> @williamglenn said: > Gove's main message: "If we don't deliver Brexit before the next election, then Jeremy Corbyn could be in Downing Street." > > None of them seem to know what to do about an environment where the Lib Dems and the Brexit Party are the real opposition. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqRbwxF4JJU
Hi> @williamglenn said: > Gove's main message: "If we don't deliver Brexit before the next election, then Jeremy Corbyn could be in Downing Street." > > None of them seem to know what to do about an environment where the Lib Dems and the Brexit Party are the real opposition
Yeah things are moving on - the Tories themselves are becoming irrelevant never mind Corbyn
> @Cyclefree said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > All is well in the real world. > > > > Not like this board which is crawling with racists. > > I'm not sure if that accusation is levelled at me. But if so I reject it. > > Anyway, stuff to do. If anyone has any good tips for the Derby send them my way! My last outing at Sandown was not very profitable so I'm hoping for better today.
To be absolutely clear, that was not directed at you. But three openly racist people on the previous thread.
> @MarqueeMark said: > I'm putting many of the undeclared in the Boris camp..... They'll tell their local associations who they voted for once the voting to get to the final two is over.
A mistake I'd say. All the decent cabinet posts will be spoken for by the early backers. What's more that isn't borne out by those who claim to want to hear from the candidates before declaring. People like Alan Duncan who specificlly WONT vote Boris.
Oh dear! My gardening is an extension of my mothering - now that mine are mostly grown and don't seem to need me much.
All that nurturing and patience needs an outlet and plants, unlike children, don't answer back.
Virtually every plant Mrs J touches dies as she is exactly the opposite of green-fingered. If I had a great garden I'd banish her from it.
(Last year I planted some sunflower seeds with the little 'un. We went away for the weekend, only to come back to find that she'd done some 'weeding' and pulled up the inch-high sunflower stems along with a few weeds. Cue a journey to a garden centre to buy some new ones ...)
> @Roger said: > A mistake I'd say. All the decent cabinet posts will be spoken for by the early backers. What's more that isn't borne out by those who claim to want to hear from the candidates before declaring. People like Alan Duncan who specificlly WONT vote Boris.
I don't think cabinet posts are the currency they used to be now that ambitious politicians feel the need to resign them as soon as the PM's EU plans make contact with reality.
> @JosiasJessop said: > Its a non-starter because the northern half isn't deemed to be important by the HS2 cheerleaders. > > > > And I'm overtly saying that HS2 should be cancelled. > > > > If construction had begun years ago, in particular in the North, then there would be much less chance of that now happening. > > I'm an HS2 cheerleader, and I think the northern half is very important, and have argued as such. So you are wrong. > > But if we had 'started in the north' then you'd just be arguing that it's a bloody stupid thing to be doing, given the capacity constraints are mainly in the south. > > Also, if HS2 is cancelled, good luck in getting your own favoured infrastructure improvements though ...
There's nothing on my list of infrastructure improvements - this government has been pretty good at doing them.
The important thing about getting HS2 started is that you would then get some 'buy-in' from people.
And this is particularly so in the North - if they saw track actually being put down then they would believe that HS2 would actually happen and that they might benefit from it.
Instead it looks like a project which benefits London consultants and lawyers and which if ever built would benefit Londoners with expense accounts.
> > There was a report that Boris was poised to have a bunch of endorsements on Monday and had been telling people to hold back so as to make more impact. Like all statements saying "I will do X very soon" (cf. Farage, who is always about to attrract several MPs), it should be taken with a lump of salt, but worth waiting for Monday before laying Boris heavily.
> >
> > In the absence of a serious Remain candidate, the "not as Leave as Raab" vote seems to be poised between Hunt (who seemed moderate but has made strenuous efforts to appear less so), Gove (whose intellectual depth makes him simply seem less likely to be extreme, though he does have a record of plunging deep in one direction or another) and Boris (because Boris doesn't really do zealotry). By contrast, Raab seems to be cornering most of the hard Leave support so far.
>
> Yes Raab also laid out a big tax and spending cuts plan yesterday to add to his firm hard Brexit agenda.
> @another_richard said: > > @Theuniondivvie said: > > > @williamglenn said: > > > Gove has a website: https://gove2019.com/ > > > > > > You just know that hours were spent artfully choosing that cheapo manofthepeople ballpoint rather than some lacquered Montblanc jobbie. > > So what does the jacket but no tie imagery supposed to represent ?
It's an uphill struggle projecting an image if you look like Gove, but I'm guessing popping into the office on a Saturday to do some extra important stuff after dropping the kids off at rugby practice. Should probably be a blue chambray shirt to really nail it. Blair was pretty good at that kind of thing.
> @Charles said: > He said grey welfare shouldn’t be immune
Thay sounds unwise. What do we know about the people who have entryized the Conservative Party? It's probably not safe to assume they're conservatives.
> A mistake I'd say. All the decent cabinet posts will be spoken for by the early backers. What's more that isn't borne out by those who claim to want to hear from the candidates before declaring. People like Alan Duncan who specificlly WONT vote Boris.
I don't think cabinet posts are the currency they used to be now that ambitious politicians feel the need to resign them as soon as the PM's EU plans make contact with reality.
So that’s how we get the most talented in the cabinet then by rewarding those with the vision to back you with a seat at the table.
> @JosiasJessop said: > > @Pulpstar said: > > > Absolutely no consensus for HS2 has been achieved nationally I expect given most people don't actually live in London, or one of the other big cities served. Certainly not up where I am, indeed the Sheffield link is the sort of afterthought that politicians based in the capital whose entire view of Yorkshire consists of Leeds would come up with. I expect sentiment is similar in the rural Tory constituencies in the south. > > > This is low hanging fruit for both the Tory leadership contenders and the Brexit party. > > > > The preference for a station in the centre of Sheffield rather than at Meadowhall is another example of that. > > > > I cam across this justification for HS2 recently: > > > > ' Building Northern Powerhouse Rail without HS2 would be like constructing the M62 without the M1. ' > > > > http://www.cityam.com/277940/debate-time-accept-sunk-cost-and-scrap-hs2 > > > > I suspect there would be microscopically few users of the M62 who think its only justification is to link to the M1. > > I don't have time to read that, but are they saying it's the 'only' justification, or is that your interpretation? > > It's hard to argue that the M62 isn't part of a wider motorway 'network', and its utilisation and usefulness without that supporting network would be very different. Likewise, ideally HS2 and NPR should be planned as a network designed to get the best out of each other.
You'll have to read it and draw your own conclusions.
But I'd say there is a feeling that transport infrastructure is viewed as a London centred issue with improvements in the North viewed as an appendage of that rather than as being worthwhile on purely local merits.
Mr. 43, whether that's accurate or not, it's more likely to help Raab than hinder him to have EU types say they don't like him.
It will just make his failure quicker and more damaging for the country. Depends if the Tories just want someone as PM who is good at insulting our neighbours or one who has some idea (a plan is too much to expect) about what to do next. Do they care about party only or the country?
You have to ask that question, themselves and party every time, look at their actions.
> @Charles said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > > @NickPalmer said: > > > > There was a report that Boris was poised to have a bunch of endorsements on Monday and had been telling people to hold back so as to make more impact. Like all statements saying "I will do X very soon" (cf. Farage, who is always about to attrract several MPs), it should be taken with a lump of salt, but worth waiting for Monday before laying Boris heavily. > > > > > > > > In the absence of a serious Remain candidate, the "not as Leave as Raab" vote seems to be poised between Hunt (who seemed moderate but has made strenuous efforts to appear less so), Gove (whose intellectual depth makes him simply seem less likely to be extreme, though he does have a record of plunging deep in one direction or another) and Boris (because Boris doesn't really do zealotry). By contrast, Raab seems to be cornering most of the hard Leave support so far. > > > > > > Yes Raab also laid out a big tax and spending cuts plan yesterday to add to his firm hard Brexit agenda. > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1134422322667036673 > > > > > > > > Raab is currently the main candidate of the hard right in the party but if Baker declares he could challenge him for that position > > > > Has he said which cuts he wants to be 'brave' about ? > > > > Now some cuts - HS2 and Overseas Aid are 'fish in a barrel' stuff. > > > > But is he suggesting ending triple lock pensions for example ? > > He said grey welfare shouldn’t be immune
Which is a wonderfully vague suggestion.
