on the number of seats each of the three major parties are likely to win.
    Deducting the current number of SNP seats, those held by the N.I. parties, Plaid, etc, the combined haul of Tory, Labour and LiBDem seats appears likely to total approx 580 seats.
    My first stab at how these might shake out, with a 20 seat spread of seats looks something like this to me:
    Tory ....... 260 - 280
    Labour .... 220 - 240
    LibDem ..... 70 - 90
    What kind of split of seats between the parties do other PBers anticipate?
    One outcome does look very unlikely and that's an overall majority for any party. That's where the betting angle comes into play with those nice folf at Ladbrokes (and presumably Corals also) offering seemingly generous "boosted" odds of 0.7/1 on there being no overall majority ... that looks like value to me but DYOR.

    I would set it at:

    Tory 320-340
    Labour 190-210
    Lib Dem 40-60

    (330, 200, 50 line)

    However it all depends upon Halloween. If Boris voluntarily requests an extension then Tory numbers will plummet. If Boris successfully delivers Brexit then Tory numbers will surge.

    If there is a VONC and the opposition forces an extension it could go either way depending upon how it goes down . . . I think it could play into Boris's hands, but if Grieve and co put Corbyn into Number 10 expect Lib Dems to crater and it will be like 2017 redux - a binary choice between Tory and Labour.
    Halfway between the two of you is about right.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    Do you expect Boris to bad as much of a disaster on the campaign as May?

    May got 42% in the election. What changed was the Labour vote. That’s the key to all this. Can Labour match Johnson’s claw back of BXP voters? What there is no evidence of so far is the Tories taking 2017 Labour votes. For Johnson to have any degree of confidence of victory that’s what he needs. It’s clearly what he’s after.

    Valid point! Although to an extent the addition of the Labour 2017 vote may to some extent have been a consequence of the Tory campaign

    Also, Corbyn is less popular than in 2017, and has angered remainers

    Also also, warnings of a Corbyn government unless you vote Tory will be more prescient than in 2017, when Labour surprised bigly. I think that could be worth 2 or 3 % to the Tories

    Just my tuppence :)

    My guess is that Johnson inspires a lot more visceral dislike among 2017 Labour GE voters than May ever did. That may help nudge Labour upwards. But Corbyn is clearly a millstone around the party’s neck. The Tories need him to stay in place.

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Jeremy Corbyn is planning to almost double the level of tax on thousands of companies across Britain, one of the country's most prominent law firms has warned.

    In a briefing for clients, Herbert Smith Freehills said Labour's economic blueprint includes the equivalent of a corporation tax rate of up to 32 per cent, compared to the 17 per cent rate due to come into force next year.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/27/jeremy-corbyn-planning-almost-double-tax-burden-british-businesses/amp/

    Let's be honest, a corp. tax rate of 32% isn't going to keep any Labour or Labour-leaning voters up at night. Brazil has a corp. tax rate of 34%. India 35%.
    Businesses will be less attracted to these shores with everything that means- you get that right?

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    justin124 said:

    Interesting polls tonight with perhaps Comres yet to come. The switch from Brexit Party to the Tories is hardly surprising. Overall they confirm my expectation of polarisation with the combined two party vote unlikely to fall below 65% in a GE. Still a very clear Yougov house effect. LibDems probably somewhat disappointed re-Swinson bounce.

    With Swinson urging Corbyn to initiate a Vote of No Confifence against the Gov't, she's clearly going to be identified as Labour's key ally both before and after the GE. In such circumstances she can forget all about any bounce in her favour.
    Identifying as Labour’s key ally will damage her in her battle to defeat the SNP in East Dunbartonshire. She is entirely dependent on mass SCon tactical voting to hold the seat.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Do you expect Boris to bad as much of a disaster on the campaign as May?

    May got 42% in the election. What changed was the Labour vote. That’s the key to all this. Can Labour match Johnson’s claw back of BXP voters? What there is no evidence of so far is the Tories taking 2017 Labour votes. For Johnson to have any degree of confidence of victory that’s what he needs. It’s clearly what he’s after.

