I try not to go to personal insult, but for you I will make an exception. You really are very intellectually challenged!
Ouch that really hurt. Or not.
Either way though like Avengers we seem to be coming to the Endgame now. And while you diehard Remainers may be wannabe Thanos's wishing to write off half the population I think we shall find that those who believe in freedoms will win.
(I've not actually seen Avengers Endgame so apologies if I totally mangled that).
You did mangle it. Thanos wins in Infinity War but loses in Endgame. (Oh, spoilers, whatevs... )
Plus the time-travel doesn't make sense in Endgame. You can't kill past Thanos in the second half and still have the present Thanos in the first part. How many tesseracts are there now Loki ran at with the New York one? When Cap went back to the past and went thru the next 70 years the long way round, did he just stand by and watch Banner get irradiated, Stark's parents get murdered, Bucky get brainwashed, and Hydra parasitise Shield? Aargh!
No deal will be disaster, and he voted for it 3 times
Only by the same logic that says he voted to Remain 3 times.
He opposed the deal - the ERG destroyed it.
I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
To be honest I thought Corbyn was lackluster today, in comparison May was feisty in her delivery. Maybe Corbyn needs to spend more time with his vegetables!
No deal will be disaster, and he voted for it 3 times
Only by the same logic that says he voted to Remain 3 times.
He opposed the deal - the ERG destroyed it.
I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
To be honest I thought Corbyn was lackluster today, in comparison May was feisty in her delivery. Maybe Corbyn needs to spend more time with his vegetables!
No deal will be disaster, and he voted for it 3 times
Only by the same logic that says he voted to Remain 3 times.
He opposed the deal - the ERG destroyed it.
I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
If the opposition wanted to prevent no deal it could have done so, despite the fact many in the Government's own party were prepared to take their chances with no deal.
No deal will be disaster, and he voted for it 3 times
Only by the same logic that says he voted to Remain 3 times.
He opposed the deal - the ERG destroyed it.
I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
Most Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement
Yeah but the most vociferous Leavers were the Tories who did not!
No deal will be disaster, and he voted for it 3 times
Only by the same logic that says he voted to Remain 3 times.
He opposed the deal - the ERG destroyed it.
I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
Most Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement
But enough didn't that it lost 3 times - and that rests solely with the ERFG
To be honest I thought Corbyn was lackluster today, in comparison May was feisty in her delivery. Maybe Corbyn needs to spend more time with his vegetables!
Are you referring to his inner circle !!!!
You might say that but I could not possibly comment to quote Francis Urqhart!
His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
No deal will be disaster, and he voted for it 3 times
Only by the same logic that says he voted to Remain 3 times.
He opposed the deal - the ERG destroyed it.
I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
Most Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement
But enough didn't that it lost 3 times - and that rests solely with the ERFG
Complete and total bollocks.
Even if 100% of ERG members had voted for the Withdrawal Agreement and all other MPs voted the same way as they had, it would still have lost.
However ERG members are OK with no deal and have said that. It is opposition MPs who shed crocodile tears about how dreadful no deal supposedly would be, yet voted against the deal.
If you're OK with no deal then voting against the deal makes sense. If you're horrified by no deal, then voting against the deal does not.
His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
And do what? Join the BXP?
Of course not but they could rebel the whip or more likely vote for a superficially amended deal with the EU
His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
And do what? Join the BXP?
+1 - I really don't think a second referendum is going to cost any Labour Leave MP more votes than they will gain from Lib Dem supporters tactically voting for the person most likely to win the seat..
Of the three of those only one means a referendum, the other two are vacuuous phrases themselves. Is a General Election not a people's vote? Or are we allowing dogs and cyborgs to vote in a General Election?
As for Final Say, what an absurd name to use as a synonym for referendum as the last 3 years have shown. Third reading in Parliament is the final say.
His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
And do what? Join the BXP?
+1 - I really don't think a second referendum is going to cost any Labour Leave MP more votes than they will gain from Lib Dem supporters tactically voting for the person most likely to win the seat..
The 26 labour mps from leave areas, who recently wrote to object to a referendum, may well not agree with you
No deal will be disaster, and he voted for it 3 times
Only by the same logic that says he voted to Remain 3 times.
He opposed the deal - the ERG destroyed it.
I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
Most Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement
But enough didn't that it lost 3 times - and that rests solely with the ERFG
Complete and total bollocks.