Yet he managed to be very specific about his tax cut plans.
> @malcolmg said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > All is well in the real world. > > > > Not like this board which is crawling with racists. > > Has the odd nutjob zealot for certain. Get away out with your sandwich board and give us peace
lol
malc take that burning cross off your neighbors lawn youve been rumbled
> @malcolmg said: > > @malcolmg said: > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > > > > All is well in the real world. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not like this board which is crawling with racists. > > > > > > Has the odd nutjob zealot for certain. Get away out with your sandwich board and give us peace > > > > lol > > > > malc take that burning cross off your neighbors lawn youve been rumbled > > Morning Alan, still chuckling from rewatching Mason Boyne. I will go soon and iron some sheets for later.
I was up in Scotland last weekend. Did a round trip of Fife. enjoyed St Andrews
> @Cyclefree said: > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true.
He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35%
> @ydoethur said: > Of the leading candidates only Gove would be credible. Hunt looks the part but seems an empty suit. Raab will be sure so probably be him. > > So what you're saying is that there is no credible candidate at all?
> @justin124 said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true. > > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35%
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @justin124 said: > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true. > > > > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35% > > 15% tax for most would be a winner
No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
> @Sunil_Prasannan said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > All is well in the real world. > > > > Not like this board which is crawling with racists. > > Islam is not a race.
In many contexts it's a magically accurate predictor of race, in the same way that first language is. As with language it is possible that our brains are specifically wired to acquire it from our parents at an early age (see under Chomsky, Noam). Believing it is therefore in most cases not a voluntary choice like, say, thinking that radiohead are good musicians or the LDs are a natural party of government. Indeed it's a difficult question whether being, say, muslim is any more a voluntary or alterable choice any more than being gay is. I don't therefore have much time for the "it's a belief, so we can point at them and laugh" school of thought.
> @malcolmg said: > > @malcolmg said: > > > > @malcolmg said: > > > > > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All is well in the real world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not like this board which is crawling with racists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Has the odd nutjob zealot for certain. Get away out with your sandwich board and give us peace > > > > > > > > > > > > lol > > > > > > > > > > > > malc take that burning cross off your neighbors lawn youve been rumbled > > > > > > Morning Alan, still chuckling from rewatching Mason Boyne. I will go soon and iron some sheets for later. > > > > I was up in Scotland last weekend. Did a round trip of Fife. enjoyed St Andrews > > It is very nice round that Fife coast, lovely small villages.
> No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
Do you have evidence that he is planning a genocide of millions?
Another in a long list of people who claim that they will emigrate if the wrong side wins a vote. Cf President Trump calling Meghan, Countess of Dumbarton, “nasty” for threatening to emigrate if Trump won.
> > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true.
> >
> > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35%
>
> 15% tax for most would be a winner
No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
You mean it won't help the "won't work" layabouts who sit scrounging on benefits as their existence. Labour, the party of scroungers.
> @Andrew said: > > @justin124 said: > > > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing. > > Do you have evidence that he is planning a genocide of millions? >
That is a non sequitur. As pointed out before, Arbeit Macht Frei appeared in 1933 at Dachau and elsewhere - long before the signs of any intent to commit genocide. I am inclined to believe he would welcome a 'slave labour' economy.
@Richard_Nabavi noted that the undeclared MPs are disproportionately from the non-headbanger crowd. That seems likely to be good for Messrs Gove, Hunt and Javid.
I though Javid was heading off rapidly towards head banger territory.
> @justin124 said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @justin124 said: > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true. > > > > > > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35% > > > > 15% tax for most would be a winner > > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
Low taxes help everyone and why on earth do you use that unacceptable last few words
> @justin124 said: > > @Andrew said: > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing. > > > > Do you have evidence that he is planning a genocide of millions? > > > > That is a non sequitur. As pointed out before, Arbeit Macht Frei appeared in 1933 at Dachau and elsewhere - long before the signs of any intent to commit genocide. I am inclined to believe he would welcome a 'slave labour' economy.
> @justin124 said: > > @Andrew said: > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing. > > > > Do you have evidence that he is planning a genocide of millions? > > > > That is a non sequitur. As pointed out before, Arbeit Macht Frei appeared in 1933 at Dachau and elsewhere - long before the signs of any intent to commit genocide. I am inclined to believe he would welcome a 'slave labour' economy.
> @justin124 said: > > @Andrew said: > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing. > > > > Do you have evidence that he is planning a genocide of millions? > > > > That is a non sequitur. As pointed out before, Arbeit Macht Frei appeared in 1933 at Dachau and elsewhere - long before the signs of any intent to commit genocide. I am inclined to believe he would welcome a 'slave labour' economy.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @justin124 said: > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true. > > > > > > > > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35% > > > > > > 15% tax for most would be a winner > > > > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing. > > Low taxes help everyone and why on earth do you use that unacceptable last few words > > Disgusting
Low taxes do not help everyone when accompanied by big spending cuts. Why not abolish Income Tax and get rid of all state benefits at the same time? That is clearly the direction favoured by this evil guy.
> @justin124 said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @justin124 said: > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true. > > > > > > > > > > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35% > > > > > > > > 15% tax for most would be a winner > > > > > > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing. > > > > Low taxes help everyone and why on earth do you use that unacceptable last few words > > > > Disgusting > > Low taxes do not help everyone when accompanied by big spending cuts. Why not abolish Income Tax and get rid of all state benefits at the same time? That is clearly the direction favoured by this evil guy.
You throw idiotic comments and brand people evil far too easily
Her base, ie her core vote, is max 15% of the population. Banging on saying No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No ad infinitum just makes her the Ian Paisley de nos jours.
How’s she going to attract the other 85% who are not flute fan Brit Nats with Union Jack underpants?
Very hard to disagree with this view of what the Trump endorsement means for Johnson:
Whether he wants to be or not, Johnson has gone from being the candidate who can reach into every part of England and Wales to one that can speak only to half of it. It underlines that the choice that the Conservatives are making is not to put the election winner of 2012 at their head, but to refight the 2017 election with a more charismatic figurehead and a more divisive Brexit offer, in the hope that they will get a better result.
> @SouthamObserver said: > Very hard to disagree with this view of what the Trump endorsement means for Johnson: > > Whether he wants to be or not, Johnson has gone from being the candidate who can reach into every part of England and Wales to one that can speak only to half of it. It underlines that the choice that the Conservatives are making is not to put the election winner of 2012 at their head, but to refight the 2017 election with a more charismatic figurehead and a more divisive Brexit offer, in the hope that they will get a better result. > > https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/06/donald-trumps-endorsement-underlines-there-no-way-back-boris-johnson > > Johnson is Corbyn's best hope. And vice versa, of course. > >
He might appeal to half of England and Wales, but what percentage of Scots will he appeal to? Vanishingly small. As Ruthie is well aware.
> @Roger said: > > @MarqueeMark said: > > I'm putting many of the undeclared in the Boris camp..... They'll tell their local associations who they voted for once the voting to get to the final two is over. > > A mistake I'd say. All the decent cabinet posts will be spoken for by the early backers. What's more that isn't borne out by those who claim to want to hear from the candidates before declaring. People like Alan Duncan who specificlly WONT vote Boris.
I'm sure they will have told Boris. His approach so far - keep quiet, let his opponents make all the noise - suggests a man confident he has enough pledges to get to the membership.
