I love the lists of non-MP endorsements on Wikipedia for the Tory leadership election. Only in a Tory leadership race do we get endorsements from Tattersalls (Matt Hancock), the main auctioneer of race horses in the UK are Ireland, and Arbuthnot Latham (Dominic Raab), a private merchant bank in The City.
The TMay effect. She was so crap people truly believe anyone can become PM.
The Theresa May effect is not that she "was so crap" but that she won almost by chance, simply by dint of being the last woman standing after her rivals shot themselves in both feet.
Watching Marr on a 20 minute delay. Leadsom was just on. What on earth makes these people think they're suitable to be PM? I know the competition is awful, but even so, it's like a parade of people you'd cross the road to avoid.
Whoever wins and however Brexit is resolved the country looks like it's screwed for the foreseeable future
Trump says Nigel Farage should be involved in UK Brexit negotiations and the UK should be prepared to go to No Deal.
He also said in answer to the question whether he would be prepared to share intelligence with a Corbyn government '"I would have to know him, I would have to meet."
> @DecrepitJohnL said: > Here's one of Labour's problems. The latte-sipping hand-wringing crowd now make up a bigger slice of our voters than ever before. The thing is that for many such voters the same virtue signalling can be achieved whether they vote Labour, LibDem or Green. At the moment the two other flavours of right-onism are more appealing. > > > > Meanwhile, we've ignored our working class base and allowed these voters to drift away to populists and abstention. > > > > Basically, we are well on the road to being fecked. > > There is a geographical split as well. Ken Livingstone said a factor in the 1992 result was the leadership was out of touch with the aspirations of London voters. Now the leadership is almost entirely London MPs.
Livingstone was wrong in that Labour did pretty well in London in 1992.
Javid says 'he cannot envisage circumstances' in which he would extend beyond October
This is what is wrong with British politics and has been for at least the past two decades.
Never mind that Brexit or Iraq or the dangerous dogs act has turned out to be more complicated than we thought when we planned it on the back of a beer mat, we must force it through at any cost rather than admit weakness.
So fuck business, we've had enough of experts and we certainly are not taking Opposition amendments.
> > Yes, yes, it's him I know, but the observation is not wholly without merit (if you take "Tory" to mean 1960s One Nation Tory, rather than modern, radical Brexiteer Tory.) Meanwhile...
>
>
>
> _________________________
>
>
>
> The Lib Dems have a simple and fairly powerful message in Scotland: We are the only party that supports union with England and with the rest of Europe. That's the constitutional position of essentially all Labour voters that didn't defect to the SNP in 2014 and half of Conservative voters.
>
> LOL, they are bottom feeders in Scotland, a joke. Rennie is dire and they are fixated on No More Referendums we must remain subservient subjects of England. They scrabble about hoping to be best of the losers at the bottom end of the pile. If not for the voting system they would could not fill a phone box.
> Rennie makes Leonard almost look good.
++++++++++++++++++
Supporting both unions is a minority position, but a large and easily understood one, which the Lib Dems have to themselves.
They have no policies of interest in Scotland and will continue to struggle to have any relevance, especially if they have a fake like Swinson as leader to supplement the hapless Rennie sockpuppet. She needs to realise the sun set on the empire some time ago.
> @kinabalu said: > > @rottenborough said: > > We could end up with Gove having most MPs votes in final round, but Boris going with him to the membership and the latter winning a landslide. > > > > Tory Party would then be like Lab - saddled by membership with someone they don't want. > > Worse than that. The COUNTRY would be saddled with someone they don't want.
Boo bloody hoo. Remind me - what say did the country have when Labour swappped out Prime Minister Wilson for Prime Minister Callaghan? Or Prime Minister Blair for Prime Minister Brown?
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @OldKingCole said: > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > @OldKingCole said: > > > > Ipsos-Mori rang me the other day. However when they discovered my age and where I lived they didn't want my opinion! > > > > > > Really. How wrong can they be > > > > Er...... thank you. > > > > I think! > > I am a similar age and do not see how a polling company does not want your opinion
It is probably a case of the survey being conducted having already met its target in terms of his demographic group.
> @HYUFD said: > Trump says Nigel Farage should be involved in UK Brexit negotiations and the UK should be prepared to go to No Deal. > > He also said in answer to the question whether he would be prepared to share intelligence with a Corbyn government '"I would have to know him, I would have to meet." > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48487973
No chance. Jeremy will be washing his hair. And rightly so.
> @justin124 said: > > @DecrepitJohnL said: > > Here's one of Labour's problems. The latte-sipping hand-wringing crowd now make up a bigger slice of our voters than ever before. The thing is that for many such voters the same virtue signalling can be achieved whether they vote Labour, LibDem or Green. At the moment the two other flavours of right-onism are more appealing. > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, we've ignored our working class base and allowed these voters to drift away to populists and abstention. > > > > > > > > Basically, we are well on the road to being fecked. > > > > There is a geographical split as well. Ken Livingstone said a factor in the 1992 result was the leadership was out of touch with the aspirations of London voters. Now the leadership is almost entirely London MPs. > > Livingstone was wrong in that Labour did pretty well in London in 1992.
Labour actually did well in middle class areas of London in 1992 it was the likes of Edmonton, Erith, Hayes and Mitcham where they did worse than in 1979.
