> @twistedfirestopper3 said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > @felix said: > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > > @ah009 said: > > > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > > > > @stodge said: > > > > > > > Seeking out positives for the Tories (it's not easy), one possible silver lining is the clear evidence that people REALLY don't want to vote for Corbyn. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If there was a GE now he could not win. I do not believe he would win at any point, or in any circumstances. He probably wouldn't win if he were facing a Hitler-led Tory party advocating the shooting of all pets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Brits don't want a mad old Marxist as PM. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At some point, surely, the Labour party - even the hard left - will wake up and realise this. I suspect McDonnell knows it already. But how and when will they move against him? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, I'm British, not a "Brit", whatever once of those is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second, it's brave or extremely partisan to go looking for positives when the Party has put up its worst performance in history - I don't recall many offering such kind words to the LDs in 2015. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be that as it may - you are correct in there is a huge negative groundswell against Corbyn but his continued presence at the helm of Labour helps so many - the Conservatives, LDs, Greens, Brexit Party etc that I'm tempted to say long may it continue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OTOH, a centrist Labour Party pivoting back to a pro-REMAIN second referendum position would be in an electorally much stronger position - the mystery to me is you can see it, I can see it, everyone else can see it but Labour can't or won't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Brit" is a fairly abusive term the IRA used about the British. > > > > > > > > > > Huh? Many Brits use that word about themselves wholly without any sense of self-hatred. I hear it plenty, and have used it myself without ever having been challenged. I don't think I know any republicans (in the NI sense at least). > > > > > > > > They may well do. But nonetheless in an Irish context it is abusive. I would not use it to describe myself or anyone else but possibly that's because of my own background. > > > > > > I thought PB was a British site in the main. All of this snowflakery when there is so much of greater importance to consider is bizarre. > > > > Northern Ireland is part of Britain. Or had you forgotten? > > Brit really isn't a derogatory term to most of the population, although I accept you have a different view. I've been called it many times. Mind you, I'm not offended by any name calling. Unless you called me a Lib Dem.
I shall try to remember. Equally, don't call me a Corbynite. My fury would be quite something!
Who cares what precise job he did? For me his career is a plus, he came from a poor family and did well. He wasn't gifted it like these hapless Old Etonians. His backstory is highly impressive. He is clearly smart.
Which is why I wanted him to do well.
But that video. Help. He is so stiff and insipid. He'd be a terrible TV performer. He'd be another T May on the campaign trail and we really don't want that.
And the wobbly camera thing is oddly important. This was his big moment, the opening move, you'd think he'd be obsessed - he should be obsessed - with getting it bang on. "No that's not good enough, let's shoot it again".
Yet he let that half arsed attempt go out live? Tut tut. Game over.
> The positive for Leavers to take, despite the fact the result doesn't make anything that much clearer really, is that at least we have someone talking up for us now. Six months ago all we heard in the media were reports from parliament of Brexit being thwarted and MPs screaming for revoke or a second referendum, preventing No Deal, and feeling quite smug about it while Mrs May looked as though she was about to feint. No we have our own Mr Smug with a big mouth back, and the scales are level again.
Your Mr Smug, as you put it, is now demanding a role in the negotiations with the EU. At the risk of being called smug or patronising or whatever, there are currently no negotiations taking place with the EU nor are any planned because as he knows the terms of the extension to 31 October were that the WA was not up for renegotiation.
We can take the WA or leave without a deal. I thought he wanted us to do the latter.
So what exactly is he on about?
At some point in the future he will be able to say 'this Brexit isn't the one we would have negotiated if we had been allowed to take part in the talks'.
> @Cyclefree said: > Northern Ireland is part of Britain. Or had you forgotten?
Depends on what you mean by Britain. There is an island called Great Britain of which Northern Ireland isn't a part. There is a country called United Kingdom or Great Britain and Northern Ireland, of which Northern Ireland is a part, which sometimes gets called "Britain". It's not nitpicking to say that both "Britain" and "Britain" are different in terms of whether or not Northern Ireland is included.
This isn't about Brexit. Backing remain now would wreck Labour...
"We are now in a reverse of what happened in the 1980s and 90s. Then it was the argument that we couldn’t help people in Barnsley and Bradford without winning the marginals, so we needed to change – and when we did, we won. The very opposite change is required now. It’s about who we are as a party and why we were founded.
"This is not just about Brexit. It’s about the future of the Labour party as we know it. There is no mandate for a hard Brexit or to revoke article 50 or for a second referendum. Labour’s historic mission now is to bring the country together and find a compromise to leave the EU in a way that keeps close ties to our neighbours. Let’s not make a difficult outcome far worse by turning it into one that throws away our hope of representing all the people we exist to represent."
> > Continuing the theme we now have the Hood from Thunderbirds
>
> He is an ex-investment banker from Deutsche Bank.
>
> That is enough for me to say: Just No.<
++++
Who cares what precise job he did? For me his career is a plus, he came from a poor family and did well. He wasn't gifted it like these hapless Old Etonians. His backstory is highly impressive. He is clearly smart.