Even if 100% of ERG members had voted for the Withdrawal Agreement and all other MPs voted the same way as they had, it would still have lost.
However ERG members are OK with no deal and have said that. It is opposition MPs who shed crocodile tears about how dreadful no deal supposedly would be, yet voted against the deal.
If you're OK with no deal then voting against the deal makes sense. If you're horrified by no deal, then voting against the deal does not.
If they had supported May, it is overwhelmingly likely that she would have managed to get her WA agreement through Parliament. It was the trench warfare of the headbangers, just as much as May's inept leadership, that doomed it.
You're arguing not for the referendum result to be 'respected', but for some kind of divine right for hard line leavers to get their own way without any responsibility for compromise.
His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
And do what? Join the BXP?
+1 - I really don't think a second referendum is going to cost any Labour Leave MP more votes than they will gain from Lib Dem supporters tactically voting for the person most likely to win the seat..
The 26 labour mps from leave areas, who recently wrote to object to a referendum, may well not agree with you
But 60% of labour MPs represent leave constituencies so let's say 148 out of the 247 Labour MPs.
That means only 17% are concerned that a second referendum would impact their votes.
His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
And do what? Join the BXP?
+1 - I really don't think a second referendum is going to cost any Labour Leave MP more votes than they will gain from Lib Dem supporters tactically voting for the person most likely to win the seat..
The 26 labour mps from leave areas, who recently wrote to object to a referendum, may well not agree with you
They should have voted for May's deal; not much use complaining now.
His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
And do what? Join the BXP?
+1 - I really don't think a second referendum is going to cost any Labour Leave MP more votes than they will gain from Lib Dem supporters tactically voting for the person most likely to win the seat..
The 26 labour mps from leave areas, who recently wrote to object to a referendum, may well not agree with you
They should have voted for May's deal; not much use complaining now.
Indeed, plus ERG and we would be in a very different place
No deal will be disaster, and he voted for it 3 times
Only by the same logic that says he voted to Remain 3 times.
He opposed the deal - the ERG destroyed it.
I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
Most Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement
But enough didn't that it lost 3 times - and that rests solely with the ERFG
Complete and total bollocks.
Even if 100% of ERG members had voted for the Withdrawal Agreement and all other MPs voted the same way as they had, it would still have lost.
However ERG members are OK with no deal and have said that. It is opposition MPs who shed crocodile tears about how dreadful no deal supposedly would be, yet voted against the deal.
If you're OK with no deal then voting against the deal makes sense. If you're horrified by no deal, then voting against the deal does not.
If they had supported May, it is overwhelmingly likely that she would have managed to get her WA agreement through Parliament. It was the trench warfare of the headbangers, just as much as May's inept leadership, that doomed it.
You're arguing not for the referendum result to be 'respected', but for some kind of divine right for hard line leavers to get their own way without any responsibility for compromise.
Now that is bollocks.
No I am not. The hard line leavers own way is to leave without a deal and it looks like there is a greater chance than probably any of us imagined that it could happen. It certainly isn't a million to one.
What I'm arguing is that if those shedding crocodile tears now about no deal truly wanted to prevent no deal they could have done so, three times.
Hardliners can't force through no deal on their own, but it may yet happen because supposed opponents of no deal keep rejecting a deal.
His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
And do what? Join the BXP?
+1 - I really don't think a second referendum is going to cost any Labour Leave MP more votes than they will gain from Lib Dem supporters tactically voting for the person most likely to win the seat..
The 26 labour mps from leave areas, who recently wrote to object to a referendum, may well not agree with you
But 60% of labour MPs represent leave constituencies so let's say 148 out of the 247 Labour MPs.
That means only 17% are concerned that a second referendum would impact their votes.
Providing he stays somewhere near 15%, he has no reason at all to drop out, even were he to give up hope of winning (and it's a bit early for that). It's entirely possible no candidate will have a majority of delegates come the convention, and I'm sure he's as much interested on what influence he might have on the Democratic platform as he is on winning.
Lagarde will be a disaster at ECB says Telegraph writer - praising Super Mario.
"It is no exaggeration to say that without his brilliance the eurozone would have lost at least a couple of members by now and might not have survived at all."
His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
And do what? Join the BXP?
