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  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    Boris will be the first genuine classicist as PM since Gladstone too

    But Mr Gladstone was a man of principle!
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    eek said:

    Talking about Boris's Telegraph article I will give you this

    https://twitter.com/garius/status/1153161784125263873

    Now I could go into the details of why what Boris wants is very difficult and will cost billions. But given the article he wrote I doubt he would understand the issue.

    The Apollo software worked because it had 1 task and everyone was focused on achieving that task. A border will have millions of people trying to bypass and cheat it..

    Are there any estimates current number of border crossings?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    edited July 2019
    eek said:

    Talking about Boris's Telegraph article I will give you this

    https://twitter.com/garius/status/1153161784125263873

    Now I could go into the details of why what Boris wants is very difficult and will cost billions. But given the article he wrote I doubt he would understand the issue.

    The Apollo software worked because it had 1 task and everyone was focused on achieving that task. A border will have millions of people trying to bypass and cheat it..

    Another point to pick at in Boris's gormless metaphor is that the return of the command module was the reverse of a frictionless re-entry to Earth’s atmosphere. A whole shitload of calculation and shielding was required to prevent it being incinerated by friction.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    I presume @HYUFD is off on a "border...Irish...WTO..." google.

    Boris will not impose a hard border in Northern Ireland, unless the WTO invades Northern Ireland they cannot force him to do so.

    If the Republic and EU do that is up to them on their side

    It sure is. It will be imposed in the knowledge that it is a legal obligation and necessary to protect the integrity of the Single Market (see, also, the Channel and North Sea ports). With significant EU aid and support from the US, too, Ireland will be cushioned. And with no hard border on the UK side Irish goods will still be able to enter the UK freely. What’s not to like?

    The RoI won't put up a border. It would be the antithesis of what they hope to achieve politically.

    As @IanB2 has pointed out previously, the most likely route to a border would be a challenge under WTO MFN.

    Oh if only someone would write a post about it. But wait...

    www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/12/01/a-message-to-moggsy-on-northern-ireland-from-an-ex-british-army-officer-who-served-there-during-the-troubles/

    (incorrect title btw)

    Even better for the Irish, of course. The pinch point for the UK is the Channel.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    JackW said:

    Sky News - FO minister Sir Alan Duncan resigns.

    @AndreaParma_82 will be distraught. His much favoured MP - "Hunky Dinky Dunky" the Miniature of Parliament for Rutland falls on his sword .... actually a small fruit knife .... :smile:

    Cheese knife given his constituency.
  • Forgive my ignorance on this but I have no idea what problem HS2 was supposed to fix. In my experience the London-west midlands-north west routes are quick and frequent. Bloody expensive but I don’t think that is the issue.

  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    Is Boris going to continue writing columns for the Telegraph every day?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/21/need-can-do-spirit-1960s-america-help-us-get-eu/

    Ministers can write as many columns as they like, but they won’t be getting paid for them - certainly not the £5k a column he supposedly gets paid now, for an hour’s work.

    For similar reasons, there’s no chance of JRM ever becoming a minister. He runs his own fund, which relies on his personal skills and can’t be put to one side to allow him to join the government, it would be a massive conflict of interest. His paper on housing, released today by the IEA, sounds like it should be at the top of the inbox of whoever is the new housing minister though.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/20/build-green-belt-cut-tax-end-home-crisis-urges-jacob-rees-mogg/
    JRM could have phoned that in; perhaps he did. We need to rebalance the economy away from London and stimulate (including with new or refurbished, cheap housing) the north, south-west and our coastal towns. We need to revisit the new towns of the 20th Century. Encourage companies and entrepreneurs to look beyond the M25. Instead we get this tired old mantra of building a million more homes on London's green belt.
    Travelling through Manchester on the way to the airport last night it's booming. Likewise Leeds is full of cranes.

    Boris was talking about building HS2 North to South rather than south to North. What he needs to do is scrap it and start HS3 / Northern Powerhouse Rail immediately...
    How you can you start immediately what hasn't even been fully developed yet, yet alone been through parliament?

    And that's leaving aside the insanity of not actually fixing the problem that HS2 was designed to fix. This is just another lets-cancel-HS2-without-saying-we-want-to-cancel-it argument.
    HS" is just another 100B being splurged on London. Cut the crap and start regenerating the regions. Force them to stop putting everything in London and just making bigger problems.
    First thing should be clearout of government departments across the country, give someone other than London a chance to benefit from the taxes they paid.
    Given that Parliament needs to be rebuilt - build something new in Sheffield, Manchester, Leeds or Nottingham and turn Westminister into another tourist attraction...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T

    "Lord Ashcroft: More woe for St Helena. New figures reveal that its airport has failed to bring an influx of visitors"

    https://www.conservativehome.com/international/2019/07/lord-ashcroft-more-woe-for-st-helena-new-figures-reveal-that-its-airport-has-failed-to-bring-an-influx-of-visitors.html
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    IanB2 said:

    Mr. B2, ha. Since writing more morning F1 posts, things appear to have improved a bit, actually.

    Mr. HYUFD, I think that is far from certain.

    Come a General Election we'd be deciding who governs the country. BP could certainly cost the Conservatives a lot, but the choice is blue or red.

    Lol. It would be cruel to comment on the comparative success rate of mistaken tips.

    In the new politics, the choice is orange or turquoise.
    ....as to how to spoil your vote.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    Is Boris going to continue writing columns for the Telegraph every day?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/21/need-can-do-spirit-1960s-america-help-us-get-eu/

    Ministers can write as many columns as they like, but they won’t be getting paid for them - certainly not the £5k a column he supposedly gets paid now, for an hour’s work.

    For similar reasons, there’s no chance of JRM ever becoming a minister. He runs his own fund, which relies on his personal skills and can’t be put to one side to allow him to join the government, it would be a massive conflict of interest. His paper on housing, released today by the IEA, sounds like it should be at the top of the inbox of whoever is the new housing minister though.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/20/build-green-belt-cut-tax-end-home-crisis-urges-jacob-rees-mogg/
    JRM could have phoned that in; perhaps he did. We need to rebalance the economy away from London and stimulate (including with new or refurbished, cheap housing) the north, south-west and our coastal towns. We need to revisit the new towns of the 20th Century. Encourage companies and entrepreneurs to look beyond the M25. Instead we get this tired old mantra of building a million more homes on London's green belt.
    The immediate housing affordability problem is in London and the South East though. The only way it’s getting fixed is with lots of building and encouragements for people to downsize.

