Mr. Dickson, either that or lots of people overseas regularly say England when they mean Britain or the UK.
Still, I'm amused you have such faith in Trump's political antennae when it comes to the UK.
It wasn’t an accident. Watch the video. He went out of his way to emphasise the term England, which he claimed was a word you don’t hear that often nowadays.
Fascinating. Trump made a very clear point of emphasising England. He has probably had briefings on the way the wind is blowing regarding the Union.
Have you ever been to the US or been in the company of Americans
They always call UK England and to be honest it annoys both my wife and I so much that we correct them whenever we get the chance. It is very apparent on the many cruises we have been on and we do say that we come from the UK and is wrong to refer it as England.
It is fair to make political observations from your own point of view, but on this I disagree with you
Doesn't only happen in the US. As I'm sure Mr Sandpit will agree.
Well I’ve never voted for the winning candidate in the constituency, my first time was voting for Sir Irvine Patnick in 1997. 20 years later I voted for Nick Clegg. I think the Lib Dems will pay me to vote Labour.
Fascinating. Trump made a very clear point of emphasising England. He has probably had briefings on the way the wind is blowing regarding the Union.
Have you ever been to the US or been in the company of Americans
They always call UK England and to be honest it annoys both my wife and I so much that we correct them whenever we get the chance. It is very apparent on the many cruises we have been on and we do say that we come from the UK and is wrong to refer it as England.
It is fair to make political observations from your own point of view, but on this I disagree with you
Doesn't only happen in the US. As I'm sure Mr Sandpit will agree.
Very fair point.
My wife and I have travelled the seven seas on many occasions over the last 15 years and it is very common throughout the world
Fascinating. Trump made a very clear point of emphasising England. He has probably had briefings on the way the wind is blowing regarding the Union.
He probably just had a briefing to try to knock into his thick skull what the "pieces" of the UK were - and perhaps even the difference between the UK and GB - and just about managed to remember one of those pieces of information (with difficulty).
His mother was Scottish and he spends a lot of time in Scotland. I think it highly unlikely that he is unaware of the difficulties the Union is in.
Many years ago a First Minister (Jack McConnell?) appointed Trump an Ambassador for Scotland. He was forever turning up at Tartan Days etc
By-election in Sheffield Hallam expected later this year. Should be an easy LD gain.
Haven't the LD's got a candidate lined up?
Sir Nicholas Peter William Clegg, that shalt be prime minister in a government of national unity hereafter ....
Maybe not.
He's not coming back anytime soon.
So my first post for a very long while. Just how is there going to be a general election before 31st October for Nick Palmer's scenarios? I feel a constitutional expert needs to rewrite the flow charts...
1) Boris isn't going to call an election before 31st October. If however he does and gets parliament to agree (unlikely as it needs 2/3 majority) then he stays as PM until the election. He gets to choose the election date and can easily postpone it beyond Brexit.
2) Boris controls any recall of parliament. It's not in the speaker's gift. So no recall to make things happen any earlier than 4th September. If Iran decides to do something stupid for example which might indicate a recall Boris will wrap himself in the flag and get even more powerful.
3) How is a vote of no confidence going to happen and then see the formation of an alternative government which stops Brexit ? Corbyn will be asked to try to form a government first. Can you see Corbyn missing out on the chance to become PM? But he doesn't have the votes without all the LDs and all the SNP and a few others. So Corbyn fails.
To get a majority Corbyn will have to be replaced by Starmer or similar - doesn't that require some form of labour party election ? I can't see Starmer being elected unopposed, they'll be some form of momentum backed candidate.
If not Labour, then who else ? Swinson ? Can't see many labour or the tories supporting the anti-democrat she's turning out to be (Labour hate her with a passion for her support of the 2010 government) And her disdain for democracy - "I'll ignore the result of a second referendum if people vote leave" will make her total poison for all leavers and quite a few democratic remainers.
All this has to be done in 14 days in the midst of party conference season. Good luck with that. Boris remains PM and continues with executive authority until the automatic election - after Brexit.
Well I’ve never voted for the winning candidate in the constituency, my first time was voting for Sir Irvine Patnick in 1997. 20 years later I voted for Nick Clegg. I think the Lib Dems will pay me to vote Labour.
Labour to come 4th behind the Greens?
I wouldn’t rule out a pact between the Lib Dems and the Greens.
The Lib Dems could offer to withdraw from Sheffield central.
Lib Dems being remarkably lucky in the By-Elections that are happening, Brecon and now apparently Sheffield Hallam. Of course the Brexit Party was also lucky in getting Peterborough, I suppose ;-).
You make your own luck, to a large extent. The 16% or so Lab-LD and Con-LD swings nationally since 2017 bring a lot of seats into play for them - all the more so given that you usually get a by-election magnifier effect.
In fact, Hallam isn't all that lucky for the LDs - it's a seat they'd have stood a good chance of winning at any time this parliament.
By-election in Sheffield Hallam expected later this year. Should be an easy LD gain.
Haven't the LD's got a candidate lined up?
Sir Nicholas Peter William Clegg, that shalt be prime minister in a government of national unity hereafter ....
Maybe not.
He's not coming back anytime soon.
So my first post for a very long while. Just how is there going to be a general election before 31st October for Nick Palmer's scenarios? I feel a constitutional expert needs to rewrite the flow charts...
1) Boris isn't going to call an election before 31st October. If however he does and gets parliament to agree (unlikely as it needs 2/3 majority) then he stays as PM until the election. He gets to choose the election date and can easily postpone it beyond Brexit.
2) Boris controls any recall of parliament. It's not in the speaker's gift. So no recall to make things happen any earlier than 4th September. If Iran decides to do something stupid for example which might indicate a recall Boris will wrap himself in the flag and get even more powerful.
3) How is a vote of no confidence going to happen and then see the formation of an alternative government which stops Brexit ? Corbyn will be asked to try to form a government first. Can you see Corbyn missing out on the chance to become PM? But he doesn't have the votes without all the LDs and all the SNP and a few others. So Corbyn fails.
To get a majority Corbyn will have to be replaced by Starmer or similar - doesn't that require some form of labour party election ? I can't see Starmer being elected unopposed, they'll be some form of momentum backed candidate.
