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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » 64 LAB peers pay for Guardian ad to tell Corbyn that he fails

SystemSystem Posts: 11,007
edited July 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » 64 LAB peers pay for Guardian ad to tell Corbyn that he fails the test of leadership

The wording of the ad above is powerful and will get a lot of attention but the question is how will it impact on the future of the Labour leader who won the job convincingly in the 2015 leadership election and retained it a year later.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    From what I can read of it, the wording would better be described as "accurate" than "smart".
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    Very powerful advertisement. We are well past peak-Corbyn and perhaps a health scare and dignified exit does beckon.
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    TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    edited July 2019
    To what question is Rebecca Long--Bailey the answer?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378
    Tabman said:

    To what question is Rebecca Long--Bailey the answer?

    ‘Who do. you think ,most likely to succeed Corbyn ?’

    When Mike says she is his favourite, I’m not sure he means he’s a fan of hers....
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,531
    Boris or Jezza, or the oleaginous Farage? What a shit-show to take back control.

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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Tabman said:

    To what question is Rebecca Long--Bailey the answer?

    Who is currently the betting favourite to succeed Jeremy Corbyn?

    I think that is all.
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    TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    Nigelb said:

    Tabman said:

    To what question is Rebecca Long--Bailey the answer?

    ‘Who do. you think ,most likely to succeed Corbyn ?’

    When Mike says she is his favourite, I’m not sure he means he’s a fan of hers....
    Yes, it was rhetorical. She's possibly the least impressive of a very lightweight bunch. Who is putting her there and why? Genuine question.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited July 2019
    Apparently Rebecca Long-Bailey has acquired the nickname of Rebecca Wrong Daily which rhymes.

    As to my views I was simply reporting the fact that she is the betting favourite.
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    TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046

    Apparently Rebecca Long-Bailey has acquired the nickname of Rebecca Wrong Daily which rhymes

    Yes I'd heard that too Mike.

    Is she viewed as a malleable Corbynite whom Seumas can continue to control?
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    The argument the ad makes is one that I've made on here. Arguing about whether Corbyn is personally anti-Semitic is a distraction from his failure as party leader to deal competently with anti-Semitism in the Labour party, and that failure of leadership destroys any credibility that he might be able to make the country better by leading it as Prime Minister.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,531

    Apparently Rebecca Long-Bailey has acquired the nickname of Rebecca Wrong Daily which rhymes.

    As to my views I was simply reporting the fact that she is the betting favourite.

    Hard to see Labour reviving without a Kinnock style purge of the new Militant Tendency, and I don't see RLB as capable of that. Rayner or Thornbury possibly, but maybe a real bruiser like Watson is needed. Not my party though.

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    TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    Foxy said:

    Apparently Rebecca Long-Bailey has acquired the nickname of Rebecca Wrong Daily which rhymes.

    As to my views I was simply reporting the fact that she is the betting favourite.

    Hard to see Labour reviving without a Kinnock style purge of the new Militant Tendency, and I don't see RLB as capable of that. Rayner or Thornbury possibly, but maybe a real bruiser like Watson is needed. Not my party though.

    Militant are now in control and if any purging is going on it's in the opposite direction
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Foxy said:

    Apparently Rebecca Long-Bailey has acquired the nickname of Rebecca Wrong Daily which rhymes.

    As to my views I was simply reporting the fact that she is the betting favourite.

    Hard to see Labour reviving without a Kinnock style purge of the new Militant Tendency, and I don't see RLB as capable of that. Rayner or Thornbury possibly, but maybe a real bruiser like Watson is needed. Not my party though.

    Have they reduced the threshold of support from MPs required for nomination yet.

    I can't remember what level of MP support is needed to get onto the membership ballot.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Will it have the same effect as the 364 economists letter to the Times?
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    TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    Tabman said:

    To what question is Rebecca Long--Bailey the answer?

    What is an anagram of "a legible Corbyn ace"?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    Tabman said:

    To what question is Rebecca Long--Bailey the answer?

    Who would make Labour nostalgic for Jeremy Corbyn?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Good morning, everyone.

    Quite the move. I wonder if the far left will react in kind, or simply embark upon a purge of soon-to-be non-persons.
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited July 2019

    Good morning, everyone.

    Quite the move. I wonder if the far left will react in kind, or simply embark upon a purge of soon-to-be non-persons.

    It is hard to see HOL surviving a Corbyn administration.
    Reaction will, I assume, be a load of Tory Blairites
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    Corbyn won't care one bit about this advert.
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited July 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    Corbyn won't care one bit about this advert.

    I doubt he'll see it, I'm not sure he reads right wing tabloid papers.

    Enjoy Tatton today.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    philiph said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Corbyn won't care one bit about this advert.

    I doubt he'll see it, I'm not sure he reads right wing tabloid papers.
    Are we sure he can read?
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,437
    I don’t see what fundamentals have changed that would allow for Corbyn to be forced out involuntarily.

    The problem is that the hardliners in the membership heard all this “Corbyn will be a disaster for Labour in a GE” before. And as it turns out, his GE performance wasn’t a disaster. So it’s very easy to explain away all this complaining as more of the same.

    Of course, he didn’t win the GE. And I strongly doubt he’d win a GE held tomorrow. But he needs another loss before people will seriously consider getting rid of him IMHO.
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    Tabman said:

    To what question is Rebecca Long--Bailey the answer?

    "Who is a member of the hard left who would be less disastrous than Corbyn and hasn't already indicated they don't want the leadership?"

    There are people on the Labour front bench who would probably do better than her (Starmer, Rayner, Thornberry, for example), but RLB is from the Corbyn gang which gives her a huge head start with the membership.

    The key question is whether she'd keep Milne and Corbyn's other Trot and Tankie mates in place. If so, the benefit to Labour would be limited. But even if she did, she at least doesn't have a personal history of, to put it kindly, borderline antisemitic remarks.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,225
    Good lead, although I don’t fancy the bet. Small typo, weather.
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    TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046

    Tabman said:

    To what question is Rebecca Long--Bailey the answer?

