The "grandees" who were asking for a coronation seem to have stirred up something of a hornets nest.
While a few of the less intelligent Scottish Tories- Thomson, Clark,- have backed Johnson, Ruth Davidson is going to have a real headache if he won. haky.
A Boris lead in the opinion polls would go the way of the Ullapool-Inverness ferry.
Ty
There is a ridiculous level of focus on hypothetical match-ups.
Davidson's worry isn't about the first poll under the new leader. It's about the risk that the new leader says months. And there's one candidate who is MUCH more likely to do that than the others.
No it is a fact that Boris gets the Tories to a higher voteshare in Scotland than any other Tory leadership candidate.
I know it does not fit diehard Remainers whinges about how Boris is less popular than Edward IInd in Scotland but tough those are the facts.
The average 2017 Scottish Tory was not some young urban pro independence social liberal but actually a pensioner living in a rural area or market town and a social conservative and very likely a Leave voter and many of them are now voting Brexit Party.
So Boris boosts the Tories vote in Scotlsnd just as he does in the rest of the UK
How can it be a "fact" when it hasn't been tested, and never will, at least in this universe?
We know the Tories were 4th in the European Parliament elections in Scotland behind the SNP, the Brexit Party and the LDs so a generic Tory will not do, Boris is the Tories' best hope in Scotland (though Rory Stewart polls better in Scotland than in England but still does not get as high a Scottish Tory voteshare as Boris does)
The conclusion is your opinion, not a fact at all.
No it is a fact based on the polling and the rise of the Brexit Party in Scotland, just you dislike the facts
Your comment exemplifies the problem with so many of your posts on here. There is no such thing as a "fact based on polling".
Polling is merely an indication, subject to lots of caveats and a significant degree of error. Polling about leaders who aren't even in post is even more flaky, and can never be proven right or wrong since we will never get to compare different leaders' performances in the same election. How a leader performs in office can be very different from what people may be expecting, even if they have heard of the person to begin with.
You’d think the 10% threshold should be reached. Two recalls in a calendar year would suggest this might become a thing.
Given the precedent of their refusal to accept the referendum result, if The Brexit Party ever won a seat I’d expect 10% of the constituents to instantly demand a recall every time
Given the antics of UKIP MEPs there is likely to be plenty of scope for recall petitions.
There would be a lot of recall petitions on very spurious grounds if any Brexit Party MPs were elected. We might even discover that by elections are only ‘advisory’
You do realise petitions can only be raised in specific circumstances - prison sentences, expenses fraud and getting barred from the HoC - are you taking it as a given that Brexit party mps will do all those things (and "be made scapegoats of by the establishment?")
You’d think the 10% threshold should be reached. Two recalls in a calendar year would suggest this might become a thing.
Given the precedent of their refusal to accept the referendum result, if The Brexit Party ever won a seat I’d expect 10% of the constituents to instantly demand a recall every time
That sort of silliness is why you need a trigger event to get a recall in the form of conviction or suspension etc.
You’d think the 10% threshold should be reached. Two recalls in a calendar year would suggest this might become a thing.
Given the precedent of their refusal to accept the referendum result, if The Brexit Party ever won a seat I’d expect 10% of the constituents to instantly demand a recall every time
Given the antics of UKIP MEPs there is likely to be plenty of scope for recall petitions.
There would be a lot of recall petitions on very spurious grounds if any Brexit Party MPs were elected. We might even discover that by elections are only ‘advisory’
You do not understand how recall petitions are triggered.
That's depressing. But he has less time so there'll be less faffing about.
It’s the right thing to do surely? May just didn’t have the charisma to sell a deal or the cojones to leave on no deal if MPs refused to consent to us leaving with a deal
Its depressing because it's too late to work and I bet he knows that, that's why it's all nonsense and the plan is to have a GE.
Trump skewering Khan on violence again and Khan still has no fucking clue. Honestly if the lib Dems put up a candidate that isn't Chuka I'll vote for them. I'll never vote for the racist, Bailey.
Homicide is sharply down in London this year. But don’t let facts get in your way.
London not even in top 50 of murder cities, US have four, maybe he should look closer to home.
Even the US is not that murderous.
OTOH, the murder rates in Latin America and the Caribbean are horrendous.
St Louis 4th 65/100,000 then also Baltimore, New Orleans and Detroit feature.
Re televised debates. If I were a politician from a rival party, I’d be a bit put out that the Conservatives are getting three hours of prime time exposure for free. It must give whoever becomes leader an edge if there were an election this year.
Doesn't that sort of assume that they cover themselves in glory during the debate? I would have thought that it could have the exact opposite effect . Isn't that precisely why Johnson is doing his level best to avoid being questioned or scrutinised?
Trump skewering Khan on violence again and Khan still has no fucking clue. Honestly if the lib Dems put up a candidate that isn't Chuka I'll vote for them. I'll never vote for the racist, Bailey.
Yes, it's terrific - rather touching even - that the American President, with all that he has on his plate, is so concerned about the crime rate in our capital city. Demonstrates remarkable bandwidth.
Re televised debates. If I were a politician from a rival party, I’d be a bit put out that the Conservatives are getting three hours of prime time exposure for free. It must give whoever becomes leader an edge if there were an election this year.
Ed Davey has already made a formal complaint
When is the televised debate for the Lib Dem leadership?
Well quite... Why is the state funded media wasting money promoting the UK's fourth party, when it could be dealing with the real issues being debated by the second party...?
You might be right - the Indy story Mike linked isn't clear but looking at the Guardian's report, it suggests he could have claimed the items under either the "start up" office budget (which he had all used) or the normal routine office costs budget. I'd think that framed photos for the wall were more "start up" than ongoing costs, but if the Guardian is right that they could be considered routine office costs, then he did have that option.
If he had been sensible he could have asked for two invoices in the first place. But it sounds like his expenses were in a horrendous mess and he had already had his IPSA card suspended until he sorted it out.
Is there an IPSA card? Wasn't one in my day. He clearly got into a tangle and thought he could sort it out without proper reflection and/or advice. I'm not sure it's a hanging offence - I don't think I'd sign the recall petition myself. It'd be tempting as a way of maybe reducing the Government majority, but one shouldn't pick on individuals in order to achieve some wider objective.
Conviction of a crime in office makes it simple for me. Not that having had a conviction in the past should prevent someone from being elected, but in office is different. And we already make it automatic if given 12 months.