Which is why I wanted him to do well.
But that video. Help. He is so stiff and insipid. He'd be a terrible TV performer. He'd be another T May on the campaign trail and we really don't want that.
And the wobbly camera thing is oddly important. This was his big moment, the opening move, you'd think he'd be obsessed - he should be obsessed - with getting it bang on. "No that's not good enough, let's shoot it again".
Yet he let that half arsed attempt go out live? Tut tut. Game over.
He should have trained media staff to deal with that stuff. Has he made this himself over the weekend?
> @justin124 said: > For me the most significant figure from this election was thr Turnout - which came in at just under 37% with more than 63% not being bothered to vote at all. That does not strike me as clear evidence of voters straining at the leash to express their views on Brexit. EU elections have always been treated frivolously - even by many who do vote - and the attempt to translate this data into a GE result is just bonkers or at best naive. Had last Thursday been polling day for a General Election , I have no doubt that both major parties would have exceeded 30% - support for the Brexit Party , the LibDems and the Greens would have been much lower in terms of vote shares.
Your analysis is poor. If there'd been a GE last Thursday, the Tories would've got far less than 30%. The May govt's been a far bigger crock of sh*t than John Major's. The British public is not a bunch of spineless toadies like the 1922 Committee, they'd rather see May gone than worry about the risks of Corbyn.
I expect we won't have either - just can kicking and stalemate.
Imagine all those meaningful votes in parliament about what questions should go on the referendum ballot paper - and then the electoral commission deciding whether they are suitable or not.
I can't see the new Tory PM not allowing no deal/WTO on the ballot paper but the opposition won't countenance that.
> @Byronic said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > @PaulM said: > > > > @rottenborough said: > > > > And we are off: > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1133006944296427522 > > > > > > Continuing the theme we now have the Hood from Thunderbirds > > > > He is an ex-investment banker from Deutsche Bank. > > > > That is enough for me to say: Just No.< > > ++++ > > Who cares what precise job he did? For me his career is a plus, he came from a poor family and did well. He wasn't gifted it like these hapless Old Etonians. His backstory is highly impressive. He is clearly smart. > > Which is why I wanted him to do well. > > But that video. Help. He is so stiff and insipid. He'd be a terrible TV performer. He'd be another T May on the campaign trail and we really don't want that. > > And the wobbly camera thing is oddly important. This was his big moment, the opening move, you'd think he'd be obsessed - he should be obsessed - with getting it bang on. "No that's not good enough, let's shoot it again". > > Yet he let that half arsed attempt go out live? Tut tut. Game over. > >
I should have been more precise. I have investigated far too many cock-ups (to be polite) perpetrated by investment bankers from Deutsche Bank to have any respect for that on a CV. In fact, it makes me really quite wary.
Whenever I have seen him speak he does not strike me as particularly smart or eloquent. I'm not sure I see much substance behind him. His career as a Minister has not been particularly impressive. And if you read the very long article by Andrew Hagan on the aftermath of the Grenfell Tower fire there is some very serious criticism made of Javid.
The video is awful, agreed.
They are all behaving as if they're interviewing for the part of a Project Manager to bring a particularly tricky project to conclusion on time and on budget, not for the role of PM.
> @AlastairMeeks said: > How many more are going to enter? The field is getting quite crowded.
To my mind it's a mark of how little real talent there is. No obvious stand out candidates. Pretty much anyone who can walk and talk at the same time thinks they're up to it.
> @rottenborough said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > @PaulM said: > > > > > @rottenborough said: > > > > > And we are off: > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1133006944296427522 > > > > > > > > > > Continuing the theme we now have the Hood from Thunderbirds > > > > > > He is an ex-investment banker from Deutsche Bank. > > > > > > That is enough for me to say: Just No.< > > > > ++++ > > > > Who cares what precise job he did? For me his career is a plus, he came from a poor family and did well. He wasn't gifted it like these hapless Old Etonians. His backstory is highly impressive. He is clearly smart. > > > > Which is why I wanted him to do well. > > > > But that video. Help. He is so stiff and insipid. He'd be a terrible TV performer. He'd be another T May on the campaign trail and we really don't want that. > > > > And the wobbly camera thing is oddly important. This was his big moment, the opening move, you'd think he'd be obsessed - he should be obsessed - with getting it bang on. "No that's not good enough, let's shoot it again". > > > > Yet he let that half arsed attempt go out live? Tut tut. Game over. > > He should have trained media staff to deal with that stuff. Has he made this himself over the weekend?
Don't knock him. He's got a great plan: "We must get on and deliver Brexit." No one has ever thought of doing that before.
That's pretty underwhelming to be honest. Totally lacking in specifics, poor sound, really dull graphics, he looks like he is speaking to someone with a slightly limited understanding of English. He's going to have to do a lot better and be a lot more specific about what he wants.