    Valid point! Although to an extent the addition of the Labour 2017 vote may to some extent have been a consequence of the Tory campaign

    Also, Corbyn is less popular than in 2017, and has angered remainers

    Also also, warnings of a Corbyn government unless you vote Tory will be more prescient than in 2017, when Labour surprised bigly. I think that could be worth 2 or 3 % to the Tories

    Just my tuppence :)

    My guess is that Johnson inspires a lot more visceral dislike among 2017 Labour GE voters than May ever did. That may help nudge Labour upwards. But Corbyn is clearly a millstone around the party’s neck. The Tories need him to stay in place.

    Yes - Johnson is every bit as Marmite as Corbyn - though far more malign and disreputable.
  • noisywinternoisywinter Posts: 249

    Do you expect Boris to bad as much of a disaster on the campaign as May?

    May got 42% in the election. What changed was the Labour vote. That’s the key to all this. Can Labour match Johnson’s claw back of BXP voters? What there is no evidence of so far is the Tories taking 2017 Labour votes. For Johnson to have any degree of confidence of victory that’s what he needs. It’s clearly what he’s after.

    Valid point! Although to an extent the addition of the Labour 2017 vote may to some extent have been a consequence of the Tory campaign

    Also, Corbyn is less popular than in 2017, and has angered remainers

    Also also, warnings of a Corbyn government unless you vote Tory will be more prescient than in 2017, when Labour surprised bigly. I think that could be worth 2 or 3 % to the Tories

    Just my tuppence :)

    My guess is that Johnson inspires a lot more visceral dislike among 2017 Labour GE voters than May ever did. That may help nudge Labour upwards. But Corbyn is clearly a millstone around the party’s neck. The Tories need him to stay in place.

    Agreed!
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    justin124 said:

    Do you expect Boris to bad as much of a disaster on the campaign as May?

    May got 42% in the election. What changed was the Labour vote. That’s the key to all this. Can Labour match Johnson’s claw back of BXP voters? What there is no evidence of so far is the Tories taking 2017 Labour votes. For Johnson to have any degree of confidence of victory that’s what he needs. It’s clearly what he’s after.

    Valid point! Although to an extent the addition of the Labour 2017 vote may to some extent have been a consequence of the Tory campaign

    Also, Corbyn is less popular than in 2017, and has angered remainers

    Also also, warnings of a Corbyn government unless you vote Tory will be more prescient than in 2017, when Labour surprised bigly. I think that could be worth 2 or 3 % to the Tories

    Just my tuppence :)

    My guess is that Johnson inspires a lot more visceral dislike among 2017 Labour GE voters than May ever did. That may help nudge Labour upwards. But Corbyn is clearly a millstone around the party’s neck. The Tories need him to stay in place.

    Yes - Johnson is every bit as Marmite as Corbyn - though far more malign and disreputable.
    Boris is certainly disreputable in some respects. More malign than Corbyn, you jest surely.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    HYUFD said:

    The poll HYUFD kept on posting during the Tory leadership election had the hypothetical Boris-led Conservatives on 32%, so both these polls are disappointing for them.

    Tories on 30% for the first time in months not disappointing at all
    Congratulations HYUFD.

    You called Boris correctly and the 31% is just 1% below your prediction

    We may not agree on everything but credit where it is due
    Indeed, I don't often agree with HYUFD but he got that virtually spot on.

    It will amaze me if 32% isn't hit within the next week or two too.
    It is a sign of how far the Tories have fallen that you’d be cockahoop with 32%.

    My party routinely get c40%, and we’re told that’s rubbish.
    You lost a few Westminster MPs in 2017
    Oh yes, that old peach. Apparently winning 59% of our country’s Westminster seats was a total disaster. Ruth only won 22% of the seats, and was proclaimed victor. Gotta love our objective media.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    ComRes

    Elsewhere in the poll, the public tend to agree that Boris Johnson should have time to deliver Brexit and prefer him to some of his rivals, although a majority believe he will be a terrible PM:

    Almost three quarters agree that he should be given a proper chance to deliver Brexit before any attempt is made by MPs to try to bring the Government down and trigger a General Election (72%);
    Two thirds agree that he will make a better Prime Minister than Jeremy Corbyn (64%) and;
    Three in five disagree that they would prefer to continue having Theresa May as Prime Minister than Boris Johnson (59%) but;
    A majority agree that he will make a terrible Prime Minister (55%).
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    Do you expect Boris to bad as much of a disaster on the campaign as May?