Trump skewering Khan on violence again and Khan still has no fucking clue. Honestly if the lib Dems put up a candidate that isn't Chuka I'll vote for them. I'll never vote for the racist, Bailey.
Homicide is sharply down in London this year. But don’t let facts get in your way.
London not even in top 50 of murder cities, US have four, maybe he should look closer to home.
Even the US is not that murderous.
OTOH, the murder rates in Latin America and the Caribbean are horrendous.
St Louis 4th 65/100,000 then also Baltimore, New Orleans and Detroit feature.
I reckon she started with no deal as an option, but changed tack when she was fully briefed on the implications, both economic and specifically political (for the union). You could see the change in her attitude during the spring. If the ST is right she is now voting for Rory and may join the anti-no-dealers in Parliament.
I doubt that she will rebel against the new PM’s line
You’d think the 10% threshold should be reached. Two recalls in a calendar year would suggest this might become a thing.
Given the precedent of their refusal to accept the referendum result, if The Brexit Party ever won a seat I’d expect 10% of the constituents to instantly demand a recall every time
Given the antics of UKIP MEPs there is likely to be plenty of scope for recall petitions.
There would be a lot of recall petitions on very spurious grounds if any Brexit Party MPs were elected. We might even discover that by elections are only ‘advisory’
Re televised debates. If I were a politician from a rival party, I’d be a bit put out that the Conservatives are getting three hours of prime time exposure for free. It must give whoever becomes leader an edge if there were an election this year.
Ed Davey has already made a formal complaint
When is the televised debate for the Lib Dem leadership?
Well quite... Why is the state funded media wasting money promoting the UK's fourth party, when it could be dealing with the real issues being debated by the second party...?
Re televised debates. If I were a politician from a rival party, I’d be a bit put out that the Conservatives are getting three hours of prime time exposure for free. It must give whoever becomes leader an edge if there were an election this year.
Ed Davey has already made a formal complaint
When is the televised debate for the Lib Dem leadership?
Well quite... Why is the state funded media wasting money promoting the UK's fourth party, when it could be dealing with the real issues being debated by the second party...?
Well it would be a little difficult to make it out as a battle to the death and boring to show a political party united on the main issues.
You might be right - the Indy story Mike linked isn't clear but looking at the Guardian's report, it suggests he could have claimed the items under either the "start up" office budget (which he had all used) or the normal routine office costs budget. I'd think that framed photos for the wall were more "start up" than ongoing costs, but if the Guardian is right that they could be considered routine office costs, then he did have that option.
If he had been sensible he could have asked for two invoices in the first place. But it sounds like his expenses were in a horrendous mess and he had already had his IPSA card suspended until he sorted it out.
Is there an IPSA card? Wasn't one in my day. He clearly got into a tangle and thought he could sort it out without proper reflection and/or advice. I'm not sure it's a hanging offence - I don't think I'd sign the recall petition myself. It'd be tempting as a way of maybe reducing the Government majority, but one shouldn't pick on individuals in order to achieve some wider objective.
Doesn't that sort of assume that they cover themselves in glory during the debate? I would have thought that it could have the exact opposite effect. Isn't that precisely why Johnson is doing his level best to avoid being questioned or scrutinised?
I am not a fan of Johnson, but it is a general rule of politics that the frontrunner never wants a televised debate (see Blair or Cameron in their time).
If you are the frontrunner, why risk a debate?
However, Johnson would probably do just fine in a televised debate. He is pretty fluent and glib and used to TV cameras, which is mainly what is needed.
A forensic interview would be another matter -- but no politician normally allows themselves to be placed in such a vulnerable spot.
The "grandees" who were asking for a coronation seem to have stirred up something of a hornets nest.
While a few of the less intelligent Scottish Tories- Thomson, Clark,- have backed Johnson, Ruth Davidson is going to have a real headache if he won. haky.
A Boris lead in the opinion polls would go the way of the Ullapool-Inverness ferry.
Ty
There is a ridiculous level of focus on hypothetical match-ups.
Davidson's worry isn't about the first poll under the new leader. It's about the risk that the new leader says months. And there's one candidate who is MUCH more likely to do that than the others.
No it is a fact that Boris gets the Tories to a higher voteshare in Scotland than any other Tory leadership candidate.
I know it does not fit diehard Remainers whinges about how Boris is less popular than Edward IInd in Scotland but tough those are the facts.
The average 2017 Scottish Tory was not some young urban pro independence social liberal but actually a pensioner living in a rural area or market town and a social conservative and very likely a Leave voter and many of them are now voting Brexit Party.
So Boris boosts the Tories vote in Scotlsnd just as he does in the rest of the UK
How can it be a "fact" when it hasn't been tested, and never will, at least in this universe?
We know the Tories were 4th in the European Parliament elections in Scotland behind the SNP, the Brexit Party and the LDs so a generic Tory will not do, Boris is the Tories' best hope in Scotland (though Rory Stewart polls better in Scotland than in England but still does not get as high a Scottish Tory voteshare as Boris does)
The conclusion is your opinion, not a fact at all.
No it is a fact based on the polling and the rise of the Brexit Party in Scotland, just you dislike the facts
How a leader performs in office can be very different from what people may be expecting, even if they have heard of the person to begin with.
Indeed, he gives no credence to the idea views on people can change.
The "grandees" who were asking for a coronation seem to have stirred up something of a hornets nest.
While a few of the less intelligent Scottish Tories- Thomson, Clark,- have backed Johnson, Ruth Davidson is going to have a real headache if he won. haky.
A Boris lead in the opinion polls would go the way of the Ullapool-Inverness ferry.
Ty
There is a ridiculous level of focus on hypothetical match-ups.
Davidson's worry isn't about the s.
No it is a fact that Boris gets the Tories to a higher voteshare in Scotland than any other Tory leadership candidate.
I know it does not fit diehard Remainers whinges about how Boris is less popular than Edward IInd in Scotland but tough those are the facts.
The average 2017 Scottish Tory was not some young urban pro independence social liberal but actually a pensioner living in a rural area or market town and a social conservative and very likely a Leave voter and many of them are now voting Brexit Party.
So Boris boosts the Tories vote in Scotlsnd just as he does in the rest of the UK
How can it be a "fact" when it hasn't been tested, and never will, at least in this universe?
We know the Tories were 4th in the European Parliament elections in Scotland behind the SNP, the Brexit Party and the LDs so a generic Tory will not do, Boris is is does)
The conclusion is your opinion, not a fact at all.