    "Who is a member of the hard left who would be less disastrous than Corbyn and hasn't already indicated they don't want the leadership?"

    There are people on the Labour front bench who would probably do better than her (Starmer, Rayner, Thornberry, for example), but RLB is from the Corbyn gang which gives her a huge head start with the membership.

    The key question is whether she'd keep Milne and Corbyn's other Trot and Tankie mates in place. If so, the benefit to Labour would be limited. But even if she did, she at least doesn't have a personal history of, to put it kindly, borderline antisemitic remarks.
    Interesting, thanks.

    Does she have any independent views or is she a creature of the 4Ms?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Since Jeremy Corbyn does not appoint peers, this makes his task of getting things through the Lords in future still harder.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,225
    edited July 2019
    Who knew?

    Boris Johnson has been accused of repeatedly ignoring expert advice on the viability of his so-called vanity projects as London mayor, leaving taxpayers with a bill of nearly £1bn and rising.

    Some of those who worked closely with Johnson as mayor, including fellow Conservatives, told the Guardian that he defied senior officials over a string of profligate projects and resisted being held to account for their ballooning costs.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/16/boris-johnson-accused-of-costing-taxpayers-1bn-on-london-mayor-projects

    “He could be incredibly profligate for the country. He’s great on rhetoric but lousy on delivery.” (says fellow Tory)
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,982
    Scott_P said:
    I've seen Boris on a few different bikes - all garbage. He had a Marin hybrid for a while before the Halfords special he trundles around on now.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    Apparently Rebecca Long-Bailey has acquired the nickname of Rebecca Wrong Daily which rhymes.

    As to my views I was simply reporting the fact that she is the betting favourite.

    What do people who bet on politics know?

    After all, they kept telling us to lay favourite Boris.....
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,225
    Boris’s cost to London:

    Garden Bridge (that never happened) = £52 million
    New Routemaster bus = £321 million
    Cable Car to nowhere = £24 million
    Useless water cannon = £0.3 million
    Bike Scheme subsidy = £225 million (supposed to make a profit, as does Paris)
    Island Airport study = £5 million
    Olympic Stadium conversion = £305 million
    Stratford Helter-skelter = £6 million
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    Tabman said:



    Interesting, thanks.

    Does she have any independent views or is she a creature of the 4Ms?

    It's really hard to tell, because most of them avoid criticising JC. Based on recent comments you might conclude Starmer was hard left, which he definitely isn't. She's gone off-message in a minor way over Europe and tends to be noticeably absent when the loyalists are defending JC over the latest antisemitism scandal. I'd say she's someone whose hard left views are independent of any particular factional loyalty. She's also relatively new in parliament, which means she isn't one of the gang who've all known each other for decades.

    However I'm not well plugged into Momentum so could be missing something.
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    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_P said:
    I've seen Boris on a few different bikes - all garbage. He had a Marin hybrid for a while before the Halfords special he trundles around on now.
    It's a bit like Trigger's Broom...
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_P said:
    I've seen Boris on a few different bikes - all garbage. He had a Marin hybrid for a while before the Halfords special he trundles around on now.
    Smart decision given the number of thieving b******* in London.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_P said:
    I've seen Boris on a few different bikes - all garbage. He had a Marin hybrid for a while before the Halfords special he trundles around on now.
    I'm very proud of my Pashley. It's heavy and slow which stops me from trying to race everyone.
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    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    tlg86 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_P said:
    I've seen Boris on a few different bikes - all garbage. He had a Marin hybrid for a while before the Halfords special he trundles around on now.
    Smart decision given the number of thieving b******* in London.
    Quite. I've had my decent bike nicked in plain sight in Oxford (fortunately I caught the thief making off with it), let alone London.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    IanB2 said:

    Boris’s cost to London:

    Garden Bridge (that never happened) = £52 million
    New Routemaster bus = £321 million
    Cable Car to nowhere = £24 million
    Useless water cannon = £0.3 million
    Bike Scheme subsidy = £225 million (supposed to make a profit, as does Paris)
    Island Airport study = £5 million
    Olympic Stadium conversion = £305 million
    Stratford Helter-skelter = £6 million

    Just the rounding error on an NHS IT project.....
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    The Labour Party in 2019 :

    FOR THE MANY NOT THE JEW
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    TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046

    Tabman said:



    Interesting, thanks.

    Does she have any independent views or is she a creature of the 4Ms?

    It's really hard to tell, because most of them avoid criticising JC. Based on recent comments you might conclude Starmer was hard left, which he definitely isn't. She's gone off-message in a minor way over Europe and tends to be noticeably absent when the loyalists are defending JC over the latest antisemitism scandal. I'd say she's someone whose hard left views are independent of any particular factional loyalty. She's also relatively new in parliament, which means she isn't one of the gang who've all known each other for decades.

    However I'm not well plugged into Momentum so could be missing something.
    Thanks that's really helpful.

    I must confess the one Labour MP I really don't get is Keir Starmer. He looks and sounds like a Blairite and is clearly at odds with the Trots. Why does he stay?
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    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_P said:
    I've seen Boris on a few different bikes - all garbage. He had a Marin hybrid for a while before the Halfords special he trundles around on now.
    I'm very proud of my Pashley. It's heavy and slow which stops me from trying to race everyone.
    Though taking out roadies while accelerating away from the lights on a Boris Bike, or Brompton, is one of the great pleasures of cycling in London.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    I have been saying for a while that Laura Pidcock is the one to follow as next Labour leader. I am not sure of the current odds, but they are probably way too long.

    That said, Corbyn is not going anywhere for a very long time. I'd expect him to stay on even when Labour loses the next election.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,916

    IanB2 said:

    Boris’s cost to London:

    Garden Bridge (that never happened) = £52 million
    New Routemaster bus = £321 million
    Cable Car to nowhere = £24 million
    Useless water cannon = £0.3 million
    Bike Scheme subsidy = £225 million (supposed to make a profit, as does Paris)
    Island Airport study = £5 million
    Olympic Stadium conversion = £305 million
    Stratford Helter-skelter = £6 million

    Just the rounding error on an NHS IT project.....
    Of those, I've got no real problem with 'studies' into possible new infrastructure, although it's always interesting that they seem to cost many millions.

