> We were members for 40 years and failed to make any real impact in that time. The idea of 'changing the EU from the inside' is as bankrupt as a 'pain free No Deal'.
You might not agree with the way British influence was used but the way in which the Single Market happened was British and prioritising eastern enlargement was British. There are sure to be many other examples.
Pharmaceutical regulation was pretty much based on the UK version.
> The people who claim Britain had no influence in the EU are just repeating decades of tabloid press myth.
>
> They never adduce any evidence.
>
> Go on then , give us details of the influence we have ever wielded, I dare you.
>
>
> The creation of the single market and the expansion into Eastern Europe were policies championed by the UK to name but two where our influence was key.
The way Thatcherite free marketeers have walked away from the single market is one of the mysteries of modern political history.
So the last examples you can give of us getting what we want are 33 and 27 years ago?
If the EU was still the EC pre Maastricht but expanded to the east we’d be a delighted member
In the last quarter century the situation developed, not necessarily to our advantage
they deserved to be chucked out for the cheating lying rats that they were , parasites leeching off the public, enriching themselves and their friends and families.
I already posted Michelle Thompson and Natalie McGarry
Thompson was found innocent, McGarry I will give you. Not enough space to list the equivalent Tories and I don't have the days free to do it anyway. Myopic Tories, 160K for a game of Tennis, davidson 20K for fictional lunch , 300K from fictional organisations to fund Tories and on and on and on and on. People who use dark money , donations from tax havens should not throw stones. That is just a smidgen of the monetary stuff , we could get on to worse stuff that was concealed for sure, good old Tories with their swords and shields of truth , what a laugh.
> @Recidivist said: > > @Richard_Tyndall said: > > > We were members for 40 years and failed to make any real impact in that time. The idea of 'changing the EU from the inside' is as bankrupt as a 'pain free No Deal'. > > > > You might not agree with the way British influence was used but the way in which the Single Market happened was British and prioritising eastern enlargement was British. There are sure to be many other examples. > > Pharmaceutical regulation was pretty much based on the UK version.
And indeed having the EU medication regulatory agency based in London was a major factor in big pharma companies having their European HQs here. They are going thanks to Brexit. Thousands of jobs lost.
The EPP is as full blown Lisbon Treaty waving ever closer Union grouping. On what planet have the Tories ever been in favour of the Lisbon Treaty with its creeping accumalation of EU supremacy and ever closer union?
They may prize the single market but they have never been keen on giving up the sort of sovereignty transfer that Ever Closer Union and its enabling treaty implies. It may have been a somewhat futile gesture but Cameron was wholly correct in setting up the ECR to represent honestly the Tory position.
Not only that but it was one of the devices he used to stop his party from splitting apart. Again, in hindsight it may have been a futile gesture but he had little choice but to do it.
The simple reality is that because the UK has never been a fan of Ever closer Union or indeed many of the other characteristics of the EU, has rejected the Euro, has demanded exceptional privilege (eg the rebate) and is not part of mainland Europe, its lack of influence is to be expected. Its never been part of the gang so it won't be listened to and pretending it is listened to because its a member (rather than being listened to because it has its own independent international political leverage beyond the scope of the EU) is just naive or dishonest.
> > We were members for 40 years and failed to make any real impact in that time. The idea of 'changing the EU from the inside' is as bankrupt as a 'pain free No Deal'.
>
>
>
> You might not agree with the way British influence was used but the way in which the Single Market happened was British and prioritising eastern enlargement was British. There are sure to be many other examples.
>
> Pharmaceutical regulation was pretty much based on the UK version.
And indeed having the EU medication regulatory agency based in London was a major factor in big pharma companies having their European HQs here. They are going thanks to Brexit. Thousands of jobs lost.
Quite right. And this wasn't a treat thrown our way to placate us. It was the well deserved result of hard work by lots of individuals. Ultimately the EU is much like a lot of other things in life. You get out what you put in.
> @eristdoof said: > > @FrancisUrquhart said: > > The German government's anti-Semitism commissioner has urged Jews to avoid wearing skullcaps in public. Felix Klein warned Jews against donning the kippa in parts of the country, following a rise in anti-Semitism. > > > > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48411735 > > He said “I cannot advise Jews to wear the kippah everywhere all the time in Germany,” > Which is not the same as "advising against wearing skullcaps in public" > > > "I cannot advise drinking 24 hours a day" is not the same as "advising against having a drink"
> @BillyBlake said: > @OblitusSumMe > > Yep I love the way the UK influences the EU. After all Cameron had a great impact in stopping Junker becoming President didn't he? What was the vote 26-2 and the Hungarians only voted with us out of protest over another issue. > > I think it sums it up nicely don't you?
