Boris Johnson's is a sensible position. Get a standstill agreement so we are out but still following their rules, we get no say in new rules and give them money (Theresa May's transition basically) . . . deal with NI during negotiations for the future where it should belong.
Under the negotiated Withdrawal Agreement the Irish border is dealt with as part of the future deal too. The backstop does not deal with the Irish border. It puts a procedure in place to protect it in the event that it is not dealt with under the future arrangement. I don't get why this is so hard to understand. It's not that complicated.
The procedure to "protect it" deals with it until we get permission to remove the procedure. That's not OK.
Why should we be able to unilaterally decide on something that is a joint responsibility? The backstop is totally OK. What is not OK is threatening to destabilise the island of Ireland in pursuit of this absurd English nationalist project (which it turns out is actually all about kissing American arse anyway).
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
Your inability to understand the difference between being Rhode Island within the US and France within the EU explains a great deal.
Today, perhaps, but in the coming decades?
Precisely.
The EU of today is nothing like the EU of 44 years ago. Had we voted Remain and it had been another 4 decades before another vote, what would the EU look like in 4 decades time?
At last, a reason to vote for Corbyn!!!! At least he wont take this idiot's phone calls.
Trump is more popular than Corbyn with Leave voters and Tory voters in the latest Ashcroft poll
Why are people who claim they love their country and want Brexit to restore pride and get their country back, prepared to doff the cap and bend the knee to this imbecile in the White House?
Labour in a complete guddle, and still the Tories are three points behind.
Bit of a stinker for Farage’s lot.
Since the Brexit Party were formed, ComRes has delivered the largest Labour leads. Their polls since April have shown Labour leads over the Conservatives of 10%, 8%, 7%, 4% and now 3%. So in terms of house effects, they are producing results at the opposite end of the spectrum to YouGov. Nonetheless, with Johnson as leader they are still producing a Conservative lead of 7% using exactly the same people who delivered a 3% Labour lead in the standard poll.
Boris Johnson's is a sensible position. Get a standstill agreement so we are out but still following their rules, we get no say in new rules and give them money (Theresa May's transition basically) . . . deal with NI during negotiations for the future where it should belong.
Under the negotiated Withdrawal Agreement the Irish border is dealt with as part of the future deal too. The backstop does not deal with the Irish border. It puts a procedure in place to protect it in the event that it is not dealt with under the future arrangement. I don't get why this is so hard to understand. It's not that complicated.
The procedure to "protect it" deals with it until we get permission to remove the procedure. That's not OK.
Why should we be able to unilaterally decide on something that is a joint responsibility? The backstop is totally OK. What is not OK is threatening to destabilise the island of Ireland in pursuit of this absurd English nationalist project (which it turns out is actually all about kissing American arse anyway).
We should unilaterally decide on it because we have the right to self-determination. And we have the unilateral right to withdraw from the EU which the Republic of Ireland voted for by referendum after the Good Friday Agreement. No backstop exists in Article 50.
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
Australia, Canada and New Zealand are closer to us than the USA or Europe and both have the monarchy
Yet another victim of the spate of rogue geography teachers who must be made to atone for their crimes. Your English teacher (‘both’ is conventionally used as an adverb or predederminer to refer to two things, not three) needs to be held to account too.
1) Why is Trump drawing attention to a story that has not been getting much coverage in the US? It will now! Is it a “dead cat” to distract from something else, or just a a frustrated outburst of the man child?
2) Trump does not get to choose HM Ambassador.
Unfortunately, he does get to choose. If the other country digs in their heels and won't deal with the ambassador, then the ambassador has to be replaced. Sad but true.
At last, a reason to vote for Corbyn!!!! At least he wont take this idiot's phone calls.
Trump is more popular than Corbyn with Leave voters and Tory voters in the latest Ashcroft poll
Why are people who claim they love their country and want Brexit to restore pride and get their country back, prepared to doff the cap and bend the knee to this imbecile in the White House?
We don't need to be the 51st state.
We should support our ambassador.
Why does anyone suggest Brexiters are patriots? They are intent on destroying the country. Darrochgate is yet another example.
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
Australia, Canada and New Zealand are closer to us than the USA or Europe and both have the monarchy
Yet another victim of the spate of rogue geography teachers who must be made to atone for their crimes. Your English teacher (‘both’ is conventionally used as an adverb or predederminer to refer to two things, not three) needs to be held to account too.
I grew up in Australia. Culturally, politically, historically and in all ways that really matter Australia is patently much closer to the UK, USA and Canada than it is to say Papua New Guinea.
Geography doesn't matter. Europe is our neighbours in the same way as Mexico is America's neighbours, or Japan is China's, or PNG is Australia's. Canada, Australia and NZ . . . and to a lesser extent the USA are our family.
Its worth mentioning that our most important alliance, Five Eyes, includes no other European nation. Funny.
At last, a reason to vote for Corbyn!!!! At least he wont take this idiot's phone calls.
Trump is more popular than Corbyn with Leave voters and Tory voters in the latest Ashcroft poll
Why are people who claim they love their country and want Brexit to restore pride and get their country back, prepared to doff the cap and bend the knee to this imbecile in the White House?
