Slightly tongue in cheek (sorry). Nonetheless we all decided to have a referendum, and we have to all get ourselves out of the stupid mess. There has to be something you can call 'Brexit'..
Liar. No, we didn’t all decide to have a referendum. No one asked me for starters.
Only one person decided to have a referendum and he’s fucked off to his shepherd’s hut rather than sort out the mess he’d left behind.
Twat.
Ah the intellectuals amongst us have turned up.
Ok Mensa brain. Explain to me exactly by what mechanism we all decided to have a referendum.
Voted for a party that had it in its manifesto for a general election?
Notwithstanding the fantasies of PB Tories, a minority of the electorate voted Conservative in 2015.
Mr. Seal, point of order: any agreement between May and Barnier was subject to votes in the Commons and the European Parliament. Your analogy is flawed, because the comparison would be with a man who telephones his wife to check before buying.
I said he’d agreed to buy, not bought, the car.
Exactly. So now the agreement is off.
Either we leave without an agreement, or a new agreement must be reached.
Just following up on Mr Meek's comments about the economy. Visa / Markit do a spending survey. (Simply: it's Visa looking at the absolute value of transactions, and using that as a proxy for the strength of consumer spending. By-and-large, it's pretty accurate.)
March showed a -0.2% year-over-year change, April was -0.6% and May was -1.4%. Bear in mind that these are all nominal, not real, numbers, so the real deceleration is worse.
Now, you can (and would probably correct to) argue that the UK needs to rebalance. But the best way to do this is via growing exports, while holding consumer spending to a lower growth path.
The problem is that government's don't want the UK to rebalance - they want people spending more and more as it keeps them happy.
So while exports have dramatically increased from £520bn in 2015 to £634bn in 2018 the UK's consumption has also increased.
1. Those ONS statistics are for Balance of Trade. I don't think consumer spending numbers are available from the ONS on a monthly basis, although I could be wrong.
2. ONS statistics are never going to exactly match Visa/Markit surveys. For a start, ONS statistics tend to be revised for up to 18 months after a period has completed as more and more complete information in recieved.
3. Plus, Visa only sees Visa's spending. It doesn't see cash, Amex, or Bitcoin. Now, if the 25% it sees is representative of all consumer spending, terrific. But they wouldn't pretend to be the whole market.
Slightly tongue in cheek (sorry). Nonetheless we all decided to have a referendum, and we have to all get ourselves out of the stupid mess. There has to be something you can call 'Brexit'..
Liar. No, we didn’t all decide to have a referendum. No one asked me for starters.
Only one person decided to have a referendum and he’s fucked off to his shepherd’s hut rather than sort out the mess he’d left behind.
Twat.
Ah the intellectuals amongst us have turned up.
Ok Mensa brain. Explain to me exactly by what mechanism we all decided to have a referendum.
Voted for a party that had it in its manifesto for a general election?
Notwithstanding the fantasies of PB Tories, a minority of the electorate voted Conservative in 2015.
Mr. Seal, point of order: any agreement between May and Barnier was subject to votes in the Commons and the European Parliament. Your analogy is flawed, because the comparison would be with a man who telephones his wife to check before buying.
I said he’d agreed to buy, not bought, the car.
Exactly. So now the agreement is off.
Either we leave without an agreement, or a new agreement must be reached.
Yeah, and in the meantime we have to get the bus everywhere.
Slightly tongue in cheek (sorry). Nonetheless we all decided to have a referendum, and we have to all get ourselves out of the stupid mess. There has to be something you can call 'Brexit'..
Liar. No, we didn’t all decide to have a referendum. No one asked me for starters.
Only one person decided to have a referendum and he’s fucked off to his shepherd’s hut rather than sort out the mess he’d left behind.
Twat.
Ah the intellectuals amongst us have turned up.
Ok Mensa brain. Explain to me exactly by what mechanism we all decided to have a referendum.
Voted for a party that had it in its manifesto for a general election?
Notwithstanding the fantasies of PB Tories, a minority of the electorate voted Conservative in 2015.
Mr. Seal, point of order: any agreement between May and Barnier was subject to votes in the Commons and the European Parliament. Your analogy is flawed, because the comparison would be with a man who telephones his wife to check before buying.
I said he’d agreed to buy, not bought, the car.
Exactly. So now the agreement is off.
Either we leave without an agreement, or a new agreement must be reached.
Yeah, and in the meantime we have to get the bus everywhere.
Or we can walk, which is good for our health, cycle, get a different car, get an Uber or more. Plenty of choices we just need to make one and not stand around in the dealership any longer.
Slightly tongue in cheek (sorry). Nonetheless we all decided to have a referendum, and we have to all get ourselves out of the stupid mess. There has to be something you can call 'Brexit'..
Liar. No, we didn’t all decide to have a referendum. No one asked me for starters.
Only one person decided to have a referendum and he’s fucked off to his shepherd’s hut rather than sort out the mess he’d left behind.
Twat.
Ah the intellectuals amongst us have turned up.
Ok Mensa brain. Explain to me exactly by what mechanism we all decided to have a referendum.
Voted for a party that had it in its manifesto for a general election?
We all did?
We all at the time took part in the 2015 General Election, wheter by voting Tories, other or abstaining as we sought to do and the result was that we as a nation decided to have a referendum. The country could have chosen otherwise but that is what we collectively decided just as we collectively decided to leave in 2016.
I'm surprised an English sovereigntist and nationalist is still pushing that line.
Pushing what line? What is surprising?
That is the decision we democratically took, just a year after the Scots democratically took the decision to remain bound to UK-wide national elections despite knowing full well that this was the PM's pre-announced intention.
People were told that to keep EU membership they should vote No.
Afaicr Mr Thompson has in the past admitted that that tweet was a pretty dubious tactic and a hostage to fortune, however he seems in full 'Britain as a country' mode today. It's a hard habit to break, even for English nationalists it would appear.
Not "admitted" I have always ridiculed that garbage.
Britain is a country. I'd prefer it if it wasn't but it was YOUR [collective as Scots] choice to keep it so. Just as if we had voted Remain in 2016 then whatever changes came to the EU in 2017 we as Brits would have chosen to accept that.