+1 - I really don't think a second referendum is going to cost any Labour Leave MP more votes than they will gain from Lib Dem supporters tactically voting for the person most likely to win the seat..
The 26 labour mps from leave areas, who recently wrote to object to a referendum, may well not agree with you
But 60% of labour MPs represent leave constituencies so let's say 148 out of the 247 Labour MPs.
That means only 17% are concerned that a second referendum would impact their votes.
I would be cautious in treating this lightly
Like the Tories, Labour don't really have any unambiguously good option. The question is whether pivoting to full-throated 2nd ref support would do more good than it would harm to their chances overall, and whether the MPs who are at risk at either end of the spectrum are manageable by the leadership.
I mean, if the UoE were somewhat like the USA or Germanies federal system, what would be the downside? Texans, Californians and Floridians all have their own unique identity, cultures and even legal frameworks, and can work together to be the USA and have clout across the globe. Sure, that means Cali has to listen to Nebraska, but for Nebraska it's a pretty good deal. The only reason people propose against an ever closer union is culture; well we're different and can't / shouldn't be closer and really if my vote and a Frenchies vote goes to the same place, what's the point?
But a Stokie and a Liverpudlian could also make that argument of England; why does England exist? A Scot or Welshman could make that case (and do); why is there a Britain or UK (and why was there a British Empire)?
I think a UoE in some form or other is inevitable, as is a united world (as long as civilisation doesn't collapse due to climate change or war with nukes).
The foundation of democracy is the deme. A deme comes from shared history, culture and language.
The problem with the EU is that it is a top down project rather than coming from the bottom up. Everyone does a good talk about solidarity but when it goes pear-shaped each nation is for themselves. The Germans are not willing for fiscal transfers to the Greeks. The East Europeans were not willing to share Germany's migrants.
The US was much more culturally homogenous than Europe but even then it had a civil war.
"Shared culture, history, language": cool, so the Scots, Welsh and Irish have a point when they say we shouldn't be in a union together, as they all have their own individual culture, history and language. Hell, does a Cornishman have the same language as a Londoner and do they have the same language as a Mancunian? Same culture, or history?
Countries, states, multistate nations are all artificial constructs that can form despite disparity. In the modern era we should be able to transend these issues without bloodshed. Unlikely, I agree, but still preferable.
I try not to go to personal insult, but for you I will make an exception. You really are very intellectually challenged!
Ouch that really hurt. Or not.
Either way though like Avengers we seem to be coming to the Endgame now. And while you diehard Remainers may be wannabe Thanos's wishing to write off half the population I think we shall find that those who believe in freedoms will win.
(I've not actually seen Avengers Endgame so apologies if I totally mangled that).
If it helps, Thanos gets his way in Infinity War, initially wins, and does write off half the population. The moaning Avengers don't like this and get to undo it for a second shot at Thanos in Endgame.
Analogy-wise, it might not be pointing in the best direction for you.
I assumed that, which is why I said that the Remainers were Thanos . . .
Yeah, I don't think that works. Thanos won in Infinity War.
Indeed with the Infinity War being our ongoing membership of the EU which we still haven't been able to escape yet, with the Leave half of the population consistently written off by the Thanos-Remainers.
When it comes to the Endgame hopefully Boris and the Avengers can save us.
Your daftest post since your casus belli one. Keep them coming.
His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
And do what? Join the BXP?
Of course not but they could rebel the whip or more likely vote for a superficially amended deal with the EU
I really don't think Labour MPs are going to be more likely to accept a deal from Boris than they were from May. Boris is anthema to Labour MPs, they hate him with a passion far deeper and more visceral than their dislike of May, and their party members hate him even more. Helping Boris out of the hole into which he has dug himself would be a career ending move for a Labour MP I think.
His London seats under attack from Lib Dems causing panic for the labour elite but acceptance of a referendum will see upwards of 30 of his leave voting mps revolt
And do what? Join the BXP?
+1 - I really don't think a second referendum is going to cost any Labour Leave MP more votes than they will gain from Lib Dem supporters tactically voting for the person most likely to win the seat..
The 26 labour mps from leave areas, who recently wrote to object to a referendum, may well not agree with you
But 60% of labour MPs represent leave constituencies so let's say 148 out of the 247 Labour MPs.
That means only 17% are concerned that a second referendum would impact their votes.
I would be cautious in treating this lightly
I don't but I know come this years general election my vote will transfer to Labour from Lib Dem..
