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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Robert Peston suggesting that the battle between Hunt and John

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  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,236
    viewcode said:


    I try not to go to personal insult, but for you I will make an exception. You really are very intellectually challenged!

    Ouch that really hurt. Or not.

    Either way though like Avengers we seem to be coming to the Endgame now. And while you diehard Remainers may be wannabe Thanos's wishing to write off half the population I think we shall find that those who believe in freedoms will win.

    (I've not actually seen Avengers Endgame so apologies if I totally mangled that).
    You did mangle it. Thanos wins in Infinity War but loses in Endgame.
    (Oh, spoilers, whatevs... :) )
    Plus the time-travel doesn't make sense in Endgame. You can't kill past Thanos in the second half and still have the present Thanos in the first part. How many tesseracts are there now Loki ran at with the New York one? When Cap went back to the past and went thru the next 70 years the long way round, did he just stand by and watch Banner get irradiated, Stark's parents get murdered, Bucky get brainwashed, and Hydra parasitise Shield? Aargh!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044

    TM did well today putting Corbyn back in his box

    For the first time in ages he was actually out of the box though, rather than mumbling something about bus timetables.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004

    Did Jezza just commit to a 2nd vote?

    Sounded like it
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Scott_P said:

    Jezza asks a decent question shock!

    And walks into his own trap.

    No deal will be disaster, and he voted for it 3 times
    Only by the same logic that says he voted to Remain 3 times.
    He opposed the deal - the ERG destroyed it.

    I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082

    TM did well today putting Corbyn back in his box

    She is demob happy. Nothing matters anymore, and it is liberating.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Scott_P said:

    it has led to no deal.

    Scott_P said:

    No deal will be disaster

    Scott_P has come unstuck in time.

  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    TM did well today putting Corbyn back in his box

    To be honest I thought Corbyn was lackluster today, in comparison May was feisty in her delivery. Maybe Corbyn needs to spend more time with his vegetables!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    eek said:

    Scott_P said:

    Jezza asks a decent question shock!

    And walks into his own trap.

    No deal will be disaster, and he voted for it 3 times
    Only by the same logic that says he voted to Remain 3 times.
    He opposed the deal - the ERG destroyed it.

    I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
    Most Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Scott_P said:
    His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004

    TM did well today putting Corbyn back in his box

    To be honest I thought Corbyn was lackluster today, in comparison May was feisty in her delivery. Maybe Corbyn needs to spend more time with his vegetables!
    Are you referring to his inner circle !!!!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eek said:

    Scott_P said:

    Jezza asks a decent question shock!

    And walks into his own trap.

    No deal will be disaster, and he voted for it 3 times
    Only by the same logic that says he voted to Remain 3 times.
    He opposed the deal - the ERG destroyed it.

    I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
    If the opposition wanted to prevent no deal it could have done so, despite the fact many in the Government's own party were prepared to take their chances with no deal.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Scott_P said:

    Jezza asks a decent question shock!

    And walks into his own trap.

    No deal will be disaster, and he voted for it 3 times
    Only by the same logic that says he voted to Remain 3 times.
    He opposed the deal - the ERG destroyed it.

    I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
    Most Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement
    Yeah but the most vociferous Leavers were the Tories who did not!
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Scott_P said:

    Jezza asks a decent question shock!

    And walks into his own trap.

    No deal will be disaster, and he voted for it 3 times
    Only by the same logic that says he voted to Remain 3 times.
    He opposed the deal - the ERG destroyed it.

    I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
    Most Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement
    But enough didn't that it lost 3 times - and that rests solely with the ERFG
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    TM did well today putting Corbyn back in his box

    To be honest I thought Corbyn was lackluster today, in comparison May was feisty in her delivery. Maybe Corbyn needs to spend more time with his vegetables!
    Are you referring to his inner circle !!!!
    You might say that but I could not possibly comment to quote Francis Urqhart!
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,547

    Scott_P said:
    His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
    And do what? Join the BXP?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Cons can't seem to be bothered to turn up to PMQs.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Scott_P said:

    Jezza asks a decent question shock!

    And walks into his own trap.

    No deal will be disaster, and he voted for it 3 times
    Only by the same logic that says he voted to Remain 3 times.
    He opposed the deal - the ERG destroyed it.

    I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
    Most Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement
    But enough didn't that it lost 3 times - and that rests solely with the ERFG
    Complete and total bollocks.

    Even if 100% of ERG members had voted for the Withdrawal Agreement and all other MPs voted the same way as they had, it would still have lost.

    However ERG members are OK with no deal and have said that. It is opposition MPs who shed crocodile tears about how dreadful no deal supposedly would be, yet voted against the deal.

    If you're OK with no deal then voting against the deal makes sense. If you're horrified by no deal, then voting against the deal does not.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,236

    Scott_P said:

    it has led to no deal.

