I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
No, it makes me someone who respects democracy and the Leave vote.
Not a diehard Remainer who refuses to respect democracy and is determined to Stop Brexit
Vote Leave, Boris Johnson included, said No Deal wouldn’t happen, a No Deal Brexit doesn’t respect democracy.
The ballot paper just said leave or remain , it didnt say how, you can blame your chum Cameron for that
No. Cameron wasn't arguing for leave; he was arguing for remain. He did the legwork, got an agreement with the EU, and that was remain's position. There was no way he could have set out leave's position as well.
Leave, on the other hand, lied. They made contradictory promises that have proved impossible to reconcile, and hence we've ended up in the current position.
Hardcore leavers - and especially the Brexiteers - need to start taking some responsibility for this mess.
Cameron could have mandated a commission to specify what (realistic) model would be meant by "Leave". Just as John Howard did in 1997-1999.
Don't you all love the democratic elections of the EU's multiple presidencies?
First off all substitute the word chairman for president as that is all it means. Secondly every single appointment requires either U.K. PM or elected MEPs involvement by peddling these lies you continue to try and perpetuate the myth of the ‘undemocratic’ EU. You’d be better challenging Farage to get off his arse and do some work to earn his salary.
No, it makes me someone who respects democracy and the Leave vote.
Not a diehard Remainer who refuses to respect democracy and is determined to Stop Brexit
Vote Leave, Boris Johnson included, said No Deal wouldn’t happen, a No Deal Brexit doesn’t respect democracy.
The ballot paper just said leave or remain , it didnt say how, you can blame your chum Cameron for that
No. Cameron wasn't arguing for leave; he was arguing for remain. He did the legwork, got an agreement with the EU, and that was remain's position. There was no way he could have set out leave's position as well.
Leave, on the other hand, lied. They made contradictory promises that have proved impossible to reconcile, and hence we've ended up in the current position.
Hardcore leavers - and especially the Brexiteers - need to start taking some responsibility for this mess.
Cameron set up the choice. In 1999 in Australia the monarchist John Howard presided over a referendum on whether Australia should be a republic. Before the referendum he had republicans take part in a commission that determined what form of a republic Australia would take if it was voted through.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
Impossible to read this and not conclude (as I have long concluded) that we will (eventually) do one of two things -
Either ratify the Withdrawal Agreement or cancel Brexit.
Right now, I have it as a 75/25 chance respectively.
I'd say it was the other way round.
We will only ratify the WA if the ERG and DUP accept it. And the ERG will have to eat a veritable banquet of their own words to do that. The DUP will never accept the backstop. And the BXP will continue to cry betrayal if anything short of no deal is pushed through. And will Labour MPs back a Boris deal when they did not back the same deal under May? Hard to see that happening - Labour's contempt for Boris is more visceral than their dislike of May. I just do not see how a HoC majority can be built for a deal.
It is probably in Labour's best interest as well as the Tories' to let the WA pass. Once Brexit is done it's salience as an issue will gradually decline, and with it the ratings of both the Brexit Party and the LibDems. It is these two insurgents which arecurrently crippling the main parties, both of which urgently need a return to two party politics. I expect a sufficient number of Labour 'rebels' will be given the quiet nod to vote with the government.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without them the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
So do all your fellow fearmongers. Doesn't mean much to those of us who aren't afraid.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
So do all your fellow fearmongers. Doesn't mean much to those of us who aren't afraid.
I'm not afraid - in fact I'm fully invested in what is likely to occur as, (like Rees Mogg) I expect to make a fortune from No Deal.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
Many current pensioners are sitting on sizeable capital gains from the housing inflation of those days. True enough that many who were pensioners in the 1970s did suffer as you describe.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Why is he an idiot? Do you enjoy filling in forms?
Idiot because he will lose all his subsidies and be job hunting soon. See if he can make a living on his own the cretin.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
So do all your fellow fearmongers. Doesn't mean much to those of us who aren't afraid.
I'm not afraid - in fact I'm fully invested in what is likely to occur as, (like Rees Mogg) I expect to make a fortune from No Deal.
Bring it on then.
The Chicken Licken Remain doommongers have been wrong every stage so far.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
Many current pensioners are sitting on sizeable capital gains from the housing inflation of those days. True enough that many who were pensioners in the 1970s did suffer as you describe.
Who is going to pay the inflated prices for these houses if we f... business, jobs and the economy?
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
Many current pensioners are sitting on sizeable capital gains from the housing inflation of those days. True enough that many who were pensioners in the 1970s did suffer as you describe.
If you think house prices will remain high for ever more I think you are in for a surprise.
At some point house prices will have to return to levels that local wages can afford - granted a market can stay irrational for longer than someone to bet against it but that day will come.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
So do all your fellow fearmongers. Doesn't mean much to those of us who aren't afraid.
Well I saw friends ruined in the 70's by inflation. Don't want to see that happen again.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
You do mean our debt chest I imagine, or are you that stupid
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
Many current pensioners are sitting on sizeable capital gains from the housing inflation of those days. True enough that many who were pensioners in the 1970s did suffer as you describe.
If you think house prices will remain high for ever more I think you are in for a surprise.
At some point house prices will have to return to levels that local wages can afford - granted a market can stay irrational for longer than someone to bet against it but that day will come.
So long as there's a shortage of housing all is well.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Why is he an idiot? Do you enjoy filling in forms?
Idiot because he will lose all his subsidies and be job hunting soon. See if he can make a living on his own the cretin.
Where did the subsidies come from o wiseacre? And where will they have gone when we've left?