    If you don't do such studies, you're more likely to build the wrong thing, or not build what you need.

    I'm amazed the bike scheme cost so much, though.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,916

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_P said:
    I've seen Boris on a few different bikes - all garbage. He had a Marin hybrid for a while before the Halfords special he trundles around on now.
    I'm very proud of my Pashley. It's heavy and slow which stops me from trying to race everyone.
    Though taking out roadies while accelerating away from the lights on a Boris Bike, or Brompton, is one of the great pleasures of cycling in London.
    " taking out roadies "

    What does that lingo mean?
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914

    IanB2 said:

    Boris’s cost to London:

    Garden Bridge (that never happened) = £52 million
    New Routemaster bus = £321 million
    Cable Car to nowhere = £24 million
    Useless water cannon = £0.3 million
    Bike Scheme subsidy = £225 million (supposed to make a profit, as does Paris)
    Island Airport study = £5 million
    Olympic Stadium conversion = £305 million
    Stratford Helter-skelter = £6 million

    Just the rounding error on an NHS IT project.....

    Johnson is a world class waster of money because he is not interested in detail. He wasted £1 billion when given the London mayoral budget to look after. The UK one is many times bigger. The sky's the limit for the entirely self-interested, bone idle one.

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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Apparently Rebecca Long-Bailey has acquired the nickname of Rebecca Wrong Daily which rhymes.

    As to my views I was simply reporting the fact that she is the betting favourite.

    What do people who bet on politics know?

    After all, they kept telling us to lay favourite Boris.....
    If they've been telling you to lay all the favourites since May was elected you will be well in profit, even if the final favourite wins. It's a bit like betting on Love Island.

    Which brings us to the most important question of the Tory leadership election, who will win Love Island?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io1NxnU08CU
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    kjhkjh Posts: 10,573

    IanB2 said:

    Boris’s cost to London:

    Garden Bridge (that never happened) = £52 million
    New Routemaster bus = £321 million
    Cable Car to nowhere = £24 million
    Useless water cannon = £0.3 million
    Bike Scheme subsidy = £225 million (supposed to make a profit, as does Paris)
    Island Airport study = £5 million
    Olympic Stadium conversion = £305 million
    Stratford Helter-skelter = £6 million

    Just the rounding error on an NHS IT project.....
    That's ok then!
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Vaguely on-topic, Boris and Hunt on racist tweets:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNc--_jIkQc
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    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,201
    Unusual Tuesday vote for a LD defence on Cardiff UA last night... Another strong swing against the Tories...
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378
    ydoethur said:

    Tabman said:

    To what question is Rebecca Long--Bailey the answer?

    Who would make Labour nostalgic for Jeremy Corbyn?
    That’s hardly a list of one, though.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited July 2019
    Long Bailey would turn the Labour Party into a little niche outfit on the left scrabbling around for weido's votes like UKIP does on the right. A catchy name is useful but a Labout renaissance needs more than that..

    OT. Last night at Nice airport I was in a passport queue which took well over an hour. There was ONE person checking the passports of 150 people.

    I have no idea whether it was deliberate but it felt like it. He checked every passport thoroughly. When I loudly suggested this was to be our bright new future with Boris there were a lot of murmers of agreement.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    IanB2 said:

    Boris’s cost to London:

    Garden Bridge (that never happened) = £52 million
    New Routemaster bus = £321 million
    Cable Car to nowhere = £24 million
    Useless water cannon = £0.3 million
    Bike Scheme subsidy = £225 million (supposed to make a profit, as does Paris)
    Island Airport study = £5 million
    Olympic Stadium conversion = £305 million
    Stratford Helter-skelter = £6 million

    Just the rounding error on an NHS IT project.....
    Of those, I've got no real problem with 'studies' into possible new infrastructure, although it's always interesting that they seem to cost many millions.

    If you don't do such studies, you're more likely to build the wrong thing, or not build what you need.

    I'm amazed the bike scheme cost so much, though.
    The one Socialist Ken initiated?
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Just discovered that the Republican House of 2016/2017 made it out of bounds to call Trump racist in the Senate and Congress

    https://twitter.com/CraigCaplan/status/1151221245628821504?s=19
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    Tabman said:

    Tabman said:



    Interesting, thanks.

    Does she have any independent views or is she a creature of the 4Ms?

    It's really hard to tell, because most of them avoid criticising JC. Based on recent comments you might conclude Starmer was hard left, which he definitely isn't. She's gone off-message in a minor way over Europe and tends to be noticeably absent when the loyalists are defending JC over the latest antisemitism scandal. I'd say she's someone whose hard left views are independent of any particular factional loyalty. She's also relatively new in parliament, which means she isn't one of the gang who've all known each other for decades.

    However I'm not well plugged into Momentum so could be missing something.
    Thanks that's really helpful.

    I must confess the one Labour MP I really don't get is Keir Starmer. He looks and sounds like a Blairite and is clearly at odds with the Trots. Why does he stay?
    More of a Milibandista than a Blairite, I'd say. To the Corbynites they're all the same thing, but to the rest of the party it's a big distinction.

    I'm pretty sure he stays because he thinks he can drag the party into a sensible Brexit position and possibly save the country from economic hardship in the process. So far he's doing pretty well, given that Labour started out with most MPs wanting to triangulate an electorally popular position rather than oppose hard Brexit on principle.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Apparently Rebecca Long-Bailey has acquired the nickname of Rebecca Wrong Daily which rhymes.

    As to my views I was simply reporting the fact that she is the betting favourite.

    What do people who bet on politics know?

    After all, they kept telling us to lay favourite Boris.....
    If they've been telling you to lay all the favourites since May was elected you will be well in profit, even if the final favourite wins. It's a bit like betting on Love Island.