Be interesting if say Penny Mordaunt decides not to run, but will be happy to trade keeping the job of Defence Secretary if she advises her supporters to back Boris. It might be those like the Moggster who don't run, who get the plum Cabinet roles from Boris.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @justin124 said: > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > > > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true. > > > > > > > > > > > > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35% > > > > > > > > > > 15% tax for most would be a winner > > > > > > > > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing. > > > > > > Low taxes help everyone and why on earth do you use that unacceptable last few words > > > > > > Disgusting > > > > Low taxes do not help everyone when accompanied by big spending cuts. Why not abolish Income Tax and get rid of all state benefits at the same time? That is clearly the direction favoured by this evil guy. > > You throw idiotic comments and brand people evil far too easily
I am well versed in both economics and 20th century history - particularly with regard to the Third Reich. Those who always equate 'Arbeit Macht Frei' with genocide just reveal their ignorance of when and where the term was first used. Raab would clearly be happy to dismantle the Welfare State in all but name - whilst slashing taxes for the benefit of Alan Bstard types such as himself. I find that evil.
> That's before she realised her voting base was the "No at any cost crowd"
Her base, ie her core vote, is max 15% of the population. Banging on saying No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No ad infinitum just makes her the Ian Paisley de nos jours.
How’s she going to attract the other 85% who are not flute fan Brit Nats with Union Jack underpants?
I estimate the No at any cost grouping to be 35% but she can't capture all of them at a regular election due to, you know, being a Tory.
But the absolute max a Yes vote could ever get at an Indy Ref would be 65%.
> @SouthamObserver said: > Very hard to disagree with this view of what the Trump endorsement means for Johnson: > > Whether he wants to be or not, Johnson has gone from being the candidate who can reach into every part of England and Wales to one that can speak only to half of it. It underlines that the choice that the Conservatives are making is not to put the election winner of 2012 at their head, but to refight the 2017 election with a more charismatic figurehead and a more divisive Brexit offer, in the hope that they will get a better result. > > https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/06/donald-trumps-endorsement-underlines-there-no-way-back-boris-johnson > > Johnson is Corbyn's best hope. And vice versa, of course. > >
Opinion and polling seems to confirm that sadly there is no middle way and both extremes of the brexit debate are in a fight to the death, as our Country endures international humililation.
It does look like Boris may well win and will no doubt empower the DUP, Farage and Trump in the battle and for most of us there is little we can do but watch in horror as both sides enter an even worse and malevolent period
The only thing I can do is not vote Boris in the member's vote
> @justin124 said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @justin124 said: > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > > > > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35% > > > > > > > > > > > > 15% tax for most would be a winner > > > > > > > > > > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing. > > > > > > > > Low taxes help everyone and why on earth do you use that unacceptable last few words > > > > > > > > Disgusting > > > > > > Low taxes do not help everyone when accompanied by big spending cuts. Why not abolish Income Tax and get rid of all state benefits at the same time? That is clearly the direction favoured by this evil guy. > > > > You throw idiotic comments and brand people evil far too easily > > I am well versed in both economics and 20th century history - particularly with regard to the Third Reich. Those who always equate 'Arbeit Macht Frei' with genocide just reveal their ignorance of when and where the term was first used. > Raab would clearly be happy to dismantle the Welfare State in all but name - whilst slashing taxes for the benefit of Alan Bstard types such as himself. I find that evil.
> > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true.
> >
> > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35%
>
> 15% tax for most would be a winner
No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
Fuck off back your hating unmarried couples and calling children bastards (and no doubt bitches depending on sex) you reprehensible excuse for a human being.
> @StuartDickson said: > > @SouthamObserver said: > > Very hard to disagree with this view of what the Trump endorsement means for Johnson: > > > > Whether he wants to be or not, Johnson has gone from being the candidate who can reach into every part of England and Wales to one that can speak only to half of it. It underlines that the choice that the Conservatives are making is not to put the election winner of 2012 at their head, but to refight the 2017 election with a more charismatic figurehead and a more divisive Brexit offer, in the hope that they will get a better result. > > > > https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/06/donald-trumps-endorsement-underlines-there-no-way-back-boris-johnson > > > > Johnson is Corbyn's best hope. And vice versa, of course. > > > > > > He might appeal to half of England and Wales, but what percentage of Scots will he appeal to? Vanishingly small. As Ruthie is well aware. >
I doubt it’s half of Wales or England either, these days.
I am well versed in both economics and 20th century history - particularly with regard to the Third Reich. Those who always equate 'Arbeit Macht Frei' with genocide just reveal their ignorance of when and where the term was first used.
Afaicr Rory's thesis (handily supported by a BBC documentary) during the indy referendum was that the borders are a kind of middle land, and the division between Scotland & England was an artificial construct of the Romans further whipped up by Scottish nationalism. Perhaps he'll support indy for Middleland so he won't have to emigrate, a happy land of cheery yokels knuckling their brows to their betweeded obliging nobility.
There's some evidence that Rory isn't a complete aresehole, but I did like this tweet.
> @matt said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true. > > > > > > > > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35% > > > > > > 15% tax for most would be a winner > > > > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing. > > Fuck off back your hating unmarried couples and calling children bastards (and no doubt bitches depending on sex) you reprehensible excuse for a human being.
Flattery will get you nowhere. I have to say though that such comments from such obvious Riff Raff as yourself should be taken as a compliment.I happily do so.
It's feisty in here today. It's like the Mighty Fine in Portsmouth on a Forces Only night. Except there isn't a stripper who'll spit in your mouth for a fiver.
> Its a non-starter because the northern half isn't deemed to be important by the HS2 cheerleaders.
>
>
>
> And I'm overtly saying that HS2 should be cancelled.
>
>
>
> If construction had begun years ago, in particular in the North, then there would be much less chance of that now happening.
>
> I'm an HS2 cheerleader, and I think the northern half is very important, and have argued as such. So you are wrong.
>
> But if we had 'started in the north' then you'd just be arguing that it's a bloody stupid thing to be doing, given the capacity constraints are mainly in the south.
>
> Also, if HS2 is cancelled, good luck in getting your own favoured infrastructure improvements though ...
There's nothing on my list of infrastructure improvements - this government has been pretty good at doing them.
The important thing about getting HS2 started is that you would then get some 'buy-in' from people.
And this is particularly so in the North - if they saw track actually being put down then they would believe that HS2 would actually happen and that they might benefit from it.
Instead it looks like a project which benefits London consultants and lawyers and which if ever built would benefit Londoners with expense accounts.
Permanent track is one of the last things to be completed; there will be three or four years of works before that phase occurs. Hence that's rather late to get them 'believing' it will happen.
The works timetabling will probably be such that early works on phase 2B to Leeds and Manchester will probably be underway before the track goes down on phase 1. Yet alone phase 2A.
Your last line is fairly ridiculous IMO, and shows an utter lack of understanding of the project. It can easily be argued that if it *doesn't* go ahead, the only people who could afford to use the current capacity-constrained network will be those on expense accounts ...
"It's feisty in here today. It's like the Mighty Fine in Portsmouth on a Forces Only night. Except there isn't a stripper who'll spit in your mouth for a fiver."
@JosiasJessop - If the powers that be said that HS2 would result in cheaper (in real terms) tickets between Leeds and Kings Cross, then I'd have a more favourable view of the project. My worry is that won't happen because there is a danger that HS2 could become another M6 Toll.
I am well versed in both economics and 20th century history - particularly with regard to the Third Reich. Those who always equate 'Arbeit Macht Frei' with genocide just reveal their ignorance of when and where the term was first used. (Snip)
Like it or not, that's exactly what the term is now equated with. The deeper history of the phrase is pretty irrelevant.
It's like people arguing that displaying the swastika is fine because it was used in other cultures for thousands of years.
@JosiasJessop - If the powers that be said that HS2 would result in cheaper (in real terms) tickets between Leeds and Kings Cross, then I'd have a more favourable view of the project. My worry is that won't happen because there is a danger that HS2 could become another M6 Toll.
That's a fair comment, and a reasonable worry.
However, if HS2 doesn't go ahead, and the current routes between your example of Leeds and Kings Cross become more capacity constrained (*), then do you think that ticket prices would remain the same or go up ?
Increasing prices is an easy way of managing an over-subscribed resource ...