No it is a fact based on the polling and the rise of the Brexit Party in Scotland, just you dislike the facts
Your comment exemplifies the problem with so many of your posts on here. There is no such thing as a "fact based on polling".
Polling is merely an indication, subject to lots of caveats and a significant degree of error. Polling about leaders who aren't even in post is even more flaky, and can never be proven right or wrong since we will never get to compare different leaders' performances in the same election. How a leader performs in office can be very different from what people may be expecting, even if they have heard of the person to begin with.
What it does show though is that the argument of some on here that the Tories face guaranteed disaster in Scotland under Boris is complete rubbish and I will continue to make that point
Doesn't that sort of assume that they cover themselves in glory during the debate? I would have thought that it could have the exact opposite effect. Isn't that precisely why Johnson is doing his level best to avoid being questioned or scrutinised?
I am not a fan of Johnston, but it is a general rule of politics that the frontrunner never wants a televised debate (see Blair or Cameron in their time).
If you are the frontrunner, why risk a debate?
Johnston would probably do just fine in a televised debate. He is pretty fluent and glib and used to TV cameras, which is mainly what is needed.
A forensic interview would be another matter -- but no politician normally allows themselves to be placed in such a vulnerable spot.
I think we both know it's a bit more than that in Johnson's case.
Doesn't that sort of assume that they cover themselves in glory during the debate? I would have thought that it could have the exact opposite effect. Isn't that precisely why Johnson is doing his level best to avoid being questioned or scrutinised?
I am not a fan of Johnston, but it is a general rule of politics that the frontrunner never wants a televised debate (see Blair or Cameron in their time).
If you are the frontrunner, why risk a debate?
Johnston would probably do just fine in a televised debate. He is pretty fluent and glib and used to TV cameras, which is mainly what is needed.
A forensic interview would be another matter -- but no politician normally allows themselves to be placed in such a vulnerable spot.
Agreed, I dont see that Boris should be too worried. If any get too heavy on him he can play the ' we should attack Corbyn not each other card'. Hes not a bad performer, most of them have vague plans like his, and because he is better liked he can take hits the others cannot.
Trump skewering Khan on violence again and Khan still has no fucking clue. Honestly if the lib Dems put up a candidate that isn't Chuka I'll vote for them. I'll never vote for the racist, Bailey.
Homicide is sharply down in London this year. But don’t let facts get in your way.
Really? There’s a lot of press attention on it so assumed it was up (presumably they are slicing and dicing [sick] to focus on teenage knife killings or something]
I reckon she started with no deal as an option, but changed tack when she was fully briefed on the implications, both economic and specifically political (for the union). You could see the change in her attitude during the spring. If the ST is right she is now voting for Rory and may join the anti-no-dealers in Parliament.
I doubt that she will rebel against the new PM’s line
The story is in today's MoS (not the ST) and begins with the line "Mrs May has suggested..." she may join Hammond and Rudd in voting to block no deal. When and where she made the suggestion isn't mentioned.
Probably to the ERG to convince them to back her deal...
LibDems have actively been campaigning in B&R to secure the recall (as per Mike's pic), so I'd hope and expect it'll succeed.
In theory the 10% threshold should be a breeze for the yellow peril wafting through the historic liberal diaspora of that huge bucolic seat. However it's a normal trait of the LibDems to trail impending success and I don't believe we've heard much from the entrails of this campaign.
Are the LibDems struggling to get the voters to engage?
Sure fire win for the LDs though if there is a bi.
So fraud is a lesser offence than speeding in your eyes.
He submitted a false invoice so he could claim £220 extra expenses. He had legitimate expenses of £700 but only £480 left in the budget. So created a receipt of £450 for that, then another one of £250 so he could claim the rest elsewhere. For this he was fined £1500 and ordered to do 50 hours community work. That seems about fair.
It was incredibly stupid and very wrong, but is rather different from breaking the law for no obvious reason, giving false evidence in a criminal matter and repeatedly lying about and racially abusing a judge.
Both come down to the standards of honesty and integrity we should expect from those who set the rules for the rest of us, though.
Do we think someone caught doing the same with their company expenses would keep their job?
Company expenses would surely show flexibility in such a case? That is, you would submit the receipt, and then the company would decide how much and from where to reimburse you.
Let me ask you another question. Should David Laws have been recalled and lost his seat over his expenses claims? Because the offences were basically very similar - manipulation of documents to hide the true nature of the claim. If your answer is no, are double standards applying?
(I know he lost his seat anyway.)
Not if you are writing your own receipts, you would be sacked. May be ok if you submitted and said original receipt was lost.
Doesn't that sort of assume that they cover themselves in glory during the debate? I would have thought that it could have the exact opposite effect. Isn't that precisely why Johnson is doing his level best to avoid being questioned or scrutinised?
I am not a fan of Johnston, but it is a general rule of politics that the frontrunner never wants a televised debate (see Blair or Cameron in their time).
If you are the frontrunner, why risk a debate?
Johnston would probably do just fine in a televised debate. He is pretty fluent and glib and used to TV cameras, which is mainly what is needed.
A forensic interview would be another matter -- but no politician normally allows themselves to be placed in such a vulnerable spot.
I think we both know it's a bit more than that in Johnson's case.
There is a risk of a gaffe -- sure. That is why he doesn't want a debate.
But, e.g., I think in terms of articulating an argument, or defending a position, he is better than the awkwardness and inarticulacy of May.
I suspect if there is a debate between Johnson, Corbyn and (say) Davey -- Johnson would probably win.
Mr. HYUFD, Citizens Assemblies sound like a steaming pile of horse manure, lacking the electoral mandate of a referendum *and* the delegated responsibility of a Parliament.
You might be right - the Indy story Mike linked isn't clear but looking at the Guardian's report, it suggests he could have claimed the items under either the "start up" office budget (which he had all used) or the normal routine office costs budget. I'd think that framed photos for the wall were more "start up" than ongoing costs, but if the Guardian is right that they could be considered routine office costs, then he did have that option.
If he had been sensible he could have asked for two invoices in the first place. But it sounds like his expenses were in a horrendous mess and he had already had his IPSA card suspended until he sorted it out.
Is there an IPSA card? Wasn't one in my day. He clearly got into a tangle and thought he could sort it out without proper reflection and/or advice. I'm not sure it's a hanging offence - I don't think I'd sign the recall petition myself. It'd be tempting as a way of maybe reducing the Government majority, but one shouldn't pick on individuals in order to achieve some wider objective.