Trying to change a decision after it had been made quite effectively sums up many of our efforts to exercise influence. It isn’t proof that we didn’t have any.
Laying Boris at evens yesterday has already paid off given he's has drifter to 3s.
Lock in that profit or let it ride longer?
Might be a small point, sorry for being pernickety, but to me ‘3s’ implies 3/1, I don’t think of evens as ‘2s’. You seem to have used both decimal and fractional odds in the same market which is a bit confusing/misleading
Re; the thread header. Methinks the Johnson doth protest too much,,,
In terms of betting, this is a tricky one. So many contenders. Might try and pick up a couple of outlier brexiteers with good odds.
I think the next leader HAS to be a brexiteer. I base this on three assumptions; 1. A remainer PM failed to get a deal through and this can't be seen to happen again. 2. The tory membership haven't had a vote on their leader for 14 years, there's a sense it's about time they did. 3. The membership are massively pro-brexit.
Only issue is who makes it to the final two. We know Tory MPs are a duplicitous electorate and one wonders if remainer Tories will back a pro-brexit minister who has been loyal to the govt to prevent PM Boris. If that's the case Hunt, Gove and the like might be the ones to watch.
Laying Boris at evens yesterday has already paid off given he's has drifter to 3s.
Lock in that profit or let it ride longer?
Might be a small point, sorry for being pernickety, but to me ‘3s’ implies 3/1, I don’t think of evens as ‘2s’. You seem to have used both decimal and fractional odds in the same market which is a bit confusing/misleading
Apologies for that, I'm normally careful about fractional or decimal but as you say I'm all over the shop there.
> @Charles said: > > So the last examples you can give of us getting what we want are 33 and 27 years ago? > > If the EU was still the EC pre Maastricht but expanded to the east we’d be a delighted member > > In the last quarter century the situation developed, not necessarily to our advantage ----------
How about sanctions on Russia? Why define "we" in such nationalistic terms anyway?
Laying Boris at evens yesterday has already paid off given he's has drifter to 3s.
Lock in that profit or let it ride longer?
Might be a small point, sorry for being pernickety, but to me ‘3s’ implies 3/1, I don’t think of evens as ‘2s’. You seem to have used both decimal and fractional odds in the same market which is a bit confusing/misleading
Apologies for that, I'm normally careful about fractional or decimal but as you say I'm all over the shop there.
> @Nigelb said: > > @BillyBlake said: > > @OblitusSumMe > > > > Yep I love the way the UK influences the EU. After all Cameron had a great impact in stopping Junker becoming President didn't he? What was the vote 26-2 and the Hungarians only voted with us out of protest over another issue. > > > > I think it sums it up nicely don't you? > > Trying to change a decision after it had been made quite effectively sums up many of our efforts to exercise influence. > It isn’t proof that we didn’t have any. > > Meantime, it’s difficult to argue with Hammond’s logic in this interview: > https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/26/philip-hammond-warns-leadership-candidates-not-to-ignore-parliament-on-brexit > > The Herdson Scenario, from his recent very entertaining header, might just happen. >
Whoever wins, they're screwed. The can't get anything through Parliament and they dare not call an election
Is the etymology of 'fagging/fag' to mean do hard work/be someone who does menial work tied in with the offensive way of referring to a gay person? I thought they were seperate derivations.
DFDS Fox, Hannan and Lilico are much more obsessed with doing whatever their foul paymasters in the US want, at varying degrees of insanity.
What is interesting about Hannan and Lilico, having been raised outside the UK, is the degree to which their concept of the country is far more theoretical and mythological than practical. Carswell is the same.
> @Floater said: > > @eristdoof said: > > > @FrancisUrquhart said: > > > The German government's anti-Semitism commissioner has urged Jews to avoid wearing skullcaps in public. Felix Klein warned Jews against donning the kippa in parts of the country, following a rise in anti-Semitism. > > > > > > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48411735 > > > > He said “I cannot advise Jews to wear the kippah everywhere all the time in Germany,” > > Which is not the same as "advising against wearing skullcaps in public" > > > > > > "I cannot advise drinking 24 hours a day" is not the same as "advising against having a drink" > > Well thats ok then........ > >
As I said in an earlieer post on this subject, it is still bad. But I will still call out excessive over-exaggeration when I see it.
> @TGOHF said: > Hammond is off his nut if he thinks a cabal of Europhile Con MPs stopping Brexit doesn’t end the Conservative party. > > Anyone who relegated him to the back benches gets my vote.
He voted for Brexit multiple times and argued the case for others to do so. Look at the ERG and you will find those who stopped Brexit and will end the Conservative party. And yes many of them are off their nuts.