    May got 42% in the election. What changed was the Labour vote. That’s the key to all this. Can Labour match Johnson’s claw back of BXP voters? What there is no evidence of so far is the Tories taking 2017 Labour votes. For Johnson to have any degree of confidence of victory that’s what he needs. It’s clearly what he’s after.

    Valid point! Although to an extent the addition of the Labour 2017 vote may to some extent have been a consequence of the Tory campaign

    Also, Corbyn is less popular than in 2017, and has angered remainers

    Also also, warnings of a Corbyn government unless you vote Tory will be more prescient than in 2017, when Labour surprised bigly. I think that could be worth 2 or 3 % to the Tories

    Just my tuppence :)

    My guess is that Johnson inspires a lot more visceral dislike among 2017 Labour GE voters than May ever did. That may help nudge Labour upwards. But Corbyn is clearly a millstone around the party’s neck. The Tories need him to stay in place.

    Yes - Johnson is every bit as Marmite as Corbyn - though far more malign and disreputable.
    Boris is certainly disreputable in some respects. More malign than Corbyn, you jest surely.
    No - Boris just thinks of himself and gives not a toss about anyone else . We need to look no further than his treatment of Tobias Elwood this week - a far, far better human being than he could ever claim to be - to see what a thoroughly nasty piece of work he really is. A lower form of life indeed.
    Many criticisms can be made of Corbyn - some of which I share - but he does consider others.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    LOL

    So we have three polls showing substantial Boris bounces, but the poll from the firm that showed a large hypothetical Boris bounce... does not.

    Has Johnson been to campaign in Brecon and Radnorshire?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    If this was the GE result my guess is that the Tories would be blown away. Level pegging with Labour and the LDs on 19% spells serious trouble for them.

  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019

    ComRes

    Elsewhere in the poll, the public tend to agree that Boris Johnson should have time to deliver Brexit and prefer him to some of his rivals, although a majority believe he will be a terrible PM:

    Almost three quarters agree that he should be given a proper chance to deliver Brexit before any attempt is made by MPs to try to bring the Government down and trigger a General Election (72%);
    Two thirds agree that he will make a better Prime Minister than Jeremy Corbyn (64%) and;
    Three in five disagree that they would prefer to continue having Theresa May as Prime Minister than Boris Johnson (59%) but;
    A majority agree that he will make a terrible Prime Minister (55%).

    More evidence that Swinson's attempt to Vonc Boris on Thursday was unpopular as well as unsuccessful. She might be a bit inexperienced for these times. Not a good start by her.
  • The trend in these ComRes polls is a bit unfortunate for Johnson, isn't it?

    June 11 (for the Telegraph): CON 37%; LAB 22% (maj. ~140)
    July 8 (for the Telegraph): CON 32%; LAB 25% (maj ~40)
    July 16 (for Britain Elects): CON 32%; LAB 29% (~15 short of a majority)

    And now: CON 28%; LAB 27% (~45 short of a majority)
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    ht tps://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1155229265044103169

    SCon slip to 3rd place (16%), behind SLab (19%).
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Do you expect Boris to bad as much of a disaster on the campaign as May?

    May got 42% in the election. What changed was the Labour vote. That’s the key to all this. Can Labour match Johnson’s claw back of BXP voters? What there is no evidence of so far is the Tories taking 2017 Labour votes. For Johnson to have any degree of confidence of victory that’s what he needs. It’s clearly what he’s after.