You've persuaded me, the idea that 'if we had voted Remain in 2016 then whatever changes came to the EU in 2017 we as Brits would have chosen to accept that' is a killer point.
The EU no longer has to pay any attention to what our Parliament wants. It is the height of arrogance to suggest it should.
It’s like if you agree to buy a car, but then call home, whereupon your wife tells you you’re paying too much and she hates the colour. You put the phone down and explain that the deal has to change as a result. The salesman, quite rightly, points out that you should have sorted that out with your wife first - a deal is already agreed that’s in his best interest and he isn’t budging - plenty of people are queuing up to buy his cars and in fact he has analog of interest in the very one in question. Now you have nothing to drive because you sold your old car to him on the way in having been assured by all and sundry that getting a new one on advantageous terms would be the “easiest deal in history”.
So, come November, Britain will be standing outside the dealership in the pissing rain with the alternatives of buying a different car or getting drenched while walking to a destination unknown. We’ll call a few old mates in Australia and New Zealand for a lift but they’re busy with their new mates having moved out of the neighbourhood a few years ago. Uncle Sam says he’ll lend us the money for a cab but he needs a little favour .
The EU does have to pay attention to what our Parliament wants, if they want to avoid no deal. Which they claim to want to avoid.
We haven't bought the car yes and nothing is agreed. If the car dealer can't reach the wife's demands then we just walk out and leave without a deal and he loses his commission.
Mr. Recidivist, only possible if there's a majority in Parliament for either straight revocation or a second referendum. MPs have brilliantly contrived to have a majority against every option.
There is a false view that a no deal Brexit would remove the uncertainity that exists. From a business viewpoint this is not the case. It just makes life even more uncertain. All our trade agreements are up in the air and simple things such as visas to travel become complex.
It probably needs to get worse before it gets better. I am 50 / 50 on whether it gets better fast enough to save the union. The Brexit bonus if anything is starting to bear fruit up here. While England is being shunned Scotland is awash with Europeans. There is no doubt that the Europeans will do all they can to keep Scotland in the EU.
While England is being shunned Scotland is awash with Europeans.
A contender for shite comment of the day.
Take a look at the graph here on change in employment per region:
The only region in which employment has fallen during the last five years is Scotland.
Yours beats it by a country mile, you spout a load of sh*** that is completely different to what the poster said and think you are clever. Get a grip you halfwit he never mentioned employment or unemployment , your thick post just shows how bad the union is for Scotland , you arseholes keep all the jobs as well as our cash.
Slightly tongue in cheek (sorry). Nonetheless we all decided to have a referendum, and we have to all get ourselves out of the stupid mess. There has to be something you can call 'Brexit'..
Liar. No, we didn’t all decide to have a referendum. No one asked me for starters.
Only one person decided to have a referendum and he’s fucked off to his shepherd’s hut rather than sort out the mess he’d left behind.
Twat.
Ah the intellectuals amongst us have turned up.
Ok Mensa brain. Explain to me exactly by what mechanism we all decided to have a referendum.
Voted for a party that had it in its manifesto for a general election?
Notwithstanding the fantasies of PB Tories, a minority of the electorate voted Conservative in 2015.
Mr. Seal, point of order: any agreement between May and Barnier was subject to votes in the Commons and the European Parliament. Your analogy is flawed, because the comparison would be with a man who telephones his wife to check before buying.
I said he’d agreed to buy, not bought, the car.
I propose Nigel’s Law - there are no political analogies which are illuminating.
The EU no longer has to pay any attention to what our Parliament wants. It is the height of arrogance to suggest it should.
It’s like if you agree to buy a car, but then call home, whereupon your wife tells you you’re paying too much and she hates the colour. You put the phone down and explain that the deal has to change as a result. The salesman, quite rightly, points out that you should have sorted that out with your wife first - a deal is already agreed that’s in his best interest and he isn’t budging - plenty of people are queuing up to buy his cars and in fact he has analog of interest in the very one in question. Now you have nothing to drive because you sold your old car to him on the way in having been assured by all and sundry that getting a new one on advantageous terms would be the “easiest deal in history”.
So, come November, Britain will be standing outside the dealership in the pissing rain with the alternatives of buying a different car or getting drenched while walking to a destination unknown. We’ll call a few old mates in Australia and New Zealand for a lift but they’re busy with their new mates having moved out of the neighbourhood a few years ago. Uncle Sam says he’ll lend us the money for a cab but he needs a little favour .
The EU does have to pay attention to what our Parliament wants, if they want to avoid no deal. Which they claim to want to avoid.
We haven't bought the car yes and nothing is agreed. If the car dealer can't reach the wife's demands then we just walk out and leave without a deal and he loses his commission.
If he is desperate to keep his commission he shows no sign of it. Indeed, he has disbanded the sales team, is about to go on holiday, has switched off the lights, and is looking at his watch and going "tut, is that the time?" whilst looking meaningfully at you and pointing at the door.
There is a false view that a no deal Brexit would remove the uncertainity that exists. From a business viewpoint this is not the case. It just makes life even more uncertain. All our trade agreements are up in the air and simple things such as visas to travel become complex.
It probably needs to get worse before it gets better. I am 50 / 50 on whether it gets better fast enough to save the union. The Brexit bonus if anything is starting to bear fruit up here. While England is being shunned Scotland is awash with Europeans. There is no doubt that the Europeans will do all they can to keep Scotland in the EU.
While England is being shunned Scotland is awash with Europeans.
A contender for shite comment of the day.
Take a look at the graph here on change in employment per region:
The only region in which employment has fallen during the last five years is Scotland.
Yours beats it by a country mile, you spout a load of sh*** that is completely different to what the poster said and think you are clever. Get a grip you halfwit he never mentioned employment or unemployment , your thick post just shows how bad the union is for Scotland , you arseholes keep all the jobs as well as our cash.
Good to see you getting into the anniversary spirit, malcolm.
