The Boris case will fail, I think, on the same grounds that manifestos have been legally stated to be unenforceable.
Its significance is the timing in the middle of the leadership constest, it is at the very least a distraction, possibly a tipping point against his chances.
Unless he's resoundingly vindicated.
Not likely to happen on the right timescale for him, whatever the outcome.
Quote: "As a historian I fear Brexit could be the beginning of the destruction of not only the EU but also Western political civilisation in its entirety"
Unless you believe he had no such fear then it can't be a lie.
I must have missed the bit where the Brexit Party had formed a government and Nigel had trooped off the Buck House for his first weekly chat with the Queen.
Funny what a trip to Oxford does to the memory ....
The UK pays more into the EU budget than it gets back. In 2017 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at nearly £9 billion. Each year the UK gets a discount on its contributions to the EU—the ‘rebate’—worth about £5.6 billion last year. Without it the UK would have been liable for £18.6 billion in contributions. [..] It’s been claimed that we send £350 million a week to the EU. That misses out the rebate, and it doesn’t represent the total economic costs and benefits of EU membership to the UK. £350 million is roughly what we would pay to the EU budget without the rebate. The UK actually paid closer to £250 million a week. The UK Statistics Authority has said the EU membership fee figure of £19 billion a year, or £350 million a week, is "not an amount of money that the UK pays to the EU each year". Since then, the new chair of the Authority described use of the figure by the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, as “a clear misuse of official statistics”.
> @eristdoof said: > > @Sean_F said: > > > @Scott_P said: > > > Suggested elsewhere, it should not be illegal to lie in a campaign, but it should bar you from holding public office again... > > > > We'd have very few people left in public life. Everyone simplifies, exaggerates, distorts, spins, to get their case across. And, that has always been the case, ever since politics was invented. > > Just like footallers complaining about a ref who gives out too many yellow cards. You only need four or five who get banned from holding public office before all of the others realise and start taking an interest in making statements that they can back up. > > But anyway the 350m was not spin or distortion, it was a blatant lie which was repeated after it was shown to be a lie.
No. You end up with people just suing each other over every political claim they make.
I get that the true figure was £280m a week, not £350m a week, but I really don't see that as being much of a basis for a court claim.
> @AlastairMeeks said: > > @Casino_Royale said: > > > @Casino_Royale said: > > > > > > @Casino_Royale said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @Casino_Royale said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good to see that Leavers are huffing and puffing to be allowed to lie without consequence. I’m not sure that’s going to be very saleable to the general public. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I’m honest, Alastair, I’m very surprised to see you taking the position you have on this; I can only assume out of anger over the original Leave campaign itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are ultra hard Remainers - like Jo Maugham QC - who have added their voices to concerns over this today, and underlined that political sanctions should be the punishment and not the criminal law. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’d have thought, as someone with a firm legal background and strong morals, that you’d be the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Strong morals require that lying for profit has consequences. All I see is Leavers saying that lying for profit for a cause they approve of should be given a free pass. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don’t think anyone is saying that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The political consequences are real and clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He’s favourite to be next Prime Minister. > > > > > > > > > > The markets are overrating his chances. > > > > > > > > I was making the point that the political consequences are far from real and clear. The lying has been so far consequence-free. > > > > He’s gone from being a unifying figure to a divisive figure, split his siblings, fractured his own family, and lost respect of many of his colleagues. > > > > I’d say the consequences have been clear. > > If he becomes Prime Minister he’ll cry all the way to the bank.
If he becomes PM it will be because of the failure of those in post allowing him the opportunity. Not something he could have expected.
For all our complaints about political funding it is refreshing that such amounts are noteworthy. Presidential campaigns consume around $3bn (across all the candidates) with another $4bn spent on the simultaneous Congressional campaigns!
> > > Suggested elsewhere, it should not be illegal to lie in a campaign, but it should bar you from holding public office again...
> >
> > We'd have very few people left in public life. Everyone simplifies, exaggerates, distorts, spins, to get their case across. And, that has always been the case, ever since politics was invented.
>
> Just like footallers complaining about a ref who gives out too many yellow cards. You only need four or five who get banned from holding public office before all of the others realise and start taking an interest in making statements that they can back up.
>
> But anyway the 350m was not spin or distortion, it was a blatant lie which was repeated after it was shown to be a lie.
No. You end up with people just suing each other over every political claim they make.
I get that the true figure was £280m a week, not £350m a week, but I really don't see that as being much of a basis for a court claim.
The net mount was "only" (I use the word advisedly!) £171 million a week in 2017.
I'm unsure what people think they are paying for? In the first round Rory has to convince this Parliamentary colleague. In the second round Rory has to convince his Parliamentary party.
I doubt having a lot of money will make much difference to this particular selectorate...
> @JackW said: > @MarkHopkins said: > > "Anyway, the new Tory leader is irrelevant. > > The Brexit Party won the Euros, so they're the only party with the mandate to negotiate with the EU about Brexit. > > ................................................................................ > > I must have missed the bit where the Brexit Party had formed a government and Nigel had trooped off the Buck House for his first weekly chat with the Queen. > > Funny what a trip to Oxford does to the memory .... > > > >
You should have said; I'd have got you a dram at the Bear!
> @Peter_the_Punter said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > @Peter_the_Punter said: > > > > @OllyT said: > > > > > @MarkHopkins said: > > > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1133755079448813568 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The domino effect that some leavers assured us would happen after Brexit has had exactly the opposite effect . What a surprise! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, we haven't actually Brexitted yet > > > > > > > > The domino effect was predicted to occur after we had voted to leave and instead support for the EU has increased elsewhere and I believe that AfD in Germany, 5 star in Italy and the Front National in France have dropped exiting the EU from their policies. Are you arguing that once we have actually left the domino effect will kick in? Care to name, say, the next couple of countries that will follow our lead? > > > > > > Tusk nailed it again when he said the Brexit experience had been noted by other EU countries, and reduced the propensity to leave, pretty much across the board. > > > > Salvini is trying to form an anti EU alliance and will likely be the next Italian PM on Sunday's results, Le Pen topped the poll in France so while nationalists are not a majority in the EU they are still a significant force > > Yes, but the idea of Frexit or Italexit or pretty much any kind of Exit seems to be on the back burner for the time being, no?
Yes but I would argue it was never likely in the first place, at most Brexit would lead to an enlarged EFTA not the whole EU and Eurozone breaking apart in my view
Somewhere out there some poor Con is going about his criminal business not realising that the end game could be a sentence involving sharing a cell with Boris Johnson. For years. Surely this would constitute what our American cousins call a cruel and unusual punishment?
