The remarkable fact in all this is that the Lib Dems, SNP and Greens have been true to their principles and are rapidly gaining popularity. They are also strong revoke parties and the pendulum is swinging strongly their way
It is evidenced in the huge gains the Lib Dems are making in local elections and predictions coming out of Scotland of a complete wipe out for the conservatives and labour
Unless Boris can achieve a deal it is highly likely the momentum to revoke will overwhelm brexit, and that is especially true in a no deal situation where revoke will become the force de jure
As an ardent Remainer, I would love to revoke. However in many ways, and I agree with HY here, it is politically the most unacceptable option. A deal that looks anything like acceptable to the majority of the Consetvative Party or urban former-Labour voters looks highly unlikely. No deal is fast becoming the only game in town. Stock up, liquidate to cash, it could be a bumpy ride.
@HYUFD represents a substantial strand of Conservative party thinking. I disagree with it strongly, but piling on him doesn't show the site in a good light.
The Jezziah represents a substantial strand of Labour thinking bout I don't see anyone criticising the criticism he gets, which is considerably worse than anything HYUFD gets.
Well quite. And the systematic banning of SNP PBers a few years ago hardly showed the site in a good light either.
The remarkable fact in all this is that the Lib Dems, SNP and Greens have been true to their principles and are rapidly gaining popularity. They are also strong revoke parties and the pendulum is swinging strongly their way
It is evidenced in the huge gains the Lib Dems are making in local elections and predictions coming out of Scotland of a complete wipe out for the conservatives and labour
Unless Boris can achieve a deal it is highly likely the momentum to revoke will overwhelm brexit, and that is especially true in a no deal situation where revoke will become the force de jure
As an ardent Remainer, I would love to revoke. However in many ways, and I agree with HY here, it is politically the most unacceptable option. A deal that looks anything like acceptable to the majority of the Consetvative Party or urban former-Labour voters looks highly unlikely. No deal is fast becoming the only game in town. Stock up, liquidate to cash, it could be a bumpy ride.
@HYUFD represents a substantial strand of Conservative party thinking. I disagree with it strongly, but piling on him doesn't show the site in a good light.
When someone supports a coup they must be challenged. When someone extrapolates and spins unreliable data into certainty months ahead during a time of great chaos they must be challenged. If they keep posting nonsense repeatedly they will get challenged, whether it is mainstream in the bluekip party or not.
You mean, the false stories about him donating to Deir Yassin Remembered, or laying a wreath on a mass murderer's grave and lying about it, or saying the Jews don't get irony, or calling Hamas and Hezbollah his friends, or protesting about a mural being taken down just because it was a piece of Nazi propaganda?
Oh, hold in, those are true, aren't they?
The real issue with Corbyn and Labour more generally is not what their enemies are saying about them, it's what they're actually saying and doing.
Are those the strongest claims of anti semitism against corbyn? There is a reasonable case to be made that the only anti semitism in that list is 'Jews don't get irony'. A stereotype and a completely innacurate onre to boot. The rest are all Israel related.
There is nothing anti semitic about calling Hezbollah friends. I know many very sane Lebanese Christians who would say exactly the same. They have done more for the poor in Lebanon than any other organisation over the last twenty five years. Their crime is that they defended their country from an Israel invasion relatively successfully. As for laying wreaths,,,for God's sake Thathcher had Pinochet home for tea. People dead or alive are multi faceted. If you haven't been you should visit Lebanon. An intelligent population which might give you a mre rounded view of Middle Eastern politics
So you do concede he is antisemitic? Well, it's a start.
And calling any organisation that denies the Holocaust a friend, or worse, giving money to it, is also clearly antisemitic.
As was that mural, which was based on Nazi propaganda, and your feeble attempt to ignore it has not gone unnoticed.
Corbyn may not think he is a racist but his excuses for behaviour which in all any non-Labour politician he would rightly roundly condemn border on the asinine.
And as for the whataboutery with regard to Pinochet - are you really saying he's OK because he's done some things that are comparable to Thatcher? That strikes me as a dangerous argument...
Recognising the mural, which purported to show real bankers, at least two of them not Jewish, as based on Nazi propaganda, surely depends on a knowledge of Nazi propaganda. It seems entirely plausible that Corbyn did not see the connection.
He's a senior politician, not a Love Island contestant. The defence that he lacked even the most basic knowledge of Nazi propaganda tropes is incredible.
@HYUFD represents a substantial strand of Conservative party thinking. I disagree with it strongly, but piling on him doesn't show the site in a good light.
The Jezziah represents a substantial strand of Labour thinking bout I don't see anyone criticising the criticism he gets, which is considerably worse than anything HYUFD gets.
Perhaps because HYUFD isn't a standard-bearer for anti-semitism?
1. There’ll be a No Deal Brexit 2. The Tories will win the next GE 3. Jeremy Corbyn will remain leader even after Labour lose 4. Boris Johnson will be the last Tory PM in my lifetime 5. If I live my three score & 10 I’ll see the UK break-up 6. It’s bleak 7. Flee, you fools
@HYUFD represents a substantial strand of Conservative party thinking. I disagree with it strongly, but piling on him doesn't show the site in a good light.
You are correct that @HYUFD represents a substantial strand of BREXIT thinking within the Conservative party.
However the site is certainly strong enough to withstand robust debate on his views. Certainly he is not backward in coming forward to espouse them and counter argue the many who disagree with him.
PB is not snowflake central as you have certainly realized from the concerted efforts to rubbish your ideas and your hardly pusillanimous responses.
While I disagree with much HYUFD says recently, particularly the way he dismisses fellow conservatives and tells them they should join the Lib Dems, he does have an extensive knowledge of politics and tries to justify his recent conversion to the brexit cause, though I doubt he realises that he really is more suited to TBP
@HYUFD represents a substantial strand of Conservative party thinking. I disagree with it strongly, but piling on him doesn't show the site in a good light.
You are correct that @HYUFD represents a substantial strand of BREXIT thinking within the Conservative party.
However the site is certainly strong enough to withstand robust debate on his views. Certainly he is not backward in coming forward to espouse them and counter argue the many who disagree with him.
PB is not snowflake central as you have certainly realized from the concerted efforts to rubbish your ideas and your hardly pusillanimous responses.
If we leave aside the 2015 revelation that Corbyn was a friend and supporter of Paul Eisen, this has now been a constant running sore for over a year.
At what point would a sensible person have got a grip?
If we lived somewhere where Boris's favourite love Island contestant wasn't front page news it would be possible for Corbyn and co to start asking sensible questions whether it is desirable for Israel to describe itslf as a Jewish State' and to question Mark Regev- ex Israeli propaganda chief current Israeli Ambassador to London-'s part in the continuous stories-real and false-about Corbyn's so called 'anti semitism'.
Would you call England a Christian State?
It's not a state of any kind (except in the sense of being in 'a bit of a')
Boris Johnson disagrees: England has its own legislature, judiciary and jurisdiction, ergo it is state.
The remarkable fact in all this is that the Lib Dems, SNP and Greens have been true to their principles and are rapidly gaining popularity. They are also strong revoke parties and the pendulum is swinging strongly their way
It is evidenced in the huge gains the Lib Dems are making in local elections and predictions coming out of Scotland of a complete wipe out for the conservatives and labour
Unless Boris can achieve a deal it is highly likely the momentum to revoke will overwhelm brexit, and that is especially true in a no deal situation where revoke will become the force de jure
As an ardent Remainer, I would love to revoke. However in many ways, and I agree with HY here, it is politically the most unacceptable option. A deal that looks anything like acceptable to the majority of the Consetvative Party or urban former-Labour voters looks highly unlikely. No deal is fast becoming the only game in town. Stock up, liquidate to cash, it could be a bumpy ride.