    Which brings us to the most important question of the Tory leadership election, who will win Love Island?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io1NxnU08CU
    Has Boris been laying all the favourites?
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    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    Scott_P said:
    Except for the link to the other twitter feed BrexitParody_UK

    It's scarily plausible though...
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    WHERE IS @TheJezziah??

    How else without his comments are we to know how we and the 60 Labour peers have got it wrong?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TOPPING said:

    WHERE IS @TheJezziah??

    How else without his comments are we to know how we and the 60 Labour peers have got it wrong?

    https://twitter.com/Maomentum_/status/1151388447946477569
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Leaving partisan opinions aside - when I first became aware of her she was dreadfully bad at speaking. She's improved a lot subsequently. I think she may be one to watch. Not sure how she ends up as favourite in the betting right now though.
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,647
    IanB2 said:

    Boris’s cost to London:

    Garden Bridge (that never happened) = £52 million
    New Routemaster bus = £321 million
    Cable Car to nowhere = £24 million
    Useless water cannon = £0.3 million
    Bike Scheme subsidy = £225 million (supposed to make a profit, as does Paris)
    Island Airport study = £5 million
    Olympic Stadium conversion = £305 million
    Stratford Helter-skelter = £6 million

    Whilst I am not keen on defending the incompetent, not sure those numbers are fair or right?

    Routemaster cost - looks like the cost of 1000 routemaster buses, we still have those so the fairer number would be the difference between 1000 routemasters or 1000 other buses which might be closer to £100m, and routemaster presumably has environmental benefits over those.

    Bike Subsidy - that includes infrastructure cost of an expanding scheme (so ongoing benefits to come), the subsidy is similar to other tfl modes of transport as a proportion of cost per journey and obviously environmentally friendly.

    Cable Car = £6m of the £24m came from EU! Not sure if that is a cost to London or not....also makes a small annual profit (few hundred thousand) so the remaining cost gradually coming down.

    The garden bridge and stadium are the big mistakes presumably for opposite reasons, Boris being interested in the garden bridge so wasting money on it, and Boris having no interest in the minutiae of negotiating contracts for the Olympic stadium once the Olympics themselves were over.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    John Humphry's either doesn't know the meaning of 'base' or he doresn't listen to his guest's reply.

    American guest ' He said it to fire up his base'

    Humphry's 'But couldn't he have just been saying it because his own supporters would approve of what he was saying?'

    Since they took half his dosh off him he's definitely got worse
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,225

    IanB2 said:

    Boris’s cost to London:

    Garden Bridge (that never happened) = £52 million
    New Routemaster bus = £321 million
    Cable Car to nowhere = £24 million
    Useless water cannon = £0.3 million
    Bike Scheme subsidy = £225 million (supposed to make a profit, as does Paris)
    Island Airport study = £5 million
    Olympic Stadium conversion = £305 million
    Stratford Helter-skelter = £6 million

    Whilst I am not keen on defending the incompetent, not sure those numbers are fair or right?

    Routemaster cost - looks like the cost of 1000 routemaster buses, we still have those so the fairer number would be the difference between 1000 routemasters or 1000 other buses which might be closer to £100m, and routemaster presumably has environmental benefits over those.

    Bike Subsidy - that includes infrastructure cost of an expanding scheme (so ongoing benefits to come), the subsidy is similar to other tfl modes of transport as a proportion of cost per journey and obviously environmentally friendly.

    Cable Car = £6m of the £24m came from EU! Not sure if that is a cost to London or not....also makes a small annual profit (few hundred thousand) so the remaining cost gradually coming down.

    The garden bridge and stadium are the big mistakes presumably for opposite reasons, Boris being interested in the garden bridge so wasting money on it, and Boris having no interest in the minutiae of negotiating contracts for the Olympic stadium once the Olympics themselves were over.
    The source is a 2017 Guardian article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/18/bridge-940m-bill-boris-johnsons-mayora-vanity-projects-garden-bridge-routemaster-bus

    You are probably right that a couple of the figures are gross when they should be net, but it doesn't really alter a sorry picture.

    There is a more subjective account of Boris's early days in office here:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/16/total-chaos-boris-johnson-london-mayor
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    Roger said:

    Apparently Rebecca Long-Bailey has acquired the nickname of Rebecca Wrong Daily which rhymes.

    As to my views I was simply reporting the fact that she is the betting favourite.

    What do people who bet on politics know?

    After all, they kept telling us to lay favourite Boris.....
    If they've been telling you to lay all the favourites since May was elected you will be well in profit, even if the final favourite wins. It's a bit like betting on Love Island.

    Which brings us to the most important question of the Tory leadership election, who will win Love Island?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io1NxnU08CU
    Has Boris been laying all the favourites?
    He's famous for his loose screwing as well as having a screw loose.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378
    Alistair said:

    Just discovered that the Republican House of 2016/2017 made it out of bounds to call Trump racist in the Senate and Congress

    https://twitter.com/CraigCaplan/status/1151221245628821504?s=19

    The reference is actually to this:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/07/pelosi-squad-and-fight-over-trump-house-floor/594169/
    Among the authorities that govern House procedure in this regard is Thomas Jefferson’s Manual of Parliamentary Practice, published in 1801 and used by the House since the 1830s. It forbids language “which is personally offensive to the president”

    Of course such a rule is rendered otiose by a president who regards anything other than slavish devotion as personally offensive.

    One might also remark that a slaveowner who raped his female property is perhaps not the ideal authority to reference in this matter.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,581

    Apparently Rebecca Long-Bailey has acquired the nickname of Rebecca Wrong Daily which rhymes.

    As to my views I was simply reporting the fact that she is the betting favourite.

    Alas my repeated attempts to get her known as Rebecca Short-Trousers have fallen on stony ground.

    Night all.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Boris’s cost to London:

    Garden Bridge (that never happened) = £52 million
    New Routemaster bus = £321 million
    Cable Car to nowhere = £24 million
    Useless water cannon = £0.3 million
    Bike Scheme subsidy = £225 million (supposed to make a profit, as does Paris)
    Island Airport study = £5 million
    Olympic Stadium conversion = £305 million
    Stratford Helter-skelter = £6 million

    Whilst I am not keen on defending the incompetent, not sure those numbers are fair or right?

