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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,311
    Ishmael_Z said:

    dixiedean said:

    Just catching up with Boris' latest Telegraph column. Wherein his knowledge of Churchill enables him to discern the cure for mental ill health.
    Astounding that whole armies of scientists, researchers and qualified people, not to mention sufferers, have been wasting their time.
    Why didn't they simply ask Boris what Churchill did?

    Well, in a field where none of the hundreds of drug treatments reliably outperforms placebo, constructive suggestions of alternative approaches are to be welcomed. Actually Churchill's best dictum on the point was that "there is nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse," but I can see that that doesn't suit Boris's agenda.
    Or indeed Boris' outside body.

    https://metro.co.uk/2013/05/07/a-mare-for-the-mayor-as-boris-johnson-gets-on-his-high-horse-at-the-olympic-park-3715080/
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    viewcode said:

    notme2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris's top-secret masterplan looks suspiciously like what I've been advocating on pb: massively extend the transition period; punt the backstop to appease ERG; remove the hard border for Ireland; lose the Irish Sea border for the DUP; lose TM's red lines to persuade the EU. Either I've just doxed myself as an old Etonian icing sugar addict or fools seldom differ.
    But do we know if this would satisfy the ERG? They strike me as being unhinged enough to defeat MV4.
    I keep banging on about Cameron's, and then May's, failure to set up a commission to nail down what Brexit should mean, but the corollary of this is there is no agreed ERG position either: just dozens of different unicorns. A massively extended transition period to ensure the backstop is never implemented (and probably an agreed exit mechanism just in case) should satisfy most of them if it means we will leave on halloween.

    Two or three ERG members care about vassalage but I doubt the rest know what it means (and I'd need to look it up), and the odd one that does care seems not to have noticed an FTA with the USA (or with Europe) would mean reentering the same state they've been railing against for years.
    Yes, any modern comprehensive trade agreement will involve anti-state aid provisions, opening of public works to competition and third party binding arbitration.
    I think you need to explain that to @Philip_Thompson . He still thinks free trade agreements can be achieved without rule taking... :(
    That isn't rule taking. Agreeing to rules and sticking to what you've agreed is not rule taking. I have no issues with any of those rules being agreed to.

    What is wrong is agreeing to rules then the rules changing without our agreement. The EU Parliament, the US Congress etc can change their rules. That is the difference.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Just been digging through the ComRes tables. Fascinating to see how few Brexit Party supporters are former Conservative voters:

    Percentage of Brexit Party VI by vote behaviour last election:
    Conservatives 57%
    Labour 20%
    Some other party 11% (presumably mainly UKIP)
    Did not vote 7%
    Lib Dems 3%
    SNP 0.6%
    Plaid Cymru 0.3%

    This should be remembered every time posters (eg HYUFD) lazily add Bxp + Con figures to come up with fantasy numbers for the Drive-over-the-cliff Party.

    Table 30, page 34

    https://www.comresglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Final-Tables-Sunday-Express-VI.pdf

    Interesting - what really surprises me is the low non-voter % for BXP. That suggests real mainstream inroads, rather than the sort of "for two pins I'd vote for a change" type who sometimes gave UKIP high ratings. Basically, as your figures show, they are mostly taking a chunk of regular Tory voters. Whether that remains true is likely to decide the election if it's any time soon.
    One of the false assumptions of 2017, common on PB, was that the Kippers would all go Tory. The same may well be true of the BXP.
    Also worth noting that current Conservative supporters are only 65:35 to Leave, and that's going by their 2016 vote rather than current opinion. There are a lot of Tory remainers there to lose.
    Wow. That is an amazing statistic. Are 35% of current Conservative supporters still in favour of Remaining members of the EU? That is huge, and actually hard to believe in the current bonkers climate.

    If true (what do the other pollsters say?), it would mean that even if Boris succeeds in his key goal of winning back Brexit Party supporters, he will simultaneously piss off enough current Conservative supporters to negate any gains.

    I’d hate to be a smart Tory analyst trying to explain this to The Clown. I just don’t think he is the type of personality to appreciate being shown that there are errors in his homework.
    Given 57% of Brexit Party voters voted Tory in 2017 but only 35% of the Tory vote is still made up of Remainers it is clear where the gains are, if Remainers are still voting Tory they clearly would not touch Corbyn if their life depended on it anyway, at most they would go LD
    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

    Those current Remain Con voters are easier to keep than trying to win back Brexit Party bampots. Once a voter has crossed the rubicon they are bloody difficult to win back. Ask SLab. Indeed, you yourself are evidence of the zeal of the convert.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IanB2 said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Jessop, a cruel comparison!

    (Snip).

    Yeah, I should apologise to Boris. ;)

    There are actually a fair few similarities between Boris and SeanT; although it's perhaps best left to the reader to work them out ... ;)
    I don’t see Bozo coming back as a poet, somehow.
    Poetic justice will be his fate.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,986
    Mr. Chris, sorry, I don't, it was from a while ago.

    I do remember the question wasn't a preference between zero hours or full time work, it was more akin to an approve/disapprove from people in zero hours.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    At an emotional level, Grieve has long since ceased to be a Conservative.
    Or possibly he feels at an emotional level that the Current Tory party has long since ceased to be Conservative.
    And Grieve is far from alone. Millions of conservatives are wondering where the hell their sensible, competent, boring old party has gone.
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    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    Never mind the £350m. Here's a fun one - what happened to the £9bn the Bank of England spent on quantitative easing? Turns out no-one knows...

    https://twitter.com/darkgreener/status/1151123619327725570
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    Never mind the £350m. Here's a fun one - what happened to the £9bn the Bank of England spent on quantitative easing? Turns out no-one knows...

    https://twitter.com/darkgreener/status/1151123619327725570

    A tad misleading. The Bank knows, they just aren’t making it public.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    At an emotional level, Grieve has long since ceased to be a Conservative.
    Or possibly he feels at an emotional level that the Current Tory party has long since ceased to be Conservative.
    And Grieve is far from alone. Millions of conservatives are wondering where the hell their sensible, competent, boring old party has gone.
    The 1950s maybe?

    When was the last time the Tories were sensible, competent and boring in office?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Chris said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Jessop, a cruel comparison!

    Mr. G, polling showed a majority of those on zero hours contracts are content with them. The idea zero hours = evil is nonsense (as is the idea there's no room to sharpen up regulation here and there).

    Do you have a link for that, please?