> @williamglenn said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > > Except in Italy as the Salvini surge confirms but to be fair Brexiteers like Hannan never said they wanted the EU to collapse, they just wanted to UK to join Switzerland and Norway etc outside it rather then become part of a Federal EU > -------- > > Hannan said he wanted other countries like Denmark, Ireland, the Netherlands to leave and imagined that the UK would "lead a 22-state bloc" outside the EU. > > https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/
So you admit he didnt say he wanted it to collapse.
Boris wins 51% to 33% but hard to see Tory MPs putting both Boris and Raab in the final 2, more likely one of them will represent the hard Brexit faction
> @AlastairMeeks said: > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving.
Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution?
> @Luckyguy1983 said: > The Boris case will fail, I think, on the same grounds that manifestos have been legally stated to be unenforceable. > > Its significance is the timing in the middle of the leadership constest, it is at the very least a distraction, possibly a tipping point against his chances. > > Unless he's resoundingly vindicated.
I'm not so sure - it's one thing to say that we plan to do x, it's another thing to state something about the here and now (we spend £350m a week on the EU) that isn't true.
> @Richard_Tyndall said: > > @williamglenn said: > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > > > Except in Italy as the Salvini surge confirms but to be fair Brexiteers like Hannan never said they wanted the EU to collapse, they just wanted to UK to join Switzerland and Norway etc outside it rather then become part of a Federal EU > > -------- > > > > Hannan said he wanted other countries like Denmark, Ireland, the Netherlands to leave and imagined that the UK would "lead a 22-state bloc" outside the EU. > > > > https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/ > > So you admit he didnt say he wanted it to collapse. --------
How many countries leaving constitutes 'collapse'?
> @Luckyguy1983 said: > The Boris case will fail, I think, on the same grounds that manifestos have been legally stated to be unenforceable. > > Its significance is the timing in the middle of the leadership constest, it is at the very least a distraction, possibly a tipping point against his chances. > > Unless he's resoundingly vindicated.
How? By his side proving that the UK did in fact send £350m per week to the EU (but presumably somehow kept it off the books)?
> @GIN1138 said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > @GIN1138 said: > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > Boris and Raab easily beat their main opponents in new ConHome Tory members' next Tory leader poll > > > > > > > > Raab 64% Hunt 26% > > > > > > > > Boris 68% Hunt 25% > > > > > > > > Raab 64% Javid 24% > > > > > > > > Boris 66% Javid 25% > > > > > > > > Raab 56% Gove 35% > > > > > > > > Boris 60% Gove 33% > > > > > > > > https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/05/next-tory-leader-run-offs-our-panels-support-hasnt-changed-they-want-johnson-followed-by-raab-gove-javid-and-hunt-in-that-order.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about Boris/Raab? > > > > Boris wins 51% to 33% but hard to see Tory MPs putting both Boris and Raab in the final 2, more likely one of them will represent the hard Brexit faction > > So basically barring something foreseen happening Boris Johnson or Dominic Raab will be the next PM?
> @dixiedean said: > Can we prosecute Cameron for saying it was stable government under him, or chaos with Ed Miliband? > OK, not an outright provable falsehood at the time he said it. > But it's a good job there isn't an offence under the Predicting Utter and Total Bollocks whilst in Public Office Act.
May predicting Strong and Stable Government is another good one. I remember Anna Soubry's leaflet predicting it.
> @TheWhiteRabbit said: > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving. > > Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution?
I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail.
I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required.
This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors.
I'm unsure what people think they are paying for? In the first round Rory has to convince this Parliamentary colleague. In the second round Rory has to convince his Parliamentary party....
A possible future once the current unpalatables have had their go ?
As a campaign for the current leadership, it’s a very long, unlikely shot. As a means of raising his profile for the future it’s pretty cost effective.
> @Wulfrun_Phil said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > @GIN1138 said: > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > Boris and Raab easily beat their main opponents in new ConHome Tory members' next Tory leader poll > > > > > > > > Raab 64% Hunt 26% > > > > > > > > Boris 68% Hunt 25% > > > > > > > > Raab 64% Javid 24% > > > > > > > > Boris 66% Javid 25% > > > > > > > > Raab 56% Gove 35% > > > > > > > > Boris 60% Gove 33% > > > > > > > > https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/05/next-tory-leader-run-offs-our-panels-support-hasnt-changed-they-want-johnson-followed-by-raab-gove-javid-and-hunt-in-that-order.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about Boris/Raab? > > > > Boris wins 51% to 33% but hard to see Tory MPs putting both Boris and Raab in the final 2, more likely one of them will represent the hard Brexit faction > > It is hard to see Tory MPs putting both Johnson and Raab in the final 3. > > Hunt, Gove and one of Johnson/Raab I suggest, the other having been eliminated in the previous round.
That looks possible then probably whichever of Boris/Raab is eliminated sends their supporters to the other and Gove thus knocking out Hunt and setting up a Gove v Johnson/Raab final two which the latter wins
> @oxfordsimon said: > > @GIN1138 said: > > So basically barring something unforeseen happening Boris Johnson or Dominic Raab will be the next PM? > > There is a long, long way to go. > > And something unforeseen is bound to happen > >
Well we could end up with Esther McVey or Priti Patel or Steve Baker I suppose if by some fluke they make the final two......
> > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving.
>
> Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution?
I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail.
I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required.
This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors.
> > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving.
>
> Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution?
I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail.
I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required.
This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors.
I don't doubt that Johnson is a sociopathic amoral snake. I won't vote for him as Conservative leader.
But if he's what the voters of Uxbridge want as their MP, then so be it.
> @Benpointer said: > > @Luckyguy1983 said: > > The Boris case will fail, I think, on the same grounds that manifestos have been legally stated to be unenforceable. > > > > Its significance is the timing in the middle of the leadership constest, it is at the very least a distraction, possibly a tipping point against his chances. > > > > Unless he's resoundingly vindicated. > > How? By his side proving that the UK did in fact send £350m per week to the EU (but presumably somehow kept it off the books)?
> @RobD said: > > @Benpointer said: > > > @Luckyguy1983 said: > > > The Boris case will fail, I think, on the same grounds that manifestos have been legally stated to be unenforceable. > > > > > > Its significance is the timing in the middle of the leadership constest, it is at the very least a distraction, possibly a tipping point against his chances. > > > > > > Unless he's resoundingly vindicated. > > > > How? By his side proving that the UK did in fact send £350m per week to the EU (but presumably somehow kept it off the books)? > > Says so in the ONS's official report.
> @NickPalmer said: > > @dixiedean said: > > Can we prosecute Cameron for saying it was stable government under him, or chaos with Ed Miliband? > > OK, not an outright provable falsehood at the time he said it. > > But it's a good job there isn't an offence under the Predicting Utter and Total Bollocks whilst in Public Office Act. > > May predicting Strong and Stable Government is another good one. I remember Anna Soubry's leaflet predicting it.