We don't need to be the 51st state.
We should support our ambassador.
Why does anyone suggest Brexiters are patriots? They are intent on destroying the country. Darrochgate is yet another example.
1) Why is Trump drawing attention to a story that has not been getting much coverage in the US? It will now! Is it a “dead cat” to distract from something else, or just a a frustrated outburst of the man child?
2) Trump does not get to choose HM Ambassador.
Unfortunately, he does get to choose. If the other country digs in their heels and won't deal with the ambassador, then the ambassador has to be replaced. Sad but true.
But think of the advantages.
For example the UK is unlikely to get dragged into the next US military action if Trump is still in a huff.
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
Australia, Canada and New Zealand are closer to us than the USA or Europe and both have the monarchy
Yet another victim of the spate of rogue geography teachers who must be made to atone for their crimes. Your English teacher (‘both’ is conventionally used as an adverb or predederminer to refer to two things, not three) needs to be held to account too.
I grew up in Australia. Culturally, politically, historically and in all ways that really matter Australia is patently much closer to the UK, USA and Canada than it is to say Papua New Guinea.
Geography doesn't matter. Europe is our neighbours in the same way as Mexico is America's neighbours, or Japan is China's, or PNG is Australia's. Canada, Australia and NZ . . . and to a lesser extent the USA are our family.
Its worth mentioning that our most important alliance, Five Eyes, includes no other European nation. Funny.
I know you grew up in Australia. It explains why you fail to understand this country so comprehensively e.g. fact that you didn’t experience The Troubles first hand also explains why you would be prepared to see their return than have the backstop. We have been part of European civilization for millennia. Our association with Australia was brief and fleeting.
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
Australia, Canada and New Zealand are closer to us than the USA or Europe and both have the monarchy
Yet another victim of the spate of rogue geography teachers who must be made to atone for their crimes. Your English teacher (‘both’ is conventionally used as an adverb or predederminer to refer to two things, not three) needs to be held to account too.
I grew up in Australia. Culturally, politically, historically and in all ways that really matter Australia is patently much closer to the UK, USA and Canada than it is to say Papua New Guinea.
Geography doesn't matter. Europe is our neighbours in the same way as Mexico is America's neighbours, or Japan is China's, or PNG is Australia's. Canada, Australia and NZ . . . and to a lesser extent the USA are our family.
Its worth mentioning that our most important alliance, Five Eyes, includes no other European nation. Funny.
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
Your inability to understand the difference between being Rhode Island within the US and France within the EU explains a great deal.
Despite one having had the ratchett of federalism for a couple of centuries and the other for only a few decades, there are a number of areas where Rhode Island has more autonomy than France.
Give it a few more decades/centuries and I think the distinction will be very weak.
You said you could see no material difference. So, who leads Rhode Island’s army and its navy, who controls its nuclear deterrent, who is its ambassador to the UN, who decides its official language, who chooses its head of state, who decides when and how it can leave the US?
At last, a reason to vote for Corbyn!!!! At least he wont take this idiot's phone calls.
Trump is more popular than Corbyn with Leave voters and Tory voters in the latest Ashcroft poll
Trump will help drive tactical voting against Tory candidates. He’s brilliant news for Corbyn.
Let's see. How many people cited Trump as a motivating factor for their vote in 2017?
The Tory genuflection to Trump had only just begun and he wasn’t telling the PM who could and couldn’t represent the UK at that point either.
You don't remember the whole saga about May's handholding? Surprising, given how often you posted that image!
It's a shame May is so dutiful and has been brought up to be polite and reserved.
With only two weeks to go, it must be tempting to tell Trump to f**cking do one, and break open the MI6 safe with the super secret file marked 'What Trump did on a Moscow hotel bed'.
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
Australia, Canada and New Zealand are closer to us than the USA or Europe and both have the monarchy
Yet another victim of the spate of rogue geography teachers who must be made to atone for their crimes. Your English teacher (‘both’ is conventionally used as an adverb or predederminer to refer to two things, not three) needs to be held to account too.
I grew up in Australia. Culturally, politically, historically and in all ways that really matter Australia is patently much closer to the UK, USA and Canada than it is to say Papua New Guinea.
Geography doesn't matter. Europe is our neighbours in the same way as Mexico is America's neighbours, or Japan is China's, or PNG is Australia's. Canada, Australia and NZ . . . and to a lesser extent the USA are our family.
Its worth mentioning that our most important alliance, Five Eyes, includes no other European nation. Funny.
I know you grew up in Australia. It explains why you fail to understand this country so comprehensively e.g. fact that you didn’t experience The Troubles first hand also explains why you would be prepared to see their return than have the backstop. We have been part of European civilization for millennia. Our association with Australia was brief and fleeting.
Yes, most of the time at war with those on the continent. Australia, on the other hand, was colonized by us, and I don't think we've ever had bellicose relations.
At last, a reason to vote for Corbyn!!!! At least he wont take this idiot's phone calls.