You might be right - the Indy story Mike linked isn't clear but looking at the Guardian's report, it suggests he could have claimed the items under either the "start up" office budget (which he had all used) or the normal routine office costs budget. I'd think that framed photos for the wall were more "start up" than ongoing costs, but if the Guardian is right that they could be considered routine office costs, then he did have that option.
If he had been sensible he could have asked for two invoices in the first place. But it sounds like his expenses were in a horrendous mess and he had already had his IPSA card suspended until he sorted it out.
Is there an IPSA card? Wasn't one in my day. He clearly got into a tangle and thought he could sort it out without proper reflection and/or advice. I'm not sure it's a hanging offence - I don't think I'd sign the recall petition myself. It'd be tempting as a way of maybe reducing the Government majority, but one shouldn't pick on individuals in order to achieve some wider objective.
If not a hanging offence, it is clearly wrong.
Voters without expense accounts will surely feel that if the Sainsbury's checkout overcharges on tomato soup, they would speak to customer services, not shoplift a can of tuna to even things out.
Voters with expense accounts can check their own employer's policy and probably this would be a sacking offence in any reasonably large organisation.
I'd agree the IPSA system is not fit for purpose, but perhaps a human could have guided him to a satisfactory resolution.
Mr. HYUFD, compare how many know who Boris is to how many know who Rory is. That recognition has an effect. Boris might still be ahead, even if Rory were better known, but we don't know either way.
I think Stewart is the only candidate who could challenge Boris for appeal in Scotland yes and indeed Rory already polls better in Scotland than in England.
What is clear however is Hunt does terribly in Scotland, the Foreign Secretary leading the Tories to just 19%, even Gove and Raab do better in Scotland than Hunt does (albeit the former helped by his Scottish roots)
You’d think the 10% threshold should be reached. Two recalls in a calendar year would suggest this might become a thing.
Given the precedent of their refusal to accept the referendum result, if The Brexit Party ever won a seat I’d expect 10% of the constituents to instantly demand a recall every time
Given the antics of UKIP MEPs there is likely to be plenty of scope for recall petitions.
There would be a lot of recall petitions on very spurious grounds if any Brexit Party MPs were elected. We might even discover that by elections are only ‘advisory’
Rory has lined himself up as the ultimate 'I told you so' candidate for when Boris fails to deliver Brexit.
Rory is only prepared to deliver Brexit with May's Deal, Boris will deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal that is the difference between them
I doubt this very much. Boris is a strategising chameleon, not an ideologue. The current phase of strategy simply requires him to say that he so very, passionately believes in Brexit with a deal or without a deal, that's all.
John Pienaar interviewing Home Office minister Victoria Atkins backing Javid.
Pienaar "Sajid has made a lot of being the son of a Pakistani bus driver. Would his father be able to get into this country under this Conservative government?"
Atkins "Well there are channels where people can come in"
Pienaar "What exactly are the channels for a Pakistani bus driver?"
Mr. HYUFD, compare how many know who Boris is to how many know who Rory is. That recognition has an effect. Boris might still be ahead, even if Rory were better known, but we don't know either way.
I think Stewart is the only candidate who could challenge Boris for appeal in Scotland yes and indeed Rory already polls better in Scotland than in England.
What is clear however is Hunt does terribly in Scotland, the Foreign Secretary leading the Tories to just 19%, even Gove and Raab do better in Scotland than Hunt does (albeit the former helped by his Scottish roots)
Scots are racist?
No but they like their own e.g. Brown won a landslide in Scotland in 2010 despite losing power nationally
Trump skewering Khan on violence again and Khan still has no fucking clue. Honestly if the lib Dems put up a candidate that isn't Chuka I'll vote for them. I'll never vote for the racist, Bailey.
Homicide is sharply down in London this year. But don’t let facts get in your way.
Really? There’s a lot of press attention on it so assumed it was up (presumably they are slicing and dicing [sick] to focus on teenage knife killings or something]
Mr. HYUFD, Citizens Assemblies sound like a steaming pile of horse manure, lacking the electoral mandate of a referendum *and* the delegated responsibility of a Parliament.
Yes they seem to be Rory's biggest new idea, other than that he is largely continuity May policy and Brexit wise, hence why May voted for him last week
You’d think the 10% threshold should be reached. Two recalls in a calendar year would suggest this might become a thing.
Given the precedent of their refusal to accept the referendum result, if The Brexit Party ever won a seat I’d expect 10% of the constituents to instantly demand a recall every time
Given the antics of UKIP MEPs there is likely to be plenty of scope for recall petitions.
There would be a lot of recall petitions on very spurious grounds if any Brexit Party MPs were elected. We might even discover that by elections are only ‘advisory’
You do not understand how recall petitions are triggered.
You’d think the 10% threshold should be reached. Two recalls in a calendar year would suggest this might become a thing.
Given the precedent of their refusal to accept the referendum result, if The Brexit Party ever won a seat I’d expect 10% of the constituents to instantly demand a recall every time
Given the antics of UKIP MEPs there is likely to be plenty of scope for recall petitions.
There would be a lot of recall petitions on very spurious grounds if any Brexit Party MPs were elected. We might even discover that by elections are only ‘advisory’
You do realise petitions can only be raised in specific circumstances - prison sentences, expenses fraud and getting barred from the HoC - are you taking it as a given that Brexit party mps will do all those things (and "be made scapegoats of by the establishment?")
Anything’s possible, they’ll find a way. Who would have thought that we’d be told by MPs that the referendum was ‘only advisory’ and we still wouldn’t have left in June 2019 after voting to do so three years earlier? Or that the default of No Deal would be voted down by MPs who want a second go at it?
Mr. HYUFD, compare how many know who Boris is to how many know who Rory is. That recognition has an effect. Boris might still be ahead, even if Rory were better known, but we don't know either way.
I think Stewart is the only candidate who could challenge Boris for appeal in Scotland yes and indeed Rory already polls better in Scotland than in England.
What is clear however is Hunt does terribly in Scotland, the Foreign Secretary leading the Tories to just 19%, even Gove and Raab do better in Scotland than Hunt does (albeit the former helped by his Scottish roots)
Scots are racist?
No but they like their own e.g. Brown won a landslide in Scotland in 2010 despite losing power nationally
They are not racist... but they prefer someone of their own race?
Trump skewering Khan on violence again and Khan still has no fucking clue. Honestly if the lib Dems put up a candidate that isn't Chuka I'll vote for them. I'll never vote for the racist, Bailey.