> @HYUFD said: > Trump says Nigel Farage should be involved in UK Brexit negotiations and the UK should be prepared to go to No Deal. > > He also said in answer to the question whether he would be prepared to share intelligence with a Corbyn government '"I would have to know him, I would have to meet." > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48487973
Trump is so divisive I doubt Boris is overjoyed at his endorsement and the Country even less so over Farage. As I said earlier it is interesting Farage is starring to attack Boris. Obviously worried Boris could displace him as top dog
And having seen Jo Swinson's interview I'm not convinced she's the right leader for the Lib Dems. I can see why some people wouldn't like her, she came across as being a bit frustrated and confrontational, even if her message was clear. Not that Ed Davey would necessarily be any better
> @HYUFD said: > Javid says 'he cannot envisage circumstances' in which he would extend beyond October
Silly of the Saj. He's categorically ruled out a GE and a 2nd Ref. Therefore the circumstances in which he would need to extend boil down to (i) he fails to get the EU to drop the backstop and (ii) he fails to get No Deal through a parliament that is dead set against it.
Now I can envisage these circumstances quite easily. I think we all can.
So what does it say about the man bidding to become our first Muslim PM that he can't?
> @kinabalu said: > > @HYUFD said: > > Javid says 'he cannot envisage circumstances' in which he would extend beyond October > > Silly of the Saj. He's categorically ruled out a GE and a 2nd Ref. Therefore the circumstances in which he would need to extend boil down to (i) he fails to get the EU to drop the backstop and (ii) he fails to get No Deal through a parliament that is dead set against it. > > Now I can envisage these circumstances quite easily. I think we all can. > > So what does it say about the man bidding to become our first Muslim PM that he can't? > > Is he thick? Or is he mendacious?
I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @HYUFD said: > > Trump says Nigel Farage should be involved in UK Brexit negotiations and the UK should be prepared to go to No Deal. > > > > He also said in answer to the question whether he would be prepared to share intelligence with a Corbyn government '"I would have to know him, I would have to meet." > > > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48487973 > > Trump is so divisive I doubt Boris is overjoyed at his endorsement and the Country even less so over Farage. As I said earlier it is interesting Farage is starring to attack Boris. Obviously worried Boris could displace him as top dog
Farage and Boris were the key figures in the Leave campaign but it was probably Boris that got Leave to 52%, Farage represents the Brexit hardcore
> @MaxPB said: > I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared.
> @DecrepitJohnL said: > Javid says 'he cannot envisage circumstances' in which he would extend beyond October > > This is what is wrong with British politics and has been for at least the past two decades. > > Never mind that Brexit or Iraq or the dangerous dogs act has turned out to be more complicated than we thought when we planned it on the back of a beer mat, we must force it through at any cost rather than admit weakness. > > So fuck business, we've had enough of experts and we certainly are not taking Opposition amendments.
Maybe but until Brexit is implemented the Brexit Party surge will only continue
> I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared.
lol, that ship sailed years ago.
No, it disappeared with that idiot Theresa "the state has the answer to all questions" May. She was never a proper Conservative, she was more like a Christian Democrat.
> @MaxPB said: > I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared. > > It's time to cut taxes.
Javid today said he might scrap the top income tax rate, Raab has said he would cut it to 35%
> @MarqueeMark said: > > Boo bloody hoo. Remind me - what say did the country have when Labour swappped out Prime Minister Wilson for Prime Minister Callaghan? Or Prime Minister Blair for Prime Minister Brown?
That is a point. But this is twice for heaven's sake. Without precedent as far as I can recall.
Last PM with any sort of personal mandate was Call Me Dave.
> @MaxPB said: > I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared. > > It's time to cut taxes.
Free market economics ended when the banks were bailed out.
The trillion quid of government borrowing then buried it.
> @another_richard said: > > @justin124 said: > > > @DecrepitJohnL said: > > > Here's one of Labour's problems. The latte-sipping hand-wringing crowd now make up a bigger slice of our voters than ever before. The thing is that for many such voters the same virtue signalling can be achieved whether they vote Labour, LibDem or Green. At the moment the two other flavours of right-onism are more appealing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, we've ignored our working class base and allowed these voters to drift away to populists and abstention. > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically, we are well on the road to being fecked. > > > > > > There is a geographical split as well. Ken Livingstone said a factor in the 1992 result was the leadership was out of touch with the aspirations of London voters. Now the leadership is almost entirely London MPs. > > > > Livingstone was wrong in that Labour did pretty well in London in 1992. > > Labour actually did well in middle class areas of London in 1992 it was the likes of Edmonton, Erith, Hayes and Mitcham where they did worse than in 1979.
Indeed - but even in those seats there were big swings to Labour compared with 1987. Had the London results been typical, Kinnock would have entered No 10.
> I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared.
>
> It's time to cut taxes.
Free market economics ended when the banks were bailed out.
The trillion quid of government borrowing then buried it.
We now live in the corporate state.
Yes, we should have let RBS and HBOS go to the wall and stood behind depositors. Completely agree with that.
> @HYUFD said: > > @DecrepitJohnL said: > > Javid says 'he cannot envisage circumstances' in which he would extend beyond October > > > > This is what is wrong with British politics and has been for at least the past two decades. > > > > Never mind that Brexit or Iraq or the dangerous dogs act has turned out to be more complicated than we thought when we planned it on the back of a beer mat, we must force it through at any cost rather than admit weakness. > > > > So fuck business, we've had enough of experts and we certainly are not taking Opposition amendments. > > Maybe but until Brexit is implemented the Brexit Party surge will only continue
If Javid cannot envisage circumstances in which he would extend, then he clearly hasn't spent a moment thinking about the problem.
But if elected she will be sending us all a pamphlet on No Deal. That is not something I've heard anyone else promise. Although I suppose they all will now.
> @kinabalu said: > > @Theuniondivvie said: > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > Andrea Leadsom very unconvincing on Marr > > > > So situation normal then. > > But if elected she will be sending us all a pamphlet on No Deal. That is not something I've heard anyone else promise. Although I suppose they all will now.