    Google takes me to a poll showing only 25% prefer them and 2/3 would rather have guaranteed hours:
    https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/two-thirds-zero-hours-workers-want-jobs-guaranteed-hours-tuc-polling-reveals
    Here you go: https://fullfact.org/economy/how-many-people-zero-hours-contracts-want-more-hours/
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,284

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Just been digging through the ComRes tables. Fascinating to see how few Brexit Party supporters are former Conservative voters:


    This should be remembered every time posters (eg HYUFD) lazily

    pdf

    Interesting - what really surprises me is the low non-voter % for BXP. That suggests real mainstream inroads, rather than the sort of "for two pins I'd vote for a change" type who sometimes gave UKIP high ratings. Basically, as your figures show, they are mostly taking a chunk of regular Tory voters. Whether that remains true is likely to decide the election if it's any time soon.
    One of the false assumptions of 2017, common on PB, was that the Kippers would all go Tory. The same may well be true of the BXP.
    Also worth noting that current Conservative supporters are only 65:35 to Leave, and that's going by their 2016 vote rather than current opinion. There are a lot of Tory remainers there to lose.
    Wow. That is an amazing statistic. Are 35% of current Conservative supporters still in favour of Remaining members of the EU? That is huge, and actually hard to believe in the current bonkers climate.

    If true (what do the other pollsters say?), it would mean that even if Boris succeeds in his key goal of winning back Brexit Party supporters, he will simultaneously piss off enough current Conservative supporters to negate any gains.

    I’d hate to be a smart Tory analyst trying to explain this to The Clown. I just don’t think he is the type of personality to appreciate being shown that there are errors in his homework.
    Given 57% of Brexit Party voters voted Tory in 2017 but only 35% of the Tory vote is still made up of Remainers it is clear where the gains are, if Remainers are still voting Tory they clearly would not touch Corbyn if their life depended on it anyway, at most they would go LD
    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

    Those current Remain Con voters are easier to keep than trying to win back Brexit Party bampots. Once a voter has crossed the rubicon they are bloody difficult to win back. Ask SLab. Indeed, you yourself are evidence of the zeal of the convert.
    I am coming to the conclusion that HY doesn’t really believe all this no deal nonsense himself, but needs to say it in order to stay “in” with his local Tories, without which his ambitions of scaling the heights of Epping Parish Council would turn to dust.

    In addition to the clue of his excessive zeal, it is noticeable that what is often advanced by way of assertion generally goes unsupported by evidence or argumentation.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Who was the last Tory PM who was sensible, competent and boring?

    Not May clearly.
    Cameron held the referendum and sparked all this. Surely not boring and many say not sensible.
    Not Major. Probably the closest but nobody who gets the 1997 election result is truly competent ... and the party was so divided then it wasn't sensible either.
    Clearly not Thatcher. She was never boring.

    That is all for my lifetime. So when exactly is that referring to?
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    At an emotional level, Grieve has long since ceased to be a Conservative.
    Or possibly he feels at an emotional level that the Current Tory party has long since ceased to be Conservative.
    And Grieve is far from alone. Millions of conservatives are wondering where the hell their sensible, competent, boring old party has gone.
    The 1950s maybe?

    When was the last time the Tories were sensible, competent and boring in office?
    Suez......
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,913

    I have been doing a lot of thinking about Labour's Anti-Semitism problem after yesterday's "Gentiles Labour Forum" shenanigans so close to home. Its a multi-faceted problem:

    1. Palestine is a totemic issue for a lot of left activists, and that places it over and above every other problem area in the country

    2. They see this as an entirely Israeli problem. Whilst Egypt imprisons Gaza jointly with Israel, only the latter gets called to task.

    3. The blessed Jeremy has been a long-standing advocate for Palestine. As you need to work towards the leader to be anyone these days, that has seen a lot of people enthusiastically joining in the cause without understanding it. That what you read on Facebook is the authoritative fountain of all knowledge for many people just adds to the problem.

    4
    5. AS has become the proxy war between those supporting and opposed to the Corbyn. Anyone saying we have a problem is LYING as Jeremy has always been a man of peace* - they must be lying for a reason whuch makes tthey right wing Blairites. The latest AS smear is that those lying are Israeli shills. Which is Demonstrable Fact because look at this infographic on Facebook proving it.

    AS is to the Labour Party as Racism is to Brexit. Whilst its absolutely true that not all supporters of the blessed Corbyn are Anti-Semites, it absolutely IS true that all anti-semites are supporters of his.

    Remove Corbyn, kill the AS problem. Both sides know this, hence the Labour Party making such a tit of itself over the Panorama documentary.

    I think the main problems with anti-semitism lies with the clique that surrounds Corbyn. Corbyn has had a siege mentality as Leader from day one and has surrounded himself with the assorted Trots, anti-semites, SWP mob that flooded into the party after his election.

    He will never taken any action against any of them because they are the only allies he has got.

    They hold the reigns of power and Corbyn is their puppet. We saw it over and over with the issue of Brexit, Corbyn would say something vaguely positive about remaining or a 2nd referendum only to backtrack hours later once Milne had got to him.

    Corbyn is quite dim, the problem does not end with his departure. I think it has now become very difficult indeed to destroy the hard left's grip on the party. Corbyn was their chance in a lifetime and once inside the gates they have concentrated on controlling all the internal levers of power.

    I think Labour is now beyond hope and have left the party for the Lib Dems. You think it's worth staying to fight, fair enough and good luck.
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    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    RobD said:

    Never mind the £350m. Here's a fun one - what happened to the £9bn the Bank of England spent on quantitative easing? Turns out no-one knows...

    https://twitter.com/darkgreener/status/1151123619327725570

    A tad misleading. The Bank knows, they just aren’t making it public.
    That amount is but a piffle compared to the European central banks amount of which we will never know where that has gone either..
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,134

    Mr. Chris, sorry, I don't, it was from a while ago.

    I do remember the question wasn't a preference between zero hours or full time work, it was more akin to an approve/disapprove from people in zero hours.

    Perhaps this, from six years ago?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25098984

    Though in that survey people weren't asked to approve or disapprove of zero hours contracts, only whether they were happy with their "work-life balance."
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    Who was the last Tory PM who was sensible, competent and boring?

    Not May clearly.
    Cameron held the referendum and sparked all this. Surely not boring and many say not sensible.
    Not Major. Probably the closest but nobody who gets the 1997 election result is truly competent ... and the party was so divided then it wasn't sensible either.
    Clearly not Thatcher. She was never boring.

    That is all for my lifetime. So when exactly is that referring to?