Slightly tongue in cheek (sorry). Nonetheless we all decided to have a referendum, and we have to all get ourselves out of the stupid mess. There has to be something you can call 'Brexit'..
Liar. No, we didn’t all decide to have a referendum. No one asked me for starters.
Only one person decided to have a referendum and he’s fucked off to his shepherd’s hut rather than sort out the mess he’d left behind.
Twat.
Ah the intellectuals amongst us have turned up.
Ok Mensa brain. Explain to me exactly by what mechanism we all decided to have a referendum.
Voted for a party that had it in its manifesto for a general election?
Notwithstanding the fantasies of PB Tories, a minority of the electorate voted Conservative in 2015.
Mr. Seal, point of order: any agreement between May and Barnier was subject to votes in the Commons and the European Parliament. Your analogy is flawed, because the comparison would be with a man who telephones his wife to check before buying.
I said he’d agreed to buy, not bought, the car.
Exactly. So now the agreement is off.
Either we leave without an agreement, or a new agreement must be reached.
Yeah, and in the meantime we have to get the bus everywhere.
Or we can walk, which is good for our health, cycle, get a different car, get an Uber or more. Plenty of choices we just need to make one and not stand around in the dealership any longer.
This analogy is already creaking and close to collapse, if it hasn’t already, but Uber doesn’t operate here, there are no other dealerships in our town (the one we used to use has moved to the other side of the county), the Tory cuts scrapped the bus service, and we’ve far far too much baggage to walk or cycle.
Just following up on Mr Meek's comments about the economy. Visa / Markit do a spending survey. (Simply: it's Visa looking at the absolute value of transactions, and using that as a proxy for the strength of consumer spending. By-and-large, it's pretty accurate.)
March showed a -0.2% year-over-year change, April was -0.6% and May was -1.4%. Bear in mind that these are all nominal, not real, numbers, so the real deceleration is worse.
Now, you can (and would probably correct to) argue that the UK needs to rebalance. But the best way to do this is via growing exports, while holding consumer spending to a lower growth path.
The problem is that government's don't want the UK to rebalance - they want people spending more and more as it keeps them happy.
So while exports have dramatically increased from £520bn in 2015 to £634bn in 2018 the UK's consumption has also increased.
1. Those ONS statistics are for Balance of Trade. I don't think consumer spending numbers are available from the ONS on a monthly basis, although I could be wrong.
2. ONS statistics are never going to exactly match Visa/Markit surveys. For a start, ONS statistics tend to be revised for up to 18 months after a period has completed as more and more complete information in recieved.
3. Plus, Visa only sees Visa's spending. It doesn't see cash, Amex, or Bitcoin. Now, if the 25% it sees is representative of all consumer spending, terrific. But they wouldn't pretend to be the whole market.
The EU no longer has to pay any attention to what our Parliament wants. It is the height of arrogance to suggest it should.
It’s like if you agree to buy a car, but then call home, whereupon your wife tells you you’re paying too much and she hates the colour. You put the phone down and explain that the deal has to change as a result. The salesman, quite rightly, points out that you should have sorted that out with your wife first - a deal is already agreed that’s in his best interest and he isn’t budging - plenty of people are queuing up to buy his cars and in fact he has analog of interest in the very one in question. Now you have nothing to drive because you sold your old car to him on the way in having been assured by all and sundry that getting a new one on advantageous terms would be the “easiest deal in history”.
So, come November, Britain will be standing outside the dealership in the pissing rain with the alternatives of buying a different car or getting drenched while walking to a destination unknown. We’ll call a few old mates in Australia and New Zealand for a lift but they’re busy with their new mates having moved out of the neighbourhood a few years ago. Uncle Sam says he’ll lend us the money for a cab but he needs a little favour .
The EU does have to pay attention to what our Parliament wants, if they want to avoid no deal. Which they claim to want to avoid.
We haven't bought the car yes and nothing is agreed. If the car dealer can't reach the wife's demands then we just walk out and leave without a deal and he loses his commission.
If he is desperate to keep his commission he shows no sign of it. Indeed, he has disbanded the sales team, is about to go on holiday, has switched off the lights, and is looking at his watch and going "tut, is that the time?" whilst looking meaningfully at you and pointing at the door.
Whilst on acid. In Space. Then stamping on the bits, going "die, commission die".
Mr. Recidivist, only possible if there's a majority in Parliament for either straight revocation or a second referendum. MPs have brilliantly contrived to have a majority against every option.
Having lost another bit of business over Brexit this week, I have come round to supporting no deal. We've spent so much money on leaving we may as well get a return on our investment. Let's get out. Have a think. And go back in with a more positive attitude as soon as it is practical to do so.
There is a false view that a no deal Brexit would remove the uncertainity that exists. From a business viewpoint this is not the case. It just makes life even more uncertain. All our trade agreements are up in the air and simple things such as visas to travel become complex.
It probably needs to get worse before it gets better. I am 50 / 50 on whether it gets better fast enough to save the union. The Brexit bonus if anything is starting to bear fruit up here. While England is being shunned Scotland is awash with Europeans. There is no doubt that the Europeans will do all they can to keep Scotland in the EU.
While England is being shunned Scotland is awash with Europeans.
A contender for shite comment of the day.
Take a look at the graph here on change in employment per region:
The only region in which employment has fallen during the last five years is Scotland.
Yours beats it by a country mile, you spout a load of sh*** that is completely different to what the poster said and think you are clever. Get a grip you halfwit he never mentioned employment or unemployment , your thick post just shows how bad the union is for Scotland , you arseholes keep all the jobs as well as our cash.
Good to see you getting into the anniversary spirit, malcolm.
Nigel there are some halfwits on here that just drive you to distraction. There was me in a great mood as well.
Who says that Boris can’t bring out the best in his colleagues ?
He brings out many things within people. The contents of their stomachs, a desire for alimony payments, a desire for child support, the ability to consult lawyers and the desire to contact security.
The EU no longer has to pay any attention to what our Parliament wants. It is the height of arrogance to suggest it should.