> @Stark_Dawning said: > Paging antifrank... > > https://twitter.com/Melissa_Benn/status/1132536843101179907 > > > > I know I'm breaking some internet 'law' or other, but these days Nigel is becoming increasingly reminiscent of Adolf strutting the stage. As the for the Brexit Party faithful, surely they were filtered by the programme makers for a particular effect. I didn't actually hear anyone say 'Eee by gum' but that implication was clearly being driven.
Did you say the same about Emmanuel Macron who build an entire movement and Presidential campaign around his own persona and personality. If we now equate leadership and motivational skills - something few of our current politicians have - to being like Hitler we are in a sorry position. Its just a ridiculous comparison - particularly as most of his audience were older than average.
As a Tory lackey you should understand what a unionist fag is , unless you are pretending to be American nowadays. I know you did not go to Eton but all you Tories are well aquainted with the phrase, still being economical with the truth is a Tory trait.
Oh dear, unfortunate use of an archaic phrase. The cherry on the bulls*** sundae was mentioning the name of a gay Scottish MP. Makes him look rather silly.
If he resigns I wonder if it'll effect Holyrood arithmetic.
> @rottenborough said: > Given Hammonds comments it must now be odds on for an election in October. > > > > Parliament breaks on 20th July and returns on 5th September. > > > > That 5th September sitting may only do one thing - Vote through a general election. > > If the French veto an extension, then we are still out under that scenario surely?
Isn't it time someone suggested they shorten their summer holidays - why do they need six weeks off as if they were schoolkids? They will barely have four weeks sitting time between when the new leader is elected and 31 October as they then break up for party conferences. Given those only cover weekends - and Mon/Tues - why can't they also sit towards the end of those weeks.
> @Fenman said: > > @Nigelb said: > > > @BillyBlake said: > > > @OblitusSumMe > > > > > > Yep I love the way the UK influences the EU. After all Cameron had a great impact in stopping Junker becoming President didn't he? What was the vote 26-2 and the Hungarians only voted with us out of protest over another issue. > > > > > > I think it sums it up nicely don't you? > > > > Trying to change a decision after it had been made quite effectively sums up many of our efforts to exercise influence. > > It isn’t proof that we didn’t have any. > > > > Meantime, it’s difficult to argue with Hammond’s logic in this interview: > > https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/26/philip-hammond-warns-leadership-candidates-not-to-ignore-parliament-on-brexit > > > > The Herdson Scenario, from his recent very entertaining header, might just happen. > > > > Whoever wins, they're screwed. The can't get anything through Parliament and they dare not call an election
Or they think more than one or two moves ahead. Renegotiate or leave in October is really stupid, the timelines just dont work (which is probably why the EU went for October). No dealers best campaign options are:
Deal vs no deal referendum which puts real pressure on the Tory remainers/anti no dealers, it is far less clear they would block this.
or
Extend for another year, spend a lot on no deal prep and call a GE in spring 2020 rather than autumn 2019.
> @noneoftheabove said: > Deal vs no deal referendum which puts real pressure on the Tory remainers/anti no dealers, it is far less clear they would block this.
I guess the problem is that they and the opposition would amend it to add a Remain option.
Also not sure which way the DUP would jump, best guess is they'd be a No, since that's how they like to roll.
> That isn't a gaffe - that is hate speech. And I have reported it as such
>
> You thick moronic cretin, get a life snowflake.
When you call a gay politician a fag, it is very clear what the intent it behind the comment. And it is very clearly homophobic.
The only cretin is you - throwing abuse shows that you really don't have an argument. But we are all used to this from you by now.
LOL, obvious pretend outrage, any fool knows what he meant and for sure every Tory should be well aware of the meaning of fag. We do not live in the USA. Pretendy outrage from the loser party. Have a look at your pathetic party of cretinous losers instead of imaginary outrage.
The Herdson scenario will never likely happen because in the current circumstances Labour will not attain anywhere near the 291 seats he asserted on 28% of the vote. With the SNP solid in Scotland, Wales increasingly leaning toward Brexit and the Libdems on the rise in remain areas, the BXP on the rise in leave areas and Change UK and the Greens out in force for nuisance value exactly where would Corbyn find an additional 40-50 gains from?
I suspect he could end up largest party with something like 230 seats forcing him to contemplate a rainbow coalition of Libdems, SNP and god knows who else.
Farage may have been the master of herding cats but Corbyn has struggled to herd his own party for most of his leadership. The idea that he could herd the assorted creatures of the night that he would need to make him PM in such a scenario is beyond risible. His coalition would make the Cameron Clegg Coalition seem positively productive and friendly.
Not only that but when Scotland vote for independence (the SNP would inevitably make another referendum with positive conditions a redline for their co-operation) then his rainbow coalition would inevitably collapse and his party would be the party that broke the Union.