    Sure, there used to be people who'd say "I have no politics, but I vote Conservative for the good of the country," but that was pre-Thatcher.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,983
    edited July 2019

    Chris said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Jessop, a cruel comparison!

    Mr. G, polling showed a majority of those on zero hours contracts are content with them. The idea zero hours = evil is nonsense (as is the idea there's no room to sharpen up regulation here and there).

    Do you have a link for that, please?

    Google takes me to a poll showing only 25% prefer them and 2/3 would rather have guaranteed hours:
    https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/two-thirds-zero-hours-workers-want-jobs-guaranteed-hours-tuc-polling-reveals
    Here you go: https://fullfact.org/economy/how-many-people-zero-hours-contracts-want-more-hours/
    That's not the same question -

    How many people on zero hours contracts want more hours? is not the same as
    How many people on zero hours contracts want guaranteed hours?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,986
    Mr. Chris, I think it was a couple of years ago. I have vague memories of Corbyn slamming zero hours contracts a short time after polling showed a majority on them approved/liked them.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,134

    Chris said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Jessop, a cruel comparison!

    Mr. G, polling showed a majority of those on zero hours contracts are content with them. The idea zero hours = evil is nonsense (as is the idea there's no room to sharpen up regulation here and there).

    Do you have a link for that, please?

    Google takes me to a poll showing only 25% prefer them and 2/3 would rather have guaranteed hours:
    https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/two-thirds-zero-hours-workers-want-jobs-guaranteed-hours-tuc-polling-reveals
    Here you go: https://fullfact.org/economy/how-many-people-zero-hours-contracts-want-more-hours/
    No - that's about whether they wanted to work more hours, not whether they were content with a zero-hours contract or would prefer to be on a standard contract.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,134

    Mr. Chris, I think it was a couple of years ago. I have vague memories of Corbyn slamming zero hours contracts a short time after polling showed a majority on them approved/liked them.

    Well, if you can find it, please let us know.
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    TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    Chris said:

    Mr. Chris, I think it was a couple of years ago. I have vague memories of Corbyn slamming zero hours contracts a short time after polling showed a majority on them approved/liked them.

    Well, if you can find it, please let us know.
    Older, but..

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2013/11/26/zero-hour-contracts-unfairly-demonised-and-oversim
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,986
    Mr. Chris, to be frank, I'm not going to be looking, I just remember it.

    The point being that the idea zero hours = evil capitalism is not the case. There's certainly room to sharpen up regulation, but they aren't inherently wicked.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,721

    Never mind the £350m. Here's a fun one - what happened to the £9bn the Bank of England spent on quantitative easing? Turns out no-one knows...

    https://twitter.com/darkgreener/status/1151123619327725570

    Is it simplistic to say that it just lowered the value of the pound against other currencies?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,251
    edited July 2019
    Bloody hell. I had not realised Champion had said "it's poker"

    This Brexit virus is making people utterly deranged. This is 10,000s of jobs at stake.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,983

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    Very good jobs and wages figures just out. Real-term pay (adjusted for inflation) up 1.4% compared with a year ago,. Unemployment at 3.8% is best figure since 1974.

    Those are stonkingly good figures when you consider that both the UK economy and the world economies are not doing particularly well. It shows that the structural changes and sound economic management of the last 9 years have really brought benefits. A pity that it's probably all going to be thrown away.

    But over 1.5 million are now part-time self employed. How much of that is voluntary? Very different to the mid-1970s.
    Also how many million on zero hours contracts
    The statistics say very few.
    There were estimated to be around 780,000 people employed on zero hours contracts as their main job between April and June 2018. That's roughly 2.4% of people in employment, or about one in 40 workers.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,134

    Chris said:

    Mr. Chris, I think it was a couple of years ago. I have vague memories of Corbyn slamming zero hours contracts a short time after polling showed a majority on them approved/liked them.

    Well, if you can find it, please let us know.
    Older, but..

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2013/11/26/zero-hour-contracts-unfairly-demonised-and-oversim
    That's the poll I linked to earlier!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    Very good jobs and wages figures just out. Real-term pay (adjusted for inflation) up 1.4% compared with a year ago,. Unemployment at 3.8% is best figure since 1974.

    Those are stonkingly good figures when you consider that both the UK economy and the world economies are not doing particularly well. It shows that the structural changes and sound economic management of the last 9 years have really brought benefits. A pity that it's probably all going to be thrown away.

    But over 1.5 million are now part-time self employed. How much of that is voluntary? Very different to the mid-1970s.
    Also how many million on zero hours contracts
    The statistics say very few.
    There were estimated to be around 780,000 people employed on zero hours contracts as their main job between April and June 2018. That's roughly 2.4% of people in employment, or about one in 40 workers.
    So zero millions on zero hours contracts? :p
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    Very good jobs and wages figures just out. Real-term pay (adjusted for inflation) up 1.4% compared with a year ago,. Unemployment at 3.8% is best figure since 1974.

    Those are stonkingly good figures when you consider that both the UK economy and the world economies are not doing particularly well. It shows that the structural changes and sound economic management of the last 9 years have really brought benefits. A pity that it's probably all going to be thrown away.

    But over 1.5 million are now part-time self employed. How much of that is voluntary? Very different to the mid-1970s.
    Also how many million on zero hours contracts
    The statistics say very few.
    There were estimated to be around 780,000 people employed on zero hours contracts as their main job between April and June 2018. That's roughly 2.4% of people in employment, or about one in 40 workers.
    So answer your own question then. How many million?
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,134
    edited July 2019

    Mr. Chris, to be frank, I'm not going to be looking, I just remember it.

    The point being that the idea zero hours = evil capitalism is not the case. There's certainly room to sharpen up regulation, but they aren't inherently wicked.

    That may be your point. Mine is that - on the polling evidence we can actually identify - only 25% of those on zero-hour contracts prefer them to guaranteed hours.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,251
    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1151116947393851395

    The correct response to this is 'Oh f**k off you racist old twit'.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,986
    edited July 2019
    Mr. Chris, there's no reason those things can't both be true.

    Someone seeking work can like their part-time job, whilst hoping it becomes full-time.

    Edited extra bit: in case it wasn't clear, that's just by way of comparison, obviously I know zero hours/part-time aren't the same thing.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Nigelb said:


    Captain Boris: the worst navigator in hostile waters since Edward Smith.

    Who was the last significant politician to do a drastic handbrake-turn the second they got into office? I know there are examples, but my memory is drawing a blank.