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
Winners and losers. Pig farmers win because they compete against less imported Danish bacon so prices go up. Beef, and especially sheep, farmers lose their only significant export market. Perceptions will be that Brexit screws farmers because pig farmers will earn more while hill farmers will see their livelihoods destroyed. Also applies to fish farmers
BTW deal means replication of CAP and CFP.
Addendum. Large scale farmers have a vested interest in depressed land values as it allows them to buy up smallholdings in the cheap.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
Many current pensioners are sitting on sizeable capital gains from the housing inflation of those days. True enough that many who were pensioners in the 1970s did suffer as you describe.
If you think house prices will remain high for ever more I think you are in for a surprise.
At some point house prices will have to return to levels that local wages can afford - granted a market can stay irrational for longer than someone to bet against it but that day will come.
So long as there's a shortage of housing all is well.
The only way to significantly reduce the cost of housing would be for a huge tax on owning homes to rent out as a landlord and ban non Uk citizens from buying Uk property.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
Many current pensioners are sitting on sizeable capital gains from the housing inflation of those days. True enough that many who were pensioners in the 1970s did suffer as you describe.
If you think house prices will remain high for ever more I think you are in for a surprise.
At some point house prices will have to return to levels that local wages can afford - granted a market can stay irrational for longer than someone to bet against it but that day will come.
Interesting reasoning about tax havens - I wonder why they are so keen to be taxed in the UK/Netherlands rather than Japan.
UK rates are way lower than Japanese rates.
They said the effect of the UK cutting rates would be an increase in their Japanese tax bill. Unless the Japanese rules are punitive, that is surely just a transfer of tax. At least, that's how most tax floors work.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Why is he an idiot? Do you enjoy filling in forms?
Idiot because he will lose all his subsidies and be job hunting soon. See if he can make a living on his own the cretin.
Where did the subsidies come from o wiseacre? And where will they have gone when we've left?
they will be needed to mop up the sh**fest, farmers will be shafted and have 60 pages of crap to fill in to get a fraction of previous benefits handouts and well deserved it will be. Their cosy featherbedded existence will soon be gone and they may have to fend for themselves.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Why is he an idiot? Do you enjoy filling in forms?
Idiot because he will lose all his subsidies and be job hunting soon. See if he can make a living on his own the cretin.
Where did the subsidies come from o wiseacre? And where will they have gone when we've left?
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
You do mean our debt chest I imagine, or are you that stupid
He isn't that stupid, he is even more stupid than that
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
Winners and losers. Pig farmers win because they compete against less imported Danish bacon so prices go up. Beef, and especially sheep, farmers lose their only significant export market. Perceptions will be that Brexit screws farmers because pig farmers will earn more while hill farmers will see their livelihoods destroyed. Also applies to fish farmers
BTW deal means replication of CAP and CFP.
Addendum. Large scale farmers have a vested interest in depressed land values as it allows them to buy up smallholdings in the cheap.
LOL, for about 10 mins, they will pass it to the BBC equivalent like TV licences and poof it will be gone
The only way to significantly reduce the cost of housing would be for a huge tax on owning homes to rent out as a landlord and ban non Uk citizens from buying Uk property.
Neither are happening anytime ever.
No the way to significantly reduce the cost of housing would be wholesale liberation of our planning laws and abolition of the green belt.
Good header. In my opinion No Deal and Comprehensive FTA are exercises in denial. The UK is heading to be a subordinate satellite of the EU. We won't enjoy that status much.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
Many current pensioners are sitting on sizeable capital gains from the housing inflation of those days. True enough that many who were pensioners in the 1970s did suffer as you describe.
If you think house prices will remain high for ever more I think you are in for a surprise.
At some point house prices will have to return to levels that local wages can afford - granted a market can stay irrational for longer than someone to bet against it but that day will come.
So long as there's a shortage of housing all is well.
The only way to significantly reduce the cost of housing would be for a huge tax on owning homes to rent out as a landlord and ban non Uk citizens from buying Uk property.
Neither are happening anytime ever.
See what happens when Corbyn comes in and starts giving private tenants the right to buy at a discount and possibly a land value tax. Or whenever inflation rises again. Or when unemployment soars. Etc.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Why is he an idiot? Do you enjoy filling in forms?
Idiot because he will lose all his subsidies and be job hunting soon. See if he can make a living on his own the cretin.
Where did the subsidies come from o wiseacre? And where will they have gone when we've left?
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
You do mean our debt chest I imagine, or are you that stupid
He isn't that stupid, he is even more stupid than that
cockroach out and about again, keep pulling bellend
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
So do all your fellow fearmongers. Doesn't mean much to those of us who aren't afraid.
I'm not afraid - in fact I'm fully invested in what is likely to occur as, (like Rees Mogg) I expect to make a fortune from No Deal.
Bring it on then.
The Chicken Licken Remain doommongers have been wrong every stage so far.
Nope. You are being so dumb again. No time to explain tho, have some work to do. I guess you work in some nicely insulated business or public sector job that will be unaffected. What a bunch of selfish wankers you leavers are.
Posted my vote for Hunt this AM. Futile, I know, but still have to try and avoid Boris.
Well done - but as you say, futile.
I hope SI put a spread market up on BoJo vote share. I would buy it anywhere in the 60s.
My prediction - 72/28.
Hunt has fallen more in my estimation than Boris has during the last two weeks albeit not to the level Boris is at.
Agree with that. Still voted for him, that said.
In which case he's calculated his pitch to Johnson's supporters pretty well: gave himself a chance of picking some up without jeapordising his natural appeal to anti-Johnson members.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Why is he an idiot? Do you enjoy filling in forms?