Similarly, whilst the BXP could make significant inroads into areas of the Tory support I would never expect them to overtake them in the Westminster stakes in the short term. Whatever happened the Tories would return well over 100 MPs and as such the Herdson scenario is the stuff of nightmares but nothing more
> @Charles said: > > @TheScreamingEagles said: > > > The people who claim Britain had no influence in the EU are just repeating decades of tabloid press myth. > > > > > > They never adduce any evidence. > > > > > > Go on then , give us details of the influence we have ever wielded, I dare you. > > > > > > > > > The creation of the single market and the expansion into Eastern Europe were policies championed by the UK to name but two where our influence was key. > > > > The way Thatcherite free marketeers have walked away from the single market is one of the mysteries of modern political history. > > So the last examples you can give of us getting what we want are 33 and 27 years ago? > > If the EU was still the EC pre Maastricht but expanded to the east we’d be a delighted member > > In the last quarter century the situation developed, not necessarily to our advantage
So many here are expecting that benefits of being in the EU are seen as victories like winning the World Cup. Being on the inside for negotiations is not about absolute wins. The aim is to continually influence the decision process so that it is good for the UK and good for all member states.
If you want two areas where the UK has massively benefitted from being within the EEC/EU one is cross border trading for small companies and another is the strength of UK universities in international teaching and research.
> I know I'm breaking some internet 'law' or other, but these days Nigel is becoming increasingly reminiscent of Adolf strutting the stage. As the for the Brexit Party faithful, surely they were filtered by the programme makers for a particular effect. I didn't actually hear anyone say 'Eee by gum' but that implication was clearly being driven.
Did you say the same about Emmanuel Macron who build an entire movement and Presidential campaign around his own persona and personality. If we now equate leadership and motivational skills - something few of our current politicians have - to being like Hitler we are in a sorry position. Its just a ridiculous comparison - particularly as most of his audience were older than average.
To be clear, I'm not saying Nigel deliberately set out to resemble the Führer. I think what's happened is that he's now copying the mannerisms and rhetorical style of Trump. When you combine that with a certain look - a funny little man with a side parting - obvious similarities emerge.
> @malcolmg said: > > @malcolmg said: > > > @TGOHF said: > > > > > > Gaffe prone nutty Nat MSP makes daily faux pas with homophobic tweet > > > > > > https://twitter.com/glasgowcathcart/status/1132328403078733824 > > > > > That isn't a gaffe - that is hate speech. And I have reported it as such > > > > > > You thick moronic cretin, get a life snowflake. > > > > When you call a gay politician a fag, it is very clear what the intent it behind the comment. And it is very clearly homophobic. > > > > The only cretin is you - throwing abuse shows that you really don't have an argument. But we are all used to this from you by now. > > LOL, obvious pretend outrage, any fool knows what he meant and for sure every Tory should be well aware of the meaning of fag. We do not live in the USA. Pretendy outrage from the loser party. Have a look at your pathetic party of cretinous losers instead of imaginary outrage.
More abuse. I have never belonged to any party - so I don't have a party.
Given that you are seeking to defend homophobia - and doing so by being abusive towards a gay member of this site - I think it is very clear that you are just as much a bigot as the MSP in question.
Fag is a term of abuse when deployed like that. It is unacceptable. End of.
Pity then that after 40 years of membership the remain side had nothing positive to offer the British public as evidence of their influence in Brussels during the referendum campaign but instead resorted to flagrant scaremongering in a desperate attempt to scare the nation into staying in.
The simple reality is that after 40 years the EU's supporters provided nothing to make the British people admire the EU (oh except the 'Peace in Europe' lie)! Not greater prosperity, not greater productivity, not better services, not better security (with open borders some chance!), not better co-operation on anything significant (the illegal migrant tragedy demonstrated that abject failure).
NOTHING
PS And thank god we kept our own currency else we'd have ended up like Greece!
> @BillyBlake said: > @OblitusSumMe > > Yep I love the way the UK influences the EU. After all Cameron had a great impact in stopping Junker becoming President didn't he? What was the vote 26-2 and the Hungarians only voted with us out of protest over another issue. > > I think it sums it up nicely don't you?
Mate... We literally just had an election in which we get to send MEPs to the European Parliament.
> @OblitusSumMe said: > > @Richard_Tyndall said: > > We were members for 40 years and failed to make any real impact in that time. The idea of 'changing the EU from the inside' is as bankrupt as a 'pain free No Deal'. > > You might not agree with the way British influence was used but the way in which the Single Market happened was British and prioritising eastern enlargement was British. There are sure to be many other examples.
As I already said that was almost 30 years ago. And it failed in its main intention which was to prevent deepening of the EU.