> @Recidivist said: > > @isam said: > > > The positive for Leavers to take, despite the fact the result doesn't make anything that much clearer really, is that at least we have someone talking up for us now. Six months ago all we heard in the media were reports from parliament of Brexit being thwarted and MPs screaming for revoke or a second referendum, preventing No Deal, and feeling quite smug about it while Mrs May looked as though she was about to feint. No we have our own Mr Smug with a big mouth back, and the scales are level again. > > > > > > > > Your Mr Smug, as you put it, is now demanding a role in the negotiations with the EU. At the risk of being called smug or patronising or whatever, there are currently no negotiations taking place with the EU nor are any planned because as he knows the terms of the extension to 31 October were that the WA was not up for renegotiation. > > > > We can take the WA or leave without a deal. I thought he wanted us to do the latter. > > > > So what exactly is he on about? > > At some point in the future he will be able to say 'this Brexit isn't the one we would have negotiated if we had been allowed to take part in the talks'.
But the talks ended before his party was founded.
So is he proposing to reopen talks now? On what basis?
> > I should have been more precise. I have investigated far too many cock-ups (to be polite) perpetrated by investment bankers from Deutsche Bank to have any respect for that on a CV. In fact, it makes me really quite wary. > > Whenever I have seen him speak he does not strike me as particularly smart or eloquent. I'm not sure I see much substance behind him. His career as a Minister has not been particularly impressive. And if you read the very long article by Andrew Hagan on the aftermath of the Grenfell Tower fire there is some very serious criticism made of Javid. > > The video is awful, agreed. > > They are all behaving as if they're interviewing for the part of a Project Manager to bring a particularly tricky project to conclusion on time and on budget, not for the role of PM.<
++++
I bow to your superior judgement on Deutsche Bank, though I still think his backstory is impressive.
We are essentially agreed. Pretty much all the candidates have started badly. Johnson made that insane promise on the date of Brexit, boxing himself in from Day 1. Raab was just wooden. Hunt barely made a ripple. Javid doesn't know how to work a camera, or how to hire someone who can work a camera. Hancock is invisible.
Help.
About the only candidate that has come across as basically competent, at this early stage, is Gove....
> @Black_Rook said: > > @Byronic said: > > > @rottenborough said: > > > https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1133013541982752768 > > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1132999450341924865<; > > > > ++++ > > > > Wow. Yes. Is McDonnell beginning to move against Corbyn? Seems that way. > > > > I can't believe I am cheering on an IRA-hugging Leninist, but, go John! Take down Magic Grandpa. He has delighted us enough with his vests. > > Popcorn time! > > Gloria de Piero in today's Graun: > > This isn't about Brexit. Backing remain now would wreck Labour... > > "We are now in a reverse of what happened in the 1980s and 90s. Then it was the argument that we couldn’t help people in Barnsley and Bradford without winning the marginals, so we needed to change – and when we did, we won. The very opposite change is required now. It’s about who we are as a party and why we were founded. > > "This is not just about Brexit. It’s about the future of the Labour party as we know it. There is no mandate for a hard Brexit or to revoke article 50 or for a second referendum. Labour’s historic mission now is to bring the country together and find a compromise to leave the EU in a way that keeps close ties to our neighbours. Let’s not make a difficult outcome far worse by turning it into one that throws away our hope of representing all the people we exist to represent."
If "There is no mandate for a hard Brexit or to revoke article 50 or for a second referendum." why didn't she vote for the blasted deal, then?
> @DavidL said: > > That's pretty underwhelming to be honest. Totally lacking in specifics, poor sound, really dull graphics, he looks like he is speaking to someone with a slightly limited understanding of English. He's going to have to do a lot better and be a lot more specific about what he wants. -----
Talking in the third person ("fighting for their interests") about the people he's supposedly addressing is just awful political communications. He's devoid of talent.
I'm a former sub-editor, though fortunately not on a tabloid.
I always tried not to call people by a word they generally wouldn't use to describe themselves. So I prefer "Conservatives" to "Tories"; I dislike the "cis" coinage to mean "not transgender"; and I wouldn't use "Brit", even for the short period I edited a (British) magazine that mostly sold to Americans.
Supposedly there are remainers who accept the vote and think we should leave with a deal (or possibly even no deal). That is certainly true of quite a few MPs.
Does anyone have a feel for what percentage of the population this is and how they voted? I am assuming they would vote Lab or Tory, but what is their percentage?
If there was another referendum how many would revert?
The antics of the ERG considerably reduced the number in this category, in which I used to be myself. Remember the days of surveys showing between 60 and 70% in favour of leaving? Respecting a democratic result is one thing. Putting up with pissing about is quite different.
So my guess is that there would have been about 10-20% up until recently, probably around 5% now. And they'd vote according to their pre-Brexit preference.
This. Given that the Leave campaigners simply wouldn't take "Yes" for an answer, a big chunk of resigned Remainers have switched back. Myself included. Again and again, nothing's good enough for their mandate. Soft Brexit, staged Brexit, Hard Brexit... nope, nothing but Unicorn-diamond-hard-Brexit for them. Fine. Nothing it is, then. Pushing and pushing and pushing and maintaining that democracy means they must get exactly what flavour Brexit they want regardless of its effects on others or how far the goalposts shifted from what was voted on (and if this gets raised, well, "the referendum didn't specify a type of Brexit!", while, simultaneously, if any other Brexit gets raised "That's not what people voted for!")