    Routemaster cost - looks like the cost of 1000 routemaster buses, we still have those so the fairer number would be the difference between 1000 routemasters or 1000 other buses which might be closer to £100m, and routemaster presumably has environmental benefits over those.

    Bike Subsidy - that includes infrastructure cost of an expanding scheme (so ongoing benefits to come), the subsidy is similar to other tfl modes of transport as a proportion of cost per journey and obviously environmentally friendly.

    Cable Car = £6m of the £24m came from EU! Not sure if that is a cost to London or not....also makes a small annual profit (few hundred thousand) so the remaining cost gradually coming down.

    The garden bridge and stadium are the big mistakes presumably for opposite reasons, Boris being interested in the garden bridge so wasting money on it, and Boris having no interest in the minutiae of negotiating contracts for the Olympic stadium once the Olympics themselves were over.
    The source is a 2017 Guardian article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/18/bridge-940m-bill-boris-johnsons-mayora-vanity-projects-garden-bridge-routemaster-bus

    You are probably right that a couple of the figures are gross when they should be net, but it doesn't really alter a sorry picture.

    There is a more subjective account of Boris's early days in office here:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/16/total-chaos-boris-johnson-london-mayor
    The precise figure is hardly important, given the far greater magnitude of the spaffing opportunities granted to a PM.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_P said:
    I'm surprised. Nigel Farage's song repertoire was previously drawn from the other side in the Second World War.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378

    Apparently Rebecca Long-Bailey has acquired the nickname of Rebecca Wrong Daily which rhymes.

    As to my views I was simply reporting the fact that she is the betting favourite.

    Alas my repeated attempts to get her known as Rebecca Short-Trousers have fallen on stony ground.

    Night all.
    I know thing are bad, but it’s actually still morning.

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    Apparently Rebecca Long-Bailey has acquired the nickname of Rebecca Wrong Daily which rhymes.

    As to my views I was simply reporting the fact that she is the betting favourite.

    Alas my repeated attempts to get her known as Rebecca Short-Trousers have fallen on stony ground.

    Night all.
    I think my Rebecca Long-Drop may prove more apposite....
  • Options
    GazGaz Posts: 45

    I have been saying for a while that Laura Pidcock is the one to follow as next Labour leader. I am not sure of the current odds, but they are probably way too long.

    That said, Corbyn is not going anywhere for a very long time. I'd expect him to stay on even when Labour loses the next election.

    She would go well in that narrow “all Tories are vermin, and lack any decency” strand of Corbynism and hard leftism. But will that work in the wider world ? How do you begin to win over floating voters with that mindset. My wife is a labour elected representative, I’m a Tory. When Pidcock makes those kind of statements it isolates people to who politics isn’t their burning passion.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    IanB2 said:

    Boris’s cost to London:

    Garden Bridge (that never happened) = £52 million
    New Routemaster bus = £321 million
    Cable Car to nowhere = £24 million
    Useless water cannon = £0.3 million
    Bike Scheme subsidy = £225 million (supposed to make a profit, as does Paris)
    Island Airport study = £5 million
    Olympic Stadium conversion = £305 million
    Stratford Helter-skelter = £6 million

    Whilst I am not keen on defending the incompetent, not sure those numbers are fair or right?

    Routemaster cost - looks like the cost of 1000 routemaster buses, we still have those so the fairer number would be the difference between 1000 routemasters or 1000 other buses which might be closer to £100m, and routemaster presumably has environmental benefits over those.

    Bike Subsidy - that includes infrastructure cost of an expanding scheme (so ongoing benefits to come), the subsidy is similar to other tfl modes of transport as a proportion of cost per journey and obviously environmentally friendly.

    Cable Car = £6m of the £24m came from EU! Not sure if that is a cost to London or not....also makes a small annual profit (few hundred thousand) so the remaining cost gradually coming down.

    The garden bridge and stadium are the big mistakes presumably for opposite reasons, Boris being interested in the garden bridge so wasting money on it, and Boris having no interest in the minutiae of negotiating contracts for the Olympic stadium once the Olympics themselves were over.
    A stadium that should have been W-A-Y better designed for use after the Olympics was hardly Boris's problem.... Just a mess he inherited. It may give a pointer, however, to how he handles inherited messes....
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    eek said:

    Scott_P said:
    Except for the link to the other twitter feed BrexitParody_UK

    It's scarily plausible though...
    Yes, it is a parody. It is vaguely concerning that the journalist who posted it was so easily taken in, despite the bizarre content, the link you noted and the lack of a blue tick. Cross-checking the name with a list of MEPs might have helped too.
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    TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_P said:
    I've seen Boris on a few different bikes - all garbage. He had a Marin hybrid for a while before the Halfords special he trundles around on now.
    I'm very proud of my Pashley. It's heavy and slow which stops me from trying to race everyone.
    Though taking out roadies while accelerating away from the lights on a Boris Bike, or Brompton, is one of the great pleasures of cycling in London.
    " taking out roadies "

    What does that lingo mean?
    Roadies are cyclists on road racing bikes. Generally young and fit. Taking out means accelerating quicker.

    A bit like the pleasure I had against BMW drivers in the SAAB at the traffic lights Grand Prix when I was young and foolish 🙂
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645
    ydoethur said:

    Tabman said:

    To what question is Rebecca Long--Bailey the answer?

    Who would make Labour nostalgic for Jeremy Corbyn?
    Chris Williamson.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    Scott_P said:
    I'm surprised. Nigel Farage's song repertoire was previously drawn from the other side in the Second World War.
    Too bad Jim McCawber doesn't exist.
  • Options
    TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046

    Tabman said:

    Tabman said:



    Interesting, thanks.

    Does she have any independent views or is she a creature of the 4Ms?

    It's really hard to tell, because most of them avoid criticising JC. Based on recent comments you might conclude Starmer was hard left, which he definitely isn't. She's gone off-message in a minor way over Europe and tends to be noticeably absent when the loyalists are defending JC over the latest antisemitism scandal. I'd say she's someone whose hard left views are independent of any particular factional loyalty. She's also relatively new in parliament, which means she isn't one of the gang who've all known each other for decades.