Trump is more popular than Corbyn with Leave voters and Tory voters in the latest Ashcroft poll
Why are people who claim they love their country and want Brexit to restore pride and get their country back, prepared to doff the cap and bend the knee to this imbecile in the White House?
We don't need to be the 51st state.
We should support our ambassador.
Why does anyone suggest Brexiters are patriots? They are intent on destroying the country. Darrochgate is yet another example.
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
Australia, Canada and New Zealand are closer to us than the USA or Europe and both have the monarchy
Yet another victim of the spate of rogue geography teachers who must be made to atone for their crimes. Your English teacher (‘both’ is conventionally used as an adverb or predederminer to refer to two things, not three) needs to be held to account too.
I grew up in Australia. Culturally, politically, historically and in all ways that really matter Australia is patently much closer to the UK, USA and Canada than it is to say Papua New Guinea.
Geography doesn't matter. Europe is our neighbours in the same way as Mexico is America's neighbours, or Japan is China's, or PNG is Australia's. Canada, Australia and NZ . . . and to a lesser extent the USA are our family.
Its worth mentioning that our most important alliance, Five Eyes, includes no other European nation. Funny.
I know you grew up in Australia. It explains why you fail to understand this country so comprehensively e.g. fact that you didn’t experience The Troubles first hand also explains why you would be prepared to see their return than have the backstop. We have been part of European civilization for millennia. Our association with Australia was brief and fleeting.
I was here for the Troubles. My town was bombed by the IRA when I was young.
Yes we have a history going back millenia. Western nations share that history. Their history is our history.
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
Australia, Canada and New Zealand are closer to us than the USA or Europe and both have the monarchy
Yet another victim of the spate of rogue geography teachers who must be made to atone for their crimes. Your English teacher (‘both’ is conventionally used as an adverb or predederminer to refer to two things, not three) needs to be held to account too.
I grew up in Australia. Culturally, politically, historically and in all ways that really matter Australia is patently much closer to the UK, USA and Canada than it is to say Papua New Guinea.
Geography doesn't matter. Europe is our neighbours in the same way as Mexico is America's neighbours, or Japan is China's, or PNG is Australia's. Canada, Australia and NZ . . . and to a lesser extent the USA are our family.
Its worth mentioning that our most important alliance, Five Eyes, includes no other European nation. Funny.
Our most important alliance is NATO, IMHO
NATO is second-most important IMHO. And the work we have done with FiveEyes has underpinned NATO for decades even since before NATO was founded.
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
Australia, Canada and New Zealand are closer to us than the USA or Europe and both have the monarchy
Yet another victim of the spate of rogue geography teachers who must be made to atone for their crimes. Your English teacher (‘both’ is conventionally used as an adverb or predederminer to refer to two things, not three) needs to be held to account too.
I grew up in Australia. Culturally, politically, historically and in all ways that really matter Australia is patently much closer to the UK, USA and Canada than it is to say Papua New Guinea.
Geography doesn't matter. Europe is our neighbours in the same way as Mexico is America's neighbours, or Japan is China's, or PNG is Australia's. Canada, Australia and NZ . . . and to a lesser extent the USA are our family.
Its worth mentioning that our most important alliance, Five Eyes, includes no other European nation. Funny.
I know you grew up in Australia. It explains why you fail to understand this country so comprehensively e.g. fact that you didn’t experience The Troubles first hand also explains why you would be prepared to see their return than have the backstop. We have been part of European civilization for millennia. Our association with Australia was brief and fleeting.
Yes, most of the time at war with those on the continent. Australia, on the other hand, was colonized by us, and I don't think we've ever had bellicose relations.
Tell that to the people living there when we arrived.
Out of interest have any other ambassadors used inconvenient language about Trump (or for that matter other leaders) or do they just have fewer leaks than St Davids day ?
At last, a reason to vote for Corbyn!!!! At least he wont take this idiot's phone calls.
Trump is more popular than Corbyn with Leave voters and Tory voters in the latest Ashcroft poll
Trump will help drive tactical voting against Tory candidates. He’s brilliant news for Corbyn.
Let's see. How many people cited Trump as a motivating factor for their vote in 2017?
The Tory genuflection to Trump had only just begun and he wasn’t telling the PM who could and couldn’t represent the UK at that point either.
You don't remember the whole saga about May's handholding? Surprising, given how often you posted that image!
I remember it clearly. That was the start. We’re now a lot further down the route to complete subservience. But if you choose to believe Tory genuflection to Trump will not harm them electorally, so be it. I think you might be surprised.
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
Australia, Canada and New Zealand are closer to us than the USA or Europe and both have the monarchy
Yet another victim of the spate of rogue geography teachers who must be made to atone for their crimes. Your English teacher (‘both’ is conventionally used as an adverb or predederminer to refer to two things, not three) needs to be held to account too.
I grew up in Australia. Culturally, politically, historically and in all ways that really matter Australia is patently much closer to the UK, USA and Canada than it is to say Papua New Guinea.
Geography doesn't matter. Europe is our neighbours in the same way as Mexico is America's neighbours, or Japan is China's, or PNG is Australia's. Canada, Australia and NZ . . . and to a lesser extent the USA are our family.