I know quite a few apolitical people who are in the same category as me. From resigned back to Remain, thanks to the ERG, Farage, Boris, etc.
> @AlastairMeeks said: > > @rottenborough said: > > How many more are going to enter? The field is getting quite crowded. > > > > Still to come: > > > > Mordaunt > > Baker? > > Maybe Brady > Cleverly too?<
++++
Cleverly is quite impressive. Good on TV.
(No doubt he will now enter the campaign, by stepping towards a pavement podium, tripping over, sending everything flying, and injuring seven girl guides before he even speaks)
> @AlastairMeeks said: > How many more are going to enter? The field is getting quite crowded.
The last two set a pretty low bar -- the worst Prime Minister since Lord North and the worst Prime Minister since David Cameron -- and last time round, Theresa May won by default after the entire field self-immolated, so it is hardly surprising they all will take their chance.
> > Wow. Yes. Is McDonnell beginning to move against Corbyn? Seems that way.
> >
> > I can't believe I am cheering on an IRA-hugging Leninist, but, go John! Take down Magic Grandpa. He has delighted us enough with his vests.
>
> Popcorn time!
>
> Gloria de Piero in today's Graun:
>
> This isn't about Brexit. Backing remain now would wreck Labour...
>
> "We are now in a reverse of what happened in the 1980s and 90s. Then it was the argument that we couldn’t help people in Barnsley and Bradford without winning the marginals, so we needed to change – and when we did, we won. The very opposite change is required now. It’s about who we are as a party and why we were founded.
>
>
If "There is no mandate for a hard Brexit or to revoke article 50 or for a second referendum." why didn't she vote for the blasted deal, then?
Precisely. Anyone wittering on about the need for a compromise, softy-softy Brexit that will bring us all together, needs to explain why they voted down May's deal.
And don't give me some crap about jobs first deal with a permanent customs union over a temporary one. Doesn't wash.
> > The positive for Leavers to take, despite the fact the result doesn't make anything that much clearer really, is that at least we have someone talking up for us now. Six months ago all we heard in the media were reports from parliament of Brexit being thwarted and MPs screaming for revoke or a second referendum, preventing No Deal, and feeling quite smug about it while Mrs May looked as though she was about to feint. No we have our own Mr Smug with a big mouth back, and the scales are level again.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your Mr Smug, as you put it, is now demanding a role in the negotiations with the EU. At the risk of being called smug or patronising or whatever, there are currently no negotiations taking place with the EU nor are any planned because as he knows the terms of the extension to 31 October were that the WA was not up for renegotiation.
>
>
>
> We can take the WA or leave without a deal. I thought he wanted us to do the latter.
>
>
>
> So what exactly is he on about?
>
> At some point in the future he will be able to say 'this Brexit isn't the one we would have negotiated if we had been allowed to take part in the talks'.
But the talks ended before his party was founded.
So is he proposing to reopen talks now? On what basis?
I thought he just wanted out on 31/10/19.
Nigel doesn't let facts get in the way of a good grievance narrative.
For the record, my dislike of the term "Brit" stems not from any connotations with Ulster but because it is linguistically lazy. The term "British" is perfectly adequate and doesn't require any further shortening.
I think I first saw the term in the Currant Bun in the 80s and it grew from there. I'm not culturally or racially offended by the term but I am linguistically offended (there's a new term for you).
Sometimes language is worth fighting for and defending so I prefer the term British.
The abbreviation for "July" is "Jul".
Pause.
How busy do one have to be for that to be a legitimate timesaver?....
It’s worse than that. Abbreviations like Jan Oct or Dec are well recognised. Jul and Jun aren’t really.
It therefore takes your reader more time to figure it out - their extra time is longer than the time you save
> The positive for Leavers to take, despite the fact the result doesn't make anything that much clearer really, is that at least we have someone talking up for us now. Six months ago all we heard in the media were reports from parliament of Brexit being thwarted and MPs screaming for revoke or a second referendum, preventing No Deal, and feeling quite smug about it while Mrs May looked as though she was about to feint. No we have our own Mr Smug with a big mouth back, and the scales are level again.
Your Mr Smug, as you put it, is now demanding a role in the negotiations with the EU. At the risk of being called smug or patronising or whatever, there are currently no negotiations taking place with the EU nor are any planned because as he knows the terms of the extension to 31 October were that the WA was not up for renegotiation.
We can take the WA or leave without a deal. I thought he wanted us to do the latter.
So what exactly is he on about?
I’m troubled that they are (or will be) refusing to negotiate with the government of the UK
> > How many more are going to enter? The field is getting quite crowded.
> >
> > Still to come:
> >
> > Mordaunt
> > Baker?
>
> Maybe Brady
> Cleverly too?<
++++
Cleverly is quite impressive. Good on TV.