> @JosiasJessop said: > I am well versed in both economics and 20th century history - particularly with regard to the Third Reich. Those who always equate 'Arbeit Macht Frei' with genocide just reveal their ignorance of when and where the term was first used. > (Snip) > > Like it or not, that's exactly what the term is now equated with. The deeper history of the phrase is pretty irrelevant. > > It's like people arguing that displaying the swastika is fine because it was used in other cultures for thousands of years.
That depends on the context. When the user makes it clear that he is not alluding to genocide but the much earlier promotion of programmes to deal with unemployment, the message should be obvious.
> @JosiasJessop said: > @JosiasJessop - If the powers that be said that HS2 would result in cheaper (in real terms) tickets between Leeds and Kings Cross, then I'd have a more favourable view of the project. My worry is that won't happen because there is a danger that HS2 could become another M6 Toll. > > That's a fair comment, and a reasonable worry. > > However, if HS2 doesn't go ahead, and the current routes between your example of Leeds and Kings Cross become more capacity constrained (*), then do you think that ticket prices would remain the same or go up ? > > Increasing prices is an easy way of managing an over-subscribed resource ... > > (*) I believe they're already fairly constrained.
Isn't the idea also to expand the radius of reasonable commuting times to London, and hence relieve pressure on the London/SE housing market ?
> @JosiasJessop said: > > @JosiasJessop said: > > > Its a non-starter because the northern half isn't deemed to be important by the HS2 cheerleaders. > > > > > > > > > > > > And I'm overtly saying that HS2 should be cancelled. > > > > > > > > > > > > If construction had begun years ago, in particular in the North, then there would be much less chance of that now happening. > > > > > > I'm an HS2 cheerleader, and I think the northern half is very important, and have argued as such. So you are wrong. > > > > > > But if we had 'started in the north' then you'd just be arguing that it's a bloody stupid thing to be doing, given the capacity constraints are mainly in the south. > > > > > > Also, if HS2 is cancelled, good luck in getting your own favoured infrastructure improvements though ... > > > > There's nothing on my list of infrastructure improvements - this government has been pretty good at doing them. > > > > The important thing about getting HS2 started is that you would then get some 'buy-in' from people. > > > > And this is particularly so in the North - if they saw track actually being put down then they would believe that HS2 would actually happen and that they might benefit from it. > > > > Instead it looks like a project which benefits London consultants and lawyers and which if ever built would benefit Londoners with expense accounts. > > Permanent track is one of the last things to be completed; there will be three or four years of works before that phase occurs. Hence that's rather late to get them 'believing' it will happen. > > The works timetabling will probably be such that early works on phase 2B to Leeds and Manchester will probably be underway before the track goes down on phase 1. Yet alone phase 2A. > > Your last line is fairly ridiculous IMO, and shows an utter lack of understanding of the project. It can easily be argued that if it *doesn't* go ahead, the only people who could afford to use the current capacity-constrained network will be those on expense accounts ...
And this is why HS2 is in trouble.
Ten years of time and billions spent and nothing to show but arrogance and delays.
I'm sorry if this is a bit inconvenient but HS2 has failed to get 'buy-in' - its had the chance but it increasingly looks like a 20th century project.
> @JosiasJessop said: > @JosiasJessop - If the powers that be said that HS2 would result in cheaper (in real terms) tickets between Leeds and Kings Cross, then I'd have a more favourable view of the project. My worry is that won't happen because there is a danger that HS2 could become another M6 Toll. > > That's a fair comment, and a reasonable worry. > > However, if HS2 doesn't go ahead, and the current routes between your example of Leeds and Kings Cross become more capacity constrained (*), then do you think that ticket prices would remain the same or go up ? > > Increasing prices is an easy way of managing an over-subscribed resource ... > > (*) I believe they're already fairly constrained.
Yet there never seems to be any shortage of tickets on the Leeds to LKX route.
Ten years of time and billions spent and nothing to show but arrogance and delays.
I'm sorry if this is a bit inconvenient but HS2 has failed to get 'buy-in' - its had the chance but it increasingly looks like a 20th century project.
I can't quite see why you think what I said was 'arrogant'.
I fear nothing I - or HS2 - could have said would have led you to 'buy-in' to it. You're consistently anti the project - and fair enough. But it seems a little odd when you pretend to give the project 'advice' that is not exactly fact-based.
> @JosiasJessop said: > @JosiasJessop - If the powers that be said that HS2 would result in cheaper (in real terms) tickets between Leeds and Kings Cross, then I'd have a more favourable view of the project. My worry is that won't happen because there is a danger that HS2 could become another M6 Toll. > > That's a fair comment, and a reasonable worry. > > However, if HS2 doesn't go ahead, and the current routes between your example of Leeds and Kings Cross become more capacity constrained (*), then do you think that ticket prices would remain the same or go up ? > > Increasing prices is an easy way of managing an over-subscribed resource ... > > (*) I believe they're already fairly constrained.
Well I'm in favour of deregulating ticket prices so I don't mind if the market sets the price of Woking to Waterloo in the same way as it dictates the price of London to Leeds.
What could we do to increase capacity on London to Leeds? Four tracking the ECML from Welwyn to Woolmer Green is the obvious thing to do - but that's easier said than done.
I'd also suggest extending more EMT services from Sheffield to Leeds. Yes it's a slower service, but it would appeal to those travelling on a budget. I guess more trains would be needed on the MML for that to be a possibility.
The problem, though, is that by allowing EMT to run to Leeds, it would devalue the ECML franchise. First Group took over the running of the SWR franchise and promised to improve everything except for one thing: The West of England Line. And who can blame them? Why spend money on new trains for a line which competes with their other franchise the GWR?
Leave.eu taking credit for Phillip lee no confidence they are going for clark, Hammond and many more. Maybe it’s time any remaining decent conservatives cut up their membership card.
> Not like this board which is crawling with racists.
>
> Islam is not a race.
In many contexts it's a magically accurate predictor of race, in the same way that first language is. As with language it is possible that our brains are specifically wired to acquire it from our parents at an early age (see under Chomsky, Noam). Believing it is therefore in most cases not a voluntary choice like, say, thinking that radiohead are good musicians or the LDs are a natural party of government. Indeed it's a difficult question whether being, say, muslim is any more a voluntary or alterable choice any more than being gay is. I don't therefore have much time for the "it's a belief, so we can point at them and laugh" school of thought.
That is one of the most nonsensical statements I've read on here.
If Islam is not a voluntary choice it is because of the social pressures on those who do not believe or want to leave, not least the rules on apostasy.
Islam is a religion. Not a bit of your DNA. However much it may be important to a person it is no more worthy of protection than anything else which matters very much to a person. It is something which was created by man and can be discarded by man, as it has been in parts of the world where once it ruled.
If we start protecting from criticism deeply held belief systems on the grounds that particular ones are more deeply held than others, we are giving up freedom of thought and will effectively end up living under the theocracy of whichever group shouts and screams the loudest. No thank you.
They havent even started yet!? I feel like it has been underway most of my life. No wonder people are annoyed. You need to start pretty quickly with big stuff. (Snip)
That depends how you define 'start'. There is a great deal of work going on, and has been for years. This is not the 'proper' construction works, but 'enabling' ones. TBF, when it means moving roads then there is a very fine line between the two.
> @JosiasJessop said: > And this is why HS2 is in trouble. > > Ten years of time and billions spent and nothing to show but arrogance and delays. > > > > I'm sorry if this is a bit inconvenient but HS2 has failed to get 'buy-in' - its had the chance but it increasingly looks like a 20th century project. > > I can't quite see why you think what I said was 'arrogant'. > > I fear nothing I - or HS2 - could have said would have led you to 'buy-in' to it. You're consistently anti the project - and fair enough. But it seems a little odd when you pretend to give the project 'advice' that is not exactly fact-based.
What comes across as arrogant from the HS2 supporters is the assumption that it should continue despite failing to make the case for it and despite report after report demolishing its claims.
Now it doesn't matter what I think but we are now approaching the time when politicians will be looking for an easy source of billions to back up their spending promises.