The remarkable fact in all this is that the Lib Dems, SNP and Greens have been true to their principles and are rapidly gaining popularity. They are also strong revoke parties and the pendulum is swinging strongly their way
It is evidenced in the huge gains the Lib Dems are making in local elections and predictions coming out of Scotland of a complete wipe out for the conservatives and labour
Unless Boris can achieve a deal it is highly likely the momentum to revoke will overwhelm brexit, and that is especially true in a no deal situation where revoke will become the force de jure
As an ardent Remainer, I would love to revoke. However in many ways, and I agree with HY here, it is politically the most unacceptable option. A deal that looks anything like acceptable to the majority of the Consetvative Party or urban former-Labour voters looks highly unlikely. No deal is fast becoming the only game in town. Stock up, liquidate to cash, it could be a bumpy ride.
Recognising the mural, which purported to show real bankers, at least two of them not Jewish, as based on Nazi propaganda, surely depends on a knowledge of Nazi propaganda. It seems entirely plausible that Corbyn did not see the connection.
He's a senior politician, not a Love Island contestant. The defence that he lacked even the most basic knowledge of Nazi propaganda tropes is incredible.
You do know we had a Brexit Secretary who did not know about Dover, and a Northern Ireland Secretary who did not know the distinction between Loyalists and Nationalists?
And while anyone under 40 may have taken the "Tudors and Nazis" history syllabus, older people will not have done.
So yes, it is entirely plausible Corbyn did not recognise it as such.
Recognising the mural, which purported to show real bankers, at least two of them not Jewish, as based on Nazi propaganda, surely depends on a knowledge of Nazi propaganda. It seems entirely plausible that Corbyn did not see the connection.
He's a senior politician, not a Love Island contestant. The defence that he lacked even the most basic knowledge of Nazi propaganda tropes is incredible.
You do know we had a Brexit Secretary who did not know about Dover, and a Northern Ireland Secretary who did not know the distinction between Loyalists and Nationalists?
And while anyone under 40 may have taken the "Tudors and Nazis" history syllabus, older people will not have done.
So yes, it is entirely plausible Corbyn did not recognise it as such.
So if he cannot recognise anti semitism, how can he claim Labour is not anti semitic?
1. There’ll be a No Deal Brexit 2. The Tories will win the next GE 3. Jeremy Corbyn will remain leader even after Labour lose 4. Boris Johnson will be the last Tory PM in my lifetime 5. If I live my three score & 10 I’ll see the UK break-up 6. It’s bleak 7. Flee, you fools
Do you need a full house to win? I believe you have number 4 wrong.
The remarkable fact in all this is that the Lib Dems, SNP and Greens have been true to their principles and are rapidly gaining popularity. They are also strong revoke parties and the pendulum is swinging strongly their way
It is evidenced in the huge gains the Lib Dems are making in local elections and predictions coming out of Scotland of a complete wipe out for the conservatives and labour
Unless Boris can achieve a deal it is highly likely the momentum to revoke will overwhelm brexit, and that is especially true in a no deal situation where revoke will become the force de jure
As an ardent Remainer, I would love to revoke. However in many ways, and I agree with HY here, it is politically the most unacceptable option. A deal that looks anything like acceptable to the majority of the Consetvative Party or urban former-Labour voters looks highly unlikely. No deal is fast becoming the only game in town. Stock up, liquidate to cash, it could be a bumpy ride.
Completely fing bonkers and even more stupid expecting to win an election amongst the chaos
Agreed it’s demented . You’d go to the country with the background of no deal .
Cameron left Downing Street with an elephant sized turd on the doorstep.
Johnson is going to leave Downing Street with a putrefying whale carcass on the doorstep.
Why do Tory PMs expect everyone else to clean up their mess?
I think in those circumstances, BJ would lose a *substantial* chunk of the 35pc of Tory voters who voted remain in 2016 (whom we were discussing yesterday). He'll quickly find out that a fervently passionate 20 per cent of the electorate who think he should become a saint don't get some sort of golden vote. He'll be in the same boat as Corbyn.. a hard core of extremely keen people who give each other the horn with their fervour, only to find the rest of the country shrugging and scratching their heads.
As someone who (I think) has voted for 4 parties in various elections over the years, I'm not all that bothered if the Tories die. But it must be depressing for remain/one nation/moderate/left-wing Tories.
The remarkable fact in all this is that the Lib Dems, SNP and Greens have been true to their principles and are rapidly gaining popularity. They are also strong revoke parties and the pendulum is swinging strongly their way
It is evidenced in the huge gains the Lib Dems are making in local elections and predictions coming out of Scotland of a complete wipe out for the conservatives and labour
Unless Boris can achieve a deal it is highly likely the momentum to revoke will overwhelm brexit, and that is especially true in a no deal situation where revoke will become the force de jure
As an ardent Remainer, I would love to revoke. However in many ways, and I agree with HY here, it is politically the most unacceptable option. A deal that looks anything like acceptable to the majority of the Consetvative Party or urban former-Labour voters looks highly unlikely. No deal is fast becoming the only game in town. Stock up, liquidate to cash, it could be a bumpy ride.
To Sterling cash, really?
What do the wise investment heads of pb think are the best options for maintaining value/hedging against disaster during the next few months?
1. There’ll be a No Deal Brexit 2. The Tories will win the next GE 3. Jeremy Corbyn will remain leader even after Labour lose 4. Boris Johnson will be the last Tory PM in my lifetime 5. If I live my three score & 10 I’ll see the UK break-up 6. It’s bleak 7. Flee, you fools
If the Tories win the next election, they will have squared the Brexit circle. 4 looks to be wrong in that case.
In a post shared from the retired judge’s Facebook page that has been gaining traction online, Alcala wrote, “It has taken me years to say this publicly but here I go. President Trump is the worst president in the history of this country.”
“Even accepting that Trump has had some successes — and I believe these are few — at his core, his ideology is racism. To me, nothing positive about him could absolve him of his rotten core,” the post continued.
In a follow-up interview with the Austin American-Statesman released on Tuesday, Alcala said that recent tweets from Trump, in which he told four lawmakers to “go back” to their countries, played a role in her decision, telling the paper that she believes Trump is working to exclude “people who look like me.”
“Every day with the Republican Party seemed worse than the day before. Trump speaks about brown people like me as lesser beings,” Alcala, who is a Latina, said. “It’s cliche to say, but the Republican Party left me.”
“I thought that maybe Texas state politics at the Legislature might be better than the national Republican politics, but it was more of the same,” she also said, referring to the support Trump has enjoyed throughout his term in office from the national Republican Party and local chapters...
If we leave aside the 2015 revelation that Corbyn was a friend and supporter of Paul Eisen, this has now been a constant running sore for over a year.
At what point would a sensible person have got a grip?
If we lived somewhere where Boris's favourite love Island contestant wasn't front page news it would be possible for Corbyn and co to start asking sensible questions whether it is desirable for Israel to describe itslf as a Jewish State' and to question Mark Regev- ex Israeli propaganda chief current Israeli Ambassador to London-'s part in the continuous stories-real and false-about Corbyn's so called 'anti semitism'.
Would you call England a Christian State?
Considering the Church of England is the State religion and in the legislature, sadly yes.
I would also call Iran and Saudi Arabia Islamic states. I wonder whether Corbyn finds it racist for Iran to refer to itself as an Islamic state?
To tory no dealers I know you will disagree with Hammond, and perhaps think little of him, but does him being "terrified" and he doesnt seem one for unnecessary strong language, especially blue on blue, not make you think perhaps it is okay to slow down and think this through a bit more before jumping off the cliff?
I'm amazed Rees-Mogg is still a thing. That awful book he bought out rather exposed him as a pseudo-intellectual and a bit of a twit. Simon Heffer, for example, said it read as if it was written by a baboon.
The remarkable fact in all this is that the Lib Dems, SNP and Greens have been true to their principles and are rapidly gaining popularity. They are also strong revoke parties and the pendulum is swinging strongly their way
It is evidenced in the huge gains the Lib Dems are making in local elections and predictions coming out of Scotland of a complete wipe out for the conservatives and labour
Unless Boris can achieve a deal it is highly likely the momentum to revoke will overwhelm brexit, and that is especially true in a no deal situation where revoke will become the force de jure
As an ardent Remainer, I would love to revoke. However in many ways, and I agree with HY here, it is politically the most unacceptable option. A deal that looks anything like acceptable to the majority of the Consetvative Party or urban former-Labour voters looks highly unlikely. No deal is fast becoming the only game in town. Stock up, liquidate to cash, it could be a bumpy ride.