If not Labour, then who else ? Swinson ? Can't see many labour or the tories supporting the anti-democrat she's turning out to be (Labour hate her with a passion for her support of the 2010 government) And her disdain for democracy - "I'll ignore the result of a second referendum" will make her total poison for all leavers and quite a few democratic remainers.
All this has to be done in 14 days in the midst of party conference season. Good luck with that. Boris remains PM and continues with executive authority until the automatic election - after Brexit.
I can see two potentially tolerable Brexit outcomes, both ultimately driven by boredom and fed-upness.
The first, more likely, outcome is CU+SM+VAT area Soft Brexit/Vassal State. Everyone knows it's worse than what we had before but no-one has the energy any more to do anything about it.
The second less likely but actually more sensible outcome is to realise that absent a plan, the UK is nowhere near ready to Brexit, so revoke for now and set up a whole range of commissions to work out that plan. Punt Brexit to the long grass, essentially. British voters will need a bigger shock than it has had so far to contemplate that plan, but if Johnson fails in his do our die push this may happen.
I don't see any other stable or desirable outcomes.
Well I’ve never voted for the winning candidate in the constituency, my first time was voting for Sir Irvine Patnick in 1997. 20 years later I voted for Nick Clegg. I think the Lib Dems will pay me to vote Labour.
Labour to come 4th behind the Greens?
I wouldn’t rule out a pact between the Lib Dems and the Greens.
The Lib Dems could offer to withdraw from Sheffield central.
Would Oliver Coppard Labour's 2015 candidate be a potential runner here? He ran a pretty effective campaign against Clegg. Edit - Apparently Labour already has a candidate.
Well I’ve never voted for the winning candidate in the constituency, my first time was voting for Sir Irvine Patnick in 1997. 20 years later I voted for Nick Clegg. I think the Lib Dems will pay me to vote Labour.
Labour to come 4th behind the Greens?
Surely Greens will do a deal with LibDems? Remain alliance and all that.
Well, it is interesting to compare the sanctimonious pronouncements by the LibDems on mental health ....
.... with what they actually do when confronted with someone who is not well & needs space for medical help.
It's possible both to feel sympathy for his mental health issues and to note that he's been taking the salary whilst leaving his constituents effectively unrepresented for some considerable time now. It's also possible to have sympathy for members of his own staff and others to whom he has quite clearly been threatening and abusive.
It's also worth noting that, although mental health issues of the sort Jared O'Mara appears to have been experiencing could explain some of his extreme behaviour on individual occasions, he'll almost certainly have had ups and downs. At any time in the ups, he could and really should have reflected on whether it was fair to others to continue in the role.
Finally, it's pretty clearly in the man's interests himself to get out of the situation (that's what will give him space for medical help as you put it), so there's some relief all round that he appears to have decided to do so.
I just note very little sympathy from the LibDems about someone with mental health issues -- & much cackling about by-elections.
Similar, the exTory MP for Brecon & Radnorshire is little crook who over-claimed a few hundred pounds, whereas Sir Nick the Millionaire has just claimed £115,000 from the public purse for expenses since losing his seat!
What if we leave (deal or no deal) pre-election. Then none of these scenarios come into play.
It seems sensibly enough written other than that though I'm sure NP just loves being patronised by me.
No reason why we shouldn't patronise each other, comrade . Seriously, thanks, and you're right. I just don't see that as very likely. There evidently won't be a deal before October, or apparently even a negotiation. Boris can't reintroduce the existing WA deal - he'd be lynched by his own side. Nor, in my view, can he get No Deal through the current Parliament, except by jiggery-pokery (proroguing and all that) which really would make some Tories feel he was Worse Than Corbyn - "even Corbyn isn't proposing to suspend Parliament to get his ideas through" and would lead directly to a VONC that actually had a majority.
Labour's clearly in a bad place and I don't expect the latest polls tonight to show us as more than competitive with the others. But I'm not sure the LibDem and Brexit strength will translate into enough seats to make either of them rival the old big 2. There will be lots of places where it's obviously a Con-Lab marginal and LibDem organisation is almost non-existent. A LibDem friend lives in Croydon Central - she is vehemently anti-Corbyn and even more anti-Boris. She would love to vote LibDem, but they got 1.9% last time, and she feels she'll have to vote Labour as even potentially stopping Brexit taking priority. She won't be alone.
Mr. Dickson, either that or lots of people overseas regularly say England when they mean Britain or the UK.
There's also a fair amount of people who do it in England..er..Britain.
No there's not. Maybe, as a self-pitying Scot, you think there is in your head.
Maybe as a grovelling unionist you don't notice it.
I've spent many years in England and have never once did an English person confuse England/Britain but heh maybe they were just being well behaved in front of me.
What if we leave (deal or no deal) pre-election. Then none of these scenarios come into play.
It seems sensibly enough written other than that though I'm sure NP just loves being patronised by me.
No reason why we shouldn't patronise each other, comrade . Seriously, thanks, and you're right. I just don't see that as very likely. There evidently won't be a deal before October, or apparently even a negotiation. Boris can't reintroduce the existing WA deal - he'd be lynched by his own side. Nor, in my view, can he get No Deal through the current Parliament, except by jiggery-pokery (proroguing and all that) which really would make some Tories feel he was Worse Than Corbyn - "even Corbyn isn't proposing to suspend Parliament to get his ideas through" and would lead directly to a VONC that actually had a majority.
Labour's clearly in a bad place and I don't expect the latest polls tonight to show us as more than competitive with the others. But I'm not sure the LibDem and Brexit strength will translate into enough seats to make either of them rival the old big 2. There will be lots of places where it's obviously a Con-Lab marginal and LibDem organisation is almost non-existent. A LibDem friend lives in Croydon Central - she is vehemently anti-Corbyn and even more anti-Boris. She would love to vote LibDem, but they got 1.9% last time, and she feels she'll have to vote Labour as even potentially stopping Brexit taking priority. She won't be alone.
I'm in the exact same boat - so it's a Labour vote at the next election as the others haven't a chance.
What if we leave (deal or no deal) pre-election. Then none of these scenarios come into play.
It seems sensibly enough written other than that though I'm sure NP just loves being patronised by me.