Whoopie do. The UK will send likely 7 perhaps 8 groups with differing goals and objectives all to different largely non descript EU Parliament groupings and none of whom will have a say in the likely dominant EPP grouping (do you know which British Party is affiliated with them?). All will sit in opposition and most will sit in groups with less influence than the Libdems in Westminster.
Not only that but none of us have a clue beyond whether they favour leave or remain what EU agenda or not as each party is trying to achieve when they get there because the parties deem not to fight the Euro election on European issues and generally never have done (I assume because most of it would likely alarm voters).
Slice it whichever way you like 'matey', the influence the UK has on the EU and a participating democratic member is risible.
Whoopie do. The UK will send likely 7 perhaps 8 groups with differing goals and objectives all to different largely non descript EU Parliament groupings and none of whom will have a say in the likely dominant EPP grouping (do you know which British Party is affiliated with them?). All will sit in opposition and most will sit in groups with less influence than the Libdems in Westminster.
Not only that but none of us have a clue beyond whether they favour leave or remain what EU agenda or not as each party is trying to achieve when they get there because the parties deem not to fight the Euro election on European issues and generally never have done (I assume because most of it would likely alarm voters).
Slice it whichever way you like 'matey', the influence the UK has on the EU and a participating democratic member is risible.
I don't know which British Party is represented in the EPP. The Change UK lot, if that's still their name, could claim a place on the grounds of having a couple of ex-Conservatives I would have thought. But I doubt they've got around to that level of detail yet. Do you know the answer or was it an actual question?
> @Recidivist said: > A bit more turnout news from London . > > > > Haringey 46.5 % . > > > > That’s up around 10% from 2014. > > > > Voted 70% Remain in 2016 . > > Now that looks like it could be significant. But there aren't too many places like Haringay.
True . We still have quite a few London boroughs to report yet . Not sure when we’ll get these though .
The Lib Dems seem to be very encouraged by that Haringey turnout .
Comments
If the EU was still the EC pre Maastricht but expanded to the east we’d be a delighted member
In the last quarter century the situation developed, not necessarily to our advantage
> > @Richard_Tyndall said:
>
> > We were members for 40 years and failed to make any real impact in that time. The idea of 'changing the EU from the inside' is as bankrupt as a 'pain free No Deal'.
>
>
>
> You might not agree with the way British influence was used but the way in which the Single Market happened was British and prioritising eastern enlargement was British. There are sure to be many other examples.
>
> Pharmaceutical regulation was pretty much based on the UK version.
And indeed having the EU medication regulatory agency based in London was a major factor in big pharma companies having their European HQs here. They are going thanks to Brexit. Thousands of jobs lost.
The EPP is as full blown Lisbon Treaty waving ever closer Union grouping. On what planet have the Tories ever been in favour of the Lisbon Treaty with its creeping accumalation of EU supremacy and ever closer union?
They may prize the single market but they have never been keen on giving up the sort of sovereignty transfer that Ever Closer Union and its enabling treaty implies. It may have been a somewhat futile gesture but Cameron was wholly correct in setting up the ECR to represent honestly the Tory position.
Not only that but it was one of the devices he used to stop his party from splitting apart. Again, in hindsight it may have been a futile gesture but he had little choice but to do it.
The simple reality is that because the UK has never been a fan of Ever closer Union or indeed many of the other characteristics of the EU, has rejected the Euro, has demanded exceptional privilege (eg the rebate) and is not part of mainland Europe, its lack of influence is to be expected. Its never been part of the gang so it won't be listened to and pretending it is listened to because its a member (rather than being listened to because it has its own independent international political leverage beyond the scope of the EU) is just naive or dishonest.
Lock in that profit or let it ride longer?
> > @FrancisUrquhart said:
> > The German government's anti-Semitism commissioner has urged Jews to avoid wearing skullcaps in public. Felix Klein warned Jews against donning the kippa in parts of the country, following a rise in anti-Semitism.
> >
> > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48411735
>
> He said “I cannot advise Jews to wear the kippah everywhere all the time in Germany,”
> Which is not the same as "advising against wearing skullcaps in public"
>
>
> "I cannot advise drinking 24 hours a day" is not the same as "advising against having a drink"
Well thats ok then........
> @OblitusSumMe
>
> Yep I love the way the UK influences the EU. After all Cameron had a great impact in stopping Junker becoming President didn't he? What was the vote 26-2 and the Hungarians only voted with us out of protest over another issue.
>
> I think it sums it up nicely don't you?
Trying to change a decision after it had been made quite effectively sums up many of our efforts to exercise influence.
It isn’t proof that we didn’t have any.