    However I'm not well plugged into Momentum so could be missing something.
    Thanks that's really helpful.

    I must confess the one Labour MP I really don't get is Keir Starmer. He looks and sounds like a Blairite and is clearly at odds with the Trots. Why does he stay?
    More of a Milibandista than a Blairite, I'd say. To the Corbynites they're all the same thing, but to the rest of the party it's a big distinction.

    I'm pretty sure he stays because he thinks he can drag the party into a sensible Brexit position and possibly save the country from economic hardship in the process. So far he's doing pretty well, given that Labour started out with most MPs wanting to triangulate an electorally popular position rather than oppose hard Brexit on principle.
    It just feels like he gets s**t on by the 4Ms at every opportunity. He must have huge reserves of equanimity. Is it coz he's a Sir?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645

    Tabman said:

    Tabman said:



    Interesting, thanks.

    Does she have any independent views or is she a creature of the 4Ms?

    It's really hard to tell, because most of them avoid criticising JC. Based on recent comments you might conclude Starmer was hard left, which he definitely isn't. She's gone off-message in a minor way over Europe and tends to be noticeably absent when the loyalists are defending JC over the latest antisemitism scandal. I'd say she's someone whose hard left views are independent of any particular factional loyalty. She's also relatively new in parliament, which means she isn't one of the gang who've all known each other for decades.

    However I'm not well plugged into Momentum so could be missing something.
    Thanks that's really helpful.

    I must confess the one Labour MP I really don't get is Keir Starmer. He looks and sounds like a Blairite and is clearly at odds with the Trots. Why does he stay?
    More of a Milibandista than a Blairite, I'd say. To the Corbynites they're all the same thing, but to the rest of the party it's a big distinction.

    I'm pretty sure he stays because he thinks he can drag the party into a sensible Brexit position and possibly save the country from economic hardship in the process. So far he's doing pretty well, given that Labour started out with most MPs wanting to triangulate an electorally popular position rather than oppose hard Brexit on principle.
    Indeed. Whether their polling will recover who can day, but he has won the day on Brexit.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,294
    His [Ben Stokes] character was shown on Sunday when Stokes asked the umpires if the four runs that England scored as overthrows after the ball hit his bat while he was completing a run could be taken off the score, although the laws do not allow umpires to exercise discretion.

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d141701c-a7e1-11e9-b520-3fe5f5a3c989

    What a guy, that’s the spirit of cricket right there.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    Just discovered that the Republican House of 2016/2017 made it out of bounds to call Trump racist in the Senate and Congress

    https://twitter.com/CraigCaplan/status/1151221245628821504?s=19

    The reference is actually to this:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/07/pelosi-squad-and-fight-over-trump-house-floor/594169/
    Among the authorities that govern House procedure in this regard is Thomas Jefferson’s Manual of Parliamentary Practice, published in 1801 and used by the House since the 1830s. It forbids language “which is personally offensive to the president”

    Of course such a rule is rendered otiose by a president who regards anything other than slavish devotion as personally offensive.

    One might also remark that a slaveowner who raped his female property is perhaps not the ideal authority to reference in this matter.
    THe problem with trying to use this for the Republicans is that calling Trump a racist is a simple statement of fact. The minor detail that if applied logically to all immigrants the whole Trump family would have to be deported shows he is targeting only non-whites.

    Although I do agree with him he doesn't have a racist bone in his body. Allowing for the large lump of bone in his arse that masquerades as his brain, he has 207 of them.
  • Options
    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Roger said:

    John Humphry's either doesn't know the meaning of 'base' or he doresn't listen to his guest's reply.

    American guest ' He said it to fire up his base'

    Humphry's 'But couldn't he have just been saying it because his own supporters would approve of what he was saying?'

    Since they took half his dosh off him he's definitely got worse

    Which candidate is guaranteeing Jon Humphrys will be out of the Today studio by the 31st of October?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,916
    Tabman said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_P said:
    I've seen Boris on a few different bikes - all garbage. He had a Marin hybrid for a while before the Halfords special he trundles around on now.
    I'm very proud of my Pashley. It's heavy and slow which stops me from trying to race everyone.
    Though taking out roadies while accelerating away from the lights on a Boris Bike, or Brompton, is one of the great pleasures of cycling in London.
    " taking out roadies "

    What does that lingo mean?
    Roadies are cyclists on road racing bikes. Generally young and fit. Taking out means accelerating quicker.

    (Snip)
    Ah, for a horrid moment I thought you might be gunning down innocent people packing up after a gig at the Brixton Academy. ;)
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    Apparently Rebecca Long-Bailey has acquired the nickname of Rebecca Wrong Daily which rhymes.

    As to my views I was simply reporting the fact that she is the betting favourite.

    Alas my repeated attempts to get her known as Rebecca Short-Trousers have fallen on stony ground.

    Night all.
    I think my Rebecca Long-Drop may prove more apposite....
    That remark has been left hanging.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited July 2019
    This ad is further evidence who Boris might want a general election this year ideally after delivering Brexit, when Corbyn is still Labour leader.

    However if Labour keeps Corbyn as leader and then follows him with a Corbynite like Laura Pidcock or Rebecca Long-Bailey or John McDonnell
    or even Chris Williamson then serious questions must now be asked as to whether the LDs, whether with Swinson, Davey or Umunna now have more credible candidates for centre left voters to be PM to take on Boris and Farage than Labour do.

    If so and Boris does deliver Brexit to remove the threat from the Brexit Party could it actually be Labour not the Tories under existential threat with a reversion to the 19th century battles between the Tories and Liberals as the 2 main parties rather than the Tories and Labour who dominated the 20th century and the first two decades of the 21st?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    Just discovered that the Republican House of 2016/2017 made it out of bounds to call Trump racist in the Senate and Congress

    https://twitter.com/CraigCaplan/status/1151221245628821504?s=19

    The reference is actually to this:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/07/pelosi-squad-and-fight-over-trump-house-floor/594169/
    Among the authorities that govern House procedure in this regard is Thomas Jefferson’s Manual of Parliamentary Practice, published in 1801 and used by the House since the 1830s. It forbids language “which is personally offensive to the president”

    Of course such a rule is rendered otiose by a president who regards anything other than slavish devotion as personally offensive.