No reason why we shouldn't patronise each other, comrade . Seriously, thanks, and you're right. I just don't see that as very likely. There evidently won't be a deal before October, or apparently even a negotiation. Boris can't reintroduce the existing WA deal - he'd be lynched by his own side. Nor, in my view, can he get No Deal through the current Parliament, except by jiggery-pokery (proroguing and all that) which really would make some Tories feel he was Worse Than Corbyn - "even Corbyn isn't proposing to suspend Parliament to get his ideas through" and would lead directly to a VONC that actually had a majority.
Labour's clearly in a bad place and I don't expect the latest polls tonight to show us as more than competitive with the others. But I'm not sure the LibDem and Brexit strength will translate into enough seats to make either of them rival the old big 2. There will be lots of places where it's obviously a Con-Lab marginal and LibDem organisation is almost non-existent. A LibDem friend lives in Croydon Central - she is vehemently anti-Corbyn and even more anti-Boris. She would love to vote LibDem, but they got 1.9% last time, and she feels she'll have to vote Labour as even potentially stopping Brexit taking priority. She won't be alone.
Thanks for the response Nick - I've just had a wee flutter on no deal '19 which I think makes it a 33pc chance.
Well I’ve never voted for the winning candidate in the constituency, my first time was voting for Sir Irvine Patnick in 1997. 20 years later I voted for Nick Clegg. I think the Lib Dems will pay me to vote Labour.
Labour to come 4th behind the Greens?
I wouldn’t rule out a pact between the Lib Dems and the Greens.
The Lib Dems could offer to withdraw from Sheffield central.
Would Oliver Coppard Labour's 2015 candidate be a potential runner here? He ran a pretty effective campaign against Clegg. Edit - Apparently Labour already has a candidate.
I doubt it's going to matter much who the Labour candidate is.
Those arrested from essex, time to build a wall and make them pay for it.
Sadly Chigwell is indeed part of Essex and the idiots can't be disowned. However how anyone can go a cruise ship and expect to avoid people in what appears to be fancy dress is a mystery.
I just note very little sympathy from the LibDems about someone with mental health issues -- & much cackling about by-elections.
Similar, the exTory MP for Brecon & Radnorshire is little crook who over-claimed a few hundred pounds, whereas Sir Nick the Millionaire has just claimed £115,000 from the public purse for expenses since losing his seat!
Yes, as through this world I've wandered I've seen lots of funny men; Some will rob you with a six-gun, And some with a fountain pen.
Nick's fountain pen has been busy signing all those expense claims.
Perhaps the LibDems are not best placed to cackle about Chris Davies?
Carry on Cackling, though.
There's a pretty clear difference between a legitimate, lawful expenses claim, and a forgery.
You can argue that the particular office and secretarial allowance should not have been made available to Clegg post-2015. But, given it was, I fail to see what is wrong in him making a lawful claim for expenses actually incurred. And nobody has ever suggested that it went to Clegg personally rather than paying for a larger office to carry on his work than he'd otherwise have had.
I do, incidentally, feel a modicum of sympathy for Davies. He didn't forge receipts for personal gain but to cut through what he saw as red tape. The trouble, though, is that he did forge them which is clear criminal dishonesty even if the motive was a fractionally easier life rather than financial gain. In other words, he's a dishonest idiot rather than a dishonest fraudster.
What if we leave (deal or no deal) pre-election. Then none of these scenarios come into play.
It seems sensibly enough written other than that though I'm sure NP just loves being patronised by me.
No reason why we shouldn't patronise each other, comrade . Seriously, thanks, and you're right. I just don't see that as very likely. There evidently won't be a deal before October, or apparently even a negotiation. Boris can't reintroduce the existing WA deal - he'd be lynched by his own side. Nor, in my view, can he get No Deal through the current Parliament, except by jiggery-pokery (proroguing and all that) which really would make some Tories feel he was Worse Than Corbyn - "even Corbyn isn't proposing to suspend Parliament to get his ideas through" and would lead directly to a VONC that actually had a majority.
Labour's clearly in a bad place and I don't expect the latest polls tonight to show us as more than competitive with the others. But I'm not sure the LibDem and Brexit strength will translate into enough seats to make either of them rival the old big 2. There will be lots of places where it's obviously a Con-Lab marginal and LibDem organisation is almost non-existent. A LibDem friend lives in Croydon Central - she is vehemently anti-Corbyn and even more anti-Boris. She would love to vote LibDem, but they got 1.9% last time, and she feels she'll have to vote Labour as even potentially stopping Brexit taking priority. She won't be alone.
I'm in the exact same boat - so it's a Labour vote at the next election as the others haven't a chance.
I would wait and see before deciding whether to vote tactically. Seats that are on paper Con-Lab marginals where no other party stands a chance could suddenly become four-way marginals if the Brexit Party splits the Leave vote.
Well I’ve never voted for the winning candidate in the constituency, my first time was voting for Sir Irvine Patnick in 1997. 20 years later I voted for Nick Clegg. I think the Lib Dems will pay me to vote Labour.
Labour to come 4th behind the Greens?
Surely Greens will do a deal with LibDems? Remain alliance and all that.
The LDs should win easily without a pact. No need for one IMO.
The weird thing about this that there are basically no good scenarios in there for Labour, whereas if Jeremy Corbyn stopped being leader there would be several. And yet Labour members still somehow seem to think it's a good idea for Jeremy Corybn to carry on being their leader.
I think you have to wonder if the sheer pressure of the political logic will suddenly make the tectonic plates move. What's keeping Corbyn in place is tribal identification but this is basically a schelling point: Jeremy Corbyn has to be protected by the tribe, because Jeremy Corbyn is the representative of the tribe, and he's representing the tribe because they're protecting him. There's nothing keeping the tribe keeping him in place except inertia.
As it happens I’ve just finished a good book on geology (“a crack in the earth” by Simon Winchester)
Tectonic plates is a good analogy. For a long time there is stasis despite everyone predicting an earthquake. All this time the pressure builds unseen. And then suddenly there is a huge change as that pressure is released in a single moment.
Why is his head on upside down? Why has he got three eyes? WHY HAS HE GOT THREE EYES?
[runs away screaming]
Now we know what he has been doing whilst away from Parliament.
He's been warging.
Have we factored in a scanario where an embittered former denizen of Wester-minster brings down dragon-fire on the Houses of Parliament? (To be fair, pb.com has recently considered even more far-fetched scenarios with a stern stroking of the beard....)