It’s like if you agree to buy a car, but then call home, whereupon your wife tells you you’re paying too much and she hates the colour. You put the phone down and explain that the deal has to change as a result. The salesman, quite rightly, points out that you should have sorted that out with your wife first - a deal is already agreed that’s in his best interest and he isn’t budging - plenty of people are queuing up to buy his cars and in fact he has analog of interest in the very one in question. Now you have nothing to drive because you sold your old car to him on the way in having been assured by all and sundry that getting a new one on advantageous terms would be the “easiest deal in history”.
So, come November, Britain will be standing outside the dealership in the pissing rain with the alternatives of buying a different car or getting drenched while walking to a destination unknown. We’ll call a few old mates in Australia and New Zealand for a lift but they’re busy with their new mates having moved out of the neighbourhood a few years ago. Uncle Sam says he’ll lend us the money for a cab but he needs a little favour .
The EU does have to pay attention to what our Parliament wants, if they want to avoid no deal. Which they claim to want to avoid.
We haven't bought the car yes and nothing is agreed. If the car dealer can't reach the wife's demands then we just walk out and leave without a deal and he loses his commission.
If he is desperate to keep his commission he shows no sign of it. Indeed, he has disbanded the sales team, is about to go on holiday, has switched off the lights, and is looking at his watch and going "tut, is that the time?" whilst looking meaningfully at you and pointing at the door.
Whilst on acid. In Space. Then stamping on the bits, going "die, commission die".
And the corollary to my proposed law - argument over political analogies is more bitter than that over the underlying issue.
Apparently, according to one of Jezza's right hand men, capitalism only sustains itself by forcing foreigners to buy products through imperialist control using military if necessary. This is done on behalf of Jewish bankers.
There is a false view that a no deal Brexit would remove the uncertainity that exists. From a business viewpoint this is not the case. It just makes life even more uncertain. All our trade agreements are up in the air and simple things such as visas to travel become complex.
It probably needs to get worse before it gets better. I am 50 / 50 on whether it gets better fast enough to save the union. The Brexit bonus if anything is starting to bear fruit up here. While England is being shunned Scotland is awash with Europeans. There is no doubt that the Europeans will do all they can to keep Scotland in the EU.
While England is being shunned Scotland is awash with Europeans.
A contender for shite comment of the day.
Take a look at the graph here on change in employment per region:
The only region in which employment has fallen during the last five years is Scotland.
Yours beats it by a country mile, you spout a load of sh*** that is completely different to what the poster said and think you are clever. Get a grip you halfwit he never mentioned employment or unemployment , your thick post just shows how bad the union is for Scotland , you arseholes keep all the jobs as well as our cash.
Good to see you getting into the anniversary spirit, malcolm.
Nigel there are some halfwits on here that just drive you to distraction. There was me in a great mood as well.
Mr. 67, it's less than a decade ago that the PM and Chancellor of the Exchequer were both Scottish, and Scotland has more devolution than Wales or England.
Scottish MPs also get to vote on English and Welsh tax rates, whilst Holyrood can fiddle with Scottish bands.
It's hardly the tyranny to end all tyrannies, what with democratic participation and advantageous, lopsided devolution.
It's also less than a decade ago that the Scots voted to remain in the UK.
Mr. 67, it's less than a decade ago that the PM and Chancellor of the Exchequer were both Scottish, and Scotland has more devolution than Wales or England.
Scottish MPs also get to vote on English and Welsh tax rates, whilst Holyrood can fiddle with Scottish bands.
It's hardly the tyranny to end all tyrannies, what with democratic participation and advantageous, lopsided devolution.
It's also less than a decade ago that the Scots voted to remain in the UK.
In 2006 52% of people polled thought a Scottish person should never be Prime Minister.
how about whoever becomes Tory leader goes for a General Election, with an election pact with the Brexit party? Brexit/Tory coalition with thumping majority. And God help us all.
Mr. Alistair, a concerning finding, due at least in part to Labour/Blair's complacent arrogance in assigning devolution to the bits of the country it thought would be perpetual fiefdoms for the reds, at the price of institutionalising political division.
how about whoever becomes Tory leader goes for a General Election, with an election pact with the Brexit party? Brexit/Tory coalition with thumping majority. And God help us all.
The Tories are struggling to stay in coalition with themselves...
Mr. 67, it's less than a decade ago that the PM and Chancellor of the Exchequer were both Scottish, and Scotland has more devolution than Wales or England.
Scottish MPs also get to vote on English and Welsh tax rates, whilst Holyrood can fiddle with Scottish bands.
It's hardly the tyranny to end all tyrannies, what with democratic participation and advantageous, lopsided devolution.
It's also less than a decade ago that the Scots voted to remain in the UK.
MD, the SNP never vote on matters that do not have an impact on Scotland. The other parties are just regional sockpuppets of the London parties and so do not count as voting for Scotland in any way shape or form. They vote as their masters command.
how about whoever becomes Tory leader goes for a General Election, with an election pact with the Brexit party? Brexit/Tory coalition with thumping majority. And God help us all.
So they get their majority but what happens next ?
I think things get very murky indeed if we try to second-guess the outcome of an election in an active four-party environment.
Very murky - and just incredibly fascinating. An election with 4 parties in the 18 to 25 range. How that ends up playing out as seats in our FPTP system. That will be a political geeks paradise. I so want to see that. Cmon Boris don't bottle it.
Hopefully the Scottish government will have a good refugee programme for those escaping from south of the border !
Scotland needs to escape the madness and gain quick re entry into the EU . It will have more say there than being stuck with Westminster .
You are bonkers
What’s bonkers about it. Just imagine how much business Scotland can see relocate from ERGistan!
The EU would fast track them in. It’s a shame London couldn’t become a City State , they can keep all their tax money and not have to subsidize Leave areas who do nothing but bitch and moan about London .
If Leavers don’t give a fig about the Union why should Remainers . I used to be a unionist and part of my Remain vote was because of that but it’s clear now that Scotland should leave and not have to put up with the failed state south of the border .
how about whoever becomes Tory leader goes for a General Election, with an election pact with the Brexit party? Brexit/Tory coalition with thumping majority. And God help us all.