Likewise we are now overdue a recession whereupon the public finances will be even more severely constrained.
Has HS2 done anything to prepare for this or has it casually and arrogantly IMO assumed that the money being spent on it will be certain to happen.
If there is one thing the remain side has shown it is that just because something or other is "decided", the battle is not in fact over till the final letter has been signed, railtrack or brick laid.
I'm in favour of Heathrow expansion, and slightly against HS2. I don't see why hardcore opponents of both should stop battling though, and expect BRX to come out against HS2 in particular.
> @Pulpstar said: > If there is one thing the remain side has shown it is that just because something or other is "decided", the battle is not in fact over till the final letter has been signed, railtrack or brick laid. > > I'm in favour of Heathrow expansion, and slightly against HS2. I don't see why hardcore opponents of both should stop battling though, and expect BRX to come out against HS2 in particular.
I expect BRX to come out against pretty much everything. Kind of appropriate for the ultimate repository for the protest vote.
What will be interesting is if they (if they can be accurately called 'they') ever come out in favour of anything.
Comments
> Gove's main message: "If we don't deliver Brexit before the next election, then Jeremy Corbyn could be in Downing Street."
>
> None of them seem to know what to do about an environment where the Lib Dems and the Brexit Party are the real opposition.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqRbwxF4JJU
Hi> @williamglenn said:
> Gove's main message: "If we don't deliver Brexit before the next election, then Jeremy Corbyn could be in Downing Street."
>
> None of them seem to know what to do about an environment where the Lib Dems and the Brexit Party are the real opposition
Yeah things are moving on - the Tories themselves are becoming irrelevant never mind Corbyn
> > @Cyclefree said:
>
> > All is well in the real world.
>
>
>
> Not like this board which is crawling with racists.
>
> I'm not sure if that accusation is levelled at me. But if so I reject it.
>
> Anyway, stuff to do. If anyone has any good tips for the Derby send them my way! My last outing at Sandown was not very profitable so I'm hoping for better today.
To be absolutely clear, that was not directed at you. But three openly racist people on the previous thread.
> I'm putting many of the undeclared in the Boris camp..... They'll tell their local associations who they voted for once the voting to get to the final two is over.
A mistake I'd say. All the decent cabinet posts will be spoken for by the early backers. What's more that isn't borne out by those who claim to want to hear from the candidates before declaring. People like Alan Duncan who specificlly WONT vote Boris.
"He's the biggest celebrity ever. But is he ready to lead?"
(Last year I planted some sunflower seeds with the little 'un. We went away for the weekend, only to come back to find that she'd done some 'weeding' and pulled up the inch-high sunflower stems along with a few weeds. Cue a journey to a garden centre to buy some new ones ...)
He IS Alan B'Stard.
....But then again this is a TORY selectorate
> A mistake I'd say. All the decent cabinet posts will be spoken for by the early backers. What's more that isn't borne out by those who claim to want to hear from the candidates before declaring. People like Alan Duncan who specificlly WONT vote Boris.
I don't think cabinet posts are the currency they used to be now that ambitious politicians feel the need to resign them as soon as the PM's EU plans make contact with reality.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/03/ruth-davidson-next-pm-should-not-block-scottish-independence-ref/
> Its a non-starter because the northern half isn't deemed to be important by the HS2 cheerleaders.
>
>
>
> And I'm overtly saying that HS2 should be cancelled.
>
>
>
> If construction had begun years ago, in particular in the North, then there would be much less chance of that now happening.
>
> I'm an HS2 cheerleader, and I think the northern half is very important, and have argued as such. So you are wrong.
>
> But if we had 'started in the north' then you'd just be arguing that it's a bloody stupid thing to be doing, given the capacity constraints are mainly in the south.
>
> Also, if HS2 is cancelled, good luck in getting your own favoured infrastructure improvements though ...
There's nothing on my list of infrastructure improvements - this government has been pretty good at doing them.
The important thing about getting HS2 started is that you would then get some 'buy-in' from people.
And this is particularly so in the North - if they saw track actually being put down then they would believe that HS2 would actually happen and that they might benefit from it.
Instead it looks like a project which benefits London consultants and lawyers and which if ever built would benefit Londoners with expense accounts.
> > @Theuniondivvie said:
> > > @williamglenn said:
> > > Gove has a website: https://gove2019.com/
> >
> >
> > You just know that hours were spent artfully choosing that cheapo manofthepeople ballpoint rather than some lacquered Montblanc jobbie.
>
> So what does the jacket but no tie imagery supposed to represent ?
It's an uphill struggle projecting an image if you look like Gove, but I'm guessing popping into the office on a Saturday to do some extra important stuff after dropping the kids off at rugby practice. Should probably be a blue chambray shirt to really nail it. Blair was pretty good at that kind of thing.
> He said grey welfare shouldn’t be immune
Thay sounds unwise. What do we know about the people who have entryized the Conservative Party? It's probably not safe to assume they're conservatives.
> > @Pulpstar said:
>
> > Absolutely no consensus for HS2 has been achieved nationally I expect given most people don't actually live in London, or one of the other big cities served. Certainly not up where I am, indeed the Sheffield link is the sort of afterthought that politicians based in the capital whose entire view of Yorkshire consists of Leeds would come up with. I expect sentiment is similar in the rural Tory constituencies in the south.
>
> > This is low hanging fruit for both the Tory leadership contenders and the Brexit party.
>
>
>
> The preference for a station in the centre of Sheffield rather than at Meadowhall is another example of that.
>
>
>
> I cam across this justification for HS2 recently:
>
>
>
> ' Building Northern Powerhouse Rail without HS2 would be like constructing the M62 without the M1. '
>
>
>
> http://www.cityam.com/277940/debate-time-accept-sunk-cost-and-scrap-hs2
>
>
>
> I suspect there would be microscopically few users of the M62 who think its only justification is to link to the M1.
>
> I don't have time to read that, but are they saying it's the 'only' justification, or is that your interpretation?
>
> It's hard to argue that the M62 isn't part of a wider motorway 'network', and its utilisation and usefulness without that supporting network would be very different. Likewise, ideally HS2 and NPR should be planned as a network designed to get the best out of each other.
You'll have to read it and draw your own conclusions.
But I'd say there is a feeling that transport infrastructure is viewed as a London centred issue with improvements in the North viewed as an appendage of that rather than as being worthwhile on purely local merits.
> > @HYUFD said:
>
> > > @NickPalmer said:
>
> > > There was a report that Boris was poised to have a bunch of endorsements on Monday and had been telling people to hold back so as to make more impact. Like all statements saying "I will do X very soon" (cf. Farage, who is always about to attrract several MPs), it should be taken with a lump of salt, but worth waiting for Monday before laying Boris heavily.
>
> > >
>
> > > In the absence of a serious Remain candidate, the "not as Leave as Raab" vote seems to be poised between Hunt (who seemed moderate but has made strenuous efforts to appear less so), Gove (whose intellectual depth makes him simply seem less likely to be extreme, though he does have a record of plunging deep in one direction or another) and Boris (because Boris doesn't really do zealotry). By contrast, Raab seems to be cornering most of the hard Leave support so far.
>
> >
>
> > Yes Raab also laid out a big tax and spending cuts plan yesterday to add to his firm hard Brexit agenda.
>
> >
>
> > https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1134422322667036673
>
>
>
> >
>
> > Raab is currently the main candidate of the hard right in the party but if Baker declares he could challenge him for that position
>
>
>
> Has he said which cuts he wants to be 'brave' about ?
>
>
>
> Now some cuts - HS2 and Overseas Aid are 'fish in a barrel' stuff.
>
>
>
> But is he suggesting ending triple lock pensions for example ?
>
> He said grey welfare shouldn’t be immune
Which is a wonderfully vague suggestion.
Yet he managed to be very specific about his tax cut plans.
> > @Cyclefree said:
>
> > All is well in the real world.
>
>
>
> Not like this board which is crawling with racists.