    Valid point! Although to an extent the addition of the Labour 2017 vote may to some extent have been a consequence of the Tory campaign

    Also, Corbyn is less popular than in 2017, and has angered remainers

    Also also, warnings of a Corbyn government unless you vote Tory will be more prescient than in 2017, when Labour surprised bigly. I think that could be worth 2 or 3 % to the Tories

    Just my tuppence :)

    My guess is that Johnson inspires a lot more visceral dislike among 2017 Labour GE voters than May ever did. That may help nudge Labour upwards. But Corbyn is clearly a millstone around the party’s neck. The Tories need him to stay in place.

    Yes - Johnson is every bit as Marmite as Corbyn - though far more malign and disreputable.
    Boris is certainly disreputable in some respects. More malign than Corbyn, you jest surely.
    No - Boris just thinks of himself and gives not a toss about anyone else . We need to look no further than his treatment of Tobias Elwood this week - a far, far better human being than he could ever claim to be - to see what a thoroughly nasty piece of work he really is. A lower form of life indeed.
    Many criticisms can be made of Corbyn - some of which I share - but he does consider others.
    Now you are having a laugh. Like he considered the former Labour staffers on Panorama?
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019

    If this was the GE result my guess is that the Tories would be blown away. Level pegging with Labour and the LDs on 19% spells serious trouble for them.

    And your take on YouGov?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    The trend in these ComRes polls is a bit unfortunate for Johnson, isn't it?

    June 11 (for the Telegraph): CON 37%; LAB 22% (maj. ~140)
    July 8 (for the Telegraph): CON 32%; LAB 25% (maj ~40)
    July 16 (for Britain Elects): CON 32%; LAB 29% (~15 short of a majority)

    And now: CON 28%; LAB 27% (~45 short of a majority)

    Shhhh... HY is a psephological genius. Don’t break the magic.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    The trend in these ComRes polls is a bit unfortunate for Johnson, isn't it?

    June 11 (for the Telegraph): CON 37%; LAB 22% (maj. ~140)
    July 8 (for the Telegraph): CON 32%; LAB 25% (maj ~40)
    July 16 (for Britain Elects): CON 32%; LAB 29% (~15 short of a majority)

    And now: CON 28%; LAB 27% (~45 short of a majority)

    The earlier polls listed there were entirely hypothetical though. Some of us did suggest that they were best ignored.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    ComRes

    Elsewhere in the poll, the public tend to agree that Boris Johnson should have time to deliver Brexit and prefer him to some of his rivals, although a majority believe he will be a terrible PM:

    Almost three quarters agree that he should be given a proper chance to deliver Brexit before any attempt is made by MPs to try to bring the Government down and trigger a General Election (72%);
    Two thirds agree that he will make a better Prime Minister than Jeremy Corbyn (64%) and;
    Three in five disagree that they would prefer to continue having Theresa May as Prime Minister than Boris Johnson (59%) but;
    A majority agree that he will make a terrible Prime Minister (55%).

    More evidence that Swinson's attempt to Vonc Boris on Thursday was unpopular as well as unsuccessful. She might be a bit inexperienced for these times. Not a good start by her.
    I
    Told
    You
    So

    Are you still up for it Ed Davey Esq. M.P.? Remain needs you!
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Do you expect Boris to bad as much of a disaster on the campaign as May?

    May got 42% in the election. What changed was the Labour vote. That’s the key to all this. Can Labour match Johnson’s claw back of BXP voters? What there is no evidence of so far is the Tories taking 2017 Labour votes. For Johnson to have any degree of confidence of victory that’s what he needs. It’s clearly what he’s after.

    Valid point! Although to an extent the addition of the Labour 2017 vote may to some extent have been a consequence of the Tory campaign

    Also, Corbyn is less popular than in 2017, and has angered remainers

    Also also, warnings of a Corbyn government unless you vote Tory will be more prescient than in 2017, when Labour surprised bigly. I think that could be worth 2 or 3 % to the Tories

    Just my tuppence :)

    My guess is that Johnson inspires a lot more visceral dislike among 2017 Labour GE voters than May ever did. That may help nudge Labour upwards. But Corbyn is clearly a millstone around the party’s neck. The Tories need him to stay in place.