Its worth mentioning that our most important alliance, Five Eyes, includes no other European nation. Funny.
I know you grew up in Australia. It explains why you fail to understand this country so comprehensively e.g. fact that you didn’t experience The Troubles first hand also explains why you would be prepared to see their return than have the backstop. We have been part of European civilization for millennia. Our association with Australia was brief and fleeting.
I was here for the Troubles. My town was bombed by the IRA when I was young.
Yes we have a history going back millenia. Western nations share that history. Their history is our history.
“When you were young” - too young to remember I’d wager or you would not be so blasé about it.
Boris Johnson's is a sensible position. Get a standstill agreement so we are out but still following their rules, we get no say in new rules and give them money (Theresa May's transition basically) . . . deal with NI during negotiations for the future where it should belong.
Under the negotiated Withdrawal Agreement the Irish border is dealt with as part of the future deal too. The backstop does not deal with the Irish border. It puts a procedure in place to protect it in the event that it is not dealt with under the future arrangement. I don't get why this is so hard to understand. It's not that complicated.
I think the problem is that the EU might view the backstop as the preferred outcome. That would hardly motivate them towards negotiating an actual future deal, would it.
Well, that was always my objection to the backstop. But that was dealt with between the seoncd and third variants of the Withdrawal Agreement where binding international arbitration was added.
If the EU (a) does not enter into FTA discussions in good faith, or (b) does not work to implement a technical solution, then we can take it to international arbitration.
A better way of thinking about this is that the Withdrawal Agreement places burdens on both the EU and the UK. If the EU does not fulfil its obligations, then there is a clear way for us to exit.
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
Australia, Canada and New Zealand are closer to us than the USA or Europe and both have the monarchy
Yet another victim of the spate of rogue geography teachers who must be made to atone for their crimes. Your English teacher (‘both’ is conventionally used as an adverb or predederminer to refer to two things, not three) needs to be held to account too.
I grew up in Australia. Culturally, politically, historically and in all ways that really matter Australia is patently much closer to the UK, USA and Canada than it is to say Papua New Guinea.
Geography doesn't matter. Europe is our neighbours in the same way as Mexico is America's neighbours, or Japan is China's, or PNG is Australia's. Canada, Australia and NZ . . . and to a lesser extent the USA are our family.
Its worth mentioning that our most important alliance, Five Eyes, includes no other European nation. Funny.
I know you grew up in Australia. It explains why you fail to understand this country so comprehensively e.g. fact that you didn’t experience The Troubles first hand also explains why you would be prepared to see their return than have the backstop. We have been part of European civilization for millennia. Our association with Australia was brief and fleeting.
Yes, most of the time at war with those on the continent. Australia, on the other hand, was colonized by us, and I don't think we've ever had bellicose relations.
Do you count Scotland as “those on the continent” or “us”?
In the same way Canada is about to join the USA no doubt. Ha!
Lordy - the teaching profession. Canada can’t rejoin the USA. It’s never been part of it.
Who said anything about Canada rejoining the USA?
You did through the use of the phrase “in the same way” in relation to the verb “rejoin”.
No, I used the phrase in relation to the verb "join" which was in the sentence I wrote. You may want to look up the world "analogy" before you try and nitpick people as you're wrong here.
Boris Johnson's is a sensible position. Get a standstill agreement so we are out but still following their rules, we get no say in new rules and give them money (Theresa May's transition basically) . . . deal with NI during negotiations for the future where it should belong.
Under the negotiated Withdrawal Agreement the Irish border is dealt with as part of the future deal too. The backstop does not deal with the Irish border. It puts a procedure in place to protect it in the event that it is not dealt with under the future arrangement. I don't get why this is so hard to understand. It's not that complicated.
I think the problem is that the EU might view the backstop as the preferred outcome. That would hardly motivate them towards negotiating an actual future deal, would it.
Well, that was always my objection to the backstop. But that was dealt with between the seoncd and third variants of the Withdrawal Agreement where binding international arbitration was added.
If the EU (a) does not enter into FTA discussions in good faith, or (b) does not work to implement a technical solution, then we can take it to international arbitration.
A better way of thinking about this is that the Withdrawal Agreement places burdens on both the EU and the UK. If the EU does not fulfil its obligations, then there is a clear way for us to exit.
Please give me a precise quote from the WA where it specifies that alternative arrangements must mean a technical solution.
At last, a reason to vote for Corbyn!!!! At least he wont take this idiot's phone calls.
Trump is more popular than Corbyn with Leave voters and Tory voters in the latest Ashcroft poll
Trump will help drive tactical voting against Tory candidates. He’s brilliant news for Corbyn.
Let's see. How many people cited Trump as a motivating factor for their vote in 2017?
The Tory genuflection to Trump had only just begun and he wasn’t telling the PM who could and couldn’t represent the UK at that point either.
You don't remember the whole saga about May's handholding? Surprising, given how often you posted that image!