To Sterling cash, really?
What do the wise investment heads of pb think are the best options for maintaining value/hedging against disaster during the next few months?
My money has been put the overseas funds, or in defensive and British equities earning Forex.
But surely most have hedged this way already? I think domestic stocks may well have been oversold, but likely to go cheaper after Brexit, at which point there could be some bargains.
The remarkable fact in all this is that the Lib Dems, SNP and Greens have been true to their principles and are rapidly gaining popularity. They are also strong revoke parties and the pendulum is swinging strongly their way
It is evidenced in the huge gains the Lib Dems are making in local elections and predictions coming out of Scotland of a complete wipe out for the conservatives and labour
Unless Boris can achieve a deal it is highly likely the momentum to revoke will overwhelm brexit, and that is especially true in a no deal situation where revoke will become the force de jure
As an ardent Remainer, I would love to revoke. However in many ways, and I agree with HY here, it is politically the most unacceptable option. A deal that looks anything like acceptable to the majority of the Consetvative Party or urban former-Labour voters looks highly unlikely. No deal is fast becoming the only game in town. Stock up, liquidate to cash, it could be a bumpy ride.
To Sterling cash, really?
What do the wise investment heads of pb think are the best options for maintaining value/hedging against disaster during the next few months?
My money has been put the overseas funds, or in defensive and British equities earning Forex.
But surely most have hedged this way already? I think domestic stocks may well have been oversold, but likely to go cheaper after Brexit, at which point there could be some bargains.
This strategy worked well after the 2016 vote.
Thanks I didnt think no deal was plausible in the spring so didnt change much, still think it far more unlikely than the betting markets but definitely possible this time around.
The remarkable fact in all this is that the Lib Dems, SNP and Greens have been true to their principles and are rapidly gaining popularity. They are also strong revoke parties and the pendulum is swinging strongly their way
It is evidenced in the huge gains the Lib Dems are making in local elections and predictions coming out of Scotland of a complete wipe out for the conservatives and labour
Unless Boris can achieve a deal it is highly likely the momentum to revoke will overwhelm brexit, and that is especially true in a no deal situation where revoke will become the force de jure
As an ardent Remainer, I would love to revoke. However in many ways, and I agree with HY here, it is politically the most unacceptable option. A deal that looks anything like acceptable to the majority of the Consetvative Party or urban former-Labour voters looks highly unlikely. No deal is fast becoming the only game in town. Stock up, liquidate to cash, it could be a bumpy ride.
To Sterling cash, really?
What do the wise investment heads of pb think are the best options for maintaining value/hedging against disaster during the next few months?
My money has been put the overseas funds, or in defensive and British equities earning Forex.
But surely most have hedged this way already? I think domestic stocks may well have been oversold, but likely to go cheaper after Brexit, at which point there could be some bargains.
To tory no dealers I know you will disagree with Hammond, and perhaps think little of him, but does him being "terrified" and he doesnt seem one for unnecessary strong language, especially blue on blue, not make you think perhaps it is okay to slow down and think this through a bit more before jumping off the cliff?
Not for a second. This was the debate that was held before the referendum and since then Nothing Has Changed. Leaving the Single Market and Leaving the Customs Union was officially what the Treasury and others said would happen if we voted to Leave the EU. Since he represents the Treasury, what has changed since then from the Treasuries pre-referendum comments?
If that's his opinion it just shows he was the completely wrong person to take charge of the Exchequer after the referendum result and no wonder we're in this mess. Sooner he's on the backbenches or gone completely the better.
On topic, I agree with Mike that 29% is just about value on Corbyn going, given that there are several routes to this happening.
One he doesn't mention (I assume it has been downthread but haven't had time to read), is the high possibility of a GE and the consequent risk of Lab losing and Corbyn resigning.
Add in the chances of him either being pushed out, throwing the towel in, or going on health grounds and I think there's a little value there (though not much).
If we leave aside the 2015 revelation that Corbyn was a friend and supporter of Paul Eisen, this has now been a constant running sore for over a year.
At what point would a sensible person have got a grip?
If we lived somewhere where Boris's favourite love Island contestant wasn't front page news it would be possible for Corbyn and co to start asking sensible questions whether it is desirable for Israel to describe itslf as a Jewish State' and to question Mark Regev- ex Israeli propaganda chief current Israeli Ambassador to London-'s part in the continuous stories-real and false-about Corbyn's so called 'anti semitism'.
Would you call England a Christian State?
It's not a state of any kind (except in the sense of being in 'a bit of a')
Boris Johnson disagrees: England has its own legislature, judiciary and jurisdiction, ergo it is state.
To tory no dealers I know you will disagree with Hammond, and perhaps think little of him, but does him being "terrified" and he doesnt seem one for unnecessary strong language, especially blue on blue, not make you think perhaps it is okay to slow down and think this through a bit more before jumping off the cliff?
Not for a second. This was the debate that was held before the referendum and since then Nothing Has Changed. Leaving the Single Market and Leaving the Customs Union was officially what the Treasury and others said would happen if we voted to Leave the EU. Since he represents the Treasury, what has changed since then from the Treasuries pre-referendum comments?
If that's his opinion it just shows he was the completely wrong person to take charge of the Exchequer after the referendum result and no wonder we're in this mess. Sooner he's on the backbenches or gone completely the better.
The debate at the referendum was leaving with a deal. Hammond is in favour of leaving with a deal.
Recognising the mural, which purported to show real bankers, at least two of them not Jewish, as based on Nazi propaganda, surely depends on a knowledge of Nazi propaganda. It seems entirely plausible that Corbyn did not see the connection.
He's a senior politician, not a Love Island contestant. The defence that he lacked even the most basic knowledge of Nazi propaganda tropes is incredible.
You do know we had a Brexit Secretary who did not know about Dover, and a Northern Ireland Secretary who did not know the distinction between Loyalists and Nationalists?
And while anyone under 40 may have taken the "Tudors and Nazis" history syllabus, older people will not have done.
So yes, it is entirely plausible Corbyn did not recognise it as such.
Even Lutfur Rahman, hardly an apologist for Israel, said instantly that that mural was antisemitic. That's why he had it removed.
The rest of your post is whataboutery again. Raab is thick and Brady is pig ignorant, therefore it doesn't matter that Corbyn is so dim he can't recognise racism?
On topic, I agree with Mike that 29% is just about value on Corbyn going, given that there are several routes to this happening.
One he doesn't mention (I assume it has been downthread but haven't had time to read), is the high possibility of a GE and the consequent risk of Lab losing and Corbyn resigning.
Add in the chances of him either being pushed out, throwing the towel in, or going on health grounds and I think there's a little value there (though not much).
Corbyn will not resign if Labour lose the next election. He will stay until there is a far left alternative to him that can be confident of winning a leadership election.
You mean, the false stories about him donating to Deir Yassin Remembered, or laying a wreath on a mass murderer's grave and lying about it, or saying the Jews don't get irony, or calling Hamas and Hezbollah his friends, or protesting about a mural being taken down just because it was a piece of Nazi propaganda?
Oh, hold in, those are true, aren't they?
The real issue with Corbyn and Labour more generally is not what their enemies are saying about them, it's what they're actually saying and doing.
Are those the strongest claims of anti semitism against corbyn? There is a reasonable case to be made that the ons
So you do concede he is antisemitic? Well, it's a start.
And calling any organisation that denies the Holocaust a friend, or worse, giving money to it, is also clearly antisemitic.
As was that mural, which was based on Nazi propaganda, and your feeble attempt to ignore it has not gone unnoticed.