Fascinating. Trump made a very clear point of emphasising England. He has probably had briefings on the way the wind is blowing regarding the Union.
Have you ever been to the US or been in the company of Americans
They always call UK England and to be honest it annoys both my wife and I so much that we correct them whenever we get the chance. It is very apparent on the many cruises we have been on and we do say that we come from the UK and is wrong to refer it as England.
It is fair to make political observations from your own point of view, but on this I disagree with you
Do they intend to cause offence by saying England instead of the UK? Probably not. If offence isn't intended, I think it's wrong to take offence. (And quite often, even if offence is intended, is best to ignore it rather than getting offended).
Most English people wouldn't get offended if a foreigner accidentally called them Scottish, Welsh or Irish. So why do some people from those three countries get offended to be accidentally described as English?
Well I’ve never voted for the winning candidate in the constituency, my first time was voting for Sir Irvine Patnick in 1997. 20 years later I voted for Nick Clegg. I think the Lib Dems will pay me to vote Labour.
Labour to come 4th behind the Greens?
I wouldn’t rule out a pact between the Lib Dems and the Greens.
The Lib Dems could offer to withdraw from Sheffield central.
Would Oliver Coppard Labour's 2015 candidate be a potential runner here? He ran a pretty effective campaign against Clegg. Edit - Apparently Labour already has a candidate.
Oliver Coppard (who is Jewish himself) has also spoken out over antisemitism in Labour, and confirmed he'd not be standing for Parliament for Labour again (at least under current management) on that basis.
What if we leave (deal or no deal) pre-election. Then none of these scenarios come into play.
It seems sensibly enough written other than that though I'm sure NP just loves being patronised by me.
No reason why we shouldn't patronise each other, comrade . Seriously, thanks, and you're right. I just don't see that as very likely. There evidently won't be a deal before October, or apparently even a negotiation. Boris can't reintroduce the existing WA deal - he'd be lynched by his own side. Nor, in my view, can he get No Deal through the current Parliament, except by jiggery-pokery (proroguing and all that) which really would make some Tories feel he was Worse Than Corbyn - "even Corbyn isn't proposing to suspend Parliament to get his ideas through" and would lead directly to a VONC that actually had a majority.
Labour's clearly in a bad place and I don't expect the latest polls tonight to show us as more than competitive with the others. But I'm not sure the LibDem and Brexit strength will translate into enough seats to make either of them rival the old big 2. There will be lots of places where it's obviously a Con-Lab marginal and LibDem organisation is almost non-existent. A LibDem friend lives in Croydon Central - she is vehemently anti-Corbyn and even more anti-Boris. She would love to vote LibDem, but they got 1.9% last time, and she feels she'll have to vote Labour as even potentially stopping Brexit taking priority. She won't be alone.
I'm in the exact same boat - so it's a Labour vote at the next election as the others haven't a chance.
I would wait and see before deciding whether to vote tactically. Seats that are on paper Con-Lab marginals where no other party stands a chance could suddenly become four-way marginals if the Brexit Party splits the Leave vote.
In 2017 - Labour got 51%, Tories 43%, UKIP 2.6% and the Lib Dems 2.3% Even in 2010
Now I probably won't sprint to vote my postal vote but I can't see the Lib Dems winning the seat...
Sheffield Hallam MP to resign in September according to BBC text.
Really he should resign now to ensure a by election in september.
And give up 6 weeks pay?
How could he resign now? Parliament isn't seating and needs to be for him to be appointed to the appropriate role...
No it doesn't. It needs to be sitting for the writ to be moved for the by-election, but not for him to be appointed Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds and thus cease to be an MP immediately (I think it's the turn of that one rather than Newstead).
To apply for the Stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds, he'd need to write to Sajid Javid as Chancellor, and Javid would need to sign a form. No involvement for House of Commons at all.
Sheffield Hallam MP to resign in September according to BBC text.
Really he should resign now to ensure a by election in september.
And give up 6 weeks pay?
How could he resign now? Parliament isn't seating and needs to be for him to be appointed to the appropriate role...
No it doesn't. It needs to be sitting for the writ to be moved for the by-election, but not for him to be appointed Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds and thus cease to be an MP immediately (I think it's the turn of that one rather than Newstead).
Yes, I did wonder about that too. Is this actually a stalling for time?
Sheffield Hallam MP to resign in September according to BBC text.
Really he should resign now to ensure a by election in september.
And give up 6 weeks pay?
How could he resign now? Parliament isn't seating and needs to be for him to be appointed to the appropriate role...
No it doesn't. It needs to be sitting for the writ to be moved for the by-election, but not for him to be appointed Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds and thus cease to be an MP immediately (I think it's the turn of that one rather than Newstead).
Yes, I did wonder about that too. Is this actually a stalling for time?
I remember someone suggesting that the Speaker can move writs while parliament isn't sitting? Can anyone confirm that?
Sheffield Hallam MP to resign in September according to BBC text.
Really he should resign now to ensure a by election in september.
And give up 6 weeks pay?
How could he resign now? Parliament isn't seating and needs to be for him to be appointed to the appropriate role...
No it doesn't. It needs to be sitting for the writ to be moved for the by-election, but not for him to be appointed Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds and thus cease to be an MP immediately (I think it's the turn of that one rather than Newstead).
Yes, I did wonder about that too. Is this actually a stalling for time?
It would not surprise me one bit if he changed his mind. And it is six weeks additional pay in any event. As I say, a simple letter saying "Dear Sajid, I hereby apply for Stewardship for the Chiltern Hundreds. Yours etc, Jared" is the full extent of what is needed.
Sheffield Hallam MP to resign in September according to BBC text.
Really he should resign now to ensure a by election in september.
And give up 6 weeks pay?
How could he resign now? Parliament isn't seating and needs to be for him to be appointed to the appropriate role...
No it doesn't. It needs to be sitting for the writ to be moved for the by-election, but not for him to be appointed Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds and thus cease to be an MP immediately (I think it's the turn of that one rather than Newstead).
Yes, I did wonder about that too. Is this actually a stalling for time?
I remember someone suggesting that the Speaker can move writs while parliament isn't sitting? Can anyone confirm that?
Well I’ve never voted for the winning candidate in the constituency, my first time was voting for Sir Irvine Patnick in 1997. 20 years later I voted for Nick Clegg. I think the Lib Dems will pay me to vote Labour.