    One might also remark that a slaveowner who raped his female property is perhaps not the ideal authority to reference in this matter.
    THe problem with trying to use this for the Republicans is that calling Trump a racist is a simple statement of fact. The minor detail that if applied logically to all immigrants the whole Trump family would have to be deported shows he is targeting only non-whites.

    Although I do agree with him he doesn't have a racist bone in his body. Allowing for the large lump of bone in his arse that masquerades as his brain, he has 207 of them.
    I wonder if he truly believes he is not racist. Its hard to see how he could, but he clearly knows enough that being a racist is bad and he cannot possibly be bad, ergo he must not be racist.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,321
    philiph said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Quite the move. I wonder if the far left will react in kind, or simply embark upon a purge of soon-to-be non-persons.

    It is hard to see HOL surviving a Corbyn administration.
    Reaction will, I assume, be a load of Tory Blairites
    It's sufficiently broad-based not to be seen as that. But I think it and even more the letter from the 200 miscellaneous members a few days ago make the mistake of turning the issue into a leadership challenge. The mainstream position of members IMO is (1) There's a problem and the party has been too slow to tackle it, in particular the ridiculously slow disciplinary procedures (2) Attacking people with serious health issues is wrong (whether the staff member who considered suicide or Jennie Formby with cancer) (3) Actually encountering any anti-semitism is extremely rare at local meetings (I never have, in nearly 50 years), and not every complaint is reasonable, so due process is needed (4) The issue is being exaggerated by the media and people whose real agenda is getting a leadership change.

    There is a majority who want a clear break with practice to restore confidence in the disciplinary procedures, and also a majority who don't want a leadership change. Peers or others who want the former are making a mistake in trying to turn it into the latter.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    If we leave aside the 2015 revelation that Corbyn was a friend and supporter of Paul Eisen, this has now been a constant running sore for over a year.

    At what point would a sensible person have got a grip?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    HYUFD said:

    This ad is further evidence who Boris might want a general election this year ideally after delivering Brexit, when Corbyn is still Labour leader.

    However if Labour keeps Corbyn as leader and then follows him with a Corbynite like Laura Pidcock or Rebecca Long-Bailey or John McDonnell then serious questions must now be asked as to whether the LDs, whether with Swinson, Davey or Umunna now have more credible candidates for centre left voters to be PM to take on Boris and Farage than Labour do.

    If so and Boris does deliver Brexit to remove the threat from the Brexit Party could it actually be Labour not the Tories under existential threat with a reversion to the 19th century battles between the Tories and Liberals as the 2 main parties rather than the Tories and Labour who dominated the 20th century and the first two decades of the 21st?

    If the impossible does occur and Boris gets us out of the EU by October 31st Labour is likely to have a problem.

    However for that to occur Boris has to achieve something and it's not clear how he will do it.
  • Options
    TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    Gaz said:

    I have been saying for a while that Laura Pidcock is the one to follow as next Labour leader. I am not sure of the current odds, but they are probably way too long.

    That said, Corbyn is not going anywhere for a very long time. I'd expect him to stay on even when Labour loses the next election.

    She would go well in that narrow “all Tories are vermin, and lack any decency” strand of Corbynism and hard leftism. But will that work in the wider world ? How do you begin to win over floating voters with that mindset. My wife is a labour elected representative, I’m a Tory. When Pidcock makes those kind of statements it isolates people to who politics isn’t their burning passion.
    Doesn't her surname preclude her?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    Just discovered that the Republican House of 2016/2017 made it out of bounds to call Trump racist in the Senate and Congress

    https://twitter.com/CraigCaplan/status/1151221245628821504?s=19

    The reference is actually to this:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/07/pelosi-squad-and-fight-over-trump-house-floor/594169/
    Among the authorities that govern House procedure in this regard is Thomas Jefferson’s Manual of Parliamentary Practice, published in 1801 and used by the House since the 1830s. It forbids language “which is personally offensive to the president”

    Of course such a rule is rendered otiose by a president who regards anything other than slavish devotion as personally offensive.

    One might also remark that a slaveowner who raped his female property is perhaps not the ideal authority to reference in this matter.
    THe problem with trying to use this for the Republicans is that calling Trump a racist is a simple statement of fact. The minor detail that if applied logically to all immigrants the whole Trump family would have to be deported shows he is targeting only non-whites.

    Although I do agree with him he doesn't have a racist bone in his body. Allowing for the large lump of bone in his arse that masquerades as his brain, he has 207 of them.
    I wonder if he truly believes he is not racist. Its hard to see how he could, but he clearly knows enough that being a racist is bad and he cannot possibly be bad, ergo he must not be racist.
    He probably does. David Irving, for example, couldn't understand why saying his books were rejected by mainstream publishing houses because the Jews objected to them was racist.

    And there are several people in another organisation which shall be nameless who believe they are not racist when they clearly are (THAT mural was all the evidence needed).

    But even if Trump were shrewd and sensible (he isn't) he doesn't get to say what is and isn't racism.

    And I say again, since his tweets obviously only applied to selected first and second generation immigrants, those with non-white skins, he was clearly being racist.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    Tabman said:

    Gaz said:

    I have been saying for a while that Laura Pidcock is the one to follow as next Labour leader. I am not sure of the current odds, but they are probably way too long.

    That said, Corbyn is not going anywhere for a very long time. I'd expect him to stay on even when Labour loses the next election.

    She would go well in that narrow “all Tories are vermin, and lack any decency” strand of Corbynism and hard leftism. But will that work in the wider world ? How do you begin to win over floating voters with that mindset. My wife is a labour elected representative, I’m a Tory. When Pidcock makes those kind of statements it isolates people to who politics isn’t their burning passion.
    Doesn't her surname preclude her?
    She would at least continue the tradition that all Labour leaders have cocks.
  • Options
    TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    HYUFD said:

    This ad is further evidence who Boris might want a general election this year ideally after delivering Brexit, when Corbyn is still Labour leader.