I think May was predicting the future in her warped fantasy world that was reinforced by sycophantic advisers. Mays "Strong and stable" is like Labour's "Tory Boom and Bust": Given 2008/2009/2010. But that was a narrative to be fair.
I think Johnson falls down because he was advocating a specific figure in a past or current context rather than a narrative like "Tory Boom and Bust".
> @Benpointer said: > > @RobD said: > > > @Benpointer said: > > > > @Luckyguy1983 said: > > > > The Boris case will fail, I think, on the same grounds that manifestos have been legally stated to be unenforceable. > > > > > > > > Its significance is the timing in the middle of the leadership constest, it is at the very least a distraction, possibly a tipping point against his chances. > > > > > > > > Unless he's resoundingly vindicated. > > > > > > How? By his side proving that the UK did in fact send £350m per week to the EU (but presumably somehow kept it off the books)? > > > > Says so in the ONS's official report. > > As you well know, it says no such thing.
Pink book, page 125. "UK official transactions with instutitions of the EU". The number under total debits, £19.107bn, or £367mn/week.
> @Sean_F said: > > @TheWhiteRabbit said: > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving. > > > > > > Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution? > > > > I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail. > > > > I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required. > > > > This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors. > > > @TheWhiteRabbit said: > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving. > > > > > > Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution? > > > > I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail. > > > > I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required. > > > > This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors. > > I don't doubt that Johnson is a sociopathic amoral snake. I won't vote for him as Conservative leader. > > But if he's what the voters of Uxbridge want as their MP, then so be it.
If we end up with Boris v Gove then as the final two is that a choice between a sociopathic amoral snake and a psychopathic Machiavellian lizard as the next leader of our party and country then?
> @RobD said: > > @Benpointer said: > > > @RobD said: > > > > @Benpointer said: > > > > > @Luckyguy1983 said: > > > > > The Boris case will fail, I think, on the same grounds that manifestos have been legally stated to be unenforceable. > > > > > > > > > > Its significance is the timing in the middle of the leadership constest, it is at the very least a distraction, possibly a tipping point against his chances. > > > > > > > > > > Unless he's resoundingly vindicated. > > > > > > > > How? By his side proving that the UK did in fact send £350m per week to the EU (but presumably somehow kept it off the books)? > > > > > > Says so in the ONS's official report. > > > > As you well know, it says no such thing. > > Pink book, page 125. "UK official transactions with instutitions of the EU". The number under total debits, £19.107bn, or £367mn/week. > > https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/bulletins/unitedkingdombalanceofpaymentsthepinkbook/2016
Well I'd like to do business with you if you are not going to offset what I owe you from what you owe me before settling up.
> @Jonathan said: > Matt Hancock. Oh dear. What a shame.
Just out of interest when you watch Hancock do you think he comes across as being sly? I find something deeply untrustworthy about him! He is not going to ever become Tory leader as he is about as useful as a cardboard cut out and as sly as a magpie!
> @HYUFD said: > > @Sean_F said: > > > @TheWhiteRabbit said: > > > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > > > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving. > > > > > > > > > > Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution? > > > > > > > > I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail. > > > > > > > > I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required. > > > > > > > > This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors. > > > > > @TheWhiteRabbit said: > > > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > > > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving. > > > > > > > > > > Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution? > > > > > > > > I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail. > > > > > > > > I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required. > > > > > > > > This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors. > > > > I don't doubt that Johnson is a sociopathic amoral snake. I won't vote for him as Conservative leader. > > > > But if he's what the voters of Uxbridge want as their MP, then so be it. > > If we end up with Boris v Gove then as the final two is that a choice between a sociopathic amoral snake and a psychopathic Machiavellian lizard as the next leader of our party and country then?
> @Benpointer said: > > @Jonathan said: > > > @GIN1138 said: > > > > @Jonathan said: > > > > Matt Hancock. Oh dear. What a shame. > > > > > > Clueless > > > > It’s painful to watch. > > For those of us not watching do please summarise
He made a few claims about a new Brexit policy he couldn’t substantiate. He couldn’t answer questions, got close to calling May a liar and ended up reduced to repeating sound bites, poorly.
> @Sean_F said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > @Sean_F said: > > > > @TheWhiteRabbit said: > > > > > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > > > > > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution? > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required. > > > > > > > > > > > > This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors. > > > > > > > @TheWhiteRabbit said: > > > > > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > > > > > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution? > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required. > > > > > > > > > > > > This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors. > > > > > > I don't doubt that Johnson is a sociopathic amoral snake. I won't vote for him as Conservative leader. > > > > > > But if he's what the voters of Uxbridge want as their MP, then so be it. > > > > If we end up with Boris v Gove then as the final two is that a choice between a sociopathic amoral snake and a psychopathic Machiavellian lizard as the next leader of our party and country then? > > It's not a great choice.
Gove will tear us apart. Rump Con, a Joyless Division of the LibDems.....
Rory Stewart is the New Order for a Blue Monday.
Far be it from me to suggest the list of 17 names so far is an Atrocity Exhibition......
New Dawn Fades. Seems somehow apposite...
A change of speed, a change of style A change of scene, with no regrets A chance to watch, admire the distance Still occupied, though you forget Different colors, different shades Over each mistakes were made I took the blame Directionless so plain to see A loaded gun won't set you free So you say We'll share a drink and step outside An angry voice and one who cried 'We'll give you everything and more The strain is too much, can't take much more Oh, I've walked on water, run through fire Can't seem to feel it anymore It was me, waiting for me Hoping for something more Me, seeing me this time Hoping for something else...
I think Rory Stewart will have ended his aspirations with this admission on smoking opium. I don't think the Grass roots (No pun intended) will approve!
Gove will tear us apart. Rump Con, a Joyless Division of the LibDems.....
Rory Stewart is the New Order for a Blue Monday.
Far be it from me to suggest the list of 17 names so far is an Atrocity Exhibition......
She's Lost Control (A quick summary of Theresa May's speech last week)...
Confusion in her eyes that says it all She's lost control And she's clinging to the nearest passer by She's lost control And she gave away the secrets of her past And said, "I've lost control again" And a voice that told her when and where to act She said, "I've lost control again"
And she turned around and took me by the hand And said, "I've lost control again" And how I'll never know just why or understand She said, "I've lost control again" And she screamed out, kicking on her side, and said "I've lost control again" And seized up on the floor, I thought she'd die She said, "I've lost control"
> For those of us not watching do please summarise
He made a few claims about a new Brexit policy he couldn’t substantiate. He couldn’t answer questions, got close to calling May a liar and ended up reduced to repeating sound bites, poorly.
It really is popcorn time. The self delusion of some of these wannabees is really quite amusing.
This tool is in charge of the NHS. We are up shut creek and he is paddling.