Labour to come 4th behind the Greens?
Surely Greens will do a deal with LibDems? Remain alliance and all that.
The LDs should win easily without a pact. No need for one IMO.
Correct. Indeed, agreeing to a pact would signal weakness.
You can argue that the particular office and secretarial allowance should not have been made available to Clegg post-2015. But, given it was, I fail to see what is wrong in him making a lawful claim for expenses actually incurred. And nobody has ever suggested that it went to Clegg personally rather than paying for a larger office to carry on his work than he'd otherwise have had.
.
Somehow, my opinion of him might be higher if he had stopped short of doing something that was technically within his rights.
Still, he is a fantastic advert for the LibDems, as he now lies professionally for Facebook.
Remind me, how much tax does Facebook pay? Enough to pay Nick Clegg's expense claims?
Sheffield Hallam MP to resign in September according to BBC text.
Really he should resign now to ensure a by election in september.
And give up 6 weeks pay?
How could he resign now? Parliament isn't seating and needs to be for him to be appointed to the appropriate role...
No it doesn't. It needs to be sitting for the writ to be moved for the by-election, but not for him to be appointed Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds and thus cease to be an MP immediately (I think it's the turn of that one rather than Newstead).
Yes, I did wonder about that too. Is this actually a stalling for time?
I remember someone suggesting that the Speaker can move writs while parliament isn't sitting? Can anyone confirm that?
No, he can't.
Instead, he announced it after Parliament stops sitting - so he can have a few more weeks suckling the public teat.
What if we leave (deal or no deal) pre-election. Then none of these scenarios come into play.
It seems sensibly enough written other than that though I'm sure NP just loves being patronised by me.
No reason why we shouldn't patronise each other, comrade . Seriously, thanks, and you're right. I just don't see that as very likely. There evidently won't be a deal before October, or apparently even a negotiation. Boris can't reintroduce the existing WA deal - he'd be lynched by his own side. Nor, in my view, can he get No Deal through the current Parliament, except by jiggery-pokery (proroguing and all that) which really would make some Tories feel he was Worse Than Corbyn - "even Corbyn isn't proposing to suspend Parliament to get his ideas through" and would lead directly to a VONC that actually had a majority.
Labour's clearly in a bad place and I don't expect the latest polls tonight to show us as more than competitive with the others. But I'm not sure the LibDem and Brexit strength will translate into enough seats to make either of them rival the old big 2. There will be lots of places where it's obviously a Con-Lab marginal and LibDem organisation is almost non-existent. A LibDem friend lives in Croydon Central - she is vehemently anti-Corbyn and even more anti-Boris. She would love to vote LibDem, but they got 1.9% last time, and she feels she'll have to vote Labour as even potentially stopping Brexit taking priority. She won't be alone.
I disagree with you comprehensively, but it’s not personal as so many people talking up an election I disagree with all of you. The whole point in calling an election unnecessarily early is to leave you in a stronger position. There is nothing to suggest that will be the outcome. Even to get round Brexit difficulties, an election doesn’t do that, it’s better to keep yourself in power trying options than throw yourself out. More convincing are the policy announcements, more police in two years to prove you are not all talk but deliver, they are clearly playing the long game taking this parliament to the end unless polling really suggests strong position.
Also I don’t think achieving a brexit by 31st Oct is going to be that difficult. Mays problem with bridging the gap was the run up she took to it, keeping DUP and her own party in the dark till she told them what they would be voting for. BoJos run and jump to a similar gap will be completely different, ERG on board in negotiations around backstop in order to enter transition by declaring a brexit that hasn’t happened. This governments here to stay.
You can argue that the particular office and secretarial allowance should not have been made available to Clegg post-2015. But, given it was, I fail to see what is wrong in him making a lawful claim for expenses actually incurred. And nobody has ever suggested that it went to Clegg personally rather than paying for a larger office to carry on his work than he'd otherwise have had.
.
Somehow, my opinion of him might be higher if he had stopped short of doing something that was technically within his rights.
Still, he is a fantastic advert for the LibDems, as he now lies professionally for Facebook.
Remind me, how much tax does Facebook pay? Enough to pay Nick Clegg's expense claims?
Probably a lot more in Employers National Insurance and from the employee taxes than it does in a lot of other EU countries.
Yes - it probably should be a lot more but no-one has worked out how to tax global corporations locally yet..
Sheffield Hallam MP to resign in September according to BBC text.
Really he should resign now to ensure a by election in september.
And give up 6 weeks pay?
How could he resign now? Parliament isn't seating and needs to be for him to be appointed to the appropriate role...
No it doesn't. It needs to be sitting for the writ to be moved for the by-election, but not for him to be appointed Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds and thus cease to be an MP immediately (I think it's the turn of that one rather than Newstead).
Yes, I did wonder about that too. Is this actually a stalling for time?
I remember someone suggesting that the Speaker can move writs while parliament isn't sitting? Can anyone confirm that?
No, he can't.
Instead, he announced it after Parliament stops sitting - so he can have a few more weeks suckling the public teat.
Classy guy in a classy party.
As I say, whilst the writ cannot be moved, he can easily resign as an MP with immediate effect, recess or not.
The writ for a new election is moved in the Commons, but all that is required for him to vacate the seat (which is a different thing) is to write a short letter to Sajid Javid.
Sheffield Hallam MP to resign in September according to BBC text.
Really he should resign now to ensure a by election in september.
And give up 6 weeks pay?
How could he resign now? Parliament isn't seating and needs to be for him to be appointed to the appropriate role...
No it doesn't. It needs to be sitting for the writ to be moved for the by-election, but not for him to be appointed Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds and thus cease to be an MP immediately (I think it's the turn of that one rather than Newstead).
Yes, I did wonder about that too. Is this actually a stalling for time?
I remember someone suggesting that the Speaker can move writs while parliament isn't sitting? Can anyone confirm that?
No, he can't.
Instead, he announced it after Parliament stops sitting - so he can have a few more weeks suckling the public teat.
Classy guy in a classy party.
Except the Speaker is not involved in this process. He could resign immediately.
You can argue that the particular office and secretarial allowance should not have been made available to Clegg post-2015. But, given it was, I fail to see what is wrong in him making a lawful claim for expenses actually incurred. And nobody has ever suggested that it went to Clegg personally rather than paying for a larger office to carry on his work than he'd otherwise have had.