    I agree with you completely about the need for regeneration in Northern towns, I have suggested here before that tax breaks on employment and economic “Free Zones” around ports could bring huge number of jobs to these areas once we leave the EU.
    Let the halfwits move away from London and southeast. Why if there are no houses are they there at all. Government should not pay any housing benefit above country average in the London and south east area. That would encourage a few to move.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    Forgive my ignorance on this but I have no idea what problem HS2 was supposed to fix. In my experience the London-west midlands-north west routes are quick and frequent. Bloody expensive but I don’t think that is the issue.

    HS2 fixes capacity issues on the west coast mainline - the east bound line also speeds up journeys to London from Nottingham and Sheffield.

    However, as others have rightfully pointed out, a new line to London just improves the reach of London it doesn't provide the rebalance the country needs...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Good morning PB.

    Everyone ready for Boris to ascend this week? :D
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Gin, *taps space cannon barrel*

    We certainly are.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    philiph said:

    eek said:

    Talking about Boris's Telegraph article I will give you this

    https://twitter.com/garius/status/1153161784125263873

    Now I could go into the details of why what Boris wants is very difficult and will cost billions. But given the article he wrote I doubt he would understand the issue.

    The Apollo software worked because it had 1 task and everyone was focused on achieving that task. A border will have millions of people trying to bypass and cheat it..

    Are there any estimates current number of border crossings?
    Here you go:

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mobile-phone-data-reveals-number-of-irish-border-crossings-each-year-37363370.html
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,355
    GIN1138 said:

    Good morning PB.

    Everyone ready for Boris to ascend this week? :D

    Everyone except Boris, I expect! :)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Forgive my ignorance on this but I have no idea what problem HS2 was supposed to fix. In my experience the London-west midlands-north west routes are quick and frequent. Bloody expensive but I don’t think that is the issue.

    shave 15 mins off London to Birmingham, nothing else. Cheap at 100B
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    JackW said:

    Sky News - FO minister Sir Alan Duncan resigns.

    @AndreaParma_82 will be distraught. His much favoured MP - "Hunky Dinky Dunky" the Miniature of Parliament for Rutland falls on his sword .... actually a small fruit knife .... :smile:

    Rats off a sinking ship....I don't think so. Someone with the scruples of Johnson who has no committment to anything -Brexit included- is going to be harder to shift than dog poo on a pair of trainers. Resignation is futile. Let's face it. We've landed a blond turd
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Apparently the Russians did try but their rockets were not powerful enough, because their rocket engines were not big enough, so they needed to use two dozen or so engines and did not have the electronics to coordinate them properly. After several launch failures, the programme was cancelled.

    I saw somewhere that the Americans were worried about the Russians acquiring their electronics.

    There is famous footage of a ring between 2 of the Saturn stages being jettisoned into the rocket blast of the next stage. The story is the ring contained the control computers, and they deliberately burned it to stop the Russians recovering it
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited July 2019
    That's Hunky Dunky done for then?

    Hammond and Gauke are off on Wedneesday with Theresa.

    Would the last wet out of the Cabinet please turn out the lights! :D
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    Is Boris going to continue writing columns for the Telegraph every day?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/21/need-can-do-spirit-1960s-america-help-us-get-eu/

    Ministers can write as many columns as they like, but they won’t be getting paid for them - certainly not the £5k a column he supposedly gets paid now, for an hour’s work.

    For similar reasons, there’s no chance of JRM ever becoming a minister. He runs his own fund, which relies on his personal skills and can’t be put to one side to allow him to join the government, it would be a massive conflict of interest. His paper on housing, released today by the IEA, sounds like it should be at the top of the inbox of whoever is the new housing minister though.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/20/build-green-belt-cut-tax-end-home-crisis-urges-jacob-rees-mogg/
    JRM could have phoned that in; perhaps he did. We need to rebalance the economy away from London and stimulate (including with new or refurbished, cheap housing) the north, south-west and our coastal towns. We need to revisit the new towns of the 20th Century. Encourage companies and entrepreneurs to look beyond the M25. Instead we get this tired old mantra of building a million more homes on London's green belt.
    The immediate housing affordability problem is in London and the South East though. The only way it’s getting fixed is with lots of building and encouragements for people to downsize.

    I agree with you completely about the need for regeneration in Northern towns, I have suggested here before that tax breaks on employment and economic “Free Zones” around ports could bring huge number of jobs to these areas once we leave the EU.
    Let the halfwits move away from London and southeast. Why if there are no houses are they there at all. Government should not pay any housing benefit above country average in the London and south east area. That would encourage a few to move.
    Sounds like a CCHQ wheeze to move Labour voters out. Westminster tried it before.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ministers can write as many columns as they like, but they won’t be getting paid for them - certainly not the £5k a column he supposedly gets paid now, for an hour’s work.

    For similar reasons, there’s no chance of JRM ever becoming a minister. He runs his own fund, which relies on his personal skills and can’t be put to one side to allow him to join the government, it would be a massive conflict of interest. His paper on housing, released today by the IEA, sounds like it should be at the top of the inbox of whoever is the new housing minister though.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/20/build-green-belt-cut-tax-end-home-crisis-urges-jacob-rees-mogg/
    JRM could have phoned that in; perhaps he did. We need to rebalance the economy away from London and stimulate (including with new or refurbished, cheap housing) the north, south-west and our coastal towns. We need to revisit the new towns of the 20th Century. Encourage companies and entrepreneurs to look beyond the M25. Instead we get this tired old mantra of building a million more homes on London's green belt.
    Travelling through Manchester on the way to the airport last night it's booming. Likewise Leeds is full of cranes.

    Boris was talking about building HS2 North to South rather than south to North. What he needs to do is scrap it and start HS3 / Northern Powerhouse Rail immediately...
    How you can you start immediately what hasn't even been fully developed yet, yet alone been through parliament?

    And that's leaving aside the insanity of not actually fixing the problem that HS2 was designed to fix. This is just another lets-cancel-HS2-without-saying-we-want-to-cancel-it argument.
    Commiting the money required for it to be built would be enough at the moment (a tunnel through the Pennines isn't going to be cheap).

    As for HS2 if he's cancelling it, he really should just cancel it. I don't agree with it but if the new cost projections are true even I don't think it's worth the effort.

    A fast railway from Manchester to Birmingham doesn't fix anything - a faster railway across the north gives Manchester the best chance of getting the critical mass the North needs..
    What we need on transport is some serious balls. Make the HS3 Northern route as a maglev, so you can get from Liverpool to Newcastle in 90 minutes through Manchester and Leeds, with a branch to Sheffield. Even if we buy in the technology from Shanghai, making the North smaller will have a huge effect on how business works across the region. Yes, it’ll be expensive, but not doing it costs much more in the long term.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    philiph said:

    eek said:

    Talking about Boris's Telegraph article I will give you this

    https://twitter.com/garius/status/1153161784125263873

    Now I could go into the details of why what Boris wants is very difficult and will cost billions. But given the article he wrote I doubt he would understand the issue.