Hunt on Peston now says on a binary choice between No Deal and No Brexit he would choose No Deal, just if you were not clear on his position beforehand
So far Rory Stewart is the only person standing that could persuade me to vote Conservative again. He comes across as thoughtful, intelligent and as if he is actually thinking about what he says before saying it. Even the reader comments under this Guardian article aren't too bad, if you ignore the usual ones about Brexit: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/28/tory-leadership-contender-rory-stewart-principle-power
I can't see him winning this time, but once the Conservatives are ready for a more moderate leader surely he must stand a decent chance? Even if he never wins he seems like he'd probably make a good Foreign Secretary.
> @HYUFD said: > Hunt on Peston now says on a binary choice between No Deal and No Brexit he would choose No Deal, just if you were not clear on his position beforehand
Maybe he has been smoking something as well! In the DT article it states the former Health sec. drank some cannabis lassi in the past.
> @HYUFD said: > Hunt on Peston now says on a binary choice between No Deal and No Brexit he would choose No Deal, just if you were not clear on his position beforehand.
However Hunt also refuses to commit to leave in October as he says that would require a general election which he does not want
> > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving.
>
> Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution?
I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail.
I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required.
This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors.
Financial advisors, eh! That’s not a very high bar.
> @Cyclefree said: > > @Gallowgate said: > > > https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1133813183234400256 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So far Rory Stewart is the only person standing that could persuade me to vote Conservative again. He comes across as thoughtful, intelligent and as if he is actually thinking about what he says before saying it. Even the reader comments under this Guardian article aren't too bad, if you ignore the usual ones about Brexit: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/28/tory-leadership-contender-rory-stewart-principle-power > > > > I can't see him winning this time, but once the Conservatives are ready for a more moderate leader surely he must stand a decent chance? Even if he never wins he seems like he'd probably make a good Foreign Secretary. > > + 1
Rory picked the wrong party. He’s far too human. They’ll back a cold machine like Raab over him.
Len McCluskey on Peston tells Labour 'not to be spooked by the European elections' and commit to another EU referendum and says Labour must stay the party 'to unite a divided nation'
> @The_Taxman said: > > @HYUFD said: > > Hunt on Peston now says on a binary choice between No Deal and No Brexit he would choose No Deal, just if you were not clear on his position beforehand > > Maybe he has been smoking something as well! In the DT article it states the former Health sec. drank some cannabis lassi in the past.
This is getting like the 2001 Tory modernisers all confessing their drug taking past to annoy Ann Widdecombe
> @PClipp said: > > @Ishmael_Z said: > > > @Scott_P said: > > > https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1133839499493089280 > > > > And that headline is the entire point of the prosecution. Job done. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. > > It seems to me that Boris is looking about ten years older than he was last week. Is he worrying about something? >
He glimpsed within himself for a moment, and realised he is, and always has been, a catastrophic mountebank.
Comments
> https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1133835766050807808
Any via Paypal?
"Anyway, the new Tory leader is irrelevant.
The Brexit Party won the Euros, so they're the only party with the mandate to negotiate with the EU about Brexit.
................................................................................
I must have missed the bit where the Brexit Party had formed a government and Nigel had trooped off the Buck House for his first weekly chat with the Queen.
Funny what a trip to Oxford does to the memory ....
In 2017 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at nearly £9 billion.
Each year the UK gets a discount on its contributions to the EU—the ‘rebate’—worth about £5.6 billion last year. Without it the UK would have been liable for £18.6 billion in contributions.
[..]
It’s been claimed that we send £350 million a week to the EU. That misses out the rebate, and it doesn’t represent the total economic costs and benefits of EU membership to the UK.
£350 million is roughly what we would pay to the EU budget without the rebate. The UK actually paid closer to £250 million a week.
The UK Statistics Authority has said the EU membership fee figure of £19 billion a year, or £350 million a week, is "not an amount of money that the UK pays to the EU each year".
Since then, the new chair of the Authority described use of the figure by the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, as “a clear misuse of official statistics”.
https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/
> > @Sean_F said:
> > > @Scott_P said:
> > > Suggested elsewhere, it should not be illegal to lie in a campaign, but it should bar you from holding public office again...
> >
> > We'd have very few people left in public life. Everyone simplifies, exaggerates, distorts, spins, to get their case across. And, that has always been the case, ever since politics was invented.
>
> Just like footallers complaining about a ref who gives out too many yellow cards. You only need four or five who get banned from holding public office before all of the others realise and start taking an interest in making statements that they can back up.
>
> But anyway the 350m was not spin or distortion, it was a blatant lie which was repeated after it was shown to be a lie.
No. You end up with people just suing each other over every political claim they make.
I get that the true figure was £280m a week, not £350m a week, but I really don't see that as being much of a basis for a court claim.
Raab 64% Hunt 26%
Boris 68% Hunt 25%
Raab 64% Javid 24%
Boris 66% Javid 25%
Raab 56% Gove 35%
Boris 60% Gove 33%
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/05/next-tory-leader-run-offs-our-panels-support-hasnt-changed-they-want-johnson-followed-by-raab-gove-javid-and-hunt-in-that-order.html
> > @Casino_Royale said:
> > > @Casino_Royale said:
> >
> > > > @Casino_Royale said:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > @Casino_Royale said:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > Good to see that Leavers are huffing and puffing to be allowed to lie without consequence. I’m not sure that’s going to be very saleable to the general public.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > If I’m honest, Alastair, I’m very surprised to see you taking the position you have on this; I can only assume out of anger over the original Leave campaign itself.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > There are ultra hard Remainers - like Jo Maugham QC - who have added their voices to concerns over this today, and underlined that political sanctions should be the punishment and not the criminal law.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > I’d have thought, as someone with a firm legal background and strong morals, that you’d be the same.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Strong morals require that lying for profit has consequences. All I see is Leavers saying that lying for profit for a cause they approve of should be given a free pass.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > I don’t think anyone is saying that.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > The political consequences are real and clear.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > He’s favourite to be next Prime Minister.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > The markets are overrating his chances.
> >
> >
> >
> > I was making the point that the political consequences are far from real and clear. The lying has been so far consequence-free.
> >
> > He’s gone from being a unifying figure to a divisive figure, split his siblings, fractured his own family, and lost respect of many of his colleagues.
> >
> > I’d say the consequences have been clear.
>
> If he becomes Prime Minister he’ll cry all the way to the bank.
If he becomes PM it will be because of the failure of those in post allowing him the opportunity. Not something he could have expected.
> https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1133835766050807808
For all our complaints about political funding it is refreshing that such amounts are noteworthy. Presidential campaigns consume around $3bn (across all the candidates) with another $4bn spent on the simultaneous Congressional campaigns!