With this lot of clowns running the Government, the leaflet would probably arrive at homes weeks after we left, as Grayling will be put in charge of posting them.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > He is a politician for goodness sake
Well OK. But I would like the bar to be raised a little. Trouble is, Trump has dropped it to ankle height. That, for me, is his legacy and it is a very powerful one, albeit wholly malign.
> @MaxPB said: > I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared. > --------------
It's hard to imagine a Conservative leader saying these words now:
"We are one world. None of us can opt out of that world and every one of us is affected by the decisions and policies of our neighbours.
"Yet there are those in our society who would cut us off from all our links: who would have us cower in isolation from our neighbours in Europe, from our allies in North America and from all those institutions which help to support the free world. We reject totally that attitude which would diminish Britain.
"The free world—yes, if one world is to have any real meaning, it must find it in freedom. All our economic interests, all our moral and spiritual needs reach out for freedom. We are a sea-faring race, a race of merchants and empire builders. It is not our destiny to huddle together in these islands, protecting ourselves from the winds of change and competition. And tied to our merchant venturing, has been our spirit—the free spirit—which has so marked our nation down the centuries."
> I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared.
>
--------------
It's hard to imagine a Conservative leader saying these words now:
"We are one world. None of us can opt out of that world and every one of us is affected by the decisions and policies of our neighbours.
"Yet there are those in our society who would cut us off from all our links: who would have us cower in isolation from our neighbours in Europe, from our allies in North America and from all those institutions which help to support the free world. We reject totally that attitude which would diminish Britain.
"The free world—yes, if one world is to have any real meaning, it must find it in freedom. All our economic interests, all our moral and spiritual needs reach out for freedom. We are a sea-faring race, a race of merchants and empire builders. It is not our destiny to huddle together in these islands, protecting ourselves from the winds of change and competition. And tied to our merchant venturing, has been our spirit—the free spirit—which has so marked our nation down the centuries."
Yes, yes. We get it you think Mrs T would be a remainer. She wouldn't.
I liked how Loathsome complained that Marr wasn't giving her a chance to answer and then gave two wibbling non-answers to questions about HS2 and Huawei.
> @Mauve said: > And having seen Jo Swinson's interview I'm not convinced she's the right leader for the Lib Dems. I can see why some people wouldn't like her, she came across as being a bit frustrated and confrontational, even if her message was clear. Not that Ed Davey would necessarily be any better
They've a grand total of eleven MPs, and two of those are the outgoing leader and his immediate predecessor. There's not exactly a wealth of choice, unless they try to find someone who isn't actually in the Commons, which might be considered brave in the Sir Humphrey sense of the word.
Yes, at least officially. He's not made much of an impact it would be fair to say.
He's still 'Below the Clinton Line', which is my test for candidate officially running but who Betfair considers less likely to be nominated than Hillary Clinton.
> @williamglenn said: > > @MaxPB said: > > I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared. > > > -------------- > > It's hard to imagine a Conservative leader saying these words now: > > "We are one world. None of us can opt out of that world and every one of us is affected by the decisions and policies of our neighbours. > > "Yet there are those in our society who would cut us off from all our links: who would have us cower in isolation from our neighbours in Europe, from our allies in North America and from all those institutions which help to support the free world. We reject totally that attitude which would diminish Britain. > > "The free world—yes, if one world is to have any real meaning, it must find it in freedom. All our economic interests, all our moral and spiritual needs reach out for freedom. We are a sea-faring race, a race of merchants and empire builders. It is not our destiny to huddle together in these islands, protecting ourselves from the winds of change and competition. And tied to our merchant venturing, has been our spirit—the free spirit—which has so marked our nation down the centuries."
Actually Hannan and Boris would argue they voted for Brexit precisely to be global, free trading buccaneers again rather than tied into the protectionist and over regulatory EU
> @kinabalu said: > > @HYUFD said: > > Trump says Nigel Farage should be involved in UK Brexit negotiations and the UK should be prepared to go to No Deal. > > > > He also said in answer to the question whether he would be prepared to share intelligence with a Corbyn government '"I would have to know him, I would have to meet." > > > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48487973 > > No chance. Jeremy will be washing his hair. And rightly so.
More likely Jezbollah will be helping out his mates in Venezuela.
On the basis of that reception I think it is more likely he runs on a centrist third party ticket with Kasich if it ends up a Trump v Sanders race than has any real shot at the Democratic nomination
> @MaxPB said: > > @MaxPB said: > > > I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared. > > > > > > It's time to cut taxes. > > > > Free market economics ended when the banks were bailed out. > > > > The trillion quid of government borrowing then buried it. > > > > We now live in the corporate state. > > Yes, we should have let RBS and HBOS go to the wall and stood behind depositors. Completely agree with that.
The only economic discussion now is how the places at the trough are arranged.
> @another_richard said: > > @MaxPB said: > > I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared. > > > > It's time to cut taxes. > > Free market economics ended when the banks were bailed out. > > The trillion quid of government borrowing then buried it. > > We now live in the corporate state.
Though of course the US let Lehmans go bust without a bail out
> @HYUFD said: > Actually Hannan and Boris would argue they voted for Brexit precisely to be global, free trading buccaneers again rather than tied into the protectionist and over regulatory EU
Boris would say whatever worked best with the audience he was talking to. Hannan is one of the genuine Globalism In One Country enthusiasts, but there aren't a lot of them like him.
I mean, the other brexit advocates pay lip service to the idea of free trade, but once you get into an actual trade negotiation you'll see that they're the protectionists that you'd expect from the fact that they voted to leave their main free trade zone.