I remember it clearly. That was the start. We’re now a lot further down the route to complete subservience. But if you choose to believe Tory genuflection to Trump will not harm them electorally, so be it. I think you might be surprised.
Strikes me that what used to be known as the Conservative party has descended into an increasingly small echo chamber without contact with the real world.
Maybe the Swinson as PM thread header is not totally bonkers after all.
Out of interest have any other ambassadors used inconvenient language about Trump (or for that matter other leaders) or do they just have fewer leaks than St Davids day ?
I'm fairly sure that the US Ambassador to the UK will have been fairly rude about Theresa May and Boris Johnson in private cables. (And I'm fairly sure that ambassasors refer to politicians and heads of state in undiplomatic language all the time.)
The correct thing for the US President to have done was to reach out to HMG in private, and let them know sotto voce that he couldn't continue to deal with an Ambassador who was known to have such views. The UK could then have quietly shuffled him off to another role; perhaps a promotion back home. And the US would have gotten what it wanted, and no feathers would have been ruffled.
Instead, the US has chosen to make a big thing of something that Ambassadors do all the time. (Albeit not splashed all over the press.)
Under these circumstances, I now really don't think we have any choice but to leave him in place under the end of his term in six months time. Simply, the UK can't be bossed around on Twitter.
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
Australia, Canada and New Zealand are closer to us than the USA or Europe and both have the monarchy
Yet another victim of the spate of rogue geography teachers who must be made to atone for their crimes. Your English teacher (‘both’ is conventionally used as an adverb or predederminer to refer to two things, not three) needs to be held to account too.
I grew up in Australia. Culturally, politically, historically and in all ways that really matter Australia is patently much closer to the UK, USA and Canada than it is to say Papua New Guinea.
Geography doesn't matter. Europe is our neighbours in the same way as Mexico is America's neighbours, or Japan is China's, or PNG is Australia's. Canada, Australia and NZ . . . and to a lesser extent the USA are our family.
Its worth mentioning that our most important alliance, Five Eyes, includes no other European nation. Funny.
Our most important alliance is NATO, IMHO
NATO is comprised of hangers on who couldn't defend a sandcastle.
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
Australia, Canada and New Zealand are closer to us than the USA or Europe and both have the monarchy
Yet another victim of the spate of rogue geography teachers who must be made to atone for their crimes. Your English teacher (‘both’ is conventionally used as an adverb or predederminer to refer to two things, not three) needs to be held to account too.
I grew up in Australia. Culturally, politically, historically and in all ways that really matter Australia is patently much closer to the UK, USA and Canada than it is to say Papua New Guinea.
Geography doesn't matter. Europe is our neighbours in the same way as Mexico is America's neighbours, or Japan is China's, or PNG is Australia's. Canada, Australia and NZ . . . and to a lesser extent the USA are our family.
Its worth mentioning that our most important alliance, Five Eyes, includes no other European nation. Funny.
I know you grew up in Australia. It explains why you fail to understand this country so comprehensively e.g. fact that you didn’t experience The Troubles first hand also explains why you would be prepared to see their return than have the backstop. We have been part of European civilization for millennia. Our association with Australia was brief and fleeting.
I was here for the Troubles. My town was bombed by the IRA when I was young.
Yes we have a history going back millenia. Western nations share that history. Their history is our history.
“When you were young” - too young to remember I’d wager or you would not be so blasé about it.
No. I was 10 when the IRA decided to murder a 12 year old and 3 year old in my town. I'm not blasé about those bastards at all.
At last, a reason to vote for Corbyn!!!! At least he wont take this idiot's phone calls.
Trump is more popular than Corbyn with Leave voters and Tory voters in the latest Ashcroft poll
Why are people who claim they love their country and want Brexit to restore pride and get their country back, prepared to doff the cap and bend the knee to this imbecile in the White House?
We don't need to be the 51st state.
We should support our ambassador.
Why does anyone suggest Brexiters are patriots? They are intent on destroying the country. Darrochgate is yet another example.
Under these circumstances, I now really don't think we have any choice but to leave him in place under the end of his term in six months time. Simply, the UK can't be bossed around on Twitter.
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
Australia, Canada and New Zealand are closer to us than the USA or Europe and both have the monarchy
Yet another victim of the spate of rogue geography teachers who must be made to atone for their crimes. Your English teacher (‘both’ is conventionally used as an adverb or predederminer to refer to two things, not three) needs to be held to account too.
I grew up in Australia. Culturally, politically, historically and in all ways that really matter Australia is patently much closer to the UK, USA and Canada than it is to say Papua New Guinea.
Geography doesn't matter. Europe is our neighbours in the same way as Mexico is America's neighbours, or Japan is China's, or PNG is Australia's. Canada, Australia and NZ . . . and to a lesser extent the USA are our family.
Its worth mentioning that our most important alliance, Five Eyes, includes no other European nation. Funny.
Our most important alliance is NATO, IMHO
NATO is comprised of hangers on who couldn't defend a sandcastle.
Five Eyes is the real business.
I don’t think Enoch would approve of us sharing our intelligence with a hostile power like the USA.