Homicide is sharply down in London this year. But don’t let facts get in your way.
Really? There’s a lot of press attention on it so assumed it was up (presumably they are slicing and dicing [sick] to focus on teenage knife killings or something]
Trump skewering Khan on violence again and Khan still has no fucking clue. Honestly if the lib Dems put up a candidate that isn't Chuka I'll vote for them. I'll never vote for the racist, Bailey.
Homicide is sharply down in London this year. But don’t let facts get in your way.
Really? There’s a lot of press attention on it so assumed it was up (presumably they are slicing and dicing [sick] to focus on teenage knife killings or something]
Rory has lined himself up as the ultimate 'I told you so' candidate for when Boris fails to deliver Brexit.
Rory is only prepared to deliver Brexit with May's Deal, Boris will deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal that is the difference between them
I doubt this very much. Boris is a strategising chameleon, not an ideologue. The current phase of strategy simply requires him to say that he so very, passionately believes in Brexit with a deal or without a deal, that's all.
Boris does want a Deal yes and ideally a renegotiated one with no backstop or a time limited backstop but if not he will go to No Deal
Rory has lined himself up as the ultimate 'I told you so' candidate for when Boris fails to deliver Brexit.
Rory is only prepared to deliver Brexit with May's Deal, Boris will deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal that is the difference between them
As Rory keeps saying Boris can't deliver No Deal. Parliament wont let him. He will have to win a majority at a GE to do it.
The House of Commons voted against trying to bring legislation to block No Deal last week
That number is fluid and it's happened before in this parliament. If Boris dumps anti no-dealers such as Gauke and Hammond of the cabinet unceremoniously I suspect they'll vote against the government like Greening did. Wednesday's vote only failed because the motion was in the name of Corbyn and gave the Labour Party the power to control the timetable instead of Letwin etc.
Mr. HYUFD, Citizens Assemblies sound like a steaming pile of horse manure, lacking the electoral mandate of a referendum *and* the delegated responsibility of a Parliament.
Yes they seem to be Rory's biggest new idea, other than that he is largely continuity May policy and Brexit wise, hence why May voted for him last week
@Morris_Dancer the philosophical argument is that MPs are failing in their job to represent the people’s interests and therefore you need to have a group of non political career minded people
My guess is that a Citizen’s Assembly would pass the deal
You’d think the 10% threshold should be reached. Two recalls in a calendar year would suggest this might become a thing.
Given the precedent of their refusal to accept the referendum result, if The Brexit Party ever won a seat I’d expect 10% of the constituents to instantly demand a recall every time
Given the antics of UKIP MEPs there is likely to be plenty of scope for recall petitions.
There would be a lot of recall petitions on very spurious grounds if any Brexit Party MPs were elected. We might even discover that by elections are only ‘advisory’
You do not understand how recall petitions are triggered.
You’d think the 10% threshold should be reached. Two recalls in a calendar year would suggest this might become a thing.
Given the precedent of their refusal to accept the referendum result, if The Brexit Party ever won a seat I’d expect 10% of the constituents to instantly demand a recall every time
Given the antics of UKIP MEPs there is likely to be plenty of scope for recall petitions.
There would be a lot of recall petitions on very spurious grounds if any Brexit Party MPs were elected. We might even discover that by elections are only ‘advisory’
You do realise petitions can only be raised in specific circumstances - prison sentences, expenses fraud and getting barred from the HoC - are you taking it as a given that Brexit party mps will do all those things (and "be made scapegoats of by the establishment?")
Anything’s possible, they’ll find a way. Who would have thought that we’d be told by MPs that the referendum was ‘only advisory’ and we still wouldn’t have left in June 2019 after voting to do so three years earlier? Or that the default of No Deal would be voted down by MPs who want a second go at it?
You are just being silly now, theyd have to amend legislation to do what you are suggesting, it's not a matter of easily finding a way. No, anything is not possible, at present the possible things are finite and changing that is not simple .
Rory has lined himself up as the ultimate 'I told you so' candidate for when Boris fails to deliver Brexit.
Rory is only prepared to deliver Brexit with May's Deal, Boris will deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal that is the difference between them
I doubt this very much. Boris is a strategising chameleon, not an ideologue. The current phase of strategy simply requires him to say that he so very, passionately believes in Brexit with a deal or without a deal, that's all.
Boris does want a Deal yes and ideally a renegotiated one with no backstop or a time limited backstop but if not he will go to No Deal
I don't think so. I think he will go for whatever policy prolongs his power, independent of the ramifications or ideological passions burning inside those supporting it, however fondly they believe him to be their man. No-deal would end his premiership within months, if not weeks, so he won't go for it.
Trump skewering Khan on violence again and Khan still has no fucking clue. Honestly if the lib Dems put up a candidate that isn't Chuka I'll vote for them. I'll never vote for the racist, Bailey.
Homicide is sharply down in London this year. But don’t let facts get in your way.
Really? There’s a lot of press attention on it so assumed it was up (presumably they are slicing and dicing [sick] to focus on teenage knife killings or something]
The long term trend remains, I believe, down. It was somewhat distorted by the mass locking up of young scrotes in the wake of the 2011 riots. With their release and the arrival of a new generation of young scrotes, there’s been a reversion to the long term trend.
To be clear, I don’t think politicians of any stripe have much to do with the trend in crime.
Hunt on Marr now and refuses to commit to a date to leave the EU but says he can still negotiate a good deal and change the backstop and if no prospect of a good deal we would leave with no deal
If there is a by election it is foolish to make any assumption about the outcome based on opinion polls.
1. It is a byelection (obviously) 2. It’s a wide spread, rural community making canvassing difficult and require boots on the ground. 3. Will require local candidate with knowledge of local issues 4. Will have little to do with the outcome of the Tory leadership outcome.
I don’t know the place so there will be other factors which give better reasons for predicting the result than using polls.
The LibDem candidate will be their current leader in Wales, born in Wrexham, a Welsh speaker who fought Montgomery (or whatever it is called now) last time.
It is called Montgomeryshire.
Jane Dodds does not live in the Brecon & Radnor constituency.
She lives in Welshpool. I have never heard her speak Welsh.
Hmmm .. it is bit like the embarrassing Anglophone Canadian politicians who mumble a few incoherent French words on their trip to Montreal or Quebec City to show that they are really Canadiens as well.