> @Black_Rook said: > > @Mauve said: > > And having seen Jo Swinson's interview I'm not convinced she's the right leader for the Lib Dems. I can see why some people wouldn't like her, she came across as being a bit frustrated and confrontational, even if her message was clear. Not that Ed Davey would necessarily be any better > > They've a grand total of eleven MPs, and two of those are the outgoing leader and his immediate predecessor. There's not exactly a wealth of choice, unless they try to find someone who isn't actually in the Commons, which might be considered brave in the Sir Humphrey sense of the word.
Jo Grimond was selected from a parliamentary party of six MPs , Thorpe from a party of twelve and Steel was elected by a group of thirteen. They all had a lot more gravitas than Swinson - as did the other leadership runners - Pardoe, Lubbock and Hooson.
The Iron Saj needs to a get grip of the Transmanche Middle Eastern & African Yacht Club situation before it taints his otherwise brilliant tilt at the leadership.
With all the delusional and clueless postering about the sanctity of the Oct 31st 'deadline' as the latest Brexiteer article of faith, anyone would think that they had all been on another planet throughout the entireity of March.
Yes, at least officially. He's not made much of an impact it would be fair to say.
He's still 'Below the Clinton Line', which is my test for candidate officially running but who Betfair considers less likely to be nominated than Hillary Clinton.
On the basis of that reception I think it is more likely he runs on a centrist third party ticket with Kasich if it ends up a Trump v Sanders race than has any real shot at the Democratic nomination
> @Jonathan said: > Wonder how many PMs we might have this year. Certainly 2. Easily 3. Possibly 4.
4?
May Then a no-dealer who is no-confidenced when the Commons panics in October Temporary national unity PM to request/revoke A50. Fourth PM after early December GE?
> @rottenborough said: > > @rottenborough said: > > > https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1134966028881027072 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is he actually running? > > > > On the basis of that reception I think it is more likely he runs on a centrist third party ticket with Kasich if it ends up a Trump v Sanders race than has any real shot at the Democratic nomination > > Kasich said he was not running the other day.
No, Kasich left a 2020 run very much on the table last week even while he recognised it would be a tough battle
> On the basis of that reception I think it is more likely he runs on a centrist third party ticket with Kasich if it ends up a Trump v Sanders race than has any real shot at the Democratic nomination
>
> Kasich said he was not running the other day.
No, Kasich left a 2020 run very much on the table yesterday
> @rottenborough said: > JOHN KASICH THROWS IN THE TOWEL, ADMITS IT’S TRUMP’S PARTY NOW > > The unapologetic Never Trumper says “there's no path” for him to run in 2020. > > Vanity Fair.
Not anywhere in that article did Kasich say he would not be running in 2020, he said it would be difficult to win the GOP primaries, nothing more.
As the tweet below from Kasich posted after that article was published confirms
As I originally posted Kasich is far more likely to run on an independent third party ticket with Hickenlooper than to beat Trump for the GOP nomination
> @malcolmg said: > Jo Swinson acts as if her main opponent is Nicola Sturgeon, which makes her ill-suited to take on the mantle of leading the opposition in England. > > She is jealous of the attention Davidson gets and so is aping her, two attention seeking single policy useless twerps.
> @rottenborough said: > > @rottenborough said: > > > > @rottenborough said: > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1134966028881027072 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is he actually running? > > > > > > > > > > > > On the basis of that reception I think it is more likely he runs on a centrist third party ticket with Kasich if it ends up a Trump v Sanders race than has any real shot at the Democratic nomination > > > > > > Kasich said he was not running the other day. > > > > No, Kasich left a 2020 run very much on the table yesterday > > > > https://twitter.com/JohnKasich/status/1134574150809526272 > > > > Ok, thanks. Pretty sure I had read the opposite somewhere. Possibly just poor reporting.
I think it was more the fact Kasich recognised he would not beat Trump with Republican voters than he would not run at all, especially as running as an Independent remains viable and particularly in a Trump v Sanders contest
> @williamglenn said: > Jo Swinson acts as if her main opponent is Nicola Sturgeon, which makes her ill-suited to take on the mantle of leading the opposition in England.
Excellent. I really hope Ken Clark is brought in from the cold. Maybe at International Trade. We need some serious competence there.
The way your party is going, he’s more likely to be thrown out.
Look at the utter nonsense on trade that is being spoken by most of the contenders for leadership. It should disbar them from even being a candidate for MP let alone PM.
> @williamglenn said: > Jo Swinson acts as if her main opponent is Nicola Sturgeon, which makes her ill-suited to take on the mantle of leading the opposition in England.
Like most remaining Scotch LDs Swinson probably has Unionism has her defining political identity, hence the endless Sturgeonating. Since she seems to live mainly in England, it's rather odd that she hasn't caught up with the Union being quite far down the list of priorities for most English folk.
> Jo Swinson acts as if her main opponent is Nicola Sturgeon, which makes her ill-suited to take on the mantle of leading the opposition in England.
>
> She is jealous of the attention Davidson gets and so is aping her, two attention seeking single policy useless twerps.
SNP'er complaining about single policy......
You don't see the SNP bleating every day about independence, Tories and Lib Dems manage that as they are fixated. SNP are getting on with trying to save the country from the ravages of the Westminster cartel. Add limp Labour, given SNP just keep on getting more popular after more than 12 years in power,and it easy to see why the unionists are suffering panic attacks. With little pip squeaks like Javid and clowns like Swinson saying they won't allow a vote, it is plain to see independence is inevitable.
PS: I AM NOT A MEMBER OF THE SNP. I support independence for Scotland and have no party affiliations.
> @Quincel said: > > @HYUFD said: > > Andrea Leadsom on Marr says she will talk to all parties but rules out a formal alliance > > I really don't know why we push people to confirm their post-election stances so early, given how much is unknown. At this stage we could have different leaders of Con/Lab/LD by the next election, we have no idea what their Brexit stance would be or what compromise stance they might be willing to accept. And we have no idea what the balance of MPs in the Commons would be. So how can anyone rule out almost anything?
not quite true. I think we can be fairly confident of the Brexit stance of the Leader of the Lib Dems. Whether it's Jo or Ed. None of the many candidates in the Tory contest comes anywhere close to either of them as regards competence or coherence.