Meantime, it’s difficult to argue with Hammond’s logic in this interview:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/26/philip-hammond-warns-leadership-candidates-not-to-ignore-parliament-on-brexit
The Herdson Scenario, from his recent very entertaining header, might just happen.
https://twitter.com/glasgowcathcart/status/1132328403078733824?s=21
In terms of betting, this is a tricky one. So many contenders. Might try and pick up a couple of outlier brexiteers with good odds.
I think the next leader HAS to be a brexiteer. I base this on three assumptions; 1. A remainer PM failed to get a deal through and this can't be seen to happen again. 2. The tory membership haven't had a vote on their leader for 14 years, there's a sense it's about time they did. 3. The membership are massively pro-brexit.
Only issue is who makes it to the final two. We know Tory MPs are a duplicitous electorate and one wonders if remainer Tories will back a pro-brexit minister who has been loyal to the govt to prevent PM Boris. If that's the case Hunt, Gove and the like might be the ones to watch.
>
> So the last examples you can give of us getting what we want are 33 and 27 years ago?
>
> If the EU was still the EC pre Maastricht but expanded to the east we’d be a delighted member
>
> In the last quarter century the situation developed, not necessarily to our advantage
----------
How about sanctions on Russia? Why define "we" in such nationalistic terms anyway?
And we get to see some hilarious, fresh and cutting edge political memes into the bargain!!
> > @BillyBlake said:
> > @OblitusSumMe
> >
> > Yep I love the way the UK influences the EU. After all Cameron had a great impact in stopping Junker becoming President didn't he? What was the vote 26-2 and the Hungarians only voted with us out of protest over another issue.
> >
> > I think it sums it up nicely don't you?
>
> Trying to change a decision after it had been made quite effectively sums up many of our efforts to exercise influence.
> It isn’t proof that we didn’t have any.
>
> Meantime, it’s difficult to argue with Hammond’s logic in this interview:
> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/26/philip-hammond-warns-leadership-candidates-not-to-ignore-parliament-on-brexit
>
> The Herdson Scenario, from his recent very entertaining header, might just happen.
>
Whoever wins, they're screwed. The can't get anything through Parliament and they dare not call an election
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1132506111884636160
Anyone who relegated him to the back benches gets my vote.
> > @isam said:
> > https://twitter.com/thejeremyvine/status/1132603132222091265
>
> SADDDDDDDDD.....Maybe it is a big city / London thing?
>
> I am lucky that the street I live on is exactly the opposite. And the same was true on pretty much every place I have lived.
Remainer world problems!
> Gaffe prone nutty Nat MSP makes daily faux pas with homophobic tweet
>
> https://twitter.com/glasgowcathcart/status/1132328403078733824
That isn't a gaffe - that is hate speech. And I have reported it as such
DFDS Fox, Hannan and Lilico are much more obsessed with doing whatever their foul paymasters in the US want, at varying degrees of insanity.
What is interesting about Hannan and Lilico, having been raised outside the UK, is the degree to which their concept of the country is far more theoretical and mythological than practical. Carswell is the same.
> > @eristdoof said:
> > > @FrancisUrquhart said:
> > > The German government's anti-Semitism commissioner has urged Jews to avoid wearing skullcaps in public. Felix Klein warned Jews against donning the kippa in parts of the country, following a rise in anti-Semitism.
> > >
> > > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48411735
> >
> > He said “I cannot advise Jews to wear the kippah everywhere all the time in Germany,”
> > Which is not the same as "advising against wearing skullcaps in public"
> >
> >
> > "I cannot advise drinking 24 hours a day" is not the same as "advising against having a drink"
>
> Well thats ok then........
>
>
As I said in an earlieer post on this subject, it is still bad. But I will still call out excessive over-exaggeration when I see it.
> Hammond is off his nut if he thinks a cabal of Europhile Con MPs stopping Brexit doesn’t end the Conservative party.
>
> Anyone who relegated him to the back benches gets my vote.
He voted for Brexit multiple times and argued the case for others to do so. Look at the ERG and you will find those who stopped Brexit and will end the Conservative party. And yes many of them are off their nuts.
> Hammond is off his nut if he thinks a cabal of Europhile Con MPs stopping Brexit doesn’t end the Conservative party.
Feature not bug
> Paging antifrank...
>
> https://twitter.com/Melissa_Benn/status/1132536843101179907
>
>
>
> I know I'm breaking some internet 'law' or other, but these days Nigel is becoming increasingly reminiscent of Adolf strutting the stage. As the for the Brexit Party faithful, surely they were filtered by the programme makers for a particular effect. I didn't actually hear anyone say 'Eee by gum' but that implication was clearly being driven.