    However if Labour keeps Corbyn as leader and then follows him with a Corbynite like Laura Pidcock or Rebecca Long-Bailey or John McDonnell
    or even Chris Williamson then serious questions must now be asked as to whether the LDs, whether with Swinson, Davey or Umunna now have more credible candidates for centre left voters to be PM to take on Boris and Farage than Labour do.

    If so and Boris does deliver Brexit to remove the threat from the Brexit Party could it actually be Labour not the Tories under existential threat with a reversion to the 19th century battles between the Tories and Liberals as the 2 main parties rather than the Tories and Labour who dominated the 20th century and the first two decades of the 21st?

    Hopefully - in their protectionist and free trade guises.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249

    philiph said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Quite the move. I wonder if the far left will react in kind, or simply embark upon a purge of soon-to-be non-persons.

    It is hard to see HOL surviving a Corbyn administration.
    Reaction will, I assume, be a load of Tory Blairites
    It's sufficiently broad-based not to be seen as that. But I think it and even more the letter from the 200 miscellaneous members a few days ago make the mistake of turning the issue into a leadership challenge. The mainstream position of members IMO is (1) There's a problem and the party has been too slow to tackle it, in particular the ridiculously slow disciplinary procedures (2) Attacking people with serious health issues is wrong (whether the staff member who considered suicide or Jennie Formby with cancer) (3) Actually encountering any anti-semitism is extremely rare at local meetings (I never have, in nearly 50 years), and not every complaint is reasonable, so due process is needed (4) The issue is being exaggerated by the media and people whose real agenda is getting a leadership change.

    There is a majority who want a clear break with practice to restore confidence in the disciplinary procedures, and also a majority who don't want a leadership change. Peers or others who want the former are making a mistake in trying to turn it into the latter.
    Do you think Labour has an anti-semitism problem Nick? I couldn't really tell from your post.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,225
    HYUFD said:

    This ad is further evidence who Boris might want a general election this year ideally after delivering Brexit, when Corbyn is still Labour leader.

    However if Labour keeps Corbyn as leader and then follows him with a Corbynite like Laura Pidcock or Rebecca Long-Bailey or John McDonnell
    or even Chris Williamson then serious questions must now be asked as to whether the LDs, whether with Swinson, Davey or Umunna now have more credible candidates for centre left voters to be PM to take on Boris and Farage than Labour do.

    If so and Boris does deliver Brexit to remove the threat from the Brexit Party could it actually be Labour not the Tories under existential threat with a reversion to the 19th century battles between the Tories and Liberals as the 2 main parties rather than the Tories and Labour who dominated the 20th century and the first two decades of the 21st?

    With your help directing unwanted sensible Tories toward the LibDems...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited July 2019
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    This ad is further evidence who Boris might want a general election this year ideally after delivering Brexit, when Corbyn is still Labour leader.

    However if Labour keeps Corbyn as leader and then follows him with a Corbynite like Laura Pidcock or Rebecca Long-Bailey or John McDonnell then serious questions must now be asked as to whether the LDs, whether with Swinson, Davey or Umunna now have more credible candidates for centre left voters to be PM to take on Boris and Farage than Labour do.

    If so and Boris does deliver Brexit to remove the threat from the Brexit Party could it actually be Labour not the Tories under existential threat with a reversion to the 19th century battles between the Tories and Liberals as the 2 main parties rather than the Tories and Labour who dominated the 20th century and the first two decades of the 21st?

    If the impossible does occur and Boris gets us out of the EU by October 31st Labour is likely to have a problem.

    However for that to occur Boris has to achieve something and it's not clear how he will do it.
    As long as Boris does not extend again (even if that requires a Queen's Speech in November to prorogue Parliament past October 31st as he plans as a last resort, then the Brexit Party will not replace the Tories as the main party of the right).

    However Brexit or No Brexit the LDs could soon replace Corbyn Labour as the main party of the centre left just leaving Labour with hard-core socialists and some inner city ethnic minorities
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited July 2019
    Good result for the LDs in Cardiff overnight

    LD Rob Hopkins 1920 [55.3%; +18.9%]
    Con 838 [24.1%; -11.9%]
    Lab 560 [16.1%; -3.3%]
    PC 152 [4.4% +4.4%]


    Lib Dem Hold.
    Percentage changes from 2017.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,161
    Strikes me that abolishing the House of Lords will just have rushed up the Labour manifesto writing team's agenda.

    I have always thought that Jezza would need to get rid asap in order to enact some of his stuff. Either that or pack the place out with 100s of momentum activists. But after that advert his kitchen cabinet of aides will want vengeance.
  • Options
    TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    edited July 2019
    ydoethur said:

    Tabman said:

    Gaz said:

    I have been saying for a while that Laura Pidcock is the one to follow as next Labour leader. I am not sure of the current odds, but they are probably way too long.

    That said, Corbyn is not going anywhere for a very long time. I'd expect him to stay on even when Labour loses the next election.

    She would go well in that narrow “all Tories are vermin, and lack any decency” strand of Corbynism and hard leftism. But will that work in the wider world ? How do you begin to win over floating voters with that mindset. My wife is a labour elected representative, I’m a Tory. When Pidcock makes those kind of statements it isolates people to who politics isn’t their burning passion.
    Doesn't her surname preclude her?
    She would at least continue the tradition that all Labour leaders have cocks.
    Chapeau 🙂
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    Attended a gathering last night with Jeremy Hunt.

    I mean take out Brexit and he spoke a lot of good sense about a lot of domestic policies.

    Not going to top up on him because I am in for a decent three figure win if he defies the odds (literally) but am happy I backed the right candidate.

    Oh and as for Brexit, sadly he has tacked towards the membership as he continues to harden the rhetoric but, as with Lab/Con, all one has to do is look at the alternative.
This discussion has been closed.