> @malcolmg said: > > @malcolmg said: > > > Jo Swinson acts as if her main opponent is Nicola Sturgeon, which makes her ill-suited to take on the mantle of leading the opposition in England. > > > > > > She is jealous of the attention Davidson gets and so is aping her, two attention seeking single policy useless twerps. > > > > SNP'er complaining about single policy...... > > You don't see the SNP bleating every day about independence, Tories and Lib Dems manage that as they are fixated. SNP are getting on with trying to save the country from the ravages of the Westminster cartel. Add limp Labour, given SNP just keep on getting more popular after more than 12 years in power,and it easy to see why the unionists are suffering panic attacks. With little pip squeaks like Javid and clowns like Swinson saying they won't allow a vote, it is plain to see independence is inevitable. > > PS: I AM NOT A MEMBER OF THE SNP. I support independence for Scotland and have no party affiliations.
In 2015 the SNP reached 50% of the vote at the general election in Scotland, in 2017 they declined to 37%, a total they virtually matched with the 38% they got in the European elections the week before last.
So the SNP are not getting more popular, they actually peaked in 2015 and have declined ever since
Comments
Whoever wins and however Brexit is resolved the country looks like it's screwed for the foreseeable future
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/06/01/exclusivesajid-javid-suggests-could-scrap-top-rate-income-tax/
He also said in answer to the question whether he would be prepared to share intelligence with a Corbyn government '"I would have to know him, I would have to meet."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48487973
> Here's one of Labour's problems. The latte-sipping hand-wringing crowd now make up a bigger slice of our voters than ever before. The thing is that for many such voters the same virtue signalling can be achieved whether they vote Labour, LibDem or Green. At the moment the two other flavours of right-onism are more appealing.
>
>
>
> Meanwhile, we've ignored our working class base and allowed these voters to drift away to populists and abstention.
>
>
>
> Basically, we are well on the road to being fecked.
>
> There is a geographical split as well. Ken Livingstone said a factor in the 1992 result was the leadership was out of touch with the aspirations of London voters. Now the leadership is almost entirely London MPs.
Livingstone was wrong in that Labour did pretty well in London in 1992.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48487984
Never mind that Brexit or Iraq or the dangerous dogs act has turned out to be more complicated than we thought when we planned it on the back of a beer mat, we must force it through at any cost rather than admit weakness.
So fuck business, we've had enough of experts and we certainly are not taking Opposition amendments.
> Andrea Leadsom on Marr says she will talk to all parties but rules out a formal alliance
She disappointed me. Just platitudes and uncnvincing
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48488732
> > @rottenborough said:
> > We could end up with Gove having most MPs votes in final round, but Boris going with him to the membership and the latter winning a landslide.
> >
> > Tory Party would then be like Lab - saddled by membership with someone they don't want.
>
> Worse than that. The COUNTRY would be saddled with someone they don't want.
Boo bloody hoo. Remind me - what say did the country have when Labour swappped out Prime Minister Wilson for Prime Minister Callaghan? Or Prime Minister Blair for Prime Minister Brown?
> A band one of whose best songs is called 'Kill Tory Scum' to play Glastonbury
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48488732
You really think it's one of their best?
> > @OldKingCole said:
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > @OldKingCole said:
> > > > Ipsos-Mori rang me the other day. However when they discovered my age and where I lived they didn't want my opinion!
> > >
> > > Really. How wrong can they be
> >
> > Er...... thank you.
> >
> > I think!
>
> I am a similar age and do not see how a polling company does not want your opinion
It is probably a case of the survey being conducted having already met its target in terms of his demographic group.
> Trump says Nigel Farage should be involved in UK Brexit negotiations and the UK should be prepared to go to No Deal.
>
> He also said in answer to the question whether he would be prepared to share intelligence with a Corbyn government '"I would have to know him, I would have to meet."
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48487973
No chance. Jeremy will be washing his hair. And rightly so.
> > @DecrepitJohnL said:
> > Here's one of Labour's problems. The latte-sipping hand-wringing crowd now make up a bigger slice of our voters than ever before. The thing is that for many such voters the same virtue signalling can be achieved whether they vote Labour, LibDem or Green. At the moment the two other flavours of right-onism are more appealing.
> >
> >
> >
> > Meanwhile, we've ignored our working class base and allowed these voters to drift away to populists and abstention.
> >
> >
> >
> > Basically, we are well on the road to being fecked.
> >
> > There is a geographical split as well. Ken Livingstone said a factor in the 1992 result was the leadership was out of touch with the aspirations of London voters. Now the leadership is almost entirely London MPs.
>
> Livingstone was wrong in that Labour did pretty well in London in 1992.
Labour actually did well in middle class areas of London in 1992 it was the likes of Edmonton, Erith, Hayes and Mitcham where they did worse than in 1979.
> Andrea Leadsom very unconvincing on Marr
So situation normal then.
> Trump says Nigel Farage should be involved in UK Brexit negotiations and the UK should be prepared to go to No Deal.
>
> He also said in answer to the question whether he would be prepared to share intelligence with a Corbyn government '"I would have to know him, I would have to meet."
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48487973
Trump is so divisive I doubt Boris is overjoyed at his endorsement and the Country even less so over Farage. As I said earlier it is interesting Farage is starring to attack Boris. Obviously worried Boris could displace him as top dog
https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson_MP/status/1134398873328398336
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > Andrea Leadsom very unconvincing on Marr
>
>
> So situation normal then.