.
Somehow, my opinion of him might be higher if he had stopped short of doing something that was technically within his rights.
Still, he is a fantastic advert for the LibDems, as he now lies professionally for Facebook.
Remind me, how much tax does Facebook pay? Enough to pay Nick Clegg's expense claims?
Probably a lot more in Employers National Insurance and from the employee taxes than it does in a lot of other EU countries.
Yes - it probably should be a lot more but no-one has worked out how to tax global corporations locally yet..
My point is that Nick Clegg did not need to accept a job with Facebook.
Nick Palmer is an ex-MP. He is not working for a tax-avoiding multinational.
You can argue that the particular office and secretarial allowance should not have been made available to Clegg post-2015. But, given it was, I fail to see what is wrong in him making a lawful claim for expenses actually incurred. And nobody has ever suggested that it went to Clegg personally rather than paying for a larger office to carry on his work than he'd otherwise have had.
.
Somehow, my opinion of him might be higher if he had stopped short of doing something that was technically within his rights.
Still, he is a fantastic advert for the LibDems, as he now lies professionally for Facebook.
Remind me, how much tax does Facebook pay? Enough to pay Nick Clegg's expense claims?
Probably a lot more in Employers National Insurance and from the employee taxes than it does in a lot of other EU countries.
Yes - it probably should be a lot more but no-one has worked out how to tax global corporations locally yet..
My point is that Nick Clegg did not need to accept a job with Facebook.
Nick Palmer is an ex-MP. He is not working for a tax-avoiding multinational.
It is a person's right to legally minimise the tax they pay.
Fascinating. Trump made a very clear point of emphasising England. He has probably had briefings on the way the wind is blowing regarding the Union.
Have you ever been to the US or been in the company of Americans
They always call UK England and to be honest it annoys both my wife and I so much that we correct them whenever we get the chance. It is very apparent on the many cruises we have been on and we do say that we come from the UK and is wrong to refer it as England.
It is fair to make political observations from your own point of view, but on this I disagree with you
Do they intend to cause offence by saying England instead of the UK? Probably not. If offence isn't intended, I think it's wrong to take offence. (And quite often, even if offence is intended, is best to ignore it rather than getting offended).
Most English people wouldn't get offended if a foreigner accidentally called them Scottish, Welsh or Irish. So why do some people from those three countries get offended to be accidentally described as English?
Because my wife is a Scot and I am half Welsh and we are proud of the Union.
We both object to being called English and try to explain it in a respectful manner
The already piss poor powers of Unionist dialectic have really gone downhill in the last few years. I'm assuming that the inherent contradictions of the Brexit that you've imposed on all of us has really ramped up the stoopid.
Thank God O'Mara is resigning, will sort out the democratic deficit the people of Sheffield Hallam have suffered for the last 2 years. Easy Lib Dem gain.
The weird thing about this that there are basically no good scenarios in there for Labour, whereas if Jeremy Corbyn stopped being leader there would be several. And yet Labour members still somehow seem to think it's a good idea for Jeremy Corybn to carry on being their leader.
I think you have to wonder if the sheer pressure of the political logic will suddenly make the tectonic plates move. What's keeping Corbyn in place is tribal identification but this is basically a schelling point: Jeremy Corbyn has to be protected by the tribe, because Jeremy Corbyn is the representative of the tribe, and he's representing the tribe because they're protecting him. There's nothing keeping the tribe keeping him in place except inertia.
As it happens I’ve just finished a good book on geology (“a crack in the earth” by Simon Winchester)
Tectonic plates is a good analogy. For a long time there is stasis despite everyone predicting an earthquake. All this time the pressure builds unseen. And then suddenly there is a huge change as that pressure is released in a single moment.
Do you mean "A Crack in the Edge of the World", about the Great Californian Earthquake? He's written a few that touch on geology.
His latest book, 'Exactly', is absolutely stonkingly brilliant. Perhaps this is stupid of me, but I'd never really considered the difference between the meanings of 'Precise' and Accurate' in quite the right way before I read that book.
You can argue that the particular office and secretarial allowance should not have been made available to Clegg post-2015. But, given it was, I fail to see what is wrong in him making a lawful claim for expenses actually incurred. And nobody has ever suggested that it went to Clegg personally rather than paying for a larger office to carry on his work than he'd otherwise have had.
.
Somehow, my opinion of him might be higher if he had stopped short of doing something that was technically within his rights.
Still, he is a fantastic advert for the LibDems, as he now lies professionally for Facebook.
Remind me, how much tax does Facebook pay? Enough to pay Nick Clegg's expense claims?
Probably a lot more in Employers National Insurance and from the employee taxes than it does in a lot of other EU countries.
Yes - it probably should be a lot more but no-one has worked out how to tax global corporations locally yet..
Easier perhaps for supra-national organisations like the EU to do that than a medium sized nation-state like the UK, of course.
Sheffield Hallam MP to resign in September according to BBC text.
Really he should resign now to ensure a by election in september.
And give up 6 weeks pay?
How could he resign now? Parliament isn't seating and needs to be for him to be appointed to the appropriate role...
No it doesn't. It needs to be sitting for the writ to be moved for the by-election, but not for him to be appointed Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds and thus cease to be an MP immediately (I think it's the turn of that one rather than Newstead).
Yes, I did wonder about that too. Is this actually a stalling for time?
I remember someone suggesting that the Speaker can move writs while parliament isn't sitting? Can anyone confirm that?
No, he can't.
OK, fair enough. Genuinely didn't know, which was why I was putting it out there. Thanks.
The already piss poor powers of Unionist dialectic have really gone downhill in the last few years. I'm assuming that the inherent contradictions of the Brexit that you've imposed on all of us has really ramped up the stoopid.
Well I looked up Dialectic cus I'd only heard of the marx version.
Thank God O'Mara is resigning, will sort out the democratic deficit the people of Sheffield Hallam have suffered for the last 2 years. Easy Lib Dem gain.
It's their fault for voting for him. (Well, the fault of 20,000-odd of them).
An unvetted candidate, entirely unsuitable for office who was never intended to win. In a traditional LD-Tory seat. He was up against Nick Clegg FFS. What were the electors thinking? Did none of them bother to do even the slightest bit of candidate research?