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/05/next-tory-leader-run-offs-our-panels-support-hasnt-changed-they-want-johnson-followed-by-raab-gove-javid-and-hunt-in-that-order.html
> Boris and Raab easily beat their main opponents in new ConHome Tory members' next Tory leader poll
>
> Raab 64% Hunt 26%
>
> Boris 68% Hunt 25%
>
> Raab 64% Javid 24%
>
> Boris 66% Javid 25%
>
> Raab 56% Gove 35%
>
> Boris 60% Gove 33%
>
> https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/05/next-tory-leader-run-offs-our-panels-support-hasnt-changed-they-want-johnson-followed-by-raab-gove-javid-and-hunt-in-that-order.html
>
>
What about Boris/Raab?
> https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1133835766050807808
I'm unsure what people think they are paying for? In the first round Rory has to convince this Parliamentary colleague. In the second round Rory has to convince his Parliamentary party.
I doubt having a lot of money will make much difference to this particular selectorate...
Gove 49% Hunt 20%
Gove 47% Javid 27%
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/05/next-tory-leader-run-offs-our-panels-support-hasnt-changed-they-want-johnson-followed-by-raab-gove-javid-and-hunt-in-that-order.html
> @MarkHopkins said:
>
> "Anyway, the new Tory leader is irrelevant.
>
> The Brexit Party won the Euros, so they're the only party with the mandate to negotiate with the EU about Brexit.
>
> ................................................................................
>
> I must have missed the bit where the Brexit Party had formed a government and Nigel had trooped off the Buck House for his first weekly chat with the Queen.
>
> Funny what a trip to Oxford does to the memory ....
>
>
>
>
You should have said; I'd have got you a dram at the Bear!
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/05/next-tory-leader-run-offs-our-panels-support-hasnt-changed-they-want-johnson-followed-by-raab-gove-javid-and-hunt-in-that-order.html
> If it is Gove v Hunt or Javid, then Gove wins
>
>
> Gove 49% Hunt 20%
>
> Gove 47% Javid 27%
>
> https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/05/next-tory-leader-run-offs-our-panels-support-hasnt-changed-they-want-johnson-followed-by-raab-gove-javid-and-hunt-in-that-order.html
>
>
>
And the Conservative Party will have damn all activists in that case.
Gove will tear us apart. Rump Con, a Joyless Division of the LibDems.....
> > @HYUFD said:
> > > @Peter_the_Punter said:
> > > > @OllyT said:
> > > > > @MarkHopkins said:
> > > > > > @williamglenn said:
> > > > >
> > > > > > https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1133755079448813568
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The domino effect that some leavers assured us would happen after Brexit has had exactly the opposite effect . What a surprise!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, we haven't actually Brexitted yet
> > > >
> > > > The domino effect was predicted to occur after we had voted to leave and instead support for the EU has increased elsewhere and I believe that AfD in Germany, 5 star in Italy and the Front National in France have dropped exiting the EU from their policies. Are you arguing that once we have actually left the domino effect will kick in? Care to name, say, the next couple of countries that will follow our lead?
> > >
> > > Tusk nailed it again when he said the Brexit experience had been noted by other EU countries, and reduced the propensity to leave, pretty much across the board.
> >
> > Salvini is trying to form an anti EU alliance and will likely be the next Italian PM on Sunday's results, Le Pen topped the poll in France so while nationalists are not a majority in the EU they are still a significant force
>
> Yes, but the idea of Frexit or Italexit or pretty much any kind of Exit seems to be on the back burner for the time being, no?
Yes but I would argue it was never likely in the first place, at most Brexit would lead to an enlarged EFTA not the whole EU and Eurozone breaking apart in my view
> https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1133839499493089280
And that headline is the entire point of the prosecution. Job done. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
> > @Scott_P said:
> > https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1133839499493089280
>
> And that headline is the entire point of the prosecution. Job done. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
It is actually brilliant news for Boris, now he can be a martyr against the pro EU legal establishment
> > @HYUFD said:
> >
> > Except in Italy as the Salvini surge confirms but to be fair Brexiteers like Hannan never said they wanted the EU to collapse, they just wanted to UK to join Switzerland and Norway etc outside it rather then become part of a Federal EU
> --------
>
> Hannan said he wanted other countries like Denmark, Ireland, the Netherlands to leave and imagined that the UK would "lead a 22-state bloc" outside the EU.
>
> https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/
So you admit he didnt say he wanted it to collapse.
> > @HYUFD said:
> > Boris and Raab easily beat their main opponents in new ConHome Tory members' next Tory leader poll
> >
> > Raab 64% Hunt 26%
> >
> > Boris 68% Hunt 25%
> >
> > Raab 64% Javid 24%
> >
> > Boris 66% Javid 25%
> >
> > Raab 56% Gove 35%
> >
> > Boris 60% Gove 33%
> >
> > https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/05/next-tory-leader-run-offs-our-panels-support-hasnt-changed-they-want-johnson-followed-by-raab-gove-javid-and-hunt-in-that-order.html
> >
> >
>
> What about Boris/Raab?
Boris wins 51% to 33% but hard to see Tory MPs putting both Boris and Raab in the final 2, more likely one of them will represent the hard Brexit faction
> > @HYUFD said:
> > If it is Gove v Hunt or Javid, then Gove wins
> >
> >
> > Gove 49% Hunt 20%
> >
> > Gove 47% Javid 27%
> >
> > https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/05/next-tory-leader-run-offs-our-panels-support-hasnt-changed-they-want-johnson-followed-by-raab-gove-javid-and-hunt-in-that-order.html
> >
> >
> >
>
> And the Conservative Party will have damn all activists in that case.
>
> Gove will tear us apart. Rump Con, a Joyless Division of the LibDems.....
He is at least bright but yes he would be squeezed between Farage and Corbyn
> So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving.
Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution?
> The Boris case will fail, I think, on the same grounds that manifestos have been legally stated to be unenforceable.
>
> Its significance is the timing in the middle of the leadership constest, it is at the very least a distraction, possibly a tipping point against his chances.
>
> Unless he's resoundingly vindicated.
I'm not so sure - it's one thing to say that we plan to do x, it's another thing to state something about the here and now (we spend £350m a week on the EU) that isn't true.
> > @williamglenn said:
> > > @HYUFD said:
> > >
> > > Except in Italy as the Salvini surge confirms but to be fair Brexiteers like Hannan never said they wanted the EU to collapse, they just wanted to UK to join Switzerland and Norway etc outside it rather then become part of a Federal EU
> > --------
> >
> > Hannan said he wanted other countries like Denmark, Ireland, the Netherlands to leave and imagined that the UK would "lead a 22-state bloc" outside the EU.
> >
> > https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/
>
> So you admit he didnt say he wanted it to collapse.
--------
How many countries leaving constitutes 'collapse'?