>
> Has the odd nutjob zealot for certain. Get away out with your sandwich board and give us peace
lol
malc take that burning cross off your neighbors lawn youve been rumbled
>
That picture reminds me of one of those bankers who needed a bailout.
> > https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1134422322667036673?s=20
> >
>
> That picture reminds me of one of those bankers who needed a bailout.
Can't see him doing well against Farage. Looks like the very epitome of the Elite who Farage's mob are now after with the pitchforks.
> > @malcolmg said:
>
> > > @Cyclefree said:
>
> >
>
> > > All is well in the real world.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Not like this board which is crawling with racists.
>
> >
>
> > Has the odd nutjob zealot for certain. Get away out with your sandwich board and give us peace
>
>
>
> lol
>
>
>
> malc take that burning cross off your neighbors lawn youve been rumbled
>
> Morning Alan, still chuckling from rewatching Mason Boyne. I will go soon and iron some sheets for later.
I was up in Scotland last weekend. Did a round trip of Fife. enjoyed St Andrews
> Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true.
He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35%
Wind it slowly, wind it fast
A brexit you will find at last
> Of the leading candidates only Gove would be credible. Hunt looks the part but seems an empty suit. Raab will be sure so probably be him.
>
> So what you're saying is that there is no credible candidate at all?
Pretty much
> It does seem significant that committed Leavers haven’t coalesced around Johnson already. They clearly don't trust him.
Clearly.
> https://twitter.com/AmIRightSir/status/1134737209351901184
................................................................................................
Theresa May give Wellington the order of the boot .....
> > @Cyclefree said:
> > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true.
>
> He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35%
15% tax for most would be a winner
Perhaps Rory and Arlene could find a destination together where they can live happily ever after.
https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/1134727144578408448
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @Cyclefree said:
> > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true.
> >
> > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35%
>
> 15% tax for most would be a winner
No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
> > @Cyclefree said:
>
> > All is well in the real world.
>
>
>
> Not like this board which is crawling with racists.
>
> Islam is not a race.
In many contexts it's a magically accurate predictor of race, in the same way that first language is. As with language it is possible that our brains are specifically wired to acquire it from our parents at an early age (see under Chomsky, Noam). Believing it is therefore in most cases not a voluntary choice like, say, thinking that radiohead are good musicians or the LDs are a natural party of government. Indeed it's a difficult question whether being, say, muslim is any more a voluntary or alterable choice any more than being gay is. I don't therefore have much time for the "it's a belief, so we can point at them and laugh" school of thought.
> > @malcolmg said:
>
> > > @malcolmg said:
>
> >
>
> > > > @Cyclefree said:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > All is well in the real world.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Not like this board which is crawling with racists.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Has the odd nutjob zealot for certain. Get away out with your sandwich board and give us peace
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > lol
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > malc take that burning cross off your neighbors lawn youve been rumbled
>
> >
>
> > Morning Alan, still chuckling from rewatching Mason Boyne. I will go soon and iron some sheets for later.
>
>
>
> I was up in Scotland last weekend. Did a round trip of Fife. enjoyed St Andrews
>
> It is very nice round that Fife coast, lovely small villages.
The wife has family ties up there.
> No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
Do you have evidence that he is planning a genocide of millions?
> Emotional blackmail now.
> Perhaps Rory and Arlene could find a destination together where they can live happily ever after.
>
> https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/1134727144578408448
Another in a long list of people who claim that they will emigrate if the wrong side wins a vote. Cf President Trump calling Meghan, Countess of Dumbarton, “nasty” for threatening to emigrate if Trump won.
The Last Chance Saloon Conservative Handicap Hurdle (5 year old +)
Final declarations 10th June. Form guide to the runners will be issued through to race day.
> Emotional blackmail now.
> Perhaps Rory and Arlene could find a destination together where they can live happily ever after.
>
> https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/1134727144578408448
He wont have far to go though. Doesn't he live in the borders?
I'm standing here, not saying anything.
No, no.
No, siree...
> > @justin124 said:
>
> > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
>
> Do you have evidence that he is planning a genocide of millions?
>
That is a non sequitur. As pointed out before, Arbeit Macht Frei appeared in 1933 at Dachau and elsewhere - long before the signs of any intent to commit genocide. I am inclined to believe he would welcome a 'slave labour' economy.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @justin124 said:
> > > > @Cyclefree said:
> > > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true.
> > >
> > > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35%
> >
> > 15% tax for most would be a winner
>
> No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
Low taxes help everyone and why on earth do you use that unacceptable last few words
Disgusting
> > @Andrew said:
> > > @justin124 said:
> >
> > > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
> >
> > Do you have evidence that he is planning a genocide of millions?
> >
>
> That is a non sequitur. As pointed out before, Arbeit Macht Frei appeared in 1933 at Dachau and elsewhere - long before the signs of any intent to commit genocide. I am inclined to believe he would welcome a 'slave labour' economy.
Twit.
> > @rottenborough said:
> > https://twitter.com/AmIRightSir/status/1134737209351901184
>
> ................................................................................................
>
> Theresa May give Wellington the order of the boot .....
The decline of Britain: we have gone from prime ministers named after pubs to prime ministers named after shampoo.
> > @Andrew said:
> > > @justin124 said:
> >
> > > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
> >
> > Do you have evidence that he is planning a genocide of millions?
> >
>
> That is a non sequitur. As pointed out before, Arbeit Macht Frei appeared in 1933 at Dachau and elsewhere - long before the signs of any intent to commit genocide. I am inclined to believe he would welcome a 'slave labour' economy.
You are just being idiotic
> > @Andrew said:
> > > @justin124 said:
> >
> > > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
> >
> > Do you have evidence that he is planning a genocide of millions?
> >
>
> That is a non sequitur. As pointed out before, Arbeit Macht Frei appeared in 1933 at Dachau and elsewhere - long before the signs of any intent to commit genocide. I am inclined to believe he would welcome a 'slave labour' economy.
Are you Ken Livingston?
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > > @Cyclefree said:
> > > > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true.
> > > >
> > > > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35%
> > >
> > > 15% tax for most would be a winner
> >
> > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
>
> Low taxes help everyone and why on earth do you use that unacceptable last few words
>
> Disgusting
Low taxes do not help everyone when accompanied by big spending cuts. Why not abolish Income Tax and get rid of all state benefits at the same time? That is clearly the direction favoured by this evil guy.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @justin124 said:
> > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > > > @Cyclefree said:
> > > > > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true.
> > > > >
> > > > > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35%
> > > >
> > > > 15% tax for most would be a winner
> > >
> > > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
> >
> > Low taxes help everyone and why on earth do you use that unacceptable last few words
> >
> > Disgusting
>
> Low taxes do not help everyone when accompanied by big spending cuts. Why not abolish Income Tax and get rid of all state benefits at the same time? That is clearly the direction favoured by this evil guy.
You throw idiotic comments and brand people evil far too easily
> There must be two Ruth Davidsons.
>
>
>
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/03/ruth-davidson-next-pm-should-not-block-scottish-independence-ref/
>
> That's before she realised her voting base was the "No at any cost crowd"
Her base, ie her core vote, is max 15% of the population. Banging on saying No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No ad infinitum just makes her the Ian Paisley de nos jours.
How’s she going to attract the other 85% who are not flute fan Brit Nats with Union Jack underpants?
Whether he wants to be or not, Johnson has gone from being the candidate who can reach into every part of England and Wales to one that can speak only to half of it. It underlines that the choice that the Conservatives are making is not to put the election winner of 2012 at their head, but to refight the 2017 election with a more charismatic figurehead and a more divisive Brexit offer, in the hope that they will get a better result.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/06/donald-trumps-endorsement-underlines-there-no-way-back-boris-johnson
Johnson is Corbyn's best hope. And vice versa, of course.
https://twitter.com/cath_haddon/status/1134424361358831616
> Very hard to disagree with this view of what the Trump endorsement means for Johnson:
>
> Whether he wants to be or not, Johnson has gone from being the candidate who can reach into every part of England and Wales to one that can speak only to half of it. It underlines that the choice that the Conservatives are making is not to put the election winner of 2012 at their head, but to refight the 2017 election with a more charismatic figurehead and a more divisive Brexit offer, in the hope that they will get a better result.