    Heath did a pretty rapid and complete U-turn on Selsdon Man proto-Thatcherite policies, but if certainly wasn't the second he got into office.
    There have been lots of major U-turns over the years - Wilson on the Common Market, Thatcher on monetarism, Blair (and Clegg!) on tuition fees to name a few, but no PM has previously been elected on a platform which is a complete and total fantasy both politically and economically.
    Boris knows it is fantasy. Conservative MPs and members know it is fantasy. Everyone and their dog knows it is fantasy. And yet he is going to be there shortly: in office and without a plan or a mandate, or even a steady foundation of political principles.

    We are never going to witness a car crash like this again during our lifetimes.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,986
    Mr. Dickson, don't be so confident. The Angeli dynasty had a number of emperors.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Scott_P said:
    Anarchy in the UK

    Life mimics art. Again.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,983

    Mr. Chris, sorry, I don't, it was from a while ago.

    I do remember the question wasn't a preference between zero hours or full time work, it was more akin to an approve/disapprove from people in zero hours.

    MD , you mean you were just doing a Boris
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Nigelb said:


    Captain Boris: the worst navigator in hostile waters since Edward Smith.

    Who was the last significant politician to do a drastic handbrake-turn the second they got into office? I know there are examples, but my memory is drawing a blank.

    Heath did a pretty rapid and complete U-turn on Selsdon Man proto-Thatcherite policies, but if certainly wasn't the second he got into office.
    There have been lots of major U-turns over the years - Wilson on the Common Market, Thatcher on monetarism, Blair (and Clegg!) on tuition fees to name a few, but no PM has previously been elected on a platform which is a complete and total fantasy both politically and economically.
    Boris knows it is fantasy. Conservative MPs and members know it is fantasy. Everyone and their dog knows it is fantasy. And yet he is going to be there shortly: in office and without a plan or a mandate, or even a steady foundation of political principles.

    We are never going to witness a car crash like this again during our lifetimes.
    He will have a mandate. 70%+ I expect.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,986
    Mr. G, remembering something without being able to reference it is not 'doing a Boris'. I didn't break a promise, and I didn't hide in a cupboard in Afghanistan.

    If people choose to either actively disbelieve what I said or discount it due to lack of a reference, then fair enough. But to compare me to Boris? You rapscallion!
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,983
    edited July 2019

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    Very good jobs and wages figures just out. Real-term pay (adjusted for inflation) up 1.4% compared with a year ago,. Unemployment at 3.8% is best figure since 1974.

    Those are stonkingly good figures when you consider that both the UK economy and the world economies are not doing particularly well. It shows that the structural changes and sound economic management of the last 9 years have really brought benefits. A pity that it's probably all going to be thrown away.

    But over 1.5 million are now part-time self employed. How much of that is voluntary? Very different to the mid-1970s.
    Also how many million on zero hours contracts
    The statistics say very few.
    There were estimated to be around 780,000 people employed on zero hours contracts as their main job between April and June 2018. That's roughly 2.4% of people in employment, or about one in 40 workers.
    So answer your own question then. How many million?
    Since you are too stupid to work it out 0.78 Million, does that help you. 1 in 40 and not anywhere near the hardly any you purported. Not only did I answer your stupid question , I now have to spell out the numbers for you.
    PS : can you provide any statistical evidence to support your "statistics say very few".
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    TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Mr. Chris, I think it was a couple of years ago. I have vague memories of Corbyn slamming zero hours contracts a short time after polling showed a majority on them approved/liked them.

    Well, if you can find it, please let us know.
    Older, but..

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2013/11/26/zero-hour-contracts-unfairly-demonised-and-oversim
    That's the poll I linked to earlier!
    Did the BBC (and so you) miss this bit from the actual report; "Zero-hours workers, when compared to the average UK employee, are just as satisfied with their job (60% versus 59%), happier with their work-life balance (65% vs. 58%), and less likely to think they are treated unfairly by their organisation (27% vs. 29%)."?
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,134

    Mr. Chris, there's no reason those things can't both be true.

    Someone seeking work can like their part-time job, whilst hoping it becomes full-time.

    Sorry, but I'm not having that.

    Your claim that I queried in the first place was "polling showed a majority of those on zero hours contracts are content with them."

    What the poll from 18 months ago actually says is this:
    "The poll shows that two-thirds (66 per cent) of zero-hours contract workers would rather have a contract with guaranteed hours. Just one in four (25 per cent) say they prefer being on a zero-hours contract."
    https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/great-jobs-with-guaranteed-hours_0.pdf

    If they'd prefer a different kind of employment, then it's quite misleading to say they are content with the kind they have now.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Chris said:

    Mr. Chris, there's no reason those things can't both be true.

    Someone seeking work can like their part-time job, whilst hoping it becomes full-time.

    Sorry, but I'm not having that.

    Your claim that I queried in the first place was "polling showed a majority of those on zero hours contracts are content with them."

    What the poll from 18 months ago actually says is this:
    "The poll shows that two-thirds (66 per cent) of zero-hours contract workers would rather have a contract with guaranteed hours. Just one in four (25 per cent) say they prefer being on a zero-hours contract."
    https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/great-jobs-with-guaranteed-hours_0.pdf

    If they'd prefer a different kind of employment, then it's quite misleading to say they are content with the kind they have now.
    You can be happy with something but also want something else at the same time, can’t you?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    Briefly on topic, I think B&R will be a LibDem win, but an unconvincing one. I think the local MP is broadly popular, and the Brexit Party may well be the dog that didn't bite. I'm going for:

    LD 40%
    Con 35%
    BXP 15%

  • Options
    TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Mr. Chris, I think it was a couple of years ago. I have vague memories of Corbyn slamming zero hours contracts a short time after polling showed a majority on them approved/liked them.

    Well, if you can find it, please let us know.
    Older, but..

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2013/11/26/zero-hour-contracts-unfairly-demonised-and-oversim
    That's the poll I linked to earlier!
    Did the BBC (and so you) miss this bit from the actual report; "Zero-hours workers, when compared to the average UK employee, are just as satisfied with their job (60% versus 59%), happier with their work-life balance (65% vs. 58%), and less likely to think they are treated unfairly by their organisation (27% vs. 29%)."?
    And from their 2015 version; "The proportion of zero-hours contract employees who are either very satisfied or satisfied with their jobs is 65%, slightly higher than the proportion for employees as a whole (63%).

    Zero-hours contract employees are more likely to see their work–life balance in a positive light (62% strongly agree or agree they have the right balance) than other employees (58%)"

    https://www.cipd.co.uk/Images/zero-hours-and-short-hours-contracts-in-the-uk_2015-employer-employee-perspectives_tcm18-10713.pdf
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,986
    Mr. Chris, if it's a straight approval/disapproval, it's entirely possible to approve of your current situation whilst also wanting more/something else. A chap can enjoy roast carrots yet might be glad to have roast parsnips too.