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > > @HYUFD said:
> > > Boris and Raab easily beat their main opponents in new ConHome Tory members' next Tory leader poll
> > >
> > > Raab 64% Hunt 26%
> > >
> > > Boris 68% Hunt 25%
> > >
> > > Raab 64% Javid 24%
> > >
> > > Boris 66% Javid 25%
> > >
> > > Raab 56% Gove 35%
> > >
> > > Boris 60% Gove 33%
> > >
> > > https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/05/next-tory-leader-run-offs-our-panels-support-hasnt-changed-they-want-johnson-followed-by-raab-gove-javid-and-hunt-in-that-order.html
> > >
> > >
> >
> > What about Boris/Raab?
>
> Boris wins 51% to 33% but hard to see Tory MPs putting both Boris and Raab in the final 2, more likely one of them will represent the hard Brexit faction
So basically barring something unforeseen happening Boris Johnson or Dominic Raab will be the next PM?
> The Boris case will fail, I think, on the same grounds that manifestos have been legally stated to be unenforceable.
>
> Its significance is the timing in the middle of the leadership constest, it is at the very least a distraction, possibly a tipping point against his chances.
>
> Unless he's resoundingly vindicated.
How? By his side proving that the UK did in fact send £350m per week to the EU (but presumably somehow kept it off the books)?
> > @HYUFD said:
> > > @GIN1138 said:
> > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > Boris and Raab easily beat their main opponents in new ConHome Tory members' next Tory leader poll
> > > >
> > > > Raab 64% Hunt 26%
> > > >
> > > > Boris 68% Hunt 25%
> > > >
> > > > Raab 64% Javid 24%
> > > >
> > > > Boris 66% Javid 25%
> > > >
> > > > Raab 56% Gove 35%
> > > >
> > > > Boris 60% Gove 33%
> > > >
> > > > https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/05/next-tory-leader-run-offs-our-panels-support-hasnt-changed-they-want-johnson-followed-by-raab-gove-javid-and-hunt-in-that-order.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > What about Boris/Raab?
> >
> > Boris wins 51% to 33% but hard to see Tory MPs putting both Boris and Raab in the final 2, more likely one of them will represent the hard Brexit faction
>
> So basically barring something foreseen happening Boris Johnson or Dominic Raab will be the next PM?
I foresee something unforeseen happening.
> Can we prosecute Cameron for saying it was stable government under him, or chaos with Ed Miliband?
> OK, not an outright provable falsehood at the time he said it.
> But it's a good job there isn't an offence under the Predicting Utter and Total Bollocks whilst in Public Office Act.
May predicting Strong and Stable Government is another good one. I remember Anna Soubry's leaflet predicting it.
> So basically barring something unforeseen happening Boris Johnson or Dominic Raab will be the next PM?
There is a long, long way to go.
And something unforeseen is bound to happen
> > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving.
>
> Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution?
I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail.
I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required.
This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors.
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > > @HYUFD said:
> > > Boris and Raab easily beat their main opponents in new ConHome Tory members' next Tory leader poll
> > >
> > > Raab 64% Hunt 26%
> > >
> > > Boris 68% Hunt 25%
> > >
> > > Raab 64% Javid 24%
> > >
> > > Boris 66% Javid 25%
> > >
> > > Raab 56% Gove 35%
> > >
> > > Boris 60% Gove 33%
> > >
> > > https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/05/next-tory-leader-run-offs-our-panels-support-hasnt-changed-they-want-johnson-followed-by-raab-gove-javid-and-hunt-in-that-order.html
> > >
> > >
> >
> > What about Boris/Raab?
>
> Boris wins 51% to 33% but hard to see Tory MPs putting both Boris and Raab in the final 2, more likely one of them will represent the hard Brexit faction
It is hard to see Tory MPs putting both Johnson and Raab in the final 3.
Hunt, Gove and one of Johnson/Raab I suggest, the other having been eliminated in the previous round.
> > @HYUFD said:
>
> > If it is Gove v Hunt or Javid, then Gove wins
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Gove 49% Hunt 20%
>
> >
>
> > Gove 47% Javid 27%
>
> >
>
> > https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/05/next-tory-leader-run-offs-our-panels-support-hasnt-changed-they-want-johnson-followed-by-raab-gove-javid-and-hunt-in-that-order.html
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
> And the Conservative Party will have damn all activists in that case.
>
>
>
> Gove will tear us apart. Rump Con, a Joyless Division of the LibDems.....
>
> Rory Stewart is the New Order for a Blue Monday.
Far be it from me to suggest the list of 17 names so far is an Atrocity Exhibition......
As a campaign for the current leadership, it’s a very long, unlikely shot. As a means of raising his profile for the future it’s pretty cost effective.
And as a self confessed dope fiend, he’s sewn up SeanT’s future support...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/29/rory-stewart-admits-smoking-opium-spell-iran-tells-telegraph/
> > @HYUFD said:
> > > @GIN1138 said:
> > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > Boris and Raab easily beat their main opponents in new ConHome Tory members' next Tory leader poll
> > > >
> > > > Raab 64% Hunt 26%
> > > >
> > > > Boris 68% Hunt 25%
> > > >
> > > > Raab 64% Javid 24%
> > > >
> > > > Boris 66% Javid 25%
> > > >
> > > > Raab 56% Gove 35%
> > > >
> > > > Boris 60% Gove 33%
> > > >
> > > > https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/05/next-tory-leader-run-offs-our-panels-support-hasnt-changed-they-want-johnson-followed-by-raab-gove-javid-and-hunt-in-that-order.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > What about Boris/Raab?
> >
> > Boris wins 51% to 33% but hard to see Tory MPs putting both Boris and Raab in the final 2, more likely one of them will represent the hard Brexit faction
>
> It is hard to see Tory MPs putting both Johnson and Raab in the final 3.
>
> Hunt, Gove and one of Johnson/Raab I suggest, the other having been eliminated in the previous round.
That looks possible then probably whichever of Boris/Raab is eliminated sends their supporters to the other and Gove thus knocking out Hunt and setting up a Gove v Johnson/Raab final two which the latter wins
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > So basically barring something unforeseen happening Boris Johnson or Dominic Raab will be the next PM?
>
> There is a long, long way to go.
>
> And something unforeseen is bound to happen
>
>
Well we could end up with Esther McVey or Priti Patel or Steve Baker I suppose if by some fluke they make the final two......
But if he's what the voters of Uxbridge want as their MP, then so be it.
> > @Luckyguy1983 said:
> > The Boris case will fail, I think, on the same grounds that manifestos have been legally stated to be unenforceable.
> >
> > Its significance is the timing in the middle of the leadership constest, it is at the very least a distraction, possibly a tipping point against his chances.
> >
> > Unless he's resoundingly vindicated.