(No doubt he will now enter the campaign, by stepping towards a pavement podium, tripping over, sending everything flying, and injuring seven girl guides before he even speaks)
Errr... I believe they are just Guides now...”Girl” Guides being patronising and sexist
> For me the most significant figure from this election was thr Turnout - which came in at just under 37% with more than 63% not being bothered to vote at all. That does not strike me as clear evidence of voters straining at the leash to express their views on Brexit. EU elections have always been treated frivolously - even by many who do vote - and the attempt to translate this data into a GE result is just bonkers or at best naive.Had last Thursday been polling day for a General Election , I have no doubt that both major parties would have exceeded 30% - support for the Brexit Party , the LibDems and the Greens would have been much lower in terms of vote shares.
>
> In 2017 the LDs looked dead and UKIP looked dead. Now, Brexit, LD and Greens are all looking very much alive. Whereas last time your realistic options were basically tories or Labour, this time there could be a self-reinforcing split of the vote shares. Because Brexit threatens the tories,LDs and Greens feel more confortable voting for their parties than Labour. Because Labour is threatened by LDs and Greens, Brexit supporters won't fear a Corbyn government gettinga majority.
>
> We will most likely see a return to the post 2010 battleground of different regions being different 2 party contests. SNP OR con, LD or Lab, LD or Tory, Brexit or lab, tory or lab etc.
>
> LOL, SNP or CON, are you barking, Cons are miles and miles behind SNP. No contest ever it is a massacre.
Indeed! The SNP had a good result yesterday - but its poll share of 37.7% was little changed from the 2017 GE. This was despite the likelihood that it was a beneficiary of anti-Brexit protest votes - along with the LibDems and Greens.The party did not exceed expectations in terms of vote share, and I would expect their vote share at a Westminster election to be lower - probably below 35%. Both Labour and the Tories had an abysmal result yesterday - but would do much better at a GE.
I cannot imagine it being that low, something drastic would need to happen.
> I should have been more precise. I have investigated far too many cock-ups (to be polite) perpetrated by investment bankers from Deutsche Bank to have any respect for that on a CV. In fact, it makes me really quite wary.
>
> Whenever I have seen him speak he does not strike me as particularly smart or eloquent. I'm not sure I see much substance behind him. His career as a Minister has not been particularly impressive. And if you read the very long article by Andrew Hagan on the aftermath of the Grenfell Tower fire there is some very serious criticism made of Javid.
>
> The video is awful, agreed.
>
> They are all behaving as if they're interviewing for the part of a Project Manager to bring a particularly tricky project to conclusion on time and on budget, not for the role of PM.<
++++
I bow to your superior judgement on Deutsche Bank, though I still think his backstory is impressive.
We are essentially agreed. Pretty much all the candidates have started badly. Johnson made that insane promise on the date of Brexit, boxing himself in from Day 1. Raab was just wooden. Hunt barely made a ripple. Javid doesn't know how to work a camera, or how to hire someone who can work a camera. Hancock is invisible.
Help.
About the only candidate that has come across as basically competent, at this early stage, is Gove....
We need Ruth Davidson! But we can't have her.
You can have the donkey any time you want, Scotland would be happy to be rid of her. PS : you are obviously ignorant of Scotland and politics in general if you think she is PM material
Comments
> > @Cyclefree said:
> > > @felix said:
> > > > @Cyclefree said:
> > > > > @ah009 said:
> > > > > > @Cyclefree said:
> > > > > > > @stodge said:
> > > > > > > Seeking out positives for the Tories (it's not easy), one possible silver lining is the clear evidence that people REALLY don't want to vote for Corbyn.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If there was a GE now he could not win. I do not believe he would win at any point, or in any circumstances. He probably wouldn't win if he were facing a Hitler-led Tory party advocating the shooting of all pets.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Brits don't want a mad old Marxist as PM.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > At some point, surely, the Labour party - even the hard left - will wake up and realise this. I suspect McDonnell knows it already. But how and when will they move against him?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > First, I'm British, not a "Brit", whatever once of those is.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Second, it's brave or extremely partisan to go looking for positives when the Party has put up its worst performance in history - I don't recall many offering such kind words to the LDs in 2015.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Be that as it may - you are correct in there is a huge negative groundswell against Corbyn but his continued presence at the helm of Labour helps so many - the Conservatives, LDs, Greens, Brexit Party etc that I'm tempted to say long may it continue.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > OTOH, a centrist Labour Party pivoting back to a pro-REMAIN second referendum position would be in an electorally much stronger position - the mystery to me is you can see it, I can see it, everyone else can see it but Labour can't or won't.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Brit" is a fairly abusive term the IRA used about the British.
> > > > >
> > > > > Huh? Many Brits use that word about themselves wholly without any sense of self-hatred. I hear it plenty, and have used it myself without ever having been challenged. I don't think I know any republicans (in the NI sense at least).
> > > >
> > > > They may well do. But nonetheless in an Irish context it is abusive. I would not use it to describe myself or anyone else but possibly that's because of my own background.