Yes but she sounds like that in English as well, so it is hard to decide. In both languages, her speech sounds unnaturally slow and over-enunciated. Clearly she can speak Welsh at some level.
Ah, I see she is a social worker in child protection so perhaps that is where she developed this speech pattern (or maybe it is just the autocue!)
Hunt on Marr now and refuses to commit to a date to leave the EU but says he can still negotiate a good deal and if no prospect of a good deal we would leave with no deal
He's also just said he's prepared to leave with no deal - is that a new line from him?
Yes they seem to be Rory's biggest new idea, other than that he is largely continuity May policy and Brexit wise, hence why May voted for him last week
I'm unaware of any verified authoritative source that May voted for Stewart, just speculation and gossip.
On topic: If the LibDems are heavily campaigning for a recall, then I think the 10% threshold will be reached. It's disingenuous of them, to be sure - the leaflet in the header is misleading - but it's a very simple, you might almost say populist, message, and I think will cut through to those who either haven't actually followed the case but are being told they were defrauded, or who want a by-election for other reasons. That combination should make 10%, I'd have thought.
If the Brexit Party stands, which they probably will, then the LibDems will win this and the new Tory leader will be in an even greater mess.
Rory has lined himself up as the ultimate 'I told you so' candidate for when Boris fails to deliver Brexit.
Rory is only prepared to deliver Brexit with May's Deal, Boris will deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal that is the difference between them
As Rory keeps saying Boris can't deliver No Deal. Parliament wont let him. He will have to win a majority at a GE to do it.
The House of Commons voted against trying to bring legislation to block No Deal last week
Conservative MPs correctly judged that as Labour trying to take advantage of their leadership election to sow further chaos. They'll give a new leader time to control the agenda and propose an acceptable deal. But if Johnson (or any other PM) tries to pursue no deal, there are certainly the numbers there to block it - just that they don't need to do it now.
Trump skewering Khan on violence again and Khan still has no fucking clue. Honestly if the lib Dems put up a candidate that isn't Chuka I'll vote for them. I'll never vote for the racist, Bailey.
Homicide is sharply down in London this year. But don’t let facts get in your way.
Really? There’s a lot of press attention on it so assumed it was up (presumably they are slicing and dicing [sick] to focus on teenage knife killings or something]
The long term trend remains, I believe, down. It was somewhat distorted by the mass locking up of young scrotes in the wake of the 2011 riots. With their release and the arrival of a new generation of young scrotes, there’s been a reversion to the long term trend.
To be clear, I don’t think politicians of any stripe have much to do with the trend in crime.
Maybe a coincidence, but the numbers were a lot worse under Livingstone than Boris, and seem to have risen since Khan took over
Regarding the televised Tory hustings why would other parties complain? It's hardly goo g to be an advert for the Conservative Party. As for Tory, he brings something to the contest that the Tories need - a candidate who doesn't make the skin crawl.
Gove is an ideologue far too in love with himself - perhaps the gak fuels his ambition Hunt looks like Goebbels and can't be taken remotely seriously (those name slips weren't all accidents) Javid is anonymous and is banging on about his back story because he's got nothing else Can't even remember the other one.
I will watch tonight's debate with interest. Stewart is saying things the party doesn't want to hear, which should be why he doesn't stand a chance. Yet here is is making all the running attracting the attention. " 'Tory politician with a brain' shock". His only problem being that I don't think the membership have a brain, and millions of voters definitely don't have one when it comes to Brexit
Ed Davey makes the point that the BBC running weeks of debates between pro No Deal Leavers isn't fair and should be balanced by giving similar time to Remainers by giving similar time to the Lib Dem leadership election who after all have just beaten the Tories in the Euros.
If it wasn't for the Tories capacity to eat themselves even when debating on the same side I'd think he had a good point
Cont....Vince Cable excellent on Radio 5. Maybe the future is Orange?
God the lies they will tell to be leader of the conservative, how can anybody who opposed leaving in the first place suddenly believe it is now a golden opportunity?
Hunt on Marr now and refuses to commit to a date to leave the EU but says he can still negotiate a good deal and if no prospect of a good deal we would leave with no deal
They all say they'd get a better deal. Does Hunt (or Boris or any of the others) describe what a good deal might look like? Do they say what they'd do without a deal (as last thread, the Gauke question: place tariffs on the EU, or remove them from everywhere else)? And what deals they would attempt to negotiate over the years following? All the candidates give the impression they think we just leave and then it is over.
You’d think the 10% threshold should be reached. Two recalls in a calendar year would suggest this might become a thing.
Given the precedent of their refusal to accept the referendum result, if The Brexit Party ever won a seat I’d expect 10% of the constituents to instantly demand a recall every time
Given the antics of UKIP MEPs there is likely to be plenty of scope for recall petitions.
There would be a lot of recall petitions on very spurious grounds if any Brexit Party MPs were elected. We might even discover that by elections are only ‘advisory’
You do not understand how recall petitions are triggered.
You’d think the 10% threshold should be reached. Two recalls in a calendar year would suggest this might become a thing.
Given the precedent of their refusal to accept the referendum result, if The Brexit Party ever won a seat I’d expect 10% of the constituents to instantly demand a recall every time
Given the antics of UKIP MEPs there is likely to be plenty of scope for recall petitions.
There would be a lot of recall petitions on very spurious grounds if any Brexit Party MPs were elected. We might even discover that by elections are only ‘advisory’
You do realise petitions can only be raised in specific circumstances - prison sentences, expenses fraud and getting barred from the HoC - are you taking it as a given that Brexit party mps will do all those things (and "be made scapegoats of by the establishment?")
Anything’s possible, they’ll find a way. Who would have thought that we’d be told by MPs that the referendum was ‘only advisory’ and we still wouldn’t have left in June 2019 after voting to do so three years earlier? Or that the default of No Deal would be voted down by MPs who want a second go at it?
You are just being silly now, theyd have to amend legislation to do what you are suggesting, it's not a matter of easily finding a way. No, anything is not possible, at present the possible things are finite and changing that is not simple .
The Remainer hardcore will do something to find illegitimacy with any Brexit Party or Leave win. They love a petition and a march.
Not at all. Both on grounds of integrity, and with a view to his future career, it's an excellent move. Whoever is going to have to try to pick up the pieces after the multiple pile-up of a Boris premiership can't be someone who helped cause the carnage.