    Yes - Johnson is every bit as Marmite as Corbyn - though far more malign and disreputable.
    Boris is certainly disreputable in some respects. More malign than Corbyn, you jest surely.
    No - Boris just thinks of himself and gives not a toss about anyone else . We need to look no further than his treatment of Tobias Elwood this week - a far, far better human being than he could ever claim to be - to see what a thoroughly nasty piece of work he really is. A lower form of life indeed.
    Many criticisms can be made of Corbyn - some of which I share - but he does consider others.
    Now you are having a laugh. Like he considered the former Labour staffers on Panorama?
    They did not relate to Corbyn personally.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    If this was the GE result my guess is that the Tories would be blown away. Level pegging with Labour and the LDs on 19% spells serious trouble for them.

    And your take on YouGov?

    Tory win, obviously. As I say below, though, the Tories need to start taking votes from the Labour GE17 coalition before they can be confident of victory. Until that happens they’ll be vulnerable to Labour clawback driven by Johnson’s unpopularity among Remain voters.

  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    Floater said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is planning to almost double the level of tax on thousands of companies across Britain, one of the country's most prominent law firms has warned.

    In a briefing for clients, Herbert Smith Freehills said Labour's economic blueprint includes the equivalent of a corporation tax rate of up to 32 per cent, compared to the 17 per cent rate due to come into force next year.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/27/jeremy-corbyn-planning-almost-double-tax-burden-british-businesses/amp/

    Let's be honest, a corp. tax rate of 32% isn't going to keep any Labour or Labour-leaning voters up at night. Brazil has a corp. tax rate of 34%. India 35%.
    Businesses will be less attracted to these shores with everything that means- you get that right?

    Brexit has done more to deter business investment than anything Corbyn will ever do.
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    edited July 2019
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Do you expect Boris to bad as much of a disaster on the campaign as May?

    May got 42% in the election. What changed was the Labour vote. That’s the key to all this. Can Labour match Johnson’s claw back of BXP voters? What there is no evidence of so far is the Tories taking 2017 Labour votes. For Johnson to have any degree of confidence of victory that’s what he needs. It’s clearly what he’s after.

    Valid point! Although to an extent the addition of the Labour 2017 vote may to some extent have been a consequence of the Tory campaign

    Also, Corbyn is less popular than in 2017, and has angered remainers

    Also also, warnings of a Corbyn government unless you vote Tory will be more prescient than in 2017, when Labour surprised bigly. I think that could be worth 2 or 3 % to the Tories

    Just my tuppence :)

    My guess is that Johnson inspires a lot more visceral dislike among 2017 Labour GE voters than May ever did. That may help nudge Labour upwards. But Corbyn is clearly a millstone around the party’s neck. The Tories need him to stay in place.

    Yes - Johnson is every bit as Marmite as Corbyn - though far more malign and disreputable.
    Boris is certainly disreputable in some respects. More malign than Corbyn, you jest surely.
    No - Boris just thinks of himself and gives not a toss about anyone else . We need to look no further than his treatment of Tobias Elwood this week - a far, far better human being than he could ever claim to be - to see what a thoroughly nasty piece of work he really is. A lower form of life indeed.
    Many criticisms can be made of Corbyn - some of which I share - but he does consider others.
    Now you are having a laugh. Like he considered the former Labour staffers on Panorama?
    They did not relate to Corbyn personally.
    I'm sure you're right. Poor behaviour towards Labour people never relates to Corbyn personally does it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited July 2019
    The former Tory chancellor Philip Hammond held private talks with Labour’s Brexit spokesman Keir Starmer shortly before Boris Johnson entered Downing Street last Wednesday, to plot cross-party moves aimed at preventing the new prime minister agreeing to a no-deal Brexit.

    Hammond plots with Labour to kill Johnson’s no-deal Brexit

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/27/hammond-plots-with-starmer-to-kill-no-deal-brexit
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    HYUFD said:

    The poll HYUFD kept on posting during the Tory leadership election had the hypothetical Boris-led Conservatives on 32%, so both these polls are disappointing for them.

    Tories on 30% for the first time in months not disappointing at all
    Congratulations HYUFD.

    You called Boris correctly and the 31% is just 1% below your prediction

    We may not agree on everything but credit where it is due
    Indeed, I don't often agree with HYUFD but he got that virtually spot on.