Idiot because he will lose all his subsidies and be job hunting soon. See if he can make a living on his own the cretin.
Where did the subsidies come from o wiseacre? And where will they have gone when we've left?
If, and its a big if, the kinds of subsidies are replicated by UK government, there will be a form to fill, just as before. In fact it will probably be even more onerous and shambolic. Rural Payments system anyone?
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Why is he an idiot? Do you enjoy filling in forms?
Idiot because he will lose all his subsidies and be job hunting soon. See if he can make a living on his own the cretin.
Where did the subsidies come from o wiseacre? And where will they have gone when we've left?
they will be needed to mop up the sh**fest, farmers will be shafted and have 60 pages of crap to fill in to get a fraction of previous benefits handouts and well deserved it will be. Their cosy featherbedded existence will soon be gone and they may have to fend for themselves.
Quite right. Farming only represents about 0.5% of GDP, so the politicians will have no compunction about letting it go to the wall. I suspects that's what Hunt's fox-hunting thing was all about: give the yokels that one sweetener then sit back and watch them plummet to their doom.
Congratulations to OGH and his lady wife for their Golden Anniversary!
And to any other PB’ers celebrating anniversaries.
It is also 31 years to the day since I got together with my other half. In Gorbachev’s Russia of all places. And my youngest (only just 21) has got a II(I) in his Politics / Economics degree. I could not be more proud of him. He wrote his dissertation on the rise of populism in Italy so if anyone is interested in how Matteo Salvini uses Facebook to spread his creed, Cyclefree Junior is your man.
Posted my vote for Hunt this AM. Futile, I know, but still have to try and avoid Boris.
Well done - but as you say, futile.
I hope SI put a spread market up on BoJo vote share. I would buy it anywhere in the 60s.
My prediction - 72/28.
Hunt has fallen more in my estimation than Boris has during the last two weeks albeit not to the level Boris is at.
Agree with that. Still voted for him, that said.
In which case he's calculated his pitch to Johnson's supporters pretty well: gave himself a chance of picking some up without jeapordising his natural appeal to anti-Johnson members.
Yes true. There was nothing that was going to make me vote Johnson so why not try to out-bonkers him (I am talking here mainly about his comments on no deal).
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to ... the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
Many current pensioners are sitting on sizeable capital gains from the housing inflation of those days. True enough that many who were pensioners in the 1970s did suffer as you describe.
If you think house prices will remain high for ever more I think you are in for a surprise.
At some point house prices will have to return to levels that local wages can afford - granted a market can stay irrational for longer than someone to bet against it but that day will come.
The market is neither rational nor irrational. That is pure anthropomorphism. Current monetary policy with ludicrously low interest rates and quantitative easing supports the high housing prices. UK interest rates will remain low for policy purposes after we leave, so I do not foresee a house price collapse. Only a fool would "think house prices will remain high for ever more".
Good header. In my opinion No Deal and Comprehensive FTA are exercises in denial. The UK is heading to be a subordinate satellite of the EU. We won't enjoy that status much.
The UK:EU relationship will be rather more equal than the Taiwan:China one but probably rather less equal than Canada:USA.
"Were a General Election to be held between now and 31st October it is ridiculously complicated to know what would happen. Every outcome between a No Deal Brexit and a Remain electoral pact that could put the UK on the track towards a Second Referendum are possible outcomes.
After 23rd July, when the outcome of the Tory Leadership election is known, UK politics is going to get very interesting indeed, were it not already interesting enough!"
Totally O/T, but BBC are reporting that 'An uninsured Lamborghini has been seized by police after the owner used it to pick up his other car - also confiscated for not being insured.'
Good header. In my opinion No Deal and Comprehensive FTA are exercises in denial. The UK is heading to be a subordinate satellite of the EU. We won't enjoy that status much.
The UK:EU relationship will be rather more equal than the Taiwan:China one but probably rather less equal than Canada:USA.
The EU is the only show in town in Europe, so the UK is dealing with a consortium of European states from the outside. Never easy. The EU increasingly owns the international trading system. The UK won't really have any choice but to go along with it on a rule taking basis. The EU is the gatekeeper to the system, however, which gives it and its members a lot of leverage. Expect that leverage to be used. The UK does however get some influence thanks to its size and money (hint: Brexit will be very expensive in actual money costs, not just revenue foregone)
What are the consequences of these choices? Low or no tariffs will severely harm a number of sectors, make imports cheap for consumers but provide little incentive for countries to enter into FTAs. What could Britain offer if access to its markets was already open?
Speaking as a neoliberal without much skin in this game, plus a lot of the people who get screwed will deserve it for voting to screw over foreigners without realizing they were screwing themselves, I like the idea of doing three years with no import tariffs, regardless of who reciprocates. Say you'll reimpose normal tariffs at the end of the three years.
During that time businesses in other countries will get used to selling stuff in Britain and lobby their governments to preserve their access at the end of the three years. So that potentially gives you more openness to trade deals for the long term than you'd have got if you'd tried to negotiate with your markets closed, and you can also offer more generous terms once the tariff jubilee has ended as an enticement to encourage people to open up their markets before the three years are up.
Nice article @Cyclefree but I'm afraid the call to be reasonable comes far too late; decades too late.
It's rather like an interaction frequently seen between a man and a woman. The woman states her case quietly and reasonably; the man takes no notice. The woman tries again, quietly & reasonably; the man takes no notice. This goes on until the woman reaches screaming point. Then the man is terribly wounded and asks her: "Why can't you just say what you want, quietly and reasonably?"