    And I do think this is a side issue. My point is that zero hours are sometimes portrayed as wicked and exploitative, and that's usually not the case.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    edited July 2019

    Boris knows it is fantasy. Conservative MPs and members know it is fantasy. Everyone and their dog knows it is fantasy. And yet he is going to be there shortly: in office and without a plan or a mandate, or even a steady foundation of political principles.

    We are never going to witness a car crash like this again during our lifetimes.

    Why does the car have to crash? Boris tries one of these clever schemes to prevent MPs from stopping No Deal, Parliament comes up with some devilshly cunning counter-measure with the help of the duplicitous speaker, the holding pattern holds with everyone blaming everyone else for their treachery, and the car just carries on whizzing around the circuit for the next few years.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Interesting - what really surprises me is the low non-voter % for BXP. That suggests real mainstream inroads, rather than the sort of "for two pins I'd vote for a change" type who sometimes gave UKIP high ratings. Basically, as your figures show, they are mostly taking a chunk of regular Tory voters. Whether that remains true is likely to decide the election if it's any time soon.

    One of the false assumptions of 2017, common on PB, was that the Kippers would all go Tory. The same may well be true of the BXP.
    Also worth noting that current Conservative supporters are only 65:35 to Leave, and that's going by their 2016 vote rather than current opinion. There are a lot of Tory remainers there to lose.
    Wow. That is an amazing statistic. Are 35% of current Conservative supporters still in favour of Remaining members of the EU? That is huge, and actually hard to believe in the current bonkers climate.

    If true (what do the other pollsters say?), it would mean that even if Boris succeeds in his key goal of winning back Brexit Party supporters, he will simultaneously piss off enough current Conservative supporters to negate any gains.

    I’d hate to be a smart Tory analyst trying to explain this to The Clown. I just don’t think he is the type of personality to appreciate being shown that there are errors in his homework.
    Given 57% of Brexit Party voters voted Tory in 2017 but only 35% of the Tory vote is still made up of Remainers it is clear where the gains are, if Remainers are still voting Tory they clearly would not touch Corbyn if their life depended on it anyway, at most they would go LD
    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

    Those current Remain Con voters are easier to keep than trying to win back Brexit Party bampots. Once a voter has crossed the rubicon they are bloody difficult to win back. Ask SLab. Indeed, you yourself are evidence of the zeal of the convert.
    I am coming to the conclusion that HY doesn’t really believe all this no deal nonsense himself, but needs to say it in order to stay “in” with his local Tories, without which his ambitions of scaling the heights of Epping Parish Council would turn to dust.

    In addition to the clue of his excessive zeal, it is noticeable that what is often advanced by way of assertion generally goes unsupported by evidence or argumentation.
    Must be soul-destroying dedicating untold hours, days, weeks and years to a cause that in your heart of hearts you don’t even believe in. Tragic.
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    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469

    Scott_P said:
    Anarchy in the UK

    Life mimics art. Again.
    Isnt that just the same as prorogation?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    timmo said:

    Scott_P said:
    Anarchy in the UK

    Life mimics art. Again.
    Isnt that just the same as prorogation?
    I believe so.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,311
    Jeremy Corbyn's cognitive dissonance is such that he genuinely thinks he is an anti-racist and despises racism wherever he sees or finds it while at the same time believing the Jews are responsible for many of life's ills and injustices and hence not included in the category of people against whom one could be racist.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Scott_P said:
    Boris's top-secret masterplan looks suspiciously like what I've been advocating on pb: massively extend the transition period; punt the backstop to appease ERG; remove the hard border for Ireland; lose the Irish Sea border for the DUP; lose TM's red lines to persuade the EU. Either I've just doxed myself as an old Etonian icing sugar addict or fools seldom differ.
    Won't the hard right complain about the cost? Continuing contributions?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    Ishmael_Z said:

    dixiedean said:

    Just catching up with Boris' latest Telegraph column. Wherein his knowledge of Churchill enables him to discern the cure for mental ill health.
    Astounding that whole armies of scientists, researchers and qualified people, not to mention sufferers, have been wasting their time.
    Why didn't they simply ask Boris what Churchill did?

    Well, in a field where none of the hundreds of drug treatments reliably outperforms placebo, constructive suggestions of alternative approaches are to be welcomed. Actually Churchill's best dictum on the point was that "there is nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse," but I can see that that doesn't suit Boris's agenda.
    Didn't Boris say that that there's nothing better for the outside of a man than the inside of...
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Boris knows it is fantasy. Conservative MPs and members know it is fantasy. Everyone and their dog knows it is fantasy. And yet he is going to be there shortly: in office and without a plan or a mandate, or even a steady foundation of political principles.

    We are never going to witness a car crash like this again during our lifetimes.

    Why does the car have to crash? Boris tries one of these clever schemes to prevent MPs from stopping No Deal, Parliament comes up with some devilshly cunning counter-measure with the help of the duplicitous speaker, the holding pattern holds with everyone blaming everyone else for their treachery, and the car just carries on whizzing around the circuit for the next few years.
    In which case the car will crash at the ballot boxes, because at some point the voters *will* have their say on this hopeless shower.

    This is why I find it so hard to understand the Lib Dems picking Swinson. This scenario is Lib Dem gold, and yet they seem determined to suppress their own support. I’d have gone with the safe pair of hands from Kingston and Surbiton.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    If you are willing to prop up a Conservative government you really shouldn't be in the Labour Party. Sarah Champion completely idiotic today. Poker bluffs don't work if you say you're bluffing, so her argument is completely stupid. No time for people like her and Nandy who go on about how we must leave but yet didn't vote for the withdrawal agreement.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,311

    Boris knows it is fantasy. Conservative MPs and members know it is fantasy. Everyone and their dog knows it is fantasy. And yet he is going to be there shortly: in office and without a plan or a mandate, or even a steady foundation of political principles.

    We are never going to witness a car crash like this again during our lifetimes.

    Why does the car have to crash? Boris tries one of these clever schemes to prevent MPs from stopping No Deal, Parliament comes up with some devilshly cunning counter-measure with the help of the duplicitous speaker, the holding pattern holds with everyone blaming everyone else for their treachery, and the car just carries on whizzing around the circuit for the next few years.
    The default option is not to whiz around the circuit it is to crash out at Shuttlecock.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    If you are willing to prop up a Conservative government you really shouldn't be in the Labour Party. Sarah Champion completely idiotic today. Poker bluffs don't work if you say you're bluffing, so her argument is completely stupid. No time for people like her and Nandy who go on about how we must leave but yet didn't vote for the withdrawal agreement.