Not going to happen. How will the seats be divided - will all existing Conservative seats be given a free run by TBP leaving TBP to challenge Stephen Timms and his hyper marginal 40,000 majority?
I think not - when the Alliance started carving up the seats, the Liberals only had a dozen or so and the SDP not much more so it was easy.
Would the TBP stand aside for anti-No Deal MPs? Seems improbable.
Wow. That could prove lethal. It essentially leaves Boris's entire Brexit strategy in tatters. If confronted with it in an interview how could Boris possibly wriggle out? He has to remain in the bunker till the vote is done.
However, I fear you're being optimistic about the potential for basic facts, reasoning, and reality to influence proceedings. They certainly played a vanishingly small role in the MPs' decision for the final two.
Hopefully the Scottish government will have a good refugee programme for those escaping from south of the border !
Scotland needs to escape the madness and gain quick re entry into the EU . It will have more say there than being stuck with Westminster .
You are bonkers
What’s bonkers about it. Just imagine how much business Scotland can see relocate from ERGistan!
The EU would fast track them in. It’s a shame London couldn’t become a City State , they can keep all their tax money and not have to subsidize Leave areas who do nothing but bitch and moan about London .
If Leavers don’t give a fig about the Union why should Remainers . I used to be a unionist and part of my Remain vote was because of that but it’s clear now that Scotland should leave and not have to put up with the failed state south of the border .
While in the real world the only region of the UK which has lower employment now than it did five years ago is Scotland:
how about whoever becomes Tory leader goes for a General Election, with an election pact with the Brexit party? Brexit/Tory coalition with thumping majority. And God help us all.
Not going to happen. How will the seats be divided - will all existing Conservative seats be given a free run by TBP leaving TBP to challenge Stephen Timms and his hyper marginal 40,000 majority?
I think not - when the Alliance started carving up the seats, the Liberals only had a dozen or so and the SDP not much more so it was easy.
Would the TBP stand aside for anti-No Deal MPs? Seems improbable.
Also you may find quite a number of Tory voters deserting them if they get into bed with Farage.
Hopefully the Scottish government will have a good refugee programme for those escaping from south of the border !
Scotland needs to escape the madness and gain quick re entry into the EU . It will have more say there than being stuck with Westminster .
You are bonkers
What’s bonkers about it. Just imagine how much business Scotland can see relocate from ERGistan!
The EU would fast track them in. It’s a shame London couldn’t become a City State , they can keep all their tax money and not have to subsidize Leave areas who do nothing but bitch and moan about London .
If Leavers don’t give a fig about the Union why should Remainers . I used to be a unionist and part of my Remain vote was because of that but it’s clear now that Scotland should leave and not have to put up with the failed state south of the border .
While in the real world the only region of the UK which has lower employment now than it did five years ago is Scotland:
Hopefully the Scottish government will have a good refugee programme for those escaping from south of the border !
Scotland needs to escape the madness and gain quick re entry into the EU . It will have more say there than being stuck with Westminster .
You are bonkers
What’s bonkers about it. Just imagine how much business Scotland can see relocate from ERGistan!
The EU would fast track them in. It’s a shame London couldn’t become a City State , they can keep all their tax money and not have to subsidize Leave areas who do nothing but bitch and moan about London .
If Leavers don’t give a fig about the Union why should Remainers . I used to be a unionist and part of my Remain vote was because of that but it’s clear now that Scotland should leave and not have to put up with the failed state south of the border .
If we are keen on sticking to economic reality, let’s be clear. On independence, Scotland will lose the £1.5k subsidy per head it currently gets from the U.K. and it will still be above average on gdp per head, so if it joins the EU it will become a net contributor - so no new subsidy regime from them. The net effect is that either Scottish taxes would have to rise dramatically (equivalent to doubling the income tax take) or spending fall dramatically (20-25%). If that’s what voters want then fine.
The EU no longer has to pay any attention to what our Parliament wants. It is the height of arrogance to suggest it should.
It’s like if you agree to buy a car, but then call home, whereupon your wife tells you you’re paying too much and she hates the colour. You put the phone down and explain that the deal has to change as a result. The salesman, quite rightly, points out that you should have sorted that out with your wife first - a deal is already agreed that’s in his best interest and he isn’t budging - plenty of people are queuing up to buy his cars and in fact he has analog of interest in the very one in question. Now you have nothing to drive because you sold your old car to him on the way in having been assured by all and sundry that getting a new one on advantageous terms would be the “easiest deal in history”.
So, come November, Britain will be standing outside the dealership in the pissing rain with the alternatives of buying a different car or getting drenched while walking to a destination unknown. We’ll call a few old mates in Australia and New Zealand for a lift but they’re busy with their new mates having moved out of the neighbourhood a few years ago. Uncle Sam says he’ll lend us the money for a cab but he needs a little favour .
The EU does have to pay attention to what our Parliament wants, if they want to avoid no deal. Which they claim to want to avoid.
We haven't bought the car yes and nothing is agreed. If the car dealer can't reach the wife's demands then we just walk out and leave without a deal and he loses his commission.
If he is desperate to keep his commission he shows no sign of it. Indeed, he has disbanded the sales team, is about to go on holiday, has switched off the lights, and is looking at his watch and going "tut, is that the time?" whilst looking meaningfully at you and pointing at the door.
Whilst on acid. In Space. Then stamping on the bits, going "die, commission die".
And the corollary to my proposed law - argument over political analogies is more bitter than that over the underlying issue.
Excellent point. Code it up, formulate it in an atractive sentence. Then we can argue over it bitterly...
Hopefully the Scottish government will have a good refugee programme for those escaping from south of the border !
Scotland needs to escape the madness and gain quick re entry into the EU . It will have more say there than being stuck with Westminster .
You are bonkers
What’s bonkers about it. Just imagine how much business Scotland can see relocate from ERGistan!
The EU would fast track them in. It’s a shame London couldn’t become a City State , they can keep all their tax money and not have to subsidize Leave areas who do nothing but bitch and moan about London .
If Leavers don’t give a fig about the Union why should Remainers . I used to be a unionist and part of my Remain vote was because of that but it’s clear now that Scotland should leave and not have to put up with the failed state south of the border .