The politicians have been ignoring the concerns about the EU held by a lot of people for too long. Sorry about that; genuinely sorry about that. I've been genuinely sorry about it for decades. It's not good for any of us.
Nice article @Cyclefree but I'm afraid the call to be reasonable comes far too late; decades too late.
It's rather like an interaction frequently seen between a man and a woman. The woman states her case quietly and reasonably; the man takes no notice. The woman tries again, quietly & reasonably; the man takes no notice. This goes on until the woman reaches screaming point. Then the man is terribly wounded and asks her: "Why can't you just say what you want, quietly and reasonably?"
The politicians have been ignoring the concerns about the EU held by a lot of people for too long. Sorry about that; genuinely sorry about that. I've been genuinely sorry about it for decades. It's not good for any of us.
Good morning, everyone.
Some politicians, including our soon to be Prime Minister, have been stoking the anti-EU sentiment for decade with lies and half truths about the EU. Thye're still doing it.
"Were a General Election to be held between now and 31st October it is ridiculously complicated to know what would happen. Every outcome between a No Deal Brexit and a Remain electoral pact that could put the UK on the track towards a Second Referendum are possible outcomes.
After 23rd July, when the outcome of the Tory Leadership election is known, UK politics is going to get very interesting indeed, were it not already interesting enough!"
Nice article @Cyclefree but I'm afraid the call to be reasonable comes far too late; decades too late.
It's rather like an interaction frequently seen between a man and a woman. The woman states her case quietly and reasonably; the man takes no notice. The woman tries again, quietly & reasonably; the man takes no notice. This goes on until the woman reaches screaming point. Then the man is terribly wounded and asks her: "Why can't you just say what you want, quietly and reasonably?"
The politicians have been ignoring the concerns about the EU held by a lot of people for too long. Sorry about that; genuinely sorry about that. I've been genuinely sorry about it for decades. It's not good for any of us.
Good morning, everyone.
Some politicians, including our soon to be Prime Minister, have been stoking the anti-EU sentiment for decade with lies and half truths about the EU. Thye're still doing it.
All politicians lie and misrepresent. They’re rarely so obviously caught. All of them.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
So do all your fellow fearmongers. Doesn't mean much to those of us who aren't afraid.
I'm not afraid - in fact I'm fully invested in what is likely to occur as, (like Rees Mogg) I expect to make a fortune from No Deal.
Could you please tell us how, so we may do likewise?
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
If you think house prices will remain high for ever more I think you are in for a surprise.
At some point house prices will have to return to levels that local wages can afford - granted a market can stay irrational for longer than someone to bet against it but that day will come.
So long as there's a shortage of housing all is well.
The only way to significantly reduce the cost of housing would be for a huge tax on owning homes to rent out as a landlord and ban non Uk citizens from buying Uk property.
Neither are happening anytime ever.
So the UK economy is screwed, permanently? I'm not convinced that there won't be restrictions on foreign buyers brought in too.
The politicians have been ignoring the concerns about the EU held by a lot of people for too long. Sorry about that; genuinely sorry about that. I've been genuinely sorry about it for decades. It's not good for any of us.
Some politicians, including our soon to be Prime Minister, have been stoking the anti-EU sentiment for decade with lies and half truths about the EU. Thye're still doing it.
Exactly.
Politicians have been dismissing concerns about Globalization, immigration, automation and technology as "the fault of the EU"
I think it’s wishful thinking that if the WA is passed and we leave the EU then Remainers will flock back to Labour and focus on domestic issues. The culture war has only just begun.
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
No. Some of them. Some sectors would disappear overnight. But many are phlegmatic and have seen much change in their farming lifetimes but yes, it is a can of whoop-ass opened that most would prefer to have stayed shut.
The EU Ref hustings I went to, which featured Douglas Carswell, also featured a farmer passionately in favour of leaving. His reason? Getting the EU subsidies involved a 30 page form!
Wonder what that idiot thinks now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to replicate the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
So do all your fellow fearmongers. Doesn't mean much to those of us who aren't afraid.
I'm not afraid - in fact I'm fully invested in what is likely to occur as, (like Rees Mogg) I expect to make a fortune from No Deal.
Could you please tell us how, so we may do likewise?
I am right in thinking No Deal absolutely screws (Leave supporting) farmers?
mut.
The EU Refs now.
Didn't Phil Hammond promise to ... the subsidies in full from his war chest? Of course, he'll soon be out on his ear, but presumably Boris also has that expenditure inked in.
Brexiters: A No Deal Brexit will let us reclaim £39bn we would have paid to the EU. Also Brexiters: We will spend significantly more than £26bn from our war chest if we no deal Brexit.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Leaves £13 bn left.in war chest.
The reality is that powerful sectors will get looked after because the government has no option. Think of Korea and the Chaebol. Farmers and manufacturers will get the deals they need as without the country will just fail. The losers will be the pensioners who voted Brexit as in the end they have no bargaining power.
They vote. That is all the bargaining power they need in a democracy.
I suspect with No Deal they are going to be in for a surprise like the 70's where inflation destroys their purchasing power....
Many current pensioners are sitting on sizeable capital gains from the housing inflation of those days. True enough that many who were pensioners in the 1970s did suffer as you describe.
If you think house prices will remain high for ever more I think you are in for a surprise.
At some point house prices will have to return to levels that local wages can afford - granted a market can stay irrational for longer than someone to bet against it but that day will come.
The market is neither rational nor irrational. That is pure anthropomorphism. Current monetary policy with ludicrously low interest rates and quantitative easing supports the high housing prices. UK interest rates will remain low for policy purposes after we leave, so I do not foresee a house price collapse. Only a fool would "think house prices will remain high for ever more".