Corbyn may not think he is a racist but his excuses for behaviour which in all any non-Labour politician he would rightly roundly condemn border on the asinine.
And as for the whataboutery with regard to Pinochet - are you really saying he's OK because he's done some things that are comparable to Thatcher? That strikes me as a dangerous argument...
Recognising the mural, which purported to show real bankers, at least two of them not Jewish, as based on Nazi propaganda, surely depends on a knowledge of Nazi propaganda. It seems entirely plausible that Corbyn did not see the connection.
If Corbyn didn't recognise the tropes within the mural and think "danger, danger!", then frankly he's utterly clueless.
Worse, he's so clueless that he's in no position to comment on anti-Semitism by anyone - including himself.
Initially, I thought it was anti-masonic (albeit, anti-semites see freemasonry as part of the worldwide conspiracy) but I think you'd have to be a freemason to see it as such.
But, the artist helpfully clarified that it was anti-Semitic.
The remarkable fact in all this is that the Lib Dems, SNP and Greens have been true to their principles and are rapidly gaining popularity. They are also strong revoke parties and the pendulum is swinging strongly their way
It is evidenced in the huge gains the Lib Dems are making in local elections and predictions coming out of Scotland of a complete wipe out for the conservatives and labour
Unless Boris can achieve a deal it is highly likely the momentum to revoke will overwhelm brexit, and that is especially true in a no deal situation where revoke will become the force de jure
As an ardent Remainer, I would love to revoke. However in many ways, and I agree with HY here, it is politically the most unacceptable option. A deal that looks anything like acceptable to the majority of the Consetvative Party or urban former-Labour voters looks highly unlikely. No deal is fast becoming the only game in town. Stock up, liquidate to cash, it could be a bumpy ride.
To Sterling cash, really?
What do the wise investment heads of pb think are the best options for maintaining value/hedging against disaster during the next few months?
My money has been put the overseas funds, or in defensive and British equities earning Forex.
But surely most have hedged this way already? I think domestic stocks may well have been oversold, but likely to go cheaper after Brexit, at which point there could be some bargains.
This strategy worked well after the 2016 vote.
What evidence do you have that "farmers voted Brexit"?
To tory no dealers I know you will disagree with Hammond, and perhaps think little of him, but does him being "terrified" and he doesnt seem one for unnecessary strong language, especially blue on blue, not make you think perhaps it is okay to slow down and think this through a bit more before jumping off the cliff?
Not for a second. This was the debate that was held before the referendum and since then Nothing Has Changed. Leaving the Single Market and Leaving the Customs Union was officially what the Treasury and others said would happen if we voted to Leave the EU. Since he represents the Treasury, what has changed since then from the Treasuries pre-referendum comments?
If that's his opinion it just shows he was the completely wrong person to take charge of the Exchequer after the referendum result and no wonder we're in this mess. Sooner he's on the backbenches or gone completely the better.
For those of us at the back who are slow on the uptake, can you explain how making it harder and more expensive to trade with our biggest export market helps the UK?
@HYUFD represents a substantial strand of Conservative party thinking. I disagree with it strongly, but piling on him doesn't show the site in a good light.
I don't "pile on him". I like and respect his views. I only ever respond to him in that fashion when he starts to tell other people what they think or are or where their political home should be. So I do exactly the same thing to him.
If we leave aside the 2015 revelation that Corbyn was a friend and supporter of Paul Eisen, this has now been a constant running sore for over a year.
At what point would a sensible person have got a grip?
If we lived somewhere where Boris's favourite love Island contestant wasn't front page news it would be possible for Corbyn and co to start asking sensible questions whether it is desirable for Israel to describe itslf as a Jewish State' and to question Mark Regev- ex Israeli propaganda chief current Israeli Ambassador to London-'s part in the continuous stories-real and false-about Corbyn's so called 'anti semitism'.
Would you call England a Christian State?
Considering the Church of England is the State religion and in the legislature, sadly yes.
I would also call Iran and Saudi Arabia Islamic states. I wonder whether Corbyn finds it racist for Iran to refer to itself as an Islamic state?
Indeed and I wonder whether our very own Roger thinks the British state is racist.
@HYUFD represents a substantial strand of Conservative party thinking. I disagree with it strongly, but piling on him doesn't show the site in a good light.
The Jezziah represents a substantial strand of Labour thinking bout I don't see anyone criticising the criticism he gets, which is considerably worse than anything HYUFD gets.
Well quite. And the systematic banning of SNP PBers a few years ago hardly showed the site in a good light either.
Oh I don't know - it was a blessed relief and long overdue a re-run.
The remarkable fact in all this is that the Lib Dems, SNP and Greens have been true to their principles and are rapidly gaining popularity. They are also strong revoke parties and the pendulum is swinging strongly their way
It is evidenced in the huge gains the Lib Dems are making in local elections and predictions coming out of Scotland of a complete wipe out for the conservatives and labour
Unless Boris can achieve a deal it is highly likely the momentum to revoke will overwhelm brexit, and that is especially true in a no deal situation where revoke will become the force de jure
As an ardent Remainer, I would love to revoke. However in many ways, and I agree with HY here, it is politically the most unacceptable option. A deal that looks anything like acceptable to the majority of the Consetvative Party or urban former-Labour voters looks highly unlikely. No deal is fast becoming the only game in town. Stock up, liquidate to cash, it could be a bumpy ride.
To Sterling cash, really?
What do the wise investment heads of pb think are the best options for maintaining value/hedging against disaster during the next few months?
My money has been put the overseas funds, or in defensive and British equities earning Forex.
But surely most have hedged this way already? I think domestic stocks may well have been oversold, but likely to go cheaper after Brexit, at which point there could be some bargains.
This strategy worked well after the 2016 vote.
What evidence do you have that "farmers voted Brexit"?
I don't think that I have said that, as I recall it was a fairly 50/50 split for farmers.
I have no problem with them being compensated for transitional economic shocks, the nature of farming is annual planning.
@HYUFD represents a substantial strand of Conservative party thinking. I disagree with it strongly, but piling on him doesn't show the site in a good light.
The Jezziah represents a substantial strand of Labour thinking bout I don't see anyone criticising the criticism he gets, which is considerably worse than anything HYUFD gets.
Well quite. And the systematic banning of SNP PBers a few years ago hardly showed the site in a good light either.
Oh I don't know - it was a blessed relief and long overdue a re-run.
Proroguing parliament, silencing opponents; you’ll be burning books and demolishing the Tate Modern next.
That has to be good news. Housing costs in the capital are long overdue some deflation.
They need to come down massively for it to make any real difference. And that means a very big public housing programme. More likely, though, is that events in Hong Kong will lead to prices ticking up once more.
@HYUFD represents a substantial strand of Conservative party thinking. I disagree with it strongly, but piling on him doesn't show the site in a good light.
The Jezziah represents a substantial strand of Labour thinking bout I don't see anyone criticising the criticism he gets, which is considerably worse than anything HYUFD gets.
Well quite. And the systematic banning of SNP PBers a few years ago hardly showed the site in a good light either.
Oh I don't know - it was a blessed relief and long overdue a re-run.
Proroguing parliament, silencing opponents; you’ll be burning books and demolishing the Tate Modern next.
As a remain voting moderate Conservative I think you've muddled me with someone else. As for banning people if you have concerns feel free to take it up with OGH. Nowt to do with me.
Lord Hailsham has tabled an amendment which makes suspending parliament more difficult .
The real interest comes tomorrow when the Bill comes back to the Commons ,further amendments can be made to this .
So it’s possible we’ll see some ping pong , given the total ditching of the backstop by Bozo and Hunt the maths might be a little different as some Tories might now vote for a more substantial amendment .
That has to be good news. Housing costs in the capital are long overdue some deflation.
They need to come down massively for it to make any real difference. And that means a very big public housing programme. More likely, though, is that events in Hong Kong will lead to prices ticking up once more.
London is at times too resilient but surely a No Deal Brexit storm will keep things damped down for a while.