    It will amaze me if 32% isn't hit within the next week or two too.
    It is a sign of how far the Tories have fallen that you’d be cockahoop with 32%.

    My party routinely get c40%, and we’re told that’s rubbish.
    You lost a few Westminster MPs in 2017
    Oh yes, that old peach. Apparently winning 59% of our country’s Westminster seats was a total disaster. Ruth only won 22% of the seats, and was proclaimed victor. Gotta love our objective media.
    I didn't say you lost the election, I said you lost "a few MPs".
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Averages of the 4 new polls tonight:

    Con 29.75%
    Lab 25.25%
    LD 18.25%
    BRX 14.50%
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    If this was the GE result my guess is that the Tories would be blown away. Level pegging with Labour and the LDs on 19% spells serious trouble for them.

    It could do. A bit of tactical voting by anti-Tories could deprive them of scores of seats.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    AndyJS said:

    Averages of the 4 new polls tonight:

    Con 29.75%
    Lab 25.25%
    LD 18.25%
    BRX 14.50%

    That must surely put the kibosh on any snap GE? Nowhere near enough of a lead for such a gamble. Labour still ahead of LDs, and, significantly, in all four polls. Which means not much tactical voting, would stifle any Tory majority.
    Same 1234 positions in each poll, too.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    The former Tory chancellor Philip Hammond held private talks with Labour’s Brexit spokesman Keir Starmer shortly before Boris Johnson entered Downing Street last Wednesday, to plot cross-party moves aimed at preventing the new prime minister agreeing to a no-deal Brexit.

    Hammond plots with Labour to kill Johnson’s no-deal Brexit

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/27/hammond-plots-with-starmer-to-kill-no-deal-brexit

    Excellent. Game on!
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    AndyJS said:

    Averages of the 4 new polls tonight:

    Con 29.75%
    Lab 25.25%
    LD 18.25%
    BRX 14.50%

    Baxtered that gives Con +2, Lab -35, LibDem +34, Plaid -1

    I suppose the Independent Tories would be swept away, but it wouldn't be a mandate for no deal.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    dixiedean said:

    AndyJS said:

    Averages of the 4 new polls tonight:

    Con 29.75%
    Lab 25.25%
    LD 18.25%
    BRX 14.50%

    That must surely put the kibosh on any snap GE? Nowhere near enough of a lead for such a gamble. Labour still ahead of LDs, and, significantly, in all four polls. Which means not much tactical voting, would stifle any Tory majority.
    Same 1234 positions in each poll, too.
    I agree, unless the polls continue to shift in the next few days/weeks.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    justin124 said:

    Interesting polls tonight with perhaps Comres yet to come. The switch from Brexit Party to the Tories is hardly surprising. Overall they confirm my expectation of polarisation with the combined two party vote unlikely to fall below 65% in a GE. Still a very clear Yougov house effect. LibDems probably somewhat disappointed re-Swinson bounce.

    With Swinson urging Corbyn to initiate a Vote of No Confifence against the Gov't, she's clearly going to be identified as Labour's key ally both before and after the GE. In such circumstances she can forget all about any bounce in her favour.
    Identifying as Labour’s key ally will damage her in her battle to defeat the SNP in East Dunbartonshire. She is entirely dependent on mass SCon tactical voting to hold the seat.
    I thought that Jo Swinson was actually challenging the Labour leadership to finally stand up to this rotten Tory government and stop being a door mat. She is not identifying the Lib Dems as supporters of the cowardly Labour leaders, but inviting them to join the Lib Dems in confronting this Tory dictatorship. Not much chance that Corbyn and his controllers will do anything of the sort though!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Think worth noting, its schools hols so a lot of people are away / out and about enjoying the sun.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    So what do we call a Boris Bounce that is lower than the Boris Bounce one would expect given that we are talking Boris here and the whole reason he was chosen was to get a Bounce that only he could deliver? I don't know. A slightly underwhelming Boris Bounce?