Yes
> Javid says 'he cannot envisage circumstances' in which he would extend beyond October
Silly of the Saj. He's categorically ruled out a GE and a 2nd Ref. Therefore the circumstances in which he would need to extend boil down to (i) he fails to get the EU to drop the backstop and (ii) he fails to get No Deal through a parliament that is dead set against it.
Now I can envisage these circumstances quite easily. I think we all can.
So what does it say about the man bidding to become our first Muslim PM that he can't?
Is he thick? Or is he mendacious?
> > @HYUFD said:
> > Javid says 'he cannot envisage circumstances' in which he would extend beyond October
>
> Silly of the Saj. He's categorically ruled out a GE and a 2nd Ref. Therefore the circumstances in which he would need to extend boil down to (i) he fails to get the EU to drop the backstop and (ii) he fails to get No Deal through a parliament that is dead set against it.
>
> Now I can envisage these circumstances quite easily. I think we all can.
>
> So what does it say about the man bidding to become our first Muslim PM that he can't?
>
> Is he thick? Or is he mendacious?
He is a politician for goodness sake
It says Vote Lib Dem
> Is he thick? Or is he mendacious?
Mendacious.
They're all mendacious. Because otherwise they'd have no chance of getting elected. Because their members are thick.
> Sam Gyimah. Our party has become a joke. Let's get on with the first few rounds and eliminate all of the losers.
You could start by "eliminating" yourself Sam...
It's time to cut taxes.
> > @HYUFD said:
> > Trump says Nigel Farage should be involved in UK Brexit negotiations and the UK should be prepared to go to No Deal.
> >
> > He also said in answer to the question whether he would be prepared to share intelligence with a Corbyn government '"I would have to know him, I would have to meet."
> >
> > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48487973
>
> Trump is so divisive I doubt Boris is overjoyed at his endorsement and the Country even less so over Farage. As I said earlier it is interesting Farage is starring to attack Boris. Obviously worried Boris could displace him as top dog
Farage and Boris were the key figures in the Leave campaign but it was probably Boris that got Leave to 52%, Farage represents the Brexit hardcore
> I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared.
lol, that ship sailed years ago.
> https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1135118763878211584
>
>
>
> It says Vote Lib Dem
"A pamphlet". Lol.
"How to cope with Brexit in ten easy steps".
> Javid says 'he cannot envisage circumstances' in which he would extend beyond October
>
> This is what is wrong with British politics and has been for at least the past two decades.
>
> Never mind that Brexit or Iraq or the dangerous dogs act has turned out to be more complicated than we thought when we planned it on the back of a beer mat, we must force it through at any cost rather than admit weakness.
>
> So fuck business, we've had enough of experts and we certainly are not taking Opposition amendments.
Maybe but until Brexit is implemented the Brexit Party surge will only continue
> I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared.
>
> It's time to cut taxes.
Javid today said he might scrap the top income tax rate, Raab has said he would cut it to 35%
>
> Boo bloody hoo. Remind me - what say did the country have when Labour swappped out Prime Minister Wilson for Prime Minister Callaghan? Or Prime Minister Blair for Prime Minister Brown?
That is a point. But this is twice for heaven's sake. Without precedent as far as I can recall.
Last PM with any sort of personal mandate was Call Me Dave.
> I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared.
>
> It's time to cut taxes.
Free market economics ended when the banks were bailed out.
The trillion quid of government borrowing then buried it.
We now live in the corporate state.
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @DecrepitJohnL said:
> > > Here's one of Labour's problems. The latte-sipping hand-wringing crowd now make up a bigger slice of our voters than ever before. The thing is that for many such voters the same virtue signalling can be achieved whether they vote Labour, LibDem or Green. At the moment the two other flavours of right-onism are more appealing.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Meanwhile, we've ignored our working class base and allowed these voters to drift away to populists and abstention.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Basically, we are well on the road to being fecked.
> > >
> > > There is a geographical split as well. Ken Livingstone said a factor in the 1992 result was the leadership was out of touch with the aspirations of London voters. Now the leadership is almost entirely London MPs.
> >
> > Livingstone was wrong in that Labour did pretty well in London in 1992.
>
> Labour actually did well in middle class areas of London in 1992 it was the likes of Edmonton, Erith, Hayes and Mitcham where they did worse than in 1979.
Indeed - but even in those seats there were big swings to Labour compared with 1987. Had the London results been typical, Kinnock would have entered No 10.
> > @DecrepitJohnL said:
> > Javid says 'he cannot envisage circumstances' in which he would extend beyond October
> >
> > This is what is wrong with British politics and has been for at least the past two decades.
> >
> > Never mind that Brexit or Iraq or the dangerous dogs act has turned out to be more complicated than we thought when we planned it on the back of a beer mat, we must force it through at any cost rather than admit weakness.
> >
> > So fuck business, we've had enough of experts and we certainly are not taking Opposition amendments.
>
> Maybe but until Brexit is implemented the Brexit Party surge will only continue
If Javid cannot envisage circumstances in which he would extend, then he clearly hasn't spent a moment thinking about the problem.
Pathetic.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > Andrea Leadsom very unconvincing on Marr
>
> So situation normal then.
But if elected she will be sending us all a pamphlet on No Deal. That is not something I've heard anyone else promise. Although I suppose they all will now.
> > @Theuniondivvie said:
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > Andrea Leadsom very unconvincing on Marr
> >
> > So situation normal then.
>
> But if elected she will be sending us all a pamphlet on No Deal. That is not something I've heard anyone else promise. Although I suppose they all will now.
No - not all of us. Just businesses
> >
> He is a politician for goodness sake
Well OK. But I would like the bar to be raised a little. Trouble is, Trump has dropped it to ankle height. That, for me, is his legacy and it is a very powerful one, albeit wholly malign.