And so many of the boomer generation, inexorably moving into retirement, are intending to spend down their property equity to fund their retirement. These properties (whether larger main homes or second or let properties) will pass into the hands of people who have to borrow to afford them, hence we are moving into a period of long term downward drag on prices
No, it makes me someone who respects democracy and the Leave vote.
Not a diehard Remainer who refuses to respect democracy and is determined to Stop Brexit
Vote Leave, Boris Johnson included, said No Deal wouldn’t happen, a No Deal Brexit doesn’t respect democracy.
The ballot paper just said leave or remain , it didnt say how, you can blame your chum Cameron for that
No. Cameron wasn't arguing for leave; he was arguing for remain. He did the legwork, got an agreement with the EU, and that was remain's position. There was no way he could have set out leave's position as well.
Leave, on the other hand, lied. They made contradictory promises that have proved impossible to reconcile, and hence we've ended up in the current position.
Hardcore leavers - and especially the Brexiteers - need to start taking some responsibility for this mess.
Cameron could have mandated a commission to specify what (realistic) model would be meant by "Leave". Just as John Howard did in 1997-1999.
You need to think that through, and what it would have meant. for instance, consider how Farage and the hardcore leavers would have reacted: they would have said it was a stitch-up, and used it as a weapon in their war.
It seems a sensible thing on the surface, but like many things, it was unworkable in practice.
The job was one for Brexiteers to do before the referendum. And they failed to do so, because they wanted to win.
It's time they grew up and accepted some responsibility.
My view is that whenever an election comes the Tories will be hammered.
So, if there is an election to come, it will be forced on Boris.
I can't argue with that Casino, but who do you see winning?
Labour, with a Confidence and Supply arrangement with the SNP and LibDems. I don't see the latter going anywhere near a 'proper' coalition for a while.
At least two major assumptions there - firstly that Labour wins more seats than the LibDems and secondly that The LibDems would be prepared to give their suppost to a Marxist Labour-led Government.
Lib Dems are going nowhere, small bunch of useless duffers. Anyone who thinks they are the answer needs locking up and the key thrown away.
Once upon a time, the SNP were a small group of bitter turnip throwers....
Times change. malcolm.
Now they are a large group of bitter turnip throwers. The SNP is just the EDL in tartan.
I've faced the EDL on the streets in an attempt to stop them intimidating people who look different to them. My local MP is now from the SNP (I moved). The idea of any equivalence between the two is more risible than even the most risible madness to emerge from Brexit.
Edit: Unless, of course, you were referring to the English Disco Lovers, in which case I withdraw my comment.
Thank you.
Last week a couple of PBers (who really should have known better) scoffed that the SNP were blood and soil nationalists and that we had a burning hatred for our nearest neighbours and friends. I put it down to ignorance rather than deliberate disinformation.
No, it makes me someone who respects democracy and the Leave vote.
Not a diehard Remainer who refuses to respect democracy and is determined to Stop Brexit
Vote Leave, Boris Johnson included, said No Deal wouldn’t happen, a No Deal Brexit doesn’t respect democracy.
The ballot paper just said leave or remain , it didnt say how, you can blame your chum Cameron for that
No. Cameron wasn't arguing for leave; he was arguing for remain. He did the legwork, got an agreement with the EU, and that was remain's position. There was no way he could have set out leave's position as well.
Leave, on the other hand, lied. They made contradictory promises that have proved impossible to reconcile, and hence we've ended up in the current position.
Hardcore leavers - and especially the Brexiteers - need to start taking some responsibility for this mess.
Cameron set up the choice. In 1999 in Australia the monarchist John Howard presided over a referendum on whether Australia should be a republic. Before the referendum he had republicans take part in a commission that determined what form of a republic Australia would take if it was voted through.
Impossible to read this and not conclude (as I have long concluded) that we will (eventually) do one of two things -
Either ratify the Withdrawal Agreement or cancel Brexit.
Right now, I have it as a 75/25 chance respectively.
I'd say it was the other way round.
We will only ratify the WA if the ERG and DUP accept it. And the ERG will have to eat a veritable banquet of their own words to do that. The DUP will never accept the backstop. And the BXP will continue to cry betrayal if anything short of no deal is pushed through. And will Labour MPs back a Boris deal when they did not back the same deal under May? Hard to see that happening - Labour's contempt for Boris is more visceral than their dislike of May. I just do not see how a HoC majority can be built for a deal.
It is probably in Labour's best interest as well as the Tories' to let the WA pass. Once Brexit is done it's salience as an issue will gradually decline, and with it the ratings of both the Brexit Party and the LibDems. It is these two insurgents which arecurrently crippling the main parties, both of which urgently need a return to two party politics. I expect a sufficient number of Labour 'rebels' will be given the quiet nod to vote with the government.
I think that is true today.
It may not be true in a couple of month's time though. Both the extreme ends of the debate are digging in, and the longer it drags on the harder it will be to dig them out of their trenches.
Impossible to read this and not conclude (as I have long concluded) that we will (eventually) do one of two things -
Either ratify the Withdrawal Agreement or cancel Brexit.
Right now, I have it as a 75/25 chance respectively.
I'd say it was the other way round.
We will only ratify the WA if the ERG and DUP accept it. And the ERG will have to eat a veritable banquet of their own words to do that. The DUP will never accept the backstop. And the BXP will continue to cry betrayal if anything short of no deal is pushed through. And will Labour MPs back a Boris deal when they did not back the same deal under May? Hard to see that happening - Labour's contempt for Boris is more visceral than their dislike of May. I just do not see how a HoC majority can be built for a deal.