While in the real world the only region of the UK which has lower employment now than it did five years ago is Scotland:
Wow. That could prove lethal. It essentially leaves Boris's entire Brexit strategy in tatters. If confronted with it in an interview how could Boris possibly wriggle out? He has to remain in the bunker till the vote is done.
He will bluster and waffle about "believing" and "having the will to get this done".
It is pathetic that the so-called natural party of government has been reduced to this level of fantasy and faith-based belief.
Hopefully the Scottish government will have a good refugee programme for those escaping from south of the border !
Scotland needs to escape the madness and gain quick re entry into the EU . It will have more say there than being stuck with Westminster .
You are bonkers
What’s bonkers about it. Just imagine how much business Scotland can see relocate from ERGistan!
The EU would fast track them in. It’s a shame London couldn’t become a City State , they can keep all their tax money and not have to subsidize Leave areas who do nothing but bitch and moan about London .
If Leavers don’t give a fig about the Union why should Remainers . I used to be a unionist and part of my Remain vote was because of that but it’s clear now that Scotland should leave and not have to put up with the failed state south of the border .
I see unlike the uncaring, cruel EU who lets members decide if they want to leave or not, Jezza (the other) will continue with the wise, compassionate policy of deciding what's good for Scotland.
how about whoever becomes Tory leader goes for a General Election, with an election pact with the Brexit party? Brexit/Tory coalition with thumping majority. And God help us all.
Not going to happen. How will the seats be divided - will all existing Conservative seats be given a free run by TBP leaving TBP to challenge Stephen Timms and his hyper marginal 40,000 majority?
I think not - when the Alliance started carving up the seats, the Liberals only had a dozen or so and the SDP not much more so it was easy.
Would the TBP stand aside for anti-No Deal MPs? Seems improbable.
And in Hackney South and Shoreditch we (the Liberals) wouldn’t stand aside for our useless ex Labour SDP MP Ron Brown (George’s brother).
Mr. Divvie, the Scots decided to stay in the UK in 2014. Shocked and appalled you don't want to respect the wishes of the Scottish people.
I'm glad that you're coming round to the idea of supranational legislatures deciding what's best for individual nations. Looking forward to you coming on board the EU project.
how about whoever becomes Tory leader goes for a General Election, with an election pact with the Brexit party? Brexit/Tory coalition with thumping majority. And God help us all.
It's hard to see what the Brexit Party get out of such a deal. They give up the status of outsiders and catch all the flak directed at the Tories. They give up the admittedly far fetched chance of winning outright - which might make them less attractive to some voters. And they only have to talk to the Lib Dems to find out that the Conservatives aren't really great coalition partners.
Having said that, being seen to be in the talks with the Tories and then ostentatiously walking out would be great PR for them.
That after pretending that Brexit was about the British people ruling themselves, some Conservatives' actual plans were to transfer power to somebody else. Or as I've put it before, "For some Leavers the problem was not that Britain was dominated by foreigners, the problem was that it was the wrong foreigners"
I see that the Boris night-time kerfuffle was actually reported by no fewer than three sets of neighbours, including people just passing by, who - from the uproar - thought someone was being murdered.
Damn these nosy neighbours and remoaners. It's all their fault.
I see that the Boris night-time kerfuffle was actually reported by no fewer than three sets of neighbours, including people just passing by, who - from the uproar - thought someone was being murdered.
Damn these nosy neighbours and remoaners. It's all their fault.
Shame the class war arseholes had to get involved though
I see that the Boris night-time kerfuffle was actually reported by no fewer than three sets of neighbours, including people just passing by, who - from the uproar - thought someone was being murdered.
Damn these nosy neighbours and remoaners. It's all their fault.
Boris seems to be covering something up. He forgets that it’s the cover up that does he damage.
Mr. Divvie, the Scots decided to stay in the UK in 2014. Shocked and appalled you don't want to respect the wishes of the Scottish people.
I'm glad that you're coming round to the idea of supranational legislatures deciding what's best for individual nations. Looking forward to you coming on board the EU project.
Except you don't accept staying part of the Uk.......
how about whoever becomes Tory leader goes for a General Election, with an election pact with the Brexit party? Brexit/Tory coalition with thumping majority. And God help us all.
So they get their majority but what happens next ?
What do they agree to do ?
Take us out of the EU with no deal. Stop immigration. Repeal equalities legislation. Repeal worker's rights protection. Refuse to do anything about climate change. Lower taxes for higher earners, reduce benefits. Privatise everything in sight. Screw our ability to get factual information. Screw the economy. Break up the Union. Enable more rightwing thuggery on our streets. Arrest and beat up peaceful protestors.
I see that the Boris night-time kerfuffle was actually reported by no fewer than three sets of neighbours, including people just passing by, who - from the uproar - thought someone was being murdered.
Damn these nosy neighbours and remoaners. It's all their fault.
Boris seems to be covering something up. He forgets that it’s the cover up that does he damage.
He has a partner who could sink his lifetime ambition. He probably has a batch of former partners who could do likewise.
the difference between the SDP/Liberal alliance and a Tory/Brexit Party alliance is that in the latter the people at the top are driven by personal amibition, not political principle, so will be driving this to get power. Plus those parties are top down and people would do what they are told from the centre. If Borix and Farage can see the prospect of years of complete power, they won't have any scruples about working together.
how about whoever becomes Tory leader goes for a General Election, with an election pact with the Brexit party? Brexit/Tory coalition with thumping majority. And God help us all.
It's hard to see what the Brexit Party get out of such a deal. They give up the status of outsiders and catch all the flak directed at the Tories. They give up the admittedly far fetched chance of winning outright - which might make them less attractive to some voters. And they only have to talk to the Lib Dems to find out that the Conservatives aren't really great coalition partners.
Having said that, being seen to be in the talks with the Tories and then ostentatiously walking out would be great PR for them.