>
> How? By his side proving that the UK did in fact send £350m per week to the EU (but presumably somehow kept it off the books)?
Says so in the ONS's official report.
> > @Benpointer said:
> > > @Luckyguy1983 said:
> > > The Boris case will fail, I think, on the same grounds that manifestos have been legally stated to be unenforceable.
> > >
> > > Its significance is the timing in the middle of the leadership constest, it is at the very least a distraction, possibly a tipping point against his chances.
> > >
> > > Unless he's resoundingly vindicated.
> >
> > How? By his side proving that the UK did in fact send £350m per week to the EU (but presumably somehow kept it off the books)?
>
> Says so in the ONS's official report.
As you well know, it says no such thing.
> > @dixiedean said:
> > Can we prosecute Cameron for saying it was stable government under him, or chaos with Ed Miliband?
> > OK, not an outright provable falsehood at the time he said it.
> > But it's a good job there isn't an offence under the Predicting Utter and Total Bollocks whilst in Public Office Act.
>
> May predicting Strong and Stable Government is another good one. I remember Anna Soubry's leaflet predicting it.
I think May was predicting the future in her warped fantasy world that was reinforced by sycophantic advisers. Mays "Strong and stable" is like Labour's "Tory Boom and Bust": Given 2008/2009/2010. But that was a narrative to be fair.
I think Johnson falls down because he was advocating a specific figure in a past or current context rather than a narrative like "Tory Boom and Bust".
> > @RobD said:
> > > @Benpointer said:
> > > > @Luckyguy1983 said:
> > > > The Boris case will fail, I think, on the same grounds that manifestos have been legally stated to be unenforceable.
> > > >
> > > > Its significance is the timing in the middle of the leadership constest, it is at the very least a distraction, possibly a tipping point against his chances.
> > > >
> > > > Unless he's resoundingly vindicated.
> > >
> > > How? By his side proving that the UK did in fact send £350m per week to the EU (but presumably somehow kept it off the books)?
> >
> > Says so in the ONS's official report.
>
> As you well know, it says no such thing.
Pink book, page 125. "UK official transactions with instutitions of the EU". The number under total debits, £19.107bn, or £367mn/week.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/bulletins/unitedkingdombalanceofpaymentsthepinkbook/2016
> > @TheWhiteRabbit said:
>
> > > @AlastairMeeks said:
>
> > > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving.
>
> >
>
> > Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution?
>
>
>
> I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail.
>
>
>
> I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required.
>
>
>
> This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors.
>
> > @TheWhiteRabbit said:
>
> > > @AlastairMeeks said:
>
> > > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving.
>
> >
>
> > Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution?
>
>
>
> I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail.
>
>
>
> I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required.
>
>
>
> This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors.
>
> I don't doubt that Johnson is a sociopathic amoral snake. I won't vote for him as Conservative leader.
>
> But if he's what the voters of Uxbridge want as their MP, then so be it.
If we end up with Boris v Gove then as the final two is that a choice between a sociopathic amoral snake and a psychopathic Machiavellian lizard as the next leader of our party and country then?
> Matt Hancock. Oh dear. What a shame.
Clueless
> > @Jonathan said:
> > Matt Hancock. Oh dear. What a shame.
>
> Clueless
It’s painful to watch.
> > @Benpointer said:
> > > @RobD said:
> > > > @Benpointer said:
> > > > > @Luckyguy1983 said:
> > > > > The Boris case will fail, I think, on the same grounds that manifestos have been legally stated to be unenforceable.
> > > > >
> > > > > Its significance is the timing in the middle of the leadership constest, it is at the very least a distraction, possibly a tipping point against his chances.
> > > > >
> > > > > Unless he's resoundingly vindicated.
> > > >
> > > > How? By his side proving that the UK did in fact send £350m per week to the EU (but presumably somehow kept it off the books)?
> > >
> > > Says so in the ONS's official report.
> >
> > As you well know, it says no such thing.
>
> Pink book, page 125. "UK official transactions with instutitions of the EU". The number under total debits, £19.107bn, or £367mn/week.
>
> https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/bulletins/unitedkingdombalanceofpaymentsthepinkbook/2016
Well I'd like to do business with you if you are not going to offset what I owe you from what you owe me before settling up.
Pink book, page 125. Balance -£10.353bn.
> Matt Hancock. Oh dear. What a shame.
Just out of interest when you watch Hancock do you think he comes across as being sly? I find something deeply untrustworthy about him! He is not going to ever become Tory leader as he is about as useful as a cardboard cut out and as sly as a magpie!
> Matt Hancock. Oh dear. What a shame.
"We need fresh thinking... which is why I present this reheated idea you will have heard about continuously for months..."
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > > @Jonathan said:
> > > Matt Hancock. Oh dear. What a shame.
> >
> > Clueless
>
> It’s painful to watch.
I agree.
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > > @Jonathan said:
> > > Matt Hancock. Oh dear. What a shame.
> >
> > Clueless
>
> It’s painful to watch.
For those of us not watching do please summarise
> > @Sean_F said:
> > > @TheWhiteRabbit said:
> >
> > > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> >
> > > > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution?
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail.
> >
> >
> >
> > I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required.
> >
> >
> >
> > This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors.
> >
> > > @TheWhiteRabbit said:
> >
> > > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> >
> > > > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution?
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail.
> >
> >
> >
> > I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required.
> >
> >
> >
> > This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors.
> >
> > I don't doubt that Johnson is a sociopathic amoral snake. I won't vote for him as Conservative leader.
> >
> > But if he's what the voters of Uxbridge want as their MP, then so be it.
>
> If we end up with Boris v Gove then as the final two is that a choice between a sociopathic amoral snake and a psychopathic Machiavellian lizard as the next leader of our party and country then?
It's not a great choice.
> > @Jonathan said:
> > > @GIN1138 said:
> > > > @Jonathan said:
> > > > Matt Hancock. Oh dear. What a shame.
> > >
> > > Clueless
> >
> > It’s painful to watch.
>
> For those of us not watching do please summarise
He made a few claims about a new Brexit policy he couldn’t substantiate. He couldn’t answer questions, got close to calling May a liar and ended up reduced to repeating sound bites, poorly.
> > @HYUFD said:
> > > @Sean_F said:
> > > > @TheWhiteRabbit said:
> > >
> > > > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > >
> > > > > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors.
> > >
> > > > @TheWhiteRabbit said:
> > >
> > > > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > >
> > > > > So the Brains Trust are of the view that, uniquely, politicians should be allowed to lie for profit. I can’t help feeling that’s self-serving.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Do you think Boris is unhappy with the this soon-to-be-failed prosecution?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m sure it will play well with his selectorate. As you say, it will fail.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I don’t, however, see any vice in pursuing public dishonesty and if public discourse is not to be fatally contaminated then some form of criminal sanction against straightforward lies for profit is going to be required.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This does not seem unreasonable to me. I don’t see why we should expect less of politicians than of financial advisors.