> I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared.
>
--------------
It's hard to imagine a Conservative leader saying these words now:
"We are one world. None of us can opt out of that world and every one of us is affected by the decisions and policies of our neighbours.
"Yet there are those in our society who would cut us off from all our links: who would have us cower in isolation from our neighbours in Europe, from our allies in North America and from all those institutions which help to support the free world. We reject totally that attitude which would diminish Britain.
"The free world—yes, if one world is to have any real meaning, it must find it in freedom. All our economic interests, all our moral and spiritual needs reach out for freedom. We are a sea-faring race, a race of merchants and empire builders. It is not our destiny to huddle together in these islands, protecting ourselves from the winds of change and competition. And tied to our merchant venturing, has been our spirit—the free spirit—which has so marked our nation down the centuries."
> > @Scott_P said:
> > https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1135118763878211584
> >
> >
> >
> > It says Vote Lib Dem
>
> "A pamphlet". Lol.
>
> "How to cope with Brexit in ten easy steps".
>
>
There's probably still a stockpile of 'Protect and Survive' pamphlets she could use.
> And having seen Jo Swinson's interview I'm not convinced she's the right leader for the Lib Dems. I can see why some people wouldn't like her, she came across as being a bit frustrated and confrontational, even if her message was clear. Not that Ed Davey would necessarily be any better
They've a grand total of eleven MPs, and two of those are the outgoing leader and his immediate predecessor. There's not exactly a wealth of choice, unless they try to find someone who isn't actually in the Commons, which might be considered brave in the Sir Humphrey sense of the word.
> https://twitter.com/joswinson/status/1135132911378870272
I think Jo and Scott have spectacularly missed the point being made.
> https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1134966028881027072
>
>
>
> Is he actually running?
Yes, at least officially. He's not made much of an impact it would be fair to say.
He's still 'Below the Clinton Line', which is my test for candidate officially running but who Betfair considers less likely to be nominated than Hillary Clinton.
> > @MaxPB said:
> > I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared.
> >
> --------------
>
> It's hard to imagine a Conservative leader saying these words now:
>
> "We are one world. None of us can opt out of that world and every one of us is affected by the decisions and policies of our neighbours.
>
> "Yet there are those in our society who would cut us off from all our links: who would have us cower in isolation from our neighbours in Europe, from our allies in North America and from all those institutions which help to support the free world. We reject totally that attitude which would diminish Britain.
>
> "The free world—yes, if one world is to have any real meaning, it must find it in freedom. All our economic interests, all our moral and spiritual needs reach out for freedom. We are a sea-faring race, a race of merchants and empire builders. It is not our destiny to huddle together in these islands, protecting ourselves from the winds of change and competition. And tied to our merchant venturing, has been our spirit—the free spirit—which has so marked our nation down the centuries."
Actually Hannan and Boris would argue they voted for Brexit precisely to be global, free trading buccaneers again rather than tied into the protectionist and over regulatory EU
>
> No - not all of us. Just businesses
Ah OK. I read that it would be for "households and businesses". If it's just businesses that means I won't be getting one.
:-(
> > @HYUFD said:
> > Trump says Nigel Farage should be involved in UK Brexit negotiations and the UK should be prepared to go to No Deal.
> >
> > He also said in answer to the question whether he would be prepared to share intelligence with a Corbyn government '"I would have to know him, I would have to meet."
> >
> > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48487973
>
> No chance. Jeremy will be washing his hair. And rightly so.
More likely Jezbollah will be helping out his mates in Venezuela.
> https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1134966028881027072
>
>
>
> Is he actually running?
On the basis of that reception I think it is more likely he runs on a centrist third party ticket with Kasich if it ends up a Trump v Sanders race than has any real shot at the Democratic nomination
> https://twitter.com/joswinson/status/1135132911378870272
You don't get insurance when you choose to burn down your house.
It was "Vote for me, I am not BoZo"
No comment needed
> > @MaxPB said:
>
> > I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared.
>
> >
>
> > It's time to cut taxes.
>
>
>
> Free market economics ended when the banks were bailed out.
>
>
>
> The trillion quid of government borrowing then buried it.
>
>
>
> We now live in the corporate state.
>
> Yes, we should have let RBS and HBOS go to the wall and stood behind depositors. Completely agree with that.
The only economic discussion now is how the places at the trough are arranged.
And I don't see a way to change things.
> > @MaxPB said:
> > I just hope one of these candidates, any of them, stand up for capitalism and free market economics. We're supposed to be the party of enterprise and that seems to have just disappeared.
> >
> > It's time to cut taxes.
>
> Free market economics ended when the banks were bailed out.
>
> The trillion quid of government borrowing then buried it.
>
> We now live in the corporate state.
Though of course the US let Lehmans go bust without a bail out
> Actually Hannan and Boris would argue they voted for Brexit precisely to be global, free trading buccaneers again rather than tied into the protectionist and over regulatory EU
Boris would say whatever worked best with the audience he was talking to. Hannan is one of the genuine Globalism In One Country enthusiasts, but there aren't a lot of them like him.
I mean, the other brexit advocates pay lip service to the idea of free trade, but once you get into an actual trade negotiation you'll see that they're the protectionists that you'd expect from the fact that they voted to leave their main free trade zone.
> > @Mauve said:
> > And having seen Jo Swinson's interview I'm not convinced she's the right leader for the Lib Dems. I can see why some people wouldn't like her, she came across as being a bit frustrated and confrontational, even if her message was clear. Not that Ed Davey would necessarily be any better
>
> They've a grand total of eleven MPs, and two of those are the outgoing leader and his immediate predecessor. There's not exactly a wealth of choice, unless they try to find someone who isn't actually in the Commons, which might be considered brave in the Sir Humphrey sense of the word.