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
Australia, Canada and New Zealand are closer to us than the USA or Europe and both have the monarchy
Yet another victim of the spate of rogue geography teachers who must be made to atone for their crimes. Your English teacher (‘both’ is conventionally used as an adverb or predederminer to refer to two things, not three) needs to be held to account too.
I grew up in Australia. Culturally, politically, historically and in all ways that really matter Australia is patently much closer to the UK, USA and Canada than it is to say Papua New Guinea.
Geography doesn't matter. Europe is our neighbours in the same way as Mexico is America's neighbours, or Japan is China's, or PNG is Australia's. Canada, Australia and NZ . . . and to a lesser extent the USA are our family.
Its worth mentioning that our most important alliance, Five Eyes, includes no other European nation. Funny.
I know you grew up in Australia. It explains why you fail to understand this country so comprehensively e.g. fact that you didn’t experience The Troubles first hand also explains why you would be prepared to see their return than have the backstop. We have been part of European civilization for millennia. Our association with Australia was brief and fleeting.
Yes, most of the time at war with those on the continent. Australia, on the other hand, was colonized by us, and I don't think we've ever had bellicose relations.
Australia did somewhat disengage from the UK in WW2. Churchill wanted it and the Royal Navy to concentrate on the European theatre, they wanted to concentrate on Japan. An Australian Prime Minister fell as a result and the Aussies refocused.
Donald Trump is within his rights to treat the UK ambassador as persona non grata in the circumstances. It’s a move lacking class but he’s hardly long on class to start off with.
But, but, but, "The Special Relationship"!!!!!
The Special Relationship is nothing to do with the ambassador
It refers solely to the embedding of liaison officers within the intelligence functions of our respective services
Out of interest have any other ambassadors used inconvenient language about Trump (or for that matter other leaders) or do they just have fewer leaks than St Davids day ?
I'm fairly sure that the US Ambassador to the UK will have been fairly rude about Theresa May and Boris Johnson in private cables. (And I'm fairly sure that ambassasors refer to politicians and heads of state in undiplomatic language all the time.)
The correct thing for the US President to have done was to reach out to HMG in private, and let them know sotto voce that he couldn't continue to deal with an Ambassador who was known to have such views. The UK could then have quietly shuffled him off to another role; perhaps a promotion back home. And the US would have gotten what it wanted, and no feathers would have been ruffled.
Instead, the US has chosen to make a big thing of something that Ambassadors do all the time. (Albeit not splashed all over the press.)
Under these circumstances, I now really don't think we have any choice but to leave him in place under the end of his term in six months time. Simply, the UK can't be bossed around on Twitter.
Is Twatter the most malign product of the IT age ?
Tbh, Darroch is a fool, the person who leaked it should be strung up and a Bozza would have replaced Darroch either way.
Why is Darroch a fool?
Either Darroch was so ignorant he thought what he was writing couldn't be leaked ... ... or he was so ignorant as to think if leaked it wouldn't piss off our most important ally ... or he knew it could be leaked and would piss off our ally but didn't care.
Tbh, Darroch is a fool, the person who leaked it should be strung up and a Bozza would have replaced Darroch either way.
He really is an idiot. We are British, we have a wonderful language - there are a million ways you can say what he said and make it perfectly plain to the reader whilst at the same time the words are totally innocuous. What the ambassador did was give way to vituperation and indulge in passing judgement. It is amateur hour stuff. And this is one of the highest offices in the entire diplomatic service. But what do you expect when you employ a man named Kim?
Out of interest have any other ambassadors used inconvenient language about Trump (or for that matter other leaders) or do they just have fewer leaks than St Davids day ?
I'm fairly sure that the US Ambassador to the UK will have been fairly rude about Theresa May and Boris Johnson in private cables. (And I'm fairly sure that ambassasors refer to politicians and heads of state in undiplomatic language all the time.)
The correct thing for the US President to have done was to reach out to HMG in private, and let them know sotto voce that he couldn't continue to deal with an Ambassador who was known to have such views. The UK could then have quietly shuffled him off to another role; perhaps a promotion back home. And the US would have gotten what it wanted, and no feathers would have been ruffled.
Instead, the US has chosen to make a big thing of something that Ambassadors do all the time. (Albeit not splashed all over the press.)
Under these circumstances, I now really don't think we have any choice but to leave him in place under the end of his term in six months time. Simply, the UK can't be bossed around on Twitter.
Tbh, Darroch is a fool, the person who leaked it should be strung up and a Bozza would have replaced Darroch either way.
He really is an idiot. We are British, we have a wonderful language - there are a million ways you can say what he said and make it perfectly plain to the reader whilst at the same time the words are totally innocuous. What the ambassador did was give way to vituperation and indulge in passing judgement. It is amateur hour stuff. And this is one of the highest offices in the entire diplomatic service. But what do you expect when you employ a man named Kim?
Crap.
If you go down this route then there is no point having any diplomatic cables at all.
I am old enough to remember when a President with brown skin was condemned for talking about queues. Now, it seems, a President with orange skin can tell the UK who it can and cannot have representing it.