    Scott_P said:

    No deal will be disaster

    Scott_P has come unstuck in time.

    I remember you saying that next week. I'll remind you again yesterday.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004

    Scott_P said:
    His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
    And do what? Join the BXP?
    Of course not but they could rebel the whip or more likely vote for a superficially amended deal with the EU
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Scott_P said:
    His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
    And do what? Join the BXP?
    +1 - I really don't think a second referendum is going to cost any Labour Leave MP more votes than they will gain from Lib Dem supporters tactically voting for the person most likely to win the seat..
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Of the three of those only one means a referendum, the other two are vacuuous phrases themselves. Is a General Election not a people's vote? Or are we allowing dogs and cyborgs to vote in a General Election?

    As for Final Say, what an absurd name to use as a synonym for referendum as the last 3 years have shown. Third reading in Parliament is the final say.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited July 2019
    eek said:

    Scott_P said:
    His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
    And do what? Join the BXP?
    +1 - I really don't think a second referendum is going to cost any Labour Leave MP more votes than they will gain from Lib Dem supporters tactically voting for the person most likely to win the seat..
    The 26 labour mps from leave areas, who recently wrote to object to a referendum, may well not agree with you
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,587

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Scott_P said:

    Jezza asks a decent question shock!

    And walks into his own trap.

    No deal will be disaster, and he voted for it 3 times
    Only by the same logic that says he voted to Remain 3 times.
    He opposed the deal - the ERG destroyed it.

    I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
    Most Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement
    But enough didn't that it lost 3 times - and that rests solely with the ERFG
    Complete and total bollocks.

    Even if 100% of ERG members had voted for the Withdrawal Agreement and all other MPs voted the same way as they had, it would still have lost.

    However ERG members are OK with no deal and have said that. It is opposition MPs who shed crocodile tears about how dreadful no deal supposedly would be, yet voted against the deal.

    If you're OK with no deal then voting against the deal makes sense. If you're horrified by no deal, then voting against the deal does not.
    If they had supported May, it is overwhelmingly likely that she would have managed to get her WA agreement through Parliament.
    It was the trench warfare of the headbangers, just as much as May's inept leadership, that doomed it.

    You're arguing not for the referendum result to be 'respected', but for some kind of divine right for hard line leavers to get their own way without any responsibility for compromise.

    Now that is bollocks.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    TM seems full of it today.

    Amazing how much relief she must be feeling in handing over this poisoned chalice
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,587
    YJB !
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    eek said:

    Scott_P said:
    His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
    And do what? Join the BXP?
    +1 - I really don't think a second referendum is going to cost any Labour Leave MP more votes than they will gain from Lib Dem supporters tactically voting for the person most likely to win the seat..
    The 26 labour mps from leave areas, who recently wrote to object to a referendum, may well not agree with you
    But 60% of labour MPs represent leave constituencies so let's say 148 out of the 247 Labour MPs.

    That means only 17% are concerned that a second referendum would impact their votes.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    TM seems full of it today......

    Others have said much the same, albeit perhaps in a different context .....

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,587

    eek said:

    Scott_P said:
    His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
    And do what? Join the BXP?
    +1 - I really don't think a second referendum is going to cost any Labour Leave MP more votes than they will gain from Lib Dem supporters tactically voting for the person most likely to win the seat..
    The 26 labour mps from leave areas, who recently wrote to object to a referendum, may well not agree with you
    They should have voted for May's deal; not much use complaining now.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Scott_P said:
    His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
    And do what? Join the BXP?
    +1 - I really don't think a second referendum is going to cost any Labour Leave MP more votes than they will gain from Lib Dem supporters tactically voting for the person most likely to win the seat..
    The 26 labour mps from leave areas, who recently wrote to object to a referendum, may well not agree with you
    They should have voted for May's deal; not much use complaining now.
    Indeed, plus ERG and we would be in a very different place
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Scott_P said:

    Jezza asks a decent question shock!

    And walks into his own trap.

    No deal will be disaster, and he voted for it 3 times
    Only by the same logic that says he voted to Remain 3 times.
    He opposed the deal - the ERG destroyed it.

    I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
    Most Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement
    But enough didn't that it lost 3 times - and that rests solely with the ERFG
    Complete and total bollocks.

    Even if 100% of ERG members had voted for the Withdrawal Agreement and all other MPs voted the same way as they had, it would still have lost.

    However ERG members are OK with no deal and have said that. It is opposition MPs who shed crocodile tears about how dreadful no deal supposedly would be, yet voted against the deal.

    If you're OK with no deal then voting against the deal makes sense. If you're horrified by no deal, then voting against the deal does not.
    If they had supported May, it is overwhelmingly likely that she would have managed to get her WA agreement through Parliament.
    It was the trench warfare of the headbangers, just as much as May's inept leadership, that doomed it.