    The Apollo software worked because it had 1 task and everyone was focused on achieving that task. A border will have millions of people trying to bypass and cheat it..

    Are there any estimates current number of border crossings?
    Here you go:

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mobile-phone-data-reveals-number-of-irish-border-crossings-each-year-37363370.html
    Thanks
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    rkrkrk said:

    Alistair said:

    Oi, I posted that yesterday.

    But I agree with you, it is hard to disagree with it. If you treat Trump like a normal candidate he will win. If you treat him like a racist and actually energise the Dem base he will lose and lose badly.
    Suspicious of this tbh. The writer is very confident his approach is right, and it seems to be based on drawing a parallel between trump and duke, California and the US and the 1990s and today. Maybe he's right, but he seems overconfident given the limitations of his comparison.
    He is right in a limited sense - it's utterly counterproductive to debate with Trump as though he has legitimate arguments. He's a liar an a bullshitter anyway, so I'd not even try to debate him on policy.
    Of course the Democrats need a coherent platform on healthcare etc, but they should not be treating Trump as a reasonable interlocutor.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    Sky News - FO minister Sir Alan Duncan resigns.

    @AndreaParma_82 will be distraught. His much favoured MP - "Hunky Dinky Dunky" the Miniature of Parliament for Rutland falls on his sword .... actually a small fruit knife .... :smile:

    Cheese knife given his constituency.
    Will Liddington resign before TM goes as well?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Sandpit, nice idea, but I'll believe it when I see it.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Gauke, Liddlington, Hammond, Duncan.

    TM's coterie of male, pale, stale and epic fail.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    malcolmg said:

    Forgive my ignorance on this but I have no idea what problem HS2 was supposed to fix. In my experience the London-west midlands-north west routes are quick and frequent. Bloody expensive but I don’t think that is the issue.

    shave 15 mins off London to Birmingham, nothing else. Cheap at 100B
    The primary reason for it is expanding rail freight capacity over currently full lines, nothing to do with journey times between London and Birmingham.

    Same as the Heathrow runway, LHR is so far over capacity that any adverse weather costs billions in delays and cancellations, not to mention the environmental cost of having hundreds of thousands of planes that currently spend hours going around in circles at low level close to London so they can squeeze them so close together on approach.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited July 2019
    philiph said:

    philiph said:

    eek said:

    Talking about Boris's Telegraph article I will give you this

    https://twitter.com/garius/status/1153161784125263873

    Now I could go into the details of why what Boris wants is very difficult and will cost billions. But given the article he wrote I doubt he would understand the issue.

    The Apollo software worked because it had 1 task and everyone was focused on achieving that task. A border will have millions of people trying to bypass and cheat it..

    Are there any estimates current number of border crossings?
    Here you go:

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mobile-phone-data-reveals-number-of-irish-border-crossings-each-year-37363370.html
    Thanks
    That to me looks low. Years ago I bought a car from a farm on the irish border - we literally crossed the border 12 times getting to and from the farmyard and the M1/A1...

    The roads really do wind across the border as they feel like it...
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,815

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    timmo said:

    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    Sky News - FO minister Sir Alan Duncan resigns.

    @AndreaParma_82 will be distraught. His much favoured MP - "Hunky Dinky Dunky" the Miniature of Parliament for Rutland falls on his sword .... actually a small fruit knife .... :smile:

    Cheese knife given his constituency.
    Will Liddington resign before TM goes as well?
    There will be a new set of bastards. I think the feeling is that the Remain rebels aren't as hard-nosed as the Leave rebels (we have seen the former cave time after time whereas there remained a hard core of the latter throughout).

    Not ideal to have a dozen or three rebels when you have a large majority. Very, very tricky when you have a majority in the low single figures.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    Monday morning - why do 3 days work when you can quit now and relax...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    Perhaps they should get to know their party better. :D
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    And that point is - "we are not prepared to give anyone a chance to do any better than the absolute disaster sandwich we were part of because er.. flouncey flounce flounce !"


  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mob violence in Hong Kong this morning unfortunately

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-49066982

    Maybe British rule wasn't so bad after all.
    There were plenty of riots in Hong Kong when the British ruled it. See the first five minutes of John Woo's "Bullet in the Head".
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    The public point being they can tell when they're not wanted?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Scott_P said:

    Apparently the Russians did try but their rockets were not powerful enough, because their rocket engines were not big enough, so they needed to use two dozen or so engines and did not have the electronics to coordinate them properly. After several launch failures, the programme was cancelled.

    I saw somewhere that the Americans were worried about the Russians acquiring their electronics.

    There is famous footage of a ring between 2 of the Saturn stages being jettisoned into the rocket blast of the next stage. The story is the ring contained the control computers, and they deliberately burned it to stop the Russians recovering it
    Oh God I'm at work. OK, just a quickie.

    Wrong ring.

    The ring you refer to is the interstage between the first and second stages. It was just a structural member to stop the engines of the second stage banging on the first stage. The computer ring (the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V_instrument_unit ) was on top of the third stage, just under the Lunar Module.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    The point is they have been Ministers in May's Govt. of Delivery Failure. They think by flouncing early, people might forget that.

    They won't.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,355
    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    I expect he does not in any way want to be contaminated with the coming shitstorm.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    TGOHF said:

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    And that point is - "we are not prepared to give anyone a chance to do any better than the absolute disaster sandwich we were part of because er.. flouncey flounce flounce !"


    The point is, they don't want a meeting at No. 10 that ends with a taxi out the back door.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,815
    TGOHF said:

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    And that point is - "we are not prepared to give anyone a chance to do any better than the absolute disaster sandwich we were part of because er.. flouncey flounce flounce !"


    Emm. That might have some validity if he hadn't laid out some of his plans (if you can call them that) and they were found wanting or told a lot of porkies. I refer you to Andrew Tyrie when in front of his committee when Boris was taken apart on some of his EU scare stories. It was along the lines of: 'That is all very well Boris, but none of it is actually true is it?'
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    JackW said:

    Sky News - FO minister Sir Alan Duncan resigns.

    @AndreaParma_82 will be distraught. His much favoured MP - "Hunky Dinky Dunky" the Miniature of Parliament for Rutland falls on his sword .... actually a small fruit knife .... :smile:

    As another wave of resignations kicks off at Westminster, Lord Falconer is surely reaching for his pen once more.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    alex. said:

    The Sun reports rumours that Boris will sack Hunt if he scores more than 60 per cent; that Saj has fallen out of favour because he is said to be preparing a new leadership bid in case Boris falls early; that Liz Truss reckons she can still be Chancellor (see Saj); and many more that I can't be bothered to type because I do not believe any of them but I've often been wrong before.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9553021/boris-johnson-sack-jeremy-hunt/

    Gove seems a possibility at 10-1 as it's rumoured that Boris plans to promote him as a signal that old hostilities are forgotten. JRM would be an amusing choice - very much the idea of the typical Brit that some people abroad still have. I'm not sure the EU would take him very seriously, though.