>
> https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/06/donald-trumps-endorsement-underlines-there-no-way-back-boris-johnson
>
> Johnson is Corbyn's best hope. And vice versa, of course.
>
>
He might appeal to half of England and Wales, but what percentage of Scots will he appeal to? Vanishingly small. As Ruthie is well aware.
> > @MarqueeMark said:
> > I'm putting many of the undeclared in the Boris camp..... They'll tell their local associations who they voted for once the voting to get to the final two is over.
>
> A mistake I'd say. All the decent cabinet posts will be spoken for by the early backers. What's more that isn't borne out by those who claim to want to hear from the candidates before declaring. People like Alan Duncan who specificlly WONT vote Boris.
I'm sure they will have told Boris. His approach so far - keep quiet, let his opponents make all the noise - suggests a man confident he has enough pledges to get to the membership.
Be interesting if say Penny Mordaunt decides not to run, but will be happy to trade keeping the job of Defence Secretary if she advises her supporters to back Boris. It might be those like the Moggster who don't run, who get the plum Cabinet roles from Boris.
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > > > > @Cyclefree said:
> > > > > > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35%
> > > > >
> > > > > 15% tax for most would be a winner
> > > >
> > > > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
> > >
> > > Low taxes help everyone and why on earth do you use that unacceptable last few words
> > >
> > > Disgusting
> >
> > Low taxes do not help everyone when accompanied by big spending cuts. Why not abolish Income Tax and get rid of all state benefits at the same time? That is clearly the direction favoured by this evil guy.
>
> You throw idiotic comments and brand people evil far too easily
I am well versed in both economics and 20th century history - particularly with regard to the Third Reich. Those who always equate 'Arbeit Macht Frei' with genocide just reveal their ignorance of when and where the term was first used.
Raab would clearly be happy to dismantle the Welfare State in all but name - whilst slashing taxes for the benefit of Alan Bstard types such as himself. I find that evil.
But the absolute max a Yes vote could ever get at an Indy Ref would be 65%.
> Very hard to disagree with this view of what the Trump endorsement means for Johnson:
>
> Whether he wants to be or not, Johnson has gone from being the candidate who can reach into every part of England and Wales to one that can speak only to half of it. It underlines that the choice that the Conservatives are making is not to put the election winner of 2012 at their head, but to refight the 2017 election with a more charismatic figurehead and a more divisive Brexit offer, in the hope that they will get a better result.
>
> https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/06/donald-trumps-endorsement-underlines-there-no-way-back-boris-johnson
>
> Johnson is Corbyn's best hope. And vice versa, of course.
>
>
Opinion and polling seems to confirm that sadly there is no middle way and both extremes of the brexit debate are in a fight to the death, as our Country endures international humililation.
It does look like Boris may well win and will no doubt empower the DUP, Farage and Trump in the battle and for most of us there is little we can do but watch in horror as both sides enter an even worse and malevolent period
The only thing I can do is not vote Boris in the member's vote
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7011351/Inside-shocking-NHS-111-training-scheme-staff-eyebrows-THREADED-trainees-cheat.html
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @justin124 said:
> > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > > > > > @Cyclefree said:
> > > > > > > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35%
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 15% tax for most would be a winner
> > > > >
> > > > > No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
> > > >
> > > > Low taxes help everyone and why on earth do you use that unacceptable last few words
> > > >
> > > > Disgusting
> > >
> > > Low taxes do not help everyone when accompanied by big spending cuts. Why not abolish Income Tax and get rid of all state benefits at the same time? That is clearly the direction favoured by this evil guy.
> >
> > You throw idiotic comments and brand people evil far too easily
>
> I am well versed in both economics and 20th century history - particularly with regard to the Third Reich. Those who always equate 'Arbeit Macht Frei' with genocide just reveal their ignorance of when and where the term was first used.
> Raab would clearly be happy to dismantle the Welfare State in all but name - whilst slashing taxes for the benefit of Alan Bstard types such as himself. I find that evil.
I have no intention of engaging with you further
> > @Theuniondivvie said:
> > Emotional blackmail now.
> > Perhaps Rory and Arlene could find a destination together where they can live happily ever after.
> >
> > https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/1134727144578408448
>
> He wont have far to go though. Doesn't he live in the borders?
A gentle stroll for Rory.
> > @SouthamObserver said:
> > Very hard to disagree with this view of what the Trump endorsement means for Johnson:
> >
> > Whether he wants to be or not, Johnson has gone from being the candidate who can reach into every part of England and Wales to one that can speak only to half of it. It underlines that the choice that the Conservatives are making is not to put the election winner of 2012 at their head, but to refight the 2017 election with a more charismatic figurehead and a more divisive Brexit offer, in the hope that they will get a better result.
> >
> > https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/06/donald-trumps-endorsement-underlines-there-no-way-back-boris-johnson
> >
> > Johnson is Corbyn's best hope. And vice versa, of course.
> >
> >
>
> He might appeal to half of England and Wales, but what percentage of Scots will he appeal to? Vanishingly small. As Ruthie is well aware.
>
I doubt it’s half of Wales or England either, these days.
> > @Theuniondivvie said:
> > Emotional blackmail now.
> > Perhaps Rory and Arlene could find a destination together where they can live happily ever after.
> >
> > https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/1134727144578408448
>
> He wont have far to go though. Doesn't he live in the borders?
Afaicr Rory's thesis (handily supported by a BBC documentary) during the indy referendum was that the borders are a kind of middle land, and the division between Scotland & England was an artificial construct of the Romans further whipped up by Scottish nationalism. Perhaps he'll support indy for Middleland so he won't have to emigrate, a happy land of cheery yokels knuckling their brows to their betweeded obliging nobility.
There's some evidence that Rory isn't a complete aresehole, but I did like this tweet.
https://twitter.com/DanCarpenter85/status/1134049877229539330
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
>
> > > @justin124 said:
>
> > > > @Cyclefree said:
>
> > > > Raab as the non-nutcase option? Really? I don’t think so. He strikes me both as a nutcase and utterly dishonest, if the reports about his behaviour from Europe and Ireland are true.
>
> > >
>
> > > He actually sounds a pretty nasty piece of work - seeking further big spending cuts whilst reducing Income Tax to 35%
>
> >
>
> > 15% tax for most would be a winner
>
>
>
> No - it shows a callous indifference to the suffering of the less fortunate. He is clearly committed to making the Tory party even nastier than it already is - very much from the Arbeit Macht Frei wing.
>
> Fuck off back your hating unmarried couples and calling children bastards (and no doubt bitches depending on sex) you reprehensible excuse for a human being.
Flattery will get you nowhere. I have to say though that such comments from such obvious Riff Raff as yourself should be taken as a compliment.I happily do so.
The works timetabling will probably be such that early works on phase 2B to Leeds and Manchester will probably be underway before the track goes down on phase 1. Yet alone phase 2A.
Your last line is fairly ridiculous IMO, and shows an utter lack of understanding of the project. It can easily be argued that if it *doesn't* go ahead, the only people who could afford to use the current capacity-constrained network will be those on expense accounts ...
"It's feisty in here today. It's like the Mighty Fine in Portsmouth on a Forces Only night. Except there isn't a stripper who'll spit in your mouth for a fiver."
..................................................................................................
Perhaps you and @TSE should hook up and exchange war stories .... and fashion tips for the sartorially challenged ....
It's like people arguing that displaying the swastika is fine because it was used in other cultures for thousands of years.
> https://twitter.com/e_casalicchio/status/1134785066167652352?s=21
A badge he should wear with pride
However, if HS2 doesn't go ahead, and the current routes between your example of Leeds and Kings Cross become more capacity constrained (*), then do you think that ticket prices would remain the same or go up ?
Increasing prices is an easy way of managing an over-subscribed resource ...
(*) I believe they're already fairly constrained.
> Gove has a website: https://gove2019.com/
>
> Has nobody suggested the slogan "Gove for guvnor" yet?