This all depends on what we think Farage’s game is. If he simply wants to change the nature of the Tory party and make sure Brexit is done, then they just stand against Tory MPs and candidates who don’t agree with their extreme agenda. On the other hand, if he truly wants to break the mould of the UK’s political system, as he claims, or simply wants to punish the Tories for their perceived incompetence and duplicity these last few years, then he stands everywhere.
In the former case, it probably would benefit the BXP to strike a deal giving them a free run in certain key seats - for example some Labour held leave seats up north. But the advantage to the Tories in supping with the devil is a lot less clear; at the least it would accelerate the shift in their support base and hand a lot more disgusted Tunbridge Wells voters to the LibDems.
I think things get very murky indeed if we try to second-guess the outcome of an election in an active four-party environment.
Very murky - and just incredibly fascinating. An election with 4 parties in the 18 to 25 range. How that ends up playing out as seats in our FPTP system. That will be a political geeks paradise. I so want to see that. Cmon Boris don't bottle it.
Indeed and you can probably rip up Baxter and most other forecasting tools.
Take East Ham (please!). In 2017 Timms scraped home with 83% of the vote and the Conservatives got just shy of 13% so the Labour majority was 40,000 (as much as makes no difference).
In the 2019 EU elections, Labour got 51% in Newham, the LDs 14%, Brexit 12%, Greens 8% and Conservatives 6%.
Okay, the halving of the Conservative vote percentage is about the same as the national numbers. The swing from Labour to Liberal Democrat was 22.5% (not too shabby). On this morning's Survation number the national swing is 12.75% (still okay). TBP cones in with 12% but their number has eased back by about a quarter since the EU elections.
So I'd predict, were East Ham to vote today, Labour would get 60%, LDs 12%, Brexit 9%, Greens 8%, Conservatives 7%, others 4% leaving, on a 2017 turnout Timms with a majority of 27,000 so still pretty safe.
OK, I give up. This approach (attack the witness) has been used three times in the past few days. It's gone way beyond ad hominem, people aren't even bothering to check whether something is true or not, it's just attack the witness, every time. Is there a word for this phenomenon? I've though of "non-person", "discredited is not a synonym for wrong", or "play the man not the ball", but they don't capture the flavour of "the truth doesn't count, only the affiliation of the witness does". I was going for "only our tribe counts" but can anybody think of something more catchy?
Mr. Divvie, the Scots decided to stay in the UK in 2014. Shocked and appalled you don't want to respect the wishes of the Scottish people.
I'm glad that you're coming round to the idea of supranational legislatures deciding what's best for individual nations. Looking forward to you coming on board the EU project.
Except you don't accept staying part of the Uk.......
I know sarcasm's the lowest form of wit, but what does that make folk who don't recognise sarcasm?
how about whoever becomes Tory leader goes for a General Election, with an election pact with the Brexit party? Brexit/Tory coalition with thumping majority. And God help us all.
So they get their majority but what happens next ?
What do they agree to do ?
Take us out of the EU with no deal. Stop immigration. Repeal equalities legislation. Repeal worker's rights protection. Refuse to do anything about climate change. Lower taxes for higher earners, reduce benefits. Privatise everything in sight. Screw our ability to get factual information. Screw the economy. Break up the Union. Enable more rightwing thuggery on our streets. Arrest and beat up peaceful protestors.
OK, I give up. This approach (attack the witness) has been used three times in the past few days. It's gone way beyond ad hominem, people aren't even bothering to check whether something is true or not, it's just attack the witness, every time. Is there a word for this phenomenon? I've though of "non-person", "discredited is not a synonym for wrong", or "play the man not the ball", but they don't capture the flavour of "the truth doesn't count, only the affiliation of the witness does". I was going for "only our tribe counts" but can anybody think of something more catchy?
Carole is the Boy Who Cried Wolf.
She gets so hyperbolic it is difficult to determine whether what she has hit is gold or iron pyrite.
OK, I give up. This approach (attack the witness) has been used three times in the past few days. It's gone way beyond ad hominem, people aren't even bothering to check whether something is true or not, it's just attack the witness, every time. Is there a word for this phenomenon? I've though of "non-person", "discredited is not a synonym for wrong", or "play the man not the ball", but they don't capture the flavour of "the truth doesn't count, only the affiliation of the witness does". I was going for "only our tribe counts" but can anybody think of something more catchy?
Carole is the Boy Who Cried Wolf.
She gets so hyperbolic it is difficult to determine whether what she has hit is gold or iron pyrite.
You're doing it again. I point out that people attack the witness instead of examining the point, and you...attack the witness instead of examining the point.
I think things get very murky indeed if we try to second-guess the outcome of an election in an active four-party environment.
Very murky - and just incredibly fascinating. An election with 4 parties in the 18 to 25 range. How that ends up playing out as seats in our FPTP system. That will be a political geeks paradise. I so want to see that. Cmon Boris don't bottle it.
Modesty forbids me mentioning the novella by Sea Lion Press, the Fourth Lectern, which had FPTP buckling under such four-way pressure.
(There's a sequel, a full-length novel, where it goes five-way).
OK, I give up. This approach (attack the witness) has been used three times in the past few days. It's gone way beyond ad hominem, people aren't even bothering to check whether something is true or not, it's just attack the witness, every time. Is there a word for this phenomenon? I've though of "non-person", "discredited is not a synonym for wrong", or "play the man not the ball", but they don't capture the flavour of "the truth doesn't count, only the affiliation of the witness does". I was going for "only our tribe counts" but can anybody think of something more catchy?
Carole is the Boy Who Cried Wolf.
She gets so hyperbolic it is difficult to determine whether what she has hit is gold or iron pyrite.
You're doing it again. I point out that people attack the witness instead of examining the point, and you...attack the witness instead of examining the point.
You asked why Carole gets so much flak and the answer is track record. You wanted a catchy phrase, so i gave you one.
My judgement is entirely reserved ass to this story in particular.
OK, I give up. This approach (attack the witness) has been used three times in the past few days. It's gone way beyond ad hominem, people aren't even bothering to check whether something is true or not, it's just attack the witness, every time. Is there a word for this phenomenon? I've though of "non-person", "discredited is not a synonym for wrong", or "play the man not the ball", but they don't capture the flavour of "the truth doesn't count, only the affiliation of the witness does". I was going for "only our tribe counts" but can anybody think of something more catchy?