    The parliamentary Labour Party has always had a rich assortment of thickos.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,477

    If you are willing to prop up a Conservative government you really shouldn't be in the Labour Party. Sarah Champion completely idiotic today. Poker bluffs don't work if you say you're bluffing, so her argument is completely stupid. No time for people like her and Nandy who go on about how we must leave but yet didn't vote for the withdrawal agreement.

    The parliamentary Labour Party has always had a rich assortment of thickos.
    Not as bad as the SNO VONCing Callaghan's government in 1979.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    rcs1000 said:

    Briefly on topic, I think B&R will be a LibDem win, but an unconvincing one. I think the local MP is broadly popular, and the Brexit Party may well be the dog that didn't bite. I'm going for:

    LD 40%
    Con 35%
    BXP 15%

    7.5 to Labour and 2.5 to minor parties ?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    Nigelb said:
    538 did a really interesting analysis: if you're polling 35-40% in the primary polls in the second half of the year before an election, then you're the odds on favourite to get the nomination.

    If, on the other hand, you're polling 20-25%, then while you have a good chance, it's little better than those on 10-15%.

    Biden's biggest problems, though, are:

    1. He has clear negative momentum. Every poll sees him slip, and the early primary polls show him in the worst positions of all.

    2. He entered the race late, and has nothing of the organisation of Warren or Sanders.

    3. He really doesn't look like he's enjoying the race.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    rcs1000 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    dixiedean said:

    Just catching up with Boris' latest Telegraph column. Wherein his knowledge of Churchill enables him to discern the cure for mental ill health.
    Astounding that whole armies of scientists, researchers and qualified people, not to mention sufferers, have been wasting their time.
    Why didn't they simply ask Boris what Churchill did?

    Well, in a field where none of the hundreds of drug treatments reliably outperforms placebo, constructive suggestions of alternative approaches are to be welcomed. Actually Churchill's best dictum on the point was that "there is nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse," but I can see that that doesn't suit Boris's agenda.
    Didn't Boris say that that there's nothing better for the outside of a man than the inside of...
    Wasn’t it Cameron who liked nothing better than the inside of a pig?
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,721
    rcs1000 said:

    Briefly on topic, I think B&R will be a LibDem win, but an unconvincing one. I think the local MP is broadly popular, and the Brexit Party may well be the dog that didn't bite. I'm going for:

    LD 40%
    Con 35%
    BXP 15%

    So Tories down 14%, LibDems up 11%, Labour maybe down 15% and BXP up at 15%. I think the Tories and LibDems would be happy with those results, the others less so.
    The big result would be the Tory/DUP majority cut to wafer thin.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,251
    Scott_P said:
    Will soon be time to stand up and be counted.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    I'll go

    LD 45
    Con 25
    BXP 20
    Lab 7.5

    Rags 2.5
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    At an emotional level, Grieve has long since ceased to be a Conservative.
    Or possibly he feels at an emotional level that the Current Tory party has long since ceased to be Conservative.
    And Grieve is far from alone. Millions of conservatives are wondering where the hell their sensible, competent, boring old party has gone.
    Alive and well - and living in John Major's skull.....
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,251
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:
    538 did a really interesting analysis: if you're polling 35-40% in the primary polls in the second half of the year before an election, then you're the odds on favourite to get the nomination.

    If, on the other hand, you're polling 20-25%, then while you have a good chance, it's little better than those on 10-15%.

    Biden's biggest problems, though, are:

    1. He has clear negative momentum. Every poll sees him slip, and the early primary polls show him in the worst positions of all.

    2. He entered the race late, and has nothing of the organisation of Warren or Sanders.

    3. He really doesn't look like he's enjoying the race.
    Hope you are wrong because that means we are looking at two Trump terms imho.
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    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited July 2019
    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1151135740354449410

    Interesting if true. Incendiary if true.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Pulpstar said:

    I'll go

    LD 45
    Con 25
    BXP 20
    Lab 7.5

    Rags 2.5

    You need to take the night class in expectations management.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,251
    RobD said:

    timmo said:

    Scott_P said:
    Anarchy in the UK

    Life mimics art. Again.
    Isnt that just the same as prorogation?
    I believe so.
    That is a prorogation iirc. That is what it is for - to mark between sessions.

    It is now or never for No Deal MPs. Stop him becoming PM.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,983
    edited July 2019

    Scott_P said:
    Will soon be time to stand up and be counted.
    "Team Boris Johnson considering plan to suspend parliament before Brexit by organising Queens Speech in early November"


    Interesting if true. Incendiary if true.
    Well this Parliamentary session is already 2+ years long and there is nothing left in it. It does seem time to start a new session..

    For popcorn value though...
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    rcs1000 said:

    Briefly on topic, I think B&R will be a LibDem win, but an unconvincing one. I think the local MP is broadly popular, and the Brexit Party may well be the dog that didn't bite. I'm going for:

    LD 40%
    Con 35%
    BXP 15%

    So Tories down 14%, LibDems up 11%, Labour maybe down 15% and BXP up at 15%. I think the Tories and LibDems would be happy with those results, the others less so.
    The big result would be the Tory/DUP majority cut to wafer thin.

    rcs1000 said:

    Briefly on topic, I think B&R will be a LibDem win, but an unconvincing one. I think the local MP is broadly popular, and the Brexit Party may well be the dog that didn't bite. I'm going for:

    LD 40%
    Con 35%
    BXP 15%

    So Tories down 14%, LibDems up 11%, Labour maybe down 15% and BXP up at 15%. I think the Tories and LibDems would be happy with those results, the others less so.
    The big result would be the Tory/DUP majority cut to wafer thin.
    Labour will not drop 15% there.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Guto Bebb has heard the plan and is working out what to do !
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    timmo said:

    RobD said:

    Never mind the £350m. Here's a fun one - what happened to the £9bn the Bank of England spent on quantitative easing? Turns out no-one knows...

    https://twitter.com/darkgreener/status/1151123619327725570

    A tad misleading. The Bank knows, they just aren’t making it public.
    That amount is but a piffle compared to the European central banks amount of which we will never know where that has gone either..
    UK QE was hundreds of billions of pounds. Around a quarter of UK government debt is owned by the BoE.