    My guesses, though: Mordaunt to FS, Gove to Home, Zac to Defra, Saj to Chancellor (despite the rumour), IDS to defence. Spin will be "diversity under Boris, open to the world".
    IDS to Defence. And subcontract UK defence policy to the United States? Apparently they’re going to lends us some assets to protect our shipping don’t you know?

    I suppose not such a problem for those on the left who believe that the U.K. doesn’t operate an independent defence policy anyway, but we’ve surely at least got to pretend?
    Since Conservative defence policy has been to scrap ships, sell off planes and sack soldiers until all that is left are the SAS and some lorries in Catterick, pretending is all we can do.
    The RN currently has a grand total of 9 escort vessels capable of going to sea. With a further 2 laid up and 8 in refit. The Iranians must be fucking shitting themselves.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,707
    Scott_P said:

    Apparently the Russians did try but their rockets were not powerful enough, because their rocket engines were not big enough, so they needed to use two dozen or so engines and did not have the electronics to coordinate them properly. After several launch failures, the programme was cancelled.

    I saw somewhere that the Americans were worried about the Russians acquiring their electronics.

    There is famous footage of a ring between 2 of the Saturn stages being jettisoned into the rocket blast of the next stage. The story is the ring contained the control computers, and they deliberately burned it to stop the Russians recovering it
    I doubt that's the reason. The Instrumentation Unit sat on top of the SIV-B stage (the second stage of the Saturn 1B, and the third stage of the Saturn V). Therefore AIUI they ended up either impacting on the Moon or re-entering Earth's atmosphere from orbital speed.

    The light toasting that it would receive from the engine of the upper stage (in S-V case) would be nothing compared to the heat it would receive during re-entry, which would destroy it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V_instrument_unit

    It's one of those stories that sounds good, but I doubt it's true - unless one of the early S1-B missions had a rather unusual profile.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    I expect he does not in any way want to be contaminated with the coming shitstorm.
    An idea that hold more water if he hadn't been perfectly content to be completely contaminated in the shitstorm of the last two years.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,815
    edited July 2019

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    The public point being they can tell when they're not wanted?
    You honestly think that they are all just resigning a day or so before being fired because it has just dawned on them all simultaneously that they are not wanted and are therefore all doing the right thing?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    I expect he does not in any way want to be contaminated with the coming shitstorm.
    Plenty of contamination from the shitstorm he's flouncing out of....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    The public point being they can tell when they're not wanted?
    You honestly think that they are all just resigning a day or so before being fired because it has just dawned on them all simultaneously that they are not wanted and are therefore all doing the right thing?
    No I think they've known for a while they're not wanted and have kept in the trough to the last day.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,815

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    I expect he does not in any way want to be contaminated with the coming shitstorm.
    Plenty of contamination from the shitstorm he's flouncing out of....
    True,
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    tlg86 said:

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    Perhaps they should get to know their party better. :D
    It's not aimed at the loons in the party membership though, it's aimed at the wider public.

    If the narrative for the first two weeks of a Johnson premiership is resignations, defections and the loss of a by-election in Brecon then it's not a good start. New leaders are generally met with a show of unity and optimism, some of the public will note that this one is different.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,707
    eek said:

    Commiting the money required for it to be built would be enough at the moment (a tunnel through the Pennines isn't going to be cheap).

    As for HS2 if he's cancelling it, he really should just cancel it. I don't agree with it but if the new cost projections are true even I don't think it's worth the effort.

    A fast railway from Manchester to Birmingham doesn't fix anything - a faster railway across the north gives Manchester the best chance of getting the critical mass the North needs..

    It's little to do with speed, but capacity. And I love the fact that people query HS2 costs, but blithely think that HS3 should go ahead whatever the cost (which is currently unknown).

    Here's what will happen: if HS2 is cancelled, so will HS3. In fact, in that situation I doubt HS3 will even get through parliament. Which is exactly what many of the people proposing this realise ...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    The point is they have been Ministers in May's Govt. of Delivery Failure. They think by flouncing early, people might forget that.

    They won't.
    Presumably including Boris, Rabb, Leadsome, Davis, Baker and Mcvey ?!?! .... :innocent:
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    OllyT said:

    tlg86 said:

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    Perhaps they should get to know their party better. :D
    It's not aimed at the loons in the party membership though, it's aimed at the wider public.

    If the narrative for the first two weeks of a Johnson premiership is resignations, defections and the loss of a by-election in Brecon then it's not a good start. New leaders are generally met with a show of unity and optimism, some of the public will note that this one is different.
    Except none of these have resigned during the Johnson premiership. If they had tried to after a week they wouldn't have been able to resign as they'd have been sacked in the reshuffle first.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,707
    malcolmg said:

    alex. said:

    alex. said:

    Someone said the other day that at its height, NASA was consuming something like 10% of US GDP.

    AIUI that person was wrong. NASA funding peaked at 4.4% of the US Federal Budget (not GDP) in 1966, and decreased rapidly from there. Note that was three years *before* the Moon landing, and reduced very rapidly after that. At it's height, it was about 0.8% of US GDP:

    To be fair they probably didn't say that. I just remember it was a big, disproportionate number. Maybe less than the UK will effectively end up spending on Brexit though (if not the Irish border).

    BTW: re the Irish border - for all the political aspects, isn't it ultimately true that the reason the Republic don't want a hard border is because of the economic damage it will do to them? So when all the Brexiteers waffle on about how "the UK won't impose any border controls, it will be the EU that are responsible for a hard border" they are effectively saying that they will protect the Southern Irish economy, but do little to help the North?

    It's like the wider bizarre suggestions that the UK should not worry about trade agreements because we will just retain 0% tariffs on everything. As if the basic purpose of Free trade agreement is to enable the buy stuff as cheap as possible, when actually it is to sell (using incoming trade barriers as leverage).

    on news the other day someone said it peaked at 5% of GDP so lots of numbers bandied about
    The links I gave for NASA's budget seem reasonable: I think in your case, someone has confused GDP with 'federal budget'.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    eek said:

    Commiting the money required for it to be built would be enough at the moment (a tunnel through the Pennines isn't going to be cheap).

    As for HS2 if he's cancelling it, he really should just cancel it. I don't agree with it but if the new cost projections are true even I don't think it's worth the effort.

    A fast railway from Manchester to Birmingham doesn't fix anything - a faster railway across the north gives Manchester the best chance of getting the critical mass the North needs..

    It's little to do with speed, but capacity. And I love the fact that people query HS2 costs, but blithely think that HS3 should go ahead whatever the cost (which is currently unknown).