If we leave aside the 2015 revelation that Corbyn was a friend and supporter of Paul Eisen, this has now been a constant running sore for over a year.
At what point would a sensible person have got a grip?
If we lived somewhere where Boris's favourite love Island contestant wasn't front page news it would be possible for Corbyn and co to start asking sensible questions whether it is desirable for Israel to describe itslf as a Jewish State' and to question Mark Regev- ex Israeli propaganda chief current Israeli Ambassador to London-'s part in the continuous stories-real and false-about Corbyn's so called 'anti semitism'.
@HYUFD represents a substantial strand of Conservative party thinking. I disagree with it strongly, but piling on him doesn't show the site in a good light.
The Jezziah represents a substantial strand of Labour thinking bout I don't see anyone criticising the criticism he gets, which is considerably worse than anything HYUFD gets.
Well quite. And the systematic banning of SNP PBers a few years ago hardly showed the site in a good light either.
Oh I don't know - it was a blessed relief and long overdue a re-run.
Proroguing parliament, silencing opponents; you’ll be burning books and demolishing the Tate Modern next.
As a remain voting moderate Conservative I think you've muddled me with someone else. As for banning people if you have concerns feel free to take it up with OGH. Nowt to do with me.
Well, in fairness, it is a little bit to do with you, as you just advocated that OGH return to old practices.
About one third of the population are both right wing and pro-Brexit, so I'd say that HYUFD is representative of a lot of voters.
Right wing and anti-Brexit is the unusual position.
Depends on the degree of right-wingery. Most moderates tend to be pro-business and anti-self harm. Brexit zealots tend to be made up of a very small number of bright people who have justified the pain because they have convinced themselves it is the right thing to do, and a very large number of swivel-eyed idiots who are xenophobes and spent too much of their childhood reading war comics, and then a small number of people like Boris Johnson who are not natural right wingers, but are so manipulative that they pretend to be pro-Brexit to gain the support of the afore mentioned groups
Recognising the mural, which purported to show real bankers, at least two of them not Jewish, as based on Nazi propaganda, surely depends on a knowledge of Nazi propaganda. It seems entirely plausible that Corbyn did not see the connection.
He's a senior politician, not a Love Island contestant. The defence that he lacked even the most basic knowledge of Nazi propaganda tropes is incredible.
You do know we had a Brexit Secretary who did not know about Dover, and a Northern Ireland Secretary who did not know the distinction between Loyalists and Nationalists?
And while anyone under 40 may have taken the "Tudors and Nazis" history syllabus, older people will not have done.
So yes, it is entirely plausible Corbyn did not recognise it as such.
Even Lutfur Rahman, hardly an apologist for Israel, said instantly that that mural was antisemitic. That's why he had it removed.
The rest of your post is whataboutery again. Raab is thick and Brady is pig ignorant, therefore it doesn't matter that Corbyn is so dim he can't recognise racism?
I'm not saying it does not matter; I am saying it is unsurprising, both in the context of ministers not knowing what most of us would regard as "common knowledge" (or even common sense) but also in the context that you might recognise as a history teacher. These days, Nazi propaganda is taught in schools; in Corbyn's day (and in my day) it was not.
On topic, I agree with Mike that 29% is just about value on Corbyn going, given that there are several routes to this happening.
One he doesn't mention (I assume it has been downthread but haven't had time to read), is the high possibility of a GE and the consequent risk of Lab losing and Corbyn resigning.
Add in the chances of him either being pushed out, throwing the towel in, or going on health grounds and I think there's a little value there (though not much).
Corbyn will not resign if Labour lose the next election. He will stay until there is a far left alternative to him that can be confident of winning a leadership election.
Until recently, I'd assumed that too but his standing has surely been hit within the Party by his Brexit stance and would be tarnished still further if Labour lost again. I get that for the likes of McClusky and Milne, controlling the Party machine matters more than winning an election but wouldn't by that point it be safer for the far left to dump their failure on Corbyn personally and risk an election with a candidate of their choice, than face another challenge from the centre which they might lose against Corbyn?
And I do think he's beginning to look old. Is he really up for another 5+ years?
@HYUFD represents a substantial strand of Conservative party thinking. I disagree with it strongly, but piling on him doesn't show the site in a good light.
The Jezziah represents a substantial strand of Labour thinking bout I don't see anyone criticising the criticism he gets, which is considerably worse than anything HYUFD gets.
Well quite. And the systematic banning of SNP PBers a few years ago hardly showed the site in a good light either.
Oh I don't know - it was a blessed relief and long overdue a re-run.
Proroguing parliament, silencing opponents; you’ll be burning books and demolishing the Tate Modern next.
"The demolition of the Tate Modern" would be a shoo-in for the Turner Prize.
@HYUFD represents a substantial strand of Conservative party thinking. I disagree with it strongly, but piling on him doesn't show the site in a good light.
The Jezziah represents a substantial strand of Labour thinking bout I don't see anyone criticising the criticism he gets, which is considerably worse than anything HYUFD gets.
Well quite. And the systematic banning of SNP PBers a few years ago hardly showed the site in a good light either.
Oh I don't know - it was a blessed relief and long overdue a re-run.
Proroguing parliament, silencing opponents; you’ll be burning books and demolishing the Tate Modern next.
As a remain voting moderate Conservative I think you've muddled me with someone else. As for banning people if you have concerns feel free to take it up with OGH. Nowt to do with me.
Well, in fairness, it is a little bit to do with you, as you just advocated that OGH return to old practices.
'I'm in favour of something but it'll be nothing to do with me if it happens.'
A fine example of the type of courageous principle so prevalent in today's politics.
If we leave aside the 2015 revelation that Corbyn was a friend and supporter of Paul Eisen, this has now been a constant running sore for over a year.
At what point would a sensible person have got a grip?
If we lived somewhere where Boris's favourite love Island contestant wasn't front page news it would be possible for Corbyn and co to start asking sensible questions whether it is desirable for Israel to describe itslf as a Jewish State' and to question Mark Regev- ex Israeli propaganda chief current Israeli Ambassador to London-'s part in the continuous stories-real and false-about Corbyn's so called 'anti semitism'.
Would you call England a Christian State?
No! Would you?
Yes of course I would you big banana because that's what it is. The Church of England (there is a hint in there) is the STATE church and only a protestant can become king or queen.
On topic, I agree with Mike that 29% is just about value on Corbyn going, given that there are several routes to this happening.
One he doesn't mention (I assume it has been downthread but haven't had time to read), is the high possibility of a GE and the consequent risk of Lab losing and Corbyn resigning.
Add in the chances of him either being pushed out, throwing the towel in, or going on health grounds and I think there's a little value there (though not much).
Corbyn will not resign if Labour lose the next election. He will stay until there is a far left alternative to him that can be confident of winning a leadership election.
Until recently, I'd assumed that too but his standing has surely been hit within the Party by his Brexit stance and would be tarnished still further if Labour lost again. I get that for the likes of McClusky and Milne, controlling the Party machine matters more than winning an election but wouldn't by that point it be safer for the far left to dump their failure on Corbyn personally and risk an election with a candidate of their choice, than face another challenge from the centre which they might lose against Corbyn?
And I do think he's beginning to look old. Is he really up for another 5+ years?
Quite the move. I wonder if the far left will react in kind, or simply embark upon a purge of soon-to-be non-persons.
It is hard to see HOL surviving a Corbyn administration. Reaction will, I assume, be a load of Tory Blairites
It's sufficiently broad-based not to be seen as that. But I think it and even more the letter from the 200 miscellaneous members a few days ago make the mistake of turning the issue into a leadership challenge. The mainstream position of members IMO is (1) There's a problem and the party has been too slow to tackle it, in particular the ridiculously slow disciplinary procedures (2) Attacking people with serious health issues is wrong (whether the staff member who considered suicide or Jennie Formby with cancer) (3) Actually encountering any anti-semitism is extremely rare at local meetings (I never have, in nearly 50 years), and not every complaint is reasonable, so due process is needed (4) The issue is being exaggerated by the media and people whose real agenda is getting a leadership change.