    (As a percentage of GDP, the Japanese top the QE charts by a country mile. IIRC, they've spent 100% or so of GDP. The Eurozone is second in the high 20s, having been a late starter but going on for longer. The UK is just a smidgen behind the Eurozone, while the US is around 20% of GDP.)
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,311

    If you are willing to prop up a Conservative government you really shouldn't be in the Labour Party. Sarah Champion completely idiotic today. Poker bluffs don't work if you say you're bluffing, so her argument is completely stupid. No time for people like her and Nandy who go on about how we must leave but yet didn't vote for the withdrawal agreement.

    And yet voting for the withdrawal agreement was also seen as propping up the Conservative Party. And not unrightly so.
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Pulpstar said:

    I'll go

    LD 45
    Con 25
    BXP 20
    Lab 7.5

    Rags 2.5

    You need to take the night class in expectations management.
    But you shouldn't put too much reliance on those classes.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Pulpstar said:

    I'll go

    LD 45
    Con 25
    BXP 20
    Lab 7.5

    Rags 2.5

    You need to take the night class in expectations management.
    Who am I expecting managing there for ?

    The Brexit party and Lib Dems perhaps..

    It's what I think will happen :)
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,976
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Just catching up with Boris' latest Telegraph column. Wherein his knowledge of Churchill enables him to discern the cure for mental ill health.
    Astounding that whole armies of scientists, researchers and qualified people, not to mention sufferers, have been wasting their time.
    Why didn't they simply ask Boris what Churchill did?

    Dare I ask the treatment? Pol Roger for Breakfast, brandy for dinner?
    Hard work.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,857
    rcs1000 said:

    Briefly on topic, I think B&R will be a LibDem win, but an unconvincing one. I think the local MP is broadly popular, and the Brexit Party may well be the dog that didn't bite. I'm going for:

    LD 40%
    Con 35%
    BXP 15%

    The history tells you the seat wasn't a Liberal or LD seat until Richard Livsey won it in 1985. It was for a very long time a Labour seat and was only taken by the Conservatives in 1979.

    In 1985, at the by-election, the Liberal candidate only just got home against Labour with the Conservatives third on nearly 28% and the truth is there has always been a solid Conservative vote in the seat - whether and the extent to which that is diluted by the coming of TBP remains to be seen.

    Livsey held by 46 in 1987 and lost by 130 in 1992 so it's been that close.

    The current Conservative majority and vote share compares well to the high water mark of 1983 but is still beatable as 1985 showed. As for the LDs, their best vote share was 46.4% in 2010.

    The question for me and what will determine the outcome is not what happens to the Conservative vote but what happens to the near 18% Labour vote. If that breaks tactically to Jane Dodds, I think she will win but if not it will be very close.

    I predicted a 5,000 LD majority two or three weeks back - I think 2,000 - 3,000 now more likely.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited July 2019
    Nigelb said:
    Buttigieg surge in Iowa :

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primaries/democratic/iowa/

    Biden & Warren doing well in Nevada

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primaries/democratic/nevada/

    You can read what you like into polls at the moment, my main take is that Harris' massive betting favoritism over the other big 3 is undeserved.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    Very good jobs and wages figures just out. Real-term pay (adjusted for inflation) up 1.4% compared with a year ago,. Unemployment at 3.8% is best figure since 1974.

    Those are stonkingly good figures when you consider that both the UK economy and the world economies are not doing particularly well. It shows that the structural changes and sound economic management of the last 9 years have really brought benefits. A pity that it's probably all going to be thrown away.

    But over 1.5 million are now part-time self employed. How much of that is voluntary? Very different to the mid-1970s.
    Also how many million on zero hours contracts
    The statistics say very few.
    There were estimated to be around 780,000 people employed on zero hours contracts as their main job between April and June 2018. That's roughly 2.4% of people in employment, or about one in 40 workers.
    So answer your own question then. How many million?
    Since you are too stupid to work it out 0.78 Million, does that help you. 1 in 40 and not anywhere near the hardly any you purported. Not only did I answer your stupid question , I now have to spell out the numbers for you.
    PS : can you provide any statistical evidence to support your "statistics say very few".
    "How many million" - "very few [million]".

    0.78 million is below a million so very few millions.

    Had you not used the word million in your question the answer would have been different.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    The picture that proves umpire error handed England the Cricket World Cup

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2019/07/15/picture-proves-umpire-error-handed-england-cricket-world-cup/

    Russian linesman II
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1151135740354449410

    Interesting if true. Incendiary if true.

    Is it that incendiary? Surely a Queen's Speech is long overdue?

    Since the start of the twentieth century there have been annual State Opening's of Parliament every single year with only 2011 and 2018 being cancelled altogether [three times in the early 20th century it was brought forward]. We haven't yet had a 2019 one with the last one in 2017 so this is highly irregular and when it does finally occur it will be long, long overdue.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    The picture that proves umpire error handed England the Cricket World Cup

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2019/07/15/picture-proves-umpire-error-handed-england-cricket-world-cup/

    Russian linesman II

    Not at all. England scored the runs completed by the batsmen (2) plus the allowance for the boundary (4). Simon Taufel seemingly doesn't understand how commas work.

    https://twitter.com/norcrosscricket/status/1150809671252492288
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    The picture that proves umpire error handed England the Cricket World Cup

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2019/07/15/picture-proves-umpire-error-handed-england-cricket-world-cup/

    Russian linesman II

    This is garbage.

    If the fielder throws the ball and instead of it hitting the bat it had hit the stumps [but the batsman was safe] and then gone on to the boundary there would have been overthrows again. The rule has always in my experience been what's happened in the middle. The 'act' was when the ball hit the bat [or the stumps in past cases].
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    The picture that proves umpire error handed England the Cricket World Cup

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2019/07/15/picture-proves-umpire-error-handed-england-cricket-world-cup/

    Russian linesman II

    Not at all. England scored the runs completed by the batsmen (2) plus the allowance for the boundary (4). Simon Taufel seemingly doesn't understand how commas work.

    https://twitter.com/norcrosscricket/status/1150809671252492288
    I disagree, it should have been 5 runs but umpire's decisions once the next ball has been bowled is final.