    Here's what will happen: if HS2 is cancelled, so will HS3. In fact, in that situation I doubt HS3 will even get through parliament. Which is exactly what many of the people proposing this realise ...
    Yes I said that in a separate post. HS2 fixes capacity issues but they only exist because everything is centred on London...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    I expect he does not in any way want to be contaminated with the coming shitstorm.
    An idea that hold more water if he hadn't been perfectly content to be completely contaminated in the shitstorm of the last two years.
    He voted for the WA unlike the shits about to be in power who did everything possible to stop a deal contrary to their promises during the referendum campaign.

    Let the ultra-Brexiteers take charge. Let's see what their brilliant plans are. Then let them own 100% the consequences. If belief is all that is needed it will be a doddle won't it?

    The rest of us meanwhile can get on with life on Planet Earth while Carrie knits Boris an Irish border teacosy or whatever the latest technological solution is.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    eek said:

    Talking about Boris's Telegraph article I will give you this

    https://twitter.com/garius/status/1153161784125263873

    Now I could go into the details of why what Boris wants is very difficult and will cost billions. But given the article he wrote I doubt he would understand the issue.

    The Apollo software worked because it had 1 task and everyone was focused on achieving that task. A border will have millions of people trying to bypass and cheat it..

    If nothing else that comment by Boris shows that he does not have a clue about what implementing a telematics solution to customs would involve.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    I expect he does not in any way want to be contaminated with the coming shitstorm.
    Plenty of contamination from the shitstorm he's flouncing out of....
    When in the middle of a shitstorm with an even bigger one on the way, flouncing out of it seems a pretty good strategy. There's only so much shit Vanish can cope with.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    glw said:

    eek said:

    Talking about Boris's Telegraph article I will give you this

    https://twitter.com/garius/status/1153161784125263873

    Now I could go into the details of why what Boris wants is very difficult and will cost billions. But given the article he wrote I doubt he would understand the issue.

    The Apollo software worked because it had 1 task and everyone was focused on achieving that task. A border will have millions of people trying to bypass and cheat it..

    If nothing else that comment by Boris shows that he does not have a clue about what implementing a telematics solution to customs would involve.
    That's not the point I would guess. The point is make people, especially Brexiteers, believe that it must be possible to develop a technical solution and, then, when one is not developed, Johnson and the Brexiteers can blame someone else for the failure of another unicorn.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Just heard the DUP on radio. When it comes to shitty opportunists Johnson has met his match. Knowing NI voted Remain aren't they taking a bit of a chance that the next Referendum could see a United Ireland?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,707
    Sandpit said:

    What we need on transport is some serious balls. Make the HS3 Northern route as a maglev, so you can get from Liverpool to Newcastle in 90 minutes through Manchester and Leeds, with a branch to Sheffield. Even if we buy in the technology from Shanghai, making the North smaller will have a huge effect on how business works across the region. Yes, it’ll be expensive, but not doing it costs much more in the long term.

    Sadly, high-speed Maglev's are a failure and a technological dead-end. Even the Chinese are not expanding their one line, and have chosen to build a conventional high-speed line instead.

    The only hope is the Japanese system, which is technologically rather different from the German/Chinese system. But their system is expanding mind-boggilingly slowly.

    We'd be better off dusting off the old British Hovertrain concept ;)
    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/british-hyperloop-hovertrain-maglev-trains

    (And on a personal note, my dad's company built the concrete foundations of the first ever Maglev test system at Derby BREL/RC.)
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    How many jobs does he have to fill at all levels of government?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,707
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Commiting the money required for it to be built would be enough at the moment (a tunnel through the Pennines isn't going to be cheap).

    As for HS2 if he's cancelling it, he really should just cancel it. I don't agree with it but if the new cost projections are true even I don't think it's worth the effort.

    A fast railway from Manchester to Birmingham doesn't fix anything - a faster railway across the north gives Manchester the best chance of getting the critical mass the North needs..

    It's little to do with speed, but capacity. And I love the fact that people query HS2 costs, but blithely think that HS3 should go ahead whatever the cost (which is currently unknown).

    Here's what will happen: if HS2 is cancelled, so will HS3. In fact, in that situation I doubt HS3 will even get through parliament. Which is exactly what many of the people proposing this realise ...
    Yes I said that in a separate post. HS2 fixes capacity issues but they only exist because everything is centred on London...
    And ?
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    OllyT said:

    tlg86 said:

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    Perhaps they should get to know their party better. :D
    It's not aimed at the loons in the party membership though, it's aimed at the wider public.

    If the narrative for the first two weeks of a Johnson premiership is resignations, defections and the loss of a by-election in Brecon then it's not a good start. New leaders are generally met with a show of unity and optimism, some of the public will note that this one is different.
    Except none of these have resigned during the Johnson premiership. If they had tried to after a week they wouldn't have been able to resign as they'd have been sacked in the reshuffle first.
    Of course they would have been sacked, they are making the very public point that they are not prepared to serve under Johnson as PM. Some have been saying that before it was clear Johnson would be PM. However you spin it it is not a good look. Tomorrow's "coronation" will be competing on the news with more resignations.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    Roger said:

    Just heard the DUP on radio. When it comes to shitty opportunists Johnson has met his match. Knowing NI voted Remain aren't they taking a bit of a chance that the next Referendum could see a United Ireland?

    I think a united Ireland is one of those things a lot of Irish are theoretically in favour of, but in practice would rather it didn't happen anytime soon, as the odds on it occuring peacefully would be close to nil.
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    The public point being they can tell when they're not wanted?
    You honestly think that they are all just resigning a day or so before being fired because it has just dawned on them all simultaneously that they are not wanted and are therefore all doing the right thing?
    No I think they've known for a while they're not wanted and have kept in the trough to the last day.
    Hammond has been a *good* chancellor... It's the Brown like destructive stuff he does in the background...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited July 2019

    glw said:

    eek said:

    Talking about Boris's Telegraph article I will give you this

    https://twitter.com/garius/status/1153161784125263873

    Now I could go into the details of why what Boris wants is very difficult and will cost billions. But given the article he wrote I doubt he would understand the issue.

    The Apollo software worked because it had 1 task and everyone was focused on achieving that task. A border will have millions of people trying to bypass and cheat it..

    If nothing else that comment by Boris shows that he does not have a clue about what implementing a telematics solution to customs would involve.
    That's not the point I would guess. The point is make people, especially Brexiteers, believe that it must be possible to develop a technical solution and, then, when one is not developed, Johnson and the Brexiteers can blame someone else for the failure of another unicorn.
    Which is why anyone clueful is saying now that it isn’t possible. Mind you I do like the ability to turn around later and say I told you so.