There is a majority who want a clear break with practice to restore confidence in the disciplinary procedures, and also a majority who don't want a leadership change. Peers or others who want the former are making a mistake in trying to turn it into the latter.
That would all make perfect sense save that it ignores the key question. Why is it that this problem has arisen and become worse and persistent since Corbyn became leader? If the leader is part of the problem then it is going to be mighty hard to resolve the problem without a change of leadership or a change of mind in the leadership. And there is little sign of the latter.
@HYUFD represents a substantial strand of Conservative party thinking. I disagree with it strongly, but piling on him doesn't show the site in a good light.
The Jezziah represents a substantial strand of Labour thinking bout I don't see anyone criticising the criticism he gets, which is considerably worse than anything HYUFD gets.
Well quite. And the systematic banning of SNP PBers a few years ago hardly showed the site in a good light either.
Oh I don't know - it was a blessed relief and long overdue a re-run.
Proroguing parliament, silencing opponents; you’ll be burning books and demolishing the Tate Modern next.
"The demolition of the Tate Modern" would be a shoo-in for the Turner Prize.
Haha, very good. It could be the latest work by Tracy Emin
Recognising the mural, which purported to show real bankers, at least two of them not Jewish, as based on Nazi propaganda, surely depends on a knowledge of Nazi propaganda. It seems entirely plausible that Corbyn did not see the connection.
He's a senior politician, not a Love Island contestant. The defence that he lacked even the most basic knowledge of Nazi propaganda tropes is incredible.
You do know we had a Brexit Secretary who did not know about Dover, and a Northern Ireland Secretary who did not know the distinction between Loyalists and Nationalists?
And while anyone under 40 may have taken the "Tudors and Nazis" history syllabus, older people will not have done.
So yes, it is entirely plausible Corbyn did not recognise it as such.
Even Lutfur Rahman, hardly an apologist for Israel, said instantly that that mural was antisemitic. That's why he had it removed.
The rest of your post is whataboutery again. Raab is thick and Brady is pig ignorant, therefore it doesn't matter that Corbyn is so dim he can't recognise racism?
I'm not saying it does not matter; I am saying it is unsurprising, both in the context of ministers not knowing what most of us would regard as "common knowledge" (or even common sense) but also in the context that you might recognise as a history teacher. These days, Nazi propaganda is taught in schools; in Corbyn's day (and in my day) it was not.
OK, clarification accepted.
Can I just make one point? We do not TEACH Nazi propaganda, we teach ABOUT it.
@HYUFD represents a substantial strand of Conservative party thinking. I disagree with it strongly, but piling on him doesn't show the site in a good light.
The Jezziah represents a substantial strand of Labour thinking bout I don't see anyone criticising the criticism he gets, which is considerably worse than anything HYUFD gets.
Well quite. And the systematic banning of SNP PBers a few years ago hardly showed the site in a good light either.
Oh I don't know - it was a blessed relief and long overdue a re-run.
Proroguing parliament, silencing opponents; you’ll be burning books and demolishing the Tate Modern next.
"The demolition of the Tate Modern" would be a shoo-in for the Turner Prize.
Couldn't come soon enough, frankly. Preferably done at the same time as the Serpentine, ideally during the summer party there.
Recognising the mural, which purported to show real bankers, at least two of them not Jewish, as based on Nazi propaganda, surely depends on a knowledge of Nazi propaganda. It seems entirely plausible that Corbyn did not see the connection.
He's a senior politician, not a Love Island contestant. The defence that he lacked even the most basic knowledge of Nazi propaganda tropes is incredible.
You do know we had a Brexit Secretary who did not know about Dover, and a Northern Ireland Secretary who did not know the distinction between Loyalists and Nationalists?
And while anyone under 40 may have taken the "Tudors and Nazis" history syllabus, older people will not have done.
So yes, it is entirely plausible Corbyn did not recognise it as such.
Even Lutfur Rahman, hardly an apologist for Israel, said instantly that that mural was antisemitic. That's why he had it removed.
The rest of your post is whataboutery again. Raab is thick and Brady is pig ignorant, therefore it doesn't matter that Corbyn is so dim he can't recognise racism?
I'm not saying it does not matter; I am saying it is unsurprising, both in the context of ministers not knowing what most of us would regard as "common knowledge" (or even common sense) but also in the context that you might recognise as a history teacher. These days, Nazi propaganda is taught in schools; in Corbyn's day (and in my day) it was not.
I think it is very simple. he is thick as pig shit, but not so thick to realise it was anti-Semitic.
If we leave aside the 2015 revelation that Corbyn was a friend and supporter of Paul Eisen, this has now been a constant running sore for over a year.
At what point would a sensible person have got a grip?
If we lived somewhere where Boris's favourite love Island contestant wasn't front page news it would be possible for Corbyn and co to start asking sensible questions whether it is desirable for Israel to describe itslf as a Jewish State' and to question Mark Regev- ex Israeli propaganda chief current Israeli Ambassador to London-'s part in the continuous stories-real and false-about Corbyn's so called 'anti semitism'.
Would you call England a Christian State?
No! Would you?
Yes of course I would you big banana because that's what it is. The Church of England (there is a hint in there) is the STATE church and only a protestant can become king or queen.
What would you call it?
I see you've skipped from the idea of the English state to the British state and back again. I love these quaint old English..er..British traditions.
If we leave aside the 2015 revelation that Corbyn was a friend and supporter of Paul Eisen, this has now been a constant running sore for over a year.
At what point would a sensible person have got a grip?
If we lived somewhere where Boris's favourite love Island contestant wasn't front page news it would be possible for Corbyn and co to start asking sensible questions whether it is desirable for Israel to describe itslf as a Jewish State' and to question Mark Regev- ex Israeli propaganda chief current Israeli Ambassador to London-'s part in the continuous stories-real and false-about Corbyn's so called 'anti semitism'.
Would you call England a Christian State?
No! Would you?
Yes of course I would you big banana because that's what it is. The Church of England (there is a hint in there) is the STATE church and only a protestant can become king or queen.
What would you call it?
I see you've skipped from the idea of the English state to the British state and back again. I love these quaint old English..er..British traditions.
As BoJo put it:
Take Scotland away from England and you are losing a critical part of our political nomenclature. There was no British government before the union with Scotland; there was no British electorate; there were no British interests. There was England and Wales, and there was Scotland. Take away Scotland, and we destroy Britain.
If we leave aside the 2015 revelation that Corbyn was a friend and supporter of Paul Eisen, this has now been a constant running sore for over a year.
At what point would a sensible person have got a grip?
If we lived somewhere where Boris's favourite love Island contestant wasn't front page news it would be possible for Corbyn and co to start asking sensible questions whether it is desirable for Israel to describe itslf as a Jewish State' and to question Mark Regev- ex Israeli propaganda chief current Israeli Ambassador to London-'s part in the continuous stories-real and false-about Corbyn's so called 'anti semitism'.
Would you call England a Christian State?
No! Would you?
Yes of course I would you big banana because that's what it is. The Church of England (there is a hint in there) is the STATE church and only a protestant can become king or queen.
What would you call it?
I see you've skipped from the idea of the English state to the British state and back again. I love these quaint old English..er..British traditions.
If we leave aside the 2015 revelation that Corbyn was a friend and supporter of Paul Eisen, this has now been a constant running sore for over a year.
At what point would a sensible person have got a grip?
If we lived somewhere where Boris's favourite love Island contestant wasn't front page news it would be possible for Corbyn and co to start asking sensible questions whether it is desirable for Israel to describe itslf as a Jewish State' and to question Mark Regev- ex Israeli propaganda chief current Israeli Ambassador to London-'s part in the continuous stories-real and false-about Corbyn's so called 'anti semitism'.
Would you call England a Christian State?
No! Would you?
Yes of course I would you big banana because that's what it is. The Church of England (there is a hint in there) is the STATE church and only a protestant can become king or queen.
What would you call it?