On topic: If the LibDems are heavily campaigning for a recall, then I think the 10% threshold will be reached. It's disingenuous of them, to be sure - the leaflet in the header is misleading - but it's a very simple, you might almost say populist, message, and I think will cut through to those who either haven't actually followed the case but are being told they were defrauded, or who want a by-election for other reasons. That combination should make 10%, I'd have thought.
If the Brexit Party stands, which they probably will, then the LibDems will win this and the new Tory leader will be in an even greater mess.
Not if Boris wins back most Brexit Party voters to the Tories
Hmmm .. it is bit like the embarrassing Anglophone Canadian politicians who mumble a few incoherent French words on their trip to Montreal or Quebec City to show that they are really Canadiens as well.
Stephen Harper put a lot of genuine effort into learning French and was not actually terrible (B1 maybe) by the time he got hoofed out.
Hunt on Marr now and refuses to commit to a date to leave the EU but says he can still negotiate a good deal and if no prospect of a good deal we would leave with no deal
They all say they'd get a better deal. Does Hunt (or Boris or any of the others) describe what a good deal might look like? Do they say what they'd do without a deal (as last thread, the Gauke question: place tariffs on the EU, or remove them from everywhere else)? And what deals they would attempt to negotiate over the years following? All the candidates give the impression they think we just leave and then it is over.
But we will be on wto rules that solves everything are you not getting the message you are supposed to believe?
Trump skewering Khan on violence again and Khan still has no fucking clue. Honestly if the lib Dems put up a candidate that isn't Chuka I'll vote for them. I'll never vote for the racist, Bailey.
Homicide is sharply down in London this year. But don’t let facts get in your way.
Really? There’s a lot of press attention on it so assumed it was up (presumably they are slicing and dicing [sick] to focus on teenage knife killings or something]
The long term trend remains, I believe, down. It was somewhat distorted by the mass locking up of young scrotes in the wake of the 2011 riots. With their release and the arrival of a new generation of young scrotes, there’s been a reversion to the long term trend.
To be clear, I don’t think politicians of any stripe have much to do with the trend in crime.
Maybe a coincidence, but the numbers were a lot worse under Livingstone than Boris, and seem to have risen since Khan took over
Why? Boris has every chance of failing and failing quite quickly. If that happens, far better to stay out of it and say "I told you so" than go into it, and be judged dishonest for changing your tune as well as part of a losing team.
Of course, if Johnson turns out to be a triumphant decade long PM then it'll be a major mistake. But the jury is very much out on that.
Rory has lined himself up as the ultimate 'I told you so' candidate for when Boris fails to deliver Brexit.
Rory is only prepared to deliver Brexit with May's Deal, Boris will deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal that is the difference between them
As Rory keeps saying Boris can't deliver No Deal. Parliament wont let him. He will have to win a majority at a GE to do it.
The House of Commons voted against trying to bring legislation to block No Deal last week
Technically, no - they voted against reserving parliamentary time during the week after next, with the expectation that such a motion would be brought forward then. One of the issues during the debate is that MPs were being asked to vote for the time without knowing what the motion would say.
Trump skewering Khan on violence again and Khan still has no fucking clue. Honestly if the lib Dems put up a candidate that isn't Chuka I'll vote for them. I'll never vote for the racist, Bailey.
Homicide is sharply down in London this year. But don’t let facts get in your way.
Really? There’s a lot of press attention on it so assumed it was up (presumably they are slicing and dicing [sick] to focus on teenage knife killings or something]
The long term trend remains, I believe, down. It was somewhat distorted by the mass locking up of young scrotes in the wake of the 2011 riots. With their release and the arrival of a new generation of young scrotes, there’s been a reversion to the long term trend.
To be clear, I don’t think politicians of any stripe have much to do with the trend in crime.
Maybe a coincidence, but the numbers were a lot worse under Livingstone than Boris, and seem to have risen since Khan took over
Ken recruited more coppers which is probably one reason crime started to fall, and Theresa May got rid of them which is probably why it rose. Though it would also be interesting to see how the number of young men (most likely to commit crime) rose and fell.
What’s poor about it, he fundamentally disagrees with his stance . And doesn’t want any future leadership challenge being tainted by the stench of being part of the likely lunatic cabinet Bozo will put together .
It's a principled judgement. Stewart could have played the game as McVey has done. He could have carried a successful and nationally popular campaign through to the end and ducked the Boris question and thus expect another cabinet post.
Hunt on Marr now and refuses to commit to a date to leave the EU but says he can still negotiate a good deal and if no prospect of a good deal we would leave with no deal
He's also just said he's prepared to leave with no deal - is that a new line from him?
He has hinted at it before but this is the first time Hunt has firmly said I think he would take us to No Deal if necessary.
Hunt trying to appeal to both sides of the Brexit divide but by saying he would take us to No Deal he risks losing Remain backing MPs to Rory while his refusal to commit to leave the EU in October means he will still not win over Leave backing MPs from Boris
It is at least honest, while Brexit is the only game in town. The alternative is to spend a leadership campaign explaining why Boris's approach is flawed, and then be forced to support and argue for that same approach under collective cabinet responsibility.
"If Johnson is leader and this survey, the format of which and presentation in the paper has been widely criticised, is on the right lines then a CON hold should be a doddle"
This sentence should not be in a header article in Political Betting. I expect better.
On topic: If the LibDems are heavily campaigning for a recall, then I think the 10% threshold will be reached. It's disingenuous of them, to be sure - the leaflet in the header is misleading - but it's a very simple, you might almost say populist, message, and I think will cut through to those who either haven't actually followed the case but are being told they were defrauded, or who want a by-election for other reasons. That combination should make 10%, I'd have thought.
If the Brexit Party stands, which they probably will, then the LibDems will win this and the new Tory leader will be in an even greater mess.
Not if Boris wins back most Brexit Party voters to the Tories
Which he won't. That is the humdinger of a miscalculation which is distorting the leadership contest. He'll win back some, for a while, but Farage will be going strong on the 'Betrayal!' narrative irrespective of who is leader, and telling peope to vote TBP to keep the Tories honest. This is surely the most obvious of points, and will be especially catastrophic for the Conservative Party once Boris has missed his self-imposed 31st October hard deadline.
Mr. HYUFD, compare how many know who Boris is to how many know who Rory is. That recognition has an effect. Boris might still be ahead, even if Rory were better known, but we don't know either way.
I think Stewart is the only candidate who could challenge Boris for appeal in Scotland yes and indeed Rory already polls better in Scotland than in England.