    What I do know is that he has a mountain to climb if he is to retain power in any pre-Brexit general election. The power of Remainer tactical voting in what is now Remain Nation will be hugely difficult for him to overcome.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    Think worth noting, its schools hols so a lot of people are away / out and about enjoying the sun.

    A fair point, well made. Not up here though. It has been peeing down for 24 hours straight!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490

    The former Tory chancellor Philip Hammond held private talks with Labour’s Brexit spokesman Keir Starmer shortly before Boris Johnson entered Downing Street last Wednesday, to plot cross-party moves aimed at preventing the new prime minister agreeing to a no-deal Brexit.

    Hammond plots with Labour to kill Johnson’s no-deal Brexit

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/27/hammond-plots-with-starmer-to-kill-no-deal-brexit

    Gosh. If that's true, yeesh.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    It looks like a 35% strategy for Johnson. Conservative gains are entirely at the expense of the Brexit Party. There is a potential combined pool of 45% of the vote. A proportion of the Brexit Party vote will presumably remain loyal, hence the 35%. There is no movement in or out of the Con+BP block, although there is movement between parties within the opposition block. Whether 35% will get Johnson the convincing win be is looking for would in that case depend entirely on the distribution of votes within the opposition block.

    (There are many possibilities of those assumptions being overturned, but I think that's the situation right now).
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    kinabalu said:

    So what do we call a Boris Bounce that is lower than the Boris Bounce one would expect given that we are talking Boris here and the whole reason he was chosen was to get a Bounce that only he could deliver? I don't know. A slightly underwhelming Boris Bounce?

    A Boris splat?

    I'm kinda assuming he wants the HoC to block him now, so he can say he "has no choice" but to call an election. Then he can completely steal BXP's thunder with a tell-them-again message, and voila.

    Plenty things can go wrong with that, of course.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    PClipp said:

    justin124 said:

    Interesting polls tonight with perhaps Comres yet to come. The switch from Brexit Party to the Tories is hardly surprising. Overall they confirm my expectation of polarisation with the combined two party vote unlikely to fall below 65% in a GE. Still a very clear Yougov house effect. LibDems probably somewhat disappointed re-Swinson bounce.

    With Swinson urging Corbyn to initiate a Vote of No Confifence against the Gov't, she's clearly going to be identified as Labour's key ally both before and after the GE. In such circumstances she can forget all about any bounce in her favour.
    Identifying as Labour’s key ally will damage her in her battle to defeat the SNP in East Dunbartonshire. She is entirely dependent on mass SCon tactical voting to hold the seat.
    I thought that Jo Swinson was actually challenging the Labour leadership to finally stand up to this rotten Tory government and stop being a door mat. She is not identifying the Lib Dems as supporters of the cowardly Labour leaders, but inviting them to join the Lib Dems in confronting this Tory dictatorship. Not much chance that Corbyn and his controllers will do anything of the sort though!
    Can't agree. Boris has made a lot of promises which I believe to be empty. A VONC now would allow him to continue to peddle bollocks. He deserves the chance to achieve them, or, more likely, land on his backside. Most notably re achieving a revised Deal. Of which, there is no evidence of any kind.
    He needs to be tested in government, not turfed out to plead how wonderful everything would be if only he had a majority.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    As he put the finishing touches to his Cabinet and his first speech, Mr Johnson ordered burgers from Byron.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7293253/Inside-story-Boris-Johnsons-burger-coup.html
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    The poll HYUFD kept on posting during the Tory leadership election had the hypothetical Boris-led Conservatives on 32%, so both these polls are disappointing for them.

    Tories on 30% for the first time in months not disappointing at all
    Congratulations HYUFD.

    You called Boris correctly and the 31% is just 1% below your prediction

    We may not agree on everything but credit where it is due
    Indeed, I don't often agree with HYUFD but he got that virtually spot on.

    It will amaze me if 32% isn't hit within the next week or two too.
    It is a sign of how far the Tories have fallen that you’d be cockahoop with 32%.

    My party routinely get c40%, and we’re told that’s rubbish.
    Who's your party?
    Scottish National Party
    Who?
    Cuckoo
This discussion has been closed.