It is probably in Labour's best interest as well as the Tories' to let the WA pass. Once Brexit is done it's salience as an issue will gradually decline, and with it the ratings of both the Brexit Party and the LibDems. It is these two insurgents which arecurrently crippling the main parties, both of which urgently need a return to two party politics. I expect a sufficient number of Labour 'rebels' will be given the quiet nod to vote with the government.
I think that is true today.
It may not be true in a couple of month's time though. Both the extreme ends of the debate are digging in, and the longer it drags on the harder it will be to dig them out of their trenches.
But the government collapsing remains Labour's best hope
And letting Brexit through, even by rebellion, risks a significant backlash for Labour in the south
Hunt has fallen more in my estimation than Boris has during the last two weeks albeit not to the level Boris is at.
Snap.
Hunt's shallow opportunism has shone like a beacon in the night.
Hunt has probably closed the gap to sub 60-40 if we go by the reasonably accurate yardstick of below the line sentiment being utterly wrong on this race thus far then.
Hunt has fallen more in my estimation than Boris has during the last two weeks albeit not to the level Boris is at.
Snap.
Hunt's shallow opportunism has shone like a beacon in the night.
Make sure you spoil your ballot paper.
Actually yesterday a friend and I were discussing the option of writing "Boris Johnson is a twat" on the ballot paper or, a la @TSE, drawing a cock and balls against his name but were mindful of the fact that that might be interpreted as a sign for him. So, Aesop like, my friend said to write "Boris Johnson is a twat" beside Jeremy Hunt's name.
And if you take the last 12 years, FTSE growth rate magically declines to just over 1% (although presumably the house price growth rate is mostly unaffected).
I am slightly surprised that the house price growth rate isn't higher, that said.
He is unrecognisable in that photo from a few months ago. I presume he must have been suffering from some terrible illness.
Big Mac denied he was ill and said he'd just lost weight to live longer, so his skin hung loose. The obituaries might clear things up. He'd also had a noticeable tremor for some time.
I can’t see how a general election can work well for the Conservatives at present, being torn apart by the wild horses of the Brexit party and the Lib Dems. But since every decision they’ve made recently has been the worst one possible for themselves, perhaps they will go for it anyway.
Define “recently”. When was the last time the Tories made a significant run of great decisions which were of clear benefit to both their own party and to the country?
If you define “country” as England I’d say the 1980s.
If you define “country” as the United Kingdom” I’d say the 1800s.
Hunt has fallen more in my estimation than Boris has during the last two weeks albeit not to the level Boris is at.
Snap.
Hunt's shallow opportunism has shone like a beacon in the night.
Hunt has always been a lightweight, first coming to attention by getting the BBC to postpone The Apprentice in case Lord Sugar subliminally made viewers vote Labour. That said, the only choice left is Hunt or Boris.
And if you take the last 12 years, FTSE growth rate magically declines to just over 1% (although presumably the house price growth rate is mostly unaffected).
I am slightly surprised that the house price growth rate isn't higher, that said.
I wasn't looking to cherry pick anything, just taking the numbers from a decade ago. If you want to supress house price growth, 07/08 change of year was the last local real term peak I think.
And if you take the last 12 years, FTSE growth rate magically declines to just over 1% (although presumably the house price growth rate is mostly unaffected).
I am slightly surprised that the house price growth rate isn't higher, that said.
And average wages - have they gone up 5.5%? Productivity as shown earlier today definitely hasn't...
Hunt has fallen more in my estimation than Boris has during the last two weeks albeit not to the level Boris is at.
Snap.
Hunt's shallow opportunism has shone like a beacon in the night.
Make sure you spoil your ballot paper.
Actually yesterday a friend and I were discussing the option of writing "Boris Johnson is a twat" on the ballot paper or, a la @TSE, drawing a cock and balls against his name but were mindful of the fact that that might be interpreted as a sign for him. So, Aesop like, my friend said to write "Boris Johnson is a twat" beside Jeremy Hunt's name.
Genius!
If you draw the balls nice and large it will be difficult for anyone to think that is a vote for Johnson...
Hunt has fallen more in my estimation than Boris has during the last two weeks albeit not to the level Boris is at.
Snap.
Hunt's shallow opportunism has shone like a beacon in the night.
Make sure you spoil your ballot paper.
Actually yesterday a friend and I were discussing the option of writing "Boris Johnson is a twat" on the ballot paper or, a la @TSE, drawing a cock and balls against his name but were mindful of the fact that that might be interpreted as a sign for him. So, Aesop like, my friend said to write "Boris Johnson is a twat" beside Jeremy Hunt's name.
Genius!
The words of an unnamed Cabinet Minister, as reported by Nick Watt on Newsnight, will be my choice - if nothing changes - for my ballot paper come the next election - “Fuck knows. I’m past caring. It’s like the living dead in here.”
Hunt has fallen more in my estimation than Boris has during the last two weeks albeit not to the level Boris is at.
Snap.
Hunt's shallow opportunism has shone like a beacon in the night.
Make sure you spoil your ballot paper.
Actually yesterday a friend and I were discussing the option of writing "Boris Johnson is a twat" on the ballot paper or, a la @TSE, drawing a cock and balls against his name but were mindful of the fact that that might be interpreted as a sign for him. So, Aesop like, my friend said to write "Boris Johnson is a twat" beside Jeremy Hunt's name.
Genius!
If you draw the balls nice and large it will be difficult for anyone to think that is a vote for Johnson...