    Has Dharmaseena or Erasmus written a report on the final yet ?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    The picture that proves umpire error handed England the Cricket World Cup

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2019/07/15/picture-proves-umpire-error-handed-england-cricket-world-cup/

    Russian linesman II

    Not at all. England scored the runs completed by the batsmen (2) plus the allowance for the boundary (4). Simon Taufel seemingly doesn't understand how commas work.

    https://twitter.com/norcrosscricket/status/1150809671252492288
    It's almost like the cricketing version of the Theresa May exit date market on Betfair...
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    The only way for Labour MPs like Sarah Champion and Caroline Flint actively to ensure a No Deal Brexit would be to refuse to vote against the government in a vote of no confidence. That would mean they lose the Labour whip and so would no longer be Labour MPs. In this way, they would not only inflict severe and sustained harm on the constituents they say they care about, they would also lose their jobs come the next election and any influence they may have to influence future events.

    There is a madness at play currently in this country everywhere that you look. And it's hard to see how it ends. But of all the madness there is, Labour MPs supporting a No Deal are perhaps the most insane of all (Kate Hoey does not count, she is UKIP).
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    TOPPING said:

    Jeremy Corbyn's cognitive dissonance is such that he genuinely thinks he is an anti-racist and despises racism wherever he sees or finds it while at the same time believing the Jews are responsible for many of life's ills and injustices and hence not included in the category of people against whom one could be racist.

    There's no real evidence Corbyn gives a damn about Jews either way. It's Israel he has a problem with.
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    The picture that proves umpire error handed England the Cricket World Cup

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2019/07/15/picture-proves-umpire-error-handed-england-cricket-world-cup/

    Russian linesman II

    I thought you said cricket was the most boring sport in existence? So why are you posting on it if not simply to troll?

    This is boring and fed by disgruntled Indian betting markets, who lost out.

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    eekeek Posts: 24,983

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1151135740354449410

    Interesting if true. Incendiary if true.

    Is it that incendiary? Surely a Queen's Speech is long overdue?

    Since the start of the twentieth century there have been annual State Opening's of Parliament every single year with only 2011 and 2018 being cancelled altogether [three times in the early 20th century it was brought forward]. We haven't yet had a 2019 one with the last one in 2017 so this is highly irregular and when it does finally occur it will be long, long overdue.
    A new Parliamentary session is required - using the timing to avoid Parliamentary oversight is however a different matter...
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Just catching up with Boris' latest Telegraph column. Wherein his knowledge of Churchill enables him to discern the cure for mental ill health.
    Astounding that whole armies of scientists, researchers and qualified people, not to mention sufferers, have been wasting their time.
    Why didn't they simply ask Boris what Churchill did?

    Dare I ask the treatment? Pol Roger for Breakfast, brandy for dinner?
    Hard work.
    Telling people with mental ill health that their cure is to work harder is the epitome of the nasty party's return.

    Boris Johnson is a &**&**&& &&**+**

    I did write the words but decided he's not worth a ban.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:
    Buttigieg surge in Iowa :

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primaries/democratic/iowa/

    Biden & Warren doing well in Nevada

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primaries/democratic/nevada/

    You can read what you like into polls at the moment, my main take is that Harris' massive betting favoritism over the other big 3 is undeserved.
    The Iowa number for Buttigieg is extraordinary. But it shouldn't surprise us that Buttigieg is doing well there: Iowa is whiter and more religious than the typical US state, and Buttigieg is (so to speak) whiter and more religious than the typical Democratic nominee.

    What all the recent polls, though, show is that the more voters see of Biden, the less impressed they are with him. The last five polls have seen Biden get (in order) 30%, 27%, 24%, 17% and 16%. Change Research has shown Biden dropping from 27% to 16% in a month.

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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,311

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    Very good jobs and wages figures just out. Real-term pay (adjusted for inflation) up 1.4% compared with a year ago,. Unemployment at 3.8% is best figure since 1974.

    Those are stonkingly good figures when you consider that both the UK economy and the world economies are not doing particularly well. It shows that the structural changes and sound economic management of the last 9 years have really brought benefits. A pity that it's probably all going to be thrown away.

    But over 1.5 million are now part-time self employed. How much of that is voluntary? Very different to the mid-1970s.
    Also how many million on zero hours contracts
    The statistics say very few.
    There were estimated to be around 780,000 people employed on zero hours contracts as their main job between April and June 2018. That's roughly 2.4% of people in employment, or about one in 40 workers.
    So answer your own question then. How many million?
    Since you are too stupid to work it out 0.78 Million, does that help you. 1 in 40 and not anywhere near the hardly any you purported. Not only did I answer your stupid question , I now have to spell out the numbers for you.
    PS : can you provide any statistical evidence to support your "statistics say very few".
    "How many million" - "very few [million]".

    0.78 million is below a million so very few millions.

    Had you not used the word million in your question the answer would have been different.
    That's not the way we speak English over here. God if even Malc gets this what hope is there for anyone else.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,251

    The only way for Labour MPs like Sarah Champion and Caroline Flint actively to ensure a No Deal Brexit would be to refuse to vote against the government in a vote of no confidence. That would mean they lose the Labour whip and so would no longer be Labour MPs. In this way, they would not only inflict severe and sustained harm on the constituents they say they care about, they would also lose their jobs come the next election and any influence they may have to influence future events.

    There is a madness at play currently in this country everywhere that you look. And it's hard to see how it ends. But of all the madness there is, Labour MPs supporting a No Deal are perhaps the most insane of all (Kate Hoey does not count, she is UKIP).

    :+1:

    Although the madness of ERG being the ones who stopped us leaving is right up there.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,311

    TOPPING said:

    Jeremy Corbyn's cognitive dissonance is such that he genuinely thinks he is an anti-racist and despises racism wherever he sees or finds it while at the same time believing the Jews are responsible for many of life's ills and injustices and hence not included in the category of people against whom one could be racist.

    There's no real evidence Corbyn gives a damn about Jews either way. It's Israel he has a problem with.
    Mural?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,251
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:
    Buttigieg surge in Iowa :

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primaries/democratic/iowa/

    Biden & Warren doing well in Nevada

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primaries/democratic/nevada/

    You can read what you like into polls at the moment, my main take is that Harris' massive betting favoritism over the other big 3 is undeserved.
    The Iowa number for Buttigieg is extraordinary. But it shouldn't surprise us that Buttigieg is doing well there: Iowa is whiter and more religious than the typical US state, and Buttigieg is (so to speak) whiter and more religious than the typical Democratic nominee.

    What all the recent polls, though, show is that the more voters see of Biden, the less impressed they are with him. The last five polls have seen Biden get (in order) 30%, 27%, 24%, 17% and 16%. Change Research has shown Biden dropping from 27% to 16% in a month.

    Unless someone pulls ahead properly (and a lot of road to go), if I have understood things, there are so many proportional awards across the primaries that we will be heading to contested convention.
This discussion has been closed.