Did you say the same about Emmanuel Macron who build an entire movement and Presidential campaign around his own persona and personality. If we now equate leadership and motivational skills - something few of our current politicians have - to being like Hitler we are in a sorry position. Its just a ridiculous comparison - particularly as most of his audience were older than average.
> Gaffe prone nutty Nat MSP makes daily faux pas with homophobic tweet
>
> https://twitter.com/glasgowcathcart/status/1132328403078733824
Oh dear, unfortunate use of an archaic phrase. The cherry on the bulls*** sundae was mentioning the name of a gay Scottish MP. Makes him look rather silly.
If he resigns I wonder if it'll effect Holyrood arithmetic.
> Given Hammonds comments it must now be odds on for an election in October.
>
>
>
> Parliament breaks on 20th July and returns on 5th September.
>
>
>
> That 5th September sitting may only do one thing - Vote through a general election.
>
> If the French veto an extension, then we are still out under that scenario surely?
Isn't it time someone suggested they shorten their summer holidays - why do they need six weeks off as if they were schoolkids? They will barely have four weeks sitting time between when the new leader is elected and 31 October as they then break up for party conferences. Given those only cover weekends - and Mon/Tues - why can't they also sit towards the end of those weeks.
> > @Nigelb said:
> > > @BillyBlake said:
> > > @OblitusSumMe
> > >
> > > Yep I love the way the UK influences the EU. After all Cameron had a great impact in stopping Junker becoming President didn't he? What was the vote 26-2 and the Hungarians only voted with us out of protest over another issue.
> > >
> > > I think it sums it up nicely don't you?
> >
> > Trying to change a decision after it had been made quite effectively sums up many of our efforts to exercise influence.
> > It isn’t proof that we didn’t have any.
> >
> > Meantime, it’s difficult to argue with Hammond’s logic in this interview:
> > https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/26/philip-hammond-warns-leadership-candidates-not-to-ignore-parliament-on-brexit
> >
> > The Herdson Scenario, from his recent very entertaining header, might just happen.
> >
>
> Whoever wins, they're screwed. The can't get anything through Parliament and they dare not call an election
Or they think more than one or two moves ahead. Renegotiate or leave in October is really stupid, the timelines just dont work (which is probably why the EU went for October). No dealers best campaign options are:
Deal vs no deal referendum which puts real pressure on the Tory remainers/anti no dealers, it is far less clear they would block this.
or
Extend for another year, spend a lot on no deal prep and call a GE in spring 2020 rather than autumn 2019.
Haringey 46.5 % .
That’s up around 10% from 2014.
Voted 70% Remain in 2016 .
> @TGOHF said:
>
> Gaffe prone nutty Nat MSP makes daily faux pas with homophobic tweet
>
> https://twitter.com/glasgowcathcart/status/1132328403078733824
> That isn't a gaffe - that is hate speech. And I have reported it as such
>
> You thick moronic cretin, get a life snowflake.
When you call a gay politician a fag, it is very clear what the intent it behind the comment. And it is very clearly homophobic.
The only cretin is you - throwing abuse shows that you really don't have an argument. But we are all used to this from you by now.
> Deal vs no deal referendum which puts real pressure on the Tory remainers/anti no dealers, it is far less clear they would block this.
I guess the problem is that they and the opposition would amend it to add a Remain option.
Also not sure which way the DUP would jump, best guess is they'd be a No, since that's how they like to roll.
The Herdson scenario will never likely happen because in the current circumstances Labour will not attain anywhere near the 291 seats he asserted on 28% of the vote. With the SNP solid in Scotland, Wales increasingly leaning toward Brexit and the Libdems on the rise in remain areas, the BXP on the rise in leave areas and Change UK and the Greens out in force for nuisance value exactly where would Corbyn find an additional 40-50 gains from?
I suspect he could end up largest party with something like 230 seats forcing him to contemplate a rainbow coalition of Libdems, SNP and god knows who else.
Farage may have been the master of herding cats but Corbyn has struggled to herd his own party for most of his leadership. The idea that he could herd the assorted creatures of the night that he would need to make him PM in such a scenario is beyond risible. His coalition would make the Cameron Clegg Coalition seem positively productive and friendly.
Not only that but when Scotland vote for independence (the SNP would inevitably make another referendum with positive conditions a redline for their co-operation) then his rainbow coalition would inevitably collapse and his party would be the party that broke the Union.
Similarly, whilst the BXP could make significant inroads into areas of the Tory support I would never expect them to overtake them in the Westminster stakes in the short term. Whatever happened the Tories would return well over 100 MPs and as such the Herdson scenario is the stuff of nightmares but nothing more
> > @TheScreamingEagles said:
>
> > The people who claim Britain had no influence in the EU are just repeating decades of tabloid press myth.