> > >
> > > I thought PB was a British site in the main. All of this snowflakery when there is so much of greater importance to consider is bizarre.
> >
> > Northern Ireland is part of Britain. Or had you forgotten?
>
> Brit really isn't a derogatory term to most of the population, although I accept you have a different view. I've been called it many times. Mind you, I'm not offended by any name calling. Unless you called me a Lib Dem.
I shall try to remember. Equally, don't call me a Corbynite. My fury would be quite something!
> > @PaulM said:
> > > @rottenborough said:
> > > And we are off:
> > >
> > > https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1133006944296427522
> >
> > Continuing the theme we now have the Hood from Thunderbirds
>
> He is an ex-investment banker from Deutsche Bank.
>
> That is enough for me to say: Just No.<
++++
Who cares what precise job he did? For me his career is a plus, he came from a poor family and did well. He wasn't gifted it like these hapless Old Etonians. His backstory is highly impressive. He is clearly smart.
Which is why I wanted him to do well.
But that video. Help. He is so stiff and insipid. He'd be a terrible TV performer. He'd be another T May on the campaign trail and we really don't want that.
And the wobbly camera thing is oddly important. This was his big moment, the opening move, you'd think he'd be obsessed - he should be obsessed - with getting it bang on. "No that's not good enough, let's shoot it again".
Yet he let that half arsed attempt go out live? Tut tut. Game over.
> Northern Ireland is part of Britain. Or had you forgotten?
Depends on what you mean by Britain. There is an island called Great Britain of which Northern Ireland isn't a part.
There is a country called United Kingdom or Great Britain and Northern Ireland, of which Northern Ireland is a part, which sometimes gets called "Britain".
It's not nitpicking to say that both "Britain" and "Britain" are different in terms of whether or not Northern Ireland is included.
> > @rottenborough said:
> > https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1133013541982752768
> >
> >
> >
> > https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1132999450341924865<;
>
> ++++
>
> Wow. Yes. Is McDonnell beginning to move against Corbyn? Seems that way.
>
> I can't believe I am cheering on an IRA-hugging Leninist, but, go John! Take down Magic Grandpa. He has delighted us enough with his vests.
Popcorn time!
Gloria de Piero in today's Graun:
This isn't about Brexit. Backing remain now would wreck Labour...
"We are now in a reverse of what happened in the 1980s and 90s. Then it was the argument that we couldn’t help people in Barnsley and Bradford without winning the marginals, so we needed to change – and when we did, we won. The very opposite change is required now. It’s about who we are as a party and why we were founded.
"This is not just about Brexit. It’s about the future of the Labour party as we know it. There is no mandate for a hard Brexit or to revoke article 50 or for a second referendum. Labour’s historic mission now is to bring the country together and find a compromise to leave the EU in a way that keeps close ties to our neighbours. Let’s not make a difficult outcome far worse by turning it into one that throws away our hope of representing all the people we exist to represent."
> For me the most significant figure from this election was thr Turnout - which came in at just under 37% with more than 63% not being bothered to vote at all. That does not strike me as clear evidence of voters straining at the leash to express their views on Brexit. EU elections have always been treated frivolously - even by many who do vote - and the attempt to translate this data into a GE result is just bonkers or at best naive. Had last Thursday been polling day for a General Election , I have no doubt that both major parties would have exceeded 30% - support for the Brexit Party , the LibDems and the Greens would have been much lower in terms of vote shares.
Your analysis is poor. If there'd been a GE last Thursday, the Tories would've got far less than 30%. The May govt's been a far bigger crock of sh*t than John Major's. The British public is not a bunch of spineless toadies like the 1922 Committee, they'd rather see May gone than worry about the risks of Corbyn.
https://twitter.com/bbc5live/status/1132973123756843008
> https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1133003449170300928
I expect we won't have either - just can kicking and stalemate.
Imagine all those meaningful votes in parliament about what questions should go on the referendum ballot paper - and then the electoral commission deciding whether they are suitable or not.
I can't see the new Tory PM not allowing no deal/WTO on the ballot paper but the opposition won't countenance that.
> > @rottenborough said:
> > And we are off:
> >
> > https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1133006944296427522
>
> Continuing the theme we now have the Hood from Thunderbirds
With her diving exploits, we might need to move to Stingray for Penny "Aqua Marina" Mordaunt.....
r.
>
> He should have trained media staff to deal with that stuff. Has he made this himself over the weekend?<
++++
It looks like he got his eight year old kids to do it. "Here, son, you hold the camera, and press this button. Put down your lollipop first."
> > @Cyclefree said:
> > > @PaulM said:
> > > > @rottenborough said:
> > > > And we are off:
> > > >
> > > > https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1133006944296427522
> > >
> > > Continuing the theme we now have the Hood from Thunderbirds
> >
> > He is an ex-investment banker from Deutsche Bank.