Jo Grimond was selected from a parliamentary party of six MPs , Thorpe from a party of twelve and Steel was elected by a group of thirteen. They all had a lot more gravitas than Swinson - as did the other leadership runners - Pardoe, Lubbock and Hooson.
> Wonder how many PMs we might have this year. Certainly 2. Easily 3. Possibly 4.
4?
May
Then a no-dealer who is no-confidenced when the Commons panics in October
Temporary national unity PM to request/revoke A50.
Fourth PM after early December GE?
Or do you have another scenario in mind?
> > @rottenborough said:
>
> > https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1134966028881027072
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Is he actually running?
>
>
>
> On the basis of that reception I think it is more likely he runs on a centrist third party ticket with Kasich if it ends up a Trump v Sanders race than has any real shot at the Democratic nomination
>
> Kasich said he was not running the other day.
No, Kasich left a 2020 run very much on the table last week even while he recognised it would be a tough battle
https://twitter.com/JohnKasich/status/1134574150809526272?s=20
The unapologetic Never Trumper says “there's no path” for him to run in 2020.
Vanity Fair.
> Protestor snatches microphone from Kamala Harris
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-484879
Was it a protest about how dull she is ?
> Ken Clarke will vote for Rory reports OrderOrder.
https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1135086371616579584
> JOHN KASICH THROWS IN THE TOWEL, ADMITS IT’S TRUMP’S PARTY NOW
>
> The unapologetic Never Trumper says “there's no path” for him to run in 2020.
>
> Vanity Fair.
Not anywhere in that article did Kasich say he would not be running in 2020, he said it would be difficult to win the GOP primaries, nothing more.
As the tweet below from Kasich posted after that article was published confirms
https://twitter.com/JohnKasich/status/1134574150809526272?s=20.
As I originally posted Kasich is far more likely to run on an independent third party ticket with Hickenlooper than to beat Trump for the GOP nomination
> Jo Swinson acts as if her main opponent is Nicola Sturgeon, which makes her ill-suited to take on the mantle of leading the opposition in England.
>
> She is jealous of the attention Davidson gets and so is aping her, two attention seeking single policy useless twerps.
SNP'er complaining about single policy......
> > @rottenborough said:
>
> > > @rottenborough said:
>
> >
>
> > > https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1134966028881027072
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Is he actually running?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On the basis of that reception I think it is more likely he runs on a centrist third party ticket with Kasich if it ends up a Trump v Sanders race than has any real shot at the Democratic nomination
>
> >
>
> > Kasich said he was not running the other day.
>
>
>
> No, Kasich left a 2020 run very much on the table yesterday
>
>
>
> https://twitter.com/JohnKasich/status/1134574150809526272
>
>
>
> Ok, thanks. Pretty sure I had read the opposite somewhere. Possibly just poor reporting.
I think it was more the fact Kasich recognised he would not beat Trump with Republican voters than he would not run at all, especially as running as an Independent remains viable and particularly in a Trump v Sanders contest
> Ken Clarke will vote for Rory reports OrderOrder.
He has two heavyweight endorsement now - Clarke and Soames. Something happening?
> Jo Swinson acts as if her main opponent is Nicola Sturgeon, which makes her ill-suited to take on the mantle of leading the opposition in England.
Swinson wants to take on both Sturgeon and Farage
Look at the utter nonsense on trade that is being spoken by most of the contenders for leadership. It should disbar them from even being a candidate for MP let alone PM.
> Jo Swinson acts as if her main opponent is Nicola Sturgeon, which makes her ill-suited to take on the mantle of leading the opposition in England.
Like most remaining Scotch LDs Swinson probably has Unionism has her defining political identity, hence the endless Sturgeonating. Since she seems to live mainly in England, it's rather odd that she hasn't caught up with the Union being quite far down the list of priorities for most English folk.
PS: I AM NOT A MEMBER OF THE SNP. I support independence for Scotland and have no party affiliations.
> > @HYUFD said:
> > Andrea Leadsom on Marr says she will talk to all parties but rules out a formal alliance
>
> I really don't know why we push people to confirm their post-election stances so early, given how much is unknown. At this stage we could have different leaders of Con/Lab/LD by the next election, we have no idea what their Brexit stance would be or what compromise stance they might be willing to accept. And we have no idea what the balance of MPs in the Commons would be. So how can anyone rule out almost anything?
not quite true. I think we can be fairly confident of the Brexit stance of the Leader of the Lib Dems. Whether it's Jo or Ed.
None of the many candidates in the Tory contest comes anywhere close to either of them as regards competence or coherence.
> > @malcolmg said:
>
> > Jo Swinson acts as if her main opponent is Nicola Sturgeon, which makes her ill-suited to take on the mantle of leading the opposition in England.
>
> >
>
> > She is jealous of the attention Davidson gets and so is aping her, two attention seeking single policy useless twerps.
>
>
>
> SNP'er complaining about single policy......
>
> You don't see the SNP bleating every day about independence, Tories and Lib Dems manage that as they are fixated. SNP are getting on with trying to save the country from the ravages of the Westminster cartel. Add limp Labour, given SNP just keep on getting more popular after more than 12 years in power,and it easy to see why the unionists are suffering panic attacks. With little pip squeaks like Javid and clowns like Swinson saying they won't allow a vote, it is plain to see independence is inevitable.
>
> PS: I AM NOT A MEMBER OF THE SNP. I support independence for Scotland and have no party affiliations.
In 2015 the SNP reached 50% of the vote at the general election in Scotland, in 2017 they declined to 37%, a total they virtually matched with the 38% they got in the European elections the week before last.
So the SNP are not getting more popular, they actually peaked in 2015 and have declined ever since