>
> >
>
> > They never adduce any evidence.
>
> >
>
> > Go on then , give us details of the influence we have ever wielded, I dare you.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The creation of the single market and the expansion into Eastern Europe were policies championed by the UK to name but two where our influence was key.
>
>
>
> The way Thatcherite free marketeers have walked away from the single market is one of the mysteries of modern political history.
>
> So the last examples you can give of us getting what we want are 33 and 27 years ago?
>
> If the EU was still the EC pre Maastricht but expanded to the east we’d be a delighted member
>
> In the last quarter century the situation developed, not necessarily to our advantage
So many here are expecting that benefits of being in the EU are seen as victories like winning the World Cup. Being on the inside for negotiations is not about absolute wins. The aim is to continually influence the decision process so that it is good for the UK and good for all member states.
If you want two areas where the UK has massively benefitted from being within the EEC/EU one is cross border trading for small companies and another is the strength of UK universities in international teaching and research.
> > @malcolmg said:
>
> > @TGOHF said:
>
> >
>
> > Gaffe prone nutty Nat MSP makes daily faux pas with homophobic tweet
>
> >
>
> > https://twitter.com/glasgowcathcart/status/1132328403078733824
>
>
>
> > That isn't a gaffe - that is hate speech. And I have reported it as such
>
> >
>
> > You thick moronic cretin, get a life snowflake.
>
>
>
> When you call a gay politician a fag, it is very clear what the intent it behind the comment. And it is very clearly homophobic.
>
>
>
> The only cretin is you - throwing abuse shows that you really don't have an argument. But we are all used to this from you by now.
>
> LOL, obvious pretend outrage, any fool knows what he meant and for sure every Tory should be well aware of the meaning of fag. We do not live in the USA. Pretendy outrage from the loser party. Have a look at your pathetic party of cretinous losers instead of imaginary outrage.
More abuse. I have never belonged to any party - so I don't have a party.
Given that you are seeking to defend homophobia - and doing so by being abusive towards a gay member of this site - I think it is very clear that you are just as much a bigot as the MSP in question.
Fag is a term of abuse when deployed like that. It is unacceptable. End of.
Pity then that after 40 years of membership the remain side had nothing positive to offer the British public as evidence of their influence in Brussels during the referendum campaign but instead resorted to flagrant scaremongering in a desperate attempt to scare the nation into staying in.
The simple reality is that after 40 years the EU's supporters provided nothing to make the British people admire the EU (oh except the 'Peace in Europe' lie)! Not greater prosperity, not greater productivity, not better services, not better security (with open borders some chance!), not better co-operation on anything significant (the illegal migrant tragedy demonstrated that abject failure).
NOTHING
PS And thank god we kept our own currency else we'd have ended up like Greece!
> @OblitusSumMe
>
> Yep I love the way the UK influences the EU. After all Cameron had a great impact in stopping Junker becoming President didn't he? What was the vote 26-2 and the Hungarians only voted with us out of protest over another issue.
>
> I think it sums it up nicely don't you?
Mate... We literally just had an election in which we get to send MEPs to the European Parliament.
> > @Richard_Tyndall said:
> > We were members for 40 years and failed to make any real impact in that time. The idea of 'changing the EU from the inside' is as bankrupt as a 'pain free No Deal'.
>
> You might not agree with the way British influence was used but the way in which the Single Market happened was British and prioritising eastern enlargement was British. There are sure to be many other examples.
As I already said that was almost 30 years ago. And it failed in its main intention which was to prevent deepening of the EU.
Whoopie do. The UK will send likely 7 perhaps 8 groups with differing goals and objectives all to different largely non descript EU Parliament groupings and none of whom will have a say in the likely dominant EPP grouping (do you know which British Party is affiliated with them?). All will sit in opposition and most will sit in groups with less influence than the Libdems in Westminster.
Not only that but none of us have a clue beyond whether they favour leave or remain what EU agenda or not as each party is trying to achieve when they get there because the parties deem not to fight the Euro election on European issues and generally never have done (I assume because most of it would likely alarm voters).
Slice it whichever way you like 'matey', the influence the UK has on the EU and a participating democratic member is risible.
> A bit more turnout news from London .
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>
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> Haringey 46.5 % .
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>
>
> That’s up around 10% from 2014.
>
>
>
> Voted 70% Remain in 2016 .
>
> Now that looks like it could be significant. But there aren't too many places like Haringay.
True . We still have quite a few London boroughs to report yet . Not sure when we’ll get these though .
The Lib Dems seem to be very encouraged by that Haringey turnout .
> NEW THREAD
Not that I can see?
And yes, there's a ChUK MEP in the centre-right EPP, as I recall. Whether he'll still be there tonight, who knows?