    Now it may well be that the Government gives someone a few billion to create a solution but until I’m on the receiving end of that cheque I’ll repeat the statement that it’s more a human issue than a technology one (and even then the technology won’t be easy).
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    tlg86 said:

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    Perhaps they should get to know their party better. :D
    It's not aimed at the loons in the party membership though, it's aimed at the wider public.

    If the narrative for the first two weeks of a Johnson premiership is resignations, defections and the loss of a by-election in Brecon then it's not a good start. New leaders are generally met with a show of unity and optimism, some of the public will note that this one is different.
    Except none of these have resigned during the Johnson premiership. If they had tried to after a week they wouldn't have been able to resign as they'd have been sacked in the reshuffle first.
    Of course they would have been sacked, they are making the very public point that they are not prepared to serve under Johnson as PM. Some have been saying that before it was clear Johnson would be PM. However you spin it it is not a good look. Tomorrow's "coronation" will be competing on the news with more resignations.
    That assumes anybody cares about these failures and tomorrow's victory won't be a coronation it will be based upon votes. Democracy and respecting votes isn't something you guys are familiar with is it?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Jessop, to the ekranoplan!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-effect_vehicle

    [Yes, yes, I know utility would be limited at best, but it's a really cool idea].
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912

    That's not the point I would guess. The point is make people, especially Brexiteers, believe that it must be possible to develop a technical solution and, then, when one is not developed, Johnson and the Brexiteers can blame someone else for the failure of another unicorn.

    Perhaps, but it does clearly show that he has no comprehension of the relatively difficulty of the two tasks. Flying to the moon, at least the computational part of it, is by far the easier problem. I realise you know this, but I'm spelling it out for any Boris supporters.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    Cyclefree said:

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    I expect he does not in any way want to be contaminated with the coming shitstorm.
    An idea that hold more water if he hadn't been perfectly content to be completely contaminated in the shitstorm of the last two years.
    He voted for the WA unlike the shits about to be in power who did everything possible to stop a deal contrary to their promises during the referendum campaign.

    Let the ultra-Brexiteers take charge. Let's see what their brilliant plans are. Then let them own 100% the consequences. If belief is all that is needed it will be a doddle won't it?

    The rest of us meanwhile can get on with life on Planet Earth while Carrie knits Boris an Irish border teacosy or whatever the latest technological solution is.
    I truly hope the Cabinet is stuffed with ERG loons there really will be nowhere to hide then come November.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    nichomar said:

    How many jobs does he have to fill at all levels of government?

    Not nearly enough for all those promised preferment by Camp Boris.

    Ooooppps .... :smile:
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. T/Miss Cyclefree, it's odd to focus on the ERG when the vast majority of those repeatedly opposing the deal were pro-EU MPs.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Layla Moran on Sky News: "I'd be shocked if Jo Swinson doesn't win".
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    OllyT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    I expect he does not in any way want to be contaminated with the coming shitstorm.
    An idea that hold more water if he hadn't been perfectly content to be completely contaminated in the shitstorm of the last two years.
    He voted for the WA unlike the shits about to be in power who did everything possible to stop a deal contrary to their promises during the referendum campaign.

    Let the ultra-Brexiteers take charge. Let's see what their brilliant plans are. Then let them own 100% the consequences. If belief is all that is needed it will be a doddle won't it?

    The rest of us meanwhile can get on with life on Planet Earth while Carrie knits Boris an Irish border teacosy or whatever the latest technological solution is.
    I truly hope the Cabinet is stuffed with ERG loons there really will be nowhere to hide then come November.
    If it's stuffed with ERG loonies issues are going to appear well before November...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    edited July 2019

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    tlg86 said:

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    Perhaps they should get to know their party better. :D
    It's not aimed at the loons in the party membership though, it's aimed at the wider public.

    If the narrative for the first two weeks of a Johnson premiership is resignations, defections and the loss of a by-election in Brecon then it's not a good start. New leaders are generally met with a show of unity and optimism, some of the public will note that this one is different.
    Except none of these have resigned during the Johnson premiership. If they had tried to after a week they wouldn't have been able to resign as they'd have been sacked in the reshuffle first.
    Of course they would have been sacked, they are making the very public point that they are not prepared to serve under Johnson as PM. Some have been saying that before it was clear Johnson would be PM. However you spin it it is not a good look. Tomorrow's "coronation" will be competing on the news with more resignations.
    That assumes anybody cares about these failures and tomorrow's victory won't be a coronation it will be based upon votes. Democracy and respecting votes isn't something you guys are familiar with is it?
    All in favour of democracy. Looking forward to Boris seeking a mandate PDQ from us voters for his government and policy, which is not what was in the 2017 Tory manifesto.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,355
    JackW said:

    nichomar said:

    How many jobs does he have to fill at all levels of government?

    Not nearly enough for all those promised preferment by Camp Boris.

    Ooooppps .... :smile:
    Perhaps he will do a Napolean and promote all his Privates to General.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    Roger said:

    Just heard the DUP on radio. When it comes to shitty opportunists Johnson has met his match. Knowing NI voted Remain aren't they taking a bit of a chance that the next Referendum could see a United Ireland?

    But, for Johnson, that solves the Problem of Northern Ireland. He won't have to concern himself with Arlene's NOOOO!
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    tlg86 said:

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    Perhaps they should get to know their party better. :D
    It's not aimed at the loons in the party membership though, it's aimed at the wider public.

    If the narrative for the first two weeks of a Johnson premiership is resignations, defections and the loss of a by-election in Brecon then it's not a good start. New leaders are generally met with a show of unity and optimism, some of the public will note that this one is different.
    Except none of these have resigned during the Johnson premiership. If they had tried to after a week they wouldn't have been able to resign as they'd have been sacked in the reshuffle first.
    Of course they would have been sacked, they are making the very public point that they are not prepared to serve under Johnson as PM. Some have been saying that before it was clear Johnson would be PM. However you spin it it is not a good look. Tomorrow's "coronation" will be competing on the news with more resignations.
    That assumes anybody cares about these failures and tomorrow's victory won't be a coronation it will be based upon votes. Democracy and respecting votes isn't something you guys are familiar with is it?
    PM chosen by the votes of 100,000+self-selecting loons just like the ones that elected Corbyn. Let's wait till the other 99% of us have a say before we dignify Johnson's elevation to PM with the word "democracy".
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    JackW said:

    nichomar said:

    How many jobs does he have to fill at all levels of government?

    Not nearly enough for all those promised preferment by Camp Boris.

    Ooooppps .... :smile:
    They would be the top jobs but the payroll vote is about 120? Can he find 120 willing to serve?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Effect of a shrinking membership though?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,355
    glw said:

    Roger said:

    Just heard the DUP on radio. When it comes to shitty opportunists Johnson has met his match. Knowing NI voted Remain aren't they taking a bit of a chance that the next Referendum could see a United Ireland?