I mean, if the UoE were somewhat like the USA or Germanies federal system, what would be the downside? Texans, Californians and Floridians all have their own unique identity, cultures and even legal frameworks, and can work together to be the USA and have clout across the globe. Sure, that means Cali has to listen to Nebraska, but for Nebraska it's a pretty good deal. The only reason people propose against an ever closer union is culture; well we're different and can't / shouldn't be closer and really if my vote and a Frenchies vote goes to the same place, what's the point?
But a Stokie and a Liverpudlian could also make that argument of England; why does England exist? A Scot or Welshman could make that case (and do); why is there a Britain or UK (and why was there a British Empire)?
I think a UoE in some form or other is inevitable, as is a united world (as long as civilisation doesn't collapse due to climate change or war with nukes).
The foundation of democracy is the deme. A deme comes from shared history, culture and language.
The problem with the EU is that it is a top down project rather than coming from the bottom up. Everyone does a good talk about solidarity but when it goes pear-shaped each nation is for themselves. The Germans are not willing for fiscal transfers to the Greeks. The East Europeans were not willing to share Germany's migrants.
The US was much more culturally homogenous than Europe but even then it had a civil war.
"Shared culture, history, language": cool, so the Scots, Welsh and Irish have a point when they say we shouldn't be in a union together, as they all have their own individual culture, history and language. Hell, does a Cornishman have the same language as a Londoner and do they have the same language as a Mancunian? Same culture, or history?
Countries, states, multistate nations are all artificial constructs that can form despite disparity. In the modern era we should be able to transend these issues without bloodshed. Unlikely, I agree, but still preferable.
I think he means demos as the derivation of the word democracy, meaning the common people, combined with cracy, from the Greek Kratos meaning rule or power . Deme was a district. The rest of what he wrote was also nonsense, particularly what he said about the US being more culturally homogeneous. Hilarious.
To be honest I thought Corbyn was lackluster today, in comparison May was feisty in her delivery. Maybe Corbyn needs to spend more time with his vegetables!
Comments
I'm really getting fed up with the idea leavers seem to have that it was and is the responsibility of the opposition to support the Government when even the Government's own party refuses to accept the deal...
Even if 100% of ERG members had voted for the Withdrawal Agreement and all other MPs voted the same way as they had, it would still have lost.
However ERG members are OK with no deal and have said that. It is opposition MPs who shed crocodile tears about how dreadful no deal supposedly would be, yet voted against the deal.
If you're OK with no deal then voting against the deal makes sense. If you're horrified by no deal, then voting against the deal does not.
As for Final Say, what an absurd name to use as a synonym for referendum as the last 3 years have shown. Third reading in Parliament is the final say.
It was the trench warfare of the headbangers, just as much as May's inept leadership, that doomed it.
You're arguing not for the referendum result to be 'respected', but for some kind of divine right for hard line leavers to get their own way without any responsibility for compromise.
Now that is bollocks.
Amazing how much relief she must be feeling in handing over this poisoned chalice
That means only 17% are concerned that a second referendum would impact their votes.
What I'm arguing is that if those shedding crocodile tears now about no deal truly wanted to prevent no deal they could have done so, three times.
Hardliners can't force through no deal on their own, but it may yet happen because supposed opponents of no deal keep rejecting a deal.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/451449-sanders-slips-in-polls-raising-doubts-about-campaign
Providing he stays somewhere near 15%, he has no reason at all to drop out, even were he to give up hope of winning (and it's a bit early for that).
It's entirely possible no candidate will have a majority of delegates come the convention, and I'm sure he's as much interested on what influence he might have on the Democratic platform as he is on winning.
"It is no exaggeration to say that without his brilliance the eurozone would have lost at least a couple of members by now and might not have survived at all."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/07/03/putting-lagarde-charge-will-lead-eurozone-catastrophe/
Countries, states, multistate nations are all artificial constructs that can form despite disparity. In the modern era we should be able to transend these issues without bloodshed. Unlikely, I agree, but still preferable.
New Fred
Biden 28
Sanders 16
Harris 14.6
Warren 12.4
Buttigieg 4.8
O'Rourke 2.4
Booker 2.4
Castro 1.4
Klobuchar 1.2
Gabbard 1.0
Yang 1.0
Bennet 0.4
Gillibrand 0.4