> >
> > That is enough for me to say: Just No.<
>
> ++++
>
> Who cares what precise job he did? For me his career is a plus, he came from a poor family and did well. He wasn't gifted it like these hapless Old Etonians. His backstory is highly impressive. He is clearly smart.
>
> Which is why I wanted him to do well.
>
> But that video. Help. He is so stiff and insipid. He'd be a terrible TV performer. He'd be another T May on the campaign trail and we really don't want that.
>
> And the wobbly camera thing is oddly important. This was his big moment, the opening move, you'd think he'd be obsessed - he should be obsessed - with getting it bang on. "No that's not good enough, let's shoot it again".
>
> Yet he let that half arsed attempt go out live? Tut tut. Game over.
>
>
I should have been more precise. I have investigated far too many cock-ups (to be polite) perpetrated by investment bankers from Deutsche Bank to have any respect for that on a CV. In fact, it makes me really quite wary.
Whenever I have seen him speak he does not strike me as particularly smart or eloquent. I'm not sure I see much substance behind him. His career as a Minister has not been particularly impressive. And if you read the very long article by Andrew Hagan on the aftermath of the Grenfell Tower fire there is some very serious criticism made of Javid.
The video is awful, agreed.
They are all behaving as if they're interviewing for the part of a Project Manager to bring a particularly tricky project to conclusion on time and on budget, not for the role of PM.
> The gift that keeps on giving......
>
> https://twitter.com/bbc5live/status/1132973123756843008
Oh boy.....
> How many more are going to enter? The field is getting quite crowded.
To my mind it's a mark of how little real talent there is. No obvious stand out candidates. Pretty much anyone who can walk and talk at the same time thinks they're up to it.
> > @Cyclefree said:
>
> > > @PaulM said:
>
> > > > @rottenborough said:
>
> > > > And we are off:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1133006944296427522
>
>
>
> > >
>
> > > Continuing the theme we now have the Hood from Thunderbirds
>
> >
>
> > He is an ex-investment banker from Deutsche Bank.
>
> >
>
> > That is enough for me to say: Just No.<
>
>
>
> ++++
>
>
>
> Who cares what precise job he did? For me his career is a plus, he came from a poor family and did well. He wasn't gifted it like these hapless Old Etonians. His backstory is highly impressive. He is clearly smart.
>
>
>
> Which is why I wanted him to do well.
>
>
>
> But that video. Help. He is so stiff and insipid. He'd be a terrible TV performer. He'd be another T May on the campaign trail and we really don't want that.
>
>
>
> And the wobbly camera thing is oddly important. This was his big moment, the opening move, you'd think he'd be obsessed - he should be obsessed - with getting it bang on. "No that's not good enough, let's shoot it again".
>
>
>
> Yet he let that half arsed attempt go out live? Tut tut. Game over.
>
> He should have trained media staff to deal with that stuff. Has he made this himself over the weekend?
Don't knock him. He's got a great plan: "We must get on and deliver Brexit." No one has ever thought of doing that before.
> > @PaulM said:
> > > @rottenborough said:
> > > And we are off:
> > >
> > > https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1133006944296427522
> >
> > Continuing the theme we now have the Hood from Thunderbirds
>
> With her diving exploits, we might need to move to Stingray for Penny "Aqua Marina" Mordaunt.....
That's pretty underwhelming to be honest. Totally lacking in specifics, poor sound, really dull graphics, he looks like he is speaking to someone with a slightly limited understanding of English. He's going to have to do a lot better and be a lot more specific about what he wants.
> How many more are going to enter? The field is getting quite crowded.
Anyone who actively wants it should be disqualified as being mentally unstable.
> The gift that keeps on giving......
> https://twitter.com/bbc5live/status/1132973123756843008
> That'll be a 'Yes' then.
What an utter numpty. I could use stronger language - but I am trying to be more civil.
Mordaunt
Baker?
> > @isam said:
>
> > The positive for Leavers to take, despite the fact the result doesn't make anything that much clearer really, is that at least we have someone talking up for us now. Six months ago all we heard in the media were reports from parliament of Brexit being thwarted and MPs screaming for revoke or a second referendum, preventing No Deal, and feeling quite smug about it while Mrs May looked as though she was about to feint. No we have our own Mr Smug with a big mouth back, and the scales are level again.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your Mr Smug, as you put it, is now demanding a role in the negotiations with the EU. At the risk of being called smug or patronising or whatever, there are currently no negotiations taking place with the EU nor are any planned because as he knows the terms of the extension to 31 October were that the WA was not up for renegotiation.
>
>
>
> We can take the WA or leave without a deal. I thought he wanted us to do the latter.
>
>
>
> So what exactly is he on about?
>
> At some point in the future he will be able to say 'this Brexit isn't the one we would have negotiated if we had been allowed to take part in the talks'.
But the talks ended before his party was founded.
So is he proposing to reopen talks now? On what basis?
I thought he just wanted out on 31/10/19.
>
> I should have been more precise. I have investigated far too many cock-ups (to be polite) perpetrated by investment bankers from Deutsche Bank to have any respect for that on a CV. In fact, it makes me really quite wary.