    I think a united Ireland is one of those things a lot of Irish are theoretically in favour of, but in practice would rather it didn't happen anytime soon, as the odds on it occuring peacefully would be close to nil.
    Yes, I agree. It would be best if it happened slowly, by degrees.

    Brexit should be a help in that respect.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Mr. T/Miss Cyclefree, it's odd to focus on the ERG when the vast majority of those repeatedly opposing the deal were pro-EU MPs.

    It was the opposition to departure with a deal by the ERG - who had been agitating for years to leave - which gave cover to others to oppose what they never wanted in the first place. Why should they acquiesce when ultra-leavers refused to vote for leave?

  • Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Forgive my ignorance on this but I have no idea what problem HS2 was supposed to fix. In my experience the London-west midlands-north west routes are quick and frequent. Bloody expensive but I don’t think that is the issue.

    shave 15 mins off London to Birmingham, nothing else. Cheap at 100B
    The primary reason for it is expanding rail freight capacity over currently full lines, nothing to do with journey times between London and Birmingham.

    Same as the Heathrow runway, LHR is so far over capacity that any adverse weather costs billions in delays and cancellations, not to mention the environmental cost of having hundreds of thousands of planes that currently spend hours going around in circles at low level close to London so they can squeeze them so close together on approach.
    I spent a few months in the mid-2000s modelling the cost of delays to flights of various factors affecting air traffic control, including adverse weather. I can state with some confidence that any given adverse weather event did not cost billions. Without digging out the models to remind myself, I’m also fairly confident that the aggregate cost of weather events in a given year was not billions. Finally, I’m sceptical that there are currently hundreds of thousands of planes in a holding pattern given that Heathrow has c. 1,350 movements per day. If there were, it would be to keep them spread out on landing not squeeze them together. Apart from that, good post.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,707
    edited July 2019

    Mr. Jessop, to the ekranoplan!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-effect_vehicle

    [Yes, yes, I know utility would be limited at best, but it's a really cool idea].

    The US's reaction when they first saw spy photos of one of those:

    "What the **** is that?"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_Sea_Monster#Western_discovery

    edit: but one of the silliest transport designs to get off the drawing board were the propeller/jet trains:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schienenzeppelin
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aérotrain

    As with Maglev, they broke world speed records. As with Maglev, they proved rather unsuitable for service ...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    nichomar said:

    How many jobs does he have to fill at all levels of government?

    Not nearly enough for all those promised preferment by Camp Boris.

    Ooooppps .... :smile:
    Perhaps he will do a Napolean and promote all his Privates to General.
    Talk of Boris's privates before luncheon is only slightly less nauseating than the imagery of Jezza and Abbott astride each other in East Germany !!

    I shall have to lie down in a darkened room before all the excitement of the LibDem leadership announcement later this afternoon.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    Mr. T/Miss Cyclefree, it's odd to focus on the ERG when the vast majority of those repeatedly opposing the deal were pro-EU MPs.

    Most of those people are called the Opposition and they were doing what they are paid to do.

    Out of Tory MPs how many MPs who voted against May's Deal are ERG members. I haven't looked but it would be a lot more than 50%..
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    A halfway competent opposition would destroy this government. Imagine what a John Smith could have done.

    Instead we have a party which rivals the Tories for malicious incompetence.

    There is such a big opportunity for the Lib Dems here - if only they have the ruthless focus to grab it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    edited July 2019
    eek said:

    Mr. T/Miss Cyclefree, it's odd to focus on the ERG when the vast majority of those repeatedly opposing the deal were pro-EU MPs.

    Most of those people are called the Opposition and they were doing what they are paid to do.

    Out of Tory MPs how many MPs who voted against May's Deal are ERG members. I haven't looked but it would be a lot more than 50%..
    If the ERG had been on board, the likelihood is that other Tory opposition would have melted away.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914

    eek said:

    Talking about Boris's Telegraph article I will give you this

    https://twitter.com/garius/status/1153161784125263873

    Now I could go into the details of why what Boris wants is very difficult and will cost billions. But given the article he wrote I doubt he would understand the issue.

    The Apollo software worked because it had 1 task and everyone was focused on achieving that task. A border will have millions of people trying to bypass and cheat it..

    Another point to pick at in Boris's gormless metaphor is that the return of the command module was the reverse of a frictionless re-entry to Earth’s atmosphere. A whole shitload of calculation and shielding was required to prevent it being incinerated by friction.
    Quite, if re-entry had been frictionless they would have died by crashing into the ocean at thousands of miles per hour.
    Oh, I see what he means...
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited July 2019
    eek said:
    The rule here is that if the client wouldn't be able to describe how the system would work if it was implemented (albeit slowly and inefficiently) using old-school paper forms, but still thinks it's somehow going to work once there are computers involved, don't take the job.

    Admittedly there may be different rules if you're a monster IT consultancy like Fujitsu and your lawyers can work out a way for you to get paid to *not* deliver a working system.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    edited July 2019
    eek said:

    glw said:

    eek said:

    Talking about Boris's Telegraph article I will give you this

    https://twitter.com/garius/status/1153161784125263873

    Now I could go into the details of why what Boris wants is very difficult and will cost billions. But given the article he wrote I doubt he would understand the issue.

    The Apollo software worked because it had 1 task and everyone was focused on achieving that task. A border will have millions of people trying to bypass and cheat it..

    If nothing else that comment by Boris shows that he does not have a clue about what implementing a telematics solution to customs would involve.
    That's not the point I would guess. The point is make people, especially Brexiteers, believe that it must be possible to develop a technical solution and, then, when one is not developed, Johnson and the Brexiteers can blame someone else for the failure of another unicorn.
    Which is why anyone clueful is saying now that it isn’t possible. Mind you I do like the ability to turn around later and say I told you so.

    Now it may well be that the Government gives someone a few billion to create a solution but until I’m on the receiving end of that cheque I’ll repeat the statement that it’s more a human issue than a technology one (and even then the technology won’t be easy).
    The technological solution working on GPS and the equivalent of aviation flight plans works just fine and actually could be implemented soon. That software already exists.

    But we’re not dealing with a technological problem, we’re dealing with a political problem.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    viewcode said:

    Oh God I'm at work. OK, just a quickie.

    Wrong ring.

    The ring you refer to is the interstage between the first and second stages. It was just a structural member to stop the engines of the second stage banging on the first stage. The computer ring (the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V_instrument_unit ) was on top of the third stage, just under the Lunar Module.

    I doubt that's the reason. The Instrumentation Unit sat on top of the SIV-B stage (the second stage of the Saturn 1B, and the third stage of the Saturn V). Therefore AIUI they ended up either impacting on the Moon or re-entering Earth's atmosphere from orbital speed.