    You're arguing not for the referendum result to be 'respected', but for some kind of divine right for hard line leavers to get their own way without any responsibility for compromise.

    Now that is bollocks.
    No I am not. The hard line leavers own way is to leave without a deal and it looks like there is a greater chance than probably any of us imagined that it could happen. It certainly isn't a million to one.

    What I'm arguing is that if those shedding crocodile tears now about no deal truly wanted to prevent no deal they could have done so, three times.

    Hardliners can't force through no deal on their own, but it may yet happen because supposed opponents of no deal keep rejecting a deal.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Scott_P said:
    His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
    And do what? Join the BXP?
    +1 - I really don't think a second referendum is going to cost any Labour Leave MP more votes than they will gain from Lib Dem supporters tactically voting for the person most likely to win the seat..
    The 26 labour mps from leave areas, who recently wrote to object to a referendum, may well not agree with you
    But 60% of labour MPs represent leave constituencies so let's say 148 out of the 247 Labour MPs.

    That means only 17% are concerned that a second referendum would impact their votes.
    I would be cautious in treating this lightly
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Who do we reckon will be Prime Minister when the UK is officially declared to have entered a recession on around 11th November?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,587
    Some interesting musings on Sanders' campaign:
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/451449-sanders-slips-in-polls-raising-doubts-about-campaign

    Providing he stays somewhere near 15%, he has no reason at all to drop out, even were he to give up hope of winning (and it's a bit early for that).
    It's entirely possible no candidate will have a majority of delegates come the convention, and I'm sure he's as much interested on what influence he might have on the Democratic platform as he is on winning.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Who do we reckon will be Prime Minister when the UK is officially declared to have entered a recession on around 11th November?

    Perhaps now is not a good time to accept the offer of the job of Chancellor of the Exchequer from the new PM.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,587
    Disturbing collapse from England.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044
    Lagarde will be a disaster at ECB says Telegraph writer - praising Super Mario.

    "It is no exaggeration to say that without his brilliance the eurozone would have lost at least a couple of members by now and might not have survived at all."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/07/03/putting-lagarde-charge-will-lead-eurozone-catastrophe/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Nigelb said:

    Disturbing collapse from England.

    Good job they bat deep....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044

    Who do we reckon will be Prime Minister when the UK is officially declared to have entered a recession on around 11th November?

    Not Boris.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Scott_P said:
    His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
    And do what? Join the BXP?
    +1 - I really don't think a second referendum is going to cost any Labour Leave MP more votes than they will gain from Lib Dem supporters tactically voting for the person most likely to win the seat..
    The 26 labour mps from leave areas, who recently wrote to object to a referendum, may well not agree with you
    But 60% of labour MPs represent leave constituencies so let's say 148 out of the 247 Labour MPs.

    That means only 17% are concerned that a second referendum would impact their votes.
    I would be cautious in treating this lightly
    Like the Tories, Labour don't really have any unambiguously good option. The question is whether pivoting to full-throated 2nd ref support would do more good than it would harm to their chances overall, and whether the MPs who are at risk at either end of the spectrum are manageable by the leadership.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,587

    Nigelb said:

    Disturbing collapse from England.

    Good job they bat deep....
    No expressions of positivity, please.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 3,630

    148grss said:

    I mean, if the UoE were somewhat like the USA or Germanies federal system, what would be the downside? Texans, Californians and Floridians all have their own unique identity, cultures and even legal frameworks, and can work together to be the USA and have clout across the globe. Sure, that means Cali has to listen to Nebraska, but for Nebraska it's a pretty good deal. The only reason people propose against an ever closer union is culture; well we're different and can't / shouldn't be closer and really if my vote and a Frenchies vote goes to the same place, what's the point?

    But a Stokie and a Liverpudlian could also make that argument of England; why does England exist? A Scot or Welshman could make that case (and do); why is there a Britain or UK (and why was there a British Empire)?

    I think a UoE in some form or other is inevitable, as is a united world (as long as civilisation doesn't collapse due to climate change or war with nukes).

    The foundation of democracy is the deme. A deme comes from shared history, culture and language.

    The problem with the EU is that it is a top down project rather than coming from the bottom up. Everyone does a good talk about solidarity but when it goes pear-shaped each nation is for themselves. The Germans are not willing for fiscal transfers to the Greeks. The East Europeans were not willing to share Germany's migrants.

    The US was much more culturally homogenous than Europe but even then it had a civil war.
    "Shared culture, history, language": cool, so the Scots, Welsh and Irish have a point when they say we shouldn't be in a union together, as they all have their own individual culture, history and language. Hell, does a Cornishman have the same language as a Londoner and do they have the same language as a Mancunian? Same culture, or history?

    Countries, states, multistate nations are all artificial constructs that can form despite disparity. In the modern era we should be able to transend these issues without bloodshed. Unlikely, I agree, but still preferable.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,766


    I try not to go to personal insult, but for you I will make an exception. You really are very intellectually challenged!