What is clear however is Hunt does terribly in Scotland, the Foreign Secretary leading the Tories to just 19%, even Gove and Raab do better in Scotland than Hunt does (albeit the former helped by his Scottish roots)
Scots are racist?
No but they like their own e.g. Brown won a landslide in Scotland in 2010 despite losing power nationally
They are not racist... but they prefer someone of their own race?
Umm...
Aside from the peurile notion that the Scots are a 'race', any reason that Scots didn't show much of a preference for those fine examples of the Scotch race, IDS, Cameron and Blair?
Trump skewering Khan on violence again and Khan still has no fucking clue. Honestly if the lib Dems put up a candidate that isn't Chuka I'll vote for them. I'll never vote for the racist, Bailey.
Homicide is sharply down in London this year. But don’t let facts get in your way.
Really? There’s a lot of press attention on it so assumed it was up (presumably they are slicing and dicing [sick] to focus on teenage knife killings or something]
The long term trend remains, I believe, down. It was somewhat distorted by the mass locking up of young scrotes in the wake of the 2011 riots. With their release and the arrival of a new generation of young scrotes, there’s been a reversion to the long term trend.
To be clear, I don’t think politicians of any stripe have much to do with the trend in crime.
Maybe a coincidence, but the numbers were a lot worse under Livingstone than Boris, and seem to have risen since Khan took over
Bit unfair to Ken that really
Is that absolute numbers? Interesting to know rate per 100,000 population
Rory has lined himself up as the ultimate 'I told you so' candidate for when Boris fails to deliver Brexit.
Rory is only prepared to deliver Brexit with May's Deal, Boris will deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal that is the difference between them
As Rory keeps saying Boris can't deliver No Deal. Parliament wont let him. He will have to win a majority at a GE to do it.
The House of Commons voted against trying to bring legislation to block No Deal last week
Conservative MPs correctly judged that as Labour trying to take advantage of their leadership election to sow further chaos. They'll give a new leader time to control the agenda and propose an acceptable deal. But if Johnson (or any other PM) tries to pursue no deal, there are certainly the numbers there to block it - just that they don't need to do it now.
That depends, it was Labour MPs from Leave seats won by the Brexit Party in the European Parliament elections that made the difference last week in the defeat of an attempt to block No Deal
It is at least honest, while Brexit is the only game in town. The alternative is to spend a leadership campaign explaining why Boris's approach is flawed, and then be forced to support and argue for that same approach under collective cabinet responsibility.
On topic: If the LibDems are heavily campaigning for a recall, then I think the 10% threshold will be reached. It's disingenuous of them, to be sure - the leaflet in the header is misleading - but it's a very simple, you might almost say populist, message, and I think will cut through to those who either haven't actually followed the case but are being told they were defrauded, or who want a by-election for other reasons. That combination should make 10%, I'd have thought.
If the Brexit Party stands, which they probably will, then the LibDems will win this and the new Tory leader will be in an even greater mess.
Not if Boris wins back most Brexit Party voters to the Tories
Which he won't. That is the humdinger of a miscalculation which is distorting the leadership contest. He'll win back some, for a while, but Farage will be going strong on the 'Betrayal!' narrative irrespective of who is leader, and telling peope to vote TBP to keep the Tories honest. This is surely the most obvious of points, and will be especially catastrophic for the Conservative Party once Boris has missed his self-imposed 31st October hard deadline.
Comments
Polling is merely an indication, subject to lots of caveats and a significant degree of error. Polling about leaders who aren't even in post is even more flaky, and can never be proven right or wrong since we will never get to compare different leaders' performances in the same election. How a leader performs in office can be very different from what people may be expecting, even if they have heard of the person to begin with.
If you are the frontrunner, why risk a debate?
However, Johnson would probably do just fine in a televised debate. He is pretty fluent and glib and used to TV cameras, which is mainly what is needed.
A forensic interview would be another matter -- but no politician normally allows themselves to be placed in such a vulnerable spot.
Do you have a link?
But, e.g., I think in terms of articulating an argument, or defending a position, he is better than the awkwardness and inarticulacy of May.
I suspect if there is a debate between Johnson, Corbyn and (say) Davey -- Johnson would probably win.
Voters without expense accounts will surely feel that if the Sainsbury's checkout overcharges on tomato soup, they would speak to customer services, not shoplift a can of tuna to even things out.
Voters with expense accounts can check their own employer's policy and probably this would be a sacking offence in any reasonably large organisation.
I'd agree the IPSA system is not fit for purpose, but perhaps a human could have guided him to a satisfactory resolution.
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1140191429475672064
Pienaar "Sajid has made a lot of being the son of a Pakistani bus driver. Would his father be able to get into this country under this Conservative government?"
Atkins "Well there are channels where people can come in"
Pienaar "What exactly are the channels for a Pakistani bus driver?"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48646922
Umm...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/12/london-homicides-now-highest-in-a-year-for-a-decade
My guess is that a Citizen’s Assembly would pass the deal
To be clear, I don’t think politicians of any stripe have much to do with the trend in crime.
Ah, I see she is a social worker in child protection so perhaps that is where she developed this speech pattern (or maybe it is just the autocue!)
If the Brexit Party stands, which they probably will, then the LibDems will win this and the new Tory leader will be in an even greater mess.
Gove is an ideologue far too in love with himself - perhaps the gak fuels his ambition
Hunt looks like Goebbels and can't be taken remotely seriously (those name slips weren't all accidents)
Javid is anonymous and is banging on about his back story because he's got nothing else
Can't even remember the other one.
I will watch tonight's debate with interest. Stewart is saying things the party doesn't want to hear, which should be why he doesn't stand a chance. Yet here is is making all the running attracting the attention. " 'Tory politician with a brain' shock". His only problem being that I don't think the membership have a brain, and millions of voters definitely don't have one when it comes to Brexit
If it wasn't for the Tories capacity to eat themselves even when debating on the same side I'd think he had a good point
Cont....Vince Cable excellent on Radio 5. Maybe the future is Orange?
Bit unfair to Ken that really
Of course, if Johnson turns out to be a triumphant decade long PM then it'll be a major mistake. But the jury is very much out on that.
Hunt trying to appeal to both sides of the Brexit divide but by saying he would take us to No Deal he risks losing Remain backing MPs to Rory while his refusal to commit to leave the EU in October means he will still not win over Leave backing MPs from Boris
Union Jack I think
This sentence should not be in a header article in Political Betting. I expect better.
Cross-over soon?