Tbh, Darroch is a fool, the person who leaked it should be strung up and a Bozza would have replaced Darroch either way.
He really is an idiot. We are British, we have a wonderful language - there are a million ways you can say what he said and make it perfectly plain to the reader whilst at the same time the words are totally innocuous. What the ambassador did was give way to vituperation and indulge in passing judgement. It is amateur hour stuff. And this is one of the highest offices in the entire diplomatic service. But what do you expect when you employ a man named Kim?
The language ironically is rather undiplomatic.
But its 2019, Wikileaks was years ago and stuff has been leaking for a very long time now. This leaking shouldn't be too surprising. Realistically now diplomats should be aware what they are writing can be leaked.
Out of interest have any other ambassadors used inconvenient language about Trump (or for that matter other leaders) or do they just have fewer leaks than St Davids day ?
More leaky than St Davids day.
I really like that as a saying - is that original or has someone used it before ?
The real irony, of course, is that No Deal will actually make our relationship with the US worse, thanks to the power and reach of the Irish-American lobby.
Out of interest have any other ambassadors used inconvenient language about Trump (or for that matter other leaders) or do they just have fewer leaks than St Davids day ?
I'm fairly sure that the US Ambassador to the UK will have been fairly rude about Theresa May and Boris Johnson in private cables. (And I'm fairly sure that ambassasors refer to politicians and heads of state in undiplomatic language all the time.)
The correct thing for the US President to have done was to reach out to HMG in private, and let them know sotto voce that he couldn't continue to deal with an Ambassador who was known to have such views. The UK could then have quietly shuffled him off to another role; perhaps a promotion back home. And the US would have gotten what it wanted, and no feathers would have been ruffled.
Instead, the US has chosen to make a big thing of something that Ambassadors do all the time. (Albeit not splashed all over the press.)
Under these circumstances, I now really don't think we have any choice but to leave him in place under the end of his term in six months time. Simply, the UK can't be bossed around on Twitter.
I think in reality we will find that we have no choice but to replace him.
Tbh, Darroch is a fool, the person who leaked it should be strung up and a Bozza would have replaced Darroch either way.
Why is Darroch a fool?
Either Darroch was so ignorant he thought what he was writing couldn't be leaked ... ... or he was so ignorant as to think if leaked it wouldn't piss off our most important ally ... or he knew it could be leaked and would piss off our ally but didn't care.
None of those seem positive.
I am pretty sure that all our diplomatic staff operate under the idea that what they cable London will not be leaked. How on earth do you expect them to do their jobs?
How many diplomatic cables have been leaked to the press in, say, the last twenty years?
Tbh, Darroch is a fool, the person who leaked it should be strung up and a Bozza would have replaced Darroch either way.
Why is Darroch a fool?
Either Darroch was so ignorant he thought what he was writing couldn't be leaked ... ... or he was so ignorant as to think if leaked it wouldn't piss off our most important ally ... or he knew it could be leaked and would piss off our ally but didn't care.
None of those seem positive.
You also have to wonder if he thought he was passing on genuinely useful intelligence to HMG who perhaps had not noticed how dysfunctional the White House is with its current inhabitant (In fairness glass houses and stones come to mind).
Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.
Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?
I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.
At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
Australia, Canada and New Zealand are closer to us than the USA or Europe and both have the monarchy
Yet another victim of the spate of rogue geography teachers who must be made to atone for their crimes. Your English teacher (‘both’ is conventionally used as an adverb or predederminer to refer to two things, not three) needs to be held to account too.
I grew up in Australia. Culturally, politically, historically and in all ways that really matter Australia is patently much closer to the UK, USA and Canada than it is to say Papua New Guinea.
Geography doesn't matter. Europe is our neighbours in the same way as Mexico is America's neighbours, or Japan is China's, or PNG is Australia's. Canada, Australia and NZ . . . and to a lesser extent the USA are our family.
Its worth mentioning that our most important alliance, Five Eyes, includes no other European nation. Funny.
I know you grew up in Australia. It explains why you fail to understand this country so comprehensively e.g. fact that you didn’t experience The Troubles first hand also explains why you would be prepared to see their return than have the backstop. We have been part of European civilization for millennia. Our association with Australia was brief and fleeting.
Yes, most of the time at war with those on the continent. Australia, on the other hand, was colonized by us, and I don't think we've ever had bellicose relations.
Do you count Scotland as “those on the continent” or “us”?
England has fought more wars with Scotland than any other nation, bar France.
However as the UK we have fought none between us (bar the Jacobite rebellion when half the Hanoverian army was Scottish lowlanders)
Tbh, Darroch is a fool, the person who leaked it should be strung up and a Bozza would have replaced Darroch either way.
Why is Darroch a fool?
Either Darroch was so ignorant he thought what he was writing couldn't be leaked ... ... or he was so ignorant as to think if leaked it wouldn't piss off our most important ally ... or he knew it could be leaked and would piss off our ally but didn't care.
None of those seem positive.
I think our ambassadors write fairly frank stuff about heads of state and politicians all the time. Do you really think there's not an email out there from a UK diplomat complaining of Juncker's drinking? Or disparaging Merkel for being parochial? Or perhaps saying that Macron is arrogant and out of touch.