Michael dot gov.
> I am well versed in both economics and 20th century history - particularly with regard to the Third Reich. Those who always equate 'Arbeit Macht Frei' with genocide just reveal their ignorance of when and where the term was first used.
> (Snip)
>
> Like it or not, that's exactly what the term is now equated with. The deeper history of the phrase is pretty irrelevant.
>
> It's like people arguing that displaying the swastika is fine because it was used in other cultures for thousands of years.
That depends on the context. When the user makes it clear that he is not alluding to genocide but the much earlier promotion of programmes to deal with unemployment, the message should be obvious.
> @JosiasJessop - If the powers that be said that HS2 would result in cheaper (in real terms) tickets between Leeds and Kings Cross, then I'd have a more favourable view of the project. My worry is that won't happen because there is a danger that HS2 could become another M6 Toll.
>
> That's a fair comment, and a reasonable worry.
>
> However, if HS2 doesn't go ahead, and the current routes between your example of Leeds and Kings Cross become more capacity constrained (*), then do you think that ticket prices would remain the same or go up ?
>
> Increasing prices is an easy way of managing an over-subscribed resource ...
>
> (*) I believe they're already fairly constrained.
Isn't the idea also to expand the radius of reasonable commuting times to London, and hence relieve pressure on the London/SE housing market ?
> > @JosiasJessop said:
>
> > Its a non-starter because the northern half isn't deemed to be important by the HS2 cheerleaders.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > And I'm overtly saying that HS2 should be cancelled.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > If construction had begun years ago, in particular in the North, then there would be much less chance of that now happening.
>
> >
>
> > I'm an HS2 cheerleader, and I think the northern half is very important, and have argued as such. So you are wrong.
>
> >
>
> > But if we had 'started in the north' then you'd just be arguing that it's a bloody stupid thing to be doing, given the capacity constraints are mainly in the south.
>
> >
>
> > Also, if HS2 is cancelled, good luck in getting your own favoured infrastructure improvements though ...
>
>
>
> There's nothing on my list of infrastructure improvements - this government has been pretty good at doing them.
>
>
>
> The important thing about getting HS2 started is that you would then get some 'buy-in' from people.
>
>
>
> And this is particularly so in the North - if they saw track actually being put down then they would believe that HS2 would actually happen and that they might benefit from it.
>
>
>
> Instead it looks like a project which benefits London consultants and lawyers and which if ever built would benefit Londoners with expense accounts.
>
> Permanent track is one of the last things to be completed; there will be three or four years of works before that phase occurs. Hence that's rather late to get them 'believing' it will happen.
>
> The works timetabling will probably be such that early works on phase 2B to Leeds and Manchester will probably be underway before the track goes down on phase 1. Yet alone phase 2A.
>
> Your last line is fairly ridiculous IMO, and shows an utter lack of understanding of the project. It can easily be argued that if it *doesn't* go ahead, the only people who could afford to use the current capacity-constrained network will be those on expense accounts ...
And this is why HS2 is in trouble.
Ten years of time and billions spent and nothing to show but arrogance and delays.
I'm sorry if this is a bit inconvenient but HS2 has failed to get 'buy-in' - its had the chance but it increasingly looks like a 20th century project.
> @JosiasJessop - If the powers that be said that HS2 would result in cheaper (in real terms) tickets between Leeds and Kings Cross, then I'd have a more favourable view of the project. My worry is that won't happen because there is a danger that HS2 could become another M6 Toll.
>
> That's a fair comment, and a reasonable worry.
>
> However, if HS2 doesn't go ahead, and the current routes between your example of Leeds and Kings Cross become more capacity constrained (*), then do you think that ticket prices would remain the same or go up ?
>
> Increasing prices is an easy way of managing an over-subscribed resource ...
>
> (*) I believe they're already fairly constrained.
Yet there never seems to be any shortage of tickets on the Leeds to LKX route.
I fear nothing I - or HS2 - could have said would have led you to 'buy-in' to it. You're consistently anti the project - and fair enough. But it seems a little odd when you pretend to give the project 'advice' that is not exactly fact-based.
> @JosiasJessop - If the powers that be said that HS2 would result in cheaper (in real terms) tickets between Leeds and Kings Cross, then I'd have a more favourable view of the project. My worry is that won't happen because there is a danger that HS2 could become another M6 Toll.
>
> That's a fair comment, and a reasonable worry.
>
> However, if HS2 doesn't go ahead, and the current routes between your example of Leeds and Kings Cross become more capacity constrained (*), then do you think that ticket prices would remain the same or go up ?
>
> Increasing prices is an easy way of managing an over-subscribed resource ...
>
> (*) I believe they're already fairly constrained.
Well I'm in favour of deregulating ticket prices so I don't mind if the market sets the price of Woking to Waterloo in the same way as it dictates the price of London to Leeds.
What could we do to increase capacity on London to Leeds? Four tracking the ECML from Welwyn to Woolmer Green is the obvious thing to do - but that's easier said than done.
I'd also suggest extending more EMT services from Sheffield to Leeds. Yes it's a slower service, but it would appeal to those travelling on a budget. I guess more trains would be needed on the MML for that to be a possibility.
The problem, though, is that by allowing EMT to run to Leeds, it would devalue the ECML franchise. First Group took over the running of the SWR franchise and promised to improve everything except for one thing: The West of England Line. And who can blame them? Why spend money on new trains for a line which competes with their other franchise the GWR?
> > @williamglenn said:
> > https://twitter.com/e_casalicchio/status/1134785066167652352?s=21
>
> A badge he should wear with pride
This is all self defeating . Another resigning from the whip soon .
> Gove has a website: https://gove2019.com/
>
> Has nobody suggested the slogan "Gove for guvnor" yet?
That is one of the most nonsensical statements I've read on here.
If Islam is not a voluntary choice it is because of the social pressures on those who do not believe or want to leave, not least the rules on apostasy.
Islam is a religion. Not a bit of your DNA. However much it may be important to a person it is no more worthy of protection than anything else which matters very much to a person. It is something which was created by man and can be discarded by man, as it has been in parts of the world where once it ruled.
If we start protecting from criticism deeply held belief systems on the grounds that particular ones are more deeply held than others, we are giving up freedom of thought and will effectively end up living under the theocracy of whichever group shouts and screams the loudest. No thank you.
Corbo could have helped him out with domain registration.
> And this is why HS2 is in trouble.
>
> Ten years of time and billions spent and nothing to show but arrogance and delays.
>
>
>
> I'm sorry if this is a bit inconvenient but HS2 has failed to get 'buy-in' - its had the chance but it increasingly looks like a 20th century project.
>
> I can't quite see why you think what I said was 'arrogant'.
>
> I fear nothing I - or HS2 - could have said would have led you to 'buy-in' to it. You're consistently anti the project - and fair enough. But it seems a little odd when you pretend to give the project 'advice' that is not exactly fact-based.
What comes across as arrogant from the HS2 supporters is the assumption that it should continue despite failing to make the case for it and despite report after report demolishing its claims.
Now it doesn't matter what I think but we are now approaching the time when politicians will be looking for an easy source of billions to back up their spending promises.
Likewise we are now overdue a recession whereupon the public finances will be even more severely constrained.
Has HS2 done anything to prepare for this or has it casually and arrogantly IMO assumed that the money being spent on it will be certain to happen.
I'm in favour of Heathrow expansion, and slightly against HS2. I don't see why hardcore opponents of both should stop battling though, and expect BRX to come out against HS2 in particular.
> If there is one thing the remain side has shown it is that just because something or other is "decided", the battle is not in fact over till the final letter has been signed, railtrack or brick laid.
>
> I'm in favour of Heathrow expansion, and slightly against HS2. I don't see why hardcore opponents of both should stop battling though, and expect BRX to come out against HS2 in particular.
I expect BRX to come out against pretty much everything. Kind of appropriate for the ultimate repository for the protest vote.
What will be interesting is if they (if they can be accurately called 'they') ever come out in favour of anything.