Hunt the ... vs Boris the Johnson. Hat-tip whoever said it first.
And if you take the last 12 years, FTSE growth rate magically declines to just over 1% (although presumably the house price growth rate is mostly unaffected).
I am slightly surprised that the house price growth rate isn't higher, that said.
And average wages - have they gone up 5.5%? Productivity as shown earlier today definitely hasn't...
Sterling has gone down relative to other major currencies. Given plenty of the FTSE big boys earnings are in $ and €, that's the main booster for the stock market maybe.
And so many of the boomer generation, inexorably moving into retirement, are intending to spend down their property equity to fund their retirement. These properties (whether larger main homes or second or let properties) will pass into the hands of people who have to borrow to afford them, hence we are moving into a period of long term downward drag on prices
And if we ever get a government able to govern again more obstacles will be placed in the way of landlords (rent control, more security for tenants etc) and we might even start building more houses and both these factors would tend to push prices down.
'Bulls' are well-endowed men – married or single - looking for sex, while 'unicorns' are so-called because they are single women and so rare in the swinging scene that few people have ever seen one.
'It's not quite Upper Welland, is it?' said Marjorie Stapleton, 87, who lives less than a mile from the festival site.
And if you take the last 12 years, FTSE growth rate magically declines to just over 1% (although presumably the house price growth rate is mostly unaffected).
I am slightly surprised that the house price growth rate isn't higher, that said.
Though the raw FTSE doesn't include dividends, so need to look at total return, particularly over such a long period.
My equities are well distributed to insure against No Deal, and with a secure job and pension, I am very well secured. I suspect that the markets will oversell as usual in No Deal panic, so some value buys afterwards.
Not been focusing much on politics recently, so just catching up a bit.
I wonder if Jeremy Hunt has blown his chance of being PM with his idiotic, unthinking position on hunting in England. He clearly lacks the *instinct* a successful leader needs for steering clear of toxic, infected topics. Boris lacks this instinct too, but for Hunt his USP was that he was not a buffoon. Bye bye USP.
And if you take the last 12 years, FTSE growth rate magically declines to just over 1% (although presumably the house price growth rate is mostly unaffected).
I am slightly surprised that the house price growth rate isn't higher, that said.
And average wages - have they gone up 5.5%? Productivity as shown earlier today definitely hasn't...
Sterling has gone down relative to other major currencies. Given plenty of the FTSE big boys earnings are in $ and €, that's the main booster for the stock market maybe.
Certainly for FTSE, which otherwise has been relatively depressed. The US is driven by Trumpian expansionism that will likely end in tears.
In the medium term one wonders how much lower sterling can go, although no deal would push it down in the short term
No, it makes me someone who respects democracy and the Leave vote.
Not a diehard Remainer who refuses to respect democracy and is determined to Stop Brexit
Vote Leave, Boris Johnson included, said No Deal wouldn’t happen, a No Deal Brexit doesn’t respect democracy.
The ballot paper just said leave or remain , it didnt say how, you can blame your chum Cameron for that
No. Cameron wasn't arguing for leave; he was arguing for remain. He did the legwork, got an agreement with the EU, and that was remain's position. There was no way he could have set out leave's position as well.
Leave, on the other hand, lied. They made contradictory promises that have proved impossible to reconcile, and hence we've ended up in the current position.
Hardcore leavers - and especially the Brexiteers - need to start taking some responsibility for this mess.
Cameron could have mandated a commission to specify what (realistic) model would be meant by "Leave". Just as John Howard did in 1997-1999.
You need to think that through, and what it would have meant. for instance, consider how Farage and the hardcore leavers would have reacted: they would have said it was a stitch-up, and used it as a weapon in their war.
It seems a sensible thing on the surface, but like many things, it was unworkable in practice.
The job was one for Brexiteers to do before the referendum. And they failed to do so, because they wanted to win.
It's time they grew up and accepted some responsibility.
Farage and the hardcore leavers could have been invited to contribute to the commission before the referendum like happened in Australia.
As for the Brexiteers they did do the job. They made compromises. They said they wanted a Brexit that took control of our laws and trade, one that took control of borders and left the jurisdiction of the ECJ. A Canada style Brexit in other words. They acknowledged officially that meant leaving both the Single Market and the Customs Union.
Yes some Brexiteers like our own Mr Tyndall wanted EEA style Brexit and they have every right to campaign for that but the Brexiteer campaigns did their homework and came up with a model.
Yes that's what I meant - a 25% chance of Brexit being cancelled via another referendum.
Which as I read things requires the election of a Labour government. Can't see a realistic route to Ref2 which does not include that.
At the moment a second referendum doesn't seem very likely, though that could change pretty quickly if the Gauke/Hammond tendency decide to back it when Boris becomes PM.
The most likely outcome is continual postponements and extensions of A50, which eventually will become de facto remain.
And so many of the boomer generation, inexorably moving into retirement, are intending to spend down their property equity to fund their retirement. These properties (whether larger main homes or second or let properties) will pass into the hands of people who have to borrow to afford them, hence we are moving into a period of long term downward drag on prices
And if we ever get a government able to govern again more obstacles will be placed in the way of landlords (rent control, more security for tenants etc) and we might even start building more houses and both these factors would tend to push prices down.
Not by much as housebuilding is a low percentage of housing stock. While low interest rates may keep demand up for a bit longer, I think that the current building boom may quickly turn into a glut in the next year or two. London prices are falling and the ripples spread outwards from there.
I suspect that retirement spots on the coast might do well as the Costas become less easy.