And I'm certain that when Obama was President, there will have been a dispatch about how his Kenyan father caused him to resent the British, etc.
Do we demand that our diplomats never say what they think because of the risk of leaks?
Comments
The EU of today is nothing like the EU of 44 years ago. Had we voted Remain and it had been another 4 decades before another vote, what would the EU look like in 4 decades time?
We don't need to be the 51st state.
We should support our ambassador.
Nobody likes thugs and bullies.
I can see that putting off people who believe in Britain.
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1148324305245286400?s=21
Geography doesn't matter. Europe is our neighbours in the same way as Mexico is America's neighbours, or Japan is China's, or PNG is Australia's. Canada, Australia and NZ . . . and to a lesser extent the USA are our family.
Its worth mentioning that our most important alliance, Five Eyes, includes no other European nation. Funny.
Tory majority 36
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=32&LAB=25&LIB=17&Brexit=14&Green=2&UKIP=2&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
With Hunt Labour 263, Tories 258, LDs 49, SNP 37, Brexit Party 21.
Labour 63 short of a majority but Corbyn minority government propped up by LDs and SNP
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=27&LAB=27&LIB=17&Brexit=18&Green=2&UKIP=2&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
Her Majesty's diplomatic service should make it clear that he can piss off.
And he can forget another State Visit ever happening again, even if he manages to get himself a third term.
Scum.
For example the UK is unlikely to get dragged into the next US military action if Trump is still in a huff.
https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-dup-deal-billion-pound-bribe-magic-money-tree-criticism-latest-a7809416.html?amp
With only two weeks to go, it must be tempting to tell Trump to f**cking do one, and break open the MI6 safe with the super secret file marked 'What Trump did on a Moscow hotel bed'.
However, if we weren’t desperate for a US free trade agreement we would find it easier to tell him to fuck off.
This is a real example of Britain’s loss of power since the vote.
Yes we have a history going back millenia. Western nations share that history. Their history is our history.
https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-majority-of-tory-members-would-accept-scottish-independence-as-price-of-brexit-1-4949043/amp
The Queen has seen it all. But she must be feeling extremely badly advised to allow this clown into her house.
Where is our national pride? Our dignity?
“When you were young” - too young to remember I’d wager or you would not be so blasé about it.
Let's see how the US Deep State reacts to that.
If the EU (a) does not enter into FTA discussions in good faith, or (b) does not work to implement a technical solution, then we can take it to international arbitration.
A better way of thinking about this is that the Withdrawal Agreement places burdens on both the EU and the UK. If the EU does not fulfil its obligations, then there is a clear way for us to exit.
Five Eyes > NATO > The EU
Maybe the Swinson as PM thread header is not totally bonkers after all.
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1148339719262089216
The correct thing for the US President to have done was to reach out to HMG in private, and let them know sotto voce that he couldn't continue to deal with an Ambassador who was known to have such views. The UK could then have quietly shuffled him off to another role; perhaps a promotion back home. And the US would have gotten what it wanted, and no feathers would have been ruffled.
Instead, the US has chosen to make a big thing of something that Ambassadors do all the time. (Albeit not splashed all over the press.)
Under these circumstances, I now really don't think we have any choice but to leave him in place under the end of his term in six months time. Simply, the UK can't be bossed around on Twitter.
Five Eyes is the real business.
Anyway given that the Queen has hosted Mobuto, Ceausescu, Mugabe, Banda and various Saudis I doubt even Trump could surprise too much.
Wasn't there some story of an Arab visitor who pissed on the Buck Palace carpet ?
This. The UK interest in the Brexiteer world is to be the crappiest state in the Union.
How have people fallen for this snake oil crap?
It refers solely to the embedding of liaison officers within the intelligence functions of our respective services
Banks: I would cut my own head off in order to become a satellite of the United States.
Imagine having it during the Cold War.
... or he was so ignorant as to think if leaked it wouldn't piss off our most important ally
... or he knew it could be leaked and would piss off our ally but didn't care.
None of those seem positive.
https://twitter.com/damocrat/status/1148161708999004161?s=21
If you go down this route then there is no point having any diplomatic cables at all.
But its 2019, Wikileaks was years ago and stuff has been leaking for a very long time now. This leaking shouldn't be too surprising. Realistically now diplomats should be aware what they are writing can be leaked.
I really like that as a saying - is that original or has someone used it before ?
"The Anglophone conflict
Bitter and violent clashes between the English and French-speaking parts of Cameroon""
https://news.sky.com/story/an-english-speaking-crisis-inside-cameroons-brutal-complex-conflict-11758928
How many diplomatic cables have been leaked to the press in, say, the last twenty years?
Or was he just indulging himself?
However as the UK we have fought none between us (bar the Jacobite rebellion when half the Hanoverian army was Scottish lowlanders)
And I'm certain that when Obama was President, there will have been a dispatch about how his Kenyan father caused him to resent the British, etc.
Do we demand that our diplomats never say what they think because of the risk of leaks?