> > >
> > > I don't doubt that Johnson is a sociopathic amoral snake. I won't vote for him as Conservative leader.
> > >
> > > But if he's what the voters of Uxbridge want as their MP, then so be it.
> >
> > If we end up with Boris v Gove then as the final two is that a choice between a sociopathic amoral snake and a psychopathic Machiavellian lizard as the next leader of our party and country then?
>
> It's not a great choice.
“psychopathic Machiavellian lizard”
That’s a keeper.
> > @Jonathan said:
> > > @GIN1138 said:
> > > > @Jonathan said:
> > > > Matt Hancock. Oh dear. What a shame.
> > >
> > > Clueless
> >
> > It’s painful to watch.
>
> For those of us not watching do please summarise
Emma - So you are saying to me that the EU will renegotiate because you are not T May.
Handycock - umm, err, waffle, wiff waff, yes.
A change of speed, a change of style
A change of scene, with no regrets
A chance to watch, admire the distance
Still occupied, though you forget
Different colors, different shades
Over each mistakes were made
I took the blame
Directionless so plain to see
A loaded gun won't set you free
So you say
We'll share a drink and step outside
An angry voice and one who cried
'We'll give you everything and more
The strain is too much, can't take much more
Oh, I've walked on water, run through fire
Can't seem to feel it anymore
It was me, waiting for me
Hoping for something more
Me, seeing me this time
Hoping for something else...
video here...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/29/rory-stewart-admits-smoking-opium-spell-iran-tells-telegraph/
https://twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1133853047744897024?s=21
> I think Rory Stewart will have ended his aspirations with this admission on smoking opium. I don't think the Grass roots (No pun intended) will approve!
>
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/29/rory-stewart-admits-smoking-opium-spell-iran-tells-telegraph/
Explains why he wants the leadership at this time.
Confusion in her eyes that says it all
She's lost control
And she's clinging to the nearest passer by
She's lost control
And she gave away the secrets of her past
And said, "I've lost control again"
And a voice that told her when and where to act
She said, "I've lost control again"
And she turned around and took me by the hand
And said, "I've lost control again"
And how I'll never know just why or understand
She said, "I've lost control again"
And she screamed out, kicking on her side, and said
"I've lost control again"
And seized up on the floor, I thought she'd die
She said, "I've lost control"
video here...
> > @The_Taxman said:
> > I think Rory Stewart will have ended his aspirations with this admission on smoking opium. I don't think the Grass roots (No pun intended) will approve!
> >
> > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/29/rory-stewart-admits-smoking-opium-spell-iran-tells-telegraph/
>
> Explains why he wants the leadership at this time.
lol
> I think Rory Stewart will have ended his aspirations with this admission on smoking opium. I don't think the Grass roots (No pun intended) will approve!
>
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/29/rory-stewart-admits-smoking-opium-spell-iran-tells-telegraph/
Nonsense. He was just displaying his usual good manners.
This tool is in charge of the NHS. We are up shut creek and he is paddling.
> > @The_Taxman said:
> > I think Rory Stewart will have ended his aspirations with this admission on smoking opium. I don't think the Grass roots (No pun intended) will approve!
> >
> > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/29/rory-stewart-admits-smoking-opium-spell-iran-tells-telegraph/
>
> Explains why he wants the leadership at this time.
Being certifiably insane might also explain a wish to take May’s place, though.
> > @AndyJS said:
> > Latest endorsements from Tory MPs:
> >
> > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1feCjt98HJcY9tlc5Zx78ZoSOC2fN-j0vRVFD5eUTbUE/edit#gid=0
>
> is there a histgoram function in Google sheets that returns the number of entries for a given category? That might be a nice way to tally the scores from both sources.
I don't know but I've sorted the candidates in sheets 2 and 3.
> I think Rory Stewart will have ended his aspirations with this admission on smoking opium. I don't think the Grass roots (No pun intended) will approve!
>
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/29/rory-stewart-admits-smoking-opium-spell-iran-tells-telegraph/
People usually often refer to politicians as Hawks or Doves, but I didn't think they meant THIS kind of thing.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1133848836076654593
> Hunt on Peston now says on a binary choice between No Deal and No Brexit he would choose No Deal, just if you were not clear on his position beforehand
Maybe he has been smoking something as well! In the DT article it states the former Health sec. drank some cannabis lassi in the past.
> OMG
>
> https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1133848836076654593
Was was he barking in Kew Gardens ?
> Hunt on Peston now says on a binary choice between No Deal and No Brexit he would choose No Deal, just if you were not clear on his position beforehand.
However Hunt also refuses to commit to leave in October as he says that would require a general election which he does not want
> > @rottenborough said:
> > OMG
> >
> > https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1133848836076654593
>
> Was was he barking in Kew Gardens ?
>
>
He obviously felt rough!
I found out the other day that the naked model in the rabbit mask was Gwendoline Christie, who played Brienne of Tarth in GoT.
Yes, seriously
> > @Gallowgate said:
>
> > https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1133813183234400256
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
> So far Rory Stewart is the only person standing that could persuade me to vote Conservative again. He comes across as thoughtful, intelligent and as if he is actually thinking about what he says before saying it. Even the reader comments under this Guardian article aren't too bad, if you ignore the usual ones about Brexit: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/28/tory-leadership-contender-rory-stewart-principle-power
>
>
>
> I can't see him winning this time, but once the Conservatives are ready for a more moderate leader surely he must stand a decent chance? Even if he never wins he seems like he'd probably make a good Foreign Secretary.
>
> + 1
Rory picked the wrong party. He’s far too human. They’ll back a cold machine like Raab over him.
https://twitter.com/magnusllewellin/status/1133854516045144064?s=21
> > @Scott_P said:
> > https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1133839499493089280
>
> And that headline is the entire point of the prosecution. Job done. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
It seems to me that Boris is looking about ten years older than he was last week. Is he worrying about something?
> > @HYUFD said:
> > Hunt on Peston now says on a binary choice between No Deal and No Brexit he would choose No Deal, just if you were not clear on his position beforehand
>
> Maybe he has been smoking something as well! In the DT article it states the former Health sec. drank some cannabis lassi in the past.
This is getting like the 2001 Tory modernisers all confessing their drug taking past to annoy Ann Widdecombe
> > @Ishmael_Z said:
> > > @Scott_P said:
> > > https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1133839499493089280
> >
> > And that headline is the entire point of the prosecution. Job done. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
>
> It seems to me that Boris is looking about ten years older than he was last week. Is he worrying about something?
>
He glimpsed within himself for a moment, and realised he is, and always has been, a catastrophic mountebank.