    Ouch that really hurt. Or not.

    Either way though like Avengers we seem to be coming to the Endgame now. And while you diehard Remainers may be wannabe Thanos's wishing to write off half the population I think we shall find that those who believe in freedoms will win.

    (I've not actually seen Avengers Endgame so apologies if I totally mangled that).
    If it helps, Thanos gets his way in Infinity War, initially wins, and does write off half the population.
    The moaning Avengers don't like this and get to undo it for a second shot at Thanos in Endgame.

    Analogy-wise, it might not be pointing in the best direction for you.
    I assumed that, which is why I said that the Remainers were Thanos . . .
    Yeah, I don't think that works. Thanos won in Infinity War.
    Indeed with the Infinity War being our ongoing membership of the EU which we still haven't been able to escape yet, with the Leave half of the population consistently written off by the Thanos-Remainers.

    When it comes to the Endgame hopefully Boris and the Avengers can save us. ;)
    Your daftest post since your casus belli one. Keep them coming.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,547

    Scott_P said:
    His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
    And do what? Join the BXP?
    Of course not but they could rebel the whip or more likely vote for a superficially amended deal with the EU
    I really don't think Labour MPs are going to be more likely to accept a deal from Boris than they were from May. Boris is anthema to Labour MPs, they hate him with a passion far deeper and more visceral than their dislike of May, and their party members hate him even more. Helping Boris out of the hole into which he has dug himself would be a career ending move for a Labour MP I think.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Scott_P said:
    His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
    And do what? Join the BXP?
    +1 - I really don't think a second referendum is going to cost any Labour Leave MP more votes than they will gain from Lib Dem supporters tactically voting for the person most likely to win the seat..
    The 26 labour mps from leave areas, who recently wrote to object to a referendum, may well not agree with you
    But 60% of labour MPs represent leave constituencies so let's say 148 out of the 247 Labour MPs.

    That means only 17% are concerned that a second referendum would impact their votes.
    I would be cautious in treating this lightly
    I don't but I know come this years general election my vote will transfer to Labour from Lib Dem..
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,766
    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    I mean, if the UoE were somewhat like the USA or Germanies federal system, what would be the downside? Texans, Californians and Floridians all have their own unique identity, cultures and even legal frameworks, and can work together to be the USA and have clout across the globe. Sure, that means Cali has to listen to Nebraska, but for Nebraska it's a pretty good deal. The only reason people propose against an ever closer union is culture; well we're different and can't / shouldn't be closer and really if my vote and a Frenchies vote goes to the same place, what's the point?

    But a Stokie and a Liverpudlian could also make that argument of England; why does England exist? A Scot or Welshman could make that case (and do); why is there a Britain or UK (and why was there a British Empire)?

    I think a UoE in some form or other is inevitable, as is a united world (as long as civilisation doesn't collapse due to climate change or war with nukes).

    The foundation of democracy is the deme. A deme comes from shared history, culture and language.

    The problem with the EU is that it is a top down project rather than coming from the bottom up. Everyone does a good talk about solidarity but when it goes pear-shaped each nation is for themselves. The Germans are not willing for fiscal transfers to the Greeks. The East Europeans were not willing to share Germany's migrants.

    The US was much more culturally homogenous than Europe but even then it had a civil war.
    "Shared culture, history, language": cool, so the Scots, Welsh and Irish have a point when they say we shouldn't be in a union together, as they all have their own individual culture, history and language. Hell, does a Cornishman have the same language as a Londoner and do they have the same language as a Mancunian? Same culture, or history?

    Countries, states, multistate nations are all artificial constructs that can form despite disparity. In the modern era we should be able to transend these issues without bloodshed. Unlikely, I agree, but still preferable.
    I think he means demos as the derivation of the word democracy, meaning the common people, combined with cracy, from the Greek Kratos meaning rule or power . Deme was a district. The rest of what he wrote was also nonsense, particularly what he said about the US being more culturally homogeneous. Hilarious.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,766
    Cyclefree said:
    Indeed, though I find it odd to find myself agreeing with El Duce for once
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094

    New Fred

  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    TM did well today putting Corbyn back in his box

    To be honest I thought Corbyn was lackluster today, in comparison May was feisty in her delivery. Maybe Corbyn needs to spend more time with his vegetables!
    They’re all on his front bench
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited July 2019
    5 post debate polls now in according to RCP - Averages:

    Biden 28
    Sanders 16
    Harris 14.6
    Warren 12.4
    Buttigieg 4.8
    O'Rourke 2.4
    Booker 2.4
    Castro 1.4
    Klobuchar 1.2
    Gabbard 1.0
    Yang 1.0
    Bennet 0.4
    Gillibrand 0.4
This discussion has been closed.