Sometimes you get the politicians you deserve. Some of the 2015 SNP intake were, by all accounts, completely clueless about even fairly basic processes and protocol in parliament - again, at the time of selection they weren't expected to ever end up there.
God knows what kind of poor quality representatives we'll get if there is a BXP surge at a Westminster election...
You can argue that the particular office and secretarial allowance should not have been made available to Clegg post-2015. But, given it was, I fail to see what is wrong in him making a lawful claim for expenses actually incurred. And nobody has ever suggested that it went to Clegg personally rather than paying for a larger office to carry on his work than he'd otherwise have had.
.
Somehow, my opinion of him might be higher if he had stopped short of doing something that was technically within his rights.
Still, he is a fantastic advert for the LibDems, as he now lies professionally for Facebook.
Remind me, how much tax does Facebook pay? Enough to pay Nick Clegg's expense claims?
Probably a lot more in Employers National Insurance and from the employee taxes than it does in a lot of other EU countries.
Yes - it probably should be a lot more but no-one has worked out how to tax global corporations locally yet..
My point is that Nick Clegg did not need to accept a job with Facebook.
Nick Palmer is an ex-MP. He is not working for a tax-avoiding multinational.
It is a person's right to legally minimise the tax they pay.
Are you lacking basic comprehension skills?
Right at outset, I said Nick Clegg had the right to minimise tax & had the right to claim the maximum £115,000 in expenses, but sometimes one's opinion of someone is higher if they stop short of exercising their rights to the maximum.
Thank God O'Mara is resigning, will sort out the democratic deficit the people of Sheffield Hallam have suffered for the last 2 years. Easy Lib Dem gain.
Once in South Africa I told a chap that I was from the UK. He observed that people from England say that they are from the UK and people from Scotland say that they are from Scotland.
Once in South Africa I told a chap that I was from the UK. He observed that people from England say that they are from the UK and people from Scotland say that they are from Scotland.
Good anecdote - can't believe how excited uniondiv is about managing to find One internet example of his supposed phenomenon.
What's Boris playing at? Is he trying to discredit the Tory Right by giving the wackiest of their number positions of authority that they're bound to muck up? Is this all about making Nigel an utter irrelevance? It's an interesting strategy.
Once in South Africa I told a chap that I was from the UK. He observed that people from England say that they are from the UK and people from Scotland say that they are from Scotland.
What's Boris playing at? Is he trying to discredit the Tory Right by giving the wackiest of their number positions of authority that they're bound to muck up? Is this all about making Nigel an utter irrelevance? It's an interesting strategy.
This is a new government to all intents and purposes.
Boris has gone far wider than I expected in culling the previous office holders and in sacking Penny he made a big mistake
His march to the next election started on day one and, love him or hate him, he is front and centre in the media and this is going to continue all the way to the next GE
Thank God O'Mara is resigning, will sort out the democratic deficit the people of Sheffield Hallam have suffered for the last 2 years. Easy Lib Dem gain.
It's their fault for voting for him. (Well, the fault of 20,000-odd of them).
An unvetted candidate, entirely unsuitable for office who was never intended to win. In a traditional LD-Tory seat. He was up against Nick Clegg FFS. What were the electors thinking? Did none of them bother to do even the slightest bit of candidate research?
Sometimes you get the politicians you deserve. Some of the 2015 SNP intake were, by all accounts, completely clueless about even fairly basic processes and protocol in parliament - again, at the time of selection they weren't expected to ever end up there.
God knows what kind of poor quality representatives we'll get if there is a BXP surge at a Westminster election...
Hallam was not a "traditional LD-Tory seat" in 2017.
The 2015 result left it as a LD-Lab marginal, and one that Labour might well have taken but for pro-Clegg tactical voting that was unlikely to be replicated in 2017.
Granted that when the election was called, Labour were doing poorly nationally and so wouldn't have expected to have gained Hallam on that basis but even so, this was a seat that should always have been on their radar.
Comments
What no-one seems to have found is one path to stability to offer instead.
My wife and I have travelled the seven seas on many occasions over the last 15 years and it is very common throughout the world
Many years ago a First Minister (Jack McConnell?) appointed Trump an Ambassador for Scotland. He was forever turning up at Tartan Days etc
1) Boris isn't going to call an election before 31st October. If however he does and gets parliament to agree (unlikely as it needs 2/3 majority) then he stays as PM until the election. He gets to choose the election date and can easily postpone it beyond Brexit.
2) Boris controls any recall of parliament. It's not in the speaker's gift. So no recall to make things happen any earlier than 4th September. If Iran decides to do something stupid for example which might indicate a recall Boris will wrap himself in the flag and get even more powerful.
3) How is a vote of no confidence going to happen and then see the formation of an alternative government which stops Brexit ? Corbyn will be asked to try to form a government first. Can you see Corbyn missing out on the chance to become PM? But he doesn't have the votes without all the LDs and all the SNP and a few others. So Corbyn fails.
To get a majority Corbyn will have to be replaced by Starmer or similar - doesn't that require some form of labour party election ? I can't see Starmer being elected unopposed, they'll be some form of momentum backed candidate.
If not Labour, then who else ? Swinson ? Can't see many labour or the tories supporting the anti-democrat she's turning out to be (Labour hate her with a passion for her support of the 2010 government) And her disdain for democracy - "I'll ignore the result of a second referendum if people vote leave" will make her total poison for all leavers and quite a few democratic remainers.
All this has to be done in 14 days in the midst of party conference season. Good luck with that. Boris remains PM and continues with executive authority until the automatic election - after Brexit.
The Lib Dems could offer to withdraw from Sheffield central.
In fact, Hallam isn't all that lucky for the LDs - it's a seat they'd have stood a good chance of winning at any time this parliament.
Trump becomes Scotland ambassador
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4961346.stm
The first, more likely, outcome is CU+SM+VAT area Soft Brexit/Vassal State. Everyone knows it's worse than what we had before but no-one has the energy any more to do anything about it.
The second less likely but actually more sensible outcome is to realise that absent a plan, the UK is nowhere near ready to Brexit, so revoke for now and set up a whole range of commissions to work out that plan. Punt Brexit to the long grass, essentially. British voters will need a bigger shock than it has had so far to contemplate that plan, but if Johnson fails in his do our die push this may happen.
I don't see any other stable or desirable outcomes.