>
> Whenever I have seen him speak he does not strike me as particularly smart or eloquent. I'm not sure I see much substance behind him. His career as a Minister has not been particularly impressive. And if you read the very long article by Andrew Hagan on the aftermath of the Grenfell Tower fire there is some very serious criticism made of Javid.
>
> The video is awful, agreed.
>
> They are all behaving as if they're interviewing for the part of a Project Manager to bring a particularly tricky project to conclusion on time and on budget, not for the role of PM.<
++++
I bow to your superior judgement on Deutsche Bank, though I still think his backstory is impressive.
We are essentially agreed. Pretty much all the candidates have started badly. Johnson made that insane promise on the date of Brexit, boxing himself in from Day 1. Raab was just wooden. Hunt barely made a ripple. Javid doesn't know how to work a camera, or how to hire someone who can work a camera. Hancock is invisible.
Help.
About the only candidate that has come across as basically competent, at this early stage, is Gove....
We need Ruth Davidson! But we can't have her.
> How many more are going to enter? The field is getting quite crowded.
>
> Still to come:
>
> Mordaunt
> Baker?
Maybe Brady
Cleverly too?
> > @Byronic said:
> > > @rottenborough said:
> > > https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1133013541982752768
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1132999450341924865<;
> >
> > ++++
> >
> > Wow. Yes. Is McDonnell beginning to move against Corbyn? Seems that way.
> >
> > I can't believe I am cheering on an IRA-hugging Leninist, but, go John! Take down Magic Grandpa. He has delighted us enough with his vests.
>
> Popcorn time!
>
> Gloria de Piero in today's Graun:
>
> This isn't about Brexit. Backing remain now would wreck Labour...
>
> "We are now in a reverse of what happened in the 1980s and 90s. Then it was the argument that we couldn’t help people in Barnsley and Bradford without winning the marginals, so we needed to change – and when we did, we won. The very opposite change is required now. It’s about who we are as a party and why we were founded.
>
> "This is not just about Brexit. It’s about the future of the Labour party as we know it. There is no mandate for a hard Brexit or to revoke article 50 or for a second referendum. Labour’s historic mission now is to bring the country together and find a compromise to leave the EU in a way that keeps close ties to our neighbours. Let’s not make a difficult outcome far worse by turning it into one that throws away our hope of representing all the people we exist to represent."
If "There is no mandate for a hard Brexit or to revoke article 50 or for a second referendum." why didn't she vote for the blasted deal, then?
>
> That's pretty underwhelming to be honest. Totally lacking in specifics, poor sound, really dull graphics, he looks like he is speaking to someone with a slightly limited understanding of English. He's going to have to do a lot better and be a lot more specific about what he wants.
-----
Talking in the third person ("fighting for their interests") about the people he's supposedly addressing is just awful political communications. He's devoid of talent.
I always tried not to call people by a word they generally wouldn't use to describe themselves. So I prefer "Conservatives" to "Tories"; I dislike the "cis" coinage to mean "not transgender"; and I wouldn't use "Brit", even for the short period I edited a (British) magazine that mostly sold to Americans.
Given that the Leave campaigners simply wouldn't take "Yes" for an answer, a big chunk of resigned Remainers have switched back. Myself included.
Again and again, nothing's good enough for their mandate. Soft Brexit, staged Brexit, Hard Brexit... nope, nothing but Unicorn-diamond-hard-Brexit for them.
Fine.
Nothing it is, then.
Pushing and pushing and pushing and maintaining that democracy means they must get exactly what flavour Brexit they want regardless of its effects on others or how far the goalposts shifted from what was voted on (and if this gets raised, well, "the referendum didn't specify a type of Brexit!", while, simultaneously, if any other Brexit gets raised "That's not what people voted for!")
I know quite a few apolitical people who are in the same category as me. From resigned back to Remain, thanks to the ERG, Farage, Boris, etc.
> > @rottenborough said:
> > How many more are going to enter? The field is getting quite crowded.
> >
> > Still to come:
> >
> > Mordaunt
> > Baker?
>
> Maybe Brady
> Cleverly too?<
++++
Cleverly is quite impressive. Good on TV.
(No doubt he will now enter the campaign, by stepping towards a pavement podium, tripping over, sending everything flying, and injuring seven girl guides before he even speaks)
> How many more are going to enter? The field is getting quite crowded.
The last two set a pretty low bar -- the worst Prime Minister since Lord North and the worst Prime Minister since David Cameron -- and last time round, Theresa May won by default after the entire field self-immolated, so it is hardly surprising they all will take their chance.
And don't give me some crap about jobs first deal with a permanent customs union over a temporary one. Doesn't wash.
No Deal/WTO - Canal Turn
It therefore takes your reader more time to figure it out - their extra time is longer than the time you save
Jul is a thoroughly selfish and thoughtless word
PS : you are obviously ignorant of Scotland and politics in general if you think she is PM material
At their rate, they will finish counting Euro votes after the first sitting of the new Parliament but maybe before Brexit