    The light toasting that it would receive from the engine of the upper stage (in S-V case) would be nothing compared to the heat it would receive during re-entry, which would destroy it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V_instrument_unit

    It's one of those stories that sounds good, but I doubt it's true - unless one of the early S1-B missions had a rather unusual profile.

    Only on PB...
  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,275
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    tlg86 said:

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    Perhaps they should get to know their party better. :D
    It's not aimed at the loons in the party membership though, it's aimed at the wider public.

    If the narrative for the first two weeks of a Johnson premiership is resignations, defections and the loss of a by-election in Brecon then it's not a good start. New leaders are generally met with a show of unity and optimism, some of the public will note that this one is different.
    Except none of these have resigned during the Johnson premiership. If they had tried to after a week they wouldn't have been able to resign as they'd have been sacked in the reshuffle first.
    Of course they would have been sacked, they are making the very public point that they are not prepared to serve under Johnson as PM. Some have been saying that before it was clear Johnson would be PM. However you spin it it is not a good look. Tomorrow's "coronation" will be competing on the news with more resignations.
    That assumes anybody cares about these failures and tomorrow's victory won't be a coronation it will be based upon votes. Democracy and respecting votes isn't something you guys are familiar with is it?
    PM chosen by the votes of 100,000+self-selecting loons just like the ones that elected Corbyn. Let's wait till the other 99% of us have a say before we dignify Johnson's elevation to PM with the word "democracy".
    Not entirely fair. I'm no fan of Boris but he was in effect chosen by his MPs - the principle of which has been in operation since 1965. The membership were but bit players whose only power was to reverse the MPs' decision. Petsonally I favour a return to the Magic Circle, a system which has a far better track record.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    glw said:

    eek said:

    Talking about Boris's Telegraph article I will give you this

    https://twitter.com/garius/status/1153161784125263873

    Now I could go into the details of why what Boris wants is very difficult and will cost billions. But given the article he wrote I doubt he would understand the issue.

    The Apollo software worked because it had 1 task and everyone was focused on achieving that task. A border will have millions of people trying to bypass and cheat it..

    If nothing else that comment by Boris shows that he does not have a clue about what implementing a telematics solution to customs would involve.
    That's not the point I would guess. The point is make people, especially Brexiteers, believe that it must be possible to develop a technical solution and, then, when one is not developed, Johnson and the Brexiteers can blame someone else for the failure of another unicorn.
    Which is why anyone clueful is saying now that it isn’t possible. Mind you I do like the ability to turn around later and say I told you so.

    Now it may well be that the Government gives someone a few billion to create a solution but until I’m on the receiving end of that cheque I’ll repeat the statement that it’s more a human issue than a technology one (and even then the technology won’t be easy).
    The technological solution working on GPS and the equivalent of aviation flight plans works just fine and actually could be implemented soon. That software already exists.

    But we’re not dealing with a technological problem, we’re dealing with a political problem.
    This.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    tlg86 said:

    kjh said:

    Has anyone "resigned" who wasn't going to be sacked anyway?

    Nope. But that isn't the point is it. They are making a very, very public point. Not sure why he has gone before the result. I can only assume because it wouldn't get noticed in the flood or more high profile resignations.
    Perhaps they should get to know their party better. :D
    It's not aimed at the loons in the party membership though, it's aimed at the wider public.

    If the narrative for the first two weeks of a Johnson premiership is resignations, defections and the loss of a by-election in Brecon then it's not a good start. New leaders are generally met with a show of unity and optimism, some of the public will note that this one is different.
    Except none of these have resigned during the Johnson premiership. If they had tried to after a week they wouldn't have been able to resign as they'd have been sacked in the reshuffle first.
    Of course they would have been sacked, they are making the very public point that they are not prepared to serve under Johnson as PM. Some have been saying that before it was clear Johnson would be PM. However you spin it it is not a good look. Tomorrow's "coronation" will be competing on the news with more resignations.
    That assumes anybody cares about these failures and tomorrow's victory won't be a coronation it will be based upon votes. Democracy and respecting votes isn't something you guys are familiar with is it?
    At the last GE 1.8% voted for no deal, the other 98.2% voted for parties that wanted our relationship with the EU to at least be a deal. The likely new PM is taking us down a route that makes the likely destination one supported by just 1.8%. Who is not respecting votes here?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    eek said:
    The rule here is that if the client wouldn't be able to describe how the system would work if it was implemented (albeit slowly and inefficiently) using old-school paper forms, but still thinks it's somehow going to work once there are computers involved, don't take the job. Admittedly there may be different rules if you're a monster IT consultancy like Fujitsu and your lawyers can work out a way for you to get paid to *not* deliver a working system.
    Many years ago I worked for a small company where the boss decided that a computer would be better than his extremely efficient and totally loyal bookkeeper. So he ordered a computer to be supplied and installed (this was the mid 80's) immediately after Christmas while he went away for his usual Christmas Caribbean holiday. Shortly after New Year he returned and asked for a complete computer print out of everything that had happened during his holiday. Bookkeeper told him that it wasn't available, the suppliers had only just finished and she wasn't fully up to speed with it yet.
    So he sacked her!
    He and I had a row shortly afterwards and I left, too. So I don't know how the whole thing ended up.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited July 2019
    Scott_P said:

    viewcode said:

    Oh God I'm at work. OK, just a quickie.

    Wrong ring.

    The ring you refer to is the interstage between the first and second stages. It was just a structural member to stop the engines of the second stage banging on the first stage. The computer ring (the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V_instrument_unit ) was on top of the third stage, just under the Lunar Module.

    I doubt that's the reason. The Instrumentation Unit sat on top of the SIV-B stage (the second stage of the Saturn 1B, and the third stage of the Saturn V). Therefore AIUI they ended up either impacting on the Moon or re-entering Earth's atmosphere from orbital speed.

    The light toasting that it would receive from the engine of the upper stage (in S-V case) would be nothing compared to the heat it would receive during re-entry, which would destroy it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V_instrument_unit

    It's one of those stories that sounds good, but I doubt it's true - unless one of the early S1-B missions had a rather unusual profile.

    Only on PB...
    Don't forget @Rexel56's

    "I spent a few months in the mid-2000s modelling the cost of delays to flights of various factors affecting air traffic control, including adverse weather. I can state with some confidence that any given adverse weather event did not cost billions. Without digging out the models to remind myself, I’m also fairly confident that the aggregate cost of weather events in a given year was not billions. Finally, I’m sceptical that there are currently hundreds of thousands of planes in a holding pattern given that Heathrow has c. 1,350 movements per day. If there were, it would be to keep them spread out on landing not squeeze them together. Apart from that, good post."
This discussion has been closed.