Comments
https://www.channel4.com/news/hammond-warns-disorderly-no-deal-brexit-will-cost-uk-90bn
https://twitter.com/alexebarker/status/1147072358777270272
Sooner this RSole is gone from no 11 the better.
The Chicken Licken Remain doommongers have been wrong every stage so far.
At some point house prices will have to return to levels that local wages can afford - granted a market can stay irrational for longer than someone to bet against it but that day will come.
BTW deal means replication of CAP and CFP.
Addendum. Large scale farmers have a vested interest in depressed land values as it allows them to buy up smallholdings in the cheap.
Neither are happening anytime ever.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/17751268.boris-johnson-jeremy-hunt-host-darlington-hustings/
It seems Boris is treating it as a Panto - I suspect he wants to be the dame not the villain..
Congratulations to OGH and his lady wife for their Golden Anniversary!
And to any other PB’ers celebrating anniversaries.
It is also 31 years to the day since I got together with my other half. In Gorbachev’s Russia of all places. And my youngest (only just 21) has got a II(I) in his Politics / Economics degree. I could not be more proud of him. He wrote his dissertation on the rise of populism in Italy so if anyone is interested in how Matteo Salvini uses Facebook to spread his creed, Cyclefree Junior is your man.
https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1146707170546860033
Only a fool would "think house prices will remain high for ever more".
After 23rd July, when the outcome of the Tory Leadership election is known, UK politics is going to get very interesting indeed, were it not already interesting enough!"
https://jonworth.eu/a-pro-brexit-pact-or-a-remain-alliance-what-might-happen-in-a-general-election/
'An uninsured Lamborghini has been seized by police after the owner used it to pick up his other car - also confiscated for not being insured.'
Manchester area.
During that time businesses in other countries will get used to selling stuff in Britain and lobby their governments to preserve their access at the end of the three years. So that potentially gives you more openness to trade deals for the long term than you'd have got if you'd tried to negotiate with your markets closed, and you can also offer more generous terms once the tariff jubilee has ended as an enticement to encourage people to open up their markets before the three years are up.
It's rather like an interaction frequently seen between a man and a woman. The woman states her case quietly and reasonably; the man takes no notice. The woman tries again, quietly & reasonably; the man takes no notice. This goes on until the woman reaches screaming point. Then the man is terribly wounded and asks her: "Why can't you just say what you want, quietly and reasonably?"
The politicians have been ignoring the concerns about the EU held by a lot of people for too long. Sorry about that; genuinely sorry about that. I've been genuinely sorry about it for decades. It's not good for any of us.
Good morning, everyone.
Politicians have been dismissing concerns about Globalization, immigration, automation and technology as "the fault of the EU"
They are about to reap what was sown.
A bitter harvest.
https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/he-knew-his-audience-knew-what-they-wanted-and-knew-how-to-give-it-to-them/388289
It seems a sensible thing on the surface, but like many things, it was unworkable in practice.
The job was one for Brexiteers to do before the referendum. And they failed to do so, because they wanted to win.
It's time they grew up and accepted some responsibility.
Last week a couple of PBers (who really should have known better) scoffed that the SNP were blood and soil nationalists and that we had a burning hatred for our nearest neighbours and friends. I put it down to ignorance rather than deliberate disinformation.
It may not be true in a couple of month's time though. Both the extreme ends of the debate are digging in, and the longer it drags on the harder it will be to dig them out of their trenches.
June 09 House price £156442 ; June 19 £216515 = 3.3% annual growth (Nationwide figures)
FTSE 100 05-07-09 4438.60, today 7589 = 5.5% annual growth
Hunt's shallow opportunism has shone like a beacon in the night.
And letting Brexit through, even by rebellion, risks a significant backlash for Labour in the south
Actually yesterday a friend and I were discussing the option of writing "Boris Johnson is a twat" on the ballot paper or, a la @TSE, drawing a cock and balls against his name but were mindful of the fact that that might be interpreted as a sign for him. So, Aesop like, my friend said to write "Boris Johnson is a twat" beside Jeremy Hunt's name.
Genius!
I am slightly surprised that the house price growth rate isn't higher, that said.
Which as I read things requires the election of a Labour government. Can't see a realistic route to Ref2 which does not include that.
If you define “country” as England I’d say the 1980s.
If you define “country” as the United Kingdom” I’d say the 1800s.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7214339/Genteel-Worcester-village-arms-700-swingers-flock-field-sex-festival.html
'It's not quite Upper Welland, is it?' said Marjorie Stapleton, 87, who lives less than a mile from the festival site.
My equities are well distributed to insure against No Deal, and with a secure job and pension, I am very well secured. I suspect that the markets will oversell as usual in No Deal panic, so some value buys afterwards.
I wonder if Jeremy Hunt has blown his chance of being PM with his idiotic, unthinking position on hunting in England. He clearly lacks the *instinct* a successful leader needs for steering clear of toxic, infected topics. Boris lacks this instinct too, but for Hunt his USP was that he was not a buffoon. Bye bye USP.
In the medium term one wonders how much lower sterling can go, although no deal would push it down in the short term
As for the Brexiteers they did do the job. They made compromises. They said they wanted a Brexit that took control of our laws and trade, one that took control of borders and left the jurisdiction of the ECJ. A Canada style Brexit in other words. They acknowledged officially that meant leaving both the Single Market and the Customs Union.
Yes some Brexiteers like our own Mr Tyndall wanted EEA style Brexit and they have every right to campaign for that but the Brexiteer campaigns did their homework and came up with a model.
The most likely outcome is continual postponements and extensions of A50, which eventually will become de facto remain.
I suspect that retirement spots on the coast might do well as the Costas become less easy.