I see you've skipped from the idea of the English state to the British state and back again. I love these quaint old English..er..British traditions.
As the man from wiki puts it:
While the United Kingdom as a whole has no official religion, the Church of England remains the state church of its largest constituent country, England. The Monarch of the United Kingdom is the Supreme Governor of the Church, and accordingly, only a Protestant may inherit the British throne.
On topic, I agree with Mike that 29% is just about value on Corbyn going, given that there are several routes to this happening.
One he doesn't mention (I assume it has been downthread but haven't had time to read), is the high possibility of a GE and the consequent risk of Lab losing and Corbyn resigning.
Add in the chances of him either being pushed out, throwing the towel in, or going on health grounds and I think there's a little value there (though not much).
Corbyn will not resign if Labour lose the next election. He will stay until there is a far left alternative to him that can be confident of winning a leadership election.
Until recently, I'd assumed that too but his standing has surely been hit within the Party by his Brexit stance and would be tarnished still further if Labour lost again. I get that for the likes of McClusky and Milne, controlling the Party machine matters more than winning an election but wouldn't by that point it be safer for the far left to dump their failure on Corbyn personally and risk an election with a candidate of their choice, than face another challenge from the centre which they might lose against Corbyn?
And I do think he's beginning to look old. Is he really up for another 5+ years?
There are significant splits at the top, though. Corbyn is what is keeping it all together. That will remain the case. Nick Palmer is an entirely representative Labour member - he will stand with Corbyn until the very end no matter what, but his vote in the next leadership election cannot be taken for granted. Until it can be, there will be no leadership election. The far left has waited so long to gain control of Labour that it will do nothing to risk losing it. That's why Corbyn will carry on regardless, whatever the costs to his health, and why there will never be independent oversight of anti-Semitism complaints (or any other kind).
Recognising the mural, which purported to show real bankers, at least two of them not Jewish, as based on Nazi propaganda, surely depends on a knowledge of Nazi propaganda. It seems entirely plausible that Corbyn did not see the connection.
He's a senior politician, not a Love Island contestant. The defence that he lacked even the most basic knowledge of Nazi propaganda tropes is incredible.
You do know we had a Brexit Secretary who did not know about Dover, and a Northern Ireland Secretary who did not know the distinction between Loyalists and Nationalists?
And while anyone under 40 may have taken the "Tudors and Nazis" history syllabus, older people will not have done.
So yes, it is entirely plausible Corbyn did not recognise it as such.
Even Lutfur Rahman, hardly an apologist for Israel, said instantly that that mural was antisemitic. That's why he had it removed.
The rest of your post is whataboutery again. Raab is thick and Brady is pig ignorant, therefore it doesn't matter that Corbyn is so dim he can't recognise racism?
I'm not saying it does not matter; I am saying it is unsurprising, both in the context of ministers not knowing what most of us would regard as "common knowledge" (or even common sense) but also in the context that you might recognise as a history teacher. These days, Nazi propaganda is taught in schools; in Corbyn's day (and in my day) it was not.
OK, clarification accepted.
Can I just make one point? We do not TEACH Nazi propaganda, we teach ABOUT it.
Just like when we say that @Cyclefree is a market abuse expert, what we actually mean is...
If we leave aside the 2015 revelation that Corbyn was a friend and supporter of Paul Eisen, this has now been a constant running sore for over a year.
At what point would a sensible person have got a grip?
If we lived somewhere where Boris's favourite love Island contestant wasn't front page news it would be possible for Corbyn and co to start asking sensible questions whether it is desirable for Israel to describe itslf as a Jewish State' and to question Mark Regev- ex Israeli propaganda chief current Israeli Ambassador to London-'s part in the continuous stories-real and false-about Corbyn's so called 'anti semitism'.
Would you call England a Christian State?
No! Would you?
Yes of course I would you big banana because that's what it is. The Church of England (there is a hint in there) is the STATE church and only a protestant can become king or queen.
What would you call it?
I see you've skipped from the idea of the English state to the British state and back again. I love these quaint old English..er..British traditions.
Scotland has an established church as well.
But one with zero legislative or constitutional oversight.
Labour List is a good bellwether for Labour opinion not tied to any faction, and their self-selecting poll (albeit technically voodoo, i.e. not a balanced panel) are a good sign of the way the wind is blowing. Current one is here:
Quite the move. I wonder if the far left will react in kind, or simply embark upon a purge of soon-to-be non-persons.
It is hard to see HOL surviving a Corbyn administration. Reaction will, I assume, be a load of Tory Blairites
It's sufficiently broad-based not to be seen as that. But I think it and even more the letter from the 200 miscellaneous members a few days ago make the mistake of turning the issue into a leadership challenge. The mainstream position of members IMO is (1) There's a problem and the party has been too slow to tackle it, in particular the ridiculously slow disciplinary procedures (2) Attacking people with serious health issues is wrong (whether the staff member who considered suicide or Jennie Formby with cancer) (3) Actually encountering any anti-semitism is extremely rare at local meetings (I never have, in nearly 50 years), and not every complaint is reasonable, so due process is needed (4) The issue is being exaggerated by the media and people whose real agenda is getting a leadership change.
There is a majority who want a clear break with practice to restore confidence in the disciplinary procedures, and also a majority who don't want a leadership change. Peers or others who want the former are making a mistake in trying to turn it into the latter.
That would all make perfect sense save that it ignores the key question. Why is it that this problem has arisen and become worse and persistent since Corbyn became leader? If the leader is part of the problem then it is going to be mighty hard to resolve the problem without a change of leadership or a change of mind in the leadership. And there is little sign of the latter.
There are three strands and Corbyn is a coincidence for two of them. 1) An inexplicable fascination with Middle East geopolitics (and a failure to note Israel is the safe place to live if you are gay or a trades unionist or even if you just want to hold a banner saying the Prime Minister's a corrupt fool; and lately even if you are the "wrong sort" of muslim.) 2) Militant and assorted tankies that Kinnock slung out rejoining, and aiui that is Ed Miliband's fault. This is where a lot of the abuse of (say) Luciana Berger came from. Their motivation is not antisemitic but anti anyone to the right of Joe Stalin. 3) Public school communists like Seamus Milne running Corbyn like a puppet show.
The real issue with Corbyn and Labour more generally is not what their enemies are saying about them, it's what they're actually saying and doing.
Are those the strongest claims of anti semitism against corbyn?
There is nothing anti semitic about calling Hezbollah friends. I know many very sane Lebanese Christians who would say exactly the same. They have done more for the poor in Lebanon than any other organisation over the last twenty five years. Their crime is that they defended their country from an Israel invasion relatively successfully. As for laying wreaths,,,for God's sake Thathcher had Pinochet home for tea. People dead or alive are multi faceted. If you haven't been you should visit Lebanon. An intelligent population which might give you a mre rounded view of Middle Eastern politics
So you do concede he is antisemitic? Well, it's a start.
And calling any organisation that denies the Holocaust a friend, or worse, giving money to it, is also clearly antisemitic.
As was that mural, which was based on Nazi propaganda, and your feeble attempt to ignore it has not gone unnoticed.
Corbyn may not think he is a racist but his excuses for behaviour which in all any non-Labour politician he would rightly roundly condemn border on the asinine.
And as for the whataboutery with regard to Pinochet - are you really saying he's OK because he's done some things that are comparable to Thatcher? That strikes me as a dangerous argument...
Recognising the mural, which purported to show real bankers, at least two of them not Jewish, as based on Nazi propaganda, surely depends on a knowledge of Nazi propaganda. It seems entirely plausible that Corbyn did not see the connection.
If Corbyn didn't recognise the tropes within the mural and think "danger, danger!", then frankly he's utterly clueless.
Worse, he's so clueless that he's in no position to comment on anti-Semitism by anyone - including himself.
Nor does it fit with his oft-repeated claim that he has been a lifelong campaigner against racism. Despite asking several times I've never seen the evidence for it but someone who has fought racism all their life should be able to spot a pretty obvious anti-Semitic trope.