Edit - Apparently Labour already has a candidate.
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1155007630018039808?s=21
Similar, the exTory MP for Brecon & Radnorshire is little crook who over-claimed a few hundred pounds, whereas Sir Nick the Millionaire has just claimed £115,000 from the public purse for expenses since losing his seat!
https://tinyurl.com/y4dr65r7
Yes, as through this world I've wandered
I've seen lots of funny men;
Some will rob you with a six-gun,
And some with a fountain pen.
Nick's fountain pen has been busy signing all those expense claims.
Perhaps the LibDems are not best placed to cackle about Chris Davies?
Carry on Cackling, though.
Labour's clearly in a bad place and I don't expect the latest polls tonight to show us as more than competitive with the others. But I'm not sure the LibDem and Brexit strength will translate into enough seats to make either of them rival the old big 2. There will be lots of places where it's obviously a Con-Lab marginal and LibDem organisation is almost non-existent. A LibDem friend lives in Croydon Central - she is vehemently anti-Corbyn and even more anti-Boris. She would love to vote LibDem, but they got 1.9% last time, and she feels she'll have to vote Labour as even potentially stopping Brexit taking priority. She won't be alone.
[runs away screaming]
You can argue that the particular office and secretarial allowance should not have been made available to Clegg post-2015. But, given it was, I fail to see what is wrong in him making a lawful claim for expenses actually incurred. And nobody has ever suggested that it went to Clegg personally rather than paying for a larger office to carry on his work than he'd otherwise have had.
I do, incidentally, feel a modicum of sympathy for Davies. He didn't forge receipts for personal gain but to cut through what he saw as red tape. The trouble, though, is that he did forge them which is clear criminal dishonesty even if the motive was a fractionally easier life rather than financial gain. In other words, he's a dishonest idiot rather than a dishonest fraudster.
My wife and I value the Union and my wife is as much a Scot as anyone posting on here
Please tone it down a bit
I would be grateful
Tectonic plates is a good analogy. For a long time there is stasis despite everyone predicting an earthquake. All this time the pressure builds unseen. And then suddenly there is a huge change as that pressure is released in a single moment.
https://tinyurl.com/y5lxcfjh
Interesting that after using the Rev Campbell's invaluable correction service that the BBC felt obliged to change it.
https://tinyurl.com/y4hqrp3j
He's been warging.
Have we factored in a scanario where an embittered former denizen of Wester-minster brings down dragon-fire on the Houses of Parliament? (To be fair, pb.com has recently considered even more far-fetched scenarios with a stern stroking of the beard....)
Most English people wouldn't get offended if a foreigner accidentally called them Scottish, Welsh or Irish. So why do some people from those three countries get offended to be accidentally described as English?
Even in 2010
Now I probably won't sprint to vote my postal vote but I can't see the Lib Dems winning the seat...
To apply for the Stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds, he'd need to write to Sajid Javid as Chancellor, and Javid would need to sign a form. No involvement for House of Commons at all.
In either case - it's pretty pathetic cybernat behaviour.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/07/theres-another-option-beyond-no-deal-or-mays-deal-and-boris-knows-it/
Still, he is a fantastic advert for the LibDems, as he now lies professionally for Facebook.
Remind me, how much tax does Facebook pay? Enough to pay Nick Clegg's expense claims?
Classy guy in a classy party.
Also I don’t think achieving a brexit by 31st Oct is going to be that difficult. Mays problem with bridging the gap was the run up she took to it, keeping DUP and her own party in the dark till she told them what they would be voting for. BoJos run and jump to a similar gap will be completely different, ERG on board in negotiations around backstop in order to enter transition by declaring a brexit that hasn’t happened. This governments here to stay.
Yes - it probably should be a lot more but no-one has worked out how to tax global corporations locally yet..
The writ for a new election is moved in the Commons, but all that is required for him to vacate the seat (which is a different thing) is to write a short letter to Sajid Javid.
Nick Palmer is an ex-MP. He is not working for a tax-avoiding multinational.
We both object to being called English and try to explain it in a respectful manner
Grovelling unionist: X doesn't happen except in your self-pitying head.
Self-pitying Scot provides example of X
Grovelling unionist: PATHETIC CYBERNAT BEHAVIOUR!!!
The already piss poor powers of Unionist dialectic have really gone downhill in the last few years. I'm assuming that the inherent contradictions of the Brexit that you've imposed on all of us has really ramped up the stoopid.
His latest book, 'Exactly', is absolutely stonkingly brilliant. Perhaps this is stupid of me, but I'd never really considered the difference between the meanings of 'Precise' and Accurate' in quite the right way before I read that book.
https://twitter.com/JackElphinstone/status/1155066374735257601
*checks*
Oh, I see. Blimey.
Well done, your useage appears to be valid.
Good luck!
An unvetted candidate, entirely unsuitable for office who was never intended to win. In a traditional LD-Tory seat. He was up against Nick Clegg FFS. What were the electors thinking? Did none of them bother to do even the slightest bit of candidate research?
Sometimes you get the politicians you deserve. Some of the 2015 SNP intake were, by all accounts, completely clueless about even fairly basic processes and protocol in parliament - again, at the time of selection they weren't expected to ever end up there.
God knows what kind of poor quality representatives we'll get if there is a BXP surge at a Westminster election...
Right at outset, I said Nick Clegg had the right to minimise tax & had the right to claim the maximum £115,000 in expenses, but sometimes one's opinion of someone is higher if they stop short of exercising their rights to the maximum.
Once in South Africa I told a chap that I was from the UK. He observed that people from England say that they are from the UK and people from Scotland say that they are from Scotland.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/27/boris-johnson-frighten-charm-eu
Boris has gone far wider than I expected in culling the previous office holders and in sacking Penny he made a big mistake
His march to the next election started on day one and, love him or hate him, he is front and centre in the media and this is going to continue all the way to the next GE
Him: So where are you from?
Me: UK, you?
Him: [somewhere in south east asia]
Me: Ah, England [insert recent cricket score] with [his nation]
The 2015 result left it as a LD-Lab marginal, and one that Labour might well have taken but for pro-Clegg tactical voting that was unlikely to be replicated in 2017.
Granted that when the election was called, Labour were doing poorly nationally and so wouldn't have expected to have gained Hallam on that basis but even so, this was a seat that should always have been on their radar.