Carole is the Boy Who Cried Wolf.
She gets so hyperbolic it is difficult to determine whether what she has hit is gold or iron pyrite.
You're doing it again. I point out that people attack the witness instead of examining the point, and you...attack the witness instead of examining the point.
Shoot the messenger you mean. Carole Codswallop is a witness to nothing.
As for the ludicrous video she is touting, it is a onesided video where the egomaniac Bannon claims [emphasis on claims] to be more important than he is recognised for. Something categorically denied by Johnson. Now is Bannon a paragon of virtue or honesty? Or is he an egomaniacal self-publicising pathological liar who is not above making stuff up?
Comments
https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2019/06/france-post-race-analysis-2019.html
If anyone sometimes watches highlights, you may want to give this one a miss.
Either we leave without an agreement, or a new agreement must be reached.
Embedded video
https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1142783046103523332
Sophy Ridge couldn't find anyone in Edinburgh with a good word about Boris Johnson but there is one person prepared to campaign for him. Guess who..
I would note a couple of things:
1. Those ONS statistics are for Balance of Trade. I don't think consumer spending numbers are available from the ONS on a monthly basis, although I could be wrong.
2. ONS statistics are never going to exactly match Visa/Markit surveys. For a
start, ONS statistics tend to be revised for up to 18 months after a period has completed as more and more complete information in recieved.
3. Plus, Visa only sees Visa's spending. It doesn't see cash, Amex, or Bitcoin. Now, if the 25% it sees is representative of all consumer spending, terrific. But they wouldn't pretend to be the whole market.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1142814510866161664
https://twitter.com/PA/status/1142813285261164544
https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/retailindustry/datasets/retailsalesindexreferencetables
Looking at it there's 2.7% year on year growth in the value of spending which should correspond to the Visa data.
Even at volume level its a 2.3% year on year growth.
Though the growth has reduced - its still 5.2% value and 4.8% volume increase on the 3 month year on year.
Leonard is a clown , he does not have the ability to think for himself.
Apparently, according to one of Jezza's right hand men, capitalism only sustains itself by forcing foreigners to buy products through imperialist control using military if necessary. This is done on behalf of Jewish bankers.
Scotland needs to escape the madness and gain quick re entry into the EU . It will have more say there than being stuck with Westminster .
Scottish MPs also get to vote on English and Welsh tax rates, whilst Holyrood can fiddle with Scottish bands.
It's hardly the tyranny to end all tyrannies, what with democratic participation and advantageous, lopsided devolution.
It's also less than a decade ago that the Scots voted to remain in the UK.
That is rocking good news!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/politics_show/4757329.stm
What do they agree to do ?
The EU would fast track them in. It’s a shame London couldn’t become a City State , they can keep all their tax money and not have to subsidize Leave areas who do nothing but bitch and moan about London .
If Leavers don’t give a fig about the Union why should Remainers . I used to be a unionist and part of my Remain vote was because of that but it’s clear now that Scotland should leave and not have to put up with the failed state south of the border .
I think not - when the Alliance started carving up the seats, the Liberals only had a dozen or so and the SDP not much more so it was easy.
Would the TBP stand aside for anti-No Deal MPs? Seems improbable.
However, I fear you're being optimistic about the potential for basic facts, reasoning, and reality to influence proceedings. They certainly played a vanishingly small role in the MPs' decision for the final two.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48664613
https://twitter.com/studentactivism/status/1141883520027152386
Read the whole thread for maximum effect.
https://xkcd.com/927/
It is pathetic that the so-called natural party of government has been reduced to this level of fantasy and faith-based belief.
https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1142827640514142208
https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/1142810725838204928
Having said that, being seen to be in the talks with the Tories and then ostentatiously walking out would be great PR for them.
https://twitter.com/canokar/status/1142834052480872448
Damn these nosy neighbours and remoaners. It's all their fault.
Dear fucking god
Makes Adonis seem grounded.
And so on and so on.
In the former case, it probably would benefit the BXP to strike a deal giving them a free run in certain key seats - for example some Labour held leave seats up north. But the advantage to the Tories in supping with the devil is a lot less clear; at the least it would accelerate the shift in their support base and hand a lot more disgusted Tunbridge Wells voters to the LibDems.
Boris was (is?) being advised by alt-right ethno-nationalist Steve Bannon, whose Breitbart “news agency” help pump propaganda to support Brexit.
Nope. Nothing to see here. Move on, people.
Take East Ham (please!). In 2017 Timms scraped home with 83% of the vote and the Conservatives got just shy of 13% so the Labour majority was 40,000 (as much as makes no difference).
In the 2019 EU elections, Labour got 51% in Newham, the LDs 14%, Brexit 12%, Greens 8% and Conservatives 6%.
Okay, the halving of the Conservative vote percentage is about the same as the national numbers. The swing from Labour to Liberal Democrat was 22.5% (not too shabby). On this morning's Survation number the national swing is 12.75% (still okay). TBP cones in with 12% but their number has eased back by about a quarter since the EU elections.
So I'd predict, were East Ham to vote today, Labour would get 60%, LDs 12%, Brexit 9%, Greens 8%, Conservatives 7%, others 4% leaving, on a 2017 turnout Timms with a majority of 27,000 so still pretty safe.
The candidate for the main opposition party, Ekrem Imamoglu, has won 54% of the vote with nearly all ballots counted.
Best of five???
She gets so hyperbolic it is difficult to determine whether what she has hit is gold or iron pyrite.
(There's a sequel, a full-length novel, where it goes five-way).
My judgement is entirely reserved ass to this story in particular.
As for the ludicrous video she is touting, it is a onesided video where the egomaniac Bannon claims [emphasis on claims] to be more important than he is recognised for. Something categorically denied by Johnson. Now is Bannon a paragon of virtue or honesty? Or is he an egomaniacal self-publicising pathological liar who is not above making stuff up?
Are we supposed to take Bannon's word for it?