Frankly, the wish on the part of some on here to disregard and diminish the very deeply held concerns of the Jewish community about what is happening in the main opposition party demeans them.
Labour List is a good bellwether for Labour opinion not tied to any faction, and their self-selecting poll (albeit technically voodoo, i.e. not a balanced panel) are a good sign of the way the wind is blowing. Current one is here:
@HYUFD represents a substantial strand of Conservative party thinking. I disagree with it strongly, but piling on him doesn't show the site in a good light.
The Jezziah represents a substantial strand of Labour thinking bout I don't see anyone criticising the criticism he gets, which is considerably worse than anything HYUFD gets.
Well quite. And the systematic banning of SNP PBers a few years ago hardly showed the site in a good light either.
Oh I don't know - it was a blessed relief and long overdue a re-run.
Proroguing parliament, silencing opponents; you’ll be burning books and demolishing the Tate Modern next.
"The demolition of the Tate Modern" would be a shoo-in for the Turner Prize.
Haha, very good. It could be the latest work by Tracy Emin
Almost as great a day for British art as the day that Charles Saatchi's warehouse went up in flames.
@HYUFD represents a substantial strand of Conservative party thinking. I disagree with it strongly, but piling on him doesn't show the site in a good light.
The Jezziah represents a substantial strand of Labour thinking bout I don't see anyone criticising the criticism he gets, which is considerably worse than anything HYUFD gets.
Well quite. And the systematic banning of SNP PBers a few years ago hardly showed the site in a good light either.
Oh I don't know - it was a blessed relief and long overdue a re-run.
Proroguing parliament, silencing opponents; you’ll be burning books and demolishing the Tate Modern next.
As a remain voting moderate Conservative I think you've muddled me with someone else. As for banning people if you have concerns feel free to take it up with OGH. Nowt to do with me.
Well, in fairness, it is a little bit to do with you, as you just advocated that OGH return to old practices.
I suspect OGH has very good reasons for his banning decisions when they happen. In that sense you are right but I have no role in making them.
Comments
2. The Tories will win the next GE
3. Jeremy Corbyn will remain leader even after Labour lose
4. Boris Johnson will be the last Tory PM in my lifetime
5. If I live my three score & 10 I’ll see the UK break-up
6. It’s bleak
7. Flee, you fools
https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-avoids-scotland-brands-17280784.amp
And while anyone under 40 may have taken the "Tudors and Nazis" history syllabus, older people will not have done.
So yes, it is entirely plausible Corbyn did not recognise it as such.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/jul/17/andrea-camilleri-beloved-creator-of-inspector-montalbano-dies-aged-93
As someone who (I think) has voted for 4 parties in various elections over the years, I'm not all that bothered if the Tories die. But it must be depressing for remain/one nation/moderate/left-wing Tories.
Remainers will be highly motivated for revenge.
Democrats will be appalled at how No Deal is forced through.
BXP Leavers will be ungrateful, as no Brexit will appease them.
Labour Leavers will be free to vote Corbyn, as Brexit will have happened.
Boris is doomed if that is his plan, even if he can push it through.
The government admitting there will have to be a large scale slaughter of sheep in a no deal but hey no problem they will be compensated.
As with other sectors , the Sunny Uplands has been replaced by tax payers stumping up money to compensate them .
And this is all self inflicted. It confirms the lunacy that’s overtaken the country .
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/453434-former-texas-judge-leaves-gop-over-trump
Elsa Alcala, a former Republican judge who once sat on the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, said Monday that she has decided to leave the Republican Party after decades, citing President Trump’s “racism,” the Austin American-Statesman reports.
In a post shared from the retired judge’s Facebook page that has been gaining traction online, Alcala wrote, “It has taken me years to say this publicly but here I go. President Trump is the worst president in the history of this country.”
“Even accepting that Trump has had some successes — and I believe these are few — at his core, his ideology is racism. To me, nothing positive about him could absolve him of his rotten core,” the post continued.
In a follow-up interview with the Austin American-Statesman released on Tuesday, Alcala said that recent tweets from Trump, in which he told four lawmakers to “go back” to their countries, played a role in her decision, telling the paper that she believes Trump is working to exclude “people who look like me.”
“Every day with the Republican Party seemed worse than the day before. Trump speaks about brown people like me as lesser beings,” Alcala, who is a Latina, said. “It’s cliche to say, but the Republican Party left me.”
“I thought that maybe Texas state politics at the Legislature might be better than the national Republican politics, but it was more of the same,” she also said, referring to the support Trump has enjoyed throughout his term in office from the national Republican Party and local chapters...
I would also call Iran and Saudi Arabia Islamic states. I wonder whether Corbyn finds it racist for Iran to refer to itself as an Islamic state?
But surely most have hedged this way already? I think domestic stocks may well have been oversold, but likely to go cheaper after Brexit, at which point there could be some bargains.
This strategy worked well after the 2016 vote.
If that's his opinion it just shows he was the completely wrong person to take charge of the Exchequer after the referendum result and no wonder we're in this mess. Sooner he's on the backbenches or gone completely the better.
One he doesn't mention (I assume it has been downthread but haven't had time to read), is the high possibility of a GE and the consequent risk of Lab losing and Corbyn resigning.
Add in the chances of him either being pushed out, throwing the towel in, or going on health grounds and I think there's a little value there (though not much).
A nice demonstration that Leave central doesn't really give much of a damn about the rest of us.
The rest of your post is whataboutery again. Raab is thick and Brady is pig ignorant, therefore it doesn't matter that Corbyn is so dim he can't recognise racism?
But, the artist helpfully clarified that it was anti-Semitic.
Right wing and anti-Brexit is the unusual position.
Looks like 52% of them have brains, much like 48% of the rest of the population
I have no problem with them being compensated for transitional economic shocks, the nature of farming is annual planning.
Lord Hailsham has tabled an amendment which makes suspending parliament more difficult .
The real interest comes tomorrow when the Bill comes back to the Commons ,further amendments can be made to this .
So it’s possible we’ll see some ping pong , given the total ditching of the backstop by Bozo and Hunt the maths might be a little different as some Tories might now vote for a more substantial amendment .
And I do think he's beginning to look old. Is he really up for another 5+ years?
A fine example of the type of courageous principle so prevalent in today's politics.
What would you call it?
Can I just make one point? We do not TEACH Nazi propaganda, we teach ABOUT it.
https://twitter.com/PhilipHammondUK/status/1151416588609957888
I love these quaint old English..er..British traditions.
Take Scotland away from England and you are losing a critical part of our political nomenclature. There was no British government before the union with Scotland; there was no British electorate; there were no British interests. There was England and Wales, and there was Scotland. Take away Scotland, and we destroy Britain.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11080893/Scottish-independence-Decapitate-Britain-and-we-kill-off-the-greatest-political-union-ever.html
While the United Kingdom as a whole has no official religion, the Church of England remains the state church of its largest constituent country, England. The Monarch of the United Kingdom is the Supreme Governor of the Church, and accordingly, only a Protestant may inherit the British throne.
Just more Leave hypocrisy .
https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1151422401864974336
https://labourlist.org/2019/07/labourlist-readers-back-full-selections-for-mps-in-latest-survey/
1) An inexplicable fascination with Middle East geopolitics (and a failure to note Israel is the safe place to live if you are gay or a trades unionist or even if you just want to hold a banner saying the Prime Minister's a corrupt fool; and lately even if you are the "wrong sort" of muslim.)
2) Militant and assorted tankies that Kinnock slung out rejoining, and aiui that is Ed Miliband's fault. This is where a lot of the abuse of (say) Luciana Berger came from. Their motivation is not antisemitic but anti anyone to the right of Joe Stalin.
3) Public school communists like Seamus Milne running Corbyn like a puppet show.
Frankly, the wish on the part of some on here to disregard and diminish the very deeply held concerns of the Jewish community about what is happening in the main opposition party demeans them.
https://twitter.com/GeneralBoles/status/1151442857070346241